Best Affordable Vintage Amps? The History and Design of Music Man.
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Today I go over some of the most underrated amps in the world - Music Man.
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What is always missed in assessing this amp's electronic design is that the output stage is NOT a simple valve design. The output stages themselves are solid state/valve hybrids. Look at the schematic and you will see that each pair of valves is actually a transistor/valve cascode (note, that is not "cascade"). The valve cathode sits on the collector of the transistor and the signal is applied to the transistor base. The transistor is the amplifying element producing the high output signal current at pretty much a fixed low voltage with the valve acting as its load. The valve simply deals with passing that same current at its much higher high voltage to the transformer not having to worry about amplifying it in any way. This design is common in solid state circuitry with its higher voltage and higher frequency characteristics. The Musicman SS/Valve hybrid is a really innovative design and accounts for much of the brilliant controlled cleans the amp produces.
Thank you for providing even more information Albert, I have pinned this comment for everyone to see.
Thank you for the info as I am a proud owner of this amp.
So refreshing to see the next generation appreciate the magic in the Music Man amps. I bought my 212 65 new in '79 or 80 and gigged it for about 35 years. Passed it onto a friend's son and now it's happily gigging in Nashville. While I sure do miss it, I'm happy it's still on the road producing those amazing sounds.
It's remarkable to me that these amps have flown under the radar for one reason or another. I've had mine for over 20 years, and I've never even considered selling it! Happy to hear yours lives on and continues to be of service
Thank you for this! Just something to add- people understandably always talk about the HD-130 as one of the best clean amps ever. That is absolutely true. But what I don’t hear many people talk about is that these amp’s edge of breakup/light overdrive sound is amazing too! You have to accept having the cops called on you to do it, but the HD-130 turned up is something to behold. You have to turn the Master volume up almost all the way, and then just set the preamp so that it’s cleanish when you strum lightly, and like AC/DC when you punch chords hard. It’s like heaven if you have the ability to have that volume level. Cranking the preamp and having master low is not a good sound, for my taste anyway. It’s all about having the master all the way up, with preamp on about 4.
You're right on all fronts, the amp does sound really good for dirt but my god - to really hit the sweet spot you can almost blow your windows out! haha
I bought my first Music Man amp in 1981. 100 RD head. 4 months later I bought the one 12": EVM-12L Cabinet. Been playing it ever since. I have 3 other 112RD 100 watt units for backup but my OG amp is still used today. I have a stash of Sylvania 6L6 GC tubes to go with them too. These amps are a lot like the early Mesa Boogies. They are BRUTALLY LOUD and you can use them for any music genre you want to play. Back in the metal heydays of the late 80's, I would wheel my little amp in front of the marshall stacks and get laughed at. Funny thing, after I played my set....nobody was laughing! How does all that tone and sound come out of that little amp? Plus, I could load it in my little car by myself in 5 minutes and on the way I went. Good luck with that stack..... Yep....great amps!
Awesome video. Just snagged a 210HD 130W Musicman at a local Estate sale for $400. Almost broke my back getting it upstairs, but she sounds amazing with my Strat.
They are absolute gems. Part of me is happy that so few people really know how good they are, keeps the prices reasonable but my god they sound great and are the best value you're ever going to get with a tube amp. Congrats on the amp!
I have owned a 1978 HD 130 head since 1988. It has driven two different cabinet setups - an Electrovoice 15” in a peaveyshit cabinet, and now a pair of Hartke XL 410 and 115. The amp has the original Mil Spec Sylvania rectifier tube, and the original 4 EL 34’s. I have not needed to service the amp. It is still in great shape and sounds great!
I bought my MM 210 Sixty Five brand new in 1977, it has the single 12ax7 phase inverter tube. I gigged it a lot until 1984 when I bought a Boogie MKIIB, thinking I needed the power and lead channel. The MM stayed in the band’s truck as a backup, lying face up in the bit of the truck that hung over the driver’s cab, sort of a giant shelf. The day came when I needed it after about 5 years and the roadie got it out for me but it was wet! A hole in the truck roof. Took it straight to a tech who replaced a few caps but the speakers were still good. To this day, it’s still as good as new, except the tolex. Such an awesome amp. It toured recently with my daughters band and was much admired by the sound techs and other guitarists. Safely back in my studio hanging out with the Boogie,
The Music man HD130 2x12 JBL loaded combo has been Joan Jett's workhorse over the years
For good reason, it's so reliable and sounds great
Traded my 130 2-12 for a 210-65 back in '82 . Was never heard onstage again. Got drowned out by everything else. But now it shines as ideal wattage for most gigs.
I really like the MM's that came with the 10 inch speakers too, I always have my eyes out for one of those. They had so many great amps to chose from.
That’s a great run down. I’ve owned an HD 130 with twin 10’s for 40 years. It was my main gig amp for 25 years and I played shows for the most part 4 nights a week. Sadly, the amp now has a really loud hum and breaks up at low volumes. The tubes test fine and I believe the problem is in the solid state portion of the amp. I have since moved onto other amps however, your video has made me decide to get it into the shop for repair. Cheers!
Mine is currently also getting some repair, can't complain too much really myself. The thing has put up with cross country travel multiple times and been thrown around stage to stage and car to car. I'm happy to invest and bring it back to life and I'm sure you'll fall in love with yours again too
You explain this exceptionally well.
Thanks for the history lesson. I have two of these amplifiers and I Love them. Sounds great clean or dirty. Nice and punchy, the way I like it. Durable and built like a tank. Heavy like a tank too. It's no fun lugging them around but it's worth it for the great sounds. Thanks for sharing all the great info. Rock On Sir!!
They are the most underrated amps in history in my honest opinion. Especially in this market where a lot of mass produced garbage sells for double and doesn't sound half as good.
In the late 70's, I had a HD-130 210 that was in the trunk of my car when it was stolen. I loved that amp.
God that sucks. They simply are just incredible. At least if you really wanted to get another one you're not going to be paying thousands and thousands of dollars to replace it.
I had a 210 65 in the 90s. Loved it!
For volume, get a 2x12 cab w/8ohm speakers. Wire in parallel @4ohms for loud. Use them in series @16ohms on low power for most of the tone at lower volumes (set the switch for 8 ohms).
Yes, that's pretty much what I have done too, even though I have 4x12 cab with 16 ohm speaker. In practice I have connected it as two 2x12 speakers in parallel (8 ohm) in the same cab. When I connect them in series I get 16 ohm (switch on 8 ohm) on low power and when connected in parallel I get 4 ohm (switch on 4 ohm) but mot of all I just use one of the 2x12 combo as an 8 ohm speaker (and then I have the other 2x12 connected to another amp and sometimes a switch between them two). And as for all that has been said in this video, I agree and I absolutely love my MM HD130 (1974). It is clean as clean can be, it moves air like nothing else and can be adjusted/manipulated to do everything that I want it to do. On top of that, it is reliable. :)
And yes, it IS heavy too, but hey, I got wheels on my cab and the rubber feet on the amp is the best and sturdiest in the business :)
I heard Johnny Thunders used a music man amp in his early years before he joined the dolls
Been a MM lover since the early 80's . I've play two Rd 100 's the last 17 years ,one pushing a 2×12 vintage 30 Celestions and the other a modle16 Leslie I copied and built from guts out of a Hamond organ. It has a single vintage 30 Celestion. I've only recapped them during Covid and other than tubes they are flawless. Thanks for the video. Love MM. Brad
I don't know all that much about amps, so this is very helpful.
I enjoy learning all of these little things, it really helps when making evaluations on potential purchases and also repairs.
I'm not sure Fender was still using tube rectifiers at the time. They started switching to SS rectifiers back in the 60, by 1975 there were hardly any models with tube rectifications (well, maybe still Bandmasters.....?).
Yeah, what looks like a rectifier in some is a 12ax7 (with a metal cowling, typically) in the preamp to drive the gain on the limiter side
I just picked up a Music Man 75 Reverb head and an old JBL 1x15 cabinet. The clean tones are righteous.
That's a perfectly fitting word to describe it. These amps are indeed righteous, glad you love yours brother
I owned a MM combo in the early 80’s and loved it!
I sat it on top of my 4X Marshall cabinet and it had a magical sound to it. I put a MXR series 2000 distortion + through it and it had an unmistakable crunchy sound. Clean it was beautiful too.
To this day it's still such a great pedal platform amp, loud enough for any gig, great clean tones, reliable, and just works. must have sounded huge with that cabinet!
The secret with Music Man amps is to crank the main volume so you get that delicious power tube distortion,and use a tube driver or similar device for the dirt - the sound with the master low and the channel high is not very inspiring by modern tastes, so as the man said, you may need an attenuator as these are loud amps , they are the most reliable amps ever made IMO.
Thanks Gary, and I agree these amps are pretty indestructible.
I have a HD230 I A B it with my Marshal JTM60 and it is amazing the tones I get.
I just snagged a 210 HD One-Fifty for $450 in great shape. I've never played a Music Man before this and I'm now obsessed.. This amp is so incredible, I love to learn more about these gems! Thanks for the video =)
You're welcome and I find most people that stumble across this brand end up feeling the same way. They just have this unique sound that is really all its own... and on top of that you don't have to spend thousands of dollars for one and they were hand built in the USA!!!
@@AudiomoMusic Have Y'all got One for sale???
No and sadly mine was destroyed from the hurricane
How do you like your 150? I have the opportunity to buy one for $550 and it seems to need gone through
Ive had a 210 65 since 1978 changed tube s once never ever had an issue best sounding amp I ever had or played.
Designed for Guitar or Bass, AND you can jump channels and use both simultaneously/or not. I firmly stand by the claim these are the absolute best amps for extended range guitars/instruments. I was endorsed by Fractal and switched to pedal platform and the variance of sound and plethora of options with this amp is unmatched for my needs. All forms of progressive music on 8 string telecaster. The SINGLE thing I would change is adding an FX loop. Thank the Golden Age of gear for noise gates with loops built in and the mighty hum debugger for 60cycle coil split SPANK everyone loves now.
I have a 210 HD 130w with a matching 4x12 cab. It's a 70s model with the 12ax7 phase inverter. I think it may be a 76. The head is indestructible. I've had this amp for 30 years and treated it really badly when I was playing in bands in my 20s. I was dumb. I used to kick the head to get that "thunder" sound from the reverb springs. Anyway, I'm no longer a monster....
The attenuator mentioned in this video is crucial. The 130w is so friggin loud. And, it is not here to be your neighbor's friend. I love this amp. It really has it's own sound. The 10" speakers with the EL34s give this amp a lot punchier sound than you'd think by looking at it. The EL34s in the output stage start to sound pretty sweet when you crank up the Master but keep the channel volumes lower. This amp never met a pedal it didn't like.
I'm so happy to hear you've had yours even longer than I've had mine. I could never imagine parting with mine. Without the ability to seriously dial back the volume it would be completely impractical at home, cops would be called daily and I'd be deaf by now.
@@AudiomoMusic ha! No doubt!
I've had mine since I was about 16 or 17. The whole neighborhood was probably plotting to kill me back then. I was actually reunited with this amp only a few weeks ago after it had been in a storage shed in my mom's backyard in hot and humid South Carolina for more than 20 years. I plugged in and it played right away like I had never put it in the shed. Original tubes, original speakers.... You could probably pass yours on to your grand kids!
I have a 112 rd 100 silverbadge (circa1974?) and it does it all. You can swim in the reverb and knock down walls with the volume at 4-5. They are built like a brick S house and if you gig with them from town to town, you definitely won’t need a gym membership.
I have yet to meet a single person who actually owns a musicman amp with anything bad to say about them. They are truly remarkable and I'm glad you have gotten great use from yours
These amps were an industry standard and a very common back line amp in the 70s. More successful than MM guitars (not saying much) and even their basses at the time. Great vid!
Thanks Carlton!
Great vid about one of the best amps IMO. I had the 210HD 130w with a 2x10 Music Man extension closed back cab. Together it was a clean, very loud 10"x4 half stack that could rattle my house. I gigged out with it back in my 20's and 30's and it had been with me until about 7 years ago when I had to sell it to temporarily downsize. It took every pedal well, especially my RAT distortion pedal. I would get the sweetest feedback off sustained chords and even single notes. It was heavy as hell but it was a tank. It took bumps all the time and never had a problem with it. The connection for the reverb tank was iffy but was like that when I bought it. Didn't really use reverb as I had a lot of tight stops in my songs. I miss that MM amp set up. I preferred it over the 12" counterparts as I thought the 10" speakers were punchier and better for the tightness of the stops in my songs where the 12" flubs IMO.
Thanks for the great vid and I agree 100% with you. If I ever find one again, I'm snagging it.
I loved this thing for a pedal platform. It's really incredible at just giving straight up clean tone for days at ANY volume. Makes for a much more versatile amp than people would associate it with. Unfortunately this amp was damaged beyond repair in the hurricane so I actually am seeking out another.
I own a 79 Fender Pro...and a 76 M.M 130 2x12...and love them both....to me they are living room amps. lol...I like the full clean sound.
Nice job man. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
I GOT ONE-- SIXTY-FIVE 210 --I USED IT AS A HARP AMP ---STILL RUNNING STRONG.--- I'LL SELL IT FOR 3K --- THIS IS MY-- I DON'T WANT TO SELL IT PRICE ...
Ive been looking at Music Man really love these amps thanks for the insight.
They are remarkable amps, well worth the effort of getting one. I could never imagine selling it.
I'm really impressed by the Music Man line you are absolutely right about the solid state elements that keeps alot of tube purists away.If i can find one im getting it.Great vid BTW
Thank you, I really do appreciate it. I wanted to share my love and the history that I was able to access on these incredible amps.
Picked one up in Tempe Az recently. Awesome amp! Love playing Peter Gun through it more than anything with my 10yo daughters. Came with vintage case that had "Ray Gallaway"stencil on it. Been cool researching this one.
I'm curious, how brave have you been with testing the volume? It always amazes me how far you can push this and retain absolutely crystal clear tones. I'm glad you love yours, it will last you a long time and you'll have many years of fun with it. Congratulations!
I had a 130 HD 2x10. I replaced the speakers with JBL's for some reason... The amp was stolen in Vermont and I hope it's still in use. I bought an 100RD with an EV speaker for $200 in 95 and after a recap it's still shaking the walls of our house. There are two jacks on the right side that allow me to use the power amp and I put my mesa V-Twin in the loop for the distortion. But running it with nothing is really great because it is clean clean clean!
Had a RD50 in high school with a 2x12 cab with Electro-Voice speakers. I wish I held on to that amp, it was special.
The EV speakers are great, harder to find these with the originals in them but man they are fantastic.
I had a Music Man 112RD back in '81. Nice, clean sound. I was not a fan of the native distortion sound. Being a beginner, I didn't know about trying pedals to beef up the distortion. Wound up trading it to my brother, who still has it.
Ha ha, I have an early '80s RD-110 and live in a condo. I have it dialed in very specifically to a low volume that still takes pedals. But when I know no one is around, I have the audacity to turn it to 2. The floor shakes. The problem I've had is that affordable attenuators usually go in an FX loop, and this has none. I've tried some of the new desk-top models like the Yamaha and Boss boxes, but they just don't do it for me. There is something about the clean channel of the Music Man that works so very well alone but also with pedals.
Also, I've never had to buy a tube, even after the time I was actually playing live.
I have an opportunity to buy an original era 212 HD 150 and my amp tech says those amps run at a higher voltage and really get pushed which kinda shortens part life like a transformer or the tubes. Has anyone had long term experience with upkeep on these amps?
Curious abut what amp settings you like to use with your Jazzmaster ? I own a Music Man 210-65 ! Cool video btw
I like to have the treble reduced to about 3.5, mids at the center, bass slightly over 5, and the bright channel still engaged. I find this keeps the character while taming the extreme high frequencies on the bridge pickup.
@@AudiomoMusic cheers ! Will try it out !!
I have a RD -50 110 combo and an HD-130 head and they are great amps for the money....... If you have a good pedal board they can do anything and are built like a tank....... super value if you find one in very good condition. One of the best clean sounding tube amps you could ever find ..... regardless of price.
MM amps are great, and i have owned a few. I always ended up going back to Fender as i always hit a wall with their sound. They notes just didn't bloom in the same way. BTW i go to Parkwaymusic often. Great place.
I have a 210 hd 130 that I've done loud gigs with for years. It's had a lot of work. 4 trips to the doctor and new speakers (I really cranked the fuck out of it, though). Two years of breakdowns, and then solid ever since. I believe it is a 76... You may need to put an old amp through it's paces and break it a few times before you weed out it's weak spots. A great amp, super versatile, a unique trem sound, preamp breakup that is like nothing else from it's era. The reverb is also very un-fendery, relatively subtle. Just wish it wasn't so damn heavy.
The preamp break up. Could you describe the distortion. I have a valco now one knob and you gotta crank it pretty loud for it
That's really good tone. Never paid much attention to musicman
I'm happy you have now, they are truly incredible
Great info thank you
Glad you liked it! I've never made a video like this and it took a while but I enjoyed doing it.
My 1977 has the original square speaker magnets. Is that bad or good? BTW Alabama played through MM amps and guitars at one time you can see all of them in some of there old videos.
The 410 combo was the best one.
Shout-out to Parkway Music in Clifton Park NY, best music shop by far!
I have a musicman 112 rd 100 watts but I,d love to find some ways to lighten it up and still get the great sound! You have any ideas! Enjoyed your post!
Granted these HD130 2 / 12 combo w phase inverter tube sound great clean, I run Marshall mg 30 head phone jack send to ch 1 input ll on music man slamming it with gain into 2 celestion G12 H 30 55hz 16ohm blackbacks with 444 vintage 30 recone which ups the power handling of the speaker loaded in 1936 sealed cab or same drivers in 2 4/12 cabs
That's actually really smart, do you use an A/B pedal so you can channel switch?
Just got the combo version loaded with blackbacks 55hz 444 cones, small world
Great vid and delivery
Thank you, this is the only video of it's kind of format I've ever done because I truly love these amps and nobody seems to talk about them
Owned a Musicman HD130 212 since 1977. Reliable is an understatement. Never, never a problem.
I've never understood the stigma of them being "unreliable", they were designed to be even more reliable and this amp has come with me across the country several times and NEVER had a problem either. Glad you love yours as well, I go through a lot of gear but wouldn't dream of selling this.
Wouldn't say they're cheap, the shop down the street wants a grand for that 2x12 130. They wouldn't budge on the price.
@@bobbystereo936 I just picked up another one of these that was listed for 300, and there is another 65 that is for sale for 400 flat. You just happened to find a shop that doesn't wanna sell at the going rate, pretty unlucky
If it's in great, really nice condition...I'd say a good price would be around $700.
@@kendombrowski5479 pretty good condition only thing I don't like, it's missing the music man logo(metal plate).
YO shoutout parkway music, love this store
I love those guys, but I miss Charlie and the old store... the new big store is cool and all but the old one near the pool hall just had that magic to it.
Is One version of this amp better or more sought after than the other and if so how do we know or what do we look for? Thanks! I have the same one as you! 1977 square magnets! Friend of mine who taught me how to play! His parents bought him this amp and a black Music Man Stingray for Xmas back in 1979ish And we learned to play on that equipment and all these years I’ve been searching for guitars that feel just like that guitar did super smooth maple fingerboard!
EVM speKer in RD 112 not Eminence , good video
Thanks man appreciate it
Don’t kick the Peavey Amps and Guitars, they sound fine and some great and their guitars fine ! No telling how many musicians got started with Peavey !
i love music man thanks
Does anyone know how many were made with the phasor?
410 65 phasor would be lovely!
Supposedly there are 2 different 2x12 hd one thirties! I told an amp guy I had one and he asked me is it the one with such and such special feature! I guess Clapton and Mark Knoffler had a variation of these amps! Or modified version!
There were 2 of them, and actually a third one off version yes that were artist played that never made it into full on production. Pretty interesting really when you think about it, I wish there was more official documentation with these amps available to us!
just bought one. best studio amp!!
The reverb and trem are just to die for, clean headroom for days on top of that! congratulations!
Oh man great vid!
Thanks for watching and leaving a comment, I truly love these amps
I have both HD 130 head and a HD 130 212. I just run both squeeky clean and rely on tube overdrive pedals( blackstar, friedman, and a couple of tubesteader). The amp sounds great clean and is a perfect platform for the overdrive preamps.Have had them over 40 years now, and they still don't even break a sweat driving them at paint peeling volume levels.I used to gig a lot with them.An overdrive or eq pedal to hit the preamp a little harder always gave me a great sound. (aDOD overdrive 250 or Boss GE7 eq)😊
40 years and still going, really all that needs to be said and I completely agree with you - perfect platform amps can get louder than ever needed and last forever. Love these things.
Thanks!
Have to make a correction Mine is a 212hd130
What music man was the model Albert Lee and Clapton took on tour berween 1979 and 1984?
He played the same amp except in head and cab form (HD 130 Reverb), pretty cool really!
@@AudiomoMusic thank you
I enjoyed your video very much! I've always wanted a MM amp - now I want one even more...thanks a lot...my wife's gonna kill me again 😜
She won't kill you if you just show her the price of a new Fender amp vs the price of a used music man, she'll think you're being financially responsible 👍
I have Legend amps from Syracuse, NY. They are not holding up very well. If there was a comparison, I would describe them as Millennium Falcons. Too loud, unpredictable, and disappointing not capable of gigging. If anyone knows of a place to fix these please let me know.
I have a question. I've had a music man 115, sixty-five model amp for a few months now and it was like 50 dollars. I can't find this model anywhere at all and I was wondering if anybody could tell me the price of this by chance?
It's all relative, shipping one of those is going to cost you a ton due to the weight of it and most online buyers are a bit weary of buying an old amp like this sight unseen... most of the music man amps I see sell are local sales and normally for your model anywhere from 400-600 in working condition would be about right imo
Although I might not sell it(just yet anyway) its nice to know the price of it incase I find a decent marshal amp.And even if it would have been for a few hundred, I think its still a great deal. And thanks a lot for the reply, this definitely helps.
Thanks for the great info! Another artist of note is the country group Alabama who used Music Man for several years after coming onto the scene in 1980. Here is a live performance from 82 with them all playing through MM guitars and amps. ruclips.net/video/M6WfM0cXWSQ/видео.html
great video and breakdown of the design history ~ always my fave guitar amp
Thank you, these are criminally underrated amps. I'm happy they are still at an accessible price for the most part so others can get one too.
Do all 4 tubes glow in low power mode?
Yes, they do.
@@jeffmaloney8701 thanks I'm getting a new tube
Parkway Music in NY, by chance?
Yep, the glorious old store in the pool hall plaza! I’ve went to the new store years ago and while its bigger i miss the older ones hole in the wall appeal
@@AudiomoMusic I never got the chance to visit the old store, but I am a big fan of their current operations. We’ve done many deals, always fair and professional! Good to know there are some other guitar nuts that know a good amp when they see one in the area!
Rd100 and the 150 models sound best to me.
The RD100 sounds great cranked, I gigged with one as a backup for a while and really really loved it at venue volumes.
Parkway music!
The original store on route 9 in the same plaza as the trickshots will forever be remembered by me as one of my all time favorite shops in the world both in terms of the staff and the store itself.
They are heavy.
Extremely
Luv me 100rd
Love me 2x12 cab
Simple as
I too am a simple man, plug guitar into 212hd, reverb to 4, play. The end.
What fucking amp is it?!
Shhhh.... Great amp! Don't blow up the price.lol
Fortunately not nearly enough people watch this channel enough for that to happen 🤣
I hate twin reverb amps
They are super excessive, I prefer smaller fender style amps... but this music man is tonally very, very different than the twins I've played in the past from Fender.
Just snagged an HD150 on Eb@y. $427 w/tax..
Best $427 you ever spent