Look into DARPAs new mhd project since magnets from the fusion industry have gotten so much stronger around 5 times what they were. They believe they can make one with 90% efficiency the current record was set in 1992 at 30% the Yamamoto 1 I think.
Hydrophobic coatings immediately come to mind for efficiency increases. Also, there are nano-structured surface configurations that have hydrophobic drag-reducing properties. (i.e. shark skin inspired coatings.)
😮thank you for an excellent presentation,,,I'm going to apply what I have learned today and try to develop a full scale boat, a shallow draft narrow beam flat bottom boat or a small pontoon paddle boat. Very well done👍👌🖖❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you' Im rather clueless about what's goin on? Yet you presented this so well, It was still awesome, tho i felt like a family pet turning its head at the television?!' Till next time, Thank you again!' 👍
I believe it's like lorenz forces, similar to how a rail gun works. Basically the current puts a force perpendicular to the anode and cathode on the water, causing it to flow in a direction.
Good work. Maybe 2 points wich might help you highten the output: 1- put the magnet into "opened cascet" metal box with opened side, from wich you expect work. 2 - if the "bow" part of the magnet is actually burried inside of the hull (to not "look out", but be in direct line with the line of the hull) that might lower the drag too.
Works great in the medium of salt water. Similar MHD designs create Ion Wind with these same Lorentz Forces and can fly in the medium of our atmosphere. Amalgamate a rapid prototype of the 2 and you have the tic tac. It's similar to Dr. Gallagher's M2P2 Propulsion, Dr. Roy's WEAV, Dr. Pais HUAC, or Dr. Heidi Fearn's EM Drive. The math is in a JPRS:10040 - The Japan Report on CIA CREST FOIA engine, just typw in Magnetohydrodynamic Propulsion and you'll see it. (Very easy to scale to full size using that specific mathematical model.) And no, Eric Weinstein hasn't done his research on the tech, otherwise he would bring this up LOL
Why is MHD still in the test or demonstration stage?? China or India should made a test vehicles to demonstrate to the World on their innovation capabilities. The West won't do it because the Elites want to use to save themselves as an escape method to either Mars or further place to get away for problems they created on Earth.
My first thought with your nearly flush mounted magnet would be to bend the electrodes into an "L" shape to extend the electrical field out a bit more (and shape it) to get better interaction with the magnetic field. A side effect would be the electrodes would act as skegs or chines to help keep the boat moving straight through the water. Adding an iron "horseshoe" inside the hull to shape that part of the magentics absolutely makes sense. There is a large ,calm body of water that would be almost ideal for testing that type of marine propulsion system, it would require a trip to Israel though LOL
Optimum electrode shape will be a tradeoff between the additional thrust and the additional appendage drag. You are giving me good ideas, there are lots of salt evaporation pans adjacent to the local estuary.
Tried building one tonight but could not get it to work. I had a ceramic bar magnet with poles being on each end, I think I need a top/bottom pole magnet.
14:00 wow, i wanted to tell you about making the flux go thro metal over the other side of electrodes to raise efficiency, you ended talking about it here
How cold one capture and use the H2 produced..? I'm seeing a kind of hydrodynamic shaped hood (just in case) that hangs over the Cathode just above the water and a vacuum pump to suck it up, but unless there's a low pressure mini fuel cell... The Yamato 1 guys coulda just put a hood behind, vacuumed by the genset intake. I don't know how you'd clean up the exhaust though. Hmmm...
I see a few but consistent bubbles popping as they hit the surface by the side of the boat. Not sure but this may be from the current, making H2 and 02?
Yes it is the result of electrolysis, H2 at the positive electrode, O2 and/or Cl2 at the negative electrode. Various secondary reactions can take place at the negative electrode as the gas dissolves back into the water.
Cool topic, I'd like to see what driver you choose to control thrust power, and maybe compensate for changes in salinity / electrolyte conductivity. At 2W, it sounded like impedance was high enough that a higher voltage system might've helped or a CC regulator.
Transducers and embedded layering allow for +/- charge vectoring where the leading edge is positive charge, trailing edge is negative. Exactly like double lenticular Ionocrafts ;) Just remember to think in X, Y, and Z axis when building the "capacitor" plates.
If you mean using a cylindrical magnet that is magnetized diametrically (i.e. perpendicular to the axis) with one half protruding below the deck, then it should work even better than the block magnet. I believe the surface flux density is strong along the entire perimeter, rather than just at the edges of a block.
Instead of a permanent magnet what if you used an electromagnet. Wouldn't that give you the ability to move backwards in the water depending on the polarity of the magnet
Yes it would. It is also capable of stronger magnetic fields. It would require additional electric power though, while a permanent magnet doesn't. The Yamato mhd ship used superconducting electromagnets but changing the current direction in a superconductor is not a trivial matter.
The superconductor coils are powered up from a shore supply while the boat is still docked. Once the required current is flowing the coils are disconnected and the current just continues to flow through the coil in a closed loop for the duration of the voyage. The energy contained in the coils and magnetic field is massive. To reverse the current all that energy first need to be dissipated or stored before the coils are energized with a reversed current. In principle, supercapacitors might be able to store the energy like an LC circuit.
@@williamfraser but how would the current continue to flow though if there's resistance in the wire? Wouldn't it just dissipate as heat after so long? Are you using a room temperature superconductor or is this just hypothetical?
What about halbach array of magnets to increase the field of influence. Maybe a step up high voltage dc generator would give more current for better acceleration, would a transformer be better or more batteries in parallel? Cool stuff though anyways! 😮
For the thrust to be in a particular direction, the direction of the current and the direction of the magnetic field have to be correct. In a Halbach array, the direction of the magnetic field reverses from one element to the next, so the thrust would reverse as well.
A Halbach array will definitely strengthen the field in the water. As michaelbiggs commented, the array results in flux lines going in various directions, so a single pair of electrodes won't work. In my larger model I used two magnets giving a field of similar shape as a Halbach array's field. I used three electrodes which worked well. More thrust will require higher current and since the water resistance is fixed it means higher voltage. A boost converter will certainly work but parallel batteries won't make any difference.
Is their is any concentration on salt water used in it. Or we can mix crystal salt to water as a medium for this method. What is salt type and its concentration used in it could you please explain it. Also what is material used for making that boat
try a railgun with magnets/maglev-rail (not the induced magnetic field railgun, permanent magnet railgun with arc through the launched magnet/conductor, maglev when the projectile is a magnet disc/ring, disc-ring has minimal contact with the side walls but still conducts high current), and replace barrel/conductors/rifle-rails if the are consumed by the shot
I have tried something similar but the problem has always been melting and welding at the contact between rail and projectile. I think a thin layer of graphite should solve that problem. But yes, I really should build it!
@@williamfraser Trying myself that too, but I would just move the projectile so fast that any welding does not melt anything (flash heating but not melting)
What if you placed the oblong magnet within a cylinder of aluminium, where water was restricted in its flow thro and passed over past magnet.. ? Very interesting video, i appreciate ..u for getting ma mind working... Lol... Thanks.... Thom in Scotland.
What is Material used as electrode for it. Is Neodymium Magnet is necessary or we can use normal bar magnet on it , is it is possible. Is their is any specification required on battery is it is necessary to use lithium battery with specific power
I used aluminium tape for electrodes. Neodymium magnets and lithium batteries give the best performance but other types of magnets and batteries will also work.
I wonder what happens to a magnetic field if a permanent magnet is sped up to the speed of light and beyond like what would happen if you trailed a magnet out the back of a warp bubble spacecraft
well, i have no ide about this stuff, so i ask a dumb question, i understnd this works with a small eps ship, but what about scale? and at scale, lets say a 40 foot ship, what impact could this have on life in the water? is it less impactfull then normal rotor blade cos it dont emmits stron sound? or does the extra strong magnetic force have any possible impact on sea lifes sense of navigation?
The magnetic field strength diminishes drastically with distance away from the boat but quantifying its impact on sea life will be difficult to determine. The same goes for the external electric currents, so I doubt this configuration would ever be considered acceptable at larger scale.
The wind force on the turbine will completely overpower the mhd thrust. The problem is the low efficiency of the mhd. You'll need a very large turbine to generate the necessary power.
A spatula is about as hydrodynamic as you'll ever get. And as luck would have it, that is exactly what I have to make before tonight's woodturning guild meeting...
The dis-similar metals idea is brilliant! Is that your idea? Would it help to ionize the water ahead of the boat with an electron beam or some kind of static generator? Ionized water should behave differently in the magnetic field but I cannot predict how since both the magnet and the foil conductors are stationary and every design I come up with requires some kind of moving magnetic field. Good luck William
Thanks Wade. Yes the different metals is my idea, although I doubt I'm the first to come up with it. I don't know anything about electron beams but adding salt to the water ahead of the electrodes will increase the water's conductivity allowing higher current and more thrust (or higher efficiency at the original amount of current). The acceleration of the additional salt mass should also provide more thrust.
@@williamfraser The implication is that fresh water lakes would not be a good candidate for this kind of propulsion, however some water has a high mineral content and might still work, and then there are natural salty lakes. Ionizing water is not something I know anything about, but I am sure there is a video on how to do it if it is feasible. Perhaps elongating your electrodes for the length of the boat and getting more use out of your magnet source at the back.
I have just learned that the Yamato-1 mhd ship also used dissimilar metal electrodes, platinum plated titanium cathode and iridium oxide DSA anode to suppress chlorine gas formation and erosion. The electrodes conducted up to 2000A, I'm not sure about voltage but I doubt a couple of extra volts would have been a design consideration.
Yes, and it’s a relatively constant voltage differential. Is it enough of a differential to run a joule thief with, to recharge the battery? Or could a supercapacitor & solar cell be used rather than the battery?
I'm also not totally sure how you'll measure success. Will you be timing speeds and accelerations for a fixed electrode spacing, fixed magnet width, and fixed current to find the fastest design, or will you be measuring thrust or pressure, and determining the efficacy of your system (thrust/watt) based on different configurations, and declaring the highest to be the best? Efficiency would also be very interesting to find out. Would this be based on how much joule heating is produced in the water and wires, as well as how much hydrolysis and electrolysis you might be unintentionally producing? Excited for your work!
I already have a good idea of the optimal hull shape for the job, so that is more or less fixed. Having multiple magnets gives more control for shaping the magnetic field so I will most likely experiment with different arrangements. I will test at the same displacement as the catamaran and measure success by top speed. Static thrust would also be interesting to compare.
@@williamfrasercould u not use this tech too get the bare minimum energy too charge up 12v say 2 amp batteries....too Me all this tech should be about getting small batts charged for free or an upfront cost that can be recouped via electricity harvesting and then those small batts you have managed too charge you can series n parralel indefinitely too power anything you wish....so just enough electric harvest too charge small batteries because once you have your upfront cost off materials repayed technically too you personally are you now not getting free energy untill your design fails ?....
@@jshaw4757 the design can be used as a generator if the process is reversed, i.e. if water is forced over the magnet and electrodes. Whatever current is produced needs to pass through the seawater which has very high resistance. I've tried taking measurements while pushing the boat through the water but could not even register a mV.
Im commenting without knowledge nor experience hear... But youre location might affect the travel here... Water in north and south hemispheres run down the plug hole in different directions... Could this be having an effect ?. Thom in Scotland.
Very interesting observation. I know snipers take the Coriolis force into account for long range shots. I doubt that it will have any measurable effect on this experiment though.
@@williamfraser ... Doubting is different from knowing .. a rifle barrel turned with left or indeed Wright hand turning then ... Add the magnetic force of the Northern, or southern hemisphere...is different again presumed to knowing ... Thank you for you're ... reply ... Thom in Scotland.
Yes there definitely is hydrolysis but I still need to figure out how much energy is wasted in the process. An old declassified military research paper on mhd drives found that the bubbles had no measurable impact on efficiency. I need to look it up again, it might have referred to the presence of bubbles rather than the gas formation itself.
@@williamfraser That's from the eddy currents in the Poynting Energy Flow(Lorentz Forces). You'll see it in fluid dynamics imaging at JPL with Dr. Roy's WEAV (Wingless Electromagnetic Aerial Vehicle) Yep yep. Your welcome!
Just one criticism. Flux lines are static and do not change (unless the underlying magnet changes), but the drag through space is decreased in the individual flux lines by placing magnetic iron in its path. Air simply resists magnetic flux much more than magnetic iron.
Any iron in proximity changes the flux lines. Compare the flux distribution of a free magnet with one close to a thick iron plate and you will find almost no flux on the reverse side of the plate. The plate completely re-routes the flux.
I don't fully understand these principles but to me it seems like you could compound the effect by stacking those magnets and only using the magnetic flux that is right next to the magnets themselves and running a wire in a weird shape that makes it so the current goes through the flux then behind the magnets to the place where the wire started from and then running it through again and again and again which would give you more thrust I think
It is the current passing through the water that matters. The water is the "moving" conductor and experiences a force in the same way as a current carrying copper wire in an electric motor. Current is passed into the water as it slides over the electrodes , just like the sliding contact in a brushed dc motor.
@@williamfraser okay that makes a little more sense. So what would happen if you changed the resistance of the water by adding more or less salt to it? I assume that less salt would mean less force to go forward and more salt would mean more force to go forward up to a certain point. Does that sound right?
Another thought: Why not put your electrodes OVER a broader magnet? that way the magnetic field is stronger/closer to the electric field and the2 are more perpendicular to each other with no backward field/ reverse thrust anywhere. Halbach Array..??? Also NB the scientific paper on the Chlorine-Hydrogen fuel cell. That means the gasses could be collected and turned back into electricity. That should add a bit of range/efficiency.
A propeller is way more efficient, there is no question about that. The advantage of MHD is stealth and, in this special duct-less configuration, no risk of being fouled up by weed or debris.
@@williamfraser Thanks for reply ! I'm not an engineer, I learnt Maxwell's rule when I was in high school attending Physics lesson. I think, Maxwell's rule is one of the greatest discovery as it leads to the invention of electrical motor. Without electrical motor, we won't have so many electrical tools. As small as hand-held electrical drill, washing machine, compressor. As big as electrical generator and different kinds of engines, all these important inventions are mostly based on Maxwell's rule .... am I right ??
@@lorddiablo8575 The phenomenon is better known as the Lorentz force law but Maxwell's equations already accounted for it three decades earlier. Maxwell's equations go far beyond motor force, it describes electromagnetic radiation like radio and X-ray, optic lenses. His work followed on earlier discoveries by Faraday and Lenz.
I need 2 know - What frequency are you running this at - if you've considered 8 Hertz I'll engage if you want to play I'll come back later ... Call me.
I really should commit and just get it finished. The hull is just about complete. The last hurdle is installing the electrodes and connecting up the remote control circuit.
I see two HUGE problems with this type of drive. First, it seems far less efficient than a simple motor and propeller (I didn't watch the whole video - did you do an efficiency comparison?). And second, you're talking about sending large electrical current into the water - on a full-scale model with 100 volts, won't that electrocute anyone or anything swimming nearby?
Lloyd yes it is not very efficient, it is unlikely to ever be used for general use propulsion. Current can be increased by increasing electrode area or by reducing the electrode spacing.
One advantage is not getting fishing nets etc caught is a propeller. Are neodymium magnets better? I saw on another video some energy is wasted due to effervescence.
@Chaotic Content More fleshed out MHD and Ion Wind tech exist in CubeSats but that's all I'm going to say here LOL You can look at Dr. Subrata Roy's WEAV, and if you still can't figure it out then you don't need to know anyway.
Electricity won't travel the way you think, when in an infinite pooling/laminar flow of High-K Dielectric Plasma radiating from the hull. But yeah if you got too close you'd be cooked...but you wouldn't be that close to a submarine anyway. It's funny though, the inverse of this tech was shown in 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea...and that Lateral Zero Movie... Anyway China has shown the world they're full-functioning MHD Submarines, and Russia demonstrated their MHD Torpedos...so...why are Americans so dense when it comes to Nuclear and Plasma tech?
I saw a video like this about 30 years ago. Can't find it anymore. In the video, they used an air ionizer. I actually thought this would have been the same thing. All this stuff simply shows that quantum mechanics is possible. The demonstrations are annoying. They give me a feeling of time being wasted on the impossible. Let me give an example; Some person invents a billion-dollar idea as such and some other person is like, "look, I did it with a battery at low voltage and power.". Meanwhile, at a larger scale, that idea is using power inefficiently whereas you can use an electric motor more efficiently. And that's what's wrong with the world we live in. Did you know even Albert Einstein disliked this sort of thing? They ruin efficient and macro science.
This is not MHD. Or just the step 0. You don't understand the mechanic well. Your thing is like the garbage project yamato1 from Japan. I suggest you to refer to Jean Pierre Petit's works. He deleted the Velikov instability in 60s.70s. I'm not good enought in English and sry for that ^^. Can't explain more. Just check his work. For the science.
I've been interested in MHD since the 80's. Information was sparse and videos like this are rewarding.
Look into DARPAs new mhd project since magnets from the fusion industry have gotten so much stronger around 5 times what they were. They believe they can make one with 90% efficiency the current record was set in 1992 at 30% the Yamamoto 1 I think.
Really well explained, thanks for all the little interludes into various efficiency upgrades too. Subbed for more updates on this project.
Hydrophobic coatings immediately come to mind for efficiency increases. Also, there are nano-structured surface configurations that have hydrophobic drag-reducing properties. (i.e. shark skin inspired coatings.)
I wonder how/if it would cause impedance in the cathode and anode. cool.
I found kina coatings lol. Using crustacean antifoul tech
Fascinating Idea, can't wait to see how well it works as you do more with it.
Thanks so much for this, my first really clear idea of MHD.
"Yeah!!In the Mag tube"!!😯🤔🙄😉...
Looking forward to part 2 👍
😮thank you for an excellent presentation,,,I'm going to apply what I have learned today and try to develop a full scale boat, a shallow draft narrow beam flat bottom boat or a small pontoon paddle boat. Very well done👍👌🖖❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you' Im rather clueless about what's goin on? Yet you presented this so well, It was still awesome, tho i felt like a family pet turning its head at the television?!' Till next time, Thank you again!' 👍
I believe it's like lorenz forces, similar to how a rail gun works. Basically the current puts a force perpendicular to the anode and cathode on the water, causing it to flow in a direction.
You could ski behind that!
Multiple strips of n+s-n+s- give more efficiency as the electrical flux and magnetic flux are at greater angles and higher density.
Good work. Maybe 2 points wich might help you highten the output:
1- put the magnet into "opened cascet" metal box with opened side, from wich you expect work.
2 - if the "bow" part of the magnet is actually burried inside of the hull (to not "look out", but be in direct line with the line of the hull) that might lower the drag too.
good explanation by a good explainer !!
Thank you Evert. I hope you also had a look at the video of the new model. A detailed design review will follow soon.
Works great in the medium of salt water. Similar MHD designs create Ion Wind with these same Lorentz Forces and can fly in the medium of our atmosphere. Amalgamate a rapid prototype of the 2 and you have the tic tac. It's similar to Dr. Gallagher's M2P2 Propulsion, Dr. Roy's WEAV, Dr. Pais HUAC, or Dr. Heidi Fearn's EM Drive.
The math is in a JPRS:10040 - The Japan Report on CIA CREST FOIA engine, just typw in Magnetohydrodynamic Propulsion and you'll see it. (Very easy to scale to full size using that specific mathematical model.) And no, Eric Weinstein hasn't done his research on the tech, otherwise he would bring this up LOL
Why is MHD still in the test or demonstration stage?? China or India should made a test vehicles to demonstrate to the World on their innovation capabilities. The West won't do it because the Elites want to use to save themselves as an escape method to either Mars or further place to get away for problems they created on Earth.
My first thought with your nearly flush mounted magnet would be to bend the electrodes into an "L" shape to extend the electrical field out a bit more (and shape it) to get better interaction with the magnetic field. A side effect would be the electrodes would act as skegs or chines to help keep the boat moving straight through the water. Adding an iron "horseshoe" inside the hull to shape that part of the magentics absolutely makes sense. There is a large ,calm body of water that would be almost ideal for testing that type of marine propulsion system, it would require a trip to Israel though LOL
Optimum electrode shape will be a tradeoff between the additional thrust and the additional appendage drag. You are giving me good ideas, there are lots of salt evaporation pans adjacent to the local estuary.
He-he! :) I just noticed that you need to line your water trough up North-South to get the boat to go straight for testing...
nice video, interesting stuff
Tried building one tonight but could not get it to work. I had a ceramic bar magnet with poles being on each end, I think I need a top/bottom pole magnet.
14:00 wow, i wanted to tell you about making the flux go thro metal over the other side of electrodes to raise efficiency, you ended talking about it here
How cold one capture and use the H2 produced..?
I'm seeing a kind of hydrodynamic shaped hood (just in case) that hangs over the Cathode just above the water and a vacuum pump to suck it up, but unless there's a low pressure mini fuel cell...
The Yamato 1 guys coulda just put a hood behind, vacuumed by the genset intake.
I don't know how you'd clean up the exhaust though.
Hmmm...
Those 17 minutes went by faster then i realised!
I see a few but consistent bubbles popping as they hit the surface by the side of the boat. Not sure but this may be from the current, making H2 and 02?
Yes it is the result of electrolysis, H2 at the positive electrode, O2 and/or Cl2 at the negative electrode. Various secondary reactions can take place at the negative electrode as the gas dissolves back into the water.
Cool topic, I'd like to see what driver you choose to control thrust power, and maybe compensate for changes in salinity / electrolyte conductivity. At 2W, it sounded like impedance was high enough that a higher voltage system might've helped or a CC regulator.
Transducers and embedded layering allow for +/- charge vectoring where the leading edge is positive charge, trailing edge is negative. Exactly like double lenticular Ionocrafts ;) Just remember to think in X, Y, and Z axis when building the "capacitor" plates.
What if you use a round magnet to were there is only one point or corner
If you mean using a cylindrical magnet that is magnetized diametrically (i.e. perpendicular to the axis) with one half protruding below the deck, then it should work even better than the block magnet. I believe the surface flux density is strong along the entire perimeter, rather than just at the edges of a block.
Use a layer of bismuth or a David LaPoint cup shaped Halbach which is public domain to pinch your fields to suit your needs.
Why not hybridize the two approaches with the electrodes in the middle between two imbedded magnets?
Use the magnet as a Keel ( may need printed or sculptured dynamic edges)
Water pump to act as moving water tank
What if you made a magnet with multiple corners on the face sitting in the water? Say shaped like a trihull.
Have you thought of using a vacuum-form machine to create a custom hull design?
I haven't but it would be a good idea for production.
So we are just going to ignore the magnets in the bottom of the test tank?
Can smn list all the materials he used? Idk any 😢
Instead of a permanent magnet what if you used an electromagnet. Wouldn't that give you the ability to move backwards in the water depending on the polarity of the magnet
Yes it would. It is also capable of stronger magnetic fields. It would require additional electric power though, while a permanent magnet doesn't. The Yamato mhd ship used superconducting electromagnets but changing the current direction in a superconductor is not a trivial matter.
@@williamfraser how was it non trivial? Isn't that an isolated circuit of the system?
The superconductor coils are powered up from a shore supply while the boat is still docked. Once the required current is flowing the coils are disconnected and the current just continues to flow through the coil in a closed loop for the duration of the voyage. The energy contained in the coils and magnetic field is massive. To reverse the current all that energy first need to be dissipated or stored before the coils are energized with a reversed current. In principle, supercapacitors might be able to store the energy like an LC circuit.
@@williamfraser but how would the current continue to flow though if there's resistance in the wire? Wouldn't it just dissipate as heat after so long? Are you using a room temperature superconductor or is this just hypothetical?
That is the beauty of superconductors, practically zero resistance. The Yamato coils required cryogenic cooling.
What about halbach array of magnets to increase the field of influence. Maybe a step up high voltage dc generator would give more current for better acceleration, would a transformer be better or more batteries in parallel? Cool stuff though anyways! 😮
For the thrust to be in a particular direction, the direction of the current and the direction of the magnetic field have to be correct. In a Halbach array, the direction of the magnetic field reverses from one element to the next, so the thrust would reverse as well.
A Halbach array will definitely strengthen the field in the water. As michaelbiggs commented, the array results in flux lines going in various directions, so a single pair of electrodes won't work. In my larger model I used two magnets giving a field of similar shape as a Halbach array's field. I used three electrodes which worked well. More thrust will require higher current and since the water resistance is fixed it means higher voltage. A boost converter will certainly work but parallel batteries won't make any difference.
Can you provide the boat design measures?
180mm long, 62mm beam, 24mm deep. 122g displacement.
Is their is any concentration on salt water used in it. Or we can mix crystal salt to water as a medium for this method. What is salt type and its concentration used in it could you please explain it. Also what is material used for making that boat
Salt is NaCl, 3% concentration like seawater (30g salt per liter of water). The boat is made from Styrofoam
@@williamfraser Thank you sir
try a railgun with magnets/maglev-rail (not the induced magnetic field railgun, permanent magnet railgun with arc through the launched magnet/conductor, maglev when the projectile is a magnet disc/ring, disc-ring has minimal contact with the side walls but still conducts high current), and replace barrel/conductors/rifle-rails if the are consumed by the shot
I have tried something similar but the problem has always been melting and welding at the contact between rail and projectile. I think a thin layer of graphite should solve that problem. But yes, I really should build it!
@@williamfraser Trying myself that too, but I would just move the projectile so fast that any welding does not melt anything (flash heating but not melting)
What if you placed the oblong magnet within a cylinder of aluminium, where water was restricted in its flow thro and passed over past magnet.. ?
Very interesting video, i appreciate ..u for getting ma mind working...
Lol... Thanks....
Thom in Scotland.
There are many different configurations that could work, each with its pros and cons.
What is Material used as electrode for it. Is Neodymium Magnet is necessary or we can use normal bar magnet on it , is it is possible. Is their is any specification required on battery is it is necessary to use lithium battery with specific power
I used aluminium tape for electrodes. Neodymium magnets and lithium batteries give the best performance but other types of magnets and batteries will also work.
@@williamfraser Thank you Sir . It's been helpful
muy bueno
I wonder what happens to a magnetic field if a permanent magnet is sped up to the speed of light and beyond like what would happen if you trailed a magnet out the back of a warp bubble spacecraft
well, i have no ide about this stuff, so i ask a dumb question, i understnd this works with a small eps ship, but what about scale? and at scale, lets say a 40 foot ship, what impact could this have on life in the water? is it less impactfull then normal rotor blade cos it dont emmits stron sound? or does the extra strong magnetic force have any possible impact on sea lifes sense of navigation?
The magnetic field strength diminishes drastically with distance away from the boat but quantifying its impact on sea life will be difficult to determine. The same goes for the external electric currents, so I doubt this configuration would ever be considered acceptable at larger scale.
What if instead of the battery you used a wind turbine to generate power?
The wind force on the turbine will completely overpower the mhd thrust. The problem is the low efficiency of the mhd. You'll need a very large turbine to generate the necessary power.
Impressive, but can you make a hydrodynamic spatula with port and starboard attachments and turbo-drive?
A spatula is about as hydrodynamic as you'll ever get. And as luck would have it, that is exactly what I have to make before tonight's woodturning guild meeting...
The dis-similar metals idea is brilliant! Is that your idea? Would it help to ionize the water ahead of the boat with an electron beam or some kind of static generator? Ionized water should behave differently in the magnetic field but I cannot predict how since both the magnet and the foil conductors are stationary and every design I come up with requires some kind of moving magnetic field. Good luck William
Thanks Wade. Yes the different metals is my idea, although I doubt I'm the first to come up with it. I don't know anything about electron beams but adding salt to the water ahead of the electrodes will increase the water's conductivity allowing higher current and more thrust (or higher efficiency at the original amount of current). The acceleration of the additional salt mass should also provide more thrust.
@@williamfraser The implication is that fresh water lakes would not be a good candidate for this kind of propulsion, however some water has a high mineral content and might still work, and then there are natural salty lakes. Ionizing water is not something I know anything about, but I am sure there is a video on how to do it if it is feasible. Perhaps elongating your electrodes for the length of the boat and getting more use out of your magnet source at the back.
I have just learned that the Yamato-1 mhd ship also used dissimilar metal electrodes, platinum plated titanium cathode and iridium oxide DSA anode to suppress chlorine gas formation and erosion. The electrodes conducted up to 2000A, I'm not sure about voltage but I doubt a couple of extra volts would have been a design consideration.
Yes, and it’s a relatively constant voltage differential. Is it enough of a differential to run a joule thief with, to recharge the battery? Or could a supercapacitor & solar cell be used rather than the battery?
I'm also not totally sure how you'll measure success. Will you be timing speeds and accelerations for a fixed electrode spacing, fixed magnet width, and fixed current to find the fastest design, or will you be measuring thrust or pressure, and determining the efficacy of your system (thrust/watt) based on different configurations, and declaring the highest to be the best? Efficiency would also be very interesting to find out. Would this be based on how much joule heating is produced in the water and wires, as well as how much hydrolysis and electrolysis you might be unintentionally producing?
Excited for your work!
I already have a good idea of the optimal hull shape for the job, so that is more or less fixed. Having multiple magnets gives more control for shaping the magnetic field so I will most likely experiment with different arrangements. I will test at the same displacement as the catamaran and measure success by top speed. Static thrust would also be interesting to compare.
@@williamfraser Thanks for your comment, do your thing!
@@williamfrasercould u not use this tech too get the bare minimum energy too charge up 12v say 2 amp batteries....too Me all this tech should be about getting small batts charged for free or an upfront cost that can be recouped via electricity harvesting and then those small batts you have managed too charge you can series n parralel indefinitely too power anything you wish....so just enough electric harvest too charge small batteries because once you have your upfront cost off materials repayed technically too you personally are you now not getting free energy untill your design fails ?....
@@jshaw4757 the design can be used as a generator if the process is reversed, i.e. if water is forced over the magnet and electrodes. Whatever current is produced needs to pass through the seawater which has very high resistance. I've tried taking measurements while pushing the boat through the water but could not even register a mV.
Im commenting without knowledge nor experience hear... But youre location might affect the travel here... Water in north and south hemispheres run down the plug hole in different directions... Could this be having an effect ?.
Thom in Scotland.
Very interesting observation. I know snipers take the Coriolis force into account for long range shots. I doubt that it will have any measurable effect on this experiment though.
@@williamfraser ...
Doubting is different from knowing .. a rifle barrel turned with left or indeed Wright hand turning then ... Add the magnetic force of the Northern, or southern hemisphere...is different again presumed to knowing ...
Thank you for you're ... reply ...
Thom in Scotland.
A new Hunt for Red October drive
would it make sense to just add exposed single strand wire parallel to the magnet in place of the wide strips?
Yes it should work, efficiency might actually be higher. Well worth trying.
You have to make an atmospheric static motor. High voltage low Amp... And an electromagnet will give you Flux control if you want to go next level
does the battery get hot during operation?
I don't recall but I don't think it did.
What kind of electrodes are you using??
Aluminium adhesive tape
So the Red October really was silent eh?
What is the N S placement of the magnets?
North pole facing up.
"one ping only Vasily"
Lol
We need more studies on this
What was the name of the study you referenced? Just so I can understand the subject matter and factors more quantitatively.
"Experimental and theoretical study of magnetohydrodynamic ship models" by Cébron, Viroulet, Vidal and Masson.
I noticed some bubbles appearing from the electrodes. I assume that some energy was creating hydrolysis?
Yes there definitely is hydrolysis but I still need to figure out how much energy is wasted in the process. An old declassified military research paper on mhd drives found that the bubbles had no measurable impact on efficiency. I need to look it up again, it might have referred to the presence of bubbles rather than the gas formation itself.
@@williamfraser That's from the eddy currents in the Poynting Energy Flow(Lorentz Forces). You'll see it in fluid dynamics imaging at JPL with Dr. Roy's WEAV (Wingless Electromagnetic Aerial Vehicle)
Yep yep. Your welcome!
Just one criticism. Flux lines are static and do not change (unless the underlying magnet changes), but the drag through space is decreased in the individual flux lines by placing magnetic iron in its path. Air simply resists magnetic flux much more than magnetic iron.
Any iron in proximity changes the flux lines. Compare the flux distribution of a free magnet with one close to a thick iron plate and you will find almost no flux on the reverse side of the plate. The plate completely re-routes the flux.
I don't fully understand these principles but to me it seems like you could compound the effect by stacking those magnets and only using the magnetic flux that is right next to the magnets themselves and running a wire in a weird shape that makes it so the current goes through the flux then behind the magnets to the place where the wire started from and then running it through again and again and again which would give you more thrust I think
It is the current passing through the water that matters. The water is the "moving" conductor and experiences a force in the same way as a current carrying copper wire in an electric motor. Current is passed into the water as it slides over the electrodes , just like the sliding contact in a brushed dc motor.
@@williamfraser okay that makes a little more sense. So what would happen if you changed the resistance of the water by adding more or less salt to it? I assume that less salt would mean less force to go forward and more salt would mean more force to go forward up to a certain point. Does that sound right?
@@B2T7RID2QGLEHH5UZFB0T you nailed it. Thrust and efficiency increases with conductivity of the fluid.
Isn't that what the Russian sub in The Hunt For Red October used for propulsion?
Yes it is the same principle.
lovely
Another thought: Why not put your electrodes OVER a broader magnet?
that way the magnetic field is stronger/closer to the electric field and the2 are more perpendicular to each other with no backward field/ reverse thrust anywhere.
Halbach Array..???
Also NB the scientific paper on the Chlorine-Hydrogen fuel cell.
That means the gasses could be collected and turned back into electricity. That should add a bit of range/efficiency.
You sound like Christopher Lee.... :)
Perhaps a rounded magnet would actually be optimal.
You make a good point.
I think the tank you used is a little too big
Need to see more? Theory is new to me?
The question is, would the boat move more efficiently if you applied 2.1W to a motor driving a propeller?
A propeller is way more efficient, there is no question about that. The advantage of MHD is stealth and, in this special duct-less configuration, no risk of being fouled up by weed or debris.
So if you eliminated the battery would you still get any current with the different cathode.
Yes, as long as the electrodes are connected inside the hull to complete the circuit.
Based on Maxwell's Rule ... Magnetic Field, Electricity & Force ???
Exactly that. Water is the conductor.
@@williamfraser Thanks for reply ! I'm not an engineer, I learnt Maxwell's rule when I was in high school attending Physics lesson. I think, Maxwell's rule is one of the greatest discovery as it leads to the invention of electrical motor. Without electrical motor, we won't have so many electrical tools. As small as hand-held electrical drill, washing machine, compressor. As big as electrical generator and different kinds of engines, all these important inventions are mostly based on Maxwell's rule .... am I right ??
@@lorddiablo8575 The phenomenon is better known as the Lorentz force law but Maxwell's equations already accounted for it three decades earlier. Maxwell's equations go far beyond motor force, it describes electromagnetic radiation like radio and X-ray, optic lenses. His work followed on earlier discoveries by Faraday and Lenz.
@@williamfraser Learnt a lesson from you ... Thanks for sharing !
I need 2 know - What frequency are you running this at - if you've considered 8 Hertz I'll engage if you want to play I'll come back later ... Call me.
He's using a DC cell. The frequency is zero. Are you thinking about 7.83 Hz, the Earth's Schumann resonant frequency?
Part two please
I really should commit and just get it finished. The hull is just about complete. The last hurdle is installing the electrodes and connecting up the remote control circuit.
I see two HUGE problems with this type of drive. First, it seems far less efficient than a simple motor and propeller (I didn't watch the whole video - did you do an efficiency comparison?). And second, you're talking about sending large electrical current into the water - on a full-scale model with 100 volts, won't that electrocute anyone or anything swimming nearby?
Lloyd yes it is not very efficient, it is unlikely to ever be used for general use propulsion. Current can be increased by increasing electrode area or by reducing the electrode spacing.
One advantage is not getting fishing nets etc caught is a propeller. Are neodymium magnets better? I saw on another video some energy is wasted due to effervescence.
@Chaotic Content More fleshed out MHD and Ion Wind tech exist in CubeSats but that's all I'm going to say here LOL
You can look at Dr. Subrata Roy's WEAV, and if you still can't figure it out then you don't need to know anyway.
Electricity won't travel the way you think, when in an infinite pooling/laminar flow of High-K Dielectric Plasma radiating from the hull. But yeah if you got too close you'd be cooked...but you wouldn't be that close to a submarine anyway.
It's funny though, the inverse of this tech was shown in 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea...and that Lateral Zero Movie...
Anyway China has shown the world they're full-functioning MHD Submarines, and Russia demonstrated their MHD Torpedos...so...why are Americans so dense when it comes to Nuclear and Plasma tech?
So,there Is some truth to the Red October.
I don’t think I like your tone, Vasily.
ont s’emballe tous avec les énergies renouvelables çà c’est le futur🤣comme des ovnis vu les gens qui sont devenus des zombies c’est adaptes
a quoi sert les guerres quand y’a plus simple ce battent pour du pétrole ou du gaz mdr
You sound South African. :)
You’re using reverse engineering 😮
I saw a video like this about 30 years ago. Can't find it anymore. In the video, they used an air ionizer. I actually thought this would have been the same thing. All this stuff simply shows that quantum mechanics is possible. The demonstrations are annoying. They give me a feeling of time being wasted on the impossible. Let me give an example; Some person invents a billion-dollar idea as such and some other person is like, "look, I did it with a battery at low voltage and power.". Meanwhile, at a larger scale, that idea is using power inefficiently whereas you can use an electric motor more efficiently. And that's what's wrong with the world we live in. Did you know even Albert Einstein disliked this sort of thing? They ruin efficient and macro science.
Ерунда. Вся энергия (большая часть) тратится на электролиз солевого раствора. Кроме того, электролиз приводит к деградации электродов.
bleedin' HECK, dude 😑
This is not MHD. Or just the step 0. You don't understand the mechanic well. Your thing is like the garbage project yamato1 from Japan. I suggest you to refer to Jean Pierre Petit's works. He deleted the Velikov instability in 60s.70s. I'm not good enought in English and sry for that ^^. Can't explain more. Just check his work.
For the science.
Aluminum NOT aluminium. Why do Europeans insist on mispronouncing the word? Every time lol.
Because they named it first?