FAA under new pressure to examine size, safety of airplane seats
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- Опубликовано: 20 май 2024
- Airline carriers have been shrinking seats for years, prompting Congress in 2018 to order the FAA to set new standards to ensure passengers can evacuate in 90 seconds or less, but their testing was widely criticized. Now, as part of the FAA reauthorization bill signed into law, Congress is demanding a do-over.
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I’m tiny and even I find airplane seats to be ridiculously small. Come on. For what people are paying, they deserve more.
Yes, seats are too small. I am no fan of US US carriers. However when I first started flying in 1997, a ticket to Sweden was about $1100 in 1997 dollars. That same ticket can be regularly bought for less than $800 in 2024 dollars. Except for computers, can't buy anything for 30% less than it was in 1997.
Yep! Slim guy here and most are uncomfortable.
Exactly this. I'm 5 ft. Even *I* have no room. I can't imagine being 6 ft and cramming yourself into it.
Lol, yes thank you 😁, I basically made the same comment, I'm skinny and the seats are to small for me☹️
@@Ch-yz4ytYes! I’m 5’ & my spouse is 6’. I just happily give him as much space as I can. I now notice my own lack of space. There is nothing left to share!
We’re supposed to be able to evacuate in 90 seconds? Ain’t no way.
Agreed. Even in the best situation there is no effin way any commercial airplane is evacuating in 90 seconds. Not a chance.
To be absolutely fair, if everyone were to follow instructions, it would actually work. But the main problem is people want to take their crap with them. If it were me, I would make the standards 60 seconds or less, and require airlines to increase the pitch of the seats to accommodate this goal if the current pitches don't allow of this.
@@davidkingsley8940 "To be absolutely fair, if everyone were to follow instructions, it would actually work." No, it probably won't work. The seats are so tight anymore that people can turn and get out quickly. They will literally get stuck.
i very much doubt if any real plane load of passengers ever evacuated in 90 seconds. hell im questioning 5 minutes.
Hope you are not sitting next to a 300 pounder during evacuation
The people comfortable with the current seat standards are the AIRLINE EXECUTIVES and AIRLINE BOARD OF DIRECTORS no one else!!!!!!!
... people like the price that's why airline does it.
If more people buys busniess then airline will make more busniess size seat
AND they only fly first class. Only allow them to fly in the non-reclining back seat and see if they still feel that way.
@@truneilson But that's what you paid for. If you're in a "non-reclining" seat, you're either in the emergency exit (which by law cannot recline) or you're flying Spirit or Frontier (In the US). You get what you pay for. That's not the airline's fault you prioritized a cheap ticket over service.
It's also people who like the really cheap seats that won't be available if they reduce the number of rows. I know someone who is 6'2 and flies Spirit and brags about how little he pays to fly. I don't know how he tolerates those seats, but his entire focus is cost. He does all sorts of crazy stuff to avoid having to pay a cent extra.
@@konigstiger3252 Airlines are not perfectly efficient companies as your comment suggests. They could offer larger, cheaper seats by reducing their continually growing profit margins. This is where regulations could help, as they can set standards while market forces prevent airlines from passing the costs onto customers.
Throw in groups of people who are incapable of staying calm, being quiet, or follow any type of direction
Don't forget those that go back for luggage during an evacuation.
I think they working on luggage bins that will locked during evacuation, people still have their smaller bags under the 💺
@@TheBattleMaster100 All the passengers on the JAL plane incident were all safe BECAUSE, just like any other rule-obedient Japanese, they all followed the crew instructions (leaving their luggage and belongings then line up accordingly) and nobody was being selfish and creating panics.
I wonder if we could replicate what Japanese had done if the incident happened in America on a Spirit flight...
Bea el emms
The ones who panic and move in slow motion while telling everyone else not to push.
It's annoying that the "brace position" they tell people to get into in the event of an emergency is one that most can't do because the rows of seats are too close together. If you can't do the safety required steps then how is it safe? FAA needs to figure it out
I'm 6'3. One time I had an aisle seat on a Delta airlines and I physically could not fit my knees into the seat. The flight attendant asked me to move my legs but I showed her there's no way I could do it. Shrugged and kept going. Mind you I am a skinny and tall guy. I'm not even big by American standards. It's insane what they're allowed to get away with.
I have to pay extra on every flight. 6-3
i believe you. i had a friend who was slightly shorter than you... and her knees were literally jammed in to the seat in front of her. luckily she had an aisle seat so she could stretch out her legs. you shouldn't have to pay more to fit into a seat... especially... if it's something you can't control
I'm 5'6" and feel barely comfortable. Whenever I see you tall folks fold limbs to get into the seat, it reminds me one of contortionists folding themselves into a box.
At 6"4' I feal ya I can't even move most the time they made me sit in a emergency row just to fit
I'm 187 cm (6'2") and sometimes it is hell to fit in some seats. 🫤
Easy way to make it realistic for a cabin with 60 or more people,
1. Add senior citizens, children and physically challenged people.
2. Make the cabin dark, add smoke & a lot of other noises.
3. Tilt the cabin a few degrees and make some of the emergency slides not to work.
4. Tell everyone that the first 10 people out of the cabin will get 100 dollars each !!
You sir are a good engineer/analyst
Forgot to add one scenario, have a lottery where 10 passengers are selected to grab their carryon and allowed to keep the iPad or $100 inside if they make it out with the carryon.
@@skyhigh9474 thanks 😂
Don’t forget to add the Mortal Combat theme song in the background at the beginning of the evacuation.
Make sure to add obstacles in the cabin too, like everyone has a carryon plus huge bag that some people insist are not extra carryon luggage. And those bags have to obstruct the pathway for everyone. And also the test should have at least 2 screaming babies.
"50% of fliers are unhappy about leg room. " 50% baloney. 100%
As a flight attendant I hate having people squeeze in like sardines! Please change!! It’s disrespectful for passengers! I am 5’9” it is so uncomfortable
Yeah, that deregulating of the airlines has worked out well. 🙄
It’s almost as if we should go back to regulating. But politicians are are getting too much money from lobbyists and committees that they don’t want to 🤷🏽♀️
It was one of the Republicans happiest moments.
Exactly
@@siriusgd4753 Airline Deregulation Act of 1978: Democrat Congress and Jimmy Carter
Deregulation? What part of "Japan Airlines" and "Airbus plane" and "in Tokyo Japan" did you not notice?
Seats are too small and making people very uncomfortable for profit…traveling is torture now …fullstop
You must not travel a lot. Traveling is easy. People who don't know how to travel typically fail at it and create uncomfortable positions.
Given that boeing planes are literally falling apart and they are actively killing whistleblowers, the level of discomfort when flying doesn't really seem that important.
@@jamesc5751 You do know Airbus has had the same issues in recent months, too right? Delta had two A330s have cargo door and panel issues. Not to mention their issues with their airplanes having engines that keep needing to be shut down during flight.
@@erauprcwa Says the snobby business/first class passenger.
@@gamerboyx8243 You pay bare minimum for service and expect first/business class service. You get what you pay for. If you don't wanna pay for it, don't complain.
The FAA needs more authority in general. Airlines have monopolized, costs are higher, safety is worse, employees have less options, and airplane construction is poorly done by a greedy company.
Spirit + Boeing = match made in heaven!
@@honeytgb a match made to send you to heaven*
None of what you said is based on any fact or statistical basis.
@@honeytgb Spirit doesn't even operate Boeings
The plane in this video is an Airbus. This isn't simply a Boeing issue.
If you want comfort, the FAA is going to have to mandate a reversal of seat shrinkage (width)and increase peak. Oddly enough, doing so will eliminate the safety concerns. Strange how undoing the greed of shareholders makes the flying public safer and comfortable.
Greed man. GREED is in my opinion the source of all evil. Not to say money isn't important, but some can't seem to find contempt in what they have
@@TrainerAQI think you misspelled "content" but otherwise yes, you're spot on.
They wont do that, they will instead revise the 90 sec evacuation threshold to 900 sec.
The airlines are real a**holes for doing this to seats and people.
Didn’t know airlines are a charity.
They are not a “charity” but they really don’t care how they cram you into a seat like a sardine and use the cheapest seats they can buy, that feels like sitting in a concrete bench. They wouldn’t make all the money they make if it wasn’t for the flying public. The Least they can do is make it more comfortable and safe for their customers.
It’s the free market at work. Trust me, you don’t want a socialist form of government…
@@marcsantana7It’s COMPETITION and it has shown that people are more willing to shop by price rather than by seat size. The CONSUMERS have CAUSED this.
@@marcsantana7 You don't care either. Airlines for years have done things to boost more room in coach, American Airlines tried it and they lost business to the likes of ULCC and LCC. SO, if you want bigger seats, you have to pay for it.
When you book your flight are you going for cheapest fares or are you booking off of airline loyalty?
I remember seeing a video showing a potential way to get even more seats in an airplane. They stacked two rows on top of each other. It was absolutely ridiculous and I can't believe a human being thought that was a good idea. Also it's insane that while the average American has gotten bigger in size that they have been shrinking the seat width.
18 minutes to evacuate a burning plane... that accident could have been much worse.
And that was mainly Japanese people who follow rules and direction. could you imagine here in the US, I would put money on people worrying about their freaking luggage over human lives…or they would be blocking the way to get that TikTok post.
@@minutelizard3576 Or there pets, since some animals are allowed in the cabin.
A big part of that is the flight attendants didn't want to open the emergency exits despite the plane being on fire!
What they left out is that there’s a big cultural difference between western carriers and those found in eastern countries. I’m a flight attendant at a U.S. legacy carrier and while in training we reviewed multiple accidents and near miss incidents that could have been mitigated if more proactive action was taken. In Asian cultures a social hierarchy is more strictly enforced which results in cabin crew not being enabled to make high level decisions without input or direction from senior staff. In the case of aircraft evacuations, many flight attendants for Asian airlines have shown hesitancy starting a flight attendant initiated evacuation as they wait for the pilots to initiate the evacuation.
@@joshe5515 Regardless of cultural differences: 18 minutes to evacuate a BURNING PLANE. Their 'test' with able bodied people is nowhere near reality. Perhaps airlines shouldn't be like clown cars with more and more people stuffed in them. Airline deregulation was the biggest mistake in aviation the US ever made.
I'm 70 yrs 70-year-old female with minor disability. It is difficult for me to get up and stand after sitting for 20+ minutes. Also, it's necessary to balance myself with the seat backs to exit. 90 seconds I'm not even standing yet! As usual, Senator Duckworth is right on point.
At least 20 years overdue. No way a plane could be evacuated in 90 seconds.
Did the Titanic teach us nothing? Corporations will be unscrupulous about safety unless regulated to do more.
But, but, but... Republicans want "smaller government" translating to no safety oversight.
White Star had more boats than legally required.
@@captiannemo1587 Yes, so it tells us about under regulation.
@@captiannemo1587and an accident happened and unfortunately because of it regulations changed. Cruiselines would probably give you floaties if that’s all they were required by law to provide
@@captiannemo1587 maybe after the Titanic. However, Titanic was carrying 1/3 fewer lifeboats than people on board. There were originally 32 but it was decided they "cluttered up" the lovely decks of that "unsinkable" ship and removed.
Profits over everything here in America 🇺🇸
It's everywhere, not only in the US
Yup. We're in the downward slope of the empire cycle. Growth and conquering is over. We've gotten complacent, fat and lazy. Now it's the downslope that picks up speed. Every empire in history has adhered to this rule with very little exception. We face major reform and/or a completely different country, possibly within our lifetimes. The elites and nobles of our society have grown so rich it's incomprehensible.
All over the place but mostly in the United States *OF* America and not America btw
@@nicolasendara1166 Oh please. No one refers to any other part of the American continents as “America” and you whining about it won’t change that.
When you buy an airline ticket, are you looking for the cheapest price or do you have airline loyalty?
Another thing with the test is that the subjects have been told to expect an evacuation. They've allowed no time for a human response, emotion, or panic.
With some emergencies it seems like the flight crew at least keeps people reasonably calm, but they should account for injuries, as some severe turbulence has caused pretty bad ones, even 1 death I think just a few days ago.
The only way to change this is by having an alternative way to travel such as fast speed trains in the US/Canada. That will force the airlines to actually care about the passenger.
The population density and geography of the US is not conducive for high speed rail.
We have relatively high speed rail in the uk and budget airlines are still highly profitable because the majority of people prefer low cost convenience over comfort
@@johnp139we have packed interstates that we keep having to add more lanes to. Rail in general would benefit the US, high speed rail to certain places would also be nice.
Yup, they can have deathtraps that fall out of the sky everyday and when they fail the taxpayers will be forced to bail them out, and they know it. They have no incentive to even try.
The airlines are actively lobbying against high speed rail to ensure they remain the option for travel.
Good grief. It’s a no brainer that tighter, smaller, more crammed seats will slow down plane evacuation. You only have to observe how long it takes to deplane under perfect conditions after landing. You add disaster conditions, fire, panic, it’s a recipe for total loss of life.
What about all the crap people bring on the planes? That needs to be assessed
exactly 👍👍👍
Deboarding in no way replicates the evacuation process. If you paid attention during the briefing, all stowed personal items are to be left behind, no boarding ramp is provided and at least 3 more exits will become available… the nearest often being behind you.
Listening to the cabin crew is how you survive emergency egress. Ignoring them puts everyone around you at needless peril.
@@JetCityNinja I may listen to them and definitely leave the carry ons, but how great is your confidence that the majority of everyone else will listen and if you are trapped in the herd of non-listeners, you are “f’d”.
Yeah but statistically the data is on the airlines side. There’s 10M flights per year and around 200 land for emergency reasons of which an even smaller number are emergency evacuations. But even if we assume all 200 emergency landings are emergency evacuations as well, this means that with each flight there’s a 0.002% chance at the statistically highest end that it will culiminate in an emergency landing requiring evacuation. Statistically on any given random flight there’s a 99.998% chance that everything will be fine which is stronger odds than birth control. They aren’t gonna change anything with those numbers. There would need to be an exponential increase in the number of emergency evacuations to prompt the airlines to make changes. And that’s never going to happen given how safe air travel is, the data bears this out despite what the media wants you to think about Boeing…
When some people are crowded in like sardines, they can get very hostile. That is one of the reasons there are fights and arguments on many flights.
long overdue! Four armrests for six arms? Come on!!!!!
So you want less room on airplanes?
@erauprcwa Put less seats then it wouldn't be a problem
@@illegalopinions4082 Okay, less seats, means higher ticket prices.
American Airlines tried this and people didn't care, so they added the seats back and lowered the prices. It's an either or and people over the years care more about ticket prices than comfort and service.
@@erauprcwa should not be a choice. It's a very poor comparison. What it means is that people could no longer afford to fly for their once a year trip to visit their grandchildren for Christmas or Hanukkah. If that HAD TO be sacrificed, they'd rather suffer through the 6 hour flight. What kind of choice is that??
I can’t believe they actually need to be told this! Should be common sense to conduct a real life test. Not everyone is healthy m, able bodied, and under 60.
Yet recent incidents in the US have shown that airlines have been able to get the evacuation under 90 seconds in compliance.
@@erauprcwa You're an airline exec, an employee or own lots of stock in one or more airlines, right? Can't imagine anyone not in that position defending airlines these days.
Overhead bins should be mechanically locked shut during an emergency evacuation
The commercial air travel experience is nothing short of demoralizing.
I’m relatively short and nimble and most of the seats are difficult to get I. And out of even the premium seats. And the lumbar support sucks in every seat
My hips haven’t fit since I was pregnant. Premium seats have more legroom but you have to buy first class to get more width. I always have hip and back pain after a flight.
A closer to real life simulation should have participants sit for two hours before evacuation.
Sealing the overhead bins is essential. I was in an evacuation in Newark and at least a dozen passengers held up the evacuation by opening and taking things from the bins.
They also need handicapped people, injured (maybe people with crutches) and elderly people in there as part of the evaluation. They tested ideal situations.
Sealing the overhead bins sounds simple, but it can turn into a nightmare. If you lock the bins up during flight, passengers may want to reach up and grab something they left in the bins. You'll be calling the stewards and stewardesses over every time an overhead bin needs to be opened.
You could seal the bins during an emergency, but that requires an autolock mechanism with electronics leading into an area easily accessible by a steward/stewardess during an emergency to lock them. Even then, people will try to grab their bags and without understanding why its locked, will try to yank the bins open.
Imo, its better to not allow people to grab anything from the bins during an emergency. The attendants should be yelling this as people are deplaning during that emergency.
They need to try and recreate real fear, perhaps by pumping in carbon dioxide that would cause respiratory panic. In real evacuations people scramble over the seat rows, they block the aisles trying to find family members, or just shut down and don't do anything. The test participants should have blankets on their laps, some should have their shoes off, some should have bags stuffed under the seat, and all the other variables that mimic a real flight.
@@timkono5645 Maybe they could put locks on the overhead bins that only activate when the emergency doors open or when the pilot presses a switch as they are preparing to do an emergency landing.
Why are they even talking about bins and luggage. Flight attendants needs to emphasize get off don't open those bins at all. Common sense. If I was in a in evacuation situation and someone opened the bin. I would yell at them to just get off and shut it on them.
@@darkoxostar and they would probably physically attack you. People aren't logical in an emergency.
I quit my college theater job after experiencing a fire alarm where all the elderly patrons were unable to evacuate because the elevator shut down. Thankfully it was a false alarm due to a smoke machine and I stayed with them and reassured them. I gave notice the next day with a strongly worded letter to the director.
I stopped flying altogether a couple years ago. These airlines have stripped service down to the bare bones that these days literally every single thing about the flying experience is unpleasant. Starting with the long waits at security, then proceeding to the prison terminals that extort you out of your money for a $25 half of a sandwich, to the 3-5 hour delay your flight then experiences and then eventually cancels. Leaves you on standby and now you're stuck in the airport for like a day before you finally get on a plane.... just to be crammed in like a cattle car and subjected to the obnoxious odors of all the food everyone brough on the plane, then argue with Karen who is sitting in the window seat you paid extra for and argues with you because she assumed it would be fine if she took your seat so she coudl sit next to her husband, just take her middle seat in the back of the plane, its fine and a perfectly fair trade. Oh, now there's some mechanical issue with the plane so let's sit tight at the gate for a few hours waiting on them to fix whatever needs fixing. At this point you are an actual prisoner by federal law, prevented from leaving the plane even if you wanted to. I had this happen in Phoenix on a sunny day in July and the AC wasnt doing much on that plane, it had to have been 110 on that plane and everyone was irate, such a fun experience. Took someone getting heat stroke before they finally let people off the plane. Anyway, you've suffered through that, you're finally in the air, and because of the seats they installed on the plane, only 15 minutes in you're already cramping up and your back is already starting to hurt and you cant feel your left leg anymore... You get graciously handed a bag of flavorless pretzels and a small cup packed so full of ice that you only get one actual swallow of whatever they offer you to drink. You can never fly direct anywhere anymore unless you live in Dallas or Charlotte, so of course you have a connecting flight that started boarding 30 minutes ago and because you're not there, of course this is the one that is ON TIME. You miss it. Welcome back to standby. You get a bit more priority this time so you only have to wait another 4 more hours for your new connecting flight. Repeate the same onboard experience mentioned in the prior flight. This time, you land and then spend 2 hours at baggage claim waiting and waiting on your bag than never shows up. Guess what, they never put the bag on your new standby flight and it's still sitting in Dallas.
So that pretty much illustrates why I just rent a car and drive where I need to these days. With all the hassle and delays it's almost just as fast but at least you're in control of your destiny. It's often cheaper to drive too. I can't believe there was a time in my life where I actually used to enjoy flying. That was pre-9/11 though.
LOL, all the reasons I now take a train when I travel. Not that I travel much, but I did return a week ago from my first long trip in 6 years. My son and I rode the train overnight with a roommette for the first and last leg of the trip, rented a car for the second part, and rode coach on the train for the third part. The train back and forth from our home and car rental (for a week), was about the same as airfare for the two of us would have been - with no surprises at check out and allowed much more luggage for free. Although there was a slight delay for one part and a longer delay for another, the experience on board is completely different.
Airlines make it unsafe, expensive, and inconvenient to check bags. This means that people bring them in to the cabin. When's the last time you didn't see all the overhead bins full? Combine this with the fact that some people will insist on bringing their luggage with them in an emergency evacuation, and the airlines have guaranteed that more people will die because of how many more bags than necessary are in the cabin.
I’m on a Southwest Airlines flight right now, where the first 2 bags are free to check, still out of overhead bin space. People don’t want to wait for their bags or risk having the bags lost.
@@johnp139 I agree, hence inconvenient. Airport employees will steal them, and TSA will damage them.
I can barely get a full load of students to evacuate my school bus in that time. No one wants to leave their stuff behind and that really slows people down.
I flew last week and got physically ill from how small the seats were. I am a tiny woman. And I was wedged in between two huge gorillaz. They we're traveling together but knew there were so huge they could not sit t next to each other. So I paid the price for a full 5 hours. I was so sick by the time I got off of that plane from being so deprived of any kind of movement.
When I got off that plane I said I'm not flying again for a long f****** time. I don't know how that can be legal to force people into such tiny spaces.
This is great news. Flying is such a miserable experience these days. In the 90s, flying was like sitting in a lounge at a nice hotel for a few hours.
This!
The airlines are willing to gamble with passengers lives for the sake of profit. Such Greed‼️‼️‼️
There’s zero data to support your claims. There’s simply no safer way to travel than air travel…. quit living in a world of facts that doesn’t exist.
@user-uz5ko8sv2f While we're all thankful that such emergencies are rare, all it takes is one accident to demonstrate the dangers of putting profit over people. I for one would be happy if the FAA took a proactive approach here and prevent greedy airline executives from gambling with our lives.
@@bob2600 What incidents have suggested that airline executives are "gambling with our lives"?
It's a sacrifice airlines are willing to make.
@@erauprcwaYou clearly haven’t been paying attention to all the Boeing incidents that have been happening lately🧐
It is clearly obvious the airline seats are not safe.
How so?
You can't even properly brace yourself anymore 😂
@@neko7606 What's the brace position?
@@erauprcwayou’re supposed to bend over and rest your head on the seat in front of you with your hands on either side. Your head should down where your shoulder blades normally would be.
@@luthen4464 Yes, correct. Just wondering why OP of that comment thinks that a person can't brace anymore?
I’m only like 5’8 and 155lbs, but my shoulders/arms are like ~20 inches wide and don’t really fit in the horizontal space provided by a 16 inch economy seat, without hunching forward. IDK how larger people even manage.
This reminds me of when I was watching a video of how to change a baby for day care provider training when I’d already been an infant day care provider for over a year and a half in addition to raising my own son, and the scenario showed a roughly four-month-old baby who was completely calm and apparently just wet with no other babies to be seen or heard. I cracked up! I was like, “Any idiot could change a diaper under those conditions; I want to see you try to change a screaming toddler who has blown poop out their diaper while two other mobile infants/toddlers cling to your legs screaming too because they are hungry!”. 🤣😅😬
"Seat size and spacing did not adversely affect the success of emergency evacuation." LMAO!!!! I'm 5'5" and 140 lbs and airline seats are VERY uncomfortable! I dread a long fight.
All you have to do is watch how people get off a plane at the end of a flight.
It absolutely should. The greedy airlines shrinking seats to almost sardine-level compactness is not only cruel and inhumane, it’s incredible dangerous.
Please tell us their profit margins.
If seat sizes increase for the minority of people who actually need more space then all customers will have to pay more because bigger seats mean less seats meaning the value/price of each seat is higher.
@@comeonman1100 It hasn't always been this way. Pre 9/11 there was actually a lot more space. Why were they able to run a profitable business pre 2000 while still giving people a bit more space? It wasn't cost prohibitive to fly back then.
@@jercasgav, they weren’t able to run a profitable business. TWA, Pan Am, Eastern, People Air, just to name a few, all went out of business in the 1990s. There’s a reason that the seats got smaller. People didn’t want to pay the higher prices for the larger seats.
No joke. I rode on a UA flight today with only 12" of clearance to the person in front! I'm Small and this was claustrophobic for me.
Now that I’m retired and do not need to travel for business, I avoid flying as much as possible. It has become ridiculous and very uncomfortable.
I absolutely never thought about it from safety perspective. Oh my God we need to go ham on this! Everybody complain that you cannot get out in time to save yourself during some sort of air disaster
They should at least regulate the seat pitch. Otherwise, airlines and operators will take advantage of it to cram as many seats into a plane as possible (see RyanAir). In the NPRM (notice of proposed rulemaking) the FAA opens up the forum to "balance" the commentary to include airlines and operators. Naturally the operators will object to widening seats and seat pitch unless there are undeniable circumstances. This shouldn't be up for negotiation is the point.
They stupidly charge checked bangs they should charge carry one instead
I hope they plan to include the density difference between business class, first class and economy class density of passengers on a single airplane.
If you wanted to survive you should have paid for first class! /s
Try telling this to people who still try to grab their belongings
With a seizure disorder those tight seat pitches are a hazard for me and increase the possibility of me hitting my head
So, you pay more for a bigger seat, don't you?
@@erauprcwa I no longer fly anywhere that I can get to by other means. So yes you are correct if I do fly I have to pay more for it to be safe for me.
@@Gigi44_BookwormTake a boat
I'm glad! The space between the seat and the seat in front is so small I can't straighten my arms out. The width is also shrunken to 15-16 inches. Many people do not fit in 16 inch seats.
I'm 5'2 took a flight from Charlotte to Denver. I felt like I was packed in a tuna can, the seat size is super uncomfortable and definitely unsafe, how do you evacuate in such cramped conditions it's ridiculous
Finally, make the airlines more accountable please.
I'm 5'11'' with a puny office worker build, no one would look at me and think "thats a big guy." Yet my shoulders are still wider than any airline seat I've sat in over the past 10 years.
How about a section in the plane for families with loud kids?
AH
Or you could just bring earplugs or headphones.
Sure, if you let us self select. My preschooler is a great flier and we don’t want the noise either.
A person without their legs on won’t ever be able to evacuate in 90 secs. That’s obvious right? This statement does not help the argument for more room at all.
In recent years, I don’t recall being a flight that wasn’t 95% + full.
It’s genuinely painful to be in those seats for so long. I’m normal sized so it’s not even a size problem. Just the fact that we’re all so squished together for hours.
Some things to keep in mind: When you were in elementary school and had to do the fire drills, nearly everyone would be cool, calm, quiet, and walking in an orderly fashion. How long did it take from your classroom to the nearest/designated fire escape door in relation to 90 seconds?
Assume you have an aircraft that seats approximately 100 passengers (not including pilots & FA) and the standard is 90 seconds to vacate everyone off the plane using only one side of the aircraft (ie: exit through left escape doors, since the fire/hazard is on the right side of the aircraft). If we have 100+ individuals that need to vacate through 3 doors (front, middle, rear) that means there will be about 33-ish people going through each emergency door. Now you're supposed to wait until the person before you gets off the slide before you jump on it. Assuming it'll realistically take 3 seconds from the moment someone jumps on the slide to the point where it becomes free for the next person, times the 30 people that will be using that slide, and now you're already at the 90 second mark with people still in the aircraft.
On top of that, that standard no longer takes "The Human Element" into effect anymore. What do I mean by that? Exactly how Sully explained it in the film, that when the NTSB was re-enacting the incident, the pilots and ATC already knew exactly what steps to take, what headings to fly towards, and any other very subtle details that might not have been thought about, but added extra seconds to the response time. The human element was the difference between the pilots re-enacting the incident from being able to successfully consistently land at any nearby airport, versus them consistently crashing any option they've attempted outside of landing in the river, when a 30 second delay was added to the human element prior to any actions taken by the pilots.
Last point for me to make is, firefighters train regularly on donning their turnout gear in approximately 60 seconds (does fluctuate between departments), to performing other tasks like running hose and hooking it up to the fire hydrant/engine or clearing a room during blackout conditions (simulating there being no light, and room being filled completely with black smoke, making it impossible to see anything), and keep in mind that their standards are also relatively on the same time table, 45-90 seconds and they train regularly, just to maintain those monkey skills. Now take a random selection of people of all age groups, situational awareness (what about the dude sleeping, or person in the lavatory?), and composure levels like people how are level-headed vs though who scream and panic and don't allow the people around them communicate with each other to formulate a plan cause of this one Karen, and then what kind of organized chaos are we going to realistically see?
This i why I always upgrade to business because the seats in economy are so bad, but not everyone can upgrade and it's not fair to play with the safety of peoples lives.
About time!!! My flights in 1970s had more leg room and width in coach class than today's Business class that costs 4X more.
Question…….how much was the cost of a house in your neighborhood in the 1970’s? and how much is it now? How much was a plane ticket in the 1970’s? And now how much is a plane ticket now? Hint it’s cheaper now, and houses cost much much more now.
Something happened? Smaller seats lead to lower prices. Let me know if you find cheap home prices now.
I’m looking and can’t find any.
@@brawnbenson552 This issue is leg room and seat width in 1970 coach vs. 2024 coach ... are you really comparing housing costs to aircraft seat ticket costs? A long distance business class ticket from SFO to LHR today departing on Jun 9 via BA $8,333 one way and $5926 return for a total of $14,259. An inflation adjusted coach class ticket from SFO to LHR in 1970 on BA in June both ways was $5329. For the same amount of leg room it costs 3X more today than it did in 1970 inflation adjusted. Log onto British Airways and enter the dates and confirm for yourself. I was flying this route in 1970s so I do know.
Airlines in the US somehow barely make any money by their standards but somehow have the highest cost per mile in flight than any other country. Make this make sense?
i just watch my father use a plane this weekends he needed a wheelchair, no way he could get out in 90 seconds, there was a lot of disabled people on that flight
In an evacuation, you really think he's gonna be pulled off the airplane in a wheelchair? In an emergency he's being grabbed, picked up, and/or dragged.
@@erauprcwa Have you ever seen how wheelchair users board planes (in the US, anyway)? Most have to check their personal wheelchairs as luggage (which is a whole different mess of a problem, but that’s another topic), and then use an airline-provided wheelchair to get to the gate. Then they’re escorted onto the plane and moved from that wheelchair to an airplane seat. They don’t sit in a wheelchair during the flight. I’m pretty sure @dreadfuldonkey knows that and therefore already knows a wheelchair user would need to be carried off a plane during an evacuation.
A truer-to-life test should definitely include wheelchair users. Of all the flights I’ve taken in my 50something years, I remember only 4 that had no wheelchair-using passengers. One of those 4 flights did have 2 passengers who needed walkers. On some flights (especially the ones to Florida), I’ve seen up to 10 disabled passengers wheeled onto the plane during pre-boarding. I cannot imagine all of them making it off the plane in 90 seconds, even in “ideal” circumstances.
Examine the price too! Bumping people from flights because of poor planning.
They don’t care about the passengers they gotta make money for the shareholders, money, money money that’s all that matters
pretty sure thats why they exist. they need a way to transport passengers from point A to point B, which they are still doing at least.
You should be happy about that. If companies don’t make money, they don’t create jobs. And if they don’t create jobs what are you going to do?
We just flew on Southwest airlines last week. It was the most uncomfortable ride. I’ve had on a plane in a very long time. I totally get why I stopped playing with them along time ago. I am 5 foot five and weigh 180 pounds and I got stuck in the middle seat of people on either side of me weighed*** 30 pounds or more than I did and they were really struggling to fit in the seat. The lady next to me when she put her tray table down it was touching her belly but they packed us in there so tight we were like sardines. There’s absolutely no way in an emergency that anybody would be able to escape in a timely manner. People would die. Something needs to be done because they’re packing us in to make as much money as they can.
"Wade"??? I think you meant "weighed".
I can't get up easily from a cramped seat especially next to the window. I am tall.
It's seriously a problem for NORMAL operation. Emergencies??? HAH.
The tests need to be done by a third party. I have short legs and it feels like I’m sitting with my knees in my armpits. I HATE flying.
Seat sizes have shrunk but prices have risen. They care more about money than safety.
What about handicap and elderly people blocking the aisles ?
Yeah! We have had enough of their ripping us off for ever shrinking and more uncomfortable seats. It’s obvious they aren’t safe
just got back from traveling inside China. I took 6 domestic economy trips. The seat were spacious and reclined significantly! Also one flight was delayed to very bad weather, we were all given meal vouchers yo use😊
I had a horrible experience where I was between two huge people. Both took up a significant portion of my seat. Since then, I have plans to just get off the plane should this happen again.
I’ve also had this experience! I had a panic attack and hyperventilated from then body heat that emanated off of them and the hot air in the cabin. There were no open seats and the flight was 4.5 hours long as well as delayed leaving and arriving due to an airbridge problem. Totally ridiculous and the 2 obese persons were actually traveling together. When I asked politely if they would sit next to each other they sternly replied that they purposely booked an aisle and a window and that they wouldn’t switch. Next time I’m going to do what you suggest and demand a full refund on the spot! I will not be nice about it at all! I regret allowing myself to be subjected to that and will never again ever!
First try asking the flight attendant but not in front of the obese passengers. Walk to back of plane to ask. Do it before they seal the doors.
If rather they remove seats add extra seat space and then increase ticket prices to make up for that.
I have so much anxiety about plane travel - I started having panic attacks going through security and on the plane. I passed out unconscious from a panic attack since I was ready to get off and still had 2 hrs 45 mins left (5hr flight) in a middle seat. I weigh 115 lbs. The size of the seats is absurd and inhumane. I have refused to fly for years because of this.
The aisle in an airplane is too narrow to walk through fully face forward without knocking someone on the shoulder or arm. It's already a burden getting out of a plane under normal circumstances, can't imagine how it's like during an emergency. There should also be a limit to how many seats can be in a plane. Too many seats means that the plane gets more crowded and overall more uncomfortable, and it also means more people that need to get out during an emergency.
The CRUSH of seats is part of the problem of people going bonkers on airlines.
SHOULDER room also needs to be addressed. Current seats were tested by itty bitty female flight attendants. They need to put GROWN MEN in those seats to test them.
I think anyone who carries any carry-on luggage out during a emergency should be fined
My wife and I sre on our 70's and are basically forced to buy business class for flights of any distance. We are not oversized. This is the way the airlines used to be.
Anyone who’s ever been on a Shinkansen knows how comfortable travel can be when you prioritize the travel experience.
I’m 6’5” 240 lbs. I barely fly anymore because it’s ridiculous I’m forced to pay for an upgrade (the tall tax as I call it, which is often either very expensive or already booked) to not be absolutely miserable on a flight. I also make the person in front of me quite unhappy with my knees digging into them most the flight, and the flight attendants and rest of the passengers probably aren’t too pleased that one my legs sticks out halfway into the aisle.
Sidenote, I love how flight attendants just run me over with the food/drink tray as a sort of “he’ll learn his lesson if we keep hitting him”. Like, no, I just have no where else to reasonably put my leg, so just let me know when you’re coming from behind so I can move it for you.
I'm surprised the airline lobbyists haven't squashed this.
lol you think they dont have any involvement? It could be that they where the ones that gave the guidelines on how to do the testing the first time..... They are everywhere!
I look forward to seeing the results of this test
“They’re known as toddlers” is the truest statement made.
Just flew 10 hours from Dallas to Spain. Absolute misery for a 6 foot tall human.
Don't forget noise. You need to have a whole bunch of people talking at the same time. Even though the crew might be speaking loud enough, understanding a single word is impossible. So assume most passengers won't actually get any instructions.
Anyone who’s ever gotten off an airplane knows that people mess around way too much anyway, real testing should include weighted under seat bags, should include people who are NOT ablebodied, if they need to, take a random person and splint a random joint for the day. Make sure you recruit larger people and taller people. Also compensate these folks for their work and finally, part of cabin crew training should be evacuation of a full airplane of random volunteers who are given significant airline perks for coming and completing the exercise. Not only will cabin crew be better equipped in a real emergency, you’ll eventually have random on the plane who’ve been through an evacuation drill and can be of help to the general public in an emergency. Another demographic to include would be police and fire trainees and their families, be careful because many are more than averagely physically fit.
You think volunteers will behave in more realistic ways when they are compensated by the airline? You don't think that will make them more likely to feel they need to make the airline look good? I don't understand that reasoning.
I hope they include different body sizes as well as differently-abled, seniors and children.
How about the health safety of cramped seats?
“Depends on congress…” love how when normal people get hurt they’ll get to it eventually but if congressmen are inconvenienced now it’s a problem.
I’m a small person but flying transatlantic for over 13 hours in the current spacing on planes is like survival of the fittest.
It is also the seat width as well. The Airbus a350 is too narrow for 10 seats across. Even with Airbus internally widening the newer Airbus a350, by 4 inches, the plane is still narrower than the Boeing 777. I thought that flying on the Boeing 777 is crammed. I still to fly on the Airbus a350. Most airlines put 9 seats across on their Airbus a350’s. I love flying on the Airbus a380 since the cabin is around 3 feet wider than the Airbus a350 and more than a foot wider than the Boeing 747. The Boeing 747 is more comfortable to fly than the Boeing 777 with 10 seats across. I last flew on the Boeing 747 in 2017.
Only low cost carriers will utilize the 10 seat row. I’ve never been in any long haul aircraft more uncomfortable than the 777.
This is WONDERFUL! I don't fly that often, and if airlines end up with fewer seats, you KNOW the price of a seat will go up and up! But, the changes that have happened are just crazy.
That test really doesn’t match a single flight I have been on in a decade. All flights full, seats cramped, and the worst evacuation training on the biggest wide-body planes. (I am the odd one that pays attention to the flight attendant… hoping they will throw in humor)
31” needs to be the minimum
Imagine being in a window seat, and the people next to you are incapacitated. You gotta pull yourself out of your narrow seat, with minimal legtoom to do so, and crawl overthem.Of airlines are all held to more modern seat requirements, they wouldn't be trying to squeeze in as many seats as possible.
They need to go back to the 70s where it was like flying in your living room
Just flew back from Honolulu to Detroit. Straight shot, 9 hrs. It was the most living room like plane we flew on for our entire trip. We felt totally comfortable even though it was a long haul for this ol guy. The other planes were like riding in the school bus when I was a kid. Paid extra for Comfort + with Delta. Only time the Comfort + was felt on the ride home. Other than that, it was cramped and uncomfortable. Out of Detroit we even smelled exhaust fumes. Is that normal!!?? Lol!
@@user-hu2jn7yt6gthat smell is most likely what you would smell on either a brand new plane or the plane may have been replaced with new engines recently.
@@user-hu2jn7yt6gor could be hydraulics doing their magic when the landing gear comes up or the flaps
Are you willing to pay significantly more for ticket prices? If the airlines cut seat size to make more space, they will need to increase ticket prices to maintain their profit margins…
Remember when it was somewhat common to be on a full-size jet with like 10 other people? The airlines didn't care about efficiency back then, and the ticket prices reflected that.
Especially for overseas flights. Always sucks to be stuck like that for 14-15 hours straight