Great video. I have opted for aero bars on all of the bikes I use for long rides, no matter the surface. I refer to them as "comfort bars" vs aero bars. They provide another hand position as well as a bit of saddle and muscle use relief. The taller risers (and extra thick pads) are something that most shots don't stock or tell people about.
I'm so happy I found your channel. I've been researching the topic of using aerobars for long rides and like you said, there's not a ton of information about it. Seems like I largely came to the same conclusions, so that's reassuring. Thanks again for putting this content out there, this is so useful!
I love my aero bars. Especially for bikepacking, I can ride easy 30kp/h in the laying position for long duration…. In the normal hoods I cant ride for hours, wrists hurt and its just not comfortable
I've tried!!! Man, I've tried. I had a beautiful pair of Syntace aero bars. They were the best. But I couldn't stay in that position for very long at all. And I felt that when I used them my power suffered. Eventually I faced the facts and sold the bars on eBay. I'm glad they work for you.
Sorry they didn't work out for you James. A lot of things need to come together for them to work well on a road bike. If you ever give them another try, I'd love to hear how it goes. I'm still making little changes to position all the time, so having highly adjustable bars goes a long way. Thanks for watching!
Great video once again. You cover how it's not a simplistic debate, there are many factors. The need to use aero bars alot in a ride to offset their added drag when in the hoods is a new one to me, but makes sense.
I want your opinion on secondary brake lever sets at the aero bars with split brake line solutions, making it possible to assign two brake levers to a single caliper and solving the brake lever accessibility issue with an added compromise on steering, as there will be even more inertia from the faraway brake levers. There seem to be two decent-looking cable-actuated solutions. • Jtek Double Control Brake Cable Splitter • Problem Solvers Cable Doubler And for hydraulic brakes, I was able to find two: • Magura T-Piece Hose Splitter • Trialtech Sport Hose Splitter V2 The problem is that I couldn’t find any explicit long-term reviews on these, and I don’t want to discover their reliability after crashing into a car. I am considering a clip-on aero bar setup for the aero-gain while still enjoying the handling of a road bike. The safety concern of break lever accessibility from the aero bars you mentioned is one of the biggest reasons holding me back from clip-ons, besides the costs of new components and bike fit. FYI, I am running rim brakes.
Hi John, I've looked into those over the years but not pulled the trigger yet. From what I understand, the hydraulic options are for a 1 lever:2 caliper system, and not intended for the other way around. There could be complications with pressurizing the unused hydraulic lever each use of the brakes. I imagine the brake bleed on those would be a nightmare. Perhaps greater risk of air ingress too, moving from 2 to 6 fittings. I wrote off such a system for hydraulic brakes. The cable versions seem to be more straight forward in use and mechanically simple. The Jtek had been the most attractive option to me, as the problem solvers are bulky. Regular checks that the cable quality and clamping mechanisms are in working order should be enough for reliability. Funny enough, moving to cable discs to use the Jtek cable doubler and to electronic shifting has been on my radar for my next bike build. It would be great to allow better control from the aero bars.
Thanks for your insight, David. I would never have thought of bleeding issues since I had never owned a hydraulic disc brake bike. However, I'm afraid I have to disagree with the hydraulic hose splitters being for one lever and two caliper systems; it is the other way around: the splitter is for contacting two levers to a single caliper. Here is my reasoning: • In the case of a single lever connected to two calipers, the piston of the lever might not displace enough fluid to activate two separate calipers. • On the other hand, when one of the levers displaces fluid in a system of two levers connected to a single caliper, only the pistons at the caliper have space to move. At the same time, another lever’s piston has nowhere to move in the direction it is pushed. Maybe you saw the “Outbraker Booster Brake Splitter:” a single lever connected to two calipers for people who can only use one hand to actuate the brakes on their bike. I believe the product has hydraulic trickery in the split junction. You probably have considered it, but just in case, in the early 2010s, companies made these cable-to-hydraulic conversion junctions attached beneath the stem. It is not much of a bleeding nightmare compared to regular hydraulic systems, and it shortens wire cable length. I guess the difficult questions are: • The compatibility of components between decades, as I’m not sure if hydraulic housing diameter or caliper piston bore sizes have changed. • How to work on the cable management with the tight space underneath the handlebars. • Also, “if keeping the Shimano hydraulic calipers is worth the hassle compared to the plug-and-play caliper solutions from the aftermarket brands.” Nevertheless, there are three converters I was able to find: • Hope V-Twin • TRP Paradox • Giant Conduct SL I couldn’t find any still in production, but you might get a lucky grab on eBay; the giant ones seem to be the most available, although it confines you to use Giant’s stems instead of the multi-link suspension stem you like.
I thought that the air inside the hydraulic brake system was boiled brake fluid from the heated rotors during braking rather than outside air getting in. My bike mechanics/repair instructor told me that was why Shimano brakes have to be bled more often because those specify the use of a more environmentally friendly brake fluid for PR.
@@johnkim3858 The two hydraulic splitters you mentioned are for Magura brakes (and fittings). They made hydraulic rim brakes and levers which benefited from a T junction to evenly allocate hydraulic fluid to each side of the caliper. The stock setup had a main inlet plus a little mini hose from one side to the other. They also dabbled in disc rotors on both sides of the wheel for MTB I think. Different function than the Outbraker system. In lieu of old splitters for hydro disc, which had poor reputations, you may find good performance from TRP HyRd or Juintech hybrid calipers. Easier to set up, better performance. The TRPs are especially well regarded. They keep some hydraulic fluid in the caliper, which is actuated by a standard brake cable. It could use the Jtek splitter. I think these benefit from stiff compressionless cable housing. Personally, I lean towards Growtac cable brakes, but may opt for the TRP depending on price.
Hopefully they work out for you. They can be fiddly and it takes a some time to adjust to them even if you get everything right. Happy this could be helpful for you.
Thank you (again) for the informed presentation. Your discussion of essential concepts are vitally helpful. Producing such high quality content must require significant effort. I always learn something and able to apply that knowledge immediately. My quest is to simply increase comfort while riding in the saddle. Simple, but elusive!
I appreciate the kind words, Horsham. I did the first brevet of the year last week and finished feeling a strange lack of pain and soreness. Hope these videos are helpful for you.
@@overbikedrandonneuring I think they worked out that the rule made the tri bars more dangerous. I’ll try to find the wording but they say something like “we recommend you don’t use them when in a large group/peloton”
You're what they call a 'smile talker' ! But despite that, I got a lot out of this vid, thanks. :). One thing I'd mention is that, in my opinion, the cleat position needs to change slightly when switching from regular road-bike position to aero bar position (with the seat shifted forward). I use the redshift switch seat post to move into and out of the aero bars, and flat pedals so my feet can find a good position.
Ha, probably a habit I picked up from when I used to teach little kids. I think I still do that teaching Uni students now. I forgot about cleat position since I've slammed my cleats all the way back for over a decade now. That and a short pedal stack height also helps with hip angle. I'll amend the description.
Just stumbled upon your channel and you seem to have a similar approach and philosophy to equipment and long distance riding as me (be efficient and quick). I actually use my aero road bike, a Trek Madone, for the long epic rides. The handlebars are airfoil shaped so there's nowhere to bolt on aerobars. However, Trek did make an adapter plate for the stem and the aerobars from the previous generation Speed Concept can be mounted. It's a nice option but the downside is that my fit options are rather limited. It's not ideal for ultra long distance rides but if I raise the handlebar stack, its not that bad. Still likely on the aggressive side. May pay for it with neck and low back pain. At least with the eTap Clics installed in the ends, I don't have to get out of the aero position to shift.
Great bike Matthew. I rarely suffer bike envy, but your setup is really cool. Looks like the Madone aero bar setup offers some extra stack and plenty of fore-aft adjustability. Looking at the geo charts, a full complement of spacers under the handlebar might give a good endurance fit. I'd love to pick up an Isospeed Madone frame one day. I mentioned it in my video on riding comfortable bikes using some phrase like 'cutting edge' or 'pinnacle of design'. Wireless blips would be icing on the cake. Thanks for the comments!
I agree these are wonderful. A reckless rider wrecked my neck, so I can't use them anymore. Good for an extra 2mph easily, my track bike became faster than my road bike. Aero bars not on the bike when I was injured. Not good for riders with eyelid ptosis either.
My riding is fine. I got a bike with high stack height and compact bars. Not sure about endurance past 100km. It's 24x36 granny gear should keep me in zone 2 on just about any hill! Topstone isn't a fast bike, but is very smooth and has Lizard Skin 4.6mm bar tape. @@overbikedrandonneuring
How's it going, David? Good to see you here on your own channel producing useful content on a topic we love! Hope to see you out on the road again soon. I'll try to get down to Gwangju for a brevet soon. I'm seriously thinking of trying out that tri saddle you recommended on my indoor setup--looks comfy for both forward and back positions. Haven't pulled the trigger just yet, but I'm definitely tempted; I'm not too impressed with the narrow front portion of the one I'm currently using when I scoot up into puppy-dog--the wider nose on the one you suggested looks way more comfy.
Good to hear from you Jason! I'd always been curious about making videos, and it's been fun. I'll be attempting all the Gwangju series rides until mid May at least. It would be great to ride along with you, at least for as long as I can keep pace. You should come try the Synchros out before you buy it. Let me know when your in town and we can grab some dinner too.
Good info. The tririg scoops you mention are really good for brevets. I think you nail the challenge of aerobars. They are fantastic for brevets if you don’t try and get too far forward and create an overly aggressive tt position. These positions are awful for 200-300 mile days. Everybody who has brought a TT bike on the TransAM race has dnfd. My experience is you can get major areo gains with these and still be very comfortable and not ruin the way the bike rides. I also agree with your comments about the saddle. For me an ISM is working well. I have tried so many but keep coming back the ISM.
Thank you for the kind words Carlos. Did you race in the TransAM? If so, what was your setup like? I'd need a Marc Soler stack of spacers to use a TT bike for brevets. Hope to get my hands on some Scoops or other full arm supporting cup/extension combo soon. An aero position is only aero for as long as you can hold it, and more arm support probably helps a great deal. The Syncros has been amazing for me so far, but the ISM is waiting in the closet if a change is needed. Cheers!
@@overbikedrandonneuring I used Profile Design aerobars with a 6 cm riser kit on a Giant Propel. They come in an amazing range of 1-7 cm. Add a Ceegee pad and your good to go. For a race this long I found your aerobars are going to need to be higher than even a 1200k. Close to even with the saddle is ideal. Shermers neck strikes many out there pushing hard on the front. Once it gets you it’s a nightmare as there is no recovery until you quit ( unless you want to use a neck brace. Awful ). 165 cranks were really helpful for me on TransAM as well a more mid-foot cleat position using an adapter. This makes Achilles issues much less of a concern. They cause many riders to dnf a few days in as the shock of long hard days in succession causes Achilles tendinitis. Saddles are strange. Many RAAm riders like the Infinity Saddle. I can’t get used to it. Thanks for the great content.
@@nockee Thanks for sharing! I always love hearing from those with so much experience and expertise. My front end is higher than a Propel, but a little extra height for the aero bars would still be nice. I finally sourced GRX 165 cranks a few weeks ago and it's a marked improvement for the aero position.
@@overbikedrandonneuring what Syncros saddle do you use? Did you need to use a non setback seatpost or were you able to use a standard one with setback?
@@nockee My Redshift Shockstop Pro seatpost has 7mm of setback, and the saddle is slammed forward. 73* seat tube angle. End result is suitable. The seat is here: www.syncros.com/global/en/product/syncros-belcarra-v-1-0-tri-cut-out-saddle
Brilliant video. I'm mostly riding on the M7 cycleway in Sydney and also in Thailand. Wouldn't bother with them in Sydney but I plan to try and ride the length of New Zealand over Summer and they would be handy for giving my hands a rest during all the day long rides if there is some relatively flat straight sections of road. Also good for the SkyLane in Bangkok
Thanks! Yeah, aero bars are risky in urban cycling like a crowded multi-use path. I do recommend practicing with them before relying on them for a trip or tour though. It takes several rides to get used to the handling, and potentially many rides to build up the support muscles to use them for long periods of time without soreness. Good luck on your trip! The SkyLane path in Bangkok looks like a nice place to exercise.
the formula for "aero watts" should be proportional to (net_headwind)^2*ground_speed. work is force times distance (in this case force exerted on ground times distance travelled relative to ground), so the headwind effect should not affect this "third" velocity factor.
Good point! I was unaware of this distinction, so thank you for sharing. That could make a difference when calculating pacing strategies in headwinds and tailwinds. Substituting net headwind for groundspeed for the 3rd factor would also overvalue aero savings when a slow rider like randonneurs account for headwind. I'll account for this in the future.
Kudos for doing a long bike commute so often. I wouldn't have thought to add aero bars to a commuting bike. Is QC for Quebec City? Beautiful city and great countryside nearby.
@@overbikedrandonneuring There is a nasty headwind almost everyday when I get home so it's a must for me. I also commute with gravel bike soon to be replaced by a endurance road bike!
@@JohnnyRabbitQC Also a wonderful city. We'd always go grocery shopping when visiting or passing through from Kingston. Amazing how much better the food and drink is there haha.
Thank you very much for your very informative video. I'd have liked a link or a name of the armrests you have mounted. I found them: they are called PRO Missile. Around a 100 bucks - give or take. They are an interesting alternative to the "Fred bar".
The Fred Bar is interesting, but probably best for flat bar bike with very long top tubes. I wouldn't recommend the Pro Missile though. The hex bolts they use are easily stripped, and the spacer set has poor availability, a stupid price, and must be purchased from local distributors. They've been out of stock here for over a year. Instead Profile Designs make a few similar products with stronger bolts and better access to spacers.
@@overbikedrandonneuringthank you for this video. Very helpful. Do have any updates on aero bar choices? The PD link seems to be to a product no longer available. I looked over the PD site and did not see a good alternative. Plus, it would be great to have flip up arm pads. Asking for a lot I know. Thank you!!
@@berniekeene868 Shame, that level of adjustability is needed, and Shimano seem to be phasing theirs out too. I'm testing out some carbon aliexpress bars shaped for forearm support now as proof of concept. I'll need to add some closed cell foam to actually get that support, but the concept seems very strong with my initial rides. I'll follow up with either some Deda Jet or a variant of the close backed TriRig Scoops next. The latter has lots of adjustability for fit. If I can swing the price, I'd love to get the TriRig Scoops Ultimate.
Hi Andrew, I'd like to hear about the riding you do with it to compare it with my experience. I used the Redshift Switch seatpost on my primary bikes for about 3 years, but no longer use it. I found it's best suited to achieve a more aggressive aero bar position that mimics a triathlon/TT bike. The front position allows arm cups over the handlebars to work great, so non-adjustable bars were fine. While handling suffered, it was easy to pop back into the normal position when the need arose. The aero position it encourages was quite fast, but ultimately not sustainable for me on randonneuring length rides. It was also quite stiff and the faff of frequently moving back and forth took away from the riding experience, so I didn't mention it here. It's a very good product, but seemed to be for a use-case outside the scope of my channel. Perhaps I'm wrong though, what do you think? @JulianZeezer, I'd appreciate your input too.
@@overbikedrandonneuring I’m just starting my randonneuring journey and have been using the seatpost for rides up to 8 hours 230km+. I’m really happy with my position from an aerodynamics perspective and seem to be able to tolerate the more aggressive position okay. So far it takes only
Cheers David, extremely useful stuff in the video, beutifully presented!!!! I'm currently looking into getting aerobars for endurance, too. I notice that you recommend the Profile Design Sonic Ergo 4525, but in the video you have the Pro Missile AL installed on your bike. One advantage of the Pro Missile is that the armrest can move independently front and back and this in my eyes would seem huge in terms of both fit and PBP rule compliance. Which one of them are you currently using and why? Does the Ergo 4525 offer some other benefit that is not obvious to my untrained eyes?
Thank you! No local availability of the 4525 extensions when I was replacing my old Deda aero bars. I was hoping to pair them with the Profile J2 bracket to get the same adjustability as the Pro Missile. Profile has better aftermarket support than Shimano and more robust bolts (M5 vs M4) so I'd recommend them if you can still find the J2 bracket. I currently can't get new pads or spacers for the Shimano bars, and they have strict international shipping rules so I can't purchase from a retailer abroad. Ceegees pads cost a ton when shipping is added. I'm currently saving my pennies for modern extensions that support the forearm to test, but for alloy extensions I would prefer the 4525 extensions to the 45* extensions to get a more neutral wrist angle. All in all, Profile seems to be a much better choice between the two.
@@overbikedrandonneuring I see! Jeez, we need an aerobars video!! 😁 "modern extensions that support the forearm" -> Do you mean something like the Deda Jet One?
@@georgeperantinos4157 Yes, the Deda Jet are an example of those. Profile, Drag to Zero, and Vision make just the extensions. I'm most interested in a full system like the Jet and be looking out for some deals.
the graphic at 9:50 is incorrect, you clearly don't know much about mountain bikes geo because a major trend in the industry is for steeper effective seat tube angles, 75 degrees is typical, and many brands are pushing into the upper 70s. Mountain bikers are typically only seated for when they're going uphill, and this simply compensates for the uphill tilt of the ground. It is especially important for full sus bikes where the shift of weight back from uphill tilt compresses the rear suspension and decompresses the front suspension, and creates a runaway effect where the weight then moves even further backwards.
@ardaonen260 if that's a recent change, then I wouldn't be up to date on it. Last time I was moderately invested in MTBs, the Grim Donut was just a joke. I'll add this to the list of things that make me feel old.
The aero bar is a Pro Missile from Shimano, but a bit older model. I'm testing some carbon ones that support more of the arm and they are nice. Hopefully they last, since they are from AliExpress.
Sorry, I don't quite understand the question. My cables exit the bar tape and curve back towards the frame, while the aero bar clamps are right next to the stem. Ideally, the cables and clamp never rub each other.
Hi! I just found out about these spacers watching your video. I haven’t heard about them ever before. I’m really looking forward for a solution like these, to raise the aerobars a little more the normal because all I want is comfort and other position to lean on, instead performance gains. Then my question is, how do you call these spacers so I can try to find them online to buy? Will they fit in any aerobar, “compatibility-wise”? Is there any standard model that I should buy? Thank you for this video.
Thanks for the feedback, I bet you will enjoy spacers. Even for round bars, aero bar clamps have slightly different geometries, so there isn't a universal clamp. Some also use different bolt sizes and thread pitches. You will want to look for spacers specific to your model of bar. Profile Designs sells an 'Aerobar Bracket Rider Kit' while Shimano versions are named Spacer Sets and DEDA are Riser Spacers Kit.
I use aluminum handlebars with a clamp area wide enough for aero bars. Cheap FSA or Deda bars are my usual choice. I wouldn't feel comfortable clamping onto carbon. For carbon, something like the Vision M.A.S. bar would be my choice, but it is too expensive.
You'll want to use spacers that match your aero bars. These are 30mm spacers from Profile Designs called 'Aerobar Bracket Riser Kit'. Unfortunately, Shimano doesn't stock their riser kit in my country and have blocked importing them, so I bodged the Profile Designs spacer with Shimano compatible bolts rather than buying a new set of aero bars. I do not recommend anyone do the same bodge, and will be swapping bars for next season.
Just measured, and my saddle and the back of the arm cups are both 101cm from the floor. The front of the arms cups are 102cm due to the angle. I wouldn't mind them being a tad higher, but it's suitable now. Hope that helps!
@@overbikedrandonneuring helps alot. I just got Shermer neck on a 780 mile ultra where I was pushing hard with little sleep. I had to drop out with 100 miles to go as I was not able to hold up head. I am testing a higher position 2 cms over the saddle that I could use in the future if I get symptoms. I can see ahead with zero neck cranking with this position. Having this higher position from the get go or adjusting on the fly i case of symptoms seems like a great option for me in the future.
@@nockee Brutal! A higher position should help hopefully. I'd happily go my whole life avoiding Schermer's neck. You can't really get full sleep and recovery in a race context though. I may be an outlier in this belief, but I would welcome seeing mandatory sleep requirements in ultra-racing to reduce issues like that. Good luck with adjustments! I'd appreciate reporting on how it goes.
@@overbikedrandonneuring Good thought. I think it has more potential of occurring on a race like this where you can push your self so hard because the end seems near and a time cut or goal is driving people. It seems quite a few PBP riders get it for this reason. I had no issues on much longer races as I was consistent on at least 3 hours of sleep.
@@overbikedrandonneuring Got the Stride TT saddle which is the same as the Belcarra. Really nice saddle. One issue is the rails are short. Did you have to use a less set back post for it or were you good to go ? I’m right on the edge. Thanks for the top. It’s a top shelf long saddle for sure.
Amazing content as usual. Inspired by a very oldie channel (funnzie ruclips.net/video/qiPFg3rCJQc/видео.html ) I got a set of aerobars in an effort to make a hardtail slightly more usable in long distance. Quite happy with the add on, the change in position is even more useful with the flat bars and the average speed increased as well. Worth the funny looks from other cyclists. Quickly ran into the saddle situation you mention here, changed it forwards with a slight tilt and it helps, best thing will probably be your suggestion. For bikepacking ended up going for a floating rear rack with a inline bag for ease of use, again inspired by Funnzie. As it shouldn't be too bad aero wise. Will do my second 200km in a few weeks with these upgrades, plus tpu tubes and your drink mix and see how my time improves from the first experience. Thank you for the inspiration.
Thanks for the feedback Paulo. Funnzie's video reminds me of the Giant Escape is converted to drop bars years ago. Flat bar bikes are pretty common in brevets. The one I did last Wednesday had 3 hybrids and 3 folding bikes at the start line. You may have a really long top tube on a flat bar bike, so adjustable bars might be quite useful. A commenter below mentioned the Fred Bar for a similar effect. Hardtails with aero bars are very common on the bike paths here in Korea. Don't let the looks get to you. I've adjusted my drink mix a bit lately to lean more towards plain sugar and salt and less dextrose/maltodextrin. Been playing with saturation levels too. I can drink more calories over time with a light dose, so 80g-100g per 800ml bottle has been going well. I'll make an update to that video soon after I find some good convenience store drinks that do well with unflavored sugar/salt mix that can be prepared on the road. Good luck on your ride!
Great video. I have opted for aero bars on all of the bikes I use for long rides, no matter the surface. I refer to them as "comfort bars" vs aero bars. They provide another hand position as well as a bit of saddle and muscle use relief. The taller risers (and extra thick pads) are something that most shots don't stock or tell people about.
Well done! The flatter and/or longer the course the more aero bars make sense. If riding alone they also make a lot of sense.
I'm so happy I found your channel. I've been researching the topic of using aerobars for long rides and like you said, there's not a ton of information about it. Seems like I largely came to the same conclusions, so that's reassuring. Thanks again for putting this content out there, this is so useful!
Glad you found it useful! Let me know if there are any topics you would like to see covered. Always looking to help others succeed at long rides.
I love my aero bars. Especially for bikepacking, I can ride easy 30kp/h in the laying position for long duration…. In the normal hoods I cant ride for hours, wrists hurt and its just not comfortable
I've tried!!! Man, I've tried. I had a beautiful pair of Syntace aero bars. They were the best. But I couldn't stay in that position for very long at all. And I felt that when I used them my power suffered. Eventually I faced the facts and sold the bars on eBay. I'm glad they work for you.
Sorry they didn't work out for you James. A lot of things need to come together for them to work well on a road bike. If you ever give them another try, I'd love to hear how it goes. I'm still making little changes to position all the time, so having highly adjustable bars goes a long way. Thanks for watching!
Great video once again. You cover how it's not a simplistic debate, there are many factors. The need to use aero bars alot in a ride to offset their added drag when in the hoods is a new one to me, but makes sense.
Thank you so much for sharing your findings in this summary ❤
I want your opinion on secondary brake lever sets at the aero bars with split brake line solutions, making it possible to assign two brake levers to a single caliper and solving the brake lever accessibility issue with an added compromise on steering, as there will be even more inertia from the faraway brake levers.
There seem to be two decent-looking cable-actuated solutions.
• Jtek Double Control Brake Cable Splitter
• Problem Solvers Cable Doubler
And for hydraulic brakes, I was able to find two:
• Magura T-Piece Hose Splitter
• Trialtech Sport Hose Splitter V2
The problem is that I couldn’t find any explicit long-term reviews on these, and I don’t want to discover their reliability after crashing into a car.
I am considering a clip-on aero bar setup for the aero-gain while still enjoying the handling of a road bike.
The safety concern of break lever accessibility from the aero bars you mentioned is one of the biggest reasons holding me back from clip-ons, besides the costs of new components and bike fit.
FYI, I am running rim brakes.
Hi John, I've looked into those over the years but not pulled the trigger yet.
From what I understand, the hydraulic options are for a 1 lever:2 caliper system, and not intended for the other way around. There could be complications with pressurizing the unused hydraulic lever each use of the brakes. I imagine the brake bleed on those would be a nightmare. Perhaps greater risk of air ingress too, moving from 2 to 6 fittings. I wrote off such a system for hydraulic brakes.
The cable versions seem to be more straight forward in use and mechanically simple. The Jtek had been the most attractive option to me, as the problem solvers are bulky. Regular checks that the cable quality and clamping mechanisms are in working order should be enough for reliability.
Funny enough, moving to cable discs to use the Jtek cable doubler and to electronic shifting has been on my radar for my next bike build. It would be great to allow better control from the aero bars.
Thanks for your insight, David. I would never have thought of bleeding issues since I had never owned a hydraulic disc brake bike.
However, I'm afraid I have to disagree with the hydraulic hose splitters being for one lever and two caliper systems; it is the other way around: the splitter is for contacting two levers to a single caliper. Here is my reasoning:
• In the case of a single lever connected to two calipers, the piston of the lever might not displace enough fluid to activate two separate calipers.
• On the other hand, when one of the levers displaces fluid in a system of two levers connected to a single caliper, only the pistons at the caliper have space to move. At the same time, another lever’s piston has nowhere to move in the direction it is pushed.
Maybe you saw the “Outbraker Booster Brake Splitter:” a single lever connected to two calipers for people who can only use one hand to actuate the brakes on their bike. I believe the product has hydraulic trickery in the split junction.
You probably have considered it, but just in case, in the early 2010s, companies made these cable-to-hydraulic conversion junctions attached beneath the stem. It is not much of a bleeding nightmare compared to regular hydraulic systems, and it shortens wire cable length.
I guess the difficult questions are:
• The compatibility of components between decades, as I’m not sure if hydraulic housing diameter or caliper piston bore sizes have changed.
• How to work on the cable management with the tight space underneath the handlebars.
• Also, “if keeping the Shimano hydraulic calipers is worth the hassle compared to the plug-and-play caliper solutions from the aftermarket brands.”
Nevertheless, there are three converters I was able to find:
• Hope V-Twin
• TRP Paradox
• Giant Conduct SL
I couldn’t find any still in production, but you might get a lucky grab on eBay; the giant ones seem to be the most available, although it confines you to use Giant’s stems instead of the multi-link suspension stem you like.
I thought that the air inside the hydraulic brake system was boiled brake fluid from the heated rotors during braking rather than outside air getting in. My bike mechanics/repair instructor told me that was why Shimano brakes have to be bled more often because those specify the use of a more environmentally friendly brake fluid for PR.
@@johnkim3858 The two hydraulic splitters you mentioned are for Magura brakes (and fittings). They made hydraulic rim brakes and levers which benefited from a T junction to evenly allocate hydraulic fluid to each side of the caliper. The stock setup had a main inlet plus a little mini hose from one side to the other. They also dabbled in disc rotors on both sides of the wheel for MTB I think. Different function than the Outbraker system.
In lieu of old splitters for hydro disc, which had poor reputations, you may find good performance from TRP HyRd or Juintech hybrid calipers. Easier to set up, better performance. The TRPs are especially well regarded. They keep some hydraulic fluid in the caliper, which is actuated by a standard brake cable. It could use the Jtek splitter. I think these benefit from stiff compressionless cable housing.
Personally, I lean towards Growtac cable brakes, but may opt for the TRP depending on price.
Thanks for the video mate! Very timely, thinking to get them, given me a lot to think about
Hopefully they work out for you. They can be fiddly and it takes a some time to adjust to them even if you get everything right. Happy this could be helpful for you.
Thank you (again) for the informed presentation. Your discussion of essential concepts are vitally helpful. Producing such high quality content must require significant effort. I always learn something and able to apply that knowledge immediately. My quest is to simply increase comfort while riding in the saddle. Simple, but elusive!
I appreciate the kind words, Horsham. I did the first brevet of the year last week and finished feeling a strange lack of pain and soreness. Hope these videos are helpful for you.
Thank you for the video! You provided some insight that I had not found elsewhere that will definitely inform my decisions about aero bars.
Thank you Ben! I appreciate your kind feedback and hope the video was helpful.
I had heard the tri bar limits for Paris Brest Paris 2023 have been removed.
Happy to hear that! The 2019 rules didn't make much sense to me, and the explanation on the PBP Facebook page was not very strong.
@@overbikedrandonneuring I think they worked out that the rule made the tri bars more dangerous. I’ll try to find the wording but they say something like “we recommend you don’t use them when in a large group/peloton”
Yeah, seems like it would easy to whack knees on the cups with that rule. Hopefully everyone uses good sense and avoids them in a large group.
You're what they call a 'smile talker' ! But despite that, I got a lot out of this vid, thanks. :). One thing I'd mention is that, in my opinion, the cleat position needs to change slightly when switching from regular road-bike position to aero bar position (with the seat shifted forward). I use the redshift switch seat post to move into and out of the aero bars, and flat pedals so my feet can find a good position.
Ha, probably a habit I picked up from when I used to teach little kids. I think I still do that teaching Uni students now. I forgot about cleat position since I've slammed my cleats all the way back for over a decade now. That and a short pedal stack height also helps with hip angle. I'll amend the description.
great content. this is what I was waiting for. THX
I prioritized getting this video out next based on your comment. Glad to hear you liked it!
Just stumbled upon your channel and you seem to have a similar approach and philosophy to equipment and long distance riding as me (be efficient and quick). I actually use my aero road bike, a Trek Madone, for the long epic rides. The handlebars are airfoil shaped so there's nowhere to bolt on aerobars. However, Trek did make an adapter plate for the stem and the aerobars from the previous generation Speed Concept can be mounted. It's a nice option but the downside is that my fit options are rather limited. It's not ideal for ultra long distance rides but if I raise the handlebar stack, its not that bad. Still likely on the aggressive side. May pay for it with neck and low back pain. At least with the eTap Clics installed in the ends, I don't have to get out of the aero position to shift.
Great bike Matthew. I rarely suffer bike envy, but your setup is really cool. Looks like the Madone aero bar setup offers some extra stack and plenty of fore-aft adjustability. Looking at the geo charts, a full complement of spacers under the handlebar might give a good endurance fit. I'd love to pick up an Isospeed Madone frame one day. I mentioned it in my video on riding comfortable bikes using some phrase like 'cutting edge' or 'pinnacle of design'. Wireless blips would be icing on the cake. Thanks for the comments!
That's out for me since a neck injury. I enjoyed using them and the injury isn't related to their use.
Sorry to hear about that David. Have you moved to a very upright position to avoid neck pain, or have you considered a recumbent bicycle?
Professional level video...
I agree these are wonderful. A reckless rider wrecked my neck, so I can't use them anymore. Good for an extra 2mph easily, my track bike became faster than my road bike. Aero bars not on the bike when I was injured. Not good for riders with eyelid ptosis either.
Sorry to hear about your injury. How is regular riding now? With neck problems, have you considered a recumbent bike?
My riding is fine. I got a bike with high stack height and compact bars. Not sure about endurance past 100km. It's 24x36 granny gear should keep me in zone 2 on just about any hill! Topstone isn't a fast bike, but is very smooth and has Lizard Skin 4.6mm bar tape. @@overbikedrandonneuring
How's it going, David? Good to see you here on your own channel producing useful content on a topic we love! Hope to see you out on the road again soon. I'll try to get down to Gwangju for a brevet soon. I'm seriously thinking of trying out that tri saddle you recommended on my indoor setup--looks comfy for both forward and back positions. Haven't pulled the trigger just yet, but I'm definitely tempted; I'm not too impressed with the narrow front portion of the one I'm currently using when I scoot up into puppy-dog--the wider nose on the one you suggested looks way more comfy.
Good to hear from you Jason! I'd always been curious about making videos, and it's been fun. I'll be attempting all the Gwangju series rides until mid May at least. It would be great to ride along with you, at least for as long as I can keep pace. You should come try the Synchros out before you buy it. Let me know when your in town and we can grab some dinner too.
@@overbikedrandonneuring Sounds like a plan, amigo. I'll let you know next time I'm in town. 🤓👍
Good info. The tririg scoops you mention are really good for brevets. I think you nail the challenge of aerobars. They are fantastic for brevets if you don’t try and get too far forward and create an overly aggressive tt position. These positions are awful for 200-300 mile days. Everybody who has brought a TT bike on the TransAM race has dnfd. My experience is you can get major areo gains with these and still be very comfortable and not ruin the way the bike rides. I also agree with your comments about the saddle. For me an ISM is working well. I have tried so many but keep coming back the ISM.
Thank you for the kind words Carlos. Did you race in the TransAM? If so, what was your setup like? I'd need a Marc Soler stack of spacers to use a TT bike for brevets. Hope to get my hands on some Scoops or other full arm supporting cup/extension combo soon. An aero position is only aero for as long as you can hold it, and more arm support probably helps a great deal. The Syncros has been amazing for me so far, but the ISM is waiting in the closet if a change is needed. Cheers!
@@overbikedrandonneuring I used Profile Design aerobars with a 6 cm riser kit on a Giant Propel. They come in an amazing range of 1-7 cm. Add a Ceegee pad and your good to go. For a race this long I found your aerobars are going to need to be higher than even a 1200k. Close to even with the saddle is ideal. Shermers neck strikes many out there pushing hard on the front. Once it gets you it’s a nightmare as there is no recovery until you quit ( unless you want to use a neck brace. Awful ). 165 cranks were really helpful for me on TransAM as well a more mid-foot cleat position using an adapter. This makes Achilles issues much less of a concern. They cause many riders to dnf a few days in as the shock of long hard days in succession causes Achilles tendinitis. Saddles are strange. Many RAAm riders like the Infinity Saddle. I can’t get used to it. Thanks for the great content.
@@nockee Thanks for sharing! I always love hearing from those with so much experience and expertise. My front end is higher than a Propel, but a little extra height for the aero bars would still be nice. I finally sourced GRX 165 cranks a few weeks ago and it's a marked improvement for the aero position.
@@overbikedrandonneuring what Syncros saddle do you use? Did you need to use a non setback seatpost or were you able to use a standard one with setback?
@@nockee My Redshift Shockstop Pro seatpost has 7mm of setback, and the saddle is slammed forward. 73* seat tube angle. End result is suitable. The seat is here: www.syncros.com/global/en/product/syncros-belcarra-v-1-0-tri-cut-out-saddle
Brilliant video. I'm mostly riding on the M7 cycleway in Sydney and also in Thailand. Wouldn't bother with them in Sydney but I plan to try and ride the length of New Zealand over Summer and they would be handy for giving my hands a rest during all the day long rides if there is some relatively flat straight sections of road. Also good for the SkyLane in Bangkok
Thanks! Yeah, aero bars are risky in urban cycling like a crowded multi-use path. I do recommend practicing with them before relying on them for a trip or tour though. It takes several rides to get used to the handling, and potentially many rides to build up the support muscles to use them for long periods of time without soreness. Good luck on your trip! The SkyLane path in Bangkok looks like a nice place to exercise.
@@overbikedrandonneuring good tips. Cheers!
the formula for "aero watts" should be proportional to (net_headwind)^2*ground_speed. work is force times distance (in this case force exerted on ground times distance travelled relative to ground), so the headwind effect should not affect this "third" velocity factor.
Good point! I was unaware of this distinction, so thank you for sharing. That could make a difference when calculating pacing strategies in headwinds and tailwinds. Substituting net headwind for groundspeed for the 3rd factor would also overvalue aero savings when a slow rider like randonneurs account for headwind. I'll account for this in the future.
Outstanding video, thank you so much👍
Concise and helpful :)
Best way to get crazy fast. I ride 15km to go to work and since I use these I shorten the trip by approximately 10 minutes with aerobars.
Kudos for doing a long bike commute so often. I wouldn't have thought to add aero bars to a commuting bike. Is QC for Quebec City? Beautiful city and great countryside nearby.
@@overbikedrandonneuring I live in Montreal!
@@overbikedrandonneuring There is a nasty headwind almost everyday when I get home so it's a must for me. I also commute with gravel bike soon to be replaced by a endurance road bike!
@@JohnnyRabbitQC Also a wonderful city. We'd always go grocery shopping when visiting or passing through from Kingston. Amazing how much better the food and drink is there haha.
@@JohnnyRabbitQC Nice! What will you get?
Thank you very much for your very informative video. I'd have liked a link or a name of the armrests you have mounted. I found them: they are called PRO Missile. Around a 100 bucks - give or take. They are an interesting alternative to the "Fred bar".
The Fred Bar is interesting, but probably best for flat bar bike with very long top tubes. I wouldn't recommend the Pro Missile though. The hex bolts they use are easily stripped, and the spacer set has poor availability, a stupid price, and must be purchased from local distributors. They've been out of stock here for over a year. Instead Profile Designs make a few similar products with stronger bolts and better access to spacers.
@@overbikedrandonneuring Thanks for your reply! That helps a lot.
@@overbikedrandonneuringthank you for this video. Very helpful. Do have any updates on aero bar choices? The PD link seems to be to a product no longer available. I looked over the PD site and did not see a good alternative. Plus, it would be great to have flip up arm pads. Asking for a lot I know. Thank you!!
@@berniekeene868 Shame, that level of adjustability is needed, and Shimano seem to be phasing theirs out too. I'm testing out some carbon aliexpress bars shaped for forearm support now as proof of concept. I'll need to add some closed cell foam to actually get that support, but the concept seems very strong with my initial rides. I'll follow up with either some Deda Jet or a variant of the close backed TriRig Scoops next. The latter has lots of adjustability for fit. If I can swing the price, I'd love to get the TriRig Scoops Ultimate.
best upgrade there is probably
I use the Redshift switch seat post to change between aerobar and road positions on the fly.
Hi Andrew, I'd like to hear about the riding you do with it to compare it with my experience. I used the Redshift Switch seatpost on my primary bikes for about 3 years, but no longer use it. I found it's best suited to achieve a more aggressive aero bar position that mimics a triathlon/TT bike. The front position allows arm cups over the handlebars to work great, so non-adjustable bars were fine. While handling suffered, it was easy to pop back into the normal position when the need arose. The aero position it encourages was quite fast, but ultimately not sustainable for me on randonneuring length rides. It was also quite stiff and the faff of frequently moving back and forth took away from the riding experience, so I didn't mention it here. It's a very good product, but seemed to be for a use-case outside the scope of my channel. Perhaps I'm wrong though, what do you think? @JulianZeezer, I'd appreciate your input too.
@@overbikedrandonneuring I’m just starting my randonneuring journey and have been using the seatpost for rides up to 8 hours 230km+. I’m really happy with my position from an aerodynamics perspective and seem to be able to tolerate the more aggressive position okay. So far it takes only
Cheers David, extremely useful stuff in the video, beutifully presented!!!!
I'm currently looking into getting aerobars for endurance, too. I notice that you recommend the Profile Design Sonic Ergo 4525, but in the video you have the Pro Missile AL installed on your bike. One advantage of the Pro Missile is that the armrest can move independently front and back and this in my eyes would seem huge in terms of both fit and PBP rule compliance. Which one of them are you currently using and why? Does the Ergo 4525 offer some other benefit that is not obvious to my untrained eyes?
Thank you! No local availability of the 4525 extensions when I was replacing my old Deda aero bars. I was hoping to pair them with the Profile J2 bracket to get the same adjustability as the Pro Missile. Profile has better aftermarket support than Shimano and more robust bolts (M5 vs M4) so I'd recommend them if you can still find the J2 bracket. I currently can't get new pads or spacers for the Shimano bars, and they have strict international shipping rules so I can't purchase from a retailer abroad. Ceegees pads cost a ton when shipping is added. I'm currently saving my pennies for modern extensions that support the forearm to test, but for alloy extensions I would prefer the 4525 extensions to the 45* extensions to get a more neutral wrist angle. All in all, Profile seems to be a much better choice between the two.
@@overbikedrandonneuring I see! Jeez, we need an aerobars video!! 😁
"modern extensions that support the forearm" -> Do you mean something like the Deda Jet One?
@@georgeperantinos4157 Yes, the Deda Jet are an example of those. Profile, Drag to Zero, and Vision make just the extensions. I'm most interested in a full system like the Jet and be looking out for some deals.
the graphic at 9:50 is incorrect, you clearly don't know much about mountain bikes geo because a major trend in the industry is for steeper effective seat tube angles, 75 degrees is typical, and many brands are pushing into the upper 70s. Mountain bikers are typically only seated for when they're going uphill, and this simply compensates for the uphill tilt of the ground. It is especially important for full sus bikes where the shift of weight back from uphill tilt compresses the rear suspension and decompresses the front suspension, and creates a runaway effect where the weight then moves even further backwards.
@ardaonen260 if that's a recent change, then I wouldn't be up to date on it. Last time I was moderately invested in MTBs, the Grim Donut was just a joke. I'll add this to the list of things that make me feel old.
nice video! I was wondering which handlebar you are using?
The aero bar is a Pro Missile from Shimano, but a bit older model. I'm testing some carbon ones that support more of the arm and they are nice. Hopefully they last, since they are from AliExpress.
When mounting the aero bars should the bracket be under the cables or on top of the cables?
Sorry, I don't quite understand the question. My cables exit the bar tape and curve back towards the frame, while the aero bar clamps are right next to the stem. Ideally, the cables and clamp never rub each other.
@@overbikedrandonneuring my cables run along the handlebars to the frame nice and snug it seems
Hi! I just found out about these spacers watching your video. I haven’t heard about them ever before. I’m really looking forward for a solution like these, to raise the aerobars a little more the normal because all I want is comfort and other position to lean on, instead performance gains. Then my question is, how do you call these spacers so I can try to find them online to buy? Will they fit in any aerobar, “compatibility-wise”? Is there any standard model that I should buy? Thank you for this video.
Thanks for the feedback, I bet you will enjoy spacers. Even for round bars, aero bar clamps have slightly different geometries, so there isn't a universal clamp. Some also use different bolt sizes and thread pitches. You will want to look for spacers specific to your model of bar. Profile Designs sells an 'Aerobar Bracket Rider Kit' while Shimano versions are named Spacer Sets and DEDA are Riser Spacers Kit.
Ciao su quale manubrio hai montato le prolunghe? È un PRO?
Grazie
I use aluminum handlebars with a clamp area wide enough for aero bars. Cheap FSA or Deda bars are my usual choice. I wouldn't feel comfortable clamping onto carbon. For carbon, something like the Vision M.A.S. bar would be my choice, but it is too expensive.
Tt bars ok on my Boardman slr 8”9 bike
hello could you send the description of the spacers you are using to lift the bars?
You'll want to use spacers that match your aero bars. These are 30mm spacers from Profile Designs called 'Aerobar Bracket Riser Kit'. Unfortunately, Shimano doesn't stock their riser kit in my country and have blocked importing them, so I bodged the Profile Designs spacer with Shimano compatible bolts rather than buying a new set of aero bars. I do not recommend anyone do the same bodge, and will be swapping bars for next season.
what size are the risers your using?
30mm at the moment.
Hang on, are you in south korea?
I am, nice eye. Love riding around in the countryside here.
Is that polygon bike?
@@utama yes, I'm quite happy with it after customizing it to my needs. I'll do an update video on it soon. Approaching 11000km
@@overbikedrandonneuring wow my country product, happy to see em go international!!
Are your aerobars around the same height as your saddle? Just curious how high you have them.
Just measured, and my saddle and the back of the arm cups are both 101cm from the floor. The front of the arms cups are 102cm due to the angle. I wouldn't mind them being a tad higher, but it's suitable now. Hope that helps!
@@overbikedrandonneuring helps alot. I just got Shermer neck on a 780 mile ultra where I was pushing hard with little sleep. I had to drop out with 100 miles to go as I was not able to hold up head. I am testing a higher position 2 cms over the saddle that I could use in the future if I get symptoms. I can see ahead with zero neck cranking with this position. Having this higher position from the get go or adjusting on the fly i case of symptoms seems like a great option for me in the future.
@@nockee Brutal! A higher position should help hopefully. I'd happily go my whole life avoiding Schermer's neck. You can't really get full sleep and recovery in a race context though. I may be an outlier in this belief, but I would welcome seeing mandatory sleep requirements in ultra-racing to reduce issues like that. Good luck with adjustments! I'd appreciate reporting on how it goes.
@@overbikedrandonneuring Good thought. I think it has more potential of occurring on a race like this where you can push your self so hard because the end seems near and a time cut or goal is driving people. It seems quite a few PBP riders get it for this reason. I had no issues on much longer races as I was consistent on at least 3 hours of sleep.
@@overbikedrandonneuring Got the Stride TT saddle which is the same as the Belcarra. Really nice saddle. One issue is the rails are short. Did you have to use a less set back post for it or were you good to go ? I’m right on the edge. Thanks for the top. It’s a top shelf long saddle for sure.
Amazing content as usual.
Inspired by a very oldie channel (funnzie ruclips.net/video/qiPFg3rCJQc/видео.html ) I got a set of aerobars in an effort to make a hardtail slightly more usable in long distance.
Quite happy with the add on, the change in position is even more useful with the flat bars and the average speed increased as well.
Worth the funny looks from other cyclists.
Quickly ran into the saddle situation you mention here, changed it forwards with a slight tilt and it helps, best thing will probably be your suggestion.
For bikepacking ended up going for a floating rear rack with a inline bag for ease of use, again inspired by Funnzie. As it shouldn't be too bad aero wise.
Will do my second 200km in a few weeks with these upgrades, plus tpu tubes and your drink mix and see how my time improves from the first experience.
Thank you for the inspiration.
Thanks for the feedback Paulo. Funnzie's video reminds me of the Giant Escape is converted to drop bars years ago. Flat bar bikes are pretty common in brevets. The one I did last Wednesday had 3 hybrids and 3 folding bikes at the start line. You may have a really long top tube on a flat bar bike, so adjustable bars might be quite useful. A commenter below mentioned the Fred Bar for a similar effect. Hardtails with aero bars are very common on the bike paths here in Korea. Don't let the looks get to you. I've adjusted my drink mix a bit lately to lean more towards plain sugar and salt and less dextrose/maltodextrin. Been playing with saturation levels too. I can drink more calories over time with a light dose, so 80g-100g per 800ml bottle has been going well. I'll make an update to that video soon after I find some good convenience store drinks that do well with unflavored sugar/salt mix that can be prepared on the road. Good luck on your ride!
아니 왜 한국 도로가 나오는건데? ㅋㅋ
나는 한국에 살고 있습니다. 한국 란도너들과 함께 광주 브레베를 타는 모습을 자주 볼 수 있습니다.
@@overbikedrandonneuring 반갑습니다.
갑자기 한국이 나와서 깜짝 놀랬습니다. 영어를 못해서 알아듣지는 못하지만 잘 봤습니다.