1:20 - 2:05 - Discovery of self values 4:10 - Discovery NOT imposition 4:50 - Tragic and Malevolet. Life 5:30 - Love. 6:20 - Misunderstanding of FREEDOM 6:50 - I which I (Future) 7:40 - Game of Freedom with student 10:00 - Atheist and Desire 10:36 - We want unlimited truth, goodness and beauty. 👌🏼👏🏽
The last utterance of JP could also be used to describe how a cynic develops. A sensitive child with certain expectations percieves that these were denied/withheld to such an extent that this trauma has frozen them into a self-perpetuating protectiveness.
This scenario could be easily applied to a person of faith: a person with hedonistic parents traumatizes them, thus they turn to faith as a solution. This type of argument isn’t effective because they can’t validate or invalidate a belief-they only explain the origin of the belief. Identifying an antecedent psychological trigger does not change the truth or falsehood of a conclusion.
Go one step further and look into the shroud of Turin analysis by Barry Schwartz. I have no explanation for it. I would like you to keep this attitude, which I think you are correct in identifying if a opinion of belief is to be conclusive. But how'd you explain Turin? And its implications
@@madra000 not an archeologist. My opinion on that exact issue would be of no value in that field. From an epistemological standpoint, I would just say that all valid conclusions require perceptually available evidence upon which a rational judgment can be made.
Please stop projecting. Skeptics/atheists are simply people who have been presented with extraordinary claims and reject them based on logic and reason. Just like you, likely, reject the plausibility of any other god/goddess out there. But because, some choose to reject one's preferred god, that's why one can tend to get rather defensive and irrational. That's also where these absolutely projecting and outrageous claims come from...
"You did not create the universe. How can you write the laws of morality any more than you can write the laws of physics" There's your whole interview right there. Mind blown!
Correct, but the laws of physics were discovered, not by faith, but by active minds using the process of induction (reasoning based on observation). The same approach should be taken to defining morality. This is the proper task of philosophers - sadly, real philosophers are scarce in modern times.
@@tylerm1320 no morality is subjective so there is no objective morality but ma controls society so he controls the creation of the rules of his society
@@tylerm1320 the laws of physics were discovered exactly by faith. Faith that the laws of physics are predictable and repeatable. This faith stands only in lack of evidence to the contrary.
Atheists don't wish for God to be true because judgement scares them. As a Christian, I fear this as well. I fear it because I know I do not deserve forgiveness. I thank the Lord for His Grace.
Fascinating exchange between two of the most important intellectuals of our time...Listening to both is like a journey through a tunnel of a series of INSIGHTS where each one convincingly leads you to the next and the next and the next...it's like mental calisthenics of the philosophical level...WOW...God bless you both and thank God we have these in our time in the midst of the culture of death and godlessness......Love lots from Manila
“For the normative self-understanding of modernity, Christianity has functioned as more than just a precursor or catalyst. Universalistic egalitarianism, from which sprang the ideals of freedom and a collective life in solidarity, the autonomous conduct of life and emancipation, the individual morality of conscience, human rights and democracy, is the direct legacy of the Judaic ethic of justice and the Christian ethic of love. This legacy, substantially unchanged, has been the object of a continual critical reappropriation and reinterpretation. Up to this very day there is no alternative to it. And in light of the current challenges of a post-national constellation, we must draw sustenance now, as in the past, from this substance. Everything else is idle postmodern talk.” -Sociologist, Jürgen Habermas
1:00 Noted 2000 years ago in scripture 🤦🏾♂️ 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing.
Actually there are three options: God made us, we made God, and God (or faith) is a place-server for that which we hope to understand. I opt for the third. Anselm's Fides quaerens intellectum (faith seeking understanding, or faith seeking intelligence) is a useful tool, whether or not there is a God.
Being deliberately deceived and wounded by someone who claims to be motivated out of compassion and altruism is the very definition of evil. Evil is the deceitful weaponization of love.
We try to create a "god" in our own distorted, worldly and corrupted image. God knows we're lost. ( Jesus is the way, the truth and the life) John 14:6
Love Peter Kreeft, he is a profound thinker.Bright idea to have him to debate God's existence In the episode of The burning bush Moses asks God his name, but He won't reveal it to him.He just says I AM THAT I AM. There's power in a name, the power to identify, to symbolize, to describe but most importantly TO TAME, to control. When God refuses to give Mosess His name He is saying" I won't be tamed, I won't be controlled by your límited thoughts and conventions.I will become what chose to. In Jordan' s words I won't be your buttler or your puppet He is describing Himself as the Lord, and he is thus reminding us that we are His creatures, not His creators.We spend our lives fighting with God like Jacob, we want to subdue God but He won't have it
Aquinas has been studied to death I’d like to see Waldo, Wycliff and Hus thoroughly studied, then taught & discussed. Having a few favorite philosophers and church fathers while ignoring others is nothing more than an echo chamber of indoctrination. Of course, Every. Word. Of. The. Bible is the most excellent source.
The point at the end about atheists more often than not being ppl who were personally hurt by ppl of faith is definitely true in my life. I see and hear it all the time. Even the doubts I sometimes would have about God/Jesus were due to the wrong I felt was done to me. We are prideful beings, and constantly feel and rationalize from our egos.
Atheists are more often than not people who use their intellect and reason to realize there is no proof that a deity exists. Add to that there are literally hundreds of “gods” how can any one religion point to their own “god” as being the real one?
I don't agree with peterson on this one. "Discovered" or transcendental values have nothing to do with the creation of the universe by an omnipresent being. Being an atheist is simply not believing that there is a god. And god can have many meanings, but in all its variants it is a being and it is the creator of the universe. I can believe in transcendent values without believing that the universe is the creation of a being. And if you don't mean that kind of god, then you should just talk about values, because being an atheist is simply what I just described.
Most often, I listen to my angels and demons and act in the most logical way. However, sometimes spontaneous thoughts come to act without any thought or logical processes. When I act on that, I have watched beautiful things unfold as a result, things that could not have been predicted or planned. This has opened my understanding of why people in the past have said God has spoken to them. Still, I am skeptical of this but will continue to explore. Does anyone know of books or videos related to the topic of why one might believe a thought to be interpreted/misinterpreted as the Devine speaking to you? Thanks, and thank you Dr. Peterson for your wonderful talk.
I think the idea of rejecting God because people are mean to you or, have betrayed you is a cop out. Jesus went through the worst possible betrayal he didn't reject God.
I was actively a-theistic and such. Until 33 I was. Until the age of reason. Now I don't care so much what other people think, as I've not much time left to do my own.
My problem at the moment is the discovery of the idea that Christianity took from Plato, not only this, but Paul playing off the Platonic theory of the “Unknown God in his Areopagus sermon. Was God writing the Bible, or was it men living in the times and having to write in opposition to the Roman religion? It’s a tough spiritual question for me.
Indeed, Jesus was essentially a millenarian Hebrew prophet; Paul and the Catholic Church transformed him into a cosmic figure. Christianity would not have survived without it, but it was essentially a betrayal of his message and mission.
Well said. To me, the issue is whether there is a creator or not. There is no “proof” either way…just a type of logic. An atheist CAN say that matter/energy are natural and eternal…and that everything is built on that premise. Doing so is challenging though, because of the atheistic characteristic towards science…which is largely grounded in reproducibility and the need for cause and effect. Believing in the eternal nature of matter and energy is a violation of our understanding of science. As a result, believers can say that science is built on cause and effect and thus, matter and energy must have a cause. That cause must be eternal and thus outside the natural world, thus it is ‘supernatural. One can call that cause the creator or god I do think believers get into a bit of trouble when expanding on the above and discussing their ‘personal relationship’ with god or of ‘god’s love’ for us. I am not comfortable with the evidence supporting it. To play devil’s advocate towards my own position, given that there appears to be a trend in things wanting to live, I can understand how one can create an entire moral system on that observation…and infer a creator’s ‘love’ for us as a result. I don’t particularly care about religious tenets (e.g. Christian, Islam, etc)…and I don’t think they are needed. I lean towards deism.
No. We can not kill him. At least in me. I’ve lived through to much, seen too much, heard too much, felt too much and thought too much for him to be killed. My faith is steadfast.
I won't answer the God question, but the morality question. Hayek had a genius moment, he wrote that morality comes from tradition and that tradition is an algorithm of a particular type. What he described in "The Fatal Conceit" is near to the traveler sale problem which is a NP-type algorithm (very complex). He also add that rational and irrational experiences are needed to envision all the possibilities that will provide an answer, so rationalism/skepticism can't come near a solution in comparison to tradition. He ended that paragraph by saying "it is the most rational thing to do to accept this" and he took him a very long time according to him.
Summarise of the vid: 1) Freedom is not fully because our thinking is confined within certain sphere and also because our physical reach is limited. Values cannot be created but can only be discovered because the mortality and limitation of man necessitates it. 2) Prayer seems to be an exercise for the mind to normalise it's encouters (i.e. to deal with grief) 3) Experiences causes the mind to consolidate and rationalize. This then converge on a messianic figure which in Dr Jordan's discussion would be jesus. 4) The heart (which i guess is analogous to soul + intelligence instead of the real heart) pursue values that is lofty and better than what the world can provide 5) majority of atheists seems to be atheist because they had bad interactions. Thoughts: In all honesty, whatever was discussed in this showrt 13 min can be reversed to support against a primordial god. 1) Freedom is not fully free which suggests that transcendence is impossible. Values is derivative because it is found therefore providing no evidence that life was built on top of transcendental values. Thus, we cannot say that there is a God (abrahamic type) and we cannot claim that this deity is moral. 2) If prayers are mediations and meditations are prayers then the mystical or supernatural aspect of prayers is naught. We can call it more of therapy than a ritualistic manner to gain favor. 3) Experiences draw us to metaphysical, doesn't that also mean that religions are fantasies? 4) Well, the heart of many people also suggest that love is love but the Abrahamic faith is pushing against LGBTQ+ 5) Majority of religionists have also become religious because atheists treated them badly. What are we really talking about here? Isn't it normal to get offended everyday by different thing and different people of different background? In addition, these atheists may have been responding to the notion of chrisitianity changing people to be better person. It may not mean that the bad experiences are the reason for their cynicism.
I had some friends from Nepal who I would say embodied more closely the Values I think Jordan Peterson was talking about of personal responsibility, responsibility to their parents, and responsibility to their communities. They are very hard working humble and social. I’m unfortunately the opposite and I would say for part of those reasons I don’t talk to them. The weight of responsibility of helping them felt too great. My feelings sometimes when talking to them was that they were too naive and didn’t understand like I do the culture that defines the western world. In some ways that may be true but I can’t shake the feeling that their small country with thousands of years of passed down traditions is ultimately the model that the west is returning to. For a long time the west has played with the exploitation of natural resources and sometimes some people. (This isn’t to say that other cultures haven’t done the same.) The illusion of abundance is coming undone as it is redistributed and the unholy powers of progress that men thought they had are being revealed to be merely at others expense. I forgot to mention the bad qualities (in my opinion) of my Nepali friends. Over sharing and feelings of jealousy or shaming if you have more. An entitlement to you sharing your time and energy with them likely coming from a more collectivistic culture. So It seems the devil will have to stay because nobody will last a day with God. An optimal strategy for personal freedom will have to be found then to pursue wealth, health and everything else we were told we would have. While not totally fucking everyone LOOL
Fascinating, although I wish JBP would permit PK more time to speak. I am very active in AA and one of the aspects of Alcoholics Anonymous I find most distressing is the line in the Big Book; 'a God of your understanding'. This line, by many, is wilfully misinterpreted to mean 'you can define God for yourself'. AA advocates a spiritual programme, this however is not a spiritual understanding of this one line. For advocates of this outlook, they may cease drinking, they will not however become 'sober' or be permitted to carry the message to others. In hoc signo vinces ✝
Alcoholics Anonymous is/was a “seeker friendly” spiritual program. The entire original plan is to get yourself out of your own way, take the log out of your own eye and be in contact & rely on “higher power” daily. 12 Steps don’t promise to make a Christian out of you instantly or ever but the Pride v Humility issue get addressed often.
12:04 And its also people/ world generally if not religious. Because what is around you IS God in the sense as God is in the end everything. Particularly your parents as image of God that should reflect that image on you and if your father makes you hurt and to become rebel, you automatically rebel to God in some levels even if you would become christian its hard to get in real relationship with Him and let Him close.
God is the _hotheos,_ the primary cause and source upon which all of existence necessarily draws from. Whether one believes that source is intelligent or not, everything _has_ to trace their existence back to that first cause. And unless one proposes a cosmology wherein the universe is locked in a continuous cycle of beginning and ending, one can't logically assert that primary causality doesn't exist.
@@anolisa1939 If we exist in a hierarchy, which we do, then something is at the top. Every action, every structure, every thing we do relies on hierarchy. You don’t think clothing, diet and mating habits contribute to quality of life? Those are the most basically essential aspects of human life. Why wouldn’t they contribute to the ultimate good?
@@06rtm Living organisms are variable, yes, but that is not evidence for some god like topper upon this tree of life. The attributes most valuable in one situation, may prove fatal in another (Ex. An apex predator could become so adept & specialized at obtaining a certain prey type, that it would fail to survive in an environment absent those prey animals.) A mathematician could be the top authority in his field, yet rank at the very bottom in a hierarchical system prioritizing marksmanship, or sewing skills. And no, I don’t believe mixing fabrics, eating bacon, or sexing up alternative holes will make anyone’s life worse off. However, I do think it can be very harmful to ignore reality, and instead pursue comfort about in myth & fiction.
Good Day, Dr. Peterson. Have you heard of the Hare Krishna movement (ISKCON)? Please comment on your view of such practices. Their philosophy is very much in line with yours and Dr. Kreeft's.
A Game Has Developer's To Craft A Fun Experience Within The Confines And Rules Of A Simulation Regardless How Free It Is IT is Subordinate To Something Just As Our Creations Have Purpose We Have Divine Purpose We Can't Escape The Atom Nor Whould IT Benefit Us To
I enjoy listening to Jordan Peterson because he's a smart guy and he provides solid advice to live your life by. He also appeals to young people which is desperately needed during these times where up is down and down is sideways. But in my opinion, when he gets into spiritual matters, he is unable to close the loop (for lack of a better term) because he seems to refer more to God as a construct than a living being, a view akin to the absent clockmaker some have accused Him of being. Jordan constantly refers to Nietzsche and Jung when he makes his arguments for God instead of scripture. I don't know if it's because he doesn't feel well versed enough in the Bible beyond Genesis to incorporate it into his commentary (that would be a valid reason) but sorry, Nietzsche and Jung are not the sources someone should turn to to discover the active role God plays in our lives. But who knows. Maybe Jordan just doesn't honestly see God in an active capacity in his heart. Perhaps his past training and education in psychology are too deeply ingrained for him to allow it. I have heard him refer to God as a lawgiver, the source for morality, but if that's all there is to it we are all damned because no one is capable of living a sin-free life, no matter how clearly defined the rules may be. This is because we have a fallen nature. Jordan knows that because I've heard him say as much when he points out the flaws within Marxist philosophy. There was only one truly innocent man in all of creation, one man capable of meeting Gods standards and he took on our sins so we can be reconciled with the Father. That is the essence of Christianity anyway. I know other faiths see things differently but none of their messages of salvation come from secular sources either. All of them are based on scripture of one form or another. Like I say, I like listening to Jordan and appreciate the work he does, but I would not recommend him when it comes to matters of faith and God's role in the world. But that's me.
Even in the Bible we get the idea that gods were human-made. The problem for those criticizing the one making gods from wood or stone, is the very same critique can be pointed in their direction in regard to Yahweh. When we examine the Hebrew God, we find very human traits and characteristics and behaviors. So much to bring the idea that even Yahweh himself was a Human creation. So many Humans still turn to Lord Yahweh or Lord Vishnu, or Lord Whatever. Often without asking why. But those who begin to ask these questions. Are the ones who begin to understand that all these gods, and goddesses are simply products of somebody's imagination. So many that are breaking themselves away from these possibly made-up deities, are realizing what true self-liberation is all about.
pretending god exists does not make it so. Humans created many gods, in order to control and manipulate other humans. For some, believing in god is very beneficial but for many, it's a very bad idea. You have to figure out which scenario you are in the midst of and choose accordingly. And which god to believe in is also a question you have to ask yourself. Survival is the goal, even prosperity, but not everlasting life. That is a whole other story.
Jordan B. Peterson's new book titled Yahweh is blasphemous. If he intends on convincing people of the importance of knowing God (even just the practical utility), starting your book by outright denying the divinity of Christ defeats the purpose. Christ saved billions throughout history. He is more than a Platonic Ideal. He is more than an archetype of the unconscious, or the abstract Logos. *He is God.*
I never understood how can someone say that something in bible was written by god. Why can't god just tell it to you personally? Why do you need another person who is gonna tell you what god told them?
You would want to hear someones elses interpretation on the bible so that you could discussion about philosophy and past humanity.Or you could just read it and interpret it yourself. What do you need god to baby you or something?
Nothing in the bible was written by God. The Bible was written by humans that were inspired by eternal ideas and represents hundreds of years of experience synthesized into the closest thing to truth possible. God can and does speak to you personally, through dreams. You need the wisdom of others that came before you because they spent generations creating ways of being that passes the rest of time and strives toward the good. If you think you can offhandedly create new values within 50 years that beats the values that thousands of people painstakingly discovered over thousands of years, let me know how that works out. But you wouldn't read the Bible, God should tell you all that "personally" Don't cast pearls to swine, I suppose.....
“Why can’t god just tell it to you personally?” Because deity’s don’t exist. A person’s religion is based entirely on the era & location of their birth, the beliefs of their parents, and their genetic susceptibility to dogmatic belief. Religion has never been about trusting in a god/goddess…rather, it’s about trusting the people who purport to speak for said god/goddess. With hundreds of so called “prophets” making countless diverging claims, it would be a miracle to choose the correct babbling lunatic, even if an actual god/goddess was communicating with them via private brain-mails.
11:33 - I feel like that last segment is quite true to what I've witnessed to others around me and in my personal life. I was born a Christian, eventually decided that God doesn't exist and defined myself as an athiest, and today I'm a Muslim. It does seem that those who decide to reject the existence of God often have had a significantly negative emotional experience with someone, or many others, that deem to be acting out of the righteousness defined by their religion. It then becomes extremely hard for them to ever come back to their original faith or another. I didn't plan so much on becoming a practicing Muslim. I thought I would live the rest of my life as an athiest. I eventually came across a set of events in my life that were extremely uncanny while I was trying to understand the religion of Islam and as much as I tried to apply my understanding of pyscology, statistics, and math (all of which I am far from being an expert on to be fair), I couldn't help but stop rejecting these events and deeming them as a coincidence and eventually I had the most significantly positive emotional experience that I have had in my life and I still question it until this day how these things could be. When these things happened, I thought that this may all just be a matter of my cognitive biases or of my mind trying to find meaning in these event, and although those questioned still stand I can't deny the amount of good it has brought me and how many bad things is has taken me away from. If anyone has thoughts on this, I would like to know your thoughts.
You mentioned your familiarity with psychology, math and statistics in relation to Islam. Do you believe that Islam holds up against scientific scrutiny from those subjects? Also, I’m curious to hear your take on the same question but instead of Islam it’s Christianity.
@@CompletelyRandomAndUnknown your whole question is invalid the instance you are asking about the guy's "believe" regarding science and religion and whether or not Islam holds up against scientific scrutiny. The guy turned to Islam because of "uncanny events" in his life which is the equivalent to a person seeing a weather phenomena the person can't explain, because lack of knowledge about the forces of nature, and then draws the conclusion that it must be aliens from outer space. - To say it straight, it's the lack of knowledge, enlightenment and critical thinking that makes sense of religion to people.
I agree with Jordan as well. People who were mistreated by religious cults can not open that door to God. Though as a Christian I do not believe Islam is the answer, it may well provide you some peace. For others it provides no answers or peace. You may eventually get to a place where you can ask God for the truth. 'Ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you will find,......'
So absurd saying a large % of atheist got hurt by religious figure as a child so that's why they formed that belief system.🤣 You're a smart man Jordan who I would think knows a lot about biology,laws of physics,the universe,etc. I would tend to believe that deep down inside you know damn well the odds of a Judeo-Christian all knowing and powerful diety creating the universe is about as good as me hitting the power ball lotto tonight. Religion was created / invented to help ease mankinds deep seated fear of death. BTW the reason I'm agnostic is because I learned about science, physics,the universe,etc and after doing so it was pretty much impossible for me too base my belief system on a bronze age story book!
Growing up in foster care and in rejection through my family, it’s lead me to think what is my purpose Personally It’s either Suicide or God for me! The way I see life without a God Is for it all to be lost for what I built up in time family, friends, career, ect. why go through with any of it if death is surely to have the last laugh Why tease myself why even begin
Choose life, not death. For God is not the God of the dead, but of the Living. He is the living God. He has defeated death. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Not always. I think only certain monks take the oath of silence. We need to talk to people. If you have a wife and kids we need to explain things to them etc. God created the world in his wisdom, and humans in his image, the wisdom part is from St.Thomas Aquinas which really makes sense to me.
@@joelogjam9163 it's hard to answer a question which is absurd in its reason. That's like saying what would be the difference between a pseudo-cat and transforfish. Can't just plaster words together.
@@joelogjam9163 Read carefully And understand. I said (Silence) is what people call God. It is not someone or something you can see or touch, whether Alive or dead.
Absolutely. Since the beginning of time man has pondered the reason for his existence and explain the unexplainable by building structures to govern their societies. God is nothing more than an ideal to live a more civilized life in harmony with your neighbors. Man created commandments and laws. They wrote that you're being watched 24/7 and so you better not break any of the commandments , at the end of your life you'll go to heaven above or hell down below. What a crock everybody thought and still do weather they want to believe me or not. Most people won't kill, rob, steal, cheat or lie if they think they're being watched by the law. If they think they're alone with only them and God watching, they're libal to do any or all of the above mentioned things. God is nothing more then the LAW. That's it. Believe in God, it's good for society 🙏
@@caseywhite3150 even primitive humans with their undeveloped brians made up the answer to the reason of their existence by thinking of a simple and convincing answer which was god That's how simple the answer was
Despite the religious schism, Christianity is very clearly built on the foundation of Judaism. As such, having a phrase indicating elements common to both traditions (aka most of them) is valid.
thanks. The Jews might lay claim but they do reject Christ and thus the truth so the jewish people have no right to make claims to divine truth. they are clearly denying it themselves.
@@Xbalanque84 Is that all you want, "valid"? It's a new term. It's so much easier and accurate to leave out the "Judeo" part, which had absolutely nothing to do with our founding. It is much more efficient and accurate to just say "Christian"
@@Xbalanque84 It's a woke term. And it's frankly inaccurate. Especially the main way it's used, in reference to "the values our country was founded on". Judeos have nothing to do with the founding of our country. They didn't come here til after reconstruction, to take advantage of us while we were down and take control of the economy.
@@Caleb-Reid without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6
@@Caleb-Reid I would say that that’s a good way of looking at it. Love and trust go hand in hand. I honestly don’t fully understand why it pleases God but I know it’s very important. Believing God even though we don’t physically see him with our eyes is a purely spiritual exercise, and God himself is a spirit. Better yet, God, who is a spirit, became flesh like we are, as Jesus Christ and died for our sins to save us from ourselves.
It's all mystery. Adam and Eve had at least a thinner veil, it did not keep them from falling. The feminine is definitely more tied to sin than the masculine. But she's also more tied to the full experience of life giving love. if we had Direct access to a limitless omniscient God, we may be inclined to treat him like a genie, and abuse the relationship, and love is more of a challenge. You could live for thousands of years and never plumb the depths of God's mind, or understand fully his ways.
The third commandment say “Do not take the Lord’s name in vain “. It actually says “Do not carry” which actually means if you are going to act religious, be religious because when you act disgusting God suffers.
As an atheist it's quite annoying hearing that last part. Dawkins is not 'reactionary' in that sense that JP is talking about. JP also uses his comment section to generalize why atheist are atheist. The problem with that is not only the credibility of the source, but his thesis that atheist are reactionary to some sort of betrayal is obviously incorrect. In Sweden for instance, 70-80% of the population are atheist. Does JP think that all of those millions of people are reactionary??
@@SuperBjankaBad people do bad things but that does not discredit the things they believe in or the the things they belong to. Truth is not changed by an individuals actions. For example, say a politician makes a racist comment on a Twitter post. Does that discredit the entire political party they belong to? What if they apologize? What if the political party comes out and condemns the comment? Would you not vote for that party because a member made a wrong decision. No, judge the party according to truth and not actions.
How would you define God? In some sense, God seems to be indefinable because everything is God. So the question becomes kinda silly, does Everything exist? Did people create Everything? 🤔
If you define God like this, then it definitely doesn't exist, there is no evidence. Yet, if you pay attention to the video above, our very existence is the evidence. Therefore the definition should be broader.
@@maxwithanaxe713 Why? Broadening the definition to encompass “everything” renders the term completely meaningless. In truth, we don’t know why we’re here, or how our existence came about. Claiming otherwise is both dishonest, and intellectually lazy.
@@anolisa1939, broaden the term makes it meaningless? But I don't see how you could not. If you limit the term to anything really, Got becomes a guy in a sky, and again, no avidence of God's existence then. Not know the answer and not looking for it is intellectually lazy. You are switching meanings there.
I’ve heard many of the best Atheist arguments against God, but none of them came close to destabilizing my faith like the psychological abuse my wife and I received from “God’s people”.
There is plenty of people who are willing to sacrifice your love to prop up theirs. There are plenty of people willing to hide behind the authority of those imaginary beings to sacrifice the well being and love of people who aren't part of their church.
I find it interesting how I do not at all relate to their experience with other atheists. Of course religion and gods are attractive stories, that's why religion persists despite the complete absurdities. And I was never hurt by a believer when I was young. I took an honest look at the evidence for and against and found the evidence for the existence of a god lacking. Whether or not religion is attractive is immaterial to its truth just as much as whether a believer hurt me is irrelevant. If you cannot convince me with good reasons to believe, I will not believe.
1:20 -
2:05 - Discovery of self values
4:10 - Discovery NOT imposition
4:50 - Tragic and Malevolet. Life
5:30 - Love.
6:20 - Misunderstanding of FREEDOM
6:50 - I which I (Future)
7:40 - Game of Freedom with student
10:00 - Atheist and Desire
10:36 - We want unlimited truth, goodness and beauty. 👌🏼👏🏽
The last utterance of JP could also be used to describe how a cynic develops. A sensitive child with certain expectations percieves that these were denied/withheld to such an extent that this trauma has frozen them into a self-perpetuating protectiveness.
This scenario could be easily applied to a person of faith: a person with hedonistic parents traumatizes them, thus they turn to faith as a solution. This type of argument isn’t effective because they can’t validate or invalidate a belief-they only explain the origin of the belief. Identifying an antecedent psychological trigger does not change the truth or falsehood of a conclusion.
Go one step further and look into the shroud of Turin analysis by Barry Schwartz. I have no explanation for it. I would like you to keep this attitude, which I think you are correct in identifying if a opinion of belief is to be conclusive. But how'd you explain Turin? And its implications
@@madra000 not an archeologist. My opinion on that exact issue would be of no value in that field.
From an epistemological standpoint, I would just say that all valid conclusions require perceptually available evidence upon which a rational judgment can be made.
Please stop projecting. Skeptics/atheists are simply people who have been presented with extraordinary claims and reject them based on logic and reason. Just like you, likely, reject the plausibility of any other god/goddess out there. But because, some choose to reject one's preferred god, that's why one can tend to get rather defensive and irrational. That's also where these absolutely projecting and outrageous claims come from...
@@nette9836 You presume far too much.
"You did not create the universe. How can you write the laws of morality any more than you can write the laws of physics" There's your whole interview right there. Mind blown!
Jordan seriously just needs to take a leap of faith and submit to God in prayer ... He'll never find God purely epistemologically...
How sure are we that he hasn't?
Correct, but the laws of physics were discovered, not by faith, but by active minds using the process of induction (reasoning based on observation). The same approach should be taken to defining morality. This is the proper task of philosophers - sadly, real philosophers are scarce in modern times.
@@tylerm1320 no
morality is subjective so there is no objective morality
but ma controls society so he controls the creation of the rules of his society
@@tylerm1320 the laws of physics were discovered exactly by faith. Faith that the laws of physics are predictable and repeatable. This faith stands only in lack of evidence to the contrary.
“To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”
St Thomas Aquinas
WoW couldn’t believe my eyes ! Been listening and reading prof Kreeft for years! Now to see him here with JP! What a joy . Thank you
If Jordan would let him get a word in…lol
I thoroughly enjoy listening to Peter Kreeft.
I always love a good criticism of “freedom” as it is normally thought of in the United States
“I don’t want there to be a God. I don’t want there to be a heaven. I would be threatened by that.”😎
As well as 'love'. The Western world dwells on 'eros' and not 'agape'.
Atheists don't wish for God to be true because judgement scares them. As a Christian, I fear this as well. I fear it because I know I do not deserve forgiveness. I thank the Lord for His Grace.
Fascinating exchange between two of the most important intellectuals of our time...Listening to both is like a journey through a tunnel of a series of INSIGHTS where each one convincingly leads you to the next and the next and the next...it's like mental calisthenics of the philosophical level...WOW...God bless you both and thank God we have these in our time in the midst of the culture of death and godlessness......Love lots from Manila
“For the normative self-understanding of modernity, Christianity has functioned as more than just a precursor or catalyst. Universalistic egalitarianism, from which sprang the ideals of freedom and a collective life in solidarity, the autonomous conduct of life and emancipation, the individual morality of conscience, human rights and democracy, is the direct legacy of the Judaic ethic of justice and the Christian ethic of love. This legacy, substantially unchanged, has been the object of a continual critical reappropriation and reinterpretation. Up to this very day there is no alternative to it. And in light of the current challenges of a post-national constellation, we must draw sustenance now, as in the past, from this substance. Everything else is idle postmodern talk.”
-Sociologist, Jürgen Habermas
1:00 Noted 2000 years ago in scripture 🤦🏾♂️
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing.
God exists and his name is Jesus Christ.
well gosh, I bet god read this comment and was like you got it. You're going to heaven. Good show ol chap.
@@Alec0124 the only reason I’m going to heaven is because the Lord Jesus Christ shed his precious blood to redeem me. To God be the glory!
@@tyton3 God bless
@@Alec0124 anything else, kid?
You are not wrong.
Nietzsche has the same theological doctrine as Satin. They match perfectly. " I will be like the most high God".
I wish more people admitted this
Actually there are three options: God made us, we made God, and God (or faith) is a place-server for that which we hope to understand. I opt for the third. Anselm's Fides quaerens intellectum (faith seeking understanding, or faith seeking intelligence) is a useful tool, whether or not there is a God.
@@saltburner2 There are ZERO options. There is only 1 truth, the rest is a lie.
Right, but one of them is a person that actually existed and the other is the antagonistic character in a fictive book.
@@Rudzani How do you know who exists and doesn't? How do you know I exist? Your statement is illogical.
Being deliberately deceived and wounded by someone who claims to be motivated out of compassion and altruism is the very definition of evil. Evil is the deceitful weaponization of love.
Ex. Pharisees/Judas Iscariot
We try to create a "god" in our own distorted, worldly and corrupted image. God knows we're lost.
( Jesus is the way, the truth and the life) John 14:6
Love Peter Kreeft, he is a profound thinker.Bright idea to have him to debate God's existence
In the episode of The burning bush Moses asks God his name, but He won't reveal it to him.He just says I AM THAT I AM. There's power in a name, the power to identify, to symbolize, to describe but most importantly TO TAME, to control.
When God refuses to give Mosess His name He is saying" I won't be tamed, I won't be controlled by your límited thoughts and conventions.I will become what chose to. In Jordan' s words I won't be your buttler or your puppet He is describing Himself as the Lord, and he is thus reminding us that we are His creatures, not His creators.We spend our lives fighting with God like Jacob, we want to subdue God but He won't have it
No, God did give Moses his name. That was his name. You need to read that again.
Absolutely loved it! Thank you both and God bless. ✝️❤️
Blessings!
@@Ultimate.Meaning Blessings to you as well. ✝️🙏🏻🕊
I think a good definition of freedom is really needed right now. A definition that slow and/or uninterested people can understand.
Would love for Kreeft and Jordan discussing Aquinas.
Those three names in one room would solve every single one of our existential questions
Aquinas has been studied to death
I’d like to see Waldo, Wycliff and Hus thoroughly studied, then taught & discussed.
Having a few favorite philosophers and church fathers while ignoring others is nothing more than an echo chamber of indoctrination.
Of course, Every. Word. Of. The. Bible is the most excellent source.
Jesus Christ is the way and the life in him we find all the answers. Open our hearts to his divine mercy and wisdom,healing, and love
I praise God for Dr. Peterson’s health
The point at the end about atheists more often than not being ppl who were personally hurt by ppl of faith is definitely true in my life. I see and hear it all the time. Even the doubts I sometimes would have about God/Jesus were due to the wrong I felt was done to me. We are prideful beings, and constantly feel and rationalize from our egos.
Thank you for this discussion!
Atheists are more often than not people who use their intellect and reason to realize there is no proof that a deity exists. Add to that there are literally hundreds of “gods” how can any one religion point to their own “god” as being the real one?
Interesting right? Trying to figure out if God willed Morocco’s loss or if Jesus willed the Christian teams win🤔
Having met God on multiple occasions and seen Him work (sometimes with independent witnesses), I'm gonna have to say "not likely."
haha your kidding yourself mate grow up
Jordan seriously just needs to take a leap of faith and submit to God in prayer ... He'll never find God purely epistemologically...
You, DR JORDAN PETERSON, are truely a MAGNIFICENT MAN. You remind me much of myself, although I am still naive beyond belief. Thank you for EVERYTHING
Let's
you wouldn't enjoy it INITIALLY but you should accept the TRUTH
I don't agree with peterson on this one. "Discovered" or transcendental values have nothing to do with the creation of the universe by an omnipresent being. Being an atheist is simply not believing that there is a god. And god can have many meanings, but in all its variants it is a being and it is the creator of the universe. I can believe in transcendent values without believing that the universe is the creation of a being. And if you don't mean that kind of god, then you should just talk about values, because being an atheist is simply what I just described.
If you know what’s better, and you want the best for you, why don’t you do what you know is better?
Most often, I listen to my angels and demons and act in the most logical way. However, sometimes spontaneous thoughts come to act without any thought or logical processes. When I act on that, I have watched beautiful things unfold as a result, things that could not have been predicted or planned.
This has opened my understanding of why people in the past have said God has spoken to them. Still, I am skeptical of this but will continue to explore.
Does anyone know of books or videos related to the topic of why one might believe a thought to be interpreted/misinterpreted as the Devine speaking to you?
Thanks, and thank you Dr. Peterson for your wonderful talk.
Jordan, you are so struggling with Jesus Christ. I really hope you find our Savior. God bless. Mary
This is a dream come true for me. Participating in a Jordan Peterson & Peter Kreeft philosophical conversation. December 14, 2022
I really want to see a conversation between Jordan and NT Wright on many of these matters.
I think the idea of rejecting God because people are mean to you or, have betrayed you is a cop out. Jesus went through the worst possible betrayal he didn't reject God.
He was god.
@@Jaaammmbbbooo the son didn't reject the father
I was actively a-theistic and such. Until 33 I was.
Until the age of reason.
Now I don't care so much what other people think, as I've not much time left to do my own.
My problem at the moment is the discovery of the idea that Christianity took from Plato, not only this, but Paul playing off the Platonic theory of the “Unknown God in his Areopagus sermon. Was God writing the Bible, or was it men living in the times and having to write in opposition to the Roman religion? It’s a tough spiritual question for me.
Indeed, Jesus was essentially a millenarian Hebrew prophet; Paul and the Catholic Church transformed him into a cosmic figure. Christianity would not have survived without it, but it was essentially a betrayal of his message and mission.
Well said. To me, the issue is whether there is a creator or not. There is no “proof” either way…just a type of logic. An atheist CAN say that matter/energy are natural and eternal…and that everything is built on that premise. Doing so is challenging though, because of the atheistic characteristic towards science…which is largely grounded in reproducibility and the need for cause and effect. Believing in the eternal nature of matter and energy is a violation of our understanding of science.
As a result, believers can say that science is built on cause and effect and thus, matter and energy must have a cause. That cause must be eternal and thus outside the natural world, thus it is ‘supernatural. One can call that cause the creator or god
I do think believers get into a bit of trouble when expanding on the above and discussing their ‘personal relationship’ with god or of ‘god’s love’ for us. I am not comfortable with the evidence supporting it. To play devil’s advocate towards my own position, given that there appears to be a trend in things wanting to live, I can understand how one can create an entire moral system on that observation…and infer a creator’s ‘love’ for us as a result.
I don’t particularly care about religious tenets (e.g. Christian, Islam, etc)…and I don’t think they are needed.
I lean towards deism.
I'll check out Hallow, thank you sir.
Please ask yourself why Hallow has seemed like something you want to engage with? Following deadens the heart.
They do not seek Him because they are cowards, lest God answers and they lose their excuse. :/
1:18, 4:31, 5:19, 7:27, 9:30, 10:30
No. We can not kill him. At least in me. I’ve lived through to much, seen too much, heard too much, felt too much and thought too much for him to be killed. My faith is steadfast.
I think you missed the point.
Just amazingly precise.
I won't answer the God question, but the morality question. Hayek had a genius moment, he wrote that morality comes from tradition and that tradition is an algorithm of a particular type. What he described in "The Fatal Conceit" is near to the traveler sale problem which is a NP-type algorithm (very complex). He also add that rational and irrational experiences are needed to envision all the possibilities that will provide an answer, so rationalism/skepticism can't come near a solution in comparison to tradition. He ended that paragraph by saying "it is the most rational thing to do to accept this" and he took him a very long time according to him.
Break from you're fleshly desires for it wars against you're spirit and tires you're soul
Forgive. Let go.
For some of us atheists, it's simply a matter of living long enough, and taking a good hard look around.
Jordan Peterson is the spirit of john the baptist... He who cries in the wilderness who prepares the way .... Im fully convinced of it. 🤔
Are you expecting another Messiah?
Jesus Keeps me Safe and Free and Gives me Love and Peace 😇. Everything I Need! Just Believe.
Summarise of the vid:
1) Freedom is not fully because our thinking is confined within certain sphere and also because our physical reach is limited. Values cannot be created but can only be discovered because the mortality and limitation of man necessitates it.
2) Prayer seems to be an exercise for the mind to normalise it's encouters (i.e. to deal with grief)
3) Experiences causes the mind to consolidate and rationalize. This then converge on a messianic figure which in Dr Jordan's discussion would be jesus.
4) The heart (which i guess is analogous to soul + intelligence instead of the real heart) pursue values that is lofty and better than what the world can provide
5) majority of atheists seems to be atheist because they had bad interactions.
Thoughts:
In all honesty, whatever was discussed in this showrt 13 min can be reversed to support against a primordial god.
1) Freedom is not fully free which suggests that transcendence is impossible. Values is derivative because it is found therefore providing no evidence that life was built on top of transcendental values. Thus, we cannot say that there is a God (abrahamic type) and we cannot claim that this deity is moral.
2) If prayers are mediations and meditations are prayers then the mystical or supernatural aspect of prayers is naught. We can call it more of therapy than a ritualistic manner to gain favor.
3) Experiences draw us to metaphysical, doesn't that also mean that religions are fantasies?
4) Well, the heart of many people also suggest that love is love but the Abrahamic faith is pushing against LGBTQ+
5) Majority of religionists have also become religious because atheists treated them badly. What are we really talking about here? Isn't it normal to get offended everyday by different thing and different people of different background? In addition, these atheists may have been responding to the notion of chrisitianity changing people to be better person. It may not mean that the bad experiences are the reason for their cynicism.
These ads are not welcome
God created us...after we were done creating him.....Peace!
I had some friends from Nepal who I would say embodied more closely the Values I think Jordan Peterson was talking about of personal responsibility, responsibility to their parents, and responsibility to their communities. They are very hard working humble and social. I’m unfortunately the opposite and I would say for part of those reasons I don’t talk to them. The weight of responsibility of helping them felt too great.
My feelings sometimes when talking to them was that they were too naive and didn’t understand like I do the culture that defines the western world.
In some ways that may be true but I can’t shake the feeling that their small country with thousands of years of passed down traditions is ultimately the model that the west is returning to.
For a long time the west has played with the exploitation of natural resources and sometimes some people. (This isn’t to say that other cultures haven’t done the same.)
The illusion of abundance is coming undone as it is redistributed and the unholy powers of progress that men thought they had are being revealed to be merely at others expense.
I forgot to mention the bad qualities (in my opinion) of my Nepali friends. Over sharing and feelings of jealousy or shaming if you have more. An entitlement to you sharing your time and energy with them likely coming from a more collectivistic culture.
So It seems the devil will have to stay because nobody will last a day with God.
An optimal strategy for personal freedom will have to be found then to pursue wealth, health and everything else we were told we would have. While not totally fucking everyone LOOL
Thank you both, God bless you.
Fascinating, although I wish JBP would permit PK more time to speak. I am very active in AA and one of the aspects of Alcoholics Anonymous I find most distressing is the line in the Big Book; 'a God of your understanding'. This line, by many, is wilfully misinterpreted to mean 'you can define God for yourself'. AA advocates a spiritual programme, this however is not a spiritual understanding of this one line. For advocates of this outlook, they may cease drinking, they will not however become 'sober' or be permitted to carry the message to others. In hoc signo vinces ✝
Alcoholics Anonymous is/was a
“seeker friendly” spiritual program.
The entire original plan is to get yourself out of your own way, take the log out of your own eye and be in contact & rely on “higher power”
daily.
12 Steps don’t promise to make a Christian out of you instantly or ever but the Pride v Humility issue get addressed often.
We are co-creators with the Larger Consciousness System. Consciousness is the only thing that is Fundamental.
Learning so much
Peter looks amazing for 85!
Love ❤️ Jordan B Peterson
Jordan, have you talked about Hegel's philosophy (Phänomenologie des Geistes)? If so, where?
Mıchelangelo yes because of Last judgement
I don't really care, I fear no judgement, forget about heaven and make friends here, tribes and comunities.
Yikes 😬 you should care deeply care cause this life is very very temporary.
12:04 And its also people/ world generally if not religious. Because what is around you IS God in the sense as God is in the end everything. Particularly your parents as image of God that should reflect that image on you and if your father makes you hurt and to become rebel, you automatically rebel to God in some levels even if you would become christian its hard to get in real relationship with Him and let Him close.
there is also snake seed though :) 1 moshe 3.15
God is the ultimate implication of our hierarchical reality. The nature of reality infers God.
God is the _hotheos,_ the primary cause and source upon which all of existence necessarily draws from. Whether one believes that source is intelligent or not, everything _has_ to trace their existence back to that first cause. And unless one proposes a cosmology wherein the universe is locked in a continuous cycle of beginning and ending, one can't logically assert that primary causality doesn't exist.
Nothing in nature “infers” a magical invisible ape deity who obsessed over the diet, clothing, and mating habits of lower apes.
Indeed: and if Lobsters had a God, he would be Lobster-like!
@@anolisa1939 If we exist in a hierarchy, which we do, then something is at the top. Every action, every structure, every thing we do relies on hierarchy. You don’t think clothing, diet and mating habits contribute to quality of life? Those are the most basically essential aspects of human life. Why wouldn’t they contribute to the ultimate good?
@@06rtm Living organisms are variable, yes, but that is not evidence for some god like topper upon this tree of life. The attributes most valuable in one situation, may prove fatal in another (Ex. An apex predator could become so adept & specialized at obtaining a certain prey type, that it would fail to survive in an environment absent those prey animals.) A mathematician could be the top authority in his field, yet rank at the very bottom in a hierarchical system prioritizing marksmanship, or sewing skills.
And no, I don’t believe mixing fabrics, eating bacon, or sexing up alternative holes will make anyone’s life worse off. However, I do think it can be very harmful to ignore reality, and instead pursue comfort about in myth & fiction.
Good Day, Dr. Peterson. Have you heard of the Hare Krishna movement (ISKCON)? Please comment on your view of such practices. Their philosophy is very much in line with yours and Dr. Kreeft's.
A Game Has Developer's To Craft A Fun Experience Within The Confines And Rules Of A Simulation Regardless How Free It Is IT is Subordinate To Something Just As Our Creations Have Purpose We Have Divine Purpose We Can't Escape The Atom Nor Whould IT Benefit Us To
I enjoy listening to Jordan Peterson because he's a smart guy and he provides solid advice to live your life by. He also appeals to young people which is desperately needed during these times where up is down and down is sideways. But in my opinion, when he gets into spiritual matters, he is unable to close the loop (for lack of a better term) because he seems to refer more to God as a construct than a living being, a view akin to the absent clockmaker some have accused Him of being.
Jordan constantly refers to Nietzsche and Jung when he makes his arguments for God instead of scripture. I don't know if it's because he doesn't feel well versed enough in the Bible beyond Genesis to incorporate it into his commentary (that would be a valid reason) but sorry, Nietzsche and Jung are not the sources someone should turn to to discover the active role God plays in our lives.
But who knows. Maybe Jordan just doesn't honestly see God in an active capacity in his heart. Perhaps his past training and education in psychology are too deeply ingrained for him to allow it. I have heard him refer to God as a lawgiver, the source for morality, but if that's all there is to it we are all damned because no one is capable of living a sin-free life, no matter how clearly defined the rules may be. This is because we have a fallen nature. Jordan knows that because I've heard him say as much when he points out the flaws within Marxist philosophy. There was only one truly innocent man in all of creation, one man capable of meeting Gods standards and he took on our sins so we can be reconciled with the Father. That is the essence of Christianity anyway. I know other faiths see things differently but none of their messages of salvation come from secular sources either. All of them are based on scripture of one form or another.
Like I say, I like listening to Jordan and appreciate the work he does, but I would not recommend him when it comes to matters of faith and God's role in the world. But that's me.
Oh oh! I can answer this one.
Yes.
Straight forward.
Even in the Bible we get the idea that gods were human-made. The problem for those criticizing the one making gods from wood or stone, is the very same critique can be pointed in their direction in regard to Yahweh. When we examine the Hebrew God, we find very human traits and characteristics and behaviors. So much to bring the idea that even Yahweh himself was a Human creation. So many Humans still turn to Lord Yahweh or Lord Vishnu, or Lord Whatever. Often without asking why. But those who begin to ask these questions. Are the ones who begin to understand that all these gods, and goddesses are simply products of somebody's imagination. So many that are breaking themselves away from these possibly made-up deities, are realizing what true self-liberation is all about.
Saw the thumbnail before I saw the title and immediately thought JP was referring to Trudeau 😂
Yes indeed
Dauphin River First Nation Manitoba Canada 🇨🇦
pretending god exists does not make it so. Humans created many gods, in order to control and manipulate other humans. For some, believing in god is very beneficial but for many, it's a very bad idea. You have to figure out which scenario you are in the midst of and choose accordingly. And which god to believe in is also a question you have to ask yourself. Survival is the goal, even prosperity, but not everlasting life. That is a whole other story.
Pretending God doesn't exist doesn't make it so.
@@allen_tor you must be a believer, I hope that is working out for you
Jordan B. Peterson's new book titled Yahweh is blasphemous. If he intends on convincing people of the importance of knowing God (even just the practical utility), starting your book by outright denying the divinity of Christ defeats the purpose. Christ saved billions throughout history. He is more than a Platonic Ideal. He is more than an archetype of the unconscious, or the abstract Logos.
*He is God.*
I never understood how can someone say that something in bible was written by god. Why can't god just tell it to you personally? Why do you need another person who is gonna tell you what god told them?
You would want to hear someones elses interpretation on the bible so that you could discussion about philosophy and past humanity.Or you could just read it and interpret it yourself. What do you need god to baby you or something?
Nothing in the bible was written by God. The Bible was written by humans that were inspired by eternal ideas and represents hundreds of years of experience synthesized into the closest thing to truth possible.
God can and does speak to you personally, through dreams.
You need the wisdom of others that came before you because they spent generations creating ways of being that passes the rest of time and strives toward the good. If you think you can offhandedly create new values within 50 years that beats the values that thousands of people painstakingly discovered over thousands of years, let me know how that works out. But you wouldn't read the Bible, God should tell you all that "personally"
Don't cast pearls to swine, I suppose.....
“Why can’t god just tell it to you personally?” Because deity’s don’t exist.
A person’s religion is based entirely on the era & location of their birth, the beliefs of their parents, and their genetic susceptibility to dogmatic belief. Religion has never been about trusting in a god/goddess…rather, it’s about trusting the people who purport to speak for said god/goddess. With hundreds of so called “prophets” making countless diverging claims, it would be a miracle to choose the correct babbling lunatic, even if an actual god/goddess was communicating with them via private brain-mails.
1Samuel 8:6((B.S.B.))✝️
Well… What do you mean by “humans” and “God”?
Also, What do you mean by “create”?
🤔🤔
11:33 - I feel like that last segment is quite true to what I've witnessed to others around me and in my personal life. I was born a Christian, eventually decided that God doesn't exist and defined myself as an athiest, and today I'm a Muslim. It does seem that those who decide to reject the existence of God often have had a significantly negative emotional experience with someone, or many others, that deem to be acting out of the righteousness defined by their religion. It then becomes extremely hard for them to ever come back to their original faith or another. I didn't plan so much on becoming a practicing Muslim. I thought I would live the rest of my life as an athiest. I eventually came across a set of events in my life that were extremely uncanny while I was trying to understand the religion of Islam and as much as I tried to apply my understanding of pyscology, statistics, and math (all of which I am far from being an expert on to be fair), I couldn't help but stop rejecting these events and deeming them as a coincidence and eventually I had the most significantly positive emotional experience that I have had in my life and I still question it until this day how these things could be. When these things happened, I thought that this may all just be a matter of my cognitive biases or of my mind trying to find meaning in these event, and although those questioned still stand I can't deny the amount of good it has brought me and how many bad things is has taken me away from. If anyone has thoughts on this, I would like to know your thoughts.
You mentioned your familiarity with psychology, math and statistics in relation to Islam. Do you believe that Islam holds up against scientific scrutiny from those subjects? Also, I’m curious to hear your take on the same question but instead of Islam it’s Christianity.
@@CompletelyRandomAndUnknown your whole question is invalid the instance you are asking about the guy's "believe" regarding science and religion and whether or not Islam holds up against scientific scrutiny.
The guy turned to Islam because of "uncanny events" in his life which is the equivalent to a person seeing a weather phenomena the person can't explain, because lack of knowledge about the forces of nature, and then draws the conclusion that it must be aliens from outer space.
- To say it straight, it's the lack of knowledge, enlightenment and critical thinking that makes sense of religion to people.
I agree with Jordan as well. People who were mistreated by religious cults can not open that door to God. Though as a Christian I do not believe Islam is the answer, it may well provide you some peace. For others it provides no answers or peace. You may eventually get to a place where you can ask God for the truth. 'Ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you will find,......'
This
Your first statement is a lie. No one is born a Christian. A Christian is a follower of Christ. No one is born following. We are born fallen.
So absurd saying a large % of atheist got hurt by religious figure as a child so that's why they formed that belief system.🤣 You're a smart man Jordan who I would think knows a lot about biology,laws of physics,the universe,etc. I would tend to believe that deep down inside you know damn well the odds of a Judeo-Christian all knowing and powerful diety creating the universe is about as good as me hitting the power ball lotto tonight. Religion was created / invented to help ease mankinds deep seated fear of death. BTW the reason I'm agnostic is because I learned about science, physics,the universe,etc and after doing so it was pretty much impossible for me too base my belief system on a bronze age story book!
Growing up in foster care and in rejection through my family,
it’s lead me to think what is my purpose
Personally
It’s either Suicide or God for me!
The way I see life without a God
Is for it all to be lost for what I built up in time
family, friends, career, ect.
why go through with any of it
if death is surely to have the last laugh
Why tease myself
why even begin
Choose life, not death. For God is not the God of the dead, but of the Living. He is the living God. He has defeated death.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Ah... Existential crisis... To disintegrate is very good sign... Now you can reintegrate. 💕
These ads are too long man
God is silence. If You disagree with this fact? Prove it.
You've made a claim, so you need to present evidence to back it up. Also, what would be the difference between a silent god and no god?
What is silence? If God is being itself then God “speaks” through all existence. For something like God to be silent is for nothing to exist. Refuted.
Not always. I think only certain monks take the oath of silence. We need to talk to people. If you have a wife and kids we need to explain things to them etc. God created the world in his wisdom, and humans in his image, the wisdom part is from St.Thomas Aquinas which really makes sense to me.
@@joelogjam9163 it's hard to answer a question which is absurd in its reason. That's like saying what would be the difference between a pseudo-cat and transforfish. Can't just plaster words together.
@@joelogjam9163 Read carefully And understand. I said (Silence) is what people call God. It is not someone or something you can see or touch, whether Alive or dead.
Jesus Christ is the King of kings and the Lord of lords!
You can't kill what doesn't exist.
If you are lucky to find this comment, I LOVE YOU
AW!
No homo. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Absolutely. Since the beginning of time man has pondered the reason for his existence and explain the unexplainable by building structures to govern their societies. God is nothing more than an ideal to live a more civilized life in harmony with your neighbors. Man created commandments and laws. They wrote that you're being watched 24/7 and so you better not break any of the commandments , at the end of your life you'll go to heaven above or hell down below. What a crock everybody thought and still do weather they want to believe me or not. Most people won't kill, rob, steal, cheat or lie if they think they're being watched by the law. If they think they're alone with only them and God watching, they're libal to do any or all of the above mentioned things. God is nothing more then the LAW. That's it. Believe in God, it's good for society 🙏
You'll find out buddy. I hope you're young ..... So you have time to find the truth.
@@caseywhite3150 even primitive humans with their undeveloped brians made up the answer to the reason of their existence by thinking of a simple and convincing answer which was god
That's how simple the answer was
So, did he say yes or not?
I do not like that term “Judeo-Christian”.
They deny our savior, say he is a false prophet.
That is not a minor difference.
Yeah lets fight over our differences in opinion. Because that's what it means to be religious am i right
Despite the religious schism, Christianity is very clearly built on the foundation of Judaism. As such, having a phrase indicating elements common to both traditions (aka most of them) is valid.
thanks. The Jews might lay claim but they do reject Christ and thus the truth so the jewish people have no right to make claims to divine truth. they are clearly denying it themselves.
@@Xbalanque84 Is that all you want, "valid"? It's a new term. It's so much easier and accurate to leave out the "Judeo" part, which had absolutely nothing to do with our founding. It is much more efficient and accurate to just say "Christian"
@@Xbalanque84 It's a woke term. And it's frankly inaccurate. Especially the main way it's used, in reference to "the values our country was founded on". Judeos have nothing to do with the founding of our country. They didn't come here til after reconstruction, to take advantage of us while we were down and take control of the economy.
Another way to say that is.....some would say, " Lord show me and I will believe."And the Lord says" believe and I will show you"
I love this quote, but I wonder the purpose of believing in God with faith rather than evidence. It makes sense but I can't find a way to word it.
@@Caleb-Reid without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Hebrews 11:6
@@tyton3 Sure sure I understand, but I guess I'm asking why. Is it because belief solely because of evidence isn't true love? I think that makes sense
@@Caleb-Reid I would say that that’s a good way of looking at it. Love and trust go hand in hand. I honestly don’t fully understand why it pleases God but I know it’s very important. Believing God even though we don’t physically see him with our eyes is a purely spiritual exercise, and God himself is a spirit. Better yet, God, who is a spirit, became flesh like we are, as Jesus Christ and died for our sins to save us from ourselves.
It's all mystery. Adam and Eve had at least a thinner veil, it did not keep them from falling. The feminine is definitely more tied to sin than the masculine. But she's also more tied to the full experience of life giving love. if we had Direct access to a limitless omniscient God, we may be inclined to treat him like a genie, and abuse the relationship, and love is more of a challenge.
You could live for thousands of years and never plumb the depths of God's mind, or understand fully his ways.
I think it's a discovery, not a creation.
Most curious
The third commandment say “Do not take the Lord’s name in vain “. It actually says “Do not carry” which actually means if you are going to act religious, be religious because when you act disgusting God suffers.
A god that can suffer by the actions of its creation is no true god.
Very good. ❤
As an atheist it's quite annoying hearing that last part. Dawkins is not 'reactionary' in that sense that JP is talking about. JP also uses his comment section to generalize why atheist are atheist. The problem with that is not only the credibility of the source, but his thesis that atheist are reactionary to some sort of betrayal is obviously incorrect. In Sweden for instance, 70-80% of the population are atheist. Does JP think that all of those millions of people are reactionary??
The lack of enlightenment is reason why humans made up Gods, to make a meaning of complex questions both scientific and humane meanings
Yes Humans made Gods and religions are useful like Spinoza said.
We value the things that make us happy, long and short term. Its human not religious
Religion is the hierarchy that orders those values.
@@06rtm How does this harmonize with all the atrocities done in the name of religion?
@@SuperBjankaBad people do bad things but that does not discredit the things they believe in or the the things they belong to. Truth is not changed by an individuals actions.
For example, say a politician makes a racist comment on a Twitter post. Does that discredit the entire political party they belong to? What if they apologize? What if the political party comes out and condemns the comment? Would you not vote for that party because a member made a wrong decision. No, judge the party according to truth and not actions.
How would you define God? In some sense, God seems to be indefinable because everything is God. So the question becomes kinda silly, does Everything exist? Did people create Everything? 🤔
God: A superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
If you define God like this, then it definitely doesn't exist, there is no evidence. Yet, if you pay attention to the video above, our very existence is the evidence. Therefore the definition should be broader.
@@maxwithanaxe713 Why? Broadening the definition to encompass “everything” renders the term completely meaningless. In truth, we don’t know why we’re here, or how our existence came about. Claiming otherwise is both dishonest, and intellectually lazy.
@@anolisa1939 God is not a 'superhuman being'. He is being itself. You can't quantify the Creator
@@anolisa1939, broaden the term makes it meaningless? But I don't see how you could not. If you limit the term to anything really, Got becomes a guy in a sky, and again, no avidence of God's existence then. Not know the answer and not looking for it is intellectually lazy. You are switching meanings there.
Have a talk with j caviezel and j malkovich
Lake St. Martin First Nation Manitoba Canada 🇨🇦
I’ve heard many of the best Atheist arguments against God, but none of them came close to destabilizing my faith like the psychological abuse my wife and I received from “God’s people”.
Can you expand on this? I'm intrigued.
"There is not enough love and goodness in the world to permit giving any of it away to imaginary beings" - Nietzsche
True and honest love is not expendable but it's generated woth every beat of one's heart
That was a fascinating load of horshit
There is plenty of people who are willing to sacrifice your love to prop up theirs. There are plenty of people willing to hide behind the authority of those imaginary beings to sacrifice the well being and love of people who aren't part of their church.
@@elinope4745
If by "church" you mean "mosque."
@@Xbalanque84 Religious group, all religions have at least a few groups of these types of people.
I find it interesting how I do not at all relate to their experience with other atheists. Of course religion and gods are attractive stories, that's why religion persists despite the complete absurdities. And I was never hurt by a believer when I was young. I took an honest look at the evidence for and against and found the evidence for the existence of a god lacking.
Whether or not religion is attractive is immaterial to its truth just as much as whether a believer hurt me is irrelevant. If you cannot convince me with good reasons to believe, I will not believe.
I give it like 1 year before JP converts to Catholicism.
Man's got that airpod drip
yeah but thats not enough