Lantis Engine Mazda 2.0L V6 KFZE
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- Опубликовано: 22 окт 2024
- Andrew shows me the high-revving Mazda 2.0L V6 KF-ZE engine that powers his Lantis Race Car.
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This guy knows his engine. Awesome to see.
Haha, cheers. Always good to have a chance to talk nerdy about motors.
This guy is honestly as unique and cool as his car, he’s such a nice guy too
:D
The KL-DE engine is actually pretty nice. It only sits around 165 hp and 160 lb/ft of torque, but it's got a Variable-Length Intake system (VRIS) that keeps the the torques within a stone's throw of max power all the way from 3000 to ~6000 RPM, so it'll pull real good. Plus, from what I hear, the JDM engine, while it does have 35-40 more horsepower, the torque is about the same and the bottom-end is actually a bit weaker. It's certainly faster, but I don't know if it _feels_ faster. The ZE is higher compression engine and is optimized for higher revs and a higher redline, which is where it probably gets most of its extra power (peak power comes at around 6500 RPM on the ZE, whereas the DE peaks somewhere from 5600-5800 RPM), and even the VRIS is setup differently. If you put a DE's ECU on a ZE engine, or vice versa, you'll lose a good chunk of power off of your peak.
The Probe used it, and it's also available in the second-gen MX-6 (though good luck finding one; they seem to be even rarer than Corrados these days), which is what I drive, and the engine feels much bigger and stronger than it actually is. I don't have a lot to compare it to, but I've driven my dad's '06 Mustang GT, and that didn't feel nearly as lively, though the extra 800 pounds of car could've had something to do with that. All the same, it pulls good, sounds good, and is reasonably compact. It's a solid engine in a very nice car.
Interestingly, the base engine for the second-gen MX-6 was the KF-ZE in Japan, but elsewhere in the world, it used an I4, the FS-DE, which only produced 130 horsepower and 135 lb/ft of torque. Additionally, the MX-6 had a 4 Wheel Steering system that was only available in Japan, Australia, and continental Europe. The option was never available in the American or British versions of the car.
This car sounds so sick. Small V6s and V8s always sounds like old racecars
Cuz old race cars had small 6s and 8s lol
I had a '93 Mazda mx-6 with the KL-DE 2.5 v6 / 5-speed manual back in the late 90's, it was a good engine and loved to rev...well, it had to rev to go anywhere.
I currently have an 01 Mazda Millennia with that same motor. Sadly it's an auto, and a manual swap is a bear of a project. I can attest to that engine needing to review to at minimum of 4k to get anywhere.
Yea I know how you feel! I have a 95 probe gt and you have to rev the shit out of it to get moving 😂
what are you guys on about? I don't even have to rev my 2.5 over 3k for daily driving, uses fuck all fuel that way too. Anyways these motors have plenty of torque, much better than a 4cyl
This needs to go in an MX-5!
But weight saving bro!
Apparently it's not too heavy
B-Wulf it weighs the same
Yeah, just poking a little fun at purists.
I think maybe the 1.8 V6 from the MX3 would be a better fit literally speaking.
Much respect to this dude for really knowing His engine.
It would be really cool if you would review the MX-3, MX-6 or Ford Probe when you get back stateside. I’ve been waiting a long time to see how you would react to the KF/KL/K8, this video is GREAT!
13 years ago I had a Probe GT I swapped a KLZE into. The ~200HP 2.5L version of this engine. I love all the versions of this engine. They can sound so good with a proper exhaust and they rev so freely. The US Market got the 1.8L version in the MX-3 GS.
In the US they also came in the 1.8L V6 version in the Mazda MX-3. Slow as shit but sounds nice and loves to rev.
mauricio951 the mx3 is one of my favourite cars. I drove the piss out of mine until I blew the coolant system out. They're also equipped with passive rear wheel steering, so they're amazing machines for high traffic freeways.
mauricio951 dude 2.5 swap and you have a decent car I had my GS with the 2.5 engine and it didn't had a rev limiter which is a problem for this V6s since they have the reputation to run dry pass 8k FYI this engine's can rev around 9500rpms with a external oil pump
SuperScrooloose did it came with rear steering? I dismantle my MX-3 too many times and I never saw that system
it's known as the twin trapezoidal link suspension, it's all done via tension as you go through a turn, so there's no powered parts involved unlike the mx6's version. if you take the car off the ground and push on the rear wheels you can actually move the wheel a bit as though you have a right destroyed hub assembly. it really threw me for a loop when i took apart my rear end for brake work cuz i could break the lugs as the wheel would move when i pulled on them.
There used to be a guy that I would see driving around in a black V6 MX3 that had clearly done a muffler delete or straight pipes or something of that nature and that little car sounded absolutely freaking fantastic.
When I first saw/heard it going down the road, I immediately went home and started looking into the engine and then wondered why they never stuck that little 1.8 V6 in the MX5. Even in US trim, 130 hp and a conservative 7000 RPM redline seemed like a no-brainer in a roadster.
SkuzzyJ but now u know how stupid they were not to do klze
Johnny B
My theory is that it's actually because they wanted to do the turbo version of the original 1.6 four that came in things like the 323 but it was simply easier to package a larger displacement N/A four and just let it roll.
Bubble-era Japanese cars and the decisions that went into them will always make you scratch your head.
SkuzzyJ look for „gunning for Vettes“ on youtube
Mazda designers wanted to emulate the driving experience of the classic British roadsters of the past, that's why they used a 1.6 4 cylinder engine. For the overall feel of the car.
When I used to be a Probe owner (albeit first gen...I had the awesome F2-T) all the guys would talk about the JDM only "KL-ZE"= 200+ HP.
This bloke knows his stuff.
Best part of NZ. All of the weird cars and engines!
I miss my Lantis Type-R. Had a full exhaust done too and it sounded epic! Though, I'm not particularly tall for a guy, basically average height and with the optional sunroof and the seat as far back as possible, my head was touching the roof. Might buy another one day, they're so cheap in NZ!
Nice review.
And happy to see that in 2019, I'm not the only one to still revs up this engine in this (pretty) frame.😎😉
The Box said it adds 10 HP!
The box has a dyno graph, so it must be true!
Love y'all do more rcr stories! They make my week when y'all upload a new one!
That engine is begging for some ITBs
Yeah, there’s a handful of guys that run them, usually in Miatas
no, Great gobs of oil is correct. a lengthy but fixed intake trumpet will never give the low-end drivability of a 3-stage intake manifold. the engine would have to go in a much lighter car before itbs would be a practical solution.
Depends entirely on the end use-purpose of the engine.
For street driving? Yes, keep the variable intake.
For rally/sprint like these guys do? Hard to say, but likely? That stock intake is a restriction, and could definitely be improved upon.
Want to go balls out racing, where you're trying to keep the engine in the thick of its powerband? Yeah. ITBs would be better.
Course, you can set up itbs for low end torque. You can set them up for mid range. depends a lot on the runner length you choose.
Nah, it'd be fine in this thing for what it's used for. Would probably be a bit lame on the road, but in competition it's rarely below 5000rpm anyway, so the gains up top are worth it.
Why would you bother with resonance charge when you can *INITIATE PHOTONIC RESONANCE OVERCHARGE*
I had Probe GT with the KLDE 2.5L. A great little engine; very smooth. It needed better cams and the better intake to get much power, but it was vastly overbuilt for the 165 hp it put out. I drove it for 14 years until the strut towers rusted away.
Did you experience/review any mighty Australian cars like a Dunnydore or Falcon maybe a ute while in NZ? I'm Australian & would be interested in what you think of them. Cheers 'n' Beers,
the crank is held in place by whats known as a capped girdle. same with hondas but the girdle is removeable where this does not. the cam caps are the same, have a solid girdle
Mr. Universe You can remove the girdle and take out the crank.
when did i say you cant remove the girdle? cause i didnt. the caps and girdle are one piece on these unlike a honda where the girdle and caps are seperate entitys and bolt together in 2 pieces. should pay attention
And I quote, "same with hondas but the girdle is removeable where this does not." You may have understood your own words perfectly. I see what you meant from your clarification.
We also got that KL-DE in the Mazda Millennia's, MX-6, and 626. I love my Millennia, such a smooth car.
I had two versions of these engines, I did have a KLDE in the Probe. But I also had the K8-DE in the Mazda MX3 which was lots of fun.
I have a 2001 Mazda Millenia with the KL-DE, My head is currently cracked. We could also get the KJ-ZEM that was a 2.3L supercharged v6 that made 210 hp. I wish I had that one.
Dude I had Japanese Mazda MX 6 with the same motor! 5 speed manual. It had a car phone in it. It's the same car on the cover of midnight club.
I had a 323 Astina V6. Sure it was a crappy version, but boy did that engine love to rev. It was also tremendously front heavy.
Mazdas engineering papers say the block design was due to a combination of NVH goals and wanting a particular engine character. The latter being something you rarely associate with a japanese manufacturer.
But the block and crank do end up being fantastic pieces for endurance racing, with Ford racing teams in the UK choosing this engine over their own duratec V6 for touring car racing.
just put my probe back on the road for summer today! It feels fam good to drive again.
Many Probes in the US have the KLZE V6 since importing the engines is pretty easy and inexpensive. I bought my low mileage KLZE back in 2000 for only a couple hundred dollars more than a junkyard KLDE. The KLZE is known for having valve retainers that fail if consistently reved and abused above redline.
Sandon Lettieri usually people swap over to DE retainers. And iirc, it was the exhaust retainers that are different? I forget....
Clayton Smith it’s been a while since I read about it, but that sounds about right. I’ve had the same KLZE for quite some time and haven’t had an issue but I just keep it below redline. I do remember folks doing hybrid DE/ZE builds, taking the best of both.
Sandon Lettieri Funny enough I dropped a valve at 6,500 on my 155,000 mile DE lol. Pretty sure it wasn’t taken care of properly throughout its life though.
Clayton Smith that sucks about dropping a valve. I wouldn’t be surprised if the engine had a rough life. I hydrolocked my KLDE, shattering the lower block. The KLZE was the logical replacement at the time. Are you on Probetalk?
Don't forget about the 1.8L K8-ZE! We got those in the Mazda MX-3's in the 'States.
It's late, I need sleep. But Mr. Regular has other ideas...
Great tour around the 2.0L!
I painted my KF-DE rocker cover too. It looks great if you file off the top of the Mazda logo.
*God damnit not again*
P. Cookie meanwhile here in Finland 😄
i had one of those here in the uk. It was a ZXI version, the sound that v6 makes when the cat has been deleted is awesome
Man this video makes me want to play automation. Well when you talk about how characteristics were chosen for the engine and how it effects performance figures.
Muhaha, it's working.
And all my nerdy bullshit here has gone into the making of Automation :D
You should do a Ford probe gt
I want do it (I have KL-DE engine in my Probe now). But I cannot find KF-ZE for sale anywhere.
I bought a 06 mercury montego for a good price with the 3.0 Duratec and built a cold air intake to try and get more mpg's the engine looks very close to the mazda. It is our family car but it honestly surprised me how hard it pulls for a grocery grabber.
I think there was some tax law in Japan which compelled manufactures to produce cars under two litres and that is why Mazda made a "6 cylinder" short stroke 2 litre car with the extra strength bottom end racing engine design. They were trying to get the maximum power out of two litres but really they never took it to is theoretical limit. Otherwise they would have improved the oiling system as well but they didn't. That is why they made the 2.5 litre engines from the same block for export and they de -tuned it to produce about the same power as the 2 litre but with greater reliability. Hope this helps in the understanding of the engine size differences from domestic to export.
Love the KL series. Had two Probes, one Wild Orchid (DE) and one Rio Red (ZE swapped). The sound alone is worth the price of admission. Only issue is the transmission. They are known for cracking cases and puking trans fluid everywhere. Stock clutches cannot a handle a ZE Swap or more than 15-20 extra BHP really....
OTHER THAN THAT; go to a non-hydraulic timing belt tensioner and these little V6s? They're bulletproof!
So some of us from the Ford probe/mx-6 community have been catching wind about you wanting to a video about our cars in the states. There are many of us that have had these cars for many years that would be willing to give our input, info and our own experiences from being around these cars.
Just so you guys know. The 2nd gen mx6, probe, mazda millennia, mazda 626 all share klde, 03 style motors. And we do get the 2.0 v6 here in America. It comes in the mx3. The kl03 2.5l 1st gen motors make 165hp and the klde make 170 ish. The jspec klze makes 200hp on higher octane. Like the guy said they are all the same blocks and heads with piston, and cam changes more or less. You can even directly swap a jspec klze 200hp into and mazda mx6,626, ford probe with no hassle the use the same harness ecu. Ive been messing with these cars for the past 10 years. Not a common build. But with a 2.0, 2.5l motor with some low boost behind it. Well ill let you just imagine what that might feel like.
Cool engine, and I like the dude. I believe his theory, I like the way he puts it. Cool dude.
Do the Second Gen MX-6 or Ford Probe! I'm an MX-6 owner and I love my KLDE, first car I've ever had and it's just awesome especially blasting down the mountain pass with 4 wheel steering/5 spd manual.
The Mazda MX-3 had a K8-DE, a 1.8 liter v6. super cool
aaaaand this video answered all my questions from the last video. cool!
I own a v6 probe gt with a KLDE. While true it was the engine that didn’t make the same power as the ZE engines (since North America only got the DE) I will say it makes decent power. I can get to 60 in about high 6 low 7 on a good day. Not great but considering this engine and car came out almost 30 years ago. I have a 95 myself
I love small displacement with lots of cylinders. Honda made a 6 cylinder 250cc motorcycle. You could hold all of the pistons in two hands lol.
My dad had the 626 2.5V6 back in the mid to late ninties.
Hey Mr. Regular!! I love your videos. Ive been watching them since the Miata review. I had a couple of cars you would've jumped at to review. But i had to get rid of one of them recently due to space. it was a 1999 Toyota camry 3.0 v6 with a 5 speed. It was a camry...... so 5 speed or not, it was boring. It had its quirks. Like when you open the rear doors with the key in the ignition.... the door chime would go off hahaha. I also still have a 1984 Pontiac Fiero, Ive had her for a few years now. She needs a new clutch currently, but I would like you to possibly do a reveiw on her someday. After all it is the original Fiero. yes it has a 4 speed blahh blahh blahh. And the Iron Puke engine. but Id like to swap it. but I dont have the funds currently. So i will email you about it someday. Keep up the good work brother. And keep that sense of humor!!!!
when you get back to the states see if you can track down a not so beat KLZE swapped 2nd gen escort.. there were quite a few built.. not sure how many are still running ..
Now I super want to build a probe with this motor
A lot of Ford mercurys and Taurus’s, a lot Ford cars in general have these motors, they all have the v6 24v badge on the side
beautifull extractors
The crank girdle is not just a plus it also has 4 bolt mains
this new Zealanders voicesounds like a wizard I love it
My buddy has an 93 Mazda MX-3 with a 1.8 V6 they're pretty nuts
Legit set am alarm to wake up at 4am for work but this came up too
In the US we also get it in the MX-6, the 626 and I think the entry level Millenia.
B-Wulf Millenia had a KLG4, but yeah. Ports closer to that of the ZE.
And you can’t forget the Ford Probe.
Clayton Smith *626 was the KLG4. The Milly got the KLDE and some had square runner intakes to round port heads (my 02 donor motor in this case) (I believe '95s were claimed to have had square port heads and intake so there's that. But the DE version of the cams)
The G4 had a better flowing intake as well as lighter crank and Ford EDIS ignition rather than the disty.
I think he's on to something with it being a race car engine. Because am sure it's the one developed for the mondeo touring car hear in the UK.
Sure is!
Mr. Regular, if you're really interested in the American version of these (and the cars they were in; 2nd gen Probe and MX-6), PLEASE send me a message. I was greatly involved in the American Probe/MX-6 community and have people lined up to do a video with you (including one guy who bought a Probe as his first car and still has it/drives it to this day). Though Probes weren't really popular, the community around them was something very special (I met my wife and best man through it, and said best man met his wife through it, and even got his dog at a national Probe meet). They're cars that really deserve some special attention, not just for the vehicles themselves but for the people who loved them.
Seriously. Give me 10 minutes on the phone/Skype. I promise you it'll be worth it.
*Nice work*
I didn't know they made 6s that small. That thing makes about the same power as a Honda 1.8l 4 cylinder. It's neat but I don't get the point.
Kelly Grabill Engineering excercise, packaging differences. The engine was also designed for durability and sound. Forged steel cranks, in a cradle instead of mains caps. Also lightweight, weighs about the same as a 4 cylinder. I wouldn't trade mine for a Honda 4 cylinder.
PGTMR2 ah. So more torque is the reason. We didn't get them here in the US, obviously. Thanks for the input.
Kelly Grabill The Probe matched the Mustang 5.0 with the 2.5l DE v6. The ZE would have been around 6 - 60 getting very close to the 5.0 Cobra. They didn't want that.
In the same family was the K8-DE, 1.8L version of the same engine, was used in the Eunos 30X/MX-3. There's the K8 (1.8) KF (2.0) and KL (2.5). Japan and NZ got the higher output ZE versions while everyone else got the DE versions. The block size is the same so you can physically bolt the 2.5 in place of a 2.0 or 1.8 motor but the ECUs are different. There's been a couple of cases of guys throwing the JDM-spec 2.5L KL-ZE in a MX3 resulting in about 155hp/ton. What's the point of a tiny V6? Well other than it being beautifully smooth (balance a coin on it's side smooth) it was just one of those 90s Japanese carmaker artefacts where they all went a bit bananas for a while before deciding to be sensible again in the 2000s.
Kelly Grabill. We got the 1.8L v6 though.
America did get klze just not same exact one as japan...thr best is the combination of parts from DE head that let ZE head rev past 7500 w no valve float making the klze even more awesome
Johnny B America only got the heads and intake in the Millenia and not all years for the heads.
What PGTMR2 said, we got the KLG4 which is a lot closer to what the ZE has to offer, but still is not as good as a ZE for power.
Absolutely love the Alfa T-shirt ! Where can I find it ?
Mazda needs to add an engine option to the Mx-5 Miata, a 2.0 ltr v6 with a ~73mm stroke!
How do i contact this guy for a car review?
I like his Alfa Romeo shirt, very red. I hope it doesn't dissolve when it gets wet.
So far no. But it does emit a faint odour of electrical smoke...
what kind of headers, exhaust and ecu did you put in that grat engine? give the people some info!
Don't forget the K8-ZE 1.8l v6 in the mx3
So, this Lantis enthusiast happily neglects the long and relatively successful super touring career these engines had in virtually every 2-litre super touring championship in the world.... in the Mondeos, JTCC Lantis, BTCC Xedos 6 and even the few 323F super tourers built.
Yup, While I'm familiar with the JTCC cars, I'm not entirely convinced the whole K V6 series was built with it in mind.
That sure could be an explanation for why it's built like it is though, if they were very focused on using it for some touring car victories. Otherwise it seems curiously overbuilt for the applications it used in.
I suspect it was probably conceived before the super touring rules were set in stone. Nonetheless, it's saying something when Ford elected to homologate it in the Mondeos in favour of their own 2-litre. We'd be poorer for it if they hadn't, the sound of a Ford super tourer is something else.
Yeah, that Mondeo motor is a hell of a thing, really low in the bay and headers so big they need their own tunnel in the floor.
I must admit last time I was at Highlands I got them to pop the bonnet on theirs so I could scope out the header design. Real impressive!
Zetec... nice bit of pep, had one with the Rally box... fun times.
Richard Opie have a look at the transmission and where the halfshafts come out - that's an interesting design, mainly to mount the engine as low as possible in the bay. Also the alt is, in some versions of the BTCC engine, driven off of the drivers side halfshaft
Smashing
what is up with the hot air intake?
Stock airbox was a piece of crap, haven't got around to building new ducting for it yet, as it's going to get a new intake manifold anyhow.
Plus BWAA noises.
daffyflyer I thought it was a KL thing I run my MX-3 like this and almost every other MX-3 I knew has the same modification
mazda mx-6 came with them also
panic buy ford probe
both the probe and mx6 appeared to be around high 2700 lbs. am i mistaken?...
Mark Koetsier that’s actually not correct. The Probe was faster to 60 but has shorter gearing. Believe me, I’ve had both transmissions in my Probe.
Mark Koetsier I have not, partly because MX-6’s are much more rare around me in running shape. I plan to. Stock for stock I believe the Probe also got better suspension and sway bars.
Clayton Smith There's talk online that the Probe got the 4.388 final where the MX-6 got the 4.105 or whatever is the other common ratio that was in most G-series boxes. The MX-3 GS had the 4.388 final drive too.
The MX-6 is said to have softer suspension than the Probe GT, due to the Probe being marketed as a sportier coupe and the MX-6 being the more "tourer" version.
Kiefer Snell yeah, I forgot the numbers. But the MX-6 had smaller tires. It’s a common thing to swap to an MX-6 trans when your G series (inevitably) breaks for the 2nd or 3rd, 4th, or in my case 5th time lol. Unaltered it went at least 146 with an MX-6 trans....
This engine so belonged in the MX-5/Miata.
The mx-3 gs v6 here in 'murica is just as tight. 1.8 liter instead of 2 though.
I heard it suggested to use premium unleaded fuel in these engines. Does that hold true or is that just a clever marketing trick that stuck?
I mean, it won't hurt it to use standard, but given it's got a knock sensor (at least the ZE does, not sure about the DE), it'll likely take advantage of better fuel to run more timing.
Doubt the DE would care as much though (lower compression, and if I remember correctly, no knock sensor)
they used it in JTCC, no wonder its a race engine
ホンダoyasumi it was also in the 1999 and 2000 Ford Mondeo BTCC Touring cars. Highly modified and put out 305 hp. They absolutely dominated back then as well.
If I remember correctly, didn't Mazda make a 1.8L V6 here in the U. S. in the MX-3? Wonder is same block?
Sure is!
Kind of cool.
all old Japanese engines had this level of race inspired engineering. that was the way the tech was designed back then. easy to fix, simplistic not too busy standard of engineering, wich for ave fans is good engineering
Volvo 5-cyls (both N/A and turbo) have the same block girdle rather than individual caps, it's tremendously stout.
podcast when
Does the owner know if Probe headers from the 2.5 can fit the 2.0?
I want one in my Miata so bad!!!
I'm guessing you guys have no idea of the Mazda MX-3 GS it has a 1.8L V6 sounds amazing but no HP yet the car is light so they do move. Long story short KLZE is king of this small V6
Is it called Lantis in Europe?,mine is called an Astina/323F
I've only known it as the Mazda 323F in Europe.
And the whole Ford Probe was to be the Mustang, but people still wanted the RWD.
Did the 95 Mazda MX-6 have this same engine?
Don't forget the MX-6.
That’s a nice hot air intake
What was his video about?
The block originally came from Ford for the Mondeo, which in turn came from Porsche. Mazda slapped a pair of decent heads onto it and called it a day
Clicked off of a cello video for this
*I watch videos on cellos*
*Proudly said by no one ever*
P. Cookie lmao. But if it was on a cover of Thunderstruck, you probably would
Why didnt he put the KLZE in it? 2.5 liters
Motorsport classes. That'd put me in 2000ccs+ with the 700hp V8 Skyline and such.
4 am nice
My Mazda is best Mazda because *V6*
My truck has a Mazda V6...
Probably that it was supposed to be a turbo motor and mazda was like... need to make low end torque for zoom-zoom
Why is Tom Scott in the thumbnail?
626 and Millenias both got v6's