Electronic Logs: What Truckers Are Really Afraid Of
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- Опубликовано: 11 фев 2017
- Electronic Logs are coming to the trucking industry, whether we as truckers like it or not.
There's so much controversy over this electronic log system, much of it from truck drivers.
What are truckers so concerned about? What are drivers truly worried about?
It boils down to 3 things drivers are concerned about, regarding the implementation of the electronic log book system.
1. The system is too rigid and doesn't allow for flexibility in real life situations.
2. Drivers hours of work are limited, and therefore a driver can't cover as many miles in the same time period, as with paper logs.
3. There's no cheating on e-logs.
Dave discusses each point and how drivers should deal with this points of concern.
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we all need to shut down for one week. let the water,fuel ,food ,dry up
If we are regulated by the hour, we should all be paid by the hour. Local, regional, OTR, everybody.
Agree! Dave
Agreed
God bless all the truck drivers and their families, thank you so much for all you do.
Truckers Should be Paid for ALL Work during the 11 hour day!
Truckerette That's why I drive local. No log required. Electronic logs will lead to electronic drivers
Unless you haul Haz/Mat.
You mean 14? This dude is from Canada I believe and they slightly different laws.
11 hrs driving duh
I drove local and had Tracking collars and had to run a book. Not NOW!
At first it was about the money now it's just about finding a parking space at night.
3 years on and I have noticed because of elog my family time has been reduced by so much. Now I started driving local. It's less money but at least I get to come home every day and spend time with my kids. Elog finished the freedom that was in long haul trucking
Yup! Good move to local!
with the e-log you have to use your last hour of driving to find a parking space. if you stop driving after it gets dark it just makes it worse.
Yup. Dave
I run short-haul (home every night) only in my own state. The e-logs have been a blessing since we cannot be forced to work 15 or 16 hours a day and start work again in well less than 10 hours.
The only thing I hate is the mandatory 30-minute break - which I have to take at a mall with multiple stops or a place where I am there for awhile......and work through my break.
one good thing about E is there's no arguing with dispatch when you are out of hours your out
really stuck right now. 4hr left on 70. already camping at a receiver to reset clock. company just sent new load. not even thinking about the clock. this thing is crazy
Hopefully you can find a local job that pays decent by the hour. The HOS regs as they stand right now is set up for a local guy with a 7 to 3 or 8 to 4 driving time with weekends off. Too many drivers end up in your same predicament and end up frustrated in the process. It's like, "why the hell am I even here". Toss that OTR crap and find a local or even a regional spot.
Ellery Stewart WHEN UR 70 RUNS OUT IN THE DOCK TELL THE COMPANY YOU CANT PULL OFF FOR 34 HRS. THEY WILL LOSE THERE SHIT AND THERES NOT A DAM THING THEY CAN DO BOUT IT.
This is easy if you preload
We had drives say that, informed drive that they will be charged with trespassing and their truck will be towed of the lot. Never had a driver stay.
You drive a truck to get ahead in life, and raise your family for a good comfortable life. That dream is dead.
Lead the revolution Dave!! As always, I appreciate the voice of reason in your videos. It's too bad there's no real fight against this in Federal court in the US yet; it REALLY needs to change.
Yes it does! Dave
Years ago I used to run with multiple log books and buy fuel at small mom and pop truck stops that had no time or date stamp on the receipts. I used to load up 650 bags of potatoes in North Dakota and take the skinny roads to Florida or North Carolina. But that was the '70's.
I miss the seventies. Dave
Jeff Johansen 3 books WFO MADE A GREAT LIVING I WAS-YOUNGER AND AND DETERMINED 1990’s
Its been established decades ago that human alertness begins to decline after about 5 hours and then becomes increasingly dangerous behind the wheel. Yet drivers are expected to run 11-14 hours! I've cdlA and drove till I saw double. You can see it on their faces at the truckstop how it wears us out. Anyway soon automation will help just as it does in the airline business. Its just gonna cost more for everything to make things fairer and safer.
Jeff Johansen your an idiot. There is no time stamp on the fuel receipts .
I run the keep trucking elogs. I can adjust the logs around a bit. I’m eld exempt due to being towaway.
finally someone who see it the way i see it, elogs are a good thing for the industry. We just need the legal flexibility built in
but when you do get caught at a shipper or a receiver i see why paper log can be very more attractive
When you get hung up at the shipper, why cant you jump into sleeper birth mode?
alien4fish Because legally you're on duty working getting loaded. If you want to run illegal then it's on you and your company if you get caught.
if the shipper / recievers are in the trailer, and its going to take 3 hours to unload, there is no reason why you should not go onto sleeper berth for 2 hours and run a 2 - 8 split break. A few drivers have done Hours of service videos and in the USA you're allowed 14 hours work, 11 hours driving, 10 hours off duty with a 30 min break.
Everyone moans about E-logs, at the end of the day, its not the logs that are the problem, its the management of your hours of service, manage them right and the E-log will be your best friend.
So you're pretty much saying that drivers want to be able to cheat the log so they can make money. Basically what I'm hearing is that the people who are sitting while getting loaded are fudging the logs in order to have more Road time. I've been running electronic logs for 16 years and I make over $100,000 a year. Yes I unload and drive so that makes a difference but I can't wait until everyone is on electronic logs so I can make 150 a year.
I been on e log for 3 or 4 years now the still not going to pay for you set time. And when you 14 hours start that all the time you have. 3 year ago o made about 63000 this year it looking like I may brake 58
You forgot number, which should be closer to number one. Money... Being a one man operation, who is going to pay for my electronic log device? Who is going to pay the service to monitor my logs for me? I have 17 years accident, indecent, ticket free years under my belt and have had plenty of road side inspections under my belt and I have been running paper logs all 17 years and I dont seem to have a problem. Its all about money and the "mega" carriers trying to level the playing field (They have even said this on record in court, compliments of the ATA spokesperson for the mega carriers) and push us small guys out and it has absolutely nothing to do with safety what so ever. If this actually does hold up, it will do just that, push the small guys like myself right out the door. I dont need an electronic device in my truck to be safe, im pretty sure my 17+ years of driving history proves that very well. Plus, I AM NOT GOING TO PAY FOR SOMETHING THAT I DO NOT NEED. If it was really about safety, then why are so many Swifts, JBs, and such have such high accident and incident rates when they all use electronic logs already. Shouldnt they be the safest ones out on the road yet they are not? I just cant wait to hang it up... Its getting to be to much BS out there now days.
I ran across a guy down in Stockton, Ca we were backed up to the dock next to each other. And all he had for a E-Log device was an APP on his phone. Said it was completely legit with the DOT. It was a Free App, as I recall.
Kevin Morris The main problem is the government is listening to the deepest pockets. If the playing field gets anymore leveled all us small operators will be broke. The mega carriers have all the cost advantages in their favor yet they have to try and legislate their competitors out of business. Seriously they pay less for trucks,fuel, repairs, registrations and parts just to name some of their advantages. Yet they can't beat the small fleets and one trucks operators. Sad
Kevin Morris I worked for g and p trucking and they told us the industry should be a level playing field and fair. How can a company that makes 150million be the same as one man who grosses 100k
Kevin Morris. I use the keep trucking app its dot approved and you can cheat it a little bit plus you can do a electronic dvir. the best part is its free
Matt Leopold yes it is legal, right now. It won't be in December though. The rule states that the electronic logging device must be tied into the computer/ecm at all times. KeepTrucking and Big Road do not do this. That is why 99 and older trucks are exempt as they don't all have the computer/ecm's to have the logging devices installed on them. What this means is, trick sales and truck prices of 99 and older trucks is going to go way up!
Easiest solution - make HOS the same as railroads:
12 on, 12 off.
Make it a 60/5 week with a 48 hr reset.
Pay should be a flat hourly rate, with overtime after 10.
Provide an option to log emergency over-hours, which would automatically flag any use for verification.
Yeah, that's a better system than ours, isn't it? Dave
I pull b trains in western canada and rates are garbage...shippers and customers don't want to pay but want their freight overnight takes me just under 13 hours from Vancouver bc to edmonton ab....bring in e logs....I'll be out of hours right outside of town an hour from my shipper.
stefan b If you can't do it legal then that's their problem.
Tb0n3 they use another carrier
I'm an owner op making 90/10 revenue split....I'm the one that loses money in the end...late for one drop or pick up puts me behind and less a load for the week. Only way we'll make money is if the companies charge more. Where I could have done 2 rounders.. vancouver bc to edmonton ab or vancouver to calgary in one week won't be possible with e logs
Being an o/op pulling trains should be paid properly your wearing out your truck faster than the guy pulling tandem vans.
You're gonna need one of those 1500hp engines so you lose less time in the hills! Fuel bill's gonna hurt though. dave
Getting stuck at the shipper I so agree with. What am I suppose to do if I'm stuck at a shipper waiting for a trailer or if the tandem tires are popped waiting to have them fixed
Trucking is legalized slave labour. You shouldn't have to break the law to do your job, or to put food on the table. Crooks and bandits run this industry, and I don't regret for a second leaving it.
No one is forcing you to break the law to do your job - the drivers and carriers who break the law are doing so to make more money. It is one of the few jobs that has a way to earn more pay by breaking the law. It isn't forced - it is an option if you aren't happy with your pay.
Hey, good video, just one thing. On the second point, in Canada, truck drivers are required by LAW to be paid specifically BY the hour FOR EVERY hour worked, with the exception of BREAKS, and BUNK time. I had an employer who tried to pay his drivers 'flat rate', took him to the MOL (ministry of labour) for refusing to pay according to the law. He got in BIG trouble for it, just suffice to say... he's no longer in business! I don't know about the U.S. our friends there would have to look up the laws there and find out what they can do to correct this problem.
I've only been trucking 1 year, and have been under e-logs the whole time. The main thing i hate is if i trip plan i can never really be sure they'll be parking at whatever truck stop i planned on stopping at. I've driven over 2 hours on one occasion just trying to find a place to park, my companies log department called me i explained why a drove over and nothing ever came of it, but it would be nice if D.O.T added a 5th or 6th line for "finding a safe haven" or something like like. Also one plus of e-logs is ive never been asked by d.o.t or a trooper to view my logs. I've been in weigh stations dozens of times so they could check my permits and all that but no one ever seems interested in checking my logs for discrepancies. Also another thing id like to add for other company drivers especially those guys in freightliners, if you ever need to drive but are out of hours on your Qualcomm lift up the under bunk storage. Towards the passenger side under the bunk theres a little box marked "Qualcomm" with some cables plugged into it, if you unplug the cable that looks like a home phone jack or ethernet cable your Qualcomm will not save anything you drive. I do this evertime im headed home so i don't have to shut down.
Good submission, thank you! Dave
I retired at the beginning of this year after 36 years of driving. The last company I drove for used E-Logs and I actually liked them. I guess I was just getting old, dispatch could no longer run me into the ground and you know they do. It was a good career and I loved trucking but I'm glad it's over.
Most of these companies want you to run teams. I think thats a crazy. and dangerous. Sleeping in a moving truck not a good thing. even the best driver needs to be fresh at the wheel.
Couldn't agree more! dave
The problem driving team is that many roads are rough enough, and the tractor not cushy enough, that no matter how tired you are you cannot get enough sleep. I drove solo for six months then team for six months and team sucked. I would never drive team again unless it was with a loved one and we drove 'solo miles' but having the extra driver handy for a few extra miles here and there.
dkeith45 that is a fact
dkeith45 agree
I drove team for two years.
So many team drivers are thoughtless and inconsiderate to the other team member. They do stupid shit like using the jake brake on a flat interstate road where every time they take their foot off the fuel, guess what? the jake brake engages and you get rolled and rocked back and forth in your bed while you are trying to sleep. So you have to explain to them why they are not going to run that jake brake with a team mate unless they are coming down a mountain . The next thing is how to brake a truck to a stop without waking up your co driver. You need to pull over to the side to take a leak, slow down like your a train and not your personal vehicle. Tip number two. pick a schedule and stick to it. eliminate switching out day and night shifts. one driver take 6am to 8 pm and other take 8 pm to 6 pm. Some guys prefer driving nights to day. This way your have normal sleep cycles. If you get stuck at the shipper it does not change your schedule even if you were there from 2 pm to 8 pm waiting on a load. Your schedule is your schedule.
I don't think that the E-logs are the problem, I believe the problem is the 14 hour rule. You are unable to stop the 14 hour clock. It makes no differents if your at the dock, or setting in a truck stop waiting for a load assignment, or a traffic jam, or what ever! When you start your day and start the 14 hr clock, then you have 14 hrs to complete your day, it makes no differents if you just run 3 hrs spent 2hr at a dock, take off, then come up to a traffic accident that blocks the road for an indeterminate amount of time, all the wile the 14 hr clock continues to count off. You have just burned you 11 clock and are unable to use it on that 14 hr day, because you couldn't stop the 14 hr clock. And there lies the problem, the 14 hr clock forces you to get all you work in without a break or unable to stop the clock because of unforeseen situations that are beyond your control....
Exactly what I have been saying all along. I Will gladly go onto elog when the industry starts paying by the hour, but they haven't and I'm on elog losing money. Yes I know it well take time to figure out a hourly pay for a multitude of reasons but it Will be to late for many owner operators by the time they get it right. I am looking to get out now. Who wants my truck, cheap. elog really only work at present time with companies that are pin to pin and it isn't without issue there as well. Long haul flatbed, forget it.
My old company use to intentionally over book us - required to run WAY over the allotted hours often for peanut loads (paid % commission).
high pay rates, yeah right your in dream land... unless you know your boss really well you could get 45 cents a mile... the real problem is there too many hands in the pocket from shipper to receiver... everyone wants to monopolize this industry...
A decent company pays the driver demurrage of $20/hr after one or two hours after the appt time at shipper or receiver.
Get paid $200 to take 34 restart when driver runs out of hours on the road.
Get paid $20/hr to wash tank out included detention after two hours.
Get paid $10 for every item of PPE we are required to wear.
Get paid $0.46/mile loaded and empty. (Deadhead miles are very common in hazmat/tanker industry).
Get paid $25 to take drug test at the nearest clinic.(Most have truck parking).
Get paid to unload and load the tanker $100.
I made $1500/week average with 4 days home-time every two weeks.
Best trucking company I worked for in my trucking career and the first company I worked that had electric logs.
Hey, you missed one: I want to stop and take a nap cause I'm drowsy without losing the work time! If I'm waiting to unload, I want a nap not sit on duty!
2 years later and NOTHING HAS CHANGED!!!!
I used to call safety three or four times a week to adjust my time for when I ran over by minutes just to park DOT doesn’t recognize safe haven and neither do ELDs
I ran for 20 years from the late 70's into the late 90's. Logs were a joke back then and still are. The biggest issue with the "modern day" trucker is most of them are inexperienced when they hit the road to begin with. Go to a school and out on the road. BS!! Back then you had to have the experience first before you could get a job over the road. Learn in the city how to get around in a truck first. As for the hours....I started to write a book about that crap. If you are at the dock that should be off duty not driving. To many times you can be at a dock for hours and go into the sleeper. 14 3/4 hrs driving and 1/4 hr maintenance. Total 15 hours a day back then. Made plenty of money and drivers looked after each other. Not like today's driver.....
swaimbr
so how do you get the xp if you shouldn't drive with no xp
No... that guy was born with a steering wheel in his hand he didn't need any experience, he was a super trucker right out the gate like everybody, and apparently hasn't come out of his pink cloud since.
drivers cant drive more than 11hrs but police officers and doctors can work more than 11hrs.
FYI - Law has been changed as of June 1 2018 (I think that was the date) -- if at a shipper and out of hours (either 11 hr or 14 hr or both) you can now move to the closest safe haven - even if loaded.
I live in Mn. and have so many truckers quit trucking in the last 6 months or less, so many trucks sitting around for sale
What happened to the 15 hr rule years ago.
Well I have two comments. Generally I favor electronic logs but all these changes to hours of service regs and electronic logs have not improved safety. So what's the point?
Secondly, I always run legal but e logs are too inflexible. If you're waiting at a stop and 30 minutes passes, on paper log you call it your lunch, try that with elogs, you have to start your lunch not knowing how long the stop will take so you loose that flexibility. Again, I just don't like big brother in the cab with me.. it's not American to have to prove your innocents without probable cause of wrongdoing..
ynotjf If you "always run legal" then there's zero problem. It sounds like you might not.
Tb0n3 - always means always. If I ran illegal then I wouldn't care about being over-regulated. I just find it amusing that other issues cause more commercial accidents than HOS but the government ignores those issues. Road ice causes more accidents than HOS but when's the last time you saw a law change regarding chain use? Motorist changing lanes in front of truck too quickly causing rear-enders causes more accidents than HOS but when's the last time you saw a motorist sited for this?
ynotjf What's going on is they think because the average american works 9 hours a day that truck drivers shouldn't work "too much" to help reduce accidents BS. Thing is, do laws stop criminals from commiting crimes?. Can you stop flys from flying around shit?.IT'S STILL GOING TO HAPPEN. I could agree that you cannot work longer than 18 hours in a day max then do a mandatory 8 hour break. I'd bet that you'd see a lot more drivers driving "legally" because this is how it used to be...Sucks i run legal tho to keep the pirates at bay and make little money compared to what we put up with. ..
ynotjf it's not the truck drivers who are at fault in well over 90% of accidents
That's easy- after a reasonable amount of time to load or unload, switch to line 1 off duty not driving.
There truckers need a International drivers strike or universal protest to quit over regulations salves on a necessary the united are power
Okay how about trying to find somewhere to park? Some places it's impossible to parking.
I'm a trucker and I get stuck at shipper a couple times and some shipper dosnt have overnight parking so if you time runs out you are screwed and it happen to me 3 days ago.
Under the paper log system, how do you deal with emergencies when running out of time? Isn't there an exemption for weather or unusual traffic conditions? Perhaps instead of being paid by the mile, an all inclusive hourly rate could be worked out. Or flat rate per load, or salary type arrangement.
I don't understand why the trucking industry just doesn't lobby congress to change the HOS rules. We have longer HOS rules up in Canada.
bwillan Hear In this time and age in the USA we don't have a government that cares about anything but lining there own pockets' Yes Its that sad' no money no change.
Some guys cheat. And still do with the ELD. For me the worst part is sleeping in the truck 30 miles from home. That happens to me almost every week. I'm not sure how I'm safer spending one more night on the road as opposed to working another half hour and having a full two days off.
Yeah, I think that's stupid and more flexibility needs to be built into the regs for reasons just like that!
So with the proposed extension to four hours for "emergency" travel outside the HOS, is that going to help with the "system too rigid" problem?
As a new driver who is trained on paper logs and having to run both paper and electronic I find the electronic log actually gives me a piece of Mind knowing when I actually stopped and went into my sleeper in case you forget that way you don't have to guess on your paper log the electronic logs will actually keep you in line with DOT also gives you a tracking of how many hours you're driving and when you need to take a break and if I am stopped due to a live load, I immediately ask for detention pay after 2 hrs
welcome to how it is our side of the pond boys,we've had this for years now,there's few here that actually remember how to fill in a log book,what you're about to get will bring a lot of changes to the industry,some good,some bad,one thing that gets forgotten about with gps tracking is,say for example you get taken ill while out ont the road-ie heart attack,they usually come with a button that can be pushed,that sends an emergency request back to base,so they will know exactly where to send the ambulance,also with these logs,it will take some of the pressure off you from being pushed too hard,if you've 4 hours left on the clock,and the place you are going to is 5 hours away,well it isn't happening,and unless you're really unlucky,that place wil still be there the next morning,in all,you wont like the changes,but if you wish to remain in the game,you will get used to them
10-4 ! Dave
#4 Cant idle an apu-less truck during offduty for ac/heat
Bigpimping Papercut I would quit that company
you "can" idle, your company might just complain to you about it though. lol
In the uk we have a tacho system witch they have printers, so if we get court in traffic so on we do a print out at the end of the day and wight what happened. But we need to keep the print out for a year and it hast to be valid reason.
shippers and recievers are the biggest problem, u can put wings on ur truck to get there faster or run all day but when ur sitting at a customer at there control ur screwed
e-logs are unsafe, we should sue to force $60/hr for all 11 to 14hrs. they want a time clock in the truck ok, well pay $60/hr.
Joey Fla You make an excellent point. It takes a minimum of $60 per hour to buy a house, support a family and save for retirement. $60 per hour should be the federally mandated minimum wage for truck drivers. That includes time spent waiting at shippers and receivers.
I'm a company driver, I been running with the elogs now for 8 years, in a truck with speed limiter set to 64.5 mph. I'm paid hourly,however, I find it to be worse for the driver, I don't take breaks,I have to get the job done, the elogs are like the boss is standing over you in your truck pushing you all day, and the speed limiter, that's the kick in the knockers! I don't like it! It's still tough to make money,even hourly!!
Time then for a raise Driver! Dave
Smart-Trucking.com driver raise my azz the shippers will use rails more and the big companies will make their drivers drive team dumb azz B tch
BR Outdoorz actually the elogs force more productivity out of the driver, which is dangerous. But the monster mega carriers bamboozled the FMCSA to believe it's about safety. Very clever.
I did the math for company drivers based on what I've been paid and its was anywhere between $12-18/hr based on a 70hr clock/week
The law, 49cfr actually allows for running over hours if you are on your way to the nearest safe and legal. The qualcomms actually also allow for rolling
I have enjoyed your blogs, I especially liked your hockey stick gear shift extension. On Elogs, I agree with your 3 dislikes, but would like to add one more. I don't want a GPS in my truck. I keep my GPS turned off and when I need to use Google maps, I type my location in. This is not because of the government (although I do see a chance for misuse there), but rather that I don't like doing anything that helps corporations. Of course, in the US the two are becoming one. I also think that your hopes of better compensation are just that, hopes. I appreciate your posts.
Hey, I'm trying to think positive here! Thanks for commenting! Dave
By being a driver, your sole purpose is to help corporations. who else would have truckloads of stuff to move around? lol.
Good luck getting the brokers to pay more I see a 99 truck in my future
Its going to be a lot of mess on the road😕
Good video Dave, thank you for supporting truckers
Another great one! As I said before your even keeled and intelligent presentation makes the information all the more absorbable. Thank you!
Tachographs, what you call E-logs, arrived in Europe in the 70s, I think it was. There was great opposition in Britain to 'the spy in the cab' but was eventually accepted in a deal with the unions which agreed they should never be used alone to prove speeding. I was almost alone amongst my colleagues in welcoming them as I saw it as a protection against exploitation.
You hit the nail on the head Dave with your final comments. 11 hours is enough for anyone, get the right deal, and stay safe.
One last comment, here in France I have been allowed discretion by a Ministry examiner for over running 15 minutes at the end of the day to get to a restaurant after finding my usual one closed. A bit of human consideration doesn't come amiss now and again.
That's exactly the kind of common sense courtesy that I wish was more prevelant among inspectors over here! As you know, things don't always run the way they should and a little leeway goes along way, in my opinion. Dave
The US is a clown show where human consideration is secondary to profit. The old Protestant "work ethic" is to blame. Be glad you don't live here. Nothing admirable remains in the US.
Hey Buddy. What is your opinion on self driving trucks? I don't see anyone talking about it? I think it's ashamed there trying to eliminate driver's in the future. Most of the driver's I talk to are clueless about what's coming.
I don't think you'll have to worry about self driving trucks in our lifetime. Too many problems with them, too many bugs to iron out. Dave
Smart-Trucking.com Right now they do not even have the technology to produce a GPS that works all of the time. Can you imagine all of the accidents that they would have with driverless trucks using present day GPS technology?
great vid as allways dave,this is what we went through about 40 years ago ish,when we went from log-books to tachographs
Yeah, I remember tachographs! Happily no one that I worked for back then even bothered to read them. Dave
And what about the Long Island NY, when sometimes 5-6 hours pass 4-6 miles.
My rule is no eastern seaboard. Dave
Since youre a security guard on duty during the down time as protector of the load you should get paid for that. You arent on your own free time.
That's right! You know if the truck or the load gets stolen they're holding you responsible! Dave
Have to agree with some of your thoughts. I run electronic logs but am in the minority because i''m local and get paid by the hour. Will these e=logs increase rates. Time will tell. I personally think if drivers were paid by the hour and not mile then there wouldn't be a problem with delay time etc because the driver is still on the clock. Or even paid a day rate then no one would be stressed about sitting at a shipper having to wait. Just my 2 cents worth and to be honest by the hour or day rate we will never see. The mega carriers wouldn't be able to make the millions of the drivers back because they would have to actually pay the driver for his time and what he/she is actually worth.
In my neck of the woods o/o get about $75 an hour pulling someone else's trailer doing local work. Base the hourly wage of that. Look at what a o/o would make on an OTR load. Figure out the time it takes to do the load and divide the total revenue by hours it would take to get a base amount per hour. If sitting, delayed, charge the hourly rate and see how fast the shipper/receiver would get you on the move when they know the clock is running.
Exactly! Dave
Think about this. Before these hours came into being, they did a study on truck drivers, but the drivers they did the study on was home every day running between two hubs. They didn't bother doing a study on otr drivers, plus in the old days you didn't have a clock that ran for 14 hours and you had to put as much drive time in before it ran out. In the old days you could do all 10 hours of driving as long as you didn't spend to much time on line 4.
The problem with the rates going up is a multi-teir problem. First, that extra money has to come from somewhere. It won't be from the companies, it will be pass onto the consumer, raising prices. Which just makes it more expensive for the truckers and everyone else. Second, the rates won't go up until a lot of small companies and O/O are already out of business or so far behind financially that they can't make it up and will soon be out of business.
Qualcomm, don't let you make money..11h no money only 550 ml oh 650 ml.. no more 700 oh 800 ml...and here in usa many companies control the speed limit 64 oh 65 ml no more..
Kinda curious what your opinion is about this automated truck I keep hearing about. in my opinion they are trying to replace the driver. Don't like it AT ALL. Anyway it would be cool to hear what YOU think about it. Safe travels
Thanks. Wanna go to trucking school and its been weighing on my mind.
Brian Stepp don't worry about it, it's taken 10 years for driverless cars to be kind of a thing and they're only barely legal in certain situations and they really aren't even driverless, now take that car, make it weigh 80,000 pounds, 70-80 feet long and worth millions of dollars and put it into incredibly tight places? I'm not going to say it's never going to happen but I'd be incredibly surprised if it's even being tested by the time I retire (im 23) yes I realize they "tested" it a few months back on a 10 mile long shut down bit of arrow straight interstate but that doesn't mean anything
Brian, I think I can answer your question about autonomous or driverless trucks. I don't know if my comment will get taken down or edited by RUclips for what I'm about to say. There are people that are true investigative journalists. I cannot remember everything that I listen to and research. Probably within 5 to 10 years private car ownership will be a thing of the past. I think somewhere between 2020 and 2025. We'll subscribe to a car service, we'll either make a phone call or request a car through an app and a driverless car will arrive at our requested time to take us where we need to go and drop us off and leave. Mercedes and Daimler Chrysler are already testing driverless trucks. I just did a quick Google search, Budweiser used a driverless truck between Fort Collins, Co. and Pikes Peak a year ago. While searching I found an LA Times article that states their goal is to replace 1.7 million drivers in the next decade with driverless trucks. Did you see the movie Logan? There is a scene filmed on an interstate highway. They used driverless trucks. They use movies and television to telegraph to us what they're going to do. As for as the electronic logging device requirement deadline and whatever protest or strike drivers plan. I don't think it will matter. I spent 20 years over the road. There were several times there was talk of a strike. I would have been a willing participant as a company driver and an owner operator. No one shut down their trucks.
I now drive a concrete truck and my local area is a boom town as far as growth. I do get paid decent hourly wage and a decent monthly safety bonus. I would not even remotely consider going back over the road now. Seems I remember reading 10 to 20 years ago that electronic logs would become the industry standard. Everyone wants to get upset about it but I think many of us knew about this. I have been following geopolitics for 25 years and I have many many times tried to tell people what is going on and they'd look at me like I was crazy. "They" want total control over everything that we do. Their control grid is almost complete. It really is too late to stop it.
Brian Stepp They cannot even make a GPS that works. Can you imagine what would happen if they tried to use driverless trucks with present day GPS technology?When they figure out how to make a GPS that actually works all of the time, then I will take driverless trucks seriously.
Is there a solution for the reason num2? Im hitting alot of traffic and it eats at least 3 hrs of the 11 hrs.
I don't drive and was wondering how e-logs work. What happens when you're driving and you run out of hours but you still continue? Does the e-log impede the vehicle in any way? Or is it simple you'll be in violation (at least only if a DOT officer checks your time?)?
You can keep going, the truck is not affected and you get your wrist slapped by the next person who checks it. Dave
elogs make me a much less safe driver. they do keep the company from forcing me to drive illegally though. my greatest concern is that I'm the living embodiment of George Orwell's predictions.
They are designed to put the Independent out of business, trucking companies are lobbing for it and they already have them, and they will succeed, there will be no good come out of it unless you want to make $35,000 a year driving for Swift. it not so much the 11hr. its the 14hr. clock that gets you.
I have a question about the e-logs. If you're off duty (line 1) but for some reason you just need to move your truck a short distance (a few feet away or so), do you automatically get switched to on duty (line 4) or driving (line 3) status?
I need to gradually familiarize myself with the e-logs as the rule goes into effect at the end of the year, I believe.
Right now the ELD automatically goes to line 3 driving when you move the truck. That's one of the changes they need to make. There's no allowance for short moves. The thing activates and either starts your day right then or puts you in violation if you don't have enough off duty time. Dave
Wow! That is a load of BS. I thought you could at least be able to move a short distance without triggering line 3. Of course, the bureaucratic simpletons at FMCSA will not give us any flexibility whatsoever because "safety".
I like e-logs. Been using them for almost 10 years. The drive/on duty hours aren't being changed you're just now being held to the rules. If you have to cheat find another line of work.
Hopefully this will cause freight rates to go up.
stefan b it Will, but most of us will be retired or dead before they figure it out across the board for all types of long haul trucking. Be safe.
stefan b. forget it.. not gonna happen to many idiot's that can do it "cheaper". sad!!
+Chuck Collier that's what I said. Some guy was happy and giggling talking about how he found a load for 96cents a mile on a 1100miles trip. Where did he learn to be owner operator prime or swift has to be one of those 2..
The trucking game is rigged against drivers. I have seen lease Ops climbing over each other for 1$/mile loads. unfuc***ingbeleiivable. Drivers killing drivers. we are being screwed from all holes. no chances of rate hikes until drivers wake up and smell the coffee
A Mdz I guess he doesn't know that on average it takes $1.40 per mile to operate a truck if you are paying yourself descent. It can be as high as $1.80, dependent upon fuel prices.
I think the truckers must go back to old school when we could legally run 16 hrs. in a 24 hr. period. all the changes in regulations have not improved on the safety numbers the idiots were hoping for, so that alone should be grounds go back up and return a truckers ability to make a living. If they want to make regulations, they need to regulate these giant carriers with huge turnover because they lie and put nothing but steering wheel holders in their trucks making it unsafe for all of us, because it takes more than school and a CDL to be a trucker...
Amen to that! Dave
I think you're right about the long term benefits, but it will take some time for them to "trickle down".
My nightmare scenario is this: Pick up an mt in Langley, drive west to Richmond or Delta for a live load, head east during the rush, snowstorm on the Coq, snowstorm on the Rogers Pass 2 lane( driver 20 trucks ahead doing 60 km/h), hopefully I run out of hours at the Kananaskis Casino so I have a flush toilet for my 8 hr rest. Roll into Calgary 10-12 hrs late, wait for the dock to open, then reload and head back. What was once a 32-36 hr rounder could now be a 48 hr two sleeper drive.
In a perfect world the carriers and shippers will up the rates - but in the short term who puts the gun to their head?
Hey, Dave, the first E.L.D. I ever used was back in 96 working for leaseway logistics A Penske company the E-log was Zada, I figured out how to cheat that one and every trip gain about 45 minutes to an hour drive time but back then the rule was 10 hours drive time with a 8 hour break and 4 hours non-driving driver duty's. but even back then you weren't crucified for going over. I need to buy a 389 but I am so worried about getting screwed.
Getting screwed how? Dave
MAYBE SOMETHING GOOD COMES OUT OF IT
Years age a old truck drive tolled me when it quits being FUN it's time to take a brake. Served me well over the years. And as you know there are days you can run 16 hours and you can still go. And day for no res an after being off or in sleeper and can't run 3 hour So what is safer.
Steve Smith it stopped being fun for me when satellite was installed.
I always thought I was the best judge of when I was tired and needed to stop, but apparently not. dave
Yes that was my point.
Yes sir. I run how i want. Some days i run hard. Really hard. And it pays off. With stress free. Do laundry and take a shower at noon. Get a drink. Make local friends. And then hammer down and hit her hard. Im a road hammer not an e logger. I avg about 3600 miles a week. And thats because i like to take it easy.
With #2 if you get stuck at a shipper all you have to do is call the local authorities and ask for an escort to the nearest safe haven. If they don't give you one all you have to do is get the dispatchers name and dispatcher/badge number and put it in the remarks on the violation. That got me out of 2 tickets.
What do you think about parking situations at truck stops after Elogs placement?
E-logs are going to create a huge parking problem, and we already have one as it is. Of course the gov't will expect the private sector, the truck stops, to handle this and increase parking. Typical gov't. No practical follow up to one of their ideas. Dave
If only the consumer knew they are paying for all this "safety" through, basically a hidden tax.
Hold on, reason # 1 is not an Elog issue, that is an H.O.S. issue. If you are logging on paper or logging on a computer that 11 hour driving rule is still the same. Everything else you said is pretty spot on I think. The system IS to rigid but again, that is not an Elog issue that is H.O.S. issue. For all you guys/gals that disagree you are the same one's who say paper logs give you "wiggle" room whereas Elog does not...not true. If you are not logging your exact time and place you are CHEATING your logs plain and simple! What we NEED to do is quit bitching about E logs and need to start demanding they let us pause our 14 hour work day window if we are sitting for more than 4 hours. Perhaps also put in another clause that we are allowed up 30 miles of travel from a shipper or receiver regardless if we have the hours or not. That way we can move out when these idiots kick us off their lots when they are done loading us in wee hours of the morning.
We don't even get paid all the miles. They call it air miles wtf 😡
I'm home until after the New Year, but I just talked to a buddy of mine who is on his fourth day of elogs. First of all, he's looking for a local job, and a buyer for his truck/trailer. Secondly, he told me that I can expect to accomplish HALF of what we used to do...
Use ltl. They no how to keep drivers paid and at home
these E Log don't work
The last company I droved for, LCT transportation, based in Okahumpka, Florida, all drivers used paper logs. I took my time to be as accurate as possible and keep track of my driving hours and on-duty not driving hours. I got criticism from other driver for being honest on your logs and this is coming from drivers who falsify their logs, believing that they can make more money. But Eld's will make it impossible to falsify, but I don't want to feel like I am being spied upon and I wont be forced to push myself too far. I much rather have paper logs, ELD's? I will just have to adjust and run as safe as I can.
I don't know about in USA but in Canada wages for drivers have pretty much frozen and gone down
good video Dave I don't know why so many drivers are afraid of electronic logs you can still do well and what I like about electronic log is that it forces you to take a break there's too many drivers that do paper log and they don't rest and that causes fatigue and next thing you know you're waking up in the ditch
Shay Earl the problem with that is that this too many guys that don't have a sense of just taking a break that's why these laws for the logbook were put in place when you're driving fatigue you make mistakes yes I would like to get paid for my whole entire entirety of work as well I agree with you on that but I don't support the fact that these other drivers have ruined it for people like myself who can drive on paper log and be legal
Shay Earl well that I agree with you on at the end of the day I want my bills paid as well and you are right everyone is different
Shay Earl true
Shay Earl I here ya on that. I drive flatbed and I'm still on paper at the moment, but I've driven on people net before too. some shippers really drag ass on unloading you,and that's aggregating. Also a lot of steel mills I deliver to don't allow overnight parking. I think it's gonna be a mess. we're gonna have drivers not use to running on them just parking anywhere.
Is that why the majority of the trucks in the ditches and involved in accidents or incidents that you see are mega carries or larger companies with electronic logs already in them? I have been doing paper logs for 17 years and have yet to put my truck in the ditch much less have an accident or an indecent, or even a ticket for anything for that matter. Plus, being a one man operation, who is going to pay for the equipment, and the service to monitor or keep track of my logs? Im sure not going too. Why should I pay for something that will not benefit my business in any way? I think my 17 years of driving history/experience will show that I dont need an electronic log to be safe out on the road. Its srtictly all out money and the mega carriers wanting to "level the playing field". Yes, they said exactly that in court this last time.
Elogs are the perfect thing for this industry. This is now the reason to change to hourly pay for ALL time worked including pre/post trips Loading/unloading,fueling,scalling loads,If drivers could be paid by the hour they could care less if they sit at a dock for 6 hours there still getting paid or stuck in a line up because the road shutdown for 2 hours do to an accident again they would be getting paid so the tools are all there to make a drastic change in the industry for the better. Companies can already track the trucks and now with elogs start paying the drivers for ALL there time but we all know this will only happen if drivers demand it by walking away from these jobs. I believe this is a turning point in this industry. either the trucking industry will wake up and pay drivers by the hour or drivers will start leaving and the jobs will be filled with immigrant drivers who will accept the status quo for generations to come.
Completely agree! Dave
Paul Tavares exactly...I think we need to start planning a drivers "no wheels turning unless we're earning-all trucks stop", proper pay for what we do & while we're at it treated w/respect at these shippers/receivers & the companies we work for. I think the perfect time for this would be the day the e-logs become mandatory. As the other comments mentioned, if we're paid by the mile, we should get additional pay for pre/post trips, fueling, scaling, trip planning & doing paperwork. I would also add that OTR driver's should at minimum get a set day rate or no less then a minimum hourly wage for all time spent on his/her work shift, from start to finish of work day. I mean seriously we need to "All Truckers Unite" & do this, to better the working conditions for all of us. With social media, & youtubers like this platform we should be able to spread the word & make it happen or should I say "Pop the Brakes Driver".
Paul Tavares exactly...I think we need to start planning a drivers "no wheels turning unless we're earning-all trucks stop", proper pay for what we do & while we're at it treated w/respect at these shippers/receivers & the companies we work for. I think the perfect time for this would be the day the e-logs become mandatory. As the other comments mentioned, if we're paid by the mile, we should get additional pay for pre/post trips, fueling, scaling, trip planning & doing paperwork. I would also add that OTR driver's should at minimum get a set day rate or no less then a minimum hourly wage for all time spent on his/her work shift, from start to finish of work day. I mean seriously we need to "All Truckers Unite" & do this, to better the working conditions for all of us. With social media, & youtubers like this platform we should be able to spread the word & make it happen or should I say "Pop the Brakes Driver".
Not the main reasons. Most important is having to add to traffic jams, instead of waiting outside of town till traffic dies off. Next, being able to stop and take a nap if needed. You need to re examine this.
Ok, so reason number 2 is already taken care of, at least in the United States. You have 16 hour rule. If you are stuck in a jam, lets say fatality accident and your 14hrs is up, the DOT gives you 2hrs to use to find a safe spot to shut down. This, of course, cannot be abused. Its the 16hr short haul exception. Now, it doesn't extend your 11 drive time, but if your 14hr clock is running out because of sitting somewhere stuck, you can use this once a week.
The problem is the 14 HOUR RULE.
If you can't make a living driving 11 hours a day, you're the big part of the problem.
They also need to have where, right when you arrived at the shipper or cosignee you get hourly pay, not this detention after 2 hours, the customers will wait 30 minutes before the 2 hours and load you in 15 minutes. Like Jewel Osco warehouse in Melrose Park, IL. Walmart in Sterling, IL.
What do you do when you run out of hours at the reciever, and your appointment time is later than it was scheduled and they make you leave and have to come back in a couple of hours . WHAT DO YOU DO
Excellent question and it happens all the time! This "revisiting " of the HOS by the FMCSA is supposedly going to address problems like this. It's a judgement call on your part. The best solution is probably to drop your trailer there, inform the shipper of your movements and then leave whether he likes it or not and head to the nearest safe haven for your ten off. It's the law.
add 14 hour to list and the mandatory 1/2 hour break. How much snow can fall in a half an hour.
When I arrive at shippers / receivers.. I put myself on Sleeper birth status because I don't know how long I will be there. If they take 5-8 hours.. I can do a split break which helps to get my time back at the 8th hour. and then later I will do the 2 hour break to finish the 10 hour break.
The key to elogs is to manage the time right and use the split breaks when you can. I don't seem to have many problems with time. Hope this helps :)
thanks for all your great videos
Thank you sir! Dave
Hi Dave,
Here in New Zealand our driving hour / work time rules make no distinction between driving and on duty. All work even non-transport related, ie a part time cleaning job is counted in the work time rules.
The work time rules are (hours:minutes);
maximum of 5:30 work before a 0:30 rest break,
0:30 break must be rest, no loading, checking load security, fueling or doing paperwork,
maximum of 14: 00 between start and finish of work day,
minimum of 10:00 rest between finish and start of next work day,
no part of the 10:00 rest may be in a moving commercial vehicle, not team driving,
maximum of 70:00 work time before a 24:00 break to reset work time.
It just takes a little planning to stay legal, I don't plan to drive 5:30 before a rest break, I plan for 4:30 to 5:00 in order to allow for traffic etc. I often take a twenty minute snooze on the bunk in my rest breaks or get out of the truck completely.
As a contract driver I charge from the time I turn up to the truck to start until I am finished with the truck, unless i leave the truck to attend to my own business.
David Kontze Well, that's exactly the same as here in America, all but we need 34 hours to reset our 70-hour work week.
I like that system! Dave
David Kontze on standard hours you can do 5 hours and 15 min then you need a continuous rest break. after 8 hours you need 30 mins rest and a max 12 hours in any 24 hour period. it is very easily to overlap the next day and go over your hours. the problem is it can stop you working when you should be driving and can force you to drive when you are tired.
and I would say that majority write a break while loading or unloading so the system doesn't work.