Many of you gentlemen and/or ladies on this comment board fail to realize something: They could both rip any well muscled thug to pieces in a street fight... This is an extremely high level BRAZILIAN JIU-JITSU match. NOT a "self defense" match. They're using the point system and sport technique to win? No joke. Wow what a bunch of little geniuses you all are for spotting that. It's a jiu-jitsu tournament not vale tudo.
He is really tearing up these black belt divisions with that sweep. Watch his match with Buchecha in the 2014 world too! Cornelius is looking like he could be the future of BJJ.
What can I do against that style is what I'm after you're right nit picking is irrelevant, but jiu-jitsu is an evolutionary thing, and what we must do is steal the game back away from the guarders and stall them and force them to catch back up, when they'll swing the balance once again, and the thing starts over again that's what keeps it entertaining, but right now it's anesthetizing to watch.
Guys, quick question. Ive done a lot of karate and even one or two boxing classes at school so i knew id be good at this judo stuff. anyways i put on my tiger kimono (only get it if you can chop 6 concrete blocks) and entered my local bjj comp. the refers told us to begin combat so i proceeded to kick my opponent in the groin (legal in hardcore karate that i do) then when he covered up i pulled his hair and bit his ear. the referee immediately stopped the fight and i began to celebrate my first UFC win. but i was disqualified can someone tell me why please because i even wore 16Oz gloves so he didn't get hurt!
Keenan is smart the worm guard is the only way to not get smashed for the top levels of jiu jitsu I used to like him on brown belt he really fight bjj on that time but he knows black belt is different congrtz for him lets until when this is gonna work Oss
Is there any way to wrist lock some one with that worm guard grip, because if someone is that intent on hold me then I want to writ lock the hell out of him until he decides he likes his ability to guard than to anchor on to my lapel.
artistically great technique, and sport effective. I have already incorporated this move bc i have to. But martially - dumb. It reminds me of 50/50 without devastating leg locks
***** Martial - of or appropriate to war; warlike Dude are you serious? When an fighter uses jiu jitsu technique, whether in a cage or on the street, martial arts was expressed. When we train and fight in tournaments, it is still an expression of martial arts. What is not martial are certain techniques that would not be applicable to real life (warlike) situations. When BJJ was developed it always considered strikes in the equation, that's why all the early techniques are the ones you will mostly use to defend yourself with, and consequently are the moves you see in MMA. Modern JJ is becoming an artistic evolution of JJ, which time to time give rise to tatami/sport specific techniques. Peace
zaco21 If u think what Royce, especially Rickson, and all the other fighters that proved the efficacy of ground techniques in a MMA setting wasn't martial arts then that idea must be an opinion, of which you are entitled to your own, but of which I do not agree with. So if being able to break or kill a person isn't martial, explain that. If u think their origins from judo isn't, why? See Rousey's last fight? So to be a complete fighter u need to know how to strike, well i agree, but how does that make jiu jitsu not martial? Just because the sport looks one way, it by no means discredits the whole. think hard before you respond...
***** u must do kung fu dont u? haha jk. Look, its obvious that the idea of what defines a martial art is is subjective and therefore highly opinionated. I respect your opinion. But if the definition of martial has to do with combat, than I figure effective combative techniques as martial arts. I do not wish to categorize and enclose the horizons of ART by calling one thing MA and another not. I believe what constitutes a martial art is techniques effective in combat. To try and persuade you; picture two unarmed soldiers fighting to the death. In this example lets not categorize and label things like muay thai, wrestling boxing, jiujitsu, judo, silat, karate, kungfu, etc - I simply consider these areas of study. We must also set aside the crazed fight or flight response that can sometimes just be reflexive and empty technique. BUT, If "combative technique" is applied to win, I consider martial arts were expressed. Regardless of what technique/s, if the practitioner trained it and displayed successfully its efficacy then it is my opinion that that is martial arts. Again, its my opinion that what Martial Arts is is just this - artistic expression of techniques that are combat effective. Regardless of, in your words "style". Your arguments, regrettably, have not put forth enough substance to persuade me. I respect your opinion, i just do not agree. Lets just agree to disagree ok
people who only look for passes or staying in guard and sweep are boring, jiu jutsu is about finishing the deal, submit the person. it's boring to watch sometimes..
***** So according to you, Rickson Gracie is ignorant as hell or just a troll who just sat with Joe Rogan to talk shit and was wrong when he created a new organization (JJGF) trying to fix what we just saw in this boring match where people just go through a match "trying things"but nothing happens... Brazilian Jiujitsu is full of guys trying to win medals and is lacking of people trying to keep its core, which is self-defense.
***** You see...That's my point... As you say, your "champions" have manipulated -not the rules but the art itself- in order to find a way to win medals, they become very efficient in winning tournaments, but their jiujitsu becomes useless for self defense as they modified it merely into a sport. They will teach what they know and then, the "masters" and their students will get beat up in a real street fight situation. That's the Gracie's concern and I agree with them. I don't give a shit about "their sinful ways" or yours... I just want to let you know that you are insulting a BJJ legend when you say this: "Anyone who says fighters at this level do not go for submissions are either ignorant as hell or just trolls" You said it, right? Well, take that back, cos' it's NOT like that. Quit trolling, or at least, get a better argument. "Peace" LOOL
***** It is good that you're open minded to point out that you could be wrong because YOU ARE WRONG when you say that we are mixing "2 separate arguments here". I sincerely believe that Rickson Gracie is right...They train and are very efficient in winning tournaments....but as they focus their jiujitsu in that goal (and they're good at it), they leave behind the most impotant aspect of our beloved jiujitsu, which is self-defense... Again buddy....It's not me... check the Joe Rogan Experience with Rickson Gracie...3 great hours of wisdom for you... ;)
Está aí a diferença entre esses dois contra o Bochecha e o Rodolfo. Enquanto Lo e Keenan só querem brincar de pontuar, os campeões vão direto para a finalização. E não é questão de montar ou colocar na guarda, pois só a tentativa de imobilização já incomoda a ponto de ceder a posição.
What sad way to win... Entangle each other and hope you're on top at the end of the match. Submissions was the last thing on Keenans mind obviously and that's sad.
holy shit, if you ever need a place to test your guard out, it's here and I must say keanen had some important people in danger with that guard. . . let's see how he does when he develops it and people develop passes for it, they need to shrug that grip, it's ingenius to intertwine that lapel all over the fuckin place!
I have to admit that even though this style game can win it is so freakin boring and would not apply to self defense. I know this is sport Jiu Jitsu but I've always felt that a top game would crush on the street with a single opponent. This upside down worm stuff will get you smashed with elbows and punches etc. But these guys are great at what they do here. I'm more of a Marcelo Garcia fan. I guess it comes down to styles and motivations. I've always trained take downs, bottom game with top as my destination. And coming from a wrestling and kick boxing pedigree I'm sure I have a bias. Been doing Jits for about 6 years and love it. They would kick my butt...Only my opinion...
Knight Solaire Good point. Maybe because I grew up in Detroit I'm biased. I've had many fights when younger that I could not avoid...Most ended up with ground and pound....I'm to old to be fighting anyhow LOL. I'll stick with Jits....
Keenan is a BJJ genius but to be honest BJJ is becoming less a martial art and more a knitting circle. I love bjj but this just sucks. All guard pulling, butt scooting and all lapel guards should be banned. It is the only way to save BJJ as an effective combat sport.
Many of you gentlemen and/or ladies on this comment board fail to realize something: They could both rip any well muscled thug to pieces in a street fight... This is an extremely high level BRAZILIAN JIU-JITSU match. NOT a "self defense" match. They're using the point system and sport technique to win? No joke. Wow what a bunch of little geniuses you all are for spotting that. It's a jiu-jitsu tournament not vale tudo.
4:48 Ref got the sauce
This is nuts, seeing as how Keenan has quite a Lo-influenced style
He is really tearing up these black belt divisions with that sweep. Watch his match with Buchecha in the 2014 world too! Cornelius is looking like he could be the future of BJJ.
Yo
I heard Keenan say he models his game after Lo.
Jits has evolved, this is what its become so accept it. To pick at someones style is quite irrelevant considering you have a choice to find your own.
What can I do against that style is what I'm after you're right nit picking is irrelevant, but jiu-jitsu is an evolutionary thing, and what we must do is steal the game back away from the guarders and stall them and force them to catch back up, when they'll swing the balance once again, and the thing starts over again that's what keeps it entertaining, but right now it's anesthetizing to watch.
The student has surpassed the master. Wow!
Foda essa guarda de lapela do Keenan amarra muito o jogo!!!
Dois grandes lutadores! Acho incrível o jogo do Keenan, muito bom mesmo!
Best two fighters 🙌🏽🙌🏽
Guys, quick question. Ive done a lot of karate and even one or two boxing classes at school so i knew id be good at this judo stuff. anyways i put on my tiger kimono (only get it if you can chop 6 concrete blocks) and entered my local bjj comp. the refers told us to begin combat so i proceeded to kick my opponent in the groin (legal in hardcore karate that i do) then when he covered up i pulled his hair and bit his ear. the referee immediately stopped the fight and i began to celebrate my first UFC win. but i was disqualified can someone tell me why please because i even wore 16Oz gloves so he didn't get hurt!
Keenan fez o jogo dele todo!!!
i think keenan had a pretty good worm up before tho fight:]
Holy Worm.
Леандро цяц вяхкхна, амма, цул т1аьхьа шена динаг цо ца дитан :)
Pqp q guarda eh essa keenan? Dois feras!
im studying it im semi using it...but im not a fan of the Worm guard yet ... maybe if it evolve more
Keenan is smart the worm guard is the only way to not get smashed for the top levels of jiu jitsu I used to like him on brown belt he really fight bjj on that time but he knows black belt is different congrtz for him lets until when this is gonna work Oss
Is there any way to wrist lock some one with that worm guard grip, because if someone is that intent on hold me then I want to writ lock the hell out of him until he decides he likes his ability to guard than to anchor on to my lapel.
you cant lol
guarda foda parceiro !!! Kenan salve para os gauardeiros
artistically great technique, and sport effective. I have already incorporated this move bc i have to. But martially - dumb. It reminds me of 50/50 without devastating leg locks
*****
Martial - of or appropriate to war; warlike
Dude are you serious? When an fighter uses jiu jitsu technique, whether in a cage or on the street, martial arts was expressed. When we train and fight in tournaments, it is still an expression of martial arts. What is not martial are certain techniques that would not be applicable to real life (warlike) situations.
When BJJ was developed it always considered strikes in the equation, that's why all the early techniques are the ones you will mostly use to defend yourself with, and consequently are the moves you see in MMA. Modern JJ is becoming an artistic evolution of JJ, which time to time give rise to tatami/sport specific techniques.
Peace
zaco21 If u think what Royce, especially Rickson, and all the other fighters that proved the efficacy of ground techniques in a MMA setting wasn't martial arts then that idea must be an opinion, of which you are entitled to your own, but of which I do not agree with.
So if being able to break or kill a person isn't martial, explain that.
If u think their origins from judo isn't, why? See Rousey's last fight?
So to be a complete fighter u need to know how to strike, well i agree, but how does that make jiu jitsu not martial?
Just because the sport looks one way, it by no means discredits the whole.
think hard before you respond...
***** u must do kung fu dont u? haha jk. Look, its obvious that the idea of what defines a martial art is is subjective and therefore highly opinionated. I respect your opinion. But if the definition of martial has to do with combat, than I figure effective combative techniques as martial arts. I do not wish to categorize and enclose the horizons of ART by calling one thing MA and another not. I believe what constitutes a martial art is techniques effective in combat.
To try and persuade you; picture two unarmed soldiers fighting to the death. In this example lets not categorize and label things like muay thai, wrestling boxing, jiujitsu, judo, silat, karate, kungfu, etc - I simply consider these areas of study. We must also set aside the crazed fight or flight response that can sometimes just be reflexive and empty technique. BUT, If "combative technique" is applied to win, I consider martial arts were expressed. Regardless of what technique/s, if the practitioner trained it and displayed successfully its efficacy then it is my opinion that that is martial arts.
Again, its my opinion that what Martial Arts is is just this - artistic expression of techniques that are combat effective. Regardless of, in your words "style". Your arguments, regrettably, have not put forth enough substance to persuade me. I respect your opinion, i just do not agree. Lets just agree to disagree ok
people who only look for passes or staying in guard and sweep are boring, jiu jutsu is about finishing the deal, submit the person. it's boring to watch sometimes..
Notice how they keep looking at the scorecard? It'll be nice when BJJ fighters focus on submissions instead.
***** how the fuck is he being a troll? you are a complete dumbass
*****
So according to you, Rickson Gracie is ignorant as hell or just a troll who just sat with Joe Rogan to talk shit and was wrong when he created a new organization (JJGF) trying to fix what we just saw in this boring match where people just go through a match "trying things"but nothing happens...
Brazilian Jiujitsu is full of guys trying to win medals and is lacking of people trying to keep its core, which is self-defense.
*****
You see...That's my point...
As you say, your "champions" have manipulated -not the rules but the art itself- in order to find a way to win medals, they become very efficient in winning tournaments, but their jiujitsu becomes useless for self defense as they modified it merely into a sport.
They will teach what they know and then, the "masters" and their students will get beat up in a real street fight situation. That's the Gracie's concern and I agree with them.
I don't give a shit about "their sinful ways" or yours... I just want to let you know that you are insulting a BJJ legend when you say this:
"Anyone who says fighters at this level do not go for submissions are either ignorant as hell or just trolls" You said it, right?
Well, take that back, cos' it's NOT like that.
Quit trolling, or at least, get a better argument.
"Peace"
LOOL
*****
It is good that you're open minded to point out that you could be wrong because YOU ARE WRONG when you say that we are mixing "2 separate arguments here".
I sincerely believe that Rickson Gracie is right...They train and are very efficient in winning tournaments....but as they focus their jiujitsu in that goal (and they're good at it), they leave behind the most impotant aspect of our beloved jiujitsu, which is self-defense...
Again buddy....It's not me... check the Joe Rogan Experience with Rickson Gracie...3 great hours of wisdom for you... ;)
Jhonny Jimenez lol go up to Keenan and say his BJJ has no self defense principals to it, and try to fight him aswell, see how that works out for you.
Que guarda tem esse keenan , acho que mais amarrão que ele so o rafa mendes haha
This was unexpected
esse mlk ta lutando mto
Está aí a diferença entre esses dois contra o Bochecha e o Rodolfo. Enquanto Lo e Keenan só querem brincar de pontuar, os campeões vão direto para a finalização. E não é questão de montar ou colocar na guarda, pois só a tentativa de imobilização já incomoda a ponto de ceder a posição.
Pedro Oliveira deixa de mimimi os dois são monstros
What sad way to win... Entangle each other and hope you're on top at the end of the match. Submissions was the last thing on Keenans mind obviously and that's sad.
holy shit, if you ever need a place to test your guard out, it's here and I must say keanen had some important people in danger with that guard. . . let's see how he does when he develops it and people develop passes for it, they need to shrug that grip, it's ingenius to intertwine that lapel all over the fuckin place!
que guarda e essa my god
Lo DEC
Cornelius
worm guard
3:30 :O
Leandro vago e não passou kkk
I have to admit that even though this style game can win it is so freakin boring and would not apply to self defense. I know this is sport Jiu Jitsu but I've always felt that a top game would crush on the street with a single opponent. This upside down worm stuff will get you smashed with elbows and punches etc. But these guys are great at what they do here. I'm more of a Marcelo Garcia fan. I guess it comes down to styles and motivations. I've always trained take downs, bottom game with top as my destination. And coming from a wrestling and kick boxing pedigree I'm sure I have a bias. Been doing Jits for about 6 years and love it. They would kick my butt...Only my opinion...
For a lot of people, including myself, fighting on the streets is irrelevant anyway.
Knight Solaire Good point. Maybe because I grew up in Detroit I'm biased. I've had many fights when younger that I could not avoid...Most ended up with ground and pound....I'm to old to be fighting anyhow LOL. I'll stick with Jits....
Keenan is a BJJ genius but to be honest BJJ is becoming less a martial art and more a knitting circle. I love bjj but this just sucks. All guard pulling, butt scooting and all lapel guards should be banned. It is the only way to save BJJ as an effective combat sport.
Pqp q guarda eh essa keenan? Dois feras!