No it can't. Too many variables. Asphalt temp, tire compound and , jetting, the other guy has a cnc ported intake, how old is your fuel I your cell, he didn't screw the pooch on the light. Finally, he has corporate sponsorship and you don't. Or he has more. Or he's been in the game since his daddy's daddy's daddy and you spent a bunch of money on parts over the last 4 years. See, too many variables.
@@mikes.1882yeah and if you were 7hp down you lost by .001 but instead you won by .001 cause that 7hp was the difference. Port matching is easy and doesn’t take to long for 7hp only a fool would leave it behind.
Many years ago I port matched some Holden GM cast iron heads to an original 4 barrel inlet manifold. On most ports they weren’t even close a few of the ports had 2/3’s of the port blocked as the head was left and the manifold was right in the shift. Just cleaning this up turned the motor into a screamer. Luckily the inlet manifold is aluminium, so some welding was needed to help bring it to the heads.
Intake port matching is a pain in the ass, but with the price of engines these days, there's no point in leaving anything on the table, unless it's a stock rebuild.
Hey Eric, Tim here, not the most conclusive, but DID demontrate gains in port matching.....sometimes, on a given combo, the low lift flow gains CUZ its matched, gives the user more tq low which MAY be what they're after...i LIKE how you quanified ur findings to a given combo.....its SUPER important!!!!.....i got a Pontiac, i cant scream it to 7500.......so if i've port matched, my low lift (.400 and lower) are in play, it GAINS us NICELY!!!.....glad u set some parameters for ur claim......NICE JOB!!!!..and TY, as i've been a sub'r/follower for some 3 or 4 yrs now.....again, QUALITY content!!!.!!
@@lollipop84858 hahaha, pls, like i'm some authority???....i aint nobody......i just know Engines......and enjoy technical info to absorb, quanify, and use in my daily life and my shop!!
It's what I would have said. Fluid dynamics is complex . A smooth surface is not necessarily the best for fluid flow. Shark skins and golf ball dimples prove otherwise.
do you see these kinds of changes with a dual plane? i also gather you would do this porting along with other intake porting tricks to fit the application to generate possibly more results?
@@lollipop84858 Yeah, I'm paying attention. First off, I am an experienced engine builder myself, and I do a lot of my own port work anyway, not the least of which is matching heads to an intake. Secondly, I already have an intake that may work for my customer's application, I'll have to see what Eric thinks about it when we expect the cam to the heads. I may port match it myself, or send it to him for an entire working over. Third, I'm just curious. What's it to you?
depends on the heads and intake,delta positive -delta negative..what keepers valve springs and retainer are you using on those to easily use a 800 lift cam ?
What’s your opinion on lifter valley stand pipes on sbc. I’d like to see a back to back dyno test of with and without them. Vizard claims something like 8hp gain.
I've ran same combo on a 396 ci 375 hp engine with 350 hp heads car was fast, won a ton of street races, made good power upto 7700 rpms. But never compared the intake with another nor done any dyno testing, therefore I can't say it's a combo that works best.
Ah yes DV is Sending us over here. I believe he has alot of respect for you. People can tell when you are the real deal. He did tell people to subscribe to you because you are the real deal. DV he is a man based off of facts. As well as you Eric. Eventually, this issue will be resolved. I think part of thr issue is each engine type is completely different, and sometimes those subtle differences can have different effects regarding what restriction to power is effecting it. I do know for a fact however that vakve spring technology has increased dramatically the more time passes by. I believe even Darin Morgan says they ho can be gained by a lot just due to valve springs.
Port match hp gain is all dependent on the original match . Modern intake casting are alot better that thr old days depending on what you got. Im sure some hp gains on old mismatched things are upwards of 30 ho depending on combo. Wheras modern stuff is more like 7. Howeveit may not take into account a gain in port stabolity and the ability to maintain rpm? im guesing st thatthough havent seen any evidence of that yet.
It's kinda confusing but I kinda got it but anything helps. And obviously for sure it won't apply to everything and it depends for sure. Yeah I do see what your talking about on port matching mine did overlay on 1 side which I knew it was going to happen but height wise was fine. Even the stock victor Jr it overlay 1 side of the head and it was multiple ports not just 1 so I do wish manifold did start off smaller wide wize because I did measurements myself and went if it overlays a 220 head even though cross section is more important was I thinking what if you had a 180 head that is like a 1205 and you had a manifold that is already big at close to 1206 stock which I mean average guy won't pay attention to that or even care or probably won't do much at just a thought i just had.
But I will say my build everyone was like oh I bet that isn't much when doing everything like oh you do this it's only 5 or whatever I go ok what if it but you keep adding on all those 5 hp gains then it would be a big gain overall on my next build I am hopefully going to do more all out and better to have a more powerful and torquier engine so I can maybe compete better so I do believe in all these little gains.
Eric, I’m not sure why you don’t think your test did not represent a direct comparison. Your test with the non port matched intake and changed oil pan/system represents the baseline and the same setup with the port matched intake is a single change incremental. It would have been nice to see photos or sketches of the before and after port matching. When you find the intake is missing aluminum to port match can’t you blend out the port on the head side? Thank you for all the time you take to put out this data-I think that actually does make you a nice guy
it's not a baseline because the unported manifold was never run with the new oil pan. The 2 runs were,1: old manifold/old oil pan and 2: new oil pan + matched manifold.
Krusher no. I did old manifold old pan. Then old manifold new pan. Then the port matched manifold. It had already been tested with the old pan when it just wasn’t port matched.
Besides thinking that i have the skils to completely destroy as cast air flow thinking i can actually feel i created more horsepower than the science of the port design?
Off topic. Do you think a tapered 4 hole spacer(super sucker) on a dual plane would work if you knife edged the divider and basicly taper the outer sides of the divider to match the spacer? Asking for a friend......
Seven sounds alright, but what if you Port match the headers? What about minimal, or maximum opening of them? I know that you’re really busy, but it might be interesting to see your thoughts on this
Nope..you'd want a larger header than the exhaust port in the head . It's called reversion resistance...exhaust comes back and interferes with the next pulse going out. .it'll even go back into the intake manifold
Question, with 12.2 compression what's your dynamic compression? If it is 10.1 ish can you try 93 octane? I'm willing to donate some funds to see that Dyno test ? Does he have knock sensors on his Dyno. Let me know sir . Thanks 👍
@@WeingartnerRacing let me know it would be a great test . I have no problem donating for that test please let me know Eric and thank you awesome info 👍😎💪 probably running a little fatter as well as that timing sir
I do have a question why is that manifold already have a size that is almost 1206 size when there are heads that can be smaller than that so what makes the manufacturer do that especially for guys who buy a small head like a like a 180 head just for daily driving or whatever.
Its would be good to hear HP gains also as a percentage. 7hp/0.75%, I;m sure I'm in the minority but as a person used to euro 4 cylinder of sub 200hp it easier to quickly work out what a chance like this might mean for a engine I have. and to maybe a person with a more average v8 of 450 hp its more like 3hp.
7hp on a 700hp at 7,000rpm engine in his case, But if you do the right mods on your 2 litre engine, you can easily gain 10hp for next to free, especially if it is inefficient out of the factory.. The trick is to either do them as cheap no dollar hp when you are doing a standard rebuild, or getting the last few hp out of a full power engine.
When I do engines for my clients they are never willing to give up 5 or 7 or 30 or more. As you said, every combination is different. I say, why put all the money into an engine if you are not going to do the details.
@@WeingartnerRacing At that point, I let them start making payments. 🤕 BTW, I just seen DV latest video. I made a comment. I have been watching your videos from the beginning. Take care.
In my experience, port matching has a lot of variables that could easily make it worse more often than it makes it better. But at the same time, that doesn't mean it wont pick up power on a really good combination. The point being, the combination is far more important than port matching will probably ever be.
Авто/Мото
7hp can make the difference between winning and losing. I'll take it any day.
@@lollipop84858 because I race.
No it can't. Too many variables. Asphalt temp, tire compound and , jetting, the other guy has a cnc ported intake, how old is your fuel I your cell, he didn't screw the pooch on the light. Finally, he has corporate sponsorship and you don't. Or he has more. Or he's been in the game since his daddy's daddy's daddy and you spent a bunch of money on parts over the last 4 years.
See, too many variables.
@@mikes.1882yeah and if you were 7hp down you lost by .001 but instead you won by .001 cause that 7hp was the difference. Port matching is easy and doesn’t take to long for 7hp only a fool would leave it behind.
All the horsepowers add up, a few here and there add up to a lot at the strip
Many years ago I port matched some Holden GM cast iron heads to an original 4 barrel inlet manifold. On most ports they weren’t even close a few of the ports had 2/3’s of the port blocked as the head was left and the manifold was right in the shift. Just cleaning this up turned the motor into a screamer.
Luckily the inlet manifold is aluminium, so some welding was needed to help bring it to the heads.
Its the 7 here, 5 there, and so on that can add up. A giod tune is probably more important as long as the port alignment isn't just trash.
agree
@@lollipop84858 You build anything that stands out better than Joes?
Hes dead why trashtalk him or do y ou get off trolling everyone?
One of the most underrated channels on RUclips.
Intake port matching is a pain in the ass, but with the price of engines these days, there's no point in leaving anything on the table, unless it's a stock rebuild.
Thank you for your hard work, knowledge & time.
hey, even 7hp for a little bit of a tidy up is well worth it
Thanks for taking time to put this together. I appreciate all you share
My pleasure!
Im more suprised about the pan personally. Must of cleaned up the windage tremendously
I did my intake and exhaust manifolds since they are cast for twin turbos. It's worth it in my book.
@@lollipop84858 You are just another internet idiot. LOL You do you, and I will do me.
Hey Eric,
Tim here, not the most conclusive, but DID demontrate gains in port matching.....sometimes, on a given combo, the low lift flow gains CUZ its matched, gives the user more tq low which MAY be what they're after...i LIKE how you quanified ur findings to a given combo.....its SUPER important!!!!.....i got a Pontiac, i cant scream it to 7500.......so if i've port matched, my low lift (.400 and lower) are in play, it GAINS us NICELY!!!.....glad u set some parameters for ur claim......NICE JOB!!!!..and TY, as i've been a sub'r/follower for some 3 or 4 yrs now.....again, QUALITY content!!!.!!
@@lollipop84858 hahaha, pls, like i'm some authority???....i aint nobody......i just know Engines......and enjoy technical info to absorb, quanify, and use in my daily life and my shop!!
Great, informative video
2seconds in and I’m fkn excited to see some numbers on this 👏🏼. Always with the good content 🤘🏼
Thank you.
Great info again, thanks.
Thank you
It's what I would have said.
Fluid dynamics is complex . A smooth surface is not necessarily the best for fluid flow. Shark skins and golf ball dimples prove otherwise.
Thanks eric
Leave no stones un-turned !!!!
Good information thank for sharing
My pleasure
do you see these kinds of changes with a dual plane?
i also gather you would do this porting along with other intake porting tricks to fit the application to generate possibly more results?
Thank you for all you do, brother. Going to be ordering a set of heads and possibly an intake from you very soon. Looking forward.
@@lollipop84858 Yeah, I'm paying attention. First off, I am an experienced engine builder myself, and I do a lot of my own port work anyway, not the least of which is matching heads to an intake. Secondly, I already have an intake that may work for my customer's application, I'll have to see what Eric thinks about it when we expect the cam to the heads. I may port match it myself, or send it to him for an entire working over. Third, I'm just curious. What's it to you?
Spec, not expect
@@lollipop84858is lolipop your stage name?
@@shelbyavant5081 Dont respond to him hes a big time troll. Probably 12 yrs old
@@gordocarbo Ah, makes sense.
depends on the heads and intake,delta positive -delta negative..what keepers valve springs and retainer are you using on those to easily use a 800 lift cam ?
What’s your opinion on lifter valley stand pipes on sbc. I’d like to see a back to back dyno test of with and without them. Vizard claims something like 8hp gain.
Good power from the 540 NA
We ran bbc rec port intakes on oval port heads, worked great!.
7hp can be a glitch in the matrix.
I tried that on the dyno and it lost big.
worked "great" compaired to what?
I've ran same combo on a 396 ci 375 hp engine with 350 hp heads car was fast, won a ton of street races, made good power upto 7700 rpms. But never compared the intake with another nor done any dyno testing, therefore I can't say it's a combo that works best.
Ah yes DV is Sending us over here. I believe he has alot of respect for you. People can tell when you are the real deal.
He did tell people to subscribe to you because you are the real deal.
DV he is a man based off of facts. As well as you Eric. Eventually, this issue will be resolved.
I think part of thr issue is each engine type is completely different, and sometimes those subtle differences can have different effects regarding what restriction to power is effecting it.
I do know for a fact however that vakve spring technology has increased dramatically the more time passes by.
I believe even Darin Morgan says they ho can be gained by a lot just due to valve springs.
I have watched before DV said anything
Move on and touch grass
Can't wait to see the hulk 23*!
On a sbc if the min of the head is still smaller than the intake manifold port would it ever matter if it was matched?
7 is enough to move the average bear 35 mph on a go kart.
Port match hp gain is all dependent on the original match .
Modern intake casting are alot better that thr old days depending on what you got.
Im sure some hp gains on old mismatched things are upwards of 30 ho depending on combo.
Wheras modern stuff is more like 7. Howeveit may not take into account a gain in port stabolity and the ability to maintain rpm? im guesing st thatthough havent seen any evidence of that yet.
It would be cool to machine some various (thin) aluminum spacers to simulate some bad match ups and do the testing
Keep the videos coming!
Maybe someday.
It's kinda confusing but I kinda got it but anything helps. And obviously for sure it won't apply to everything and it depends for sure. Yeah I do see what your talking about on port matching mine did overlay on 1 side which I knew it was going to happen but height wise was fine. Even the stock victor Jr it overlay 1 side of the head and it was multiple ports not just 1 so I do wish manifold did start off smaller wide wize because I did measurements myself and went if it overlays a 220 head even though cross section is more important was I thinking what if you had a 180 head that is like a 1205 and you had a manifold that is already big at close to 1206 stock which I mean average guy won't pay attention to that or even care or probably won't do much at just a thought i just had.
Engine Masters changed oil pans test and did show difference
Yes the pan gained power. What I was saying was I don’t think a manifold change added to its power difference.
Port matching decals add 11.
Absolutely.
For some people 7 HP a lot .everything HP helps. when 1/1000 of a second counts
7hp was sorta surprising to me. Ill take that any day over someone else who overlooks it.
But I will say my build everyone was like oh I bet that isn't much when doing everything like oh you do this it's only 5 or whatever I go ok what if it but you keep adding on all those 5 hp gains then it would be a big gain overall on my next build I am hopefully going to do more all out and better to have a more powerful and torquier engine so I can maybe compete better so I do believe in all these little gains.
Let's get ready for all the "port match is good for 7 hp" comments on social media. 😛
7hp is free!! If i had an engine on dyno and it made 793 i would wished i had had that 7 hp
Eric, I’m not sure why you don’t think your test did not represent a direct comparison. Your test with the non port matched intake and changed oil pan/system represents the baseline and the same setup with the port matched intake is a single change incremental. It would have been nice to see photos or sketches of the before and after port matching. When you find the intake is missing aluminum to port match can’t you blend out the port on the head side? Thank you for all the time you take to put out this data-I think that actually does make you a nice guy
it's not a baseline because the unported manifold was never run with the new oil pan.
The 2 runs were,1: old manifold/old oil pan and 2: new oil pan + matched manifold.
@@krusher74 thank you I had not picked up on the fact that it was a different manifold on for the oil pan old and oil pan new test
Krusher no. I did old manifold old pan. Then old manifold new pan. Then the port matched manifold. It had already been tested with the old pan when it just wasn’t port matched.
What’s the cost of a port match on average?
Besides thinking that i have the skils to completely destroy as cast air flow thinking i can actually feel i created more horsepower than the science of the port design?
Off topic. Do you think a tapered 4 hole spacer(super sucker) on a dual plane would work if you knife edged the divider and basicly taper the outer sides of the divider to match the spacer? Asking for a friend......
I don’t know I never tested that.
@@WeingartnerRacing
Is porting or port matching worth doing on a low RPM tow engine? Max RPM is 5k.
I bet the Vic jr for my 302 is going to be worth more, idk. The ports don’t line up worth a crap.
I see DV has invited you for tea and biscuits, would love to see the 2 best tuners get together
Seven sounds alright, but what if you Port match the headers? What about minimal, or maximum opening of them? I know that you’re really busy, but it might be interesting to see your thoughts on this
Nope..you'd want a larger header than the exhaust port in the head . It's called reversion resistance...exhaust comes back and interferes with the next pulse going out. .it'll even go back into the intake manifold
Question, with 12.2 compression what's your dynamic compression? If it is 10.1 ish can you try 93 octane? I'm willing to donate some funds to see that Dyno test ? Does he have knock sensors on his Dyno. Let me know sir . Thanks 👍
I don't have knock sensor. It probably could run on 91 if I reduce timing. We don't have 93
@@WeingartnerRacing let me know it would be a great test . I have no problem donating for that test please let me know Eric and thank you awesome info 👍😎💪 probably running a little fatter as well as that timing sir
And the 7hp. Is peak only.
Average will make more difference in time.
I do have a question why is that manifold already have a size that is almost 1206 size when there are heads that can be smaller than that so what makes the manufacturer do that especially for guys who buy a small head like a like a 180 head just for daily driving or whatever.
Manufactures do a one size fit many approach. The 1206 is more common.
@@WeingartnerRacing oh got it I see
How does the flow vary throughout the intake port?
Thinking top vs middle vs bottom, or other factors that represent flow patterns. Particularly interested in dual plains.
Its would be good to hear HP gains also as a percentage. 7hp/0.75%, I;m sure I'm in the minority but as a person used to euro 4 cylinder of sub 200hp it easier to quickly work out what a chance like this might mean for a engine I have. and to maybe a person with a more average v8 of 450 hp its more like 3hp.
You will get more horsepower when you drive in cold weather
7hp on a 700hp at 7,000rpm engine in his case,
But if you do the right mods on your 2 litre engine, you can easily gain 10hp for next to free, especially if it is inefficient out of the factory..
The trick is to either do them as cheap no dollar hp when you are doing a standard rebuild, or getting the last few hp out of a full power engine.
When I do engines for my clients they are never willing to give up 5 or 7 or 30 or more. As you said, every combination is different. I say, why put all the money into an engine if you are not going to do the details.
Agree but some just can't do it or afford to have it done.
@@WeingartnerRacing At that point, I let them start making payments. 🤕 BTW, I just seen DV latest video. I made a comment. I have been watching your videos from the beginning. Take care.
@@lollipop84858 I'm confident I wasn't addressing you.
I wouldn't mind you to to put a vacuum pump on that engine with old sump verse new good sump and see what it does
like can u find a difference in sump verse vacuumed and a correlations see if breathing issue or sump issue or drain back issue location of drain back
I don't think my 4150 will run with a heavily ported 4500 😮
LMAO THE INTRO
31 horse from a oil pan and pump?? How? The flow ??
Yes. I did a video over it. Windage and power needed to turn the pump
old nhra stocker trick i learn drain qt oil out gain 10th
7hp is a ton, its already over 900hp.
More like 2 hp maybe
…what’s an “Elder Brock”….😂
My poor pronunciation
And Elder Brock, is Edel Brocks older brother....
@@shvrdavidprobably someone related to the crypt keeper david vizard😂
as for S.B.M. Victor 340 is very bad ports, they are made for 318s. and super victor just send it out for full race porting lol
Just like race fuel ... NONE ! But it alows the engine to spin more RPMs so the power goes up !
In my experience, port matching has a lot of variables that could easily make it worse more often than it makes it better. But at the same time, that doesn't mean it wont pick up power on a really good combination. The point being, the combination is far more important than port matching will probably ever be.