How airplane legroom got so tight
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2023
- And why it isn’t regulated - yet.
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When you’re flying, there’s one thing you want to be above all else - comfortable. (Well, besides safe, of course!)
Whether or not you’re comfortable is determined by a slew of factors, but none draw more ire than seat pitch - the fancy term used to describe the distance between where your seat begins and the seat in front of you ends. You probably know it as legroom.
Legroom is a precious commodity, and airlines are aware of this. After all, there is a finite amount of space on planes. In order to get the maximum number of people onboard, you have to either innovate - like by designing slimmer seats - or you have to shrink the seat pitch. Airlines have done both. Plus, they now give you the option to spend some more money to upgrade for more legroom, allowing you (and your wallet) to choose how comfortable you want to be.
If you want the cheapest flight, then you have to be willing to endure the slimmest seat pitch. If you’re willing and able to pay more, then you can feel the comfort of yesteryear, when seat pitch was way more luxurious.
Though there have been legal efforts to come up with minimum seat dimensions, there are no current regulations on seat pitch. For now, it’s still up to airlines to decide their own minimums, while hopefully enticing you to upgrade. Check out Vox video team's latest to learn more!
LINKS:
FAA Study on how seat dimensions impact safety - www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/fil...
History on the DC3, aka “the first airplane in the world that can make money just by hauling passengers” - airandspace.si.edu/collection...
Nick Rupps paper on airplane amenities - papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...
Research on how and why airlines unbundled - link.springer.com/article/10....
See how much the average flight from your city cost years ago with the Bureau of Transportations historical statistics - www.transtats.bts.gov/Average...
Read the reasoning behind the court's decision not to regulate seat sizes based on safety - www.cadc.uscourts.gov/interne...
The Washington Post breaks down Sen. Tammy Duckworth’s bill, and why she hopes for a redo of emergency evacuation procedures - www.washingtonpost.com/transp...
Travel is back in a big way this summer. Vox’s first-ever travel guide is answering some of your most pressing questions about travel: www.vox.com/e/23499975
Vox is an explanatory newsroom on a mission to help everyone understand our weird, wonderful, complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. Part of that mission is keeping our work free. You can help us do that by making a gift: www.vox.com/givenow
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This is one of those rare times when I'm grateful to be 5'0". Legroom is almost never an issue for me. Now, reaching the overhead compartments, on the other hand...
Ha ha . But 5 ft is too small ..can I carry you
hes probably just a child i am 5,2 ft ine 13
@@M3ganwillslay
@@poxekk nice .I was 6'2" when I turned 15
hopefully you are able to find other passengers who are willing to help you with the overhead bins
@@poxekk Haha! I wish. No, I'm in my 40s -- I'm just short. Most children are taller than me by the time they're 12!
As a really tall person this is becoming really problematic on low cost flights.
how tall?
but profits though, business is booming.
@@ishredder4006I applaud capitalism, but my circulation is cut off 😣
You won the genetic game. Accept very small defeat.
Yep. I’m 6’2, just came back from vacation in Florida on Spirit a couple days ago. I have long legs and both flights coming and going were extremely miserable bc of how cramped it was.
The year is 2073, seat pitch is 20 inches, seats are modified so that passengers sit in the fetal position, when you press the help button a flight attendant runs from first class and punches you in the face, lots of people say you get what you pay for, it's consumer choice after all, FAA still hasn't completed their safety investigation.
I pray that we have till 2073. Honestly I'd be shocked if this isn't the reality by 2035.
How about standing seats 😂 and we're strapped in with over the shoulder restraints like rollercoasters! Oh boy
@@timg2655 there was another comment saying we should do back to back seats like trains, having 2 people facing 2 more, and to stop them from crashing into each other, they suggested you just put on a headstrap to tie your head to the chair 🙃
Your comments of flight attendant runs from 1st class and punch you in the face kept me laughing for the past 2 minutes
a correction:
seat pitch would be the distance between where your seat begins and the next seat begins, or between where your seat ends and the next seat ends, or between any two fixed, matching points on adjacent rows. the graphic shows it correctly.
seat pitch is more than the legroom -- it's the legroom plus the depth of the seat
Thanks. Was confused with the discrepancy between the animation and what he was talking about.
Well he did say it was colloquially called legroom, which could imply that the characterization is not entirely accurate
@@eliforp715 No matter how colloquial or formal of a definition of "legroom" you use or how colloquial or formal of a word you use for that space, the seat pitch will be a substantially longer length than the length the space the video is focused on
Small seats aren't unsafe just in the case of an emergency. They're unsafe for many people to even sit in for long periods. I'll never forget when I got a knee injury from the person in front of my trying to recline their seat into mine the entire flight. I wasn't able to adjust my legs at all, so for hours I had acute pressure applied to a small section of my knees. I had pretty intense leg pain for a few days limiting my ability to walk until I recovered. It didn't require any sort of emergency for those seats to result in injury.
Boohoo my feet hurt...
@@b_hav_6365you’re so edgy bro I’m jealous of you
I find it astonishing that when I flew with Japan Airlines, they had more comfortable legroom than with any of the American carriers in regard to their international flight configuration. Especially considering that the Japanese people are on average smaller than Americans, yet they give out more legroom? Also that the Japanese aviation market is one of the biggest in the world.
was it an international flight? they tend to be bigger planes when compared to a domestic flight.
Do also put into account ticket price difference
Japanese are more considerate than Americans.
@@lauraqueentint Both Japan Airlines and Korean Air have 33 inch seat pitch for long haul flights which is above the 31 inches on American Airlines. The extra legroom doesn't come free though, Japan Airlines in particular is quite expensive. Nobody is giving out extra legroom for free
I flew Japan airlines from YVR to Kuala Lumpur, Early June 2023, econ about $1700. It was $500 cheaper than everyone else. The cattle class seats were excellent, there was tonnes of room and was comfortable. 9/10 for experience and would do it again.
I’m 6’4 and flying coach is getting pretty difficult for me. Anything more than 6-8 hours and I’m incredibly sore and my sciatic nerve starts to hurt with lower back pain. Plus, when I fly my knees are literally touching the seat in front of me and I find myself having to adjust my seating position multiple times in the flight to be even a little comfortable
I think Vox should make sure to link this with their previous video on deregulation of the airline industry and discuss how airlines continue to exploit workers despite bail outs and high profits.
What high profits? Airlines lost massive amounts of money due to the pandemic and have only just become profitable - at a measly 1.2% net profit. A savings account is more profitable.
They're getting bailouts because they are not profitting. Airlines operate on paper thin margins despite all the stuff they do.
@@rpenm wow those poor airlines, i bet 2 years of breaking even thanks to government reimbursement & massive layoffs will really make a dent in that previous half century of massive profit
Really hating on deregulation? You think that only rich people should be able to fly?
@@ericpixley4594 how you are able to connect LESS regulations with things being GOOD for the 99% is beyond me
So basically being short is a huge advantage in air traffics
Yeah, small people in economy that only thing that could annoy them is other people.
and skinny
@@xuxon24Not to diminish the agony of no legroom, but short people have discomfort! The headrest shoves our heads forward giving such a crick in the neck. We're not able to reach the overhead racks safely, if at all, nor the overhead air controls with the seatbelt on. And our legs don't reach the floor - cutting circulation and increasing the risk of DVT. So it's not really perfect for anyone!
Except sometimes when it comes to reaching to put bags in overhead compartments
Not at all. Being short is also being smart thooo... you got the pity, i bet. Try to ask for help. Easy.
This is why rail travel is important and preferred way of travel for distances where the total travel time is similar to the total travel time of airlines. Trains continue to have copious amounts of space including the table seating even in regular coach class.
I just took a near 24 hour Amtrak trip across the country and my God it was INFINITELY more comfortable than the 4ish hour flight to get back home. You could recline your seat back to laying down without disturbing the person behind you at all, tons of legroom, a comfy dining car with decent food, way cheaper tickets than a plane, 2 free checked bags... Honestly kind of life changing - I just wish we had high speed rails in the US rather than the passenger and freight trains having to share the same tracks
As stated above as long as you travel off peak and in older cars this it the case. New cars take all the hateful things about air travel and make them worse. When are we going to get sick of being trickled down on?
@@aw714524 hrs is just easy too much if you ask most people. I would rather sit with less legroom for 4 hours than 24 hours train journey(non American here)
Just way too much*
I would like to travel by train, if it wasn't substantially more expensive and didn't take much more time. Nearly every trip i have taken i checked if rail travel made sense. It did only once.
I flew on a cheap african airline that used an old plane from the 90's with the original old seat layout. I was shocked how much more leg room there was when compared to modern aircraft interiors
THANK YOU for using metric units! not having to do quick mental conversions or simply ignoring whater units are mentioned makes it much more enjoyable to watch and i think it doesn't a looot more work on your side
I've always thought the reason why decades ago flight was more spacious and luxurious is because it was also more expensive. There was no issue with legroom back then, because cheap flight didn't even exist to begin with. I believe this is the case because it makes sense.
This is true. I remember watching another video, I think by Wendover, that said adjusted for inflation seats in the 60s were like $1500. So only for the wealthy.
Before the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978, the Civil Aeronautics Board directly controlled various aspect of commercial aviation such as routes, schedules, and fares. Because of this, the airlines were not allowed to lower their prices in order to attract customers. Thus, the way airlines distinguished themselves from their competitors was to offer "quality waste" through ostentatious amenities. The fact that the video fails to discuss this crucial aspect of the airline industry is stunning.
@@dereklenzen2330, exactly this... Such an oversight.
@@emma70707 I thought we wanted LESS government in business?
@@dereklenzen2330 its Vox, what do you expect?
Like Chris, my legs are always against the seat in front of me. (6 foot 1)
If they recline their seat, my legs get trapped between the sides of the seat, meaning I can no longer get out at all, instead of having to half stand to rotate my body to get my legs out.
Seems like whatever study they did was so incompetent or over-extrapolated they did not even test this.
I’m also 6’1” and have long legs. On any long haul flight I prefer to recline that way I can kinda cram my feet under the seat in front and lean back a bit and it feel a lot less like being a pretzel vs having both my hips and knees at 90 degree angles
@@maimee1 i wouldnt be surprised if the congress and whatnot were lobbied to not pass the bill.
You have the option to pay more on many carriers if leg room is important. If you go for the lowest fare that's what you'll get.
@@johniii8147 yea we know dude. We just saw the video. Maybe if I had stacks of money lying around I’d consider it.
6'5" here... I hate flying and am almost always forced to pay for a premium economy seat, hope that I get assigned an exit row, pick an aisle to stretch my legs into that space for a bit, or suffer the shrinking seat pitch pain.
My boyfriend is also 6’5”. We haven’t flown on a trip yet. I’m sure when it happens he’ll want to pay more. 🤷🏻♀️ I wouldn’t want him to be uncomfortable for the length of the flight.
You won the genetic game. Accept very small defeat.
@@matrixace_8903are you just commenting this on every tall person’s comment? are you insecure about your own height or something??
@@cosmosisrosechill out, maybe he is idk 5'5" and yes It really is a comparable advantage over the long run excluding back pain of course
What's even worse is that you have to pay extra for each flight SEGMENT! and then with the delays/cancellations, you could be put onto a different flight/plane and end up smushed. Yeah, you will eventually get a refund, but doesn't help my aching hip.
It is really starting to be painful, to the point that it influences my decision on whether I really want to take the trip at all.
Flights have definitely gone downhill since 9/11. The airline leg room problem has gotten so bad that I (6’5” - 1.95 m) am either forced to pay significantly more for a coach ticket or suffer for the length of the flight. And, it’s not just bad for tall people - anyone with large hips will also have to deal with incredibly narrow seats.
But you want the lowest fare right? Well that's what that leads to if airlines are going to stay in business. You do have the option to pay more for more space. That would be a no brainer for me If i were that tall.
@@johniii8147if you were tall then you'd realise that paying more just to not suffer isn't that great of a thing
On a side note, giving more space for legs wouldn't hurt any air travel company
@@tuluppampam Yes on an airline you DO have to pay for more space if you need or want it. And you're wrong it won't hurt profits of an airline if they gave more space for the same low price vs charging more for more space. People want low fares, well the cost of that for an airline to break even or make a profit they have to put more seats in. Basic economics. The reality for economy is people choose 1st on price and second on schedule. It's like any other industry you get what you do or do not pay for.
@@johniii8147 airlines wouldn't break by simply giving enough legspace for taller people, as they make a lot of money anyway
They'd earn a bit less but that's not necessarily what would happen, as perhaps people would prefer such an airline over the others due to the extra comfort
Even then, it's essentially discrimination against tall people because they're tall, and you're saying that tall people should just pay more to get what shorter people get for less
It's not as simple as "less capacity=less profits": there are other factors
@@johniii8147 low fares shouldn’t mean high suffering just because I’m not 5’8”.
The real problem is the horizontal space between seats. The seats are narrower than my shoulders and I have to either turn partly sideways or scrunch my arms in the entire time. This is even worse when the window seat is too close to the sides and the curvature of the plane ceiling pushes in on you. My abdomen fits within the seat alright, its just that my shoulders are about 23" wide and airline seats are 18" or less
I have to sit sideways, too, with my arms pulled in. Really uncomfortable on a four-hour flight.
That boarding pass at 5:11... Rome, Spain.... DUDE
Ikr
Nice catch!
American channel. What do you expect 😂
And these are the smart americans
@user-rx9bo6lh6e -- It could be some Vox humor 😉 The cartoon boarding pass pops up during the line, "In the past, everything would be bundled together in your ticket price." and Rome invaded the Iberian Peninsula and its provinces and called it "Hispania", ruling from 218 BC - 472 AD ⚔
I really like my height (5'8", 173 cm). It’s almost dead on the global average height for a human (172cm), so the world is built for me; I can reach everything but also fit everywhere (my weight is also pretty average). However, the super thin seats have zero lumbar support, and I was born with a defect in that part of my spine. Flights longer that about 3 hours put me at a 5 on the pain scale (broken ribs is also about a 5 for me). I actually fainted from the pain the one time I flew transatlantic. So yeah, I would be very supportive of a bill that accounts for more disabled and older passengers
Yes, that tall, older gentleman in the beginning showing how his knees press up against the seat in front was also the only one that actually had the back of his neck at the correct height for the neck support on the seat back!! So the height of the seat back design means that shorter people like myself cannot comfortably use the seat for longer periods of time without reclining it.
You can't bring a pillow?
@teagan_p_999 I can, but with the pillow thickness needed, I no longer fit, and my knees get crushed
9:00 yes, reclining the seat does impact leg room. Having long legs your knees are positioned further up and against the seat in front.
Yeah, also how did this guy luck out and not have the person in front of them recline the seat? 9 times out of 10 the person in front of me recline their seat.
There is definitely an aspect of airlines trying their hardest to stuff more seats in wherever they can to make more money.
I flew coast to coast non-stop last year, and we intentionally got the seats in the emergency exit row because I'm 6'2", and as we understood this row to have more leg room, and the seat diagram when we booked the tickets seemed to confirm that. However, when we boarded the plane, it was pretty obvious that they had shoehorned an extra row of seats where that space was supposed to be, and that row actually had LESS leg room than the rest of the plane.
This is why I'm a train person. If we ever actually got high-speed rail in this country, I'd never fly domestically again.
Hmm that doesn’t sound like you sat in an exit row then. Maybe it was a bulkhead row?
Being 196 cm (about 6'5'') myself, I massively prefer taking trains over cars, coach busses, and planes, they're the one place where I actually get a decent amount of legroom, especially here in switzerland.
If there were less seats on the aircraft then tickets would be more expensive. It’s econ 101, supply and demand. I would much rather pay for a cheaper ticket for less leg room than pay a couple hundred dollars more for a couple more inches between me and the seat in front of me. If it irritates you that much and you have no problem paying more then start sitting in Business class.
I was a train person too until I had the horrible experience with the new and improved passenger cars. I understand holiday travel, I understand keeping things with high volumes of humans clean is challenging, but you couldn't move in these seats. You could not lean them back so had to sit in a less than 90 degree angle with no foot rest and no electrical outlet that could be reached.
EVERYTHING that made rail travel blissful had been removed.
I swore to never ride that line again but family passing had me making an unplanned trip. Thankfully in a low volumn time and an older civilized car.
I have taken to being extremely grateful and extremely silent when I enjoy something now. No more surverys on how I liked the product or service. They will either take it away, triple the price or find a way to make it sticky and itchy.
Yes. I'm the same height with super long legs (over 40" inseam) and was furious to find I was charged more for the reduced exit row leg room! So now I reluctantly don't fly unless I can go first class- level seating. Even business class doesn't cut it. It's unfortunate, because I'd fly more if I could do it without pain in my kneecaps or my pockets.
Incidentally, I detest flying Southwest because I can potentially pay a bunch more and still have someone get the comfy exit row seats ahead of me. So annoying! Put me on Delta or United where I get a cushy seat and measurable leg room guaranteed for my money.
When i started flying, around 2009 they would offer you emergency exit row when you were tall and checking in. It seemed like an unspoken rule that those were for tall people as it just made sense. Now you have to pay extra and its commonly populated with older people who definitely arent fit and able to assist in an emergency. When its $10 or so extra im happy to pay, but some airlines you have to essentially upgrade to premium ecconomy which is often $50per leg and just doesnt make sense. It's annoying but it's also not the end of the world, it really is first world problems.
It makes perfect sense if it's important to you. You get what you do or do not pay for.
@@johniii8147 Tall people don't really get a choice in it being important to us, it's not like it's just a nicety to have that leg room, our legs literally don't fit and are often sitting out in the isle where it's pretty common to have them hit by the service trolleys etc.
In saying that, being tall has a lot of dramas in day to day life, and a lot of positives, this is just one of the issues and can't expect the whole world to revolve around a relative minority so you just put up with it.
@@inertiaMS Like I said you have your option to pay for it if it's a challenge for you. We all have our challenges, doesn't mean you get it for free and you get that. The point is you do have options, just depends on what you value more.
I get you though. My husband is almost 6"5 and always bumping his head on stuff. He still hasn't quite learned a lot of the time and bumps his head getting out of his truck. LOL..it's kinda funny
I just bought (well my work did) 'economy plus' exit row seat today for $84 (each way). At 6'8" it is PAINFUL to sit in economy seats (my knees are literally jammed into the seat in front of me, usually a metal bar that holds the seat pocket).
@@phtofl Good that's smart. Even out of pocket it would be well with $84 each way.
y’all gotta realise flying back then was 10x more expensive than nowadays
Exactly
IIRC they used to have pianos and bars up there
Yeah. Now planes are like the new Greyhounds. And with the amount of drama that goes down with frustrated passengers these days... might as well be. I feel for airline and airport staff the most honestly.
Ye, even if you don't count for inflation
finally someone said it
I'm literally 5'3" and even I've been on planes before where my knees have been touching the seat in front. It was incredibly uncomfortable and it's made me particularly sorry for taller people who have that experience on every flight they take ever since.
You forget about Southwest. All their planes average 32 inches (except for exit rows) and outside of early bird and priority boarding still have bundled fares
The choices for long distance travel are:
1. Fast
2. Comfortable
3. Cheap
You only get to pick two from the list
Countries with high speed rails laugh at this comment bcoz they get all of 'em
@@foudremy1514 trains still can't get you across the Atlantic, unfortunately.
@@Shreyas-S yes, I'm well aware of that. I'm talking about domestic flights which people use more frequently than trans-Atlantic ones
@@foudremy1514 yeah, I guess that's still true.
Do tell me what the Cheap and Comfortable option. I'd love to know. Because it's not trains, that's for sure, those seats are just as bad for leg room. And train cabin hallways are ridiculously tiny.
There is no Cheap and Comfortable option for North America to Europe.
At 6'4", there is nothing worse than someone reclining their seat - particularly if they don't check with you first but instead just slam back (which happens a lot). The pressure it puts on the knees can be unbearable on a long-haul flight.
Why would you expect for people to check with you? You pay for the seat; you would normally just expect to do whatever you want with it. And adjust it without asking for permission to other people. That sounds off. I am sorry about you not being able to cram into modern tiny airplane seats, but you shouldn't expect people to notify if they want to adjust their seats.
@@MrKento111221 Speaking as another person around that size- the seat literally slams into my legs. My legs are already touching and getting pressure from the seat, then additionally having someone slam it further back physically hurts. This isn't a discomfort or claustrophobia thing, it's literally painful and did actually once dislocate my knee, and I have no option to do anything about it, even turning diagonal still hits the chair in front. I can't even imagine for a taller person. At the barest minimum if you're going to recline, at least check if you're dislocating someone's knee for your minor comfort difference
@@MrKento111221 When you are in a cramped space it is common courtesy to check to see who is behind you before slopping the chair back...you know those old fashioned things called "manners" that make the world a more genteel and pleasant place because we all take note of each other???! I am a woman at 5'4" and I actually care about the comfort of my taller fellow travelers...and in exchange they tend to help me when I am too short to reach things! Makes life nicer yah know to have consideration.
Dont want to make this a whole debate so this will be my last comment, but unless somebody first approached me and told me about their problem, there is no way I would actively ask the people around me for permission to use what I am entitled to use.
Again, I understand the problem you are describing and would most likely help you in need. However, it seems weird to expect other people to ask for permission for adjusting their seats. Lately I have been on a lot of international flights, even having a very long one on Sunday, and you will never see people turning around and asking for permission to the person on the back to adjust their own seats back and forward. It even sounds very chaotic.
And finally, if I knew that I just outright didn't fit in those seats I would be obliged to buy the extra room. My knee is worth more than the extra 50 bucks.
@@MrKento111221 It’s not asking for permission - it’s forewarning you. That’s all. You’re physically moving an object toward another person - even if you did pay for it. So it’s just about letting them know a moment before what to expect. That’s all. This is something we do in society all the time. And to your point about paying $50 for the better seats, that’s not always an option - particularly on the smallest planes.
As important as seat pitch to passenger comfort is seat width. The 17 inch width of economy class seats was established by Boeing in 1955, when people were much thinner. Airbus uses 18 inch economy class seats and the A220 is most comfortable of all, with 18.6 inch width seats in economy.
Reclining definitely takes away legroom. I'm like Chris there, there are zero inches between me and the seat in front, and I physically feel the pain of someone reclining the seat in front of me.
If airlines are going to be cheap on legroom the least they could do is make it impossible to recline seats in economy.
The person in front of my simply cannot recline their seat, as I'm already pushing into it with my knees when it's upright.
Absolutely
Pay more
I'm 189cm and have never noticed appreciable difference, and always been able to find a comfortable angle. Maybe it's different for different carriers, my experience is primarily with Qantas, AirNZ, Etihad, JAL, Emirates and ANA.
Tammy Duckworth has an amazing point. People with mobility issues or leg/knee braces will need extra leg room.
Back in June, I had a trip that involved me having to fly on both United and Southwest, and despite the seat pitch on my Southwest flights only being 1” wider than it was on my United flights (that I obviously flew in regular economy), I really felt that difference on the Southwest flights. Turns out an extra inch of pitch really makes a difference for a 5’11” person like me.
i’m 6’6”. i understand that flying is a luxury, but it does feel rough that i always have to pay extra because i literally do not fit in an economy seat at all. I don’t even get the chance to go for the cheapest option like everyone else, I *have* to pay an additional amount just to *barely* fit in their economy comfort seats.
I didn’t choose to be this tall, you know
You won the genetic game. Accept very small defeat.
Flying isn’t a luxury - it’s torture.
@@matrixace_8903 you're on every comment that's is from tall people. what's the deal? people can recognize the general advantage of being tall and still have valid problems
But all the bonuses outweigh one inconvenience. As a 5'2 lady I have to constantly worry about my safety because I'm a target for men. If I could be taller, I would.
@@matrixace_8903 lack of legroom on most forms of transport isn't a very small defeat, anything over 6' doesn't really give you many benefits, while significantly decreasing comfort in many places. Being 6'5, there's plenty of chair+table combos even outside of transport where I need to throw my legs out to the side, because they just don't fit under the table without causing serious pain within 10 minutes.
My dad & I flew first class on a small airplane back in June. While the seats were the largest available we’re above average height. So my dad who is 81 had to contort himself downwards and sideways to clear the overhead bin. I made sure he got the isle seat to make it as comfortable as possible but I do agree that there should be more consideration for people when designing these aircraft
It was about a 6 year difference (2017-2023) between when I’ve flown, and I was incredibly shocked at how tricky it was to get out of the seats this time (I’m an average sized person) and how small the over head bins have gotten. It was even the same air line 😭
Wohoo!! A new Vox Design video! Love them!
As someone who is in the 99.1 percentile for height (according to some random website), flying on budget airlines is essentially a no-go. There literally is not enough space to put my legs without entering the space of the person next to me. I feel like in most cases though, just another 2-4 inches would make all the difference (I haven’t actually measured, but it seems about right).
I was recently on a flight from southern California when the person in front of me complained that they couldn’t recline their seat… because my legs were literally pressing into the back of it! Please have awareness of who is sitting behind you, I only recline my seat if there is a small child sitting behind me!!
"bugdet Airlines" don't complain when you don't want to pay so much money for more space
For everyone, please note that on larger planes, mostly widebodies (planes with 2 aisles) economy seats are more comfortable (Cathay Pacific's 777-300ER is an example)
yes
although i hear narrowbodies are having so much fuel effiency they could do transatlantic and transpacific flights so in the future we may not have widebodies.
this is unlikely though
East Coast-Europe routes, especially Canada-France/UK are increasingly dominated by the Airbus A321. Get ready, the future is here :)
The one guy saying he isn't willing to pay extra for more leg room, but also saying he wants a standard that is less cramped...what do you think happens if the airlines are mandated to provide more leg room, therefore fitting fewer seats on each flight?
I'm 6'4" and personally haven't had that many issues, but I don't typically fly low-cost carriers. If you're buying a ticket for less than $100, just expect to be crammed in as tight as possible.
I also wanted to note that flying commercially on a DC3 is torture compared to airline travel today, regardless of seat pitch. It's loud, slow, and bumpy. And, accounting for inflation, most tickets then cost the price of a first class seat today. Don't think of it as "every seat on the plane was better than today." Think of it as "every seat on the plane was first class."
I’m like almost perfectly 2 meters tall. When I went onto Ryanair for my first time this summer, I was shook by how tight the space was. On my way back I did get Ryanair’s newer seats that are thinner, they were definitely more spacious but still pretty cramped. (Like I still was touching the seat in front of me sitting normally...) As someone who is used to flying the bigger airplanes with somewhat better seat pitch, I find it difficult to go to Ryanair again. Without taking the “extra legroom” seats of course. 😅
I flew to Europe on Delta last fall. There were 5 levels of ticket price. The bottom level didnt give a choice of seat, you couldnt check a bag and no credit for miles. I took the 4th level. By the next time I fly to Europe, they will probably measure everyone for knee to rear distance.
Used to fly a lot for work and always felt for the taller-than-6'3"-folks. I'm 6'1" but not a big guy and it would genuinely cut off circulation at times. Shoutout to the short kings.
Some airplane has even more luxurious exit row than just 14 inches, if your exit row happens to also face the jump seats (for flight attendants). It is probably even more spacious than first-class, as the jump seats are primarily being used during takeoff and landing only. It is just so comfortable for a long-hual flight
As a 6’ tall woman flying has always been uncomfortable. Having a smaller seat pitch isn’t just about leg room, it also determines if I can reach my bag below the seat in front on me and my ability to rest on the flight. I am always so jealous of small people who can lay their heads on the tray.
I'm about average height and build. For me, economy legroom generally aren't an issue for domestic flights. It's usually the seat's width that feels tight and cramped, especially if you have large people next to you. I generally opt for an aisle seat because of this, so you at least have one side with more breathing room.
Pro tip, take an ERJ-175 domestically as often as possible. They are limit to 76 seats by law, so they aren't allowed to configure them super tight.
Very accurate, one of the reasons why it's one of my favorite planes to fly on. Plus you can't beat the guaranteed aisle or window seat.
Technically, I think it’s by contract (with the pilots), not law, but you’re right about them being restricted.
such a beautiful plane ❤
I think I did fly on one as my hometown only has a small trip to bigger ones. However the drawback was there’s no underseat luggage space so your carry on has to either fit the overhead cabin ( which are a little smaller than average) or it gets checked under no matter what.
@@darkessraven strange, there should be under seat luggage space on all E170/175s that can accommodate a backpack/bag, it's the overhead space that's cramped. The later boarding groups often have to check their carry on's.
Full disclosure, I'm sitting on an E175 as I write this (UA6124). It's a great plane for sure!
One reason more for high speed rail.
It goes from city centre to city center and you have more legroom.
Being a short guy makes me insecure, but boy do I love the extra legroom
Reclining a seat does effect legroom, especially if the passanger behind is tall, like me (6ft6). Not only is our buttock-to-knee length greater, also my knee is higher. So when someone does recline their seat, it drestically reduces the space!
5:10 How can you show an image saying Rome is in Spain!! Americans and geography 😂
This is best Vox type video Vox has produced after a long time, the graphs and survey, everything shouts Vox beautifully
A little bit of reclining is fair enough, especially on long international flights.
i'm 6'4", I am anti-recline. Reclining does decrease leg room (in video it said that it doesn't necessarily decrease leg room... it does). My knees are always against seat in front of me, often painfully because of tray table hardware, not to mention having to spread my legs in a very particular way to fit.
But reclining doesn't necessarily decrease legroom. Some planes have seats that move forward when you recline, so the person behind you still has the same amount of legroon.
I don't understand how anyone would think reclining doesn't reduce legroom...they clearly sent the wrong guy!
I don’t have a leg room issue so much as a width room issue. Even before I gained a ton of weight, it was still really tight in those seats. I haven’t ridden a plane in a year and I question, with my recent weight gain, how well I would actually fit.
I can tell you, from recent personal experience, that you would not fit well. (this is not being snarky). I flew on Alaska 3 days ago, on a 737. Unfortunately, ended up in a window seat in a row of three seat. I was miserable. Padding was thin, spine forced into uncomfortable slouched slump. Seat belt barely fit, tray table hit my knees, width of seat had me squished between my overweight travel companion and the wall. I dropped my phone twice, and had no room to bend and reach it on the floor. I couldn't stand up or twist to ask passenger behind me to check the floor. The main aisle was 14" wide. I am 5'2" and 200 lbs.
On my recent flights, it didn't seem like reclining the seats was even an option. The buttons are either broken or disabled. Even when the seats reclined, it was a barely noticeable amount, like 0.5 to 1 inch.
Hello Dear Vox team,
i have been watching your videos since around 2018-2019 and have been enjoying the ones y'all uploaded during the corona lockdown as well. I have an idea for a video. yall can make a video about hotel soundproof rooms and soundproofing. and its history and how to identify one and if hotel soundproofing really trustworthy. this one is a good idea.
cheers!
kaisan.
00:00 watch out jumpscare
Personally I nearly always get the extra legroom seats when they’re available (I’m 5’10”). It’s worth noting that on long-haul flights, airlines typically offer seats between business and economy that are basically domestic first class seats, which is a story in and of itself.
I just flew premium economy from Chicago to Rome and back in its exactly like you said. Basically a domestic business class seat and it was definitely worth the extra cost to me as a 6tf tall man.
I flew Sprint airlines once, the back pain caused from the seat will cost me more than what I saved by choosing the airlines. Also I used to be staunchly anti-seat reclining. However now I do it only if the person in front of me does.
Airplane legroom has become tighter due to airlines trying to maximize their seating capacity and profits❤
People do not want to pay for a ticket about 400 Dollar either
@@mausi28💀💀💀 you have not been to African countries than. Search up the prizes of government owned àir companies like àir Algérie.
or because we wanted cheaper airfares.
@@houseplant1016 I never was and i never will be in africa
@@tusharsaikhedkar9808 Absolutely. for some reason most people don't seem to understand this fact
Less legroom = cheaper tickets
We vote for the legroom with our dollars
I went to Japan on a 10 hour flight, and then back from Taiwan on a 14 hour flight. For both of these flights, we were able to book the exit row seats next to the bathrooms, for ~$50 more per person. This meant we had a whole ROOM worth of legroom, we could stretch, get up and stand in front of our seats, it was glorious. For extremely long flights like this, the small fee is 1000% worth it. We were still in regular economy, but had more legroom than business class.
What's truly appalling is that the default transportation mode between NYC and Chicago is the plane and there is no high speed rail nor a night train with reasonable duration (12 hours max) that connect them.
Thanks for showing us all the measures in cm
Good job, as usual.
👍
My major issue is the width of the seats. Specifically the 1.5” of shared arm rest space between seats. I cant quite afford first class most of the time, and so even with extra pitch between rows in economy plus there’s the three abreast seating issue where I wish the designers had made the aircraft 12’ wider so everyone could get and extra inch on each side.
I hate having my arms tucked in like that for several hours much more than someone reclining.
Charging for carry-ons is wild.
Anyway, we just flew on Jet Blue a few days ago, ad the seats were so uncomfortable. My back still hurts.
As a flight attendant for a European LCC I can attest that Large carry-ons slow down boarding so much. Offloading a Large Cabin Bag that doesnt fit either bc theres too many or its over the size limit costs the airline about €50-100.
I 100% support unbundling large cabin bags, but i do think the under-seat carry on should be moderately generous and airlines/gate staff shouldn't enforce handbags/crossbody bags and a single carrier bag within that limit.
Unbundling helps get more people on planes, reduces weight load, and reduces turnaround times, reducing carbon intensity and freeing up slots at airport gates, I'm a fan.
Nicely done video although I didn’t learn much from it
At 5-11 with lower back issues, I can accept/tolerate a basic economy seat for shorter domestic flights (up to 3 or 4 hours). For long haul international flights, I will spring for the extra leg room at the exits which makes standing up to stretch very convenient. Next year I plan to try Premium Economy for what will be the longest flight I've experienced.....15+ hours non-stop to SE Asia. To me its worth paying extra to be comfortable if spending that amount of time on a flight.
People typically want the window seat to view the commute, but as someone who is 6ft tall I always go for the aisle since that gives me the benefit of somewhat stretching my legs 😭
what about middle :troll:
I've been pondering whether airline companies might start asking passengers about their weight and height during the ticket booking process. It would be intriguing to see if they could offer a discounted rate for a more comfortable seat, tailored to the needs of taller or heavier individuals. Such a consideration could greatly contribute to passenger satisfaction and provide a more enjoyable flying experience for everyone involved.
What? They should charge bigger/heavier people more not less. I have to pay more if I want to bring extra baggage and so should they…
@@Dan-yh8qpexcept being tall isn’t a choice. Packing more is
Obviously you’re right. But from an aviation company it would be something like « you choose to be then also to fly so you have to pay for the extra « you ».
If i have to pay more if my Hand baggage is overweight, the Land Whale who thinks its ok to also take over half of my seat when sitting next to me should pay more for weight as Well as the Extra seatspace taken.
I'd not be surprised if the airlines haven't already considered that. Don't forget that to weigh and measure every passenger means longer boarding times which means more time spent on the ground which no airline wants
As a 6’6 man I won’t fly whatsoever if I don’t get the exit row for the extra leg room
God Bless aviation and travel!!
"Allow the consumer to self-select what they're willing to pay for" Sounds great to me!
just becuase they pay for it doesn't mean they're going to get it
Regarding "reclining seat" -- If I recline the seat I'm in, I do so minimally to avoid crowding the person behind me. Also, before I recline my seat, I give the person behind me a heads-up.
When I fly, it's usually long-haul, 10 to 11 hours (LAX to FRA). In my experience it never hurts to be a "good neighbor".
Sometimes 1st is cheaper than coach when you add all the extras on. Evacuation must happen in 90 seconds so seat room does affect that.
The increased segmentation comment is so true. I flew Delta recently and they called like 5 different "premium" groups before Main cabin and then basic economy. As far as I can tell, Premium Economy is just the privilege of being close to the bathroom or a window seat, and main cabin is paying extra to choose a seat.
Missing the Ryanair perspective here!
As a kinda of taller bigger person i can't feel comfortable unless i can recline atleast a little bit the chairs to me are on narrow side and should be about 3 inches wider
I would only consider First Class on long international flights paid through points because they're extra discounted, sometimes as much as 75% off. I want to go and visit Argentina which is an estimated 18-32 hr flight; yes using multiple flights but usually 2-3 flights longer than 6hrs and some 9hrs.
There are the seats at the front end of the econ class that have "unlimited" knee room. One time I was forced to sit there because literally there were no other seats, and normally these longer knee room seats cost more, so I thought I was getting lucky. The problem is that they give you knee room, but no extra arm room. The two guys who sat beside me were like 6'4" or something and their elbows were like right in my lap the whole flight.
If you want more space in a airplane you have to pay more
That's not available on every flight, even when it is those seats often sell out fast, and why should I have to pay more because of a physical characteristic over which I have no control?
@@gordon1545 Than buy two tickets or do not fly
@@gordon1545 because a plane is Millionen Dollar Thing and can't Not rebuild Just for one Person
My friend Sick Ranchez who has no legs, see this as an absolute win.
I’m so happy that I only fly business or first class so that I get plenty of legroom
Me too. Good food and lounges add to the enjoyment as well.
Flying is one of the few times being short is actually an advantage (ignoring the swing and tip toes you have to do to put your suitcase in and out of the bulkhead area).
As a 189cm (6'2 and a half) person, I generally have no issues with reclining. It's probably unnecessary on short hop flights that are maybe 4-5 hours or less, but otherwise, go for it. I don't notice any material difference other than the TV coming closer. I know some people have strong views on this, and some have sat behind me, but it's there for a reason. All this being said, I probably have a short knee to buttock length for my height.
1. The “blue prints” for the a319 is wrong. It says ur fits 156 passengers on economy but the whole airplane only fits around 120-130 people
2. The A320 fits typically 150 people, not 180
3. The A319 is just a variant of the A320 which means it’s also the biggest 737 competitor
the A319 blueprints aren't wrong, they're simply a full economy setup.
also, wikipedia says A320's range from 150-186 passengers
@@SebastianD334 Yes, that is technically correct, however he was flying American which has a first class and economy extra which brings the seat count down.
@@SebastianD334 And he was on United on the A320 which has total 150 seats
Yeah Im a flight attendant for easyJet, a european LCC who flies a 100% Airbus A320 family fleet. Our A320s fit 186, with a 100% economy layout and a Spaceflex Aft Galley. That plane definitely had less seats. Our A319s fit 156 but thats again also with a 100% economy layout
@@Squaretable22 yeah it depends on airlines
Flew on Spirit for the first time yesterday, can confirm cheap cushionless seats, no legroom, and the tray table was a joke. They don't even give out complimentary drinks, but I sure saved a few bucks.
I used to not have an issue with the amount of legroom on a plane, but a few years ago I became disabled and now if I were to sit in an airplane seat for an hour, it would take me about 15 minutes of painful stretching to be able to even walk off the plane afterward.
@7:28 He wants a nicer basic seat yet stated earlier he is not willing to pay for more leg room. This is exactly why airlines stuff as many people as possible in the plane. When presented with the option for more legroom, most consumers decline. Consumer preference is responsible. You can have low prices or more legroom. You can't have both.
I wanna know how sustainability plays into this conversation. (After the plane hierarchy is removed) Certainly less space means more people can fit meaning less airplanes.
It’s better for the environment to have more people. It’s the opposite of a private jet.
If you think sustainability is driving this over profit margins, I've got a bridge to sell you.
@@kezia8027 when did anyone say this? Economical usually means more sustainable.
@@yungrichnbroke5199 where on earth did you find that made up definition? That economical literally has nothing to do with sustainability.
@@kezia8027 find me an economy car with bad gas mileage. Efficiency is efficiency.
I decided to splurge on my ATL-SEA round trip with first class. Unfortunately, it's not going to be the luxury walled-in seats you see on some larger planes, but it should be more comfy than coach. Waiting to see if some middle seat coach passenger asks to swap seats with me :)
What always baffles me is the way that the windows don't line at up at all with the seats. It seems clear that even the manufacturers aren't designing the planes for the current seat layouts. In terms of safety, those seatback cards always say that in case of a crash you should fold your torso down over your lap and wrap your arms around your thighs. I'm 5'3" with an average length torso, and I can't come anywhere close to getting my torso down over my lap. There just isn't enough room for that.
It would be nice to have some priority seating for the taller people. However, i’m also pro reclining. Some people can’t sit in thr total vertical position. Too much muscle, for example
I never recline my seat unless there is a child or no one sitting behind me. I consider it rude, especially with today's reduced seat pitches. However, I mostly fly on Spirit or Frontier, which do not have reclining seats.
As a tall person, thank you so much for your consideration
I'm 6'7" and find some domestic economy seats to be ok but not great. I just accept that I have to endure a few hours of discomfort for a cheap ticket. I have found that overseas flights are much worse and I no longer have an option other than to pay extra for the premium seats. I don't know if they're jamming seats closer together for those overseas flights but I won't even be able to lower my seat tray as my knees sit above the frames for those tables. In my unrealistic but ideal world they'd have tall person seats at the same rate if you really don't fit due to height.
As your gent in the middle put it, lucky to get a peace of paper in the gap less so if the on in front try’s to lean back
I'm tall, I don't fit in the leg space. But still I think that there is no such an argument as pro or against reclining seats: the person in front has all the rights to recline as much as they want because it's a feature of their seat and they paid for it
Fellow tall people, tell us how you feel when a short person reclines their seat. It's so infuriating for me. I have never once reclined my own seat for this reason despite being the most in need to do so.
I hate it only when they lean too far back.
Get over it. I paid for the full features of the seat. Don’t like it? Pay more.
@@alessandras2872 I paid for every feature my seat has. You ever flown Ryanair? They don’t let you recline. I paid no recline prices that is what I get. If American or Delta lets me pay to recline then I will recline. If you have a problem with that you can pay for more legroom. You’re the entitled one. This is a pay to play society. Get used to it.
@@alessandras2872 If it is an option, then they are in fact entitled to what they've paid for, which would included reclining.
I am a short person and when people recline it is infuriating. Seats shouldn’t recline.
everyone thinks the exit row is good but u only get leg room, they reduce the with of the seat to fit the tray table in armrest and most exit row seats are fixed so you cant even recline it
How about the recommended emergency position? I'm 6'2" and I can not take that position within the current standard seating.