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HOW DOES BRO CUT HIMSELF OFF SO MUCH 😭 I was joking when I heard it like once, then all of a sudden every other line would be cut off at the end 😭 Most of the time it doesn't matter that much, but then it does, which sucks.
I still think Mewtwo being low tier in Ultimate is incorrect. The character has done some good work in the competitive scene, and overall, Mewtwo is super unexplored.
I never saw it. Everytime i play him i can never get a hit on anyone He could maybe be higher. But holy shit no that tail hurtbox is horrendous. Some people have tried saying “its not that bad”… ye- yes it is. Any move thats in the same zip code can hit mewtwo. Yesterday i played mewtwo online and barely got any hits in because of how horrendous the hitbox is. And maybe it wouldn’t be so bad if mewtwo wasnt the 7th lightest and was floaty as shit. Meaning he also has a horrible landing and abysmal disadvantage state. Not even tech can save him. Footstool-disable can only help so much.
I think that speaks more to the fact that most of ultimate's roster can do work if piloted by the right player, mewtwo has several weaknesses that keep him as a low tier but it doesn't mean a good mewtwo main can't get some results
His tail is what’s ultimately holding him back. I versed a mewtwo online the other day and my f-tilt hit the mewtwo, despite the fact that he completely rolled behind me.
The low tiers are the best they've ever been ultimate, it's just look at how hard the upper third of the cast can cheat. Dedede's inhale now reflecting doesn't really compare to a Joker Arsene or MinMin just deleting you from across the stage or Steve just existing. Power creep is criminal in this game
Smash is a game centered around mobility, which is something Ganondorf just doesn't have at all. I really wish they'd finally redesign his kit. Maybe it'd be enough for him to not be awful???
@@IamNstermaybe if smash wasn’t so lazy they could’ve changed his moveset completely. I only say lazy because he is largely a slower and heavier captain flacon clone
I absolutely agree about Kirby. He's extremely explosive in the right hands and can legitimately turn a losing Match-up into an even or winning one with copy ability. Samus Kirby is legitimately one of the scariest threats in the game, and Monado Kirby may as well be top tier, or at least very high tier xD
I have a friend who I used to play Ultimate with a lot. He mains Little Mac. You would not believe how much he would pop off every time he successfully recovered with Little Mac. What made it a bit extra funny to me is that I almost always play characters with great recovery like Pit.
It always annoyed me how people think Isabelle is worse than Villager, to which I disagree with. She's decent at best, but she is far from the worst. Not sure what people were smoking with that take
@@chrispo7610 IDK, having a fishing rod at least makes her a bit unique than having another rocket side B. It just needs a bit of a buff, maybe have it so that Isabelle can reel the rod back faster so she doesn't get nearly as punished. It's a nice way to mix recovery options too unlike Villager who imo has a very linear recovery
Trying to choose who is better is hard. Because their tools are identical and their not in the same archetype. But I think we can all agree that villager is better
I still don't get why Villager has a walljump and Isabelle doesn't. Sure, she has a tether but Villager's side special is also used for recovery. It's confusing just like how Luigi can't walljump compared to Mario. 😵💫
@@Goofy-Mario64 I disagree as Isabelle does have some tools that make her far better (such as Nair and Up tilt) , but at that point, we'll just leave it at that. Agree to disagree
Yeah, but these characters where from mid/high tier to a low tier, and pichu was from top tier to a mid tier, simon and richter where from top tiers from low tiers
Your voice cuts out a lot throughout this video leaving words cut off. Not a big deal but you also repeated the same points a few times. Good video though. I'm surprised Incineroar wasn't mentioned.
@@icykuikinu6757 Yeah, I realized some time after my comment that he had jumped up a lot in tier since I last looked into them. Hadn't followed the game for a while.
Hot Take: Mewtwo, Ike and Kirby should not be THAT Low. I mean sure they have some flaws, but in my opinion they should be Mid Tier AT LEAST. Feel free to argue.
tbh. it is not even THAT bad. Side B can be really solid sometimes, since you can kinda play around with it and making your opponent guess if you either recover high or to ledge. (But yes, his UP-B recovery is very exploitable. I agree.)
Ike is the most predictable character in the game, learn how to anti air or parry Nair and his entire gameplan falls apart. He's slow, he has like 1 kill confirm except that has like a 7% window lol Mewtwo and Kirby are definitely not low tiers tho
Although he has other combo starters like Down-Tilt, Up/Down-Throw and Up-Air, yes Ike can be very predictable. Especially when his opponent knows how to parry, but to be honest it kind of depends which Ike you are fighting up against. If they spam N-Air over and over again, then yeah he is predictable. But if they mixup with tilts, grabs and aerials they can keep the opponent guessing.
Besides zelda’s frames holding her back in comparison to the rest of the cast, the air dodge system really fucked her over too. She mostly loses in the air especially vs disjoints. It’s especially noticeable when a character is able to miss an aerial but still have time to land and punish your airdodge before it ends. It’s also crazy how the glass cannon archetype is pretty much pointless when new characters are killing at 40% off a stray hit from a move with a giant hitbox and little lag.
I love the video and its clear you puts lots of effort in which I appreciate. My only advice would be to minimize the movement you do while one screen. You fidget a lot which makes you come off as lacking confidence, and is distracting. Loved the vid tho :)
The great thing about these low tiers is that most of them can be seen as viable and can make a good run in tournaments except ganon and like ddd. DK is one of the best examples since there has been a DK Renaissance lately with high level DK mains making big upsets over top players like Sparg0, Hurt, Light, and MuteAce with Rarikkusu, Mairudona, ChunkyKong, and Duplex, respectively.
YES! no way is DK bottom 8! If this same tier list from the same players were made today, their opinions would be different on DK becuz of the renaissance.
The content of the video is good but the editing was poorly done. There are a lot of audio cuts, and some background music doesn't go well with the scenes. I'm not sure if you have an editor or edit the videos by yourself but I think you should to keep these things in mind next time you post a video. Other than that, great content.
As a Smash 4 Villager main, a character falling off in a fading meta getting nerfed hard in the next game feels rough. Doesn't help that the engine got faster
Robin being slow ties back to his role in Fire Emblem Awakening. His role on the battlefield was to serve as a tactician, and not even someone who regularly got into combat. Obviously, you could make the player character powerful in combat, but lore-wise he was meant to guide units and and give orders. That's why his arsenal in Smash is so varied, he's not supposed to excel at anything but be a jack of all trades. His slow movements lend towards his strengths of area denial and make positioning him correctly more important.
Forgot to mention how Dr. Mario intially was highly perceived in early Ultimate like with Ike, most especially when Mario had been nerfed & became a watered down version of his Smash 4 iteration, & like Ike, overtime Dr. Mario heavily fell off as the meta evolved & players start to really see his weaknesses. Ironically, overall, Dr. Mario has way better moves than Mario like pills, Dr. Tornado, up b as a kill option, back throw, & forward air. It's most especially despite Mario being better, Dr. Mario is a lot more fun to play given his kit (it does add in how Ultimate Mario is basically a watered down version of Smash 4 Mario, which results in making Mario feel less fun to play). For sure if Doc had improved mobility & better up b distance, he'd have better perception. Honestly, Doc could've at least be better than Luigi had it not been for Luigi's insane grab game (literally Doc is actually faster than Luigi in the air)
Ike is a character a person who hasn’t played smash can easily pick up and win with on accident. He’s honestly not as bad as what people say. The whole “recovery” ploy excuse, with him being bad is total BS too. If anything it balances is range and strength.
It would be hard for me to run as well if I had on a large cloak and bulky leggings. The speediest version of Robin in fire emblem (heroes🤓) ditches both of those things for something lighter. He could levitate but that is too complicated for him lore-wise! It's hard enough for people to recognize him as it is so we are stuck with his default look aaaaaaaaaa 😭😖😱
@@mastamelon I was joking. Although I would actually like him to get a speed buff, I was exaggerating when I said I want him to be the fastest in the game.
@@mastamelon Ah, okay. I thought you didn't get the joke and were explaining why it didn't make sense. I know nothing about Fire Emblem so hearing you explaining why was pretty interesting I just misunderstood your intent. Sorry about that!
@@elchad8635bro, his crouch is so low, he can literally duck under samus misslie, young link fire arrow, wolf laser, megaman lemons, etc. And Kirby's air speed does suck, but he actually has one of the faster dashing speeds in the game so you combine that with dtilt, turnaround utilt, and angled ftilts being busted for starting combos, tripping, or setting up tech chases, and you have a better than low tier character imo. Optimized Kirby combos and extensions once he gets in on you lead you from like 0 to 70 my dude
DeDeDe is the best character in the game, acording to my siblings. No matter how they play and what character they play, they CANNOT defeat my Dedede. It got to the point that they got so angry i had to stop playing him.
Hell, nice vid! However i got some notes 2 add. Villager: hes more of a trapper than a true zoner. Unlike isabell who is more agressive, villagers tricks must be played around. All villagers moves are used to get people into a position to take massive damage or to get sent offstage. If you try to only camp you will lose as villy Villager is way better at ledgetrapping and edgegarding. Villagers recovery doesnt run out fast at all. The flaw is that it leaves him vulnurable in the air, he cant attack or cancel his up b and still recover. His main weakness is chars that avoid his traps, reflectors, and strong rushdown chars. Having disjoints or swords alone wont beat villager. Villager is also Very Slow Villager is prob still better than isabel tbh. 4 sword fighter i use 2113. That fixes most of swordis issues. Hell play more like a swordfighter/rushdown. Only his smash attacks are laggy but they dont kill early like most. he still has issues that include being outranged, killed early and being outdamaged. Its not a terrible char unlike what most will tell you. Hes pretts OK. Ikes main problem is that hes predictable and fairly easy to counterplay.
Jrs cannonball is just misunderstood. It's so good for stage control and mind games. Jr is all about forcing options, faking approaches. Having a slow moving, heavy hitting projectile compliments his kit great imo. It's not good at hitting, but it's good at getting the opponent into a predictable position.
28:22 Ganondorf has literally never used that sword before. It’s from a tech demo lmao. The only other time he used 1 sword before was twilight princess and that wasn’t even his sword He used a katana in totk now, but he also used a club, spear, and bow to match link’s 3 melee weapons and bow from BotW/TotK
Zelda is a case of 2 steps forward one step back while most of the cast took 3 steps foward. The devs didn't address some of her more pressing issues like her poor disadvantage, near complete lack of safety on shield, and mediocre range and mobility. They also completely nerfed nair and down tilt. The first by swapping out autolink hitboxs for a bunch of small angled hitbox and the second by making the knockback significantly more horizontal.
I've been an Ike main since Brawl. Without a shadow of a doubt Ultimate Ike is the least bad version of Ike other than PM/P+. I'm honestly convinced the only buff Ike really needs is for nair to be safe on shield AND parry. If we got that he'd shoot up to B tier. Granted I want more buffs but that's all he NEEDS. I'd love to see his mobility buffed. I'd love to see his grab and throws buffed. But Nair being safe on parry is all he NEEDS. Everything else would be icing on the cake. Actually no, make Aether harder to SDI ans the startup faster. That'd be fantastic.
In the Castlevania games, the game design philosophy behind the sluggish movement was to make the platforming experience more challenging. In Smash Bros, the game design philosophy behind the sluggish movement was because that's how it was in Castlevania games, and/or Sakurai doesn't know what he's doing
Great video, very well said. I've been a Kirby main since brawl and I've been wanting to push the character, I've been doing so in my local scene. I love seeing videos talking about low tiers I know you're a smaller channel, but really look into fixing your audio. You cut yourself off every other sentence and the clipping is really egregious. I'm not sure if your mic is going out, or your editing/mixing needs some work. Regardless I subbed, keep improving 👌
There is at least one Villain in Smash that's been ranked in the Low Tier since Melee. Melee = Bowser, Brawl = Ganondorf, Smash 4, Ganondorf, Ultimate, K. Rool and Ganondorf. If you wanna count King Dedede, then there's 2 Villains in Smash 4 and 3 in Ultimate
King K Rool is my main, i'm suprised how low tiered he is really, i know that he wouldn't be that high but it's shocking to me that he's almost at the very bottom...
The projectiles thing with most of these is definitely a part of the overall nerf to projectiles. It wasnt even one character, absolutely no character was spared.
Compared to the low tiers in other games. The Low tiers are actually pretty decent compared to past iterations. Sure they’re not the best but I know they are good enough. Its so balanced that there is barely one matchup where the certain character has one absolutely terrible matchup like Brawl Marth vs. Ness.
Ult's in a very weird grey spot with it's characters. Many of them feel kinda undercooked, but also the playerbase (IMO) isn't trying nearly hard enough with them. But that's probably not as new as it sound given the recent rise of Melee DK's.
If Charizard was still his own character it would have been really cool to have his ultimate be a gigantamax form and have him shoot out a max wildfire that would blast the stage and set part of it on fire for a little bit. It also could be cool if with mewtwo his ult was mega evolving. Maybe if you hold up while you do it goes to X and down to Y. You could make x a bit more bulky and increase its base attack damage since it gets a much higher physical attack boost in game. Then with Y you could make it faster and make special damage do more and maybe increase the range on his abilities using "psychic powers". Idk could have been cool. It technically would work for Charizard also just maybe give hie fire increased damage and could make his attacks deal extra fire damage also in X and then just make him harder hitting in Y.
I thought DK was considered a mid-tier in this game. He definitely seems better than a few mid tiers. Especially when Marth's inconsistent ass is a low-mid tier when he's kinda trash in ult.
I know i’m not the only person that to say a character shouldn’t be here But he actually has a lot that people don’t know about, specifically his edgeguarding and burst, his dair is one of the best edgeguarding tools in the game because of it’s disjointed long lasting nature, that is helped by it’s gimping prowess. His burst is also amazing because combined with shuriken you can really mixup the pace of the match, and punish a lot of moves that other characters can’t with moves like Gale Stab, and Power thrust. edit: When you talk about herospin, that’s the wrong upb in the picture, that’s skyward slash dash.
The fact you have Ike as low tire makes your entire video bullshit. Ike Air attacks are very good, he has two recover options with smash brothers ledge invincibility which is just bad in this game. As soon as you get close to the edge you have magnet hands, and you have like 5 seconds of complete invulnerability making any air spikes risky and pointless to do. Ike’s jabs and side attacks are not slow ether. His smash attacks are not bad at all. He’s a heavy weight who is fast so much so that he doesn’t even need a projectile.
I play Mewtwo a lot when I’m not competing, and while I think he’s really fun, the weaknesses are definitely there. I don’t think he’s low tier but he sadly can’t go much further than a low C-tier in my opinion Also Mii Swordfighter holds his own place for me because he was my first main ever. I dropped him after a while, but him being my first main means he’s not forgettable at all for me.
Out of all the low tiers I think kirby might be one of the better ones. His mobility and specials suck but his basic normal moves are actually pretty great, he has a punish game even if hes exploitable in other ways
Something most of these characters have in common is a poor combo game and advantage state, difficulty to approach due to bad movement and a difficulty to escape disadvantage state. They all have great moves with unic quality but their moveset as a whole sucking both in neutral, advantage and disadvantage alongside unic weaknesses such as Robin running out of ressources, Krool having his belly breaking, ... makes them terrible characters
The core issue with Ganon in high level play if you ask me is that Ganon's reward off of hits is amazing and he sacrifices everything to get that reward off a touch. But other characters have the same or better reward played optimally with none of the downsides. Kazuya is better at killing than Ganon and he's better at everything else too. With ganon's mobility and defense as bad as they are ganon would have to get much better reward to stand out. It's not like potemkin in strive where one good read puts you up 40% you have to get just as many reads as anyone else.
Yes I 100% agree, he's kinda like puff where is weaknesses are overextrated. But yeah both there perceptions are mixed. Some people think puff is high tier while others think puff is low mid. Same with kirby some people think he's low mid, or bottom 10. Personally I think there both underrated but kirby is heavily underrated by better players. Personally I think puff is high mid tier, while kirby is true mid tier.
Donkey Kong is the character that rised more this year with his results skyrocketting in 2 different areas/continent. He's high tier, you will see the light one day 🙏 He's considered bad/with a bad disadvantage only and purely because, for some reason, he has one of the largest playerbase and so a lot of inexperienced people play him and play him bad. Just fight against a really good one and tell me again that his presumably incredibly bad disadvantage is still a real issue in 90% of his mu. Again, this is the character that has rised more this year and at this late stage of the meta too and somehow is still called low tier... I say skill issue
Muteace, Light, Masa, Sparg0 those are the first people that came to my mind that were upsetted by Donkey Kong in offline bracket the past 3 months. Do they have bad advantage state (lol) and do they not know how to juggle him or kill him offstage??? Do they not know the mu??? It's only that this character is GOOD and he's even more good in a tournament setting because he puts A TON of pressure by just existing and what's even worst you cannot safely space around this character in neutral and you are forced to play 50/50 that never feel in your favor unless you play a very good zoner (and even in that case DK's mobility it's often enough to land an hit and kill the zoner because the character is that stupid lol). He's also extremely good at camping and not interacting which, together with the fact that again there is no safe space against him unless you can zone him out with projectiles that are the only thing capable of going head to head with him, makes everything even more threatening and tilting. You often end up diying at ridiculous percent by random kill options or you just have to sacrifice space control while he can just charge his giant punch shit. The only way to beat this character is by outplaying him from start to finish
Ok with bowser jr. i do not get it. I’ve gotta say, I agree with MockRock on this character. “After extensively trying to understand why Bowser Jr. is considered a bad character... I still don’t understand why Bowser Jr. is considered a bad character.” I feel like the main reasons people claim bowser jr is the worst character in the game is the fact that there a hardly anyone representing the fighter, it’s likely due to his limited fanbase and the lack of players willing to try him, me being a huge fan of bowser jr I’m currently striving to be one of the best players of the character and hopefully bring a new light to the character. Another big reason comes from how many people seem to dislike him, many pointing out how annoying Bowser jr is, this may lead to biased information. It’s clear that bowser jr has received some notable buffs and has had very few nerfs, the problem is that not a lot of people acknowledge that because that can’t look past the fact that Jr is there least favorite Nintendo character. Another reason is that he is probably the most slept on character from top players. Most of if not all professional players seem to only focus on the popular characters of ultimate, and this leads to mislead information on this fighter as they have no true experience on the character, but because they are “pro” players everyone believes them, and therefore people start spreading claims that this character is trash because Leffen or ZeRo said so. Bowser jr is the definition of underrated and overlooked, without a powerful community to back him up, he will continue to be slept on and be falsely claimed to be the worst of the game, and I’m taking that anyday or anytime. And same applies to isabelle. All she needs to be a high tier is more weight, a bigger and faster grab, and some buffs to fishing rod and lloid trap. Thats it. Thats all she needs. And i always thought she was a million times better than villager. Im shocked how long it took for everyone to realize
Despite such a surface level explanation of mac's issues you still somehow managed to get everything wrong on both the bad and good fronts. For one, he doesn't have some of the best frame data. People tend to see how fast his moves come out and assume that's really good, what people dont look at is total frames and shield lag. Little mac has terrible shield lag on almost all his moves, it's one of his biggest issues. And really points out his bad frame data Jab doesn't combo into anything despite being frame 1, and only creates 50/50's unless it's via a jab lock. Down tilt has too much end lag and sends at one of the worst, most di-able angles possible Up tilt for almost the entirety of ultimate was -3 on hit, with the second to last update making it 0 on hit, making it so it can really only combo into itself or other super fast moves at low percents. Obviously it can cause an up b kill on platforms but the percent range and timing is pretty tight. While his up special doesn't go far, his side special does and is similar to terry's. The issue is it doesn't reset on hit, meaning you have one chance. That's where the issues with his recovery lie, you have one chance. Down special does barely anything to help his recovery. Most of the time he can make it both with and without it, most people use it like any other counter, which it isn't even that good at doing that. The major buff to side special in this game is being able to jump, not up b. Directional air dodge doesn't benefit his recovery at all. Sure it's tied for fastest at frame 2, but it goes the 2nd least amout of distance out of any air dodge, beaten out only by bayonetta, but bayo's airdodge still helps because of witch time His grab isn't good, I don't know where that misconception came from, I have people I play in tournaments tell me it's good and like no. His throws aren't important parts of his combo game, and down throw isn't solid, it's niche. It has one kill confirm and that has even tighter timing than up tilt up b and doesn't work on anyone with a frame 2 air dodge Jab isnt faster it was frame 1 in 4 too, and in 4 rapid jab could be comboed into ko punch. Down tilt having more range means nothing if it has a significantly worse angle. By uppercut i assume you mean up b, while technically true more of his sm4sh kit could combo into it compared to ultimate. Also aerials were at their peak in 64, when z cancelling cancelled all landing lag and hitstun was massive
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Awesome video!
Swordfighter was hit by a car so that Brawler could drive
The pizza cutter is pretty good...
What does driving have to do with any if this !?!?
Real
But then what happened to Gunner?
@@SortaNonymous She's the car.
The amount of awful audio cuts in this video, it’s so frustrating
An ult low tier eould be a mid tier in any other game
Imagine mii gunner in melee waveshining people
@@simplyeyeronic1443Imagine melee Samus with shine and that's what you'll get
@@anwnerd1762 Nope, its far stronger
Give Little Mac 5 jumps🙏🙏
7 jumps?
9 jumps?
11 jumps?
@@themartiangobi 1 jump☠️
1M jump?
HOW DOES BRO CUT HIMSELF OFF SO MUCH 😭
I was joking when I heard it like once, then all of a sudden every other line would be cut off at the end 😭
Most of the time it doesn't matter that much, but then it does, which sucks.
I’m glad someone else noticed brother can’t finish a constant to save his life 😭
It seems like an editing or rendering mistake. The cuts seem to have cut out a bit at the end of everything (to a varying extent).
@@The_DGO Yeah, that's why I said that doesn't matter MOST of the time, I think.
CUZ SOMETIMES I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE SAID 😭
its bothering me so much
@@raytraxdtm It bothers me none.
I still think Mewtwo being low tier in Ultimate is incorrect. The character has done some good work in the competitive scene, and overall, Mewtwo is super unexplored.
I never saw it. Everytime i play him i can never get a hit on anyone
He could maybe be higher. But holy shit no that tail hurtbox is horrendous. Some people have tried saying “its not that bad”… ye- yes it is. Any move thats in the same zip code can hit mewtwo. Yesterday i played mewtwo online and barely got any hits in because of how horrendous the hitbox is. And maybe it wouldn’t be so bad if mewtwo wasnt the 7th lightest and was floaty as shit. Meaning he also has a horrible landing and abysmal disadvantage state. Not even tech can save him. Footstool-disable can only help so much.
I’m sorry but Mewtwo is in low tier for a reason
I think that speaks more to the fact that most of ultimate's roster can do work if piloted by the right player, mewtwo has several weaknesses that keep him as a low tier but it doesn't mean a good mewtwo main can't get some results
His tail is what’s ultimately holding him back. I versed a mewtwo online the other day and my f-tilt hit the mewtwo, despite the fact that he completely rolled behind me.
Mewtwo has the Lowest player base in the game right now. So it's really bad.
The low tiers are the best they've ever been ultimate, it's just look at how hard the upper third of the cast can cheat. Dedede's inhale now reflecting doesn't really compare to a Joker Arsene or MinMin just deleting you from across the stage or Steve just existing. Power creep is criminal in this game
They gave Kazuya a reflector too. The fastest heavy to date with a 0 - death combo gets a better reflector than DDD.
and 4 and 64
I like to think there's a parallel universe we're Isabelle ends up winning an EVO Tournament
Ganondorf in Smash is just sad. He's the King of Evil, yet he ends up being bottom-tier in three games in a row.
Smash is a game centered around mobility, which is something Ganondorf just doesn't have at all. I really wish they'd finally redesign his kit. Maybe it'd be enough for him to not be awful???
@@IamNstermaybe if smash wasn’t so lazy they could’ve changed his moveset completely. I only say lazy because he is largely a slower and heavier captain flacon clone
However he is bonkers fun to play in ultimate
@@jay-no9qq i dont know how them being not lazy would fix that necessarily.
@@lampad4549 redesign his moveset
Out of all the characters in this video, Mewtwo, Isabelle, Zelda, Kirby, and Mii Swordfighter have mid tier potential.
Imo just Mewtwo and maybe MSF. The rest are just so outclassed
Yes and DK
I absolutely agree about Kirby. He's extremely explosive in the right hands and can legitimately turn a losing Match-up into an even or winning one with copy ability. Samus Kirby is legitimately one of the scariest threats in the game, and Monado Kirby may as well be top tier, or at least very high tier xD
@@bigtoblerone8446DK can cook thats for sure
Zelda so underrated.. like she can shield break you if you can teleport cancel and create 50/50 situation to kill your opponent ..
“In the entire ca-“
"dins fi-"
I have a friend who I used to play Ultimate with a lot. He mains Little Mac. You would not believe how much he would pop off every time he successfully recovered with Little Mac.
What made it a bit extra funny to me is that I almost always play characters with great recovery like Pit.
did you change editors/are you the editor? it feels like all of your sentences are cut off at the end. i dont remember it being this way previously
Any character can easily win a local
True even ganondorf
But that's cuz we all suck at the game. 🤷🏻
even melee Bowser can win locals. Still, not to say that Ganon and Mac are equal to melee Bowser
@@DragonWaffleX Yeah at locals most people kinda suck(my self included) and there are a few that are way too good
It always annoyed me how people think Isabelle is worse than Villager, to which I disagree with. She's decent at best, but she is far from the worst. Not sure what people were smoking with that take
Well she's entirely lacking lloid sideb, which is a +30 on shield massive slow moving projectile. Thats bad
@@chrispo7610 IDK, having a fishing rod at least makes her a bit unique than having another rocket side B. It just needs a bit of a buff, maybe have it so that Isabelle can reel the rod back faster so she doesn't get nearly as punished.
It's a nice way to mix recovery options too unlike Villager who imo has a very linear recovery
Trying to choose who is better is hard. Because their tools are identical and their not in the same archetype. But I think we can all agree that villager is better
I still don't get why Villager has a walljump and Isabelle doesn't. Sure, she has a tether but Villager's side special is also used for recovery. It's confusing just like how Luigi can't walljump compared to Mario. 😵💫
@@Goofy-Mario64 I disagree as Isabelle does have some tools that make her far better (such as Nair and Up tilt) , but at that point, we'll just leave it at that. Agree to disagree
Simon and richet where seen as top tiers at the start of ultimate. They have the largest fall of in the game
Ganondorf and king k rool, also fell of hard
Ike too
@@gv82089 Pichu too
Yeah, but these characters where from mid/high tier to a low tier, and pichu was from top tier to a mid tier, simon and richter where from top tiers from low tiers
Isabelle is the REAL underDOG!! 0:44
This was a really good vi
Love the depth you went into with all of the charac
Your voice cuts out a lot throughout this video leaving words cut off. Not a big deal but you also repeated the same points a few times. Good video though. I'm surprised Incineroar wasn't mentioned.
Incineroar's mid tier according to the tier list
@@icykuikinu6757 Yeah, I realized some time after my comment that he had jumped up a lot in tier since I last looked into them. Hadn't followed the game for a while.
Hot Take: Mewtwo, Ike and Kirby should not be THAT Low. I mean sure they have some flaws, but in my opinion they should be Mid Tier AT LEAST. Feel free to argue.
ike recovery go brrrrrrrrrr
tbh. it is not even THAT bad. Side B can be really solid sometimes, since you can kinda play around with it and making your opponent guess if you either recover high or to ledge. (But yes, his UP-B recovery is very exploitable. I agree.)
Ike is the most predictable character in the game, learn how to anti air or parry Nair and his entire gameplan falls apart. He's slow, he has like 1 kill confirm except that has like a 7% window lol
Mewtwo and Kirby are definitely not low tiers tho
Although he has other combo starters like Down-Tilt, Up/Down-Throw and Up-Air, yes Ike can be very predictable. Especially when his opponent knows how to parry, but to be honest it kind of depends which Ike you are fighting up against. If they spam N-Air over and over again, then yeah he is predictable. But if they mixup with tilts, grabs and aerials they can keep the opponent guessing.
Not even that hot of take imo honestly ❤
Ganondorf, my dear king, one day you shall rise to the top. Until then I'm gonna have to main Bowser cause you are too slow, even for me XD
Did you have issues with your mic? I hear it muting randomly while you talk
the editing… gosh it’s so bad
What the hell are you talking about? It’s really well done editing that most people can’t do
@@Aidswayz 50% of the sentences don’t even end? they’re just chopped off abruptly? idk im just being “honest”
@@Lambs4lyfOh you mean that. Gotcha that’s fair. I thought you meant like the visual editing. My bad
My friend has filed a restraining order against isabelle because he doesn't know how to play against the fishing rod
Besides zelda’s frames holding her back in comparison to the rest of the cast, the air dodge system really fucked her over too. She mostly loses in the air especially vs disjoints. It’s especially noticeable when a character is able to miss an aerial but still have time to land and punish your airdodge before it ends. It’s also crazy how the glass cannon archetype is pretty much pointless when new characters are killing at 40% off a stray hit from a move with a giant hitbox and little lag.
I love the video and its clear you puts lots of effort in which I appreciate. My only advice would be to minimize the movement you do while one screen. You fidget a lot which makes you come off as lacking confidence, and is distracting. Loved the vid tho :)
3:17 Who?
Who?
The great thing about these low tiers is that most of them can be seen as viable and can make a good run in tournaments except ganon and like ddd. DK is one of the best examples since there has been a DK Renaissance lately with high level DK mains making big upsets over top players like Sparg0, Hurt, Light, and MuteAce with Rarikkusu, Mairudona, ChunkyKong, and Duplex, respectively.
YES! no way is DK bottom 8! If this same tier list from the same players were made today, their opinions would be different on DK becuz of the renaissance.
The content of the video is good but the editing was poorly done.
There are a lot of audio cuts, and some background music doesn't go well with the scenes.
I'm not sure if you have an editor or edit the videos by yourself but I think you should to keep these things in mind next time you post a video.
Other than that, great content.
As a Smash 4 Villager main, a character falling off in a fading meta getting nerfed hard in the next game feels rough. Doesn't help that the engine got faster
Ganondorf being so bad is what nakes him so good though.
Wrecking people with the "worst" character will never get tiresome.
Ganondorf is the only character in smash history to be dead last in two different games. That is both funny and sad
Arguably three.
Mewtwo isn’t that bad, he’s just pretty gimmicky and a little hard to play
Robin being slow ties back to his role in Fire Emblem Awakening. His role on the battlefield was to serve as a tactician, and not even someone who regularly got into combat. Obviously, you could make the player character powerful in combat, but lore-wise he was meant to guide units and and give orders. That's why his arsenal in Smash is so varied, he's not supposed to excel at anything but be a jack of all trades. His slow movements lend towards his strengths of area denial and make positioning him correctly more important.
That's _really_ not how it plays out in high-level gameplay. Robin absolutely carries entire playthroughs on higher difficulties, from what I hear.
Forgot to mention how Dr. Mario intially was highly perceived in early Ultimate like with Ike, most especially when Mario had been nerfed & became a watered down version of his Smash 4 iteration, & like Ike, overtime Dr. Mario heavily fell off as the meta evolved & players start to really see his weaknesses.
Ironically, overall, Dr. Mario has way better moves than Mario like pills, Dr. Tornado, up b as a kill option, back throw, & forward air. It's most especially despite Mario being better, Dr. Mario is a lot more fun to play given his kit (it does add in how Ultimate Mario is basically a watered down version of Smash 4 Mario, which results in making Mario feel less fun to play). For sure if Doc had improved mobility & better up b distance, he'd have better perception.
Honestly, Doc could've at least be better than Luigi had it not been for Luigi's insane grab game (literally Doc is actually faster than Luigi in the air)
Kirby... My boy im still waiting for your reworked move set and i aint dying until it happens in anything related to smash even if its a fan game
K Rool to me is a good character only when you use every single one of his tools to good use
Ike is a character a person who hasn’t played smash can easily pick up and win with on accident. He’s honestly not as bad as what people say. The whole “recovery” ploy excuse, with him being bad is total BS too. If anything it balances is range and strength.
wtf i genuinely had no idea robin was so slow, 2nd slowest dash is actually crazy
I think they should make Robin the fastest character in the game both on the ground and in the air.
Ah yes, because that totally makes sense, it's not like the "fastest thing alive" happens to be in the game, right?
It would be hard for me to run as well if I had on a large cloak and bulky leggings. The speediest version of Robin in fire emblem (heroes🤓) ditches both of those things for something lighter. He could levitate but that is too complicated for him lore-wise! It's hard enough for people to recognize him as it is so we are stuck with his default look aaaaaaaaaa 😭😖😱
@@mastamelon I was joking. Although I would actually like him to get a speed buff, I was exaggerating when I said I want him to be the fastest in the game.
@@gogocrazycocoa Yeah I knowww but I couldn't help but think about it because it could be possible!!!
@@mastamelon Ah, okay. I thought you didn't get the joke and were explaining why it didn't make sense. I know nothing about Fire Emblem so hearing you explaining why was pretty interesting I just misunderstood your intent. Sorry about that!
What material is in Robin's sword that is slowing him down?
Who?
IMO kirby is not bad but he definitely has his drawbacks
Watch a kirby vs any zoner matchup and you’ll see why he’s terrible
@@elchad8635 Compadre, estás exagerando
@@elchad8635bro, his crouch is so low, he can literally duck under samus misslie, young link fire arrow, wolf laser, megaman lemons, etc.
And Kirby's air speed does suck, but he actually has one of the faster dashing speeds in the game so you combine that with dtilt, turnaround utilt, and angled ftilts being busted for starting combos, tripping, or setting up tech chases, and you have a better than low tier character imo. Optimized Kirby combos and extensions once he gets in on you lead you from like 0 to 70 my dude
Yes Kirby is weak against zoners... that doesn't make him terrible. Most characters struggle with certain match-ups man. @@elchad8635
DeDeDe is the best character in the game, acording to my siblings. No matter how they play and what character they play, they CANNOT defeat my Dedede. It got to the point that they got so angry i had to stop playing him.
Hell, nice vid!
However i got some notes 2 add.
Villager: hes more of a trapper than a true zoner. Unlike isabell who is more agressive, villagers tricks must be played around. All villagers moves are used to get people into a position to take massive damage or to get sent offstage. If you try to only camp you will lose as villy
Villager is way better at ledgetrapping and edgegarding.
Villagers recovery doesnt run out fast at all. The flaw is that it leaves him vulnurable in the air, he cant attack or cancel his up b and still recover.
His main weakness is chars that avoid his traps, reflectors, and strong rushdown chars. Having disjoints or swords alone wont beat villager.
Villager is also Very Slow
Villager is prob still better than isabel tbh.
4 sword fighter i use 2113.
That fixes most of swordis issues.
Hell play more like a swordfighter/rushdown.
Only his smash attacks are laggy but they dont kill early like most.
he still has issues that include being outranged, killed early and being outdamaged.
Its not a terrible char unlike what most will tell you. Hes pretts OK.
Ikes main problem is that hes predictable and fairly easy to counterplay.
WE GETTING (brutally) HONEST WITH THIS ONE🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Dk is mid tier at WORST and i will die on this hill
I love how some of my favorite characters to play as are on this list which means im making my games harder
Jrs cannonball is just misunderstood.
It's so good for stage control and mind games. Jr is all about forcing options, faking approaches. Having a slow moving, heavy hitting projectile compliments his kit great imo.
It's not good at hitting, but it's good at getting the opponent into a predictable position.
28:22 Ganondorf has literally never used that sword before. It’s from a tech demo lmao. The only other time he used 1 sword before was twilight princess and that wasn’t even his sword
He used a katana in totk now, but he also used a club, spear, and bow to match link’s 3 melee weapons and bow from BotW/TotK
Zelda is a case of 2 steps forward one step back while most of the cast took 3 steps foward. The devs didn't address some of her more pressing issues like her poor disadvantage, near complete lack of safety on shield, and mediocre range and mobility. They also completely nerfed nair and down tilt. The first by swapping out autolink hitboxs for a bunch of small angled hitbox and the second by making the knockback significantly more horizontal.
Everyone likes to laugh at Isabelle when she's not around with Doomguy.
Dude you've really gotta stop cutting yourself o-
I've been an Ike main since Brawl.
Without a shadow of a doubt Ultimate Ike is the least bad version of Ike other than PM/P+. I'm honestly convinced the only buff Ike really needs is for nair to be safe on shield AND parry. If we got that he'd shoot up to B tier.
Granted I want more buffs but that's all he NEEDS. I'd love to see his mobility buffed. I'd love to see his grab and throws buffed. But Nair being safe on parry is all he NEEDS. Everything else would be icing on the cake.
Actually no, make Aether harder to SDI ans the startup faster. That'd be fantastic.
In the Castlevania games, the game design philosophy behind the sluggish movement was to make the platforming experience more challenging. In Smash Bros, the game design philosophy behind the sluggish movement was because that's how it was in Castlevania games, and/or Sakurai doesn't know what he's doing
12:57 when regular Zelda hit red Zelda, red Zelda teleported to melee 😂
Great video, very well said. I've been a Kirby main since brawl and I've been wanting to push the character, I've been doing so in my local scene. I love seeing videos talking about low tiers
I know you're a smaller channel, but really look into fixing your audio. You cut yourself off every other sentence and the clipping is really egregious. I'm not sure if your mic is going out, or your editing/mixing needs some work.
Regardless I subbed, keep improving 👌
There is at least one Villain in Smash that's been ranked in the Low Tier since Melee. Melee = Bowser, Brawl = Ganondorf, Smash 4, Ganondorf, Ultimate, K. Rool and Ganondorf. If you wanna count King Dedede, then there's 2 Villains in Smash 4 and 3 in Ultimate
@@StanleySophana technically Dk was a villian before smash 64, and Dk was a low tier
King K Rool is my main, i'm suprised how low tiered he is really, i know that he wouldn't be that high but it's shocking to me that he's almost at the very bottom...
Kirby is my favorite Super Smash Brothers character!
As someone who mains both DK and King K. Rool, it does suck that both of them are painfully outclassed by other characters in this game.
Pick a different character
Smash video ~
**tf2 music plays**
(I love it)
Doc doesnt have anymore landing lag than Mario
On Nair, Bair and Up-Air, he does.
Tbh I think Duck Hunt among others being mid tier is a stretch. That being said tho, low tiers aren't that bad in this game... save for Mac and Ganon
The projectiles thing with most of these is definitely a part of the overall nerf to projectiles. It wasnt even one character, absolutely no character was spared.
Ganondorf also got Ganoncide nerfed. Now HE dies first!
8:49 i think he got kidnapped and replaced with an identical clone
I'll never forget when I saw a post of a Steve main genuinely complaining about Little Mac and how annoying he was to fight
Lol, lmao even
HE SLIGHTLY COMPLIMENTED MY GOAT ISABELLE
Compared to the low tiers in other games. The Low tiers are actually pretty decent compared to past iterations. Sure they’re not the best but I know they are good enough. Its so balanced that there is barely one matchup where the certain character has one absolutely terrible matchup like Brawl Marth vs. Ness.
I flat out refuse to believe piranha plant is that low on the tierlist.
Ult's in a very weird grey spot with it's characters.
Many of them feel kinda undercooked, but also the playerbase (IMO) isn't trying nearly hard enough with them.
But that's probably not as new as it sound given the recent rise of Melee DK's.
As a Ganondorf main, I refuse to believe he is the worst character in the game 😅. I think little Mac and dr.Mario are worse!
It feels like a testament to Ultimate’s quality that even the low tiers still feel like they work, even when they are a great disadvantage.
Honestly Simon and Ricter are lore accurate, if you've played classic Castlevania you know the frustrating movement
27:53 Anybody gonna bring up Mac standing on literally NOTHING?
I think despite having the most amount of characters, this game has the most balanced roster of them all.
If Charizard was still his own character it would have been really cool to have his ultimate be a gigantamax form and have him shoot out a max wildfire that would blast the stage and set part of it on fire for a little bit.
It also could be cool if with mewtwo his ult was mega evolving. Maybe if you hold up while you do it goes to X and down to Y. You could make x a bit more bulky and increase its base attack damage since it gets a much higher physical attack boost in game. Then with Y you could make it faster and make special damage do more and maybe increase the range on his abilities using "psychic powers". Idk could have been cool. It technically would work for Charizard also just maybe give hie fire increased damage and could make his attacks deal extra fire damage also in X and then just make him harder hitting in Y.
I thought DK was considered a mid-tier in this game. He definitely seems better than a few mid tiers. Especially when Marth's inconsistent ass is a low-mid tier when he's kinda trash in ult.
For people that complain about low tiers in Ultimate, go play some Ness on Slippi so you can see how beautifully balanced Melee is lmao
DK Has a Really Bad Disadvantage.
Straight Combo Food😭😭
but it doesn't matter unless you get the kill. Even then DK is one of the more reliable comeback characters with how quickly he opens up stocks.
@@omegafreddy12 ❤️
But funny monkey
I think Kaz might low key have the worse disadvantage state like wtf is bro gonna do when I send him off stage? Laser me?
I know i’m not the only person that to say a character shouldn’t be here
But he actually has a lot that people don’t know about, specifically his edgeguarding and burst, his dair is one of the best edgeguarding tools in the game because of it’s disjointed long lasting nature, that is helped by it’s gimping prowess.
His burst is also amazing because combined with shuriken you can really mixup the pace of the match, and punish a lot of moves that other characters can’t with moves like Gale Stab, and Power thrust.
edit: When you talk about herospin, that’s the wrong upb in the picture, that’s skyward slash dash.
The fact you have Ike as low tire makes your entire video bullshit. Ike Air attacks are very good, he has two recover options with smash brothers ledge invincibility which is just bad in this game. As soon as you get close to the edge you have magnet hands, and you have like 5 seconds of complete invulnerability making any air spikes risky and pointless to do. Ike’s jabs and side attacks are not slow ether. His smash attacks are not bad at all. He’s a heavy weight who is fast so much so that he doesn’t even need a projectile.
I am utterly shocked that Pichu has avoided getting tossed in here
It's crazy because he used to be a top tier
@@ZachHonestThen he got nerfed and even then now he's mid- low mid tier because they gave him a lot of kill power
I play Mewtwo a lot when I’m not competing, and while I think he’s really fun, the weaknesses are definitely there. I don’t think he’s low tier but he sadly can’t go much further than a low C-tier in my opinion
Also Mii Swordfighter holds his own place for me because he was my first main ever. I dropped him after a while, but him being my first main means he’s not forgettable at all for me.
Another based video dropped alao love the TF2 music in the beganing.
Out of all the low tiers I think kirby might be one of the better ones. His mobility and specials suck but his basic normal moves are actually pretty great, he has a punish game even if hes exploitable in other ways
Something most of these characters have in common is a poor combo game and advantage state, difficulty to approach due to bad movement and a difficulty to escape disadvantage state. They all have great moves with unic quality but their moveset as a whole sucking both in neutral, advantage and disadvantage alongside unic weaknesses such as Robin running out of ressources, Krool having his belly breaking, ... makes them terrible characters
The core issue with Ganon in high level play if you ask me is that Ganon's reward off of hits is amazing and he sacrifices everything to get that reward off a touch. But other characters have the same or better reward played optimally with none of the downsides. Kazuya is better at killing than Ganon and he's better at everything else too. With ganon's mobility and defense as bad as they are ganon would have to get much better reward to stand out. It's not like potemkin in strive where one good read puts you up 40% you have to get just as many reads as anyone else.
As a Belmond Main, Simon has better matchups than Ritcher, but is not that big, Snake and Link are better for Simon
Kirby is mid tier, and players like Jeja and Guilheww continue to prove it. Kirby fits in with the other mid tiers and is just as viable.
Yes I 100% agree, he's kinda like puff where is weaknesses are overextrated. But yeah both there perceptions are mixed. Some people think puff is high tier while others think puff is low mid. Same with kirby some people think he's low mid, or bottom 10. Personally I think there both underrated but kirby is heavily underrated by better players. Personally I think puff is high mid tier, while kirby is true mid tier.
K rool is not a bottom tier and I will not change my mind
Donkey Kong is the character that rised more this year with his results skyrocketting in 2 different areas/continent. He's high tier, you will see the light one day 🙏 He's considered bad/with a bad disadvantage only and purely because, for some reason, he has one of the largest playerbase and so a lot of inexperienced people play him and play him bad. Just fight against a really good one and tell me again that his presumably incredibly bad disadvantage is still a real issue in 90% of his mu. Again, this is the character that has rised more this year and at this late stage of the meta too and somehow is still called low tier... I say skill issue
Muteace, Light, Masa, Sparg0 those are the first people that came to my mind that were upsetted by Donkey Kong in offline bracket the past 3 months. Do they have bad advantage state (lol) and do they not know how to juggle him or kill him offstage??? Do they not know the mu??? It's only that this character is GOOD and he's even more good in a tournament setting because he puts A TON of pressure by just existing and what's even worst you cannot safely space around this character in neutral and you are forced to play 50/50 that never feel in your favor unless you play a very good zoner (and even in that case DK's mobility it's often enough to land an hit and kill the zoner because the character is that stupid lol). He's also extremely good at camping and not interacting which, together with the fact that again there is no safe space against him unless you can zone him out with projectiles that are the only thing capable of going head to head with him, makes everything even more threatening and tilting. You often end up diying at ridiculous percent by random kill options or you just have to sacrifice space control while he can just charge his giant punch shit. The only way to beat this character is by outplaying him from start to finish
The King of Desrepeat will Rise up time and time again to be a high or med tier some day..
Ive always thought that ganondorfs down special should either destroy or reflect projectiles
Cries for my friend in robin
robin is slow because he's a tactician and doesn't exercise
Ok with bowser jr. i do not get it. I’ve gotta say, I agree with MockRock on this character.
“After extensively trying to understand why Bowser Jr. is considered a bad character... I still don’t understand why Bowser Jr. is considered a bad character.”
I feel like the main reasons people claim bowser jr is the worst character in the game is the fact that there a hardly anyone representing the fighter, it’s likely due to his limited fanbase and the lack of players willing to try him, me being a huge fan of bowser jr I’m currently striving to be one of the best players of the character and hopefully bring a new light to the character. Another big reason comes from how many people seem to dislike him, many pointing out how annoying Bowser jr is, this may lead to biased information. It’s clear that bowser jr has received some notable buffs and has had very few nerfs, the problem is that not a lot of people acknowledge that because that can’t look past the fact that Jr is there least favorite Nintendo character. Another reason is that he is probably the most slept on character from top players. Most of if not all professional players seem to only focus on the popular characters of ultimate, and this leads to mislead information on this fighter as they have no true experience on the character, but because they are “pro” players everyone believes them, and therefore people start spreading claims that this character is trash because Leffen or ZeRo said so. Bowser jr is the definition of underrated and overlooked, without a powerful community to back him up, he will continue to be slept on and be falsely claimed to be the worst of the game, and I’m taking that anyday or anytime.
And same applies to isabelle. All she needs to be a high tier is more weight, a bigger and faster grab, and some buffs to fishing rod and lloid trap. Thats it. Thats all she needs. And i always thought she was a million times better than villager. Im shocked how long it took for everyone to realize
What video did mockrock say this in?
@@anwnerd1762 i do not remember
Despite such a surface level explanation of mac's issues you still somehow managed to get everything wrong on both the bad and good fronts.
For one, he doesn't have some of the best frame data. People tend to see how fast his moves come out and assume that's really good, what people dont look at is total frames and shield lag. Little mac has terrible shield lag on almost all his moves, it's one of his biggest issues. And really points out his bad frame data
Jab doesn't combo into anything despite being frame 1, and only creates 50/50's unless it's via a jab lock.
Down tilt has too much end lag and sends at one of the worst, most di-able angles possible
Up tilt for almost the entirety of ultimate was -3 on hit, with the second to last update making it 0 on hit, making it so it can really only combo into itself or other super fast moves at low percents. Obviously it can cause an up b kill on platforms but the percent range and timing is pretty tight.
While his up special doesn't go far, his side special does and is similar to terry's. The issue is it doesn't reset on hit, meaning you have one chance. That's where the issues with his recovery lie, you have one chance.
Down special does barely anything to help his recovery. Most of the time he can make it both with and without it, most people use it like any other counter, which it isn't even that good at doing that.
The major buff to side special in this game is being able to jump, not up b.
Directional air dodge doesn't benefit his recovery at all. Sure it's tied for fastest at frame 2, but it goes the 2nd least amout of distance out of any air dodge, beaten out only by bayonetta, but bayo's airdodge still helps because of witch time
His grab isn't good, I don't know where that misconception came from, I have people I play in tournaments tell me it's good and like no. His throws aren't important parts of his combo game, and down throw isn't solid, it's niche. It has one kill confirm and that has even tighter timing than up tilt up b and doesn't work on anyone with a frame 2 air dodge
Jab isnt faster it was frame 1 in 4 too, and in 4 rapid jab could be comboed into ko punch.
Down tilt having more range means nothing if it has a significantly worse angle.
By uppercut i assume you mean up b, while technically true more of his sm4sh kit could combo into it compared to ultimate.
Also aerials were at their peak in 64, when z cancelling cancelled all landing lag and hitstun was massive