Honda's i-VTM4 AWD is a superb system. Obviously it won't make the vehicle an invincible off-road machine but for everyday use and occasional snow and rain its fantastic.
@@LionRunner interestingly, they have been doing cylinder deactivation for well over a decade and a half, and I have not heard about any reliability issues from that. I used to have a 2005 Honda Odyssey with the 3.5L, which had the cylinder deactivation. But yes, I would personally have not wanted it to be there at all.
If only they’d put the i-VTM4 in the CRV and HRV instead of the mediocre (at best) realtime AWD that doesn’t always work when needed, even with significant wheel slip, and likes to overheat.
Love that Honda kept the V6 - an added benefit is that it should be much more reliable than the over stressed turbo 4’s that most competitors are using.
People don't realize all the technology, power, and braking must go through that tiny little contact patch that touches the ground. You want the best tire you can get.
@@alansach8437 ^^ This. The lay public never quite gets this. Not just talking these more off-road or adventuring-oriented tires, but with any vehicle depending on their mission, and weather / road conditions.. Very little on the car more important than tires--their type and condition, for the reason you alluded to... the only actual contact with the road of all the other systems, critical that they all are of course!
Honda makes the best single speed hang-on system for off-roading, without question. With the crawl ratio, high torque transfer and a large displacement engine there is a lot going for the Honda. It blurs the line between crossovers and SUV's for sure. If your overland adventures call for more road than trail and/or if your trails don't involve serious challenges, its a great choice.
@@krover01 My Subaru fits my needs just fine for what fire road driving that I do. Not everyone needs a Jeep or a Bronco. I used to own an old Kaiser Jeep M715 that could go anywhere, but as I moved, my needs changed.
Overheating message you get on the screen is only because Honda decided to add this feature to make you aware of high temperatures of the drivetrain, it doesn’t mean passport gets higher temperature than other crossovers, it is just that other manufacturers did not add this feature so you will just keep on offroading with overheated differential on other vehicles but you will not receive warning massage. With Passport at least you would stop and make it cool down so I think its more positive rather than negative.
That's an amazing vehicle. Hondas AWD system is outstanding, getting stuck is almost impossible as your video proves. I drive a 2018 Ridgeline and know first hand how well the AWD system works. It's taken me to some remote BLM campsite with no problem. I've not experienced any overtemp warnings yet, but take it easy on rough roads and don't use the truck for 4x4ing recreation, had enough of that stuff after 12 years in the military. I recently test drove the Subaru Wilderness Outback, feels much smaller inside with less towing and passenger/cargo space for about the same price. Plus, you don't get an AT transmission. Would be nice to see a hybrid version in the future to help out gas mileage, but not at the expense the AWD system. Great review guys.
Great review. I own a 2020 Passport Elite and love it. The AWD system is phenomenal. The only gripes I have are ones you’ve identified- the fuel economy is quite poor and the ride is fairly harsh. Keep up the good work
I preferred the twin armrest. Not only I could adjust it to each persons comfort but the lower center console allowed you to move from front to rear seats easier.
I like how well educated and passionate Tommy is with testing automobiles and glad people like him are consistently making knowledgeable and interesting testing videos for gear heads like me and makes my overall knowledge that much better while relaxing my mind. Thanks for putting in the hard work and doing videos like this. Real world testing is bar far the best way to test vehicles. Please keep it coming ✌🏾❤
The CR-Vs have I believe always had a crappy AWD system. It’s very basic. The passports and pilots have VTM-4 which is apparently rebranded Acura AWD which is apparently great
I have the 2020 Passport. I’ve owned many 4x4’s and AWD vehicles and the passport is just the best. You are right about the stiff suspension though, my 2020 came with 20 inch wheels (yikes), swapped out for 18’s helped some. If the suspension was a little softer and if it had a shift lever instead of that awful push button shifter I would say it is near perfect. Even with the fore mentioned dislikes a tremendous vehicle for long reliable use.
i have a '21 passport ex-l and i agree. as a whole, the vehicle is awesome, but i really REALLY wish it had a shift knob instead of those stupid buttons.
@@QudthsWhat difference does that make? Genuinely curious about those of you who complain about that. Is it psychological? Resistance to change? Because there is no mechanical difference.
@@redcapote4760 no mechanical difference for (recent) vehicles, yes. but the shift speed is different and noticeable. especially when you have to shift from reverse to drive quickly. that extra half to full second can by irritating. also manual operation is a (or THE) key factor in usability and many are used to and conditioned to shifters. lastly, buttons require one to look down (taking eyes off the road) to push, where using a knob can by tactile only. are any of these deal breakers, obviously no. but it is a preference. however, apparently us old folk aren't the only ones who feel this way, as there has been a resurgence from OEMs bringing shifter knobs back into vehicles.
@@Qudths I still find it ridiculous. If anything, it saves space, and a button is no slower than moving the gear lever down to the gear you want. It's just some of you can't take change and learning something different. You're lazybones.
He asks a question, gets a legitimate well described answer, and then just says he disagrees. Must of had helicopter parents. Under 30 is my guess. SMH
That AWD overheat issue is to be expected. AWD systems are not designed for extended asymmetric traction scenarios. They typically use continuously slipping clutches and/or brake based torque distribution, which has a pretty low threshold for overheating. This is somewhat by design too, as anyone doing really serious off roading would typically just buy a proper 4WD system with mechanical lockers.
Agree that the overheat issue is OK. Trailsport is more of a “I can do more than a non-Trailsport package”. They are not designed to be in a continuous state of slip.
@@wingonglingou2042 Not really. Even if you got the heat down, clutch wear would become an issue. A lot of modern AWD systems are continuously slipping a set of clutches when the system is engaged.
Great review! I've got a 2020 Passport Elite and it's been a great vehicle for me. I've taken it on multiple extended road trips (e.g. San Diego to Chicago) and can eek out 26/27 mpg in Eco mode with the cruise control set at the speed limit. Speaking of cruise control, it does come up short on downgrades. My previous car (BMW 535xi) would hold speed within about 2 mph of the set speed, and on my Passport, I've had to apply the brakes as the speed would approach 10 mph over the set speed. The adaptive cruise control is a bit clunky at times and takes a while to get used to it. I've been reluctant to take my Passport off-road in the deserts near San Diego because of the 20-inch wheels and all-season tires and the lack of recovery points. But all that said, I really enjoy the spacious interior, easy controls, and reliability so far (put 45K miles on it). I'm not ready to upgrade to a TrailSport yet, but when the time comes, I'll give it a hard look.
Great report. The Trailsport is impressive. Honda needs to make the Trailsport more widely mainstreamed throughout the Passport and Pilot lineup, at least with the upper trims.....ie, make it a sub trim/package to get more interior and feature selections with the great mechanical bits,.... so that you can get the capability on more trim levels. Or, at least be able to option the current Trailsport fully up with all interiors, features... maybe some packages to that effect. The orange trim pieces, especially the headrest logo, labels, etc, and exterior badges need to go or be toned back. They're channeling Subaru a bit too much. Thankfully they haven't been bitten by the goofy wheelwell cladding bug. Also, broken record but sad Honda is so solidly married to the fakakata shifter. Have had several opportunites to rectify and and get us back a regular shifter,.. refresh and redesign points with these and many models throughout their lineup when they could have made the change back. I'm sure now "I kinda like it" and the time-honored low bar "You can get used to anything" fanboys will now weigh in to the contrary, but I know of no one that likes that. ++1 - Yea! to finally see in T-Rex captains chair front armrests go to the dustbin! Never a good feature.
As far as shifter goes dontsayitdontsayitdontsayit... It would have been better in a manual... Damn! The 9 speed is okay if you drive it like it's to Grandma's house, but put it in sport mode and it feels jerky, and forget about engine braking, the downshift is... not smooth. It's also annoying that it takes inputs as suggestions so if your brake pedal input isn't sufficient etc it won't change gears.
Love that Honda brought the pilot back to its original roots with the off-road capabilities. The only thing that sucks about the new pilot is it has no proper recovery hooks ... my 2003 has four - all easy access to each corner.
I had to recover one this past summer. It had paper plates still but was no match for the sand. It wouldn't lock up the wheels and started to overheat.
I just went to dealership and saw this ride in person today. I love it! Tommy, if you purchased this vehicle, what would be some thing(s) you would get modified?
I like that they still have the V6. & hope they keep it. I have a 2019 Ridgeline .& love the V6 You get nice heat in the winter much faster then a 4cyl.
Don't forget that the Pilot and MDX have the most updated version of the SH-AWD which probably has more tolerance for overheating. This 2024 Passport and it's 2024 RL cousin are virtually unchanged when it comes to the drive train, unfortunately. Baffling why Honda didn't at least give one of them a proper redesign this year.
I'm waiting for 2025 redesign but just getting more familiar with the important tech stuff. If the new body style resembles the new Pilot and keep the DOHC 3.5 V6.. . Think I'm in.
It's that new setup, didn't you know?? 4 cylinders have 3 valves, and the remaining 2, have 4 valves. It's the secret ingredient to the AWD system, actually. LOL 🤣🤣🙃🙃
I have a 2019 Passport, don't see much reason to change to a 2024. Once the redesign comes through though, then maybe. Though I'm pretty sure the new V6 in the Pilot lost the VTEC (MDX still has it), so that seems like a bit of a step backwards to me.
Our 2023 Passport has the “fake” Firestone all weather tires, which work great in the summer, and proper Bridgestone snow tires for the winter. It is a great vehicle with excellent traction in real world conditions. The Passport’s instruction manual tells you the AWD will heat up with extensive use and makes no allusion to this being anything but a road going vehicle with mild trail use. It is a very comfortable and fast SUV, but fast passes on narrow roads or lane switching on rutted highways give cause for concern as there is a lot of body sway. So, neither a sports sedan nor an off-roader, simply a competent all weather family hauler.
Great video! I have a 2023 Elite and I have no plans for off-roading it except in a campground, LOL. I absolutely HATE the Honda Sensing and there is no way to completely disable it; my brake pads will go out long before anything else! If not for that, it's a very sensible car--I have no need for a 3-row SUV. We have a 2006 GX 470 and the third row seats have been in the attic since day one.
id like to see a back to back test...this and the sabaru. if you can get both.. lets see a side by side test. SHOWING ... (modes) and ( Rpms).. like you guys alot but lets see side by side all views of each
Subaru's Wilderness trim and Honda's Trailsport are in a league of their own as far as crossovers go. Other manufacturers "off road" trims are just appearance packages while these are genuinely impressive off-road upgrades.
I’m not off-roading a vehicle like this in the sense most people think of, but having the comfort of knowing I have a functional awd system is huge. Whether it’s accessing some more remote trailheads, sandy areas common near me or confidently being able to get up snowy hills (my driveway lol) is great.
@@kevinwest1607 Honda the same. If you are in Honda Pilot group you should see how many injector issue posts come weekly. But vehicle manufactures have to fight for emission and mpg wars. You have to pick tech like turbo+cvt on Subaru or cylinder deactivation on Honda along with direct injection only. Other brands same story, Ex - GM uses cylinder deactivation vs Ford using Turbo. As for AWD system with Subaru Symmetrical AWD system act very closer to 4wd regardless foot on gas or not vs iVTM4 it would be like FWD foot off the gas coming down or taking a turn. Why people prefer Subaru in winter states where it handles much better (as far as I know)
@@LionRunner Subaru has several AWD versions. Most Subarus have the cheap FWD biased system, which can send a dribble of power to the rear when needed. Then some of them have a planetary gear based center differential AWD, which is rear-biased and far more capable. Their old non-STI manual transmission cars had a simple viscous-coupler based AWD system - cheap and not that capable. The Honda VTM-4 is leagues better than all of the above Subaru systems, except for the AWD in the STI, which is a whole different ballgame, with a Planetary-gear based center diff, a torsen front diff and a helical rear diff.
They used to be unstoppable in snow but I don't know that they still are or aren't. I think CVT is much better than it was too. But for several years after it came out probably not. @@kevinwest1607
@7:00 I don't this is the first time TFL seen overheating issues. Ridgeline also got the issue. Should be expected on all 3 Ridgeline, Pilot and Passport. I think Andre and Roman was on that video. Its clutch based AWD system so can't complain. Take it slow and easy. Don't try to compare to a fully mechanical 4WD system. In my books this is very nice balance for most outdoor families needing 5 seats.
@@scottryan9414 I believe the Ridgeline got over heated had Honda 6 speed vs this Passport that overheated have ZF9. 2024 Pilot has Honda 10speed. I have a feeling that Honda 10spd would be very good even by seeing per the Pilot owners manual with 9spd AWD its only rated for 3500lbs towing before getting ATF cooler installed by the dealer vs 10spd rated for 5000lbs. Maybe next year Passport would get the better transmission. I forgot if Ridgeline already got the new 10spd or still have ZF9.
@@LionRunner yes, it was the transmission that overheated, not the rear diff. It was a known issue on the 6 speed, but hasn’t been a problem on the ZF9 that Honda started putting in in 2020. Every Ridgeline since 2020 is a ZF9. I expect the 10 speed at full redesign, whenever they decide to do that.
I really enjoy your review specifically in mechanical category. Can you also include a category talks about safety features and autopilot for future review? Thanks
Cooling is the Achilles Heel of the Hondas. Maybe not a huge problem in CO, but a big problem in SoCal, AZ, TX, etc. Also, you can't hold first gear--the transmission will auto up-shift no matter what you do.
The overheating issue is a huge red flag as was with the Toyota Highlander overheating issue. When are we going to get a proper Volkswagen 2024 Atlas “Peak Edition” test 🤷♂️ Volkswagen making the decision to drop the VR6 was a huge mistake as not all buyers want a 4 cylinder Turbo in a SUV 🥴 Thanks guys for continuing to provide great reviews 👍
That’s the trouble with outdoor dirt courses; the conditions will never be the same. It was muddier today then when the Forester ran, but no way to know if that would affect the Forester’s performance.
I don't think it's the transmission overheating, but rather the rear clutch packs. I've seen other videos (including TFL videos) with Honda ITVM 4 systems over heating. Same for the Bronco Sport (that also has rear clutch packs). Maybe for off-road crossovers that don't have a dual range or lockers (like the Grand Cherokee Trail Hawk), well-done wheel-braking is the way to go? I mean, it's not so good having a system that's 'almost like having a rear locker' .... for a few of minutes before the overheat warning goes off.
The over heat warning is not really a over heat, that’s triggered from high throttle wheel spinning, the forester would not fair well in mud. Although cooler situations doesn’t mean it can take more heat than the Honda product.
@@k20z3allmotorFTW No, the overheat warning is to protect the transmission. It needs a cooler to prevent overheating, which some have said is an add-on option. The Forester Wilderness model has this included and is also $10K less. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have an SUV which doesn't throw an overheat warning.
I have this car and there is a transmission cooler addon in order to achieve the 5000lb towing limit. I wonder if that will also increase cooling for off road usage.
I’ve seen videos of the passport with the same 4WD over heat message. It’s one of the things besides the price that keeps me from buying it. I used to have an 08 RAV4 v6 and never got stuck with that….totaled when rear ended by a semi
Question: did you know the current Passport in the vehicle you tested uses the 1st Gen i-VTM4 system, it is somewhat different than the current Pilot with its 2nd Gen i-VTM4 system. This could have been pointed out as it seems important in this case during your late 2023 filming. Now it’s about testing the current Passport (before completely revised 2026) versus current Pilot. Thank you.
I'm gonna sit on this one until the 2025 model. Hoping it gets a redesign to mimic the new Pilot. I like the new pilot a lot but I can't justify the cost and lower gas mileage of the 3 row vehicle when I really don't need it. The '24 Passport is not much different than the pilot in terms of price or gas mileage though, so I hope that can change with the '25 model too.
It’s technically not overheating. It’s just over sensitive sensors that Honda put in place on purpose so it doesn’t overheat. An engineer explained this years ago. The redesign will be different. Not sure why they didn’t just map the sensors to be less sensitive. So easy to due with software.
A few points, the forester and outback in wilderness trims are also significantly cheaper than the passport trailsport, which retails 53k cad, the forester and outback are 43k and 47k and the outback has a 2.4 turbo which is not only quicker but gets better gas mileage. Just a thought. I still love Honda and Subaru just as much, but definitely something to consider.
Owned a 2020 and now owns a 2023 and these babies drive like a dream. Super reliable. The i-vtm4 system is wonderful and the snow mode allows me to drive with emergency capacities throughtout a snowstorm ( I live in Qc City). Great analogy as always, Tommy !
Thank you, Tommy, and Alex, Good review. IMHO would you say Toss Up between CRV and Rav4, but give the nod to Pilot over Highlander? I, being OLD SCHOOL, am not yet sold on CVT transmissions - especially in these applications
@@PGXPPR I remember the Subaru Justy - late 80s - having one. Agreed, work in some applications, everyday driving but not off-road. Trying to get fixed is a headache - and certain brands to avoid - Nissan.
Not sure about that over heating business. I have not seen that on an i-vtm-4 is several years, and you guys and others have had it in much harder conditions, as you mentioned. That really did not appear to be that stressful. I'm hoping there is just something wrong with your vehicle, that can be fixed.
lights pop on these new vehicles all the time, civic accord etc. work at a dealer, they love throwing lights. im sure its like that for newer cars of the other automakers as well. too many electronics.
In snow and on dirt roads (like the Monument Valley 17 mile drive) I noticed my Subaru Legacy burns more fuel. I certainly don't get AWD overheating though.
That bracing and protection you're referencing to under the vehicle is in case the drive shaft were to break or disconnect, so it won't fall onto the road and flip the vehicle. Just saying... it's NOT "protection" for going off road.
For the record...the Pilot Trailsport has a completely different off road programming for the AWD system. The passport and Ridgeline TS doesn't have it. So...yea.
I'm so impressed watching this I'm actually shocked like really shocked I've always believed the Subaru made the best all wheel drive systems for vehicles that are not 4 x 4 and that don't have a low range
s’en rapproche, mais regardez le test du passeport sur la chaîne You Tube , driving sport tv, et vous verrez le passeport échouer au même endroit que d’autres ont réussi comme le Subar par exemple.
I love Hondas. Have had the Passport on my short list, however have hard time seeing it as an improvement on my 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland. GC with the 3.6 Mopar engine and ZF 8 speed transmission. Would be great to do a comparison vs a WK2 and 4Runner as a one vehicle for overlanding and daily driver.
I have a new idea: 4-wheel slip test. Put all 4 wheels on rollers, this separates the normal lame cars from cars that can deploy a 5th wheel to help in that situation
In the ever long search for mileage improvements all the Auto Makers went too far with tall highway gearing and highway tires etc. They are finally starting to offer vehicle models with lower gearing capability. Even in 2000 when the Outback was the new rage (its gearing) was taller than the Legacy GT gearing!! Yup The GT was actually superior in its ability to crawl or drag weight vs the taller geared tuff looking Outback🤦♂️. The Wilderness “Outback” is the very first Outback to get badly needed lower gearing to greatly improve its crawling ability. Honda is doing the same which is good. Nothing worse than being stuck in the ski parking lot because your awd cant crawl its self out of its parking spot when one tire has sunk off the edge of the pavement 😆. Vs the 2wd mini van next to you spins its tires into a steaming inferno and burns its way out of the very same stuck situation lol.
![State of Play | September 24, 2024 [ENGLISH]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fVs0suPHAX8/mqdefault.jpg)
Honda's i-VTM4 AWD is a superb system. Obviously it won't make the vehicle an invincible off-road machine but for everyday use and occasional snow and rain its fantastic.
Also no turbo is really a plus.
@@benchmark3332 but cylinder deactivation is concerning.
@@LionRunner interestingly, they have been doing cylinder deactivation for well over a decade and a half, and I have not heard about any reliability issues from that. I used to have a 2005 Honda Odyssey with the 3.5L, which had the cylinder deactivation. But yes, I would personally have not wanted it to be there at all.
If only they’d put the i-VTM4 in the CRV and HRV instead of the mediocre (at best) realtime AWD that doesn’t always work when needed, even with significant wheel slip, and likes to overheat.
@@squirrel8296It's so you step up to the Acura version.
Love that Honda kept the V6 - an added benefit is that it should be much more reliable than the over stressed turbo 4’s that most competitors are using.
It’s amazing what a set of better tires do.
People don't realize all the technology, power, and braking must go through that tiny little contact patch that touches the ground. You want the best tire you can get.
It's all about the tires.
@@alansach8437 ^^ This. The lay public never quite gets this. Not just talking these more off-road or adventuring-oriented tires, but with any vehicle depending on their mission, and weather / road conditions.. Very little on the car more important than tires--their type and condition, for the reason you alluded to... the only actual contact with the road of all the other systems, critical that they all are of course!
Honda makes the best single speed hang-on system for off-roading, without question. With the crawl ratio, high torque transfer and a large displacement engine there is a lot going for the Honda. It blurs the line between crossovers and SUV's for sure. If your overland adventures call for more road than trail and/or if your trails don't involve serious challenges, its a great choice.
Either get a proper 4wd or don't bother. Nothing worse than awd cars trying to offroad.
@@krover01 My Subaru fits my needs just fine for what fire road driving that I do. Not everyone needs a Jeep or a Bronco. I used to own an old Kaiser Jeep M715 that could go anywhere, but as I moved, my needs changed.
Overheating message you get on the screen is only because Honda decided to add this feature to make you aware of high temperatures of the drivetrain, it doesn’t mean passport gets higher temperature than other crossovers, it is just that other manufacturers did not add this feature so you will just keep on offroading with overheated differential on other vehicles but you will not receive warning massage. With Passport at least you would stop and make it cool down so I think its more positive rather than negative.
with the message in the dashboard, can we still use the vehicle as if nothing had happened?
Nice lie bud
@@KnightXV why ?
Yeahhh ignore the light 😂
That's an amazing vehicle. Hondas AWD system is outstanding, getting stuck is almost impossible as your video proves. I drive a 2018 Ridgeline and know first hand how well the AWD system works. It's taken me to some remote BLM campsite with no problem. I've not experienced any overtemp warnings yet, but take it easy on rough roads and don't use the truck for 4x4ing recreation, had enough of that stuff after 12 years in the military. I recently test drove the Subaru Wilderness Outback, feels much smaller inside with less towing and passenger/cargo space for about the same price. Plus, you don't get an AT transmission. Would be nice to see a hybrid version in the future to help out gas mileage, but not at the expense the AWD system. Great review guys.
Great review. I own a 2020 Passport Elite and love it. The AWD system is phenomenal. The only gripes I have are ones you’ve identified- the fuel economy is quite poor and the ride is fairly harsh.
Keep up the good work
If you put some 18” wheels on it the ride will be substantially smoother than on the 20”s the elite comes with.
I preferred the twin armrest. Not only I could adjust it to each persons comfort but the lower center console allowed you to move from front to rear seats easier.
When driving by yourself, put the drivers armrest up, passenger armrest down.
@@BTC909 exactly. Multiple options with individual armrests.
Thats one reason we are waiting for a 24. We didnt care for the arms in the 23
The overheat is not a actual over heat. This is triggered during high wheel speed in the programming of the rear diff.
Love you’re stepping under the car and pointing out the components and talking about the tech.
The broom handle pointer was… on point
I like how well educated and passionate Tommy is with testing automobiles and glad people like him are consistently making knowledgeable and interesting testing videos for gear heads like me and makes my overall knowledge that much better while relaxing my mind. Thanks for putting in the hard work and doing videos like this. Real world testing is bar far the best way to test vehicles. Please keep it coming ✌🏾❤
7:50 No, it's not a 20 valve engine. It is an all Aluminum 24 Valve, SOHC, Direct Injection V6.
It would be great to see this same test on older Honda's like a Gen 1 AWD CRV manual and auto just to see how they compare to the modern offerings.
They were Real-time 4WD, not AWD. And would've failed miserably here.
I had 2003 Element manual with RT4WD so am familiar with the limitations.
The CR-Vs have I believe always had a crappy AWD system. It’s very basic.
The passports and pilots have VTM-4 which is apparently rebranded Acura AWD which is apparently great
There's a RUclips video showing each gen of the crv in these tests
The AWD on the first gen CRV is hilariously bad. I'm sure the current gen is better but I'm curious to how much
I like how Tommy’s height oscillates between 6’ and 6’1” depending on his mood 😂
Gravity
Shorter later in the day, taller after a nice long nap.
Depends on his shoes
@@ALMX5DP normally you're taller in the morning.
@@nicholassmith7048 yes that’s why I mentioned it. :)
I have the 2020 Passport. I’ve owned many 4x4’s and AWD vehicles and the passport is just the best. You are right about the stiff suspension though, my 2020 came with 20 inch wheels (yikes), swapped out for 18’s helped some. If the suspension was a little softer and if it had a shift lever instead of that awful push button shifter I would say it is near perfect. Even with the fore mentioned dislikes a tremendous vehicle for long reliable use.
i have a '21 passport ex-l and i agree. as a whole, the vehicle is awesome, but i really REALLY wish it had a shift knob instead of those stupid buttons.
@@QudthsWhat difference does that make? Genuinely curious about those of you who complain about that. Is it psychological? Resistance to change? Because there is no mechanical difference.
@@redcapote4760 no mechanical difference for (recent) vehicles, yes. but the shift speed is different and noticeable. especially when you have to shift from reverse to drive quickly. that extra half to full second can by irritating.
also manual operation is a (or THE) key factor in usability and many are used to and conditioned to shifters.
lastly, buttons require one to look down (taking eyes off the road) to push, where using a knob can by tactile only.
are any of these deal breakers, obviously no. but it is a preference.
however, apparently us old folk aren't the only ones who feel this way, as there has been a resurgence from OEMs bringing shifter knobs back into vehicles.
@@Qudths I still find it ridiculous. If anything, it saves space, and a button is no slower than moving the gear lever down to the gear you want. It's just some of you can't take change and learning something different. You're lazybones.
He asks a question, gets a legitimate well described answer, and then just says he disagrees. Must of had helicopter parents. Under 30 is my guess. SMH
That AWD overheat issue is to be expected. AWD systems are not designed for extended asymmetric traction scenarios. They typically use continuously slipping clutches and/or brake based torque distribution, which has a pretty low threshold for overheating. This is somewhat by design too, as anyone doing really serious off roading would typically just buy a proper 4WD system with mechanical lockers.
Shouldn’t be call ed a trail model if it overheats that easy , but Other that seems like a great vehicle
Agree that the overheat issue is OK. Trailsport is more of a “I can do more than a non-Trailsport package”. They are not designed to be in a continuous state of slip.
doesn't happen with subaru i kept trying while on trails keeping up with my buddies rubicon...never overheated..
Can this be solved by liquid/oil cooling lubrication for the differentials?
@@wingonglingou2042 Not really. Even if you got the heat down, clutch wear would become an issue. A lot of modern AWD systems are continuously slipping a set of clutches when the system is engaged.
Great alternative for people that dont want a Subie in the northeast or Pacific Northwest.
Half of the people in my office in WV drive the Subarus. I wanted to be different.
Great complete review👌 I remember an old test you guys have done with the ridgeline and the transmission overheated in slow uphill trail
Thanks Tommy, excellent overview.👍🏽 I just ordered this exact vehicle, different color, hopefully coming in around March or April, 2024!
Great review!
I've got a 2020 Passport Elite and it's been a great vehicle for me. I've taken it on multiple extended road trips (e.g. San Diego to Chicago) and can eek out 26/27 mpg in Eco mode with the cruise control set at the speed limit.
Speaking of cruise control, it does come up short on downgrades. My previous car (BMW 535xi) would hold speed within about 2 mph of the set speed, and on my Passport, I've had to apply the brakes as the speed would approach 10 mph over the set speed.
The adaptive cruise control is a bit clunky at times and takes a while to get used to it.
I've been reluctant to take my Passport off-road in the deserts near San Diego because of the 20-inch wheels and all-season tires and the lack of recovery points.
But all that said, I really enjoy the spacious interior, easy controls, and reliability so far (put 45K miles on it). I'm not ready to upgrade to a TrailSport yet, but when the time comes, I'll give it a hard look.
Great report. The Trailsport is impressive. Honda needs to make the Trailsport more widely mainstreamed throughout the Passport and Pilot lineup, at least with the upper trims.....ie, make it a sub trim/package to get more interior and feature selections with the great mechanical bits,.... so that you can get the capability on more trim levels. Or, at least be able to option the current Trailsport fully up with all interiors, features... maybe some packages to that effect. The orange trim pieces, especially the headrest logo, labels, etc, and exterior badges need to go or be toned back. They're channeling Subaru a bit too much. Thankfully they haven't been bitten by the goofy wheelwell cladding bug. Also, broken record but sad Honda is so solidly married to the fakakata shifter. Have had several opportunites to rectify and and get us back a regular shifter,.. refresh and redesign points with these and many models throughout their lineup when they could have made the change back. I'm sure now "I kinda like it" and the time-honored low bar "You can get used to anything" fanboys will now weigh in to the contrary, but I know of no one that likes that.
++1 - Yea! to finally see in T-Rex captains chair front armrests go to the dustbin! Never a good feature.
As far as shifter goes dontsayitdontsayitdontsayit... It would have been better in a manual... Damn! The 9 speed is okay if you drive it like it's to Grandma's house, but put it in sport mode and it feels jerky, and forget about engine braking, the downshift is... not smooth. It's also annoying that it takes inputs as suggestions so if your brake pedal input isn't sufficient etc it won't change gears.
Love that Honda brought the pilot back to its original roots with the off-road capabilities. The only thing that sucks about the new pilot is it has no proper recovery hooks ... my 2003 has four - all easy access to each corner.
You cleared my decision. Thank you beautiful review. I’m buying passport.
I had to recover one this past summer. It had paper plates still but was no match for the sand. It wouldn't lock up the wheels and started to overheat.
I just went to dealership and saw this ride in person today. I love it! Tommy, if you purchased this vehicle, what would be some thing(s) you would get modified?
I'm waiting for the redesign of Passport, the new interior and boxy styling of the 24 Pilot looks great.
Nice review, I ordered one in diffused blue pearl (only on trailsport) and it should be here February 1st 😬😬😬
Great review Tommy
I like that they still have the V6. & hope they keep it. I have a 2019 Ridgeline .& love the V6 You get nice heat in the winter much faster then a 4cyl.
Sharp looking vehicle, thanks for the great review!
Don't forget that the Pilot and MDX have the most updated version of the SH-AWD which probably has more tolerance for overheating. This 2024 Passport and it's 2024 RL cousin are virtually unchanged when it comes to the drive train, unfortunately. Baffling why Honda didn't at least give one of them a proper redesign this year.
a fake off-road
I'm waiting for 2025 redesign but just getting more familiar with the important tech stuff. If the new body style resembles the new Pilot and keep the DOHC 3.5 V6.. . Think I'm in.
20 valve V6 @ 7:50.... Hmm 3 and a third valves per cylinder. 😊
Oops! Misspoke! 24V
Honda engineering hard at work
My brain was trying to do the math and I was thinking it was some weird multi valve combinations
It's that new setup, didn't you know?? 4 cylinders have 3 valves, and the remaining 2, have 4 valves. It's the secret ingredient to the AWD system, actually. LOL 🤣🤣🙃🙃
I have a 2019 Passport, don't see much reason to change to a 2024. Once the redesign comes through though, then maybe. Though I'm pretty sure the new V6 in the Pilot lost the VTEC (MDX still has it), so that seems like a bit of a step backwards to me.
Apples to oranges comparison but didn’t the Hyundai Santa Cruz with the DCT overheat when you guys were taking it up some trails?
Our 2023 Passport has the “fake” Firestone all weather tires, which work great in the summer, and proper Bridgestone snow tires for the winter. It is a great vehicle with excellent traction in real world conditions. The Passport’s instruction manual tells you the AWD will heat up with extensive use and makes no allusion to this being anything but a road going vehicle with mild trail use. It is a very comfortable and fast SUV, but fast passes on narrow roads or lane switching on rutted highways give cause for concern as there is a lot of body sway. So, neither a sports sedan nor an off-roader, simply a competent all weather family hauler.
I really like the tires that came on my 2023 pilot trailsport but I wish it came with those passport TS tires.
Great video! I have a 2023 Elite and I have no plans for off-roading it except in a campground, LOL. I absolutely HATE the Honda Sensing and there is no way to completely disable it; my brake pads will go out long before anything else! If not for that, it's a very sensible car--I have no need for a 3-row SUV. We have a 2006 GX 470 and the third row seats have been in the attic since day one.
id like to see a back to back test...this and the sabaru. if you can get both.. lets see a side by side test. SHOWING ... (modes) and ( Rpms).. like you guys alot but lets see side by side all views of each
Subaru's Wilderness trim and Honda's Trailsport are in a league of their own as far as crossovers go. Other manufacturers "off road" trims are just appearance packages while these are genuinely impressive off-road upgrades.
I’m not off-roading a vehicle like this in the sense most people think of, but having the comfort of knowing I have a functional awd system is huge. Whether it’s accessing some more remote trailheads, sandy areas common near me or confidently being able to get up snowy hills (my driveway lol) is great.
Subaru is highly overrated imo. POS cvt and questionable long term engine reliability ect.
@@kevinwest1607 Honda the same. If you are in Honda Pilot group you should see how many injector issue posts come weekly. But vehicle manufactures have to fight for emission and mpg wars. You have to pick tech like turbo+cvt on Subaru or cylinder deactivation on Honda along with direct injection only. Other brands same story, Ex - GM uses cylinder deactivation vs Ford using Turbo. As for AWD system with Subaru Symmetrical AWD system act very closer to 4wd regardless foot on gas or not vs iVTM4 it would be like FWD foot off the gas coming down or taking a turn. Why people prefer Subaru in winter states where it handles much better (as far as I know)
@@LionRunner Subaru has several AWD versions. Most Subarus have the cheap FWD biased system, which can send a dribble of power to the rear when needed. Then some of them have a planetary gear based center differential AWD, which is rear-biased and far more capable. Their old non-STI manual transmission cars had a simple viscous-coupler based AWD system - cheap and not that capable. The Honda VTM-4 is leagues better than all of the above Subaru systems, except for the AWD in the STI, which is a whole different ballgame, with a Planetary-gear based center diff, a torsen front diff and a helical rear diff.
They used to be unstoppable in snow but I don't know that they still are or aren't. I think CVT is much better than it was too. But for several years after it came out probably not. @@kevinwest1607
Great review. Well done!
@7:00 I don't this is the first time TFL seen overheating issues. Ridgeline also got the issue. Should be expected on all 3 Ridgeline, Pilot and Passport. I think Andre and Roman was on that video. Its clutch based AWD system so can't complain. Take it slow and easy. Don't try to compare to a fully mechanical 4WD system. In my books this is very nice balance for most outdoor families needing 5 seats.
It was the transmission and Honda replaced that transmission.
@@scottryan9414 I believe the Ridgeline got over heated had Honda 6 speed vs this Passport that overheated have ZF9. 2024 Pilot has Honda 10speed. I have a feeling that Honda 10spd would be very good even by seeing per the Pilot owners manual with 9spd AWD its only rated for 3500lbs towing before getting ATF cooler installed by the dealer vs 10spd rated for 5000lbs. Maybe next year Passport would get the better transmission. I forgot if Ridgeline already got the new 10spd or still have ZF9.
@@LionRunner yes, it was the transmission that overheated, not the rear diff. It was a known issue on the 6 speed, but hasn’t been a problem on the ZF9 that Honda started putting in in 2020. Every Ridgeline since 2020 is a ZF9. I expect the 10 speed at full redesign, whenever they decide to do that.
The Honda Ridgeline 4wd system overheated also on one of yours guy's videos a few years ago.
Tommy is hilarious. 0:18. I cried laughing. Best Tuesday ever Love you champ. You are absolutely incredible bud
I really enjoy your review specifically in mechanical category. Can you also include a category talks about safety features and autopilot for future review? Thanks
Cooling is the Achilles Heel of the Hondas. Maybe not a huge problem in CO, but a big problem in SoCal, AZ, TX, etc. Also, you can't hold first gear--the transmission will auto up-shift no matter what you do.
The overheating issue is a huge red flag as was with the Toyota Highlander overheating issue.
When are we going to get a proper Volkswagen 2024 Atlas “Peak Edition” test 🤷♂️
Volkswagen making the decision to drop the VR6 was a huge mistake as not all buyers want a 4 cylinder Turbo in a SUV 🥴
Thanks guys for continuing to provide great reviews 👍
Good video! Def on the fence between this and the Ridgeline, but waiting to see what the next gen looks like.
Looks like reliable project car for family adventures
I’m planning on getting one!! Just not sure this yr or if I should wait for 2025?!?! Help!!
Forester Wilderness transmission did not overheat on the same course, even though it was tested in the middle of summer.
Don't forget, the Forester Wilderness is also $10K cheaper than the Passport.
That’s the trouble with outdoor dirt courses; the conditions will never be the same. It was muddier today then when the Forester ran, but no way to know if that would affect the Forester’s performance.
I don't think it's the transmission overheating, but rather the rear clutch packs. I've seen other videos (including TFL videos) with Honda ITVM 4 systems over heating. Same for the Bronco Sport (that also has rear clutch packs). Maybe for off-road crossovers that don't have a dual range or lockers (like the Grand Cherokee Trail Hawk), well-done wheel-braking is the way to go? I mean, it's not so good having a system that's 'almost like having a rear locker' .... for a few of minutes before the overheat warning goes off.
The over heat warning is not really a over heat, that’s triggered from high throttle wheel spinning, the forester would not fair well in mud. Although cooler situations doesn’t mean it can take more heat than the Honda product.
@@k20z3allmotorFTW No, the overheat warning is to protect the transmission. It needs a cooler to prevent overheating, which some have said is an add-on option. The Forester Wilderness model has this included and is also $10K less. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have an SUV which doesn't throw an overheat warning.
I have this car and there is a transmission cooler addon in order to achieve the 5000lb towing limit. I wonder if that will also increase cooling for off road usage.
It should
Probably not for the rear IVTM 4 clutch packs.
love this size and utility of this vehicle...but was amazed at how much less the payload is than other midsize suv
I’m waiting on the ‘25. I really would love to see the TrailSport have an option package having the Elite comfort features.
I’ve seen videos of the passport with the same 4WD over heat message. It’s one of the things besides the price that keeps me from buying it. I used to have an 08 RAV4 v6 and never got stuck with that….totaled when rear ended by a semi
The Rav4 has never been better than this vehicle off road.
@@adamnagel7436 true, but mine never gave me a 4WD overheating issue Was my point
1:25 damn!!! That torque transfer!! 1:48 !!!My word!! 3:25 Honda is over taking the pack! 3:36!!
I wonder if other makers will follow suit and actually make their off-road trims more than just a badge. So far it's only Honda and Subaru?
Comanche Trailhawk led off but they just cancelled the model.
Look into the nissan armada I've never been stuck in anything
Umm Jeep with the Trail hawk
Question: did you know the current Passport in the vehicle you tested uses the 1st Gen i-VTM4 system, it is somewhat different than the current Pilot with its 2nd Gen i-VTM4 system. This could have been pointed out as it seems important in this case during your late 2023 filming.
Now it’s about testing the current Passport (before completely revised 2026) versus current Pilot. Thank you.
I'm gonna sit on this one until the 2025 model. Hoping it gets a redesign to mimic the new Pilot. I like the new pilot a lot but I can't justify the cost and lower gas mileage of the 3 row vehicle when I really don't need it. The '24 Passport is not much different than the pilot in terms of price or gas mileage though, so I hope that can change with the '25 model too.
Dfuq are you talking about? The pilot is actually cheaper than the passport.
@@user-ib5mx8ro4k Pilot trailsport MSRP: $48,800
Passport trailsport MSRP: $44,500
no it isnt
@@user-ib5mx8ro4k
Pilot gives of 4runner vybe from the side profile
I had a ‘21 passport And I always went off road in sport, first gear, and never saw that overheating warning
Has the gen5 Pathfinder been subjected to the slip test yet?
I think they did the rock creek one but I’m not sure if that has a different system than the other trims.
Tommy how long did you wait for the AWD overheat to disappear?
It’s technically not overheating. It’s just over sensitive sensors that Honda put in place on purpose so it doesn’t overheat. An engineer explained this years ago. The redesign will be different.
Not sure why they didn’t just map the sensors to be less sensitive. So easy to due with software.
30 seconds
Now that seat lookst to be made for a .... it's small. Great performance on the rollers!
A few points, the forester and outback in wilderness trims are also significantly cheaper than the passport trailsport, which retails 53k cad, the forester and outback are 43k and 47k and the outback has a 2.4 turbo which is not only quicker but gets better gas mileage. Just a thought. I still love Honda and Subaru just as much, but definitely something to consider.
You can take all of the savings in gas mileage and purchase cost and put it in a jar for when you'll need new valve and head gaskets on the Subaru.
My Ridgeline’s AWD threw up that message once when I got stuck in the snow. Thought it was kinda odd.
Please Honda, never stop doing those exhaust tips. Add them to your new electric cars 🚙
It all started with a motorcycle. Honda The Power of Dreams.
Owned a 2020 and now owns a 2023 and these babies drive like a dream. Super reliable. The i-vtm4 system is wonderful and the snow mode allows me to drive with emergency capacities throughtout a snowstorm ( I live in Qc City). Great analogy as always, Tommy !
Thank you, Tommy, and Alex, Good review. IMHO would you say Toss Up between CRV and Rav4, but give the nod to Pilot over Highlander? I, being OLD SCHOOL, am not yet sold on CVT transmissions - especially in these applications
Cvt transmissions have been around for a while they are great. Just don’t buy unmaintained used ones
@@PGXPPR I remember the Subaru Justy - late 80s - having one. Agreed, work in some applications, everyday driving but not off-road. Trying to get fixed is a headache - and certain brands to avoid - Nissan.
Love the garage section
8:55 isn't that more of a drive shaft hoop than protection? More for catching a broke drive shaft than protecting the driveshaft?
Amen. That's why i love my Ridgeline trucks...waiting for trailsport edition even though disappointed not more was done to design and features.
5:55 So what exactly are you saying about Roman? 😂🤣
This is where the Ford Maverick Tremor and Bronco Sport might do better with the liquid cooled AWD clutches.
Why no tow books in a suv? Should have somthing, even if a bit inconvenient to access.
Not sure about that over heating business. I have not seen that on an i-vtm-4 is several years, and you guys and others have had it in much harder conditions, as you mentioned. That really did not appear to be that stressful. I'm hoping there is just something wrong with your vehicle, that can be fixed.
lights pop on these new vehicles all the time, civic accord etc. work at a dealer, they love throwing lights. im sure its like that for newer cars of the other automakers as well. too many electronics.
5:48 Ohh myy.. I wonder how Mr. Mica liked hearing that one! 😂😂😂😂! 6:02
6:29 I did notice the brakes not engaging as well other brands’ products through the potholes. 7:01
haha Tommy "get off my lawn"
In snow and on dirt roads (like the Monument Valley 17 mile drive) I noticed my Subaru Legacy burns more fuel. I certainly don't get AWD overheating though.
That bracing and protection you're referencing to under the vehicle is in case the drive shaft were to break or disconnect, so it won't fall onto the road and flip the vehicle. Just saying... it's NOT "protection" for going off road.
For the record...the Pilot Trailsport has a completely different off road programming for the AWD system. The passport and Ridgeline TS doesn't have it. So...yea.
Honda passport is my dream suv
Tommy was channeling his inner Doug DeMuro in his excitement.
I'm so impressed watching this I'm actually shocked like really shocked I've always believed the Subaru made the best all wheel drive systems for vehicles that are not 4 x 4 and that don't have a low range
s’en rapproche, mais regardez le test du passeport sur la chaîne You Tube , driving sport tv, et vous verrez le passeport échouer au même endroit que d’autres ont réussi comme le Subar par exemple.
I love Hondas. Have had the Passport on my short list, however have hard time seeing it as an improvement on my 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland. GC with the 3.6 Mopar engine and ZF 8 speed transmission. Would be great to do a comparison vs a WK2 and 4Runner as a one vehicle for overlanding and daily driver.
I have a new idea: 4-wheel slip test. Put all 4 wheels on rollers, this separates the normal lame cars from cars that can deploy a 5th wheel to help in that situation
After this video go watch the driving sports TV video where the host takes it out in the snow . She ran well!
Hey Tommy, can you please do a slip test with the Gx family? From the 470 to the 550!
The front end is huge. Reminds me of an Ascent.
Need a type S option with twin turbo 3.0!!
Thanks in advance and white would be awesome.
In the ever long search for mileage improvements all the Auto Makers went too far with tall highway gearing and highway tires etc. They are finally starting to offer vehicle models with lower gearing capability. Even in 2000 when the Outback was the new rage (its gearing) was taller than the Legacy GT gearing!! Yup The GT was actually superior in its ability to crawl or drag weight vs the taller geared tuff looking Outback🤦♂️. The Wilderness “Outback” is the very first Outback to get badly needed lower gearing to greatly improve its crawling ability.
Honda is doing the same which is good.
Nothing worse than being stuck in the ski parking lot because your awd cant crawl its self out of its parking spot when one tire has sunk off the edge of the pavement 😆. Vs the 2wd mini van next to you spins its tires into a steaming inferno and burns its way out of the very same stuck situation lol.
A rear glass opening would of been perfect for those long lumber runs from Home Depot
It's not on the same level as a 4Runner for offroad.. but it is an awesome SUV.. I love mine
Between this and the Pilot Trailsport for the wife and kid (and dog). 10 speed seems to be the only major difference mechanically?
7:50 20 valve? Gotta be 24…
8:40 That’s definitely a half-shaft and a steering link. I don’t see the end link of a stabilizer bar.
Thanks for the review. I assume that the steering wheel isn’t adjustable. Is this made by Honda or is a rebadged Isuzu?
Great vid, 24 valve v6
0:21 I know the rear middle seatbelt comes from the ceiling. It looks like with the light like it’s going through headrest. 0:29 lol 🤣