I need to mention one extremely big advantage of gaming that gets overlooked all the time - you learn English language. For all of us outside of US and UK, games are a fun way to learn (or complement learning) English during mandatory education period (and even after that).
Even as an american I learned a lot of my early language skills for videogames. I played a lot of RPGs, which included reading text that includes a lot of words most grade-schoolers would find difficult.
@Al V As an EFL teacher, grammar is one of the less important aspects of a language if your goal is communication. I don't think it should discourage learners at all
3 things i know of, first was learning english, big. Second is hardcore gamers have an easier time going in and out of meditative states, there was a study about this. Third, its gonna keep our brains active going into old age.
If you only play videogames and well... *not have a job, eat any food, or only sleep when you pass out* ...then videogames become an issue, just like anything addicting.
@@jadeXY its a good argument for anything. heroin obviously has a huge stigma but, if someone were actually able to just do it a couple times per month on the weekends. it wouldn't be a bad thing. its not horrible in and of itself. its being addicted to it that leads to the bad shit. it wouldn't be anymore unhealthy then drinking once a month. so yeah. very few things are bad of themselves. its the addiction that is the bad part of these things, gaming or drugs.
@@semimad100 That's some serious mental gymnastics. Heroin is extremely harmful and seriously fucks you up. This is one of the worst hard drugs in terms of damage to yourself and others and you think it's not that bad in moderation? One time heroin use is already too many.
I've been consumed by video games before, and It was because I needed to escape a bad home life. It wasn't the game it was my situation... But. Eventually there are opportunities to escape that bad situation and if your head is to far into a game and you miss it, now you're stuck in a bad situation because the video game blinded you and kept you docile, now you need to escape even more. It can snowball on you. It's important to wake up and do better things with your time and enjoy the game after you accomplish something. Maybe that something is just cleaning your desk and room. Maybe it's taking a shower and getting on a normal sleep schedule. Whatever helps you get out of the hole you're in and made you want to escape for 12 hours a day in the first place.
haha not gonna lie....instantly thought about you when the witch hunt started and just like yourself and Joe....imo theres some definite truths to what he said and personally didnt take it in a negative light with myself being an avid gamer since the 80s.
@@Ismail-db1vj okay so let me say a good chunk and the statement still stands. Anyone out there saying Joe is wrong on this one are in denial like alcoholics who think drinking can never be a problem.
@@RAAZR- I don't think that most gamers/feminists are actually sensetive like that, but most gamers/feminists on Twitter or Reddit might be. Anyways I also think that it's understandeble for people to have mistaken Joe, because he didn't make his point that clear.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying in this video, however I'm going to play devil's advocate regarding the example Joe gives about jujutsu (which you expand upon). It is JUST as likely that you mess around in jujutsu for 3 years and are still no where near "professional" level as it is for you to mess around in LoL for 3 years and also not be at a "professional" level. The example tries to conflate two VERY different mindsets. Video games are a HOBBY just like any SPORT (jujutsu, soccer, football, etc) is to most people. I casually play soccer pickup games down at the park and I played club soccer for years before that. I wouldn't DREAM of considering myself a pro or even a mentor of the sport. That's not how I spent those years playing soccer. The same can be applied to videogames. The problem that Joe has with videogames, as you said, is the potential for addiction. If you are addicted to doing ANYTHING casually (i.e. not striving to compete at the highest level) it is BAD. Videogames are not unique in this regard.
I think Joe made a perfectly true and valid point but gave a horrible example. he should have said something that people associate directly with a job like programming. he just used bjj as an example because thats what he is passionate about and knows all the ways to make money off of. all his points about gaming were spot on though
Sport is still a much better use of your time than LoL will ever be, even if you’re not going to be a professional athlete. Learning martial arts or playing lots of sports leads to increased physical fitness and discipline and confidence. I don’t see how League can provide anything beneficial besides a lot of suffering. It’s totally fine if you enjoy league, I love playing smash personally. We both have to accept that playing these games aren’t the best use of our time and that’s ok.
mate if you want a book that's much more practical I'd recommend the one I'm currently reading called "set for life" by scott trench. It gives you a good fundamental mindset on how to escape working a 9 to 5 job by focusing on lowering expenses and raising your income over time. I'm currently studying programming and a few months back I was entirely lost without any direction on where to go. Now I know that I can become a software developer, get a house that I rent out, and essentially live for free while being able to save most of the money that I make because of the tips and tricks in that book. Definitely recommend it. He is also on a lot of podcasts like the bigger pockets podcast which gives an overview of the book if you'd like that before committing to read it (link below) ruclips.net/video/asWvC0mhGf8/видео.html
While we're at it, here's my entire reading list if you want to research some of the books. Crush it Ben Franklin Autobiography Art of seduction by Robert Greene Jab Jab Jab right hook Think & grow rich Outwitting the devil Crushing it Antidote to Chaos by Jordan B. Peterson The way of the superior man by Ticker tailor soldier spy Sex at dawn Benjamin franklin’s how to get a mistress How to stop worrying & start living Master key system Charles haanel A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy Book by William Braxton Irvine he Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale Whale Done Parenting by Ken Blanchard The Compound effect by Darren Hardy The magic of thinking big by David Schwartz Secrets of the millionaire mind by T Harv Eker Dotcom Secrets by Russell Brunson Think and Grow Rich The Success Principles How to Win Friends and Influence People Positive dog by Jon Gordon Rich Dad Poor Dad Winning with people by John Maxwell The winning attitude by John Maxwell Be a people person by John Maxwell Mind Gym Relentless How to raise a Gentleman Straight-Line Leadership: Tools for Living with Velocity and Power in Turbulent Times Blue ocean Strategy
How many people learn Jujitsu and make a living out of it or go into the ufc I feel like they are very much equal because there are many different lanes to get into for each to make a living so I don’t think either are a waste of time at all I feel like everything is worth a try and everything falls in that category, everyone isn’t gonna be successful with a business, the career you go to school for, acting, modeling, video editing, etc. I mean I can go on all day a lot of things are unlikely and gaming isn’t any different by any means
In my opinion, you're missing the point. I don't think the main point is necessarily whether or not you make a living off of it, but rather the life skills that you might gain from doing an activity. If you watch around 3:30 in the video, Devin goes through a comparison of martial arts and video games which explains things better than I can. That being said, your point stands and I don't necessarily have an issue with it - I just feel that it is more of an aside in this particular discussion.
Seenis bro I missed no point, I understood that he said that that there is a skill gained from that, that could do more for you in life and I’m saying that they are equal for different reasons shall I give a breakdown we have to speak the whole context and my whole point is that they are equal
@@tredakatko u did miss the point. Also i do feel like opening up a school would b easier to make money, altho trying to make it at ufc would be like trying to become famous on twitch/youtube. The point is that after 3 years you have a real world skill, even if you dont use it to make a living you still know/have this tangible skill. You could open up a school, become a police officer/security guard because maybe you can subdue people without harming them. After 3 years of gaming you dont necessarily have a real world skill that you could apply. And even inside gaming, you are very good at one particular game but that doesnt necessarily mean that u are good at all games on an equal level either. Altho obv some videogame skills transfer inside the same genres etc
Ulirb shall I give a breakdown because you’re being biased my friend I’m not missing the point at all you have to go into the details of what is considered real life skill because just how you named several things that you could do with that training I can name several thing that’s that I can do with gaming, he’s just saying that because he doesn’t everything that you can do with gaming and how it can sharpen you over all just because it’s a virtual thing you tried to consider it to not be a real life skill so just let me know if you want a full break down
Speaking as a career martial artist of 30+ years, Joe's comparison to martial arts is laughable. The vast majority of people are not going to be "elite" after only 3 years of training. And that's what I take issue with. Joe Rogan is a martial artist, and a famous one. So people hear him say this and take it to heart. The truth is it's not gonna happen in 3 years. Maybe in 10, but not in 3.
I think video games are kind of like a workout for your brain. Sure some games take the piss in challenging you or you wouldn't want to spend all day in the gym BUT I think games can be really good in keeping your mind young by making it work. I think they can be super good for personal development in many ways the problem is when you become addicted to getting better at games and never using those skills for anything real.
Games always lower my productivity, I've always been productive but when I let go of video games my already high productivity went though the roof. I love your content Devin, i had to step away from twitch/gaming content so I could get my life to a new level. Now that I've done that I'm glad to be back watching, and i have negative temptation to play any video games except maybe 10 mins of Pokemon blue once a month. I started watching you when I saw you playing D&D. I believe D&D has a lot of positive potential that I won't speak about here yet. Hope to see more D&D and self development content.
brand new to your content (subbed, notification'ed up)- I really appreciate your thoughtful approach to analysis. You listen, think and do research before coming to conclusions. What novel ideas!
You have to compare this to all other professions too. Let’s take the NFL. How many play little league and high school ball? Compared to how many make a living. It’s a fraction of a percent. Monetary value isn’t the only way to VALUE something.
But ur getting out of the house, getting excercise, working with a team for a common goal and socializing in person. Playing sports is way better for u and u get much more out of it than grinding a video game lol.
@@TheChosen1inc Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, what you get out of something isn't the same as everyone else's. Some pro gamers make millions from competition, some serious athletes got nowhere it's a gamble on both ends and to think otherwise is simply arrogant 👑
@@aurorab4553 I think the point being discussed is about those that ONLY play video games and it is the only thing they focus on. Not those that enjoy both.
@@DArtmanreignz i think the point is more of. with football. you're only there for practice and games. you cant spend 12 hours a day "wasting your life" playing it. and there are good things that will happen playing it even if you could like socializing and getting a work out. you cant waste you life playing football because you can only "play" it and practice for it for so much of the day. with videogames there's no limit and very few benefits for very few people. if you are playing to unwind after work that's 100% ok. if you are living at your parents with no job and playing 8 to 13 hours a day, thats just an addiction and avoiding responsibilities of life at that point. I wont ever say someone shouldn't go for it if they are trying to go pro BUT, you need a plan if you are. like. if someone wanted to be a LoL pro and asked me for advice id tell them to grind out a year. if they are not at least D1 at the end of that year, quit, you are not going to make it. its the same for streaming or anything else. it's fine to have a dream but, with such a competitive market. you need a backup plan and solid point when you know "ok i didn't make it to where i needed to be at a minimum to know this might work, time to quit"
Awesome video! I thought it was going one direction but it went another. My thoughts are this is more about addiction and having a schedule to maintain a healthy life. Because with the example used. What the heck am I gonna do with jiu jitsu? Lol it's the same concept. Anything you spend all your time in. Will have unhealthy results. Balance is the key.
Is anyone really shocked that media ignored the context behind Joe's arguement and blew it out of proportion? This is why I dont go to online media. Everything is click bait
Thank you so much for this point of view. I could not believe how many huge names in the industry just overlooked some of these facts. Not only that, but there are so many people that will waste years playing video games without an intentions of doing anything with that.
I still somewhat follow a small streamer (zamasdm) and he built his community off of digimon masters online, and once he quit it was super weird seeing his veiwercount go massive. But this was because he started streaming Roblox and for a while he always had 20-80 viewers and once he eventually switched to LoL he usually has 5-15 viewers which are usually those from the dmo days.
Ya unfortunately. A lot of gamers on Twitter got mad at him. Which i was hella confused at first. God i hate the gaming community sometimes because we honestly get offended so easily over trivial things. Like whenever someone outside of gaming makes comments about it we try to put so much importance onto it, and its like... who cares
Who even cares what Joe Rogan says, he's a complete moron. He's the same guy who said "masks are for idiots". People still listening to Joe Rogan have to have a severe mental handicap.
@@lemonlime9073 you're using success as a metric for credibility and knowledge? I guess you think Tekashi 6ix9ine is really smart too then. Let's make articles and videos whenever that guy mentions anything too 🤪
There are so many different games out there and so many different ways to play that making broad statements and generalisations based on own experiences will miss most of reality and feel alien to those with different experiences. There are many factors that have to be present for you playing a game to cause harm. From my life it has definitly been a net good. I've learned a ton of skills that have real world application, the first of which is great computer knowledge. I don't think people realize how valuable that is if you get an officejob outside of IT, where everyone has good computer knowledge. Look for an office job in the health sector for example and you will find that your skills with computers can be extremely valuable in making the work place more efficient and taking advantage of simple cloud-based solutions. You can probably even develop apps for the workplace through Microsoft power apps or logic flows to automate timeconsuming tasks with Microsoft flow/power automate. People take 100-300$/hr to do that for businesses and it is not something you need a specialist for. For me atleast it has been eye opening how bad the average person outside of IT is at IT. Also cooperative and leadership skills from social games like mmos can be valuable as well, understand trade and bartering as well. Ofcourse get a degree too. Just to get hired. And as someone else mentioned here, learning english and interacting with other cultures online can be benefitial.
The same applies for sports, theater, dancing, etc. The chances of being successful are low, but are still there and big enough for people to want to try.
What Joe is talking about is an issue for a lot if hobbies the problem is he singled out video games and not hobbies in general his talk of comedy is a contradiction of him saying what he did about video games, how many starving artist are there where did the stereotype of the "actor" moving to Hollywood to become an actor that end up in a dead end job come from, spending an obsessive amount of time on anything isnt healthy and there are many many just as equally time waste activities as videogames, the reason this blew up is because he said there is no path to making money like their is ju jitsu and that is just factually incorrect no matter if the chance is lower or not both can be a complete waste of time if you don't do anything to make it not and honestly the ju jitsu industry isnt as big as he thinks just because him and his buddies are rocking around in Mercedes my instructor can barely cover his costs
i do sort of agree with him that gaming leads no where iv been gaming all my life with nothing to show for it apart from a high end pc but a couple months ago i started hiking and for the first time in my life i was able to set myself life goals to achieve, i feel like iv achieved more the last 2 months iv been long distance hiking than i ever achieved playing on my pc, iv got a end goal im working towards and since iv started hiking iv been much happier and im enjoying games more when i sit down to play now because im not spending every second of my spare time in front of my pc
How well does a skill like jiu jitsu translate to in terms of earnings? It's not like people are going out every day to look for people to fight. Most people who go and train in jiu jitsu do it to make friends, exercise, and interact with other people. Isn't that example almost exactly the same as video games? It's also extremely hard to get to a high enough level to teach and make money from it, much less compete, I would say the amount of people earning from it are the same as any gamer who turned to streaming. That goes for many skills.
It's funny that Joe makes a comparison to Jiu Jitsu, which is another area where it's extremely unlikely that you're going to become a pro or teach it yourself. This would have been better compared with coding, or learning a shop skill like metal/wood work
I think the example just fails on an abstract level. Even if you replaced it with "coding": If you casually mess around in a bunch of different languages/programs but never dive deep and retain anything, you fall into the same problems that Joe is claiming are unique to video games. And believe me, it's entirely possible to "learn" coding for a year or two and not get much out of it... Personal experience. The problem here is that there IS a flaw to Joe's and Devin's argument. Does this mean that everything they say is wrong? No. Is video game addiction real and a big problem? Absolutely. However it's an ADDICTION problem more than a VIDEO GAME problem.
I think the analogy still holds because 1: You will be physically healthier and possibly increase your lifespan 2: Parents with money actually want to higher teachers for this skill. While this is a thing for video games it's not as lucrative. So there are more teaching opportunities then you give it credit for
@@imuncomfbecuzihavsubsandno4371 Have you ever looked into coaching for video games? It's not as lucrative. Plenty of people will offer to do it for free, or for 15-20 bucks. Of course high end coachs can make good money. But a decent martial artist coach can make the same money teaching some 8 year old whos parents make them do it.
4:51 - this also applies to ju jitsu >> chances of You succeeding and creating a school/dojo and teaching (successfully) people are astronomically low (same as games). Joe would need to use a different example - at the moment this argument does not stick. *He has not experienced the gaming industry to make an informed comment about it (i bit surprised You have agreed with him, Devin).
They didnt say anything about opening up a school or something. Albeit making money by opening a school would be easier than trying to make money/become famous on twitch/youtube. They are saying that after 3 years of a martial art you have a real world skill that you can use. After 3 years of video game ok cool your plat in LoL... now what? Your pretty good at a singular game and you can play alot of other games at maybe an average level (because being good at one doesnt necessarily mean you'll be good at others) but what real world skill does this offer you. Joe even says himself that quake in particular is very addicting for him so he has to force himself to not just lose his life in playing it. Like they both said gaming is fun and is good for a lot of people. But for some people (like for example alchohol) can be very addicting and ruin your life. Rogan just worded it weirdly is all
@@NaruBrilu "They didnt say anything about opening up a school or something" this is what "make it" means for most people in martial arts >> how many people get to run UFC? "They are saying that after 3 years of martial art you have a real-world skill that you can use" I heard this argument already - it's not informed by someone who worked in the gaming industry >>, as a result, Rogans opinion is irrelevant. There is more money made by gamer vs "someone who was trying to learn a martial art for 3 years" overall...
@@JHopkins Read my reply above >> Rogan is a sample pool of one. He just displayed how little he knows about the gaming industry. As for Devin >> he agreed just to have a prolonged bit to put on RUclips that goes against any other "reaction" out there (the reason he didn't use any statistics to back up this point).
@@NocturnalRecords7 for sure more money if you are in that top .01% on youtube/twitch or pro. Rogan just worded this very weirdly. Its much easier to make money from doing ju jitsu then gaming after doing it for so long etc
i make a full time living selling and refurbishing collectibles/vintage clothing/video games online and most of the economy aspect of it I learned from perfecting the world of warcraft auction house and diablo 3 auction house.
I agree with the fact that playing videogames isn't going to get you a job or any vallueble life skills. However I felt like Joe could have made his point better, because to me it sounded at first like he was saying how playing videogames for entertainment is a waste of time.
Yes! This! All of this! I believe not enough people approach things with a realistic mentality, including myself. Reality at time sucks but the end result is sooooo worth it! For no matter what it is though. Anything that we want and truly believe we can achieve those goals, at the end no matter what anyone else says you have to push past that and do what you have to do to get there. Once you do, it’s going to be so worth it. I’ve only recently got a taste of it and that accomplishment alone is fantastic! Devin keep up the great work!
Yeah your 100% right before I can even consider content creation I need to straighten out my priorities and get ahold of the demon before I gets even more loose than it is.
i agree you need to learn other on line things that will translate into value or to use the viewers to show your other talents you can just be a gamer you have to be a gamer and have other skills to package in
Honestly, Joe hit the nail right on the head. I've watched old league pros who are only active still because one of two reasons. They've adapted their content, or are just riding out the wave they had when they had the popularity and rely on stupid gimmicks and stuff to keep attention on them. People think this is a hand out, but like what you and Joe said and what I've seen with pro gamers, people ride the wave someone else is making, but complain when they get off it or it dies and their channel stops.
Yes but hes being hypocritical, his podcast dont provide value to us either, it doesnt get a job and watching him for 3 years doesnt do anything more then video games. Oh wait....then nobody watches Joe Rogan and his job would be over..
I have about 20 yrs in the martial arts and never had a fight and never taught in a dojo, so is that a waste of time. How many people currently think they can be a UFC fighter so they train hard in MMA and how many of them make it? All hobbies are a waste of time with that mentality. Also years of martial arts gives you injuries all over your body.
Dude yes! Finally someone that takes a look at this in an objective way. I personally used to grind video games. I developed socially anxiety and got fat. Ended up having to lose 50lbs and in doing so I saw profound psychological benefits that video games never gave me. I leveled up in life. And leveling up in life is a lot more satisfying than leveling up in a game. At least to me and I feel like for most people.
I'll be honest idk how we define a waste of time. cause I could say getting any university degree that won't net you like 50k or 100k income would be a waste of time (like a history degree).
Joe was addicted to playing Quake for a while so I know he isn't ignorant of the downsides of gaming or even the gaming industry as it stands now. But it still doesn't add up? You don't do Jujitsu against other people online in your free time like with games, you make a concentrated effort to learn under a coach who's job is to teach you this skill with a focus on getting better at this skill (Juijitsu). Nobody is doing any martial arts "for fun" or because all their friends are doing it and they want to hang out with them in the same setting like in a video game. If you spent the same amount of time training in a competitive video game with a former professional player (like you would learning martial arts from a certified instructor or former competitor) you'd be much better than top 10% plat in league - I'd argue 3 years playing with a coach or player on a real pro team would probably make you totally capable of playing that game on a competitive level against other pros. I've been playing league on and off for almost 5 years, I'd get absolutely crushed by someone who's been playing for less than a year *if* that person was trained by a coach or played with the dedicated purpose of getting to the pinnacle of that games ability. But imo even *that* doesn't matter. My biggest issue is with Joe tying 3 years of Jujitsu to winning competitions, starting a small business teaching Jujitsu and owning a Mercedes. Is Jujitsu that easy? 3 years of training leads to foreign cars and owning your own business? Being the top in the sport doesn't require anything other than 3 years of weekly classes? ofc he isn't saying that but I'd argue if you took 100 people and trained with professionals from each field at the end of that 3 years you'd have way more professional streamers and gamers than you ever would competitively viable martial artists. Not to mention I can't be a black belt from my bedroom every night after work while decompressing and playing with my friends. I can get to diamond in league though. (not me personally but you get the point). To everyone saying "but even if you don't go pro in martial arts you'd still be fit" yeah sure go for it. If this conversation becomes "is exercise healthier than video games" we all know the answer but at the end of the day I know which one I'm picking. EDIT: I also don't think Joe correcting his guest on the probability of becoming a pro gamer is him admitting the feasibility of gaming as a career. 1 in a billion with
Yeah joe exagerated. Most people dont even know what they are doing after 3 years of bjj. Getting to black or blown takes way way more. time for the vast majority of people. Also bjj most world class pros get paid scraps. And you would be suprise how many people do bjj and are still unhealthy
I was surprised at how many people were upset at what he said. I dunno what's up with people on this community getting so defensive the moment someone says anything slightly negative (which in this case it isn't even negative) about gaming.
It just depends on what someone wants out of life. If you can check off the 3 "Taking care of yourself" boxes of Physical, Mental, and Financial health then personally I don't care how you choose to spend your time or how much of it as long as it's not hurting anybody. The problem is there is undoubtedly a large portion of gamer's that check none of those boxes and just hide from the world by gaming all of the time. So Joe's not entirely wrong here by any means, he probably should have just clarified who he was targeting a little more.
I agree with that lots of people waste their time that don't do anything but video game. But honestly can we really just specify that towards gaming? the same situation is there in lots of category's. i think if you really want to make money of something you like doing you can. But as you said if you just put up your stream in OBS and want to make a living of that, That aint gonna make the cut. I think if you are a person who really wants to make money of something if you have the drive and motivation you can make it work one way or another. I personally would love to make money of streaming but i have not even started streaming and am hesitant to even start because of not wanting to fall into a pitfall.
Nash you caught me. I wasn't subscribed. This has changed. I have hit the bell notification. I have hit the like button. I am now depressed and very sorry :(. gg and great content!
What Joe Rogan doesn't understand is that the average gamer is about 30 years old. Kids getting addicted is a problem, but most gamers already put in their 12-16 years of personal development, and an extra 3 years isn't going to make much of a difference at that point. Also another misconception is that gaming is a "skill" that can be compared to other "skills" like learning Martial Arts, music, or crafts. However the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics correctly labels gaming as recreation, like reading books, or watching television. In that regard, playing something like League of Legends for 3 years (on your spare time) will not only provide more cognitive simulation versus watching TV, but those players may also develop their own support network, which can evolve into life long friendships that can extend well beyond the lifespan of the game.
the best thing that can happen to gaming is it can become like any other sport. Start young with clubs/teams wether it be sanctioned by the school (elementary) or a league outside. Have high school teams and then the best from high school go on to college and if all works out they become a top streamer along the way or make the cdl or owl or whatever the game may be.
It should be clear that it is a hobby that has a use and be understood to bring no value on its own. I love to play my games of choice but I try to do two things. 1. I have my work, workout and meditation done before I play. And 2. I try to use them. Some of them as Stress reliever to stop thinking about stuff I can not change. Others as training to highten my tolerance of frustration. Learning to stay calm and communicate well even if I am pissed.... And so on... Through my short eve phase I learned to love Excel. So yeah they can have great value but not out of them self.. they were not designed to. They were designed to be fun and often to be a money sink....
Honestly Devin, I'm in the same boat as you. Good job, girlfriend, friends etc, the reality is that my playing video games for hours after work IS a waste of time. As Joe says, you don't have anything at the end of it. I could argue that it's good for my brain, and "couldn't I argue doing other stuff is a waste of time vs studying skills etc", and yes I could. We are voluntarily wasting our time, and I think that is ok only IF you are still dedicating free time to developing yourself.
I get that he's talking from a personal standpoint but it's important to remember that not only can pretty much anything become an addiction, but that it's not always an intrinsic property of the item or activity that makes it cause that addiction; it can just as easily be the psychology/personality of the addict that does so
@@tgo007 That second part also applies to gaming even moreso, since you can meet more people from around the world. Also, there's probably a higher number of gamers that are interested in areas of the market that have expected growth.
totally agree. this year I stop playing video games so I can focus on getting better at painting and drawing to in the future work on the game industry
Yeah I definitely agree with almost everything though I think there are a ton of "real life" activities that you don't gain any helpful skills from either. Many might keep you more healthy than playing video games or let you show off to your friends but as long as you only do those for fun the gained skills often times don't really help you in society.
But Joe didn't say you can only get life/career benefit from being a game/streamer 'if' you put the work into it as with anything. He made a blanket statement that you totally can get revenue generating benefit from three years of JuJitsu but not from gaming. I would like to suggest that if you survey ten thousand JuJitsu practitioners, not teachers, just random people who practice it, and then thousand people who game and stream, you would not see much of a difference in terms of them going on with that skill to generate income. It seems to me that the real discussion is about dedication as just about any pastime can be turned into a career with enough time and effort and I thin that's what Devin was steering this conversation towards. I have a bit of experience with both as I attended a hard core, among the mountains type martial arts school in Korea for eight months and also was an avid gamer and made cable shows about PS1 era console, PC and Arcade games in the mid 90's. lol, I didn't make any money from the martial arts and neither did any of the hundreds of students I studied with, but I made a bit of a supplemental income from the games TV production stuff. And, to Devin's point, I used to sleep on the editing room floor for a few hours a night only so it took dedication.
Man that comment about video games being a demon you have to keep on a leash, even down to the POE example, was too real. Even being married and having some decent success professionally I constantly have to keep it on a leash.
They destroyed my relationship and career by affecting my grades. I placed too much of a priority on some games and time just gets away from you. It wasn’t till later that I disciplined myself and that I started to finally control that part of my life. That’s my own story which is really tame. There’s people who have the same issue coupled with gambling addictions and it compounded into higher stakes. People losing their whole family and home because of loot boxes and weapon skins. It’s insane.
I'm a gamer myself and a portion of them are toxic going no where. I even been there myself. Sucks even more when it's somebody close to you, but either way we should respect everyone's way of living. Do what you love I guess, just no point of being toxic.
Unfortunately even being a professional player doesn't cut it, let's take for example f0rest which is a CSGO player and has a lot of time in the professional gaming scene, according to Liquidmedia he made $716,288 on a 13 years career and keep in mind that for many years his ROI was a fat 0. If you split the amount he earned $716,288 (this is before taxes) to 17, the numbers of years since he is active you get $42,134 a year and then split to 12, numbers of months you get $3,511 a month. A few years ago f0rest said in a interview that he practicing around 8-10 hours a day to keep being at the top level, and if Devin sees this he can correct me, if the team you're playing for has a contract with let's say Twitch then the players are required to stream a number of hours a week, plus in the same interview f0rest said that before every tournament his team practices intensly for about 1-2 months so you can add that to. To put it into prospective a normal fastfood employee get's about $13 an hour in US so that gets you to ~$2300 per month and works in a job that doesn't need any prior experience, is not mentality under pressure all the time to perform, just goes to work for 8 hours and gets paid, that's it. A fastfood manager gets about $19 which takes you to $3,382 almost the amount that f0rest would make, it takes you about 1-2 years to be a fastfood manager, no stress. The funny part is that the fastfood manager has the possibility to get more experience and get a better paying job, when in this case f0rest if would it be to leave the pro scene and wouldn't want to stream, or have anything to do with gaming because after 13 years is burned out he wouldn't have no skills in the real world to show for, if he would go to a interview and any place woould ask him what have you done with your life, because now his 30 years old, he would say, yeah in the last 13 years old I played video games, any company hires based on experience, if you don't have it you go to a lower/entry paid bracket. Overall, yes, being a "gamer" or even a professional gamer for that matter is a waste of time, if you do it for 2-3 hours a day just to relax, that's fine, but if you want to do it for a long time, you're better of learning some skills that can brind value to other people and get paid for. So kids, choose wisely, don't waste your time, especially in your 20s and early 30s doing nothing, learn some skills and bring value to the table.
I disagree with the "Play league of legends for 3 years, get platinum, and you have learned nothing useful at the end of it". I personally have learned a lot about problem solving, team work, persistence, and focus to name a few from having played league for several years that I apply at least to some extent almost on a day-to-day basis personally and professionally. It depends on how you approach playing. If you're a zombie queuer doing the same thing every game and flaming and shoving blame off yourself, then yeah, you didn't learn much after 3 years.
I agree that lootbox multiplayer games are a waste of time, but I believe that co-op games / single player games can be a good source of stress relief. Playing something like Undertale for the first time is at least teaching you something in terms of storytelling rather than hopping into the millionth queue of League just to rage.
The Problem is and was that people these days can't think "right" ... I'm not so good with words here, because its hard to explain. They don't understand what a person is REALLY trying to say. Instead they only hear what they want to hear or they simply DON'T have the intelligence to understand it. Devin is explaining it for the majority but it would be great if this wouldn't be needed in the first place.
The amount of detached, head-in-the sand takes from gamers and people in the industry was obscene this time. Video game addiction is a massive issue and the idea of “building a career in gaming” as an excuse for sitting on your ass playing games sixteen hours a day is one of the most intoxicating reasons to be addicted to anything. I know, I’ve been there. And gaming is so effortless as a pass time that the work required to become a professional in the industry is lost on most gamers.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. Becoming a streamer has nothing to do with skills. It's about entertainment and how you proceed yourself on stream. It's all about eye candy and it's been this way for a long time in any profession. Also, if you are a people person that can be enjoyed just to watch and not for your gaming skill, it's a win win situation. You need to know how to engage with viewers. Income wise, it's not that hard to be a streamer and make an income. You can have enough people viewing you to pay bills. The plus side, you are making money playing games. Like a 9 to 5 job.
This doesn't make any sense. If I sat down to play video games and all of a sudden I can't, I'm just gonna watch TV or play on my phone....... We are talking about regret, not waste per se. ONLY if you regretted the time that you spent can it possibly be a "waste", since it was yours to begin with. Most people aren't clear about that regret.
I need to mention one extremely big advantage of gaming that gets overlooked all the time - you learn English language. For all of us outside of US and UK, games are a fun way to learn (or complement learning) English during mandatory education period (and even after that).
i can relate to that
i credit my english to tv, movies and more so video games.
Even as an american I learned a lot of my early language skills for videogames. I played a lot of RPGs, which included reading text that includes a lot of words most grade-schoolers would find difficult.
@Al V As an EFL teacher, grammar is one of the less important aspects of a language if your goal is communication. I don't think it should discourage learners at all
3 things i know of, first was learning english, big. Second is hardcore gamers have an easier time going in and out of meditative states, there was a study about this. Third, its gonna keep our brains active going into old age.
I felt like I was one of the only people who saw Joe's comments this way. Glad to know that I'm not on an island lol
You are, but the island's name is sanity and the population is minute these days. Let's enjoy our stay :)
Word
When I first hered Joe, I didn't understand what he was trying to say. Now I do and I mostly agree with him.
Same
If you only play videogames and well...
*not have a job, eat any food, or only sleep when you pass out*
...then videogames become an issue, just like anything addicting.
Funny how Joe uses that argument when talking about drugs.
you literally described me 😭
This describes me perfectly :D
@@jadeXY its a good argument for anything. heroin obviously has a huge stigma but, if someone were actually able to just do it a couple times per month on the weekends. it wouldn't be a bad thing. its not horrible in and of itself. its being addicted to it that leads to the bad shit. it wouldn't be anymore unhealthy then drinking once a month. so yeah. very few things are bad of themselves. its the addiction that is the bad part of these things, gaming or drugs.
@@semimad100 That's some serious mental gymnastics. Heroin is extremely harmful and seriously fucks you up. This is one of the worst hard drugs in terms of damage to yourself and others and you think it's not that bad in moderation? One time heroin use is already too many.
if you dont think grinding in video games is a waste of time.. uve never played War Thunder with no premium
If you dont think grinding is a waste of time, you've never played warframe
Nah bro try WOT with no premium!
@RARAYAYA RAA idk man, there isn't much fun killing 100s of goblins for 4+ hours a day every day
@RARAYAYA RAA and its dead, for that reason. People use cheats, for that reason. No one actually says its a good game, for that reason
Play WoW, Runescape, Albion, EVE or ESO and tell me that again
I've been consumed by video games before, and It was because I needed to escape a bad home life. It wasn't the game it was my situation... But.
Eventually there are opportunities to escape that bad situation and if your head is to far into a game and you miss it, now you're stuck in a bad situation because the video game blinded you and kept you docile, now you need to escape even more. It can snowball on you.
It's important to wake up and do better things with your time and enjoy the game after you accomplish something. Maybe that something is just cleaning your desk and room. Maybe it's taking a shower and getting on a normal sleep schedule.
Whatever helps you get out of the hole you're in and made you want to escape for 12 hours a day in the first place.
Great video & explaining his ACTUAL reasoning. A lot of people just read the headline & decided their opinion was set from there.👍
Holy shit. This dude grinds. Good work man. Not into Poke'mon stuff, but damn.
Ig thats just what happens when you speak in general terms on your giant platform 🤷♂️
“Fight against the odds” is a great take on life. Well said!
To many streamers have the mindset of 'Don't tell me the odds'
lmao why some of you are trying to misunderstand him , he meant the guys who stay all day playing games not being productive enough in real world
haha not gonna lie....instantly thought about you when the witch hunt started and just like yourself and Joe....imo theres some definite truths to what he said and personally didnt take it in a negative light with myself being an avid gamer since the 80s.
Joe should have made his point a bit clearer in my opinion. The insane outrage though is kinda ridiculous.
Gamers are no different than feminists when they feel attacked
@@RAAZR- That's very generalising though.
@@Ismail-db1vj okay so let me say a good chunk and the statement still stands. Anyone out there saying Joe is wrong on this one are in denial like alcoholics who think drinking can never be a problem.
@@RAAZR- I don't think that most gamers/feminists are actually sensetive like that, but most gamers/feminists on Twitter or Reddit might be. Anyways I also think that it's understandeble for people to have mistaken Joe, because he didn't make his point that clear.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying in this video, however I'm going to play devil's advocate regarding the example Joe gives about jujutsu (which you expand upon). It is JUST as likely that you mess around in jujutsu for 3 years and are still no where near "professional" level as it is for you to mess around in LoL for 3 years and also not be at a "professional" level.
The example tries to conflate two VERY different mindsets. Video games are a HOBBY just like any SPORT (jujutsu, soccer, football, etc) is to most people. I casually play soccer pickup games down at the park and I played club soccer for years before that. I wouldn't DREAM of considering myself a pro or even a mentor of the sport. That's not how I spent those years playing soccer. The same can be applied to videogames.
The problem that Joe has with videogames, as you said, is the potential for addiction. If you are addicted to doing ANYTHING casually (i.e. not striving to compete at the highest level) it is BAD. Videogames are not unique in this regard.
I think Joe made a perfectly true and valid point but gave a horrible example. he should have said something that people associate directly with a job like programming. he just used bjj as an example because thats what he is passionate about and knows all the ways to make money off of. all his points about gaming were spot on though
Sport is still a much better use of your time than LoL will ever be, even if you’re not going to be a professional athlete. Learning martial arts or playing lots of sports leads to increased physical fitness and discipline and confidence. I don’t see how League can provide anything beneficial besides a lot of suffering. It’s totally fine if you enjoy league, I love playing smash personally. We both have to accept that playing these games aren’t the best use of our time and that’s ok.
@@Hemlocker problem solving and teamwork skills from fucking league of legends? Are you 12 years old? Sorry no
@@legendarylitening You need to go out and play some more sports bro. You sound angry and incapable of thinking rationally
Could you recommend any self improvement/development books??
@Airs Rock that was the first book that I ever read on self-help. changed my mind entirely.
Thank you both, I really appreciate this!!
mate if you want a book that's much more practical I'd recommend the one I'm currently reading called "set for life" by scott trench. It gives you a good fundamental mindset on how to escape working a 9 to 5 job by focusing on lowering expenses and raising your income over time. I'm currently studying programming and a few months back I was entirely lost without any direction on where to go. Now I know that I can become a software developer, get a house that I rent out, and essentially live for free while being able to save most of the money that I make because of the tips and tricks in that book. Definitely recommend it. He is also on a lot of podcasts like the bigger pockets podcast which gives an overview of the book if you'd like that before committing to read it (link below)
ruclips.net/video/asWvC0mhGf8/видео.html
The righteous mind
Journey to the west
While we're at it, here's my entire reading list if you want to research some of the books.
Crush it
Ben Franklin Autobiography
Art of seduction by Robert Greene
Jab Jab Jab right hook
Think & grow rich
Outwitting the devil
Crushing it
Antidote to Chaos by Jordan B. Peterson
The way of the superior man by
Ticker tailor soldier spy
Sex at dawn
Benjamin franklin’s how to get a mistress
How to stop worrying & start living
Master key system Charles haanel
A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy
Book by William Braxton Irvine
he Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale
Whale Done Parenting by Ken Blanchard
The Compound effect by Darren Hardy
The magic of thinking big by David Schwartz
Secrets of the millionaire mind by T Harv Eker
Dotcom Secrets by Russell Brunson
Think and Grow Rich
The Success Principles
How to Win Friends and Influence People
Positive dog by Jon Gordon
Rich Dad Poor Dad
Winning with people by John Maxwell
The winning attitude by John Maxwell
Be a people person by John Maxwell
Mind Gym
Relentless
How to raise a Gentleman
Straight-Line Leadership: Tools for Living with Velocity and Power in Turbulent Times
Blue ocean Strategy
How many people learn Jujitsu and make a living out of it or go into the ufc I feel like they are very much equal because there are many different lanes to get into for each to make a living so I don’t think either are a waste of time at all I feel like everything is worth a try and everything falls in that category, everyone isn’t gonna be successful with a business, the career you go to school for, acting, modeling, video editing, etc. I mean I can go on all day a lot of things are unlikely and gaming isn’t any different by any means
In my opinion, you're missing the point. I don't think the main point is necessarily whether or not you make a living off of it, but rather the life skills that you might gain from doing an activity. If you watch around 3:30 in the video, Devin goes through a comparison of martial arts and video games which explains things better than I can. That being said, your point stands and I don't necessarily have an issue with it - I just feel that it is more of an aside in this particular discussion.
Seenis bro I missed no point, I understood that he said that that there is a skill gained from that, that could do more for you in life and I’m saying that they are equal for different reasons shall I give a breakdown we have to speak the whole context and my whole point is that they are equal
@@tredakatko u did miss the point. Also i do feel like opening up a school would b easier to make money, altho trying to make it at ufc would be like trying to become famous on twitch/youtube.
The point is that after 3 years you have a real world skill, even if you dont use it to make a living you still know/have this tangible skill. You could open up a school, become a police officer/security guard because maybe you can subdue people without harming them.
After 3 years of gaming you dont necessarily have a real world skill that you could apply. And even inside gaming, you are very good at one particular game but that doesnt necessarily mean that u are good at all games on an equal level either. Altho obv some videogame skills transfer inside the same genres etc
Ulirb shall I give a breakdown because you’re being biased my friend I’m not missing the point at all you have to go into the details of what is considered real life skill because just how you named several things that you could do with that training I can name several thing that’s that I can do with gaming, he’s just saying that because he doesn’t everything that you can do with gaming and how it can sharpen you over all just because it’s a virtual thing you tried to consider it to not be a real life skill so just let me know if you want a full break down
Speaking as a career martial artist of 30+ years, Joe's comparison to martial arts is laughable. The vast majority of people are not going to be "elite" after only 3 years of training. And that's what I take issue with. Joe Rogan is a martial artist, and a famous one. So people hear him say this and take it to heart. The truth is it's not gonna happen in 3 years. Maybe in 10, but not in 3.
Maybe 3 years of doing nothing else but I doubt anyone's got time/money for that and if you do you wont need those skills anyways in life :>
I would love to see you in his show, I bet it would be a very nice conversation between you two
Which Druid circle are you looking up in your tabs?
I think video games are kind of like a workout for your brain. Sure some games take the piss in challenging you or you wouldn't want to spend all day in the gym BUT I think games can be really good in keeping your mind young by making it work. I think they can be super good for personal development in many ways the problem is when you become addicted to getting better at games and never using those skills for anything real.
Again with the great title and picture. Great editing work
Games always lower my productivity, I've always been productive but when I let go of video games my already high productivity went though the roof. I love your content Devin, i had to step away from twitch/gaming content so I could get my life to a new level. Now that I've done that I'm glad to be back watching, and i have negative temptation to play any video games except maybe 10 mins of Pokemon blue once a month. I started watching you when I saw you playing D&D. I believe D&D has a lot of positive potential that I won't speak about here yet. Hope to see more D&D and self development content.
brand new to your content (subbed, notification'ed up)- I really appreciate your thoughtful approach to analysis. You listen, think and do research before coming to conclusions. What novel ideas!
You have to compare this to all other professions too. Let’s take the NFL. How many play little league and high school ball? Compared to how many make a living. It’s a fraction of a percent. Monetary value isn’t the only way to VALUE something.
But ur getting out of the house, getting excercise, working with a team for a common goal and socializing in person. Playing sports is way better for u and u get much more out of it than grinding a video game lol.
@@TheChosen1inc Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, what you get out of something isn't the same as everyone else's. Some pro gamers make millions from competition, some serious athletes got nowhere it's a gamble on both ends and to think otherwise is simply arrogant 👑
@@TheChosen1inc But you can do both. Its not mutually exclusive.
@@aurorab4553 I think the point being discussed is about those that ONLY play video games and it is the only thing they focus on. Not those that enjoy both.
@@DArtmanreignz i think the point is more of. with football. you're only there for practice and games. you cant spend 12 hours a day "wasting your life" playing it. and there are good things that will happen playing it even if you could like socializing and getting a work out. you cant waste you life playing football because you can only "play" it and practice for it for so much of the day. with videogames there's no limit and very few benefits for very few people. if you are playing to unwind after work that's 100% ok. if you are living at your parents with no job and playing 8 to 13 hours a day, thats just an addiction and avoiding responsibilities of life at that point. I wont ever say someone shouldn't go for it if they are trying to go pro BUT, you need a plan if you are. like. if someone wanted to be a LoL pro and asked me for advice id tell them to grind out a year. if they are not at least D1 at the end of that year, quit, you are not going to make it. its the same for streaming or anything else. it's fine to have a dream but, with such a competitive market. you need a backup plan and solid point when you know "ok i didn't make it to where i needed to be at a minimum to know this might work, time to quit"
Why I subscribe, great analytical videos. Solid takes on topics.
Awesome video! I thought it was going one direction but it went another. My thoughts are this is more about addiction and having a schedule to maintain a healthy life. Because with the example used. What the heck am I gonna do with jiu jitsu? Lol it's the same concept. Anything you spend all your time in. Will have unhealthy results. Balance is the key.
Devin is legit the BIGBRAIN of twitch and gaming 😂 he is the Joe Rogan of the video game industry, the wisdom of these 2!
Is anyone really shocked that media ignored the context behind Joe's arguement and blew it out of proportion? This is why I dont go to online media. Everything is click bait
Not all online media is tabloid journalism
@@treyt7914 while you are right, I prefer to stay away from it all because I dont want to spend time determining whether its credible or not.
Thank you so much for this point of view. I could not believe how many huge names in the industry just overlooked some of these facts.
Not only that, but there are so many people that will waste years playing video games without an intentions of doing anything with that.
I still somewhat follow a small streamer (zamasdm) and he built his community off of digimon masters online, and once he quit it was super weird seeing his veiwercount go massive. But this was because he started streaming Roblox and for a while he always had 20-80 viewers and once he eventually switched to LoL he usually has 5-15 viewers which are usually those from the dmo days.
Spot on! Thank you for speaking the truth about this whole thing. Love your content.
thank you man - I really appreciate this
This is news? He has said many times he used to be addicted to quake and it derailed his life
Yep......100%
Ya unfortunately. A lot of gamers on Twitter got mad at him. Which i was hella confused at first. God i hate the gaming community sometimes because we honestly get offended so easily over trivial things. Like whenever someone outside of gaming makes comments about it we try to put so much importance onto it, and its like... who cares
Who even cares what Joe Rogan says, he's a complete moron. He's the same guy who said "masks are for idiots". People still listening to Joe Rogan have to have a severe mental handicap.
@@neil2451 well that complete moron is a multi millionaire and has a massive audience, while you have neither... Sooooo
@@lemonlime9073 you're using success as a metric for credibility and knowledge? I guess you think Tekashi 6ix9ine is really smart too then. Let's make articles and videos whenever that guy mentions anything too 🤪
There are so many different games out there and so many different ways to play that making broad statements and generalisations based on own experiences will miss most of reality and feel alien to those with different experiences. There are many factors that have to be present for you playing a game to cause harm. From my life it has definitly been a net good. I've learned a ton of skills that have real world application, the first of which is great computer knowledge. I don't think people realize how valuable that is if you get an officejob outside of IT, where everyone has good computer knowledge. Look for an office job in the health sector for example and you will find that your skills with computers can be extremely valuable in making the work place more efficient and taking advantage of simple cloud-based solutions. You can probably even develop apps for the workplace through Microsoft power apps or logic flows to automate timeconsuming tasks with Microsoft flow/power automate. People take 100-300$/hr to do that for businesses and it is not something you need a specialist for. For me atleast it has been eye opening how bad the average person outside of IT is at IT. Also cooperative and leadership skills from social games like mmos can be valuable as well, understand trade and bartering as well. Ofcourse get a degree too. Just to get hired. And as someone else mentioned here, learning english and interacting with other cultures online can be benefitial.
fuck can you please go on the Joe Rogan Podcast
he loves to speak to people who know things he doesn't. you two would be incredible!
Stop being reasonable & presenting facts. Seriously a fantastic talk Devin. One of your best ones,
Rampage Jackson impersonation of Joe Rogan and “jujitsu guys” popped into my head as soon as he brought up jujitsu.
thanks for bringing this to light
The same applies for sports, theater, dancing, etc. The chances of being successful are low, but are still there and big enough for people to want to try.
Great talk!
What Joe is talking about is an issue for a lot if hobbies the problem is he singled out video games and not hobbies in general his talk of comedy is a contradiction of him saying what he did about video games, how many starving artist are there where did the stereotype of the "actor" moving to Hollywood to become an actor that end up in a dead end job come from, spending an obsessive amount of time on anything isnt healthy and there are many many just as equally time waste activities as videogames, the reason this blew up is because he said there is no path to making money like their is ju jitsu and that is just factually incorrect no matter if the chance is lower or not both can be a complete waste of time if you don't do anything to make it not and honestly the ju jitsu industry isnt as big as he thinks just because him and his buddies are rocking around in Mercedes my instructor can barely cover his costs
Yeap my instructor is one of the best in the world and makes around the same money a technician does.
I am glad you tackled this. Thank you
i do sort of agree with him that gaming leads no where iv been gaming all my life with nothing to show for it apart from a high end pc but a couple months ago i started hiking and for the first time in my life i was able to set myself life goals to achieve, i feel like iv achieved more the last 2 months iv been long distance hiking than i ever achieved playing on my pc, iv got a end goal im working towards and since iv started hiking iv been much happier and im enjoying games more when i sit down to play now because im not spending every second of my spare time in front of my pc
How well does a skill like jiu jitsu translate to in terms of earnings? It's not like people are going out every day to look for people to fight. Most people who go and train in jiu jitsu do it to make friends, exercise, and interact with other people. Isn't that example almost exactly the same as video games? It's also extremely hard to get to a high enough level to teach and make money from it, much less compete, I would say the amount of people earning from it are the same as any gamer who turned to streaming. That goes for many skills.
It's funny that Joe makes a comparison to Jiu Jitsu, which is another area where it's extremely unlikely that you're going to become a pro or teach it yourself.
This would have been better compared with coding, or learning a shop skill like metal/wood work
I think the example just fails on an abstract level. Even if you replaced it with "coding": If you casually mess around in a bunch of different languages/programs but never dive deep and retain anything, you fall into the same problems that Joe is claiming are unique to video games. And believe me, it's entirely possible to "learn" coding for a year or two and not get much out of it... Personal experience.
The problem here is that there IS a flaw to Joe's and Devin's argument. Does this mean that everything they say is wrong? No. Is video game addiction real and a big problem? Absolutely. However it's an ADDICTION problem more than a VIDEO GAME problem.
I think the analogy still holds because
1: You will be physically healthier and possibly increase your lifespan
2: Parents with money actually want to higher teachers for this skill. While this is a thing for video games it's not as lucrative.
So there are more teaching opportunities then you give it credit for
Logic wait hol up. What do you mean by not as lucrative? I would say being good at video games has more potential for money than being good a bjj.
@@imuncomfbecuzihavsubsandno4371 Have you ever looked into coaching for video games? It's not as lucrative. Plenty of people will offer to do it for free, or for 15-20 bucks.
Of course high end coachs can make good money. But a decent martial artist coach can make the same money teaching some 8 year old whos parents make them do it.
@@Damious100 So.. you're saying I can casually spend 3 years playing around with bjj and turn around and make a career teaching? Sign me up!
4:51 - this also applies to ju jitsu >> chances of You succeeding and creating a school/dojo and teaching (successfully) people are astronomically low (same as games).
Joe would need to use a different example - at the moment this argument does not stick.
*He has not experienced the gaming industry to make an informed comment about it (i bit surprised You have agreed with him, Devin).
They didnt say anything about opening up a school or something. Albeit making money by opening a school would be easier than trying to make money/become famous on twitch/youtube.
They are saying that after 3 years of a martial art you have a real world skill that you can use. After 3 years of video game ok cool your plat in LoL... now what? Your pretty good at a singular game and you can play alot of other games at maybe an average level (because being good at one doesnt necessarily mean you'll be good at others) but what real world skill does this offer you.
Joe even says himself that quake in particular is very addicting for him so he has to force himself to not just lose his life in playing it. Like they both said gaming is fun and is good for a lot of people. But for some people (like for example alchohol) can be very addicting and ruin your life. Rogan just worded it weirdly is all
It doesn't seem like you fully watched this video or everything Rogan said. Rogan's example was perfect for the actual point he was making.
@@NaruBrilu "They didnt say anything about opening up a school or something" this is what "make it" means for most people in martial arts >> how many people get to run UFC?
"They are saying that after 3 years of martial art you have a real-world skill that you can use"
I heard this argument already - it's not informed by someone who worked in the gaming industry >>, as a result, Rogans opinion is irrelevant.
There is more money made by gamer vs "someone who was trying to learn a martial art for 3 years" overall...
@@JHopkins Read my reply above >> Rogan is a sample pool of one. He just displayed how little he knows about the gaming industry. As for Devin >> he agreed just to have a prolonged bit to put on RUclips that goes against any other "reaction" out there (the reason he didn't use any statistics to back up this point).
@@NocturnalRecords7 for sure more money if you are in that top .01% on youtube/twitch or pro. Rogan just worded this very weirdly. Its much easier to make money from doing ju jitsu then gaming after doing it for so long etc
100% Agree, using League to try to replace Jui-Jitsu during corona, it's not working. It's fun getting better but nothing compared to BJJ, I'm so sad.
i make a full time living selling and refurbishing collectibles/vintage clothing/video games online and most of the economy aspect of it I learned from perfecting the world of warcraft auction house and diablo 3 auction house.
I agree with the fact that playing videogames isn't going to get you a job or any vallueble life skills.
However I felt like Joe could have made his point better, because to me it sounded at first like he was saying how playing videogames for entertainment is a waste of time.
Such a good walk thank you for this video. I agree 100%
Yes! This! All of this! I believe not enough people approach things with a realistic mentality, including myself. Reality at time sucks but the end result is sooooo worth it! For no matter what it is though. Anything that we want and truly believe we can achieve those goals, at the end no matter what anyone else says you have to push past that and do what you have to do to get there. Once you do, it’s going to be so worth it. I’ve only recently got a taste of it and that accomplishment alone is fantastic! Devin keep up the great work!
Yeah your 100% right before I can even consider content creation I need to straighten out my priorities and get ahold of the demon before I gets even more loose than it is.
Thank goodness you made this video. Sheesh.
Great stuff!
Gamers hate Joe....well i still like the guy
i agree you need to learn other on line things that will translate into value or to use the viewers to show your other talents you can just be a gamer you have to be a gamer and have other skills to package in
i was watching it live and he was defending as well as put the problem out
wow you sound almost exactly like him haha this was trippy, like watching a third-person JRE stream
Honestly, Joe hit the nail right on the head. I've watched old league pros who are only active still because one of two reasons. They've adapted their content, or are just riding out the wave they had when they had the popularity and rely on stupid gimmicks and stuff to keep attention on them. People think this is a hand out, but like what you and Joe said and what I've seen with pro gamers, people ride the wave someone else is making, but complain when they get off it or it dies and their channel stops.
Yes but hes being hypocritical, his podcast dont provide value to us either, it doesnt get a job and watching him for 3 years doesnt do anything more then video games. Oh wait....then nobody watches Joe Rogan and his job would be over..
I have about 20 yrs in the martial arts and never had a fight and never taught in a dojo, so is that a waste of time. How many people currently think they can be a UFC fighter so they train hard in MMA and how many of them make it? All hobbies are a waste of time with that mentality. Also years of martial arts gives you injuries all over your body.
Wow this was so honest. Mr. Nash
Dude yes! Finally someone that takes a look at this in an objective way. I personally used to grind video games. I developed socially anxiety and got fat. Ended up having to lose 50lbs and in doing so I saw profound psychological benefits that video games never gave me. I leveled up in life. And leveling up in life is a lot more satisfying than leveling up in a game. At least to me and I feel like for most people.
I'll be honest idk how we define a waste of time. cause I could say getting any university degree that won't net you like 50k or 100k income would be a waste of time (like a history degree).
imo if you are gonna talk about a clip this short you should let the clip play first. good content as always
Joe was addicted to playing Quake for a while so I know he isn't ignorant of the downsides of gaming or even the gaming industry as it stands now.
But it still doesn't add up?
You don't do Jujitsu against other people online in your free time like with games, you make a concentrated effort to learn under a coach who's job is to teach you this skill with a focus on getting better at this skill (Juijitsu). Nobody is doing any martial arts "for fun" or because all their friends are doing it and they want to hang out with them in the same setting like in a video game.
If you spent the same amount of time training in a competitive video game with a former professional player (like you would learning martial arts from a certified instructor or former competitor) you'd be much better than top 10% plat in league - I'd argue 3 years playing with a coach or player on a real pro team would probably make you totally capable of playing that game on a competitive level against other pros. I've been playing league on and off for almost 5 years, I'd get absolutely crushed by someone who's been playing for less than a year *if* that person was trained by a coach or played with the dedicated purpose of getting to the pinnacle of that games ability.
But imo even *that* doesn't matter. My biggest issue is with Joe tying 3 years of Jujitsu to winning competitions, starting a small business teaching Jujitsu and owning a Mercedes.
Is Jujitsu that easy? 3 years of training leads to foreign cars and owning your own business? Being the top in the sport doesn't require anything other than 3 years of weekly classes? ofc he isn't saying that but I'd argue if you took 100 people and trained with professionals from each field at the end of that 3 years you'd have way more professional streamers and gamers than you ever would competitively viable martial artists.
Not to mention I can't be a black belt from my bedroom every night after work while decompressing and playing with my friends.
I can get to diamond in league though. (not me personally but you get the point).
To everyone saying "but even if you don't go pro in martial arts you'd still be fit" yeah sure go for it.
If this conversation becomes "is exercise healthier than video games" we all know the answer but at the end of the day I know which one I'm picking.
EDIT: I also don't think Joe correcting his guest on the probability of becoming a pro gamer is him admitting the feasibility of gaming as a career. 1 in a billion with
Yeah joe exagerated. Most people dont even know what they are doing after 3 years of bjj. Getting to black or blown takes way way more. time for the vast majority of people.
Also bjj most world class pros get paid scraps.
And you would be suprise how many people do bjj and are still unhealthy
I was surprised at how many people were upset at what he said.
I dunno what's up with people on this community getting so defensive the moment someone says anything slightly negative (which in this case it isn't even negative) about gaming.
It just depends on what someone wants out of life. If you can check off the 3 "Taking care of yourself" boxes of Physical, Mental, and Financial health then personally I don't care how you choose to spend your time or how much of it as long as it's not hurting anybody. The problem is there is undoubtedly a large portion of gamer's that check none of those boxes and just hide from the world by gaming all of the time. So Joe's not entirely wrong here by any means, he probably should have just clarified who he was targeting a little more.
I agree with that lots of people waste their time that don't do anything but video game. But honestly can we really just specify that towards gaming? the same situation is there in lots of category's. i think if you really want to make money of something you like doing you can. But as you said if you just put up your stream in OBS and want to make a living of that, That aint gonna make the cut. I think if you are a person who really wants to make money of something if you have the drive and motivation you can make it work one way or another.
I personally would love to make money of streaming but i have not even started streaming and am hesitant to even start because of not wanting to fall into a pitfall.
Devin Nash and Rogan would be a great podcast
Nash you caught me. I wasn't subscribed. This has changed. I have hit the bell notification. I have hit the like button. I am now depressed and very sorry :(. gg and great content!
I remember seeing this clip in that podcast and being oddly inspired by it. OOOO Affirmation!
What Joe Rogan doesn't understand is that the average gamer is about 30 years old.
Kids getting addicted is a problem, but most gamers already put in their 12-16 years of personal development, and an extra 3 years isn't going to make much of a difference at that point.
Also another misconception is that gaming is a "skill" that can be compared to other "skills" like learning Martial Arts, music, or crafts. However the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics correctly labels gaming as recreation, like reading books, or watching television.
In that regard, playing something like League of Legends for 3 years (on your spare time) will not only provide more cognitive simulation versus watching TV, but those players may also develop their own support network, which can evolve into life long friendships that can extend well beyond the lifespan of the game.
the best thing that can happen to gaming is it can become like any other sport. Start young with clubs/teams wether it be sanctioned by the school (elementary) or a league outside. Have high school teams and then the best from high school go on to college and if all works out they become a top streamer along the way or make the cdl or owl or whatever the game may be.
I actually really appreciated how you did just shit on the guy. No, you intelligently expressed your opinions. Great video!
It should be clear that it is a hobby that has a use and be understood to bring no value on its own.
I love to play my games of choice but I try to do two things.
1. I have my work, workout and meditation done before I play.
And
2. I try to use them. Some of them as Stress reliever to stop thinking about stuff I can not change. Others as training to highten my tolerance of frustration. Learning to stay calm and communicate well even if I am pissed.... And so on...
Through my short eve phase I learned to love Excel.
So yeah they can have great value but not out of them self.. they were not designed to. They were designed to be fun and often to be a money sink....
Honestly Devin, I'm in the same boat as you. Good job, girlfriend, friends etc, the reality is that my playing video games for hours after work IS a waste of time. As Joe says, you don't have anything at the end of it. I could argue that it's good for my brain, and "couldn't I argue doing other stuff is a waste of time vs studying skills etc", and yes I could.
We are voluntarily wasting our time, and I think that is ok only IF you are still dedicating free time to developing yourself.
I get that he's talking from a personal standpoint but it's important to remember that not only can pretty much anything become an addiction, but that it's not always an intrinsic property of the item or activity that makes it cause that addiction; it can just as easily be the psychology/personality of the addict that does so
I agree with many of your points.
We're still not addressing the argument of how many times a person gets into a BJJ match out in the wild.
Even if it's 0, you'll most likely improve your health and make friends/network.
@@tgo007 That second part also applies to gaming even moreso, since you can meet more people from around the world. Also, there's probably a higher number of gamers that are interested in areas of the market that have expected growth.
Logical. Well thought out. Refreshing.
The only thing I want to know is, what Corp/Alliance is Devin Nash in Eve Online. XD
Had the same thoughts, for me video games are a "wast of time", I'm having fun, but I could get so much knowledge other ways.
Good take, can't agree more.
totally agree. this year I stop playing video games so I can focus on getting better at painting and drawing to in the future work on the game industry
Yeah I definitely agree with almost everything though I think there are a ton of "real life" activities that you don't gain any helpful skills from either. Many might keep you more healthy than playing video games or let you show off to your friends but as long as you only do those for fun the gained skills often times don't really help you in society.
But Joe didn't say you can only get life/career benefit from being a game/streamer 'if' you put the work into it as with anything. He made a blanket statement that you totally can get revenue generating benefit from three years of JuJitsu but not from gaming.
I would like to suggest that if you survey ten thousand JuJitsu practitioners, not teachers, just random people who practice it, and then thousand people who game and stream, you would not see much of a difference in terms of them going on with that skill to generate income.
It seems to me that the real discussion is about dedication as just about any pastime can be turned into a career with enough time and effort and I thin that's what Devin was steering this conversation towards.
I have a bit of experience with both as I attended a hard core, among the mountains type martial arts school in Korea for eight months and also was an avid gamer and made cable shows about PS1 era console, PC and Arcade games in the mid 90's. lol, I didn't make any money from the martial arts and neither did any of the hundreds of students I studied with, but I made a bit of a supplemental income from the games TV production stuff. And, to Devin's point, I used to sleep on the editing room floor for a few hours a night only so it took dedication.
Man that comment about video games being a demon you have to keep on a leash, even down to the POE example, was too real. Even being married and having some decent success professionally I constantly have to keep it on a leash.
They destroyed my relationship and career by affecting my grades. I placed too much of a priority on some games and time just gets away from you. It wasn’t till later that I disciplined myself and that I started to finally control that part of my life. That’s my own story which is really tame. There’s people who have the same issue coupled with gambling addictions and it compounded into higher stakes. People losing their whole family and home because of loot boxes and weapon skins. It’s insane.
I'm a gamer myself and a portion of them are toxic going no where. I even been there myself. Sucks even more when it's somebody close to you, but either way we should respect everyone's way of living. Do what you love I guess, just no point of being toxic.
Unfortunately even being a professional player doesn't cut it, let's take for example f0rest which is a CSGO player and has a lot of time in the professional gaming scene, according to Liquidmedia he made $716,288 on a 13 years career and keep in mind that for many years his ROI was a fat 0. If you split the amount he earned $716,288 (this is before taxes) to 17, the numbers of years since he is active you get $42,134 a year and then split to 12, numbers of months you get $3,511 a month.
A few years ago f0rest said in a interview that he practicing around 8-10 hours a day to keep being at the top level, and if Devin sees this he can correct me, if the team you're playing for has a contract with let's say Twitch then the players are required to stream a number of hours a week, plus in the same interview f0rest said that before every tournament his team practices intensly for about 1-2 months so you can add that to.
To put it into prospective a normal fastfood employee get's about $13 an hour in US so that gets you to ~$2300 per month and works in a job that doesn't need any prior experience, is not mentality under pressure all the time to perform, just goes to work for 8 hours and gets paid, that's it. A fastfood manager gets about $19 which takes you to $3,382 almost the amount that f0rest would make, it takes you about 1-2 years to be a fastfood manager, no stress. The funny part is that the fastfood manager has the possibility to get more experience and get a better paying job, when in this case f0rest if would it be to leave the pro scene and wouldn't want to stream, or have anything to do with gaming because after 13 years is burned out he wouldn't have no skills in the real world to show for, if he would go to a interview and any place woould ask him what have you done with your life, because now his 30 years old, he would say, yeah in the last 13 years old I played video games, any company hires based on experience, if you don't have it you go to a lower/entry paid bracket.
Overall, yes, being a "gamer" or even a professional gamer for that matter is a waste of time, if you do it for 2-3 hours a day just to relax, that's fine, but if you want to do it for a long time, you're better of learning some skills that can brind value to other people and get paid for. So kids, choose wisely, don't waste your time, especially in your 20s and early 30s doing nothing, learn some skills and bring value to the table.
I get inspired listening to how hard the odds are, not uninspired lol
I disagree with the "Play league of legends for 3 years, get platinum, and you have learned nothing useful at the end of it". I personally have learned a lot about problem solving, team work, persistence, and focus to name a few from having played league for several years that I apply at least to some extent almost on a day-to-day basis personally and professionally. It depends on how you approach playing. If you're a zombie queuer doing the same thing every game and flaming and shoving blame off yourself, then yeah, you didn't learn much after 3 years.
Sorry devin for coming late to the video
I translate a lot of things from video games in real life... back problems for example
I agree that lootbox multiplayer games are a waste of time, but I believe that co-op games / single player games can be a good source of stress relief. Playing something like Undertale for the first time is at least teaching you something in terms of storytelling rather than hopping into the millionth queue of League just to rage.
2.5 billion active gamers in the world, less than 80,000 make over $160,000 per year. You might as well play the lottery every day.
Great talk.
Never tell me the odds
ruclips.net/video/1lTcgSzf0AQ/видео.html
The Problem is and was that people these days can't think "right" ... I'm not so good with words here, because its hard to explain.
They don't understand what a person is REALLY trying to say. Instead they only hear what they want to hear or they simply DON'T have the intelligence to understand it.
Devin is explaining it for the majority but it would be great if this wouldn't be needed in the first place.
Good take.
The amount of detached, head-in-the sand takes from gamers and people in the industry was obscene this time. Video game addiction is a massive issue and the idea of “building a career in gaming” as an excuse for sitting on your ass playing games sixteen hours a day is one of the most intoxicating reasons to be addicted to anything. I know, I’ve been there. And gaming is so effortless as a pass time that the work required to become a professional in the industry is lost on most gamers.
Why does he say that "only doing it for the money" like its a bad thing, 90% of the reason i picked the career im working towards is money.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. Becoming a streamer has nothing to do with skills. It's about entertainment and how you proceed yourself on stream. It's all about eye candy and it's been this way for a long time in any profession. Also, if you are a people person that can be enjoyed just to watch and not for your gaming skill, it's a win win situation. You need to know how to engage with viewers. Income wise, it's not that hard to be a streamer and make an income. You can have enough people viewing you to pay bills. The plus side, you are making money playing games. Like a 9 to 5 job.
Haircut lookin sharp
This doesn't make any sense. If I sat down to play video games and all of a sudden I can't, I'm just gonna watch TV or play on my phone....... We are talking about regret, not waste per se. ONLY if you regretted the time that you spent can it possibly be a "waste", since it was yours to begin with. Most people aren't clear about that regret.