Cool idea. I remember one Halloween a guy in my neighborhood put up sheets of screen door mesh material from the ground to the lower branch of a tree and then projected a loop of ghost floating upward. He had a fog machine on the ground for effect and to hide the 2x4 plank that the bottom of the screen was attached to. At night you couldn't see the screen mesh at all, just the projection of the ghost appearing to rise up out of the fog and then disappear into the tree. The overall effect was very impressive. Since the image was projected onto the screen mesh it could be viewed from both sides and gave the ghosts a more ethereal appearance than if they were projected into solid surface like a garage door.
Love that you're giving this a shot, and THANK YOU for ending this video at an in flux state for this project. Helps us DIYers keep up the confidence to redesign and rework stuff that may not work right the first time. I'm going to look into making something similar, though as a couple of people have pointed out, i'll probably point the fog down. I hope to achieve a decent fog wall effect by running fog through a homemade chiller, then into a PVC with holes drilled in it. I can then attach this pipe to some kind of vertical stands, and hopefully get a fog wall effect. Could probably project onto it, as well. Keep it up!
A couple of thoughts that might help on the next iteration: It looks like the fans might be introducing a lot of turbulence, which in turn is disrupting the fog. Consider adding some of the corrugated plastic to the 'air ducts' on either side of the tube. If you're using a cold fog (like the ultrasonic one), it will want to fall down, rather than rise up like the hot fog from the fog machine. Consider flipping the whole thing over so the airflow and fog are heading down if you use the ultrasonic mist. Right now the airflow only helps to keep the fog flat in one direction. Consider placing something (large and flat ish) on the left and right sides to block any errant air currents from disrupting the fog in the horizontal direction. And lastly, rather than using a short-throw projector like in this video, consider getting a long-throw projector and moving it farther back. The rays of light will be closer to being parallel to each other, which will mean any 'ghosting' due to fog in front of or behind the target projection plane will be the same apparent size as the primary image.
I hadn't thought about directing the screen medium downward (though I should have) due to density issues... After researching further, that seems to be what others do to improve their projection systems.
Also, the longer the small tubes, the more the turbulence is straightened, at least until they present more of a restriction than they're worth due to sidewall friction. The multi-tube structure is commonly referred to as a flow straightener--they use them in wind tunnels to ensure non-turbulent airflow. Those are frequently a honeycomb shape because that packs as many tubes as possible into a given area. Consider making the exit ends as square and burr-free as possible. Any bits of plastic protruding into the airflow will introduce their own turbulence, reducing the overall effectiveness. Also consider a fan speed control to keep the fan flow from disrupting the fog flow any sooner than needed.
Thanks for keeping it real and acknowledging that everything doesn’t work the first time. It’s a good lesson and a reminder that this is as much about discovery as accomplishments.
Such a massive fan of everything you do!!! My husband and I are using several of your videos to seriously up out Halloween game! Thank you for sharing your talent with the world!!!!!!
So many great ideas here! Yes, the basic rule is don’t try and fight the medium. Warm smoke rises, cool fog sinks. Also, the laminar air flow device needs to cover the entire opening of the accumulator. Introduce the positive air flow from a longer dryer hose to reduce the turbulence from the fans being so close. Make sure the fan device is variable speed as you’ll need to tune it correctly to dial in the proper air flow. It’s typically less than you think. We had a lot of different smoke/fog effects in our show in Tokyo and they were all LN2. The variables were just how air flow we used to move it from the large accumulator to the port on stage and at what temperature. Also the volume of the connecting lines made a huge difference. For the low lying fog we needed high volume but low pressure in a cool state. For the jets we needed less volume but more pressure. Good luck on the next one!😊
Super project! I’ve long wanted to make this, since pesky projection curtains just seem so material! Some evil genius thoughts: In addition to collimating the fog flow, using coffee stirring straws to collimate the air flow on either side should yield two laminar sheets of air, between which will be the fog. The resistance to air flow will be high; a powerful fan long term will likely be needed. BTW, a pre-collimator may help further increase the uniformity of airflow- basically any sort of filtering material does not have to be very high filtration) to provide some resistance and uniform flow as the air enters the collimator. The space between the air sheets will need to be tuned in… too close and you will get a pressure drop in the fog zone, creating vortices. Increasing the volume of fog, rather than the velocity of fog should help fill the fog zone. I’d experiment with larger collimators (straws) for the fog- that will reduce the resistance to flow, reducing vortices while increasing flow rate and volume. Rather than fog directly from the fog machine, a set up like a fog chiller (but without the chill) would act as a high volume space, allowing the fog to fully expand and slow as it enters the fog collimator, like a big volume based pre-collimator. Speaking of chillers, flipping the whole thing upside down, having the fog curtain project down would enable you to chill the fog, adding a gravity assist to the whole picture. In that scenario you could reduce the strength of the air curtains, letting them be only strong enough to direct the fog. They would not really have to contain it much, since it will want to go down. Having a downward fog curtain off of your house gutter, over an archway, gate, etc could be a more interactive experience…. Looking forward to seeing where you and the community bring this!
Thanks for making videos like this. It makes me feel better about not getting it right the first time and having to rework things. I have learned a lot from watching your channel and wish you continued success.
my dad and I made one for a haunt almost exactly like this but instead used a 50 gallon chiller with a high-output DJ machine. the fog got pumped up to a 4 inch PVC pipe with a slit full of straws then drop out over our porch where we projected from my room (had to digitally keystone) so the entrance to our house had a really similar effect to the pirates of the Caribbean ride where blackbeard is floating. wer also used a mesh screen hanging from our garage door to project a ghost of a dead girl whose lifelike silicone body we had decapitated by a homemade gravestone. it was literally just screen door material but in the dark it was super convincing!
I remember that display at the convention. It was exactly as you describe it, tucked away in a corner. I stood there and studied what he'd built for quite some time. Agree, laminate both the air flow and the fog.
Somone has probably already mentioned this. The reason for all the straws in the original design you saw is that it "columates" the air, meaning it gets the air moving in a non-turbulent way. The trick is used with water fountains where you want a thin steam of clear water as well. Still really cool what you're trying. I enjoy these experiments.
The water trick is known as laminar flow. The little channels reduce the amount of turbulence of water flowing through a pipe and "parallelize" the liquid as it exits the pipe resulting in what is known as a coherent stream. You typically see this used in leapfrog fountains where a short, coherent stream of water appears to bounce from one point to another. This technique also works with light as well. Photographers will use an insert for their lights called a honeycomb grid (essentially a matrix of hexagonal tubes.) Again, the tubes eliminate all stray light and allow only the light rays parallel with the tubes to pass through. The result is a more tightly focused pool of light. This technique would work really well for highlighting specific props in a haunt without light spilling over and onto other props/backgrounds.
I’ll add to this that if the mist is even slightly heavier than air, it may pause once it leaves the tube, blocking what’s coming up below it and causing those “tufts”. Hanging the thing upside down might help because then gravity is assisting the flow.
what if instead of blowing fog upwards you used cold fog and let it fall from a ceiling mounted unit or out of an attic opening, so it falls like a waterfall?
So many awesome suggestions already thrown out there. I wonder which way you'll go. For my two cents I'd create the laminar air flow and met the fog go along for the ride. In the grocery industry, open face coolers use this exact technique. Keeping the turbulence down in the air is the key. Good luck Derek and I can't wait to see what you come up with.
Nice timing. I have been wanting to do this for a couple of years now. I'm pretty sure I know what I need to do, looking forward to seeing if our thoughts are similar.
I love the energy you've invested in this and having recently started listening to your podcast, this ties in with the ethos that sometimes things don't work as expected. It's been said in many of the comments that the fans are causing turbulence, and having made a small wind tunnel in the past and suffered a similar issue can totally endorse their validity...but in addition to this you may get a better outcome if all your vapour lines were equal length from the PVC plenum. The honeycomb style laminate you used is a good improvisation but it's not likely to deliver a uniform vapour delivery and therefore you get patchy image quality.
The "channeling" you speak of is also used with streams of water (called laminar flow) and lighting (photographers use what is called a honeycomb grid to filter out stray light and create a concentrated beam. Good for highlighting props and scene details).
We usually use pvc with holes drilled into it to help disperse our fog. We did this one year because the season happened to be at the right time, just after we'd harvested our hydroponics garden. So we just used the pipe from that. If you have a 3d printer you could print a converter to remove the risk of seepage. Projections are big at our house and last year I had the pvc pipe with the fog flowing just under the projection screen. If I was going to try to use the fog to project onto, I would raise the pipe and fog machine up to above head height with the holes pointed down rather than up. It would have to be 7 or 8 feet off the ground so no one runs into it. It might work well over an arch or doorway. Then I'd project onto it either from another high spot or from the edge. I'd also make sure there's a gray mesh projection material behind it to catch whatever light the fog misses, always hoping that the fog gives it a better 3d effect. Gray mesh in an open space is far less visible to the eye at night than white is. So it's less likely to be seen. Voile chiffon is good for projections and comes pretty cheap on Amazon in bulk. I would avoid using a fan unless I'm going with intocoasters low lying fog generator build. The issue with the fan is it'll push the fog out way to fast otherwise and there's no telling what the wind will be like, if you're building this inside or outside. You want a lot of smoke coming out at a slow pace and hanging around in the same spot for a while, so it has more mass to catch the light like an actual screen would. I was hoping to build something like this this year, but we're in Korea and I have no idea where to get fog juice or vegetable glycerin. Good luck on this build.
We were very close to resolving this about 20 years ago. The corregated plastic is creating laminer flow. We used corrugated egg crate ceiling panels, cutting down a section. We did not use fans, but an inline ventury. By installing an air regulator, we could adjust air volume. Smoke was in a collection box, this also helps collect oil waste that builds up. Our last attempt was to build an overhead up duct fan above to assist pulling smoke upwards.
I did a fog screen last year for halloween using 3D printed hexagon air channels. You really need a layer of air on either side of the mist moving at the same speed and direction to get a stable projection surface. It turned out fairly large in the end (working on smaller this year). But I was able to get a 4ft wide by 4 foot high projection wall before the fog became to unstable.
Personally, I prefer imperfect fog (and water) screens. Seeing a patchy, defocused, impressionist hint of a ghost seems far spookier to me than a crisp, clear, and flat projection of a very literal and tangible character. I'd much rather hear a visitor exclaim "What is that?!" than "Cool graphics, bro." Anyway, thanks for sharing what you've learned with your experiment!
Others have already mentioned some good ideas (especially collimating the *airflow,* not just the fog/mist), but two other ideas I'd throw out: 1. Computer fans such as those you used are not intended to produce smooth, laminar flows; they produce all kinds of uncontrollable vortices. Even the differences in the widths of the blades along their lengths changes the flow from the center to the rim. *"Squirrel cage" fans produce smoother, more consistent airflow.* 2. I'm a big fan of using plena to prepare any gas or liquid for injection or integration into something else. In other words, a plenum, or "air chest", where air (or another gas) can collect and be "staged" can help with density, controllability, etc. -- especially if you decide to mount it _above_, so the cool mist/fog can be directed _downwards._ The fog (or mist) that you're using is coming out of the generator as quickly as it can be supplied, but it will always be straining to keep up with the "demand". But if you have a chamber for it to collect in for a moment before being integrated with the 2 laminar airflows produced by the fans, it can have a better chance to build up to a density that will produce the desired effect. (This is kind of like an air compressor attached to an air supply tank: that produces much more consistent airflow than just having the air line coming directly off of the compressor. Or the way a pipe organ has an "wind chest" to collect high-pressure air.) Again, as others have already suggested, chilling the fog/mist will help by both increasing its density and to causing it to fall through warmer ambient air. Combining a chiller box and plenum would be the best of both worlds. Regardless, you've earned another subscriber. 👍
Try to get you air curtain to be laminar flow as well so it does not disturb the fog as much. Maybe use coro on the air venting too. Longer the better?
Interesting. I hadn't considered using both. As for downward facing, I figured since fog rises it made more sense for it to travel in its natural direction. The mist definitely benefits from downward trajectory due to the weight.
I'm not sure fog does rise? Hot air rises to meet cool air which is one way fog happens, but doesn't it then fall, and roll down into dips and valleys? 🤔 Fog not on the ground would be cloud wouldn't it? Probably not worth worrying about the direction being right as long as you get the effect, especially in a supernatural themed environment! Cool video, excited to see where it goes! You can buy more powerful ultrasonic mist making parts (sorry, can't recall what the actual part is called 🤦🏼♀️) for ponds etc to use with your own water supply although that could make the surroundings pretty wet. It's an evil plan I have for an eventual enchanted jungle themed conservatory.
The fog and ultrasonic mist combo will make the fog heavy and want to fall. That combination with the fans will push the fog down. Create a large enough surplus of fog in your box and adjust the fan speed to give the desired effect. Lightning is key, low light I think would be best. I too have been thinking of this, not that I have attempted it, just some ideas.
I've seen a variation of this effect at Six Flags Over Georgia's Monster Mansion dark ride. One of the upgrades they made a decade ago was a mist curtain that projected a beckoning spectral face as you entered the marsh (DON'T GO IN THE MARSH!) The projection seemed a little blurry as well, not sure if it was intentional or not but it was a neat effect to see in person. Might just be the nature of the beast for fog/mist projections, but it could help sell the illusion of a ghostly figure if you had a framing device like a portal or a temple entrance, maybe a mausoleum?
Would there be any value in adding a second fog machine (and if necessary a second “output”) to make is somewhat more dense of a screen, per se? (I do like the overhead /downward mount idea, though!)
Perhaps invert the project and use a fog chiller set up which would allow for fog to condense and gravity to assist the process. Similar to Pirates of the Carribean's Davey Jones effect.
Awesome concept. This has probably already been mentioned, but have you tried turning off the fans and bring the fog unit closer to the box with a gap between the box and the nozzle of the fog machine? I've done a fog screen before at a haunt but it was directed downward for people to walk through. I did not know an image can be projected on to it! That is AWESOME! Thanks for your hard work on these tutorials.
Maybe a dumb question, but did you focus the projector to the plane of the fog? You didn't show anything like that in the video. My projector has to be focused like a camera depth of field(plane of the screen/fog). Turn all lighting off but the projector. Luminosity could be a factor too. Need tons of light.
So, having never worked with a fog machine except on stage with bands, I'm limited in the practical application. But, one of the things you mentioned was moving the fog machine farther away. I'd simplify the process by experimenting with increasing the length of connecting hose between the fog machine and the display unit. At some point, there has to be a sweet spot between the pressure it puts out and the eventual exit of the fog.
What about using low lying fog and have it drop down from high above instead of trying to push the fog up. You ma be able to make it more dense that way. Dunno just shooting from the hip. Either way nice project. Oh just seen the past comments on this. Sorry for the repeat.
Thank you so much for posting this video. I have two very large fog machines but never got around to using them as a projection screen.. I had planned to . I'll just stick with a thin piece of material . Thank you for saving me from the aggravation ! By the way where did you get the red bust in the background.?. I would love to have one ! I've been searching everywhere.
what about using one of the low laying fog machines and pump the fog from above and project on that? maybe build a box that will direct the low fog in a straight line. Like the box you built but upside down?
Very good effect. I wonder if a top down approach would work better? The Pirates of the Caribbean ride has a fog curtain with a projected image. The fog is generated at the top and just pours down over the guests.
Reminds me of the Capt Barbosa image in the Pirates of the Caribbean rides. The projection looks like it is projected on a screen of falling water, complete with the sound of falling water tricking the brain. When the boat goes through the curtain of fog, it scatters, and you don't get wet.
Cool concept - thanks for sharing, always interesting to see the interim stages & thought processes on a project. I see a number of suggestions about slowing the fan speed - you likely already know this, but you can lower the input dc voltage to slow the fans - super easy if you have a variable supply, but simple enough to find a 9v or 7v supply in a junk drawer.
My first thought is to use two parallel airstreams on either side of a fog gap. Would reduce the condensation in the tubes, but pull the fog along for the ride.
I have been thinking of this same special effect for a long time! I already do rear-screen and "holusion" projection in my haunt but I have wanted to make a screen of fog like this. I think your build is great but a suggestions I have is to invert the box so the mist/fog is going down. Then reduce the speed of the fans so that the it is more of a directed breeze doing down. There is a version of this "fog screen" at the end of the Harry Potter ride in Universal Studios. Near the end of the ride the "Dark Mark" is produced by this fog screen effect and an animated skull is projected on it. I have toyed with ideas on how to do this and your design comes close. I just think that the volume of air is either too much or too fast. Slowing it down could allow a thicker fog layer. Thanks for all the videos, I am a big fan of your channel. Also you have a great voice, you should do more voice-over... or maybe you already do!
I wonder if this concept with the fog machine would work better if it was pushing the fog downward instead upward, as I believe the fog is heavier than air. Just a thought.
Im sure youve probably solved this by now. But i was thinking maybe the fans are too powerful. 2 or 3 smaller fans or maybe install a dimmer switch on the existing setup to lessen the air movement. That might condense the fog a little better at the output. Just a thought.
I'm wondering if you considered the turbulence issue created by the fans with your particular setup?... Instead of directing the fans up, use a more powerful blower directed into the chamber then using the same corrugated sheets, direct the airflow up towards fog/mist... Attempting to keep the fog/mist "sandwiched" between the sheets of air on either side of the fog/mist ports... Next, consider the volume of fog/mist you're pumping out... If you continue with fog, build your own fog machine and consider you may wish to over engineer it to produce the volume you'd need. That alone could make indoor use prohibitive and then you may wish to stick to outdoor use... If mist is the better option, obviously you'll need a more powerful mister. Maybe even consider super chilling (not freezing) the water?... Third, you should consider that your projector may not be powerful enough to produce a good, bright, "sharp" image on your chosen "screen"... Good luck.
So awesome, I admire how you engineer these projects up! May I ask where you learned these skills/any resources you would suggest to start off with? I am very interested in adding motion to my projects/dioramas. I also want to learn about LEDs, especially different ways of how to power them. I would Ideally like to plug a project in (instead of batteries), and even better, to have a remote that works with them. Thank you in advanced, I truly love your work :)
Hi Abby! It’s hard to say where I picked up the skills. I’ve always been curious about how things work and as a graphic designer I’ve always looked at things a little different than most people. So I think it’s the combination of those things that help me to engineer projects like this one. I have some other videos on motion and led lighting that may be a good place to start. So I’d check those out.
What if instead of the fog floating upwards you set it up so the fog flows downward from the pvc pipe? Basically, instead of the fog flowing from the floor up, it flows from the ceiling downward.
Great video! what about setting it up vertically- and having fog/mist/smoke jet out the side?- at CES 2013 IEEE had a similar mock up projecting Thomas Edison - i understand the engineering issues with bottom up and why most attempts settle with top down- but you lose the effect with a heavy overhead apparatus. Vertical setup would help mitigate wind and could be hidden in a foam obelisk (maybe even build a second one from the other side to really make an interesting effect)
How about inverting the device? Chill the fog first and use gravity since the cooler air will descend towards the ground. Maybe throttle the fans power output to help achieve a nice slow and smooth sheet of fog. An added bonus would be the cooler chilled fog will accumulate on the ground providing a slow creeping fog after its initial purpose.
Very cool. Perhaps play with different fan speeds or try chilling the fog first. Also a hazer might work better than a fog machine . Will definitely have to try this. I would buy a glowforge if they ever make it so it will work offline.
I’ve seen a mist version at a Tampa Aquarium, it’s meant to look like a portal (sort of) that ppl walk through, and there’s a cartoon animated on it, and the mist reaches the floor, so 8-10’. The mist in that instance was more like a waterfall, coming down from the ceiling in a “wall” of mist. However, there was never a “Solid” mist, it varied, but was THICK enough to display the projection… if there were fans used, they weren’t very powerful or were placed further away. So my test ideas would first be: turn the mechanism upside down, and trim the gator board to be flush or lower than the lip of the opening. If that doesn’t change much, I’d reduce the fan to one- OR- extend the chamber so the fans are farther away, maybe 10-12” to start, increasing 6-8” if it looks like it’s improving the situation, and I’d use cardboard to test instead of more laser cuts.
Inverting it would definitely work better for water vapor, since gravity wants to pull it down. For fog, my thinking was that fog is heater and therefore rises, so why not point it up. Both directions work, although I think the vapor could work if the machine was able to output even more mist. Shortening the gator board is a good idea. I hadn't considered that. And 100% yes to cardboard for prototyping. I just didn't have any on hand.
I have a low lying fogger and thought the same (sort of) thing. There's a falling fog projection effect on Pirates of the Caribbean at Disneyland that gave me the idea.
My initial thought was that since uncooled fog rises it would make more sense to point it up. Dry ice is definitely an option, although expensive and you'd need to change it out frequently.
Okay just maybe a dumb suggestion, but what if you invert the device, hang or elevate it. and let the fog naturally fall down without the fans blowing it? Then project onto the wall of fog, or vapor that way?I think I've seen this effect at the haunt over in Irvine, called Boot Hill. I remember it being quite effective but it's been a few years.
I had this idea a while back. My idea was to use a fog machine and chiller. And create the curtain and have it flow down from above instead of below. Then fans may not be needed and as the fog machine recycles (heats back up), the ghost is invisible. I hope to try it or you can attempt it as a Part 2.
I think maybe try a hazer instead of a fogger as it gives a lot more output with little or no reheating time. From what I saw I figure if you had more volume of fog or mist you would get a better image. I agree with the comments about the air flow needs to be less disruptive and maybe having it fall instead of blowing upwards you would get a more controlled effect. I am sure you will figure it out, looking forward to your next attempt.
Inverting this and using a fog chiller might solve some of your problems. The fog chiller becomes a resting point for the fog... no more fits and starts from the fog machine. Put the fans inside the chiller to push the fog into the inverted directional unit. This keeps the turbulence from the fan out of the expel point. This might allow for a smoother, more continuous curtain. All experimental, of course.
Instead of using a fan and blowing the fog upward. Why don't you turn it upside down and use chill fog flowing downward just idea don't know if it will work
The Davy Jones projector effect in Pirates of the Carribean has the fog draping straight down in a sheet, and it has no odor so it is probably ultrasonic and perhaps chilled to help keep its form and pull it down.
A 4 to 8 ft long version of what you did but instead hanging it from the ceiling is how we accomplished our those still choppy it looks good in the woods or in the dark dark..
Its close. My bet like other is the air turbulence has something to do with the poor fog sheet. I'd suggest using a blower style fan, with a buffer box that will redirect into a similar thing to your corigated sheet. this will create a laminar flow fog, surrounded in a laminar flow air path. creating that and hanging the fog sheet box upside down to the orientation the one in the video is in will solve the condensation build up in the tube paths.
Disney used to use this effect in the pirates rice in mk orlando. Try instead of coming out from below flip the box position so either the most or fog drop down instead.
With the current set up you could try adding a row of halogen bulbs or LED’s under the stream of mist to get a fire effect like the Opti-myst fires. Not a fog screen but something you could try !
when I was working on a prop that refused to work, no matter what I did, I went into the house and my husband said, "you look absolutely dejected!" I told him "My prop failed" His answer to me, "do it over and fail better" He was right LOL, I took it apart, drilled some extra holes, and it worked! (It was an electric chair)
I haven't seen one of these facing up, its always been facing down. Maybe try trimming the coroplast down a little. Also try narrowing the opening space for the air flow to come out around the Coloplast [maybe with duct tape to test]. Getting a laminar flow is tricky.
Maybe try having adjustable speed to your fans. Another option may be to use landscape misters in a fan pattern spraying down from above and projecting on the mist of water.
Good video!! I like the corrugated panel idea but i would have tried some different methods. I would have tried other corrugated items, with bigger holes. Also on idea would be to get a better mist maker. Try a ten port submersible mister that are used in backyard ponds or mushroom growing, the output is phenomenal ! secondly, if using a mist maker, it work better for hazing or low lying fog, so have it suspended and shoot downwards. Keep in mind, using a mist maker like this will create condensation, so better to use outside. Also, dim the room to get a better view of what you are projecting.
I like it! I was thinking that a screen made of Saran wrap or some sort of see thru plastic wrap that would be between the projector and the fog. The "Screen" would be something for the fog to cling to...(or collect on...). if the screen was at an angle, and the fog came from the top it would "roll" down the plastic. (?). Another odd thought; The corrugated plastic (Jets?) that sit in the tube... Would it help anything if the "Jets" were different heights? This looks like such an interesting idea... If done right, I could see someone peeing their pants...!
When I've seen this done before, there was a TON more fog. (I believe they used 3 theatrical foggers.) I think, too the fans may be blowing a bit too hard for the amount of fog you currently have. I'm not sure of the scale (or budget) or exactly how to scale down what I saw, but I'll work on that too. Good luck with this to all! Let's make it work. ;-)
I don’t think it’s the fog that needs the tubing but the air flow itself. The tubing is acting as a duct to direct the flow but in your set up, the air is what needs directing, not the fog. The fans spin the air and the box itself causes buffeting as the air flows through. Check out how those fancy Dyson bladeless fans work. The solution might be in removing the turbulence from the air flow so that the fog or mist can slip easily into that narrow, controlled stream.
My hope initially was that the device could be hidden behind a tombstone, so having the fog fall wasn’t an option. But it’s likely the best way to get the effect to work.
For the humidifier, top down. Thats how Disney does it. For the fog machine maybe heat the fog. If you heat the fog you may be able to skip the fans altogether. Use a controller like an arduino to make the fans variable or just use potentiometers for an analog solution to control the airflow from the fans, maybe you can dial in less turbulence. Attempting to achieve "laminar flow" from the corrugated channels is a good idea, but im not sure that can be achieved as easily as, say, water. Interested in seeing the next iteration.
Have you considered having the mist/fog FALL rather than rise (i.e. mount your rig on the ceiling instead of the floor), this should allow for a much fuller fog that goes a further distance as gravity will work WITH your rig rather than against it.
that was pretty cool. what if instead on a large fog machine you used vape pen it won't solve the issue of the fog being visible but should give a more consistent fog cover with the benefit of being more portable. making it more useable. imagine doing a variation on the invisible man costume where the projector is hidden in the collar pointed up and the fog curtain is raining down from a bowler hat. the effect could be a mist ghost. add into the projector not just a skull but a 4 point pepper's ghost so the skull has a 3d look to it. the mist will hide some of the problems of the projector system and will make an over all cool effect add some skeleton gloves and fog piping to the cuffs of your suit and a very dapper gentleman ghost you will be
I think this is awesome. I like that it's an experiment we get to follow along with. Side Note: I enjoy listening to you. Almost a Casey Kasem kind of voice. Ever thought about reading audio books?
I'm no expert by any means, but some ideas I had are to turn it upside down so the fog falls since it would be cooled down by the fans. Also, try lowering the speed of the fans so the fog has more space to work with.
Great video Derek. I've been able to do the same but with Low Lying Fog coming from the top down. I've got a couple geysers from Tater - might give something similar a shot in the near future 👊🏻
Cool series! I think the channel size where the fog escapes is too large. I don't mean to complicate your experiment - but being able to control the air intake and outlet may be beneficial to finding the right equilibrium. Good luck!
Use the corrugated plastic to guide the air instead of the fog. This is what's called a laminar air flow. It should make the air less turbulent and trapped the fog in between it. Then you won't have problems with the condensation of the fog inside the plastic. You might also try a bunch of plastic soda straws yet thick soda straws compressed together to make a honeycomb pattern. It might make the air flow smoother than the square coordinated plastic channels
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Cool idea. I remember one Halloween a guy in my neighborhood put up sheets of screen door mesh material from the ground to the lower branch of a tree and then projected a loop of ghost floating upward. He had a fog machine on the ground for effect and to hide the 2x4 plank that the bottom of the screen was attached to. At night you couldn't see the screen mesh at all, just the projection of the ghost appearing to rise up out of the fog and then disappear into the tree. The overall effect was very impressive. Since the image was projected onto the screen mesh it could be viewed from both sides and gave the ghosts a more ethereal appearance than if they were projected into solid surface like a garage door.
Love that you're giving this a shot, and THANK YOU for ending this video at an in flux state for this project. Helps us DIYers keep up the confidence to redesign and rework stuff that may not work right the first time. I'm going to look into making something similar, though as a couple of people have pointed out, i'll probably point the fog down. I hope to achieve a decent fog wall effect by running fog through a homemade chiller, then into a PVC with holes drilled in it. I can then attach this pipe to some kind of vertical stands, and hopefully get a fog wall effect. Could probably project onto it, as well. Keep it up!
A couple of thoughts that might help on the next iteration: It looks like the fans might be introducing a lot of turbulence, which in turn is disrupting the fog. Consider adding some of the corrugated plastic to the 'air ducts' on either side of the tube. If you're using a cold fog (like the ultrasonic one), it will want to fall down, rather than rise up like the hot fog from the fog machine. Consider flipping the whole thing over so the airflow and fog are heading down if you use the ultrasonic mist. Right now the airflow only helps to keep the fog flat in one direction. Consider placing something (large and flat ish) on the left and right sides to block any errant air currents from disrupting the fog in the horizontal direction. And lastly, rather than using a short-throw projector like in this video, consider getting a long-throw projector and moving it farther back. The rays of light will be closer to being parallel to each other, which will mean any 'ghosting' due to fog in front of or behind the target projection plane will be the same apparent size as the primary image.
I hadn't thought about directing the screen medium downward (though I should have) due to density issues... After researching further, that seems to be what others do to improve their projection systems.
I had the same idea and just commented, then I saw you already said pretty much the same thing. Maybe we are on to something?
Also, the longer the small tubes, the more the turbulence is straightened, at least until they present more of a restriction than they're worth due to sidewall friction. The multi-tube structure is commonly referred to as a flow straightener--they use them in wind tunnels to ensure non-turbulent airflow. Those are frequently a honeycomb shape because that packs as many tubes as possible into a given area. Consider making the exit ends as square and burr-free as possible. Any bits of plastic protruding into the airflow will introduce their own turbulence, reducing the overall effectiveness. Also consider a fan speed control to keep the fan flow from disrupting the fog flow any sooner than needed.
@@scubabemethese are really excellent comments. I'm going to implement them into my next build. Thank you!
Thanks for keeping it real and acknowledging that everything doesn’t work the first time. It’s a good lesson and a reminder that this is as much about discovery as accomplishments.
You bet! We learn just as much from falling short as we do from our successes.
Such a massive fan of everything you do!!! My husband and I are using several of your videos to seriously up out Halloween game! Thank you for sharing your talent with the world!!!!!!
So many great ideas here! Yes, the basic rule is don’t try and fight the medium. Warm smoke rises, cool fog sinks. Also, the laminar air flow device needs to cover the entire opening of the accumulator. Introduce the positive air flow from a longer dryer hose to reduce the turbulence from the fans being so close. Make sure the fan device is variable speed as you’ll need to tune it correctly to dial in the proper air flow. It’s typically less than you think. We had a lot of different smoke/fog effects in our show in Tokyo and they were all LN2. The variables were just how air flow we used to move it from the large accumulator to the port on stage and at what temperature. Also the volume of the connecting lines made a huge difference. For the low lying fog we needed high volume but low pressure in a cool state. For the jets we needed less volume but more pressure. Good luck on the next one!😊
Thanks!
Super project! I’ve long wanted to make this, since pesky projection curtains just seem so material! Some evil genius thoughts: In addition to collimating the fog flow, using coffee stirring straws to collimate the air flow on either side should yield two laminar sheets of air, between which will be the fog. The resistance to air flow will be high; a powerful fan long term will likely be needed. BTW, a pre-collimator may help further increase the uniformity of airflow- basically any sort of filtering material does not have to be very high filtration) to provide some resistance and uniform flow as the air enters the collimator. The space between the air sheets will need to be tuned in… too close and you will get a pressure drop in the fog zone, creating vortices. Increasing the volume of fog, rather than the velocity of fog should help fill the fog zone. I’d experiment with larger collimators (straws) for the fog- that will reduce the resistance to flow, reducing vortices while increasing flow rate and volume. Rather than fog directly from the fog machine, a set up like a fog chiller (but without the chill) would act as a high volume space, allowing the fog to fully expand and slow as it enters the fog collimator, like a big volume based pre-collimator. Speaking of chillers, flipping the whole thing upside down, having the fog curtain project down would enable you to chill the fog, adding a gravity assist to the whole picture. In that scenario you could reduce the strength of the air curtains, letting them be only strong enough to direct the fog. They would not really have to contain it much, since it will want to go down. Having a downward fog curtain off of your house gutter, over an archway, gate, etc could be a more interactive experience…. Looking forward to seeing where you and the community bring this!
Thanks for making videos like this. It makes me feel better about not getting it right the first time and having to rework things. I have learned a lot from watching your channel and wish you continued success.
Thanks so much!
my dad and I made one for a haunt almost exactly like this but instead used a 50 gallon chiller with a high-output DJ machine. the fog got pumped up to a 4 inch PVC pipe with a slit full of straws then drop out over our porch where we projected from my room (had to digitally keystone) so the entrance to our house had a really similar effect to the pirates of the Caribbean ride where blackbeard is floating. wer also used a mesh screen hanging from our garage door to project a ghost of a dead girl whose lifelike silicone body we had decapitated by a homemade gravestone. it was literally just screen door material but in the dark it was super convincing!
I remember that display at the convention. It was exactly as you describe it, tucked away in a corner. I stood there and studied what he'd built for quite some time. Agree, laminate both the air flow and the fog.
Somone has probably already mentioned this. The reason for all the straws in the original design you saw is that it "columates" the air, meaning it gets the air moving in a non-turbulent way. The trick is used with water fountains where you want a thin steam of clear water as well. Still really cool what you're trying. I enjoy these experiments.
The water trick is known as laminar flow. The little channels reduce the amount of turbulence of water flowing through a pipe and "parallelize" the liquid as it exits the pipe resulting in what is known as a coherent stream. You typically see this used in leapfrog fountains where a short, coherent stream of water appears to bounce from one point to another. This technique also works with light as well. Photographers will use an insert for their lights called a honeycomb grid (essentially a matrix of hexagonal tubes.) Again, the tubes eliminate all stray light and allow only the light rays parallel with the tubes to pass through. The result is a more tightly focused pool of light. This technique would work really well for highlighting specific props in a haunt without light spilling over and onto other props/backgrounds.
I’ll add to this that if the mist is even slightly heavier than air, it may pause once it leaves the tube, blocking what’s coming up below it and causing those “tufts”. Hanging the thing upside down might help because then gravity is assisting the flow.
@@johncooperrider9886 FYI the word he was going for - collimate - means to make parallel/aligned.
This guy deserves 100x more views then he is getting.
what if instead of blowing fog upwards you used cold fog and let it fall from a ceiling mounted unit or out of an attic opening, so it falls like a waterfall?
- that’s how Disney dose it on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride …
ruclips.net/video/nm76VoRS4Ck/видео.html
The Disney projection might not be what you think there. Pretty sure other things are involved.
You could chill the mist through a chiller to keep it heavy.
I'm diving in to all the vids to improve my party! thanks for the vids
So many awesome suggestions already thrown out there. I wonder which way you'll go. For my two cents I'd create the laminar air flow and met the fog go along for the ride. In the grocery industry, open face coolers use this exact technique. Keeping the turbulence down in the air is the key. Good luck Derek and I can't wait to see what you come up with.
Nice timing. I have been wanting to do this for a couple of years now. I'm pretty sure I know what I need to do, looking forward to seeing if our thoughts are similar.
Best of luck!
I love the energy you've invested in this and having recently started listening to your podcast, this ties in with the ethos that sometimes things don't work as expected. It's been said in many of the comments that the fans are causing turbulence, and having made a small wind tunnel in the past and suffered a similar issue can totally endorse their validity...but in addition to this you may get a better outcome if all your vapour lines were equal length from the PVC plenum. The honeycomb style laminate you used is a good improvisation but it's not likely to deliver a uniform vapour delivery and therefore you get patchy image quality.
The "channeling" you speak of is also used with streams of water (called laminar flow) and lighting (photographers use what is called a honeycomb grid to filter out stray light and create a concentrated beam. Good for highlighting props and scene details).
This is brilliant! What a great idea! I'm hoping the community can come together and work on a solution to this.
Thanks Ron! Fingers crossed. This community is very clever.
We usually use pvc with holes drilled into it to help disperse our fog. We did this one year because the season happened to be at the right time, just after we'd harvested our hydroponics garden. So we just used the pipe from that. If you have a 3d printer you could print a converter to remove the risk of seepage. Projections are big at our house and last year I had the pvc pipe with the fog flowing just under the projection screen. If I was going to try to use the fog to project onto, I would raise the pipe and fog machine up to above head height with the holes pointed down rather than up. It would have to be 7 or 8 feet off the ground so no one runs into it. It might work well over an arch or doorway. Then I'd project onto it either from another high spot or from the edge. I'd also make sure there's a gray mesh projection material behind it to catch whatever light the fog misses, always hoping that the fog gives it a better 3d effect. Gray mesh in an open space is far less visible to the eye at night than white is. So it's less likely to be seen. Voile chiffon is good for projections and comes pretty cheap on Amazon in bulk. I would avoid using a fan unless I'm going with intocoasters low lying fog generator build. The issue with the fan is it'll push the fog out way to fast otherwise and there's no telling what the wind will be like, if you're building this inside or outside. You want a lot of smoke coming out at a slow pace and hanging around in the same spot for a while, so it has more mass to catch the light like an actual screen would. I was hoping to build something like this this year, but we're in Korea and I have no idea where to get fog juice or vegetable glycerin. Good luck on this build.
We were very close to resolving this about 20 years ago.
The corregated plastic is creating laminer flow. We used corrugated egg crate ceiling panels, cutting down a section.
We did not use fans, but an inline ventury. By installing an air regulator, we could adjust air volume. Smoke was in a collection box, this also helps collect oil waste that builds up.
Our last attempt was to build an overhead up duct fan above to assist pulling smoke upwards.
Awesome! You got a lot farther than I did when I tried to make one a few years ago.
I did a fog screen last year for halloween using 3D printed hexagon air channels. You really need a layer of air on either side of the mist moving at the same speed and direction to get a stable projection surface. It turned out fairly large in the end (working on smaller this year). But I was able to get a 4ft wide by 4 foot high projection wall before the fog became to unstable.
Personally, I prefer imperfect fog (and water) screens. Seeing a patchy, defocused, impressionist hint of a ghost seems far spookier to me than a crisp, clear, and flat projection of a very literal and tangible character. I'd much rather hear a visitor exclaim "What is that?!" than "Cool graphics, bro."
Anyway, thanks for sharing what you've learned with your experiment!
Absolutely! That's the beauty of being a haunter.
So cool! Excited to see other vids of this series!
Thanks! I think it's important to show the wins and the losses. You can learn just as much from both.
Others have already mentioned some good ideas (especially collimating the *airflow,* not just the fog/mist), but two other ideas I'd throw out:
1. Computer fans such as those you used are not intended to produce smooth, laminar flows; they produce all kinds of uncontrollable vortices. Even the differences in the widths of the blades along their lengths changes the flow from the center to the rim. *"Squirrel cage" fans produce smoother, more consistent airflow.*
2. I'm a big fan of using plena to prepare any gas or liquid for injection or integration into something else. In other words, a plenum, or "air chest", where air (or another gas) can collect and be "staged" can help with density, controllability, etc. -- especially if you decide to mount it _above_, so the cool mist/fog can be directed _downwards._ The fog (or mist) that you're using is coming out of the generator as quickly as it can be supplied, but it will always be straining to keep up with the "demand". But if you have a chamber for it to collect in for a moment before being integrated with the 2 laminar airflows produced by the fans, it can have a better chance to build up to a density that will produce the desired effect. (This is kind of like an air compressor attached to an air supply tank: that produces much more consistent airflow than just having the air line coming directly off of the compressor. Or the way a pipe organ has an "wind chest" to collect high-pressure air.) Again, as others have already suggested, chilling the fog/mist will help by both increasing its density and to causing it to fall through warmer ambient air. Combining a chiller box and plenum would be the best of both worlds.
Regardless, you've earned another subscriber. 👍
Thank you for all of this!
Try to get you air curtain to be laminar flow as well so it does not disturb the fog as much. Maybe use coro on the air venting too. Longer the better?
Possibly!
You need fog and ultra sonic mist, and invert the box so it’s facing down to help remove the condensation.
Interesting. I hadn't considered using both. As for downward facing, I figured since fog rises it made more sense for it to travel in its natural direction. The mist definitely benefits from downward trajectory due to the weight.
Pirates of the Caribbean at Disneyland had a similar effect for while, near the beginning of the ride. The mist went down...
See this video if you don’t remember the effect ruclips.net/video/knGx7Efxnr8/видео.html
I'm not sure fog does rise? Hot air rises to meet cool air which is one way fog happens, but doesn't it then fall, and roll down into dips and valleys? 🤔 Fog not on the ground would be cloud wouldn't it? Probably not worth worrying about the direction being right as long as you get the effect, especially in a supernatural themed environment! Cool video, excited to see where it goes! You can buy more powerful ultrasonic mist making parts (sorry, can't recall what the actual part is called 🤦🏼♀️) for ponds etc to use with your own water supply although that could make the surroundings pretty wet. It's an evil plan I have for an eventual enchanted jungle themed conservatory.
The fog and ultrasonic mist combo will make the fog heavy and want to fall. That combination with the fans will push the fog down. Create a large enough surplus of fog in your box and adjust the fan speed to give the desired effect. Lightning is key, low light I think would be best. I too have been thinking of this, not that I have attempted it, just some ideas.
I've seen a variation of this effect at Six Flags Over Georgia's Monster Mansion dark ride. One of the upgrades they made a decade ago was a mist curtain that projected a beckoning spectral face as you entered the marsh (DON'T GO IN THE MARSH!)
The projection seemed a little blurry as well, not sure if it was intentional or not but it was a neat effect to see in person. Might just be the nature of the beast for fog/mist projections, but it could help sell the illusion of a ghostly figure if you had a framing device like a portal or a temple entrance, maybe a mausoleum?
Would there be any value in adding a second fog machine (and if necessary a second “output”) to make is somewhat more dense of a screen, per se? (I do like the overhead /downward mount idea, though!)
fog machine remotes seem to be universal so if you ran two machines on either side of the pipe perhaps you can get a more even flow of fog?
Very cool video. But what if you were to remove the corrugated material and just let the fog pass through the slit you cut in the pipe?
I’ll have to try it and find out.
Perhaps invert the project and use a fog chiller set up which would allow for fog to condense and gravity to assist the process. Similar to Pirates of the Carribean's Davey Jones effect.
Awesome concept. This has probably already been mentioned, but have you tried turning off the fans and bring the fog unit closer to the box with a gap between the box and the nozzle of the fog machine? I've done a fog screen before at a haunt but it was directed downward for people to walk through. I did not know an image can be projected on to it! That is AWESOME! Thanks for your hard work on these tutorials.
Maybe a dumb question, but did you focus the projector to the plane of the fog? You didn't show anything like that in the video. My projector has to be focused like a camera depth of field(plane of the screen/fog). Turn all lighting off but the projector. Luminosity could be a factor too. Need tons of light.
Not a dumb question at all. I focused on a piece of wood that was in the path of the fog before running the fogger/mister.
So, having never worked with a fog machine except on stage with bands, I'm limited in the practical application. But, one of the things you mentioned was moving the fog machine farther away. I'd simplify the process by experimenting with increasing the length of connecting hose between the fog machine and the display unit. At some point, there has to be a sweet spot between the pressure it puts out and the eventual exit of the fog.
What about using low lying fog and have it drop down from high above instead of trying to push the fog up. You ma be able to make it more dense that way. Dunno just shooting from the hip. Either way nice project.
Oh just seen the past comments on this. Sorry for the repeat.
I remember a system like that a while ago. The system used a thick cascading mist like a waterfall with a projector. You could walk through it.
Nice build. Do you have templates available?
I don’t, unfortunately.
Thank you so much for posting this video. I have two very large fog machines but never got around to using them as a projection screen.. I had planned to . I'll just stick with a thin piece of material . Thank you for saving me from the aggravation !
By the way where did you get the red bust in the background.?. I would love to have one ! I've been searching everywhere.
You’re welcome. The red bust was 3d printed from files I bought online at cults3d.com
what about using one of the low laying fog machines and pump the fog from above and project on that? maybe build a box that will direct the low fog in a straight line. Like the box you built but upside down?
Very good effect. I wonder if a top down approach would work better? The Pirates of the Caribbean ride has a fog curtain with a projected image. The fog is generated at the top and just pours down over the guests.
Reminds me of the Capt Barbosa image in the Pirates of the Caribbean rides. The projection looks like it is projected on a screen of falling water, complete with the sound of falling water tricking the brain. When the boat goes through the curtain of fog, it scatters, and you don't get wet.
in a aquarium parc I saw something similar, with pipes projecting multi water vapor, that was perfect for projection
Cool concept - thanks for sharing, always interesting to see the interim stages & thought processes on a project. I see a number of suggestions about slowing the fan speed - you likely already know this, but you can lower the input dc voltage to slow the fans - super easy if you have a variable supply, but simple enough to find a 9v or 7v supply in a junk drawer.
My first thought is to use two parallel airstreams on either side of a fog gap. Would reduce the condensation in the tubes, but pull the fog along for the ride.
Boxes of leftover power supplies? Sounds familiar. 😂. Corrugated plastic sounds like a good plan. I like your debug process.
It’s a good start, Is there any reason you didn’t do it in front of a black backdrop?
Not really. I had filmed at night but the camera couldn’t focus on the projection, so I didn’t include it.
@@VanOaksProps understood, anyways this video solidified me as a new subscriber and I am totally onboard if this is a series, keep up the good work!
@@TitusJ thanks so much. I really appreciate it.
I have been thinking of this same special effect for a long time! I already do rear-screen and "holusion" projection in my haunt but I have wanted to make a screen of fog like this.
I think your build is great but a suggestions I have is to invert the box so the mist/fog is going down. Then reduce the speed of the fans so that the it is more of a directed breeze doing down. There is a version of this "fog screen" at the end of the Harry Potter ride in Universal Studios. Near the end of the ride the "Dark Mark" is produced by this fog screen effect and an animated skull is projected on it. I have toyed with ideas on how to do this and your design comes close. I just think that the volume of air is either too much or too fast. Slowing it down could allow a thicker fog layer.
Thanks for all the videos, I am a big fan of your channel. Also you have a great voice, you should do more voice-over... or maybe you already do!
As to improvements, shorten the plastic part/extend the sides so the fog is forced into a now smaller slit created by your side panels.
I wonder if this concept with the fog machine would work better if it was pushing the fog downward instead upward, as I believe the fog is heavier than air. Just a thought.
run the fog through a chiller and emit it downward from above, should give a nice fog-sheet
Im sure youve probably solved this by now. But i was thinking maybe the fans are too powerful. 2 or 3 smaller fans or maybe install a dimmer switch on the existing setup to lessen the air movement. That might condense the fog a little better at the output. Just a thought.
I'm wondering if you considered the turbulence issue created by the fans with your particular setup?... Instead of directing the fans up, use a more powerful blower directed into the chamber then using the same corrugated sheets, direct the airflow up towards fog/mist... Attempting to keep the fog/mist "sandwiched" between the sheets of air on either side of the fog/mist ports... Next, consider the volume of fog/mist you're pumping out... If you continue with fog, build your own fog machine and consider you may wish to over engineer it to produce the volume you'd need. That alone could make indoor use prohibitive and then you may wish to stick to outdoor use... If mist is the better option, obviously you'll need a more powerful mister. Maybe even consider super chilling (not freezing) the water?... Third, you should consider that your projector may not be powerful enough to produce a good, bright, "sharp" image on your chosen "screen"... Good luck.
So awesome, I admire how you engineer these projects up! May I ask where you learned these skills/any resources you would suggest to start off with? I am very interested in adding motion to my projects/dioramas. I also want to learn about LEDs, especially different ways of how to power them. I would Ideally like to plug a project in (instead of batteries), and even better, to have a remote that works with them. Thank you in advanced, I truly love your work :)
Hi Abby! It’s hard to say where I picked up the skills. I’ve always been curious about how things work and as a graphic designer I’ve always looked at things a little different than most people. So I think it’s the combination of those things that help me to engineer projects like this one.
I have some other videos on motion and led lighting that may be a good place to start. So I’d check those out.
What if instead of the fog floating upwards you set it up so the fog flows downward from the pvc pipe?
Basically, instead of the fog flowing from the floor up, it flows from the ceiling downward.
Great video! what about setting it up vertically- and having fog/mist/smoke jet out the side?- at CES 2013 IEEE had a similar mock up projecting Thomas Edison - i understand the engineering issues with bottom up and why most attempts settle with top down- but you lose the effect with a heavy overhead apparatus. Vertical setup would help mitigate wind and could be hidden in a foam obelisk (maybe even build a second one from the other side to really make an interesting effect)
Also with a vertical arrangement you could slightly angle the tubes/straws/corrugated material downward so condensate would drip out ...
Great suggestion!
How about inverting the device? Chill the fog first and use gravity since the cooler air will descend towards the ground. Maybe throttle the fans power output to help achieve a nice slow and smooth sheet of fog. An added bonus would be the cooler chilled fog will accumulate on the ground providing a slow creeping fog after its initial purpose.
Very cool. Perhaps play with different fan speeds or try chilling the fog first. Also a hazer might work better than a fog machine . Will definitely have to try this. I would buy a glowforge if they ever make it so it will work offline.
I’ve seen a mist version at a Tampa Aquarium, it’s meant to look like a portal (sort of) that ppl walk through, and there’s a cartoon animated on it, and the mist reaches the floor, so 8-10’. The mist in that instance was more like a waterfall, coming down from the ceiling in a “wall” of mist. However, there was never a “Solid” mist, it varied, but was THICK enough to display the projection… if there were fans used, they weren’t very powerful or were placed further away.
So my test ideas would first be: turn the mechanism upside down, and trim the gator board to be flush or lower than the lip of the opening.
If that doesn’t change much, I’d reduce the fan to one- OR- extend the chamber so the fans are farther away, maybe 10-12” to start, increasing 6-8” if it looks like it’s improving the situation, and I’d use cardboard to test instead of more laser cuts.
I just read several other comments saying turn it upside down 😂 so definitely do that!
Also kudos on that Gator board idea to create channels!
Inverting it would definitely work better for water vapor, since gravity wants to pull it down. For fog, my thinking was that fog is heater and therefore rises, so why not point it up. Both directions work, although I think the vapor could work if the machine was able to output even more mist.
Shortening the gator board is a good idea. I hadn't considered that. And 100% yes to cardboard for prototyping. I just didn't have any on hand.
What if you used the same concept just turn it upside down and use cooled fog from dry ice or something
I have a low lying fogger and thought the same (sort of) thing. There's a falling fog projection effect on Pirates of the Caribbean at Disneyland that gave me the idea.
I was going to suggest dry ice as well, but I hadn't thought about turning it upside down.
My initial thought was that since uncooled fog rises it would make more sense to point it up. Dry ice is definitely an option, although expensive and you'd need to change it out frequently.
@@VanOaksProps absolutely there are ice cooled floggers like mr cool that might be an option anyways I’m huge fan keep up the amazing tutorials
@@VanOaksProps ruclips.net/video/sV4C_I0yCX8/видео.html
Okay just maybe a dumb suggestion, but what if you invert the device, hang or elevate it. and let the fog naturally fall down without the fans blowing it? Then project onto the wall of fog, or vapor that way?I think I've seen this effect at the haunt over in Irvine, called Boot Hill. I remember it being quite effective but it's been a few years.
Maybe have the unit upside down hanging so gravity helps it? I don't know just thinking...
Is there another part for this?
Unfortunately, I lost steam on it and haven't made a follow up.
I had this idea a while back. My idea was to use a fog machine and chiller. And create the curtain and have it flow down from above instead of below. Then fans may not be needed and as the fog machine recycles (heats back up), the ghost is invisible. I hope to try it or you can attempt it as a Part 2.
Would the fog machine issues be resolved via some kind of "throttle" to decrease exhaust/venting speed?
Possibly!
@@VanOaksProps maybe try to prototype with a PVC ball valve? PVC fittings scale and seal pretty easily between devices.
I think maybe try a hazer instead of a fogger as it gives a lot more output with little or no reheating time. From what I saw I figure if you had more volume of fog or mist you would get a better image. I agree with the comments about the air flow needs to be less disruptive and maybe having it fall instead of blowing upwards you would get a more controlled effect. I am sure you will figure it out, looking forward to your next attempt.
Inverting this and using a fog chiller might solve some of your problems. The fog chiller becomes a resting point for the fog... no more fits and starts from the fog machine. Put the fans inside the chiller to push the fog into the inverted directional unit. This keeps the turbulence from the fan out of the expel point. This might allow for a smoother, more continuous curtain.
All experimental, of course.
I was thinking top down using dry ice?
you need more fog
Instead of using a fan and blowing the fog upward. Why don't you turn it upside down and use chill fog flowing downward just idea don't know if it will work
The Davy Jones projector effect in Pirates of the Carribean has the fog draping straight down in a sheet, and it has no odor so it is probably ultrasonic and perhaps chilled to help keep its form and pull it down.
Myst dropping from above instead of being forced up?
A 4 to 8 ft long version of what you did but instead hanging it from the ceiling is how we accomplished our those still choppy it looks good in the woods or in the dark dark..
I still think it worked great! If the room was dark it would have been spooky and cool. Great start!
Thanks!
Its close. My bet like other is the air turbulence has something to do with the poor fog sheet. I'd suggest using a blower style fan, with a buffer box that will redirect into a similar thing to your corigated sheet. this will create a laminar flow fog, surrounded in a laminar flow air path. creating that and hanging the fog sheet box upside down to the orientation the one in the video is in will solve the condensation build up in the tube paths.
Disney used to use this effect in the pirates rice in mk orlando. Try instead of coming out from below flip the box position so either the most or fog drop down instead.
With the current set up you could try adding a row of halogen bulbs or LED’s under the stream of mist to get a fire effect like the Opti-myst fires. Not a fog screen but something you could try !
Great idea!
when I was working on a prop that refused to work, no matter what I did, I went into the house and my husband said, "you look absolutely dejected!"
I told him "My prop failed"
His answer to me, "do it over and fail better"
He was right LOL, I took it apart, drilled some extra holes, and it worked!
(It was an electric chair)
That's awesome. I would have said the same thing. :-)
@@VanOaksProps it's so easy to become myopic when dealing with a problem prop.
Sometimes, just stepping away for a day or two helps
I haven't seen one of these facing up, its always been facing down. Maybe try trimming the coroplast down a little. Also try narrowing the opening space for the air flow to come out around the Coloplast [maybe with duct tape to test]. Getting a laminar flow is tricky.
Good suggestions!
Maybe try having adjustable speed to your fans. Another option may be to use landscape misters in a fan pattern spraying down from above and projecting on the mist of water.
Good video!! I like the corrugated panel idea but i would have tried some different methods. I would have tried other corrugated items, with bigger holes. Also on idea would be to get a better mist maker. Try a ten port submersible mister that are used in backyard ponds or mushroom growing, the output is phenomenal ! secondly, if using a mist maker, it work better for hazing or low lying fog, so have it suspended and shoot downwards. Keep in mind, using a mist maker like this will create condensation, so better to use outside. Also, dim the room to get a better view of what you are projecting.
Good to know. I had looked at the submersible foggers but couldn’t justify the cost.
I like it! I was thinking that a screen made of Saran wrap or some sort of see thru plastic wrap that would be between the projector and the fog. The "Screen" would be something for the fog to cling to...(or collect on...). if the screen was at an angle, and the fog came from the top it would "roll" down the plastic. (?). Another odd thought; The corrugated plastic (Jets?) that sit in the tube... Would it help anything if the "Jets" were different heights? This looks like such an interesting idea... If done right, I could see someone peeing their pants...!
When I've seen this done before, there was a TON more fog. (I believe they used 3 theatrical foggers.) I think, too the fans may be blowing a bit too hard for the amount of fog you currently have. I'm not sure of the scale (or budget) or exactly how to scale down what I saw, but I'll work on that too. Good luck with this to all! Let's make it work. ;-)
Yeah using, i think an actuator, to slow the fans down or be able to fine tune the airflow with the fog flow might help?
When you get this figured out it will be an interesting effect.
I don’t think it’s the fog that needs the tubing but the air flow itself. The tubing is acting as a duct to direct the flow but in your set up, the air is what needs directing, not the fog. The fans spin the air and the box itself causes buffeting as the air flows through. Check out how those fancy Dyson bladeless fans work. The solution might be in removing the turbulence from the air flow so that the fog or mist can slip easily into that narrow, controlled stream.
What if you had cold/chilled fog coming from a higher output point and “raining” down using gravity?
My hope initially was that the device could be hidden behind a tombstone, so having the fog fall wasn’t an option. But it’s likely the best way to get the effect to work.
For the humidifier, top down. Thats how Disney does it. For the fog machine maybe heat the fog. If you heat the fog you may be able to skip the fans altogether. Use a controller like an arduino to make the fans variable or just use potentiometers for an analog solution to control the airflow from the fans, maybe you can dial in less turbulence. Attempting to achieve "laminar flow" from the corrugated channels is a good idea, but im not sure that can be achieved as easily as, say, water. Interested in seeing the next iteration.
Have you considered having the mist/fog FALL rather than rise (i.e. mount your rig on the ceiling instead of the floor), this should allow for a much fuller fog that goes a further distance as gravity will work WITH your rig rather than against it.
that was pretty cool. what if instead on a large fog machine you used vape pen it won't solve the issue of the fog being visible but should give a more consistent fog cover with the benefit of being more portable. making it more useable. imagine doing a variation on the invisible man costume where the projector is hidden in the collar pointed up and the fog curtain is raining down from a bowler hat. the effect could be a mist ghost. add into the projector not just a skull but a 4 point pepper's ghost so the skull has a 3d look to it. the mist will hide some of the problems of the projector system and will make an over all cool effect add some skeleton gloves and fog piping to the cuffs of your suit and a very dapper gentleman ghost you will be
I think this is awesome. I like that it's an experiment we get to follow along with.
Side Note: I enjoy listening to you. Almost a Casey Kasem kind of voice. Ever thought about reading audio books?
Thanks! I’ve thought about it but have no clue how to get started.
What about a ground fogger with the fog coming down instead.
I'm no expert by any means, but some ideas I had are to turn it upside down so the fog falls since it would be cooled down by the fans. Also, try lowering the speed of the fans so the fog has more space to work with.
Tony Ouslers the artist, has this thoroughly figured out.
I'll have to check him out. Thanks for the tip!
Great video Derek. I've been able to do the same but with Low Lying Fog coming from the top down. I've got a couple geysers from Tater - might give something similar a shot in the near future 👊🏻
You're awesome 👌 👏 😎 ❤ enjoy your videos 📹 please keep them coming 🙏 and here to help get your videos out to everyone 😀
Thanks Roger. That’s awfully nice of you to say.
Can we ask Spectral Illusions to add fog to their video?
Hahaha. I think their videos are great just as they are.
Cool series! I think the channel size where the fog escapes is too large. I don't mean to complicate your experiment - but being able to control the air intake and outlet may be beneficial to finding the right equilibrium. Good luck!
Thanks for the tips!
Use the corrugated plastic to guide the air instead of the fog. This is what's called a laminar air flow. It should make the air less turbulent and trapped the fog in between it. Then you won't have problems with the condensation of the fog inside the plastic.
You might also try a bunch of plastic soda straws yet thick soda straws compressed together to make a honeycomb pattern. It might make the air flow smoother than the square coordinated plastic channels
um, just watched the vid 😳 I'm in over my head 😆
That makes two of us!