"one time i burned my hand on a hot lantern and i reacted to the pain..." and the second of silence after it caused me to burst out laughing elk is so fucking funny
I find it very interesting how a channel I really like, Playing With Power MTG, basically avoids all the pitfalls or creator games you went over. Their videos are super snappy and fast, with an excellent voice over that makes CEDH easy to follow. And since its CEDH theres always many explosive plays AND a lot of interaction without slowing down the video much, I highly recommend them! ☺️
I don't ❌trust content creators 🤓 because they keep telling 🫵🏻me run more REMOVAL 🔫and more STAX 🔪 pieces in my casual 👼🏻mtg decks. How dare them.😩 Yes, it makes the games more dynamic 🏃🏻♂️ and interesting 🔍... But we need to SMASH 👊🏻 face and BUILD 🏗️only MID-RANGE 📊 piles. 🥺
I don't ❌trust content creators 🤓 because they keep telling 🫵🏻me run more REMOVAL 🔫and more STAX 🔪 pieces in my casual 👼🏻mtg decks. How dare them.😩 Yes, it makes the games more dynamic 🏃🏻♂ and interesting 🔍... But we need to SMASH 👊🏻 face and BUILD 🏗only MID-RANGE 📊 piles. 🥺
you understand that people have different taste in terms of what makes a good game of EDH than you, yeah? Just because you're a sweaty try hard who couldn't cut it in constructed and need to compensate by playing nothing but hyper optimized EDH decks doesn't make you better than anyone who enjoys midrange games over beers because their self-worth isn't tied to their deck's win ratio. If you're so obsessed with running optimized lists why not play cEDH? Or are you too much of a f'ing scrub for that too?
In response to the Idea that losing can be just as fun as winning, i just wanted to mention my favorite MTG memory of recent times. I was playing my Sovereign Okinec Ahau deck, and over the course of one turn, turned a few 2-6 power creatures into 40+ power flying tramplers. I swung for the win, only to be stopped by an Everybody Lives cast for free off of an As Fortold. I got knocked out shortly after that, but left that game incredibly satisfied.
I'd like to add, as far as content creators go, it seems easy to pick on the command zone as they're the biggest of them all (and most likely most influential), but to be fair there is A LOT of removal/ interaction in their gameplay videos.
This makes me wanna start a podcast group with my friends, this sparked many topics in my mind for many topics and things I haven’t heard necessarily brought up often.
With regards to first screen commander content, MTG Goldfish came to mind. I rarely watched their MTGO clashes, but the paper stuff has been amazing stuff that I usually try to watch instead of just listen. I think it comes to a combination of showing their faces as well as their boardstate, leaving in talking and joking around (instead of purely "I play this card and do this thing, pass"), the editing flourishes (small sound effects when they lose health, showing cards on screen, and of course -69 damage getting a "nice" 😎), and knowing when to cut away from shuffling.
I think a big difference about playing removal being engaging during play vs not engaging while watching is that we lack knowledge about what’s in people’s hands. Atleast when you’re playing you know what’s in your hand. I think that’s something the command zone does well sometimes compared to other creators Knowing the meta you play in and what cards you usually have to play around (especially when it comes to having a consistent playgroup) is another layer of fun/complexity that I don’t think is captured anywhere in the content online
So at 32:12ish where hound talks about frequency of playing… definitely matters! I play maybe once a month for a few hours so when a deck doesn’t perform like it should ONE game I pack it up and grab a different one. I have 36 total and half of them are a year old and need testing so I need many games still for each one and I don’t have that time. So on point for that one! 👍👍🙌
Question Zone! - What factors affect how many colorless utility lands you run in a deck? What makes you draw the line on "too many" and what makes you feel like you could push your mana base more? Is the ideal that it only be so much that it almost never interferes with your game plan, or is that tradeoff sometimes worth the cost? For the amount of in-depth land discussion out there, I haven't heard that much about balancing colorless utility, so I'd love your guys' thoughts.
We could have used this kind of video months earlier. My Salubrillian friend's hands are already wet with the blood of 2 Elkians, and we haven't seen our Trinketarian comrade in weeks.
yesterday, i was a couple of seconds into this video and i injured myself at work 😂😂, and now that im out of work for a couple of days, it gives me a great excuse to finish this video 😂😂, love your content woodland critters and bauble mage
@ im all good, i ran over my foot with a loaded pallet jack, i went to the doctor and they said no fractures or anything, im just pretty banged up and they put me in a boot, but i appreciate the concern :)
Hey I finished the podcast ! Very uncentred, the middle part is interesting to be honest, i liked it. Also, I really do not think content creators are the reason why removal is hated. 2 things : 1- We are in a bubble. Do not think you are like other magic players, we are not the majority. The majority of players do not watch youtube videos about it, and like Wizards said, the vast majority of players play kitchen table magic. The vast majority of content about magic is in english. That's just one language, there are hundreds of them. 2- I play with family and friends that are bad players. My wife's cousin who just started playing, he proxied all her cards with Adventure Time art, so that she becomes interested in Magic. Well, she does not like removal. She has to play against a friend of his that plays no fun stax control "casts Armageddon because it is funny". Well she does not line removal, and has established commander as a format where everyone build their sandcastles on the beach. The winner has the prettiest sandcastle. Well then you have 2 strats for her, 1. Everyone builds something cool and then who has the prettiest. Or 2. Kick the others' sandcastles, and win by having the only one remaining. Aka stax+removal. = Players hating on removal and stax did not wait for youtube to exist. Anyway, that's all for me. Have a good day, from France
ok consider: commander gameplay show, but its fully animated. No ppl around the table, you just watch a tolarian professor, literal hound, Obi-Wan and a communist goblin duke it out in a full-on wizard battle. "oh i tap my llanowar elves for..." NO. You have a close up of an elf doing magic with their hands and summoning a wave of spores that destroys a spider nightmare from another realm that was charging on them.
My current desert deck is my animar deck, it has, 3 protection spells and 3 ramp spells, 6 total inst/sorc The rest is just x spells, value pieces, and mana dorks, it's just fun seeing how many dice I can put on things. Games consist of me small beaning for a while, popping off on turn 6, killing someone out of nowhere, and then dying. But because I put 6 20/20's on the board, I have no complaints when it happens.
this is one of the most nuanced discussions of removal ive heard online and i appreciate it so much. im in a situation where i run a good bit of removal in a pod that whines about removal and counterspells and doesnt run almost any. i thought they were just being childish in not wanting to cut a couple cards that kind of relate to their theme, but looking at it from the context of "thats how a lot of content creators play" and "well, seeing everyone's deck strategies and combos is more important than winning makes me unferstand it a little more. i still disagree and think thay people should play more removal because THATS what makes a game more interesting, but thank you for this insight
Best episode by far. The outro gets me every time XD. I would say you guys list too many cards to read out all of them, but just listing the key cards then putting an image of the others cards in passing would help.
I think one aspect to the lack of removal in people’s decks is that they watch more commander content than they play. So people have the expectation of minimal to no single target removal when making their decks. I’ve played against too many people in LGS’ who got salty after their threat was removed then preceded to get irrationally emotional. My guess is that the viewing experience from content is centered around them and their enjoyment; so when they get interacted with, that illusion of what they expected to occur is shattered. People weren’t celebrating their genius use of Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond, we killed it on the stack or the second it hit the table then moved on. The experience shifted from one focused around them to one that is communal. I just hope more people actually play magic/commander since that is the best way to fix the issues with their decks.
I play plenty of removal in my decks. It still doesn't feel good to have your stuff removed. I've personally took a player out for countering one of my spells, cause I have lethal, and you decided to draw attention to yourself.
I'm fairly new to commander (and not particularly good, I just like getting to do stuff), and when I first started I had a lot of removal. Perhaps my playgroup is just extra salty but I ended up taking out most counters and removal and replacing them with bounces or swat stuff. And I try not to target anything until the player gets to use it at least once or something. However, that's just what I prefer because personally I don't really play to win, I just want to engage in shenanigans and see other people's decks do what they do. I have also seen people get very annoyed with removal and maybe I'm just too sensitive myself but I'd rather avoid all conflict haha
@ My perspective on removal definitely changed over time. Initially I just took it as part of the game, but when I played Friday Night Magic with strangers, I started to remove it from my decks after people started to sometimes get confrontational about it. Nowadays I think they are some of the coolest plays in commander! 2 weeks ago a friend of mine played the 5 mana counterspell that creates thopters equal to the mana value of the spell countered, to counter my 11 mana value hydra that I was playing to win the game with some +1+1 counter moving shenanigans. So instead of me winning, he got 11 thopters which he made into 4/4s with Brudiclad and then with all my blockers, I exactly died to the last thopter token. Neither of us won the game, but I think I’m going to remember the play for a long time. I even made an Eluge deck afterwards that plays all of the silly high mana value counter spells to make my own hype moments like that in the future!
@@jonathanrichman2330 that's interesting! So your solution to the salt would be to play higher cost removal that adds interaction or does something neat? I'll have to look into that more, thanks for the ideas 😄
@ the nice part about niche removal spells is that they are usually super cheap since they were made for an old limited format! Like in my poison/proliferate deck, I use two counterspells that only work if the target is poisoned and I use Glen Elendra Archmage as a repeatable counterspell since I can give her +1/+1 counters to remove the -1/-1 counter so I can keep sacrificing her to stop really scary noncreature spells. I made a $50 budget Vishgraz deck with the theme of blinking. So some of the removal spells I chose are: Acidic Slime, Reclamation Sage, Knight of the Autumn, and Ravenous Chupacabra. The idea is that just getting the effect once is great, but occasionally being able to flicker them to remove another target is amazing! Modal spells like Knight of the Autumn are awesome since if I need to remove a pesky artifact or enchantment, I can do that on the first enters the battlefield, but if I need life gain or just want a bigger creature, I can choose the modes later! So modal removal spells that can also further your own game plan or take out a scary target are awesome spells to add to your deck!
Personally I find the combination of natural tangents from pre selected topics to be beneficial as it helps to flesh out the personalities and views on the game. Also second time shout out to niv mizzet supreme. Also Mald was handed the opportunity to capitalize on the fan fiction bit
So one of my favorite decks is narset enlightened master, but I don’t play the infinite turn loops. It’s a whole deck revolving around possibility storm and super friends, and artifacts. But it locks people out and shuts down control decks. I love it. 😂😂😂
Question Zone: What do you guys do for work, and it paid more, would you buy more expensive cards? Also, I absolutely loved your Guest's point on modern Commander being closer to a board game night to a lot of the newer players. That feels like it 100% nailed the vibe to me of a lot of playgroups I see right now.
I am a believer in Richard from MTG goldfish, he actually plays a lot of removal but it's board wipes and land based affects, the more I play commander the stronger it feels. I genuinely think his more competitive decks would beat most of the hosts ones
46:07 I can’t speak to games content creators have, but I can speak to games that I’ve played. And amongst friends we bm each other. Armageddon, we play Tergrid. Etc. We even let a player use dockside bc we’re friends and who cares? But online when I try to get in a game of Spelltable. Half the time it’s a big baby crying and ruining the game for everyone because that person got interacted with. I play decks that run 20-ish pieces of interaction (removal, wipes, protection, recursion). So i’m usually the one that says “no” to players popping off and getting ahead. That’s usually when the b*tching and moaning starts, “why are you targeting ME. Why don’t you target someone else’s thing? I’m NOT the threat.” For that reason I think OTHER players don’t run interaction bc there’s negative reinforcement for players to not run interaction and instead play more explosive cards that advance their boards because it’s more fun and leads to less “feel bads” and less annoying people crying over a literal card game. That’s my take. I don’t think it’s just players seeing content creators popping off and seeing fun plays being made. It’s more they don’t like feeling bad or hear someone complaining over a Generous Gift being played.
"Play more explosive cards that advance their boards because it's more fun... " I feel like you literally explained why people don't play interaction right here. I am definitely someone that doesn't run as much interaction so I would be in the camp that you're talking about and I have to say as someone from that group yeah I definitely would not want to play against someone that has 20 pieces of interaction in their deck. It was mentioned in the video but a lot of people don't get to play a ton of games of magic and so they like to be able to do the thing their deck does. Obviously, I don't think people should be rude or anything to people that play a bunch of interaction, But I certainly wouldn't sit at the table for another round of magic with you. I think that if one fifth of your deck is interaction, then at that point a sub genre of your deck is basically not allowing other people to play their decks. And yeah that annoys people. So yeah I feel like you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. On one hand you want to play interaction and take the game seriously and you want a bunch of strangers to be cool with that. And that's just not an option. You can control that in your personal playgroup where it seems like you get to play all the cards that you want, but just like people that don't like interaction can't control what other people do, you as someone who likes a lot of interaction can't control how other people feel about interaction.
@@BigBosssette So, a) i defined interaction as both PROTECTION, RECURSION, AND REMOVAL and WIPES all in the same category. So 1/5 of the deck being stuff that does something other than directly influence your gameplan doesn’t seem too far-fetched to me. B) you’re 100% entitled to your opinion that you wouldn’t have fun at a table with me, but i believe Magic is Magic BECAUSE you CAN interact with others. Making EDH into a race of who can get off the their strategy the fastest instead of balanced decks ready for anything and everything seems extremely boring and I PERSONALLY wouldn’t want to be playing against players like yourself. And im entitled to that opinion. C) ESPECIALLY IF YOU ONLY HAVE VERY LITTLE TIME TO PLAY MAGIC, i would include MORE INTERACTION. Why? So i can play the game. Someone out there is going to have a Dranith Magistrate that’s going to lock out my commander. So i need removal. Someone is going to board wipe, so I need protection. Someone is going to blow up my stuff, so i need recursion. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have these basic necessities in your deck and i don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect you to be able to potentially play around it. I interact with you, you interact with me. Just like this comment. Or would you rather you scream into the void and no one to hear it? EDH is a social game BECAUSE its interactive. You CAN politic, you CAN make deals. Interacting with your opponent(s) is a dialogue. It’s a back and forth. I expect you to stop me. And i expect you to have things I want to stop. If you like the game to be 4 separate instances of Goldfishing (playing by your self) then go ahead and do so. But i think that’s just a sad way to be.
Yep. That's fair. And I find your way of playing a sad way to be. I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion. I just think that for every person who you you say is being a cry baby there are very aggressive people like you that think your way of playing is best. And people think that is equally vibe ruining and unfun to play against. I think you paint your opposition as the only kind of people that are annoying to play with at the table when people that play like you can also be unfun to play against given peoples tastes. I don't think interaction makes magic magic because many card games do this in different ways. I don't think you are playing TRUE magic any more or less than I'm playing magic. But comments from people who like to play like you seem to express that. That your way of playing is right and everyone else's is wrong. It is even expressed in this video of all the times people say "you can play how you want but..." And then basically advise people to play the game the way they think it should be played. We will obviously never see the game the same way or see what is fun the same way. The conversation just seems to be very one sided.
I think I saw an example of main screen commander content done by Big Deck Energy. Granted it was shock collar commander, but it required more attention to detail from the viewer to understand the extra bit. And if you understand the ins and outs of triggers and rules, it's that much more satisfying to feel the tension of "will they remember that trigger."
Interesting talk about the different metas. Something I realized over time that my LGS' meta is primarily driven by very content creator-inspired games, which brings a ton of issues when I sit with a responsible deck that has more than one counterspell and two removals (the average I see there). It is so normal for me to see someone play decks that ramp and draw cards into oblivion, but rarely manage to win effectively, or fold over to a single piece of interaction played correctly. Meanwhile I usually get side glances on any stormy deck that goes from zero to a million without playing any super well known card or without a lot of board presence On the topic of Magic becoming first screen content: Card Market does it. Their process of "interviews" in the middle of games helps a ton making interactive gameplay really matter
I think your section about the difference in playgroups was quite interesting! I'm part of the group that rarely gets games of commander (sometimes zero a month) and so, when they do happen, the most important thing for me is to have everyone play the game. Our playgroup even enables this by allowing people to take as many free mulligans as they want (though we give people crap past mulligan three). Stax and full-on control are soft banned? In that those decks don't show up but are completely fine. But I and one of the friends in that group like playing very competitive Magic, where control, stax, aggro, and combo are all on the table. And since our commander games are much less intense and lean towards midrange-y value, we decided to just play modern/pioneer/canlander with each other. I will note that our commander games are interactive; everyone is playing boardwipes, targeted removal, graveyard hate, protection, and counterspells. Not nearly as much as a cEDH deck, of course, but it's there.
1:11:11 oh hey look funny timestamp, but currently my 7 favorite decks out of my 20 or so, are my 5 mono color decks (Gaffer life gain, Arcanis Omniscience, Drivnod big death triggers, MH3 Ashling mono red control, and Kosei Primal Surge), my Zhulodok colorless deck, and a 3 color Marneus Calgar clue deck that I could have absolutely made into a 4 color deck, in order to add all the juicy deep clue sea green clue generator cards, but cutting back to 3 colors evolved that deck into a secret commander Tezzeret, Master at the Bridge deck, where I try to play tezzeret out to dome everyone for 20+ damage. The mono color decks are really fun to build, I took apart my mono color decks to make the current 5, but I think at some point I might have more than 1 of each mono color deck kept together, the previous five were delney (as elk said, card advantage isn't so hard, I remember a game against a mono blue deck and a Greensleeves deck, and at one point I had more lands than the greensleeves player, and had a thinner library than the mono blue player.), Azami (a rediscovery of how busted wizards are, was semi-competitive), Sheoldred // The True Scriptures (tried to do all graveyard stuff, mill, reanimate, mass reanimate, cares about cards being milled, cares about cards in graveyard etc.), Calamity (This deck was fun but was like playing with an unloaded gun in the command zone, and sometimes you just didn't draw any bullets.), and Kodama/Gilanra (manually storm out and put the deck onto the battlefield).
Question Zone: What is your opinion on light staxx that incentivizes interaction, things like Ethersworn Canonist, deafening silence, Charitable Levy and Stone of Erech. Basically anything that limits options while not being desolation.
You guys talking about Fiend hunter loops reminded me of one game I played, years ago when Lorwyn was standard, it was an elemental aggro deck, so "champion a creature" was relevant. I can't remember what I was playing against but I was losing, and didn't want a loss on my record, so I set up a 3 creature "champion a creature" loop with no other targets. We had to call over a judge because my opponent didn't understand why the game was a draw.
Just saying Mald, I would watch you make more "reaction" content about gameplay clips framed as a sports commentator. Draw on the screen with the yellow lines and circles like you're watching NFL replays, and act like the smallest things are hugely exciting.
I haven't had a chance to watch just yet but I wanna get this off my chest. I think it's sus that I never see the mega popular commander folks use board wipes 😮
In defense of Richard - Up to you if you believe it or not, but he maintains (according to their podcasts) that his playstyle and approach to commander works even better outside of the Clash meta. In personally have adopted his approach and it works exceptionally well imo. Additionally, their ban list does ban some fast mana stuff, but the most recent bans were Field of the Dead and Glacial Chasm which are two Richard staples.
Elk's pic in this looks so nervous to have Maldhound on!
Wolves do hunt deer.
I mean I'd be the same way if a radioactive wolf was next to me
😭
Did you hear how elk melted when maldy called them cute? Ofc they're nervous
Can I trust elk? With that mischievous picture? Devious. I think not.
😂
That's how I look holding a spell pierce hoping the next player taps out with something big
“Can you trust content creators” idk I think trinket mage is trying to sell me on artifact decks 24/7
I hope every guest eventually joins the cast
then we eventually have like 30 people just yelling over each other
@@thetrinketmage Peak Discord call moment
The council
@@thetrinketmage average Reddit post
@@thetrinketmage You're saying that like it wouldn't be epic :P
"one time i burned my hand on a hot lantern and i reacted to the pain..." and the second of silence after it caused me to burst out laughing elk is so fucking funny
Elk’s humor seems to align with mine the most out of almost anyone else I’ve seen, it’s great
I find it very interesting how a channel I really like, Playing With Power MTG, basically avoids all the pitfalls or creator games you went over. Their videos are super snappy and fast, with an excellent voice over that makes CEDH easy to follow. And since its CEDH theres always many explosive plays AND a lot of interaction without slowing down the video much, I highly recommend them! ☺️
I think playing with power is the best gameplay channel out there!
Slowly assembling the Avengers of Commander content.
Oh man, I know hes a curmudgeon, but he's the people's champ, we need Demo (EDHDeckbuilding) in here!!
@Kulreg777 I'd like to see him in an episode too. Also, the Nitpicking Nerds would be awesome.
Can we get Crim?
But not their pronouns.
@@CharlesLeeRay812
we need Better Commander in here, brother!
Maybe if we feed the dog it might stay
We did get to keep the snail after all!
One thing that I know is that we cannot trust Maldhound's inner thoughts on balance of green
I'm very normal and can be trusted with the Lorax's home address
Every blue players dream is to sign the foreclosure documents on the lorax’s house
I feel like it would start with a bat to the kneecaps and end with you calling Tormod to see if he's willing to hide a body in his crypt.
@@maldhoundyou and i know damn well that you're the dude singing "how bad can i really be? "
First an Elk, then a Snail and now a Hound? Trinket's zoo is expanding at an alarming rate!
The awkward silence into “yeah I guess this is a good time to end” gets me every time😂
I don't ❌trust content creators 🤓 because they keep telling 🫵🏻me run more REMOVAL 🔫and more STAX 🔪 pieces in my casual 👼🏻mtg decks. How dare them.😩 Yes, it makes the games more dynamic 🏃🏻♂️ and interesting 🔍... But we need to SMASH 👊🏻 face and BUILD 🏗️only MID-RANGE 📊 piles. 🥺
Reject interaction embrace battlecruiser
I don't trust trinket mage because he tells me to run cards I feel ruin games, to help my games 😂
I don't ❌trust content creators 🤓 because they keep telling 🫵🏻me run more REMOVAL 🔫and more STAX 🔪 pieces in my casual 👼🏻mtg decks. How dare them.😩 Yes, it makes the games more dynamic 🏃🏻♂ and interesting 🔍... But we need to SMASH 👊🏻 face and BUILD 🏗only MID-RANGE 📊 piles. 🥺
you understand that people have different taste in terms of what makes a good game of EDH than you, yeah?
Just because you're a sweaty try hard who couldn't cut it in constructed and need to compensate by playing nothing but hyper optimized EDH decks doesn't make you better than anyone who enjoys midrange games over beers because their self-worth isn't tied to their deck's win ratio.
If you're so obsessed with running optimized lists why not play cEDH? Or are you too much of a f'ing scrub for that too?
@@lracseroom8286 b8
Trinket mage, I’m so glad someone from outside the mtggoldfish meta brought up Richard’s just awful take on spot removal
Yea I watch a lot of the goldfish content and he has the craziest commander takes out of anyone online I feel like
@@patches.742Wdym Path to Exile is genuinely a good card and not just ramp in aristocrats
@@simongpunkt not sure aristocrats particularly likes exiling its own creatures
In response to the Idea that losing can be just as fun as winning, i just wanted to mention my favorite MTG memory of recent times.
I was playing my Sovereign Okinec Ahau deck, and over the course of one turn, turned a few 2-6 power creatures into 40+ power flying tramplers. I swung for the win, only to be stopped by an Everybody Lives cast for free off of an As Fortold. I got knocked out shortly after that, but left that game incredibly satisfied.
There's a handy tip for journalism which states: "Any headline ending with a question mark can be answered NO" and it applies here
Be right back, gonna make a headline titled "Is life worth living?"
@@bluetf2622 No
MALDHOUND! On MAGIC MIRROR PODCAST!?!? What crazy universe is this?
Ayyy my 4 favorite small(ish these days) mtg creators on one podcast? This must be a mirage
I like your profile pic
I really liked having Mald here it was kinda nice having a less structured episode and just some bs with the bros it was a relaxing time
I'd like to add, as far as content creators go, it seems easy to pick on the command zone as they're the biggest of them all (and most likely most influential), but to be fair there is A LOT of removal/ interaction in their gameplay videos.
This makes me wanna start a podcast group with my friends, this sparked many topics in my mind for many topics and things I haven’t heard necessarily brought up often.
The less structured episodes with elks random chaos are what I love most about this podcast (love you elk
Dream blunt rotation
This board state is getting large.
With regards to first screen commander content, MTG Goldfish came to mind. I rarely watched their MTGO clashes, but the paper stuff has been amazing stuff that I usually try to watch instead of just listen. I think it comes to a combination of showing their faces as well as their boardstate, leaving in talking and joking around (instead of purely "I play this card and do this thing, pass"), the editing flourishes (small sound effects when they lose health, showing cards on screen, and of course -69 damage getting a "nice" 😎), and knowing when to cut away from shuffling.
24:20 when they get to the topic of the podcast. ❤️
56:30 QUESTION ZONE 🌀
Thanks ! 🤘🦁🤘
46:42 when Trinket Mage said "and I think I'm dead for half of it" I honestly spilled my water
I think a big difference about playing removal being engaging during play vs not engaging while watching is that we lack knowledge about what’s in people’s hands. Atleast when you’re playing you know what’s in your hand. I think that’s something the command zone does well sometimes compared to other creators
Knowing the meta you play in and what cards you usually have to play around (especially when it comes to having a consistent playgroup) is another layer of fun/complexity that I don’t think is captured anywhere in the content online
Suddenly all of my favs on one podcast
This is phenomenal, the banter is peak
As someone who's RUclips consumption is 90% while sitting at my desk at work, that "second screen" comment by Mald is 100% accurate
17:02 I build my decks around what song would be their theme song if they were pro wrestlers so that’s dope you see the cards similarly.
So at 32:12ish where hound talks about frequency of playing… definitely matters! I play maybe once a month for a few hours so when a deck doesn’t perform like it should ONE game I pack it up and grab a different one. I have 36 total and half of them are a year old and need testing so I need many games still for each one and I don’t have that time. So on point for that one! 👍👍🙌
Best outro so far.
Question Zone! - What factors affect how many colorless utility lands you run in a deck? What makes you draw the line on "too many" and what makes you feel like you could push your mana base more?
Is the ideal that it only be so much that it almost never interferes with your game plan, or is that tradeoff sometimes worth the cost?
For the amount of in-depth land discussion out there, I haven't heard that much about balancing colorless utility, so I'd love your guys' thoughts.
You can check Snail's Blame Game precon upgrade for that ^ ^
Trinket mage is gathering up a zoo for us. Elk, Snail, Hound. Just need a few more animals!
We could have used this kind of video months earlier. My Salubrillian friend's hands are already wet with the blood of 2 Elkians, and we haven't seen our Trinketarian comrade in weeks.
“We’re gonna fix you, brother”
yesterday, i was a couple of seconds into this video and i injured myself at work 😂😂, and now that im out of work for a couple of days, it gives me a great excuse to finish this video 😂😂, love your content woodland critters and bauble mage
Sorry to hear that hopefully you’re alright!
@ im all good, i ran over my foot with a loaded pallet jack, i went to the doctor and they said no fractures or anything, im just pretty banged up and they put me in a boot, but i appreciate the concern :)
I like Blighted Woodland in mono-green control to help sneak in null elemental blast.
Hey I finished the podcast !
Very uncentred, the middle part is interesting to be honest, i liked it.
Also, I really do not think content creators are the reason why removal is hated. 2 things :
1- We are in a bubble. Do not think you are like other magic players, we are not the majority. The majority of players do not watch youtube videos about it, and like Wizards said, the vast majority of players play kitchen table magic. The vast majority of content about magic is in english. That's just one language, there are hundreds of them.
2- I play with family and friends that are bad players. My wife's cousin who just started playing, he proxied all her cards with Adventure Time art, so that she becomes interested in Magic. Well, she does not like removal. She has to play against a friend of his that plays no fun stax control "casts Armageddon because it is funny".
Well she does not line removal, and has established commander as a format where everyone build their sandcastles on the beach. The winner has the prettiest sandcastle.
Well then you have 2 strats for her, 1. Everyone builds something cool and then who has the prettiest. Or 2. Kick the others' sandcastles, and win by having the only one remaining. Aka stax+removal.
= Players hating on removal and stax did not wait for youtube to exist.
Anyway, that's all for me. Have a good day, from France
Maldhound was a delightful guest :)
ok consider: commander gameplay show, but its fully animated. No ppl around the table, you just watch a tolarian professor, literal hound, Obi-Wan and a communist goblin duke it out in a full-on wizard battle. "oh i tap my llanowar elves for..." NO. You have a close up of an elf doing magic with their hands and summoning a wave of spores that destroys a spider nightmare from another realm that was charging on them.
I enjoyed the discussion on why people enjoy being theatrical when their deck pops off.
This podcast just keeps getting better and better
38:06 3 to the face is enough to throw most people off their game. I get it
My current desert deck is my animar deck, it has, 3 protection spells and 3 ramp spells, 6 total inst/sorc
The rest is just x spells, value pieces, and mana dorks, it's just fun seeing how many dice I can put on things.
Games consist of me small beaning for a while, popping off on turn 6, killing someone out of nowhere, and then dying.
But because I put 6 20/20's on the board, I have no complaints when it happens.
this is one of the most nuanced discussions of removal ive heard online and i appreciate it so much. im in a situation where i run a good bit of removal in a pod that whines about removal and counterspells and doesnt run almost any. i thought they were just being childish in not wanting to cut a couple cards that kind of relate to their theme, but looking at it from the context of "thats how a lot of content creators play" and "well, seeing everyone's deck strategies and combos is more important than winning makes me unferstand it a little more. i still disagree and think thay people should play more removal because THATS what makes a game more interesting, but thank you for this insight
MOM CAN WE KEEP HIM TOO
we can't do this with every guest! But he is welcome back whenever
I want to clip Elk saying "You have to pay 5 mana for it" through gritted teeth and play it every time someone asks me about a costy card
Best episode by far. The outro gets me every time XD. I would say you guys list too many cards to read out all of them, but just listing the key cards then putting an image of the others cards in passing would help.
Kharn is actually so cool. I would make copies with him using delina and draw a grip when the tokens disappeared
Elk and Maldhound would be a great First Screen Commentary duo
Cardmarket is great at making their mtg content "First screen content". Carl does a great job.
This was an especially good episode. I don't watch his content but the dog man had some thoughtful and interesting takes.
Please, please make the card art larger. The mirror shouldn't be taking up so much screen real estate.
It's really hard for me to read the card text
Maldhound really hit the nail on the head. I play once a week, I wanna proactively do something cool
I think one aspect to the lack of removal in people’s decks is that they watch more commander content than they play. So people have the expectation of minimal to no single target removal when making their decks. I’ve played against too many people in LGS’ who got salty after their threat was removed then preceded to get irrationally emotional. My guess is that the viewing experience from content is centered around them and their enjoyment; so when they get interacted with, that illusion of what they expected to occur is shattered. People weren’t celebrating their genius use of Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond, we killed it on the stack or the second it hit the table then moved on. The experience shifted from one focused around them to one that is communal. I just hope more people actually play magic/commander since that is the best way to fix the issues with their decks.
I play plenty of removal in my decks. It still doesn't feel good to have your stuff removed. I've personally took a player out for countering one of my spells, cause I have lethal, and you decided to draw attention to yourself.
I'm fairly new to commander (and not particularly good, I just like getting to do stuff), and when I first started I had a lot of removal. Perhaps my playgroup is just extra salty but I ended up taking out most counters and removal and replacing them with bounces or swat stuff. And I try not to target anything until the player gets to use it at least once or something. However, that's just what I prefer because personally I don't really play to win, I just want to engage in shenanigans and see other people's decks do what they do. I have also seen people get very annoyed with removal and maybe I'm just too sensitive myself but I'd rather avoid all conflict haha
@ My perspective on removal definitely changed over time. Initially I just took it as part of the game, but when I played Friday Night Magic with strangers, I started to remove it from my decks after people started to sometimes get confrontational about it. Nowadays I think they are some of the coolest plays in commander! 2 weeks ago a friend of mine played the 5 mana counterspell that creates thopters equal to the mana value of the spell countered, to counter my 11 mana value hydra that I was playing to win the game with some +1+1 counter moving shenanigans. So instead of me winning, he got 11 thopters which he made into 4/4s with Brudiclad and then with all my blockers, I exactly died to the last thopter token. Neither of us won the game, but I think I’m going to remember the play for a long time. I even made an Eluge deck afterwards that plays all of the silly high mana value counter spells to make my own hype moments like that in the future!
@@jonathanrichman2330 that's interesting! So your solution to the salt would be to play higher cost removal that adds interaction or does something neat? I'll have to look into that more, thanks for the ideas 😄
@ the nice part about niche removal spells is that they are usually super cheap since they were made for an old limited format! Like in my poison/proliferate deck, I use two counterspells that only work if the target is poisoned and I use Glen Elendra Archmage as a repeatable counterspell since I can give her +1/+1 counters to remove the -1/-1 counter so I can keep sacrificing her to stop really scary noncreature spells. I made a $50 budget Vishgraz deck with the theme of blinking. So some of the removal spells I chose are: Acidic Slime, Reclamation Sage, Knight of the Autumn, and Ravenous Chupacabra. The idea is that just getting the effect once is great, but occasionally being able to flicker them to remove another target is amazing! Modal spells like Knight of the Autumn are awesome since if I need to remove a pesky artifact or enchantment, I can do that on the first enters the battlefield, but if I need life gain or just want a bigger creature, I can choose the modes later! So modal removal spells that can also further your own game plan or take out a scary target are awesome spells to add to your deck!
Personally I find the combination of natural tangents from pre selected topics to be beneficial as it helps to flesh out the personalities and views on the game. Also second time shout out to niv mizzet supreme. Also Mald was handed the opportunity to capitalize on the fan fiction bit
"cut it mid se-"
Genius
“We thought you were a react creator.”
Maldhound: “I am a react creator, or rather, a react creator as they were meant to be.”
100% that Niv fanfic involves multiple Niv-mizzets and they’re all hot to go
My two favorite mtg content creators in one podcast. Can't wait to listen to this on my way home!
My favorite part of this episode was when Maldhound said “it’s malding time” and malded all over everyone
So one of my favorite decks is narset enlightened master, but I don’t play the infinite turn loops. It’s a whole deck revolving around possibility storm and super friends, and artifacts. But it locks people out and shuts down control decks. I love it. 😂😂😂
Personally like the more structured episodes, or at the very least a specific topic that the group can chew on for an extended period of time.
I’m a simple woman. I see Maldhound, I click.
(Genuinely a wonderful episode, glad to see more.)
That outro was gold btw
I had no idea Snail was on another channel! Neat!
This is a great discussion. And I listened to it while doing laundry!
Adding Slicer and/or Alexios are good ways to make Mogis better due to the fact they can’t be sacrificed and are good damaging threats.
Commander content sucks, but I LOVE watching 3 hours of Andrea mengucci turbofog pauper
The duality of a magic player
Question Zone: What do you guys do for work, and it paid more, would you buy more expensive cards?
Also, I absolutely loved your Guest's point on modern Commander being closer to a board game night to a lot of the newer players. That feels like it 100% nailed the vibe to me of a lot of playgroups I see right now.
Looking forward to next week's fanfic episode
I am a believer in Richard from MTG goldfish, he actually plays a lot of removal but it's board wipes and land based affects, the more I play commander the stronger it feels. I genuinely think his more competitive decks would beat most of the hosts ones
46:07 I can’t speak to games content creators have, but I can speak to games that I’ve played. And amongst friends we bm each other. Armageddon, we play Tergrid. Etc. We even let a player use dockside bc we’re friends and who cares? But online when I try to get in a game of Spelltable. Half the time it’s a big baby crying and ruining the game for everyone because that person got interacted with. I play decks that run 20-ish pieces of interaction (removal, wipes, protection, recursion). So i’m usually the one that says “no” to players popping off and getting ahead. That’s usually when the b*tching and moaning starts, “why are you targeting ME. Why don’t you target someone else’s thing? I’m NOT the threat.” For that reason I think OTHER players don’t run interaction bc there’s negative reinforcement for players to not run interaction and instead play more explosive cards that advance their boards because it’s more fun and leads to less “feel bads” and less annoying people crying over a literal card game. That’s my take. I don’t think it’s just players seeing content creators popping off and seeing fun plays being made. It’s more they don’t like feeling bad or hear someone complaining over a Generous Gift being played.
"Play more explosive cards that advance their boards because it's more fun... " I feel like you literally explained why people don't play interaction right here. I am definitely someone that doesn't run as much interaction so I would be in the camp that you're talking about and I have to say as someone from that group yeah I definitely would not want to play against someone that has 20 pieces of interaction in their deck. It was mentioned in the video but a lot of people don't get to play a ton of games of magic and so they like to be able to do the thing their deck does. Obviously, I don't think people should be rude or anything to people that play a bunch of interaction, But I certainly wouldn't sit at the table for another round of magic with you. I think that if one fifth of your deck is interaction, then at that point a sub genre of your deck is basically not allowing other people to play their decks. And yeah that annoys people. So yeah I feel like you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. On one hand you want to play interaction and take the game seriously and you want a bunch of strangers to be cool with that. And that's just not an option. You can control that in your personal playgroup where it seems like you get to play all the cards that you want, but just like people that don't like interaction can't control what other people do, you as someone who likes a lot of interaction can't control how other people feel about interaction.
@@BigBosssette So, a) i defined interaction as both PROTECTION, RECURSION, AND REMOVAL and WIPES all in the same category. So 1/5 of the deck being stuff that does something other than directly influence your gameplan doesn’t seem too far-fetched to me. B) you’re 100% entitled to your opinion that you wouldn’t have fun at a table with me, but i believe Magic is Magic BECAUSE you CAN interact with others. Making EDH into a race of who can get off the their strategy the fastest instead of balanced decks ready for anything and everything seems extremely boring and I PERSONALLY wouldn’t want to be playing against players like yourself. And im entitled to that opinion.
C) ESPECIALLY IF YOU ONLY HAVE VERY LITTLE TIME TO PLAY MAGIC, i would include MORE INTERACTION. Why? So i can play the game. Someone out there is going to have a Dranith Magistrate that’s going to lock out my commander. So i need removal. Someone is going to board wipe, so I need protection. Someone is going to blow up my stuff, so i need recursion. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have these basic necessities in your deck and i don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect you to be able to potentially play around it. I interact with you, you interact with me. Just like this comment. Or would you rather you scream into the void and no one to hear it? EDH is a social game BECAUSE its interactive. You CAN politic, you CAN make deals. Interacting with your opponent(s) is a dialogue. It’s a back and forth. I expect you to stop me. And i expect you to have things I want to stop. If you like the game to be 4 separate instances of Goldfishing (playing by your self) then go ahead and do so. But i think that’s just a sad way to be.
Yep. That's fair. And I find your way of playing a sad way to be. I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion. I just think that for every person who you you say is being a cry baby there are very aggressive people like you that think your way of playing is best. And people think that is equally vibe ruining and unfun to play against. I think you paint your opposition as the only kind of people that are annoying to play with at the table when people that play like you can also be unfun to play against given peoples tastes. I don't think interaction makes magic magic because many card games do this in different ways. I don't think you are playing TRUE magic any more or less than I'm playing magic. But comments from people who like to play like you seem to express that. That your way of playing is right and everyone else's is wrong. It is even expressed in this video of all the times people say "you can play how you want but..." And then basically advise people to play the game the way they think it should be played. We will obviously never see the game the same way or see what is fun the same way. The conversation just seems to be very one sided.
I think I saw an example of main screen commander content done by Big Deck Energy. Granted it was shock collar commander, but it required more attention to detail from the viewer to understand the extra bit. And if you understand the ins and outs of triggers and rules, it's that much more satisfying to feel the tension of "will they remember that trigger."
Interesting talk about the different metas. Something I realized over time that my LGS' meta is primarily driven by very content creator-inspired games, which brings a ton of issues when I sit with a responsible deck that has more than one counterspell and two removals (the average I see there).
It is so normal for me to see someone play decks that ramp and draw cards into oblivion, but rarely manage to win effectively, or fold over to a single piece of interaction played correctly. Meanwhile I usually get side glances on any stormy deck that goes from zero to a million without playing any super well known card or without a lot of board presence
On the topic of Magic becoming first screen content: Card Market does it. Their process of "interviews" in the middle of games helps a ton making interactive gameplay really matter
Glad to welcome the 4th permanent member of the podcast Mald! Lol
I think your section about the difference in playgroups was quite interesting! I'm part of the group that rarely gets games of commander (sometimes zero a month) and so, when they do happen, the most important thing for me is to have everyone play the game.
Our playgroup even enables this by allowing people to take as many free mulligans as they want (though we give people crap past mulligan three). Stax and full-on control are soft banned? In that those decks don't show up but are completely fine.
But I and one of the friends in that group like playing very competitive Magic, where control, stax, aggro, and combo are all on the table. And since our commander games are much less intense and lean towards midrange-y value, we decided to just play modern/pioneer/canlander with each other.
I will note that our commander games are interactive; everyone is playing boardwipes, targeted removal, graveyard hate, protection, and counterspells. Not nearly as much as a cEDH deck, of course, but it's there.
This Maldhound guy seems very interesting.
I wonder what he thinks of which commander can and can't "get it"?
Elk is giving me the "why are you playing this" eyes
Great guest and fun pod, keep it up fellas!
1:11:11 oh hey look funny timestamp, but currently my 7 favorite decks out of my 20 or so, are my 5 mono color decks (Gaffer life gain, Arcanis Omniscience, Drivnod big death triggers, MH3 Ashling mono red control, and Kosei Primal Surge), my Zhulodok colorless deck, and a 3 color Marneus Calgar clue deck that I could have absolutely made into a 4 color deck, in order to add all the juicy deep clue sea green clue generator cards, but cutting back to 3 colors evolved that deck into a secret commander Tezzeret, Master at the Bridge deck, where I try to play tezzeret out to dome everyone for 20+ damage.
The mono color decks are really fun to build, I took apart my mono color decks to make the current 5, but I think at some point I might have more than 1 of each mono color deck kept together, the previous five were delney (as elk said, card advantage isn't so hard, I remember a game against a mono blue deck and a Greensleeves deck, and at one point I had more lands than the greensleeves player, and had a thinner library than the mono blue player.), Azami (a rediscovery of how busted wizards are, was semi-competitive), Sheoldred // The True Scriptures (tried to do all graveyard stuff, mill, reanimate, mass reanimate, cares about cards being milled, cares about cards in graveyard etc.), Calamity (This deck was fun but was like playing with an unloaded gun in the command zone, and sometimes you just didn't draw any bullets.), and Kodama/Gilanra (manually storm out and put the deck onto the battlefield).
Would love to see Deck Driver as a guest in the future! Your styles of content are like peas in a pod.
blighted woodland fits well in oops all explosive veg and teaches green players how to hold mana up
HE MENTIONED RADHA LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOO
Question Zone: What is your opinion on light staxx that incentivizes interaction, things like Ethersworn Canonist, deafening silence, Charitable Levy and Stone of Erech. Basically anything that limits options while not being desolation.
You guys talking about Fiend hunter loops reminded me of one game I played, years ago when Lorwyn was standard, it was an elemental aggro deck, so "champion a creature" was relevant. I can't remember what I was playing against but I was losing, and didn't want a loss on my record, so I set up a 3 creature "champion a creature" loop with no other targets. We had to call over a judge because my opponent didn't understand why the game was a draw.
Blighted woodland is fun in patron of the orochi cause lands entering tapped mean absolutely nothing to them
Uhhh... can you trust Politicians? 🤘🦁🤘
You had me at “asmongold lookalikes”
Luuuuul
I made a 180-card cube out of the Foundations starter collect and took out goblin negotiation and I think you’ve convinced me to put it back in.
Just saying Mald, I would watch you make more "reaction" content about gameplay clips framed as a sports commentator. Draw on the screen with the yellow lines and circles like you're watching NFL replays, and act like the smallest things are hugely exciting.
Yes I think this would be hilarious and somewhat innovative
My Mogis slug deck also has some troubles, but imo, he’s fantastic in Neegan as it helps get more damage around or I get treasures.
I haven't had a chance to watch just yet but I wanna get this off my chest. I think it's sus that I never see the mega popular commander folks use board wipes 😮
I don’t watch enough to make that observation but that is a great point if true
@@thetrinketmage and now that I'm listening, you guys covered it perfectly 🤺
So the moral of the story is that your expectations matter for how you enjoy what you play.
Trinket Mage, when are you releasing your fursona to the public? We just just leave it at Elk, Snail, Wolf and... Cute chibi Admech.
I would love a commander gameplay vid between you four, using decks that are very much *not* great for content = )
ALL THE MAGIC RUclipsRS! 😂
In defense of Richard - Up to you if you believe it or not, but he maintains (according to their podcasts) that his playstyle and approach to commander works even better outside of the Clash meta. In personally have adopted his approach and it works exceptionally well imo. Additionally, their ban list does ban some fast mana stuff, but the most recent bans were Field of the Dead and Glacial Chasm which are two Richard staples.
This is the dream combo
This is something to look forward too!!!