When someone is depressed it can be difficult to know whether a show will be triggering or helpful. Depending on how the show is handled it could go either way.
TheLittleThings that why shows like this have people who review, no matter what the show is, you can always get an idea about it before watching it, no excuses
I wasn't trying to move responsibility away from the individual, just pointing out it's not as simple as people like to make out. Personally I struggled after watching 13RW but it didn't cross my mind it would be an issue beforehand. It was the way the show was handled that was the issue, not that it was about suicide in the first place. At the same time some people will have found it helpful. I don't blame the show for the fact I struggled with it but it's not always as simple as just not watching something.
While I don't think the show "glamorized" suicide or made it "poetic" and "beautiful," they sort of made it a revenge tactic to get back at anyone who's ever wronged you. Plus, I hate that one episode where Clay keeps telling everyone that "the reason Hannah died was because I couldn't save her." Love might make a depressed person feel a bit better, but it can't cure mental illness completely...
I haven't seen it, but from everything I know, it seems like at the end of the day, she's just as bad or worse than the bullies. Leaving tapes like that makes it sound like she didn't kill herself because she was depressed, but rather as an act of revenge. With the tapes, it's almost like she's killing herself in hopes that they will do the same out of guilt.
I've suffered from suicidal thoughts all my life due to being bullied at school and the teachers telling me to just ignore it, claiming "sticks and stones may brake your bones but names will never hurt you". well that's a lie they stick with you for the rest of your life and has caused me to have social anxiety. I've been rejected from jobs because I went shoplifting once when I was 13 and can't be trusted to work in a retail environment. the last time it happened was the British heart foundation, I was 36 and volunteering as part of a job centre scheme to get something recent on my cv. I've been in the job centre explaining my problems asking for help and all they could say was "why don't you do it then?" "if it was worth doing you'd just do it". often revenge has been in my mind whilst having suicidal thoughts. but I know that it wouldn't do anything, I've seen posts on fb of kids that have committed due to bullying and people just make excuses "oh they were just a troubled child" and such. yeah they were troubled they were being bullied and not getting help from the people that are supposed to be there to help.
I hate Hannah in this series, she killed herself and made those tapes to guilt and get revenge on the people who “did this” to her. I believe a couple of them deserved it, but others like Clay, or that other kid who she only put on the tape because he stole her bunny pictures, are not responsible for her. That’s what pissed me off about the show.
My only problem with 13 reasons why is how they took almost all the responsibility away from Hannah and put it on everyone else. I struggle with similar problems as her and through therapy and other programs I've learned you can't go around blaming the world for everything otherwise you will never be satisfied. You will always expected other people to solve your problems for you, not help you. And, as much as I hate to say it there was a lot of bad choices Hannah made and thats the truth about it, there was a lot of situations she could had avoided if she just *stopped to think.* Am I saying it was her fault completely? Of course not, shit happens sometimes. But my problem is that 13 Reasons Why failed to show the flaws in Hannah and the thinking errors she had. _When you blame everything on everyone else you take away the responsibility from the person themselves._ *Theres a difference wanting support from people and flat out wanting them to do it for you.*
I mean but even the characters mentioned plenty of times the flaws in Hannah's thinking and actions. It's just they emphasis her pain, struggle and suicide so that we (the audience) sympathize and see her more as the victim (which she was in many cases tho). However, I can totally see your reason for thinking that.
orzvsirie I agree with you to some degree, but I think what Amanda was getting at was that the show failed to display the fact that Hannah was mentally ill- she clearly had signs of depression (however some find these signs difficult to spot). I am also currently in therapy, and one of the main things we work on is recognising that my (and Hannah's) thoughts are thinking 'errors'. Hannah needed to seek help, not blame others, and there is a difference between emphasising for the audience, and false advertising. Amanda, you made an excellent point and it was said very well :)
amsayyy I've had bulimia for years, but thankfully I have an amazing family and friends they helped me through it. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to go through. Feeling like shit all the time and feeling like I'm completely alone. I never kept food down. I know exactly what you're going through. You will get through this just like I did. Get help, talk to a close friend or family member. Having support is what saved me. I hope you're doing better, bulimia is so overlooked I feel like but you are not alone.
So why WATCH IT THEN. I had a friend who committed suicide I've heard rave reviews about 13 reasons why but I just cudnt fathom watching it as it would bring up the past. Just simply don't watch then!
kingtoyab69 well yeah, that's what I did. I personally chose to STOP watching as I myself was near the brink of suicide and after hearing how detailed it was, I did not watch it. I didn't choose to watch it because I thought that, in watching it, I thought I was going to commit suicide, but rather I didn't want to be reminded of the ways I felt. I don't believe in these people complaining about the movie because I myself don't think that the show would be stopped as the show deals with an extremely sensitive subject.
I am a teenager who was in a dark place starting "13 Reasons Why" and the show really did scare me straight. I saw that people around me would be affected if I died and that it was not something I wanted to put others through. I think these shows are extremely important because they may just save another kid like me struggling with a serious disease.
Addis0n i have lost someone to suicide, I dont know you but thank you so so so much for realizing this, it affects so many more people than you would ever realize, thank you so much
Addis0n I'm so glad you realized suicide is not the only option. I'm sure there are many people who love you. Besides that I'm also sure you have so much to give to this world. If you find yourself in that space again please talk to someone or reach out to an organization that can help. There is nothing wrong with seeking help. It takes a strong person to do that. I wish you all the best and respect your willingness to share
I read 13 reasons why when I was in high school and dealing with horrible depression. I initially sided with the girl but soon came to realize that I hated that the girl blamed anyone but herself for killing her self. Depression, while it can be a mentor illness, is no ones fault. Each person is the only one who can individually fight their own depression. I hate the story and I think that it gives a terrible message to those struggling with depression
8-Bit Ramen i wanted to kill myself so many Times and when i watched the show and that scene came up I literally imagined what if that was me and my parents found me like this. I often think of that scene and it made me realize that I don't want to go like this. and the fact is, triggers are everywhere but you gotta accept living with them. (I'm 20 now and recovering from anorexia and fighting with depression and anxiety)
8-Bit Ramen although I agree, the show also showcases others who hurt her going through immense pain which can be interpreted as successful "revenge". As if they got what they deserved when she killed herself, which may push people to do the same.
8-Bit Ramen The creators of the show specifically changed Hannah's suicide from the book. Originally in the book, Hannah kills herself by overdosing on pills, but the creators felt that by doing this it was insinuating that death was an easy way out. So they changed the scene so that it was hard for viewers to watch.
The directors of these TV shows want to tell stories, some stories will cover sensitive topics such as these and its okay. The media has avoided these topics for far too long now and I see it as a good thing that we do recognize these things exist. Obviously before watching these things, you need to make the decision of whether you can handle it or not YOURSELF. We can't keep censoring society from this stuff and act like these things aren't issues in our world.
Totally agree. We can't begin to deal with these things as a society or as individuals if we have to shut off everything that might touch a nerve. Honestly, I think this idea, that we need to somehow make the world less confronting for the people who are struggling, instead of focusing on helping those people become strong enough to face the world that we all ultimately have to deal with, is actually pretty counter-productive.
Mxrvel trigger warnings aren't censoring, and the only way you can make an informed decision about whether or not you can handle the content of the show is to be notified on content warnings. I actually much prefer the term content warnings...
These prank videos need to stop. How can you possibly think that shooting a pistol designed to tear through light armour into your chest with a book in front is a good idea? I have little sympathy with youtubers doing such ridiculous things.
Exactly, these individuals are a good example of the definition of 'Insanity'. The Desert Eagle is basically a symbol in its own right, by being the most potent handgun in the world, and with that in mind, this wasn't done in ignorance. Both of them are (were) literally insane.
not even light armor. A 50 cal round can tear through plate carrier plates. Even a standard issue police kevlar vest wouldnt likely stopped the bullet from that range.
I honestly don't understand people who are complaining about these shows. If talking about it triggers people, then not talking about it doesn't bring a solution either. These producers are doing their best to start a conversation and instead of supporting them on their efforts we want them to stop. I noticed this on my own channel, I wrote a song about suicide and it became my most disliked video. I never understood why but now I can see that it isn't just me who gets dislikes when talking about these subjects.
peonyfrills or watch the show with their children and talk through the issues. But that would mean that the parents would have to actually be a parent..
peonyfrills you do realize that teenagers will find a way to do the things they want? and that strictness is only a motivator for rebellion? parents can't possibly monitor everything they do and they shouldn't.
I have not seen 13 reasons why because as a person who suffers from mental illness i feel this would be upsetting and triggering to me. So, I don't watch it. Because you know, i'm a responsible adult. The world isn't responsible to shield me from things i might find upsetting so it is my responsibility to avoid them when i can and learn to handle things when i can't.
Nope_Nope_Nope that's not really the point of why it's problematic. it's not "huur I'm triggered" it's the fact that they don't even remotely mention mental illness or depression at all which make up 90% of the people who commit suicide, and plays up a revenge fantasy. it's bad because they completely miss the mark on suicide and the actual depth and unwellness behind it, not because its upsetting to watch. Ive survived two suicide attempts and have both severe generalized anxiety disorder and major depression, have watched the whole show, and while it CAN be hard to watch, (edit and note, I was not emotionally effected by the "harder to watch" scenes) its just toting a false claim of being "accurate and realistic" whilst ignoring the most important thing about suicide they should not have left out. I hope this makes sense.
Personally I think it's "problematic" for what Sophie said. It plays up the revenge fantasy. Teens who commit suicide often write notes blaming other people and its sort of a "you didn't give a shit and now I'm dead so it's your fault" type thing. Teens who watch this may not see some of the deeper themes adults can see and may see this as a method of achieving their goals of finally getting the attention they believe they deserve.
Netflix has absolutely no liability in this. People should be aware of what they and their kids are watching - there's a reason Netflix provides descriptions for each movie and show they have on the site. If you decide to watch something, then it's on you. As someone who has been in recovery from anorexia since 2013, and who feels very secure in said recovery, I'm aware that I might find To The Bone triggering, so I'll watch it with that in mind. However, the fact that it MIGHT be triggering isn't a reason to not watch it - ANYTHING can be a trigger. I'm very happy the movie has been made, as it'll have the potential to bring the struggles of ED to a broader amount of people, and I feel it might even push those struggling to seek help.
Amen! We shouldn't need to post a warning for every little thing when they're literally stories about suicide and anorexia. People should expect to be triggered if they're the type to get triggered. Like "okay, I'm kind of suicidal, I should take it easy watching 13 Reason's Why, maybe be sure to watch it with a good friend"
Yeah, but let's be honest the show was made for teens. Idk if you have seen the actual show but the way it was produced and handled and marketed, it was targeting the teenager CW type of audience. The title card isn't gonna stop shit and Netflix just puts it there to cover their ass for legal purposes.
I started taking Chemistry after Breaking Bad and I started looking at mom differently after reading Oedipus Rex . We should ban all sorts of medium cause you know just to be safe. People think these are problems wait till the next world war starts. You sheep aren't ready.
The "Out of sight, out of mind" approach to sensitive, difficult issues is not the answer. We need to be confronted with the ugliness of this world so that we can start a conversation and eventually shatter the stigmas that are associated with EDs and other mental illnesses.
I think it glamorises it but in a different way. They made it seem like Hannah's choice was beautiful and she got what she wanted because she went through with it. They didn't make much effort to show that Hannah's choice was wrong because almost everyone on the tapes agreed that they were in the wrong. I made a video about it, in short I agree that movies and shows with themes like this SHOULD be made. However, It's necessary to show both sides of the same story and people need to be taught that each experience will be different so you can't remove things from life but learn to accept and move on from them or just ignore them at the most.
I agree. I think some of it also is the fact that she wanted revenge for the people that wronged her by saying it's all they're fault she's gone which not only seems selfish to me as a character trait but it also makes her seem like she didn't do anything wrong herself. If she reflected on herself and tried to change to some degree. At least seeing her try would've made me connect more with the character. A lot of what Happened was, bad things happened, she went to see the councilor once and expected him to come running for her and then when he didn't she took that as the last straw. There seemed to be no internal conflict and if there was then we didn't see it that often on screen.
It's not "necessary" for an artist to show any side of a situation... They, being human beings, are free to express ANY view they please. If someone needs a trigger warning on their art, then they should be committed as NOTHING in this world will be safe enough for them... What happened to if you don't like it don't watch it? The second we start requiring people's art to reflect full and complete, realistic, depictions... Is the exact second art dies. (The one benefit to that is that it would force real artists to go underground, and thus produce art that is many times greater... AS IT IS REBELLING AGAINST FASCISM.)
Bob Smothers I don't not like it because it's triggering. I just don't think they did well at developing the characters and kind of made it seem like she wasn't at fault in any situations.
So we cannot have films about suicide or EDs but we have films about murder, rape, camming, drugs, alcohol? How often do you think a recovering addict or alcoholic is "triggered" by watching any modern programming? if you know something will have a trigger in it, avoid it! If you are suicidal and watch a show about suicide don't blame the show for making you suicidal!!!
this is actually infuriating. I have ptsd from my mother dying of cancer in front of my eyes and do you know how many god damn movies shove that shit in my face? Yes, it is triggering, but I accept that it is a movie, and I do not blame them for showing a real thing people struggle with as long as it is done responsibly. by trying to stop the shows with the anorexia and shit in it you are making the subject matter more taboo.
I agree, saying something is inappropriate subject matter for a show or movie just makes it seem that much less appropriate to talk about with someone who could help you through the problem you're having.
I agree wholeheartedly, it's like sex eds too. The more society acts like it's something so taboo to talk about, more people would end up falling victim to the consequences from the lack of knowledge about it.
LuigiTheHeadcrab On the other hand, to be honest, I got a lot of tips and tricks from books and movies meant to raise awareness of eating disorders. My understanding is that Netflix didn't follow some advice they were given about how to make the show less triggering so that's definitely something they should analyze before continuing production.
People need these shows. When I was 11 or 12, I used to hide my food all of the time. Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner. I always hid them. I didn't even know that was WRONG at that age, I just thought I wasn't hungry. Parents assume their kids know these things, but they don't.
As someone who deals with depression and anxiety on a daily basis watching 13 Reasons Why gave me a strange feeling because, it didn't show the truly bad lows that come along with this mental illness. Although some people may be feeling the exact same way Hannah did in the show so I am open to hearing about that side of it, just personally from my experience the show felt inaccurate with how depression was portrayed.
Agreed. As someone who has struggled with depression and anxiety for over a decade, Hannah was not relatable. More to the point, I got very angry with Hannah and felt that she put herself in many unnecessary situations...She knew what kind of person Bryce was, so...why would you stay in the hot tub? Or go to the party at all when all of these people have screwed you over (in your mind)? I also had an issue with that fact that the tapes implied that Hannah killed herself because of what these people did...No mention of mental illness and again, much of what happened could have been avoided by her making different choices. I don't know. I wouldn't say that I was triggered, but I was frustrated. Selena Gomez never went to a real high school and it shows here. It was not relatable.
Selena Gomez did not write this, she is just a producer. It is based on a book. Also from what I can tell it seems to be more of a story about how a suicide impacts those around you. Finally talking about different choices...like the choice not to watch it.
Daryl B "If you don't like it , don't watch it" this is the dumbest argument ever. One needs to watch a show to comment and have an opinion on it. Why's that so hard to understand?
Oh god! SHE LEFT THE TAPES! IN HER MIND, THOSE PEOPLE WERE THE REASON SHE KILLED HERSELF! why will she address shitty things like mental health? It's not even remotely existing in her world. If she was so cognisant, she would have got help instead of killing herself. It's a story about a foolish teenager! That's all! A STORY! Not all stories need to send a moral message!! Omg
I know a friend who was very close to taking their own life before watching this show. Once they had watched it they changed. They realized the consequences and the effects of that choice and changed.
Anecdotal. There are people who killed themselves and left 13 notes just like the show with objective evidence to back it. Besides, you don't know what they realized, you know whatever they told you. You have no clue what they are actually thinking or feeling.
And neither do you Inkspot. It's entirely possible that the show helped the individual in question. It's also entirely possible that the show has nothing to do with their emotional change. Neither of us have any idea about their life.
If someone can come to terms with their issues by themselves then why push them into professional help? I'm just saying, sometimes it does more harm than good.
I am SOOOO sick of the "They saw it on TV!" excuse. This was such a thing in the 90s and it was just as stupid back then. People need to create art that opens a dialogue, you can't just push something into the shadows because it shows something too real for you.
As a person with multiple diagnosed mental disorders, along with severe anxiety and depression, who is getting psycholohical and phyciatric help, I appreciate series that shed a light on what it is like for someone who has an 'invisible illness'. My sister was strongly against me getting the help and medicin i needed, because she thought that depression was just me being lazy and anxiety was just a lack of confidense, but after watching the series '13 reasons why' she talked to me and we were able to connect and are now much closer because of it and she fully supports the help i am getting.
I watched the show prior to letting my daughter watching it. I decided to not allow her to watch 13 reasons why due to it being too mature for her and the content being too focused on blaming others for their suicide. I decided to allow her to watch it when she is old enough but we have had a lot of conversations about suicide and thankfully the show brought that opportunity up that i would never would of had without the show.
I'm sick of parents who try to censor things that "offend" them. We can't just hide art because people are afraid their kids will see it. Parents need to be responsible for their children. Graphic content that is meant to draw emotion will always exist. It's a story, just like a book, it has the right to be made and expressed.
Jay HM I've had two friends in the hospital for suicidal tendencies. Both were admitted shortly after watching the series. People with suicidal tendencies WILL flock to those shows, so that they can feel accepted and normal despite their depression or anxiety. But this isn't a good thing, it only drives them further down a dark path.
"Wow I really wish there were more shows about mental illness and disorders. We need more inclusiveness! We need these issues brought to light!" /Makes show or movie about mental illness/disorder/ "WOW. I'm so triggered by this! How dare you even bring this to my eyes! Cancel this immediately!"
Shows like these are what can help make a difference and open the eyes of the public, I fully support shows like 13 reasons why because as a person who has had MDD I think that it comes through with a loud message. I watched the whole season and I was impacted, left in a whole different mindset. Anything can be a trigger to someone who is going through depression and such but I think these shows are what are making the public even MORE aware for the safety of their friends and family. We're making a difference out here and helping others! And for those who are going through a tough time understand that it gets better and its never too late to receive help. Lots of love.
Why wouldn't they Google, "can a bullet go through a book?" Better yet, take the book to a shooting range and test it first! OMG But most of all, don't shoot a gun at someone you don't intend to kill.
apparently they did a test run on a different book and the bullet didn't penetrate all the way through, so they assumed it would be fine to use the encyclopedia. still a stupid idea though.
I don't believe there is any book that would stop a .50 cal bullet. It is classified as light vehicle ordinance, meaning it can go completely through most vehicles lengthwise. The test run story is unverified and runs counter to physical convention, so I'd mistrust that narrative.
even so, add safety precautions (like making it an illusion, holding the book to the side of you) if things did go wrong! there are reasons scientific shows stand like 20 feet away from the gun and like 100 feet away from the target on the opposite side of the direction of the bullet
Being someone who has tried to commit suicide and has been sexually harassed among other things(and being in a part of my life willing to share these experiences) this show helped me alot. The way Hannah felt when she got raped is a feeling I had, that it was my fault and I thought I could never get over it. But with the help of my family and friends, Im slowly gaining the courage to trust people again and deal with the issues I have. That show just showed me how my life could be completly different if I had gone through with my attempts at suicide and Im glad i was never successful. I think more shows should cover the hard aspects of life and show how we can move on and be the best person we can be.
the problem is that humanity doesn't want to face the things in life that aren't happy and fun. When something negative or depressing shows itself people just look the other way and forget.
If people are triggered by something, avoid it. Nobody is forcing them to watch it. Take responsibility for your own actions; don't blame others for making something that could potentially trigger someone, especially if it is both behind a paywall and has warning cards.
AvgJane19 Netflix can add the warnings but people have to be responsible for their own triggers. Saying these things can't exist because it hurts me is ridiculous
When it comes to mental illnesses like anorexia and depression, people who insist on burying all discussion are part of the problem. They make people bury their problems and drive people away from help.
GenericFakeName It makes people feel as if mental illness is something to hide or be ashamed of. It doesn't help that the media perpetuates the stereotype of the "crazy criminal" on tv and in movies, making it seem as if the mentally ill are dangerous; in actuality, the mentally ill are far more likely to be the victims of crimes rather than the perpetrators.
Angel Singer Totally agree. I think it was Louie CK had a bit about how people who want to kill themselves feel like they can't even tell their therapists. He made it funny, but it really opened my mind as to how ridiculous the way we treat mental illness is. The solution is as much discussion as possible.
PhilGerb93 Yeah I've never seen the show so I don't know if it's any good. I just can't stand people shutting down discussion because they feel mental illness should be taboo.
Yeah, just from the trailer To the Bone looks a 100 times better at actually portraying the illness seriously and being a conversation starter. 13 Reasons Why was an extremely poor and (in my opinion) dangerous representation of suicide.
The mere idea that Netflix should somehow "take responsibility" is moronic. They have hundreds of shows and movies about sensitive, taboo, and potentially "triggering" topics. I read the book 13 Reasons Why back when I was an angsty teen dealing with suicidal thoughts and depression and all it did was make me think, "what will it be like when I'm gone," and eventually realize, at least for a little while that suicide wasn't the answer. I dealt with many more ups and downs through the years and occasionally still do. I've also dealt with problems with eating disorders and yeah seeing a movie about eating disorders was triggering so eventually I STOPPED FUCKING WATCHING THEM. When I was younger people wanted discussion and now that we have it everyone's fucking pissed. It's so easy to just not watch or look at or read something that you know can be triggering to you. Another obvious fact is that most of one's watching this show and intending to watch this movie are teens. Teens using their parent's account. If the parents of those two girls had paid a lick of attention to what they did online or perhaps taken an interest in their kids during the most intense part of their lives, ya know fucking high school, their lives could have been saved. It is not up to Netflix to parent children and it's foolish to blame media for mental diagnosies. The warning is enough. The biggest issue facing Netflix is the fact that they keep taking down everyone's favorite shows with out an explanation. First Doctor Who now Futurama. If you want something mainstream to complain about and join a cause for its fucking that. This powerful platform taking away shows that making people happy. I mean it's just fucking bad for business.
I didn't like 13 Reasons Why, it portrays suicide as a revenge plot. It is usually never a revenge plot. What would you gain if you were dead? Another thing is that Hannah played victim. There was only really one good reason why, and that could've had gone better if she gave the counselor Bryce's name. But she was stubborn and wouldn't do that.
Gojida I didn't like your comment, it portrays RUclips comments about suicide as suicide encouragement. Now people will get the idea that suicide is a valid form of revenge. ...but then again, it MAY be possible that PERHAPS I misinterpreted your comment. Funny how art can function on so many levels simultainiously huh? The main problem being that one person could take it one way and insist that 'something portrays something else as XYZ'... At least you weren't suggesting that Netflix change anything. People are always so quick to bust out the ban-hammer.
not to mention that Hannah's straight up unlikeable. she was a bitch to the one person who treated her well, then sent out a bunch of tapes like "you made me kill myself, feel bad". I mean sure the people were shitty but. no one does that. I just can't stand that show.
I don't really get why people are wanting to ban these shows if they find them triggering. You have your own free will and can CHOOSE not to watch those shows. Netflix isn't forcing you to watch something you find upsetting. If you don't want your kids to watch it, set standards and boundaries for your kids tv/internet time, as well had having conversations with them. It's time people re-learn to be responsible for themselves and their children. I've avoided watching rated R movies and TV-MA shows all my life for various reasons. I've never once had the thought networks should not make these shows because I don't agree with it or find it upsetting. I just choose not to watch it. It's amazing how much simpler life can be if you take responsibility for yourself. 🤷♀️
We should have a book burning. Its the only safe way for our society to survive. We cant allow this negativity into our lives. I think we should burn any book that is possibly offensive or may become offensive in the future. We cannot discriminate. All opinions are valid because we are all different and all react differently. If anyone doesnt agree with anything at all then we must burn that information from our society. After all negative information is physically removed we can then move on to controlling the way we think with thought camps. Anyone thought to be thinking incorrectly can be subjected to a thought camp where we will convince them of their wrong thoughts and re-educate them appropriately.
+TheXTutorialx I don't know. Does the publishing of books graphically depicting suicide, and its effects on the people around, usually make suicide attempts spike alarmingly? Is it in fact a common risk factor according to experts? Did the author of the book bring in mental health consultants, who'd later disavow the work and their involvement citing that a lot of their warnings and advice were effectively and sistematically ignored? Did the book also portray the whole matter as a cool and provocative teen drama/alt-murder mystery? Sometimes its not what you do as much as it is how you do it.
TheXTutorialsx I read the book, it was alright. However when I started watching the show I literally stopped in the 4th ep cause it was different then the book. They added so much drama that was not in the book, that was my problem.
Azatodeth ADN how the fuck did a tv show make suicide rates spike alarmingly? Where are you getting these stats from, who are the experts claiming this is a risk, what mental health consultants disavowed the work? Saying a bunch of random shit that sounds like it could be correct doesn't make it correct.
Mental Illness, Suicide, EDs, etc are ALWAYS better to talk about. As someone who suffers from clinical depression and have had suicidal thoughts I know to not watch 13 Reasons when I'm at my most depressed and instead save it for when I'm feeling good. Triggers are everywhere and part of recovery is learning to deal with them, ignoring them or demanding that they all go away is damaging to the person suffering.
I agree, and perhaps the way the show was made was to attempt to reach people who don't understand what Hannah as a character went through, and don't see how their actions may have contributed to someone else pain? To people who don't believe rape culture exists? To reach them and make them think? Another way of looking at it maybe
KyoPewz I Agree, As I Myself Have Been Diagnosed With Clinical Depression. It's No Joke, Coping, And Battling Suicidal Thoughts, To Constantly Being In A Battle With Yourself, Its Difficult.
CodeDarkBlue It's not that for me. For me it fails to portray Depression and Suicide properly. As someone who was raped personally I hated myself. To the point I felt that I was a burden on everyone around me. I didn't want to kill myself for revenge. But to stop being a burden to everyone else. I know that's not the right way to think but that's how people think when they aren't happy. Don't censor it but for god's sake don't portray it so poorly.
codedarkblue---whats more respectful and tasteful than putting trigger warnings all over the content, and linking to resources that say there are people to help you if you're feeling suicidal.. and the fact that hannahs suicide scene was graphic? that to me IS damn respectful. it absolutely destroys the notion that you're going to just peacefully slip away...that its not going to be brutal and disgusting. and that your parents arent going to walk in and be completely destroyed. that was the best thing they could have done imo. rather than feed the delusion that suicide is peaceful
Actually its not usually an issue my family has mostly been living off retail paychecks for years until my mom got back into dental practice and we found many cheap helpful programs and resources of therapy and other things
If parents don't want their kids to see a program, they need to PARENT and stop blaming society for their shortcomings. Your only responsibility after having children is raising them, Netflix is not in the business of child rearing.
ye remember the days when a parent would walk into a room to see a 9 year old watching an 18+ film and they used to do a thing called punishment ye i got caught watching halloween when i was little and i was told not to watch it and when they caught me they scolded me for it i learnt from my mistake and when i was older i watched the film and enjoyed it. now parents walk in see their kids breaking the rules watching a mature movie etc and blame the tv company for showing it not the stupid kid for not listening to their parents
As some who has suffered from severe depression, a very crippling type of near daily hallucinations, alienation suicidal tendencies, anger management issues (I bottle everything up), and multiple personalities since I was 10 I have to say that I highly doubt 13 reasons why is to blame for this tragic event. In fact it is because of this show I was able to get a dear friend of mine to realise that she needs professional help.
As a teacher, when I watched 13 reasons why I was afraid about the take-away some teens may gather from the series. They absolutely did not make it clear that ending your life is not a way to solve the temporary issues that plague you at that moment in your life. The narrator was able to make all the people who hurt her feel guilty/have their lives ruined through her suicide tapes. It was also unnecessary to show the suicide itself by way of the same argument against news organizations demonstrating how a bomber made the bomb out of household items. All that said, I absolutely believe that it's benefits outweigh all of that. Again, as a teacher and as an adult, it was an eye-opening experience. There are things that kids go through that we, with our own experiences and wisdom, take for granted. We forget what it's like to be a developing teenager, or at least I did even though I work with them every day. I truly believe it's necessary that adolescent teachers and parents watch this series, but when it comes to teens/young adults, I'm not so sure. Perhaps watching it with your teen would be the most beneficial thing you can do for both of you.
Treesuh The argument about News Channels showing how to make a bomb is entirely nonsensical. That's not common knowledge. What is common knowledge is that when you stab or cut yourself, you bleed. Slashing wrists is something everyone knows how to do
Treesuh they showed the suicide because they wanted to make you feel uncomfortable and show many people that it's not a peaceful way out like so many teens think and when it's done it's done most people who survived trying to commit suicide say they regret it right after this show wanted to show the harsh truth of it it not sugar coat it like so many outlets do these days.
Tell your kids to think outside the box that is their lives and try and show some empathy towards one anthers situation, when they give you a smartass answer start posing situations that get harder and harder to get out of. If the school system and their up bringing situation hasn't failed them, then they should come out with a better understanding of peoples situations; if not then you are looking at the beginnings of a sociopath. And don't end it with some bullshit saying like "we are always here to help you" speech end it with something akin to " there is always a way out you just need to look for it, yea ask for help when you can but always try and find a way out of those moments. Because in the end they are just Moments, a few passing days or weeks that may not be going your way but they will pass and you will be stronger in spite of those moments. No one is that weak, we all are human we all have the same capacity, maybe not the same natural skills but most definitely the ability to grow and become far stronger than we are today." I used to tell this to my Marines that were having a hard time in life.
Ryan, yes it’s common knowledge you bleed but failed suicide attempts say it’s not as common knowledge of how you die from it (I am not going to get graphic about self harm so I hope you can understand what I mean by that). Granted, that scene will not necessarily “teach” someone who wants to harm themselves irreparably but showing it doesn’t help avoid watering the seed that’s planted in a person’s mind. Tyler, I absolutely agree with that sentiment but I don’t know, maybe I saw it a lot more artsy (moving?) than scary or unbearable but that’s just me then. Lol. Child of God, I did not mean to generalize; I was specifically referring to the scenario that is illustrated in the movie and I’m sorry if it came across as dismissive to others’ situations. It’s highlighted that her pain (meaning the external factors) was temporary and that is the situation I was speaking to. Dante, thank you for your advice and thank you for your service.
I don't relate To The Bone with 13 Reasons Why because I see a difference in their audiences, a difference in their cast (TTB's cast seeming to have more personal experience and a MATURE response to and opinion of the subject matter), and a difference in their accessibilities. TTB is a movie; you get it once and you can rewatch it, yeah, but it's one story made and told. 13RW is a continuous story, a series where the viewer gets more and more of this content, sees new and different ways for the narrative to be told graphically and with the unhealthy bias of the main character, etc. Idk, I gotta go so I can't say more, but I really just don't equate the two at all. I think production on 13RW /should/ be cancelled. But I support TTB for reasons / differences above.
I'm not even a firearm expert, but I have enough knowledge of bullet calibers to have the feeling that a .50 cal can penetrate and go through a hardcover encyclopedia . Not only that, but doing a control test without anyone behind the book could've at least gave alarm bells to the couple that "Oh, maybe this is a bad idea and we shouldn't go with it." Now guess what? You have two children with a dead father and a mother in prison, because of their idiotic actions. I can only imagine what the children will think when they find out the truth about what happened.
The Desert Eagle in .50 ae (and even .357 and .44 magnum) will go straight through a bullet proof vest. This is a pistol known for breaking noses even if your holding it way out. This is why I feel more people need proper education on guns and gun calibers. Helmets don't save you from much, the standard bullet proof vest is only good for a few shots from small pistols, and hiding behind a car wont save you from a bullet either.
Regarding 13 reasons why being blamed for suicides, Metallica was also blamed for causing suicide (Fade To Black). So was Marilyn Manson and video games and books and movies. I notice that these people don't look inward at themselves and simply just put blame on others for their problems.
dujfraz I think it's because 13 Reasons Why is very on the nose concerning suicide which is why it gets so much backlash, which I do think it partially deserves
But if we know that producing stories on suicide makes people commit suicide, what's the excuse to do it anyway? Nobody is claiming that the tv media "made someone commit suicide". That's a strawman. But it does push vulnerable people over the edge. If you know that someone is suicidal and you taunt them to go through with it, you're actually held accountable. Same logic here. The producers knew for a fact that producing this show will push some people to make that final step, and they made the show anyway.
+Alek Novy *"But if we know that producing stories on suicide makes people commit suicide, what's the excuse to do it anyway?"* It's not necessarily an excuse (that is, I don't think you need an excuse), but the first reason, of course, is money. It's a taboo topic. People like to watch things on things that are taboo. The second reason might well be the awareness a show like this might bring. I don't think there are any scientific #s on it (and if I'm wrong, please do share a link), but let's just hypothesize that for every person who is pushed over the edge, there might be at least one who gets help before it's too late. Others might see how bullying can affect people and step up to prevent when they may otherwise have stayed quiet. Others yet might be helped into realizing there was nothing they could have done to help someone who committed suicide and stop blaming themselves. Again, I don't know of any hard and fast #s for this, but I wouldn't be surprised if for every person that was harmed, 5 others were significantly helped. Think of it like the old "should we teach teens about birth control" argument. If we do teach them, sure, maybe 1 kid in 30 will get curious and have sex earlier than they otherwise would have, but 1 in 5 might learn to use birth control and not suffer from a teen pregnancy. If nothing else, we do know education works and is a net positive. I would think the same would be true re: suicide.
I have depression and I watched 13 Reasons Why. I didn't find it triggering but I can see how it would be. The only real issue I have with it is that it showcases suicide as a means to get revenge. Especially since the audience gets to see the effect Hannah's suicide has on the others. If someone is really struggling it makes it seem like a good option to put your pain onto others. IMO it is up to the individual on whether or not they watch it though.
Yes, It is like the perfect fantasy of a suicidal. Finally become important to people who hurt you... But bullies don't care! After someone suicides because of Bullying suddenly everyone is in shock and the bullies en up being the victims because "oh poor darling, you friend died at school it must be hard for you". Even if they get prosecuted "Oh my god why is she responsible? Se only sent harmless hate messages daily. She didn't mean it." Then they move on with their lives.
Imogen Elise but as a teenager, many do look at it as a kind of revenge. I did as a teen, the whole ' I'll fucking show them, see how they feel when I'm dead' kinda thought process.
Exactly what I was thinking. But they did also show the downside of "revenge suicide.' We saw how her parents got devastated and a few other characters. I just wish they portrayed "The Butterfly Effect" theory more, Ik they talked about it for like 5 mins but they didn't show it.
Addressing the 13 reasons why... People didn't kill themselves over the book. Nowadays people just take things to the heart. From what I remember the book was equal to the show.
Xavier Dominguez I read the book but didn't watch the show and I can't even remember it being a trigger. I thought the book was great but barely remember it lol
Xavier Dominguez But didn't Hannah in the book overdose instead of slitting her wrist?? I don't remember much of the book (I've read it in highschool, but I don't have the book anymore. I gave it to a friend for his project.) but I don't think it was *that* gruesome or graphic, in fact, Hannah seem like she didn't put so much blame on everyone in the book rather than in the show. Hannah in the show keeps blaming others and then goes like "waaaah! Nobody is chasing after me! Nobody cares for my well-being" even though her parents supported her till the very end and the counselor at her school said he couldn't do much unless Hannah specifies what's really going on and people involved in her situation. That's just my opinion, the show doesn't make people hurt themselves but it makes suicide look like it's for revenge and attention.
you need to reread the book then... they changed so much. Made it a revenge plot... Additionally, all suicide prevention websites say DO NOT SHOW SUICIDES... what does 13RW do? Oh show the suicide and display her getting revenge on everyone that she thinks wronged her.
It shines a very important subject to light and its sad that so many people decide to take a topic of awareness as a topic of suggestion. People need to learn the difference between those because in no way was the show intended to show you suicide as a suggestion. It shows you why it happens brings you into that persons life their suffering their shoes and helps you see that there's so much you can do to help and show you to be much more aware what you do to people around you.
Chill Bringer Thank you for bringing the point of the prevention websites stating that you should not show the actual suicide. I’m a psychology major and it’s literally in the textbooks I’ve read that covering suicides in graphic detail, whether it’s a fictional visual depiction of the act or a news report, leads to copycat suicides. Yes, it’s an extremely important topic that needs to be addressed on a wide scale, but care also needs to be taken to avoid anything that can lead to copycat suicides.
Props for promoting Guardian Con as well as for your own contributions, Phil! The Destiny community's generosity and positivity never ceases to amaze me, and it is great to see you acknowledged their efforts for St. Jude as well.
I’m late on this I don’t care but this needs to be said about 13 Reasons Why: In my opinion it’s a terrible show for numerous reasons. One: I used to suffer from depression and did not so great things to myself and I can tell you first hand that’s not how that works. Two: Yes the show is glamorizing suicide. Period point blank. Three: I find it disgusting how Hannah is blaming people that had nothing to do with the events that occurred to her for her suicide. I just find it sick how she’s telling people “hey you’re the reason why I killed myself and instead of me taking blame for it, I’m gonna blame you” All in all 13 Reasons Why is a disgusting show (the book was very well written) and it was poorly executed to be an adaption of the book. They had the right idea and all but it was just terrible disgusting execution
How did they possibly think that shooting a book the man was HOLDING IN HIS HANDS WITH A LOADED GUN was ever going to be a good idea? It really is sad to see a life lost and another in jail, but people seriously need to learn guns are not toys and never point a gun at another person. Even if you think that gun is Unloaded, NEVER point it at someone else.
Charles Dickenson, He was not being literal. He means when you have the decimal in that place (50.), then compared to a .50 cal. It would be the size of tank ammo.
Yeah, I mean Jesus Christ. It's one thing if you use .22, which, while still being stupid, would not be life threatening and probably won't even go through the book. But they use the closest thing to a one handed cannon and shot that. I hate to make fun of a dead guy, but he's an idiot.
My 15 year old daughter tried to kill herself last October. She has a great therapist now and we as a family have gone to therapy in order to strengthen our communication as a family. My point in sharing this is it's my job as her mother to do all I can to help her and love her. It is my responsibility to decide what is out there that might be harmful or triggering to her and then have an honest discussion about it. It's not Netflix's job to do that. Their job is to create content. With that being said I'm not a huge fan of this show and wish that it had a more positive outcome. As for the To the Bone show, from what I understand she is shown getting some help. So we are watching her journey and possibly gaining our own strength from that. It feels like a more positive message. But it will always be my job to keep communication open with my kids and tailor my conversations to each of my child's needs. Thanks so much Phil for always creating a space for communication. Love your face!!
Angela Allen there isn't usually a positive outcome when it comes to suicide more often than not it usually doesn't have a happy ending and I say I have to disagreed a lot of parents don't see the warning signs when it comes to suicide you didn't know your daughter was suicidal until she attempted it and I say y'all are very lucky she didn't succeed this show gets parents aware of what might be going on in their kids lives.
And a side note...; Many parents don't really know the 1st thing that's going on in their kids-teens lives, they need and should keep an eye out for problem signs and STOP blaming their lack of information. Get involved, CARE about what you children are doing, who they are influenced by. Oh...and everybody will have a problem with SOMETHING in the course of their lives, if you have a problem with information that makes you uneasy, try learning from it instead of taking the foolish or childish approach to it.
Social Media With Mr Info exactly . If you knew your child was troubled maybe it would be a better idea to talk to your child and care for them and try to find their actual problems instead of blaming the show
i struggled with an eating disorder for 14 years and i think if that netflix show was around when i was deep into my eating disorder i would not of felt so alone and may have seeked help sooner. i still have an unhealthy relationship with food but have not purged in 5 years. This conversation has encouraged me to go get more help. ED is a serious life struggle and remission can happen at any time. Support is needed..shame for seeking help should not exist thanks for spreading the resources for help and awareness Philip
ForevermoreNevermore look up how strong kinetic/muzzle energy is released from a 50 caliber AE round. It'll go through a car like butter. This moron decided to try it with a book. At first I thought he was going to use a .22 which is still stupid but a .50 is just suicide.
Rachel Stephens One news story says the guy showed the girl a book with a bullet hole that didn't go all the way through, so she was convinced it wouldn't hurt him. So, either she was lying, to cover for herself, or it was an accident and they did something different than with the first book. Or... even darker... maybe this story is actually related to the "13 Reasons" story.
As someone who has battled with suicidal thoughts, 13 reasons why was extremely triggering, but I never felt more happy to be alive because of it. That show increased an open dialogue on Mental Illness and stripped away the stigma that we shouldn't talk about it. It's a tough conversation, parents are mad because they have to talk about this dark subject matter to their teens, but this is what happening and parents need to understand that. May not be scene by scene, but the alone in your head feeling, feeling lost, and unwanted etc. Also, parents, come on you are probably the one paying for the Netflix, there are a lot of mature content that teens these days can be streaming.
So basically nobody can make a show discussing an important and relevant issue without people thinking that the show is promoting said issue...??????? Some people are just stupid
Granted, apparently during production, the psychiatrists and other professionals in the mental health sector who they consulted gave them a list of things they should not do in order to avoid triggering people who are vulnerable to suicide, so that the show could raise awareness without endangering people. I believe some of those experts have come out saying that they did just about everything they said not to do.
I think an issue with 13 Reasons Why was the use of the tapes in particular. There have already been teenage suicides that copied the series by leaving tapes in the exact same fashion. The problem isn't the fact that they are openly and creatively discussing hard-hitting topics, I think everyone welcomes discussion (most families of suicide victims end up engaging with awareness campaigns). With this series the problem was that it would give anyone at risk somewhat of a playbook, or guide, on how to commit suicide and how to leave a guilt trail for all those who they believe were involved in their death. It would be like contemporary war documentaries also showing tutorials on how to make improvised explosive devices.
I dont think saying "some people are just stupid" is really a way to argue here because it dismisses real arguments. I agree with the people above my comment who say the problem with the show is not that an important issue is being discussed- it is how it is portrayed. (I speak mainly of 13 reasons why because i dont know what the other movie is and i think it really depends on each case.) Granted, people will always have something to complain about but it is just ignorant to make a show about something so sensitive with almost complete disregard to the suggestions that professionals have made regarding the portrayal. Everyone has a unique experience that they have a right to share but when presenting something to millions of people- including minors- the least the creators could have done was represent those experiences in a safe manner. Suggesting that people with this view are some kind of sensitive easily triggered people- which i know you didnt personally say- is dismissing an important issue which is ironic considering the whole argument is to talk about relevant issues.
answer8597 sorry, but that line wasnt mean to be taken so literal. What i was trying to say is that this type of people who get trigged so easily shouldnt be the reason why people cant make extremely important show/movies where the main goal is to represent the reality of Many people... i apologize for my grammar, im chilean.
A show depicted a terrible, vindictive and manipulative person commit suicide, enacting a deliberate plan for that to continue after her death, as well as displaying Conduct Disorder ( pre-adult psychopathy) - if people relate to this.....then our society needs a great deal of mental help.
flamingmuffin666 in my perspective that's kind of the show's point, to show that any form of vengeance is bad and that suicide is not the answer to any situation, because there are people who love you that WILL be affected by your actions.
Izzy F - YOU think it portrays it as bad and that that's its point. But the reality is that the show basically leaves the perception of vengeance up to interpretation...which is bad. Especially as a show geared towards teenagers and young adults whose complex reasoning skills are still in development. I can tell you that as someone who has had vindictive thoughts when contemplating suicide, we already know people will be affected by our actions. Sometimes that's the whole point. It's an immature way of thinking that Hannah showcases perfectly.
what dream world do you live in. I bet you was one of them kids surrounding some poor kid shouting"fight! fight! fight!" as some bullies bigger and older then them intimidate them. it's a great laugh, it's just the bullied person that gets taken away for fighting back, you get to carry on with your friends having fun and enjoying you break time.
when you're trying to ban sensitive topics such as suicide and anorexia from main stream media, it makes the topics seem more taboo which makes people shy away from talking about them, and that's _a lot_ more dangerous than raising awareness for the subjects. how can people _not_ realise this?!
As said in the video he was a thrill seeker. If they previously tested it all the thrill would've been gone. I mean we still get huge thrills from rollercoasters and we know those are safe, but he didn't consider that. He also sadly didn't think what would happen if the experiment failed. Unless this guy turns out to be a pedophile or something I'll still feel sorry for him since he seemed like a nice guy, no matter how stupid.
Its bowling for colombine all over again, blaming videogames and heavy metal music for "the young violent generations" but now people are blaming tv series and movies on "the young incredulous generations"... whats next, BLAMING MENTAL DISORDERS, BAD PARENTING, SOCIAL PRESSURE AND BULLYING?!
The way a lot of people use triggered is not the correct way to use it. We see a lot of people today used "I'm triggered" as a way to show that they're offended by something. In actuality, being triggered by something means that you experience something that causes you to have a flashback or brings up a past emotion (if you are talking about mental illness). A former soldier with PTSD could be triggered by the sound of a gunshot. It's actually a very serious topic and shouldn't be joked about.
Like as a former self harmer the sight of blood or blades triggers me. Not in the way of "Omg I'm sooo triggered lol" but more in the way of "Hey, I'd rather not see that because it brings up bad memories"
Caroline Zambo agreed. In my school district, a young woman in middle school took her life and nobody talked about it but when 13 reasons why came out, they gave us a letter to take home about signs of depression and suicidal thoughts. Just saying. And it also made me mad when they ignored the suicide of that girl btw.
As someone that has struggled quite a bit with EDs and occasionally still does, I think it's great that something like this movie is being produced. Awareness and conversation will play a pivotal role in ending the stigma around mental illness as a whole, as well as the equally problematic romanticization of it, I believe. That said, I know that I won't personally be able to watch it. I know the word "trigger" gets thrown around a lot and that no one takes it seriously anymore, but watching or reading things like this really can spur weeklong periods of intensified mental struggle or even relapse for me, and I'm exceptionally thankful for things like the much ridiculed "trigger warnings" as such. Now, I know that many not make sense to a lot of people, but everyone can be affected by different things, and this is actually one of the only "triggers" I have. Discussing it doesn't affect me at all-but experiencing it through fiction does. I get very invested in my fiction and tend to immerse myself in the minds of the characters, and so experiencing those particular struggles vicariously all over again through them really does redouble my own, even long after I've turned the show off or put the book down, and especially if it's been a while since I'd last had those thoughts and urges. I do briefly check just about everything I watch and read beforehand, while still trying to avoid spoilers, to help guard myself against that where I can-my EDs are no longer a daily struggle, so avoiding things that I know will bring them back when they're absent makes sense, does it not? While most of the time things like that will be mentioned with regard to the works right away, sometimes, it is imbedded quite deeply in them, or it's a spoiler itself, and looking up a synopsis won't tell me it's there before it's too late. The warnings make it much easier to avoid very nasty surprises. For that reason, I'm always very thankful when a show or book or film warns me ahead of time-it just helps me to avoid what I know will be very bad for me.
The guidelines of portrayal of suicide? What does that even amount to, plausible deniability for those who aren't suicidal when the topic is brought up? The societally appropriate amount of knee jerk reaction instead of an honest look? One of the best references to suicide I've ever seen in a mainstream production was Doug Stanhope in the show Louis. It isn't dark, it's hardly even bleak, it's just honest. As someone who's been plagued by depression from my teenage years on the reason given there of just not wanting anything anymore, of just feeling devoid of desire, and almost fatal level of apathy, resonated in a powerful way. Even 13RW, I haven't seen it but I get the mindset being criticized; suicide in some manner an act of vengeance, retribution for wrongs that won't be righted in life. Is that what everyone feels? No. But I'd wager those are the thoughts a lot of truly depressed, ideation having people go through when they're actually making that choice between life and death. It's patronizing and downright shitty the way suicide is presented, hug box everyone and keep telling them there's so much to live for, it gets better, it's such a pointless and tragic situation. Make yourself feel better while telling someone whose thoughts are powerful enough to override their own survival instincts to smile, like somehow a bit of positive thinking is going to overpower a mountain of futility, self-doubt, self-hatred, apathy, anxiety, etc. If anything, the reaction to this show is probably just another good coating of stigmatization for those who are actually contemplating cashing out. What a great idea, a show tries to take an honest enough look at a problem and you say talking about the problem breeds it, that the mentality shown is wrong or not what "real" suicidal people go through, they stick to the portrayal guidelines. At least the depressed and suicidal seldom ever hide the severity of their problems because stigmatization and their own self-loathing and crippled self-esteem make them almost inherently mistrustful and ashamed to admit to anyone else they're dealing with a serious condition. Oh, wait...
for real. you know netflix has inappropriate material yet you continue to pay for account and allow your kids to have password. i remember child blocker for skinamax when i was young. be a parent people.
I am someone who lived with a secret eating disorder for 9 years. Because of the strong stigma around ED, I thought I would live my whole life with this shameful secret. I opened up about my ED after reading an article that depicted another person's battle with this disease. Now I am in recovery and I think that it is important for shows like these to bring difficult issues into everyday conversation so that people can feel safer to talk about what they are going through.
as a person who has gone through depression and has attempted suicide, i did find 13 reasons why upsetting, however i knew what i was getting myself into and i felt that this show helped to bring up conversation with my family and help them understand more about social settings in school and the events that drive a person to commit suicide. however i don't agree with how they portrayed it in the series, i feel it should've been more linked with depression than it was and it shouldn't have made the main character place blame on others for what was ultimately her decision...this is just my opinion tho based on my personal struggle with depression and suicide attempts
lol...In the medical community, I have honestly never seen Eating Disorders being referred to as ED because of the earlier designation of Erectile Dysfunction. LOL. We just mostly refer to the eating disorder by it's specific name....Anorexia Nervosa, Bulimia etc
... a .50 cal can kill anything on this goddamn planet and they decided to try to stop it with a book. A book. This is why gun safety courses are important.
Miranda G This is why GUN LAWS are important lmao. How did these idiot kids get ahold of a goddamn pocket cannon?? Absolutely ridiculous. Kids with guns.
This is using a scapegoat to push the blame on something else so they don't have to take responsibility or step back and take a look at themselves or where they possibly failed to notice changes in their children. Blaming a tv show for how your child behaves is reckless. Take responsibility and bring awareness to mental illnesses and it's ramifications.
Lyndsie Daniels I'd argue they give an incredibly graphic and in depth look at alcoholism and bipolar disorder with Frank, Monica, Ian, and Lip. I understand I'm sort of comparing apples to oranges but where do we draw the line with this? Nearly every show out there these days addresses topics that could be considered triggering or harmful to any number of people. If the entertainment industry catered to every single group, being sure not to offend or trigger anyone, we'd have absolutely no content to watch and no one would ever learn or grow or expand their mind on new topics. The show opened up a great conversation for me and my 15 year old brother about how to treat people and about depression and suicide. Lots of other people have had similar experiences. It's not all bad. Proper warnings were put on the show there was an entire extra episode addressing the topic...ultimately that is all they can do. Like I said, where does the line get drawn?
Everyone knows 13 reasons why was a book before right? Its target audience was teens and it raised awareness for a topic that was rarely talked about at the time. It was released in 2007 and from what I remember of school, there was little suicide education. Only in the following years (around 2013-2014) did I start seeing support clubs finally pop up. This is one of the many books, media and actual suicides that helped my community start taking this problem seriously. Suicide is now on everyones radar, and while this may have given some young adults ideas about it, to blame the show is absolutely ridiculous. I dont want to point blame on the parents because it is hardly ever one problem with suicide cases but blaming a tv series is just blind and ignorant....there has never been and never will be a tv show that is the direct cause of somebodies suicide. People are tougher than that and to say that the show is to blame is to degrade and dismiss what these two girls really went through.
_Jamison_ THANK YOU! It all start with educating your children about the subject. I'm 21 years old, ever since I was a pre-teen I've seen R rated films, tv series and entertaiment and you don't see me shooting schools or killing people because I was taught many things in my home about the things that I'm suppose to do or not. Educating and talking to your children is what helps them to not make stupid decisions. Blaming shows for people committing suicide is like saying that guns are what kill people. People are what kill people, by making dumb decisions. Suicide is a serious topic that parents should talk about to their children, but instead they're just giving them smartphones and raising ignorants.
The book was much better than the show of showing the emotional void left by Hannah's loss and the deep sense of shame amongst the people who the tapes were addressed to. Hannah's decision wasn't depicted as positive because you see that all that is left in her wake was this insurmountable sense of loss and grief and regret. The TV show seemed to be more about distinguishing who was a "good guy" and who was a "bad guy" and treated Hannah getting to kill herself as a well-earned justice (example: the scene with triumphant music where Hannah walks out of the school for the last time having made the decision to kill herself).
The book did not have the graphic rape and suicide scenes depicted in the show, which is what is being blamed for being "triggering". You're kind of missing the point.
It is up to EACH person who chooses to watch it to determine if they can handle the show or not. If their judgement is wrong and they get triggered, that is NOT on Netflix and NO ONE has the right to hold Netflix responsible for the way SOME people react to their shows. PARENTS should be more involved and aware of what their kids are watching instead of relying on networks and companies like Netflix to do their JOB as parents.
You are definitely correct. But is it really right for Netflix to make these programmes and exploit these topics for monetary gain? Because that is what they do.
@Blind Prosopagnosiac No, I am not. I believe TV series and films can be very useful when raising awareness of issues, but I do not think they should be the only source of awareness around a topic. I am fully aware that Netflix CAN make series about these topics (and from a business perspective I definitely see why they do, just look at all the attention they are getting!), but I am question whether they SHOULD because they are threading some murky waters morally by exploiting issues like these and quite possibly worsening the situation. I fully believe that 13RW might have inspired somebody to commit suicide, even though I do not think there is much to sue Netflix about because of the reasons mentioned by the first poster. And is that right? Making content which definitely has aided somebody in taking their own life?
I know this is old but, they did show her depression. The fact that you didn't see it shows how suicidal people look to those who don't know what to look for; she was doing outrageous and self damaging behavior - distancing herself from friends, not doing things that had previously made her happy, blaming herself for things that had happened that weren't her fault - and then her silence. Then when she did try to reach out for help she was told she was over reacting, maybe she gave him the wrong idea etc - so yeah. Her depression was shown, her depression was shown exactly as how it's shown in real life....
The mere display of something does not automatically "glorify" what is depicted. This has been a repeating pattern in recent years. We need to see "bad" things to know where we stand on these issues. Sweeping these topics under the rug does no one any good. Of course, there will always be people who completely miss the point of these stories and glorify them, see how some people treat dystopian stories as "good examples" and do exactly what the story warned about.
Anorexia is such a unique and complicated illness. As someone who was hospitalised aged 17 then sent to rehab at age 18 for anorexia this film and the very likely negative impact it will have worries me. When I was very ill, and I know this is the case for other sufferers, I glorified and looked up to people who were sicker than me. I watched documentaries and read books by people who had recovered and focused on the parts of the stories where the author talked about being ill, talked about the lengths they went to, talked about tricks they developed to lose weight or deceive their family/carers. I ignored the part where they talked about its devastating impact, I didn't care, the illness doesn't care. I couldn't possibly say that this is a film that shouldn't be shown, but it's just so, so complicated. Depicting suicide in TV or film isn't necessarily harmful or triggering. But for someone suffering from anorexia or bulimia any depiction is used as fuel. Which is tragic, because then how do we talk about it and fight against it? I don't have the answers, but this whole thing just feels pretty stressful because I know that if this came out when I was ill I would have watched and rewatched it, made notes, felt validated... I just can't help but feel deeply sad about the fact that there will be a huge amount of people who will do just this.
These are excellent points, thank you for sharing your experiences. I just wanted to add that depictions of suicide do cause copycat suicides. They can provide sufferers with concrete plans and motivation. People who are suicidal are most at risk once they've moved from general suicidal thoughts to an actual plan. Talking about suicide should be welcomed but depicting it or providing too many details should be avoided. Suicidal people tend to ignore the "you won't see the pain/drama/trauma you inflict on those around you". You won't feel vidicated or "at peace". You're just dead (as far as we know). I feel like 13RW, by showing the victim influencing events after her death, sends a really damaging message.
monkyvirus iactually agree with you on your last point. In seeing the impact that "Hannah" had on the lives of those who she blamed for her decision would make other suicidal people who have actually moved into the planning stage feel like they want to inflict that sort of reaction from people who they feel like she made them. Thanks, ididnt think about this point at first. That's why I feel that parents or teachers should watch this show with their children etc.. so that there could be a conversation because even though the creators of the show might have intended to make one point, it can be interpreted in so many other different ways
Nia I appreciate your take on it and I definitely empathize with your concerns. I also had an eating disorder which I honestly continue to suffer with, so I feel the pain of those who suffer or have suffered. But it worries me more to have censorship towards a taboo subject that doesn't get much attention beyond maybe talking about it in health class at school. I have felt so isolated and ashamed of my disorder, and I'm personally grateful for more light to be shed on it. Censoring media isn't and should never be the solution. At some point we all need to take responsibility for our actions, and I blame no one for my relapses, no one for my effort to hide it, no one for escalating it. Those were my choices. Sure they were choices of someone mentally ill, but I'd rather give myself the power to get help when I need it than feel powerless in my impulses because some show gave me more tips to do something I know is bad for me. Just my take on it as a fellow sufferer of an ED
I agree with you, but I also feel it's important for shows/movies like this to be made and shown (if portrayed correctly). I was diagnosed with an eating disorder at 15 and could never tell my family before it was too late. They all had this mindset that by starving yourself, you were weak minded, and you were choosing to do it for attention. They couldn't grasp the concept that someone could be hurting so much inside, and be filled with such self loathing, that they went to extreme measures to change their body. My mother only finally caught a glimpse when I went to see my therapist, who had also struggled with anorexia, and she shared a little about how it was like. Since then my mom always watches videos/documentaries about eating disorders/mental illness, so she can be more informed and look for warning signs. It sucks that people who struggle with these types of things will only use this to reason with themselves and take further action, but people with misconceptions about diseases like this should also be informed. Such a sticky situation.
That bit doesn't matter, if you don't know you don't know. However, what idiot tries it first with a person behind the book rather than say the ground...
God forbid we encounter topics that make us uncomfortable or make us think. For crying out loud. This makes me feel like all of those people who say that we coddle people too much might have a point.
The real criticism from professionals is that 1. You should NEVER show the actual suicide to impressionable teens and 2. That you should NEVER show the suicide having positive results (I.E. accomplishing a goal). The producers of the show were given this information and ignored it.
I have to disagree with your opinion on 13 reasons why. The show breaks every rule on reporting on suicide. There are many ways to talk about these kinda things and I think we should talk about them. But we must make sure to talk about them in a way that doesn’t put people in danger.
They definitely should have tested that "stunt" NOT with a living person first. That's the thing about stunts, the first time you see it, is not the first time it's performed, you hone it until it's safe.
pero like, GoT does have these warnings aka Viewer Discretion cards before each episode and they list what type of shit you'll be seeing in the episode lmao
I suffer from suicidal thoughts and severe depression. I felt that 13 reasons why could be potentially triggering so I never watched it. I do not believe these shows should be blocked from release because they engage people in hard conversations that need to be had. Trigger warnings are enough. In the end, I am responsible for my own decisions.
I agree, I think that the show has trigger warnings where it needs to, like the rape scenes. Going into the show, its subject matter is well known but those scenes are not something as expected and both are graphic. It was also important to have a warning for the scene she ends her life which is graphic as well and upsetting even if you don't suffer from depression or suicidal thoughts. If the show is something that you know might be triggering, I agree that you need to make the decision to forgo the show.
Diana Gutierrez I do feel for him, as I have gone thru suicidal thoughts and depression. But I think a "trigger warning" is bullshit. What people going through these things really need to do is avoid tv and go out and stay in nature for a while, in a tent or cabin and camp for a 3 or 4 weeks if possible. It helped me alot.
I want to know if the weapon was discharged in or around the apartment building they stayed at. Like what was the thought process? We'll discharge a firearm and when the neighbors and police come we'll just tell them how it was for a youtube video.. They obviously had no training in gun safety or gun law at all. And a story I read says there are no plans to release the video to the public at this time, which makes me wonder if they decided a snuff video would go viral on youtube and make them money, which is also illegal to post.. Just.. So much stupid.
They didn't even need to test it. Its been tested multiple times on RUclips already. After only 3 min of research I found it takes about 1200 pages of paper to stop a 50AE round and Im guessing the book they used probably had 200-300 pages. While if feel very bad for the kids I am going to give these 2 the Darwin award and say nothing of importance was lost.
After a guy "accidentally" shoot himself in the head, in front of a streaming video, you would think that somebody take some lesson about the danger of a firearm...
Or maybe not hold the book in front of their body. There are tons of ways to prevent something like that, even for people who have no idea what will happen.
or you know, maybe just don't point/shoot a gun anywhere near or at a person in the first place. Common fucking sense. How did these kids even get a gun in the first place would be my first question.
No my friend, Darwinism is about removing yourself from the human gene pool before reproducing!! In that matter your make the human race better by not passing on your genes!!!
I love you, Philip. A few years ago, I was pretty fucking depressed. I suffer depression. I was ready to walk in front of a train. Because of an unintended outburst at a nurse during a physical, I ended up seeing a psychologist. He helped me through that time. Now it's come back 'round again, and I'm thinking about meeting that train. My psychologist and I are discussion better options. Thank you for urging people suffering these self-harming thoughts to seek help.
Its so cool when the thumbnail breaks... lol Hope y'all are having a good Wednesday :)
Philip DeFranco lol
Philip DeFranco love ya anyways!
Wait what happened
Philip DeFranco am I the only one that was hoping the guy stole the ice cream?
*Investing RUclipsr, huge RUclips experiment coming at 500 subscribers*
totally agree with you about the Netflix issue
Ultimately, it's your choice whether you watch something or not. If it sounds like it will be emotionally distressting to you don't watch it.
When someone is depressed it can be difficult to know whether a show will be triggering or helpful. Depending on how the show is handled it could go either way.
Good thing there is a trigger warning then. Can't be less difficult than that
TheLittleThings that why shows like this have people who review, no matter what the show is, you can always get an idea about it before watching it, no excuses
I wasn't trying to move responsibility away from the individual, just pointing out it's not as simple as people like to make out. Personally I struggled after watching 13RW but it didn't cross my mind it would be an issue beforehand. It was the way the show was handled that was the issue, not that it was about suicide in the first place. At the same time some people will have found it helpful. I don't blame the show for the fact I struggled with it but it's not always as simple as just not watching something.
TheLittleThings well don't watch things that could upset you
While I don't think the show "glamorized" suicide or made it "poetic" and "beautiful," they sort of made it a revenge tactic to get back at anyone who's ever wronged you. Plus, I hate that one episode where Clay keeps telling everyone that "the reason Hannah died was because I couldn't save her." Love might make a depressed person feel a bit better, but it can't cure mental illness completely...
Willow S it's aimed at teens so of course they would put false information in
I haven't seen it, but from everything I know, it seems like at the end of the day, she's just as bad or worse than the bullies. Leaving tapes like that makes it sound like she didn't kill herself because she was depressed, but rather as an act of revenge. With the tapes, it's almost like she's killing herself in hopes that they will do the same out of guilt.
I've suffered from suicidal thoughts all my life due to being bullied at school and the teachers telling me to just ignore it, claiming "sticks and stones may brake your bones but names will never hurt you". well that's a lie they stick with you for the rest of your life and has caused me to have social anxiety. I've been rejected from jobs because I went shoplifting once when I was 13 and can't be trusted to work in a retail environment. the last time it happened was the British heart foundation, I was 36 and volunteering as part of a job centre scheme to get something recent on my cv. I've been in the job centre explaining my problems asking for help and all they could say was "why don't you do it then?" "if it was worth doing you'd just do it". often revenge has been in my mind whilst having suicidal thoughts. but I know that it wouldn't do anything, I've seen posts on fb of kids that have committed due to bullying and people just make excuses "oh they were just a troubled child" and such. yeah they were troubled they were being bullied and not getting help from the people that are supposed to be there to help.
+The Brennan or that attention will be drawn to her plight and maybe something will actually happen even though it's to late for her.
I hate Hannah in this series, she killed herself and made those tapes to guilt and get revenge on the people who “did this” to her. I believe a couple of them deserved it, but others like Clay, or that other kid who she only put on the tape because he stole her bunny pictures, are not responsible for her. That’s what pissed me off about the show.
The real problem is... when will Phil ever solve the rubix cube behind him?
Sir_Connor17 one like equals one prayer for Philly D to finish that cube
Sir_Connor17 Maybe if he completes it it make him feel incomplete
#solvethecube
That generally bugs me.
My only problem with 13 reasons why is how they took almost all the responsibility away from Hannah and put it on everyone else. I struggle with similar problems as her and through therapy and other programs I've learned you can't go around blaming the world for everything otherwise you will never be satisfied. You will always expected other people to solve your problems for you, not help you. And, as much as I hate to say it there was a lot of bad choices Hannah made and thats the truth about it, there was a lot of situations she could had avoided if she just *stopped to think.* Am I saying it was her fault completely? Of course not, shit happens sometimes. But my problem is that 13 Reasons Why failed to show the flaws in Hannah and the thinking errors she had. _When you blame everything on everyone else you take away the responsibility from the person themselves._ *Theres a difference wanting support from people and flat out wanting them to do it for you.*
I agree and I think the show meant to address that, but never really went in depth. I hope they do in Season 2.
Exactly!
Thank you! Somebody said it!
I mean but even the characters mentioned plenty of times the flaws in Hannah's thinking and actions. It's just they emphasis her pain, struggle and suicide so that we (the audience) sympathize and see her more as the victim (which she was in many cases tho). However, I can totally see your reason for thinking that.
orzvsirie I agree with you to some degree, but I think what Amanda was getting at was that the show failed to display the fact that Hannah was mentally ill- she clearly had signs of depression (however some find these signs difficult to spot). I am also currently in therapy, and one of the main things we work on is recognising that my (and Hannah's) thoughts are thinking 'errors'. Hannah needed to seek help, not blame others, and there is a difference between emphasising for the audience, and false advertising.
Amanda, you made an excellent point and it was said very well :)
I suffer from bulimia, and at the end of the day, it's all me. I have to work to overcome triggers. It's not the worlds duty to appeal to me.
amsayyy hope u overcome this struggle in your life
amsayyy What's bulimia
Maahir Momtaz googling thing takes less then a minute
amsayyy I've had bulimia for years, but thankfully I have an amazing family and friends they helped me through it. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to go through. Feeling like shit all the time and feeling like I'm completely alone. I never kept food down. I know exactly what you're going through. You will get through this just like I did. Get help, talk to a close friend or family member. Having support is what saved me. I hope you're doing better, bulimia is so overlooked I feel like but you are not alone.
I struggled from anorexia and I completely agree. I wouldn't watch it personally, but if it helps someone else great.
So why WATCH IT THEN. I had a friend who committed suicide I've heard rave reviews about 13 reasons why but I just cudnt fathom watching it as it would bring up the past. Just simply don't watch then!
kingtoyab69 well yeah, that's what I did. I personally chose to STOP watching as I myself was near the brink of suicide and after hearing how detailed it was, I did not watch it. I didn't choose to watch it because I thought that, in watching it, I thought I was going to commit suicide, but rather I didn't want to be reminded of the ways I felt. I don't believe in these people complaining about the movie because I myself don't think that the show would be stopped as the show deals with an extremely sensitive subject.
kingtoyab69 pussy
kingtoyab69 also one should note that 13 reasons why is included in Netflix’ binge worth tv section
I am a teenager who was in a dark place starting "13 Reasons Why" and the show really did scare me straight. I saw that people around me would be affected if I died and that it was not something I wanted to put others through. I think these shows are extremely important because they may just save another kid like me struggling with a serious disease.
I am so happy to hear that it has helped you instead of bringing you down. (:
Addis0n i have lost someone to suicide, I dont know you but thank you so so so much for realizing this, it affects so many more people than you would ever realize, thank you so much
This comment needs to be showcased!
Thank you. I really needed to hear that rn
Addis0n I'm so glad you realized suicide is not the only option. I'm sure there are many people who love you. Besides that I'm also sure you have so much to give to this world. If you find yourself in that space again please talk to someone or reach out to an organization that can help. There is nothing wrong with seeking help. It takes a strong person to do that. I wish you all the best and respect your willingness to share
I read 13 reasons why when I was in high school and dealing with horrible depression. I initially sided with the girl but soon came to realize that I hated that the girl blamed anyone but herself for killing her self. Depression, while it can be a mentor illness, is no ones fault. Each person is the only one who can individually fight their own depression. I hate the story and I think that it gives a terrible message to those struggling with depression
The scene where she kills herself, oh that scene... If there's anything that makes me want to never kill myself it's that scene...
very true. it looks incredibly painful and sad, even if you were so depressed and hated yourself it makes you realise that's not how you want to go
8-Bit Ramen i wanted to kill myself so many Times and when i watched the show and that scene came up I literally imagined what if that was me and my parents found me like this. I often think of that scene and it made me realize that I don't want to go like this.
and the fact is, triggers are everywhere but you gotta accept living with them. (I'm 20 now and recovering from anorexia and fighting with depression and anxiety)
Exactly!
8-Bit Ramen although I agree, the show also showcases others who hurt her going through immense pain which can be interpreted as successful "revenge". As if they got what they deserved when she killed herself, which may push people to do the same.
8-Bit Ramen The creators of the show specifically changed Hannah's suicide from the book. Originally in the book, Hannah kills herself by overdosing on pills, but the creators felt that by doing this it was insinuating that death was an easy way out. So they changed the scene so that it was hard for viewers to watch.
The directors of these TV shows want to tell stories, some stories will cover sensitive topics such as these and its okay. The media has avoided these topics for far too long now and I see it as a good thing that we do recognize these things exist. Obviously before watching these things, you need to make the decision of whether you can handle it or not YOURSELF. We can't keep censoring society from this stuff and act like these things aren't issues in our world.
Totally agree. We can't begin to deal with these things as a society or as individuals if we have to shut off everything that might touch a nerve. Honestly, I think this idea, that we need to somehow make the world less confronting for the people who are struggling, instead of focusing on helping those people become strong enough to face the world that we all ultimately have to deal with, is actually pretty counter-productive.
Mxrvel trigger warnings aren't censoring, and the only way you can make an informed decision about whether or not you can handle the content of the show is to be notified on content warnings. I actually much prefer the term content warnings...
im not at all against content warnings, i think they should definitely be there if the content is sensitive
Mxrvel no I didn't think your comment indicated being against trigger warnings, just wanted to put that in there :)
Nah. It's the reason why american kids are fucked up. Too much negative shit on TV. lol
13 reasons why actually encouraged me to talk to my mom about my suicidal thoughts and now we are much closer :).
Golden Mermaid Good for you! :)
max howard that was not necessary. if you're trying to be funny its not working.
Golden Mermaid that's amazing i'm so happy for you :)
Golden Mermaid good for you opening up like that is very hard I'm happy for you
max howard your so grim
These prank videos need to stop. How can you possibly think that shooting a pistol designed to tear through light armour into your chest with a book in front is a good idea? I have little sympathy with youtubers doing such ridiculous things.
Exactly, these individuals are a good example of the definition of 'Insanity'. The Desert Eagle is basically a symbol in its own right, by being the most potent handgun in the world, and with that in mind, this wasn't done in ignorance. Both of them are (were) literally insane.
not even light armor. A 50 cal round can tear through plate carrier plates. Even a standard issue police kevlar vest wouldnt likely stopped the bullet from that range.
Darwin award
Aerial J Easy he obviously saw jackass too much.
I honestly don't understand people who are complaining about these shows. If talking about it triggers people, then not talking about it doesn't bring a solution either. These producers are doing their best to start a conversation and instead of supporting them on their efforts we want them to stop. I noticed this on my own channel, I wrote a song about suicide and it became my most disliked video. I never understood why but now I can see that it isn't just me who gets dislikes when talking about these subjects.
simply just don't watch the show lol
agree
It's a garbo show
Because tumblr and snapchat feminists glorify these things
Lulu Sapphire h
No one has ever blamed breaking bad for their meth addiction.
ziah Reid But at least Breaking bad was a good show
LOL
This. I smoked meth WAY before I watched BrBa.
i think the show is just weeding out the weak
Breaking Bad tended to attract pretty intelligent viewers, so that makes sense.
Netflix has parental controls. The parents might want to use them.
peonyfrills or watch the show with their children and talk through the issues. But that would mean that the parents would have to actually be a parent..
peonyfrills you do realize that teenagers will find a way to do the things they want? and that strictness is only a motivator for rebellion? parents can't possibly monitor everything they do and they shouldn't.
I have not seen 13 reasons why because as a person who suffers from mental illness i feel this would be upsetting and triggering to me. So, I don't watch it. Because you know, i'm a responsible adult. The world isn't responsible to shield me from things i might find upsetting so it is my responsibility to avoid them when i can and learn to handle things when i can't.
Nope_Nope_Nope that's not really the point of why it's problematic. it's not "huur I'm triggered" it's the fact that they don't even remotely mention mental illness or depression at all which make up 90% of the people who commit suicide, and plays up a revenge fantasy. it's bad because they completely miss the mark on suicide and the actual depth and unwellness behind it, not because its upsetting to watch. Ive survived two suicide attempts and have both severe generalized anxiety disorder and major depression, have watched the whole show, and while it CAN be hard to watch, (edit and note, I was not emotionally effected by the "harder to watch" scenes) its just toting a false claim of being "accurate and realistic" whilst ignoring the most important thing about suicide they should not have left out. I hope this makes sense.
Nope_Nope_Nope I'm glad to hear that last part
Sophie Bancroft
100% right, I think that's what the issue is.
Nope_Nope_Nope triggering intensifies!!!!
Personally I think it's "problematic" for what Sophie said. It plays up the revenge fantasy. Teens who commit suicide often write notes blaming other people and its sort of a "you didn't give a shit and now I'm dead so it's your fault" type thing. Teens who watch this may not see some of the deeper themes adults can see and may see this as a method of achieving their goals of finally getting the attention they believe they deserve.
Netflix has absolutely no liability in this. People should be aware of what they and their kids are watching - there's a reason Netflix provides descriptions for each movie and show they have on the site. If you decide to watch something, then it's on you. As someone who has been in recovery from anorexia since 2013, and who feels very secure in said recovery, I'm aware that I might find To The Bone triggering, so I'll watch it with that in mind. However, the fact that it MIGHT be triggering isn't a reason to not watch it - ANYTHING can be a trigger. I'm very happy the movie has been made, as it'll have the potential to bring the struggles of ED to a broader amount of people, and I feel it might even push those struggling to seek help.
Amen! We shouldn't need to post a warning for every little thing when they're literally stories about suicide and anorexia. People should expect to be triggered if they're the type to get triggered. Like "okay, I'm kind of suicidal, I should take it easy watching 13 Reason's Why, maybe be sure to watch it with a good friend"
Question: what does triggering really mean, and how can it potentially harm the viewer?
Yeah, but let's be honest the show was made for teens. Idk if you have seen the actual show but the way it was produced and handled and marketed, it was targeting the teenager CW type of audience.
The title card isn't gonna stop shit and Netflix just puts it there to cover their ass for legal purposes.
BUT MUH SAFE SPACE!!!
I started taking Chemistry after Breaking Bad and I started looking at mom differently after reading Oedipus Rex . We should ban all sorts of medium cause you know just to be safe.
People think these are problems wait till the next world war starts. You sheep aren't ready.
The "Out of sight, out of mind" approach to sensitive, difficult issues is not the answer. We need to be confronted with the ugliness of this world so that we can start a conversation and eventually shatter the stigmas that are associated with EDs and other mental illnesses.
I think it glamorises it but in a different way. They made it seem like Hannah's choice was beautiful and she got what she wanted because she went through with it. They didn't make much effort to show that Hannah's choice was wrong because almost everyone on the tapes agreed that they were in the wrong. I made a video about it, in short I agree that movies and shows with themes like this SHOULD be made. However, It's necessary to show both sides of the same story and people need to be taught that each experience will be different so you can't remove things from life but learn to accept and move on from them or just ignore them at the most.
I agree. I think some of it also is the fact that she wanted revenge for the people that wronged her by saying it's all they're fault she's gone which not only seems selfish to me as a character trait but it also makes her seem like she didn't do anything wrong herself. If she reflected on herself and tried to change to some degree. At least seeing her try would've made me connect more with the character. A lot of what Happened was, bad things happened, she went to see the councilor once and expected him to come running for her and then when he didn't she took that as the last straw. There seemed to be no internal conflict and if there was then we didn't see it that often on screen.
It's not "necessary" for an artist to show any side of a situation...
They, being human beings, are free to express ANY view they please.
If someone needs a trigger warning on their art, then they should be committed as NOTHING in this world will be safe enough for them...
What happened to if you don't like it don't watch it?
The second we start requiring people's art to reflect full and complete, realistic, depictions... Is the exact second art dies.
(The one benefit to that is that it would force real artists to go underground, and thus produce art that is many times greater... AS IT IS REBELLING AGAINST FASCISM.)
Bob Smothers I don't not like it because it's triggering. I just don't think they did well at developing the characters and kind of made it seem like she wasn't at fault in any situations.
So we cannot have films about suicide or EDs but we have films about murder, rape, camming, drugs, alcohol?
How often do you think a recovering addict or alcoholic is "triggered" by watching any modern programming?
if you know something will have a trigger in it, avoid it! If you are suicidal and watch a show about suicide don't blame the show for making you suicidal!!!
What's camming?
Alovatololo cam girl I think.
Or maybe they could just warn people, like holy shit, why does it bother you?
Alovatololo it's exactly that, and really not that bad of thing I don't know why it was included in a list of drugs alcohol and murder.
Arian hmn they DO warn people, fuck its in the title and the description if you still decide to watch it that's on you! not the show.
this is actually infuriating. I have ptsd from my mother dying of cancer in front of my eyes and do you know how many god damn movies shove that shit in my face? Yes, it is triggering, but I accept that it is a movie, and I do not blame them for showing a real thing people struggle with as long as it is done responsibly. by trying to stop the shows with the anorexia and shit in it you are making the subject matter more taboo.
LuigiTheHeadcrab Deep respect for your opinion. I wholeheartedly agree with you.
I agree, saying something is inappropriate subject matter for a show or movie just makes it seem that much less appropriate to talk about with someone who could help you through the problem you're having.
LuigiTheHeadcrab late condolences to you. But at least your mother can now rest and no longer suffer from that horrible diseases. :(
I agree wholeheartedly, it's like sex eds too. The more society acts like it's something so taboo to talk about, more people would end up falling victim to the consequences from the lack of knowledge about it.
LuigiTheHeadcrab On the other hand, to be honest, I got a lot of tips and tricks from books and movies meant to raise awareness of eating disorders. My understanding is that Netflix didn't follow some advice they were given about how to make the show less triggering so that's definitely something they should analyze before continuing production.
People need these shows. When I was 11 or 12, I used to hide my food all of the time. Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner. I always hid them. I didn't even know that was WRONG at that age, I just thought I wasn't hungry. Parents assume their kids know these things, but they don't.
As someone who deals with depression and anxiety on a daily basis watching 13 Reasons Why gave me a strange feeling because, it didn't show the truly bad lows that come along with this mental illness. Although some people may be feeling the exact same way Hannah did in the show so I am open to hearing about that side of it, just personally from my experience the show felt inaccurate with how depression was portrayed.
Agreed. As someone who has struggled with depression and anxiety for over a decade, Hannah was not relatable. More to the point, I got very angry with Hannah and felt that she put herself in many unnecessary situations...She knew what kind of person Bryce was, so...why would you stay in the hot tub? Or go to the party at all when all of these people have screwed you over (in your mind)? I also had an issue with that fact that the tapes implied that Hannah killed herself because of what these people did...No mention of mental illness and again, much of what happened could have been avoided by her making different choices. I don't know. I wouldn't say that I was triggered, but I was frustrated. Selena Gomez never went to a real high school and it shows here. It was not relatable.
Selena Gomez did not write this, she is just a producer. It is based on a book. Also from what I can tell it seems to be more of a story about how a suicide impacts those around you. Finally talking about different choices...like the choice not to watch it.
Daryl B "If you don't like it , don't watch it" this is the dumbest argument ever. One needs to watch a show to comment and have an opinion on it. Why's that so hard to understand?
Oh god! SHE LEFT THE TAPES! IN HER MIND, THOSE PEOPLE WERE THE REASON SHE KILLED HERSELF! why will she address shitty things like mental health? It's not even remotely existing in her world. If she was so cognisant, she would have got help instead of killing herself. It's a story about a foolish teenager! That's all! A STORY! Not all stories need to send a moral message!! Omg
I know a friend who was very close to taking their own life before watching this show. Once they had watched it they changed. They realized the consequences and the effects of that choice and changed.
Anecdotal. There are people who killed themselves and left 13 notes just like the show with objective evidence to back it. Besides, you don't know what they realized, you know whatever they told you. You have no clue what they are actually thinking or feeling.
And neither do you Inkspot. It's entirely possible that the show helped the individual in question. It's also entirely possible that the show has nothing to do with their emotional change. Neither of us have any idea about their life.
Aiden Bettinger they should still seek professional help
Inkspot - Hypothetical. Where are the links to stories about people doing that?
If someone can come to terms with their issues by themselves then why push them into professional help? I'm just saying, sometimes it does more harm than good.
I am SOOOO sick of the "They saw it on TV!" excuse. This was such a thing in the 90s and it was just as stupid back then. People need to create art that opens a dialogue, you can't just push something into the shadows because it shows something too real for you.
James Chaffee it's like cashing video games cause mass shootings, ridiculous
As a person with multiple diagnosed mental disorders, along with severe anxiety and depression, who is getting psycholohical and phyciatric help, I appreciate series that shed a light on what it is like for someone who has an 'invisible illness'. My sister was strongly against me getting the help and medicin i needed, because she thought that depression was just me being lazy and anxiety was just a lack of confidense, but after watching the series '13 reasons why' she talked to me and we were able to connect and are now much closer because of it and she fully supports the help i am getting.
I watched the show prior to letting my daughter watching it. I decided to not allow her to watch 13 reasons why due to it being too mature for her and the content being too focused on blaming others for their suicide. I decided to allow her to watch it when she is old enough but we have had a lot of conversations about suicide and thankfully the show brought that opportunity up that i would never would of had without the show.
@Drinks Home yep
I'm sick of parents who try to censor things that "offend" them. We can't just hide art because people are afraid their kids will see it. Parents need to be responsible for their children. Graphic content that is meant to draw emotion will always exist. It's a story, just like a book, it has the right to be made and expressed.
This is exactly how I feel. Good comment.
Plus this isn't for kids, it's TVMA
Jay HM I've had two friends in the hospital for suicidal tendencies. Both were admitted shortly after watching the series. People with suicidal tendencies WILL flock to those shows, so that they can feel accepted and normal despite their depression or anxiety. But this isn't a good thing, it only drives them further down a dark path.
It's why you have things like abstinence only education.
Exactly, and if you are aware that your child is going through a mental disorder then why are you even letting them watch these kinds of shows??
"Wow I really wish there were more shows about mental illness and disorders. We need more inclusiveness! We need these issues brought to light!"
/Makes show or movie about mental illness/disorder/
"WOW. I'm so triggered by this! How dare you even bring this to my eyes! Cancel this immediately!"
UPVOTE THIS TO THE FUCKING HEAVENS
Ginger Turquoise oh my god. THIS.
I call bullshit on a teen girls knowing how to record a cassette tape in the current year. Very unrealistic.
The show is literally a vigilante drama series.
Ian Victorine it was originally a book that was written 10-ish years ago
Ian Victorine The Internet
all she did was google it
My only problem with 13 Reasons Why is that it's message was "don't bully" instead of "don't commit suicide"
True, maybe it should have been both, other than that tho great show I reckon?
Immortal Kdude only if I can do it right back to you Daddy
Shows like these are what can help make a difference and open the eyes of the public, I fully support shows like 13 reasons why because as a person who has had MDD I think that it comes through with a loud message. I watched the whole season and I was impacted, left in a whole different mindset. Anything can be a trigger to someone who is going through depression and such but I think these shows are what are making the public even MORE aware for the safety of their friends and family. We're making a difference out here and helping others! And for those who are going through a tough time understand that it gets better and its never too late to receive help. Lots of love.
Why wouldn't they Google, "can a bullet go through a book?" Better yet, take the book to a shooting range and test it first! OMG
But most of all, don't shoot a gun at someone you don't intend to kill.
reaeve121 don't shoot a gun at someone at all really
apparently they did a test run on a different book and the bullet didn't penetrate all the way through, so they assumed it would be fine to use the encyclopedia. still a stupid idea though.
I don't believe there is any book that would stop a .50 cal bullet. It is classified as light vehicle ordinance, meaning it can go completely through most vehicles lengthwise. The test run story is unverified and runs counter to physical convention, so I'd mistrust that narrative.
and the fact that they used a desert eagle the most powerful hangun in the world that is designed to blow off entire limbs
even so, add safety precautions (like making it an illusion, holding the book to the side of you) if things did go wrong! there are reasons scientific shows stand like 20 feet away from the gun and like 100 feet away from the target on the opposite side of the direction of the bullet
U know you're early when the thumbnail was Phil talking about his tees
The Cool President yup
No president will be as cool as Coolidge
Bill Clinton was the first black president
Charles Artley William Taft was Thicc af👀
Charles Artley the second cool president then
Being someone who has tried to commit suicide and has been sexually harassed among other things(and being in a part of my life willing to share these experiences) this show helped me alot. The way Hannah felt when she got raped is a feeling I had, that it was my fault and I thought I could never get over it. But with the help of my family and friends, Im slowly gaining the courage to trust people again and deal with the issues I have. That show just showed me how my life could be completly different if I had gone through with my attempts at suicide and Im glad i was never successful. I think more shows should cover the hard aspects of life and show how we can move on and be the best person we can be.
the problem is that humanity doesn't want to face the things in life that aren't happy and fun. When something negative or depressing shows itself people just look the other way and forget.
plus I want to see the new season... so many questions.
Sans Comics exactly. People who blame tv shows is really dumb.
A desert eagle.... A fucking desert eagle. What the fuck.
Weaverbeats Ikr
dude, I swear I was expecting a 9mm or something..........fucking deagle. Bruh.
Can go through a fridge or 3 and keep going but yea a hard cover book will stop the .50
Weaverbeats Clear winner of the Darwin Award
Weaverbeats I guess trying it on the book by itself first was not a thing...gene pool clean up in progress.
That last guy need a "Don't be stupid, stupid" t-shirt, that actually could save his life, what a waste.
and the Florida man needed a Pepsi, he would had never wrote that post.
These stories...
Oh how far humanity has fallen...
If people are triggered by something, avoid it. Nobody is forcing them to watch it. Take responsibility for your own actions; don't blame others for making something that could potentially trigger someone, especially if it is both behind a paywall and has warning cards.
Cyraneth Vamaross exacto!!
Cyraneth Vamaross because this is such a serious issue, the warnings would be a responsible thing for Netflix as a company to do.
AvgJane19 Netflix can add the warnings but people have to be responsible for their own triggers. Saying these things can't exist because it hurts me is ridiculous
this makes way too much sense...
BINGO
When it comes to mental illnesses like anorexia and depression, people who insist on burying all discussion are part of the problem. They make people bury their problems and drive people away from help.
GenericFakeName It makes people feel as if mental illness is something to hide or be ashamed of. It doesn't help that the media perpetuates the stereotype of the "crazy criminal" on tv and in movies, making it seem as if the mentally ill are dangerous; in actuality, the mentally ill are far more likely to be the victims of crimes rather than the perpetrators.
Angel Singer Totally agree. I think it was Louie CK had a bit about how people who want to kill themselves feel like they can't even tell their therapists. He made it funny, but it really opened my mind as to how ridiculous the way we treat mental illness is. The solution is as much discussion as possible.
I agree, but this show is more about some childish drama than anything else.
PhilGerb93 Yeah I've never seen the show so I don't know if it's any good. I just can't stand people shutting down discussion because they feel mental illness should be taboo.
Yeah, just from the trailer To the Bone looks a 100 times better at actually portraying the illness seriously and being a conversation starter. 13 Reasons Why was an extremely poor and (in my opinion) dangerous representation of suicide.
The mere idea that Netflix should somehow "take responsibility" is moronic. They have hundreds of shows and movies about sensitive, taboo, and potentially "triggering" topics. I read the book 13 Reasons Why back when I was an angsty teen dealing with suicidal thoughts and depression and all it did was make me think, "what will it be like when I'm gone," and eventually realize, at least for a little while that suicide wasn't the answer. I dealt with many more ups and downs through the years and occasionally still do. I've also dealt with problems with eating disorders and yeah seeing a movie about eating disorders was triggering so eventually I STOPPED FUCKING WATCHING THEM. When I was younger people wanted discussion and now that we have it everyone's fucking pissed. It's so easy to just not watch or look at or read something that you know can be triggering to you. Another obvious fact is that most of one's watching this show and intending to watch this movie are teens. Teens using their parent's account. If the parents of those two girls had paid a lick of attention to what they did online or perhaps taken an interest in their kids during the most intense part of their lives, ya know fucking high school, their lives could have been saved. It is not up to Netflix to parent children and it's foolish to blame media for mental diagnosies. The warning is enough. The biggest issue facing Netflix is the fact that they keep taking down everyone's favorite shows with out an explanation. First Doctor Who now Futurama. If you want something mainstream to complain about and join a cause for its fucking that. This powerful platform taking away shows that making people happy. I mean it's just fucking bad for business.
I didn't like 13 Reasons Why, it portrays suicide as a revenge plot. It is usually never a revenge plot. What would you gain if you were dead? Another thing is that Hannah played victim. There was only really one good reason why, and that could've had gone better if she gave the counselor Bryce's name. But she was stubborn and wouldn't do that.
Gojida I didn't like your comment, it portrays RUclips comments about suicide as suicide encouragement. Now people will get the idea that suicide is a valid form of revenge.
...but then again, it MAY be possible that PERHAPS I misinterpreted your comment.
Funny how art can function on so many levels simultainiously huh? The main problem being that one person could take it one way and insist that 'something portrays something else as XYZ'...
At least you weren't suggesting that Netflix change anything. People are always so quick to bust out the ban-hammer.
not to mention that Hannah's straight up unlikeable. she was a bitch to the one person who treated her well, then sent out a bunch of tapes like "you made me kill myself, feel bad". I mean sure the people were shitty but. no one does that. I just can't stand that show.
I don't really get why people are wanting to ban these shows if they find them triggering. You have your own free will and can CHOOSE not to watch those shows. Netflix isn't forcing you to watch something you find upsetting. If you don't want your kids to watch it, set standards and boundaries for your kids tv/internet time, as well had having conversations with them. It's time people re-learn to be responsible for themselves and their children. I've avoided watching rated R movies and TV-MA shows all my life for various reasons. I've never once had the thought networks should not make these shows because I don't agree with it or find it upsetting. I just choose not to watch it. It's amazing how much simpler life can be if you take responsibility for yourself. 🤷♀️
13 reasons why was a book before a show, should the book be taken away also
TheXTutorialsx i loved the book also!! Read it when it came out 10 years ago!
We should have a book burning. Its the only safe way for our society to survive. We cant allow this negativity into our lives. I think we should burn any book that is possibly offensive or may become offensive in the future. We cannot discriminate. All opinions are valid because we are all different and all react differently. If anyone doesnt agree with anything at all then we must burn that information from our society. After all negative information is physically removed we can then move on to controlling the way we think with thought camps. Anyone thought to be thinking incorrectly can be subjected to a thought camp where we will convince them of their wrong thoughts and re-educate them appropriately.
+TheXTutorialx
I don't know. Does the publishing of books graphically depicting suicide, and its effects on the people around, usually make suicide attempts spike alarmingly? Is it in fact a common risk factor according to experts?
Did the author of the book bring in mental health consultants, who'd later disavow the work and their involvement citing that a lot of their warnings and advice were effectively and sistematically ignored?
Did the book also portray the whole matter as a cool and provocative teen drama/alt-murder mystery?
Sometimes its not what you do as much as it is how you do it.
TheXTutorialsx I read the book, it was alright. However when I started watching the show I literally stopped in the 4th ep cause it was different then the book. They added so much drama that was not in the book, that was my problem.
Azatodeth ADN how the fuck did a tv show make suicide rates spike alarmingly? Where are you getting these stats from, who are the experts claiming this is a risk, what mental health consultants disavowed the work? Saying a bunch of random shit that sounds like it could be correct doesn't make it correct.
Mental Illness, Suicide, EDs, etc are ALWAYS better to talk about. As someone who suffers from clinical depression and have had suicidal thoughts I know to not watch 13 Reasons when I'm at my most depressed and instead save it for when I'm feeling good. Triggers are everywhere and part of recovery is learning to deal with them, ignoring them or demanding that they all go away is damaging to the person suffering.
IF you handle it respectfully and tastefully - which they did not even attempt to do.
I agree, and perhaps the way the show was made was to attempt to reach people who don't understand what Hannah as a character went through, and don't see how their actions may have contributed to someone else pain? To people who don't believe rape culture exists? To reach them and make them think? Another way of looking at it maybe
KyoPewz I Agree, As I Myself Have Been Diagnosed With Clinical Depression. It's No Joke, Coping, And Battling Suicidal Thoughts, To Constantly Being In A Battle With Yourself, Its Difficult.
CodeDarkBlue It's not that for me. For me it fails to portray Depression and Suicide properly. As someone who was raped personally I hated myself. To the point I felt that I was a burden on everyone around me. I didn't want to kill myself for revenge. But to stop being a burden to everyone else. I know that's not the right way to think but that's how people think when they aren't happy. Don't censor it but for god's sake don't portray it so poorly.
codedarkblue---whats more respectful and tasteful than putting trigger warnings all over the content, and linking to resources that say there are people to help you if you're feeling suicidal..
and the fact that hannahs suicide scene was graphic? that to me IS damn respectful. it absolutely destroys the notion that you're going to just peacefully slip away...that its not going to be brutal and disgusting.
and that your parents arent going to walk in and be completely destroyed.
that was the best thing they could have done imo.
rather than feed the delusion that suicide is peaceful
but what if they can't afford professional help? I've always wondered that.
hellolala they live with it
hellolala they go through their life without help and suffering is all they might think bout
Actually its not usually an issue my family has mostly been living off retail paychecks for years until my mom got back into dental practice and we found many cheap helpful programs and resources of therapy and other things
They wait. Its like people who refuse to tell other people. Theyre trapped in they're own head
People may need to travel to find it, but free or "at cost" psychological help is out there.
If parents don't want their kids to see a program, they need to PARENT and stop blaming society for their shortcomings. Your only responsibility after having children is raising them, Netflix is not in the business of child rearing.
I know don't watch a show that has a Mature rating if you are 10 :/
ye remember the days when a parent would walk into a room to see a 9 year old watching an 18+ film and they used to do a thing called punishment ye i got caught watching halloween when i was little and i was told not to watch it and when they caught me they scolded me for it i learnt from my mistake and when i was older i watched the film and enjoyed it. now parents walk in see their kids breaking the rules watching a mature movie etc and blame the tv company for showing it not the stupid kid for not listening to their parents
Thanks
As some who has suffered from severe depression, a very crippling type of near daily hallucinations, alienation suicidal tendencies, anger management issues (I bottle everything up), and multiple personalities since I was 10 I have to say that I highly doubt 13 reasons why is to blame for this tragic event.
In fact it is because of this show I was able to get a dear friend of mine to realise that she needs professional help.
As a teacher, when I watched 13 reasons why I was afraid about the take-away some teens may gather from the series. They absolutely did not make it clear that ending your life is not a way to solve the temporary issues that plague you at that moment in your life. The narrator was able to make all the people who hurt her feel guilty/have their lives ruined through her suicide tapes. It was also unnecessary to show the suicide itself by way of the same argument against news organizations demonstrating how a bomber made the bomb out of household items. All that said, I absolutely believe that it's benefits outweigh all of that. Again, as a teacher and as an adult, it was an eye-opening experience. There are things that kids go through that we, with our own experiences and wisdom, take for granted. We forget what it's like to be a developing teenager, or at least I did even though I work with them every day. I truly believe it's necessary that adolescent teachers and parents watch this series, but when it comes to teens/young adults, I'm not so sure. Perhaps watching it with your teen would be the most beneficial thing you can do for both of you.
Treesuh The argument about News Channels showing how to make a bomb is entirely nonsensical. That's not common knowledge. What is common knowledge is that when you stab or cut yourself, you bleed. Slashing wrists is something everyone knows how to do
Treesuh they showed the suicide because they wanted to make you feel uncomfortable and show many people that it's not a peaceful way out like so many teens think and when it's done it's done most people who survived trying to commit suicide say they regret it right after this show wanted to show the harsh truth of it it not sugar coat it like so many outlets do these days.
Tell your kids to think outside the box that is their lives and try and show some empathy towards one anthers situation, when they give you a smartass answer start posing situations that get harder and harder to get out of. If the school system and their up bringing situation hasn't failed them, then they should come out with a better understanding of peoples situations; if not then you are looking at the beginnings of a sociopath. And don't end it with some bullshit saying like "we are always here to help you" speech end it with something akin to " there is always a way out you just need to look for it, yea ask for help when you can but always try and find a way out of those moments. Because in the end they are just Moments, a few passing days or weeks that may not be going your way but they will pass and you will be stronger in spite of those moments. No one is that weak, we all are human we all have the same capacity, maybe not the same natural skills but most definitely the ability to grow and become far stronger than we are today." I used to tell this to my Marines that were having a hard time in life.
its one thing to know that if you slash your wrists you die, another thing to see how its actually done explicitly
Ryan, yes it’s common knowledge you bleed but failed suicide attempts say it’s not as common knowledge of how you die from it (I am not going to get graphic about self harm so I hope you can understand what I mean by that). Granted, that scene will not necessarily “teach” someone who wants to harm themselves irreparably but showing it doesn’t help avoid watering the seed that’s planted in a person’s mind. Tyler, I absolutely agree with that sentiment but I don’t know, maybe I saw it a lot more artsy (moving?) than scary or unbearable but that’s just me then. Lol. Child of God, I did not mean to generalize; I was specifically referring to the scenario that is illustrated in the movie and I’m sorry if it came across as dismissive to others’ situations. It’s highlighted that her pain (meaning the external factors) was temporary and that is the situation I was speaking to. Dante, thank you for your advice and thank you for your service.
I don't relate To The Bone with 13 Reasons Why because I see a difference in their audiences, a difference in their cast (TTB's cast seeming to have more personal experience and a MATURE response to and opinion of the subject matter), and a difference in their accessibilities. TTB is a movie; you get it once and you can rewatch it, yeah, but it's one story made and told. 13RW is a continuous story, a series where the viewer gets more and more of this content, sees new and different ways for the narrative to be told graphically and with the unhealthy bias of the main character, etc. Idk, I gotta go so I can't say more, but I really just don't equate the two at all. I think production on 13RW /should/ be cancelled. But I support TTB for reasons / differences above.
I'm not even a firearm expert, but I have enough knowledge of bullet calibers to have the feeling that a .50 cal can penetrate and go through a hardcover encyclopedia . Not only that, but doing a control test without anyone behind the book could've at least gave alarm bells to the couple that "Oh, maybe this is a bad idea and we shouldn't go with it."
Now guess what? You have two children with a dead father and a mother in prison, because of their idiotic actions. I can only imagine what the children will think when they find out the truth about what happened.
or just in case wear a bulletproof vest....
The Desert Eagle in .50 ae (and even .357 and .44 magnum) will go straight through a bullet proof vest. This is a pistol known for breaking noses even if your holding it way out. This is why I feel more people need proper education on guns and gun calibers. Helmets don't save you from much, the standard bullet proof vest is only good for a few shots from small pistols, and hiding behind a car wont save you from a bullet either.
But then they'd have to buy another book. -Possibly what they were thinking?
O. G. A vest wouldn't stop a .50, this was just plain idiotic.
TheLegion sama bulletproof vests will not help with a .50
Regarding 13 reasons why being blamed for suicides, Metallica was also blamed for causing suicide (Fade To Black). So was Marilyn Manson and video games and books and movies. I notice that these people don't look inward at themselves and simply just put blame on others for their problems.
dujfraz I think it's because 13 Reasons Why is very on the nose concerning suicide which is why it gets so much backlash, which I do think it partially deserves
But if we know that producing stories on suicide makes people commit suicide, what's the excuse to do it anyway? Nobody is claiming that the tv media "made someone commit suicide". That's a strawman. But it does push vulnerable people over the edge.
If you know that someone is suicidal and you taunt them to go through with it, you're actually held accountable. Same logic here. The producers knew for a fact that producing this show will push some people to make that final step, and they made the show anyway.
+Alek Novy
*"But if we know that producing stories on suicide makes people commit suicide, what's the excuse to do it anyway?"*
It's not necessarily an excuse (that is, I don't think you need an excuse), but the first reason, of course, is money. It's a taboo topic. People like to watch things on things that are taboo.
The second reason might well be the awareness a show like this might bring. I don't think there are any scientific #s on it (and if I'm wrong, please do share a link), but let's just hypothesize that for every person who is pushed over the edge, there might be at least one who gets help before it's too late. Others might see how bullying can affect people and step up to prevent when they may otherwise have stayed quiet. Others yet might be helped into realizing there was nothing they could have done to help someone who committed suicide and stop blaming themselves.
Again, I don't know of any hard and fast #s for this, but I wouldn't be surprised if for every person that was harmed, 5 others were significantly helped. Think of it like the old "should we teach teens about birth control" argument. If we do teach them, sure, maybe 1 kid in 30 will get curious and have sex earlier than they otherwise would have, but 1 in 5 might learn to use birth control and not suffer from a teen pregnancy. If nothing else, we do know education works and is a net positive. I would think the same would be true re: suicide.
I have depression and I watched 13 Reasons Why. I didn't find it triggering but I can see how it would be. The only real issue I have with it is that it showcases suicide as a means to get revenge. Especially since the audience gets to see the effect Hannah's suicide has on the others. If someone is really struggling it makes it seem like a good option to put your pain onto others. IMO it is up to the individual on whether or not they watch it though.
Yes, It is like the perfect fantasy of a suicidal. Finally become important to people who hurt you... But bullies don't care! After someone suicides because of Bullying suddenly everyone is in shock and the bullies en up being the victims because "oh poor darling, you friend died at school it must be hard for you". Even if they get prosecuted "Oh my god why is she responsible? Se only sent harmless hate messages daily. She didn't mean it." Then they move on with their lives.
Imogen Elise The only way it can be triggering is if they add an apache attack helicopter
Imogen Elise but as a teenager, many do look at it as a kind of revenge. I did as a teen, the whole ' I'll fucking show them, see how they feel when I'm dead' kinda thought process.
Exactly what I was thinking.
But they did also show the downside of "revenge suicide.'
We saw how her parents got devastated and a few other characters.
I just wish they portrayed "The Butterfly Effect" theory more, Ik they talked about it for like 5 mins but they didn't show it.
Imogen Elise Exactly. I have it too and that is the only thing I can see triggering
Addressing the 13 reasons why... People didn't kill themselves over the book. Nowadays people just take things to the heart. From what I remember the book was equal to the show.
Xavier Dominguez I read the book but didn't watch the show and I can't even remember it being a trigger. I thought the book was great but barely remember it lol
Xavier Dominguez But didn't Hannah in the book overdose instead of slitting her wrist?? I don't remember much of the book (I've read it in highschool, but I don't have the book anymore. I gave it to a friend for his project.) but I don't think it was *that* gruesome or graphic, in fact, Hannah seem like she didn't put so much blame on everyone in the book rather than in the show. Hannah in the show keeps blaming others and then goes like "waaaah! Nobody is chasing after me! Nobody cares for my well-being" even though her parents supported her till the very end and the counselor at her school said he couldn't do much unless Hannah specifies what's really going on and people involved in her situation. That's just my opinion, the show doesn't make people hurt themselves but it makes suicide look like it's for revenge and attention.
you need to reread the book then... they changed so much. Made it a revenge plot... Additionally, all suicide prevention websites say DO NOT SHOW SUICIDES... what does 13RW do? Oh show the suicide and display her getting revenge on everyone that she thinks wronged her.
It shines a very important subject to light and its sad that so many people decide to take a topic of awareness as a topic of suggestion. People need to learn the difference between those because in no way was the show intended to show you suicide as a suggestion. It shows you why it happens brings you into that persons life their suffering their shoes and helps you see that there's so much you can do to help and show you to be much more aware what you do to people around you.
Chill Bringer Thank you for bringing the point of the prevention websites stating that you should not show the actual suicide. I’m a psychology major and it’s literally in the textbooks I’ve read that covering suicides in graphic detail, whether it’s a fictional visual depiction of the act or a news report, leads to copycat suicides. Yes, it’s an extremely important topic that needs to be addressed on a wide scale, but care also needs to be taken to avoid anything that can lead to copycat suicides.
Phil is the only RUclipsr I trust to not click bait me
To be honest I can remember when he did. Didn't like his channel for years after that
Bella Steward yeah. him and Brave Wilderness are my go-to's
You've been calling me a bastard 4 times a week for the past 4 years and its starting to hurt my feelings pls stop
He also calls you beautiful
rasjeff1 like an abusive boyfriend
That went dark pretty quick
really? I've become numb to it lol.
rasjeff1 honestly
Props for promoting Guardian Con as well as for your own contributions, Phil! The Destiny community's generosity and positivity never ceases to amaze me, and it is great to see you acknowledged their efforts for St. Jude as well.
I’m late on this I don’t care but this needs to be said about 13 Reasons Why:
In my opinion it’s a terrible show for numerous reasons. One: I used to suffer from depression and did not so great things to myself and I can tell you first hand that’s not how that works.
Two: Yes the show is glamorizing suicide. Period point blank.
Three: I find it disgusting how Hannah is blaming people that had nothing to do with the events that occurred to her for her suicide. I just find it sick how she’s telling people “hey you’re the reason why I killed myself and instead of me taking blame for it, I’m gonna blame you”
All in all 13 Reasons Why is a disgusting show (the book was very well written) and it was poorly executed to be an adaption of the book. They had the right idea and all but it was just terrible disgusting execution
Keilaaa THANK YOU! I wrote a comment but it sucked and you basically wrote everything I tried to say
How did they possibly think that shooting a book the man was HOLDING IN HIS HANDS WITH A LOADED GUN was ever going to be a good idea? It really is sad to see a life lost and another in jail, but people seriously need to learn guns are not toys and never point a gun at another person. Even if you think that gun is Unloaded, NEVER point it at someone else.
the Jay Johann show .50 Cal*
A 50. would be a tank shell...
What tank shell is called a "50?" I'm curious.
Charles Dickenson, He was not being literal. He means when you have the decimal in that place (50.), then compared to a .50 cal. It would be the size of tank ammo.
Yeah, I mean Jesus Christ. It's one thing if you use .22, which, while still being stupid, would not be life threatening and probably won't even go through the book. But they use the closest thing to a one handed cannon and shot that. I hate to make fun of a dead guy, but he's an idiot.
You'd be amazed at how many people have be
en killed with a .22.
My 15 year old daughter tried to kill herself last October. She has a great therapist now and we as a family have gone to therapy in order to strengthen our communication as a family. My point in sharing this is it's my job as her mother to do all I can to help her and love her. It is my responsibility to decide what is out there that might be harmful or triggering to her and then have an honest discussion about it. It's not Netflix's job to do that. Their job is to create content. With that being said I'm not a huge fan of this show and wish that it had a more positive outcome. As for the To the Bone show, from what I understand she is shown getting some help. So we are watching her journey and possibly gaining our own strength from that. It feels like a more positive message. But it will always be my job to keep communication open with my kids and tailor my conversations to each of my child's needs. Thanks so much Phil for always creating a space for communication. Love your face!!
Thanks for sharing, Angela. You sound like a great parent.
Angela Allen there isn't usually a positive outcome when it comes to suicide more often than not it usually doesn't have a happy ending and I say I have to disagreed a lot of parents don't see the warning signs when it comes to suicide you didn't know your daughter was suicidal until she attempted it and I say y'all are very lucky she didn't succeed this show gets parents aware of what might be going on in their kids lives.
And a side note...;
Many parents don't really know the 1st thing that's going on in their kids-teens lives, they need and should keep an eye out for problem signs and STOP blaming their lack of information. Get involved, CARE about what you children are doing, who they are influenced by.
Oh...and everybody will have a problem with SOMETHING in the course of their lives, if you have a problem with information that makes you uneasy, try learning from it instead of taking the foolish or childish approach to it.
Social Media With Mr Info exactly . If you knew your child was troubled maybe it would be a better idea to talk to your child and care for them and try to find their actual problems instead of blaming the show
It needs to start when the child is really young. People allow their young children to just surf the net and do what they please.
It is always the parent's fault
Social Media With Mr Info 👏
Agreed
i struggled with an eating disorder for 14 years and i think if that netflix show was around when i was deep into my eating disorder i would not of felt so alone and may have seeked help sooner. i still have an unhealthy relationship with food but have not purged in 5 years. This conversation has encouraged me to go get more help.
ED is a serious life struggle and remission can happen at any time. Support is needed..shame for seeking help should not exist
thanks for spreading the resources for help and awareness Philip
My husband: "he could be holding a car to his chest and that bullet still would have gone through it using a desert eagle."
Lol, no
thats kinda true
ForevermoreNevermore look up how strong kinetic/muzzle energy is released from a 50 caliber AE round. It'll go through a car like butter. This moron decided to try it with a book. At first I thought he was going to use a .22 which is still stupid but a .50 is just suicide.
Rachel Stephens One news story says the guy showed the girl a book with a bullet hole that didn't go all the way through, so she was convinced it wouldn't hurt him.
So, either she was lying, to cover for herself, or it was an accident and they did something different than with the first book. Or... even darker... maybe this story is actually related to the "13 Reasons" story.
Is your husband by any chance, Superman, Iron Man, or The Hulk?
As someone who has battled with suicidal thoughts, 13 reasons why was extremely triggering, but I never felt more happy to be alive because of it. That show increased an open dialogue on Mental Illness and stripped away the stigma that we shouldn't talk about it. It's a tough conversation, parents are mad because they have to talk about this dark subject matter to their teens, but this is what happening and parents need to understand that. May not be scene by scene, but the alone in your head feeling, feeling lost, and unwanted etc. Also, parents, come on you are probably the one paying for the Netflix, there are a lot of mature content that teens these days can be streaming.
So basically nobody can make a show discussing an important and relevant issue without people thinking that the show is promoting said issue...??????? Some people are just stupid
And I don't remember this kind of backlash when Christian Bale dropped down to some horribly low weight for The Machinist back in 2004.
Granted, apparently during production, the psychiatrists and other professionals in the mental health sector who they consulted gave them a list of things they should not do in order to avoid triggering people who are vulnerable to suicide, so that the show could raise awareness without endangering people.
I believe some of those experts have come out saying that they did just about everything they said not to do.
I think an issue with 13 Reasons Why was the use of the tapes in particular. There have already been teenage suicides that copied the series by leaving tapes in the exact same fashion. The problem isn't the fact that they are openly and creatively discussing hard-hitting topics, I think everyone welcomes discussion (most families of suicide victims end up engaging with awareness campaigns). With this series the problem was that it would give anyone at risk somewhat of a playbook, or guide, on how to commit suicide and how to leave a guilt trail for all those who they believe were involved in their death. It would be like contemporary war documentaries also showing tutorials on how to make improvised explosive devices.
I dont think saying "some people are just stupid" is really a way to argue here because it dismisses real arguments. I agree with the people above my comment who say the problem with the show is not that an important issue is being discussed- it is how it is portrayed. (I speak mainly of 13 reasons why because i dont know what the other movie is and i think it really depends on each case.) Granted, people will always have something to complain about but it is just ignorant to make a show about something so sensitive with almost complete disregard to the suggestions that professionals have made regarding the portrayal. Everyone has a unique experience that they have a right to share but when presenting something to millions of people- including minors- the least the creators could have done was represent those experiences in a safe manner. Suggesting that people with this view are some kind of sensitive easily triggered people- which i know you didnt personally say- is dismissing an important issue which is ironic considering the whole argument is to talk about relevant issues.
answer8597 sorry, but that line wasnt mean to be taken so literal. What i was trying to say is that this type of people who get trigged so easily shouldnt be the reason why people cant make extremely important show/movies where the main goal is to represent the reality of Many people... i apologize for my grammar, im chilean.
A show depicted a terrible, vindictive and manipulative person commit suicide, enacting a deliberate plan for that to continue after her death, as well as displaying Conduct Disorder ( pre-adult psychopathy) - if people relate to this.....then our society needs a great deal of mental help.
flamingmuffin666 in my perspective that's kind of the show's point, to show that any form of vengeance is bad and that suicide is not the answer to any situation, because there are people who love you that WILL be affected by your actions.
Izzy F it didn't show anything about vengeance being bad or good.
Izzy F - YOU think it portrays it as bad and that that's its point. But the reality is that the show basically leaves the perception of vengeance up to interpretation...which is bad. Especially as a show geared towards teenagers and young adults whose complex reasoning skills are still in development. I can tell you that as someone who has had vindictive thoughts when contemplating suicide, we already know people will be affected by our actions. Sometimes that's the whole point. It's an immature way of thinking that Hannah showcases perfectly.
what dream world do you live in. I bet you was one of them kids surrounding some poor kid shouting"fight! fight! fight!" as some bullies bigger and older then them intimidate them. it's a great laugh, it's just the bullied person that gets taken away for fighting back, you get to carry on with your friends having fun and enjoying you break time.
when you're trying to ban sensitive topics such as suicide and anorexia from main stream media, it makes the topics seem more taboo which makes people shy away from talking about them, and that's _a lot_ more dangerous than raising awareness for the subjects. how can people _not_ realise this?!
jeffrey-the-potato best way I've seen someone put it.
Digitallus thank you :)
Why couldn't they do a test run to see if the bullet went through the encyclopedia smh
I know being a teenager you do dumb shit, but all the kids in my generation knew that bullets go through paper.
Whalen Matthews You don't even need a test. I wouldn't try it wearing two Kevlar vests but a book?
As said in the video he was a thrill seeker. If they previously tested it all the thrill would've been gone. I mean we still get huge thrills from rollercoasters and we know those are safe, but he didn't consider that. He also sadly didn't think what would happen if the experiment failed. Unless this guy turns out to be a pedophile or something I'll still feel sorry for him since he seemed like a nice guy, no matter how stupid.
What up Whalen.
Why could they not be responsible gun owners and not point a gun at eachother at all , regardless if there was a fucking book in the way.
Its bowling for colombine all over again, blaming videogames and heavy metal music for "the young violent generations" but now people are blaming tv series and movies on "the young incredulous generations"... whats next, BLAMING MENTAL DISORDERS, BAD PARENTING, SOCIAL PRESSURE AND BULLYING?!
The way a lot of people use triggered is not the correct way to use it. We see a lot of people today used "I'm triggered" as a way to show that they're offended by something. In actuality, being triggered by something means that you experience something that causes you to have a flashback or brings up a past emotion (if you are talking about mental illness). A former soldier with PTSD could be triggered by the sound of a gunshot. It's actually a very serious topic and shouldn't be joked about.
Like as a former self harmer the sight of blood or blades triggers me. Not in the way of "Omg I'm sooo triggered lol" but more in the way of "Hey, I'd rather not see that because it brings up bad memories"
BUT I do think that these shows should keep running because they start conversations like this
Caroline Zambo agreed. In my school district, a young woman in middle school took her life and nobody talked about it but when 13 reasons why came out, they gave us a letter to take home about signs of depression and suicidal thoughts. Just saying. And it also made me mad when they ignored the suicide of that girl btw.
As someone that has struggled quite a bit with EDs and occasionally still does, I think it's great that something like this movie is being produced. Awareness and conversation will play a pivotal role in ending the stigma around mental illness as a whole, as well as the equally problematic romanticization of it, I believe. That said, I know that I won't personally be able to watch it. I know the word "trigger" gets thrown around a lot and that no one takes it seriously anymore, but watching or reading things like this really can spur weeklong periods of intensified mental struggle or even relapse for me, and I'm exceptionally thankful for things like the much ridiculed "trigger warnings" as such. Now, I know that many not make sense to a lot of people, but everyone can be affected by different things, and this is actually one of the only "triggers" I have. Discussing it doesn't affect me at all-but experiencing it through fiction does. I get very invested in my fiction and tend to immerse myself in the minds of the characters, and so experiencing those particular struggles vicariously all over again through them really does redouble my own, even long after I've turned the show off or put the book down, and especially if it's been a while since I'd last had those thoughts and urges. I do briefly check just about everything I watch and read beforehand, while still trying to avoid spoilers, to help guard myself against that where I can-my EDs are no longer a daily struggle, so avoiding things that I know will bring them back when they're absent makes sense, does it not? While most of the time things like that will be mentioned with regard to the works right away, sometimes, it is imbedded quite deeply in them, or it's a spoiler itself, and looking up a synopsis won't tell me it's there before it's too late. The warnings make it much easier to avoid very nasty surprises. For that reason, I'm always very thankful when a show or book or film warns me ahead of time-it just helps me to avoid what I know will be very bad for me.
Highjack996 Eating Disorders! Sorry for the confusion.
I'm someone who suffers from mental illness and while I do agree the show is very intense, Netflix is not responsible for raising your children.
You don't have to know everything your children consume... You just have to know your children.
The guidelines of portrayal of suicide? What does that even amount to, plausible deniability for those who aren't suicidal when the topic is brought up? The societally appropriate amount of knee jerk reaction instead of an honest look?
One of the best references to suicide I've ever seen in a mainstream production was Doug Stanhope in the show Louis. It isn't dark, it's hardly even bleak, it's just honest. As someone who's been plagued by depression from my teenage years on the reason given there of just not wanting anything anymore, of just feeling devoid of desire, and almost fatal level of apathy, resonated in a powerful way. Even 13RW, I haven't seen it but I get the mindset being criticized; suicide in some manner an act of vengeance, retribution for wrongs that won't be righted in life.
Is that what everyone feels? No. But I'd wager those are the thoughts a lot of truly depressed, ideation having people go through when they're actually making that choice between life and death. It's patronizing and downright shitty the way suicide is presented, hug box everyone and keep telling them there's so much to live for, it gets better, it's such a pointless and tragic situation. Make yourself feel better while telling someone whose thoughts are powerful enough to override their own survival instincts to smile, like somehow a bit of positive thinking is going to overpower a mountain of futility, self-doubt, self-hatred, apathy, anxiety, etc.
If anything, the reaction to this show is probably just another good coating of stigmatization for those who are actually contemplating cashing out. What a great idea, a show tries to take an honest enough look at a problem and you say talking about the problem breeds it, that the mentality shown is wrong or not what "real" suicidal people go through, they stick to the portrayal guidelines. At least the depressed and suicidal seldom ever hide the severity of their problems because stigmatization and their own self-loathing and crippled self-esteem make them almost inherently mistrustful and ashamed to admit to anyone else they're dealing with a serious condition. Oh, wait...
Greatest quote I've seen today "Netflix is not responsible for raising your children."
AGREED
for real. you know netflix has inappropriate material yet you continue to pay for account and allow your kids to have password. i remember child blocker for skinamax when i was young. be a parent people.
I am someone who lived with a secret eating disorder for 9 years. Because of the strong stigma around ED, I thought I would live my whole life with this shameful secret. I opened up about my ED after reading an article that depicted another person's battle with this disease. Now I am in recovery and I think that it is important for shows like these to bring difficult issues into everyday conversation so that people can feel safer to talk about what they are going through.
as a person who has gone through depression and has attempted suicide, i did find 13 reasons why upsetting, however i knew what i was getting myself into and i felt that this show helped to bring up conversation with my family and help them understand more about social settings in school and the events that drive a person to commit suicide. however i don't agree with how they portrayed it in the series, i feel it should've been more linked with depression than it was and it shouldn't have made the main character place blame on others for what was ultimately her decision...this is just my opinion tho based on my personal struggle with depression and suicide attempts
Every time I hear ED I think erectile dysfunction. Now some old conversations make more sense.....
urmaker I think of encyclopedia dramatica. Eh, two different tgings involving dicks.
urmaker lol
urmaker hahahahaha. That's ....fuckin awesome.
lol...In the medical community, I have honestly never seen Eating Disorders being referred to as ED because of the earlier designation of Erectile Dysfunction. LOL. We just mostly refer to the eating disorder by it's specific name....Anorexia Nervosa, Bulimia etc
Hahahaha, Same! Also urmaker I love your channel 😊
... a .50 cal can kill anything on this goddamn planet and they decided to try to stop it with a book.
A book.
This is why gun safety courses are important.
if only that book was a bible! he would have been alive!!
Well to be fair a book actually can stop a bullet from a gun, just not a bullet from a gun designed to make sure what you hit dies.
They keep using the word "Prank", I do not think it means what they think it means....
Miranda G This is why GUN LAWS are important lmao. How did these idiot kids get ahold of a goddamn pocket cannon?? Absolutely ridiculous. Kids with guns.
apparently she tested it out on a bunch of books and showed him that the bullet didn't go through on one of them and that's why he agreed... sigh
This is using a scapegoat to push the blame on something else so they don't have to take responsibility or step back and take a look at themselves or where they possibly failed to notice changes in their children. Blaming a tv show for how your child behaves is reckless. Take responsibility and bring awareness to mental illnesses and it's ramifications.
I've suffered from mental illness my entire life, if a show can start a conversation about these subjects then I'm all for it.
Should we also ban Shameless for it's portrayal of addiction, alcoholism, and mental health disorders like bipolar disorder??
Alli Brown it's not as in depth or explicit at all
Lyndsie Daniels I'd argue they give an incredibly graphic and in depth look at alcoholism and bipolar disorder with Frank, Monica, Ian, and Lip. I understand I'm sort of comparing apples to oranges but where do we draw the line with this? Nearly every show out there these days addresses topics that could be considered triggering or harmful to any number of people. If the entertainment industry catered to every single group, being sure not to offend or trigger anyone, we'd have absolutely no content to watch and no one would ever learn or grow or expand their mind on new topics. The show opened up a great conversation for me and my 15 year old brother about how to treat people and about depression and suicide. Lots of other people have had similar experiences. It's not all bad. Proper warnings were put on the show there was an entire extra episode addressing the topic...ultimately that is all they can do. Like I said, where does the line get drawn?
Everyone knows 13 reasons why was a book before right? Its target audience was teens and it raised awareness for a topic that was rarely talked about at the time. It was released in 2007 and from what I remember of school, there was little suicide education. Only in the following years (around 2013-2014) did I start seeing support clubs finally pop up. This is one of the many books, media and actual suicides that helped my community start taking this problem seriously. Suicide is now on everyones radar, and while this may have given some young adults ideas about it, to blame the show is absolutely ridiculous. I dont want to point blame on the parents because it is hardly ever one problem with suicide cases but blaming a tv series is just blind and ignorant....there has never been and never will be a tv show that is the direct cause of somebodies suicide. People are tougher than that and to say that the show is to blame is to degrade and dismiss what these two girls really went through.
very well put.
_Jamison_ THANK YOU! It all start with educating your children about the subject. I'm 21 years old, ever since I was a pre-teen I've seen R rated films, tv series and entertaiment and you don't see me shooting schools or killing people because I was taught many things in my home about the things that I'm suppose to do or not. Educating and talking to your children is what helps them to not make stupid decisions. Blaming shows for people committing suicide is like saying that guns are what kill people. People are what kill people, by making dumb decisions. Suicide is a serious topic that parents should talk about to their children, but instead they're just giving them smartphones and raising ignorants.
The book was much better than the show of showing the emotional void left by Hannah's loss and the deep sense of shame amongst the people who the tapes were addressed to. Hannah's decision wasn't depicted as positive because you see that all that is left in her wake was this insurmountable sense of loss and grief and regret. The TV show seemed to be more about distinguishing who was a "good guy" and who was a "bad guy" and treated Hannah getting to kill herself as a well-earned justice (example: the scene with triumphant music where Hannah walks out of the school for the last time having made the decision to kill herself).
Oo that's a good point about it being a book first, this is the first time I've heard about the series.
The book did not have the graphic rape and suicide scenes depicted in the show, which is what is being blamed for being "triggering". You're kind of missing the point.
It is up to EACH person who chooses to watch it to determine if they can handle the show or not. If their judgement is wrong and they get triggered, that is NOT on Netflix and NO ONE has the right to hold Netflix responsible for the way SOME people react to their shows. PARENTS should be more involved and aware of what their kids are watching instead of relying on networks and companies like Netflix to do their JOB as parents.
jlover7787 totally agree
You are definitely correct. But is it really right for Netflix to make these programmes and exploit these topics for monetary gain? Because that is what they do.
Anchoram as long as it's legal it doesn't matter
@Luis Roman That is true. I am still allowed to object and question it as an individual.
@Blind Prosopagnosiac
No, I am not. I believe TV series and films can be very useful when raising awareness of issues, but I do not think they should be the only source of awareness around a topic.
I am fully aware that Netflix CAN make series about these topics (and from a business perspective I definitely see why they do, just look at all the attention they are getting!), but I am question whether they SHOULD because they are threading some murky waters morally by exploiting issues like these and quite possibly worsening the situation. I fully believe that 13RW might have inspired somebody to commit suicide, even though I do not think there is much to sue Netflix about because of the reasons mentioned by the first poster. And is that right? Making content which definitely has aided somebody in taking their own life?
they didnt show her depression or her thoughts!!! it was just like *Sad* *sad* *death*
but.. everyone wants representation but complain when they get it.
I know this is old but, they did show her depression. The fact that you didn't see it shows how suicidal people look to those who don't know what to look for; she was doing outrageous and self damaging behavior - distancing herself from friends, not doing things that had previously made her happy, blaming herself for things that had happened that weren't her fault - and then her silence. Then when she did try to reach out for help she was told she was over reacting, maybe she gave him the wrong idea etc - so yeah. Her depression was shown, her depression was shown exactly as how it's shown in real life....
Honey Bea Yes Yes Yes.
The mere display of something does not automatically "glorify" what is depicted. This has been a repeating pattern in recent years.
We need to see "bad" things to know where we stand on these issues. Sweeping these topics under the rug does no one any good.
Of course, there will always be people who completely miss the point of these stories and glorify them, see how some people treat dystopian stories as "good examples" and do exactly what the story warned about.
Anorexia is such a unique and complicated illness. As someone who was hospitalised aged 17 then sent to rehab at age 18 for anorexia this film and the very likely negative impact it will have worries me. When I was very ill, and I know this is the case for other sufferers, I glorified and looked up to people who were sicker than me. I watched documentaries and read books by people who had recovered and focused on the parts of the stories where the author talked about being ill, talked about the lengths they went to, talked about tricks they developed to lose weight or deceive their family/carers. I ignored the part where they talked about its devastating impact, I didn't care, the illness doesn't care.
I couldn't possibly say that this is a film that shouldn't be shown, but it's just so, so complicated. Depicting suicide in TV or film isn't necessarily harmful or triggering. But for someone suffering from anorexia or bulimia any depiction is used as fuel. Which is tragic, because then how do we talk about it and fight against it?
I don't have the answers, but this whole thing just feels pretty stressful because I know that if this came out when I was ill I would have watched and rewatched it, made notes, felt validated... I just can't help but feel deeply sad about the fact that there will be a huge amount of people who will do just this.
These are excellent points, thank you for sharing your experiences. I just wanted to add that depictions of suicide do cause copycat suicides. They can provide sufferers with concrete plans and motivation. People who are suicidal are most at risk once they've moved from general suicidal thoughts to an actual plan. Talking about suicide should be welcomed but depicting it or providing too many details should be avoided.
Suicidal people tend to ignore the "you won't see the pain/drama/trauma you inflict on those around you". You won't feel vidicated or "at peace". You're just dead (as far as we know). I feel like 13RW, by showing the victim influencing events after her death, sends a really damaging message.
Nia then don't watch it
monkyvirus iactually agree with you on your last point. In seeing the impact that "Hannah" had on the lives of those who she blamed for her decision would make other suicidal people who have actually moved into the planning stage feel like they want to inflict that sort of reaction from people who they feel like she made them. Thanks, ididnt think about this point at first. That's why I feel that parents or teachers should watch this show with their children etc.. so that there could be a conversation because even though the creators of the show might have intended to make one point, it can be interpreted in so many other different ways
Nia I appreciate your take on it and I definitely empathize with your concerns. I also had an eating disorder which I honestly continue to suffer with, so I feel the pain of those who suffer or have suffered. But it worries me more to have censorship towards a taboo subject that doesn't get much attention beyond maybe talking about it in health class at school. I have felt so isolated and ashamed of my disorder, and I'm personally grateful for more light to be shed on it. Censoring media isn't and should never be the solution. At some point we all need to take responsibility for our actions, and I blame no one for my relapses, no one for my effort to hide it, no one for escalating it. Those were my choices. Sure they were choices of someone mentally ill, but I'd rather give myself the power to get help when I need it than feel powerless in my impulses because some show gave me more tips to do something I know is bad for me. Just my take on it as a fellow sufferer of an ED
I agree with you, but I also feel it's important for shows/movies like this to be made and shown (if portrayed correctly). I was diagnosed with an eating disorder at 15 and could never tell my family before it was too late. They all had this mindset that by starving yourself, you were weak minded, and you were choosing to do it for attention. They couldn't grasp the concept that someone could be hurting so much inside, and be filled with such self loathing, that they went to extreme measures to change their body. My mother only finally caught a glimpse when I went to see my therapist, who had also struggled with anorexia, and she shared a little about how it was like. Since then my mom always watches videos/documentaries about eating disorders/mental illness, so she can be more informed and look for warning signs.
It sucks that people who struggle with these types of things will only use this to reason with themselves and take further action, but people with misconceptions about diseases like this should also be informed. Such a sticky situation.
When hasn't he jumped right into it?
Matthew Gardner this one Tuesday...it was a strange day
a_clockwork_paradox88 It... it was a dark day #nevaferget
When touring around an active volcano in Hawaii with his family.
I like that you put suicide and anorexia help lines in the description. It shows that you care about your subscribers/watchers
Wait.... They thought... a book.... would stop a .50 cal bullet....?
"Don't be stupid, stupid."
-Philip DeFranco
That bit doesn't matter, if you don't know you don't know. However, what idiot tries it first with a person behind the book rather than say the ground...
books are knowledge that you can use but you can't use the book in a literal sense as "knowledge" to dodge a bullet!
I don't see why they didn't test it first would have saved his life.
God forbid we encounter topics that make us uncomfortable or make us think. For crying out loud. This makes me feel like all of those people who say that we coddle people too much might have a point.
MsAmandolin They definitely have a point.
MsAmandolin they've always have had a point
and so the pendulum begins to swing back...
MsAmandolin could not have said this any better
The real criticism from professionals is that 1. You should NEVER show the actual suicide to impressionable teens and 2. That you should NEVER show the suicide having positive results (I.E. accomplishing a goal). The producers of the show were given this information and ignored it.
Why in all fuckery would someone hold a book up and say, "Shoot me through this! Nothing will happen!"
I have to disagree with your opinion on 13 reasons why. The show breaks every rule on reporting on suicide. There are many ways to talk about these kinda things and I think we should talk about them. But we must make sure to talk about them in a way that doesn’t put people in danger.
They definitely should have tested that "stunt" NOT with a living person first. That's the thing about stunts, the first time you see it, is not the first time it's performed, you hone it until it's safe.
Why did they think that a phone book will stop a bullet??? ........... sigh....
LiveLife 101 a 50 cal bullet
If it had been a phone book from the 90s, he might have survived.
LiveLife 101 i bible has stopped a bullet before and those are thinner than a phone book
because he's a fucking moron
A phone book can easily stop a small calibre round
imagine trigger warning in game of thrones. every 2 seconds a warning pops up lol
pero like, GoT does have these warnings aka Viewer Discretion cards before each episode and they list what type of shit you'll be seeing in the episode lmao
Bat Mon i can't even imagine what battle of the bastards will look like
Bat Mon but its target group isn't kids
I've never seen viewer discretion cards for GoT. Although, I bought the box sets to watch the show, so maybe that has some sort of effect.
yeah those Viewer Discretion cards show up when you watch the episodes live and I think if you stream them through HBO Go
Lol i got this video recommended to me today...3 years after it occurred.
I KNOW!!! This never happened before but oh well. I love how no-one commented in 9 months until today.
I suffer from suicidal thoughts and severe depression. I felt that 13 reasons why could be potentially triggering so I never watched it. I do not believe these shows should be blocked from release because they engage people in hard conversations that need to be had. Trigger warnings are enough. In the end, I am responsible for my own decisions.
Shawn Nagar Trigger warnings.. Lmao! Go back to your safespace.
I agree, I think that the show has trigger warnings where it needs to, like the rape scenes. Going into the show, its subject matter is well known but those scenes are not something as expected and both are graphic. It was also important to have a warning for the scene she ends her life which is graphic as well and upsetting even if you don't suffer from depression or suicidal thoughts. If the show is something that you know might be triggering, I agree that you need to make the decision to forgo the show.
Nathan Roberts that's not amusing . You don't know what someone is going through so you shouldn't even put your input into this .
Diana Gutierrez I do feel for him, as I have gone thru suicidal thoughts and depression. But I think a "trigger warning" is bullshit. What people going through these things really need to do is avoid tv and go out and stay in nature for a while, in a tent or cabin and camp for a 3 or 4 weeks if possible. It helped me alot.
Shawn Nagar how does a show even trigger someone to commit suicide
How about use a dummy to test if it was safe before you shoot through the book.
I want to know if the weapon was discharged in or around the apartment building they stayed at. Like what was the thought process? We'll discharge a firearm and when the neighbors and police come we'll just tell them how it was for a youtube video.. They obviously had no training in gun safety or gun law at all. And a story I read says there are no plans to release the video to the public at this time, which makes me wonder if they decided a snuff video would go viral on youtube and make them money, which is also illegal to post.. Just.. So much stupid.
They didn't even need to test it. Its been tested multiple times on RUclips already. After only 3 min of research I found it takes about 1200 pages of paper to stop a 50AE round and Im guessing the book they used probably had 200-300 pages. While if feel very bad for the kids I am going to give these 2 the Darwin award and say nothing of importance was lost.
After a guy "accidentally" shoot himself in the head, in front of a streaming video, you would think that somebody take some lesson about the danger of a firearm...
Or maybe not hold the book in front of their body. There are tons of ways to prevent something like that, even for people who have no idea what will happen.
or you know, maybe just don't point/shoot a gun anywhere near or at a person in the first place. Common fucking sense. How did these kids even get a gun in the first place would be my first question.
That handgun story is Darwinism at its finest
sabotagee610 very true
sabotagee610 Its tragic, but also very true. You must be extremely moronic to do that.
No my friend, Darwinism is about removing yourself from the human gene pool before reproducing!! In that matter your make the human race better by not passing on your genes!!!
I love you, Philip. A few years ago, I was pretty fucking depressed. I suffer depression. I was ready to walk in front of a train. Because of an unintended outburst at a nurse during a physical, I ended up seeing a psychologist. He helped me through that time. Now it's come back 'round again, and I'm thinking about meeting that train. My psychologist and I are discussion better options. Thank you for urging people suffering these self-harming thoughts to seek help.