Это видео недоступно.
Сожалеем об этом.
Buying a cat was harder than we thought...
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 12 авг 2024
- Conversion for cruising: • Converting a Bareboat ...
Boat tour: • Leopard 46 Catamaran B...
5 deals, 4 surveys, almost a year of shopping to find our current boat. We learned a lot!
iTunes Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Consulting: www.sailclarity.com/consulting
Squarespace - 14 day free trial: squarespace.syuh.net/AvmDj
Private Fb Group: / 475364229906600
Products we use: www.amazon.com/shop/nickokelly
Website: www.sailclarity.com
___
Nick's Books and Audiobooks:
Get Her on Board is about getting that significant other to buy into this cruising nonsense. People seem to like it. All proceeds go to our dog Sugar.
Audiobook: www.audible.com/pd/B00CIE9I1I...
Book:
www.amazon.com/dp/0578057298/...
Live on the Margin is about making money on the go trading stocks and options. I co-wrote it with Pat Schulte of Bumfuzzle. People seem to like that one too. All proceeds donated to our boat.
Audiobook: www.audible.com/pd/B00CMCGHPQ...
Book:
www.amazon.com/dp/0578116642/...
Audiobooks:
Bumfuzzle - Just out Looking for Pirates.
You know these guys, and now you know me, so have a listen.
www.audible.com/pd/B00CWJISRE...
Bound for Distant Seas, by James Baldwin
James is the real deal and this his story of adventure aboard a small, simple boat.
www.audible.com/pd/B015HQBDWU...
__
Why aren’t there more videos like this ??? Amazing job. Well done and thank you.
This is a brutal but honest extremely well presented Vlog. Excellent work. Thank you 👍
Why can't everyone be as honest about sail boating? This is really excellent. I do greatly appreciate honest people who give you through true story.
Aww thank you so much, totally agree with you.
I’m starting to love this channel b/c you’re so informative & the narration is on point (not boring at all).
Hey thanks for that. Trying to be useful on here. The world doesn't need yet another sailing channel. :) Appreciate your support! Nick
I agree on your choice! Comfort is everything, Passages can be tough without more Sea torture!
Yeh this boat is plenty fast enough for us. The FAST boats? We would need crew to do more than one hour watches. Thanks for the comment Michael.
The O'Kelly's oh that’s interesting to know! Thanks!
Nick, I've seen many videos on buying a catamaran, but I've never heard anyone talk about "residual value" as a buying consideration. Yes, it is a depreciating asset but we wanted to use it for a limited span (10-12 yrs) then sell it, and we wanted to make sure we got as much as we can, projecting a selling price over the ownership span and coming up with an annual cost of ownership that would be as small as possible. We too were looking at ex-charters and "fixer-uppers", but we quickly realized a heavily-used 22 year old charter boat would sell for next to nothing. We raised our sights to boats 5-10 years old, non-charter owners versions meticulously maintained. Yes the entry price was now closer to half-million but we get a boat meticulously maintained over the years and likely to hold about 70-80% of purchase price over the ownership span. I have an accepted offer now on a 45 ft production cat that we will begin sailing soon. I will let you know how this strategy plays out, but I think we're making a good decision here.
What a thoughtful comment. I really appreciate it. In the spirit of interesting discussion and with absolutely no criticism of your decision (because I’d have done the same if we could have afforded it), let me say that in my opinion, it depends most importantly on what specific boat you choose to invest in. I’d like to question a couple of assumptions: one is that all owners versions are in better condition than charter versions. In my limited experience, the condition of owners versions varies widely, as do charter boats. While the charterboat may have more scratches and dings, they are inspected and serviced regularly (even if not to the standards you and I would choose), while owners versions can (note I didn't say all or even many) spend long periods completely inactive, which is just terrible for a boat and her systems. Owners versions can (there is that word again) have much more costly problems over time due to lack of use: corroded fuel tanks because they were filled only once a season, engine and saildrive problems because of stagnant seawater, electrical corrosion from lack of ventilation, refrigeration problems from settled coolant in the lines, pumps gummed from never cycling, etc. etc. etc. from lack of use. I think it's better to consider each individual boat because I personally know of two owners version L46s that have had tons and tons more show-stopping problems than we have ever had. So that is one premise I'd like to question.
Second is the notion that a charterboat is going be worth next to nothing in 20 years. Two problems there: we don't yet know the longevity of many of these modern cat builds. Privately some surveyors laugh and cringe at the techniques used to adhere and assemble some of the giant boats being built today. So to say that a newer Lagoon 600x (or whatever, I don’t mean to single them out) is better than a ten year old FP…I just don’t think we can say that…yet. Secondly, I don’t think the data really supports an infinite depreciation curve for charter cats. It looks to me (and I am generalizing) that used cats tend to settle in the 50% of replacement value if maintained. A new L45 ready for Moorings is going to set you back about $550K, and a 2000 L45 (in yacht condition, so we can compare apples to apples) is going to be about $260K. That’s a 20 year old boat right there.
I think you are smart to go for the owners version for one very important reason: liquidity. The owners versions are less common and are perceived as a rarer species. That will always make them more sought after. So while I might question the overall cost of ownership differences, I believe that the owners version is always going to be easier to sell, which is important. Megan and I chose the charter version because we couldn’t afford the owners version. Had we been able to, I certainly would have. This has got to be the longest response on a youtube comment, ever. Thanks again and I hope to see and hear how it goes down for you. I am always wanting to learn, so correct me in my own assumptions.
@@TheOKellys thanks for your prompt reply! And yes, my surveyor plans to pay special attention to the items you identified, as well as hull/rig integrity, etc. I was referring to charter boats being more likely to have hull issues due to grounding, along with standing rig/sail/mast issues due to the fact that the charter customers are often 1) only occasional sailors, and 2) are not schooled in the fine workings of the boat as there is only so much that can be accomplished in a quickie 30 minute briefing prior to charter kickoff. So I guess the owner's version would imply a more serious sailor that has actually read all the operations manuals and knows how NOT to damage the boat or its associated equipment. But thanks much for your feedback!
I agree with what you are saying. Having seen this stuff with my own eyes, things like glasswork needed for dock dings or even collisions or groundings....that stuff is actually pretty easy and (relatively) inexpensive to repair - it doesn't really even take that much skill. Rig, sail, mast issues....that is more expensive, but usually a binary issue: either it works or it is damaged and needs replacement....there isn't a ton of "maintenance" required. Buuuuuuuutttt...when it comes to engines, mechanicals, electrical, plumbing, etc., etc., etc, there is a huge spectrum of skill needed to keep those systems up. If anything, I would say that private boats suffer more with system maintenance and integrity. So, again in my very limited experience, I have seen many private, owners version boats that look much much nicer than charter versions, but have more problems with their systems. What you need to find is the owner who is absolutely meticulous, uses the boat continuously or lives aboard, and is willing to let you adopt his/her baby. Lol. But it sounds like you are on the right track with the surveyor. Let me know how it all turns out!
Even hunting for smaller boats can be a trial. Checked out one on the hard that 3 inches of water in the cabin. Another boat was absolutely beautiful for a great price, but the keel boats were little piles of rust. Travel to check these things out in person can be expensive, but cheaper in the long run. In the end decided to do one more season with our current boat.
Yeh it's tough at any price point. I guess it was harder for us this time since we didn't have any real catamaran experience.
one of the best cat review vids ive seen, to the point, and detailed. excellent narration. subscribed.
Thank you. Glad to have you with us!
Excellent video. I had "feelings" about some of these but nothing sure. Your lessons have given me the solid reasoning I was looking for. Invaluable! Thank you!
Really helpful. Loved the what it took to fix it up video too. My wife and I are West Coast/Carib sailors in our 60s and about to retire maybe on a cat in the Carib. Your videos answered a lot of questions. Thanks!
Thank you Steve. Some hard-won wisdom here and there I hope. We love love love the west coast and especially Sea of Cortez/Banderas Bay (we were married there in Bucerias), but I gotta tell you, for the clear, warm water and mostly good sailing wind....well, it is pretty nice over here... Hope we see you out here. Let me know if I can answer any specific questions. BEst, Nick
Thanks for making this video and putting in the amount of detail you did (the slamming of the waves on that one boat was crazy!).
Thank you! Sailed great, but yeh the bridgedeck slamming was a no-go! Nick O
Great Job Nick, I feel that I learned a life time of "Experience" I almost bought Joseph Wambach's racing sloup in 76, but the wife got sea sick and did not want to live on board, so we didn't , and yes, she was that pretty! the boat wasn't bad either. Thank you for the information, I will follow you. I have another favorite couple, La Vagabond, but you are like the 80 year old Sea Captain compaired to them, but I love them, I live through them. Happy I have found you, you have a new family member now, thanks again, you did a great job.
Keith, you won't guess who is moored a couple boats over from us right now down here in the Abacos, but your other favorite couple (plus child)! Quite a coincidence and their boat is a stunner for sure! The 80 year old sea captain....hahahahaha... That's funny! I am feeling a bit long in the tooth these days! Race boats are a tough sell, my friend. Anymore, I think we spend a lot more time trying to slow down than to go fast! Thanks for your note and I hope you enjoy what's coming up. We are not the polished show quite yet, so bear with some experimentation. Best, Nick
Great Video. I boat my first boat in Feb. A Compass 790. 7.9m (26") monohull, full fibreglass. Something I can sail on my own, but is larger enough for a weekend away with the family. I've been out on it in 30knots, gusting to 40 and it was fine - main reefed in on the second reef. Also last weekend just finished a sailing course and we were on a 67" monohull, basically racing yacht. In 15 knots of wind, on a beam reach got to 11.5knots. When being close hauled at about 28 degrees off the wind we were doing about 9-10 knots, and then heeling over and dumping the lifelines in the water, and dropping to 6 knots.
That sounds like a blast to me. I still like monohulls for the very reasons you describe. But now, for living on, I will take a cat! Thanks for the comment Fran!
I have always loved the leopards... you reinforced that belief.
Yeh this L46 is pretty sweet
@@TheOKellys I first fell inlove with moorings leopard 47s over a decade ago... Sadly about the largest boat I can consistently get enough wind to sail in my neck of the woods is a 14' canoe :)
I have loved and dreamed of the sea since gradeschool, but family and other life related issues have kept me land locked most of that time. Short of a large horstman tristar, I can think of no boat I would rather have than a leopard 46... They took a bit of getting used to the design changes in my mind, but they really grew on me. Just discovered your channel... Ye may not be as showy as some other sailing channels are, but I love how you present informative episodes. I have been greatly enjoying binge watching you... the two-parter you did on "Top Secret" was great... what he has done with the way he electrified his boat, is almost exactly what I have dreamed of for my hopeful retirement project :)
Nick. Just a fabulous, concise and informative education !! DITTO, Wiley
Hey thanks Richard. I just uploaded a followup on outfitting the boat. A few more lessons learned... Appreciate the feedback. Best, Nick
Watching again , and his is so informative and true as it should be. So useful..muchas gracias Nico...saludos
great videos..... I just bought a blue water cruiser. I'm currently on an assignment where I have to do a bunch of deskwork and so and I've started to watch as many you tube videos about sailing that I can stand. So glad I discovered your channel, you and Megan really work well together and your commentary is spot on so I've learned a bunch.would love to get more videos of you actually doing your project work as I know this is what I'll be soon up to my neck intoalso it is clear to me that there's some rogue wave out there like your almost losing the anchor near the Golden Gate bridge story .... I know that rogue wave is out there and I hope I can handle in the form that it takes as you did with a bit of humor
Great insight about the bridge deck clearance. I have never heard anyone mention the cons of a lower one, and would have not thought about it.
FYI to anyone looking to buy a cat, they pound and it can be very...uncomfortable
Danielle Brown do power cats pound ? Any that don’t?
Buy a cat is a very personalised thing whats right for one is not for others..... for me creature comfort & ok speed is everything.....remember the faster you go the rougher it gets & more stress on crew & boat & more breakages which means....that's right even more money....Comfort...Cruising Comfort...Cheers
yep. very much agree with you Peter. As in many things in life, it is about compromise and balance. BEst, Nick O
Nick your information on cats was a wake up call to captains who should take your very valuable advice Tight lines
I agree! I've been looking at Cats for a few years now and I'm still getting a FEEL for reality. Good stuff Nick!!
Excellent video, thanks. Concise, informative and clearly narrated. Solid info. for anyone in the cat market.
Thanks Kyle. More difficult to be concise than long winded, which is my default.
6 degrees of separation we had tickets bought to go look at Foot Loose but backed out due to broker not being very honest about an offer that was ahead of us. And low and behold that was you guys, to funny wish we would have know Wiley back then would have saved us a ton of time and money. But in the end we bought Orca tew another 46 now (The Space Between) out of the Bahamas pre phase out thank god so we knew the work was done right like you. Its a small world hope to see you on the big blue play ground love the videos keep up the work!!!!
Small World
hmmmmm....dishonest broker? Whaaaaaaat? This deal was so hard. I think it took two and a half months to close...and on a cash deal?!!?!?!?. It is a very small world now with all this social media. Only some of the brokers seem to understand this.
Really enjoyed your video. We are the owners of a Catana 471 "Element" and we have cruising friends on our Pacific passage that have a Leopard 46, and I have really been impressed by the performance of the boat WHEN a roller furling screecher was added for light airs. With the screecher, our Catana has difficulty keeping up (we do not have a screecher, but a relatively heavy oversize genoa) and have to hoist our spinnaker to catch up to our friend's 46. I think your choice was a good one, but I also believe that a good quality cruising cat in the size you want was a lot to ask at $300K all in. Hope to see you out there!. - Shaun - Sailing Catamaran Element (currently sailing Indonesia)
Guess what I just bought? A Code 0 on furler. Super psyched. We really love the 471. Tough to find one when we were looking. We had to give up on 300k. We are at about 375k. Hope we get to race you at some point.....:)
Good video. I'm like you in that I'm a pretty experienced monohull guy who will probably buy a catamaran someday. Current boat is a Deerfoot. I'm surprised that you did not look at any Catana cats. I spent 2 weeks on a Catana 52 back in 2007 and the experience sold me. I check prices on Catana 50's and 52's every once in a while. Yeah they're still kind of expensive but moving in my direction. Best of luck with your new boat.
Thank you John. I've liked Deerfoot since George Backus went around on his 62, Moonshadow - cool boat! We looked at Catana 43's, but no video of those. Aside from the headroom, I liked them. However my wife didn't care for the outboard helms, so that was that. While we didn't finance, given the strength of the market, relatively more predictable depreciation curves for catamarans, and a more firm exit strategy than we now have, a larger cat like a 50 or 52 is about the only boat I'd ever consider taking a mortgage on...and I'd have to! Those are pricey!
I'm 67 so operating a sailing vessel maybe just a bit more then I could handle, however I am in the market for a 50 to 75 foot Motor Yacht. Just wish I could find video's on you tube with as much buying info as your channel. Good luck with the Leopard, she looks really fine.
Thanks Raymond. If I knew a thing about power yachts I’d be covering them too. Seems like the same stuff really, without all the rigging to check. Appreciate the note. Nick
Raymond, being in the business for a while, I would like to advise you to choise a cat, there is a lot of nice power cats out there. You can write to me for more information irene@sailingwithirene.com
Nice job. I just bought my fifth sailboat in over 40 years. It is an '87 Caliber33, mono hull, different price point & budget but about the same conclusions. No real deals out there, surveyors are a waste of money (to some extent) and no one tells the whole truth.
Allen, those are good boats. That's a fantastic size. Our last was a Freedom 33. I may try to buy it back when we are done full-timing. I don't agree on surveyors though...I've learned something from each one. I don't yet have the chops to do it without one.
@@TheOKellys
Nick,
I understand. You were buying in a whole different league than I would even consider.
That said I did learn some good lessons, just not sure that at my age I'll get to apply them in another purchase.
Good luck, hope to see you out there some day.
AL
Great Video Nick. I think you negotiated a sweet deal. Your $$ video to repair, upgrade and convert to a cruising cat was very informative also. Seems like similar yachts in today's world are $100k more than yours!
Yeh the L46 seems to have developed a bit of a cult following. It's the only Gino Morelli (Gunboat, HH, etc.) design that's within reach of us financial mortals. I made another video with tips for saving money when buying a boat. I thought the brokers would be mad, but instead have received positive feedback. Thanks for the note Pete!
We are under contract on a Leopard 47 in the Caribbean. The pictures in yachtworld were from 2014 or earlier. I can tell because in 2014 someone did a walkthrough video of the same boat and some things are placed perfectly exactly the same in the video and the pictures. That, and the actual pictures we got from the surveyor are completely different including things like there being a different anchor, removed equipment, and things being mounted differently. They dropped their price quite significantly from asking, and we go down there to survey it next month, so we will see.
Very nice clip with great tips how to minimized financial let down...w a hole in the water ...thank you sir..really appreciated it..
Appreciate that Henry. I figure if you can come even close to breaking even with boats, you've done really well. Just add sweat equity! Thanks for the feedback. Hope it helps someone out there! Nick
At the end of this video you asked about topics. 1) I'm really intrigued about income opportunities while living aboard. More info about the sewing business, voice over work, other opportunities to generate income while living aboard. 2) I'm really intrigued about your meteorologic perspective on reading weather as well as route planning. Your weather background is a big differentiator. I would orient some of these topics to open source, free sources of software and weather to aid the budget minded captains. 3) More captains log, day in the life under sail. - Great work
Thanks for the great questions/ideas, will give it some thought for either a podcast or video!
I'm just starting my journey of planning and learning. I have about 3-4yrs to find, buy and outfit my, hopefully, dream boat. I'm looking for a Cat and have dreams of sailing around the world (or nearly around it)… your video has opened my eyes to things I need to add to my list of what to look for and budget for. Thank you so much for sharing!
Glad to be of some assistance! Hope we see you out there. Soon!
Outstanding video with valuable info. Your process was well rewarded. Beautiful boat.
Thank you!
Thankyou Nick for this very simple straightforward video. Greetings from Marseille France
Merci. Les français construisent de beaux catamarans. Nous aimons la France et allons faire une tournée quand notre chien ne fait pas partie de l'équipage, probablement à vélo. Peut-être suite à La Tour.
@@TheOKellys I'm delivering a Bali 4.1 next week to the catamaran boat show in the south of France :) then another Catamaran down to Greece :)
Ah the life. How you like that Bali? Respond offline if you like. Have a safe trip!
The Bali4.1 has some great features especially the door opening up the galley and cockpit! But is a little bit slow. Full main and gennaker with 12knt of wind = 3.8-4.0 knts. An outremer 5x passed us at 7 knt!
I don't sail, but this video was
very informative.
My choice would have also been
Clarity, based on how well
kept it looked and the excellent floor plan.
From Australia, well presented with interesting observations on each consideration. Congratulations on not being secretive on outlays, value, etc. as many are.
Wyatt Family thank you. Yeh I don’t quite understand why money is kept so quiet on RUclips, etc, as most cruisers we meet out here are quite open about boat expenses. Income....well not so much, which is fine. Hope we get down your way in two or three years. Cheers mate, Nick
I bout your book " Get Her on Board" great book...Thanks again for sharing...
Cool! Wrote that a long time ago, but I stand by those words. Hard-won wisdom.
Nicely done. Honesty. Refreshing.
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Thanks for your perspective, it really helps crystallize my views on what to be looking for and what to be looking out for.
Thanks. That's what I was hoping I could help with. Good luck on the search! Nick O
Have watched many videos and w websites, no one is this clear. You guys are amazing and very detailed. Thank you for sharing this information
wave slap underneath the desired bottom of deck distance to water line 2ft maybe 30in
Greatly appreciated for your time and effort for this informative video and sharing your priceless experiences
Thank you, Thank you,
Thanks for this one as well Nick. Super informative and easy to follow.
Thanks Phil. Always trying to ask myself: what would I have wanted to know before doing this?
this was actually very informative.. thank.. I was wondering about the schonning and build quality.
Thanks Jason. The build quality of Sea Level (the Schionning) appeared to be very good. The interior finishes were decent, but not yacht quality. The systems components were high quality, but the design was definitely amateur, with a mixture of 12V and 24V for house needs. The boat is EXTREMELY light, and it is a very very fast boat. Too fast for us. Almost all Schionnings are owner-built, so the build quality is going to vary from boat to boat. Also, their kits come in either balsa core or foam core, and that will make a big difference to longevity and resale.
Excellent video, great information I learned something new that will help me with buying my boat. Thank you
Wow, thanks Arthur. Good luck! See you out here!
Very intersting video. I now know what to look for. Thank you for sharing.
I learned a lot from this video. Your summation was exactly on point for deciding what you need to know when choosing a boat. I've seen so many videos where people buy a boat and not consider the points you bring up in this video. I am more prepared to narrow down what I'm looking for not only for aesthetics but also functionality and comfort as well. Also, what range of price negotiation to expect. Thank you.
Thanks David. Glad to be of some help! Nick
Great roll up of the process. We had the same experience with misrepresenting boats. We narrowed it down to about 7 online, travelled to look at 5 in person. All were "meticulously maintained". Only one of those was in good enough shape to put money down. Ours isnt perfect either but it was easily the best at the time.
Yeh I don't quite get it. I've never sold a boat by setting up unrealistic expectations. Also try to keep my boats up... And what is the deal with sellers/brokers posting terrible photos... makes no sense to me.
By the way I watch mostly on my TV and does not have the option to comment but know that we are watching and even having a good laugh once in a while but always well informed and enjoyment.
Well done! I learned a lot! Thanks! big thumbs up!
Thanks for the note Peter. Appreciate it. Nick
I never would have considered a charter boat, but this changed my mind. Thanks!
Boats are like people: all individuals with unique stories. With patience and a critical eye, a former charterboat can work out very well. Good luck!
Definitely would love reviews of the boats individually. Your channel is super helpful - thank you!
Thanks guys I’ve been looking at cats in the Mediterranean and I’m finding the same problems I think I’m going back to a monohull but a 60’ this time cheers Stu
Lemme know what you are looking for. I meet people.... good luck Stu
Thank you for the honest and professional way.
Great honest and down to earth video! Thanks Nick!
If I came off as down to earth, I got you fooled. I'm a dreamer for sure. Thanks for the kudos. Appreciate it!
@@TheOKellys ...lol...Your not just a dreamer Nick, you are actually going for it despite the odds, and that is as real and down to earth as it gets! Good luck to you and your family and we will be watching your adventures until we can start our own!
Thanks a million for the info buddy
Alex Hage you’re welcome. Hope it saves you time or hassle.
Thank you guys for being by far the most informative of the catamaran sailing youtubers.
That's really nice of you to say. We know there are a lot of good channels out there right now.
great video and thanks a lot for these useful advice. I was thinking the most about "there are no deals" which I think is true. However, there are general price diferences between summer and winter, between the USA, the Carribean, Europe, Australia and other parts of the world... since I am not (yet) a boat-owner, unfortunatly I cannot determine myself which regions are more expensive then others... then of course, there are always people who either have unrealistic views about the value of their used boat or simply try to find out, if there is a "blind" buyer who doesn't invest the necessary time&money to survey the boat and the market...
Thank you for the comment Tim. Yes, I tried tried to follow the patterns suggested by others, but didn't have much luck, and we looked online for a year, then looked actively in person for 10 months. The best deal, which we couldn't take because our dog isn't welcome, was a Voyage 50 for sale in Australia far BELOW global market, which defies common wisdom. We found NO slump in prices during hurricane season. We did not consider the eastern Mediterranean, so I can't really comment about prices there...perhaps there are deals, but I've heard first-hand that getting things done is a slow painful process if you need professional help. Another area I didn't really consider because of the dog is the South Pacific. And, yes, I couldn't agree with you more about the unrealistic sellers testing the market... but also, as a seller (which I have been three times now), I kind of get it...you have all this money spent that didn't necessarily increase the value and maybe you still really like the boat... Anyway, maybe I can do another video about boat shopping. There is a lot of hard-won wisdom out there. Maybe I will talk to some of my cruising buddies. Best, Nick
Thanks for sharing I really appreciate your channel, if you don't mind I have few question about the Outremer 55.
I did not understand why you didn't get the Outremer 55 for 220USD even if it needs some repair, in my opinion (but take my words fro what they are I don't have such a big experience a you and your wife) it's a dream boa for that price because even if it's not so fancy and spacious inside compared to a Leopard or a Privilege of same size it's still a 55feet and more than all it's buit in monolitic fiberglass (old school) and last but not least it's a rocket!!
I read that you said that a fast catamaran could be uncomfortable, in my opinion (but correct me if I'm wrong) it's better having all that "horse sail power" since you don't need to push it all the time to the max speed and you can sail even with a low breeze where other catamaran running on engine, otherwise if you need a fast passage for any reason you can do it! (I saw some old Outremer logs going up to 22-25 knots 30knots wind!) plus the 55 outside surface plus the very marine and fast design make them suitable for a a lot of sunpower panel and a future electric conversion
Last the old outremer go upwind "almost" like monohull!!!
Sorry if I wrote that much, it's just my opinion and maybe (probably) i'm wrong some of the points!
I understand your logic, and before seatrialing I thought the same, but the truth is that it is not a comfortable boat, and it is very easy to underestimate how important that is for long range cruising. #2, it is too fast for someone without much cat experience. #3, it needed a LOT of work. Money is one thing, but time is more important. In fact looking back now, we'd likely have tried to do the work in Sint Maarten, and we would have been caught in Irma.
Thank you so much! Great, open and transparent - THIS stuff helps. Cheers from Vienna 😊
Hi Nick, after viewing your video about the various cats that you have surveyed and just came to the conclusion that you had been viewing the wrong cats in the first place, priority would have to go for (1)Leopard (2)Lagoon (3) Privilege (4) Fountaine Pajot but not in any particular order.
Yep, exactly right. I didn't know what I didn't know.
Everyone mentions the Lagoons. We never ended up buying a cat, but in seeing various lagoons and fp's in Florida, those proved to be boats that don't age well. Not sure if it was the quality or the fact that they are heavily chartered?
I see my dreams thru your voyages. Thank you so much. Richard
We are privileged to have you along. Thank you
I've been binging on Catarmaran content and caught your channel. Great stuff, subbed! I saw on another channel the first boat you looked at, the Avanti, wrecked. If you search "CATAMARAN WRECKS" on youtube, it's the first link.
Yeh I saw that very creepy. And evidently the guy was very experienced. He just had his chart plotter zoomed out too far. Didn’t even see it. We ran into Avanti a year or so after our deal in Sint Maarten, ran into the Voyage 440 Nike with new owners in Fajardo the next season, and just recently met (virtually) the new owner of the Schionning 49 Sea Level on FB. It is a small, big world!
Extremely informative videos on: 1. finding the catamaran, and, 2. the refit: clear and compelling economic reasoning - nice balance between the technical aspects and practical aspects. Nice "this is what we learned" approach. Keep your shades as you like as the focus remains on the content and not the speaker. Hope you will do more videos. Thanks very much.
Thank you for the nice words. Never know just how detailed to go with these things. So many comments saying lose the glasses. I don't get it. It is bright out! Yeh we are going to do more videos. A boat tour next I think so I can show everyone how it turned out!
really well done - forthright - and no spin - thank you
Soon as I saw the list knew it was going to be the shoining or the leopard (considering the leopard was last it was obvious)
Then when describing shoning as homebuilt, avoid them like the plague, where I am ex charter yachts are pretty popular, they are built to a stronger standard, they are well fit out, if they are crewed charters they are well looked after.
Yeh, I guess I didn't leave a lot of suspense there. Yes that Schionning is a looker for sure! Thanks for the comment Richard.
Great video. Really like the advice, especially the “no deals” part. We are about one year away from buying our first catamaran and I was just curious about why Lagoons were not on your list. We have been looking at the leopard 46 or the lagoon 440 along with a couple of others. Our budgets seems pretty similar to yours
Yes, good question. We actually did look at a couple of Lagoons. I believe it was a 47 and one of the smaller ones. I've got no experience sailing them, so I can't comment other than to say that it seems to be common knowledge that Lagoon really emphasizes livability in their designs. Since we've been out cruising this time, I met a Lagoon owner who says his boat sails poorly. That being said, they are enormous and extremely comfortable. Headroom is great, doors and beds are spacious, etc. Also, those vertical salon windows have now been copied by most manufacturers...it's just the right way to do it...the visibility is amazing. We aren't sailing purists or anything like that, but we really enjoy making a boat move well under sail. The L46 was designed by Gino Morrelli, the same guy who designs HH66 and the Gunboats. He puts performance first, and this boat sails really really well. It's not the biggest or fastest 46 foot cat out there, but also not the smallest or slowest. Yes, no deals, unfortunately. That could change of course, depending on the overall economy. Good luck and I hope we see you out here soon. It's pretty amazing.
lagoon describe thier boats as apartments on water and no real surprise they sail like an apartment. I got a friends who bought one and lived on it at a marina for 12 months before heading out for 2 years sailing australia and the pacific, not being in a real hurry the a relatively poor sailing characteristics didn't phase them, but its design and build quality is exactly what you expect from something from the Beneteau group
Awesome video again........but at the end it comes down to the price tag, no? We are just looking for our dream boat and I would love to go with Outremer or Catana but the prices are steep..........and as you said that fast boats aren't too comfortable.....have to consider that too! Does your Leopard is much more stable than the Outremer you tested too?
yes, the Leopard is a good compromise. It has nowhere near the speed of an Outremer, is somewhat slower than a Catana 43 in most conditions, but I would say on the faster end of the spectrum compared to the other production catamarans like fp and lagoon.
@@TheOKellys it's a hard decision making process from now on and a lucky one to find the top boat at the right time :-) Thanks for coming back to me......
Awesome! one of the best reviews I have ever views. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with us.
Our pleasure
Yes there are good deals on catamarans. Every now and then a great deal comes along. Usually it’s not a production catamaran but a one of custom built and usually much better built and a better performer than the production cats we see nowadays.
The heavier less performance oriented catamarans will appear to have a better motion to the monohull sailer as they are used to the slower heavier motion. Others prefer the “sit on top of the water” feel of the performance catamarans and usually those are of course the higher performance enthusiasts and experienced multi sailors.
Where can someone find these deals you speak of?
Interesting final price info:
~30% down from ask and up ~40% in upgrades and repairs from paid.
The hard down at speed from light cats seems to be pretty even in the industry since they have no ballast (one major difference with monohulls).
I very much appreciate the information provided.
What level of depreciation do you expect going forward?
That's about right. But my cost is way below what I'd have paid for a tricked out boat.
Love joy peace wealth & abundance for all from Thailand .
This is great stuff. Thanks for posting!
I'm shocked that I haven't seen this episode before. Well, I'm here now, and thanks for the info.
Went off the leopards when they went Saildrive and that light wood, call me old fashioned but i like wood to look like wood not some bleached mdf style. Keep getting drawn to Atares 44s for some reason , the skeg rudders, proper props & for just the two of us with guests very rare the galley down might be a hit with the wifelet Lol ! also liked the engines in the middle & low not stuck on the ends, got a friend comming my way soon who has one & with luck I will get a ride very soon . Of all the production craft out their I have not heard negitives so far plus they hold prices better than most . Did you ever look at one or think about them ?
Yes, I am a fan of Antares 44. Was berthed next to Ona for a while and got to know the original owner coincidently. Not as fast as you would think, surprisingly, according to him. Also, many are semi-custom, so one 44 is different than another. You know, I was not too hip on saildrives either, but they are 1. ubiquitous on cats, and 2. really pretty easy to deal with. With the shaft drives on our other boats, I can't tell you how many times I have been wedged behind one of our transmissions trying go get the packing repacked or figure out why the "dripless" isn't drip-less. So, I'm with you to a certain extent, but saildrives, with a few exceptions like the the SD50, are very reliable units if treated properly. Thanks for the comment!
Thanks for the reply Nick I think you hit the nail on the head about speed in some respects , one has to decide are you a cruiser or a racer, as an old wrinckly im past the age of rushing everywhere. The other thing i have with saildrives is the Alloy caseing each and every youtube vid of a cat being lifted is the corrosion on the case its pitted to hell. I suspect long term a prop shaft rig is cheaper on the owner whist the saildrive is cheaper on the makers. I believe the sail plan can be uprated from standard fit to square top ect to get more power on the Atares & you can beach them with care on soft stuff, dont think i would do that with a Leopard / saildrives.
Yeh, I don't know. My experience is limited. So far, less problems with these saildrives than I had with shafts, but your points are taken for sure. Nawww, you wouldn't want to beach a boat like this unless you were POSITIVE you had a flat spot and no hidden pointy things. Even then...
Very interesting information. Yes catamarans are in demand good you could get one that fits your needs
Very useful, short and detailed information. Thanks for all your efforts.
Great video, Humble, Honest, Really looking forward to keeping a close eye on your channel
I was hoping the Leopard would catch your attention from the 1st mention! A proven winner! Yes buy! As is purchase was balsy. Lucky owners! Cats are hard.
Proven is right. It seemed a bit too vanilla to us at first, but the fact is these are some of the most refined designs ever built. We are indeed very lucky and we don't forget it. We are very fortunate to be able to do it, but also to share it here. Thank you for the note. Nick
Eye opening. Your $25k 'learning experience' will probably save a lot of us millions. I tip my hat to you. I've learned quite a bit in 13 minutes.
Thank you Hans. I look at these endeavors in terms of how I might save someone else some time and effort and....money.
And this is important. And noble. As not every chap has the budget we do, and the more folks we can get out of the driveway and onto the water, the better. Thank you for generous contribution to the sailing community.
Thank you for the video...
Great advice. 👍
Really appreciate your insights. Keep it up!
Thanks Dillon. Hard-won wisdom. Appreciate the feedback. Nick O
Very well put together video... Thank you.....
Thanks Mike!
Great video. Very informative. By the way has anyone ever told you, you sound like Casey Kasem. Great voice.
hahaha, lol. Thanks Adan. I did actually work in broadcasting a while back. Casey Kasem is not a name I have heard in a long long time, and now I can't help but hear his voice in my head as I type these words. I actually started a new VO project (personal project, a piece of fiction) this season, so I am back to recording. I don't pimp my stuff very often, but I did link to some of my previous books and audiobooks in the description of the "Converting a Bareboat to Cruiser" video. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Nick
This is well presented and very helpful! Thank you
Thanks for sharing your lessons.
Hard-won wisdom! Happy to share.
I've been searching for the right deal for years and have gave up! As you stated Cats are too desirable now, many years ago it seemed like no "true" sailor would touch one...times have certainly changed!!
Yes, good and bad news I suppose. Harder to find, yes, but also a little easier to know where you'll be financially when you sell. I've never financed a boat, but if I were going to, I'd sleep a little better financing a cat. Don't give up Dave! Get out here! Thanks for the comment. Nick
Thanks Nick!!@@TheOKellys
Thank you for these great tips. We're looking to buy a cat in few years and are building our check list of does and dont; this video contains number one items to put on our list.!
Awesome. Let me know how it goes.
This video was very helpful.👍👍👍
Nice Boat, the Wynns made this style boat a must have for a lot of people I think you made a good choice, have fun let use know how it handles long term.
That's right. Our boats are very very different designs (different designers), but same builder. I am way behind on their travels but they are buddy boating with friends of ours who also have the L43 like theirs and it is a fantastic platform. Wish my first boat was a L43! Thanks Anthony.
Great video. I'm not in the market for a boat but I found this very interesting. Thanks for the time and effort to share this knowledge and experience.
Appreciate that, thank you.
Brilliant --- Thanks Guys... This is just what I needed to watch. Love your work.
And you definitely need to be held accountable for the promised extra videos that you "may" make.. To quote the words of a great captain: "Make is so!"
Again, thanks for the informative video.
Was excellent and a very much appreciated vlog. Thanks very much.
Excellent analysis! Thank you.
My second watch, really good. Surprised to learn much more second time around. Good work!
thats funny. i only got one surveyed. surveyed mint. and i bought it! although it was very misrepresented by the broker! pictures were 8 years old!
Man, I tell you, some of the things brokers do...I can't believe there aren't more lawsuits. Sounds like you got lucky! Thanks for the comment.
Absolutely spot on! very resourceful indeed.
Nice video,it is hard to find honest broker, boat market don't have history records like cars it is to many lemons. Rash and anxiety to buy boat is hard to control, Nice CAT I wish you Fair Winds" and "Following Seas
Totally agree on your Broker comments..... once bitten FOREVER shy.... whats brown and looks good on a broker ? - Answer - A rottweiler......
Very useful video, thanks so much for taking the time to share your experience and insights!
Thanks Scott. Appreciate it man.
"to much customization in the plumbing and electrical" is that a diplomatic way of saying that the work was terribly done? LOL
Eh, not terrible....just a lot of “making it work” instead of preplanned systems integration.