The way crossfit labels certain movements "functional" and others "not functional" is bizarre. The snatch and OH squat are two of the least "functional" movements I can think of. Sure, they are great exercises, but they don't in any way meet any reasonable definition of "functional". The bicep curl and bench press are two of the most functional movements one can do with barbells / dumbells, yet crossfit says they "aren't functional". I think they should just say that there are certain movements they like and certain movements they don't like - just don't try to make up crazy justifications around "functionality".
Michael Vansant I think a bicep curl is very functional. It's very seldom that you're going to be able to clean things in the real world. If you pick up a heavy pot and move it somewhere you're essentially holding a static, curl position. Also, delicate objects can't be cleaned and need to "curled"; maybe a shopping bag full of eggs, etc.
Steven Southrey kudos sir, I was thinking the same thing on how the bicep plays a big part in compensating oh pulling movements. Since the body is so smart, even if we try to isolate a movement to just make the back work it'll trigger the supporting muscle in order to accomplish the movement.
Using sumo to load bales of hay. What a city slicker. Conventional deadlift the bale by the wires, and load the bale on your knee, kick your leg up, then toss the bale.
The difference b/t lifting a bail of hay and SDHP is that when lift the hay, your arms and shoulders are not fixed at the same horizontal angle throughout the movement. You would also not lift a bail of hay with the elbows higher than the wrists all the way through. SDHP is probably fine with dumbells, and if you allow the wrist to rise higher than the shoulder at max height, and avoiding the impingement of the shoulders. Or why not just do cleans and avoid the whole thing?
The danger comes when executed poorly, (which most do ) under fatigue, or the individual has low kinesthetic awareness. Also most people do not have even close to a proper functioning shoulder. The movement itsself is not the only problem.
Nothing is "dangerous" in performing the movement without any load, as the video shows. The SDHP does become "dangerous", or maybe a better way to put it, "risky", once you are performing reps with a heavy load. Once fatigue happens then form suffers, and muscle imbalances, lack of flexibility, and improper functioning shoulder all come to front. I bet there are a ton of shoulder impingements out there due to SDHP's.
exactly!!! TO BE FAIR, there is NO UNSAFE MOTION if the WEIGHT is LOW ENOUGH. However, you better make sure the weight is very controllable for the sumo dead lift or you WILL fuck up your shoulder.
It depends on your goals. If your intention is to become a great weightlifter for sport, then yes, snatch high pull would be more beneficial. If your intention is to be fit for life, the sumo deadlift high pull has much more carryover to everyday life. How often do you pick up something with a snatch grip versus a sumo stance?
@@spencergsmith I would never split my legs to pick something up. That is an unnatural body position in real life and is only used in weightlifting to shorten your range of motion. I hope you see your error in opinion.
@@4kdefinition70 that's funny, because I use a wide stance and narrow grip to pick things up all the time. Not everything is going to be conducive to lifting with a "conventional" stance, such as furniture, large boxes, etc. I hope you see your error in thought.
@@spencergsmith if you pick things up in a "sumo stance", then your not actually in a sumo stance. your legs are wider than your arms. as you said. from what you said that's your reference wide stance narrow grip. sumo is the same grip with your toes touching your plates. i can pull all day with my ankles touching and mywrists touching but it isnt sumo.
@@4kdefinition70 that may be YOUR definition of sumo stance, but that isn't necessarily correct. I can pick up MANY different objects with a sumo stance, and most of them are not a barbell with plates (so I can't have my "toes touching the plates"). The term "sumo" is derived from "sumahu," which is Japanese for "to fight" and the sumo stance is modeled after Japanese wrestlers who take a wide stance. They certainly aren't lifting a barbell when wrestling. Anytime your feet are wider than shoulder width and turned out, that is sumo. I can sumo deadlift a kettlebell, a medicine ball, or even my toddler. This also aligns with CrossFit's parameters, as they don't teach "toes touching your plates" but rather simply feet wider than shoulder width, and hands inside your legs. So my point stands, that of the MANY times I've lifted this way, both in the gym and in life, I've utilized sumo deadlifting and sumo deadlift high pulls.
We're designed for survival, and that means we're designed for multi-joint movements, from the motor cortex to the connective tissues to the angles of the joints. Want to disprove Crossfit's definition of functional? Easy. Do nothing but isolation movements and enter a fitness competition where the movements, times, distances, and loads are unknown.
Yes he did. You just dont listen, when he compared it to loading the hey and the other stuff into the truck in the army, that was what he meant by functional. It translates to a common movement pattern.
Functional movement = replicates something you do in every day life. He meant that loading the bales of hay and the duffel bags mimicked the same movement as the SDHP itself, hence the crossover of the exercise being a functional movement :)
Title states: "Why Sumo Deadlift High Pull?" He never explains why. He just discusses the debate over the movement, never the "why" we should be doing it. The benefit of the SDHP over other movements.
Plays_For_Dog On the contrary, he explains "why" by refuting the critics. The critics claim the SDHP is neither functional nor safe. He explains why it is both functional and safe. And that explains why we should do it. Because it's functional and safe.
Thomas van Rijsselt thank you - sure doing 30 rép with 180 lbs clean or 400 lbs dlf will get anybody big, but the question is how do you get to this kind of heavy load ? - i still think that a lot of crossfit competitors clearly have a bodybuilding background : dan bailey was already very big in 2011, froning has clearly a 'meathead' background too... i still dont understand clearly how crossfit succeed in mixing strength, hypertrophy, and conditionning (that is, all around fitness) in one super-kind of training... any video or text link about this ?
pierrot monami hmm have to think about that, can't think of anything. Personally i feel like it's been really effective for me. But don't know why it's working so good ;) these top competitors obv squated there asses of for a lot of years...
Thomas van Rijsselt i've seen the video that you have put on youtube on 2009, you were not looking "big" but already doing 21 hand stand push up in a row. can i ask you how much weight you have put on since then (if getting bigger is an objective for you) ?
The way crossfit labels certain movements "functional" and others "not functional" is bizarre. The snatch and OH squat are two of the least "functional" movements I can think of. Sure, they are great exercises, but they don't in any way meet any reasonable definition of "functional". The bicep curl and bench press are two of the most functional movements one can do with barbells / dumbells, yet crossfit says they "aren't functional". I think they should just say that there are certain movements they like and certain movements they don't like - just don't try to make up crazy justifications around "functionality".
How is a curl functional? More specifically a preacher curl?
Michael Vansant I think a bicep curl is very functional. It's very seldom that you're going to be able to clean things in the real world. If you pick up a heavy pot and move it somewhere you're essentially holding a static, curl position. Also, delicate objects can't be cleaned and need to "curled"; maybe a shopping bag full of eggs, etc.
brian nielsen I think Steven Southrey answered your question very well.
DysTac I think he did as well.
Steven Southrey kudos sir, I was thinking the same thing on how the bicep plays a big part in compensating oh pulling movements. Since the body is so smart, even if we try to isolate a movement to just make the back work it'll trigger the supporting muscle in order to accomplish the movement.
Using sumo to load bales of hay. What a city slicker. Conventional deadlift the bale by the wires, and load the bale on your knee, kick your leg up, then toss the bale.
The difference b/t lifting a bail of hay and SDHP is that when lift the hay, your arms and shoulders are not fixed at the same horizontal angle throughout the movement. You would also not lift a bail of hay with the elbows higher than the wrists all the way through. SDHP is probably fine with dumbells, and if you allow the wrist to rise higher than the shoulder at max height, and avoiding the impingement of the shoulders. Or why not just do cleans and avoid the whole thing?
The danger comes when executed poorly, (which most do ) under fatigue, or the individual has low kinesthetic awareness. Also most people do not have even close to a proper functioning shoulder. The movement itsself is not the only problem.
But is this beneficial for sports performance? I don't think anyone cares to improve their hay bail or bag lifts
I did the Wednesdays WOD today. dang that was tough!
Nothing is "dangerous" in performing the movement without any load, as the video shows. The SDHP does become "dangerous", or maybe a better way to put it, "risky", once you are performing reps with a heavy load. Once fatigue happens then form suffers, and muscle imbalances, lack of flexibility, and improper functioning shoulder all come to front. I bet there are a ton of shoulder impingements out there due to SDHP's.
exactly!!!
TO BE FAIR, there is NO UNSAFE MOTION if the WEIGHT is LOW ENOUGH.
However, you better make sure the weight is very controllable for the sumo dead lift or you WILL fuck up your shoulder.
Everything can be dangerous if performed incorrectly. As he explains in the video, the SDHP is perfectly safe when done properly.
Please show more of these.
In another note I prefer the snatch high pull vs the sumo high pull, more so to program it as a carry over to the snatch.
It depends on your goals. If your intention is to become a great weightlifter for sport, then yes, snatch high pull would be more beneficial. If your intention is to be fit for life, the sumo deadlift high pull has much more carryover to everyday life. How often do you pick up something with a snatch grip versus a sumo stance?
@@spencergsmith I would never split my legs to pick something up.
That is an unnatural body position in real life and is only used in weightlifting to shorten your range of motion.
I hope you see your error in opinion.
@@4kdefinition70 that's funny, because I use a wide stance and narrow grip to pick things up all the time. Not everything is going to be conducive to lifting with a "conventional" stance, such as furniture, large boxes, etc.
I hope you see your error in thought.
@@spencergsmith if you pick things up in a "sumo stance", then your not actually in a sumo stance. your legs are wider than your arms. as you said. from what you said that's your reference wide stance narrow grip. sumo is the same grip with your toes touching your plates. i can pull all day with my ankles touching and mywrists touching but it isnt sumo.
@@4kdefinition70 that may be YOUR definition of sumo stance, but that isn't necessarily correct. I can pick up MANY different objects with a sumo stance, and most of them are not a barbell with plates (so I can't have my "toes touching the plates"). The term "sumo" is derived from "sumahu," which is Japanese for "to fight" and the sumo stance is modeled after Japanese wrestlers who take a wide stance. They certainly aren't lifting a barbell when wrestling. Anytime your feet are wider than shoulder width and turned out, that is sumo. I can sumo deadlift a kettlebell, a medicine ball, or even my toddler. This also aligns with CrossFit's parameters, as they don't teach "toes touching your plates" but rather simply feet wider than shoulder width, and hands inside your legs. So my point stands, that of the MANY times I've lifted this way, both in the gym and in life, I've utilized sumo deadlifting and sumo deadlift high pulls.
We're designed for survival, and that means we're designed for multi-joint movements, from the motor cortex to the connective tissues to the angles of the joints. Want to disprove Crossfit's definition of functional? Easy. Do nothing but isolation movements and enter a fitness competition where the movements, times, distances, and loads are unknown.
The reverberation (echo) effect on this video is excessive.
he didnt give an actual explanation to why its functional or the safety of the excercise..he just says it is
Yes he did. You just dont listen, when he compared it to loading the hey and the other stuff into the truck in the army, that was what he meant by functional. It translates to a common movement pattern.
He never explains "why?". Functional movement is not an explanation.
Functional movement = replicates something you do in every day life. He meant that loading the bales of hay and the duffel bags mimicked the same movement as the SDHP itself, hence the crossover of the exercise being a functional movement :)
Are you asking why one should perform functional movements?
Title states: "Why Sumo Deadlift High Pull?"
He never explains why. He just discusses the debate over the movement, never the "why" we should be doing it. The benefit of the SDHP over other movements.
Plays_For_Dog On the contrary, he explains "why" by refuting the critics. The critics claim the SDHP is neither functional nor safe. He explains why it is both functional and safe. And that explains why we should do it. Because it's functional and safe.
damn, malleolo got big. did he got that big by doing crossfit usual training with lots of metcons? or did he follow bodybuilding-type programming?
lot's of crossfit i think, with a lot of heavy days
Thomas van Rijsselt thank you - sure doing 30 rép with 180 lbs clean or 400 lbs dlf will get anybody big, but the question is how do you get to this kind of heavy load ? - i still think that a lot of crossfit competitors clearly have a bodybuilding background : dan bailey was already very big in 2011, froning has clearly a 'meathead' background too... i still dont understand clearly how crossfit succeed in mixing strength, hypertrophy, and conditionning (that is, all around fitness) in one super-kind of training... any video or text link about this ?
pierrot monami hmm have to think about that, can't think of anything. Personally i feel like it's been really effective for me. But don't know why it's working so good ;) these top competitors obv squated there asses of for a lot of years...
Thomas van Rijsselt i've seen the video that you have put on youtube on 2009, you were not looking "big" but already doing 21 hand stand push up in a row. can i ask you how much weight you have put on since then (if getting bigger is an objective for you) ?
Very bad exercise for your shoulders. Belongs in the iron grave yard! Creates shoulder impingement.