The Shroud is the most analyzed article in antiquity. It has been studied and tested by thousands of scientists. It is unique. Nothing has been found like it, and it can not be reproduced. Basically, it should not exist. The scientists can not explain it. It is an amazing piece of cloth, and it’s history is even more amazing. That piece of cloth has been through a lot in the past 2,000 years.
With all of the technology today, it has been stated that the shroud could not be duplicated...I'm thinking that Faith of course is great, but the miracles of God are unprecedented!
That's not true. We know radiation could make such an image. In fact at the time the shroud was made Haleys comet was passing close to earth (higher levels of radiation) and could have caused it. Haleys comet is most likely the star of bethlehem in the Christian religion. I really don't mean to offend you, I respect your Christian beliefs, but the bible isn't a diary, it's a story to explain to the masses how the world became and very good principles to live by. It's actually based on previous egyptian religions which were taken over and adapted by the Romans.
@@constancegoodwill2416 Don't mean to offend you either Constance but the Bible isn't just a "story" and true Christianity isn't based off of past Egyptian religions who had different "gods'" to explain their lives. The Romans don't even have true "Christianity" as Roman Catholicism is filled with their many traditions that they somehow "fit" into their beliefs. Christianity is not a religion...it is the birth, life, death and resurrection of our Savior Jesus Christ. True belief in Him leads to the Father and eternal life. You should try reading it sometime as it is the most read book in the history of mankind. And if Haley's comet did this to the Shroud, then I would think other "shrouds" would be proof of this....seen any others? It should have been a commonality at that time!!
@@dinayando2849 So, only your version of Christianity is correct, everyone else is wrong, as well as Hindus, Buddhists and Muslims? All religions teach very much the same thing in terms of moral codes to live by. The problem comes from different groups interpretations of "their religion". If you actually believe that we are descendents of Adam and Eve then I think you and I may alwell be from different planets, and nothing anyone could show you from the records throughout history of the Christian faith would help you appreciate the real history of this planet and religion. I wish you all the best anyway
@@dinayando2849 Romans weren't necessarily roman catholic and even if they were, that religion, along with many other religions, has changed through the ages, proving that the bible quaran etc aren't the words of God, but an interpretation of a much older religion going way back in time which is communicated via stories and cave paintings before man could even write. Do you reject the theory of evolution and dinosaurs etc?
@@constancegoodwill2416 The primary effect of all kinds of radiation is to heat the material it hits. This statement includes electromagnetic radiation (visible, ultraviolet, and infrared radiation); ionizing particles such as protons, electrons, and alpha particles; and non-ionizing particles such as neutrons. You can feel the heat when you hold a lump of plutonium, a flask of tritium, or a recently irradiated accelerator target. Intense irradiation can cause enough heat to explode explosives and burn metals (think of laser effects). Cellulose molecules are folded back and forth in a fairly regular arrangement, and they show the properties of crystallinity. This is called a "fibrillar structure." When you rotate the stage of a petrographic microscope with crossed polarizers while looking at a linen fiber, straight lengths change from black through colored to black again every 90?. The fiber is birefringent and has an ordered structure. When cellulose fibers are heated enough to color them, whether by conduction, convection, or radiation of any kind, water is eliminated from the structure (the cellulose is "dehydrated"). When water is eliminated, C-OH chemical bonds are broken. The C? free radicals formed are extremely reactive, and they will combine with any material in their vicinity. In cellulose, other parts of the cellulose chains may be the closest reactants. The chains crosslink. Crosslinking changes the crystal structure of the cellulose, and you can see the effect with a polarizing microscope. When cellulose starts to scorch (dehydrate and crosslink), its characteristic crystal structure becomes progressively more chaotic. Its birefringence changes, and not all parts of a straight fiber go through clear transitions from dark to light at the same angle. Zones of order get smaller and smaller. It finally takes on the appearance of a pseudomorph and just scatters light. A significantly scorched fiber does not change color as the stage is rotated between crossed polarizers. Specific types of radiation cause specific types of defects in the crystals of flax fibers. For example, protons ionize the cellulose as they pass through the fiber. This warps the crystals, making the protons' paths birefringent. You can see where they went in the fiber by the straight lines of their paths (see the "Proton-irradiated" figure). Not all kinds of radiation ionize the material they penetrate. Neutrons and neutrinos do not have any electrical charge. Neutrinos hardly interact with matter at all, the fact that made them so difficult to detect. They have practically no chance of being stopped as they shoot through the entire diameter of the earth. The effects of neutrons depend on their energy, but they normally interact with hydrogen-containing materials to produce "recoil protons." They knock a hydrogen nucleus out of the material, producing an ionizing proton. You can see the ionization streaks of these (usually lower energy) protons (see the "Neutron-irradiation" figure). The crystal structure of the flax fibers of the Shroud shows the effects of aging, but it has never been heated enough to change the structure. It has never suffered chemically significant irradiation with either protons or neutrons. No type of radiation that could produce either color in the linen fibers or change the 14C content (radiocarbon age) could go unnoticed. All radiation has some kind of an effect on organic materials. This proves that the image color could not have been produced by thermal or radiation-induced dehydration of the cellulose. Image formation proceeded at normal temperatures in the absence of energetic radiation of any kind.
The man who left an imprint during hospice in England is based on gases leaving the body. Gases cannot by definition of their physical properties produce an image with 3-D relief or breaking down of carbon bonds on an object's surface. The image continues to hold many properties beyond "bodies produce weird images sometimes". That's a dangerous oversimplification.
highly charged particles with the absence of heat, and the blood matches the sadarium,What's dangerous is denying truth in front of your eyes because it conflicts with your beliefs and outlook on existence!!
A point to make also was the scientific community only really wanted one answer which was ' how was the image formed, by what scientific processes ' that is the only answer that they can't explain or understand. Without knowing how they theorize that a huge supernatural burst of energy, not too powerful to destroy and extremely thin to just leave a record of the man on the shroud not even a millimetre thick that shows the man that conforms exactly with the information given during the passion and indeed the resurrection to the smallest of details. Even the signs of Jonah ie the number 3 on his forehead and others I can't remember off the top of my head. It was predicted he would have these signs. The blood along with other Jesus relics has only got the mother's DNA and I bet you could reconstitute this dead blood into living blood in a lab by swirling it at body temperature and it would come back to life. If you test that living blood it would prove that Jesus had an earthly mother and no earthly Father even though it would have an XY chromosome. Scientists need to check
Actually the Shroud can be easily explain by the fact that a 21st century expert in anatomy, biochemistry, biology, 3D computer analysis, radiometric dating, photography, Zoology (plants and pollen indigenous to Palestine), History of 1st century Roman torture techniques and Crucifixions , Blood chemistry, access to laser and holographics and last but not least to have invented a *time machine*.
Or of course easily explained with all those experts and having exactly what it's meant to be the image being scorched onto the cloth at the moment of resurrection. A singularity of intense radiance and radiation
The cloth samples for the Carbon-14 test were taken from the bottom left corner, a section that had been repaired with a reweaving of threads from 14th century, and dyed cotton fibers to match the tone of the original linen cloth. This is why the C-14 test indicates a range of dates in the 14th century from the 3 labs testing - graduated mixtures of the newer fibers. This is established fact now, and anyone without this info about the samples will be gravely misinformed and persuaded to discard the authenticity of the other area on which the image resides. C-14 testing could have been done on the burned areas of cloth instead. Unfortunately, today, the cloth has been treated with an organic insecticide, which would skew the test results again. Hopefully, secret samples of the burned cloth is available somewhere, untainted by cleaning and insecticides. We certainly have newer results. The weight of all the other evidence suggests it is authentically a burial shroud from 1st century Jerusalem. It would have been considered taboo to touch such a shroud in the tomb with a rotting corpse inside. And, it would have rotted also in time. Just how is it that this cloth is spared from rot? Perhaps it only housed a body for 2 - 3 days? Discovered with no body inside? If the body were stolen, wouldn’t it be more convenient to keep the body in a cloth to carry it? Bottom line for me is that it is a radiograph (a kind of negative photograph), created by a flash of energy that changed the molecular structure and light absorption characteristics of just the top fibrils of threads in the image area. This is a miraculous method that could not have been utilized by humans of either 1st or 14th century - no technology existed to create this method.
Can anyone else see the obvious? Christ is the light and only a radiant light emitted from his body during his resurrection could have created this image. He is the divine, the one and only son of god.
I have read Thomas' book, and if you ignore his explanations, it provides a good account of the facts pertaining to the physcial properties of the Shroud. However, he places his faith in the vapour theory for the creation of the image, and although this theory is promoted by those who do not believe in the resurrection (e.g. Barrie Schwortz and Raymond Rogers), it has little to no scientific support as vapours could never provide the detail seen in the image nor its 3D properties. And although Thomas has made a good effort to describe the physical properties of the Shroud, he chooses to think of the gospel accounts as rewrites of historical events that make Jesus appear as if he were the Messiah. In this regards, he retells history in the same way Picknett and Prince do with their proposal that da Vinci made a perfect image of a crucified man using crude photography. It makes for fascinating reading, but it is really historical fiction rather than fact. Like Paul on the road to Damascus, I wonder how Thomas will react if and when Jesus does show himself to him?
De Wesselow is half the way home . He still doesn't quite get there, but he probably will. Sorry if this seems patronizing or sarcastic, I mean it positively. Barrie Schwortz is closer. Perhaps because of his upbringing he isn't yet what's temed a "completed" Jew.He should be respected for his service to Christ via the Shroud. Achieving oneness from the Torah and the Christ of the Shroud is a bit like welding ( or soldering ). Once this is achieved, faith will never waver, for it has become rock solid knowledge. Good luck Barry ! May the adoration of Jesus Christ enter your heart and lead you to completeness. Amen.
His discussion of medieval art and how the Shroud stands unique and singular among artistic representations of Christ during the middle ages is spot on. His discussion of animism is also interesting. However he failed to mention how the Shroud itself could have inspired belief in the resurrection if the body was still in the tomb. Perhaps he expands on his theory in the book but belief in the resurrection was always based on the empty tomb...there was no body to be found. However, as it relates to the Shroud, it was the linen cloth lying on the stone sepulcher or slab in the back of the tomb that was the first piece of evidence Jesus had risen from the dead. Clearly the Shroud is involved but the missing body is the central message which became clear as Jesus made numerous post resurrection appearances over the course of 40 days.
It does not explain pauls conversion or the miracles the disciples were perdorming and Christ performing either. Nor does it explain how Christ could fulfill daniel 9, Isaiah 53 and the lives of the prophets. He recognizes that the shroud has nothing to do with art, at any period, but he does not want to accept miracles because of his marriage with materialism which is the dominant worldview among intellectuals due to it being the dominant belief of professors intellectuals get their worldview from.
I wish the speaker was an expert on Byzantine Icons.....Iconoclasts in the 7th & 8th Centuries were only defeated by references to the, "Image of Our Lord not made by Human hands"....I have the "Theology of the Icon" in 2 volumes by Leonid Ouspensky...tracing the origins of Christian image from earliest times. The chapter on Iconoclasm mentions the Shroud as the ancient Name Image not made by human hands. Too bad speaker does not know this. Also, Do you know about Eusebius Bishop of Caesarea in 326 AD He was in Jerusalem when the excavations uncovered the Tomb of the Holy Sepulchre...He described what he saw in his book, The Life of Constantine Book 3 Chapter 28, Eusebius wrote about the discovery of the Holy Sepulchre: "This also was accomplished without delay. But as soon as the original surface of the ground, beneath the covering of earth, appeared, immediately, and contrary to all expectation, the venerable and hollowed monument of our Saviour’s resurrection was discovered. Then indeed did this most holy cave present a faithful similitude of his return to life, in that, after lying buried in darkness, it again emerged to light, and afforded to all who came to witness the sight, a clear and visible proof of the wonders of which that spot had once been the scene, a testimony to the resurrection of the Saviour clearer than any voice could give." I wonder if there was a scorch mark on the wall similar to the Shroud of Turin...
Is it possible that what the disciples saw was a holographic projection of Jesús, projected in a very advanced way, from some alien ship in orbit around earth? Maybe the physical Jesús was in the satellite, and what the disciples saw was bent light.
Hello Russ, I really like the fact Mr. Wesselow titles his book....THE SIGN. All he has to do now is just add a few words to the title and he will have it spot on. THE SIGN OF JONAH. Matthew 12:38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." Jesus replied, “A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth The word Sign also means EVIDENCE. POINTER, MARKER, MANIFESTATION. So Jesus said he was going to leave EVIDENCE of his crucifixion, death and resurrection A pointer, a marker, a manifestation So where is the Sign of Jonah? Shroud of Turin... The Shroud is THE SIGN AND THE POINTER to the True Savior. Just as the Almighty God used to LINEN as the SIGN POINTING to the true savior when Jesus was born "This shall be a SIGN unto you....."you will find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothing" When Elijah put his mantle in the River Jordan it parted the waters. Spirit of God likes to use linen to work miracles with. When Elijah went into heaven his mantle fell of him and was left behind. Roman soldiers searched for him for 3 days. (note the 3 day connection to tie events together) Only his mantle was left behind Preceding event to what happens with Jesus He leaves his Mantle/Shroud behind and also went into Heaven But bottom line SHROUD IS THE SIGN OF JONAH. A mathematical certainty.
Check other videos on the subject. Your theory could be correct if you believe the conclusion of certain scientists that the image is: a hologram, generated by gamma radiation, by energy directed absolutely perpendicular to the cloth, only affects the tiniest surface strands of the linen fibres, is imposed over the blood stains, is a perfect anatomical image. These and other conclusions were drawn by a team of diverse scientists and subject matter experts such as this speaker. Finally, the allegation that it was a forgery because of the result of carbon dating was explained in another video (and the same video I’m listing these conclusions from) with another scientist with the admission that the sample of cloth taken was from the edge of the cloth in an area previously repaired in the medieval period which the shroud is said to have been forged in. It was an unfortunate oversight made because of concern for the integrity of the shroud and image that they used a sample from an ‘inconspicuous’ area. The sample material was cotton woven into the linen and of a weave totally unlike the herringbone weave of the linen. This multitude and so many more fascinating conclusions were discussed and explained in just one long video I watched on the subject. I hope your search leads you to it. Peace be with you.
@Commendatore Good day! Your comment is very brief, and I'm not certain how to interpret what you mean by what you wrote...let me try..."...the dead body made..." I guess you mean the image happened as a result of the body - it's decay, and blood loss. Yes, certain elements of the image on the shroud were created by these natural, physical effects, according to the research by the team of scientists. This is not controversial or contrary to what one would logically expect. If that's the limit of what Thomas is suggesting, then the other physical characteristics of the shroud do not go answered sufficiently. Other viewers' comments here are worth reading if we want to get a perspective on what people think Thomas is saying here. If I understand your comment to mean, 'The shroud was only created by natural causes', then I think this is incorrect. There seem to be some supernatural, or causes for which current science is unable to explain. The apparent burst of high energy, ionising radiation, that is believed to have created the holographic image, does not have an explanation in current science to explain how or why it happened. Science can answer the HOW, but not these seemingly more important questions. Finally, I should acknowledge I'm biased, as a Catholic, to believe the miracle of Jesus Christ's resurrection. This resurrection would be causal to the creation of the Shroud, but I've been a skeptic concerning the legitimacy of the Shroud. Given my recent discovery of this and similar videos available on RUclips, I'm moved to believe in the miracle of the Shroud being created by natural and supernatural causes. I hope this commentary has answered your reply sufficiently. Peace be with you!
Short version: Jesus' disciples saw the image on his burial cloth, and being animists, thought that the image itself was the resurrected Jesus. Why, oh, why did I watch this video?
Thomas... FYI Jesus appeared to, spoke with and ate with his followers after his resurrection. He was around for forty days. They didn't need a faint image on a linen cloth.. they had the risen Jesus right in front of them.
But this shroud is heaven sent to those of us believers 2000 years into t he future who need 1 faint item to hold onto.this shroud solidifies our faith.Jesus lives my friends aswe do now....He has Risen
The most amazing Christmas “light” of them all! This time of year we see a variety of lights to inspire and lift our spirits. But there is one light that is the reason for Christmas that has defied explanation despite 1000s of hours study using the very latest technology and research. It is a “light” that has been likened to the image left behind on walls in Hiroshima after the atomic blast. Based on 1988 radiometric dating, It was once thought to be a medieval replica of the original. This was until they realized that the specimens taken to carbon date it, were from a corner of the cloth that was repaired with cotton after a 14th century fire. A theory 1st scoffed at by Ray Rogers, the forensic chemist who lead the original 1978 STRY team, who now concedes his original '78 specimen does indeed contain extraneous cotton weaving. If the Shroud of Turin is a forgery of the 14th century, as some sceptics still claim, and not a genuine artefact of the 1st century, all of these qualities of the purported medieval "forgerer" must be accepted. If the Shroud was "forged" it would have to have been painted. It is an irrefutable fact that there is NO paint, pigment, fibre cementing or dusting on the Shroud of Turin leaving the only explanation of the technique of the forger to have used "photography" to manufacture the relic in the THIRTEENTH CENTURY!! Some authors have gone so far as to suggest exactly that. Whether a relic or a replica it is an amazing, inspirational piece of cloth that defies explanation! Nevertheless one’s faith and thus the existence of God doesnt rise or fall on the authenticity or otherwise of one religious artifact. On the other hand, one can well understand why staunch deniers and cynics dread that it is GENUINE. For they might just have to listen to what Jesus had to say. Below is a link to one brief example of many more extensive videos on the most studied artefact in human history. John 8:12 God's blessings this Christmas!!
So he thinks the disciples of Jesus seen a piece of cloth with his faint image in it and from this concluded he had come into the room over a period of weeks and ate food with them then they thought because they seen the image in the cloth that that meant Thomas must have come and put his finger into the wound on Jesus's side and Jesus must have ate fish with them and that Jesus was talking with them and even got a bunch of teachings and new quotes from him then they thought they seen him rise up into the sky in front of 500 people. If you were them and believed in following Jesus like they did which would be more likely to give you the belief that he rose from the dead so strongly that you die a torturous death for that belief you finding his image on cloth after he died? or you being convinced you seen all the above happen? Oh and by the way it was illegal in ancient Jerusalem to take the cloth outside of the tomb so they wouldn't have come running out with it claiming he had risen also the shroud isn't mentioned anywhere in the gospels and they would have been accused of creating the shroud by the authority's and no they would NOT have thought the shroud was a living being because the disciples were not as dumb as this guy is. "According to ancient Egyptian believe you are looking at a resurrected body" It turns out the disciples of Jesus weren't actually ancient Egyptian's, I know right, who knew?. If we can bring people from another time, place & culture into it like that and claim because they believed this then the disciples must also have then I would like to conclude because according to modern western believe that we aren't looking at a resurrected body then that means the disciples must also have shared this attitude see doesn't make a lot of sense does it?. This is just an atrocious presentation it's such a stupid theory and so insane it made my head hurt I can not believe how far people will go sometimes, a laughable idea.
forger was some genius with technology of 35th century i guess, he created light of zillion watts of energy but without heat...because that amount of light energy you need to create this image on a cloth creats that amount of heat, that heat would destroy cloth ofcourse....this was the light without so much heat to destroy cloth...everyone who sais that he believes in science should believe in Jesus ressurection if he studies this cloth
The most important fact to realize about the Turin Shroud is that it is not the work of a medieval artist or artisan. This is pretty clear from the STURP team's reported conclusions. The jury is still out on the actual image formation process ( ie whether it was the result of a sudden burst of radiation, or a slower process ( taking no more than 36 hours or so ), but in a sense this is less important. If the Shroud is genuine, and therefore more than 2000 years old, this is enough of a miracle. The fact that it is fully consonant with the reports of his torment and crucifixion in the gospels, and even includes previously undocumented information ( such as the nails being in the wrists ), is utteryl astonishing, and supports the reports of the many miracles he performed in his lifetime.
The blood from the Shroud only contained 23 + 1? (Holy Spirit perhaps) chromosomes a normal human has 46, because you are born with 2 parents... Mary was a virgin who could only give her son 23 chromosomes by way of the Holy Spirit. Seems the NT Bible has truth to it after all.
@@thevulture5750 Do we agreed faith is belief without argument and/or evidence? I place no faith on anything. I require knowledge. We do not know yet how the universe started. You have set up a fallacy of false dichotomy between a nothing caused universe and an alleged divine entity. You may want to take a course in logic and critical thinking. Our species is endowed by nature with a strong desire to survive. Some folks accept their self-evident mortality. Others invent deities that promise eternal life. Your secret desire I surmise is merely an irrational ego projection to cope with your mortality anxiety. The Shroud has been Carbon 14 dated by 3 labs to the 1300s AD. The Shroud has a thousand year gap in provenance. Give it up.
@@thevulture5750 Your new missive confirms, with ample evidence, your urgent need for logical education. One point: There is no dichotomy in stating that as of now we have insufficient evidence to certainly state the origin of the universe. "People would rather die than think." - Bertrand Russell.
@@thevulture5750 It is logically incoherent and verification bereift. It all starts with an old Sumerian fale about a bare naked lady taking dietary advice from a chatty snake. This leads to dubious dictations by desert Bronze Age warlords in copies of copies of copies of copies from lost manuscripts written by unknown authors, in Greek. I actually admire a few things about JC. I call myself a Jesusian. I just reject the absurd claims of divinity ascribed by his '"followers." I also like parts of Buddhism and Jainism. Do really believe snakes can talk?
Chain of custody: The Shroud mysteriously appears in France in the mid-14 century. Where had it been for 1350 years and why wouldn't it be the most revered artifact in Christianity for all those centuries?
I'm pretty sure after seeing him walk on water and raise the dead only seeing his image on some cloth would be a big letdown like you would have expected something cooler from that guy so i'm not convinced they would have been so excited.
The most accurate and possible explanation for the image in the shroud is radiation. A test was conducted by the University of Padua using lazer and ultraviolet. The question will be. How in the world radiation make the image in during that time???
“ 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. 17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead.” Revelation 1 - John’s vision of Jesus
I read a book by Thomas de Wesselow on the Shroud of Turin. It was very well researched and presented abundant evidence of the authenticity of the Shroud, and refuted many contentions of those who claim it is not authentic. The books was actually a phenomenal compendium of information. However, at the end of the book de Wesselow presented his interpretation of the Shroud, and that is an interpretation I disagree with. He presented his view that the Shroud IS the resurrected Jesus. That is his interpretation of the Shroud with which I disagree. In this video, he touches on some of such things and presents some of his bases for reaching such interpretation.
So, if I understand this correctly the disciples of Jesus went to the tomb, found no body, but found the shroud with the image, and because images capture the spirit they believed Jesus was risen…..and then they poked their hands into the wounds (of the shroud), spoke with the shroud, broke bread and ate fish with the shroud, and watched the shroud ascend into heaven?
Thats of course nonsense, but he has one very good valid point = if the apostels / Paul has had this shroud in posession, it would explain much better, why pagans around the Meditteranian have found faith at all, even the idea of physical resurrection was so foreign to them!!! And I have seen just now on a other christian shroud channel that there are hidden clues in the new testamend letters / Acts who speak of the shroud and Pauls comanions that they have traveled with it...
The gospels recount that Jesus APPEARED to the desciples. That's why they believed in the resurrection. How does he skip over that fact? His whole premise is rediculous.
I found this argument a bit lacking. Does anyone really think that our ancestors did not recognize their reflections in water. Add to that Egyptians had bronze mirrors, and that an image would be taken as a resurrection is Ludacris.
If the shroud was authentic people would worship GOD would not permit that. John 4:24 “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
The ancients may have been animistic... BUT they were not STUPID! They found the grave cloths without the body of Christ, laying there still wrapped as if containing a body. Upon hearing that Jesus was raised from the dead from two woman followers, Peter and the other Apostle ran to the empty tomb and right then and there believed, just by seeing the empty grave cloths, the shroud and laying by itself, the face cloth. WITH NO BODY PRESENT WITHIN THE GRAVE CLOTH ! (Luke 24:12) Where did Jesus's body go then? Jesus either rose from the dead or someone stole the body leaving the grave shroud with an image of Jesus on it. A image on an ancient shroud unlike any ever seen then or even today. And a faint image of a hand on a cloth from a dying person that Thomas de Wesselow shows as proof that a body, or part of a body can be seen on cloths, with scientific scrutiny will not match or even come close to the properties of the Shroud of Turin. The bottom line are these three points: Is it the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.. YES. All evidence, scientific and historic analysis points to that. And the other two points... Did he rise from the dead as he claimed he would? Or did he die as a mere mortal, his body stolen to hide the fact that he did not rise from the dead? These two last points are the real crux of the question. And to give an answer to one or the other is an act of faith. As a Christian, I have the answer to one of these two last points.
There's just one major flaw with this guy's hypothesis the church itself in 1357 was pissed off to all hell about people upholding this piece of cloth is being an authentic artifact and here's why. Before the church was built before he was finished I can't remember the year I think it was 1338 they were ordered to take a inventory of all the relics belonging to that church churches were allotted relics to display and they had to take a careful inventory of them well the shroud of Turin was not mentioned in any of the historic documents it simply appeared it's sometime in the 1350s and immediately went on tour making money for the church. The bishops in France got angry about this because they knew it was a forgery due to its size and the fact that it just materialized out of nowhere with no history attributed to it. You see the shroud of Turin should have been about one and a half feet square not 14 ft long! In John The book of John he goes into great detail about how the body of Christ was wrapped over and over and over with different things and packed with materials and then a small piece of cloth was draped over his face. The process was meticulously recorded by John. So it doesn't fit any narrative whatsoever and the church itself knew it was a fake artifact that people were using to trying to make money it was debunked in the 1300s for God's sake!!!! The shroud of Turin was a fake there's no ifs and butts or debates about it it was fake.
You would believe anything, except the science, right? It was not debunked. There were no bishops [plural]. There is not great detail in John. Smoke less.
Surely this guy knows who the reknowned artist and particle physicist Isobel Piczek is and has read or heard her expert analysis and scientific explanation of how the 3D image on the shroud was made! The radiation from the resurrection itself is the only explaination for the image. There's a video "Event horizon Dame Isobel Piczek". She gives the most simplistic, logical, perfectly beautiful expert opinion I've ever heard. She's by far more knowledgable of art and of the shroud than Thomas plus she's a respected scientist too. Thus her expertise on this subject is far more valueable than his. This guy doesnt even address how the disciples opened the tomb with a stone they couldnt possible move or how they would've even been looking at an image of Jesus on the shroud if he didn't resurrect... I mean he's suggesting they unwrapped the body and stole his burial clothe disrespecting their Lords body that they took such care in wrapping and that is ridiculous.
He almost got it right. Its the shroud, WITHOUT THE PRESENCE OF A BODY, that started Christianity. The Apostles died brutal deaths telling the Truth about seeing Jesus alive after death. There is no other image like the shroud anywhere on earth. Any attemps to replicate it can never replicate the 3D imaging and double negative information thats found inside the shroud.
It would have been better if the historian had read from a script at a podium. It's irritating when he says negative then positive, right then left. I'm not surprised at academics being 'brilliant' and then being useless when it comes to seemingly simple things.
Do yourself a favour and read the Bible. Mary, a woman, saw the Risen Christ first outside in the garden, Doubting Thomas did not believe the disciples had seen the risen Christ until he had put his fingers into Jesus's wounds, the risen Jesus ate and drank, appeared to hundreds, and he met the disciples by the sea of Galilee cooking for them on the beach ... and Jesus was seen being taken back to heaven the mountain... after asking Peter ... do you love me ... 3 times ... and telling Peter his ministry... then there is Saul who encountered the risen Messiah on the road to Damascus ... Saul was a murderer of Christians... hated them, was a Rabbi and Roman citizen ... his encounter with Jesus changed him to be the greatest advocate for Christ .. he became Paul .. he went back to visit the Sanhedrin and Roman's telling them that Jesus is God ... eventually he was executed by the Romans .... the Disciples ran away when Jesus was brutally murdered... they were not so naive or stupid to look at a cloth and think it was Jesus whom they walked with for 3 years ... all of them ... came back and preached that Jesus is who he said he was ... read Isaiah 53 ... fortelling Jesus several hundred years before his coming... also check out the science of the image ... the image was made after death .. and the energy came from the body .. What made the disciples return to preach the Gospel facing persecution.... crucifixion, torture.. I would say that they met the risen Christ ... to be that brave... Jesus is like marmite ... love him or hate him ... but His message will outlast the vanity of humanity. .. people in the first century .. especially Hebrews where very careful not to worship idols ... some of the greatest theologians and philosophers came from Hebrew scholars ...
Hmm what about the crowd of 500 people that Jesus appeared to after his crucifixion? Lets not even start with 'hallucinations' , did they all just see this shroud as well? How did this shroud talk to all 500 people? So many other things in the presentation that are a little shaky.
People who suddenly develop an interest in the Shroud because they are drawn to it by either their curiosity or sense of novelty can no more solve it's mystery than if a person were able to compose music like Beethoven jyst because they too are drawn to it by their own curiosity. The person who solves the mystery is one who is fated to do it, by GOD or nature and does so without self serving desires or ego
Shroud of Turin is THe SIGN like the title of Mr. Wesslow's book.... But he missed 2 more words. OF JONAH. Shroud is THE SIGN OF JONAH. It is that simple. Mystery solved. ruclips.net/video/u7MPMG8p9Q8/видео.html
Who are you kidding? The more humans "solve" this mystery, the more they realize but it's a photograph of the Resurrection, and only God could have done it.
He’s really grasping at straws. If he understood multiple advanced fields of science (I do) he would know the shroud is authentic. I studied particle physics in 9th grade. I understand many fields of science. The shroud cannot be explained. It’s impossible. It’s time science considered the impossible.
If the shroud is the source of christianity why is there no mention of the image in the gospels ? Also there is no mention that scientists haven't come up with a natural explanation of the image. The theory doesn't make sense of the evidence.
You may ignore everything, but you cannot ignore the fact that the death and resurrection of Christ was foretold in the Hebrew bible centuries before him. Every detail from his town to the way he shall die to who shall kill him. It’s beyond us, this guys here says that the disciples took the image of Jesus and believed to be his resurrection well that’s not possible, because first the disciples heavily doubt Jesus after his death and were ready to leave all the mess and go back to their regular lives but the stuck to the promise Jesus gave them that he would be resurrected on the third day as it was foretold and he did and yet a guy named Thomas the apostle of Christ doubted saying I would like to see him and touch his wounds and poke my finger in the nail piercing and then I will believe they certainly weren’t delusional. 2nd all the life and death of Christ as I said was foretold and was the part of the Jewish belief so they certainly wouldn’t worship an image of a man and perceive it as resurrection, and Jesus said I will be resurrection in flesh as you see me now you shall see me the same way on the 3rd day. So this man here need to go do his research again, why call such folks to speak who clearly have bare minimum knowledge about the topic I don’t get it.
It Scares the Shit out of sinners to give God much thought , that's their worse nightmare , deny at all cost. How can they continue Sinning is they suddenly get a Guilty Complex. You have to be Blind , deaf and Dumb if you cannot accept Jesus is real , just watch a few days worth of near death experiences. But being a Terrible sinner myself it scares me to death , because i know i deserve Hell if i was 100% Honest , so i do doubt about which one i will go too. We do reap what we Sow. However i will never renounce Jesus , there is no going back once you know the Truth.
@@hxhdfjifzirstc894 There was something about the linen cloth that the disciple saw and caused him to believe. John 20:3-9 "So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen. Finally, the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed."
Any Christian student of the Bible knows there's many scriptures that forbid false teachings but just look at God's 2nd commandment which has been removed from the RCC bibles: "You shall not make you any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, or that's in the waters beneath the earth: You shall not bow down yourself before them nor serve them: for I the LORD your God am a posessive God.." After commanding man never to make any idol, graven image, likeness of anything to be prayed to, idolized, worshiped, bowed down to, he would never, ever contradict himself by making an image of himself. Why do u people believe man over the word of our Creator? Is God a liar? or is man?,
Interesting argument, very scientific. Even explaining the image of the man in the bed. Some coincidences cannot be easily explained. Sadly being a thing of faith - for me - there is more than that coincidence. Your science is interesting and my faith equals some type of ignorance. Thanks Mr de Wesslow for this talk.
Rather disappointing talk by Thomas Wesselow, bordering on the stupid! He seems to be under the delusion that there are only two possibilities to understand the image on the shroud: 1) it is a medieval painting (which he correctly shows is unlikely). Or 2) It is genuine, implying a miraculous image.. The problem is that it could be neither, yet STILL be a forgery! The fact that we can't yet establish how the image appeared does not lead us to conclude that it must be either a brush-stroke painting or be genuine. If we can establish that it is not a painting, we cannot then conclude that therefore it is miraculous. We just don't yet understand the technique used to produce the image. The fact that the negative photograph suggests a 3-D image does not prove it is miraculous (on the basis that forgers from the Middle Ages couldn't have appreciated a 3-D image), because the 3-D image may just be coincidental to the technique used to create it. So, the 3-D image on the negative provides no proof that the image is genuine and miraculous. So, we need to investigate how the image could have appeared through a natural process that was not dependent on conventional painting techniques. It could be a medieval work of art, but created by non-conventional techniques. A miraculous explanation is less likely than a natural one. See also: rationalwiki.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin
Paul Sandberg Only the fact that no one today, in our supposedly advanced civilization, can answer the question you posed- is a miracle in itself, don't you think? Don't super- complicate stuff. Just believe!
Mike, did you even bother to read the link I provided? There are other reasonable hypotheses as to how the image was created. Just because we are not sure does not imply therefore God must have done it! In the absence of causal evidence, a natural cause is more probable by far than a miraculous one. "Just believe" is a claim made by all religions, but you only use it to support your religion.
Mike, in particular, from the link I supplied (under "Theories"): "The techniques required to create primitive photographs had been available since the 11th century in the book of optics, by Ibn al-Haytham, or Alhazen, as he was known in the west. The silver sulphate acted as a negative which propagated an image onto the cloth when exposed by light through the lens. Silver sulphate and the camera obscura technique were known in the 15th century." That is a plausible scientific hypothesis for the creation of the image - no miracle required! "
Paul Sandberg I opened the link. But, got bored. But, Ok. Just for discussion sake, let's say it's a work of an artist, a wizard or whatever. For what purpose? To elevate Christ even more, without making oneself known? I say, that's a great fairy- tale. He could've become the greatest artist of all time, yet, chose obscurity and left us with an unsolvable riddle instead? If we go that speculative road- instead of the road well trodden, where millions of people, who couldn't even see the figure as clearly as we do today, wholeheartedly believed was the burial cloth of Christ- it's going be a religion all by itself. The odds- that the figure seen on the cloth, is NOT a miraculous imprint left for us, as a witness for the Ressurection of Christ, considering all the circumstantial evidence- are in the millions to 1. A very powerful force of radiation, measured in nano- seconds, created that image. And it came, indisputably, from within the cloth- not externally.
Hi Mike Morduk, I think your reply lacks common sense. You ask: "let's say it's a work of an artist, a wizard or whatever. For what purpose? To elevate Christ even more, without making oneself known?" The answer to that silly question is that we are probably dealing with a FORGERY! No self-respecting artist wants to be labelled a forger, and the penalty would be a prison sentence, if proven. There were many religious forgeries doing the rounds in those medieval times, and this one was a major suspect (check out the history of the Turin shroud. Bishop Pierre d'Arcis wrote to Clement VII that the shroud was a forgery and that the artist had confessed, although we don't know more details). Furthermore, there is no record of the Shroud before the 14th century, which raises grounds for doubt about its authenticity. Its origins have never been clarified. The artist - whoever he was - wanted to create a technique which would pass all tests for forgery, and have the credibility of his creation unassailable, and hence be of great value. A recognised forgery has no value. Using ordinary, conventional painting techniques, the Shroud would quickly be identified as a fraud and have no value. You claim that the odds of the Shroud being a forgery are in the millions to 1. But how do you arrive at that figure? What is your evidence for evaluating it so?! Modern forensic techniques established it to be a fraud in 1988, but I accept that the radiocarbon dating applied is controversial. The Vatican has not proclaimed its authenticity, but remains ambivalent. Even they don't claim (as you do) to know! You say you opened the link "but got bored". This indicates that either you have a very poor attention span or you are not interested in Truth. You want to follow your own agenda, which is one of opinion and credulousness (without evidence). As for me, i seek the Truth.
This art historian is missing the best fact about the shroud and over simplifying the explanation for the belief in resurrection. Not only has he missed the obvious point that Jesus is not in the tomb but the image is a 3D image that has 3D information in it that could have only been produced by the dead body of christ almost exploding with energy and radiation and releasing a singularity of radiation that scorches the image of his body, combined with the material that touched the surface of the cloth like blood and sweat etc.. The image was made at the exact point of Jesus's resurrection when his body transformed with a release of great energy and light. Unbelievably it's the exact moment of resurrection. Nothing else exists like this on the entire planet and nobody can recreate it's image with any kind of success. I'm truly convinced that this is exactly what it says it is and happened in the way that the bible describes. Prays God
The shroud has been proven not to be authentic. "You can convince a believer of anything, for their belief is not based on evidence, it is based on a deep seated need to believe." Carl Sagan
@Allan BishopPerhaps not a deranged forger, but an intelligent one with intended purposes. Three samples were taken, not one, and they each came to the same conclusion, 14th Century fabric. The samples indicated pollen from a handful of countries, including Africa, so that's all it proves.
@Jerry Poplin Not true that a hundred or so scientists have proven it to be the actual burial cloth of Jesus Christ. Name two scientists or PHD's who are not theologians asserting that the shroud dates to the First Century. I couldn't find Dr. Ray Rogers, the scientist on a Google search, so apparently he's someone's fabrication.
@@bisbeekid Not correct, one awful corner sample was taken which was cut into several pieces. None of the protocols were followed which alone should have invalidated the result.
DAVID YALL ARE STILL TELLING THESE LIE'S! BECAUSE OF MONEY OR TRYING TO BE FAMOUS! I KNOW IT'S FAKE YALL ARE GOING TO FOOL PEOPLE! BUT IT'S A BIG FAT LIE!🙂
God does not dwell or talk out of crosses but demons do. Catholic crosses are their idols and many will be in hell for idolatry and Goddess worship. NO, early Christians did not worship the shroud as a double for Jesus. Please repent and turn to Jesus Christ cause he is the only one who can save you no religion can do that. Acts 7:48King James Version (KJV) 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Carlos Velasco he’s right about Catholicism though , my whole family is catholic , they praise Mary as if she were a Goddess , there’s 10 Hail Marys for every 1 Our Father , I’d say that is idolatry :/
1) The red covering of the linen threads is blood identified of human kind of AB group. This is confirmed by various specific analyses. 2) The red covering contains human male DNA. They found a modest quantity of female DNA due to a contamination during the TS restoration, but the presence of male DNA is more remarkable. 3) The high quantity of bilirubin they found is sign of a person heavy traumatized before his death. Indeed, the bright red of the bloodstains is caused by the presence of a high quantity of bilirubin. 4) In numerous flows the coagulation phases of blood are evident. One observes the clot formation and its retraction with crust and serous exudate formation. 5) It wrapped a wounded man: around the bloodstains there are halos of serum, invisible with the naked eye. Ultraviolet fluorescence photographs, unknown in the Middle Ages, confirm this. Therefore it is not likely the hypothesis that the MTS remained inside the sepulchre in state of coma. From the thoracic wound, the serum too dropped besides the blood. It is possible to realize such halos only through contact with hematic clots. The blood, coagulated on the wounded skin, transferred on the cloth through fibrinoulisis, that during the first 36 hours causes a remelting of the blood. 6) It wrapped a corpse: the stains of living and post-mortal blood are perfectly transferred. They are due to a direct contact with the wounds of a human body. In the ultraviolet fluorescence photographs one can distinguish even the slightest signs of flagrum. 7) On the Face image the blood perspiration is evident. The computerized image analysis shows a probable hematohydrosis on the whole Face. 8) The MTS shows the effects of a still and naked scourging by two executioners. One can count in UV light the lacerated and contused wounds11, 120 radially arranged strokes, caused by a Roman flagrum, with two different sources. Lesions on the gluteals don’t lack. The scourging didn’t happen during the transport of the cross. 9) It provides till now inedited details of Christ Passion: the at least 50 imprints in correspondence of the head, caused by sharp objects, correspond to the effects of a helmet of thorns. Therefore it was not the circle of thorns of the Western tradition. The helmet of thorns is conformable to the Eastern royal crowns. It was not usual in the Roman crucifixions to crown with thorns the head of the condemned. 10) It is not a medieval painting: the imprints point out the difference between arterial and venous blood discovered in 1593. One can clearly distinguish hemorrhages of living blood from post-mortal extravasations, hemorrhages of arterial, venous, mixed or hypostatic blood. 11) It wrapped a man who was hanged to a cross since the hematic flows respect the law of gravity, (discovered in 1666) and the position of the crucified Man. For instance one considers the blood flow on the right forehead-temporal area that came out from an artery, it flew down long the hair frame, and the flows coming out of the wrists. 12) The body was wrapped in the sheet not over two hours and a half after the death. Until little before the death the blood flew from the wounds. The blood came out after death from the holes in the feet and in the wrists during the unnailing and from the side wound also during the deposition. 13) The sheet “became empty”. The contact between body and sheet interrupted without altering the blood transfers remained extremely clear. An hypothesis to explain this phenomenon could be the crossing of the body become “mechanically transparent with respect to the sheet, during the resurrection” 14) If the blood transfer was obtained in the Middle Ages by a clever forger-murder who tortured until death a man to reproduce the same wounds caused by the executioners to Jesus. It is not easy to reproduce in the least details all the signs of the Passion and certain particulars of the Roman crucifixion were unknown in the Middle Ages. It is not easy to wound at the side the dead victim and let coming out from it blood and serum separated. This affirmation doesn’t explain how one obtained the body image.
The most important fact to realize about the Turin Shroud is that it is not the work of a medieval artist or artisan. This is pretty clear from the STURP team's reported conclusions. The jury is still out on the actual image formation process ( ie whether it was the result of a sudden burst of radiation, or a slower process ( taking no more than 36 hours or so ), but in a sense this is less important. If the Shroud is genuine, and therefore more than 2000 years old, this is enough of a miracle. The fact that it is fully consonant with the reports of his torment and crucifixion in the gospels, and even includes previously undocumented information ( such as the nails being in the wrists ), is uterl astonishing, and supports the reports of the many miracles he performed in his lifetime.
The most important fact to realize about the Turin Shroud is that it is not the work of a medieval artist or artisan. This is pretty clear from the STURP team's reported conclusions. The jury is still out on the actual image formation process ( ie whether it was the result of a sudden burst of radiation, or a slower process ( taking no more than 36 hours or so ), but in a sense this is less important. If the Shroud is genuine, and therefore more than 2000 years old, this is enough of a miracle. The fact that it is fully consonant with the reports of his torment and crucifixion in the gospels, and even includes previously undocumented information ( such as the nails being in the wrists ), is uterl astonishing, and supports the reports of the many miracles he performed in his lifetime .
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The Shroud is the most analyzed article in antiquity. It has been studied and tested by thousands of scientists. It is unique. Nothing has been found like it, and it can not be reproduced. Basically, it should not exist. The scientists can not explain it. It is an amazing piece of cloth, and it’s history is even more amazing. That piece of cloth has been through a lot in the past 2,000 years.
With all of the technology today, it has been stated that the shroud could not be duplicated...I'm thinking that Faith of course is great, but the miracles of God are unprecedented!
That's not true. We know radiation could make such an image. In fact at the time the shroud was made Haleys comet was passing close to earth (higher levels of radiation) and could have caused it. Haleys comet is most likely the star of bethlehem in the Christian religion. I really don't mean to offend you, I respect your Christian beliefs, but the bible isn't a diary, it's a story to explain to the masses how the world became and very good principles to live by. It's actually based on previous egyptian religions which were taken over and adapted by the Romans.
@@constancegoodwill2416 Don't mean to offend you either Constance but the Bible isn't just a "story" and true Christianity isn't based off of past Egyptian religions who had different "gods'" to explain their lives. The Romans don't even have true "Christianity" as Roman Catholicism is filled with their many traditions that they somehow "fit" into their beliefs. Christianity is not a religion...it is the birth, life, death and resurrection of our Savior Jesus Christ. True belief in Him leads to the Father and eternal life. You should try reading it sometime as it is the most read book in the history of mankind. And if Haley's comet did this to the Shroud, then I would think other "shrouds" would be proof of this....seen any others? It should have been a commonality at that time!!
@@dinayando2849 So, only your version of Christianity is correct, everyone else is wrong, as well as Hindus, Buddhists and Muslims? All religions teach very much the same thing in terms of moral codes to live by. The problem comes from different groups interpretations of "their religion". If you actually believe that we are descendents of Adam and Eve then I think you and I may alwell be from different planets, and nothing anyone could show you from the records throughout history of the Christian faith would help you appreciate the real history of this planet and religion. I wish you all the best anyway
@@dinayando2849 Romans weren't necessarily roman catholic and even if they were, that religion, along with many other religions, has changed through the ages, proving that the bible quaran etc aren't the words of God, but an interpretation of a much older religion going way back in time which is communicated via stories and cave paintings before man could even write. Do you reject the theory of evolution and dinosaurs etc?
@@constancegoodwill2416 The primary effect of all kinds of radiation is to heat the material it hits. This statement includes electromagnetic radiation (visible, ultraviolet, and infrared radiation); ionizing particles such as protons, electrons, and alpha particles; and non-ionizing particles such as neutrons. You can feel the heat when you hold a lump of plutonium, a flask of tritium, or a recently irradiated accelerator target. Intense irradiation can cause enough heat to explode explosives and burn metals (think of laser effects).
Cellulose molecules are folded back and forth in a fairly regular arrangement, and they show the properties of crystallinity. This is called a "fibrillar structure." When you rotate the stage of a petrographic microscope with crossed polarizers while looking at a linen fiber, straight lengths change from black through colored to black again every 90?. The fiber is birefringent and has an ordered structure.
When cellulose fibers are heated enough to color them, whether by conduction, convection, or radiation of any kind, water is eliminated from the structure (the cellulose is "dehydrated"). When water is eliminated, C-OH chemical bonds are broken. The C? free radicals formed are extremely reactive, and they will combine with any material in their vicinity. In cellulose, other parts of the cellulose chains may be the closest reactants. The chains crosslink. Crosslinking changes the crystal structure of the cellulose, and you can see the effect with a polarizing microscope.
When cellulose starts to scorch (dehydrate and crosslink), its characteristic crystal structure becomes progressively more chaotic. Its birefringence changes, and not all parts of a straight fiber go through clear transitions from dark to light at the same angle. Zones of order get smaller and smaller. It finally takes on the appearance of a pseudomorph and just scatters light. A significantly scorched fiber does not change color as the stage is rotated between crossed polarizers.
Specific types of radiation cause specific types of defects in the crystals of flax fibers. For example, protons ionize the cellulose as they pass through the fiber. This warps the crystals, making the protons' paths birefringent. You can see where they went in the fiber by the straight lines of their paths (see the "Proton-irradiated" figure).
Not all kinds of radiation ionize the material they penetrate. Neutrons and neutrinos do not have any electrical charge. Neutrinos hardly interact with matter at all, the fact that made them so difficult to detect. They have practically no chance of being stopped as they shoot through the entire diameter of the earth. The effects of neutrons depend on their energy, but they normally interact with hydrogen-containing materials to produce "recoil protons." They knock a hydrogen nucleus out of the material, producing an ionizing proton. You can see the ionization streaks of these (usually lower energy) protons (see the "Neutron-irradiation" figure).
The crystal structure of the flax fibers of the Shroud shows the effects of aging, but it has never been heated enough to change the structure. It has never suffered chemically significant irradiation with either protons or neutrons. No type of radiation that could produce either color in the linen fibers or change the 14C content (radiocarbon age) could go unnoticed. All radiation has some kind of an effect on organic materials.
This proves that the image color could not have been produced by thermal or radiation-induced dehydration of the cellulose. Image formation proceeded at normal temperatures in the absence of energetic radiation of any kind.
The man who left an imprint during hospice in England is based on gases leaving the body. Gases cannot by definition of their physical properties produce an image with 3-D relief or breaking down of carbon bonds on an object's surface. The image continues to hold many properties beyond "bodies produce weird images sometimes". That's a dangerous oversimplification.
highly charged particles with the absence of heat, and the blood matches the sadarium,What's dangerous is denying truth in front of your eyes because it conflicts with your beliefs and outlook on existence!!
they have hundreds of used burial clothes but only one contains an image,1500 years of research and cannot recreate it
The speaker is quite disingenuous, by ignoring known facts... I suspect he's merely selling a book.
@@adamdouglas5596 why do you want modern technology to recreate the shroud. For what purpose??
A point to make also was the scientific community only really wanted one answer which was ' how was the image formed, by what scientific processes ' that is the only answer that they can't explain or understand. Without knowing how they theorize that a huge supernatural burst of energy, not too powerful to destroy and extremely thin to just leave a record of the man on the shroud not even a millimetre thick that shows the man that conforms exactly with the information given during the passion and indeed the resurrection to the smallest of details. Even the signs of Jonah ie the number 3 on his forehead and others I can't remember off the top of my head. It was predicted he would have these signs. The blood along with other Jesus relics has only got the mother's DNA and I bet you could reconstitute this dead blood into living blood in a lab by swirling it at body temperature and it would come back to life. If you test that living blood it would prove that Jesus had an earthly mother and no earthly Father even though it would have an XY chromosome. Scientists need to check
2 Timothy 3:7 “Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth”
Actually the Shroud can be easily explain by the fact that a 21st century expert in anatomy, biochemistry, biology, 3D computer analysis, radiometric dating, photography, Zoology (plants and pollen indigenous to Palestine), History of 1st century Roman torture techniques and Crucifixions , Blood chemistry, access to laser and holographics and last but not least to have invented a *time machine*.
Or of course easily explained with all those experts and having exactly what it's meant to be the image being scorched onto the cloth at the moment of resurrection. A singularity of intense radiance and radiation
@@jamesboxall4606 But thats what logic indicates, not the secular science...
The cloth samples for the Carbon-14 test were taken from the bottom left corner, a section that had been repaired with a reweaving of threads from 14th century, and dyed cotton fibers to match the tone of the original linen cloth. This is why the C-14 test indicates a range of dates in the 14th century from the 3 labs testing - graduated mixtures of the newer fibers. This is established fact now, and anyone without this info about the samples will be gravely misinformed and persuaded to discard the authenticity of the other area on which the image resides. C-14 testing could have been done on the burned areas of cloth instead. Unfortunately, today, the cloth has been treated with an organic insecticide, which would skew the test results again. Hopefully, secret samples of the burned cloth is available somewhere, untainted by cleaning and insecticides. We certainly have newer results.
The weight of all the other evidence suggests it is authentically a burial shroud from 1st century Jerusalem. It would have been considered taboo to touch such a shroud in the tomb with a rotting corpse inside. And, it would have rotted also in time. Just how is it that this cloth is spared from rot? Perhaps it only housed a body for 2 - 3 days? Discovered with no body inside? If the body were stolen, wouldn’t it be more convenient to keep the body in a cloth to carry it? Bottom line for me is that it is a radiograph (a kind of negative photograph), created by a flash of energy that changed the molecular structure and light absorption characteristics of just the top fibrils of threads in the image area. This is a miraculous method that could not have been utilized by humans of either 1st or 14th century - no technology existed to create this method.
They didn't invent it.they discovered it.
Can anyone else see the obvious? Christ is the light and only a radiant light emitted from his body during his resurrection could have created this image. He is the divine, the one and only son of god.
I have read Thomas' book, and if you ignore his explanations, it provides a good account of the facts pertaining to the physcial properties of the Shroud. However, he places his faith in the vapour theory for the creation of the image, and although this theory is promoted by those who do not believe in the resurrection (e.g. Barrie Schwortz and Raymond Rogers), it has little to no scientific support as vapours could never provide the detail seen in the image nor its 3D properties. And although Thomas has made a good effort to describe the physical properties of the Shroud, he chooses to think of the gospel accounts as rewrites of historical events that make Jesus appear as if he were the Messiah. In this regards, he retells history in the same way Picknett and Prince do with their proposal that da Vinci made a perfect image of a crucified man using crude photography. It makes for fascinating reading, but it is really historical fiction rather than fact. Like Paul on the road to Damascus, I wonder how Thomas will react if and when Jesus does show himself to him?
Doubting Thomas...
De Wesselow is half the way home . He still doesn't quite get there, but he probably will. Sorry if this seems patronizing or sarcastic, I mean it positively.
Barrie Schwortz is closer. Perhaps because of his upbringing he isn't yet what's temed a "completed" Jew.He should be respected for his service to Christ via the Shroud. Achieving oneness
from the Torah and the Christ of the Shroud is a bit like welding ( or soldering ). Once this is achieved, faith will never waver, for it has become rock solid knowledge. Good luck Barry ! May the adoration of Jesus Christ enter your heart and lead you to completeness. Amen.
The Leonardo "explanation" is complete garbage. Leonardo was born in 1452.The Shroud was exhibited in Lirey, France in the mid 1350's
@@paulmichelet3483 Not to mention the fact that Leonardo was actually a woefully bad inventor, as interesting as his enquiries were.
Here we have a true doubting Thomas.
Exactly what I said... His name Thomas says it All.☝️🤣
His discussion of medieval art and how the Shroud stands unique and singular among artistic representations of Christ during the middle ages is spot on. His discussion of animism is also interesting. However he failed to mention how the Shroud itself could have inspired belief in the resurrection if the body was still in the tomb. Perhaps he expands on his theory in the book but belief in the resurrection was always based on the empty tomb...there was no body to be found. However, as it relates to the Shroud, it was the linen cloth lying on the stone sepulcher or slab in the back of the tomb that was the first piece of evidence Jesus had risen from the dead. Clearly the Shroud is involved but the missing body is the central message which became clear as Jesus made numerous post resurrection appearances over the course of 40 days.
It does not explain pauls conversion or the miracles the disciples were perdorming and Christ performing either. Nor does it explain how Christ could fulfill daniel 9, Isaiah 53 and the lives of the prophets. He recognizes that the shroud has nothing to do with art, at any period, but he does not want to accept miracles because of his marriage with materialism which is the dominant worldview among intellectuals due to it being the dominant belief of professors intellectuals get their worldview from.
I wish the speaker was an expert on Byzantine Icons.....Iconoclasts in the 7th & 8th Centuries were only defeated by references to the, "Image of Our Lord not made by Human hands"....I have the "Theology of the Icon" in 2 volumes by Leonid Ouspensky...tracing the origins of Christian image from earliest times. The chapter on Iconoclasm mentions the Shroud as the ancient Name Image not made by human hands. Too bad speaker does not know this.
Also, Do you know about Eusebius Bishop of Caesarea in 326 AD He was in Jerusalem when the excavations uncovered the Tomb of the Holy Sepulchre...He described what he saw in his book, The Life of Constantine Book 3 Chapter 28, Eusebius wrote about the discovery of the Holy Sepulchre:
"This also was accomplished without delay. But as soon as the original surface of the ground, beneath the covering of earth, appeared, immediately, and contrary to all expectation, the venerable and hollowed monument of our Saviour’s resurrection was discovered. Then indeed did this most holy cave present a faithful similitude of his return to life, in that, after lying buried in darkness, it again emerged to light, and afforded to all who came to witness the sight, a clear and visible proof of the wonders of which that spot had once been the scene, a testimony to the resurrection of the Saviour clearer than any voice could give."
I wonder if there was a scorch mark on the wall similar to the Shroud of Turin...
Is it possible that what the disciples saw was a holographic projection of Jesús, projected in a very advanced way, from some alien ship in orbit around earth? Maybe the physical Jesús was in the satellite, and what the disciples saw was bent light.
Charles Long uh no..no it is not possible.
Hello Russ, I really like the fact Mr. Wesselow titles his book....THE SIGN. All he has to do now is just add a few words to the title and he will have it spot on. THE SIGN OF JONAH.
Matthew 12:38
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You."
Jesus replied, “A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth
The word Sign also means EVIDENCE. POINTER, MARKER, MANIFESTATION.
So Jesus said he was going to leave EVIDENCE of his crucifixion, death and resurrection
A pointer, a marker, a manifestation
So where is the Sign of Jonah?
Shroud of Turin...
The Shroud is THE SIGN AND THE POINTER to the True Savior.
Just as the Almighty God used to LINEN as the SIGN POINTING to the true savior when Jesus was born
"This shall be a SIGN unto you....."you will find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothing"
When Elijah put his mantle in the River Jordan it parted the waters. Spirit of God likes to use linen to work miracles with.
When Elijah went into heaven his mantle fell of him and was left behind.
Roman soldiers searched for him for 3 days. (note the 3 day connection to tie events together)
Only his mantle was left behind
Preceding event to what happens with Jesus
He leaves his Mantle/Shroud behind
and also went into Heaven
But bottom line
SHROUD IS THE SIGN OF JONAH. A mathematical certainty.
The image {the negative} on the shroud of Turin must have been caused by a brilliant light...
@Jeremy Kirkpatrick How did the image get put on Shroud? Why can't science remake it? If it's a fraud it should be easy to remake it.
Agreed
@Jeremy Kirkpatrick do you know of a better explanation?
Check other videos on the subject. Your theory could be correct if you believe the conclusion of certain scientists that the image is: a hologram, generated by gamma radiation, by energy directed absolutely perpendicular to the cloth, only affects the tiniest surface strands of the linen fibres, is imposed over the blood stains, is a perfect anatomical image. These and other conclusions were drawn by a team of diverse scientists and subject matter experts such as this speaker.
Finally, the allegation that it was a forgery because of the result of carbon dating was explained in another video (and the same video I’m listing these conclusions from) with another scientist with the admission that the sample of cloth taken was from the edge of the cloth in an area previously repaired in the medieval period which the shroud is said to have been forged in.
It was an unfortunate oversight made because of concern for the integrity of the shroud and image that they used a sample from an ‘inconspicuous’ area. The sample material was cotton woven into the linen and of a weave totally unlike the herringbone weave of the linen.
This multitude and so many more fascinating conclusions were discussed and explained in just one long video I watched on the subject. I hope your search leads you to it.
Peace be with you.
@Commendatore Good day! Your comment is very brief, and I'm not certain how to interpret what you mean by what you wrote...let me try..."...the dead body made..." I guess you mean the image happened as a result of the body - it's decay, and blood loss. Yes, certain elements of the image on the shroud were created by these natural, physical effects, according to the research by the team of scientists. This is not controversial or contrary to what one would logically expect.
If that's the limit of what Thomas is suggesting, then the other physical characteristics of the shroud do not go answered sufficiently.
Other viewers' comments here are worth reading if we want to get a perspective on what people think Thomas is saying here.
If I understand your comment to mean, 'The shroud was only created by natural causes', then I think this is incorrect. There seem to be some supernatural, or causes for which current science is unable to explain.
The apparent burst of high energy, ionising radiation, that is believed to have created the holographic image, does not have an explanation in current science to explain how or why it happened. Science can answer the HOW, but not these seemingly more important questions.
Finally, I should acknowledge I'm biased, as a Catholic, to believe the miracle of Jesus Christ's resurrection. This resurrection would be causal to the creation of the Shroud, but I've been a skeptic concerning the legitimacy of the Shroud. Given my recent discovery of this and similar videos available on RUclips, I'm moved to believe in the miracle of the Shroud being created by natural and supernatural causes.
I hope this commentary has answered your reply sufficiently.
Peace be with you!
Short version: Jesus' disciples saw the image on his burial cloth, and being animists, thought that the image itself was the resurrected Jesus. Why, oh, why did I watch this video?
@Commendatore My point is that de Wesselow's argument is absurd. I don't have an opinion (let alone belief) on the authenticity of the shroud.
@Commendatore I don't know.
He does the same in his book, takes on a long protracted journey of nothing
@@neilanadams5173 Really? Fortunately, I'll never know.
It all came to an abrupt end. He carried me along with his take on the shroud but suddenly pulled the plug on his own talk...
The carbon dating was taken from a reweaved section that nuns had patched up in medieval times
The image isn't a stain (if he's an expert, or even did any research at all, he would know this). His conclusion is silly and explains nothing.
The origin of Christianity was the appearance of the resurrected Christ and the coming of the Holy Spirit not a mysterious mark on a cloth.
CLIVE, evidence thereof!
Yes, the hallmark of Satanic deception is the OPPOSITE of reality -- he says the cloth IS the 'resurrected body'.
Thomas... FYI
Jesus appeared to, spoke with and ate with his followers after his resurrection. He was around for forty days.
They didn't need a faint image on a linen cloth.. they had the risen Jesus right in front of them.
But this shroud is heaven sent to those of us believers 2000 years into t he future who need 1 faint item to hold onto.this shroud solidifies our faith.Jesus lives my friends aswe do now....He has Risen
Amen
The most amazing Christmas “light” of them all!
This time of year we see a variety of lights to inspire and lift our spirits. But there is one light that is the reason for Christmas that has defied explanation despite 1000s of hours study using the very latest technology and research. It is a “light” that has been likened to the image left behind on walls in Hiroshima after the atomic blast. Based on 1988 radiometric dating, It was once thought to be a medieval replica of the original. This was until they realized that the specimens taken to carbon date it, were from a corner of the cloth that was repaired with cotton after a 14th century fire. A theory 1st scoffed at by Ray Rogers, the forensic chemist who lead the original 1978 STRY team, who now concedes his original '78 specimen does indeed contain extraneous cotton weaving.
If the Shroud of Turin is a forgery of the 14th century, as some sceptics still claim, and not a genuine artefact of the 1st century, all of these qualities of the purported medieval "forgerer" must be accepted. If the Shroud was "forged" it would have to have been painted. It is an irrefutable fact that there is NO paint, pigment, fibre cementing or dusting on the Shroud of Turin leaving the only explanation of the technique of the forger to have used "photography" to manufacture the relic in the THIRTEENTH CENTURY!! Some authors have gone so far as to suggest exactly that.
Whether a relic or a replica it is an amazing, inspirational piece of cloth that defies explanation! Nevertheless one’s faith and thus the existence of God doesnt rise or fall on the authenticity or otherwise of one religious artifact. On the other hand, one can well understand why staunch deniers and cynics dread that it is GENUINE. For they might just have to listen to what Jesus had to say. Below is a link to one brief example of many more extensive videos on the most studied artefact in human history.
John 8:12
God's blessings this Christmas!!
So he thinks the disciples of Jesus seen a piece of cloth with his faint image in it and from this concluded he had come into the room over a period of weeks and ate food with them then they thought because they seen the image in the cloth that that meant Thomas must have come and put his finger into the wound on Jesus's side and Jesus must have ate fish with them and that Jesus was talking with them and even got a bunch of teachings and new quotes from him then they thought they seen him rise up into the sky in front of 500 people.
If you were them and believed in following Jesus like they did which would be more likely to give you the belief that he rose from the dead so strongly that you die a torturous death for that belief you finding his image on cloth after he died? or you being convinced you seen all the above happen? Oh and by the way it was illegal in ancient Jerusalem to take the cloth outside of the tomb so they wouldn't have come running out with it claiming he had risen also the shroud isn't mentioned anywhere in the gospels and they would have been accused of creating the shroud by the authority's and no they would NOT have thought the shroud was a living being because the disciples were not as dumb as this guy is.
"According to ancient Egyptian believe you are looking at a resurrected body" It turns out the disciples of Jesus weren't actually ancient Egyptian's, I know right, who knew?. If we can bring people from another time, place & culture into it like that and claim because they believed this then the disciples must also have then I would like to conclude because according to modern western believe that we aren't looking at a resurrected body then that means the disciples must also have shared this attitude see doesn't make a lot of sense does it?. This is just an atrocious presentation it's such a stupid theory and so insane it made my head hurt I can not believe how far people will go sometimes, a laughable idea.
IF it's a forgery,the forger used atomic physics
forger was some genius with technology of 35th century i guess, he created light of zillion watts of energy but without heat...because that amount of light energy you need to create this image on a cloth creats that amount of heat, that heat would destroy cloth ofcourse....this was the light without so much heat to destroy cloth...everyone who sais that he believes in science should believe in Jesus ressurection if he studies this cloth
Christ is risen!!!!
The most important fact to realize about the Turin Shroud
is that it is not the work of a medieval artist or artisan. This is pretty clear from the STURP team's reported conclusions. The jury is still out on the actual image formation process ( ie whether it was the result of a sudden burst of radiation, or a slower process ( taking no more than 36 hours or so ), but in a sense this is less important. If the Shroud is genuine, and therefore more than 2000 years old, this is enough of a miracle. The fact that it is fully consonant with the reports of his torment and crucifixion in the gospels, and even includes previously undocumented information
( such as the nails being in the wrists ), is utteryl astonishing, and supports the reports of the
many miracles he performed in his lifetime.
Why not listen to Fr Spitzers analysis on the Turin shroud...Or Barrie Schwortz who was the photographer on the team that examined the Shroud ...
The shroud is real and there are some very good scientific videos about it online. However, you will still need faith to believe.
The blood from the Shroud only contained 23 + 1? (Holy Spirit perhaps) chromosomes a normal human has 46, because you are born with 2 parents... Mary was a virgin who could only give her son 23 chromosomes by way of the Holy Spirit. Seems the NT Bible has truth to it after all.
Faith is belief without evidence, mere gullibility.
@@thevulture5750 Do we agreed faith is belief without argument and/or evidence? I place no faith on anything. I require knowledge. We do not know yet how the universe started. You have set up a fallacy of false dichotomy between a nothing caused universe and an alleged divine entity. You may want to take a course in logic and critical thinking.
Our species is endowed by nature with a strong desire to survive. Some folks accept their self-evident mortality. Others invent deities that promise eternal life. Your secret desire I surmise is merely an irrational ego projection to cope with your mortality anxiety.
The Shroud has been Carbon 14 dated by 3 labs to the 1300s AD. The Shroud has a thousand year gap in provenance. Give it up.
@@thevulture5750 Your new missive confirms, with ample evidence, your urgent need for logical education.
One point: There is no dichotomy in stating that as of now we have insufficient evidence to certainly state the origin of the universe.
"People would rather die than think." - Bertrand Russell.
@@thevulture5750 It is logically incoherent and verification bereift. It all starts with an old Sumerian fale about a bare naked lady taking dietary advice from a chatty snake. This leads to dubious dictations by desert Bronze Age warlords in copies of copies of copies of copies from lost manuscripts written by unknown authors, in Greek.
I actually admire a few things about JC. I call myself a Jesusian. I just reject the absurd claims of divinity ascribed by his '"followers." I also like parts of Buddhism and Jainism.
Do really believe snakes can talk?
Chain of custody: The Shroud mysteriously appears in France in the mid-14 century. Where had it been for 1350 years and why wouldn't it be the most revered artifact in Christianity for all those centuries?
I'm pretty sure after seeing him walk on water and raise the dead only seeing his image on some cloth would be a big letdown like you would have expected something cooler from that guy so i'm not convinced they would have been so excited.
Yeah, his theory explains nothing...
The most accurate and possible explanation for the image in the shroud is radiation. A test was conducted by the University of Padua using lazer and ultraviolet. The question will be. How in the world radiation make the image in during that time???
“ 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead.”
Revelation 1 - John’s vision of Jesus
Bad presentation --- see Russ Breault for a better explanation
I read a book by Thomas de Wesselow on the Shroud of Turin. It was very well researched and presented abundant evidence of the authenticity of the Shroud, and refuted many contentions of those who claim it is not authentic. The books was actually a phenomenal compendium of information. However, at the end of the book de Wesselow presented his interpretation of the Shroud, and that is an interpretation I disagree with. He presented his view that the Shroud IS the resurrected Jesus. That is his interpretation of the Shroud with which I disagree. In this video, he touches on some of such things and presents some of his bases for reaching such interpretation.
So, if I understand this correctly the disciples of Jesus went to the tomb, found no body, but found the shroud with the image, and because images capture the spirit they believed Jesus was risen…..and then they poked their hands into the wounds (of the shroud), spoke with the shroud, broke bread and ate fish with the shroud, and watched the shroud ascend into heaven?
Yes, I think they think that’s what they are thinking. 😀
Thats of course nonsense, but he has one very good valid point = if the apostels / Paul has had this shroud in posession, it would explain much better, why pagans around the Meditteranian have found faith at all, even the idea of physical resurrection was so foreign to them!!!
And I have seen just now on a other christian shroud channel that there are hidden clues in the new testamend letters / Acts who speak of the shroud and Pauls comanions that they have traveled with it...
its a photograph..taken by the creator of all things..
His first selfie.
CARBON DATING DOES NOT "PROVE THE SHROUD IS A FRAUD."
The gospels recount that Jesus APPEARED to the desciples. That's why they believed in the resurrection. How does he skip over that fact? His whole premise is rediculous.
I found this argument a bit lacking. Does anyone really think that our ancestors did not recognize their reflections in water. Add to that Egyptians had bronze mirrors, and that an image would be taken as a resurrection is Ludacris.
Thats = was he said is off course absolut nonsense - Greetings from Germany.
If the shroud was authentic people would worship GOD would not permit that.
John 4:24
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
Without the belief in resurrection, the explanation of shroud sounds ridiculous!
Carbon date was removed from a 14th century repair,so you are a doubter and a dreamer, wisdom comes with age, we'll talk later,lol...cA
The ancients may have been animistic... BUT they were not STUPID! They found the grave cloths without the body of Christ, laying there still wrapped as if containing a body. Upon hearing that Jesus was raised from the dead from two woman followers, Peter and the other Apostle ran to the empty tomb and right then and there believed, just by seeing the empty grave cloths, the shroud and laying by itself, the face cloth. WITH NO BODY PRESENT WITHIN THE GRAVE CLOTH ! (Luke 24:12) Where did Jesus's body go then? Jesus either rose from the dead or someone stole the body leaving the grave shroud with an image of Jesus on it. A image on an ancient shroud unlike any ever seen then or even today. And a faint image of a hand on a cloth from a dying person that Thomas de Wesselow shows as proof that a body, or part of a body can be seen on cloths, with scientific scrutiny will not match or even come close to the properties of the Shroud of Turin. The bottom line are these three points: Is it the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.. YES. All evidence, scientific and historic analysis points to that. And the other two points... Did he rise from the dead as he claimed he would? Or did he die as a mere mortal, his body stolen to hide the fact that he did not rise from the dead? These two last points are the real crux of the question. And to give an answer to one or the other is an act of faith. As a Christian, I have the answer to one of these two last points.
I prefer Barrie Schwartz's talk on this as a Jew and part of the scientific panel, sturp, who studied the shroud
Too many adverts.
There's just one major flaw with this guy's hypothesis the church itself in 1357 was pissed off to all hell about people upholding this piece of cloth is being an authentic artifact and here's why. Before the church was built before he was finished I can't remember the year I think it was 1338 they were ordered to take a inventory of all the relics belonging to that church churches were allotted relics to display and they had to take a careful inventory of them well the shroud of Turin was not mentioned in any of the historic documents it simply appeared it's sometime in the 1350s and immediately went on tour making money for the church. The bishops in France got angry about this because they knew it was a forgery due to its size and the fact that it just materialized out of nowhere with no history attributed to it. You see the shroud of Turin should have been about one and a half feet square not 14 ft long! In John The book of John he goes into great detail about how the body of Christ was wrapped over and over and over with different things and packed with materials and then a small piece of cloth was draped over his face. The process was meticulously recorded by John. So it doesn't fit any narrative whatsoever and the church itself knew it was a fake artifact that people were using to trying to make money it was debunked in the 1300s for God's sake!!!!
The shroud of Turin was a fake there's no ifs and butts or debates about it it was fake.
You would believe anything, except the science, right? It was not debunked. There were no bishops [plural]. There is not great detail in John. Smoke less.
Surely this guy knows who the reknowned artist and particle physicist Isobel Piczek is and has read or heard her expert analysis and scientific explanation of how the 3D image on the shroud was made! The radiation from the resurrection itself is the only explaination for the image. There's a video "Event horizon Dame Isobel Piczek". She gives the most simplistic, logical, perfectly beautiful expert opinion I've ever heard. She's by far more knowledgable of art and of the shroud than Thomas plus she's a respected scientist too. Thus her expertise on this subject is far more valueable than his. This guy doesnt even address how the disciples opened the tomb with a stone they couldnt possible move or how they would've even been looking at an image of Jesus on the shroud if he didn't resurrect... I mean he's suggesting they unwrapped the body and stole his burial clothe disrespecting their Lords body that they took such care in wrapping and that is ridiculous.
He almost got it right. Its the shroud, WITHOUT THE PRESENCE OF A BODY, that started Christianity. The Apostles died brutal deaths telling the Truth about seeing Jesus alive after death. There is no other image like the shroud anywhere on earth. Any attemps to replicate it can never replicate the 3D imaging and double negative information thats found inside the shroud.
It would have been better if the historian had read from a script at a podium. It's irritating when he says negative then positive, right then left. I'm not surprised at academics being 'brilliant' and then being useless when it comes to seemingly simple things.
Do yourself a favour and read the Bible. Mary, a woman, saw the Risen Christ first outside in the garden, Doubting Thomas did not believe the disciples had seen the risen Christ until he had put his fingers into Jesus's wounds, the risen Jesus ate and drank, appeared to hundreds, and he met the disciples by the sea of Galilee cooking for them on the beach ... and Jesus was seen being taken back to heaven the mountain... after asking Peter ... do you love me ... 3 times ... and telling Peter his ministry... then there is Saul who encountered the risen Messiah on the road to Damascus ... Saul was a murderer of Christians... hated them, was a Rabbi and Roman citizen ... his encounter with Jesus changed him to be the greatest advocate for Christ .. he became Paul .. he went back to visit the Sanhedrin and Roman's telling them that Jesus is God ... eventually he was executed by the Romans .... the Disciples ran away when Jesus was brutally murdered... they were not so naive or stupid to look at a cloth and think it was Jesus whom they walked with for 3 years ... all of them ... came back and preached that Jesus is who he said he was ... read Isaiah 53 ... fortelling Jesus several hundred years before his coming... also check out the science of the image ... the image was made after death .. and the energy came from the body .. What made the disciples return to preach the Gospel facing persecution.... crucifixion, torture.. I would say that they met the risen Christ ... to be that brave... Jesus is like marmite ... love him or hate him ... but His message will outlast the vanity of humanity. .. people in the first century .. especially Hebrews where very careful not to worship idols ... some of the greatest theologians and philosophers came from Hebrew scholars ...
Old information as carbon dating was a erroneous.
Hmm what about the crowd of 500 people that Jesus appeared to after his crucifixion? Lets not even start with 'hallucinations' , did they all just see this shroud as well? How did this shroud talk to all 500 people? So many other things in the presentation that are a little shaky.
We have one person claiming Jesus appeared to 500 people at one time.
What phone number did you use to call God and ask if an imprint was done with or without His help?
Amen my Lord of Lords....Amen
People who suddenly develop an interest in the Shroud because they are drawn to it by either their curiosity or sense of novelty can no more solve it's mystery than if a person were able to compose music like Beethoven jyst because they too are drawn to it by their own curiosity. The person who solves the mystery is one who is fated to do it, by GOD or nature and does so without self serving desires or ego
Shroud of Turin is THe SIGN like the title of Mr. Wesslow's book.... But he missed 2 more words. OF JONAH. Shroud is THE SIGN OF JONAH. It is that simple. Mystery solved.
ruclips.net/video/u7MPMG8p9Q8/видео.html
Who are you kidding? The more humans "solve" this mystery, the more they realize but it's a photograph of the Resurrection, and only God could have done it.
He’s really grasping at straws. If he understood multiple advanced fields of science (I do) he would know the shroud is authentic. I studied particle physics in 9th grade. I understand many fields of science. The shroud cannot be explained. It’s impossible. It’s time science considered the impossible.
omg! Tom needs a glass of water.
If the shroud is the source of christianity why is there no mention of the image in the gospels ? Also there is no mention that scientists haven't come up with a natural explanation of the image. The theory doesn't make sense of the evidence.
I believe the spear in the chest wasn't there but lower down on the right side by his belly
You may ignore everything, but you cannot ignore the fact that the death and resurrection of Christ was foretold in the Hebrew bible centuries before him. Every detail from his town to the way he shall die to who shall kill him. It’s beyond us, this guys here says that the disciples took the image of Jesus and believed to be his resurrection well that’s not possible, because first the disciples heavily doubt Jesus after his death and were ready to leave all the mess and go back to their regular lives but the stuck to the promise Jesus gave them that he would be resurrected on the third day as it was foretold and he did and yet a guy named Thomas the apostle of Christ doubted saying I would like to see him and touch his wounds and poke my finger in the nail piercing and then I will believe they certainly weren’t delusional. 2nd all the life and death of Christ as I said was foretold and was the part of the Jewish belief so they certainly wouldn’t worship an image of a man and perceive it as resurrection, and Jesus said I will be resurrection in flesh as you see me now you shall see me the same way on the 3rd day. So this man here need to go do his research again, why call such folks to speak who clearly have bare minimum knowledge about the topic I don’t get it.
He's selling his book. That is all.
It Scares the Shit out of sinners to give God much thought , that's their worse nightmare , deny at all cost.
How can they continue Sinning is they suddenly get a Guilty Complex.
You have to be Blind , deaf and Dumb if you cannot accept Jesus is real , just watch a few days worth of near death experiences.
But being a Terrible sinner myself it scares me to death , because i know i deserve Hell if i was 100% Honest , so i do doubt about which one i will go too.
We do reap what we Sow.
However i will never renounce Jesus , there is no going back once you know the Truth.
It's possible or probable, that the shroud image darkened over time and was at first invisible or barely visible.
Which would make the speaker's theory impossible.
@@hxhdfjifzirstc894
There was something about the linen cloth that the disciple saw and caused him to believe.
John 20:3-9 "So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen. Finally, the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed."
Any Christian student of the Bible knows there's many scriptures that forbid false teachings but just look at God's 2nd commandment which has been removed from the RCC bibles: "You shall not make you any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, or that's in the waters beneath the earth: You shall not bow down yourself before them nor serve them: for I the LORD your God am a posessive God.." After commanding man never to make any idol, graven image, likeness of anything to be prayed to, idolized, worshiped, bowed down to, he would never, ever contradict himself by making an image of himself. Why do u people believe man over the word of our Creator? Is God a liar? or is man?,
Tell us something we don't already know.
What
Is this man going on about
Well, that explains nought. Talk about missing the point.
I like his fact based and objective presentation. I know he is a skeptic but he has done some good research.
Jesús is coming to south América ⭐
Poor doubting Thomas.
América is Father house john14 2 and Chile is third heaven and Paradise ⭐
Interesting argument, very scientific. Even explaining the image of the man in the bed. Some coincidences cannot be easily explained. Sadly being a thing of faith - for me - there is more than that coincidence. Your science is interesting and my faith equals some type of ignorance. Thanks Mr de Wesslow for this talk.
Rather disappointing talk by Thomas Wesselow, bordering on the stupid! He seems to be under the delusion that there are only two possibilities to understand the image on the shroud:
1) it is a medieval painting (which he correctly shows is unlikely). Or
2) It is genuine, implying a miraculous image..
The problem is that it could be neither, yet STILL be a forgery! The fact that we can't yet establish how the image appeared does not lead us to conclude that it must be either a brush-stroke painting or be genuine. If we can establish that it is not a painting, we cannot then conclude that therefore it is miraculous. We just don't yet understand the technique used to produce the image. The fact that the negative photograph suggests a 3-D image does not prove it is miraculous (on the basis that forgers from the Middle Ages couldn't have appreciated a 3-D image), because the 3-D image may just be coincidental to the technique used to create it. So, the 3-D image on the negative provides no proof that the image is genuine and miraculous.
So, we need to investigate how the image could have appeared through a natural process that was not dependent on conventional painting techniques. It could be a medieval work of art, but created by non-conventional techniques. A miraculous explanation is less likely than a natural one.
See also: rationalwiki.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin
Paul Sandberg Only the fact that no one today, in our supposedly advanced civilization, can answer the question you posed- is a miracle in itself, don't you think?
Don't super- complicate stuff. Just believe!
Mike, did you even bother to read the link I provided? There are other reasonable hypotheses as to how the image was created. Just because we are not sure does not imply therefore God must have done it! In the absence of causal evidence, a natural cause is more probable by far than a miraculous one. "Just believe" is a claim made by all religions, but you only use it to support your religion.
Mike, in particular, from the link I supplied (under "Theories"):
"The techniques required to create primitive photographs had been available since the 11th century in the book of optics, by Ibn al-Haytham, or Alhazen, as he was known in the west. The silver sulphate acted as a negative which propagated an image onto the cloth when exposed by light through the lens. Silver sulphate and the camera obscura technique were known in the 15th century."
That is a plausible scientific hypothesis for the creation of the image - no miracle required!
"
Paul Sandberg I opened the link. But, got bored.
But, Ok. Just for discussion sake, let's say it's a work of an artist, a wizard or whatever. For what purpose? To elevate Christ even more, without making oneself known?
I say, that's a great fairy- tale. He could've become the greatest artist of all time, yet, chose obscurity and left us with an unsolvable riddle instead?
If we go that speculative road- instead of the road well trodden, where millions of people, who couldn't even see the figure as clearly as we do today, wholeheartedly believed was the burial cloth of Christ- it's going be a religion all by itself.
The odds- that the figure seen on the cloth, is NOT a miraculous imprint left for us, as a witness for the Ressurection of Christ, considering all the circumstantial evidence- are in the millions to 1.
A very powerful force of radiation, measured in nano- seconds, created that image. And it came, indisputably, from within the cloth- not externally.
Hi Mike Morduk, I think your reply lacks common sense. You ask: "let's say it's a work of an artist, a wizard or whatever. For what purpose? To elevate Christ even more, without making oneself known?"
The answer to that silly question is that we are probably dealing with a FORGERY! No self-respecting artist wants to be labelled a forger, and the penalty would be a prison sentence, if proven. There were many religious forgeries doing the rounds in those medieval times, and this one was a major suspect (check out the history of the Turin shroud. Bishop Pierre d'Arcis wrote to Clement VII that the shroud was a forgery and that the artist had confessed, although we don't know more details). Furthermore, there is no record of the Shroud before the 14th century, which raises grounds for doubt about its authenticity. Its origins have never been clarified.
The artist - whoever he was - wanted to create a technique which would pass all tests for forgery, and have the credibility of his creation unassailable, and hence be of great value. A recognised forgery has no value. Using ordinary, conventional painting techniques, the Shroud would quickly be identified as a fraud and have no value.
You claim that the odds of the Shroud being a forgery are in the millions to 1. But how do you arrive at that figure? What is your evidence for evaluating it so?! Modern forensic techniques established it to be a fraud in 1988, but I accept that the radiocarbon dating applied is controversial. The Vatican has not proclaimed its authenticity, but remains ambivalent. Even they don't claim (as you do) to know!
You say you opened the link "but got bored". This indicates that either you have a very poor attention span or you are not interested in Truth. You want to follow your own agenda, which is one of opinion and credulousness (without evidence). As for me, i seek the Truth.
He's ripped off Ian Wilson and is just trying to make money off the Shroud.
That was some reallllyyyyy shaky logic
Jesus was only 33 yrs old when he died. Didnt have a white beard either.
The man in the Shroud does not have a white beard either.
Stylized B.S.
I think the greatest revelation of the shroud, is that photography was invented earlier than thought.
Ho-hum.
This art historian is missing the best fact about the shroud and over simplifying the explanation for the belief in resurrection. Not only has he missed the obvious point that Jesus is not in the tomb but the image is a 3D image that has 3D information in it that could have only been produced by the dead body of christ almost exploding with energy and radiation and releasing a singularity of radiation that scorches the image of his body, combined with the material that touched the surface of the cloth like blood and sweat etc.. The image was made at the exact point of Jesus's resurrection when his body transformed with a release of great energy and light. Unbelievably it's the exact moment of resurrection. Nothing else exists like this on the entire planet and nobody can recreate it's image with any kind of success. I'm truly convinced that this is exactly what it says it is and happened in the way that the bible describes. Prays God
10:07 Douchebag
What a waste of time!
The shroud has been proven not to be authentic. "You can convince a believer of anything, for their belief is not based on evidence, it is based on a deep seated need to believe." Carl Sagan
@Allan Bishop Can't wrap a 1st Century cadaver in a 14th Century cloth.
@Allan Bishop Radio carbon testing by 3 major universities established that the shroud was fabricated in the 14th Century.
@Allan BishopPerhaps not a deranged forger, but an intelligent one with intended purposes. Three samples were taken, not one, and they each came to the same conclusion, 14th Century fabric. The samples indicated pollen from a handful of countries, including Africa, so that's all it proves.
@Jerry Poplin Not true that a hundred or so scientists have proven it to be the actual burial cloth of Jesus Christ. Name two scientists or PHD's who are not theologians asserting that the shroud dates to the First Century. I couldn't find Dr. Ray Rogers, the scientist on a Google search, so apparently he's someone's fabrication.
@@bisbeekid Not correct, one awful corner sample was taken which was cut into several pieces. None of the protocols were followed which alone should have invalidated the result.
1910 called and they want their theory back. Leonardo da vinci made the shroud with the camera obscura. The evidence is overwhelming.
Show the evidence
Even the misguiding carbon 14 test dates it more than half century older than Davici. How do you explain that?
Your theory has been debunked.
DAVID YALL ARE STILL TELLING THESE
LIE'S! BECAUSE OF MONEY OR TRYING
TO BE FAMOUS! I KNOW IT'S FAKE YALL
ARE GOING TO FOOL PEOPLE! BUT IT'S
A BIG FAT LIE!🙂
God does not dwell or talk out of crosses but demons do. Catholic crosses are their idols and many will be in hell for idolatry and Goddess worship. NO, early Christians did not worship the shroud as a double for Jesus. Please repent and turn to Jesus Christ cause he is the only one who can save you no religion can do that.
Acts 7:48King James Version (KJV) 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Another ignorant of catholic teachings. You look as stupid talking about Catholicism as this guy looks stupid talking about the shroud.
Carlos Velasco he’s right about Catholicism though , my whole family is catholic , they praise Mary as if she were a Goddess , there’s 10 Hail Marys for every 1 Our Father , I’d say that is idolatry :/
You are an idiot I’m not going to waste my time listening to you.
shows how DESPERATE christians wanted to to believe...anyone have DNA of jesus?
1) The red covering of the linen threads is blood identified of human kind of AB group. This is confirmed by various specific analyses.
2) The red covering contains human male DNA. They found a modest quantity of female DNA due to a contamination during the TS restoration, but the presence of male DNA is more remarkable.
3) The high quantity of bilirubin they found is sign of a person heavy traumatized before his death.
Indeed, the bright red of the bloodstains is caused by the presence of a high quantity of bilirubin.
4) In numerous flows the coagulation phases of blood are evident. One observes the clot formation and its retraction with crust and serous exudate formation.
5) It wrapped a wounded man: around the bloodstains there are halos of serum, invisible with the naked eye. Ultraviolet fluorescence photographs, unknown in the Middle Ages, confirm this. Therefore it is not likely the hypothesis that the MTS remained inside the sepulchre in state of coma. From the thoracic wound, the serum too dropped besides the blood. It is possible to realize such halos only through contact with hematic clots. The blood, coagulated on the wounded skin, transferred on the cloth through fibrinoulisis, that during the first 36 hours causes a remelting of the blood.
6) It wrapped a corpse: the stains of living and post-mortal blood are perfectly transferred. They are due to a direct contact with the wounds of a human body. In the ultraviolet fluorescence photographs one can distinguish even the slightest signs of flagrum.
7) On the Face image the blood perspiration is evident. The computerized image analysis shows a probable hematohydrosis on the whole Face.
8) The MTS shows the effects of a still and naked scourging by two executioners. One can count in UV light the lacerated and contused wounds11, 120 radially arranged strokes, caused by a Roman flagrum, with two different sources. Lesions on the gluteals don’t lack. The scourging didn’t happen during the transport of the cross.
9) It provides till now inedited details of Christ Passion: the at least 50 imprints in correspondence of the head, caused by sharp objects, correspond to the effects of a helmet of thorns. Therefore it was not the circle of thorns of the Western tradition. The helmet of thorns is conformable to the Eastern royal crowns. It was not usual in the Roman crucifixions to crown with thorns the head of the condemned.
10) It is not a medieval painting: the imprints point out the difference between arterial and venous blood discovered in 1593. One can clearly distinguish hemorrhages of living blood from post-mortal extravasations, hemorrhages of arterial, venous, mixed or hypostatic blood.
11) It wrapped a man who was hanged to a cross since the hematic flows respect the law of gravity, (discovered in 1666) and the position of the crucified Man. For instance one considers the blood flow on the right forehead-temporal area that came out from an artery, it flew down long the hair frame, and the flows coming out of the wrists.
12) The body was wrapped in the sheet not over two hours and a half after the death. Until little before the death the blood flew from the wounds. The blood came out after death from the holes in the feet and in the wrists during the unnailing and from the side wound also during the deposition.
13) The sheet “became empty”. The contact between body and sheet interrupted without altering the blood transfers remained extremely clear. An hypothesis to explain this phenomenon could be the crossing of the body become “mechanically transparent with respect to the sheet, during the resurrection”
14) If the blood transfer was obtained in the Middle Ages by a clever forger-murder who tortured until death a man to reproduce the same wounds caused by the executioners to Jesus. It is not easy to reproduce in the least details all the signs of the Passion and certain particulars of the Roman crucifixion were unknown in the Middle Ages. It is not easy to wound at the side the dead victim and let coming out from it blood and serum separated. This affirmation doesn’t explain how one obtained the body image.
The most important fact to realize about the Turin Shroud
is that it is not the work of a medieval artist or artisan. This is pretty clear from the STURP team's reported conclusions. The jury is still out on the actual image formation process ( ie whether it was the result of a sudden burst of radiation, or a slower process ( taking no more than 36 hours or so ), but in a sense this is less important. If the Shroud is genuine, and therefore more than 2000 years old, this is enough of a miracle. The fact that it is fully consonant with the reports of his torment and crucifixion in the gospels, and even includes previously undocumented information
( such as the nails being in the wrists ), is uterl astonishing, and supports the reports of the
many miracles he performed in his lifetime.
The most important fact to realize about the Turin Shroud
is that it is not the work of a medieval artist or artisan. This is pretty clear from the STURP team's reported conclusions. The jury is still out on the actual image formation process ( ie whether it was the result of a sudden burst of radiation, or a slower process ( taking no more than 36 hours or so ), but in a sense this is less important. If the Shroud is genuine, and therefore more than 2000 years old, this is enough of a miracle. The fact that it is fully consonant with the reports of his torment and crucifixion in the gospels, and even includes previously undocumented information
( such as the nails being in the wrists ), is uterl astonishing, and supports the reports of the
many miracles he performed in his lifetime .