I think it's closer to say that grind came from both crust punk AND metal (since Napalm Death, Carcass all had their roots in the former but drew heavily on the latter) whereas Powerviolence came more from hardcore...and grind of course, since that was already around haha. But great vid anyway. That Insect Warfare riff is indeed sick.
Fair enough,thx for that! You are right, of course; there are so many nuances to each genre. Personally, I think that "genres" are a pretty dull concept in the first place, and I really don't like it when people create bands with the intent of sounding like a certain period of punk in a certain area-that's pretty uncreative. From my experience, genre designations make sense in hindsight, e.g., even a small town can have its own style of music. It's pretty awesome to see such things in person.. yep, and it's still happening in 2024. Sometimes we focus too much on the dinosaurs; that's why I included the band MARTØ from France. Over there, you can see an awesome development of grind and PV: Lovve, Jodie Faster, Whorse Nation, Warfuck, Failure (i guess they are from Italy though)... you name it. Basically, the Lixiviat-Crew! Czech had a similar "scene" at some point. I love such things! :) Cheers
@@diydylana3151 Good points. It's worth mention that Side A and Side B also had major lineup changes due to a) artistic/interpersonal differences and b) they were just goddamn teenagers at the time, a fact everyone forgets because they made such an impact But I still love the story that Napalm Death's sonic palette was expanded by postpunk and proto-industrial influences because their girlfriends were making them listen to Joy Division and Killing Joke
@@themeaningsoflivesasacat I like genres just for the fact that stating the genre of a band already had similar references due to other bands in the genre. So if I told someone to check out Catheter, they're a great grindcore band, they're not going to expect a death metal, D-beat , or NSync cover band. Or if some one asks me to recommend some power violence bands and another asks for fastcore recommendation, I can do that. But don't ask me to define the difference between PV and fastcore. Or if I say check out these fast, hardcore bands Capitalist Casualties, Spazz, Hellnation, Slight Slappers, Siege, Larm, Insult(Boston), Dropdead, DRI, Cryptic Slaughter, Mob 47, Genocide SS, Ringworm, Driller Killer, Lorna Shore. That would be confusing for a noob. But if I break it down by genre, people will gravitate to what they like. Power Violence: Capitalist Casualties, Spazz, Hellnation, Slight Slappers Fastcore: Siege, Larm, Insult(Boston), Dropdead Crossover: DRI, Cryptic Slaughter or can say Cryptic Slaughter is punk thrash Mob 47 early stuff was kinda like fastcore UK82 style but later added more of a crust influence. Genocide SS is a crusty punk band or even a Crust N Roll band Ringworm, great holly terror style band Driller Killer are a crusty D-Beat band with more of a thrash influence than a lot of their peers. Lorna Shore, blackened deathcore Someone wants a goregrind recommendation I can tell them check out Suicide Silence. They're a deathcore band but they will probably like them. A holy terror band like Gehenna (California) might be a stretch for a goregrind adjacent band. But, may be a reasonable recommendation for someone who is a Suicide Silence fan. Meanwhile your old school hardcore gezeers, NYHC and metalcore mosh pit kickboxer millennials are messaging their friends on facebook asking if they knew there were other genres of hardcore. While the rest of the world asserts it all sounds the same.
Not sure how old you are but I recall thrashcore as another term a lot of powerviolence bands got lumped under back when Charles Bronson and Nasum were active; but also that the boundaries between thrashcore and grindcore were ill-defined and that powerviolence was often applied to a lot of bands that were on the boundary. PV was usually more frantic, kinda like they were mixing in Mohinder and Angel Hair elements and less metal influences, but they weren't as intentionally arty as the bands with Spock haircuts. Magrudergrind blurred the boundaries further when they started releasing stuff and nowadays there's all sorts bands that mix the more metallic elements with the more chaotic punky elements. Benumb stayed punky without becoming PV. There's kind of a whole glut of '90s hardcore that isn't crust, isn't emo, isn't metalcore but combines heaviness and frantic chaotic vibes.
In Austria (or Europe, I guess) we used to call everything fastcore - no matter if it was emo, screamo, pv and so on. I did not know the term powerviolence until I heard Magruder. My metal friends did not like fastcore too much; Napalm Death was consent. haha Thanks for input!
@@themeaningsoflivesasacat It's interesting how regional things used to be, and how that made local scenes less prone to embracing microgenres. A cluster of very different sounding bands might all just call themselves punk or hardcore. Now we'd be more likely to insist on placing them into different microgenres. Thanks for the great content as always.
Generally I've seen Thrashcore used as a kind of "in-between" for Hardcore and Powerviolence, particularly as "Hardcore" got increasingly metal-damaged in the 90's and started to be more known for chuggy metallic riffs rather than just extreme speed power-chording. Thrashcore is like early DRI and other shit that's really fast punk but doesn't quite have the slow parts and stop-start PV tricks (hence why it gets applied to bands like Charles Bronson, who never really had slow parts the same way Man is the Bastard or Spazz did).
but. grindocore didnt emerge from metal. Napalm Death started as a crust punk band and a large part of early grind came from punk scenes. I feel a better wording would be that Grindcore has stronger metal influences while PV is strictly just punk.
One could argue, that early crust punk/grind emerged from early metal AND punk. Concrete Sox, Repulsion, Nasum, Electro Hippies (in a way) and so on. Nothing is bipolar. :) But yeah, you're right!
I totally agree. Actually, Grindcore has punk roots blended with death metal, whereas Powerviolence originated from punk with thrash metal, hardcore, and crossover influences.
Well, despite the fact that Crust Punk contains the word 'punk,' this genre is more prone to metal than to punk. I would say Crust Punk is basically a metal genre with punk influences
This is all highly academic, but I do agree that Powerviolence is more punk in nature and Grind is ever so slightly more metal I do recall someone saying their rationale for their PV band was to be more metal than metal without any of the macho limitations. None of the dress code etc. That said, PV has its own dress code and macho bullshit now, so look how that worked out Side note: nearly 25 years ago I remember seeing an Australian 'emoviolence' band close out the set of incredibly right-on songs with a note perfect cover of Slayer's Raining Blood
Yeah the riffs and the guitar tones are the main difference besides vocals, and I mean those at 1:09, grindcore doesn't have those, and if it does, then it's grindviolence lol. But yeah, it's all hardcore at the end of the day, I just love categorizing shit
Early grindcore had three legs to stand on: 1) extremely fast hardcore aka fastcore/thrashcore (early D.R.I, Siege, Negative FX, Heresy, Larm, Neos, etc...) - for the speed, 2) crust punk aka Amebix, Antisect, Hellbastard - for the raw, foul, heavy sounding guitars and slower, sludgy/groovy mid tempo parts and 3) early extreme metal aka Hellhammer/Celtic Frost, Bathory, Venom, Possessed and more extreme ends of thrash metal - for the metallic sounding riffs and more developed playing style. Those were the ingredients and still are for the most part, except for the fact that all of those elements are now either incorporated in style itself or went further since then. For the people not too much into grindcore the easiest description I would use to avoid confusion: imagine hardcore punk played by death metalheads with severe negligence for musicality :) or vice versa, hardcore punks playing death metal at extreme pace with rawer, aggressive edge.
1:09 I always loved this quirk of Powerviolence, the "angry coach" vocals
hahaha right on!
Gorilla voice
listen to Chulo Grind
I think it's closer to say that grind came from both crust punk AND metal (since Napalm Death, Carcass all had their roots in the former but drew heavily on the latter) whereas Powerviolence came more from hardcore...and grind of course, since that was already around haha. But great vid anyway. That Insect Warfare riff is indeed sick.
Fair enough,thx for that!
You are right, of course; there are so many nuances to each genre. Personally, I think that "genres" are a pretty dull concept in the first place, and I really don't like it when people create bands with the intent of sounding like a certain period of punk in a certain area-that's pretty uncreative. From my experience, genre designations make sense in hindsight, e.g., even a small town can have its own style of music. It's pretty awesome to see such things in person.. yep, and it's still happening in 2024. Sometimes we focus too much on the dinosaurs; that's why I included the band MARTØ from France. Over there, you can see an awesome development of grind and PV: Lovve, Jodie Faster, Whorse Nation, Warfuck, Failure (i guess they are from Italy though)... you name it. Basically, the Lixiviat-Crew!
Czech had a similar "scene" at some point. I love such things! :)
Cheers
@@diydylana3151 Really interesting thoughts! Thx
@@diydylana3151 Good points. It's worth mention that Side A and Side B also had major lineup changes due to a) artistic/interpersonal differences and b) they were just goddamn teenagers at the time, a fact everyone forgets because they made such an impact
But I still love the story that Napalm Death's sonic palette was expanded by postpunk and proto-industrial influences because their girlfriends were making them listen to Joy Division and Killing Joke
@@themeaningsoflivesasacat I like genres just for the fact that stating the genre of a band already had similar references due to other bands in the genre. So if I told someone to check out Catheter, they're a great grindcore band, they're not going to expect a death metal, D-beat , or NSync cover band.
Or if some one asks me to recommend some power violence bands and another asks for fastcore recommendation, I can do that. But don't ask me to define the difference between PV and fastcore.
Or if I say check out these fast, hardcore bands Capitalist Casualties, Spazz, Hellnation, Slight Slappers, Siege, Larm, Insult(Boston), Dropdead, DRI, Cryptic Slaughter, Mob 47, Genocide SS, Ringworm, Driller Killer, Lorna Shore. That would be confusing for a noob. But if I break it down by genre, people will gravitate to what they like.
Power Violence: Capitalist Casualties, Spazz, Hellnation, Slight Slappers
Fastcore: Siege, Larm, Insult(Boston), Dropdead
Crossover: DRI, Cryptic Slaughter or can say Cryptic Slaughter is punk thrash
Mob 47 early stuff was kinda like fastcore UK82 style but later added more of a crust influence.
Genocide SS is a crusty punk band or even a Crust N Roll band
Ringworm, great holly terror style band
Driller Killer are a crusty D-Beat band with more of a thrash influence than a lot of their peers.
Lorna Shore, blackened deathcore
Someone wants a goregrind recommendation I can tell them check out Suicide Silence. They're a deathcore band but they will probably like them. A holy terror band like Gehenna (California) might be a stretch for a goregrind adjacent band. But, may be a reasonable recommendation for someone who is a Suicide Silence fan.
Meanwhile your old school hardcore gezeers, NYHC and metalcore mosh pit kickboxer millennials are messaging their friends on facebook asking if they knew there were other genres of hardcore. While the rest of the world asserts it all sounds the same.
Not sure how old you are but I recall thrashcore as another term a lot of powerviolence bands got lumped under back when Charles Bronson and Nasum were active; but also that the boundaries between thrashcore and grindcore were ill-defined and that powerviolence was often applied to a lot of bands that were on the boundary. PV was usually more frantic, kinda like they were mixing in Mohinder and Angel Hair elements and less metal influences, but they weren't as intentionally arty as the bands with Spock haircuts.
Magrudergrind blurred the boundaries further when they started releasing stuff and nowadays there's all sorts bands that mix the more metallic elements with the more chaotic punky elements. Benumb stayed punky without becoming PV.
There's kind of a whole glut of '90s hardcore that isn't crust, isn't emo, isn't metalcore but combines heaviness and frantic chaotic vibes.
In Austria (or Europe, I guess) we used to call everything fastcore - no matter if it was emo, screamo, pv and so on. I did not know the term powerviolence until I heard Magruder. My metal friends did not like fastcore too much; Napalm Death was consent. haha
Thanks for input!
@@themeaningsoflivesasacat It's interesting how regional things used to be, and how that made local scenes less prone to embracing microgenres. A cluster of very different sounding bands might all just call themselves punk or hardcore. Now we'd be more likely to insist on placing them into different microgenres.
Thanks for the great content as always.
Generally I've seen Thrashcore used as a kind of "in-between" for Hardcore and Powerviolence, particularly as "Hardcore" got increasingly metal-damaged in the 90's and started to be more known for chuggy metallic riffs rather than just extreme speed power-chording. Thrashcore is like early DRI and other shit that's really fast punk but doesn't quite have the slow parts and stop-start PV tricks (hence why it gets applied to bands like Charles Bronson, who never really had slow parts the same way Man is the Bastard or Spazz did).
Just stoked you mention Benumb. Got to share the stage with them
@@joewhitehouseiv3300 Benumb are S-tier. I'm jealous you got to share a stage with them.
Splendid video. I would also add that pv is known for having sludgy parts, especially later pv
but. grindocore didnt emerge from metal. Napalm Death started as a crust punk band and a large part of early grind came from punk scenes. I feel a better wording would be that Grindcore has stronger metal influences while PV is strictly just punk.
One could argue, that early crust punk/grind emerged from early metal AND punk. Concrete Sox, Repulsion, Nasum, Electro Hippies (in a way) and so on. Nothing is bipolar. :)
But yeah, you're right!
I totally agree. Actually, Grindcore has punk roots blended with death metal, whereas Powerviolence originated from punk with thrash metal, hardcore, and crossover influences.
Well, despite the fact that Crust Punk contains the word 'punk,' this genre is more prone to metal than to punk. I would say Crust Punk is basically a metal genre with punk influences
Both grindcore and powerviolence are punk rock.
wow such a helpful video! you are my favorite music youtuber right now!
This is all highly academic, but I do agree that Powerviolence is more punk in nature and Grind is ever so slightly more metal
I do recall someone saying their rationale for their PV band was to be more metal than metal without any of the macho limitations. None of the dress code etc. That said, PV has its own dress code and macho bullshit now, so look how that worked out
Side note: nearly 25 years ago I remember seeing an Australian 'emoviolence' band close out the set of incredibly right-on songs with a note perfect cover of Slayer's Raining Blood
2:12 and that's why i FUCKEN love them
Great video 🤟🏻
I love how the diversity of these genres come together eventually regarless of politics. Its powerful af. I love both genres. Good video CHEERS
well, nice info. Thank you!
Yeah the riffs and the guitar tones are the main difference besides vocals, and I mean those at 1:09, grindcore doesn't have those, and if it does, then it's grindviolence lol. But yeah, it's all hardcore at the end of the day, I just love categorizing shit
Powerviolence have hardcore punk roots. Grindcore have crust punk roots.
Early grindcore had three legs to stand on: 1) extremely fast hardcore aka fastcore/thrashcore (early D.R.I, Siege, Negative FX, Heresy, Larm, Neos, etc...) - for the speed, 2) crust punk aka Amebix, Antisect, Hellbastard - for the raw, foul, heavy sounding guitars and slower, sludgy/groovy mid tempo parts and 3) early extreme metal aka Hellhammer/Celtic Frost, Bathory, Venom, Possessed and more extreme ends of thrash metal - for the metallic sounding riffs and more developed playing style. Those were the ingredients and still are for the most part, except for the fact that all of those elements are now either incorporated in style itself or went further since then.
For the people not too much into grindcore the easiest description I would use to avoid confusion: imagine hardcore punk played by death metalheads with severe negligence for musicality :) or vice versa, hardcore punks playing death metal at extreme pace with rawer, aggressive edge.
So what’s the title of the wormrot song?
The difference doesn't matter, they both fuckin rule.
I tend to.like the Super fast snack type parts that is mince.right? Regardless its all swell just particular type hits all the right spots
but what about man is the bastard with the prog/jazz element of pv that so many forget.
true that! Killer drumming!
Nice video. What tunning are you using in the guitar?
Check out Insuiciety, a sludge crust band from 00s
I find the Pv to sound more
Grindy and the GC to sound more powerciolencey
Referencing NASUM and WORMROT.
My man, I subbed to your channel fast as fuck, but not "You suffer" fast.
Grindviolence
Grindcore is born from punk. Not metal.
chicken or egg imo. :)
More powerviolence...
good video