For me the saltiest thing is when some one has a hate boner specifically for one player regardless of how behind, regardless of what they have or draw, regardless of what other people are doing.
Nothing makes me more angry than when i make a mistake turn 1, making an enemy by dealing one to a player, then that player spends the entire game wiping my board and countering everything i do. I get that i angered u and i get hit on the swingback, but its a lil ridiculous to specifically target me for 12 turns
Those are the type of people I just refuse to play with. Same type of people who deny that they’re ahead and then get mad when you interact with their board as if they weren’t a threat. When I’m winning, I’ll jokingly say nah I’m not the problem. When people rightfully nuke me, I go yeah that’s fair because I was threatening a win. Some people are beyond reason or just wear blinders to what’s around them
Funny thing about Arahbo Roar of the World, I genuinely think Arahbo the First Fang is a better commander. A flat +1/+1 for all cats + a 1/1 (so effectively a 2/2) cat token every time a nontoken cat enters the field is great. Most cats in this set are low cost whites, so it's not like green is essential, and a lot of them have their own buffs to cats entering the field. Cat tribal is a crazy good deck this set
I loved when one of my low powered pod friends built Arabho and suddenly everyone discovered that aggro exists and it’s fun and scary for the midrangey value piles decks 🥳
T-Pro is far and away the strongest white card in non-cEDH. Basically reads as a 3-mana instant speed Time Walk in that it virtually guarantees that you will get to untap and take another turn with your entire board no matter what your opponents are doing. It wins so many games, especially those where no other card in your deck could have possibly saved you.
I worked as a screener during covid for my local hospital and was told I could do anything I wanted while there were no patients in front of me so I just sat there and did hours upon hours of dnd world building for my players.
I tried Trinket's advice about the self fulfilling salt during teaching the newest player I've brought into the game. His second game I played mono W stax against him and played Winter Orb. He thought it was hilarious at first and quickly got irritated. It's a fine line 😂
It's good that you brought up stuff regarding how a veteran behaves at the table having alot more weight to a newbie, because I feel like that doesn't get talked about nearly enough when discussing etiquette among players. Not that you need to make yourself into this moral golden standard or anything, but rather just adjust your attitude in order to cultivate an experience that player will want to return to. Among friends you've been playing with for years, it's fine to roll your eyes or pour some salt over super-staples, but don't shoulder the burden of guilt onto a new player, that just wanted to do a strong play. You have to remember that when it's like someone's first game, you should be doing everything you can to make it an experience that you yourself would have wanted as a first time. Not to say you need to throw the match or team up to make sure he wins, but just making sure the energy at the table is friendly and fun, so that he'll want to ever touch the game again. I also don't think rule 0 discussions belong to a game with a first-timer. Rule 0 is something that requires knowledge of the game to make any informed decisions, so any newbies is going to feel very excluded when decisions about the game are being made without him being able to input much. As far as house rules are concerned, if a person really feels so inclined to have his own rules set up for that, you should just consider making a cube instead. Cubes are the be-all of curated experiences that allow you to transform aspects of Magic to your liking. Even with just the base concept of a draftable list made by yourself, you already have so much control over cultivating the kind of play-experience that you are specifically looking for. From there, you can do anything you want with it. Maybe your playgroup will raise an eyebrow if you came to them with the idea of making a "Shared deck Commander game", where everyone mashes all their decks together into a single deck you play. However, if you go out of your way to build a cube and set rules designed to build a shared deck, to which everyone brings a commander to play with, it's alot easier to sell the concept, because there's a certain expectation when coming to a cube, both an acceptance of these odd terms and a trust, that the experience has been crafted to accomodate the added rules. Instead of walking to The Gamer's Wharf and having to navigate this ludicrous list of extra rules to see if I can even play my decks there, I'd much rather the store had a cube curated to their liking and I'll play with that. Instead of being told "no" to everything, I instead am given the feeling, that I'm getting a choice to play with something unique (and also provided the game-pieces to play how they clearly want me to helps as well).
The most important thing about commander is that it’s a social format and you want to respect people’s time. Everyone is at the table to have a good time. When someone is there to play commander and you make their game an unfun non-game. Don’t be surprised if they don’t want to play with you anymore.
I'm sooo sad that Farewell is so frowned upon. I've cut it from most of my decks given how awful it can make games, but then nearly every game I'm just watching every ridiculous simic deck go crazy and I'm just wishing for a Farewell because literally nothing else will help
Simic isn't stopped by Farewell like you think it is. Simic is best at drawing cards and playing lands, so having a ton of cards in hand and lots of lands on the battlefield is a frequent boardstate for any simic deck. Farewell doesn't do anything to cards in hand or lands, so oftentimes, the simic player is by far in the best position to rebuild after a farewell. There are better answers to simic, often stax is a pretty good answer that's also overhated.
It's not white, but I've grown to really like River's Rebuke instead of Farewell. Almost every game-state that I've needed a Farewell to save the game, a River's Rebuke does so much better. And the best part is, the entire table will help out since you're targeting the Archenemy.
There's lots of other board wipes that can be more synergistic and can be used with less of a tempo investment. Being able to board wipe and THEN play another spell afterwards is a bigger deal than it might seem. That's why Vanquish the Horde is so good
The Yugoslavia comment hit me in the stomach, and I am beyond impressed how Snail took the comment. Maybe I am a different generation, growing up in Europe with refugees and families who witnessed genocide during the breakup in the 1990s. The summer of 1995 saw the Srebrenica Massacre and the release of Ice Age.
Aphelia makes me sad. I love gorgons as a mythical creature and wish they would go down more of the petrification route vs the killing route. We already have the 1 gorgon that puts petrification counters on creatures and I love running that card.
I think of you guys primarily as commander RUclipsrs, but i think it would be cool to do an episode each about the other formats and how you guys and other commander players interact with those formats
I just want to bring attention to the idea that there are times where you can't just deal with an enchantment and it doesn't mean your deck is built poorly. It makes a lot of sense until you're playing blue/black and you have 2 options that are reasonable out of every card ever made and then a handful of the least efficient, least on-theme removal every conceived
The issue with Humility is that it's essentially more annoying boardwipe. It either grinds games to a halt or shuts down many creature-based strategies. More importantly, commander to many is about playing cool cards. Humility is just a middle-finger to that - "your cool creatures are now just vanilla 1/1s".
The weirdest thing I see now a days is people wanting to play with KOS commanders and getting very mad when people do… They expect us to let them do the thing that wins them the game just because it’s their commander… No it dies.
i really liked the side Tangents it feels way more organic and not railroady. sure its good to have a general theme to an episode but this was really fun.
34:13 i agree with Elk. i hate how players end up using Farewell. Each and every time it’s the play that’s done nothing all game and all of a sudden they toss down a farewell for all modes and now everyone is down in the dirt with them. Yes we need board wipes in edh, yes we need exile effects thanks to prolific indestructible effects, and yes this CAN be one-sided. But even when it CAN be one-sided, it’s never that. It’s always all modes and the game goes on for an additional hour instead of ending in the next two turns. The worst part is that there’s very little counter play, you’re almost forced to play blue or white just to avoid it. Both either phase out OR counter it. 3/5 colors cannot deal with that board wipe. So as a fellow golgari player (my most played deck is g/w, but i also have made 3 golgari decks) i know that it’s just a matter of time until the white player casts farewell because they’re a little behind. It’s gross. It ONLY adds time to games. There’s several one-sided wipes in white. Pick another one. I don’t run it because i think it sucks. I like using my own grave after i use something to wipe the board, i like my death triggers, i like having one-sided, cheaper wipes like •the battle of bywater• or •hour of reckoning•
If you see a white player sandbagging cards it's a pretty good indicator they have a Farewell. There are play patterns you can use to tilt things back into your favor like sandbagging your own cards, ensuring your hand is full, holding your commander, etc.
@ the issue is mostly that the person casting the wipe is no closer to winning than before. That’s usually the issue. And again, i think board wipes should propel you to a win not just stax the board bc you’re behind.
I think it has to do with the fact that sometimes if you get a shit draw and all you've got is a farewell to even things out, then players feel forced to do all modes (including the graveyard removal) to try and even things out. If there were any one thing I'd fix with farewell, its the graveyard removal effect. Exiling all nonland permanents is fine considering how damn powerful some boardstates get (looking at you simic) but if it couldn't exile graveyards then at least counterplay could theoretically be graveyard use and clever get arounds, like sacrificing your board to put it in the graveyard instead. You could do something creative like plunge into darkness in response to farewell, etc. But unfortunately Farewell with no real alternatives that don't remove the graveyard means we can't have nice things. Golgari has the misfortune of just not having an answer to Farewell and it sucks. My only answer with my Mycotyrant golgari deck is to make any white players dead ASAP and that's just not fun for them or me.
@@Magnet977 same, i have 2 goglari aggro decks and i need to just get rid of the white player with the most money each time. The second i see shocks and fetches in white, you’re my number one target.
So I really like this channel and the takes that I hear on it. I agree with a lot of things like “play more interaction/removal” etc. I am getting slightly tired of hearing “make decks without creatures.” That is not really a sufficient argument for or against any card or strategy. I believe Elk pointed this out on a previous podcast, but it comes up often. Great podcast as usual, looking forward to the next!
Trinket: "The newest edition is phenomenal, it's the most fun-" Me: "What the fuck is this man talking about." Trinket: "I started in 9th, or rather, I played a bit of 8th" Me: "Oh! Yeah okay that makes sense."
45:08 precisely why my favourite Voltron deck is akiri/Silas sunforager control, it is incredibly fun, for the question zone: if you could print one card that does something no other card does, what would it do?
QUESTION ZONE what is a mechanic in playtest/unsets you want officially visited in paper magic? mine was previously equipment planeswalkers but now its zone of fire
I really want them to make heist a mechanic, change jt a lil so it is possible, but I want a set that just has heist as a mechanic that we get on many cards. Like that enchantment thaat heists twice and pings when u cast from exile
I was at a table a few years ago and a guy sat down with a Child of Alara boardwipe tribal deck. He said “Hey fellas, if anyone gets more than two permanents other than lands, I’m wiping the board.” The other guys at the table were pretty salted about it, but I thought it was interesting that the four of us had to try to win with at most two permanents. I don’t remember who won, it definitely wasn’t him, but I still had fun. I don’t think the game took more than an hour or so but it’s a foggy memory.
The removal hitting checklists is a real thing, thats even more important if you dont know what decks you are playing against, as you cannot "metagame" your deck to have the removal. Sure you can use a lot of creature removal, but there are opponents with token decks, super-friends planeswalkers or the Shrine enchantment deck and you need specific answers for them. Cards like Farewell and Cyclonic Rift are generic catch all cards that check so many boxes, which is basically required to have any meaningful sweeper these days, as too many cards simply dont hit enough stuff and too many "casual" decks just flood the board with stuff and you cant ever clean up (which devolves into another boring slog of who-ever gets their board full enough to win with something like a Craterhoof, i hate these games as they have so little interaction, if any interaction at all). Oh yea and then there are the Graveyard decks, you have to exile the stuff and you need graveyard hate, otherwise even a recurring spore frog will just end you.
The problem with trinket mage's argument re cyclonic rift being an out to anything is that there are quite a few other spells that also return all the nonlands to hand. Cyclonic rift is just the most powerful and flexible version of this effect. Coastal breach, crush of tentacles, devastation tide, flood of tears, and rivers rebuke all bounce basically the exact same set of problem permanents, but are slower, less flexible, and/or less one-sided.
Stern Dismissal is my personal favorite tech piece for mono-blue enchantment hate. It’s a one mana in summon for opponent’s target creature or target enchantment. Super fun, super flexible, super easy.
When it comes to voltron, my boi is Sram, yes, light paws exist, but that was not printed when I made the deck. The best thing it can do is get sram down, vomit out all the 0 cost equipment, draw replacement cards, and then cast something like all that glitters.
I have a sram deck that uses his card draw for a storm strategy. If I happen to fizzle, well I have all these equipments that will turn you into swiss cheese
I think it's very easy to replace cyclonic rift. Just play a Devastation Tide or other board-bounce cards. They are sorcery speed and not onesided and thus fair and appropriate for lower power levels. Sometimes Filter Out or Wash Out might be even better (and definitly cooler) options depending on your Meta / Style of Deck.
Auntie Blyte is an amazing Voltron Commander that can be incredibly quick and runs a lot of interaction. So when (not if) you probably have a working groupslug/burn pile as your 99
I do think he is on to something with humility with new players. As a new "dirty voltron player" my first response would not be "the end is nigh" but would be me asking how it interacts with my already enchanted or equipped creatures.
My playgroup does use the house rule that you can repeat mulligan until you have enough lands, as long as you don't start with Sol Ring (or similar). But we also just trust each other not to actively abuse the system. You also need to have at least 35 lands in your deck if you do this
32:50 this has always been why I never run Farewell or other similar board wipes in my decks unless I KNOW my deck can take advantage of it in a significant way. If I’m playing a board wipe, 9 times out of 10, it’s most likely not hurting my board in a significant way. If it is, that means I have a way to advance it effectively in the aftermath. I abhor boardwipes that don’t advance the game. I ended up giving my Farewell to our Ragnar player because I felt his deck would be better able to utilize it than any of mine.
As someone who built a 60 card humility deck, I can say that you don’t just play humility. If humility hits the table expect a dovescape follow up with orims prayer or thunder staff. Humility is only included when it’s going to be used to stax you out of the game. Sometimes through the means of 1/1 birds one damage at a time.
Doubling Season is one of those cards like blighsteel colossus where it just exists at its price. Its literally a cognitohazard which reinforces itself by an influx of new players and the absurdity of its text box.
Homunculus horde is so spicy. Its definitely going in my Kels, Fight Fixer aristocrats deck where I'm drawing an obscene number of cards and can sac them to drain the table.
im kinda bummed yall didnt mention my favorite voltron commander in the balrog, hes not exactly resilient, but hes repeatably recastable, goes great with double strike and double damage effects, and when he dies you get a removal spell! and if he gets locked out, well now your running a treasures deck!
"Humility is soooo cool." Trinket Mage will never stop trying to make being the most insufferable person in the room trendy. It's never going to happen.
Hearing you complain about farewell reminds me why its in my deck lol. My plains walker deck is entirely made to get the jace emblem that counters your first spell every turn then play rule of law.
1:08:04 my lgs has 2 diffrent groups for commander we have beginner and league where combos can only happen 3 times a turn, only 1 land can be destroyed per spell and you can only take one extra combat or extra turn per turn so you can like take a extra turn wait for someone then take your 3rd turn in a round for example. then we have unrestrickted where everything is allowed infinite combos and infinite turns then last we have cedh where its well cedh. i find its very helpful to find like minded players
I've personally played Humility several times as a much healthier intractable version of Farewell. It doesn't touch graveyards, but it prevents massive cascade spam, blink ETB engines, egregious value piles, but it affects *everyone* equally. It requires thought to deploy, and unless you're playing vs 3 mono red decks its always going to get removed before it becomes too much of an issue. I've never had salt about it, I think because the deck it's built around isn't salt inducing itself, and I usually use it to save the table, not castrate it. I also think people read a lot of cards and think "wow this would suck", hence they imagine it as a salt piece, but in practice? It's never quite as bad as it seems. I've seen entire tables come together to form battle plans to deal with humility, stax, overwhelming value, and turbo salt, often making a villain is one of the most fun things about commander. Good video.
The normal doubling season is probably gonna sit a bit above Parallel Lives. Right around that $20 mark. The fractured foil cat version on the other hand... That one is gonna chill around $500-700 I'd reckon.
For Aphelia's 5 mana activation, you should make people lose half their life for each snake and gorgon you hit them with. For 5 mana on a tribal effect that requires a combat damage trigger, there should at least be a decent payoff for an ideal scenario.
@@thetrinketmage I had the deck years ago (before dry erase tokens) and mutating a scute and then hitting your land drop you just felt so amazing. Oh cool here's auspicious strix that's now multiplying, let's add a migratory great horn..... And it got so complicated to keep track what each one was and how many there were of each of them. Also I don't know if I knew the rules for it but is the copy considered to be mutated for things like auspicious strix triggered ability checking how many times it's mutated?
I run 'farewell' in my planeswalker deck and it's one of the best cards in there. Pretty much ends the game when it comes out because everything has been exiled while my boys are just prepping ults or ulting
It took me a while to get over other people getting salty with pick up games at FNM. The tipping point was when a 5c cascade deck player was upset my mono green super budget hydra deck won after 12 turns.
i recently started playing magic in september and within my first 10 games someone played humility and i agree with your sentiment where i thought it was actually super cool rather than something that made me mad
Twinblade blessing is overcosted for a combat trick but its on rate for an aura that does this permanently. It's an almost strictly better battle mastery, which is a playable card. The double white casting cost almost doesn't matter because you aren't rushing this out in turn 3, you're playing this turn 5 or 6 on a large attacking threat. With as nutty as we all know embercleave is, twinblade blessing should be catching some hype.
I have a mono red chaos deck whos win con is just making my opponents concede. But i simply play it because i find it funny and play things that equally screws me . Ruination? Hard pass. Obliteration? Real sh*t! Will i take 5 extra turn with timesifter? Maybe or i never play again. Who knows? The only non symmetrical stuff is blood moon because it just got grandfathered in. Card draws off but you get a free spell? Pull a random card from your hand and you have to cast it? Mana flare for everyone? Screw the turn order? Potentially 4 hour games? If you answered yes then you might like chaos Its my favorite deck to play in my local commander tournaments and generally everyone has a good time.
Voltron is 100% a "do you have 2 removal pieces before turn 3" and it cant be split on the table because each person will only defend themselves if it attacks them so each player needs 2 removal cards
Question Zone: Have you ever tried to build a new commander that peaks your interest that ends up very similar in function to another one of your decks? If so how do you resolve the dilemma? Ex. building between a selesneya token deck but already having an orzohv token deck
My problem with chaos cards is that in my experience it does very little to progress the game. At best they disrupt a combo, but that's about it and even then it's a matter of luck usually.
I have a Calix, Guided by Fate voltron enchantress deck very similar to Lightpaws(she's definitely one of the best cards in the deck too). Having green enchantments like Alpha Authority and Canopy Cover giving protection and unblockable, plus others to give trample. Able to kill someone by turn 4-5 pretty easily but yeah still typical voltron weaknesses.
"I think blasphemous act is unplayable at 9 mana"
I would hope so.... there are no creatures on the board to blow up...
SMART 😂
It's about sending a message
Please do not salt the snail
Youp... They desintegrate basicly.
@@MrSzymonpik Indeed. They basically disintegrate
"infinite turns pass, my deck is ordered exactly how I want it, let's go" is such an insane sentence to say, I love it.
Yes please the house rules video. That tangent was hilarious, I like y'alls chemistry
Blasphemous edict will 100% be a black staple, it will be so much cheaper compared to the $20 price of damnation
Don’t underestimate the Monkey, Snail Singlehandedly convinced me to play it in one of his past videos. Lol
For me the saltiest thing is when some one has a hate boner specifically for one player regardless of how behind, regardless of what they have or draw, regardless of what other people are doing.
Nothing makes me more angry than when i make a mistake turn 1, making an enemy by dealing one to a player, then that player spends the entire game wiping my board and countering everything i do. I get that i angered u and i get hit on the swingback, but its a lil ridiculous to specifically target me for 12 turns
Those are the type of people I just refuse to play with. Same type of people who deny that they’re ahead and then get mad when you interact with their board as if they weren’t a threat. When I’m winning, I’ll jokingly say nah I’m not the problem. When people rightfully nuke me, I go yeah that’s fair because I was threatening a win. Some people are beyond reason or just wear blinders to what’s around them
Yeah we have a player thats like that and we always call him out on playing what we call it Petty Magic.
Bro this is just my existence I get killed first always but it surprisingly doesn't really bother me.
@@curtissearle6462Thats my life too. Literally watch two player build up and keep zapping my shit
While I’m not a Warhammer player myself, as it’s developed in my hometown of Nottingham, I am legally required to comment about it. :)
Ok that thumbnail is really funny.😂
It gives me MapleStory vibes
Funny thing about Arahbo Roar of the World, I genuinely think Arahbo the First Fang is a better commander. A flat +1/+1 for all cats + a 1/1 (so effectively a 2/2) cat token every time a nontoken cat enters the field is great. Most cats in this set are low cost whites, so it's not like green is essential, and a lot of them have their own buffs to cats entering the field.
Cat tribal is a crazy good deck this set
I loved when one of my low powered pod friends built Arabho and suddenly everyone discovered that aggro exists and it’s fun and scary for the midrangey value piles decks 🥳
I like how snail slowly traverses from one side of the mirror to the other to elks head.
T-Pro is far and away the strongest white card in non-cEDH. Basically reads as a 3-mana instant speed Time Walk in that it virtually guarantees that you will get to untap and take another turn with your entire board no matter what your opponents are doing. It wins so many games, especially those where no other card in your deck could have possibly saved you.
I just see cyclonic rift as another board wipe. Bonus I get to keep my stuff in hand instead of grave.
I worked as a screener during covid for my local hospital and was told I could do anything I wanted while there were no patients in front of me so I just sat there and did hours upon hours of dnd world building for my players.
I love the disjointed moments. I feel like they always lead into interesting conversations.
how to not piss off casual players as a voltron player: ram through
This is the way. I've had some really funny game ends to Ram Through.
Hearing Alex casually speed read cards with a bunch of text on them has me laughing my ass off
I tried Trinket's advice about the self fulfilling salt during teaching the newest player I've brought into the game. His second game I played mono W stax against him and played Winter Orb. He thought it was hilarious at first and quickly got irritated. It's a fine line 😂
Results may vary
It's good that you brought up stuff regarding how a veteran behaves at the table having alot more weight to a newbie, because I feel like that doesn't get talked about nearly enough when discussing etiquette among players. Not that you need to make yourself into this moral golden standard or anything, but rather just adjust your attitude in order to cultivate an experience that player will want to return to. Among friends you've been playing with for years, it's fine to roll your eyes or pour some salt over super-staples, but don't shoulder the burden of guilt onto a new player, that just wanted to do a strong play. You have to remember that when it's like someone's first game, you should be doing everything you can to make it an experience that you yourself would have wanted as a first time. Not to say you need to throw the match or team up to make sure he wins, but just making sure the energy at the table is friendly and fun, so that he'll want to ever touch the game again. I also don't think rule 0 discussions belong to a game with a first-timer. Rule 0 is something that requires knowledge of the game to make any informed decisions, so any newbies is going to feel very excluded when decisions about the game are being made without him being able to input much.
As far as house rules are concerned, if a person really feels so inclined to have his own rules set up for that, you should just consider making a cube instead. Cubes are the be-all of curated experiences that allow you to transform aspects of Magic to your liking. Even with just the base concept of a draftable list made by yourself, you already have so much control over cultivating the kind of play-experience that you are specifically looking for. From there, you can do anything you want with it. Maybe your playgroup will raise an eyebrow if you came to them with the idea of making a "Shared deck Commander game", where everyone mashes all their decks together into a single deck you play. However, if you go out of your way to build a cube and set rules designed to build a shared deck, to which everyone brings a commander to play with, it's alot easier to sell the concept, because there's a certain expectation when coming to a cube, both an acceptance of these odd terms and a trust, that the experience has been crafted to accomodate the added rules. Instead of walking to The Gamer's Wharf and having to navigate this ludicrous list of extra rules to see if I can even play my decks there, I'd much rather the store had a cube curated to their liking and I'll play with that. Instead of being told "no" to everything, I instead am given the feeling, that I'm getting a choice to play with something unique (and also provided the game-pieces to play how they clearly want me to helps as well).
I always liked my Skullbriar as voltron commander
The most important thing about commander is that it’s a social format and you want to respect people’s time. Everyone is at the table to have a good time. When someone is there to play commander and you make their game an unfun non-game. Don’t be surprised if they don’t want to play with you anymore.
I'm sooo sad that Farewell is so frowned upon. I've cut it from most of my decks given how awful it can make games, but then nearly every game I'm just watching every ridiculous simic deck go crazy and I'm just wishing for a Farewell because literally nothing else will help
Simic isn't stopped by Farewell like you think it is. Simic is best at drawing cards and playing lands, so having a ton of cards in hand and lots of lands on the battlefield is a frequent boardstate for any simic deck. Farewell doesn't do anything to cards in hand or lands, so oftentimes, the simic player is by far in the best position to rebuild after a farewell. There are better answers to simic, often stax is a pretty good answer that's also overhated.
@tiduswalker this is a fair point. I'm blinded by my hatred of green.
It's not white, but I've grown to really like River's Rebuke instead of Farewell. Almost every game-state that I've needed a Farewell to save the game, a River's Rebuke does so much better. And the best part is, the entire table will help out since you're targeting the Archenemy.
@cocoachrispies i adore rivers rebuke
There's lots of other board wipes that can be more synergistic and can be used with less of a tempo investment. Being able to board wipe and THEN play another spell afterwards is a bigger deal than it might seem. That's why Vanquish the Horde is so good
The Yugoslavia comment hit me in the stomach, and I am beyond impressed how Snail took the comment. Maybe I am a different generation, growing up in Europe with refugees and families who witnessed genocide during the breakup in the 1990s. The summer of 1995 saw the Srebrenica Massacre and the release of Ice Age.
Aphelia makes me sad. I love gorgons as a mythical creature and wish they would go down more of the petrification route vs the killing route. We already have the 1 gorgon that puts petrification counters on creatures and I love running that card.
Noooo not the snail🙏😭
I think of you guys primarily as commander RUclipsrs, but i think it would be cool to do an episode each about the other formats and how you guys and other commander players interact with those formats
I like how Snail just schmooves throughout the podcast, defo would be funny if you just added a slime trail as he moved
I just want to bring attention to the idea that there are times where you can't just deal with an enchantment and it doesn't mean your deck is built poorly.
It makes a lot of sense until you're playing blue/black and you have 2 options that are reasonable out of every card ever made and then a handful of the least efficient, least on-theme removal every conceived
The issue with Humility is that it's essentially more annoying boardwipe. It either grinds games to a halt or shuts down many creature-based strategies.
More importantly, commander to many is about playing cool cards. Humility is just a middle-finger to that - "your cool creatures are now just vanilla 1/1s".
The weirdest thing I see now a days is people wanting to play with KOS commanders and getting very mad when people do…
They expect us to let them do the thing that wins them the game just because it’s their commander… No it dies.
i really liked the side Tangents it feels way more organic and not railroady. sure its good to have a general theme to an episode but this was really fun.
24:47 My "Personal Staple" I've realized has become Syr Konrad the Grim. . . Make of that what you will.
34:13 i agree with Elk. i hate how players end up using Farewell. Each and every time it’s the play that’s done nothing all game and all of a sudden they toss down a farewell for all modes and now everyone is down in the dirt with them. Yes we need board wipes in edh, yes we need exile effects thanks to prolific indestructible effects, and yes this CAN be one-sided. But even when it CAN be one-sided, it’s never that. It’s always all modes and the game goes on for an additional hour instead of ending in the next two turns. The worst part is that there’s very little counter play, you’re almost forced to play blue or white just to avoid it. Both either phase out OR counter it. 3/5 colors cannot deal with that board wipe. So as a fellow golgari player (my most played deck is g/w, but i also have made 3 golgari decks) i know that it’s just a matter of time until the white player casts farewell because they’re a little behind. It’s gross. It ONLY adds time to games. There’s several one-sided wipes in white. Pick another one. I don’t run it because i think it sucks. I like using my own grave after i use something to wipe the board, i like my death triggers, i like having one-sided, cheaper wipes like •the battle of bywater• or •hour of reckoning•
What's the issue with the game going on longer? Some of my favourite commander games have gone on 2-3 hours and have been just long ass games.
If you see a white player sandbagging cards it's a pretty good indicator they have a Farewell. There are play patterns you can use to tilt things back into your favor like sandbagging your own cards, ensuring your hand is full, holding your commander, etc.
@ the issue is mostly that the person casting the wipe is no closer to winning than before. That’s usually the issue. And again, i think board wipes should propel you to a win not just stax the board bc you’re behind.
I think it has to do with the fact that sometimes if you get a shit draw and all you've got is a farewell to even things out, then players feel forced to do all modes (including the graveyard removal) to try and even things out.
If there were any one thing I'd fix with farewell, its the graveyard removal effect. Exiling all nonland permanents is fine considering how damn powerful some boardstates get (looking at you simic) but if it couldn't exile graveyards then at least counterplay could theoretically be graveyard use and clever get arounds, like sacrificing your board to put it in the graveyard instead. You could do something creative like plunge into darkness in response to farewell, etc.
But unfortunately Farewell with no real alternatives that don't remove the graveyard means we can't have nice things.
Golgari has the misfortune of just not having an answer to Farewell and it sucks. My only answer with my Mycotyrant golgari deck is to make any white players dead ASAP and that's just not fun for them or me.
@@Magnet977 same, i have 2 goglari aggro decks and i need to just get rid of the white player with the most money each time. The second i see shocks and fetches in white, you’re my number one target.
Ah yes I love whipping cyc rift out with a board of merfolk, so satisfying
I made a Rakdos Lord of Riots deck *Explicitly* to break the Gamers wharf list. Still one of my favorite decks.
Talking about other formats' crossover with EDH would be cool too, Pauper EDH interests me a lot
So I really like this channel and the takes that I hear on it. I agree with a lot of things like “play more interaction/removal” etc. I am getting slightly tired of hearing “make decks without creatures.” That is not really a sufficient argument for or against any card or strategy. I believe Elk pointed this out on a previous podcast, but it comes up often. Great podcast as usual, looking forward to the next!
Trinket: "The newest edition is phenomenal, it's the most fun-"
Me: "What the fuck is this man talking about."
Trinket: "I started in 9th, or rather, I played a bit of 8th"
Me: "Oh! Yeah okay that makes sense."
45:08 precisely why my favourite Voltron deck is akiri/Silas sunforager control, it is incredibly fun, for the question zone: if you could print one card that does something no other card does, what would it do?
I actually really enjoyed this episode, I love it when podcast episodes tangent perpetually.
QUESTION ZONE what is a mechanic in playtest/unsets you want officially visited in paper magic? mine was previously equipment planeswalkers but now its zone of fire
I really want them to make heist a mechanic, change jt a lil so it is possible, but I want a set that just has heist as a mechanic that we get on many cards. Like that enchantment thaat heists twice and pings when u cast from exile
I was at a table a few years ago and a guy sat down with a Child of Alara boardwipe tribal deck. He said “Hey fellas, if anyone gets more than two permanents other than lands, I’m wiping the board.”
The other guys at the table were pretty salted about it, but I thought it was interesting that the four of us had to try to win with at most two permanents. I don’t remember who won, it definitely wasn’t him, but I still had fun. I don’t think the game took more than an hour or so but it’s a foggy memory.
+1 for Culinary Class Wars. Incredible show.
There is like nothing more satisfying than playing Disciple of Caelus Nin
while your opponent is still under teferis protection
The question is: in what deck could I use The Magic Mirror?
The removal hitting checklists is a real thing, thats even more important if you dont know what decks you are playing against, as you cannot "metagame" your deck to have the removal.
Sure you can use a lot of creature removal, but there are opponents with token decks, super-friends planeswalkers or the Shrine enchantment deck and you need specific answers for them.
Cards like Farewell and Cyclonic Rift are generic catch all cards that check so many boxes, which is basically required to have any meaningful sweeper these days, as too many cards simply dont hit enough stuff and too many "casual" decks just flood the board with stuff and you cant ever clean up (which devolves into another boring slog of who-ever gets their board full enough to win with something like a Craterhoof, i hate these games as they have so little interaction, if any interaction at all).
Oh yea and then there are the Graveyard decks, you have to exile the stuff and you need graveyard hate, otherwise even a recurring spore frog will just end you.
Question Zone: When are you guys going to ask Deck Driver MTG to be a guest?
Then they can play commander on the podcast
You guys went off the deep end, and didn't stay on topic. It was great fun! And you should do such more. Good listen
Loving the snail's journey along the mirror to get to Elk.
The problem with trinket mage's argument re cyclonic rift being an out to anything is that there are quite a few other spells that also return all the nonlands to hand. Cyclonic rift is just the most powerful and flexible version of this effect. Coastal breach, crush of tentacles, devastation tide, flood of tears, and rivers rebuke all bounce basically the exact same set of problem permanents, but are slower, less flexible, and/or less one-sided.
Stern Dismissal is my personal favorite tech piece for mono-blue enchantment hate. It’s a one mana in summon for opponent’s target creature or target enchantment. Super fun, super flexible, super easy.
@@CameronSMoore gotta disagree with that. He did mention that it's for hexproof/indestructible. Very nice though and I may consider for my decks
I'm thoroughly entertained listening to you guys reading card names and cackling lol
Filter out hits the hexproof indestructible enchantment. Also every deck does not need to check every box.
When it comes to voltron, my boi is Sram, yes, light paws exist, but that was not printed when I made the deck.
The best thing it can do is get sram down, vomit out all the 0 cost equipment, draw replacement cards, and then cast something like all that glitters.
Having a super powerful card draw engine in the command zone would be invaluable for an aggressive mono white deck, that's very smart
I have a sram deck that uses his card draw for a storm strategy. If I happen to fizzle, well I have all these equipments that will turn you into swiss cheese
I play Light-Paws, but I enjoy it more when my Raiyuu, Storm's Fury deck works.
I think it's very easy to replace cyclonic rift. Just play a Devastation Tide or other board-bounce cards. They are sorcery speed and not onesided and thus fair and appropriate for lower power levels. Sometimes Filter Out or Wash Out might be even better (and definitly cooler) options depending on your Meta / Style of Deck.
alternatives to cyclonic rift: cyclone summoner, oblivion stone, perilous vault, ugin the spirit dragon, all is dust.
Auntie Blyte is an amazing Voltron Commander that can be incredibly quick and runs a lot of interaction. So when (not if) you probably have a working groupslug/burn pile as your 99
I do think he is on to something with humility with new players. As a new "dirty voltron player" my first response would not be "the end is nigh" but would be me asking how it interacts with my already enchanted or equipped creatures.
For reference the arabo deck at my store kicks but makes me hate emeninance more because of turn 3 15 damage
My playgroup does use the house rule that you can repeat mulligan until you have enough lands, as long as you don't start with Sol Ring (or similar). But we also just trust each other not to actively abuse the system. You also need to have at least 35 lands in your deck if you do this
32:50 this has always been why I never run Farewell or other similar board wipes in my decks unless I KNOW my deck can take advantage of it in a significant way. If I’m playing a board wipe, 9 times out of 10, it’s most likely not hurting my board in a significant way. If it is, that means I have a way to advance it effectively in the aftermath. I abhor boardwipes that don’t advance the game.
I ended up giving my Farewell to our Ragnar player because I felt his deck would be better able to utilize it than any of mine.
As someone who built a 60 card humility deck, I can say that you don’t just play humility. If humility hits the table expect a dovescape follow up with orims prayer or thunder staff. Humility is only included when it’s going to be used to stax you out of the game. Sometimes through the means of 1/1 birds one damage at a time.
What I like in combo decks are those that have an awful lot of redundancy, so that you never rely on a specific single card
Doubling Season is one of those cards like blighsteel colossus where it just exists at its price. Its literally a cognitohazard which reinforces itself by an influx of new players and the absurdity of its text box.
Homunculus horde is so spicy. Its definitely going in my Kels, Fight Fixer aristocrats deck where I'm drawing an obscene number of cards and can sac them to drain the table.
I love how this episode got its name. Also that thumbnail! 😂
On the 40k/tabletop topic my war gaming loves are 40k Killteam and Battletech. Both of them just hit different tbh.
Once upon a time, Cyclonic Rift was only like 2 bucks.
Question zone could you go into more depth on how to select interesting removal for a deck outside of full on control
im kinda bummed yall didnt mention my favorite voltron commander in the balrog, hes not exactly resilient, but hes repeatably recastable, goes great with double strike and double damage effects, and when he dies you get a removal spell! and if he gets locked out, well now your running a treasures deck!
Agatha of the vile cauldron makes an interesting voltron commander
28:20 I mean sarulf checks all the boxes too….
arahbo is a midrange card in a format that hates midrange
"Humility is soooo cool."
Trinket Mage will never stop trying to make being the most insufferable person in the room trendy. It's never going to happen.
Trinket mage your not going to convince people humility is fine lol
Honestly I really haven’t had many issue with the card!
Hearing you complain about farewell reminds me why its in my deck lol. My plains walker deck is entirely made to get the jace emblem that counters your first spell every turn then play rule of law.
I jam Kogla in everything too!
1:08:04 my lgs has 2 diffrent groups for commander we have beginner and league where combos can only happen 3 times a turn, only 1 land can be destroyed per spell and you can only take one extra combat or extra turn per turn so you can like take a extra turn wait for someone then take your 3rd turn in a round for example. then we have unrestrickted where everything is allowed infinite combos and infinite turns then last we have cedh where its well cedh. i find its very helpful to find like minded players
The blue scute swarm should have been a bunch of beebles
I've personally played Humility several times as a much healthier intractable version of Farewell. It doesn't touch graveyards, but it prevents massive cascade spam, blink ETB engines, egregious value piles, but it affects *everyone* equally. It requires thought to deploy, and unless you're playing vs 3 mono red decks its always going to get removed before it becomes too much of an issue. I've never had salt about it, I think because the deck it's built around isn't salt inducing itself, and I usually use it to save the table, not castrate it. I also think people read a lot of cards and think "wow this would suck", hence they imagine it as a salt piece, but in practice? It's never quite as bad as it seems. I've seen entire tables come together to form battle plans to deal with humility, stax, overwhelming value, and turbo salt, often making a villain is one of the most fun things about commander. Good video.
You should hate on graveyards if they wanna have two hands they can get blasted with grave hate.
I really love homunculous orb in Mrs bumbleflower
The normal doubling season is probably gonna sit a bit above Parallel Lives. Right around that $20 mark. The fractured foil cat version on the other hand... That one is gonna chill around $500-700 I'd reckon.
For Aphelia's 5 mana activation, you should make people lose half their life for each snake and gorgon you hit them with. For 5 mana on a tribal effect that requires a combat damage trigger, there should at least be a decent payoff for an ideal scenario.
the scute homunculous makes me want to remake my muldrotha mutate deck
Keep cooking that’s a great idea
@@thetrinketmage I had the deck years ago (before dry erase tokens) and mutating a scute and then hitting your land drop you just felt so amazing. Oh cool here's auspicious strix that's now multiplying, let's add a migratory great horn..... And it got so complicated to keep track what each one was and how many there were of each of them. Also I don't know if I knew the rules for it but is the copy considered to be mutated for things like auspicious strix triggered ability checking how many times it's mutated?
If I remake this deck I'll probably add a couple muldrotha non legendary clones to play multiple permanents of the same type from grave each turn.
1:08:20 Can Elk explain exactly why he doesn't want to see mass land destruction at his table? Thanks
He has gates as a wincon lol
@emilianoflcn I see ඞ
it was just an example, i don't particularly care about MLD
@@33elk Yeah after commenting I figured it was more of an example but I was still unsure after previous discussions on stax & co. Good to hear though
I run 'farewell' in my planeswalker deck and it's one of the best cards in there. Pretty much ends the game when it comes out because everything has been exiled while my boys are just prepping ults or ulting
It took me a while to get over other people getting salty with pick up games at FNM. The tipping point was when a 5c cascade deck player was upset my mono green super budget hydra deck won after 12 turns.
i recently started playing magic in september and within my first 10 games someone played humility and i agree with your sentiment where i thought it was actually super cool rather than something that made me mad
Twinblade blessing is overcosted for a combat trick but its on rate for an aura that does this permanently. It's an almost strictly better battle mastery, which is a playable card. The double white casting cost almost doesn't matter because you aren't rushing this out in turn 3, you're playing this turn 5 or 6 on a large attacking threat. With as nutty as we all know embercleave is, twinblade blessing should be catching some hype.
And by turn 5 or 6 your mana is fixed so the double white doesn't matter
I have a mono red chaos deck whos win con is just making my opponents concede. But i simply play it because i find it funny and play things that equally screws me . Ruination? Hard pass. Obliteration? Real sh*t! Will i take 5 extra turn with timesifter? Maybe or i never play again. Who knows? The only non symmetrical stuff is blood moon because it just got grandfathered in.
Card draws off but you get a free spell? Pull a random card from your hand and you have to cast it? Mana flare for everyone? Screw the turn order? Potentially 4 hour games? If you answered yes then you might like chaos
Its my favorite deck to play in my local commander tournaments and generally everyone has a good time.
I cant wait to add the homunculus card into my malcolm izzet spellslinger deck
Voltron is 100% a "do you have 2 removal pieces before turn 3" and it cant be split on the table because each person will only defend themselves if it attacks them so each player needs 2 removal cards
PLEASE make a more disjointed one. This was great!
10th episode, man you guys been doing this for a while now it’s been a great listen to. will there ever be a 4th person as a special guest?
Question Zone: Have you ever tried to build a new commander that peaks your interest that ends up very similar in function to another one of your decks? If so how do you resolve the dilemma? Ex. building between a selesneya token deck but already having an orzohv token deck
My problem with chaos cards is that in my experience it does very little to progress the game. At best they disrupt a combo, but that's about it and even then it's a matter of luck usually.
Just throwing this out there for people like me who like Voltron, but don't wanna deal with the "Voltron issue" - play Ramses, Assassin Lord.
Snail's the rotating chair that should never fucking rotate out, y'know?
The mindskinner(UUU, 10/1: mill each player mills equal to damage you do) is my favoritt Voltron commander!
I have a Calix, Guided by Fate voltron enchantress deck very similar to Lightpaws(she's definitely one of the best cards in the deck too). Having green enchantments like Alpha Authority and Canopy Cover giving protection and unblockable, plus others to give trample. Able to kill someone by turn 4-5 pretty easily but yeah still typical voltron weaknesses.