Grand Master Chen Yijiu, Home of dog boxing
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- Опубликовано: 1 фев 2014
- White Crane Fighting Arts kungfu club have been traveling to Fuzhou for the last 9 years learning DiShu Quan. Last year we were very sad to find the home of Dog Boxing had been demolished to make way for modern China.
I feel very lucky to have been their a few times and trained in the original court yard with the local villagers. 
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You should consider writing an article for deep water martial arts magazine. I am thrilled to see that traditional dog boxing is still alive, and Im sure you have some great stories from training in a place like that.
Much much Thanks for sharing this. Answers a lot of questions as I got a book a zillion years ago from China with these forms line drawings.
wow thats the real deal, its kind of sad that such a diverse style of kung fu isnt more popular, would love to see its development and interaction with moder martial arts styles
To be fair I see more and more of the same movements we use in MMA and Juijitsu. We are pushing the style and have a book on the style coming in the next few months if all works out well with publishing.
Fabulous history and inlook of such a rarity within our precious world of Kung Fu
My grandmaster is master lin zai pei in china never knew he was so famous
Hi Gary, we have Bagua stepping in the two man forms but my master also did Bagua with another master so may have a slight influence? But to be good at the Dishu Quan binding you need the basic opening steps of Bagua to enter the opponents gates front or back. :-)
does lin zai pei have any students that fight competitvely?
Mhh... Two points... First very good video and high quality stuff. Second the oppinion not to teach the good stuff to everyone is in my eyes absolutely nonsense! Kung Fu is dying and all these masters only living their vanities.... I think that is not ok. In china taekwondo, sanda, mma etc is much more popular than Kung Fu... And the thought to give the real deal only to the "worthy" students is false, unfair and destroys kung fu.
I can see your point but... if every MMA student came in my door and was taught the locks I feel work well and I don't see used in competition, the art would die anyway.
The skill of kungfu is the dedication, it is the training from the bottom and advancing over the years. Kungfu translated means skill after hard work of a subject. As the Kungfu channel I would expect you more than any to understand this? My master or the old masters in the films we see are respected because of their dedication to the art. When younger it maybe competition fighting, middle age is hardest as you are less fighter and more forms but the understanding is growing and finally the real fight is your health and passing the style on to the new generation. The fact you don't give it away easy is because you want to keep the skill level high or it is worthless. The sad truth is when you give it away easy it is worthless. If you want the quick step now days most things are on youtube :-) but doing it counts. Refinement is only learnt over time and lots of different opponents. It not as simple as this technic is best...
@@Neiljohnson79 Such a nonsense! Not everybody can be good in an art. For example there are good boxers, bad boxers, medium boxers... not everybody can be a master, not every body can be a boxing world champion. That´s unrealistic. But your argumentation is that the "real deal" is only given to 2-3 closed door students. And what is with the other 20 students? Are you gonna do it as well? Are you gonna to teach only 2 guys in the right way and the other guys are left out in the cold? The point is that nobody I ever saw ever could fight in the ring with kung fu. And youre talking about to keep the level high.... So that´s insane. To say that an art is only taught in the right way to 2 persons is like you would know that these two persons have the makings to become a master. That would be the same to train someone boxing because out of the nowhere you would know that this or that guy would be the one who becomes the world champion. The point is "a lot helps a lot" If you train a lot of people in the right way there is a much higher chance that one of these people becomes good and carry the knowledge to the next generation. I hate it when guys are these "wanna be moral gods" but only doing the opposite thing... If someone wants learn from me and gives me money for it I am gonna to teach him the real deal from the beginning on. To do it in the opposite way is the embodiment of immoral.
You obviously just don’t understand Kungfu teaching it is not MMA it is not all about fighting with fist. The fight can be of character or mental state of mind. Let’s be honest if you spend 42 years learning the arts and 20 years going halfway around the world. Would you give it away easy? I am happy with my art and I wish you the best in your path.
@@Neiljohnson79 "It is not about fighting with fist?" Of course it is! The only reason why kung fu is not only fighting is the mindset to be sooo good in fighting that in the right situation you'll have the decision to fight or to fight not. And cause of that you gonna to decide not to do it if not necessary. But if youre not good this mindset is nonsense cause you'll never have the decision to fight or not. And if you never fight you never become good! If you never cook or never do exercizes you'll never become any good in cooking or in mathematics. Why should it be different in kung fu?// I did this "mental fight" in reallife and I used aspects musashi used and in this situation I got everything I wanted. So I can say I "fought" with mental kung fu if you want so.// But I can't hear it any longer "kung fu is so much more...bla bla// kung fu is a mental thing// the training is only for trsining your mind and personality...// the training of your body is only the fundament of the mental training//" BUT TO HAVE THAT MINDSET ONE FIRST HAVE TO BECOME ANY GOOD! And there are only guys who wear costumes and never understood a single technique or how to fight with it in reallife... So youre not meaned here but quotes like "to keep the level high is really nonsense" and that masters or trainers are deticated to their art is NO argument. I am dedicated as well, I give free training for everyone who is interested and take no money. So if you think about it in the end this argumentation would feed me as well...
The problem with online is this whole crazy thread is from a video you have seen. I have fought for ten years full contact and lost on my first fight only and once when I entered after dislocating a knee the day before. I entered because I loved the fighting aspect. Our club is called Whit Crane Fighting Arts because I value keeping the arts true and effective. All I can offer you is an invite to visit our club one day in the future we do not clame to be the best fighters around the world. But our average age in the adults class is around 45 years old and most have been with me for around 10 years plus. The internet makes it so easy to judge from a far. But I am proud of my club and it’s members. This is the last time I will return your messages as I would rather spend my time training :-)
I like it !!Looks right up my street
I can see the master has done is work very well
Its great to see the arts kept alive, but there is no such thing as "Secret Techniques" there is technique that people keep to themselves and only pass on to a few, but they are not secret.
I saw Crane Style San Qing at the beginning.. which also originated in Fujian.
There was a book out a while back on Shaolin Dog boxing, in it there was a section on Iron leg training, which I don't see any equipment for in your videos. With this practice you would have a great compliment to groundwork or a silat system. Some good techniques in the system.
Interesting grounded movements, id be interested to try smd incorporate them into my training routine
Very interesting, of particular note is that circling you do after an interaction is very similar to the mirroring done by boxing practitioners. They do it so that their opponent won't back be able to back them in a corner and so they maintain the proper distance from their opponent. Presumably, you do your circling for similar reasons?
Hi David,
Yes many principles are the same for all fighting.... Circling away from the power side, making the opponent have to re adjust there root to attack and for dog boxing it sets up an attack from the front inside legs or around from the side to the back. As you say it stops you being cornered or fighting in a linear manor that leads to constant resetting of attack defence. All the best fighters can side step, slip or circle. This is only a set form but helps ingrain all of the above in combat.
@@Neiljohnson79 Thanks.
Does this style have Circle Walking in it or did you meld it with some Bagua on your own?
Circle walking is involved in many martial arts styles, not only bagua.It's a basic moving pattern.
Hi Neil, very kewl interesting video. This is a Kung Fu style like no other because it has striking at different ranges, wrestling and ground fighting. I've been training in Chinese martial arts for 20 years now. It would be neat to talk to you sometime. Is email a good way to get in touch with you?
Hi Zack always happy to talk, on UK time :-) I rather not do much long emails please. All my contact details are on www.whitecranefightingarts.com or if you can come to a class even better.
Thank you for your interest in the art.
@@Neiljohnson79 will do Neil, I'll keep my email brief. Will write soon, tonight after work or tomorrow.
Lestarikan 👍👍👍👍
Hi Neil - you said in one of your replies that "Dishu has a lot more stand up middle range fighting but it in known for its ground work." Presumably then the sequences on the feet at the beginning of the clip (from about 0:07 to 0:45) are part of that middle range Dishu, and not from Tiger Crane...? If so, there seems to be an overlap with Crane, correct?
Hi Michael, being a Fuzhou style there are many over laps of the local systems. So one of the movements for instance is called Red crane shakes it wings! Having studied Tiger Crane both have the sticking qualities and coiling for joint manipulation. This form is pure Dishu. I hope this helps a bit.
Great, thanks Neil
very nice to see. congrats.
Thank you Martin, I hope all going well with your club :-)
how do you find this as practical form of fighting? or more for kata display purposes?
This fighting art has safe ways to practice the movements but is very effective in real fighting. But like Juijitsu we learn how to counter the binding skills. And as ever can you do it when being punched in the face! Dishu has a lot more stand up middle range fighting but it in known for its ground work. Unlike a sport each strike is done in real life to end the fight. If the ground binding is done properly the joint won't work again so in my mind yes it is very effective but only as good as the person doing it like all martial arts.
My master is very small in stature but has broken two challengers joints in the past, giving him much respect in Fuzhou city. But most challenges now days are sport with rules. I hope this helps understand our art a little :-)
+Neil Johnson as a jujitsuka, I disagree to some extent
when you break it down and retain practicality, it will be, but in the end it depends what discpline you are looking for, simply relying on narrow-range motion and complicated moves *or* wider-ranged motion and simple but more powerful moves.
If you wanna be practical with it you'd better systematically focus on training wider ranged of motion moves (70%) in order to utilize your footwork, defense and power attacks (i'd say defense and footwork is most important), when you practice sparring with someone, the process, which consists of many rules, will surely make it look like kickboxing and bjj, but it builds up awareness very fast and you can still retain 30% of complicated but narrower range of motion moves (like in the video) for surprise attacks on top of the awareness and athleticism you built with kickboxing/bjj(or qin na). People who begin with kickboxing and bjj as a foundation usually utilize animal styles way better than other people.... *in terms of sparring whether in the ring/cage or on the street*
I am generalizing, generalizing and generalizing, probably over-generalizing but you can't really go wrong in the direction I proposed if you are willing to learn and experiment to find out for yourself, since everybody is different in some ways
Very good!!!!!
This looks very interesting indeed. I have never managed to find a great deal on dog boxing outside of wushu sets. Shame there's nobody I can find based north west UK for this style (that I have turned up at least)
Hi Joe,
Your welcome down south one day if you would like to try Dishu :-)
+Neil Johnson thank you! I'll inbox you later about it if that's fine?
Hello Neil!
How long did you study this art? Did you use it during actual sparring too?
kimnayung Hi I have been learning Dishu Quan for just over 15 years and had a good foundation of 11 years in Tiger Crane. The styles had many similarities in the standing due to both having Fujian roots. As for sparring absolutely we use the movements but there are quite a few techniques that you just have to be very careful or you will have no partner. I am not a Juijitsu practitioner but I believe they also has movement a they learn but are not allowed to use in competition.
We have a book hopefully coming out in less than a year that should be of interest to you 🙏
@@Neiljohnson79 Nice 👍.
Its very interesting form of fighting. Where in UK do you teach?
@@kimnayung My home training room is in Burgess Hill. Just out side of Brighton West Sussex.
As far as I know! No one teaches DiShu Quan at any depth in the USA sorry. That's why I go to China, we are the only true club with the whole picture in Europe. We do have summer training camps if your interested in learning but you will need a good foundation in the arts.
neil: does your dishuquan have ground submissions ?
I have a question so do people who practice dog boxing learn dog boxing from the routines by doing the application.And if that is true do you guys just practice one dog boxing routine
There are 8 original Dishu Quan Fa routines. Many of the binding movements are in the forms but if you know the binding methods you don’t need the forms.
The forms came after the binding but became a good way to practice and not favour one side.
Like all forms it gives you muscle memory, builds strength, flow and you don’t always have someone willing to be lock up.
The rolling and ground work conditions the body and gives you the ability to move well be it on the ground or standing. The list is on and on as if swept, thrown or taken down the transition to ground or getting back up is more natural.
All new students start with the San Zhen 3 wars routine to show a level of commitment before starting binding methods. If the student has a strong foundation in other arts they will obviously progress quicker.
I hope this helps a little Neil.
@@Neiljohnson79 could you possibly show the routines of dishuquan in a video
This one of the forms I have online of QiXing I hope you like it… ruclips.net/video/sT_TetBKdys/видео.html
@@Neiljohnson79 thanks
@@Neiljohnson79 Do you have any other videos of the forms of dog boxing im really interested in the techniques of this style
1:51 interesting. Kinda like an outside imanari roll
Did I just see some Pa-Kua circle walking?
That’s definitely break dancing from the 80’s. I just never knew there were so many other dance moves before you got to the Helicopter. Great dancing guys, keep up the good work.
Who teaches this style in the USA?
Anybody knows?
Thanks!
good right now i am not sure if anyone teaches this in the USA. but I am studying under grand master Zai Pei Lin in fuzhou. It's a great style u should try it out
@@jaysong7591 Hopefully by now, there's someone who teaches this style in the USA. Anyone knows?
at least it looks like a real martial art. Unlike the "modern wushu" version i saw where people were mimicking the dog with their tongue out and doing a bunch of useless butterfly kicks and flips..
do they really do this because they think this will help them in a fight or do they do it for the fun and for the look of it?
It has worked quite well for the last few hundred years. Just like any training drill you obviously take what you need when needed. What looks like a take down from behind would be a strike to the groin, You can trap them from rolling away or whip out the legs making them land on there face. Even the bridged hand is released or the bend in the back makes the fall much faster making the fall harder.
It always makes me laugh with any comment like yours. It’s a two person form for practice and a show but there is actually a lot of elements we use all the time in more intense sparring session. However you can’t just kick your partner in the groin, hit there artery in the neck.
You can’t pull on their testical’s! Even the grounded person receiving the standing kick is done the safe way, if the other leg is used they fall to the empty corner most likely landing on the coxes of the whip of falling hitting the head on the ground.
It is not a sport so no mats or soft ring. Our ultimate is to not fight and to be able to do it in to a good late healthy life.
But most of all we do it because we do enjoy the dance :-)
Combat breakdancing
Hi Shawn,
I am happy to do an artical for the magazine my email is Neil@whitecranefightingarts.com I am away for the next two weeks but if you out line any info on what you would like I can hopefully help. I think it will make a good story. Thanks Neil.
I linked the magazines website in the comments, if you go to submission guide, it is all laid out for you. I look forward to hearing more about the dog boxing.
there are only a few reasons to "keep secrets" in martial arts, in my view. First , is to try to promote a "mystery" to appear special and mysterious. or 2nd really don't have anything special or workable and keeping it "secret" insures no one finds out it isn't usable. Maybe, "back in the day" keeping your skills hidden was necessary but now days, when there is everything everywhere and with a click of a button you can find anything you want. "secret" skills and martial arts just are not needed, plus with today's society there isn't really any major need to "hide your skills" No one has hand to hand street fights anymore. Same thing as saying "hey go get your armor, shield and sword were going on a quest". If you tell me your learning a secret martial arts no one knows about your either pulling my chain or a few sandwiches shy of a picnic. Plus if 90% of what your doing is kata you probably don't have much contact with another person and most likely haven't ever really tested it out so who knows if it really works or if it does weather you can really do it. Kata are nice (and I mean that 100%) they teach memorization but nothing when it comes to practical application, this go's for two person kata as well.
Bentley's Backwoods Bushcraft, All of what you have just said is nothing new! I don’t proclaim me Neil Johnson to be the best fighter. The internet can be a sad place unlike my classes. In my class we train hard, play hard, do our best to keep the art we teach real to fighting skills, accept some people have real injuries from years of fighting or are just older. We have many people who have been in the club for over a decade. In this time of Coronavirus we are very grateful that we have our patterns, forms, Katas... the ultimate fight is your own health in the long run, more now than ever.
As a teacher, cliche as it is..... You want your students to surpassed your skill level or the art is lost.
There is no secret it is just, is the person ready to learn it! Have they spent the time becoming natural at what they have been taught. Do they know the small nuances to actually make the technique work. Do they know how to apply the technique from different angles and positions, have they learnt how to escape the technique or how to defend against the technique. If you were training Juijitsu they have belts to show your level of knowledge. It is not about secrets it can be trust in a persons temperament, is there character going to use the art in the wrong way!
But I will not give my art that I have spent 44 years learning to someone on the internet or just walked into my class on the first lesson!
There is no Secret.
Jajajaja😅
😂 sorry i just dont see these dogs biting
Said the silent warrior 😊
连国内的人都很少会花大钱学这个，也只有老外会花大钱学！
你不明白也不会明白，这是国宝。
乱说，我学了陈依九老师全部功夫，和铁脚。
Traditional Chinese Kung Fu
我不会教老外。
You may not know but I have been traveling to China to learn your countries cultural heritage for the last 22 years. I respect the person not there Country of origin. It is personal to you if you do not want to teach foreigners! Thank fully my master like Chen YiJiu wants the art to spread and not die out. The modern life style in China is finding it hard to produce the next generation at the same level of martial skills of the old days. Only a few are dedicated, do you travel half way around the world every year to progress? And I still wish you well in you art Neil.