@@evilsheepmaster1744 Yeah they were really reluctant to ban cards in that era, even though their future future league KNEW skullclamp was absolutely broken after it got sent to the printers. One person in the FFL started using skullclamp after it got the infamous change to be +1/-1 after it went through multiple different versions like +1/+1 and +1/+0 IIRC before it got changed to -1 toughness and sent to print. After they played some games against the clamp deck soon enough everyone in the FFL were running decks centered around the card. They also thought "maybe people wouldn't figure out it's broken out in the hands of the playerbase" when the FFL was a few dozen people at most while the playerbase was tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of players.
Yea but people didn't realise Skull Clamp was as busted as it is at first. It took a little while for the first guy to accidentally equip it to the wrong token, and then realised he just got a free card draw. So Skull Clamps ban was fast in terms of, like, we realised it was good _AND THEN_ it was immediately banned. It was still around for some weeks before this though. So it doesn't meet the criteria for this list
Objection: Lutri is *not* the only card to be pre-banned. In January 1994, the first banlist was created by the DCI (back before formats were even a thing). On that banlist, all cards that used the Ante mechanic were banned outright. On October 14, 1995, the Homelands expansion set was released, containing Timmerian Fiends - a card that uses the Ante mechanic. And of course, Ante was still banned (and still is to this day) In effect, Timmerian Fiend was pre-banned about 600 daya before it was released.
@@seanmurphy6034 checking the history of it, that is demonatrably not true. Recurring Nightmares first release was in Exodus with a release of June 1998 and wasn't added to any banlists until March 1999
@@mrziiz6893 it's still in the Comprehensive Rules doc, but it does what it says on the tin. At the start of the game, if Ante is in effect (OFFICIALLY IT NEVER IS) each player removes the top card of their library and puts it into the Ante Zone at the start of the game (before drawing cards). The Ante Zone is a public knowledge zone like the Graveyard or Command Zone, and is in-effect a second exile zone. Cards that interact with Ante can manipulate or add additional cards to the Ante Zone. At the end of a game, whoever wins gains Ownership of all cards in the Ante Zone.
@@mrziiz6893 why it's the forbidden keyword? Because certain state/country laws have restrictions on gambling and MTG doesn't want to deal with that, since Ante *might* fall under those gambling laws. So the rules specify that said rules must be agreed to ahead of time *and* be legal in your state/territory/country
8:02 The TLDR on Lion's Eye Diamond is that without the "Activate only as an instant" you'd be able to use it on one spell in your hand before discarding your hand.
Notably, the rules of Cascade were changed around the release of Tibalt's Trickery. Orginally you could Cascade into either side of the modal Double-faced cards, which meant cheating the more expansive side. And of course part of the banning of various Companions came because originally you could just cast them. They didn't have the "pay 3 to put it in your hand" requirement.
Maybe gitaxian probe would be on that list, it took way too long for that card to be banned. In the context of standard bans though jace and stoneforge took way too long to be banned with a 2 year rotation they didn't get banned until they were set to rotate in a few months. They got banned a week after new phyrexia came out, but it was obvious the only decks would be cawblade decks unless they got banned since even for months prior cawblade was the most dominant standard deck in a long time. You could go to pro tour qualifiers and it would be all mirror matches all day if the format was standard, it was maddening.
Coming from Yu-Gi-Oh, I always wondered if the Jar cards in that game were a reference to something. I now suspect that Morphing Jar may have been a nod to Memory Jar in Magic. Their effects are awfully similar. They also came out months apart. Memory Jar being first printed in February '99 and Morphing Jar first being printed in the OCG in October of '99. I suspect that someone at Konami was a fan of Magic.
The creator of yugioh is huge fan of tabletop games, MTG included Summoned Skull's name is directly a MTG reference in the OCG. It is called Summon Demon and the manga art is almost a 1-to-1 to an old mtg demon
You can find similarities, coincidental or not. There's an MTG Droll Lock combo that is horrible compared to the broken one in Yugioh, though I'm just stretching the similarity.
It says something about current MtG design when 8/10 entries on this list were printed in the past five (5) years immediately following War of the Spark, with the other two being Memory Jar really only qualifying because it was released immediately after the banlist that was supposed to fix Combo Winter, and the other being Mind's Desire which isn't even considered that good anymore. Also, Modern Horizons 3 has Cranial Ram which R&D have said may warrant a ban in Pauper due to having an effect very similar to the banned cards Cranial Plating and All That Glitters. There may be a new entry to this list, even if it doesn't beat Lutri.
It's also to do with a more aggressive banning strategy where WotC is more willing to ban cards than they were in the past. There's also multiple formats with individual banlists, which opens up more places a ban can happen. I'm not saying that R&D is perfect, but it's not strictly black and white.
well to go further with "once upon a time" it also needed to be banned in modern because its the same deal but it replaced "Ancient Stirrings" and made it to easy to get the missing tron lands. and Lurrus (forgive me if mentioned) that vintage ban forced the rules commitee of commander to change their policies of auto banned cards the original clause was "everything banned in vintage" and Lurrus was the First one that was not bannable in commander so they had to categorizes every single type of card banned in vintage instead of that shortcut.
I think if discover only looked at the top x cards with x being the discover number it wouldn't be as bad as cascade since you could easily wiff looking at only 3 cards.
@@stigmaoftherose It didn't though. The lowest discover cost is Zoyowa's justice (if you target an artifact with mana value 1) but it needs you to have an artifact with mana value 1, which is almost impossible in a deck that only runs 0s and 2+s. So they did cover their tracks. Anything after that is discover 3, which is worse than mv3 cascade spells. Discover was broken but not in the obvious way. Wizards is not stupid to not know how cascade decks work.
@@williamdrum9899 And? They didn't print a card with a playable discover 1 o 2 so it didn't contribute to the established "Play 3s and 0s" strategy, which was what I was responding to.
Lurrus wasn't the first card banned in Vintage for power reasons. Mind Twist was banned in Vintage in 1996 for power reasons. All the fast mana made it possible to force your opponent to discard 4+ cards on Turn 1.
Both of you are incorrect. Type 1 then is known as Vintage today where the card was first banned. Mind Twist remained banned until 2007, well after it was renamed Vintage.
@@CharlesLeeRay812 Mind Twist was unbanned in 2000. To be fair, though, that is a lot longer than I expected it to have been banned. Channel was also unbanned at the time.
Oko being printed was the card that 100% convinced me that Hasbro was directly involved with R&D and forcing them to print broken cards to sell boxes. Omnath was even further proof. That was when I lost all faith in Wizards.
Winota....this card scares so many Commander players. Its so obviously busted and it can pump a ton of creatures in 1 turn since its effects applies to every single non human attacking.
With Companions, I entered into a MOM sealed Tournament (where they reprinted the companion) cards and the top three of that tournament were all companion cards. The winner was a Gyruda mill deck using stuff like Realmbreaker and Breech the Multiverse. Second place (and my deck) was Obosh one-shot using Valdarian Thrillseeker and backup to allow quick kills with Thrillseeker's backup ability. Lutri came 3rd which used Horobi to quickly boardwipe by copying targetted effects. After the tournament we agreed that if companion ever comes back we're not allowing companions from outside of the deck.
How can an ENTIRE COMPANY be so stupid to repeat some mistakes like they did in Underworld Breach and Discover... Hundreds of people were involved and no one said anything like: "guys... Remember Yawgmoth's Will or Cascade?"
The thing that irks me the most is lutri is a fine card. It was the RC responsibility to nor accept companion as a commander mechanic. It doesn't make sense for all reasons about deck size. But they gave in to wizards demands and allowed it. That's what really gets me it was a choice not a mistake.
I do have to say, compared to Konami and the banlist of standard magic, RC does a pretty good job overall. I think we should cut them a little slack, they’ve earned it.
Nope. The Pauper committee wants people to test it before they ban it. There are times when players think a card is going to be busted and ruin a format, only to find out it barely makes a splash. They want to see which way it will go. They are prepared to drop the ban hammer quickly just in case.
I don't think Cranial Ram is getting the hammer. The power of All That Glitters mainly came from the ease of throwing it on cheap evasive creatures like gingerbrute. Cranial Ram comes attached to an unevasive germ, and required extra mana to put it on somthing else. That something else also only gets a 1 toughness boost instead of the +X of ATG. Also, historically, Rakdos hasn't been a good affinity color combo.
@@AFreakingLlamaGavin anticipated the card to be banned, that wasn't really a discussion. The question was whether they would pre-ban or let it run loose for a few weeks. Today they pre-banned it.
I like how Trickery got banned because it basically turned the game into rock-paper-scissors/gambling to see who wins, and made the game unfun to play, when that is exactly what modern Yugioh has been for years lol I've actually proven this with several people: You can literally just shuffle up and draw your opening hands and just reveal them, see how many hand-traps and starter pieces each player has, and literally just determine who wins that game immediately without actually playing it out. Basically just play RPS or flip a coin at that point and cut out the card game entirely lol
Skipped a point with Memory Jar. Another problem was that it essentially milled your opponent for 7 cards since they rarely could even use what they drew. I still swear I remember it being banned earlier than this that though. I remember hearing about it being/going to be banned while at the prerelease for the set.
these days you could just play Narset PoV. what makes Memory jar better than Wheel in Commander is it's generic mana so you're commander doesnt even have to be red, playing NPoV and WoF requires red/blue color identity. NPoV and MJ only requires Blue.
can you please start saying this words properly, youre starting to sound like ai. and like some of the way your saying this is so wrong its like youre doing it on purpose.
I took a break from the game for unrelated reasons but was laughing my ass off at how dumb WotC had gotten. It's like they all got collective brainrot (which isn't far from the truth)
Yeah I havent given wizards my money in years. Ive been saying for quite some time now that it would be amazing how little they would have to ban cards in standard if they A) stopped trying to print commander cards in standard sets and b) bring back modern masters.
Yawgmoth's bargain was banned the fastest. The story goes that in 1999 when Urza's destiny was released. A guy made a Yawgmoth's bargain deck in extended that went off turn one, almost unstoppably, with almost 100 percent turn one going off and winning. He mailed the deck into wotc to show them, before the set was even available for tournament play. They emergency banned bargain in extended format before it was even available. I was around for it.
I recall when Omnath hit and everyone was complaining that this card was created to do nothing more than sell more card packs as everyone knew how broken it was even before the product release. Then the fact it was banned in roughly 2 weeks further fueled the conspiracy that it was left legal just long enough to boost sales for those two weeks.
The description of Mind's Desire says "This is a Sorcery with a Mana Cost of 4 and w Blue". Easy mistake to make with the number 2 being right above the W.
Its funny that most of these were all printed in a single standard rotation, like wizards just went fucking insane for a year and printed better yawgmoths will vecause fuck it we ball lmao
One small correction though I’m not sure how much it matters for the video, killing geological appriser wouldn’t stop discovery as the ability would go onto the stack and resolve if appriser was still on the field or not
You'd probably only notice it in Pioneer and the Arena-only Explorer. Standard lacked the broken combo pieces like Eldritch Evolution and 3-mana clones, and the best thing you could hit was probably Imodane's Recruiter. For formats like Modern and older, it didn't have enough interaction to stall before it could combo off, as most of your nonlands had to be either combo pieces or split-faced cards that technically cost more than 6 due to a weird rule.
Geological Appraiser was released on November 17th and Banned on December 4th, tying it with Omnath as being banned 17 days after release not 48 days after release.
"People didn't like playing cards outside their decks and were worried about the state of the game." Me, running 2 copies of fae of wishes and 4 copies of mastermind's acquisition : 😰😰😰😰
This list is already out of date 10 days later--Cranial Ram just got prebanned in Pauper 😅 Unfortunate Edit: Pauper not Modern I did something stupid on accident
They should really have just giveny Otter son a different companion requirement. We Rule 0 him in as long as he's not a companion. Actually that gives me an idea: Top Rule 0s done in commander. Yeah there's no hard data there but maybe you could talk to the community on the subject.
Uhm, Companion cards have always been in the command zone, NOT in the sideboard. This wasn't changed. It's just that the command zone isn't really used in most formats, but it still exists.
If Companions were there since day 1, then that won't be an issue since Yu-Gi-Oh!'s extra decks were a thing. And speaking of Tibalt's Trickery, it's MtG's Morphtronic Telefon.
@@fernandobanda5734 YuGiOh did have it day one, but it was called the "Fusion Deck", and it was mostly useless until Magical Scientist FTK and Cyberstein. But even then, the extra deck is not as broken as Companions, since it's more like starting the game with an extra card in hand.
Great list but as a minor nitpick I think it'd be a little nicer if you used the card images from when the card was banned, it's weird to hear "this card was printed all the way back in urza's saga" and then it's a modern border VMA card or commander reprint.
I feel there's a few longtime MTG players that are silently grinding their teeth with pronunciation or are confused. Here's a few examples: Eldraine is practically said as "El Drain " Bedevil is usually said like "Be Devil" Kaldheim is called "Called●hi●m" Just trying to help avoid confusion with discussions.
Oko is a card where on reveal I looked at the -1 and said "thats so broken, you cant print that, itll be banned immediately." Then I looked at the 4 loyalty and was even more baffled. And then I realized thats not a minus.
Ah, yes, the ever present Bad Dream Kitty. If this channel ever gets an internal banlist Lurrus is definitely going to be on it. Duel/ManaLogs is probably getting sick of talking about that card. Getting banned from a format made for the stupidly busted cards that are banned everywhere else will never stop being hilarious to me.
For anyone who wants a good example of JUST how absurd Oko and Krasis were, people were playing Noxious Grasp MAINBOARD to deal with Oko. Noxious Grasp has almost as many pro points as Questing Beast, and no, Grasp wasn't run to stop Questing Beast. Beast didn't start to become a threat until MONTHS after Oko got banned.
I find it odd and weird why Lutri didn't come back as a normal creature or a legendary one to be a commander instead of a companion in Bloomburrow which has a focus on otters among rabbits, mice, etc
Um thats not how Drannith Magistrate works in Commander. It doesn't prevent your opponents from casting it from the command zone. The zone was errataed to to be specified to be a non game zone always accessable to a player when it came to zone prevention. It's not in the hand, but it's still something that can always be played. It would need to be named as a target of a "cant be summoned" effect.
Yeah I started playing magic with friends and made and unbeatable green reflect deck in 2009.. the common reflect card which can be played when your opponents hits and the reflected damage from this card can not be blocked! Yes I am the one who broke magic back then!
Honestly, I think Cascade is cool as hell lol. It should probably be tied to an extra mana cost to arbitrarily slow it down, but just ripping cards off the top till you get a viable hit is something I vibe with
I love how there's an "editors note: at 16:27 cuz he mispronounced Escape to the wilds after the narrator mispronounced Eldraine, Planeswalker, Bedevil and Omnath. And thats only the first half xD
Stupid enough, I had several copies of Geological Appraiser before the ban, but none of the cards to play it properly. I wasn't the most online at the time, so I took the things at face value and tossed em in a box.
Companions working in commander makes actually no sense since it takes up a sideboard slot, and sideboard wish cards don’t work. Bad rules just change them to make the game better
Haven't played Magic since 2003 and other than Video Game versions I've never played another TCG. What is the point of a ban list? I mean to me when you have a game that is constantly evolving there shouldn't be anything banned because if you print something with a busted mechanic you can a) change the rules of said mechanic so it cannot be abused, b) reprint the busted card with restrictions so it cannot abuse the mechanic, or c) print new cards that can prevent the abuse and are playable in any deck. Edit: To explain a little bit with MTG everything has a mana cost with the majority of cards linked to specific colors, but some not linked to colors by being colorless. With that in mind the last card on this list could have easily been changed to colorless since the unfair advantage was noticed pre release, as a colorless card it could be added to any deck thus negating the unfair advantage. Also any card that requires 2 color mana is viable for any deck that uses those 2 colors because any deck built with multiple colors is going to have a lot of 2 or more color land cards to avoid having half or more of the deck being land. If you notice a busted mechanic that is getting abused you can reprint the card abusing said mechanic with a higher mana cost making it only playable later in the game giving the opponent time to potentially draw a counter for said card. If every card with a specific mechanic is broken then you just change the rules of said mechanic rather than ban cards that use said mechanic. If there is no counter for a specific card that can abuse a specific mechanic just print a card that can counter it and make it colorless so that it can be added to every deck. It really is not hard to adjust things in MTG to nerf a card so that it cannot be abused. Of course you will always have people that are deep in the Meta trying to find a way to still abuse a card, but that happens regardless of ban or no ban.
@@AlphaetusPrime Yes I get that, but that does not change the point that in a game that constantly evolves with new cards printed every year if you make a card that is OP rather than ban said card you can just print cards to counter it. Or if you create a busted mechanic with a series of cards you can just change the rules of said mechanic rather than ban the cards with said mechanic. Of course none of that matters because regardless of the cards on the list people at the top just find ways to manipulate and break other cards or mechanics which in turn get banned so ultimately there is no point for the ban list to exist.
@@AlphaetusPrime Let me try to explain this better. MTG has been around for 30 years so with power creep and the sheer number of cards printed there are bound to be counters for every card on the ban list. The last time I played MTG seriously the game was built around 4 concepts that players hate more than any banned card. Those are LD, HD, Creature Swap, and Type Change. I'm not saying my deck would be viable in the modern game, but my best deck was a Zombie deck built around Soulless One. It featured LD to prevent myself from being overpowered before I could get Soulless One out, HD to put more Zombies in the Graveyard without having to play them, Creature Swap in case my opponent got creatures out, and if I remember correctly Type Change to change my opponents creatures to Zombies to further boost the power of Soulless One. If you and I were playing with my Zombie deck and you using some banned cards unless you drew into their combos early said combos would do you no good. In order to play those combos you still need Mana or a Hand to play from and at the worst if you were able to get pieces out for said combos I could draw into cards that would give me control of said pieces or change their type to make my best monster even stronger. Again I'm not saying my deck would be viable now because I've seen videos of crazy combos it could not prevent which is just proof the ban list is moot. All the ban list does is force the top players to find some new broken combo pieces and repeat the cycle year after year.
This has not aged well considering how Cranial Ram was pretty much banned on announcement, and using that competitive vs casual format rule from earlier, Lutri by mana logs own rules, has been surpassed. Wizards wont let this man breathe.
Your time line on memory jar is off. It came after the show and tell blue package being banned. It was one of the last cards from the block to be banned
I’m still shocked that Tibalt’s trickery was banned that quickly since it wasn’t only for its sole power level. Honorable mention should go to Felidiar Guardian where it had to be emergency banned 10 days after its ban list it was supposed to be in. Luturi ban in EDH, yeah huge L for Wizards there. Actually they had to force it to work in EDH otherwise burning wish, and other effects like Karn creator has no effect in the format.
If i remember correctly "Skullclamp" was ban in Standard after 1 turnament when all the 8 decks from the Top8 played it.
Not quite. It got through two tournaments (Pro Tour Kobe in Feb 2004 and Grand Prix Brussels in May 2004) before it was banned in June that year
@@evilsheepmaster1744 Yeah they were really reluctant to ban cards in that era, even though their future future league KNEW skullclamp was absolutely broken after it got sent to the printers. One person in the FFL started using skullclamp after it got the infamous change to be +1/-1 after it went through multiple different versions like +1/+1 and +1/+0 IIRC before it got changed to -1 toughness and sent to print. After they played some games against the clamp deck soon enough everyone in the FFL were running decks centered around the card. They also thought "maybe people wouldn't figure out it's broken out in the hands of the playerbase" when the FFL was a few dozen people at most while the playerbase was tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of players.
Yea but people didn't realise Skull Clamp was as busted as it is at first. It took a little while for the first guy to accidentally equip it to the wrong token, and then realised he just got a free card draw. So Skull Clamps ban was fast in terms of, like, we realised it was good _AND THEN_ it was immediately banned. It was still around for some weeks before this though. So it doesn't meet the criteria for this list
At Regionals in 2004, there were more Skullclamps in decks than BASIC SWAMPS! That signaled to everyone a ban was coming!
@@christophermccutcheon2143 This is just not true
Objection: Lutri is *not* the only card to be pre-banned.
In January 1994, the first banlist was created by the DCI (back before formats were even a thing).
On that banlist, all cards that used the Ante mechanic were banned outright.
On October 14, 1995, the Homelands expansion set was released, containing Timmerian Fiends - a card that uses the Ante mechanic. And of course, Ante was still banned (and still is to this day)
In effect, Timmerian Fiend was pre-banned about 600 daya before it was released.
Recurring Nightmare was banned on the pre-release.
@@seanmurphy6034 checking the history of it, that is demonatrably not true.
Recurring Nightmares first release was in Exodus with a release of June 1998 and wasn't added to any banlists until March 1999
What the hell did Ante do, what is this forbidden knowledge, this banished keyword, I must know
@@mrziiz6893 it's still in the Comprehensive Rules doc, but it does what it says on the tin.
At the start of the game, if Ante is in effect (OFFICIALLY IT NEVER IS) each player removes the top card of their library and puts it into the Ante Zone at the start of the game (before drawing cards).
The Ante Zone is a public knowledge zone like the Graveyard or Command Zone, and is in-effect a second exile zone. Cards that interact with Ante can manipulate or add additional cards to the Ante Zone.
At the end of a game, whoever wins gains Ownership of all cards in the Ante Zone.
@@mrziiz6893 why it's the forbidden keyword?
Because certain state/country laws have restrictions on gambling and MTG doesn't want to deal with that, since Ante *might* fall under those gambling laws. So the rules specify that said rules must be agreed to ahead of time *and* be legal in your state/territory/country
8:02 The TLDR on Lion's Eye Diamond is that without the "Activate only as an instant" you'd be able to use it on one spell in your hand before discarding your hand.
Thank you 😊
"OMNOTH"
"TEEBALT"
"BED EVIL"
I literally can't with you, bro
Notably, the rules of Cascade were changed around the release of Tibalt's Trickery. Orginally you could Cascade into either side of the modal Double-faced cards, which meant cheating the more expansive side.
And of course part of the banning of various Companions came because originally you could just cast them. They didn't have the "pay 3 to put it in your hand" requirement.
But can you cast the "wrong side" of an MDFC using other tricks? Like Sunforger etc? I heard you can do it with Plot still
Yeah split cards + cascade was absurd, you'd cascade into boom//bust and armageddon the board or hey blowing up a couple lands was also great.
@@williamdrum9899 I don't think Sunforger works. Plot does, and I think it'll be remarkably difficult to fix
“Guys I can fix cascade”
“Yes just like you ‘fixed werewolves’?”
Don't forget all the attempts to make a "balanced" Black Lotus.
What's broken about werewolves?
@@Kosher3864 Nothing, they're awful. Wizards can't make Cascade not broken the same way they can't make werewolves good
Wouldn't "take 1 damage for each card exiled" prevent degenerate strategies ?
@@dudono1744 I think that would make it unplayable
Didn't know how much I wanted DuelLogs pronouncing MtG cards until now.
"Militia Bulgger"
"Bed Evil"
"Throne of Eladrin"
no way my mans actually just said “bed-evil”💀
he does this all the time so people comment more. just ignore it and move on
"Bed Evil" is what Magic players think when seeing Oko. 😏
Yeah the amount of mispronounced names is incredible. I'm always wondering if this guy even plays magic.
@@yoyoyo1999ify no, it’s cause he’s reading from a script that he didn’t write
@@dennisjameson6492they’ve said that the narrator is a magic newbie but the writers know what they’re talking aboit
"Bed Evil"
Now I understand why Recurring Nightmare is the way it is
"Bug-ler"
“Eleedrine”
God almighty…
(20:34) "We're not here to dunk on Wizards' design team, as fun as that is." That gave me a good laugh.
I swear he pronounces Eldraine wrong on purpose
You mean Eladrine? 😂
He does the wrong pronunciations on purpose in every video. I think he admitted before it's to fuel the algorithm by having us comment on it
He mispronounced Thraben too, and a couple dozen other words too
Top 10 cards that went the longest before being banned? I also want to see Top 10 Non-power 9 Cards of the 20th Century.
Maybe gitaxian probe would be on that list, it took way too long for that card to be banned. In the context of standard bans though jace and stoneforge took way too long to be banned with a 2 year rotation they didn't get banned until they were set to rotate in a few months. They got banned a week after new phyrexia came out, but it was obvious the only decks would be cawblade decks unless they got banned since even for months prior cawblade was the most dominant standard deck in a long time. You could go to pro tour qualifiers and it would be all mirror matches all day if the format was standard, it was maddening.
@@dark_rit I believe the #1 would be Violent Outburst at 13 years unbanned in modern.
Summer Bloom would have to be in there.
21st century
I remember going to the Throne of Eldraine pre-release and looking at Oko for the first time thinking "How tf did this get through play testing?"
Coming from Yu-Gi-Oh, I always wondered if the Jar cards in that game were a reference to something. I now suspect that Morphing Jar may have been a nod to Memory Jar in Magic.
Their effects are awfully similar. They also came out months apart. Memory Jar being first printed in February '99 and Morphing Jar first being printed in the OCG in October of '99. I suspect that someone at Konami was a fan of Magic.
The creator of yugioh is huge fan of tabletop games, MTG included Summoned Skull's name is directly a MTG reference in the OCG. It is called Summon Demon and the manga art is almost a 1-to-1 to an old mtg demon
Yeah, I like to joke that Takahasi made a Magic the Gathering parody that got *way* out of hand.
@@brendaneichler5244 that isn't a joke, that's the truth
You can find similarities, coincidental or not. There's an MTG Droll Lock combo that is horrible compared to the broken one in Yugioh, though I'm just stretching the similarity.
It says something about current MtG design when 8/10 entries on this list were printed in the past five (5) years immediately following War of the Spark, with the other two being Memory Jar really only qualifying because it was released immediately after the banlist that was supposed to fix Combo Winter, and the other being Mind's Desire which isn't even considered that good anymore.
Also, Modern Horizons 3 has Cranial Ram which R&D have said may warrant a ban in Pauper due to having an effect very similar to the banned cards Cranial Plating and All That Glitters. There may be a new entry to this list, even if it doesn't beat Lutri.
It's also to do with a more aggressive banning strategy where WotC is more willing to ban cards than they were in the past. There's also multiple formats with individual banlists, which opens up more places a ban can happen.
I'm not saying that R&D is perfect, but it's not strictly black and white.
Didnt think this list would be out of date 10 days later, but here we are.
well to go further with "once upon a time" it also needed to be banned in modern because its the same deal but it replaced "Ancient Stirrings" and made it to easy to get the missing tron lands.
and Lurrus (forgive me if mentioned) that vintage ban forced the rules commitee of commander to change their policies of auto banned cards the original clause was "everything banned in vintage" and Lurrus was the First one that was not bannable in commander so they had to categorizes every single type of card banned in vintage instead of that shortcut.
I think if discover only looked at the top x cards with x being the discover number it wouldn't be as bad as cascade since you could easily wiff looking at only 3 cards.
The moment discover got teased I called that the lowest discover cost would be instant banned or break 0 cost spells just the same as cascade.
@@stigmaoftherose It didn't though. The lowest discover cost is Zoyowa's justice (if you target an artifact with mana value 1) but it needs you to have an artifact with mana value 1, which is almost impossible in a deck that only runs 0s and 2+s. So they did cover their tracks. Anything after that is discover 3, which is worse than mv3 cascade spells.
Discover was broken but not in the obvious way. Wizards is not stupid to not know how cascade decks work.
So basically the "Sunbird's Invocation" effect
@@fernandobanda5734It's literally the same mechanic except it's not a cast trigger
@@williamdrum9899 And? They didn't print a card with a playable discover 1 o 2 so it didn't contribute to the established "Play 3s and 0s" strategy, which was what I was responding to.
Lurrus wasn't the first card banned in Vintage for power reasons. Mind Twist was banned in Vintage in 1996 for power reasons. All the fast mana made it possible to force your opponent to discard 4+ cards on Turn 1.
I'm not sure that counts, since while it was the format that did become Vintage, the "no cards banned for power level" philosophy wasn't in place yet.
That wasn't Vintage though. That was just "Magic".
Both of you are incorrect. Type 1 then is known as Vintage today where the card was first banned. Mind Twist remained banned until 2007, well after it was renamed Vintage.
@@CharlesLeeRay812 Mind Twist was unbanned in 2000. To be fair, though, that is a lot longer than I expected it to have been banned. Channel was also unbanned at the time.
@@UsaSatsui you're right it was unbanned and moved to restricted in 2000 and 2007 it was taken off the restricted list.
Oko being printed was the card that 100% convinced me that Hasbro was directly involved with R&D and forcing them to print broken cards to sell boxes. Omnath was even further proof. That was when I lost all faith in Wizards.
Shouldn't have Faith in anything
Thanks for the content on all your channels. We appreciate you.
Winota....this card scares so many Commander players. Its so obviously busted and it can pump a ton of creatures in 1 turn since its effects applies to every single non human attacking.
winota is my fav creature. i damn near never lost with her
With Companions, I entered into a MOM sealed Tournament (where they reprinted the companion) cards and the top three of that tournament were all companion cards. The winner was a Gyruda mill deck using stuff like Realmbreaker and Breech the Multiverse. Second place (and my deck) was Obosh one-shot using Valdarian Thrillseeker and backup to allow quick kills with Thrillseeker's backup ability. Lutri came 3rd which used Horobi to quickly boardwipe by copying targetted effects. After the tournament we agreed that if companion ever comes back we're not allowing companions from outside of the deck.
It's a fascinating phenomenon where no developers of any game actually play their games, whether it be cards or video games.
Note that Mind’s Desire was restricted in Vintage prior to its release date.
How can an ENTIRE COMPANY be so stupid to repeat some mistakes like they did in Underworld Breach and Discover... Hundreds of people were involved and no one said anything like: "guys... Remember Yawgmoth's Will or Cascade?"
"How can an ENTIRE COMPANY be so stupid to repeat some mistakes..."
The thing that irks me the most is lutri is a fine card. It was the RC responsibility to nor accept companion as a commander mechanic. It doesn't make sense for all reasons about deck size. But they gave in to wizards demands and allowed it. That's what really gets me it was a choice not a mistake.
Such a wasted potential for the game.
I mean that’s the best part about commander, it’s a casual format, fuck RC! As long as your friends are okay with it then let’s play em!
I do have to say, compared to Konami and the banlist of standard magic, RC does a pretty good job overall. I think we should cut them a little slack, they’ve earned it.
Bed-evil…lol. Um I think that’s be-devil.
It was until our host got distracted by Oko and thought "bed" like most Magic players. 😏
This video could've waited a few weeks because Cranial Ram is most likely getting pre-banned in Pauper.
Nope.
The Pauper committee wants people to test it before they ban it. There are times when players think a card is going to be busted and ruin a format, only to find out it barely makes a splash. They want to see which way it will go. They are prepared to drop the ban hammer quickly just in case.
I don't think Cranial Ram is getting the hammer. The power of All That Glitters mainly came from the ease of throwing it on cheap evasive creatures like gingerbrute. Cranial Ram comes attached to an unevasive germ, and required extra mana to put it on somthing else. That something else also only gets a 1 toughness boost instead of the +X of ATG. Also, historically, Rakdos hasn't been a good affinity color combo.
@@k9commander The pre-ban is official now.
@@AFreakingLlamaGavin anticipated the card to be banned, that wasn't really a discussion. The question was whether they would pre-ban or let it run loose for a few weeks. Today they pre-banned it.
@@fernandobanda5734
Yeah. I was wrong.
I like how Trickery got banned because it basically turned the game into rock-paper-scissors/gambling to see who wins, and made the game unfun to play, when that is exactly what modern Yugioh has been for years lol I've actually proven this with several people: You can literally just shuffle up and draw your opening hands and just reveal them, see how many hand-traps and starter pieces each player has, and literally just determine who wins that game immediately without actually playing it out. Basically just play RPS or flip a coin at that point and cut out the card game entirely lol
Throne of Elaydrine
Elaydrin!!!!!!!! Pretty sure I play as an Elaydrin paladin in dnd
Skipped a point with Memory Jar. Another problem was that it essentially milled your opponent for 7 cards since they rarely could even use what they drew. I still swear I remember it being banned earlier than this that though. I remember hearing about it being/going to be banned while at the prerelease for the set.
these days you could just play Narset PoV. what makes Memory jar better than Wheel in Commander is it's generic mana so you're commander doesnt even have to be red, playing NPoV and WoF requires red/blue color identity. NPoV and MJ only requires Blue.
Hello from the future. Cranial Ram from Modern Horizons 3 was banned in Pauper MORE THAN A WEEK IN ADVANCE OF ITS RELEASE.
can you please start saying this words properly, youre starting to sound like ai. and like some of the way your saying this is so wrong its like youre doing it on purpose.
Me watching this video made me realize just how crazy 2019/2020 magic was… I must of pushed that time period into the darkest recesses of my mind
I took a break from the game for unrelated reasons but was laughing my ass off at how dumb WotC had gotten. It's like they all got collective brainrot (which isn't far from the truth)
Yeah I havent given wizards my money in years. Ive been saying for quite some time now that it would be amazing how little they would have to ban cards in standard if they A) stopped trying to print commander cards in standard sets and b) bring back modern masters.
Yawgmoth's bargain was banned the fastest. The story goes that in 1999 when Urza's destiny was released. A guy made a Yawgmoth's bargain deck in extended that went off turn one, almost unstoppably, with almost 100 percent turn one going off and winning. He mailed the deck into wotc to show them, before the set was even available for tournament play. They emergency banned bargain in extended format before it was even available. I was around for it.
I recall when Omnath hit and everyone was complaining that this card was created to do nothing more than sell more card packs as everyone knew how broken it was even before the product release. Then the fact it was banned in roughly 2 weeks further fueled the conspiracy that it was left legal just long enough to boost sales for those two weeks.
The description of Mind's Desire says "This is a Sorcery with a Mana Cost of 4 and w Blue".
Easy mistake to make with the number 2 being right above the W.
Its funny that most of these were all printed in a single standard rotation, like wizards just went fucking insane for a year and printed better yawgmoths will vecause fuck it we ball lmao
Me when the video is 10 seconds old
Video's been up longer than some of these cards were legal.
"Bed-evil" "Bul-ger" "Kal-dem"
I hate how much the mispronunciations hurt me 😆
I can top that with dark souls 1 I was calling him gravel lord instead of grave lord
One small correction though I’m not sure how much it matters for the video, killing geological appriser wouldn’t stop discovery as the ability would go onto the stack and resolve if appriser was still on the field or not
Mind's Desire was legal in Extended at the time. I sometimes played a combo deck with Brain Freeze as well.
I don't even remember Geological Appraiser. I was very active at this time. Banned so quick I didn't even notice it.
You'd probably only notice it in Pioneer and the Arena-only Explorer. Standard lacked the broken combo pieces like Eldritch Evolution and 3-mana clones, and the best thing you could hit was probably Imodane's Recruiter. For formats like Modern and older, it didn't have enough interaction to stall before it could combo off, as most of your nonlands had to be either combo pieces or split-faced cards that technically cost more than 6 due to a weird rule.
Geological Appraiser was released on November 17th and Banned on December 4th, tying it with Omnath as being banned 17 days after release not 48 days after release.
I've only ever played timeless and seeing so many cards that I come across regularly on this list was both frustrating and objectively hilarious
"People didn't like playing cards outside their decks and were worried about the state of the game."
Me, running 2 copies of fae of wishes and 4 copies of mastermind's acquisition : 😰😰😰😰
This list is already out of date 10 days later--Cranial Ram just got prebanned in Pauper 😅
Unfortunate
Edit: Pauper not Modern I did something stupid on accident
Pauper*
They should really have just giveny Otter son a different companion requirement. We Rule 0 him in as long as he's not a companion.
Actually that gives me an idea: Top Rule 0s done in commander. Yeah there's no hard data there but maybe you could talk to the community on the subject.
Uhm, Companion cards have always been in the command zone, NOT in the sideboard. This wasn't changed. It's just that the command zone isn't really used in most formats, but it still exists.
If Companions were there since day 1, then that won't be an issue since Yu-Gi-Oh!'s extra decks were a thing.
And speaking of Tibalt's Trickery, it's MtG's Morphtronic Telefon.
Yeah but it would change how the Game evolves around extra decks
@@husuario2942 true. True.
But then again, there are attractions. And those were a bust.
Yu-Gi-Oh! didn't have an extra deck since day one, though.
@@fernandobanda5734 true. But it was an early implementation.
@@fernandobanda5734 YuGiOh did have it day one, but it was called the "Fusion Deck", and it was mostly useless until Magical Scientist FTK and Cyberstein. But even then, the extra deck is not as broken as Companions, since it's more like starting the game with an extra card in hand.
Great list but as a minor nitpick I think it'd be a little nicer if you used the card images from when the card was banned, it's weird to hear "this card was printed all the way back in urza's saga" and then it's a modern border VMA card or commander reprint.
I remember losing to a memory jar deck (Megrim jar in type 2) back at FNM in 1999. Not sure if wasn’t banned yet or we didn’t realize it was.
Kaya the Inexorable and Lutri the Spellchaser is my favorite cards in MTG I love'em.
Are you the same guy from Himuraredx that does the Warcraft videoes? Love the content!
If I remember correctly, Mind's Desire was restricted in Type 1 even before Scourge was released for obvious reasons.
I feel there's a few longtime MTG players that are silently grinding their teeth with pronunciation or are confused. Here's a few examples:
Eldraine is practically said as "El Drain "
Bedevil is usually said like "Be Devil"
Kaldheim is called "Called●hi●m"
Just trying to help avoid confusion with discussions.
Oko is a card where on reveal I looked at the -1 and said "thats so broken, you cant print that, itll be banned immediately." Then I looked at the 4 loyalty and was even more baffled.
And then I realized thats not a minus.
With discover, you can still run cards with a higher cost like virtue of persistence or ones with a channel ability to survive the early game.
Ah, yes, the ever present Bad Dream Kitty. If this channel ever gets an internal banlist Lurrus is definitely going to be on it. Duel/ManaLogs is probably getting sick of talking about that card. Getting banned from a format made for the stupidly busted cards that are banned everywhere else will never stop being hilarious to me.
Almost all these cars have been released in the past few years...
For anyone who wants a good example of JUST how absurd Oko and Krasis were, people were playing Noxious Grasp MAINBOARD to deal with Oko. Noxious Grasp has almost as many pro points as Questing Beast, and no, Grasp wasn't run to stop Questing Beast. Beast didn't start to become a threat until MONTHS after Oko got banned.
This dude has crazy mispronunciations every single video. I love it.
Cranial Ram was also pre banned in pauper.
Skull Clamp was definitely banned faster than some of these.
I find it odd and weird why Lutri didn't come back as a normal creature or a legendary one to be a commander instead of a companion in Bloomburrow which has a focus on otters among rabbits, mice, etc
Um thats not how Drannith Magistrate works in Commander. It doesn't prevent your opponents from casting it from the command zone. The zone was errataed to to be specified to be a non game zone always accessable to a player when it came to zone prevention. It's not in the hand, but it's still something that can always be played. It would need to be named as a target of a "cant be summoned" effect.
Anyone know the name of the song that plays throughout the entire video?
Yeah I started playing magic with friends and made and unbeatable green reflect deck in 2009.. the common reflect card which can be played when your opponents hits and the reflected damage from this card can not be blocked! Yes I am the one who broke magic back then!
Oko is standard was so dope I loved it. It’s banning hurt my soul
Is this wedge from the mana source?
Honestly, I think Cascade is cool as hell lol. It should probably be tied to an extra mana cost to arbitrarily slow it down, but just ripping cards off the top till you get a viable hit is something I vibe with
The way you say eldraine...
😂 Video only came out 2 weeks ago and the list is already outdated with a tie for first place.
Lol “Wizards sometimes makes mistakes”. We might have a different understanding of the word sometimes
I addition, Lutri is a card that's extremely easy to go infinite with, any fastblink card will give you infinite ETB
Lutri was my stamped card for that pre-release set.
“Cascade is a problematic mechanic”
Meanwhile, me with my Zhulodok Commander deck.
I love how there's an "editors note: at 16:27 cuz he mispronounced Escape to the wilds after the narrator mispronounced Eldraine, Planeswalker, Bedevil and Omnath. And thats only the first half xD
Stupid enough, I had several copies of Geological Appraiser before the ban, but none of the cards to play it properly. I wasn't the most online at the time, so I took the things at face value and tossed em in a box.
list needs an update for the pauper preban lol. Absolute mad lads
Companions working in commander makes actually no sense since it takes up a sideboard slot, and sideboard wish cards don’t work. Bad rules just change them to make the game better
Haven't played Magic since 2003 and other than Video Game versions I've never played another TCG. What is the point of a ban list? I mean to me when you have a game that is constantly evolving there shouldn't be anything banned because if you print something with a busted mechanic you can a) change the rules of said mechanic so it cannot be abused, b) reprint the busted card with restrictions so it cannot abuse the mechanic, or c) print new cards that can prevent the abuse and are playable in any deck.
Edit: To explain a little bit with MTG everything has a mana cost with the majority of cards linked to specific colors, but some not linked to colors by being colorless. With that in mind the last card on this list could have easily been changed to colorless since the unfair advantage was noticed pre release, as a colorless card it could be added to any deck thus negating the unfair advantage. Also any card that requires 2 color mana is viable for any deck that uses those 2 colors because any deck built with multiple colors is going to have a lot of 2 or more color land cards to avoid having half or more of the deck being land. If you notice a busted mechanic that is getting abused you can reprint the card abusing said mechanic with a higher mana cost making it only playable later in the game giving the opponent time to potentially draw a counter for said card. If every card with a specific mechanic is broken then you just change the rules of said mechanic rather than ban cards that use said mechanic. If there is no counter for a specific card that can abuse a specific mechanic just print a card that can counter it and make it colorless so that it can be added to every deck. It really is not hard to adjust things in MTG to nerf a card so that it cannot be abused. Of course you will always have people that are deep in the Meta trying to find a way to still abuse a card, but that happens regardless of ban or no ban.
The ban list exists because people will quit the game if it's no longer any fun to play.
@@AlphaetusPrime Yes I get that, but that does not change the point that in a game that constantly evolves with new cards printed every year if you make a card that is OP rather than ban said card you can just print cards to counter it. Or if you create a busted mechanic with a series of cards you can just change the rules of said mechanic rather than ban the cards with said mechanic. Of course none of that matters because regardless of the cards on the list people at the top just find ways to manipulate and break other cards or mechanics which in turn get banned so ultimately there is no point for the ban list to exist.
@@joshuatayloe8616 The strategies you describe have been tried. They simply do not work as well as banning problematic cards.
@@AlphaetusPrime Let me try to explain this better. MTG has been around for 30 years so with power creep and the sheer number of cards printed there are bound to be counters for every card on the ban list. The last time I played MTG seriously the game was built around 4 concepts that players hate more than any banned card. Those are LD, HD, Creature Swap, and Type Change. I'm not saying my deck would be viable in the modern game, but my best deck was a Zombie deck built around Soulless One. It featured LD to prevent myself from being overpowered before I could get Soulless One out, HD to put more Zombies in the Graveyard without having to play them, Creature Swap in case my opponent got creatures out, and if I remember correctly Type Change to change my opponents creatures to Zombies to further boost the power of Soulless One. If you and I were playing with my Zombie deck and you using some banned cards unless you drew into their combos early said combos would do you no good. In order to play those combos you still need Mana or a Hand to play from and at the worst if you were able to get pieces out for said combos I could draw into cards that would give me control of said pieces or change their type to make my best monster even stronger. Again I'm not saying my deck would be viable now because I've seen videos of crazy combos it could not prevent which is just proof the ban list is moot. All the ban list does is force the top players to find some new broken combo pieces and repeat the cycle year after year.
@@joshuatayloe8616 You obviously never played the game in any kind of competitive setting. The deck you describe was NEVER viable.
3:33 Throne of _what_
El-Ay-Dren?
Memory jar is also a card from Yu-Gi-Oh which had a similar effort if I'm not mistaken
This has not aged well considering how Cranial Ram was pretty much banned on announcement, and using that competitive vs casual format rule from earlier, Lutri by mana logs own rules, has been surpassed. Wizards wont let this man breathe.
This guy can give SaffronOlive a run for his money in the mispronouncing words game
Your time line on memory jar is off. It came after the show and tell blue package being banned. It was one of the last cards from the block to be banned
Underworld Breach combo is still the best combo (outside of thassa's consultation) in cedh for every edh player watching this
It’s pretty interesting that a big part of this list is from the current FIRE design era.
Lutri would have been a fun card to play, all they had to do were "banned as a companion"
Desire just sounds so annoying because you have to you Shuffle your library every time it gets copied
excuse me, throne of WHAT?
The pronunciation must be some sort of deliberate paper towns strategy to check if AI is stealing their content.
I've played a Minds desire to storm count 8 and got all mana rocks and X spells in a cedh deck I had 😂
Lutri is one of my favorite cards of all time. I am not a fan of the companion mechanic, just aside from that, he rocks.
“November 17th to December 4th. 48 days later” took me out of it
Tibalts trickery would have been fine if it just said “counter target spell that an opponent controls” instead
I’m still shocked that Tibalt’s trickery was banned that quickly since it wasn’t only for its sole power level.
Honorable mention should go to Felidiar Guardian where it had to be emergency banned 10 days after its ban list it was supposed to be in.
Luturi ban in EDH, yeah huge L for Wizards there. Actually they had to force it to work in EDH otherwise burning wish, and other effects like Karn creator has no effect in the format.
Throne of what
The best part of mind's desire was when you exile another one to cast