This is a huge issue and I only realized it pretty recently. I've been trying to hone my social skills and I ended up finding this chart on intimacy levels. When talking to a neurotypical person it's important to understand what kind of information they're sharing and roughly match their level of intimacy. I tend to open up way too much the moment I decide I like someone. I also just want to add since its my first comment on your channel that I really like your videos! You have so much experience with communication in the workplace which give you a valuable perspective on the struggles that autistic people go through. I hope you stick around for a long time.
It's so hard to find the "right" level of sociability. I often close myself off as a defense mechanism because I have such a hard time with my filter when I do start talking. Even if I know the rules, I find the words just come out 🤦♀️ This might be my ADHD, not sure. I do seem to have a much harder time than my autistic (not AuDHD) friends controlling my filter. Thank you for your support and kind words 💛 I do plan to prioritize communication and employment issues as well as heavier topics impacting our community moving forward.
Knowing where these lines are for each relationship is a blurr for me. I had a small filter for it before I got a traumatic brain injury now I have no filter and can't mask or camouflage well anymore. I find myself either going all out as my true self or completely walling myself off. It's hard! People say I'm extremely friendly, kind and authentic but, I get reprimanded for crossing lines and no one tells me how to avoid it next time. They expect me to know automatically. I've gotten my heart broken a few times this year for not knowing and being reprimanded or regected. I really struggle to understand. I feel you. If we lived in a society where people were direct and then communicated their desires or needs to us, it'd be different. Ive had a lifetime of being expected to know what's what. I'm so thankful for these videos, but I'm frustrated too because it's still so hard to know where the lines are.
I used to be very guarded before my traumatic brain injury, but now it’s like the floodgates are always open! I so relate to your comment and I’m glad you shared. Having a TBI is so frustrating and painful when people misjudge your character because of this invisible injury. I wish you all the best. 💜
I love the props too. I wish someone had shown me this years ago. I didn't realize this was a thing until recently. That my coworkers don't want to be friends. The people I work with now are very transactional with occasional work banter but it is very limited. I was trying to have conversations with people but they would just cut me off and I was like ok that's weird... normally if this happened I would get depressed and think that I did something wrong, but I finally realized that not everyone wants to be my friend. I don't know if the work world changed or I changed, but when I was younger I would form close friendships at work. Maybe it just depends on the place...or maybe when I was younger it was cute to be weird, but now that I'm late 30's, it's not as cute.
I didn't understand the extent of my differences and that there are social rules until my 30s. Before that I just thought people liked you or they didn't.... and that for some rason people mostly disliked me. At work, I think culture can go a long way in making it better for us. That's the number one thing we should be looking at with a new employer, as it's an indicator of how successful and happy we'll be....
Or is it if you're a teen you're at a different point in life. people starting a new phase is more open to letting new in where those settled are more closed off keep to their partners long time old friendships In 30s people tend to be married with kids their focus is the family earning money for family. Teens are learning about themselves exploring faze young 20s they are still interested in meting getting to know people they more likely to be single just out of high school looking for a new tribe. That is all a guess from observing Im not that good understanding people but been trying to get the patterns. basically, those that might be starting a new point seem more interested in meeting getting to learn take in new things where those that are settle into a pattern have no room tend not to be open to something new. It's easier to find friendly people example beginning of college everyone is starting a new phase old friends separated maybe new location. where if you're the only new person at a place where everyone already got their clicks and routines your invisible and they don't want to be bother due to having a full schedule Im in 30s during pandemic took a job that was mostly young college age and they that also was new for season were really friendly inclusive if having a convo where those working for years that also a few years older maybe late 20s -30s some married kept to self-colder to new people but friendly towards those that been working with them for years likely started with them. Then there was those close to Retirment that where i guess the type of friendly that the lady mentioned in vid as acquittance level but that group between them had a really close bound hang out after work they been working together many years they are also at the age where kids moved out so different stage not worried about taking care of kids
This is really helpful. I had to learn all this the hard way. As someone who was diagnosed later in life (33 years old) with “mild autism”, it was very difficult for me to navigate in the real world (of humans). I ended up getting burned out really bad. Thank you for the video as it confirms my experiences.
I learned my lesson. I ceased all attempts at amicable and amorous associations, interactions, and bonds. The emotional pain experienced assures I will never attempt to meet people again. I have no friends, no girlfriend, no acqaintences. However, I am safe. There will likely never be humans in my life again.
This is immensely sad, but I have often felt like taking the same approach. I have had so much hurt and disrespect from people who were supposed to be partners. I'm sure it's down to misunderstanding. But I seem to conclude that I'm just not meant to be with anyone.
You can meet a person that will be good, honest, loving towards you, they exist. Don't give up on all relationships, people treating you badly is not your fault. You can still experience healthy relationships, don't resign from happiness you can have because of people that treat you how they shouldn't. Believe in yourself you can achieve the life you want.
I wish I was better at knowing how other people viewed the relationship. It's helpful to know these rules, but I'm not good at realizing when someone only wants acquaintance good-vibes only small talk, or only wants minimal co-worker transactions. Do we also only wait for the NT to 'make the first move' towards friendship? The person that inspired this video seems to have put herself out there and it blew up in her face.
I received my diagnosis at 30. I wish someone would have taught me this. I always reached out to people without any social boundaries. I always felt that I would open and talk to everyone, doenst matter especially hierarchy. In fact, I never believe and still believe in any sort of hiearchy but reality kicks in. I struggle with give and take relationships. When connections are deeper I dont know how and what I should provide back or when its the right moment. I also agree with you about shallow conversations and connections: they are pointless. What is the sense to say hi or keep in touch if we never liked or we will ever meet again? Recently I moved in a new city and to be very frank to make new friends its horrible. I noticed that many people enjoy shallow conversations which makes me very bored and angry. It seems like many people prefer to be "acquaintance" mode which I find it pointless. Be autistic it feels lonely sometimes. I feel like Im a very different piece of puzzle that does not match. Thank you for your video and to adress such sensitive topic.
it's funny how ignorant neuropypicals, so not all of them, think autistic people are stupid but t hen we are the ones who always have to adapt to them to get along and we all know that the most advanced are the ones who adaps so basically with their actions are admitting we are better overall as we are expected to adapt to them. They have yet to realize this earth sucks because the rules on it were mostly created by them, a sign of true stupidity on their part. I was legitically called savant by my recent ex who knew nothing about autism but what they used to say forty years ago and never bothered to go learn, he loved me so much, just li ke my brother. They dismiss it and mock it but then somehow they claim to love us. Much, love, great work. THANK YOU.
I only ever have two levels so it's weird to learn there are so many distinct levels. Your channel is much more relatable than others for some reason. Could you do a video about texting and/or social media? Family members include me in group texts and it feels like SO MUCH work is being foisted on me to keep up and to respond to everything, it's very frustrating. I feel like they are being callous and they tell me I'm "isolating" if I block them. I run into similar problems every time I attempt to use social media
Thanks for this explanation. I appreciated the visual aids and the fact that you get straight to the point :) I didn't know that co-workers mostly existed in the "transactional realm" until my therapist told me something similar about a year ago. At first, I was so confused, because I thought me and some of my former co-workers were really close. In retrospect, it makes sense. About 3 years ago I went through a really rough time in my personal life, and I think I brought too much of that "stuff" to work and would discuss it somewhat often with my co-workers. I think I thought that we were closer than we actually were, because I always got this vibe that they didn't really care about what I was saying beyond responding with cliches like "Oh I'm so sorry." I felt so alone cause I didn't think they cared about me in that way. It turns out I was right about that fact, but for the wrong reason. Our relationship was just purely transactional and I was the only one who didn't get the memo on that one. I have to be honest that not understanding these kinds of things is a source of embarrassment for me sometimes. It's so difficult to exist in this world and have a chronic feeling of not really understanding not just how to relate with people, but also not really understanding the status of your relationships too. I don't know how neurotypicals can just intuitively understand these things..
That's such an excellent point, about not knowing how to relate or understanding the status of the relationship. It's a familiar place for me and I withdraw as a result. A family friend just told me how she perceives me as shy. I'm not shy! I'm just guarded because it never ends well. I've also found myself in a place of overstaying during a difficult life event. It wasn't until people asked me if I had a therapist that I realized I was divulging too much. I had a hard time understanding the line. However, in contrast, if you clam up out of self preservation, you're considered stand offish which can also be problematic career wise. It's a difficult situation.
@@ProudlyAutistic On top of that, there are power games being played by NTs nearly all the time. What's oversharing and burdensome on your end may be perfectly acceptable if they're the ones doing the oversharing. There are all kinds of double standards and moving goalposts at play if people sense you are vulnerable in some way. Since we can't read people and social situations the same way, that's our vulnerability and NTs 100% take advantage.
Well explained and great topic to cover ! I've always struggled with this and, while I've improved at it somewhat with age, it's still an area of weakness for me when I interact with others that aren't close family or friends. knowing it's a weak area for me, I generally tend to err on the side of caution when interacting with others and hold back a bit rather than risk going in too deep and oversharing, or offending someone, etc.
I know an undiagnosed guy. At his job, he thinks everyone should be friendly to him. If not, he becomes stressed and even depressed about it. Any girl he is interested in, he bothers, and asked intrusive questions such as: do you want to go eat something later with me, do you have a boyfriend, etc. Note that he barely knows any of them, they are just co-workers or customers. If he gets some answer, eventually, days later or sooner, he will follow up asking: whats your boyfriends name, etc. So he doesn't know or care about social boundaries or that everyone has their own different social boundaries, he only cares about what he thinks or want or expect; and he is very aggressive. This is beyond being friendly or kind to strangers or others. He has gotten in trouble multiple times at his work especially for being creepy to female co-workers and it is a known pattern even at work. He thinks he is just being friendly, and that hes not doing anything wrong. I have told him that you keep work and your personal life separate and so on - you cant treat someone who's trying to rob you the same way you treat your mom, etc. You can say we are acquaintances not by my choice but i don't mind him. Now I can't confirm if he is autistic. I also feel that if i bring this possibility up to him he would not only laughed at the idea, because he is very boastful and proud of himself, and I am sure he would be aggressively offended. But I do feel that he is strongly autistic, in this case in the social area, in a very negative and aggressive way. Do you think he is autistic, at least in this area of social boundaries. I myself know what autism is and I have autism, but not in this area, not in this intrusive and boundry-less way. I can see that he is both naive and friendly but also very inconsiderate and rude and aggressive and i think other people can see this also. I am off-put by him but also feel kind of bad for him. Because people should be friendly with each other. But hes going too far with it. I feel like if he knew he is guaranteed autistic, especially in this social area with his specific problems, then he might be able to at least work on his problems at work. He is a very nerdy, obsessive, and attachy person. Last of all, I don't want to be mistaken and turns out hes just crazy or a creep which he is. But then the question is, are all creeps autistic... even if not all autistic are creeps. If you have a take on it, I would appreciate it. Thanks. Last thing... the guy I know seems to be in a far more problematic situation than the person you are speaking of, but still this doesn't exactly mean hes autistic, so i would like a second opinion.
I'm not sure how it will help the situation if you know his autism status. When I was younger, I was much more arrogant because some things seemed very simple to me. It looked like others were complicating things that were very easy. But I was humble enough to not be certain. He needs to know he's doing things differently than others. And the reactions he gets are a reflection of the differences in his behavior. Eventually, he might start raging out at everyone for being unfair to him. I'd say be careful because he might lash out at you because you're trying to be nice to him, and he might see your efforts as his actual problem. You can choose to try to be helpful. But understand if he's blind to soe things, and doesn't know he's blind. He might just think you're another person just picking on him and being a jerk. So whatever you choose, make sure you're not going to be turned into his scapegoat. It's still very kind of you to care. If only more people cared, it would be a better world.
The term work and professional life separate might be very vague. So I'd say people at work are there to get money, not friends. They might want to keep it that way. No friends, just money. You join some online groups to get friends. Also, at work, people have to be kind even if they don't want to. So, if you keep pushing your kindness on them, they will feel overwhelmed and bad. Also, people don't automatically become friends as adults. They warm up to each other more slowly. But none of this will help if he thinks he's more intelligent than everyone. And if he's aggressive, I would be much less likely to say anything to him.
I agree that he might not take constructive criticism well. Being autistic does not mean that you're unable to be reflective and pursue personal growth. It just might not be a high priority for some or they might struggle to identify appropriate goals. It sounds like he either doesn't care or lacks the curiosity to recognize his differences. I suspect upbringing might have something to do with it too, as far as his empathy and social support network goes. Lastly, I'll say there's plenty of creeps out there that aren't autistic. That's such a horrible stereotype. If anything, most autistic guys I've met have been very nice although maybe too forward and that definitely is uncomfortable when that happens. A lot of times it's clear they just don't know any better, and like anyone else, can correct their behavior with guidance. I think in your situation, outside friendly suggestions, I'd stay out of it. He's an adult. He needs to get to a place where he wants to address his behavior. It won't happen until he comes to that conclusion on his own.
@@ProudlyAutisticThats exactly my stance on it. He is over 40, older than me, and I dont feel comfortable suggesting he might have autism because he is otherwise quite happy with himself other than that he doesn't know why he struggles with social situations.
I'm suspicious/wary of people that want to keep relationships at a very shallow level. I read that to mean that they are unfriendly and don't like me and don't have my best interests at heart. Like you mentioned - as an Autistic person I have no interest at all in shallow, small-talk only relationships - they are a total waste of time. Of course sometimes things are just simple transactional interactions like if you were buying a drink from a shop - you might not want to discuss childhood traumas with that person... but then again - maybe that would be good! I always try to build deeper more meaningful relationships with everyone I meet. Most of them don't want that. This tendency might be closely linked with 'limerence'. I'm not sure if you have heard of this term - but if not - it is well worth looking into Karen, because I suspect that you are or were likely limerent based on your traumatic childhood. I certainly used to get obsessively over-attached to people - projecting onto them a fantasy that they can provide all the things which I was so badly lacking.
I can certainly relate to this! I had to read a crap ton of psychology journals to figure out how to break free from the bondage of limerence. It's less stressful for me to make most of my interactions with people transactional. Most of my interactions with people are shallow and disappointing anyway, so I really don't put much effort into it anymore.
Thanks for the video. It seems really daunting to have to think about all this. But that is how it is whenever I learn how NTs are and it gets easier with time. Whan a person with autism doesn’t understand NT behavior, it is the autistic person’s problem; When the NT doesn’t understand autistic behavior, it is the autistic person’s problem. NT privilege. I expect this is true for anyone who is misunderstood by whoever has the power in a social situation, and so when it’s you with the power, you should be kind and seek to understand. But, the people who do this don’t need to be told and the ones who don’t want listen. It’s hard as an autistic person to know who to trust, but that’s what the onion layer model is for right? Anyway thanks, keep up the good work.
Yes, sadly, instead of being ignored on the playground, we now get the adult version called the HR office. We must do our best to get remote jobs and advocate for more remote work. Remove most of the useless social crap we're graded on in offices, and we might actually thrive at work
I agree remote work is a great option if we can get it. I think structure is important though (at least for me), so there would still need to be some accountability, such as regular Teams meetings to make it work (for me).
When I was working as a cleaner six years ago I told a co worker how I was drinking last night and over the weekend and she told my manager. I got in trouble because I called out a lot and she told me she can smell the beer on me!!! Like why would she tell the manager about me. That was my lack of boundaries talking to my co worker like they are my friends. The employees use to talk about me and say I was rude and stuck up. When a employee that I knew told me this I was shocked. He was too because these were what he heard them saying about me, but he knew my sister and he lived close by so he drove me to work and I guess we were aquitance. So as he talked to me a lot he saw of nice and quiet I was and showed no signs of being rude and stuck up.
Autism In a current world where some think that “words are violence”, finding the “line” where words or actions cannot cross becomes more elusive. Most businesses have “codes of conduct” and laws often define what can and can’t be said between co-workers, but it’s often the subtleties that are difficult for many to clearly understand, particularly since they can differ from one co-worker to the next. For example, a “follow up” question during a Monday morning conversation between golf enthusiasts (after “How was your weekend?”) could be “Did you play?” Perfectly fine….unless the fellow golf enthusiast thinks: “It’s none of your business whether or not I played….and I’m thoroughly offended that you asked.” And…. Not fine: to a non-golf enthusiast (also after “How was your weekend?”)…”What did you do?” This follow up question is personally intrusive, regardless of how innocently it was asked. It almost makes some people want to avoid conversations entirely. And that’s too bad.
Excellent observation, thank you! I agree. It's such a fine line. I think our anxiety about the whole situation probably comes across as well and makes people uncomfortable too. For me, I generally understand the rules, but my filter is terrible and I have a hard time not dominating a conversation. It's probably my ADHD. Either way, I've learned to not engage as a protection mechanism. It's sad.
words are not violence , the influence of the (far) left and hate crime laws is like in george orwell 1984 , left wing fascism , when you ban or criminalize freedom of speech like under communism it is undemocratic
I remember telling my collegue that we would have never met if it wasn't for work and although we seem to enjoy eachothers company we basically have nothing in common outside the work environment. To me it was just an observation I made but she acted geniunely upset and hurt. As if I just told her I hated her guts but was forced to put up with her while at work. I just heard you say the very same thing about relationships with coworkers. So did I do something wrong sharing my observation out loud? Was that socially unacceptable?
I struggle with this. I constantly upset women in the workplace while trying to make small talk that they initiate. Then I usually have to recap the conversation to my wife and she will tell me where I "went wrong". I've recently learned you do not want to tell a woman she has thin hair. You also do not want to comment about how you could not see someone behind them because their head was in the way. They may think you're saying they have an abnormally large head. Luckily I have not been reported yet though.
This is tricky. On a personal level, I'd probably keep it on the grocery cashier or maybe random coworker territory. They will ask you personal questions because it's their job, but I wouldn't reciprocate with equivalent questions (other than basic niceties). They're doing a job. They care, but they are NOT your friend in a traditional sense (I know it can feel this way, but they're trained to make you feel comfortable).They are there to help you. So yeah, feel comfortable telling them whatever because that's how they help. But keep in mind why they're there. They're paid to talk to you. Great question, I hope it helps
Hi Proudly Autistic, I know this is not a question regarding the subject of this video, but I was wondering when and why you were diagnosed with ADHD? An what kind of ADHD you are diagnosed with. Have a nice day ! Best, malu
The theory is so simple, but ... Good explanation, but as a person who has had exactly these problems in all jobs where several people and hierarchies were involved, I believe that the pure theory will not necessarily lead to communication success, at least that's how it was for me. Maybe it will work better for the other viewers.
Why does the other person get to dictate the level of familiarity in the relationship? I love when my cashiers or coworkers or any other random person I come across during a day show up as a real person. It makes my day more fun. How do we know that others don't feel the same way when we show up as our real self?
I find that a lot of time they're just being polite. Not always. But often they want to wrap the conversation to get back to work. For the service industry, conversations can cause lines and other issues. There's a time and place, which is the reason why these types of conversations stay transactional.
Because it would be exhausting if you had to force yourself to be friends with everyone who wants to be your friend, including people who you might not particularly enjoy the company of for a reason or another. I'm still a student, but I suspect that when I'll enter the workplace, I'd rather keep a cordial relationship with my coworkers. The work place is for work, outside is for socializing. I have a hard time switching back and forth and it would make me way less productive qnd invest way too much energy into people I, at the end of the day, didn't even choose to have in ly life.
![Diggy Graves - Red Vineyard [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8Ro085T0mnQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Very illustrative and helpful, Thank you!
This is a huge issue and I only realized it pretty recently. I've been trying to hone my social skills and I ended up finding this chart on intimacy levels. When talking to a neurotypical person it's important to understand what kind of information they're sharing and roughly match their level of intimacy. I tend to open up way too much the moment I decide I like someone.
I also just want to add since its my first comment on your channel that I really like your videos! You have so much experience with communication in the workplace which give you a valuable perspective on the struggles that autistic people go through. I hope you stick around for a long time.
It's so hard to find the "right" level of sociability. I often close myself off as a defense mechanism because I have such a hard time with my filter when I do start talking. Even if I know the rules, I find the words just come out 🤦♀️ This might be my ADHD, not sure. I do seem to have a much harder time than my autistic (not AuDHD) friends controlling my filter.
Thank you for your support and kind words 💛 I do plan to prioritize communication and employment issues as well as heavier topics impacting our community moving forward.
Knowing where these lines are for each relationship is a blurr for me. I had a small filter for it before I got a traumatic brain injury now I have no filter and can't mask or camouflage well anymore. I find myself either going all out as my true self or completely walling myself off. It's hard! People say I'm extremely friendly, kind and authentic but, I get reprimanded for crossing lines and no one tells me how to avoid it next time. They expect me to know automatically. I've gotten my heart broken a few times this year for not knowing and being reprimanded or regected. I really struggle to understand. I feel you.
If we lived in a society where people were direct and then communicated their desires or needs to us, it'd be different. Ive had a lifetime of being expected to know what's what. I'm so thankful for these videos, but I'm frustrated too because it's still so hard to know where the lines are.
I used to be very guarded before my traumatic brain injury, but now it’s like the floodgates are always open! I so relate to your comment and I’m glad you shared. Having a TBI is so frustrating and painful when people misjudge your character because of this invisible injury. I wish you all the best. 💜
I love the props too. I wish someone had shown me this years ago. I didn't realize this was a thing until recently. That my coworkers don't want to be friends. The people I work with now are very transactional with occasional work banter but it is very limited. I was trying to have conversations with people but they would just cut me off and I was like ok that's weird... normally if this happened I would get depressed and think that I did something wrong, but I finally realized that not everyone wants to be my friend. I don't know if the work world changed or I changed, but when I was younger I would form close friendships at work. Maybe it just depends on the place...or maybe when I was younger it was cute to be weird, but now that I'm late 30's, it's not as cute.
I didn't understand the extent of my differences and that there are social rules until my 30s. Before that I just thought people liked you or they didn't.... and that for some rason people mostly disliked me. At work, I think culture can go a long way in making it better for us. That's the number one thing we should be looking at with a new employer, as it's an indicator of how successful and happy we'll be....
Or is it if you're a teen you're at a different point in life. people starting a new phase is more open to letting new in where those settled are more closed off keep to their partners long time old friendships In 30s people tend to be married with kids their focus is the family earning money for family. Teens are learning about themselves exploring faze young 20s they are still interested in meting getting to know people they more likely to be single just out of high school looking for a new tribe.
That is all a guess from observing Im not that good understanding people but been trying to get the patterns. basically, those that might be starting a new point seem more interested in meeting getting to learn take in new things where those that are settle into a pattern have no room tend not to be open to something new. It's easier to find friendly people example beginning of college everyone is starting a new phase old friends separated maybe new location. where if you're the only new person at a place where everyone already got their clicks and routines your invisible and they don't want to be bother due to having a full schedule
Im in 30s during pandemic took a job that was mostly young college age and they that also was new for season were really friendly inclusive if having a convo where those working for years that also a few years older maybe late 20s -30s some married kept to self-colder to new people but friendly towards those that been working with them for years likely started with them. Then there was those close to Retirment that where i guess the type of friendly that the lady mentioned in vid as acquittance level but that group between them had a really close bound hang out after work they been working together many years they are also at the age where kids moved out so different stage not worried about taking care of kids
Most useful presentation and the onion model is handy to check frequently how each relationship evolves. Thanks!
Great video!😁
This is really helpful. I had to learn all this the hard way. As someone who was diagnosed later in life (33 years old) with “mild autism”, it was very difficult for me to navigate in the real world (of humans). I ended up getting burned out really bad. Thank you for the video as it confirms my experiences.
I learned my lesson. I ceased all attempts at amicable and amorous associations, interactions, and bonds. The emotional pain experienced assures I will never attempt to meet people again. I have no friends, no girlfriend, no acqaintences. However, I am safe. There will likely never be humans in my life again.
😢
This is immensely sad, but I have often felt like taking the same approach. I have had so much hurt and disrespect from people who were supposed to be partners. I'm sure it's down to misunderstanding. But I seem to conclude that I'm just not meant to be with anyone.
You can meet a person that will be good, honest, loving towards you, they exist. Don't give up on all relationships, people treating you badly is not your fault. You can still experience healthy relationships, don't resign from happiness you can have because of people that treat you how they shouldn't. Believe in yourself you can achieve the life you want.
This is the way.
I wish I was better at knowing how other people viewed the relationship. It's helpful to know these rules, but I'm not good at realizing when someone only wants acquaintance good-vibes only small talk, or only wants minimal co-worker transactions. Do we also only wait for the NT to 'make the first move' towards friendship? The person that inspired this video seems to have put herself out there and it blew up in her face.
I received my diagnosis at 30. I wish someone would have taught me this. I always reached out to people without any social boundaries. I always felt that I would open and talk to everyone, doenst matter especially hierarchy. In fact, I never believe and still believe in any sort of hiearchy but reality kicks in. I struggle with give and take relationships. When connections are deeper I dont know how and what I should provide back or when its the right moment. I also agree with you about shallow conversations and connections: they are pointless. What is the sense to say hi or keep in touch if we never liked or we will ever meet again? Recently I moved in a new city and to be very frank to make new friends its horrible. I noticed that many people enjoy shallow conversations which makes me very bored and angry. It seems like many people prefer to be "acquaintance" mode which I find it pointless. Be autistic it feels lonely sometimes. I feel like Im a very different piece of puzzle that does not match. Thank you for your video and to adress such sensitive topic.
it's funny how ignorant neuropypicals, so not all of them, think autistic people are stupid but t hen we are the ones who always have to adapt to them to get along and we all know that the most advanced are the ones who adaps so basically with their actions are admitting we are better overall as we are expected to adapt to them. They have yet to realize this earth sucks because the rules on it were mostly created by them, a sign of true stupidity on their part. I was legitically called savant by my recent ex who knew nothing about autism but what they used to say forty years ago and never bothered to go learn, he loved me so much, just li ke my brother. They dismiss it and mock it but then somehow they claim to love us. Much, love, great work. THANK YOU.
I only ever have two levels so it's weird to learn there are so many distinct levels. Your channel is much more relatable than others for some reason. Could you do a video about texting and/or social media? Family members include me in group texts and it feels like SO MUCH work is being foisted on me to keep up and to respond to everything, it's very frustrating. I feel like they are being callous and they tell me I'm "isolating" if I block them. I run into similar problems every time I attempt to use social media
Thanks for this explanation. I appreciated the visual aids and the fact that you get straight to the point :)
I didn't know that co-workers mostly existed in the "transactional realm" until my therapist told me something similar about a year ago. At first, I was so confused, because I thought me and some of my former co-workers were really close. In retrospect, it makes sense. About 3 years ago I went through a really rough time in my personal life, and I think I brought too much of that "stuff" to work and would discuss it somewhat often with my co-workers. I think I thought that we were closer than we actually were, because I always got this vibe that they didn't really care about what I was saying beyond responding with cliches like "Oh I'm so sorry." I felt so alone cause I didn't think they cared about me in that way. It turns out I was right about that fact, but for the wrong reason. Our relationship was just purely transactional and I was the only one who didn't get the memo on that one.
I have to be honest that not understanding these kinds of things is a source of embarrassment for me sometimes. It's so difficult to exist in this world and have a chronic feeling of not really understanding not just how to relate with people, but also not really understanding the status of your relationships too. I don't know how neurotypicals can just intuitively understand these things..
That's such an excellent point, about not knowing how to relate or understanding the status of the relationship. It's a familiar place for me and I withdraw as a result. A family friend just told me how she perceives me as shy. I'm not shy! I'm just guarded because it never ends well.
I've also found myself in a place of overstaying during a difficult life event. It wasn't until people asked me if I had a therapist that I realized I was divulging too much. I had a hard time understanding the line. However, in contrast, if you clam up out of self preservation, you're considered stand offish which can also be problematic career wise. It's a difficult situation.
@@ProudlyAutistic On top of that, there are power games being played by NTs nearly all the time. What's oversharing and burdensome on your end may be perfectly acceptable if they're the ones doing the oversharing. There are all kinds of double standards and moving goalposts at play if people sense you are vulnerable in some way. Since we can't read people and social situations the same way, that's our vulnerability and NTs 100% take advantage.
Well explained and great topic to cover ! I've always struggled with this and, while I've improved at it somewhat with age, it's still an area of weakness for me when I interact with others that aren't close family or friends. knowing it's a weak area for me, I generally tend to err on the side of caution when interacting with others and hold back a bit rather than risk going in too deep and oversharing, or offending someone, etc.
I do this too. Unfortunately, I think this compounds the issue as we're then perceived as standoffish. I don't think we can win either way.
@@ProudlyAutistic I agree.
I know an undiagnosed guy. At his job, he thinks everyone should be friendly to him. If not, he becomes stressed and even depressed about it. Any girl he is interested in, he bothers, and asked intrusive questions such as: do you want to go eat something later with me, do you have a boyfriend, etc. Note that he barely knows any of them, they are just co-workers or customers. If he gets some answer, eventually, days later or sooner, he will follow up asking: whats your boyfriends name, etc. So he doesn't know or care about social boundaries or that everyone has their own different social boundaries, he only cares about what he thinks or want or expect; and he is very aggressive. This is beyond being friendly or kind to strangers or others.
He has gotten in trouble multiple times at his work especially for being creepy to female co-workers and it is a known pattern even at work. He thinks he is just being friendly, and that hes not doing anything wrong.
I have told him that you keep work and your personal life separate and so on - you cant treat someone who's trying to rob you the same way you treat your mom, etc. You can say we are acquaintances not by my choice but i don't mind him.
Now I can't confirm if he is autistic. I also feel that if i bring this possibility up to him he would not only laughed at the idea, because he is very boastful and proud of himself, and I am sure he would be aggressively offended. But I do feel that he is strongly autistic, in this case in the social area, in a very negative and aggressive way.
Do you think he is autistic, at least in this area of social boundaries. I myself know what autism is and I have autism, but not in this area, not in this intrusive and boundry-less way. I can see that he is both naive and friendly but also very inconsiderate and rude and aggressive and i think other people can see this also. I am off-put by him but also feel kind of bad for him. Because people should be friendly with each other. But hes going too far with it. I feel like if he knew he is guaranteed autistic, especially in this social area with his specific problems, then he might be able to at least work on his problems at work. He is a very nerdy, obsessive, and attachy person.
Last of all, I don't want to be mistaken and turns out hes just crazy or a creep which he is. But then the question is, are all creeps autistic... even if not all autistic are creeps. If you have a take on it, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
Last thing... the guy I know seems to be in a far more problematic situation than the person you are speaking of, but still this doesn't exactly mean hes autistic, so i would like a second opinion.
I'm not sure how it will help the situation if you know his autism status.
When I was younger, I was much more arrogant because some things seemed very simple to me. It looked like others were complicating things that were very easy. But I was humble enough to not be certain.
He needs to know he's doing things differently than others. And the reactions he gets are a reflection of the differences in his behavior.
Eventually, he might start raging out at everyone for being unfair to him.
I'd say be careful because he might lash out at you because you're trying to be nice to him, and he might see your efforts as his actual problem.
You can choose to try to be helpful. But understand if he's blind to soe things, and doesn't know he's blind. He might just think you're another person just picking on him and being a jerk.
So whatever you choose, make sure you're not going to be turned into his scapegoat. It's still very kind of you to care.
If only more people cared, it would be a better world.
The term work and professional life separate might be very vague. So I'd say people at work are there to get money, not friends. They might want to keep it that way. No friends, just money.
You join some online groups to get friends.
Also, at work, people have to be kind even if they don't want to. So, if you keep pushing your kindness on them, they will feel overwhelmed and bad.
Also, people don't automatically become friends as adults. They warm up to each other more slowly.
But none of this will help if he thinks he's more intelligent than everyone. And if he's aggressive, I would be much less likely to say anything to him.
I agree that he might not take constructive criticism well. Being autistic does not mean that you're unable to be reflective and pursue personal growth. It just might not be a high priority for some or they might struggle to identify appropriate goals. It sounds like he either doesn't care or lacks the curiosity to recognize his differences.
I suspect upbringing might have something to do with it too, as far as his empathy and social support network goes.
Lastly, I'll say there's plenty of creeps out there that aren't autistic. That's such a horrible stereotype. If anything, most autistic guys I've met have been very nice although maybe too forward and that definitely is uncomfortable when that happens. A lot of times it's clear they just don't know any better, and like anyone else, can correct their behavior with guidance.
I think in your situation, outside friendly suggestions, I'd stay out of it. He's an adult. He needs to get to a place where he wants to address his behavior. It won't happen until he comes to that conclusion on his own.
@@loverainthundergreat assessment. I agree!
@@ProudlyAutisticThats exactly my stance on it. He is over 40, older than me, and I dont feel comfortable suggesting he might have autism because he is otherwise quite happy with himself other than that he doesn't know why he struggles with social situations.
I'm suspicious/wary of people that want to keep relationships at a very shallow level. I read that to mean that they are unfriendly and don't like me and don't have my best interests at heart. Like you mentioned - as an Autistic person I have no interest at all in shallow, small-talk only relationships - they are a total waste of time. Of course sometimes things are just simple transactional interactions like if you were buying a drink from a shop - you might not want to discuss childhood traumas with that person... but then again - maybe that would be good! I always try to build deeper more meaningful relationships with everyone I meet. Most of them don't want that. This tendency might be closely linked with 'limerence'. I'm not sure if you have heard of this term - but if not - it is well worth looking into Karen, because I suspect that you are or were likely limerent based on your traumatic childhood. I certainly used to get obsessively over-attached to people - projecting onto them a fantasy that they can provide all the things which I was so badly lacking.
I can certainly relate to this! I had to read a crap ton of psychology journals to figure out how to break free from the bondage of limerence. It's less stressful for me to make most of my interactions with people transactional. Most of my interactions with people are shallow and disappointing anyway, so I really don't put much effort into it anymore.
I really love your videos too! Thank you for your work
Thank you for your support 💛
I only started learning this kind of stuff from RUclips at 59. Before that I had no guidance and made lots of mistakes I regret.
it a helpful way to show the information
Thanks for the video. It seems really daunting to have to think about all this. But that is how it is whenever I learn how NTs are and it gets easier with time.
Whan a person with autism doesn’t understand NT behavior, it is the autistic person’s problem; When the NT doesn’t understand autistic behavior, it is the autistic person’s problem. NT privilege.
I expect this is true for anyone who is misunderstood by whoever has the power in a social situation, and so when it’s you with the power, you should be kind and seek to understand. But, the people who do this don’t need to be told and the ones who don’t want listen.
It’s hard as an autistic person to know who to trust, but that’s what the onion layer model is for right?
Anyway thanks, keep up the good work.
Yes, sadly, instead of being ignored on the playground, we now get the adult version called the HR office. We must do our best to get remote jobs and advocate for more remote work. Remove most of the useless social crap we're graded on in offices, and we might actually thrive at work
I agree remote work is a great option if we can get it. I think structure is important though (at least for me), so there would still need to be some accountability, such as regular Teams meetings to make it work (for me).
Yeah, at this point in my life I don't trust most people.
Same haha
Love the props 😂 good stuff
When I was working as a cleaner six years ago I told a co worker how I was drinking last night and over the weekend and she told my manager. I got in trouble because I called out a lot and she told me she can smell the beer on me!!! Like why would she tell the manager about me. That was my lack of boundaries talking to my co worker like they are my friends. The employees use to talk about me and say I was rude and stuck up. When a employee that I knew told me this I was shocked. He was too because these were what he heard them saying about me, but he knew my sister and he lived close by so he drove me to work and I guess we were aquitance. So as he talked to me a lot he saw of nice and quiet I was and showed no signs of being rude and stuck up.
I'm sorry that happened to you. Your coworkers acted inappropriately and jumped to conclusions..I hope your work situation has improved 💛
Autism
In a current world where some think that “words are violence”, finding the “line” where words or actions cannot cross becomes more elusive.
Most businesses have “codes of conduct” and laws often define what can and can’t be said between co-workers, but it’s often the subtleties that are difficult for many to clearly understand, particularly since they can differ from one co-worker to the next.
For example, a “follow up” question during a Monday morning conversation between golf enthusiasts (after “How was your weekend?”) could be “Did you play?” Perfectly fine….unless the fellow golf enthusiast thinks: “It’s none of your business whether or not I played….and I’m thoroughly offended that you asked.” And….
Not fine: to a non-golf enthusiast (also after “How was your weekend?”)…”What did you do?” This follow up question is personally intrusive, regardless of how innocently it was asked.
It almost makes some people want to avoid conversations entirely. And that’s too bad.
Excellent observation, thank you! I agree. It's such a fine line. I think our anxiety about the whole situation probably comes across as well and makes people uncomfortable too. For me, I generally understand the rules, but my filter is terrible and I have a hard time not dominating a conversation. It's probably my ADHD. Either way, I've learned to not engage as a protection mechanism. It's sad.
words are not violence , the influence of the (far) left and hate crime laws is like in george orwell 1984 , left wing fascism , when you ban or criminalize freedom of speech like under communism it is undemocratic
I remember telling my collegue that we would have never met if it wasn't for work and although we seem to enjoy eachothers company we basically have nothing in common outside the work environment. To me it was just an observation I made but she acted geniunely upset and hurt. As if I just told her I hated her guts but was forced to put up with her while at work.
I just heard you say the very same thing about relationships with coworkers. So did I do something wrong sharing my observation out loud? Was that socially unacceptable?
How to deal with progression and regression in the layers?
I struggle with this. I constantly upset women in the workplace while trying to make small talk that they initiate. Then I usually have to recap the conversation to my wife and she will tell me where I "went wrong". I've recently learned you do not want to tell a woman she has thin hair. You also do not want to comment about how you could not see someone behind them because their head was in the way. They may think you're saying they have an abnormally large head. Luckily I have not been reported yet though.
Where would you categorize the relationship between therapist and the person who's on the receiving end of therapeutic advice?
This is tricky. On a personal level, I'd probably keep it on the grocery cashier or maybe random coworker territory. They will ask you personal questions because it's their job, but I wouldn't reciprocate with equivalent questions (other than basic niceties). They're doing a job. They care, but they are NOT your friend in a traditional sense (I know it can feel this way, but they're trained to make you feel comfortable).They are there to help you. So yeah, feel comfortable telling them whatever because that's how they help. But keep in mind why they're there. They're paid to talk to you. Great question, I hope it helps
Hi Proudly Autistic, I know this is not a question regarding the subject of this video, but I was wondering when and why you were diagnosed with ADHD? An what kind of ADHD you are diagnosed with. Have a nice day ! Best, malu
The theory is so simple, but ...
Good explanation, but as a person who has had exactly these problems in all jobs where several people and hierarchies were involved, I believe that the pure theory will not necessarily lead to communication success, at least that's how it was for me. Maybe it will work better for the other viewers.
Why does the other person get to dictate the level of familiarity in the relationship? I love when my cashiers or coworkers or any other random person I come across during a day show up as a real person. It makes my day more fun. How do we know that others don't feel the same way when we show up as our real self?
I find that a lot of time they're just being polite. Not always. But often they want to wrap the conversation to get back to work. For the service industry, conversations can cause lines and other issues. There's a time and place, which is the reason why these types of conversations stay transactional.
Because it would be exhausting if you had to force yourself to be friends with everyone who wants to be your friend, including people who you might not particularly enjoy the company of for a reason or another. I'm still a student, but I suspect that when I'll enter the workplace, I'd rather keep a cordial relationship with my coworkers. The work place is for work, outside is for socializing. I have a hard time switching back and forth and it would make me way less productive qnd invest way too much energy into people I, at the end of the day, didn't even choose to have in ly life.
I get so irritated with small talk that I make it even smaller.
"Man it's windy outside!"
"Whew... wind right?"
Somehow this is acceptable to people.
Been beyond obvious for nearly 8 years.
It's funny though....for the longest time, it wasn't, at least for me. It didn't occur to me that people weren't as transparent as I was.
@@ProudlyAutistic 🤷♀️