@Tano A lot of these incompatibilities are actually a direct cause of the C language refusing to keep up with the times. It leads to programmers bit banging protocols and making their own interfaces which are very rigid instead of using dynamic programming methods. With a more dynamic system a data stream is a data stream and where it comes from doesn't matter, but when a programmer only programs an interface for a specific set of protocols/circumstances any change causes issues. That is why on the net things are much more compatible and portable. C is the worst when it comes to these problems because it is so limited that developers will even make their own memory allocators. C++ at least somewhat keeps up with progress, so you see a lot less of it. Python is in my opinion the most popular system language that benefits from this progress. Sadly PIP is such a terrible mess that it gives node/npm competition. Having multiple sets of the same python libraries for each version and environment is a huge waste of space and when a bad configuration system that uses CMD prompts and a current working directory to control where things are installed it is a recipe for disaster. When installing FreeCAD plugins were trying to install into the wrong repository and into locations which were write-protected by Win10 and since I have over 10 Python installs (2.7, 3.6, 3.7, 3.8 and 3.9) for compatibility reasons, it cost me DAYS to get the mess sorted out. Not only should everything be installed in one repo, versioning should use subdirectories inside a libs own folder. That would keep things tidy and easily found. This rant is getting long, but I hope that in the future we get a fix for this idiocy because NodeJS/JS has destroyed the web development industry while System programming keeps getting more and more languages that each fix half the issues while introducing more of their own. Unless they gain acceptance like C has or compile down to Assembly they are not a fix at all and just create a more fractured ecosystem and of time.
@@excitedbox5705 Why is it a problem of the C language specifically? I am fine with it being left not 'modernized', in that it is a simple, easy to understand and does not do millions of abstractions for you, it does not hide away things, it makes you aware, makes you understand top to bottom. Indeed, maybe it is for people interested in doing the job properly, not half baked. With C, you have few things built-in, you learn the basics very well, which does not take you ages, because the base is tiny compared with other languages, and you are good to go. It makes you responsible, it makes you use your brain, it makes you improve yourself. With this responsibility comes great reward when you manage it properly. With a bunch of other languages, they have so many things that it is impossible for a novice to start writing and write proper code at the same time. Eventually you get tired, don't understand the purpose of a lot of stuff and misuse it because you do not know it well. But anyway, from your reply, I don't get any actual example of why C is bad... why coding your own stuff is specifically bad? C supports libraries just fine, just like C++ does, you can't tell me people build 'memory allocators' when working in C because they do not have a 'new' keyword like in C++. So, again, C is bad because some people do not know how to include and link a library, while in Python or whatever high level thing you mention some agent does it automatically behind the scenes for you, so that 90% of new users do not even know how it works? I don't think those types of guys write the software side of the USB stacks on printers and motherboards, though. People that do serious stuff choose C because it is friendly enough for a human, yet very close to how the machine actually works, which benefits in a lot of scenarios. You're not coding on a hypothetical Turing machine, you are coding on a real one, where computer science theories like O complexities matter, of course, but there are a ton of other things like L caches, certain instructions performing better, scheduling choices, interrupts and many more...
It’s not just printers. Some wireless mice don’t play nice with USB 3.x either. My Razer Atheris is one such example. USB 3.x results in erratic performance, where 2.0 and BT work just fine.
Should still be all USB 3.0 ports on the machine. In the extreme niche case where you have a machine that won’t work on USB 3.0 use a USB 2.0 extension cable to force it to work.
I can live with USB2 and Realtek NICs as long as I have the PCI-E riser - which unfortunately got removed here. Personally that's the biggest bummer. Probably sticking to M920q or P330/340s for now.
I upgraded from a B150 platform with 1G NIC to a B550 board with 2.5G NIC (both from realtek) and the new one stops working at least daily, so there's something to sticking with proven components.
E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G, literally everything I bother to even Google these days is either not available, either out of stock. Complain about the economy going downhill, every non tech person around me says "are you crazy, have you seen the amount of cars on the roads?" Ofc people are on the roads, if they cannot have computers and GPUs and tech stuff to keep them busy and inside, they have to compromise and get outside... Nice product, I will probably get it by the time the next version is obsolete.
We're buying new laptops, new MacMini's and new Lenovo Tiny's with 24 hour turnaround. We work with CDW and they keep a healthy amount in stock so we're promised quick shipping. You really need to find better suppliers. We're having zero issues standardizing builds and having them shipped quickly. No clue where you're trying to buy from. Our pricing has been better than what we've found on Amazon so we're happy there as well.
@@lexwaldez Idk, I am not from the US, I am from Europe. The situation is indeed even shittier here. I mean, as usual, if it were good, they wouldn’t have left looking to get to India...
I've been waiting for this great review for a while. I got mine finally(after pestering you about how cheap i paid for it, for about 5 weeks), custom configured from lenovo's website $530(using 45% off coupon) with 4750GE, 4GB RAM, 500GB WD HDD, WIFI 6 Win10Pro, and an extra USB-C port For $120 i added a 500GB Samsung 970 evo+ and 16GB of RAM. Seems to work as 8GB dual channel and 12GB of single channel though i dont know how to test that other than saying "yep, integrated graphics seem faster". I ended up ordering a second matching 16GB sodimm as i could use that 4GB module elsewhere so if it improves further i'll know that it wasnt in dual channel This little thing is faster, and more efficient at handbrake x265 software encoding than my M1 Mac Mini(as long as i dont allow the 4750GE to turbo). I'm hoping this comes down to handbrake for ARM still being in beta, though it is possible that Apple is just leaning too heavily on ASICs, dont get me wrong the VideoToolbox ASIC is fast, but the file sizes are significantly larger than using the CPU. A little dissapointing seeing i bought the M1 Mini to dedicate to x265 software transcoding What i think is VERY interesting is that there seems to be traces, and places for pins, for a PCIe 8x slot, now this wont be for a customer provided card, but it might be for say a workstation version with a dedicated GPU much like the M920x or Thinkstation P330/340 tiny
@@ServeTheHomeVideo The first one i ordered was canceled, but it worked the second time i ordered(took about 3 weeks to show the first unit had been canceled) My co-worker ordered the same thing but without USB-C and didnt have issues. CDWG has the thing listed as EOL for some reason. But has, as far as i can tell, an identical one that still shows as backordered. I wonder if there wasnt an issue with some part on the motherboard, as all of the listed parts are exactly the same model, from the RAM, and WD hard drive, to the intel WiFi
how is the fan noise? does it switch off completely during light tasks? How soon does it kick in? Do you have any coil whine? Would be super helpful :)
@@simonb.979 The fan can get loud, i dont have a DB meter but think a bit more quiet than a gaming laptop with nvidia XX60 class card. The fan does not shut off completely for me, but that might because i have it inside of a monitor(barely audible while browsing youtube if you stick your ear up next to the monitor's exhaust). If you dont want it to get loud under full load keep it at 3Ghz it should be nice and quiet. I havent noticed any coil wine but i'm using the 90w adapter that came with the monitor
I still see issues with input devices being plugged into USB 3.x ports while USB 2.0 work is just fine. This is especially true with mice and keyboards during boot/bios/UEFI. Also, USB 2.0 takes up a lot fewer PCIe lanes than USB 3.x. I do think this device should have them, but on the front, not the back for your standard mouse and keyboard for a productivity desktop.
If you can pick these things up cheap enough on the secondary market, then these things would make for fantastic little ESXi nodes for a stealth home lab. Throw the max RAM configuration into it (I'm guessing 64GB) and call it a day.
At this point, I basically avoid anything that isn't an Intel NIC onboard. I had a few Dell 3080's with Realtek NICs and I couldn't get ESXi 7.0 to install at all, even after making a custom ISO with fling drivers and a known working USB 3.0 to Gigabit NIC adapter attached. It's a shame, that processor has great potential for a small node.
Article about orchestration with AMD DASH/Intel AMT or with some KVMoIP devices would be really great addition to these "tiny-mini-micro" series. I bet many watchers dream about clustering those devices in their small homelabs.
Same thing happened to me. I ordered the 4750ge version with 4gb ram from lenovo's site, then after about three weeks of waiting I randomly login and find my order was cancelled. They didn't even send an email about it. Even bought 32gb sodimm's for the thing. Their support chat told me they ran out of some part they needed but couldn't tell me which, so I went back to their configurator and it let me put in another order for the exact same configuration. Lenovo you jackasses what are you even doing.
If price is equal, M90q Gen2. The M75q Gen2 has been hard to find so prices have been higher. We will talk about it in the next week or two when we have the piece on the M75q Gen2 with the Ryzen 5000 series
The USB 2.0 ports might be there for compatibility. I know, in 2021 it might not make too much sense. But consider how long COM ports and PS/2 ports stuck around...
Would it be possible to solder the unpopulated M2 and full size PCIE?? the holes are there, looks like anyone with a hot air rework station could to it. The only thing that might stop it is a BIOS that wont recognize them.
I kind of am in the same league ok with 1or 2 usb2 ports. But what I do not like in this model is on the back, one of the 2 usb3 port is specially for keyboard use. Only hooking to that port you can power on using keyboard. So you either lose one usb3 port to lowly keyboard use or lose keyboard power on feature. There are also 2 usb2 ports on the back. Why not dedicate a usb2 port for keyboard power on feature. Such feature has been existed since before usb3 came into being . Sine Lenovo enables this pc be mounted and hide on the back of a monitor, using keyboard to power on is important as the pc power button can be hard to reach.
@@AndrewStrydomBRP So does one just purchase two dual rank SODIMMs to get the performance of dual rank? Is the motherboard compatible with both single and dual rank?
@@MicheIIePucca If you install dual channel memory then you will get dual channel performance, make sure the sticks both match sizes. I cannot tell you much else since I don't have this but i recall it does support dua channel from watching that video 4 months back.
You call out, the review of the NUC 11 Pro. I'm highly interested, because I think about to replace my Thinkpad W520 i7qm with one, because I want to connect 3x 1440p displays + my Sonnet TB3 10G SFP Adapter. Reason for going away from the laptop is the need for "newer" gpu, more (16gb+x) and faster networking. The Quadro 1000m already have problems with 720p in fullscreen and last time out of the docking station is ~14 months.
At some point the technology transition needs to happen though. With WiFi 6, wired connections need to get faster to keep pace with WiFi speed increases.
@@tommihommi1 Totally true, with WiFi 6e that will be more common though. Years ago wired was the much faster and more reliable option. It still is, but 2.5GbE helps maintain the advantages over wireless.
we need a standard for external pci-e to make a jab at thunderbolt. kinda like those asus laptops that have a custom external pci-e gen4 x8 connector for lossless egpu unit with desktop level rtx-3060ti. that beats the maxq and close to maxp mobile rtx=3070 even because the only difference is pci-e gen4 x8 from desktop rtx-3060ti. if a strait external pci-e gen4 x3 connector was made that would beat thunderbolt 4 and why not just pci-e gen4 x4 to match what nvme ssds use!
Glad to finally see reviews of the 4000 series. We're on the 5k series now though and they're even further our in performance. My 4900hs is on par with my desktop 2700x yet uses a quarter of the power or less. Being 100% for performance per watt I can't wait for these 8c/16t 4000/5000 series to drop in price specially adding in more sata/nvme to make it more home server friendly Side note, anyone got a recommendation for a nvme to 2-4 sata converter?
In this segment, these are still the current gen. 5000 series Zen 3 is currently for desktops. I expect that to change soon, but we cannot review products that are not yet released for the 1L segment.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo of course and if this certainly not a jab at you guys It's mostly I'm hoping for a time when laptop parts and apus get same gen releases. Also looking to having more laptop apus in these sub 1L boxes. Like I said I'm a power saving junkie 😅
@@ServeTheHomeVideo hey Patrick, the m75q gen2 is available with a zen3 5650ge at the same price as the zen2 4750ge. Interested in doing a test? I have one you can borrow.
@@siriusroadster Hey David, thanks for the kind offer. We are 100% swamped between now and Christmas. I may order one and see if I can play with it over the break
14:00 - With the previous Gen 1 version, it was mentioned (in the Lenovo forums) that if you upgrade to/obtain the 135w power adapter, the system would detect and increase the performance. Any chance you might be able to get the 135w power brick to try it out with the Gen 2 version?
A question to anyone who owns this unit - is it loud? I noticed the SFF version of the m75q has the TUV Low Noise Certificate - how about the Tiny version?
The CPU supports it. I have a Ryzen PRO 4650G on a cheap ass 70€ ASUS TUF A520M-PLUS running with 2x 16GB Samsung DDR4-2666 Unbuffered ECC RAM. I have validated error reporting using mild overclock under Linux (Kernel 5.8), so you get notified via OS, whenever a corrected / uncorrectable error occurs. However, the mainboard needs to support it aswell. And I can't answer that for this Lenovo system. Either way: if you're your own boss or in home use scenarios, going down this route is fine. If you have a job to lose, or this is for mission critical stuff, look for something else.
Not ECC, but if the RAM claims can run @ 3200 but only when on 1.35v, not 1.2 v (such as Crucial ballistic 3200), then the RAM will only run at 2666. The BIOS has no setting to raise the ram slot voltage above 1.2
The intel Mac mini would work, RAM is upgradable so I would just upgrade CPU and/or SSD and then upgrade ram for cheap. I can't think of any other common machines this size with TB3, there should be more, so nice to have a PCIe 4x interface in a USB-C connector.
Could be a very nice box for an ESXI cluster wtih some VMs on it including pfsense. Pity it's not available and the pci-e riser or the pci-e cover is impossible to get anywhere.
I'm probably going to get this when it's back in stock. Why can't I get a micro ATX system with an x16 slot for a video card that idles at 7 watts? I'm sure it's possible so why won't someone design the dang thing! People always dis power consumption. Electricity doesn't cost much but it adds up and is wasteful. And more and more people are moving to solar at home. Space heaters are not cool if you don't need them. How about an asymmetric dual socketed CPU board? One power efficient chip(you choose) and another built for speed(you choose). Turn the 2nd CPU on and off as needed. Have some sort of displayport pass-through for the video card and turn the power on it all the way on or completely off to the video card. If the video card can boot in 20 seconds that would be acceptable.
OK, I really like these mini micro PC's but even if you get a good deal ($200 or less) you still need a monitor, keyboard & mouse. By the time you finish it's much more expensive. A Laptop seems like a better deal since it already has a monitor, keyboard & trackpad/trackpoint. As much as I like these, I can't cost justify it. What am I missing here?
These often come (even at sub $300) with keyboards can mice. They often have higher-TDP CPUs so are faster (35w v. 15W U series.) No Lithium battery to worry about. Often people are using these with existing monitors, TVs, or as remotely accessed nodes with a fairly solid set of I/O including wired networking.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I guess you have a point and I agree with you but I've never been able to find a combo like you mention at sub $300. Prices seem to jump as soon as the deal is noticed. I don't have time or patience to wait and watch for those deals. Sometimes its easier just to find a $2-300 laptop and be done with it.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo have you tried it? Because the pro can do it and even the non pros are able to but not validated... I have a few system that say it doesn't work but if you do insert ecc ram they work fine.
I’m looking to get a new M90q config. How do you ensure the build you order from Lenovo comes with two M.2 slots? I’ll probably get one with the base 128GB and 4GB as I have the spare parts to spec it up after.
Ryzen 5000 series is not out yet for this segment. The mobile SKUs just launched this week www.servethehome.com/amd-ryzen-pro-5000-series-mobile-launch/
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I guess my perception is warped then due to zen 3 being around for some while. But what is the difference for this 1 liter segment? I thought the CPUs where the same as the mobile CPUs for laptops? Maybe you can explain that in a video.
I'm curious to your background? What kind of wood is that Apple: how on earth they make this mini pc upgradable? I must tell tesla to make a car that the tire soldered to car,
You can drive three displays, but you need the optional slot(s) configured. This may help psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkCentre/ThinkCentre_M75q_Gen_2/ThinkCentre_M75q_Gen_2_Spec.PDF
@@50MT4 I think not, for your one, seems 01AJ9131 or 01AJ914. Do your search, using the method I mentioned , i.e., m720q support, click parts, then the type from drop-down category. You can also call Lenovo for parts help or get confirmation for your own search result. RUclips won't let me post url
I find the GPU performance important. I'd love to see how this compares to Intel's offering. As I understand it, AMD certainly lags far behind Intel Xe but I am not sure how it compares to 10 gen core GPUs.
There is possibly a reason for usb 2.0. Some of older printers go crazy and refuse to work with usb 3.0+
@Tano A lot of these incompatibilities are actually a direct cause of the C language refusing to keep up with the times. It leads to programmers bit banging protocols and making their own interfaces which are very rigid instead of using dynamic programming methods.
With a more dynamic system a data stream is a data stream and where it comes from doesn't matter, but when a programmer only programs an interface for a specific set of protocols/circumstances any change causes issues. That is why on the net things are much more compatible and portable.
C is the worst when it comes to these problems because it is so limited that developers will even make their own memory allocators. C++ at least somewhat keeps up with progress, so you see a lot less of it. Python is in my opinion the most popular system language that benefits from this progress. Sadly PIP is such a terrible mess that it gives node/npm competition.
Having multiple sets of the same python libraries for each version and environment is a huge waste of space and when a bad configuration system that uses CMD prompts and a current working directory to control where things are installed it is a recipe for disaster. When installing FreeCAD plugins were trying to install into the wrong repository and into locations which were write-protected by Win10 and since I have over 10 Python installs (2.7, 3.6, 3.7, 3.8 and 3.9) for compatibility reasons, it cost me DAYS to get the mess sorted out.
Not only should everything be installed in one repo, versioning should use subdirectories inside a libs own folder. That would keep things tidy and easily found.
This rant is getting long, but I hope that in the future we get a fix for this idiocy because NodeJS/JS has destroyed the web development industry while System programming keeps getting more and more languages that each fix half the issues while introducing more of their own. Unless they gain acceptance like C has or compile down to Assembly they are not a fix at all and just create a more fractured ecosystem and of time.
@@excitedbox5705 Why is it a problem of the C language specifically? I am fine with it being left not 'modernized', in that it is a simple, easy to understand and does not do millions of abstractions for you, it does not hide away things, it makes you aware, makes you understand top to bottom. Indeed, maybe it is for people interested in doing the job properly, not half baked. With C, you have few things built-in, you learn the basics very well, which does not take you ages, because the base is tiny compared with other languages, and you are good to go. It makes you responsible, it makes you use your brain, it makes you improve yourself. With this responsibility comes great reward when you manage it properly. With a bunch of other languages, they have so many things that it is impossible for a novice to start writing and write proper code at the same time. Eventually you get tired, don't understand the purpose of a lot of stuff and misuse it because you do not know it well. But anyway, from your reply, I don't get any actual example of why C is bad... why coding your own stuff is specifically bad? C supports libraries just fine, just like C++ does, you can't tell me people build 'memory allocators' when working in C because they do not have a 'new' keyword like in C++. So, again, C is bad because some people do not know how to include and link a library, while in Python or whatever high level thing you mention some agent does it automatically behind the scenes for you, so that 90% of new users do not even know how it works? I don't think those types of guys write the software side of the USB stacks on printers and motherboards, though. People that do serious stuff choose C because it is friendly enough for a human, yet very close to how the machine actually works, which benefits in a lot of scenarios. You're not coding on a hypothetical Turing machine, you are coding on a real one, where computer science theories like O complexities matter, of course, but there are a ton of other things like L caches, certain instructions performing better, scheduling choices, interrupts and many more...
It’s not just printers. Some wireless mice don’t play nice with USB 3.x either. My Razer Atheris is one such example. USB 3.x results in erratic performance, where 2.0 and BT work just fine.
Should still be all USB 3.0 ports on the machine. In the extreme niche case where you have a machine that won’t work on USB 3.0 use a USB 2.0 extension cable to force it to work.
You got 8 physical cores with 16 threads on a 35w chip? AMD is absolutely amazing!
you can get that with 15-25 watts
@@JasperSchwinghammer where?
@@denispalt9184 AMD 4000U and 5000U series are both 15W chips with up to 8 cores.
@@GeoStreber right :) i pref my 4350G though :) 35W are fine and base clock is higher 4000U should be amazing in laptops
Well then Apple's M1 is even way way more amazeballs.
I don't like the new design. Missing the ThinkPad red Mark. But I guess we'll have to get used to it.
It looks like a mini PS2 with that new design
One of the best designs of all time, i love the design of almost every gadget who is styled like the ps2
I can live with USB2 and Realtek NICs as long as I have the PCI-E riser - which unfortunately got removed here. Personally that's the biggest bummer. Probably sticking to M920q or P330/340s for now.
I upgraded from a B150 platform with 1G NIC to a B550 board with 2.5G NIC (both from realtek) and the new one stops working at least daily, so there's something to sticking with proven components.
E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G, literally everything I bother to even Google these days is either not available, either out of stock. Complain about the economy going downhill, every non tech person around me says "are you crazy, have you seen the amount of cars on the roads?" Ofc people are on the roads, if they cannot have computers and GPUs and tech stuff to keep them busy and inside, they have to compromise and get outside... Nice product, I will probably get it by the time the next version is obsolete.
We're buying new laptops, new MacMini's and new Lenovo Tiny's with 24 hour turnaround. We work with CDW and they keep a healthy amount in stock so we're promised quick shipping. You really need to find better suppliers. We're having zero issues standardizing builds and having them shipped quickly. No clue where you're trying to buy from. Our pricing has been better than what we've found on Amazon so we're happy there as well.
@@lexwaldez Idk, I am not from the US, I am from Europe. The situation is indeed even shittier here. I mean, as usual, if it were good, they wouldn’t have left looking to get to India...
I've been waiting for this great review for a while. I got mine finally(after pestering you about how cheap i paid for it, for about 5 weeks), custom configured from lenovo's website $530(using 45% off coupon) with 4750GE, 4GB RAM, 500GB WD HDD, WIFI 6 Win10Pro, and an extra USB-C port
For $120 i added a 500GB Samsung 970 evo+ and 16GB of RAM. Seems to work as 8GB dual channel and 12GB of single channel though i dont know how to test that other than saying "yep, integrated graphics seem faster". I ended up ordering a second matching 16GB sodimm as i could use that 4GB module elsewhere so if it improves further i'll know that it wasnt in dual channel
This little thing is faster, and more efficient at handbrake x265 software encoding than my M1 Mac Mini(as long as i dont allow the 4750GE to turbo). I'm hoping this comes down to handbrake for ARM still being in beta, though it is possible that Apple is just leaning too heavily on ASICs, dont get me wrong the VideoToolbox ASIC is fast, but the file sizes are significantly larger than using the CPU. A little dissapointing seeing i bought the M1 Mini to dedicate to x265 software transcoding
What i think is VERY interesting is that there seems to be traces, and places for pins, for a PCIe 8x slot, now this wont be for a customer provided card, but it might be for say a workstation version with a dedicated GPU much like the M920x or Thinkstation P330/340 tiny
The ~$530 version is the one that Lenovo canceled. I had the 128GB SSD and a dust cover so it was a bit more but otherwise the same.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo The first one i ordered was canceled, but it worked the second time i ordered(took about 3 weeks to show the first unit had been canceled) My co-worker ordered the same thing but without USB-C and didnt have issues. CDWG has the thing listed as EOL for some reason. But has, as far as i can tell, an identical one that still shows as backordered. I wonder if there wasnt an issue with some part on the motherboard, as all of the listed parts are exactly the same model, from the RAM, and WD hard drive, to the intel WiFi
@@denvera1g1 Almost as though there is a supply chain disruption/ supply constraint somewhere :-)
how is the fan noise? does it switch off completely during light tasks? How soon does it kick in? Do you have any coil whine?
Would be super helpful :)
@@simonb.979 The fan can get loud, i dont have a DB meter but think a bit more quiet than a gaming laptop with nvidia XX60 class card. The fan does not shut off completely for me, but that might because i have it inside of a monitor(barely audible while browsing youtube if you stick your ear up next to the monitor's exhaust). If you dont want it to get loud under full load keep it at 3Ghz it should be nice and quiet. I havent noticed any coil wine but i'm using the 90w adapter that came with the monitor
I still see issues with input devices being plugged into USB 3.x ports while USB 2.0 work is just fine. This is especially true with mice and keyboards during boot/bios/UEFI. Also, USB 2.0 takes up a lot fewer PCIe lanes than USB 3.x. I do think this device should have them, but on the front, not the back for your standard mouse and keyboard for a productivity desktop.
The USB 2 ports are for your peripherals.... mouse and keyboard. No need for those to be 3.0's.
If you can pick these things up cheap enough on the secondary market, then these things would make for fantastic little ESXi nodes for a stealth home lab. Throw the max RAM configuration into it (I'm guessing 64GB) and call it a day.
If you decide to change the m.2, a dual sided will fit, but will slightly flex against the pads.
At this point, I basically avoid anything that isn't an Intel NIC onboard. I had a few Dell 3080's with Realtek NICs and I couldn't get ESXi 7.0 to install at all, even after making a custom ISO with fling drivers and a known working USB 3.0 to Gigabit NIC adapter attached. It's a shame, that processor has great potential for a small node.
Article about orchestration with AMD DASH/Intel AMT or with some KVMoIP devices would be really great addition to these "tiny-mini-micro" series. I bet many watchers dream about clustering those devices in their small homelabs.
Have you tested the Lenovo Tiny with the Tiny-in-One monitor? Super clean desktop when space is at premium.
I actually have that setup mounted on trussing to control the studio.
The new chassis design is reminiscent of something out of the early 90s like Leading Edge or Digital
Same thing happened to me. I ordered the 4750ge version with 4gb ram from lenovo's site, then after about three weeks of waiting I randomly login and find my order was cancelled. They didn't even send an email about it. Even bought 32gb sodimm's for the thing. Their support chat told me they ran out of some part they needed but couldn't tell me which, so I went back to their configurator and it let me put in another order for the exact same configuration. Lenovo you jackasses what are you even doing.
i wish lenovo didnt leave those connectors off really annoying for upgrading
Would you order the Lenovo M90Q (i7, 16 GB) or the M75q Gen2 AMD?
If price is equal, M90q Gen2. The M75q Gen2 has been hard to find so prices have been higher. We will talk about it in the next week or two when we have the piece on the M75q Gen2 with the Ryzen 5000 series
The USB 2.0 ports might be there for compatibility. I know, in 2021 it might not make too much sense. But consider how long COM ports and PS/2 ports stuck around...
COM(Serial) ports ARE STILL around. Though they are just usually headers on a motherboard now.
Would it be possible to solder the unpopulated M2 and full size PCIE?? the holes are there, looks like anyone with a hot air rework station could to it. The only thing that might stop it is a BIOS that wont recognize them.
I don't get the complaint about the USB2 ports. I mean--everyone plugs in a keyboard and a mouse, right? Why pay for those to be USB3 ports?
I kind of am in the same league ok with 1or 2 usb2 ports. But what I do not like in this model is on the back, one of the 2 usb3 port is specially for keyboard use. Only hooking to that port you can power on using keyboard. So you either lose one usb3 port to lowly keyboard use or lose keyboard power on feature. There are also 2 usb2 ports on the back. Why not dedicate a usb2 port for keyboard power on feature. Such feature has been existed since before usb3 came into being . Sine Lenovo enables this pc be mounted and hide on the back of a monitor, using keyboard to power on is important as the pc power button can be hard to reach.
It would have been nice to see the testing result differences between single and dual channel RAM in that system. Bummed out we didn't get that :(
I know I'm late but: watch?v=1PGveFN4AkU
@@AndrewStrydomBRP So does one just purchase two dual rank SODIMMs to get the performance of dual rank? Is the motherboard compatible with both single and dual rank?
@@MicheIIePucca If you install dual channel memory then you will get dual channel performance, make sure the sticks both match sizes.
I cannot tell you much else since I don't have this but i recall it does support dua channel from watching that video 4 months back.
Just a simple question, is heat still a problem with AMD CPU?
35W TDP CPUs are not so bad heat wise for AMD.
You call out, the review of the NUC 11 Pro. I'm highly interested, because I think about to replace my Thinkpad W520 i7qm with one, because I want to connect 3x 1440p displays + my Sonnet TB3 10G SFP Adapter. Reason for going away from the laptop is the need for "newer" gpu, more (16gb+x) and faster networking. The Quadro 1000m already have problems with 720p in fullscreen and last time out of the docking station is ~14 months.
USB2 is indeed bizarre but (despite the marginal BOM cost) I can't imagine the primary customer base for these machines clamouring for 2.5GE
At some point the technology transition needs to happen though. With WiFi 6, wired connections need to get faster to keep pace with WiFi speed increases.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo in practical conditions wifi 6 still rarely beats gigabit ethernet
@@tommihommi1 Totally true, with WiFi 6e that will be more common though. Years ago wired was the much faster and more reliable option. It still is, but 2.5GbE helps maintain the advantages over wireless.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo 10Gbit ethernet FTW
The tool less is nice but consider the number of time one will be accessing the insides, not really a major issue.
Depends on whether you have 1, or 1000.
Usb2 would be just fine for keyboards and mice
They discontinued the product already. I have no idea why.
Production cannot catchup with demand, and the next generation ryzen being released.
Looks like they stopped selling this model w/ that cpu combo
we need a standard for external pci-e to make a jab at thunderbolt. kinda like those asus laptops that have a custom external pci-e gen4 x8 connector for lossless egpu unit with desktop level rtx-3060ti. that beats the maxq and close to maxp mobile rtx=3070 even because the only difference is pci-e gen4 x8 from desktop rtx-3060ti. if a strait external pci-e gen4 x3 connector was made that would beat thunderbolt 4 and why not just pci-e gen4 x4 to match what nvme ssds use!
Glad to finally see reviews of the 4000 series. We're on the 5k series now though and they're even further our in performance.
My 4900hs is on par with my desktop 2700x yet uses a quarter of the power or less.
Being 100% for performance per watt I can't wait for these 8c/16t 4000/5000 series to drop in price specially adding in more sata/nvme to make it more home server friendly
Side note, anyone got a recommendation for a nvme to 2-4 sata converter?
In this segment, these are still the current gen. 5000 series Zen 3 is currently for desktops. I expect that to change soon, but we cannot review products that are not yet released for the 1L segment.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo of course and if this certainly not a jab at you guys
It's mostly I'm hoping for a time when laptop parts and apus get same gen releases. Also looking to having more laptop apus in these sub 1L boxes. Like I said I'm a power saving junkie 😅
@@ServeTheHomeVideo hey Patrick, the m75q gen2 is available with a zen3 5650ge at the same price as the zen2 4750ge. Interested in doing a test? I have one you can borrow.
@@siriusroadster Hey David, thanks for the kind offer. We are 100% swamped between now and Christmas. I may order one and see if I can play with it over the break
Lenovo 👍😍👍😍🤗
14:00 - With the previous Gen 1 version, it was mentioned (in the Lenovo forums) that if you upgrade to/obtain the 135w power adapter, the system would detect and increase the performance. Any chance you might be able to get the 135w power brick to try it out with the Gen 2 version?
We certainly have those. I can try but probably after the Milan/ Ice launches. We have the 135W bricks from other systems.
A question to anyone who owns this unit - is it loud? I noticed the SFF version of the m75q has the TUV Low Noise Certificate - how about the Tiny version?
Is ECC RAM a Thing on these? The AMD Pro CPUs should support it?
The CPU supports it. I have a Ryzen PRO 4650G on a cheap ass 70€ ASUS TUF A520M-PLUS running with 2x 16GB Samsung DDR4-2666 Unbuffered ECC RAM. I have validated error reporting using mild overclock under Linux (Kernel 5.8), so you get notified via OS, whenever a corrected / uncorrectable error occurs. However, the mainboard needs to support it aswell. And I can't answer that for this Lenovo system. Either way: if you're your own boss or in home use scenarios, going down this route is fine. If you have a job to lose, or this is for mission critical stuff, look for something else.
Not ECC, but if the RAM claims can run @ 3200 but only when on 1.35v, not 1.2 v (such as Crucial ballistic 3200), then the RAM will only run at 2666. The BIOS has no setting to raise the ram slot voltage above 1.2
I wonder if you could get a system like this with Thunderbolt 3 for eGPU support.
Could make a nice, small workstation.
The intel Mac mini would work, RAM is upgradable so I would just upgrade CPU and/or SSD and then upgrade ram for cheap.
I can't think of any other common machines this size with TB3, there should be more, so nice to have a PCIe 4x interface in a USB-C connector.
The tinies of the 3rd generation can get a Thunderbolt PCI Card. (So M720q, M920q, P330, P340)
@Tano The M720q, M920q and P330 P340 have a small (8x iirc) PCI slot. FRU 01AJ929 if you want to look it up.
Tried ECC on this exact machine - doesn't work - would be awesome if Lenovo would enable ECC
It is going to have to be a push from customers in this segment to make it happen.
Maybe you have ECC Bufferred model. You might need ECC Unbufferred
@@muhammadsalman7714 Nope - Unbuffered for sure! Works fine in my Synology devices
Could be a very nice box for an ESXI cluster wtih some VMs on it including pfsense. Pity it's not available and the pci-e riser or the pci-e cover is impossible to get anywhere.
Watch out for the realtek nics :)
Took me a couple of minutes on my asrock deskmini x300 with proxmox
The 19” rack option is a bit nuts at $400 of a shelf. Why would anyone pay that?
Great Video... Can we replace the punch out ports?
I'm probably going to get this when it's back in stock.
Why can't I get a micro ATX system with an x16 slot for a video card that idles at 7 watts? I'm sure it's possible so why won't someone design the dang thing! People always dis power consumption. Electricity doesn't cost much but it adds up and is wasteful. And more and more people are moving to solar at home. Space heaters are not cool if you don't need them.
How about an asymmetric dual socketed CPU board? One power efficient chip(you choose) and another built for speed(you choose). Turn the 2nd CPU on and off as needed. Have some sort of displayport pass-through for the video card and turn the power on it all the way on or completely off to the video card. If the video card can boot in 20 seconds that would be acceptable.
Does it have a TPM 2.0 Modul?
OK, I really like these mini micro PC's but even if you get a good deal ($200 or less) you still need a monitor, keyboard & mouse. By the time you finish it's much more expensive. A Laptop seems like a better deal since it already has a monitor, keyboard & trackpad/trackpoint. As much as I like these, I can't cost justify it. What am I missing here?
These often come (even at sub $300) with keyboards can mice. They often have higher-TDP CPUs so are faster (35w v. 15W U series.) No Lithium battery to worry about. Often people are using these with existing monitors, TVs, or as remotely accessed nodes with a fairly solid set of I/O including wired networking.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I guess you have a point and I agree with you but I've never been able to find a combo like you mention at sub $300. Prices seem to jump as soon as the deal is noticed. I don't have time or patience to wait and watch for those deals. Sometimes its easier just to find a $2-300 laptop and be done with it.
A better form factor for the 10 ft interface. My smarter TV beat up your fire stick.
@@DotThei 🤣
Interesting your 512GB M.2 NVME is Crucial SN630. My one is Samsung MZVLB512HBJQ, not know Lenovo changes parts as often.
This is a WD SN730 which is the same as we have seen in a few units such as the m90n Nano
Those doors need a good dusting. Good review though
You totally glossed over the rack mount. What kind is that? Where can I find it?
Test ecc ram please ? The ryzen 7 should be abple to do this. In pro cpus its officially validated
Not in the platform though.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo have you tried it? Because the pro can do it and even the non pros are able to but not validated...
I have a few system that say it doesn't work but if you do insert ecc ram they work fine.
The weakest link on most of AMD systems are the NIC, then M.2 options, then, yes, USB options....
theoretically these chips have just as much PCIe as the intel counterpart. Lenovo just chose not to populate the second m.2 slot
What dell optiplex micro is comparable to this one?
Dell's Intel-only stance in the segment means only the HP 805 Mini line is comparable to what Lenovo has here.
How about remote monitoring and managment, did you try DASH?
I’m looking to get a new M90q config. How do you ensure the build you order from Lenovo comes with two M.2 slots? I’ll probably get one with the base 128GB and 4GB as I have the spare parts to spec it up after.
is there a link for video for Project Mini Micro running pfsense?
No video on that one. Nich has a guide on the STH main site linked in the description
Aaaaand not available anywhere. I could only get the R5 4650GE Version for 620 € ... WTF😂😂😂
I think a single USB 2 port would be good for legacy reasons.
requesting asrock industrial 4x4 4800u review
question i have it is just a console control or a POS terminal
I think that it is strictly one per person.
Does it work with ESXI Vsphere. Would be cool if you could run VM''s on it.
Anyone else gone inside the rear before, its my first time opening it up and I'm a little worried
It`s made for gaming and you buy to edit photo.
why does it need a wifi antenna?
I think it is to get a better WiFi signal. Actually somewhat cool since you can put a huge directional antenna if you wanted to
Please let me know if this works on 220V, I need to take one to South America :(
These use Lenovo notebook adapters so the bigger issue is that you need to have the correct plug. Still, easy to get something that works.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Thank you! If it is a laptop power brick, it would most likely be dual 110-220 V I assume
Shouldn't that thing have a 5000 series ryzen 3 by now? Shouldn't be any different from the rest of the hardware.
Ryzen 5000 series is not out yet for this segment. The mobile SKUs just launched this week www.servethehome.com/amd-ryzen-pro-5000-series-mobile-launch/
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I guess my perception is warped then due to zen 3 being around for some while. But what is the difference for this 1 liter segment? I thought the CPUs where the same as the mobile CPUs for laptops? Maybe you can explain that in a video.
I'm curious to your background? What kind of wood is that
Apple: how on earth they make this mini pc upgradable? I must tell tesla to make a car that the tire soldered to car,
So how many monitors can I display on with this?
I need three with 4k UHD (3840 × 2160 ) or maybe QHD (2560x1440) minimum.
You can drive three displays, but you need the optional slot(s) configured. This may help psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkCentre/ThinkCentre_M75q_Gen_2/ThinkCentre_M75q_Gen_2_Spec.PDF
How can I add on a usb-c port to the expansion slots in the rear? I can’t find it anywhere on the web.
I am not sure of the part number, but it is in the configurator.
Search Lenovo 5C50W31953. Or, from Lenovo m75q gen 2 support page parts section, choose "cards misc internal" type
@@finallyOK thank you so much for your reply! Is it possible to us it in the M720q model as that is the model I have.
@@50MT4 I think not, for your one, seems 01AJ9131 or 01AJ914. Do your search, using the method I mentioned , i.e., m720q support, click parts, then the type from drop-down category. You can also call Lenovo for parts help or get confirmation for your own search result. RUclips won't let me post url
@@50MT4 01AJ950 if you mean adding a usbc to the punch out port
please can it run QHD on 144Hz?
Not even a single PCIe slot ... 😂😂🤣🤣
M.2 is technically PCIe :-)
I find the GPU performance important. I'd love to see how this compares to Intel's offering. As I understand it, AMD certainly lags far behind Intel Xe but I am not sure how it compares to 10 gen core GPUs.
This 4750ge is the most powerful APU currently. It’s far far ahead of any generations of intel GPU
Subtitles?
Still have to wait for YT to add them.
who cares about a screw in the rear...
Get you mind out of the gutter