As he hears the words "minions secret lair" for the first time, half a decade of Magic community complaints click into place in Rarran's head. Finally, it all makes sense.
10:46 Something important to point out for Archmage of Runes is that the mana reduction only discounts generic mana costs of your instants and sorceries. You still have to pay your colored mana requirements and can't chain free spells like you can with auctioneer.
Yeah, I was thinking exactly that. If it could discount the coloured mana, then I'd expect there to be a way to do something cool with it. But because it can't, and thus can't reduce things to zero, there's just no way I can see it working for the nuts turn. And the "value" turn with it just doesn't look very good.
@dectilon Spells with colorless requirements specifically (i.e. warping wail 1◇) need a colorless source that can't be reduced by the generic reduction effect.
Yes, he was very clearly imagining playing it on T5, then casting Opt, Boltwave, Boltwave, Opt, etc. etc. into winning the game or nearly winning it. That said, who knows if within 5 years we'll see a 4-mana creature with the text "Noncreature spells you cast cost X to cast, where X is that spell's mana value."
I’d love to see rarran as a full-time mtg creator. Ik it might not be feasible since he prob has a lot of hearthstone followers, but love his personality and great to see him engaging with this game.
As someone who’s played hearthstone before, a huge difference between mana reduction type effects in hearthstone and magic is that you usually can’t reduce things to 0 in magic, because of the mana pips.
The funny thing about Demonic Pact/Offering is that the general concept of that combo is one of the most iconic decks in the history of magic called "Trix", which relied on a combination of Illusions of Grandeur (a four mana enchantment where you gain 20 life when it comes into play, and when it leaves play, you lose 20 life, with a cumulative upkeep cost of 2) and Donate (which just is a blue version of the offering for the same cost). But Rarran's analysis is spot on. The difference with Trix was that the 20 life from Illusions basically puts you completely out of reach of damage on the turn you play it, and you can Donate it immediately on the following turn (rather than it needing to survive for 4 turns) to put your opponent in a position where they need to immediately pay 4 mana on upkeep (because it ticked up once on your turn 5 already) with that increasing by 2 each turn, while trying to actually kill the opponent with basically no mana and +20 life. One of the all-time GOATs of Magic.
Demonic Pact has one other thing going for it though. While it should raise every alarm bell possible and several impossible ones to boot...it kinda doesn't. It's an anti-target. Opponents hate targeting this card because they think it helps you and end up losing to a double discard + removal even if you don't have Mesa Falcon with upside or Donate Kitty in play. But standard is entirely too fast to do that with any measure of consistency.
I think Rarran misunderstood Archmage of Runes. Just because a spell costs 1 less to cast, does not mean you can cast one mana spells for free. Archmage only reduces the generic mana cost but basically all spells have at least one colored mana. So even with 10 Archmages, you probably will not go infinite.
This is what my friends learnt when making spell slinging decks. Reduceing costs by 1 or 2 sounds great, but when every spell in the deck is a cheap red or blue instant you're not really saving a whole lot since u gotta still pay the colored pips
I think when Rarran evaluates creatures, he still kinda thinks of them like your opponent can attack them with their own creatures. If any 2 power dude could run straight into Kiora’s face to remove her before she attacks like in Hearthstone, she’d be a lot less intimidating and the 2 toughness would be more likely to get her killed before she can swing. Similarly with the archmage, I think he’s imagining that reducing the cost of instants and sorceries by 1 can get you free spells, when in practice it doesn’t in Standard at all and is unlikely to even with five years of releases.
I feel like the big thing that wasn't explained is that draw two discard some cards is playable on its own in occulus. Your graveyard is a second hand and it helps you dump your threats, so it's functionally card advantage, and if it happens to make the octopus you win, so it's also a premium removal magnet.
Yeah I think he missed that you actually only need 5 cards in graveyard since Kiora discards 2 automatically. Ultimately I agree with their analysis that it just makes an already good deck slightly better. It's not like the deck that runs Oculus and Haughty Djinn desperately needs another 3 drop creature...
Okay, as someone that plays a lot of really niche strategies I have to clarify, with an effect like Herald of Eternal Dawn on the field, your life actually goes into the negatives, Phyrexian Unlife replaces the damage that would be dealt when you are at 0 with poison counters which might be where the confusion stems from.
48:30 A lil bit of correction, even if Harmless Offering is an instant or can be played at instant speed (due to some effects e.g. Vedalken Orrery) once you've chosen a mode you will be tagged as the mode 'owner'. You cant choose to 'lose the game' and offered the pact expecting your opponent to lose. Saying it doesn't work because its a sorcery doesnt mean a thing and will only confuse people.
When Rarran asked at 19:21 if a 1 mana Bob that doesn't hurt you when it draws you a card would see play in standard and CGB had to think a bit before saying "yes", I lost it a bit :D Crazy how the game has evolved over the years
Yeah I mean the concept is just a bit more absurd in magic because you can just never let it be in combat. Hearthstone that card is balanced around the fact that you can't really stop it from dying.
the game has gone a long way but cgb being at all hesitant to say that card wouldn't be completely insane is just him not thinking about it correctly. caustic bronco is an amazing card right now and this hypothetical card would be double as good if we're talking dumb math, and it would probably be more than triple as good in practice and like he eventually said, easily bannable. in hs you just bop it with your creature, in magic it would basically be better ragavan.... so i don't think his hesitation says anything about how the game has changed lmao
I think Rarran didn't explain it well enough so CGB might have misunderstood it. CGB probably didn't realize it was an aura effect that would trigger every turn as long as Peasant stayed on board.
The fact that you can choose what to block with and not to block makes so many mtg creatures so much better than most other card games. Like the fact that you can just choose not to block with Scooze till it's big instead of having it get smacked to death instantly matters so much.
In all card games that I could remember Spider-Man was an "small-stats-burst-effect"-guy, so yeah, I am sure he would be agro-man And I think Rarran slighly overestimated Giant-wizard because he forgot that this 1 mana discount couldn't discount colored mana (by default, atleast). So while you could put broken stuff with Apprentice/Radiance Elemental in HS, most of the time it would need to get to 0 mana through discounts that could be achived because if you have 1 mana spell you would, well, get 0 mana spell. But with Giant if you have B Opt, it wouldn't become 0 Opt. So if Giant could bring cost to 0 (or just cut color-cost in general) it would be a different story, because NOW you could dig through your deck or you would want to double them to sling big stuff for free and gain cards so you could sling more stuff.
My buddy pointed it out, and it annoys me now as well- but with Sire of Seven deaths- seven in the name, 7/7, ward 7, costs 7... has 6 syllables in the name. All they had to do was add a "The" in the beginning of the title and it would've been perfect!
alright so, according to rarran: koma > progenitus trample > unblockable ward > protection from everything making a couple tokens > winning the game in 2 hits god of TCG
I've seen content creators playing Kiora y various different decks, and it just works, if nothing else as an early threat and removal magnet while the deck works towards it's other win conditions.
Spider-Man 3MC (Red-Blue-Black) Legendary Creature - Human Flying, Reach. Witty Banter - Whenever an opponent plays a card, they must pay 1, if they do not, tap one permanent an opponent controls. 4/4.
*Human Spider ! Cmon what are we doing here? :D Tho the scary part is I could imagine that card exactly as you described it and I am already dying inside thinking about the inevitable "with great power comes great responsibility" flavoutext...
I am a huge Abyssal Harvester defender i think its severely underrated I've been playing it in mono black demons and I've won games straight up with just abyssal harvester and kill spells. I've beat Atraxa by killing it and then reanimating it. I've beat slasher by exiling it as it dies and then playing my own bloodletter. I think at its worst this card is an insane sideboard and I'd much rather have it over other graveyard hate.
I've been playing around with a creature based reanimator/cheating Rakdos pile and he's been holding his own alongside Archpriest of Shadows, Coffin Queen and Ancient Brass Dragon. Plus, his token stays if you lose him.
@ I’ve started to see it as just a 3 mana card that demands respect or else it could easily steal a game kinda like unstoppable slasher or even something like deep cavern bat
Yeeeeeees, I love this long content of rating cards. I def want some more tourney stuff. I feel like we barely touched that too. More more more!! *hits the like button*
For the second card, I think Rarran was more caught up on the first line of text. It’s good with things like Goblin Electromancer & Djinn. Just 5 mana is rough
If i'm playing Red, and need a Mana Sink, I'm just running Hired Claw and Rockface Village. This Kellan would have been amazing 10 years ago, but today, he sucks. Edit: I don't even play much red, but if you give me a 1 mana 2/1 that draws me an extra card every turn it survives, suddenly every deck I'm playing is splashing red.
Progenitus was played in elves in legacy but its been a few years since that was the case. It was played because you could cheat it into play with natural order, which is a 4 mana green spell that says sacrifice a creature, search your library for a green creature to put onto the battlefield. Its been very powercrept though
CGB I hope you know you could make this type of video with Cimooooooo and Rarren on just about any set or collection of cards and I would watch without hesitation. Love this content and I really love watching these guys slowly become better at evaluating a different game than their own.
"Kiora is bad, it doesn't affect the board when you play it" "Ohh I like Abyssal Harvester, a 3 mana do nothing with worse stats that doesn't even have an ETB effect"
I play mostly limited and what I like about Sire is that it's an incredible blocker, so it kind of had semi haste. If your opponent is going to kill you by attacking, this can block, get you seven lifelink health. It can even block flyers. And with vigilance unless the boardstate is crazy you can safely attack with it every turn while keeping up the amazing blocker. What mitigates its "semi haste" (in giving immediate value) is that the usefulness is still after your opponent has untapped and gotten to play at sorcery speed. Regarding green being bad without Llanowar Elves, see Golgari getting second at worlds and in general dominating that tournament.
For effects that prevent you from losing. You go into negative. So if you get dropped to -4, you need to heal 5 to return to 1 and survive if Herald or the source of the effect is removed.
I think that something rarran is forgetting when hes talking about evaluating it like a hearthstone card is that all magic cards immediately affect the board by just being a magic card and being able to block. Interaction on a opponents turn helps keep the power creep from blowing people out like hes used to in hearthstone
For Archmage of Runes, the big difference is in Hearthstone everything is generic mana which would make every 1 mana spell a free cycle. While in MTG almost every instant and sorcery has "cannot cost less than 1" due to the color requirement.
We've had a similar card to Urborg Scavengers in Hearthstone, called Corpsetaker. 4 mana 3/3, gain taunt, divine shield, lifesteal, windfury for each of those keywords present on minions in your deck. That was actually a really good minion, with the funny side effect that people put in really terrible cards like a 6 mana 4/5 in their deck to give Corpsetaker windfury. That being said, Corpsetaker was very much a card for midrange "pile of good stuff" decks, and Scavengers need some setup by discarding specific cards to do the same. I'm not sold.
Back when scavenging ooze was last in standard, i had a friend who ran it in his main deck because i was running dimir rogues. He would happily exile stuff from his own graveyard just to turn off the rogues. Definitely frustrating but not impossible to deal with
For Archmage of Runes the payoff Rarran is describing is a card with Storm that summons creatures or deals direct damage to your opponent. If they print that into standard gods help us all
Oh Rarran you have no idea. Played against a Progenitus edh deck. He set everything up; ramped and used up all his recources to play his commander by turn 6. "I play Progenitus." "Oh wow you have the mana?" "Yeah" "Huh. Any mana left over?" "No." "Mana tithe."
I fairly recently played against progenitus as well. Was a verry interesting pile of counterspells/protection alongside wipes prog is immune to and a couple fogs. Was a hillarious game
Rarran seems to be forgetting that Scavenging ooze could delete unkilliaxe and taunt boom bots from hydration station decks. I would play this card in EVERY deck.
31:37 the first thing I thought of when trying to evaluate this compared to Kiora was "how many creature cards can you put in your deck that are just better than an 8/8" And even for a reanimator deck, the answer isn't a big number. Add to that the fact that Abysal harvester can't get repeat reanimation very efficiently either and it just seems worse to me.
Abyssal Harvester is in that odd spot of being a really interesting body snatcher card, but needs a lot of support to make good. You cant rely on your opponent to have a card you'd want to copy, so you're hoping that you have enough luck digging on your turn to get the right things in the yard. Like this is a card that is the epitome of meh until the card support around it makes it broken. Also, if harvester had some type of mana sink effect that allowed you to fill the yard, then it might see some fringe play.
Sire of 7 deaths is an absolute banger in limited. If you can live long enough to cast it you basically win. I'm not sure rarran realizes how strong first strike is on something this strong, its effectively untradeable with in combat.
I think what rarran missed on the second card, the arch mage, is that he doesn’t understand that reducing the cost of most cantrips by 1 neutral mana doesn’t make them free since most cantrips require 1 COLORED mana. In hearthstone I think this card would be busted even at 6 or 7 mana, although I haven’t played hearthstone since the first two sets beyond classic were released. I barely remember Dr. Boom from when I tried to pick HS back up towards the end of college.
I think every time Rarren think about creature HS comparison, he think about creatures has to make impact on play because hearthstone opponent can just remove your board with existing minion, so they in some sense spend no other resource to remove it. But magic you choose blockers so a lot of time creature that needs untap to start giving value are not as bad.
Yall mentioned how having "preparation" in hearthstone allowed a simular card to the archmage to be viable... We do have Plot in standard right now. There is potential to plot a card like the discard 1 draw 2 card, then play this and cast for free to get immediate card advantage. Still probably too slow. But a neat build around idea.
I like this series, but i hate that Rarran gets to see the cards so much sooner than us lol. For 15-20 seconds, we just live in suspense as he is going crazy lol
I find it hilarious that Kibler fought for years for Hearthstone to get rid of the classic set to have a full rotating standard, only for mtg to go the opposite way. Oh well
Yes there's a new Pact deck that is VERY consistent, RB using the case that tutors Along with Beseech the Mirror giving them 8 tutor targets with an option for good old Demonic Tutor. Also has some status quo removal, and torch the tower to sacrifice it but that may not be the deck to beat. SOMEONE is going to find a better support system to make the deck competitive. That 19-4 deck might be worth a closer look. Perhaps it never will as enchantment removal is main-deckable but that Beseech the Mirror/Case of Skeletons tutor package is insanely useful so it might be more consistent than the slots that decks can afford to dedicate to it. Also I'm not a pro, so maybe I'm an idiot when it gives to meta solving lol But in BO3, I expect to see a deck emerge for competitive play.
@@Levi_the_Med they didnt butcher it, they just dont care about the western market for it. i have friends who still buy and play that shit. its good fun.
Progenitus is, as a Yu-Gi-Oh player, the coolest MTG card I've seen. I would play the hell out of it no matter how awful it might be. I'd win eventually.
Im glad these collabs have brought you into full podcast mode. Comment for algorithm purposes. Edit: going to try to cook something up with Archmage of Runes, ramp hard get it out t3 / t4, ramp more into doppelgang or some such
I am the type of viewer that neeeeeeeeeeds this kinda long form content for work. Your doing me a service.😊
Sameeeeeeee thank you for sharing in my need
For me it’s fantastic for sleep. This sort of stuff on loop and I may actually get some… after listening intently of course.
100%. My job is quite monotonous and I’m alone in the field all day. I could listen to people talk Magic all day and CBG x Rarran is perfect
Minor spelling mistake 💀
Same here!
The mask is starting to slip, CGB is revealing that he just likes talking to his friends about cards and doesn't need a plan to make it entertaining
Tbf thats exactly why i like these videos lol
That's always been my favorite part😂
As he hears the words "minions secret lair" for the first time, half a decade of Magic community complaints click into place in Rarran's head. Finally, it all makes sense.
I have not bought paper magic since invasion but i will seriously consider buying a minions secret lair
@@davidb4935the SpongeBob better be the closest we ever get to it.
@@obadijahparks no way i hope it opens the floodgates to the dumbest secret lairs the likes of which are incomprehensible
Koma's not a meatball, he's the spaghetti. He comes WITH meatballs. And he's a big long noodle
10:46 Something important to point out for Archmage of Runes is that the mana reduction only discounts generic mana costs of your instants and sorceries. You still have to pay your colored mana requirements and can't chain free spells like you can with auctioneer.
Have there ever been colorless instants? I know Eternal has a few.
Yup it is a horribly inefficient card, the secondary effect of the card draw is nice, but an extremely worse Thunderclap Drake, no thank you.
@@dectilon there are a few, either eldrazi related or lessons
Yeah, I was thinking exactly that. If it could discount the coloured mana, then I'd expect there to be a way to do something cool with it.
But because it can't, and thus can't reduce things to zero, there's just no way I can see it working for the nuts turn. And the "value" turn with it just doesn't look very good.
@dectilon Spells with colorless requirements specifically (i.e. warping wail 1◇) need a colorless source that can't be reduced by the generic reduction effect.
Rarran's hang up with Archmage of Runes is probably thinking that generic reduction would make something like Opt free
Yes, he was very clearly imagining playing it on T5, then casting Opt, Boltwave, Boltwave, Opt, etc. etc. into winning the game or nearly winning it. That said, who knows if within 5 years we'll see a 4-mana creature with the text "Noncreature spells you cast cost X to cast, where X is that spell's mana value."
Yeah I kept saying that to my screen. He's not thinking about how it's extremely difficult to remove the pip cost of spells.
100% yeah he's getting hearthstone brain here where cost is cost
I thought so too. Thank you for explaining that it doesn’t automatically make things free.
The other issue is that probably half your deck is lands, meaning it's much much easier to run out of spells unlike hearthstone.
We need a crossover with a Magic player, Hearthstone player, Yugioh player and Pokemon player battle it out in a tournament consisting of all 4 games
Each one wins their respective game, resulting in a dead tie
@@melephs_capto be fair, rarran has some chances in mtg if he locks in
@@melephs_cap bold of you to assume rarran would win anything
@@melephs_capit doesn’t have to be winner takes all, they could have coming in second or third worth something
@@melephs_cap you could let each one play anything but their own game, and than see who wins the most ones
I’d love to see rarran as a full-time mtg creator. Ik it might not be feasible since he prob has a lot of hearthstone followers, but love his personality and great to see him engaging with this game.
Also probably not going to happen since he _despises_ the land mechanic and is also lost in Bazaar.
57:44 Your life total doesn't stop at zero, you can go negative, you just don't lose as long as the angel is on your board.
Bingo.
As someone who’s played hearthstone before, a huge difference between mana reduction type effects in hearthstone and magic is that you usually can’t reduce things to 0 in magic, because of the mana pips.
The funny thing about Demonic Pact/Offering is that the general concept of that combo is one of the most iconic decks in the history of magic called "Trix", which relied on a combination of Illusions of Grandeur (a four mana enchantment where you gain 20 life when it comes into play, and when it leaves play, you lose 20 life, with a cumulative upkeep cost of 2) and Donate (which just is a blue version of the offering for the same cost). But Rarran's analysis is spot on. The difference with Trix was that the 20 life from Illusions basically puts you completely out of reach of damage on the turn you play it, and you can Donate it immediately on the following turn (rather than it needing to survive for 4 turns) to put your opponent in a position where they need to immediately pay 4 mana on upkeep (because it ticked up once on your turn 5 already) with that increasing by 2 each turn, while trying to actually kill the opponent with basically no mana and +20 life. One of the all-time GOATs of Magic.
Demonic Pact has one other thing going for it though. While it should raise every alarm bell possible and several impossible ones to boot...it kinda doesn't. It's an anti-target. Opponents hate targeting this card because they think it helps you and end up losing to a double discard + removal even if you don't have Mesa Falcon with upside or Donate Kitty in play. But standard is entirely too fast to do that with any measure of consistency.
I think Rarran misunderstood Archmage of Runes. Just because a spell costs 1 less to cast, does not mean you can cast one mana spells for free. Archmage only reduces the generic mana cost but basically all spells have at least one colored mana. So even with 10 Archmages, you probably will not go infinite.
This is what my friends learnt when making spell slinging decks. Reduceing costs by 1 or 2 sounds great, but when every spell in the deck is a cheap red or blue instant you're not really saving a whole lot since u gotta still pay the colored pips
Rarran sounds like such a storm player at heart, get this man some grapeshots
I think when Rarran evaluates creatures, he still kinda thinks of them like your opponent can attack them with their own creatures. If any 2 power dude could run straight into Kiora’s face to remove her before she attacks like in Hearthstone, she’d be a lot less intimidating and the 2 toughness would be more likely to get her killed before she can swing.
Similarly with the archmage, I think he’s imagining that reducing the cost of instants and sorceries by 1 can get you free spells, when in practice it doesn’t in Standard at all and is unlikely to even with five years of releases.
I feel like the big thing that wasn't explained is that draw two discard some cards is playable on its own in occulus. Your graveyard is a second hand and it helps you dump your threats, so it's functionally card advantage, and if it happens to make the octopus you win, so it's also a premium removal magnet.
Yeah I think he missed that you actually only need 5 cards in graveyard since Kiora discards 2 automatically. Ultimately I agree with their analysis that it just makes an already good deck slightly better. It's not like the deck that runs Oculus and Haughty Djinn desperately needs another 3 drop creature...
Okay, as someone that plays a lot of really niche strategies I have to clarify, with an effect like Herald of Eternal Dawn on the field, your life actually goes into the negatives, Phyrexian Unlife replaces the damage that would be dealt when you are at 0 with poison counters which might be where the confusion stems from.
Yeah, though even with that you need to be at or below 0 before it swaps to dealing poison.
48:30 A lil bit of correction, even if Harmless Offering is an instant or can be played at instant speed (due to some effects e.g. Vedalken Orrery) once you've chosen a mode you will be tagged as the mode 'owner'. You cant choose to 'lose the game' and offered the pact expecting your opponent to lose. Saying it doesn't work because its a sorcery doesnt mean a thing and will only confuse people.
When Rarran asked at 19:21 if a 1 mana Bob that doesn't hurt you when it draws you a card would see play in standard and CGB had to think a bit before saying "yes", I lost it a bit :D
Crazy how the game has evolved over the years
Yeah I mean the concept is just a bit more absurd in magic because you can just never let it be in combat. Hearthstone that card is balanced around the fact that you can't really stop it from dying.
the game has gone a long way but cgb being at all hesitant to say that card wouldn't be completely insane is just him not thinking about it correctly. caustic bronco is an amazing card right now and this hypothetical card would be double as good if we're talking dumb math, and it would probably be more than triple as good in practice and like he eventually said, easily bannable. in hs you just bop it with your creature, in magic it would basically be better ragavan.... so i don't think his hesitation says anything about how the game has changed lmao
I think Rarran didn't explain it well enough so CGB might have misunderstood it. CGB probably didn't realize it was an aura effect that would trigger every turn as long as Peasant stayed on board.
CGB: So a one mana 2/1 for one ?
Rarran, not phased: One mana 2/1 for one.
The fact that you can choose what to block with and not to block makes so many mtg creatures so much better than most other card games. Like the fact that you can just choose not to block with Scooze till it's big instead of having it get smacked to death instantly matters so much.
In all card games that I could remember Spider-Man was an "small-stats-burst-effect"-guy, so yeah, I am sure he would be agro-man
And I think Rarran slighly overestimated Giant-wizard because he forgot that this 1 mana discount couldn't discount colored mana (by default, atleast). So while you could put broken stuff with Apprentice/Radiance Elemental in HS, most of the time it would need to get to 0 mana through discounts that could be achived because if you have 1 mana spell you would, well, get 0 mana spell. But with Giant if you have B Opt, it wouldn't become 0 Opt.
So if Giant could bring cost to 0 (or just cut color-cost in general) it would be a different story, because NOW you could dig through your deck or you would want to double them to sling big stuff for free and gain cards so you could sling more stuff.
My buddy pointed it out, and it annoys me now as well- but with Sire of Seven deaths- seven in the name, 7/7, ward 7, costs 7... has 6 syllables in the name. All they had to do was add a "The" in the beginning of the title and it would've been perfect!
"The whole thing is its tail pretty much." Rarran discovers what snakes are.
I would like to see Rarran react to Void Winnower and other memey cards. WOTC commenting "Your opponents can't even" is too good.
Ashlizzle must live in Disney land as she had a really good win rate late 13-2 or sometime in bo3 with the sire+urborg combo
Yeh but sire wasn't even that good in that deck, for one Zetalpa and Atraxa were better.
alright so, according to rarran:
koma > progenitus
trample > unblockable
ward > protection from everything
making a couple tokens > winning the game in 2 hits
god of TCG
The extra 3 mana cost, color pip density, and immunity to reanimation effects make kind of a big difference.
I love your chemistry with Rarran. He's such a fun guy.
Love me some 1 drop budgeting discussion, wish they kept talking about it more
I really want to see Rarran's reaction to CGB getting mythic with Cat Pact
I've seen content creators playing Kiora y various different decks, and it just works, if nothing else as an early threat and removal magnet while the deck works towards it's other win conditions.
Spider-Man 3MC (Red-Blue-Black)
Legendary Creature - Human
Flying, Reach.
Witty Banter - Whenever an opponent plays a card, they must pay 1, if they do not, tap one permanent an opponent controls.
4/4.
*Human Spider ! Cmon what are we doing here? :D Tho the scary part is I could imagine that card exactly as you described it and I am already dying inside thinking about the inevitable "with great power comes great responsibility" flavoutext...
Reach for just in case it loses flying?
19:30 Robber of the Rich was basically a 2 mana version of this with extra steps and it was still a banger.
I am a huge Abyssal Harvester defender i think its severely underrated I've been playing it in mono black demons and I've won games straight up with just abyssal harvester and kill spells. I've beat Atraxa by killing it and then reanimating it. I've beat slasher by exiling it as it dies and then playing my own bloodletter. I think at its worst this card is an insane sideboard and I'd much rather have it over other graveyard hate.
I've been playing around with a creature based reanimator/cheating Rakdos pile and he's been holding his own alongside Archpriest of Shadows, Coffin Queen and Ancient Brass Dragon. Plus, his token stays if you lose him.
@ I’ve started to see it as just a 3 mana card that demands respect or else it could easily steal a game kinda like unstoppable slasher or even something like deep cavern bat
Yeeeeeees, I love this long content of rating cards. I def want some more tourney stuff. I feel like we barely touched that too. More more more!! *hits the like button*
For the second card, I think Rarran was more caught up on the first line of text. It’s good with things like Goblin Electromancer & Djinn. Just 5 mana is rough
I love how you both have such good chemistry together - the boyscout bit had me in stitches LMAO
"a bunch of keywords isnt enough"
Unkilliax:
The HS keywords though are sooo much more annoying though
I was looking for exactly this comment. My boy forgets quickly about zilliax. Guess too much bazaar
If this one taught me nothing else, I think Rarran might get a kick out of Spice's The Fortnite-ification of Magic
In hearthstone, you could attack down peasant and many hero powers cleared it. In magic it would almost always require a spell to kill.
I love how Mesa Falcon Guy mentioned he played against Crim's Demonic Pact. He just forgot to tell Rarran how that duel ended.
If i'm playing Red, and need a Mana Sink, I'm just running Hired Claw and Rockface Village. This Kellan would have been amazing 10 years ago, but today, he sucks.
Edit: I don't even play much red, but if you give me a 1 mana 2/1 that draws me an extra card every turn it survives, suddenly every deck I'm playing is splashing red.
Progenitus was played in elves in legacy but its been a few years since that was the case. It was played because you could cheat it into play with natural order, which is a 4 mana green spell that says sacrifice a creature, search your library for a green creature to put onto the battlefield. Its been very powercrept though
Yeah. Now you only really get Craterhoof Behemoth or Atraxa.
CGB I hope you know you could make this type of video with Cimooooooo and Rarren on just about any set or collection of cards and I would watch without hesitation. Love this content and I really love watching these guys slowly become better at evaluating a different game than their own.
"They know exactly what I'm going for here-"
I didn't even play when Jackal Pup was played, and even I knew what it was.
19:30 so better dark confidant? Yeah that is absolutely getting played.
Rarren wearing a Kurtis Connor shirt makes it even more of my youtube content crossover.
"Kiora is bad, it doesn't affect the board when you play it"
"Ohh I like Abyssal Harvester, a 3 mana do nothing with worse stats that doesn't even have an ETB effect"
I play mostly limited and what I like about Sire is that it's an incredible blocker, so it kind of had semi haste. If your opponent is going to kill you by attacking, this can block, get you seven lifelink health. It can even block flyers. And with vigilance unless the boardstate is crazy you can safely attack with it every turn while keeping up the amazing blocker. What mitigates its "semi haste" (in giving immediate value) is that the usefulness is still after your opponent has untapped and gotten to play at sorcery speed.
Regarding green being bad without Llanowar Elves, see Golgari getting second at worlds and in general dominating that tournament.
as someone who plays golgari, calling it green is generous. The green is mostly for moss wood dreadknight and enchantment hate.
Happy thanksgiving CGB and Rarran
I will forever ride the high of playing Foundations All-Access Constructed, and flashing in a Herald in response to Cat Pact
For effects that prevent you from losing. You go into negative. So if you get dropped to -4, you need to heal 5 to return to 1 and survive if Herald or the source of the effect is removed.
Always love when you collab with Rarran!
I think that something rarran is forgetting when hes talking about evaluating it like a hearthstone card is that all magic cards immediately affect the board by just being a magic card and being able to block. Interaction on a opponents turn helps keep the power creep from blowing people out like hes used to in hearthstone
I run herald of eternal dawn in my standard angel deck as a one of. It probably isn't great but its won more than a handful of games on its own.
New video!!!!! Just wanted to say I really love this colab videos man. Between Rarran’s purity and CGB’s assholeness magic is created
For Archmage of Runes, the big difference is in Hearthstone everything is generic mana which would make every 1 mana spell a free cycle. While in MTG almost every instant and sorcery has "cannot cost less than 1" due to the color requirement.
We've had a similar card to Urborg Scavengers in Hearthstone, called Corpsetaker.
4 mana 3/3, gain taunt, divine shield, lifesteal, windfury for each of those keywords present on minions in your deck. That was actually a really good minion, with the funny side effect that people put in really terrible cards like a 6 mana 4/5 in their deck to give Corpsetaker windfury.
That being said, Corpsetaker was very much a card for midrange "pile of good stuff" decks, and Scavengers need some setup by discarding specific cards to do the same. I'm not sold.
Back when scavenging ooze was last in standard, i had a friend who ran it in his main deck because i was running dimir rogues. He would happily exile stuff from his own graveyard just to turn off the rogues. Definitely frustrating but not impossible to deal with
For Archmage of Runes the payoff Rarran is describing is a card with Storm that summons creatures or deals direct damage to your opponent. If they print that into standard gods help us all
Oh Rarran you have no idea. Played against a Progenitus edh deck. He set everything up; ramped and used up all his recources to play his commander by turn 6.
"I play Progenitus."
"Oh wow you have the mana?"
"Yeah"
"Huh. Any mana left over?"
"No."
"Mana tithe."
I fairly recently played against progenitus as well. Was a verry interesting pile of counterspells/protection alongside wipes prog is immune to and a couple fogs. Was a hillarious game
I love my baby progen. He sits in my morophon mutate commander deck waiting to slap some people around
Rarran is so kind and handsome whenever he’s on cgb’s videos
Kiora is also great to flip up off of an Occulus. Also Kiora is played in some UB Frog decks in Modern.
Progenitus was played in Modern Infect briefly before Blazing Shoal was banned.
21:00 Kinda feels like he's describing a better version of Bob there
Kiora's ability to shove things into your graveyard is pretty good as well, unlike in Hearthstone where those cards are just gone.
If i don't get more videos with Rarran, I'm going to shit my pants.
"In hearthstone a bunch of key words isn't enough"
Zillix entered the chat
Immediate board impact
Rarran seems to be forgetting that Scavenging ooze could delete unkilliaxe and taunt boom bots from hydration station decks. I would play this card in EVERY deck.
Archmage of Runes has the same downside as many Blue storm-y cards. That draw is compulsory so you can very quickly deck yourself out.
Still not quite Number 5 by my count! But happy to see more Podcast
As a hydra fanatic, I want that new Progenitus art soooo badly.
I love the collab between thesd two ❤
31:37 the first thing I thought of when trying to evaluate this compared to Kiora was "how many creature cards can you put in your deck that are just better than an 8/8" And even for a reanimator deck, the answer isn't a big number. Add to that the fact that Abysal harvester can't get repeat reanimation very efficiently either and it just seems worse to me.
Raren is learning, the best removal is player removal
progenitus actually helped me win most of my best of one matches atraxa an progenitus on one battlefield usually makes the opponent scoop :)
I feel like raran would LOVE a hot potato kind of commander deck 😂.
Someone has to build him a list for when he plays his next game.
Abyssal Harvester is in that odd spot of being a really interesting body snatcher card, but needs a lot of support to make good. You cant rely on your opponent to have a card you'd want to copy, so you're hoping that you have enough luck digging on your turn to get the right things in the yard. Like this is a card that is the epitome of meh until the card support around it makes it broken.
Also, if harvester had some type of mana sink effect that allowed you to fill the yard, then it might see some fringe play.
Sire of 7 deaths is an absolute banger in limited. If you can live long enough to cast it you basically win. I'm not sure rarran realizes how strong first strike is on something this strong, its effectively untradeable with in combat.
I think what rarran missed on the second card, the arch mage, is that he doesn’t understand that reducing the cost of most cantrips by 1 neutral mana doesn’t make them free since most cantrips require 1 COLORED mana. In hearthstone I think this card would be busted even at 6 or 7 mana, although I haven’t played hearthstone since the first two sets beyond classic were released. I barely remember Dr. Boom from when I tried to pick HS back up towards the end of college.
I think every time Rarren think about creature HS comparison, he think about creatures has to make impact on play because hearthstone opponent can just remove your board with existing minion, so they in some sense spend no other resource to remove it. But magic you choose blockers so a lot of time creature that needs untap to start giving value are not as bad.
Yall mentioned how having "preparation" in hearthstone allowed a simular card to the archmage to be viable...
We do have Plot in standard right now. There is potential to plot a card like the discard 1 draw 2 card, then play this and cast for free to get immediate card advantage.
Still probably too slow. But a neat build around idea.
12:00 Rarran is asking for a Black Lotus 😂
With the Platinum Angel reference you should read Raran the Platinum Angel green text meme
My first thought with chandra is that she goes infinite with any creature that blinks when it enters.
28:27 oh hey its Mordekaiser, Rarran is sure to get this one right....
I like this series, but i hate that Rarran gets to see the cards so much sooner than us lol. For 15-20 seconds, we just live in suspense as he is going crazy lol
I hope one day we can get a Rarran vs Cimoooooooo game of Magic. That would be incredible.
I find it hilarious that Kibler fought for years for Hearthstone to get rid of the classic set to have a full rotating standard, only for mtg to go the opposite way. Oh well
It's not quite 1-to-1 but you could say that First Strike has similar value to Immune While Attacking and Vigilance+Reach has similar value to Taunt.
Shoulda shown him fleshgorger instead of scavengers. If fleshgorger can see play it’s arguable that sire can
The issue with Archmage of Runes is that it's a storm card, but is too expensive to be played in a storm deck.
Yes there's a new Pact deck that is VERY consistent, RB using the case that tutors Along with Beseech the Mirror giving them 8 tutor targets with an option for good old Demonic Tutor. Also has some status quo removal, and torch the tower to sacrifice it but that may not be the deck to beat.
SOMEONE is going to find a better support system to make the deck competitive. That 19-4 deck might be worth a closer look.
Perhaps it never will as enchantment removal is main-deckable but that Beseech the Mirror/Case of Skeletons tutor package is insanely useful so it might be more consistent than the slots that decks can afford to dedicate to it.
Also I'm not a pro, so maybe I'm an idiot when it gives to meta solving lol
But in BO3, I expect to see a deck emerge for competitive play.
Progenitus new art is by a duel masters artist (also made by wotc)
Daamn, i miss duel masters so much
Why did they butchered it...😢
@@Levi_the_Medits still being made in japan and is quite popular
@@Levi_the_Med they didnt butcher it, they just dont care about the western market for it. i have friends who still buy and play that shit. its good fun.
The video we were all waiting for
Progenitus is, as a Yu-Gi-Oh player, the coolest MTG card I've seen. I would play the hell out of it no matter how awful it might be. I'd win eventually.
Koma's art reminds me of the bramble levels in the Donkey Kong Country games. Is that just me?
35:04 oh my god that IS Mike Wazowski but the lower half of its face is like Sulley's
26:07 token is legendary
Yes, but they'd also just talked about these creatures being removal magnets. So if they removed the octopus, you make a new one. That's how it works.
Im glad these collabs have brought you into full podcast mode. Comment for algorithm purposes.
Edit: going to try to cook something up with Archmage of Runes, ramp hard get it out t3 / t4, ramp more into doppelgang or some such