Obviously G'Kar not wanting more than revenge on the Centauri and then not considering moving on to the rest of the galaxy is the main reason Morden goes with Londo and the Centauri. I also think that G'Kar's last "wish" is what pushes it over the line. He wants his people to be SAFE and that is one thing the Shadows will never ever grant. Interestingly, we eventually see all of the "what do you wants?" granted. The Centauri rise again then when they fall, G'Kar's desire for their skies to be blackened and their planet and people crushed also comes to pass. Of course, Vir's later desire is met in the most satisfying way possible.
Well G`Kar wanted revenge...and nothing more than to go back to a life he had never known...peace and quiet. Unsuited for the purpose of Mr Morden´s...associates. Also great to rewatch the show and focus on Vir and what he says.
This is the first episode of the show that I remember watching; I may have seen earlier episodes, but if so they didn't leave much of an impression. It helped that my best friend's younger sister spent months afterwards starting conversations with "What do you want?"
@oldered5663 not sure if Garak counts as an antagonist. Dukat was great before he became a demon worshipper though. Weyoun was my favourite DS9 villan.
@@Edax_Royeaux In theory, but in practice they absolutely were, and the Vorlons were also all jerks aside from Kosh. So the nuance of "Chaos isn't evil" is absent while we get plenty of "order isn't good"
First time I went through Babylon 5, I knew nothing about it, so for the boring raider plot to end with being wiped out by the shadows left me with one question: What was that? The last full episode I saw from that attempt was TKO.
Morden goes to the aliens, but skips the humans, presumably cause hes already talked to Clark. But then, i wonder what he was expecting with the Minbari. Wouldn't he know that they're already tied to the Vorlons? I suppose theres other reasons why he didn't pick G'Kar. The Narn are driven mostly by vengeance at this point, not conquest (though to be fair its been years since i saw B5) and they already have a famine. Kinda hard to go full marauder when youre hungry. And considering that we find out later that the Shadows already messed with the Narn, maybe they weren't an ideal pick anyway, and Morden was just being thorough. Though, itd be funny if G'Kar asked if he could have Narn telepaths...
If Mr. Morden couldn't survive approaching the Minbari, then he wasn't fit for purpose. And just because the Minbari fought for the Vorlons in the last war doesn't mean they haven't changed in the meantime. Especially when you consider _B4_ and the Shadows' apparent success with Clark.
I'm guessing the Minbari was to test if they could be tempted from their alliance of old after the blinding rage they had unleashed upon humanity, or just to semi-discreetly rub it in that "we're back."
@ No I meant Jeffery Combs, the actor who plays Weyoun, who appears in the Babylon 5 episode Eyes - whom you might not recognise because he doesn't appear in makeup (stole that line directly from Chuck's reviiew of that episode)
Hmm, interesting change from the original to this one. he switched fixing season 5 to fixing the Byron plotline. to be fair, I don't think Bryon's plot is the ONLY problem in season 5, though having recently rewatched the series thanks to streaming, I can agree it's probably the worst, given it feels out of place. Which it is, as it was written for the Earth War plot, and kind of shoved into the post peace plot, which causes issues with its pacing, and overall conclusion.
I always wonder exactly what Morden got out of all of it. Was it that chance for power? Tearing down the galaxy? Man certainly seemed to enjoy his work.
Morden: "Ah, sir. You are a hard man to contact. Have you ever considered a simple question. Wha-" Me pulling out a PPG rifle and aiming it fully charged over his shoulder: "There is a reason certain proclamations are in place at a multiversal level. This is not the place you think it is. And your benefactors would be best to remember their agreements from beyond the rim."
"Some favors come at too high of a price."
Tell the truth: when Chuck asked you to give Mr. Morden a wave, did you?
The 90s, a time when we could imagine people like Vir getting to rule
@ We can still imagine. We just have to fight like 10 hells to make it happen, and accept that it's a long shot.
Obviously G'Kar not wanting more than revenge on the Centauri and then not considering moving on to the rest of the galaxy is the main reason Morden goes with Londo and the Centauri. I also think that G'Kar's last "wish" is what pushes it over the line. He wants his people to be SAFE and that is one thing the Shadows will never ever grant.
Interestingly, we eventually see all of the "what do you wants?" granted. The Centauri rise again then when they fall, G'Kar's desire for their skies to be blackened and their planet and people crushed also comes to pass. Of course, Vir's later desire is met in the most satisfying way possible.
Well G`Kar wanted revenge...and nothing more than to go back to a life he had never known...peace and quiet. Unsuited for the purpose of Mr Morden´s...associates.
Also great to rewatch the show and focus on Vir and what he says.
Two people got what they wanted in the worst way possible, two people got it in the best way possible. Rather fitting in that regard.
It always resonated with me when Londo describes life as like being late for an appointment.
This is the first episode of the show that I remember watching; I may have seen earlier episodes, but if so they didn't leave much of an impression.
It helped that my best friend's younger sister spent months afterwards starting conversations with "What do you want?"
This episode is where B5's Season 1 metastory got into overdrive.
Morden was so great, a fantastic antagonist.
90's sci-fi had some great antagonists:
Q, Gul Dukat, Elim Garak, Annorax, and Scorpius ( very late 90's )
Though he did get a bit flaky at times.
@ I though Scorpius was more early 2000's
@oldered5663 not sure if Garak counts as an antagonist. Dukat was great before he became a demon worshipper though. Weyoun was my favourite DS9 villan.
How to make a simple question an arc question and the start of the horrors to come.
"What do you want?"
"Ah! Mr. Morden!"
I love Morden as the devil showing up on the station making deals.
Oh ho ho, he ain't the devil, he just works for them.
@@bthsr7113 I thought the whole point was the Shadows weren't devils, they were just being painted that way by the Vorlons?
@@Edax_Royeaux In theory, but in practice they absolutely were, and the Vorlons were also all jerks aside from Kosh. So the nuance of "Chaos isn't evil" is absent while we get plenty of "order isn't good"
@@kevinramsey417 It was faustian.
First time I went through Babylon 5, I knew nothing about it, so for the boring raider plot to end with being wiped out by the shadows left me with one question: What was that?
The last full episode I saw from that attempt was TKO.
"Let's all wave at him" 😂🤣
So the ship the raders use is a great idea that I don't think is used enough.
I love this show I really need to rewatch it again.
Morden goes to the aliens, but skips the humans, presumably cause hes already talked to Clark. But then, i wonder what he was expecting with the Minbari. Wouldn't he know that they're already tied to the Vorlons?
I suppose theres other reasons why he didn't pick G'Kar. The Narn are driven mostly by vengeance at this point, not conquest (though to be fair its been years since i saw B5) and they already have a famine. Kinda hard to go full marauder when youre hungry. And considering that we find out later that the Shadows already messed with the Narn, maybe they weren't an ideal pick anyway, and Morden was just being thorough. Though, itd be funny if G'Kar asked if he could have Narn telepaths...
If Mr. Morden couldn't survive approaching the Minbari, then he wasn't fit for purpose.
And just because the Minbari fought for the Vorlons in the last war doesn't mean they haven't changed in the meantime. Especially when you consider _B4_ and the Shadows' apparent success with Clark.
I'm guessing the Minbari was to test if they could be tempted from their alliance of old after the blinding rage they had unleashed upon humanity, or just to semi-discreetly rub it in that "we're back."
Ahhh the entry of Weyoun, without any need to prepare the actor beyond dressing him up.
Wrong Episode, you are thinking of Eyes.
@@jatkinson85 ...Mr Morden was introduced in the Ari Ben Zayn episode?
@ No I meant Jeffery Combs, the actor who plays Weyoun, who appears in the Babylon 5 episode Eyes - whom you might not recognise because he doesn't appear in makeup (stole that line directly from Chuck's reviiew of that episode)
@@jatkinson85 Well I didn´t mean him, I meant the smiling used car salesman working for the ancient power.
I want to live just long enough...
You really should have used Lando's "Mr Morden" every time you needed to say his name...
Hmm, interesting change from the original to this one. he switched fixing season 5 to fixing the Byron plotline. to be fair, I don't think Bryon's plot is the ONLY problem in season 5, though having recently rewatched the series thanks to streaming, I can agree it's probably the worst, given it feels out of place. Which it is, as it was written for the Earth War plot, and kind of shoved into the post peace plot, which causes issues with its pacing, and overall conclusion.
I always wonder exactly what Morden got out of all of it. Was it that chance for power? Tearing down the galaxy? Man certainly seemed to enjoy his work.
Only give plastics cups to psychics. Good tip
G'Kar got what he wanted. But he no longer wanted it then.
_This is the tale of Mr Morden_
_Mr. Morden is who?…_
Morden: "Ah, sir. You are a hard man to contact. Have you ever considered a simple question. Wha-"
Me pulling out a PPG rifle and aiming it fully charged over his shoulder: "There is a reason certain proclamations are in place at a multiversal level. This is not the place you think it is. And your benefactors would be best to remember their agreements from beyond the rim."
When did comstar get PPG tech? Like, I know the Cappellans made a plasma rifle, but that operates rather differently.