Looking for the perfect way to frame and display your favorite Magic: The Gathering, Pokemon, and other standard-sized trading cards? Check out Frameamajigs here: www.kickstarter.com/projects/thingamajigs/frameamajigs?ref=f40j9e
I can't believe you didn't talk about Specialize, you forgot Historic is a format and that Arena mechanics are still Magic mechanics. It was one of they things they did to port Baldur's Gate to Arena as "Alchemy Horizons" and is absolutely awful. They decided to give the cards 5 back faces based on what color/land type you discarded, permanently transforming into that face. But it has absolutely no reason to be like that besides a poorly thought out gimmick, like 1/2s in Unhinged. It could have been transform, but it should have been the actual cards from Baldur's Gate on Arena instead of a lot of them being changed. I would rather have Backgrounds on Arena than Specialize.
What annoys me the most with the day/night mechanic is that it works just _slightly_ differently than how the old werewolf mechanic did, so if you want to make a werewolf tribal commander deck, you have to keep track of _two_ different day/night cycles at once. Pain.
100% agree and I was surprised this didn't get a mention. A friend of mine has a werewolf deck and we have thought about just rule 0ing the old ones to be errated to work the same way. Even with that I can't stand day/night.
@@garykuhn1921 Because they do work ever so slightly differently. I do agree it would make things so much easier, but why would wizards do that? The cherry on top is that in addition to 2 different day/night cycles old cards ALSO always enter face-up even when it's night.
I'll never forget the time I went to to a small magic event, met the professor, and played against his modern merfolk deck when I was like, 16, almost a decade ago. It was pretty awesome, and I'm only like, 7% sure it want a hallucination
Fun fact, those dungeons aren't actually reminder tokens. Those are an actual card type that sits in your command zone when you have em active. This means that you can name dungeon with cards like Serra's Emissary, which can protect you from a very select variety of room effects.
Reasons why I'm sad the initiative didn't have a oversized dungeon card like the adventures in F ones did. Cause I wanted to have all oversized ones...
so can we name Emblem? Planes? Schemes? I'm not sure these are card types, they are in card format but not able to be picked at least it isn't listed in The Gatherer
Braid of Fire is extra interesting because it's only as good as it is now due to rules being changed over time. Specifically, the removal of the rule around "mana burn", where emptying mana out of your pool due to switching phases would cause you to take damage equal to the amount of mana lost. It was still great even with mana burn, but you needed to build your deck around either winning quick or having an unlimited source to sink that ever-increasing amount of mana into at instant-speed.
I'm surprised you didn't even mention the worst part about Venture, which is that they made it even more needlessly complex by adding Take the Initiative
Problem is, initiative is pretty abusable. As seen in legacy with the white weenie/D n’ T decks. Venture is just bad in all aspects aside from one card.
@@MFewwy my first reaction to initiative for surprisongly positive (a Monarch variant where you can choose different effects to fit your playstyle). In practice, it's a pain in the @ss and can snowball quite easily, bcs unlike monarch you can take the initiative multiple times a turn.
I feel like my biggest gripe with MTG mechanics these days is that with the one and done set format (as opposed to the older 3 set format) is that some mechanics really benefitted from having those extra sets to either bulk out the card pool (and make those mechanics more viable in edh) or to just refine what's possible.
This is a huge flaw with MTG these days. Every idea has to be explored to its full extent in just one set, which means there isn't enough space for variety and texture. It happens with the stories, too: the introduction, climax, plot twist and resolution are all released at the same time, so it doesn't really feel like there's a story at all.
I agree. The trilogy era did get a bit tedious sometimes because the third set of the linked trilogy tended to be boring in a mundane trilogy (sometimes not even linked with the other 2 sets of the trilogy), & the most OP set of them all when an entire trilogy was inherently OP (LOOKING AT YOU, Fifth Dawn!!!)... but there were plenty of trilogies where the 3rd set was decent, & there's almost never been a trilogy where the second set wasn't a great support to the first. Plus there's the 2&1 era, where the linked duologies ALWAYS tended to work well & the 3rd partial-standalone set USUALLY ended the story well while being large enough to do what they did without needing another set to support them because they were linked to the first by story even though not by game rules. Personally I think duologies are the way to go except in rare occasions where a 3rd set is indeed necessary. The history of M:tG has proven it to be so time & time again.
I miss blocks. Even the 2 set blocks were better. Idk it kinda felt tht way a bit with dominaria- all will be one at least flavor wise... but I wish new sets we got 2/3 set blocks and if we're returning to places thts we're we can have 1 shot sets.
Block of two always felt like the most natural design decisions from my perspective. I've never understood the aggressive need to create rules and format structure for printing sets. Just make what feels right for the mechanics and standard and then explore a bit from there. There doesn't need to be a hard and fast rule for releasing sets and blocks and I don't understand, from a design perspective, the intense need for the design team to produce these "rules" just to break them or have them limit design. It's almost like in the video game world where game companies have reached a point of communication on development that almost feels toxic. Game design being openly broadcast to the public years before the release date has produced this list of expectations for roadmaps and bullshit that ultimately gets abandoned or forces awkward mechanics and rushed development.
The 'one and done' really has soured me on any hype for releases. Ikoria, despite it being kinda a mechanical mess, was the most fun I had not only cracking packs but playing. And it got no further love to broaden/focus the mechanics, let alone the plane itself. :/
I have a whole enter the dungeon commander deck and it’s honestly verry fun to play. As long as you just bring the reminder tokens everyone will catch on really quick on how it works and there are a lot of fun synergies
I had that mindset, but than learned that such cards must be proxied, if you didn't happen to get big cards, or even smaller token ones. Luck's on my side, because I love me those printed biggies, but still, making a good and functional EDH deck with venture is hard. I'd rather selesnya or aggro red.
Cumulative Upkeep is a reminder of the original purpose of the Upkeep phase and why it's named that. It was the point in the game where you would be expected to pay for the maintenance of very powerful cards like Force of Nature or Lord of the Pit. And over time that aspect of the game mostly fell away and the Upkeep phase just became the part of the game where all or most of your once per turn triggered abilities happened. Edit: Should have said Upkeep step, not phase.
It's a great mechanic! As is Cypher. Both have amazing potential but have only been deployed with massive undue caution. Sort of the opposite of Companion, which they implemented with zero fucking caution. Dungeons (and the Initiative, and The Ring Tempts You, which are all just dungeons by another name) flat out suck though. They cannot be redeemed. Day and night is also pretty grim, but not as bad as the dungeons imho - in theory all the info can be on the table at least.
@@japplek the Ring Tempts You is far less bad than Dungeon/Initiative mechanics since it’s more straightforward and only adds text to one creature’s textbox. My Sauron the Dark Lord EDH deck uses it and it’s definitely not to its detriment. The worst thing about it is that it’s a flavor fail
@@StJimmy765 that's fair. I think it is in the same family as the actual dungeons, but it's also by far from the worst of them. Astonishing flavour fail though.
"and the Upkeep phase just became the part of the game where all or most of your once per turn triggered abilities happened." And even that purpose is gradually shifting to beginning of first main phase/beginning of combat/beginning of the end step which all play much better.
That's not true at all. Historically, many Cumulative Upkeep cards have been amazing, at least 10 have seen real tournament success. You can't say they designed it cautiously, they just designed it well.
Personally I think one of the worst things about the "day/night" mechanic is that older wearwolf cards were not errata'd to include the keword. Thus making the potential of wearwolf tribal decks either messy, impossible or clunky
I would have enjoyed seeing Venture into the Dungeon as a Plane chase type deal. An extra layer that all parties can agree to add over the game if they wish.
If you want a real "Captain America in Time's Square" moment, just wait until you have to describe Mutate to a player who has never heard of it, and all the fun, wacky interactions it has with so many established mechanics.
My favourite part was how the mutate rules changes were supposed to be this clear, exhaustive, robust refit of the concept of "multiple cards or tokens becoming a single game object" that future combination mechanics could refer back to instead of increasingly confusingly reinventing the wheel, and that was why they overengineered it so much, and since then the concept has only returned for BRO's revival of Meld which to the best of my knowledge is not affected in any player-experience-streamlining way at all by those changes.
Mutate is the strange example of a mechanic that is simple to understand if you are new to MTG, but will cause migraines for people who are experienced with the rules of the game
Devil's Advocate: part of what made haunt bad has been fixed. Haunt is a much easier keyword to understand in current year because we have the terms "dies" and "exile", phrases that didn't exist withon rules text when Haunt was originally used causing very wordy and confusing textboxes. The modern printings of Haunt cards found in the Guild Kit preconstructed decks from a couple of years ago read very clearly and intuitive. However your other points still remain.
The real problem with Haunt is that the creature has an ETB trigger, but instead of just having a death trigger, it has a death trigger that requires ANOTHER death trigger before you get anything. And the creature it’s haunting doesn’t really matter other than it has to die somehow. It’s so clunky.
Back when werewolves first became a thing, I immediately thought a day/night mechanic would be cool (but i always think of bad mechanics) when it then became a thing, i immediately mourned all the werewolves that were already printed!
Agreed, day/night sounded amazing but too difficult to keep track of and the benefits werent that great. At least with the cards my pod had and tried out
Werewolves are my second favorite mythical creatures with dragons being the only thing beating them. Was getting into Magic again after a several year dry spell and went looking to make a werewolf themed commander deck and this day/night mechanic often just makes me want to hit my head repeatedly into a wall... guess it's dragons instead
It seems to be a specific breed of terrible mechanic- something im going to call the Video Game Idea. “Hey, wouldn’t it be cool if we had a modal turn state effect to represent day and night/explorable dungeons with boons and traps/cards that level up?” It’s always, always an effort to make someone else’s mechanic work in magic rules. Like a burger someone tried to blend into a smoothie.
Dark Ascension was one of the first sets I ever drafted (holy shit, that was 12ish years ago). First pack I opened had a foil Huntmaster of the Fells. I grabbed it because it looked cool and seemed like a good card. That led into building a RG werewolf deck, which ended up netting me 1st place. It was pretty disappointing when they kinda reworked the day/night werewolf transform mechanic, which kinda wrecked the old cards. I’ve thought about eventually building an edh deck around Huntmaster, at least for nostalgia’s sake
I recently built a cube with the theme of having a representative of each named mechanic, and it really makes you appreciate just how troublesome some mechanics are, or just plain misguided. But you haven't lived until you see a Charge Across The Araba for lethal
I like to think that the disturb cards from Crimson Vow are the spiritual successor to haunt. Creature spirits that die and return haunting a creature as a form of enchantment.
Yeah, definitely a similar flavor. I like that haunt was more flavorfully bad for the opponent whereas disturb was flavorfully more beneficial to you. I think haunt could def make a comeback if they leaned heavily into the negative for the opponent aspect of it. IMO def not one of the worst mechanics
@@mattm7798 nah haunt was just bad, needing the haunted creature to die to actually trigger the effect just made it too clunky. Disturb is the fixed, superior version of it, and has as many bad effects as good ones (Sinner's Judgement in particular being pretty much the nastiest curse ever printed).
I just came back to MTG in the last few weeks, joining in the LOTR set for drafting. I noticed The Ring mechanic is quite wordy and that it's not the first time I heard that MTG was doing IP crossovers. It's definitely interesting for me to hear the criticism that these crossovers are exactly that - wordy - as well as sometimes game-breaking, sometimes taking you out of the game (as with the D&D tie-in), and making the game not feel like Magic.
At least the LOTR set had "The Ring Tempts You" absolutely everywhere all over it, so if you drafted/played the set for any length of time you'd know the 4 'stages' of the Ring pretty quick. In the grand scheme of things the things the ring does are basically keyworded anyway: 1) Ringbearer is legendary and can't be blocked by creatures with greater power (Legendary and Skulk) 2) When ringbearer attacks, draw a card and discard a card (Loot) 3) If the ringbearer is blocked, the blocking player sacrifices it at the end of combat (Deathtouch, sorta) 4) When the ringbearer deals damage to a player, each opponent loses 3 life. (Not keyworded but also really comprehensible) Long term though, I'm pretty sure we won't have to remember much about it as LTR released as direct-to-Modern and every card with Tempt on it seems to have failed to make the cut into 60-card Modern or earlier. For EDH it's possible to build, but with how Tempt works it's likely that you either build a LOT of it or none at all.
They brought back cumulative upkeep in Coldsnap because that set was supposed to be the "long lost 3d set in the Ice Age block." and cumulative upkeep first appeared and featured heavily in Ice Age.
@@egoalter1276 Elder Dragons were not in Antiquities but in Legends, and they didn't feature cumulative upkeep whatsoever (just a "normal" kind of upkeep).
@@BaalBlade Given that we saw they could make the "upkeep cost" anything, including _gaining_ mana, I can't help but think there's some kind of "fix" for Cumulative Upkeep. Though this would require deviating from the intended spirit of the keyword.
@@Bluecho4 At the time of Coldsnap's printing, mana burn was a thing, so if you couldn't spend the mana during Upkeep, you would either have to sacrifice it, or take a lot of damage
The case of Braid of Fire is very interesting. Since ColdSnap is from 2009, and Mana Burn (mana unspent during a phase deals 1 damage to you, for each mana unspent) was removed on 2010. There was a frame of time where Braid of Fire's Cumulative upkeep was a very high risk one, since if you didnt have and instant in hand, or a source to spend that mana in your upkeep, this enchantment was gonna star killing you on your upkeeps (and very fast mind you). Since the remove of the Mana Burn mechanic, yes, Braid of fire has no risk whatsoever and is just extra mana on your upkeep.
@@Shishkebarbarian You do lose it. Otherwise it would be ran everywhere you can jam mana rocks into, it costs as much. As is, if you don't have a sink or an Omnath, you're pretty much just limited to instants or taps. Next Omnath deck I make - I'm jamming four of these in. I had forgotten about it.
@@darebrained Are you sure about that? Granted, my only exposure to Magic pre-2017 was in the Microprose Shandalar game, but I swear mana-burn and losing mana happened between phases as well.
@@darebrained well, maybe at some point sure. But this moment in time was relevant during 2009 Magic rules. So I went to the wiki achive and read the rules of that time abiut mana burn. The next is from the wiki itself: "From the Comprehensive Rules (May 1, 2009-Alara Reborn) 300. General (Obsolete) 300.3. When a phase ends (but not a step), any unused mana left in a player's mana pool is lost. That player loses 1 life for each one mana lost this way. This is called mana burn. Mana burn is loss of life, not damage, so it can't be prevented or altered by effects that affect damage. This game action doesn't use the stack. (See rule 406, "Mana Abilities.")" Not trying to be a d**k about it, just sharing my finds about mana burn in 2009.
I wish companion made you exile a card from your hand in order to cast them, so it wasn’t necessarily a free card. I actually think the mechanic is really cool, and wish it hadn’t earned itself such a bad rep almost immediately I’ll also say I’m surprised Cleave didn’t get a mention lol
I'd swap 1 and 2. Day/night is extremely annoying but it didn't break every format, even vintage. Companion was a worse mistake. It may not be as annoying to have in your game, but the damage it did on almost every format was higher than really any one card or mechanic ever printed.
With companion you can still play as usual. You just have an advantage at an insignificant cost, and both sides can pick their advantage by picking a companion. Other card games have similar things built in into their systems, kind of like classes in Hearthstone. Day/night however introduces an extra element BOTH players have to track for the whole game. And thats +1 thing to keep track of per card.
Companion was so bad it got a card banned from Vintage out of power lever concerns for the first time because restricting a companion does nothing. Of course it’s the worse of the two
I think cipher has so much potential, putting it on something that inherently pushes forward a strategy would make for a really interesting idea, like a burn spell, so you could clear out their blocker and then get another burn spell to use against their face, just hope it sees some support at some point
Kinda a pity the Prof didn't showcase/mention Trait Doctoring when discussing Cipher - even compared to the rest of cipherable cards that one is a stinker...
I think he mentioned it in the video already - the problem with Cipher is that there's very little room to make a balanced card with it? You either gonna end up with something that's terribly underpowered and won't see play, or absolute buster that's gonna warp the format It could be made into diet version, where you can cast it once after you attack with a creature? That could be a fun idea, tbh?
Cipher's probably my favorite mechanic. I've build so many decks around Hidden Strings and how broken 4 mana untap 4 permanents is with ramp, proliferate, alt win cons etc. Stolen Identity is really fun too if you don't mind keeping track of clone tokens and which one is who. I know Guild keywords are banned from showing up again outside their block but I wouldn't mind if they made some new Rav cards 'playing the hits' featuring the best mechanic added from each Guild.
Listening to MaRo's "Drive to Work" original episode on Innistrad is fascinating, cause originally Day/Night WAS the way the mechanic worked, but they scrapped it for OG innistrad for all the reasons you outlined here. I'm not caught up so I don't know why they thought it was a good idea to implement it again when they knew why it was bad. :/
@@joebaumgart1146 yes, but before the rework you could use 6 mana t1 with him. 3 mana to cast him, immediately bring back black lotus and have another 3 mana. Even with the tax it's too strong but without the 3 mana tax it was Insanity.
I like how you explained cumulative upkeep, then commented on braid of fire being an upside cost when in fact it was NOT when released. Cold snap was released in 2006, when mana burn was still in magic. So playing braid of fire meant putting yourself on a clock if you failed to spend all your mana during your upkeep, which got harder and harder to do as the game progressed. Mana burn was later removed prior to the release of alara reborn in 2009, meaning THEN braid of fire became all upside.
As someone who runs a Kros EDH deck, Sheltering Ancient is my best friend. A 2-mana 5/5 with trample, with a CU of "put a +1/+1 counter on target creature an opponent controls". You goad so many creatures, it's a thing of beauty.
@@danhendricks5896 The idea with Braid was that you'd use it to pay *other* cumulative mana costs. So it was a support card when it was released that turned into pure upside when mana burn was removed
@@kindlingkingcumalitave upkeep is an optional cost, but it'd be cool if you had to run removal for your own enchantment, or even more cards with additional costs (the additional cost being getting rid of your enchantment)
I can't believe mutate wasn't on this list in a very high position. Mutate is an utter nightmare rules wise and there are some very weird and niche interactions that are completely bonkers and will break your brain. Mutate is the epitome of "reading the card doesn't explain the card"
I’m baffled as well. Ok I get not liking dungeons, but if you have the dungeon token, it’s reasonably self-explanatory. With mutate … it’s just a judge call waiting to happen.
It's always fun seeing a differing pov that you can agree with completely. I've found it easier to think of it as "Target another non-Human you control as you cast this spell. Choose this creature or the target, the chosen creature gains all abilities of the unchosen card", and because it's kind of a creature-based bestow it's one of my favorite mechanics idea-wise.
I think Venture could have an in-universe flavor if they used it alongside Zendikar. The setting built around adventuring into lost ruins and depths like a D&D game.
Remember when they introduced Venture there was talk about potentially creating additional dungeons one day. Which would be really cool in a game that wasn't Magic the Gathering
@@giuseppevgiordanoMaybe it is me being a MTGA player that also loves D&D, but I don't get why those dungeon cards are so bad. I get the points on the video, but can't they be solved by bringing up them on a laptop or phone if you don't have them in person? The set itself was lots of fun, especially in drafts. Rolling that Nat 20 always was a blast, even if rolled against you
@@ThePizzaMan48 think like this, you can like it or not, but it doesn't interact with the whole rest of the game, even if you like it you won't be happy for a long time because it's something separated and a lot of times underwhelming
@@giuseppevgiordano I played with it a lot in limited during the entire time it was in standard and still enjoy it. The satisfaction of actually getting a draft that can complete a dungeon and watching as you grind out value is a blast!
I think I enjoyed Venturing the Dungeon more than Day/Night tracking as it’s easier to track. I think it can still be reskin to Zendikar or Ravnica of some adventure flavor
Surprised you didn't mention the new "The ring tempts you" mechanic, as I feel that's much more complicated than dungeons, needing a back side of an entire rules card just to explain how the front side works.
I expect it didn't make the list because it remains to be seen if any of those cards see play in any format besides LTR limited. But if they do, I can definitely see it making a future version of this list for the same reason "venture into the dungeon" made it on.
@@laboratorymaniac7324there are definitely ones that gonna see play. The whole set has it stapled on cards it doesn't even make sense on. And it's pretty strong I would say having a creature draw and discard everytime you connect. 🤔
the ring mechanic isn't even comparably complex. it's simple af. it's basically a level up ability. I also think it's pretty good, fun and easy to keep track of.
I'd like to also point out that Haunt was also put on instant and sorcery cards, such as Cry Of Contrition. And thus, worked slightly differently to the creatures that had Haunt on them. So the mechanic actually has two different reminder texts. SO INTUITIVE.
@@christophercombs7561 So a spell with Haunt reads: (When this spell card is put into a graveyard after resolving, exile it haunting target creature.) It's different to a creature with Haunt, which reads: (When this creature dies, exile it haunting target creature.) Also seeing the rules text of a spell laid out with haunt is weird. You hae the effect of the spell, then the Haunt reminder text in the middle, then the haunt trigger n effect at the bottom. It's weirdest with Seize The Soul where the word Haunt is just floating in the middle of two hefty walls of text.
@@MichaelBrandon-cp8jqseems like it would've been better if it just said "when this is sent to the graveyard". I really like that the card does 2 different things when being played vs when it's haunting but it is a lot of text
@@juliandacosta6841 "When sent to the GY" makes it trigger off of non-fielded effects, eg handrips, mills, or even returning it from Exile to GY somehow
While not specifically a keyword, I do really miss tribal, as it allowed you to interact with more card types than just Creatures when you build your deck
Surprised with Enter the Dungeon being on here, you didn't at least add Initiative in to that slot or give it it's own, since it has similar issues and bent Legacy in half for a while.
@@TeamSprocket to me this is the biggest problem. Its never a fun time at a game when someone plays a card and the explanation is "its ___ except kinda not."
i think the fact that they're 2 different mechanics was a terrible decision. i was holding out hope that they would continue the Venture mechanic and just add new dungeons to BG. i really despise modern magic sometimes. half the sets of the last 2yrs and mind numbingly annoying to play.
Imo, initiative is far worse than enter because it forces opponents to also make dungeoneering choices and also triggers at inconvenient, missable times It combines the persistence of monarchy/daynight with the complexity of dungeons, and I despise it
@@ScornfulEg0tistNo, it doesn't. The initiative triggers only trigger one of two times and none of them miss timing at all. Take the initiative works exactly like venture to the dungeon. So every time you cast the card that says take the initiative it causes a dungeon venture trigger. Whenever you do combat damage to someone, you take the initiative and it causes a dungeon trigger. During your upkeep you get a dungeon trigger. Those are the only three situations are which you get those triggers. So unless you're finding out ways to flash in, take the initiative creatures or attacking on someone else's turn or taking your upkeep on someone else's turn, which three things I just mentioned I don't even think it's possible then I'm pretty sure you're not going to miss a trigger. The only issue that those two mechanics have is that the rules text for venture into the dungeon and take the initiative exists on different cards. And I half agree about it. Making people make dungeonering decisions but only because that person wouldn't have the reminder cards because their dick wasn't designed with dungeon diving in mind.
I kind of want to build a Dauthi Voidwalker mill deck with paranoid delusions, but I don't think it will be fast enough, especially compared to normal mill.
I really like mechanics that make creatures modular, like cipher, mutate, ability counters, auras, etc. But sadly, the speed and composition of the game makes it so most of those mechanics aren't quick and simple enough to be viable.
11:21 I like the “Enter the Dungeon” feature. Like the event card variant, that came with the commander decks of March of the Machines, it adds a little change up to the game.
I also had no problem understanding the dungeons and I am no expert. I’ve been playing on and off with my ancient decks and a few more modern decks and none of mine have a turn three win nor are they confusing like the video commander games of players who have these complex combos that infinitively go on and on, leaving you to wonder if they are cheating.
I find Day/Night bad even if you have it tracked automatically. I want to play with werewolves but having absolutely zero control over whether they are werewolves on my turn makes that a pain.
Yeah the Prof's complaints about it don't really hold up. So what if you have to bring a token with you? You built your deck to use the mechanic, so it's not like it's you're surprised when the ability triggers...
I made a B/W Venture deck in Historic, and I've had people concede to me on the spot when I cast a Cloister Gargoyle. People really hate Venture, but I really love it.
@@SamTebbs33 I can see where he comes from, especially in a new player aspect. It’s a mechanic that can take some time to wrap your head around. He makes a lot of valid points, but at the end of the day magic is a game about playing with the cards you enjoy playing, and I love me some venturing cards.
ikr? AFR was the set that got me into Magic and I immediately really liked the dungeons - they're like tiny board games that give me goodies, isn't that fun? Though I can see how tiresome it would become if mechanics that "require" tokens were more common in non-rotating formats. Imagine a deck with Venture into the Dungeon, Take the Initiative, Daybound/Nightbound, Open an Attraction, Monarch, etc. all at the same time. lol
Prof forgot that by adding the 3 to put companions in hand actually gave them another form of utility. It turned any companion into pitch fodder for either the MH1 Force cycle and MH2 pitch elemental cycle.
I'm surprised the LTR set didn't have any "party" card in it. Seems like a missed opportunity to expand the mechanic since the characters travelled in a party. Also, I personally love the dungeon delve mechanic personally, especially my WBUR version that includes Isshin and Hama Pashar so I can go through 2 levels of the dungeon off of one attack and double the ability of each dungeon.
The dungeon mechanic is one of my favorites. I have all the tokens and even bought goblin miniatures perfectly sized to mark the progress for everyone. One of my friends has a similar negative take on the mechanic as he usually plays theft decks (his favorite being Tergrid) and thus never feels satisfied until every permanent is under his control. So it is funny when he stares at the one thing he can't take. 😂
Party was a fun idea. I really hope they flesh it out more. Especially with some better pay offs and maybe a few more cards like Burakos who counts as each party member. Maybe dual classed cards where two of the types needed are on a card. Can be a good way to flesh it out.
There are cards that count as each party member already, they just need a tiny bit more love: Changelings! They fit into any tribal deck, which is partially why the cards themselves may not be the most powerful, but you can certainly do a lot with them.
@@johnbuscher Yeah I run a tribal tribal commander deck that’s filled with changelings and tribal lords. I actually have some party cards in there. I just want more flavorful options of actual Wizards, Rogues, Warriors, and Clerics. In DnD there’s multiclassing so having a warrior cleric or wizard rogue fits that idea.
Damn, I was thinking about Cipher when the video started and I'm sad to see it on the list lol... I love Call of the Nightwing in my Captain N'Ghathrod horror tribal deck Also, my biggest gripe with Day/Night is that they didn't errata old werewolves to work with the new system. Things like Moonmist just don't work with new werewolves because those werewolves are locked to their human side during the day. Simple erratas like "transform all humans, and if it's day, it becomes night" would be super easy to do. Sure, it would transform some nonhumans from the newer set as well, but I'd accept that in order for the card to work with new werewolves. The non cross compatibility between sets is what irritates me the most because I was like "finally! A return to Innistrad where they're focusing on werewolves!" I was then very disappointed because the old werewolf tech doesn't really work with the new werewolves and vise versa.
Not to mention if you have sleeved cards. I played a guy once, who was sooo excited to break in his new r/g werewolf commander deck when Midnight Hunt came out. 2 hours later, he was still taking each wolf out of the sleeve, turning it over, putting it back and he looked completely exhausted.
It would have benefited from some evolution. The 'do X when haunted creature dies' thing wasn't all it was capable. It could have acted as a pseudo-aura which I think would have a lot more design space and could have worked similar to disturb.
I believe the head designers of both AFR and Baldur’s Gate have talked about considering party. The mechanics requires a lot of support to make work within the limited environment and party creatures aren’t exhaustive of the classes you’d expect in a D&D party anyway to the flavour isn’t necessarily great. Might be misremembering, it would be on the relevant drive to work episodes.
@@Uryendel Depends what your metric is. Party was a big part of ZNR’s limited environment. A huge proportion of the creatures count towards party size and there are cards that call out party at common and up. From the limited perspective the set if full of party cards. I get that it doesn’t look like that if the standard is constructed-level party cards, by that measure I agree there aren’t many of them. My point was more the designers felt that putting party in either AFR or CLB would have required warping the limited environment in the same way that ZNR’s was. They have talked about why party wasn’t in those sets, it’s just that they talked about it in pretty obscure places.
Not quite. The people working on AFR were asked not to make party effects that overshadowed Zendikar party mechanics, where it originated, as both were in standard at the same time. The AFR folk decided that rather than just making a weak version of it, they wouldn't use it at all.
@@jamesshearer9705 I mostly just remember it because it's one of those situations where I can't help but think about how bad of a reason I think it is, but simultaneously totally get it lol
I love Cumulative Upkeep. It gives you something strong for a LIMITED time, so you gotta time it right and that is and was fair. Whether the effects were not strong enough is not the CU's problem - Brand of Ill Omen or Ancestral Knowledge were pretty good cards and Dreams of the Dead was freaking AWESOME with a haste or strong tap ability.
Fun fact: Braid of Fire initially could be a drawback as well. Mana is removed from your mana pool between phases, so you have to spend it during your upkeep. But Braid of Fire was printed in a time when mana burn existed, and you took damage for unspent mana. So if you didn't have a mana sink, or it got removed, you could be taking tons of damage.
I think a lot about the inverse: mechanics that really SHOULD be keywords, because they're very common these days but very wordy. 'Loot' and 'Rummage' are basically community keywords that most players wind up knowing. 'Flicker' too, though they'd have to clarify when, exactly, you return it: the original Flicker card was 'immediately after', but the popular Flickerwisp is 'at the beginning of the next end step. One of the wordiest mechanics that I see a lot is: 'Look at the top cards of your library. You may , then put the remaining cards in '. The fact that there's several variables here makes me hesitate to think of a single overarching mechanic but there should be one for the most /common/ variant, which is 'put that card in your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library'. Scryfall alludes to this as an impulse effect so let's pretend 'impulse' is the keyword here - i.e. instead of, say, Overgrown Pest's: "Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal a land or double-faced card from among them and put that card into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.", it'd be something like 'Impulse 5 for a land or double-faced card'.
There's definitely a downside to having too many keywords. In general, I think they should be used very sparingly. Complexity creep is a very real consideration, and if a game has too many keywords it begins to introduce playability and accessibility problems.
I Love Mutate...but you are right. But hey, everytime i play one of my Mutate Decks (Nethroi or Otrimi) it feels a little bit like playing the Digimon TCG...wich none of my Group besides me play...
About a year ago I played Magic for the first time since Scars of Mirrodin. Other player was doing all types of enter the dungeon stuff, and some other keyword that made no sense. I had no idea what was happening or how it worked and haven't played again since.
The Dungeon cards are not reminder tokens, they have their own type. They are not optional, you have to have them with you if you want to play a dungeon and you have to place them in your command zone. It's something slightly different from the typical MTG experience but me and everyone in my usual party actually enjoy this mechanic a lot. Otherwise great video, agreed with the rest.
I've always thought that infect is one of the worst mechanics out there. As Maro has often said, poison's biggest problem is that it's essentially just a second life total - just a meaningless number that doesn't do anything until it hits the threshold where you lose. Infect not only fails to solve or even address that problem at all, it exacerbates it by bringing poison and life even closer together, making the only difference between them being the number that you're counting to. It makes the whole thing feel completely pointless, and I've always felt that a bad mechanic that at least changes some things is better than one that simply has no reason to exist.
I personally love the Dungeon Mechanic and Initiative, I used to have an issue with non-intractable objects like emblems when they first debuted but got over it. However, if like me, you are a dungeon/initiative player, it's your responsibility to bring enough dungeons/initiatives/tokens or proxies of them so that you and everyone you are playing with can track or see what needs to be seen.
Very much agree. I've been a Sefris main ever since the AFR pre-cons, and I've found that as long as you have the tokens available to read and share out, and track meticulously and use it as a focus point of the deck it isn't so bad. Makes a great value engine, has late game pay offs and combos, many of which are enough to win without being infinite like the known acerak/rooftop. I think it should've been flavored generically or as a magic IP (I agree with Universes Beyond problems) and that Venture/Initiative should've been the same mechanic, one or the other changed to match the other (I think Initiative should've just been Venture with an extra dungeon, and dismiss the upkeep/monarch effect.) and I think that might've helped make the mechanic so much more acceptable. I love Prof and the content, but I think Dungeons are a Player problem and deck building problem more than a mechanics problem. As a were-wolf lover though... Day/Night is awful... its very nice, and great on automated. but if you lose track. Yikes. Not a fan.
Cumulative upkeep is a mechanic I absolutely hated when it came out in Ice Age, but as I played the game longer, I started to understand it better. It’s pretty tactical and that is what I like about it 🤷♂️ Anyway, great video prof, thanks for making this one.
I dislike The Ring Tempts You for exactly the same reasons as you said for Venture Into The Dungeon. Very well-put as always. Though I disagree a bit on Day/Night because a house rule of "if you forgot, it's day" solves most of its problems.
I really like the venture into the dungeon mechanic. Anyone playing with it will have their dungeon emblems with them the same as someone who's playing a tokens deck will have their tokens or some facsimile of them. And Sithis is played a good amount in Commander, she's an awfully overpowered reanimator who can see turn three angel of ruin or other esper powerhouses(I have a grudge against angel of ruin).
Here, here! My main deck I'm working on is a custom D'n'D deck built specifically around the Venture, dice rolling, and Dragons concepts. I have a handful of other "characters" built into the deck as well, like Ellywick, Lolth, Zariel, and such. Sure I also have Prosper and Vrondiss decks, but those are precons, and as a DM I wanted to build a deck from a DM's perspective. So playing the deck in a pod, my "opponents" basically become my adventuring party, and the EDH game becomes like an actual D'n'D session! 😁 I haven't yet been able to sit down with it in an active game yet, but in solo testing it seems to work mechanic-wise fairly well. I've followed many of the tried-and-true guidelines for building Commander decks: I've got a good balance of lands and mana rocks, some huge Dragons but also a fair number of smaller creatures I can get out early, good spell base with a couple board wipes and win-cons in there... I can shuffle as many times I want and still get a pretty decent opening 7 each time. It makes a lot of treasures, has some pretty decent positive table interaction... If I get the chance to actually play the thing live I'm hoping for good outcomes.
yeah ngl, the whining about "reading the card doesn't explain the card" I see with the dungeons feels really unfair. If you're in a situation where they're relevant but don't know at all what the dungeons are it's 99.9% a problem the person playing the dungeon cards created. Limited as the dungeons in packs, and if you're bringing q deck with dungeons, you should have either physical or digital references for the dungeons easily accessible. If you don't then that's your fault not the mechanic, just like if you played a counters deck with no dice or other marker for counters
@@gwenyurick9663 I agree completely. Plenty of things require additional resources to track, and adding things like this just makes more ways to play our favorite game! I even have an attractions deck from Unfinity that works really well and is mechanically sound.
Totally agree my main deck is focused on the dungeon mechanic, as with tokens is your responsibility to keep track of it and bring the necessary dungeon cards
seconding this. I have a deck that happens to have one venture into the dungeon card (the only deck i have that has that) and I just keep that token in the deckbox. It’s pretty simple to use a d6 to track on there, and most people have dice on hand already anyway
Hey, I freaking love cipher cards. They're brutal and make for a unique method of voltron deck that works even better in a sort of spell slinger deck with magecraft abilities. I use them mainly with Wrexial, but they also work in decks with unblockables like ninjas.
i love venture into the dungeon. it is completely stupd needing additional cards and reading up on it multiple times a match just for everyone to be on the same page though, but there are a lot of magic cards that do that.. :D
The mechanic I thought was the most tedious would be the arena exclusive Specialize mechanic, which has the power of making every card containing it 6 sided. One base version, then adding the cost of specifically discarding a colored spell or land to use one of the 5 variants. I just dislike that when I deck build commander, searching for an ability might end up with specialize popping up even though the card pool would make it practically impossible for that ability to work with the colors I have
The reasons Party wasn't brought back was pretty explicitly stated. It required they focus too much of the set on those 4 creatures types for the draft to work, and they would have to prioritize that over making cool and flavorful D&D cards. They felt the larger priority was making a set that hit a lot of the D&D references players wanted, so thats what they went with. MaRo has written articles and done podcasts talking about this and everything.
@@redfiveish That is quite a leap from this considering they were a year apart anyway. Even if they were 3 set blocks it wouldn't have changed this fact. The problem wasn't that it wouldn't have enough support in standard. It was that it wouldn't have enough support in draft.
@@OtakuNoShitpost they could have and it only would have meant having way fewer of all of the uniqe monsters to D&D, not referencing a bunch of other classes people love, and limiting which pre existing characters can appear to mostly ones who are of those classes. A trade I doubt most D&D fans would make.
actually, I remember seeing in a design article that the reason they didn't put party in the dnd sets was because the classes didn't match up. they were thinking of doing megaparty, which is just the number of creature types that are on seperate creatures. the explanation was in "doing baldurs gate, part 1"
You should do a video about your favorite keywords that have not received enough love. For me "Devour" is one of my favorites and was entertained seeing "Feasting Hobbit" get printed.
weird stance here but I like cumulative upkeep for its weird non-mana stuff. Wall of Shards 1{W} Snow Creature - Wall Defender, flying Cumulative upkeep - an opponent gains 1 life [1/8] fits great with astarion 1shot shennanigans, tree of perdition, etc, and in commander, you befriend someone with it.
I actually love using hidden strings. I have a great sacrifice deck that abuses Cypher on unblockable creatures to untapped lands and Agent of Fates to force sacrifice triggers. so fun. I love recasting it with Snapcaster Mage.
It has a special place for me because the very first deck I bought was the RTR Simic Precon with Vorel. I found a playset of hidden strings in my local shop's bulk box and used them with "Elusive Krasis" who can't be blocked and has a huge butt for blocking on him. I felt super smart working it out at the time, and my friends HATED it because back then we were playing very removal light.
Day/Night is a perfect example of a mechanic that should really have stayed on Arena. For better *and* worse, they’ve decided to make those mechanics more extreme and quarantine them in Alchemy.
When you said "disappointing" and held up Benalish Hero, *I* was disappointed. I LOVE Banding. Whispering Madness is a decent Cipher card, it's just a wheel effect. It's so good in a group-hug-esque deck based around making your opponents draw for damage, or getting positives for opponents discarding, etc.
An important side note about Braid of Fire, for the Cumulative Upkeep mechanic: Back when it was printed, "mana burn" was still very much a thing. If you didn't have a reliable mana sink back then, Braid of Fire would, in effect, end up hurting you for each age counter on it! Harsh stuff.
Haha. I played MTG many years ago and have recently come back to the scene. I had no idea that mana burn was no longer a thing. How long ago did they get rid of that mechanic? I've been teaching my wife to not overtap due to mana burn.
@@andrewvitale7295 Yikes. Makes me feel old. So there are loads of kids playing MTG today who have never even heard of mana burn...Thanks for the reality check.
I'm glad someone else hated day/night too. I did think it was a decent idea, but in practice, it could be an absolute nightmare. It slowed the game down, which is supposedly exactly what the designers are trying to prevent. But, we survived!
I was an avid Bant Party player during the ZNR standard. It was a really powerful deck that could either win on turn 4 or, at the very least, swing the tempo heavily in the party's favor. It had access to ramp, counter spells, card draw, life gain, combat evasion, and board protection. The only reason why it didn't see more play was because of The Meathook meta. Sure, there were cards that phased or exiled my own creatures to dodge the hook, but the black deck usually ramped up to 4 or 5 mana way before I could find and cast the protection cards. In hindsight, a card that shut down an entire set's mechanic should never have been printed.
I unironically want Banding to make a comeback. The game's complexity has more than caught up with it, and it wasn't even that bad to begin with. Hell, it's a hard counter to Trample if nothing else.
I'll stand by my stance that Banding wasn't a bad mechanic, it was just put onto god awful cards since creatures were crazy bad at that point in the game.
Not really, blocking with multiple creatures still requires the opponent to distribute all of the damage to the blockers before doing damage to the player. Banding also hard loses to Menace since the banded cards are effectively one creature. I think the best you could hope for Banding is creatures/effects to yield significant benefits gained when you Band. Things like Scry X equal to Band size, +X/+X equal to Band size, or gains Indestructible or Protections while Banding.
Initiative? It's not even the same mechanic, it's slightly different. For the love of god i have no idea what they were thinking when they came up with this trash. 🤣
Along with what Drestlin replied, "Enter the Dungeon" can't take you into the Under city. It is a completely different dungeon that can only be entered by taking the Initiative. However, if you are in a dungeon and you take the Initiative, it will move you through your current dungeon (not start the under city, since you can't be in 2 places at the same time). It is a stupid mechanic.
Hey, I'm getting back into the game with after more than 15 year break. These are videos are awesome because it helps me learn all the good and bad mechanics that have come up. Thank you!
Personally I really liked venture into the dungeon. I like the concept in all the different benefits you can potentially get however it did boil down to pick mines of phandelver most of the time.
Man I love cumulative upkeep, especially the cards that change up the format like Wall of Shards or Braid of Fire. I also have a big love for Varchild’s War Riders, one of my favorite pet cards of all time
Coldsnap really did cumulative upkeep in a good way. It doesn't have to be all upside, but even something like Phyrexian Soulgorger that rewards you with an undercosted creature with the downside of needing to keep it fed is nice. Though honestly, from looking them up, even older designs were cool often enough, like Revered Unicorn, or things where it makes sense like Sustaining Spirit, though of course there's the chunk that were less than ideal but that's the case with most mechanics.
Personally I enjoy the "Venture into the Dungeon" mechanic, but I also kept and bring the regular-sized dungeon tokens as well as the Oversized versions you got with some of the product (Both AFR and Baldur's Gate dungeons) whenever I play at my LGS or with my friends. That said I can also understand how it'd definitely add more mud to the already murky water of returning to MtG after even just a few years away. I've never played with Day & Night, but I had a Werewolf commander deck in mind when the latest Innistrad set came out but never got to make it, and I never see Day & Night come into play in my friend circles or at my LGS, which I'm honestly glad for? It does seem tedious more than anything else, even for someone whose super excited about Werewolves.
It's surprising that Venture into the Dungeon is here, but no mention of Take the Initiative as well. While it does only deal with the one dungeon, the Undercity, it adds to the fun by not only introducing the dungeon mechanic, but also FORCING the mechanic on everyone else at the table. Having a single Initiative card in your commander deck will force you to have 4 copies of the Undercity token on hand at all times. And good luck keeping track of EVERYONE'S progress in said dungeons at once, while accounting for who actually HAS the initiative at the moment, and who could potentially gain it. And again, this is if ANY of the 4 players at the table has even a SINGLE initiative card in their deck for any reason.
Because Initiative is Venture but actually good. You’re able to progress through the dungeon, while Venture was lacklustre and wasn’t doing anything if you couldn’t venture again.
It's probably because you can take the initiative from another player ala the Monarch. It's far more interactive than Venture, Legacy players just don't want to run creatures.
@@KellyUnekis Initiative is a mechanic designed for multiplayer. And just like Monarch, it warped 1v1 play. There a difference between not running creatures and the mechanic being unbalanced for play.
@@KellyUnekisMy dude have you ever played legacy? Like the only decks that don’t run a significant amount of creatures are Lands and Doomsday. Initiative is just really strong. Who could’ve guessed that mechanics designed with 4 players in mind are busted in 1 on 1 🤔
I'm a little sad to see Venture on here, as I have been quite enamored with it since I first saw it after returning to the game last year. But I get it, cards having variable effects can increase the mental load for players who don't know the mechanic very well. I like it for the variance, it makes my turns more unpredictable as I choose between rooms and different cards have different effects on the game based on what dungeon I am in and where I am in it. I always bring enough Undercity dungeon cards for the table when I bring those decks out, and by now everyone at our table at least knows that taking the initiative for the first time means getting a land from their deck. But I am totally with you on Day/Night. Between dozens of commander decks, we have seen a single day/night card, and it just adds this annoying thing we always have to track. It took the occasional clunkiness of old werewolves and cranked it to 11, while not properly interacting with the old werewolves either.
I actually had fun with the dungeon delve mechanic. Which is more than I can say about so many other mechanics. I get it's flaws, but it's still a little weird to see it so high.
If you want to know how broken the Companion keyword was: Lurrus of the Dream-Den was banned in Vintage for power level reasons. No, not restricted. Banned. In a format with turn 1 kills.
Just wanted to take the time to rave about this video. I'm a MTGA player for years but have been trying to get into Brawl and Commander and this video finally made me build a deck that felt like it clicked rather than just a bunch of cards I threw together. Thanks so much for this!
With the Professor talking about how he dislikes these mechanics because they're so complicated and couldn't fully be printed on the card if not keyword'd, I'm really surprised that he didn't mention mutate. Also, as someone who loves mutate, I'm realizing that my love of complicated mechanics probably puts me in the smaller group of Magic players out there.
The technicalities of mutate can make it complicated, especially its interaction with certain mechanics (like DFCs) but ultimately its fairly intuitive and unless you go out of your way to break it works just fine.
I loved mutate on Arena, I’m terrified to try making a functioning commander deck out of it though, seems like a fair bit of book keeping and reminding other players constantly what my huge stack of creatures does, only to get 6 for 1’d because they’d rather kill my creature than remember what it all does 😂
Looking for the perfect way to frame and display your favorite Magic: The Gathering, Pokemon, and other standard-sized trading cards? Check out Frameamajigs here: www.kickstarter.com/projects/thingamajigs/frameamajigs?ref=f40j9e
I can't believe you didn't talk about Specialize, you forgot Historic is a format and that Arena mechanics are still Magic mechanics. It was one of they things they did to port Baldur's Gate to Arena as "Alchemy Horizons" and is absolutely awful. They decided to give the cards 5 back faces based on what color/land type you discarded, permanently transforming into that face. But it has absolutely no reason to be like that besides a poorly thought out gimmick, like 1/2s in Unhinged. It could have been transform, but it should have been the actual cards from Baldur's Gate on Arena instead of a lot of them being changed. I would rather have Backgrounds on Arena than Specialize.
Is there any way I can preorder your beautiful deck box? I missed the timing and I'd love to get one
Is this a shoot or a work?
⁹
I believe cipher was great, and it is great. It's awesome for the new Lord of the nazhul commander for Lord of the rings.
What annoys me the most with the day/night mechanic is that it works just _slightly_ differently than how the old werewolf mechanic did, so if you want to make a werewolf tribal commander deck, you have to keep track of _two_ different day/night cycles at once. Pain.
Thank you! People defending this mechanic frustrate me.
My kid just made a Arlin Kord deck and found this out. I dont know why they cant earrata the old wolves... 🙄
100% agree and I was surprised this didn't get a mention. A friend of mine has a werewolf deck and we have thought about just rule 0ing the old ones to be errated to work the same way. Even with that I can't stand day/night.
@@garykuhn1921 Because they do work ever so slightly differently. I do agree it would make things so much easier, but why would wizards do that? The cherry on top is that in addition to 2 different day/night cycles old cards ALSO always enter face-up even when it's night.
There is a third werewolf type that doesnt require that, my spaghetti wolves thanks to spaghetti mommy in the moon.
I'll never forget the time I went to to a small magic event, met the professor, and played against his modern merfolk deck when I was like, 16, almost a decade ago. It was pretty awesome, and I'm only like, 7% sure it want a hallucination
Just thought I'd remind you of this comment
Have a second reminder
Have another reminder
Braid of Fire had a downside at the time it was printed (and for a while after that) because mana burn was still a thing.
Yes, but Upwelling already existed and I remember making some R/G fun with that.
@@nickpayne8573still a downside that had to be worked around
@@nickpayne8573 yeah but forcing you to play a specific card in order to not die doesn't exactly make it not a disadvantage :p
If you were making a bunch of mana you should have been playing mana sinks or what were you even making the mana for in the first place
@@hoseaosborn7271 yes but you still *had to* have those sinks in play, preferably redundantly, or else. Still a downside
I thought you said there were only two keyword mechanics in Magic, Horsemanship and kicker?
Cumulative Upkeep is just delayed kicker. In that it kicks you in the balls with a delay.
Horsemanship and Sticker*
As an infect player, I laugh at this notion.
@@1kraniinfect is "dont block or you lose stats" horsemanship
@@1krani horsemanship, kicker, and infect
Fun fact, those dungeons aren't actually reminder tokens. Those are an actual card type that sits in your command zone when you have em active. This means that you can name dungeon with cards like Serra's Emissary, which can protect you from a very select variety of room effects.
you somehow made it even worse, good god
The card explains the card.
Now that I know this, I suddenly have an opinion about rule 309.2d.
Reasons why I'm sad the initiative didn't have a oversized dungeon card like the adventures in F ones did. Cause I wanted to have all oversized ones...
so can we name Emblem? Planes? Schemes? I'm not sure these are card types, they are in card format but not able to be picked at least it isn't listed in The Gatherer
Braid of Fire is extra interesting because it's only as good as it is now due to rules being changed over time. Specifically, the removal of the rule around "mana burn", where emptying mana out of your pool due to switching phases would cause you to take damage equal to the amount of mana lost. It was still great even with mana burn, but you needed to build your deck around either winning quick or having an unlimited source to sink that ever-increasing amount of mana into at instant-speed.
Or making a R/G Braid of Fire/ Upwelling deck, which was always a bit of fun.
@@nickpayne8573until your unwilling gets disenchanted...
hehe I remember games of MTG early on where for things like mana flare you always had a shivan dragon or dragon whelp in play to dump points into :>
Yeah Lurrus was an epic disaster
Ah I remember "mana burn". When I got back into Magic after years of not playing I was surprised to learn that wasn't a thing any more.
I'm surprised you didn't even mention the worst part about Venture, which is that they made it even more needlessly complex by adding Take the Initiative
Problem is, initiative is pretty abusable. As seen in legacy with the white weenie/D n’ T decks. Venture is just bad in all aspects aside from one card.
I removed initiative cards from my dungeon commander deck . Too much hustle for not a lot of profit
@@MFewwy my first reaction to initiative for surprisongly positive (a Monarch variant where you can choose different effects to fit your playstyle).
In practice, it's a pain in the @ss and can snowball quite easily, bcs unlike monarch you can take the initiative multiple times a turn.
I love venture, but hate initiative...
@@therealfriday13th venture is so much fun people jsut need to learn to have fun with the game and the tokens arent even that hard to find
I feel like my biggest gripe with MTG mechanics these days is that with the one and done set format (as opposed to the older 3 set format) is that some mechanics really benefitted from having those extra sets to either bulk out the card pool (and make those mechanics more viable in edh) or to just refine what's possible.
This is a huge flaw with MTG these days. Every idea has to be explored to its full extent in just one set, which means there isn't enough space for variety and texture. It happens with the stories, too: the introduction, climax, plot twist and resolution are all released at the same time, so it doesn't really feel like there's a story at all.
I agree. The trilogy era did get a bit tedious sometimes because the third set of the linked trilogy tended to be boring in a mundane trilogy (sometimes not even linked with the other 2 sets of the trilogy), & the most OP set of them all when an entire trilogy was inherently OP (LOOKING AT YOU, Fifth Dawn!!!)... but there were plenty of trilogies where the 3rd set was decent, & there's almost never been a trilogy where the second set wasn't a great support to the first. Plus there's the 2&1 era, where the linked duologies ALWAYS tended to work well & the 3rd partial-standalone set USUALLY ended the story well while being large enough to do what they did without needing another set to support them because they were linked to the first by story even though not by game rules. Personally I think duologies are the way to go except in rare occasions where a 3rd set is indeed necessary. The history of M:tG has proven it to be so time & time again.
I miss blocks. Even the 2 set blocks were better. Idk it kinda felt tht way a bit with dominaria- all will be one at least flavor wise... but I wish new sets we got 2/3 set blocks and if we're returning to places thts we're we can have 1 shot sets.
Block of two always felt like the most natural design decisions from my perspective. I've never understood the aggressive need to create rules and format structure for printing sets. Just make what feels right for the mechanics and standard and then explore a bit from there. There doesn't need to be a hard and fast rule for releasing sets and blocks and I don't understand, from a design perspective, the intense need for the design team to produce these "rules" just to break them or have them limit design. It's almost like in the video game world where game companies have reached a point of communication on development that almost feels toxic. Game design being openly broadcast to the public years before the release date has produced this list of expectations for roadmaps and bullshit that ultimately gets abandoned or forces awkward mechanics and rushed development.
The 'one and done' really has soured me on any hype for releases. Ikoria, despite it being kinda a mechanical mess, was the most fun I had not only cracking packs but playing. And it got no further love to broaden/focus the mechanics, let alone the plane itself. :/
I have a whole enter the dungeon commander deck and it’s honestly verry fun to play. As long as you just bring the reminder tokens everyone will catch on really quick on how it works and there are a lot of fun synergies
I had that mindset, but than learned that such cards must be proxied, if you didn't happen to get big cards, or even smaller token ones.
Luck's on my side, because I love me those printed biggies, but still, making a good and functional EDH deck with venture is hard.
I'd rather selesnya or aggro red.
Cumulative Upkeep is a reminder of the original purpose of the Upkeep phase and why it's named that. It was the point in the game where you would be expected to pay for the maintenance of very powerful cards like Force of Nature or Lord of the Pit. And over time that aspect of the game mostly fell away and the Upkeep phase just became the part of the game where all or most of your once per turn triggered abilities happened.
Edit: Should have said Upkeep step, not phase.
It's a great mechanic! As is Cypher. Both have amazing potential but have only been deployed with massive undue caution. Sort of the opposite of Companion, which they implemented with zero fucking caution.
Dungeons (and the Initiative, and The Ring Tempts You, which are all just dungeons by another name) flat out suck though. They cannot be redeemed. Day and night is also pretty grim, but not as bad as the dungeons imho - in theory all the info can be on the table at least.
@@japplek the Ring Tempts You is far less bad than Dungeon/Initiative mechanics since it’s more straightforward and only adds text to one creature’s textbox. My Sauron the Dark Lord EDH deck uses it and it’s definitely not to its detriment. The worst thing about it is that it’s a flavor fail
@@StJimmy765 that's fair. I think it is in the same family as the actual dungeons, but it's also by far from the worst of them. Astonishing flavour fail though.
"and the Upkeep phase just became the part of the game where all or most of your once per turn triggered abilities happened."
And even that purpose is gradually shifting to beginning of first main phase/beginning of combat/beginning of the end step which all play much better.
That's not true at all. Historically, many Cumulative Upkeep cards have been amazing, at least 10 have seen real tournament success. You can't say they designed it cautiously, they just designed it well.
Personally I think one of the worst things about the "day/night" mechanic is that older wearwolf cards were not errata'd to include the keword. Thus making the potential of wearwolf tribal decks either messy, impossible or clunky
I would have enjoyed seeing Venture into the Dungeon as a Plane chase type deal.
An extra layer that all parties can agree to add over the game if they wish.
If you want a real "Captain America in Time's Square" moment, just wait until you have to describe Mutate to a player who has never heard of it, and all the fun, wacky interactions it has with so many established mechanics.
But, it doesn't interact much with other things. It's fairly parasitic. It's unusual, sure, but hardly more difficult than Champion
I never wrapped my head around that. It just feels like Bestow but Stupid.
Yeah we were like "What happens if you destroy the creature you're trying to mutate onto?
My favourite part was how the mutate rules changes were supposed to be this clear, exhaustive, robust refit of the concept of "multiple cards or tokens becoming a single game object" that future combination mechanics could refer back to instead of increasingly confusingly reinventing the wheel, and that was why they overengineered it so much, and since then the concept has only returned for BRO's revival of Meld which to the best of my knowledge is not affected in any player-experience-streamlining way at all by those changes.
Mutate is the strange example of a mechanic that is simple to understand if you are new to MTG, but will cause migraines for people who are experienced with the rules of the game
Devil's Advocate: part of what made haunt bad has been fixed. Haunt is a much easier keyword to understand in current year because we have the terms "dies" and "exile", phrases that didn't exist withon rules text when Haunt was originally used causing very wordy and confusing textboxes. The modern printings of Haunt cards found in the Guild Kit preconstructed decks from a couple of years ago read very clearly and intuitive. However your other points still remain.
The real problem with Haunt is that the creature has an ETB trigger, but instead of just having a death trigger, it has a death trigger that requires ANOTHER death trigger before you get anything. And the creature it’s haunting doesn’t really matter other than it has to die somehow. It’s so clunky.
Back when werewolves first became a thing, I immediately thought a day/night mechanic would be cool (but i always think of bad mechanics) when it then became a thing, i immediately mourned all the werewolves that were already printed!
Agreed, day/night sounded amazing but too difficult to keep track of and the benefits werent that great. At least with the cards my pod had and tried out
Werewolves are my second favorite mythical creatures with dragons being the only thing beating them. Was getting into Magic again after a several year dry spell and went looking to make a werewolf themed commander deck and this day/night mechanic often just makes me want to hit my head repeatedly into a wall... guess it's dragons instead
It seems to be a specific breed of terrible mechanic- something im going to call the Video Game Idea. “Hey, wouldn’t it be cool if we had a modal turn state effect to represent day and night/explorable dungeons with boons and traps/cards that level up?” It’s always, always an effort to make someone else’s mechanic work in magic rules. Like a burger someone tried to blend into a smoothie.
Dark Ascension was one of the first sets I ever drafted (holy shit, that was 12ish years ago).
First pack I opened had a foil Huntmaster of the Fells.
I grabbed it because it looked cool and seemed like a good card.
That led into building a RG werewolf deck, which ended up netting me 1st place.
It was pretty disappointing when they kinda reworked the day/night werewolf transform mechanic, which kinda wrecked the old cards.
I’ve thought about eventually building an edh deck around Huntmaster, at least for nostalgia’s sake
I recently built a cube with the theme of having a representative of each named mechanic, and it really makes you appreciate just how troublesome some mechanics are, or just plain misguided. But you haven't lived until you see a Charge Across The Araba for lethal
I want Gate-sweep.
Hey, do you list of that cube anywhere online? I am now really curious.
ANTE ANTE ANTE
What did you do for ripple?
@@Ninjamanhammer thrumming stone, and 5 garbage elementals
I like to think that the disturb cards from Crimson Vow are the spiritual successor to haunt. Creature spirits that die and return haunting a creature as a form of enchantment.
Yeah, definitely a similar flavor. I like that haunt was more flavorfully bad for the opponent whereas disturb was flavorfully more beneficial to you.
I think haunt could def make a comeback if they leaned heavily into the negative for the opponent aspect of it. IMO def not one of the worst mechanics
@@mattm7798 nah haunt was just bad, needing the haunted creature to die to actually trigger the effect just made it too clunky. Disturb is the fixed, superior version of it, and has as many bad effects as good ones (Sinner's Judgement in particular being pretty much the nastiest curse ever printed).
Disturbed is a funny way of spelling Cypher.
@@ZakanaHachihaCBC it really isn't, though.
@@MetalHev It is.
Cypher is more Haunt then Disturb.
I just came back to MTG in the last few weeks, joining in the LOTR set for drafting. I noticed The Ring mechanic is quite wordy and that it's not the first time I heard that MTG was doing IP crossovers. It's definitely interesting for me to hear the criticism that these crossovers are exactly that - wordy - as well as sometimes game-breaking, sometimes taking you out of the game (as with the D&D tie-in), and making the game not feel like Magic.
At least the LOTR set had "The Ring Tempts You" absolutely everywhere all over it, so if you drafted/played the set for any length of time you'd know the 4 'stages' of the Ring pretty quick. In the grand scheme of things the things the ring does are basically keyworded anyway:
1) Ringbearer is legendary and can't be blocked by creatures with greater power (Legendary and Skulk)
2) When ringbearer attacks, draw a card and discard a card (Loot)
3) If the ringbearer is blocked, the blocking player sacrifices it at the end of combat (Deathtouch, sorta)
4) When the ringbearer deals damage to a player, each opponent loses 3 life. (Not keyworded but also really comprehensible)
Long term though, I'm pretty sure we won't have to remember much about it as LTR released as direct-to-Modern and every card with Tempt on it seems to have failed to make the cut into 60-card Modern or earlier. For EDH it's possible to build, but with how Tempt works it's likely that you either build a LOT of it or none at all.
They brought back cumulative upkeep in Coldsnap because that set was supposed to be the "long lost 3d set in the Ice Age block." and cumulative upkeep first appeared and featured heavily in Ice Age.
It was featured on the original elder dragons in antiquities just wasnt named yet afaik.
still, lorewise or not, could had designed better.
@@egoalter1276 Elder Dragons were not in Antiquities but in Legends, and they didn't feature cumulative upkeep whatsoever (just a "normal" kind of upkeep).
@@BaalBlade Given that we saw they could make the "upkeep cost" anything, including _gaining_ mana, I can't help but think there's some kind of "fix" for Cumulative Upkeep. Though this would require deviating from the intended spirit of the keyword.
@@Bluecho4 At the time of Coldsnap's printing, mana burn was a thing, so if you couldn't spend the mana during Upkeep, you would either have to sacrifice it, or take a lot of damage
The case of Braid of Fire is very interesting. Since ColdSnap is from 2009, and Mana Burn (mana unspent during a phase deals 1 damage to you, for each mana unspent) was removed on 2010. There was a frame of time where Braid of Fire's Cumulative upkeep was a very high risk one, since if you didnt have and instant in hand, or a source to spend that mana in your upkeep, this enchantment was gonna star killing you on your upkeeps (and very fast mind you).
Since the remove of the Mana Burn mechanic, yes, Braid of fire has no risk whatsoever and is just extra mana on your upkeep.
do you lose the mana if you don't use it during your upkeep phase or does it stay until your main phase under current rules?
@@Shishkebarbarian You do lose it. Otherwise it would be ran everywhere you can jam mana rocks into, it costs as much. As is, if you don't have a sink or an Omnath, you're pretty much just limited to instants or taps. Next Omnath deck I make - I'm jamming four of these in. I had forgotten about it.
At the time you lost mana EOT, not at the end of each phase, so you still had it throughout your entire turn - including your main phases.
@@darebrained
Are you sure about that? Granted, my only exposure to Magic pre-2017 was in the Microprose Shandalar game, but I swear mana-burn and losing mana happened between phases as well.
@@darebrained well, maybe at some point sure. But this moment in time was relevant during 2009 Magic rules. So I went to the wiki achive and read the rules of that time abiut mana burn.
The next is from the wiki itself:
"From the Comprehensive Rules (May 1, 2009-Alara Reborn)
300. General (Obsolete)
300.3. When a phase ends (but not a step), any unused mana left in a player's mana pool is lost. That player loses 1 life for each one mana lost this way. This is called mana burn. Mana burn is loss of life, not damage, so it can't be prevented or altered by effects that affect damage. This game action doesn't use the stack. (See rule 406, "Mana Abilities.")"
Not trying to be a d**k about it, just sharing my finds about mana burn in 2009.
I wish companion made you exile a card from your hand in order to cast them, so it wasn’t necessarily a free card. I actually think the mechanic is really cool, and wish it hadn’t earned itself such a bad rep almost immediately
I’ll also say I’m surprised Cleave didn’t get a mention lol
I'd swap 1 and 2. Day/night is extremely annoying but it didn't break every format, even vintage. Companion was a worse mistake. It may not be as annoying to have in your game, but the damage it did on almost every format was higher than really any one card or mechanic ever printed.
With companion you can still play as usual. You just have an advantage at an insignificant cost, and both sides can pick their advantage by picking a companion. Other card games have similar things built in into their systems, kind of like classes in Hearthstone.
Day/night however introduces an extra element BOTH players have to track for the whole game. And thats +1 thing to keep track of per card.
Companion was so bad it got a card banned from Vintage out of power lever concerns for the first time because restricting a companion does nothing. Of course it’s the worse of the two
I don't think day/night would have been in my top 5 at all, but I never considered how annoying it would be in a multiplayer game.
I think cipher has so much potential, putting it on something that inherently pushes forward a strategy would make for a really interesting idea, like a burn spell, so you could clear out their blocker and then get another burn spell to use against their face, just hope it sees some support at some point
Kinda a pity the Prof didn't showcase/mention Trait Doctoring when discussing Cipher - even compared to the rest of cipherable cards that one is a stinker...
I think he mentioned it in the video already - the problem with Cipher is that there's very little room to make a balanced card with it? You either gonna end up with something that's terribly underpowered and won't see play, or absolute buster that's gonna warp the format
It could be made into diet version, where you can cast it once after you attack with a creature? That could be a fun idea, tbh?
Cipher's probably my favorite mechanic. I've build so many decks around Hidden Strings and how broken 4 mana untap 4 permanents is with ramp, proliferate, alt win cons etc.
Stolen Identity is really fun too if you don't mind keeping track of clone tokens and which one is who. I know Guild keywords are banned from showing up again outside their block but I wouldn't mind if they made some new Rav cards 'playing the hits' featuring the best mechanic added from each Guild.
yeah cipher was a fun keyword in my opinion with some fun spells
I have a fun Cipher deck using blue flying snd unstoppable cards but I have to stress it's a fun deck always
Listening to MaRo's "Drive to Work" original episode on Innistrad is fascinating, cause originally Day/Night WAS the way the mechanic worked, but they scrapped it for OG innistrad for all the reasons you outlined here. I'm not caught up so I don't know why they thought it was a good idea to implement it again when they knew why it was bad. :/
Surprised that you didn't mention the Luris is the first card to get a ban in vintage in decades
He got unbanned after the companion rework though.
Mmm could’ve been a dishonorable mention after mentioning elk #1
Say what you want but my Lurrus with cheap creatures and enchantments puts in work on Arena
Even with the rework he's still popular because you can use your Black Lotus to bring him out and use him to bring back your Black Lotus every turn.
@@joebaumgart1146 yes, but before the rework you could use 6 mana t1 with him. 3 mana to cast him, immediately bring back black lotus and have another 3 mana. Even with the tax it's too strong but without the 3 mana tax it was Insanity.
I like how you explained cumulative upkeep, then commented on braid of fire being an upside cost when in fact it was NOT when released. Cold snap was released in 2006, when mana burn was still in magic. So playing braid of fire meant putting yourself on a clock if you failed to spend all your mana during your upkeep, which got harder and harder to do as the game progressed.
Mana burn was later removed prior to the release of alara reborn in 2009, meaning THEN braid of fire became all upside.
I think it was still optional, you could choose not to add the mana and sacrifice braid
As someone who runs a Kros EDH deck, Sheltering Ancient is my best friend. A 2-mana 5/5 with trample, with a CU of "put a +1/+1 counter on target creature an opponent controls". You goad so many creatures, it's a thing of beauty.
@@danhendricks5896 The idea with Braid was that you'd use it to pay *other* cumulative mana costs. So it was a support card when it was released that turned into pure upside when mana burn was removed
Honestly, I really dig this card design - here's so much of a good thing it will kill you unless you manage to somehow get rid of it.
@@kindlingkingcumalitave upkeep is an optional cost, but it'd be cool if you had to run removal for your own enchantment, or even more cards with additional costs (the additional cost being getting rid of your enchantment)
I can't believe mutate wasn't on this list in a very high position. Mutate is an utter nightmare rules wise and there are some very weird and niche interactions that are completely bonkers and will break your brain. Mutate is the epitome of "reading the card doesn't explain the card"
probably because it doesn't see much play, I would guess
I’m baffled as well. Ok I get not liking dungeons, but if you have the dungeon token, it’s reasonably self-explanatory.
With mutate … it’s just a judge call waiting to happen.
It's always fun seeing a differing pov that you can agree with completely. I've found it easier to think of it as "Target another non-Human you control as you cast this spell. Choose this creature or the target, the chosen creature gains all abilities of the unchosen card", and because it's kind of a creature-based bestow it's one of my favorite mechanics idea-wise.
I'm very glad not to see my favourite mechanic of all time on this list :P
mutate cards are explained by reading the cards.
I actually experienced that Acelerak loop in a game once. The opponent got a Rooftop Storm into play, and well.
I love this in my Zombie tribal Commander deck. It's not a combo deck, and there's no tutors, but if it happens I'm always tickled.
I just got this exact combo to pop the other day, felt so good
I think Venture could have an in-universe flavor if they used it alongside Zendikar. The setting built around adventuring into lost ruins and depths like a D&D game.
but zendikar is good, why ruin it?
Remember when they introduced Venture there was talk about potentially creating additional dungeons one day. Which would be really cool in a game that wasn't Magic the Gathering
@@giuseppevgiordanoMaybe it is me being a MTGA player that also loves D&D, but I don't get why those dungeon cards are so bad. I get the points on the video, but can't they be solved by bringing up them on a laptop or phone if you don't have them in person? The set itself was lots of fun, especially in drafts. Rolling that Nat 20 always was a blast, even if rolled against you
@@ThePizzaMan48 think like this, you can like it or not, but it doesn't interact with the whole rest of the game, even if you like it you won't be happy for a long time because it's something separated and a lot of times underwhelming
@@giuseppevgiordano I played with it a lot in limited during the entire time it was in standard and still enjoy it. The satisfaction of actually getting a draft that can complete a dungeon and watching as you grind out value is a blast!
I think I enjoyed Venturing the Dungeon more than Day/Night tracking as it’s easier to track. I think it can still be reskin to Zendikar or Ravnica of some adventure flavor
Surprised you didn't mention the new "The ring tempts you" mechanic, as I feel that's much more complicated than dungeons, needing a back side of an entire rules card just to explain how the front side works.
I expect it didn't make the list because it remains to be seen if any of those cards see play in any format besides LTR limited. But if they do, I can definitely see it making a future version of this list for the same reason "venture into the dungeon" made it on.
@@laboratorymaniac7324there are definitely ones that gonna see play. The whole set has it stapled on cards it doesn't even make sense on. And it's pretty strong I would say having a creature draw and discard everytime you connect. 🤔
the ring mechanic isn't even comparably complex. it's simple af. it's basically a level up ability. I also think it's pretty good, fun and easy to keep track of.
@@laboratorymaniac7324 yet
Not really much more complex then sagas though.
I'd like to also point out that Haunt was also put on instant and sorcery cards, such as Cry Of Contrition. And thus, worked slightly differently to the creatures that had Haunt on them. So the mechanic actually has two different reminder texts. SO INTUITIVE.
Whats the difference i never noticed that i always played Haunt as an aristocrats strategy though where i KNEW the creature would die
@@christophercombs7561 So a spell with Haunt reads: (When this spell card is put into a graveyard after resolving, exile it haunting target creature.)
It's different to a creature with Haunt, which reads: (When this creature dies, exile it haunting target creature.)
Also seeing the rules text of a spell laid out with haunt is weird. You hae the effect of the spell, then the Haunt reminder text in the middle, then the haunt trigger n effect at the bottom. It's weirdest with Seize The Soul where the word Haunt is just floating in the middle of two hefty walls of text.
@@MichaelBrandon-cp8jqseems like it would've been better if it just said "when this is sent to the graveyard". I really like that the card does 2 different things when being played vs when it's haunting but it is a lot of text
@@juliandacosta6841 Suffice to say it's not a very intuitive mechanic. Which is a shame, I actually kinda like it.
@@juliandacosta6841 "When sent to the GY" makes it trigger off of non-fielded effects, eg handrips, mills, or even returning it from Exile to GY somehow
While not specifically a keyword, I do really miss tribal, as it allowed you to interact with more card types than just Creatures when you build your deck
Indeed!!!
They added it back, which is nice
Surprised with Enter the Dungeon being on here, you didn't at least add Initiative in to that slot or give it it's own, since it has similar issues and bent Legacy in half for a while.
People conflate the two mechanics together despite that they're different. It's an easy mistake to make.
@@TeamSprocket to me this is the biggest problem. Its never a fun time at a game when someone plays a card and the explanation is "its ___ except kinda not."
i think the fact that they're 2 different mechanics was a terrible decision. i was holding out hope that they would continue the Venture mechanic and just add new dungeons to BG. i really despise modern magic sometimes. half the sets of the last 2yrs and mind numbingly annoying to play.
Imo, initiative is far worse than enter because it forces opponents to also make dungeoneering choices and also triggers at inconvenient, missable times
It combines the persistence of monarchy/daynight with the complexity of dungeons, and I despise it
@@ScornfulEg0tistNo, it doesn't. The initiative triggers only trigger one of two times and none of them miss timing at all. Take the initiative works exactly like venture to the dungeon. So every time you cast the card that says take the initiative it causes a dungeon venture trigger. Whenever you do combat damage to someone, you take the initiative and it causes a dungeon trigger. During your upkeep you get a dungeon trigger. Those are the only three situations are which you get those triggers. So unless you're finding out ways to flash in, take the initiative creatures or attacking on someone else's turn or taking your upkeep on someone else's turn, which three things I just mentioned I don't even think it's possible then I'm pretty sure you're not going to miss a trigger.
The only issue that those two mechanics have is that the rules text for venture into the dungeon and take the initiative exists on different cards. And I half agree about it. Making people make dungeonering decisions but only because that person wouldn't have the reminder cards because their dick wasn't designed with dungeon diving in mind.
Hidden strings was the best cipher card.
Invisible stalker+hidden strings was so fun.
Whispering madness + stalker notionthief + lab maniac was the perfect 4 card combo.
I kind of want to build a Dauthi Voidwalker mill deck with paranoid delusions, but I don't think it will be fast enough, especially compared to normal mill.
Venturing into the dungeon is the most fun keyword. The flexibility.
I really like mechanics that make creatures modular, like cipher, mutate, ability counters, auras, etc. But sadly, the speed and composition of the game makes it so most of those mechanics aren't quick and simple enough to be viable.
The simic signpost uncommon with two channel abilties from kamigawa neon dynasty has such a special place in my heart haha
11:21 I like the “Enter the Dungeon” feature. Like the event card variant, that came with the commander decks of March of the Machines, it adds a little change up to the game.
I also had no problem understanding the dungeons and I am no expert. I’ve been playing on and off with my ancient decks and a few more modern decks and none of mine have a turn three win nor are they confusing like the video commander games of players who have these complex combos that infinitively go on and on, leaving you to wonder if they are cheating.
if feel like major part of the issue was in paper magic
I find Day/Night bad even if you have it tracked automatically. I want to play with werewolves but having absolutely zero control over whether they are werewolves on my turn makes that a pain.
God I love Venture into the Dungeon. Some of my favorite commander decks I’ve played have been built around it.
Yeah the Prof's complaints about it don't really hold up. So what if you have to bring a token with you? You built your deck to use the mechanic, so it's not like it's you're surprised when the ability triggers...
I made a B/W Venture deck in Historic, and I've had people concede to me on the spot when I cast a Cloister Gargoyle. People really hate Venture, but I really love it.
@@SamTebbs33 I can see where he comes from, especially in a new player aspect. It’s a mechanic that can take some time to wrap your head around. He makes a lot of valid points, but at the end of the day magic is a game about playing with the cards you enjoy playing, and I love me some venturing cards.
ikr? AFR was the set that got me into Magic and I immediately really liked the dungeons - they're like tiny board games that give me goodies, isn't that fun? Though I can see how tiresome it would become if mechanics that "require" tokens were more common in non-rotating formats. Imagine a deck with Venture into the Dungeon, Take the Initiative, Daybound/Nightbound, Open an Attraction, Monarch, etc. all at the same time. lol
@@Circl3s tbh that’s sounds like a nightmare deck I want to pilot 😂
Not sure if the title is misspelled on purpose but wanted to bring it to your attention! Excited to watch!
"Venturing into the dungeon" is my new euphamism for going to the bathroom.
Wort mechanics. Halo elites rejoice!
WORTWORTWORT!
rep0rting f0r w0rt w0rt w0rt
Wortwort? Arhg! RAAAAAA *spams sticky grenades*
...nobody else was thinking the Boggart Auntie/ Raidmother? Philistines...
@@christopherb501no because she sucks
Prof forgot that by adding the 3 to put companions in hand actually gave them another form of utility. It turned any companion into pitch fodder for either the MH1 Force cycle and MH2 pitch elemental cycle.
Thanks for the tip !! 😁
I'm surprised the LTR set didn't have any "party" card in it. Seems like a missed opportunity to expand the mechanic since the characters travelled in a party.
Also, I personally love the dungeon delve mechanic personally, especially my WBUR version that includes Isshin and Hama Pashar so I can go through 2 levels of the dungeon off of one attack and double the ability of each dungeon.
They have pseudo-party with cards that care about having an elf and a dwarf.
The dungeon mechanic is one of my favorites. I have all the tokens and even bought goblin miniatures perfectly sized to mark the progress for everyone.
One of my friends has a similar negative take on the mechanic as he usually plays theft decks (his favorite being Tergrid) and thus never feels satisfied until every permanent is under his control. So it is funny when he stares at the one thing he can't take. 😂
Imagine stealing someone's whole entire dungeon while they're still in it lol!!! XD
I even printed oversized dungeons for the whole table to see what I'm doing, lol
@@EronZalez If you buy an AFR Bundle "Fat Pack" Three oversized dungeons come in them👍👍👍
Party was a fun idea. I really hope they flesh it out more. Especially with some better pay offs and maybe a few more cards like Burakos who counts as each party member. Maybe dual classed cards where two of the types needed are on a card. Can be a good way to flesh it out.
There are cards that count as each party member already, they just need a tiny bit more love: Changelings! They fit into any tribal deck, which is partially why the cards themselves may not be the most powerful, but you can certainly do a lot with them.
@@johnbuscher Yeah I run a tribal tribal commander deck that’s filled with changelings and tribal lords. I actually have some party cards in there. I just want more flavorful options of actual Wizards, Rogues, Warriors, and Clerics. In DnD there’s multiclassing so having a warrior cleric or wizard rogue fits that idea.
Damn, I was thinking about Cipher when the video started and I'm sad to see it on the list lol... I love Call of the Nightwing in my Captain N'Ghathrod horror tribal deck
Also, my biggest gripe with Day/Night is that they didn't errata old werewolves to work with the new system. Things like Moonmist just don't work with new werewolves because those werewolves are locked to their human side during the day. Simple erratas like "transform all humans, and if it's day, it becomes night" would be super easy to do. Sure, it would transform some nonhumans from the newer set as well, but I'd accept that in order for the card to work with new werewolves. The non cross compatibility between sets is what irritates me the most because I was like "finally! A return to Innistrad where they're focusing on werewolves!" I was then very disappointed because the old werewolf tech doesn't really work with the new werewolves and vise versa.
Not to mention if you have sleeved cards. I played a guy once, who was sooo excited to break in his new r/g werewolf commander deck when Midnight Hunt came out. 2 hours later, he was still taking each wolf out of the sleeve, turning it over, putting it back and he looked completely exhausted.
"The Ring Tempts You" could be lumped in with the "Venture into the Dungeon" mechanic as well as "Take the Initiative".
it's definitely clunky and impossible to reprint, but at least they made it much simpler.
@darkstar949 it's a token with a die on it. Wouldn't exactly call that "tedious" or "book keeping". Lol
@@sallad2645 people are just lazy
@@sallad2645 Its still incredibly clunky. Mechanics like this make Magic feel less like a cardgame and more like a board game.
I can’t express how much I love the haunt mechanic now that you brought it to my attention. I wish we got more.
It would have benefited from some evolution. The 'do X when haunted creature dies' thing wasn't all it was capable. It could have acted as a pseudo-aura which I think would have a lot more design space and could have worked similar to disturb.
@VolvoxSocks now if WotC could find a nice middle ground between Haunt and Disturb, we might have a great keyword.
I believe the head designers of both AFR and Baldur’s Gate have talked about considering party. The mechanics requires a lot of support to make work within the limited environment and party creatures aren’t exhaustive of the classes you’d expect in a D&D party anyway to the flavour isn’t necessarily great. Might be misremembering, it would be on the relevant drive to work episodes.
but they introduced it in a set with almost no party card
@@Uryendel Depends what your metric is. Party was a big part of ZNR’s limited environment. A huge proportion of the creatures count towards party size and there are cards that call out party at common and up. From the limited perspective the set if full of party cards. I get that it doesn’t look like that if the standard is constructed-level party cards, by that measure I agree there aren’t many of them. My point was more the designers felt that putting party in either AFR or CLB would have required warping the limited environment in the same way that ZNR’s was. They have talked about why party wasn’t in those sets, it’s just that they talked about it in pretty obscure places.
Not quite. The people working on AFR were asked not to make party effects that overshadowed Zendikar party mechanics, where it originated, as both were in standard at the same time. The AFR folk decided that rather than just making a weak version of it, they wouldn't use it at all.
@@Ahayzo That's it, I knew I was fudging the details. Thanks for clarifying
@@jamesshearer9705 I mostly just remember it because it's one of those situations where I can't help but think about how bad of a reason I think it is, but simultaneously totally get it lol
I love Cumulative Upkeep. It gives you something strong for a LIMITED time, so you gotta time it right and that is and was fair.
Whether the effects were not strong enough is not the CU's problem - Brand of Ill Omen or Ancestral Knowledge were pretty good cards and Dreams of the Dead was freaking AWESOME with a haste or strong tap ability.
yeah, exactly as intended, strong effect for limited time.
There's a lot of design space to explore with CU, too. Braids of Fire and Wall of Shards show how non-standard upkeep costs can be interesting.
Fun fact: Braid of Fire initially could be a drawback as well. Mana is removed from your mana pool between phases, so you have to spend it during your upkeep. But Braid of Fire was printed in a time when mana burn existed, and you took damage for unspent mana. So if you didn't have a mana sink, or it got removed, you could be taking tons of damage.
Braid of Fire should really have Mana Burn errata'd directly onto the card, applying only to the Upkeep Step.
I think a lot about the inverse: mechanics that really SHOULD be keywords, because they're very common these days but very wordy. 'Loot' and 'Rummage' are basically community keywords that most players wind up knowing. 'Flicker' too, though they'd have to clarify when, exactly, you return it: the original Flicker card was 'immediately after', but the popular Flickerwisp is 'at the beginning of the next end step. One of the wordiest mechanics that I see a lot is: 'Look at the top cards of your library. You may , then put the remaining cards in '. The fact that there's several variables here makes me hesitate to think of a single overarching mechanic but there should be one for the most /common/ variant, which is 'put that card in your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library'. Scryfall alludes to this as an impulse effect so let's pretend 'impulse' is the keyword here - i.e. instead of, say, Overgrown Pest's: "Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal a land or double-faced card from among them and put that card into your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order.", it'd be something like 'Impulse 5 for a land or double-faced card'.
Impulse to my understanding is the Red Exile Draw mechanic, isn't it? Exile cards from the top of your library, you can play them this turn?
Very nice take
There's definitely a downside to having too many keywords. In general, I think they should be used very sparingly. Complexity creep is a very real consideration, and if a game has too many keywords it begins to introduce playability and accessibility problems.
I was sure Mutate would appear in this list. It’s not only clunky, but also excessively convoluted.
As a player with a mutate edh deck I find this comment highly offensive
I Love Mutate...but you are right. But hey, everytime i play one of my Mutate Decks (Nethroi or Otrimi) it feels a little bit like playing the Digimon TCG...wich none of my Group besides me play...
It's only truly clunky if you have a detailed understanding of MtG rules. If, like me, you just _kinda_ understand them, it's fine. Probably.
@@PantomimeHorse the rule of cool/ rule of kinda correct is the only one you need!
Agreed! Between Mutate and Companion, Ikoria is my least favorite set, as far as sets I've played go. (I started with Throne of Eldraine)
About a year ago I played Magic for the first time since Scars of Mirrodin.
Other player was doing all types of enter the dungeon stuff, and some other keyword that made no sense. I had no idea what was happening or how it worked and haven't played again since.
The Dungeon cards are not reminder tokens, they have their own type. They are not optional, you have to have them with you if you want to play a dungeon and you have to place them in your command zone.
It's something slightly different from the typical MTG experience but me and everyone in my usual party actually enjoy this mechanic a lot.
Otherwise great video, agreed with the rest.
I've always thought that infect is one of the worst mechanics out there. As Maro has often said, poison's biggest problem is that it's essentially just a second life total - just a meaningless number that doesn't do anything until it hits the threshold where you lose. Infect not only fails to solve or even address that problem at all, it exacerbates it by bringing poison and life even closer together, making the only difference between them being the number that you're counting to. It makes the whole thing feel completely pointless, and I've always felt that a bad mechanic that at least changes some things is better than one that simply has no reason to exist.
What I’m getting here is that prof hates fun. I had an entire deck built around venturing into the dungeon and it was always a great time.
I personally love the Dungeon Mechanic and Initiative, I used to have an issue with non-intractable objects like emblems when they first debuted but got over it. However, if like me, you are a dungeon/initiative player, it's your responsibility to bring enough dungeons/initiatives/tokens or proxies of them so that you and everyone you are playing with can track or see what needs to be seen.
Same, I actually play a party/dungeon deck so this video was basically a personal attack to me, no problem though I actually love this channel!
My friend and I invented a format. In our format emblems are able to be interacted with.
Agreed, on all points.
Very much agree. I've been a Sefris main ever since the AFR pre-cons, and I've found that as long as you have the tokens available to read and share out, and track meticulously and use it as a focus point of the deck it isn't so bad. Makes a great value engine, has late game pay offs and combos, many of which are enough to win without being infinite like the known acerak/rooftop. I think it should've been flavored generically or as a magic IP (I agree with Universes Beyond problems) and that Venture/Initiative should've been the same mechanic, one or the other changed to match the other (I think Initiative should've just been Venture with an extra dungeon, and dismiss the upkeep/monarch effect.) and I think that might've helped make the mechanic so much more acceptable. I love Prof and the content, but I think Dungeons are a Player problem and deck building problem more than a mechanics problem.
As a were-wolf lover though... Day/Night is awful... its very nice, and great on automated. but if you lose track. Yikes. Not a fan.
Cumulative upkeep is a mechanic I absolutely hated when it came out in Ice Age, but as I played the game longer, I started to understand it better. It’s pretty tactical and that is what I like about it 🤷♂️ Anyway, great video prof, thanks for making this one.
I dislike The Ring Tempts You for exactly the same reasons as you said for Venture Into The Dungeon. Very well-put as always. Though I disagree a bit on Day/Night because a house rule of "if you forgot, it's day" solves most of its problems.
I really like the venture into the dungeon mechanic. Anyone playing with it will have their dungeon emblems with them the same as someone who's playing a tokens deck will have their tokens or some facsimile of them. And Sithis is played a good amount in Commander, she's an awfully overpowered reanimator who can see turn three angel of ruin or other esper powerhouses(I have a grudge against angel of ruin).
Here, here! My main deck I'm working on is a custom D'n'D deck built specifically around the Venture, dice rolling, and Dragons concepts. I have a handful of other "characters" built into the deck as well, like Ellywick, Lolth, Zariel, and such. Sure I also have Prosper and Vrondiss decks, but those are precons, and as a DM I wanted to build a deck from a DM's perspective. So playing the deck in a pod, my "opponents" basically become my adventuring party, and the EDH game becomes like an actual D'n'D session! 😁 I haven't yet been able to sit down with it in an active game yet, but in solo testing it seems to work mechanic-wise fairly well. I've followed many of the tried-and-true guidelines for building Commander decks: I've got a good balance of lands and mana rocks, some huge Dragons but also a fair number of smaller creatures I can get out early, good spell base with a couple board wipes and win-cons in there... I can shuffle as many times I want and still get a pretty decent opening 7 each time. It makes a lot of treasures, has some pretty decent positive table interaction... If I get the chance to actually play the thing live I'm hoping for good outcomes.
yeah ngl, the whining about "reading the card doesn't explain the card" I see with the dungeons feels really unfair. If you're in a situation where they're relevant but don't know at all what the dungeons are it's 99.9% a problem the person playing the dungeon cards created. Limited as the dungeons in packs, and if you're bringing q deck with dungeons, you should have either physical or digital references for the dungeons easily accessible. If you don't then that's your fault not the mechanic, just like if you played a counters deck with no dice or other marker for counters
@@gwenyurick9663 I agree completely. Plenty of things require additional resources to track, and adding things like this just makes more ways to play our favorite game! I even have an attractions deck from Unfinity that works really well and is mechanically sound.
Totally agree my main deck is focused on the dungeon mechanic, as with tokens is your responsibility to keep track of it and bring the necessary dungeon cards
seconding this. I have a deck that happens to have one venture into the dungeon card (the only deck i have that has that) and I just keep that token in the deckbox. It’s pretty simple to use a d6 to track on there, and most people have dice on hand already anyway
Hey, I freaking love cipher cards. They're brutal and make for a unique method of voltron deck that works even better in a sort of spell slinger deck with magecraft abilities. I use them mainly with Wrexial, but they also work in decks with unblockables like ninjas.
i love venture into the dungeon. it is completely stupd needing additional cards and reading up on it multiple times a match just for everyone to be on the same page though, but there are a lot of magic cards that do that.. :D
The mechanic I thought was the most tedious would be the arena exclusive Specialize mechanic, which has the power of making every card containing it 6 sided. One base version, then adding the cost of specifically discarding a colored spell or land to use one of the 5 variants.
I just dislike that when I deck build commander, searching for an ability might end up with specialize popping up even though the card pool would make it practically impossible for that ability to work with the colors I have
There is no Specialize in MTG...
If we included alchemy, half of the list would be alchemy.
@@michaelsimmons8613whether it's a Jedi trick or Ju Dee reference, I'm with you brother, there is no Specialize in MTG 😂
Alchemy mechanics aren’t actual Magic mechanics.
The reasons Party wasn't brought back was pretty explicitly stated. It required they focus too much of the set on those 4 creatures types for the draft to work, and they would have to prioritize that over making cool and flavorful D&D cards. They felt the larger priority was making a set that hit a lot of the D&D references players wanted, so thats what they went with. MaRo has written articles and done podcasts talking about this and everything.
Shhhhhhh, if you point that out he just sounds like a whiner.
Considering almost every D&D creature could have been given one of those four creature types in addition to their other types... I call bullshit.
It's almost like having 1 set blocks is inherently bad in terms of gameplay design.
@@redfiveish That is quite a leap from this considering they were a year apart anyway. Even if they were 3 set blocks it wouldn't have changed this fact. The problem wasn't that it wouldn't have enough support in standard. It was that it wouldn't have enough support in draft.
@@OtakuNoShitpost they could have and it only would have meant having way fewer of all of the uniqe monsters to D&D, not referencing a bunch of other classes people love, and limiting which pre existing characters can appear to mostly ones who are of those classes. A trade I doubt most D&D fans would make.
Ringbearer is pretty bad too. I'm surprised it didn't make it into this video
actually, I remember seeing in a design article that the reason they didn't put party in the dnd sets was because the classes didn't match up. they were thinking of doing megaparty, which is just the number of creature types that are on seperate creatures. the explanation was in "doing baldurs gate, part 1"
You should do a video about your favorite keywords that have not received enough love. For me "Devour" is one of my favorites and was entertained seeing "Feasting Hobbit" get printed.
Madness cost
I would love to see new cards with those two mechanics, those and Threshold.
weird stance here but I like cumulative upkeep for its weird non-mana stuff.
Wall of Shards 1{W}
Snow Creature - Wall
Defender, flying
Cumulative upkeep - an opponent gains 1 life
[1/8]
fits great with astarion 1shot shennanigans, tree of perdition, etc, and in commander, you befriend someone with it.
I actually love using hidden strings. I have a great sacrifice deck that abuses Cypher on unblockable creatures to untapped lands and Agent of Fates to force sacrifice triggers. so fun. I love recasting it with Snapcaster Mage.
I used to have a white/blue deck back at the times of first Theros, focuses on Heroic, and hidden strings were such a staple there :D
It has a special place for me because the very first deck I bought was the RTR Simic Precon with Vorel. I found a playset of hidden strings in my local shop's bulk box and used them with "Elusive Krasis" who can't be blocked and has a huge butt for blocking on him.
I felt super smart working it out at the time, and my friends HATED it because back then we were playing very removal light.
Everything about Acererak is actually a huge flavour win if you know what Tomb of Horrors was really like.
A giant middle finger from the designer to the players, that’s what it was.
You have a point.
Day/Night is a perfect example of a mechanic that should really have stayed on Arena. For better *and* worse, they’ve decided to make those mechanics more extreme and quarantine them in Alchemy.
When you said "disappointing" and held up Benalish Hero, *I* was disappointed. I LOVE Banding. Whispering Madness is a decent Cipher card, it's just a wheel effect. It's so good in a group-hug-esque deck based around making your opponents draw for damage, or getting positives for opponents discarding, etc.
I miss Banding, too.
An important side note about Braid of Fire, for the Cumulative Upkeep mechanic: Back when it was printed, "mana burn" was still very much a thing. If you didn't have a reliable mana sink back then, Braid of Fire would, in effect, end up hurting you for each age counter on it! Harsh stuff.
Haha. I played MTG many years ago and have recently come back to the scene. I had no idea that mana burn was no longer a thing. How long ago did they get rid of that mechanic? I've been teaching my wife to not overtap due to mana burn.
@@vvhitevvabbit6479they got rid of it in 2009
@@andrewvitale7295 Yikes. Makes me feel old. So there are loads of kids playing MTG today who have never even heard of mana burn...Thanks for the reality check.
Couldn't you just not pay and not get burned?
@@hugofontes5708 True, to a point. You can choose not to pay the Cumulative Upkeep, and not add the mana -- but you'd have to sacrifice it.
I'm glad someone else hated day/night too. I did think it was a decent idea, but in practice, it could be an absolute nightmare. It slowed the game down, which is supposedly exactly what the designers are trying to prevent. But, we survived!
I was an avid Bant Party player during the ZNR standard. It was a really powerful deck that could either win on turn 4 or, at the very least, swing the tempo heavily in the party's favor. It had access to ramp, counter spells, card draw, life gain, combat evasion, and board protection. The only reason why it didn't see more play was because of The Meathook meta. Sure, there were cards that phased or exiled my own creatures to dodge the hook, but the black deck usually ramped up to 4 or 5 mana way before I could find and cast the protection cards. In hindsight, a card that shut down an entire set's mechanic should never have been printed.
I LOVED venturing into the dungeon! It was the first paper deck I ever built. Totally understand the hate though, lol
I disliked it power level wise but then Bauldur’s Gate came out with Initiative which has become my favourite mechanic ;)
i have every dungeon so its not very hard to keep track of and that's why I love venture into dungeon
I unironically want Banding to make a comeback. The game's complexity has more than caught up with it, and it wasn't even that bad to begin with.
Hell, it's a hard counter to Trample if nothing else.
I'll stand by my stance that Banding wasn't a bad mechanic, it was just put onto god awful cards since creatures were crazy bad at that point in the game.
@@tyroglyphid5769 Bands With Other!!
Not really, blocking with multiple creatures still requires the opponent to distribute all of the damage to the blockers before doing damage to the player. Banding also hard loses to Menace since the banded cards are effectively one creature. I think the best you could hope for Banding is creatures/effects to yield significant benefits gained when you Band. Things like Scry X equal to Band size, +X/+X equal to Band size, or gains Indestructible or Protections while Banding.
@@otterfire4712 If you block with a band, you get to assign the damage, not the opponent
@@WavemasterAshi Fuck bands with other. It's just nerfed Banding, and banding didn't need a nerf
The most played dungeon in non-commander constructed formats is that new one that let's you get basics as it's first step.
The under city.
Initiative? It's not even the same mechanic, it's slightly different. For the love of god i have no idea what they were thinking when they came up with this trash. 🤣
Along with what Drestlin replied, "Enter the Dungeon" can't take you into the Under city. It is a completely different dungeon that can only be entered by taking the Initiative. However, if you are in a dungeon and you take the Initiative, it will move you through your current dungeon (not start the under city, since you can't be in 2 places at the same time). It is a stupid mechanic.
Hey, I'm getting back into the game with after more than 15 year break. These are videos are awesome because it helps me learn all the good and bad mechanics that have come up. Thank you!
I like Cumulative Upkeep as it's a great way to balance very powerful cards, like Glacial Chasm. I wouldn't mind seeing it return.
Personally I really liked venture into the dungeon. I like the concept in all the different benefits you can potentially get however it did boil down to pick mines of phandelver most of the time.
Honestly, venture into the dungeon was really fun to play in limited.
Man I love cumulative upkeep, especially the cards that change up the format like Wall of Shards or Braid of Fire.
I also have a big love for Varchild’s War Riders, one of my favorite pet cards of all time
Coldsnap really did cumulative upkeep in a good way. It doesn't have to be all upside, but even something like Phyrexian Soulgorger that rewards you with an undercosted creature with the downside of needing to keep it fed is nice. Though honestly, from looking them up, even older designs were cool often enough, like Revered Unicorn, or things where it makes sense like Sustaining Spirit, though of course there's the chunk that were less than ideal but that's the case with most mechanics.
Personally I enjoy the "Venture into the Dungeon" mechanic, but I also kept and bring the regular-sized dungeon tokens as well as the Oversized versions you got with some of the product (Both AFR and Baldur's Gate dungeons) whenever I play at my LGS or with my friends.
That said I can also understand how it'd definitely add more mud to the already murky water of returning to MtG after even just a few years away.
I've never played with Day & Night, but I had a Werewolf commander deck in mind when the latest Innistrad set came out but never got to make it, and I never see Day & Night come into play in my friend circles or at my LGS, which I'm honestly glad for? It does seem tedious more than anything else, even for someone whose super excited about Werewolves.
Awww I was so happy to see you frame Sorin. Hes my Favorite
It's surprising that Venture into the Dungeon is here, but no mention of Take the Initiative as well. While it does only deal with the one dungeon, the Undercity, it adds to the fun by not only introducing the dungeon mechanic, but also FORCING the mechanic on everyone else at the table. Having a single Initiative card in your commander deck will force you to have 4 copies of the Undercity token on hand at all times. And good luck keeping track of EVERYONE'S progress in said dungeons at once, while accounting for who actually HAS the initiative at the moment, and who could potentially gain it. And again, this is if ANY of the 4 players at the table has even a SINGLE initiative card in their deck for any reason.
Because Initiative is Venture but actually good.
You’re able to progress through the dungeon, while Venture was lacklustre and wasn’t doing anything if you couldn’t venture again.
It's probably because you can take the initiative from another player ala the Monarch. It's far more interactive than Venture, Legacy players just don't want to run creatures.
@@KellyUnekis Initiative is a mechanic designed for multiplayer.
And just like Monarch, it warped 1v1 play. There a difference between not running creatures and the mechanic being unbalanced for play.
You don't need 4 tokens, you only need one.
@@KellyUnekisMy dude have you ever played legacy? Like the only decks that don’t run a significant amount of creatures are Lands and Doomsday. Initiative is just really strong. Who could’ve guessed that mechanics designed with 4 players in mind are busted in 1 on 1 🤔
I'm a little sad to see Venture on here, as I have been quite enamored with it since I first saw it after returning to the game last year. But I get it, cards having variable effects can increase the mental load for players who don't know the mechanic very well. I like it for the variance, it makes my turns more unpredictable as I choose between rooms and different cards have different effects on the game based on what dungeon I am in and where I am in it. I always bring enough Undercity dungeon cards for the table when I bring those decks out, and by now everyone at our table at least knows that taking the initiative for the first time means getting a land from their deck.
But I am totally with you on Day/Night. Between dozens of commander decks, we have seen a single day/night card, and it just adds this annoying thing we always have to track. It took the occasional clunkiness of old werewolves and cranked it to 11, while not properly interacting with the old werewolves either.
This comment, right here!
I don't do Take the Initiative because the reminder text on the back of the Undercity doesn't explain the mechanic properly.
9:20 … actually there is an incredible CIPHER card , Whispering Madness !
My nekusar deck LOVES this reoccurring wheel 😁
I actually had fun with the dungeon delve mechanic. Which is more than I can say about so many other mechanics. I get it's flaws, but it's still a little weird to see it so high.
If you want to know how broken the Companion keyword was:
Lurrus of the Dream-Den was banned in Vintage for power level reasons. No, not restricted. Banned.
In a format with turn 1 kills.
to be fair he was banned because restricting him would do nothing
@@thatone7589 That's true. Still, hi,m getting banned for power level reasons shows how incredibly broken that mechanic was.
Just wanted to take the time to rave about this video. I'm a MTGA player for years but have been trying to get into Brawl and Commander and this video finally made me build a deck that felt like it clicked rather than just a bunch of cards I threw together. Thanks so much for this!
Whispering Maddness is also very a very playable card in commander and BY FAR the strongest cypher card.
I run Whispering Madness in Nekusar, The Mindrazer.
With the Professor talking about how he dislikes these mechanics because they're so complicated and couldn't fully be printed on the card if not keyword'd, I'm really surprised that he didn't mention mutate.
Also, as someone who loves mutate, I'm realizing that my love of complicated mechanics probably puts me in the smaller group of Magic players out there.
I, too, like mutate and don't understand how people think it's a complicated mechanic.
The technicalities of mutate can make it complicated, especially its interaction with certain mechanics (like DFCs) but ultimately its fairly intuitive and unless you go out of your way to break it works just fine.
I loved mutate on Arena, I’m terrified to try making a functioning commander deck out of it though, seems like a fair bit of book keeping and reminding other players constantly what my huge stack of creatures does, only to get 6 for 1’d because they’d rather kill my creature than remember what it all does 😂
'Mutate' deserves an dishonourable mention as well. So horrible..