Mark Fisher | More on Stolen Futures
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2021
- Hey Team, thanks for joining me for another video! This continues our look at Mark Fisher's theory on the slow cancellation of the future.
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My ex used to say "the internet has created a time where people never forget" by which she didn't mean humans will remember everything but rather that things like music and fashion will never disappear from the public conscious so they can be rediscovered and reinterpreted as raw artistic fodder
That’s a really interesting perspective 🤔
The internet renders time irrelevant. Not entirely, not yet at least, but the more efficient and all encompassing the internet becomes, the less meaning the 4th dimension has to our lives.
Vaporwave is one interesting creation of this timelessness. You talk about a decade having its own sound, vaporwave has a sound that exists outside of time. As barely a millennial, born on the cusp in early 80s, I remember what music was and somehow vw manages to be more 80s than 80s. Its hyper-real.
Magdalena, are you familiar with the work of Baudrillard? I'd be interested in a video on that. Also, have you read Grafton Tanner (i cant recall if he's been mentioned in a previous video). Great video as usual though.
loss is lost
Well, to me never forgetting equals never remembering. Way too many impulses (news, feeds, datas, spots, advertisements, social....endless list...) for people to elaborate, that is modern era's main issue.
nice to see you back! 🖤
Very interesting. Possibly one of the most accurate introduction to Mark Fisher's mindset.
Up to yer usual standards of quality (compliment). Thoughtful and calming discussion dealing with existential dread. Always glad to see yer videos
Damn Mags, back at it again with the white vans!
Sometimes a video is exactly what your looking for at the moment. Excellent work!!
Great to hear!
I think that wearing nail polish or dresses is still scandalous because artists like Bowie were seen as an oddity or a curiosity, and it didn't really break through to everyday life. Like I myself grew up in the 2000's and had to figure out all that stuff by myself, all of the constrains that those artists fought against are still very much alive today unfortunately 😔
There was a whole androgyny movement in the 80s, the 90s saw goth boys in skits and black nail polish, and then there was that whole utility kilt thing that really got moving in the late 90s and early 2000s. But, I spent most this time on the Washington coast, somewhat near Seattle, so I'm sure in other some places there was probably a lot less exposure to this kind of thing. Also post 911 was basically 24/7/356 moral panic so it seemed like a lot of this kind of stuff died down.
@@falconJB oh yeah I know it's sort of an endless cycle, and there have always been movements of guys doing these things, but my point was that you still have to sort of break out of "normalcy" to do this/ figure this out about yourself. Like to this day men all over the world are still being raised w/ very restricting ideals of masculinity imposed on them, that's why movements like these are still needed.
@@moonflower1759 Oh, yeah, definitely, its always seen as either a fad or a rebellion thing, never what the normies are doing, not sure it will ever be, it must suck for those that feel it to me more natural for themselves, seems like every time progress is made reactionaries seize enough social power the undo everything. This cycle the progress seems to be really threatening the reactionaries and they are fighting back harder than ever.
I always felt like Fisher was so limiting in suggesting that our perception of time can only be represented through differing music styles. The internet completely changed this, as it became the main mode for music distribution in the 2000s, thus broadening the channel through which we access music. It became less of a cultural touchstone and ubiquitous reality meld, instead being replaced by memes. Look at a meme from 2010 and it feels like a meme from 2010.
"I always felt like Fisher was so limiting in suggesting that our perception of time can only be represented through differing music styles."
Strawman argument. He didn't say that. He used changes in music (or lack thereof) as *one indication* of the depth of the cultural impact of Capitalist Realism. He discusses others. Capitalist Realism is actually more of a replacement term for Postmodernity.
Idk if I buy that the reason music has become less defined is because of capitalist realism. it's like maybe yeah but how do you separate that from the massive influence the internet has had on music?
Pre-internet people had to discover records on the radio and then buy them, so records that didn't have a big expected audience wouldn't be made. Come internet times it has become way easier for artists to connect with fanbases for way more niche styles, to me that would be explanation enough for why there isn't a coherent sound anymore.
This combined with the question of "how do you define a decades' sound in the first place" makes it really hard to draw a meaningful connection to capitalist realism out of. I think capitalist realism is an interesting idea but trying to make an argument for its existence through music styles seems like a bad choice.
Some really interesting things to ponder here. I haven't finished digesting it all but I'm commenting because I heard that's good to do.
I'm jealous, I got the Phiser vaccine and my cell coverage and internet haven't improved in the least.
Have you tried turning your vaccine off and on again?
I'm so glad to see you covering the work of Mark Fisher! and quite a pleasant surprise to see the sweater design on your thumbnail. Really appreciate that. Keep up the good work!
Thank you!
Great to see you again, awesome content, vaporwave philosophy!
So excited!
This video was cathartic to watch, thank you for this.
Does this issue of a “sound” for the 2000s and 2010s just come down to recency bias? Or it could be that there’s so much music out there that nothing can be culturally definitive anymore. Same with tv shows. Anyway, I loved the video! This complete inability to even question whether the world could be better if we evolved beyond capitalism is really a fundamental issue.
I think there are 2 big causes of that, first is that the internet allowed people to consume media that they wanted instead of the media that broadcasters wanted you to consume, the second reason is 911 and the Bush administration destroyed everything. Though people in an era can never tell what from that era will be remembered so I'm sure that the fact that 200Xs are still fairly recent does contribute to this as well.
Really looking forward to this
Thought provoking video as always! I do think there are a few reasons behind music becoming generic sounding outside of Mark Fisher's theory though. Firstly is the transition from a real money/wealth based economy to debt based economy. In the past, investors would invest their own wealth into the arts in the belief that they were going to produce something exceptional. Today, because debt is so cheap and interest rates so low, most artistic ventures such as music and movies are financed through loans and debt. The psychological difference behind this is huge, there's a big difference between giving some of your money away and having a project fail, at least you *tried*, compared to borrowing money and having it fail and then having to somehow pay it all back. This leads to much less risk taking. A second factor is the dilution of culture through so many more competing channels today than pre 2000. Back then there were a handful of big TV channels and radio stations everyone listened to. Now there are lots of cable channels, Netflix, Amazon, RUclips, Hulu, Spotify, etc. this also leads into my third point that music as an industry has become much less profitable as well, people don't spend $15 on an Album anymore, they just listen on Spotify or before that just bought the tracks they liked on iTunes. An album could have a lot of music that pushed the boundaries a bit and people would end up listening to those more experimental tracks along with the singles. Now people just bypass that. Anyway just some thoughts :)
This video SLAPS!!! 😀🎉
Excellent video!
Definitely looking up Mark Fisher. Thank you, great work as always.
Great video.
I got the Moderna vaccine and now I have magic devil powers so that's cool!
Also hi, welcome back!
Color me stoked!!!
Very interesting thanks
“There is no sound of the early 2000’s” this is Avril Lavigne erasure. Sk8r Boy defined a generation.
(Totally joking. I love this video though, awesome commentary!)
Damn I’m glad my workplace ends the second I step out of the doors. I don’t even have work email. Hashtag blessed.
Reboot the future! - I can it see very well in the new Star Trek iterations. They really don't have a concept what an utopian future would like for an early 21st centuary audience. [Even though there is some progress in depection and representation.]
Intriguing thoughts here, this an interesting dive into these ideas on culture and music. History certainly repeats itself, but it is odd what we keep revisiting as a people.
i clicked on this so fast
the future is CANCELLED!!
Future might be making a come back.
Glad someone else seems to have that Fisher quite stuck in their head lately
I'll trade you, I have Timothy Snyder stuck in mine.
Is this a requiem for the concept of monoculture? Because I would argue that monoculture was never a thing.
I think that some futurists are suffering from a little bit of homogenization panic. Your song choices through the decades really caught my ear, and I think you and Fisher have inadvertently shown a big problem---our own cultural blindspots.
I can absolutely tell you want the early 2000s sounds like to me and a lot of my peers during that time. Does it sound like what you might remember? Probably not, but it makes it no more or less valid, simply because I might not know it. There was a zeitgeist. It happened. I know, because I was there and aware of it.
Now, it's no secret that capitalism is piledriving all of us into a state of numbness and despair, and if there is an alternative, one is desperately needed. I think we both agree that the answer isn't things like the commodification of 90s childhood nostalgia, and the fear of cultural degeneracy as you mentioned. But there's gotta be something...right? Right?
Great to see you back on the Tubez. You are still my favorite.
well, this is timely. I'm half way through Ghosts of my Life
So clean eating and antivaxx movement are both connected to antisemitims and Germany. As well as are often used as one of entries into fashism.
That production value, tho
I think I disagree about the point about music, losing a distinct sounds of a decade isn't a bad thing, instead i see innovation, i see opportunity for young people that otherwise would've been cut out finding a way into music making their own sound and exploring their limits, the internet has removed the need for mass appeal in music and allowed pretty much anyone to do anything, vaporwave is a perfect example of this
There is an increase access to the ability to pump out music, and popstars seem to have longer careers
9:19 - xD
That opening was really creepy 😰
(And the rest of the video is not exactly cheering…)
there is too a sound for 2005 and 2013.
as a music nerd i can quite easily pinpoint a rap song within a few years and other genres too like metal and RNB.
do you accept the CHALLENGE?
I mean Mark Fisher might have if he was alive but 🤷♀️ lol
@@MagdalenRose 👀😳
the things I've been watching about 'circular economics' and stuff being done in the Netherlands comes to mind at 1:13+ but we've yet to really see how it pans out--9:46-10:03 was 'the baby in the bathwater' imo and I'm skipping a lot of details when I say this but..I feel that this video kind of confirms or at least speaks to an inner cynicism of how '[acceptably competent labour-force relevant 'adulting'/adult life or reality]' is little more than a collection of rotten popularity contests et al, and late capitalism is no exception..12:15~12:35 *cough*cryptocurrency and fairly recently El Salvador announcing an acceptance of Bitcoin likely in an effort to wean off how the US dollar has been the defacto currency since the early 00's *cough*
__
This video would've been a great opportunity to use various 'DJ Earworm' mashup videos ;]
Here's a good video on Ghost of My Life:
ruclips.net/video/gFyaNG9xbEU/видео.html
But what about those potatoes... -_-
Land lords should quit their "jobs"
Property hoarding should be illegal
Rent is extortion
Eviction is violence
No one gets a second house until everyone has one
If you can, please help my soon to be evicted family
Only covid protections kept us safe. Go fund me in the descriptions of my videos
Your spelling of "capitalist" at 5:28 is wrong.
Where are your humorous live action sailor moon drama recaps now?
They had to be taken down after YT changed their copyright policy a few years ago :(
@@MagdalenRose Ok, are they available on vimeo? If not, food for thought...!Btw, I've seen a lot of creators dodge around RUclips's copyright bots by messing with the aspect ratio, cutting out/cropping out the image's corner, etc, and be pretty successful about it. I'm aware I'm asking for a lot, but I really liked your SM drama recaps, they were the reason I subscribed in the first place! You've done other good content since, obvi, but they'll still always hold a special place in my heart.
Weebservations and the more recent Anime Abandon are good examples of what I'm talking about. Not saying everything they've said is gold, but with regards to dealing with copyright issues, they're quite skilled.
And Vimeo, Dailymotion, etc. are always available as a last resort, though if you don't want to use them, that's perfectly understandable.
The ecological limitations of capitalism are very real, but if we're going to make that point, which is a reasonable point to make, then you have to bump up against the ecological limitations of... well, living.
The pursuit of exponential growth of wealth is not a requirement for the exponential growth of resource expenditure, the only real requirement for that is an exponential growth of people, but even then we have other things that we, as people, desire to do and create.
Even this video, whether anyone profited off of it, as such, or not, would require at least all of the electricity and hardware used to make it. Same goes for this comment, and if we want to enable people to do these things, which I think most of us do, we need to be willing to make that resource expenditure.
This is exactly why I don't at all think it's unreasonable to invest in, and expect, that, one day, we will have to look to the rest of space for answers. Is that time right now? probably not, and it certainly doesn't have to be, but unless we want to start *seriously* reconsidering what it means to live an acceptable existence, and what a reasonable place of humanity is on the planet, that option has to be on the table. After all, earth is part of space too, rare as it may be.
I think it’s possible to live with less, especially Americans live in tremendous excess. Part of the problem is we can’t continue living the lifestyle we’ve become accustomed to. If we can focus more on not just sustainable- but regenerative design- the Earth will benefit.
@@MagdalenRose Oh, absolutely. We can, and need to be, doing better on a world scale, and there's a lot to be said for sustainable practice, especially in key sectors like agriculture, transportation, etc, where *huge* leaps can be made if we do change our general MO.
It's just that 8 billion is a large number of people as is, and any amount of industrialized activity isn't sustainable indefinitely. Even things that are regenerative in the general sense, like food energy, water, etc. aren't perfectly recyclable, and the big ones, things like oil and gas, and especially metals, minerals, etc., which we just need if we're going to live in a future that looks anything like what we have now, green or no, place a hard limit on how long we can keep going.
It's probably a *long* time, the earth is big, and taking better care of her would do a lot of good, but it just can't go on forever in any case.
people are designed to find God, not trinkets. thats why they are unhappy.
Look, even though I myself is a Christian, I find your comment were condescending!
@@futuristica1710 tuff
okay
Elon musk isn't going anywhere, he's sending the poors
Naw, once the Earth gets messed up enough he will flee to Mars and set himself up as Emperor,
I am disagree with your conclusion. Culture move on. But not from the mainstream but from the ground. Meme culture. Vtuber. Bardcore. Wallstreetbets. This is what people miss in mainstream media but a feeling in general public. The future cannot be build by ignoring the past. The future is build by rehearsing the past. Like bardcore. Like fashion. The past is given new spin to make the new stuff. Like Lord of the ring and old european myth.
There is feeling in the general public and mostly from bottom. The culture is booming. Ever heard of neo aesthetic and their dark academia and cottage core. The problem is that these movement will bring old value back. Gender role, classism, socialism and ethnocentrism. People afraid to admit this what going on because they hold on to their neo liberal value. I know it is scary, but also kinda exciting.
Conservative and SJW are actually two instrument seeking one perfect tone. They testing each other for one symphony. If we see what happened with gamestop is a rehearsal. It can be wild. It is one rare tones plucked once. We shall wait for full music.