The forbidden techniques of Judo (Kinshi Waza) 柔道の禁止技
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- Опубликовано: 5 янв 2021
- This video discusses the four forbidden, or Kinshi Waza and their history, and how they mechanically work.
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From Brasil: Judo is fantastic. This video serves to show, especially to Jiu Jitsu practitioners, that Judo is not just the gentle and recreational part of the sport.
A lot of these techniques are especially dangerous because they're sutemi-waza, meaning the person receiving the throw has their opponent's whole weight putting pressure on their joint on top of their own. Also note that kami-basami can be dangerous for the person performing the throw as well if you don't post properly, it's easy to injure your shoulder if you fall straight on it by doing the throw dropkick-style.
Great point also about doing the takedowns in a dynamic manner, pulling guard into a leg entanglement BJJ-style is very different from explosively reaping the knee. Same with something like waki-gatame, doing it in a controlled manner is fine, but exploding into it will definitely cause injury (see Shinya Aoki breaking people's arms with that very technique).
this is what each school should teach
100%
Especially as self-defense techniques.
@@delvesdg do you think they care? They are the people who say that is someone hit you, you should tell them
They are building weak people
I myself have defended myself using my judo like O soto gari, ko uchi gari, harai goshi and de ashi barai
Nan I think they should teach something more simple
@@justsomeguy6545 thank god there’s a lot of school teaching this and you can’t stop it
Great video as always! Thanks!
Thank you Diane
You should rename this video to "The forbidden techniques of Judo" and you'll get way more views
Done
What was the previous title?
@@shockbladezed2726 yeah I'm curious too
@@jsealejandro06 yeah im really curious
I just typed this in and you were the first video I saw, so what was the original title?
Great video and glad I found your page ..thank you 🙏🙏🙏🙏
🙇🏻♂️
amazing work man
Thank you 🙇🏻♂️
Man this arc just keeps getting awesome
🙇🏻♂️
Tks 4 show us this forbidden Techinics, Chadi! Kawazu Gake is a great news for me and I will try it in the dojo.
Best of luck
@@Chadi 😂
@@Chadi I tried yesterday. U should have seen my Sensei's face: don't try it again!lol
@@rodrigocrispim be careful man :p
Nice presentation thank you
Thank you
man, the kami basani looks brutal, no wonder its banned.
Awesome video brother Chadi! Thank you 🙏 one forbidden technique I learned from a Judo black belt years ago was the C-Clamp Choke believe it or not lol one thing I noticed differently from Judokas vs BJJ players (from sparring with both) was that Judokas have vise like grips and God forbid they were allowed to grab the trachea with their hands lol
Was that legal back then???
@@Chadi no way! It was his one move that he said he would definitely use only in self defense not in sparring or a tournament. And although it can be easily countered by a variety of techniques, if you’re aware of them, it definitely is potent weapon.
Nice..thanks
And I love your channel.
Thank you Roger
2 thoughts. There is always debate in the submission grappling community on if kani basami should really be banned. I used a variation in wrestling as a counter to a single leg. I did in judo practice all the time. It was actually a staple in my takedown arsenal and I ignored all warnings. Me and a teammate made it to the finals in NAGA no gi tournament and I was screwing around attempted to do kani basami on him. It was a "career" ending injury. (Obviously not our career) but my friend had both his ankle and knee shattered. The amount of guilt I have from that moment, then and now, has made it that I do not teach that technique, nor do I tell people they should do it.
I was always told that Do Jime was banned because of how easy it was to just stall. Sambo, catch, bjj, all of them use that method. I can promise that ude garami has injured more people in one year then the entire existence of do jime. Especially big guys, beginners in jiu-jitsu try to do this because they don't know any better, I tell them that they need to stop because I am certain to a level of 99% surety that you will not get the tap. The body triangle, which is legal in judo as well, creates significantly more pressure.
While I agree with certain techniques being banned for safety, most techniques are banned in judo do to sport politics and other countries being able to win against the Japanese too constantly. These reasons are why I walked away from the sport of judo. The sport, the sport application is what forms and shapes the art. People train judo to win medals, even if they don't compete, that is how they are trained. Unless you're training at a school like Hayastan, most likely you are not learning anything more then sport judo. Rarely, much less then 1% of all judo schools, practice combat effective judo.
Brilliantly said
Did your friend ever recover from his injuries?
@@danielche2349 yes he recovered, so to speak. But he never did judo or jiu-jitsu again due to concerns of a massive injury again. I've never even practiced kani basami a single time since.
I would run into one new white belts a year who would try to do this on me during open mats.
Speaking like a true Maestro, teaching from your own mistakes… Respect
Great video, Kani Basami can certainly be done safely, but it can be hard to master and certainly has high risk. I think you are right, we shouldn't die on the hill for Kani Basami.
Ashi-garami looks identical to setting up a heelhook from open guard.
I've used Do-jime from Closed Guard before in randori and got the tap, but I never knew it had a name (or that it was illegal).
Using Do-jime from Back Control would leave you vulnerable to an especially nasty foot/ankle lock in any sport where leg locks are permitted.
Not if you extend your legs above their waist and not below
I got my róg hurt during randori with this. Luckly they did not break. Good It Is illegal.
thnkas for information
🙇🏻♂️
Thanks
competition wise these are all career ending moves jesus
Outstanding 🙏
Thank you 🙇🏻♂️
@@Chadi thank you sir 🙏
These are some sweet techniques.
Indeed
I thought about the do jime trick but thank god i found dis video before tryibg it🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Stay safe
I know the do-jime as The Xenia Onatopp from Golden Eye.
My brother did it to me and I tapped.
My favorite techniques
other than low back injury, my ankle later tendons all 3 torn was the most devastating injury ever. 8 weeks in a cast and still cannot get bach to mt and that has been 4 yeary,
Good timing Chadi, :)
Next atemi waza ? (if not already covered)
ruclips.net/video/D0OSgwm-0VQ/видео.html
Ashi Garami looks brutal. I actually winced when I saw it the first time
WOOOOW Today i learned something
🙇🏻♂️
I lost my ACL due to Kawazu-gake, so i know why its banned.
Oh I'm so sorry! Hope you recovered
@@Chadi Thank you, i needed 2 yrs to recover. Now i am fighting again in my league, but sometimes i still do have pain. Knee injuries suck o.O
But thats life ;)
@@JudoImPott stay strong brother
@@Chadi Thank you :)
The knee is healthy enough to do the one thing i love, so i am happy (y)
@@hancyimnsnhoyo3553 "my method of judo"
Plus one has to develop the mechanics and have the body signature. One can not see the demo and try it then wonder why it doesn't work. Every good art has its own body signature one has to develop from proper training. Thanks for all the great informations.
Excellent point
1:45 - Ashi garami(sacrifice throw+ leglock + kick to the inner leg)
4:40 - Do jime (bear hug with legs)
6:20 - Kani basami (scissors throw)
8:55 - Kawasu gake (inner leg trip)
11:35 - Conclusion
Thank you for doing this
@@Chadi Fun fact: Jean Joseph Renaud, who was a student of Bartitsu & a formidable fighter in own right, advocate to use the scissors in his book *Défense dans la Rue*
From the standing position at page 179(with & without the sleeve grab) and at page 265(when on the ground)
So good ol Kani basami might have a use in self defence after all...
@@ignitionfrn2223 it’s destructive for sure
@@Chadi If you are interested, you might check out *Les Arts Martiaux Francais* & *Les Arts Martiaux Traditionnels Francais* : they have videos on Savate ; Cane/Stick Fencing & even a video on Panache (a self defence art inspired by Jiujitsu) & Lutte Parisienne (a system combining boxing strikes & wrestling throws like Judo)
ive never actually seen do-jime done in real life, but ive met a guy who could finish people with the body triangle from the back position, it felt like my lower spine was about break and didnt feel like a choke
Never seen the do-jime done as it is in the video, but I've personally used the body-triangle from back mount to get taps in training as well as a tournament. It's one of those playful dirty jiu jitsu techniques that I try from time to time, but the trick I find is to wait and listen closely to the opponent's breath. If you squeeze tight on a body triangle the moment they finish exhaling and hold that pressure for 3 seconds, you'd be amazed how many people tap from panic.
Kani Basami is a Scissor takedown. A sweep would imply one of the persons was at bottom position.
Grapevines can be used to prevent being elevated, but not to throw in American folkstyle wrestling, for the same reason. A grapevines leg can get the knee hyperextend fairly easily.
Do-jime is very simple and effective. No need of fancy stuff if you are able to get your legs around.
Gentle Way!
The way is gentle. The fall, not so much
Chadi -- have you got a copy of the 1903 book titled "The Text-Book of Ju-Jutsu - As Practised in Japan - Being a Treatise on the Japanese Method of Self Defence " by Master S K Uyenishi. A lot of these techniques are in there.
2.25 - absolutely beautiful. finish the fight quick. Chadi, I'd pay you massively to teach me these techniques privately. I have no interest in competition fighting. I am only interested in self defence.
Thank you, I’m flattered but I’m nowhere near qualified to teach
Happy New Year everyone!
To you and your family
I believe Ashi Garami is what Jake Shields used and injured Cub Swanson's knee in their grappling match. Cub said he underestimated Jake's strength in that position. Jake had probably 20-30 pounds on him too.
interesting
🙇🏻♂️
Hi Chadi, is the real meaning of 'ashi garami' different with John Danaher version of 'ashi garami'?
Bcos what John means from what i see is the control mechanism of opponent's one leg (and it comes to many forms of it such as saddle, reap, 50/50, etc) and what i see in your video, the ashi garami is not only a control mechanism, but also a finishing move.
The submission was also called ashi hishigi
I used to do juijistu with a friend that did do-jime all the time. We never knew it was a real technique, let alone a forbidden one 😳
I trained silat before and scissors kick alot in sparrings and competition without much injuries. It is because according to Silat rule you cant use the arms to take down your opponent. The techniques must be done primarily by your legs
I wonder with the scissor kick take down that the problem for Judi is the diversity of throws. Of course in Capoeira we are doing this all the time, but we don't get in close with arms and it's obvious when someone is doing it so we can position or body as a receiver to not hurt ourselves. If you think there's going to be a hip throw (which you'd have in judo but not Capoeira) you'd position your body differently or even move around and this may make you much more vulnerable to injury, with the changes angle.
@Chadi wish you were my teacher!!
I'm honoured but not qualified
We worked very hard on all these techniques in the 60s and 70s. By far the greatest danger in Judo training are white belt students.
That is true everywhere. Stumbling newbs ruin the great sport. No matter what it is. Let's ban them. Oh - whole sport just died out. I guess we didn't think about this further.
I remember when i had just started karate at university when the bodybuilder-looking blackbelt got me with Do-jime several times. I cant be sure he really realised the potential risks but I knew it was a tapping situation. It sucks big time.
Agreed
So, its still in karate but not judo??
A friend of my sister practiced BJJ with his cousins and i think the uncle was the teacher. He was rolling with a very skiny guy and my sister´s friend applied a Do-jime and it actually broke a rib. Can´t blame you for tapping that´s for sure it can be a very bad situation specially if you face a significant weight discrepancy
@@karleduard7725 I'm not sure its in the official rule book. My impression was that he came up with the idea himself haha
Do shime worked 4 me against a guy 65 pound heaver n stronger than me... his ribs were pressuring his tired exsausted lungs. Yeah he was breathin hard n 1st used close leg moved 2 close fig 4 moment closed got tap ... Ok ill never use it again my friend complained about not being able 2 take a deep breath 4 several weeks
That's something Rickson would seem to use!
As to not having modern surgery back then. I seen it a few times said as the feudal era was coming to an end, only thugs were using jiu jitsu, but other jiu jitsu masters took up bone setting. Which if a person knows how to remove a bone from a joint, they should be able to put it back. Granted tendons could be stretched, but rest and recuperation.
Yet, Judo, a person should be conscientious not to hurt another, but accidents can happen.
Used in bjj nowadays ashi garam but from the guard and in a standing ti ground transitions so much less impact for injury
Theyr e subtle but deadly especially do jime
I've been treated by a "folk" bonesetter. He set straight the shoulder that an older student had dislocated...years ago.
I Will buy or made a wrestling dummy only to understand better the dynamics of those dangerous throws and locks.
Wince
I long thought the the best "system" for real world life death unarmed combat situations would incorporate all the banned techniques from various "sport" martial arts. E.g. Stepping on opponents foot while boxing to limit their mobility, punching below the belt, eye gouges from old school exhibition wrestling, etc. Fortunately have never had to be in one of those situations and hope I never will.
the hard part is actually practising such moves, if you don't practice, you won't do it in self defence situation. and if you practice, you risk injuring yourself and your training partner
Is kawasu gake and ashi garamu only found in judo or BJJ, anyother cultures? I know kawasu gake is from sumo btw
Before i got a injury in my knee(left) my most powerful judo technic and one of my best today is Harai goshi. I had to left judo, but i still can make a great Harai Goshi.
Which of this technics do you thing is one of the best to combine with it? Self defense question, not sportive question
Fun story, Yamashita one of the earliest students of Jigoro Kano loved Harai goshi, but injured his knee so he came up with Hane goshi around the year 1886/87 you can try that one. Also I'd say O uchi gari is a great throw for self defense.
@@Chadi incredible coincidence. But what i did with my harai goshi was chnge the side. Im right hand and my harai hoshi was, so i made a little change in the grip to make my harai goshi with the left, but with my right hand grip, so my injured knee(left) will be in the air.
Thabks gor the tip, ill give a chance to Hane Goshi
@@andreicharpentierquesada4530 best of luck
All wristlocks, such as in the goshin jutsu, are also illegal
You mention fusen ryu. How do you feel about that was a previous attempt of what judo has become and both competed for that?
I didn't quite understand
@@Chadi that both fusen ryu and kano jujutsu attempted to become a jujutsu based sport
@@ismaelferrer2696 they were competing, civil rest has been a thing for centuries, they were basically competing in Kyoto in the 1890s to show which school is best.
Its crazy to me that even though ive never done judo. Ive done and learned all theses. To be fair though the scissor kick ( kani basami) you learn in wrestling is much safer than the judo one
it's sad that it's banned, I mean it should be taught in a safe way & cannot be used in a competition instead
Shouldn't morote gari and single leg take Downs also be on this list? Considering that you're no longer allowed to grab legs, that makes these forbidden techniques too now, right?
I feel that our BJJ arshi garami and judo arshi garami are similiar, both are lethal, but yet judokas do it with more fatality. I was cringing at the knee/leg when the pressure sink in.
Its brutal
Totally, its basically what we call "knee reaping" in our world(bjj)
Let’s not say spazzy white belt or spazzy beginner anymore let’s just say spazzy grapplers because in my experience they come in ALL belt colors !!!
It makes me remember ryo chonan X Anderson Silva!
When I was wrestling at a tournament some kid did the scissor sweep to me (kani-basami) which is also illegal in wrestling, but the ref didn't call him or do anything to him about it, and I think I would up losing like 4-1, so I mightve lost anyways, or we might even tied
Still think about that
What matters is no one had his knees torn
We call do jimi the body scissors. I had to submit from this from an Iranian wrestler 30 years ago. I think I would have died!!
You forgot to mention daki age
Seriously, you aren't allowed to squeeze someone with your legs in Judo?
Dojime is very good for women's unarmed combat defense being females often have very strong legs.
It works for Xenia Onatopp.
Do-Jime prohibited? Only in judo...
Do-jime. On my stomach. Fortunately my opponent is not strong enough.
Every student need to know this technique, so they know when the opponent did it.
Kubi Nage!
Something that's mystified me for a long time is why modern grapplers who train for "self-defense" don't understand that so many of the modern tactics are invalidated by do-jime.
Do jime is a killer
How is do jime any different than full guard in BJJ? Also crossing your feet while taking the back is a nice way to get your ankle broken by someone who understands they to lift their legs over yours
@@limitless3146 it's different from guard in that you pull the guy into you while scissoring and extending your legs which, the scissoring extension pulls the knees/thighs close into his ribs with a lot of pressure. full guard is more about controlling the opponent and keeping him close to you using the hammies.
there's a more effective version of do jime from guard where you lock your hands behind your knees with an s grip. i've seen people tap to it but i don't think i would myself.
from the back it's different, yes the ankle lock is a threat to be aware of, but again it's about scissoring the legs and pulling the opponent into the pressure of your thighs. it's similar to getting caught in a figure four from the back - back triangle - it can cause a lot of damage but is more likely to be effective against a noob, someone who's been toughened up after a couple of years on the mats should be able to adjust and deal with it.
although having said that i'm sure a big gorilla could squeeze me to death with his legs
@@ijustwannaleaveacommentony6511 I remember reading a story of someone using do-jime in competition and their opponent throwing up on them as a result. So I guess that's the counter…
I honestly cringed watching these especially the last two techniques because I can feel the pain of it going wrong. I am currently experiencing knee pain although not from judo or any sport so imagining the pain of these techniques hits home 😂
what? that do jime technique was used to me by a heavyweight in bjj. i thought that was just instincts
It's dangerous
Kubi Nagi should be included.
Our BJJ is explosive at my academy.
Dojime and the body triangle doesn't look that dangerous
How many kata in Judo?
Official Kodokan Judo there are 10. There are several more though that aren't part of the official curriculum.
@@kevionrogers2605 thanks Kevion....recently Chadi mentioned a kata from Judo, and a kata from a jiujitsu system in a video about chokes....I am wondering what Lara’s these are, as I would like to learn them
Katame no kata that had the chokes
to bad they banned all the cool JJ parts, atleast keep the leg grabbing in takedowns, did it injure that much to do a single leg or an ankle pick? if you want to ban leglocks fine
Judo= Jocking waza .
Not forbidden in jiu-jitsu
urigatogeshiymas
🙇🏻♂️
Bring these techniques back
High level black belts can do them
@@Chadi They look hard to do
@@darylfields that's because they are
Judo should go back to it's roots. Go back to time before judo became Olympic sport.
No way. Back to real jujitsu is bad news. Real jujitsu is for maiming and killing.
If you want to watch real jujitsu, ironically, watch WWE.
They changed the "jitsu" to "do" long long ago.
Kenjitsu - Kendo
Akijitsu - Aikido
Jujitsu - Judo
Karatedo
Once you go "do" you don't go back. It doesn't rhyme, but it is true.
All of this is alive and well in BJJ. Why not try bjj to learn some things judo don't allow.
Maybe when i master my Judo.
BJJ is the reverse engineering of Judo back to Jujitsu. But BJJ is going through what Judo went through. To make BJJ safer, BJJ will become Judo.
You cannot swim against the current of Time.
Ashi-garami looks awful 😱 I can tell why it's forbidden.
Chadi, would you ever consider posting these videos in French? I'm trying to learn French and one of the best ways might be through listening to something I'm passionate about.
I thought about it, but there's no time
Hi Chadi. I want to hear your perspective as a martial artist.
What do you think about modern sport compared to ancient martial arts?
Classic example: tennis vs. kendo.
One is safe, no contact (except the ball). The other is kinda dangerous.
Can you live in a world without martial arts?
No American football, only soccer.
No kendo, only tennis.
Western chess and Chinese Chess, and Rome: Total War.
Tennis alone can substitute for boxing, judo, kendo, H.E.M.A., slingshot (David and Goliath).
Poker (you've got to know when to hold'em . . .)
Dance battles instead of real battles.
Dozens: A formalized verbal combat of telling a dozen of "your mamma" jokes.
Ballet instead of Karate. (Ballet is more dangerous than Karate)
Ball games. Basketball, baseball, volleyball, tennis. (tennis should be called tennisball), etc . . .
WWE Smackdown! on the latest Playstation.
Throwing a javelin for distance as opposed to throwing a javelin to hunt an animal for food
Can you live in a world where our physical skills and intellectual skills can rise but take out the pain and the injury?
Then we would have achieved "the art of fighting without fighting."
Fantastic 😍💋 💝💖♥️❤️
Really nice 👌 😍💋 💝💖❤️