5 Big German VS American University Differences (One Word: STRESS)
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2021
- In this video I will talk about my experiences as a foreigner (American) studying in Germany for my 2015 semester abroad in Hamburg as well as my 2 year masters program in Oldenburg (I quit after 1 year). I talk about exam differences, grading, prices, free definition of education, tuition, visa, psychology degree differences, hard vs easy, learning style preferences... and more.
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American University sounds like school. Had no idea this is so different.
Ah something that came up later: Everything worse than 4 is failing. We say "4 gewinnt" like the game "connect 4" is called in german.
lamblike
That's my boi lmfao hahaha"4 gewinnt". I didn't know that's the same for all University's in Germany, I thought that's just the case in Stuttgart.
American Equivalent: C's get Degrees
@@Coder-zj7lo I heard Ds get diplomas
@@CatzHoek I haven't heard that before, but it makes sense. Many universities require a C or higher to fulfill the requirements for your major and consider a D a failing grade.... Really depends on the school and program though. I'm sure some only require a D.
I think the test-system is heavily dependent on the type of hight school you are studying. A university is considered prepraration for higher science and "fachhochschulen" are considered for more practical application. So if you are studying at the university they expect you to mature up and learn not only the actual subject of the course, but also how to study, how to approach a topic and how to write scientifically. So you have to choose where to study, depending on the learning type that fits you.
Great video..you explained well..thank you for this❤
I love those frames, you should do a video about wearing glasses!
Thank you so much!! 💖
Hey Leela, how's it going?
Very interesting to hear your experiences.
Have you had multiple-choice tests in school too? In Germany, they're usually the exception not the rule, so you always have to answer the questions in complete sentences, bullet points, drawings ect.
That's at least my experience in Saxony and Mecklenburg-Westpomerania.
I have some Syrian and Syrian-American relatives in San Francisco, but I only visited them once when I was very young.
the multiply choice test I had at the uniersity was basis of electronic technology. You had the calculate a lot of stuff and than had 4 solutions to pick. with a litte common sense it was my easiest test I ever had.
When I was at university we got a list of books in the first years or even a published script of the lecture at the beginning of the semester. There were practical "Übungen" every week that were not graded, but gave you an impression on where you stood. At the end of the semester there were the actual tests and after two years they were either added up or there were explicit tests to get your "Vordiplom" (that was the time before we internationalized the system), after that there were at least 3 more years without(!!!) any tests, just two papers you had to write, and in the end there was your diploma thesis and final tests on all subjects and content from the last 5 years. The really stressful part was, that without an diploma, so when you drop out early, you had nothing (not even a bachelor degree). If you did not drop out int he first few semesters, you would have really lost time.
I think you are right... it is free more or less. That 300 Euros is more like a processing fee especially if you get a "Semesterticket" with it and if you think of the discounts students get in many instances. Technically: Yes it is something you have to pay... but it is more than compensated for even if you wouldn't get an education out of it.
"I was dying"... well that summs it up pretty well :D
What you describe about the schedule in the American university we do that in Oberstufe to get our Abitur. Essays, tests etc. In Germany you need to be more independent at university. So to me your system sounds like school.
I was never a good test taker :( glad I escaped where I was originally from! Like you described one key word to describe their schooling system is Stress.
Negative 2, wow! You have great eye vision, I have negative 6.5. Negative 2 is close to nothing; I had that back in primary school.
I must admit, when I was at a German Gymnasium (sort of like high school), I flunked an arts class, and the zero points never were mentioned in an official record. It was as if I simply had never been there. Thank goodness it was voluntary. I tried to improve on my painting skills, but I don't seem to be talented. I switched to photography then.
Yeah, the knocking at universities. Nobody seems to really know where this tradition stems from, but it's a tradition, you better don't ask. I liked it.
I studied social work, and of course, there's statistics involved, and it's heavy math. Especially when you're not allowed to use a computer to do the work for you.
Nice to have seen you again.
(edit: added an n in knocking)
Thank you so much for making this video. It is so interesting to compare Germany to the US. I wish Germany had the exam system of the US too. I hope you make a part 2.
I had similar experience. I am coming from Serbia (ex Socialistic Yugoslavia but not part of USSR block) and looking at West (mostly US and German) math knowledge I can see that we had much more mathematics in our schools on all levels
We don't do much multiple choice. Any answer you give should be 100% dictated by your own system of thought and not predetermined by any preexisting written answer given to you.
Hi, the glasses look really good on you, they make you even more of a German! (In my youth, I could tell Americans from afar by their (terrible) glasses.)
Psychology is not easy - I know what I'm talking about, I am a Diplom-Psychologe myself - Psychology is a science, in the middle between natural science and Geisteswissenschaft, today it is called social science.
Studying a science in Germany primarily means: understanding it in as many branches as possible, not learning something by heart that can be queried with multiple-choice tests! You learn at school, you study at the university - independently, on your own responsibility!
I taught at a couple of different Colleges/Universities. I often had inverse bell curves for my exam results from my students: a lot of A’s and F’s and not many in-between. It drove me nuts, because I would give very detailed study guides and then a follow-up of what to focus on, which was much more than any professor ever gave me, and still so many would fail. Yet, a lot would ace it. That told me: if you studied you’d get an A; if you didn’t you’d fail. Period. But, I was always very clear on what you were expected to know, in comparison with other professors where it was more unclear.
At the end you briefly touched upon the differences that could still exist besides this first part. I would also be interested in a second part. I strongly suspect that access to psychology is difficult because, for at least part of psychology, later as a therapist, similar to doctors, one "works" people directly and therefore a certain quality is desired.
The access for studying psychology in germany is difficult because there isn't a high capacity (students per semester) for it at the universitys similarily to the medicine major. If there was more space it would also be easyer to get into it but from own experience because of how the exams are structured you also have to have a certain intelligence and endurance to finish it.
I am pretty sure the actual semester fee for universities in Germany is even less than those €300. I think over €200 are the public transportation ticket. You can omit that if you don't feel like it.
I have glasses -2 too. When I studied i got lot of exams with German 1. I have studied Computer Science and Engineering.
If you sometimes get headaches from glasses you should get that checked out as something is wrong. I never get headaches from glasses. I did once and it turned out to be the glasses that were wrong. They were off by -1. They gave me -7 while I needed -6.
Sounds like university in the US is just more like school here. That test system is the same (more or less) with projects, essays, more frequent tests with different influences on the final grade, etc.
But university is meant to be more about developing self-awareness and autonomic behaviour so that people become "adults" and learn to manage their time by themselves because in work life you have to do that too often.
University when in the grade system (not the credit system): "4 gewinnt", 5 is failing ;).
Actually it is more complex... Usually there a three types of ratings depending in which grade of school you are. If you are on Gymnasium or any kind of "Oberstufe" (year 10-13) you are rated by a credit system from 0 - 15. Below that you are getting grades in 1-6 fassion (BUT there is - and + there too), which can although be "written" out.
The credits system is differently ordered there... 0 is (totally disastrous ;)) failing, 15 is perfect. But you are failing a class below 5 points in general.
1 = Sehr gut / Perfect
2 = Gut / Good
3 = Befriedigend / Average
4 = Ausreichend / Sufficient
5 = Mangelhaft / flawed, pretty bad
6 = Ungenügend / insufficient
Everything below 4 is failing (including "4-", see below).
If you want to be more precise than that (which is why they use it at university / higher classes, you can use the credits system or add the "+ / -" to it.
Credits => Grade => Written grade
15, 14, 13 => +1, 1, 1- => Sehr gut / Perfect
12, 11, 10 => 2+, 2, 2- => Gut / Good
9, 8, 7 => 3+, 3, 3- => Befriedigend / Average
6, 5, 4 => 4+, 4, 4- => Ausreichend / Sufficient (BUT, 4- is already failing!)
3, 2, 1 = 5+, 5, 5- => Mangehalft / flawed, pretty bad
0 = Ungenügend / insufficient
In theory there is more to it, because you can have something like 1-2 (1,5) which is "Sehr gut - gut" / "Perfect - Good" but that is only used in "Halbjahresinformationen" in primary and middle school so we are not going to talk too much about it anymore. It is meant as an information for the parents and the pupil to tell them: You are doing like that, if you want to get the "better" grade on your final report card this year, you should put a little bit more afford into it.
And yes... I am very aware that this is pretty complex and I do not know why we need that many systems ;). I think it would be fine to always go with one of them from primary school to university ;). (at least credits or extended grade system with "- / +" in them. And the stupid thing is: We already kind of do that because most marks are given in both fassions even at university.
Best video
I'm German but even I don't understand the knocking thing at universities, I don't know why they do it (we don't do it in school) and I find it silly. Maybe it's an ivory tower "clapping is for peasants" thing, or traditionally they could only knock because they had, err.. a pen in the other hand? :D
And yes, I tried psychology as my minor - bad idea, it would've totally screwed up my major, psychology wouldn't have left any time for it and I visited exactly 1 lecture (the introduction).
Btw - I was at Uni HH at the same time as you, funny. :)
It is not only an academic thing, it's also common in other places. (Most typical with main anual Meetings for clubs (vereine) mostly for appreciation for speakers without the high likeability you would have for music for example.
Germany sounds similar to Asian countries. The single test at the end of the semester is a recipe for cramming at the end as opposed to active learning and invariably forgetting everything after. I prefer the US way of assignment and tests through the sem as that helps with learning and retaining better. In a system that you test once that is difficult. Of course the cost is ridiculous but from a purely test taking/grading point of view I find US system better. I retained more in the 2 years of Masters compared to my 4 years in batchelors.
Ich lebe in Ukraine und lese Englisch und Deutsch
Dankeschön für deine Arbeit 💙💛
(9:10) The fees which you have paid are not really for the university in Germany. Most of it goes for the semester ticket (public transport ticket) and other things such as partial funding of the Mensa
Do you think it is possible to get a bachelors degree in computer science in Germany while doing a 20hr/week part time job??
My seniors who are studying in masters say that the academic pressure of bechelors is already too much and it's not possible to handle a part time job with that.
My wife has a Bachelor of Science in "Informatik" which is general computer science I think. She did not have time for a part time job. But that doesn't mean that you can't do it, because I don't know how much sleep you need.
From my personal experience, i would say it is nearly impossible during the semester… During the first two semesters studying computer science, i wouldn’t have the time to work even a single hour a week, is was super stressful.
If you plan to study longer than the standard period of study, it might be possible to work during the semester, but 20h per week is a lot…
I think there are better options: Have a look at „Duales Studium“, where you get payed ~1000€ to study. You have about three months semester and then three months of work in a company, always in turns and receive the same bachelors degree. Or, you could study at a „normal“ university and work full time in your semester breaks. But working 20h per week, studying computer science at a normal university in 6 Semesters is going to get you insane, it’s not possible without sleep deprivation. Most people don’t even finish after 6 semester and don’t work at all during the semester…
@@ilteen3181 thanks man. It was both informative and intimidating 😅
But thanks though
@@hanshelga I mean I don't really want to get sleep deprivation for 3-4 years
It's a bit sad that it is so difficult to do a psychology degree in Germany. I know many Germans who did (or do) their degree in Austria or the Netherlands because in Germany they add all this artificial difficulty to psychology. As you mentioned, it is not just about passing your exams, you need stupidly good school grades to get accepted for a bachelors programm. And then you need stupidly good grades in that to get into the masters programm. Then the same for Ph.D.
In other fields they dont care at all. I am studying biology and chemistry and no one ever asked me what grades I had before entering the any programm.
Could you please clarify the expression "stupidly good"? Does this mean, on the one hand: "unreasonably or impossibly good" or, on the other hand, "minimally good?
@@jeffwest5244 Unreasonably good. Since psychology is not that difficult (compared to something like physics for example) most German universities demand straight A's or 4.0 gpa to enter and progress. Despite a lack of psychologists in Germany. I don't know why. Maybe just to make it seem more elite and prestigious.
Thank you for your reply ... surprising though it is! I have not come across any programs (in the Humanities) with a GPA requirement of 1.0; typically, it is 2.5, occasionally, 2.3. In unrestricted programs, if this standard is met (with additional requirements, of course) such schools' websites claim that the applicant will be accepted! ... Are these claims overstated, or at least oversimplified?
@@jeffwest5244 My claims are definitely oversimplified. I do (mostly) chemistry and all natural sciences are unrestricted at my university. I have no personal expierince with other fields. Over half of the students in chemistry quit anyway before reaching the bachelors degree. So there is no need for extra restricitons.
I have several school friends who tried to get into German psychology programms and not one of them even got accepted.
I don't know how familiar you are with the German school system, but to enter a university you have to attend something like a college preparation high school for 8 years. At the end your average grade is calculated as the arithmetic mean of all classes you had. This number then needs to be a German 1.0 or very close to it, which you can only get if you had an A in every class. And from all I heard this trend contineus within the university programms.
So I gess they try to keep the number of students low this way, instead of increasing the funding for the universities to provide more places in their programms.
You should need very good grades to do any degree at a University. Germany is on the right track it seems...in the United States anyone can get a degree with minimal effort.
I definitely felt like my history degree in America was immeasurably more difficult than my history degree from the University in Graz. The US exams were often based on critical thinking and building connections, whereas the Austrian ones were mostly based on facts (for Vorlesungen).
In terms of seminars, in Austria, you normally have 1 presentation and 1 Seminararbeit; sometimes there was an exam and a little bit of reading. In the US, we had 2-3 Seminararbeiten per Seminar, as well as exams, presentations and required reading.
Luckily my US degree isn’t recognized here 😅😅
United States schools don't care much about facts...thank God to hear that Europeans still do.
@@jackforseti224 what!? Of course facts were important in my US university, but I had to place facts in their historical contexts in the US and analyze patterns of change.
In Europe, the exam questions were more like “In which year was the battle of Issus?”
@@k8con My apologies...you are clearly talented. Just saw your video of you speaking Deutsch..awesome!
@@jackforseti224 thank you! That was before my C1 exam… I’ve gotten o C2 in the meantime. A lot of my skill and ability to learn comes from my solid foundation in exploration and critical thinking from the US (+excellent Latin teachers in my inner-city high school)
@@k8con I stand corrected! You are living proof that there is value in the US system. How long did it take you to get to the C2 level?
7:28 yes I guess that's what everybody says about their subject. I mean you can hardly compare for example physics and math and psychology and others🤷🏼♀️ also what the heck my profs always give us at least 8 book names we should read so I don't know if that would be enough for you but in science that's plenty
Nearsighted. Negative 1,25 and 1,75 here, but I've passed my 50th birthday.
Knocking on table is an old academic thing. You're not at the theatre to clap
It's completly normal in Germany not to have multiple choice questions. They are quite rare tbh. The German High School Diploma (Abitur) in Bavaria has absolutely no multiple choice questions at all. My final exam in psychology was literally just 4 questions and i had to write at least 6/7 pages. The German exam had like one sentence xD And despite having 3 years of psychology, sociology, and other related classes, there is really no way to enroll for a good psychology bachelors degree. Literally no one i know had good enough grades :/
Beside healthcare, universities are one of the reasons why I'd never want to live in the US. It's just insanely expensive. I still can't fathom why a first would country would shoot itself into the foot like that, actually making getting an advanced education difficult for its citizens.
Also in some of the courses I had there were weekly or bi-weekly mandatory tests. As for "not knowing what to learn", usually the profs will give you pointers as to what's important and what's not. Also, there are the "Altklausuren", exams from previous semesters that help you a huge amount as well.
I agree with you. US universities are basically businesses.
It's so easy to fail in germany.
289 € AOK per month
5 and 6 is fail 4 is bad but passend.
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The main difference is that in Germany only the good pupil will study at the universities.
So the expectations are much higher.
Bitte Bringst du mir Deutsch bei? Gestern habe ich einen Lehrer gesucht, der bei mir sitzt und mir Deutsch beibringt Ich habe ein tolles Buch auf Deutsch gekauft Weil ich nicht gut in der Schule bin
As a German university student, you are supposed to develop your own research skills. That is more or less the whole point of the undergraduate studies. Getting the hang of academic work. So, yeah, you are left alone with that. That's your main task. ;-) Good thing there are not much of those stupid multiple choice tests, either.
(The only multiple choice questions I ever had while in college were multiple choice with written down justification. Wrong reasoning, wrong answer, no matter what answer was chosen. That was a bit mean but I like it in retrospective. ^^)
Jetzt bekomme ich ständig Werbung für Onlinedeutschlernportale... 🙈 lg aus Österreich
Das Leben ist eines der schwersten Punktpunkt Grüße aus Hamburg
Universities in Germany are almost free . You are expected maturity.
I studied chemistry in Europe (Austria), when there was no Bachelor but only master degree. Studying was free, but there were many terrible profs who favoured certain persons and hated others, a terrible despotism. Also written tests were often unfair and I couldn´t believe when I finally managed to graduate. I now have enough of university and this stupid system. I can´t recommend anybody to go there, at least in Austria or Germany. Get some formation at handicraft instead and don´t waste your time !
The hardest to study would be Maschinenbau. This I´ve been told by my girlfriend, who studied Sozialarbeit.She felt sorry for that guys who made Maschinenbau, they really had to do the best and hardest.
nah Maschinenbau just cry the most :p the hardest is physics, at least at my university they are the ones dropping like flies
In my field, electrical engineering, we started out with 180 students. After Vor-Diplom (2 years studying) there were 80 left. And up to Vor-Diplom it was basically a repetition and in-depth learning of skills taught at Gymnasium. The real dive into our major was done thereafter. But the riff-raff was basically filtered out. Means those who were not able to do math, physics and logic besides learning stuff like material science.
cant wait until u gonna work and learn the taxes for ur free stuff :D