Armageddon is a staple in my kaalia deck allowing me to punish ramp and usually win through combat without my opponents being able to interact with my commander also with instant speed indestructible effects it can usually be 1sided allowing you to keep your lands and your opponents to lose their's
Yeah, Armageddon matched with a win condition that’s coming relatively soon isn’t too bad to play against. Sounds like an interesting deck, do you have a list?
i do wonder about cyclonik rift? why is it so hated? its expensive and from my experience most of the time when someone use it, they win within a rotation? like is it worse then a board wipe? cuz u do get the ability to play those cards again, or in some situation when i played it, and im really far behind everyone else i can bounce up the board and give myself a chance to actually catch up and get into the game, i think that is one of the cards i dont really see why its as hated as it is, (overloaded is still a massive investment for a single spell, and as with every other pain in the ass card, a counter spells for not even half the rifts cost is all that is needed to stop it, i think hate on cards is a bit overkill, (mass land destruction if one cant win the game whitin a rotation i can understand, as most ppl dont have the ability in their decks to play lands from the graveyard, and it can easely make ppl unable to play the game,, but im thinking cyclonic rift in comparison to like farwell, all your stuff gets exiled, or they get bounced to ur hand giving you a chanse to play them again, and yes, farwell get ur own stuff to in most cases, but if one is using it the dmg it causes to oneself is usualy neglectable compared to the dmg is causes to the rest of the table,
Honestly I think you may be in a position where it actually isn't an issue for the reason you stated: the player is winning the game shortly thereafter. It might even be a signpost for some that they're about to lose and that's annoying, but I think the real issue is people playing it, NOT winning, and then durdling while everyone tries to rebuild and likely making the game a real drag. I'm very much in the same camp as you, if they're winning the game anyways I don't really mind it.
I've been playing land decks for about 20 years and always endorse people playing armageddon. The community shying away from mass land destruction is extremely abusable. Having the guarantee that your lands are gonna stay in play fundamentally breaks the game. Attacking eachother's mana and especially utility lands is an angle of interaction that should not be removed from the game.
Hey buddy, I get where you’re coming from, but usually this just leads to horrible slug slow games where the person who isn’t running a high amount of lands in their deck struggles and falls behind .
Hot takes: Land destruction is bad! It's really hard to break parody on, and the decks that can have to run otherwise really bad cards to make it work. Cyclonic Rift is fair. Yeah it is powerful, but it costs 7 mana. I think most people are only salty because they don't have one. Thassa's Oracle is just an okay win con. Honestly, this combo gets blown out by basically any meaningful interactions. It's only good if you can protect it with some sort of silence effect. Dockside, well strong, I think is actually good for the cEDH meta game. Bowmasters should be banned! It makes creature decks unplayable at cEDH.
Mass land destruction is very easy to make one sided. crucible + extra land drops being the easiest example, or try the manabond+sunder combo... I play all the armageddon style cards in my lands decks and it's nearly always an instant win when one resolves...
There's a lot of board wipes that don't affect you. I wouldn't call it unfair, just ... strong and useful. It also shortens games. Most of them aren't as versatile as Cyclonic Rift obbviously. Rift hits everything besides lands and is instant speed. In the end, cyclonic rift does cost 7 mana. There's lot of cards that can do ridiculous things at 7 mana.
@@mr.wafflesrz1137 I realize this but I think in the end there's always going to be one card that is "the strongest" for it's effect. Take away Cyclonic Rift and people will start complaining about the next strongest thing. And the thing is, you won't often see these expensive cards in commander at casual tables. And on a lot of tables a card Mob Rule will be just be as backbreaking. And as you move up the power level curve, having cards cost 7 mana stops them from even being playable because people will just... counter it with free counterspells if it would make them lose the game. In the end, Cyclonic Rift is a card that will show up in high-powered non cEDH pods. Is it still a really strong card? Sure it is. But the pricetag isn't a result of just it's power. It's about the broad application. There's tons of incredibly strong cards that are simply not as expensive because you can only cast them in certain decks, which keeps demand relatively low. For example Crux of Fate is completely OP in dragons, because it's basically one sided boardwipe for only 5 mana. But you can only play it in dragons. Similarily, people went nuts for Beseech the Mirror because it tutors for any card and then even play it for free. But a domain-card like "bring to light" is basically 5 cents, despite having a very similar effect. There's tons of REALLY strong stuff in magic that I basically never see a reason to include generically powerful cards like Cyclonic Rift because so often I'll find something that synnergizes so well with my deck and/or commander but at a fraction of the price.
Armageddon is a staple in my kaalia deck allowing me to punish ramp and usually win through combat without my opponents being able to interact with my commander also with instant speed indestructible effects it can usually be 1sided allowing you to keep your lands and your opponents to lose their's
Yeah, Armageddon matched with a win condition that’s coming relatively soon isn’t too bad to play against.
Sounds like an interesting deck, do you have a list?
i do wonder about cyclonik rift?
why is it so hated? its expensive and from my experience most of the time when someone use it, they win within a rotation?
like is it worse then a board wipe? cuz u do get the ability to play those cards again,
or in some situation when i played it, and im really far behind everyone else i can bounce up the board and give myself a chance to actually catch up and get into the game,
i think that is one of the cards i dont really see why its as hated as it is, (overloaded is still a massive investment for a single spell, and as with every other pain in the ass card, a counter spells for not even half the rifts cost is all that is needed to stop it,
i think hate on cards is a bit overkill, (mass land destruction if one cant win the game whitin a rotation i can understand, as most ppl dont have the ability in their decks to play lands from the graveyard, and it can easely make ppl unable to play the game,,
but im thinking cyclonic rift in comparison to like farwell, all your stuff gets exiled, or they get bounced to ur hand giving you a chanse to play them again,
and yes, farwell get ur own stuff to in most cases, but if one is using it the dmg it causes to oneself is usualy neglectable compared to the dmg is causes to the rest of the table,
Honestly I think you may be in a position where it actually isn't an issue for the reason you stated: the player is winning the game shortly thereafter. It might even be a signpost for some that they're about to lose and that's annoying, but I think the real issue is people playing it, NOT winning, and then durdling while everyone tries to rebuild and likely making the game a real drag. I'm very much in the same camp as you, if they're winning the game anyways I don't really mind it.
I've been playing land decks for about 20 years and always endorse people playing armageddon. The community shying away from mass land destruction is extremely abusable.
Having the guarantee that your lands are gonna stay in play fundamentally breaks the game. Attacking eachother's mana and especially utility lands is an angle of interaction that should not be removed from the game.
Hey buddy, I get where you’re coming from, but usually this just leads to horrible slug slow games where the person who isn’t running a high amount of lands in their deck struggles and falls behind .
@@CosmicMangoMTG then you're playing against fools who don't know how to play the cards in their deck. "Usually" is anecdotal and not a real argument
Hot takes:
Land destruction is bad! It's really hard to break parody on, and the decks that can have to run otherwise really bad cards to make it work.
Cyclonic Rift is fair. Yeah it is powerful, but it costs 7 mana. I think most people are only salty because they don't have one.
Thassa's Oracle is just an okay win con. Honestly, this combo gets blown out by basically any meaningful interactions. It's only good if you can protect it with some sort of silence effect.
Dockside, well strong, I think is actually good for the cEDH meta game.
Bowmasters should be banned! It makes creature decks unplayable at cEDH.
*parity
(parody is making fun of previously existing content)
Mass land destruction is very easy to make one sided. crucible + extra land drops being the easiest example, or try the manabond+sunder combo...
I play all the armageddon style cards in my lands decks and it's nearly always an instant win when one resolves...
Cyclonic is just unfair since it doesn't affect you
Ikr? Crazy card hehe XD
There's a lot of board wipes that don't affect you. I wouldn't call it unfair, just ... strong and useful. It also shortens games. Most of them aren't as versatile as Cyclonic Rift obbviously. Rift hits everything besides lands and is instant speed.
In the end, cyclonic rift does cost 7 mana. There's lot of cards that can do ridiculous things at 7 mana.
@@PaulSzkibik Yeah but most are sorcery speed so people will expect it compared to Oh I just pass with 7 mana up
@@mr.wafflesrz1137 I realize this but I think in the end there's always going to be one card that is "the strongest" for it's effect. Take away Cyclonic Rift and people will start complaining about the next strongest thing.
And the thing is, you won't often see these expensive cards in commander at casual tables. And on a lot of tables a card Mob Rule will be just be as backbreaking.
And as you move up the power level curve, having cards cost 7 mana stops them from even being playable because people will just... counter it with free counterspells if it would make them lose the game.
In the end, Cyclonic Rift is a card that will show up in high-powered non cEDH pods. Is it still a really strong card? Sure it is. But the pricetag isn't a result of just it's power. It's about the broad application. There's tons of incredibly strong cards that are simply not as expensive because you can only cast them in certain decks, which keeps demand relatively low. For example Crux of Fate is completely OP in dragons, because it's basically one sided boardwipe for only 5 mana. But you can only play it in dragons.
Similarily, people went nuts for Beseech the Mirror because it tutors for any card and then even play it for free. But a domain-card like "bring to light" is basically 5 cents, despite having a very similar effect.
There's tons of REALLY strong stuff in magic that I basically never see a reason to include generically powerful cards like Cyclonic Rift because so often I'll find something that synnergizes so well with my deck and/or commander but at a fraction of the price.