Helldivers are special forces essentially, their primary job is to disrupt enemy operations and supply lines, while SEAF regular forces grind down the enemy. The combination of Helldiver asset and capability denial and SEAF regular forces conventional warfare slowly but surely grinds down their enemies into dust one planet at a time.
Literally the glitched shield pack that blocked ALL melee attacks a couple weeks ago was confirmed as canon and part of “general brasch’s personal stash”
@@sparkls4492 How about the fact that a literal cannon that both explodes and burns/melts targets, that is found on a ship many times bigger than even the biggest enemy we currently have in the game?
Today, there are 200 million helldivers KIA in Jin Xi sector ALONE. Thats one TERMINID sector. There is Hydra and Lacalle Sectors, which both have about 320 million Helldiver casualties alone. And thats just 3 sectors. Malevelon Creek had 170 million casualties There are much more helldivers on standby than just 400 million
BTW, Helldivers have even more easier access to plasma weaponry than the UNSC. Even energy shields are not problem for Helldivers in terms of mass producing.
The super earth simpage is real with this one... There there kiddo im suuuuure they would win mhm mhm mhm.... The people that can barely stop a few insects and car assembly drones..... LOL!
@@brentonherbert7775 You couldn't even think of any good arguments so you preferred to go straight to treating others as if they were children, that is certainly the attitude of a child.
One thing to not overlook is a Helldiver’s religious, fanatical loyalty to Super Earth. They aren’t afraid of death, and they will fight tooth and nail obeying any order given. If one diver falls, their comrades aren’t dismayed or affected at all really. Every soldier is expendable, all for the glory that is Managed Democracy🫡
Technically the Covenant also had zealously loyal soldiers as well, but the Helldivers would still have the advantage in that category. The Covenant had civil wars like the Unggoy rebellion, and there was also animosity between some of the species (most notably Sangheli vs Jiralhanae), whereas Super Earth’s government seem to be much more efficient at maintaining morale. Only the Chaosdivers seem to pose any real threat, and even then they technically fight for the people of Super Earth if not their government.
@@JC-eo2qe The cyborg/automaton faction is a result of civil rebellions against super earth, and one common mission on bug planets is to destroy illegal broadcast towers...that bugs wouldn't be able to build or use at all. Likely there is much more dissent and civil unrest than super earth would have you believe, but they are masters of propaganda so we'll never know the truth. Chaosdivers are just non-canon player bullshit.
@@StickmanAdam lol, merely glassed? Did you see what the Helldivers did to Meridia when it decided to stop being a tropical paradise and catered to the bugs?
@@StickmanAdam sacrificing super earth itself to save the glorious ideal of super earth seems like exactly the kind of doublethink the HD universe would be perfectly okay with.
Super Earth won a three-way war despite being outnumbered, outgunned, and outsmarted. They adapted faster than most sci-fi factions, reverse-engineering technology within weeks and using it to their advantage on a large scale. Their Helldivers' FTL capability was several times faster than the Covenant's, giving them the edge in battles. Even if the Covenant had the chance to exploit the technology, their history of rebellions and parasitic infestations would make it difficult for them to do so effectively, especially if the planet had Forerunner artifacts. Comparing the feats of Super Earth and the Covenant, the gap is too significant. Super Earth transitioned from a nuclear wasteland to a galactic superpower in less than a century, while the Covenant, despite having overwhelming advantages, struggled to maintain control over a single galactic arm over thousands of years using second-hand technology.
"Several times faster" is an understatement. Super Earth FTL is instantaneous. It's honestly Forerunner-tier, lol. UNSC slipspace drives afaik have rates measured in "lightyears per day". It's laughable in comparison.
@@AmandaFessler yup. Super Earth would repel the forces of the USNC with ease unless SEAF is banned and can only rely on hell divers for the battle for whatever reason.
You really cant compare the the Halo enemy to the Helldivers enemies lol. You are very much underestimating the Halo lore. For example the Terminids do spread fast but the Halo Flood spread even faster, they can literally infect you via airborne particle spores. The Bots are very advance but the Forerunners make them look like child play, they literally had universe scale killing weapons lol. The UNSC actually has better tech then Super Earth, they have better ships, better trained forces, better equipment, MUCH better vehicles. For example the mechs; The UNSC Mantis has superior Gauss chainguns, carries more ammunition, is faster, more durable and has shielding. Their fighter jets carry very similar armaments with nukes and bombing runs but their space artillery is significantly stronger, a MAC canon makes Super Earths 380 barrage and 500kg bombs look bad lol. The only thing the Hell Divers have them beat is their numbers but the UNSC did have a very LARGE military too and even with the better tech, literal super soldiers and reverse engineering Covenant weapons they still technically lost, they only survived because of the Flood and the Banish Rebellion. Yes Super Earth has supposedly faster ships but even they cant fly thru enemy lines, the Covenant literally jumped to earth, messed it up and then left just as quick.
Short answer: Yes Long Answer: Super Earth conquered the galaxy in a 3 front war by 2084. Helldivers would crush the covenant To offer a few major corrections 1: Super Destroyers are not the only ship in the SEAF, they're just the only ones Helldivers use. 2: Helldivers only deploy when it's clear enough to deploy, the SEAF is the front line grunts while Helldivers are spec-ops 3: Super Earth has access to plasma and energy weapons, along with energy shield bubbles that can survive literal mini nukes 4: Super Earth is, REALLY GOOD at backwards engineering pretty much anything 5: Super Earth is really good at wars of attrition. They can basically imperial guard the covenant 6: Mech go brrt 7: Dark Fluid exists. That's just it I am yet to see the covenant defeat literal black holes The covenant will put up a fight, but super earth is basically the inverse of the UNSC, it's humanity as the dominant species in the galaxy that has the history and capability to punch up effectively. The covenant would find themselves with just as much hell as they could potentially give. But the one thing super earth has that the covenant are not prepared for: Humanity in halo was struggling in the moral department. They had to push so much propaganda and keep the whole war secret just to lose at a manageable rate. Super Earth has an almost unbreakable moral. And moral is an invaluable tool in a war.
While i am a huge halo fan, i agree! Illuminate alone are the covenant grade enemy (in some aspects, even more advanced) and Super Earth did defeat them, terminids and cyborgs at the same time.
Would also like to point out that if the covenant get out of hand and start taking planet, super earth will just destroy its own planets instead of letting them be lost.
@@Blindstrike01 true I don't think the covenant are ready for the literal black hole Somehow Super Earth does planet destruction better because *forbidden grape soda*
Fellow Halo lover here, a couple of points. 1. I don't deny a battle with a covenant destroyer would be very difficult, but there is a way to get around the shields. A covie starship has to drop its shields to fire its cannons. So timing shots would have to be perfect. 2. The covenant don't glass every single planet, only significant ones. Even by covenant standards, glassing takes a massive amount of energy. 3. I would lightly counter the claim of ghosts being good on all terrain. Because of the height off the ground, no contact with the ground and speed, they would be less effective on the rocky and jungle planets. It would be heavy casualties on both sides, but I ultimately think the Helldivers would win for a few reasons. 1. They do have the technology to beat the covenant. Helldivers have little regard to their own survival or friendly fire, if it means defeating the enemy. 3. We know Super Earth is adept at reverse engineering enemy tech, and it's not as big a leap for them as it would be the UNSC. Plus the abundance of resources at the Divers' disposal would mean anything developed would rapidly reach the whole fleet. The only way I see the covenant winning is by being fast in destroying the Divers, before they have a chance to learn and engineer any countermeasures.
imagine the covenant seeing bunch of helldivers stand back up from over-dozing the stim they carried. even the fanatic like Covenant would feel a slight fear of "zombie-like" human charging at them, bombarding high explosive / napalm along the way regard of their safety. literally fighting Korps of KRIEG at that point.
I think that the space battles against the Covenant would be like the Cario station in Halo 2 but in reverse. The Super Destroyers would take every opportunity to fire Hellpods in an attempt to board the ship, the Helldivers look for any weak spots while engaging in gunfire with the Coventant, then assemble one or more Hellbombs. Run to the ship's bay, rescue whoever is left alive in a Pelican and repeat.
assuming the SEAF is banned for this battle then sure the Covenant might win but is all of the Super Earth forces are able to be used then the SE wins 10 times out of 10. hell divers are not the main fight force. they are special forces designed to hit key targets or break enemy lines that have halted the SEAF.
As a Halo lover, you seem to be forgetting a few key facts about the Covenant and the UNSC. 1. The UNSC were losing and never would have won if it wasnt for the Flood and Banish Rebellion during the war. In fact the UNSC never even fought the full force of the Covenant, they always only fought small portions of them at a time. The Covenant military was INSANE in numbers. 2. The Covenant will gladly glass a planet if it means an easy victory. 3. The UNSC tech is actually arguably better then the Helldivers. Their space ships are better, their super solder units are far superior, their air strikes are actually very similar but the UNSC definitely have the Divers beat in terms of heavy vehicles. For example the UNSC Mantis is better then the Divers Mechs in every way; faster, more durable with shielding, gauss chain guns are better then normal chain guns they even carry more ammunition. The UNSC vehicles are actually on par if not even better then the bots tanks. The only thing the Divers are potentially better is their weapon range of high penetration and plasma weaponry but honestly if a Spartan Laser cant turn the war for the UNSC then neither of those are gonna help the Divers lol. 4. Yes Super Earth is quick at reverse engineering but so was the UNSC, they literally reverse engineered the shields and cloaking from them and they even knew and studied the covenant weapons and vehicles and trained their soldiers to use them. Buck's ODST squad from Halo knew how to fly Phantoms however ironically the best equipment for them was actually their ballistics, like the MAC canon was actually effective against Covenent cruisers. Super earths biggest weakness is their space ships and if they cant survive space then all it takes if the Covenant to simply glass the planets. 5. I honestly believe the Helldivers could beat the Banish but they dont stant a chance against the Covenant at full strength let alone a flood infestation or a Forerunner attack.
To the comment above, yes the mantis, cloaking, and shields may have been better in performance. But difference I assume is that Helldivers mechs and equipment were more likely designed with mass production as a priority.
Because of how slow the Covenant are to adopt new technology and how extremely militarized super Earth is to the point of trying to weaponize nearly anything and everything. The Helldivers would very quickly start adopting and advancing their technology to match or surpass the Covenant after they get their hands on some wreckages/samples. After a year or less of combat they would likely start overtaking the Covenant unless the Covenant started treating them like the flood and just glassed everything and anything.
Super Earths navy obviously doesn’t just consists of Super Destroyers though, they’re made for low orbit engagements not naval combat SEAF navy must be even more massive
Keep in mind that Super Destroyers are used almost exclusively by the Helldivers Corps., and they are considered the special forces units. Special forces only make up a fraction of the forces in a single branch of the military i.e. Navy and Army. So that means that the number of Super Destroyers would only make up a fraction of the total vessels used by the SEAF.
@martechi4236 has an amazing series of videos of how Super Earth fleet might look like, they're beautiful and fill the gaps that arrowhead is not currently interesting in filling. But the DSS is basically going to be a Death Star and Super Earth has already made black holes (we think) out of planets, so Super earth is no slouch in the scorched planet policy field.
@@duncanharrell5009 If you think about it, the SEAF Navy most likely beat back the Automaton armada in space and blockaded most of their ships to allow Divers to retake the planets.
I bet on super earth Because in the first game, they managed to beat the faction that was hundreds of years more advanced while fighting to other enemies
@@gabusdeuxthose peace loving squids had actual mind control powers and a planet destroying device they’d use if they reached Super Earth (non-cannon since SE won the first war story wise but losing shows they blow it up)
@@gabusdeux those "peace loving squids" were not only leagues more technologically advanced than the covenant, but also had psychic powers to boot. They are basically the love child of the Tau and Eldar from warhammer 40k
The main difference between the Helldivers and the ODST is the descent capsule. The ODST capsule descends at high speed but they are maneuverable and at approximately 3 kilometers high it activates the parachute, reducing its speed to about 100 kilometers per hour, enough distance for a gunner with good aim to shoot them down. The Hellpods descend with additional propulsion when fired instead of having a rocket, so once you fire them you cannot change the trajectory, you will have a 3 meter bullet traveling at mach 5 and only about 50 meters from the ground the The retro-thrusters will be activated to control the fall a little, which is why a beacon is needed to indicate where to fire the Hellpods. But still in physical terms if a Hellpod falls on something it would be equivalent to being crushed by a cargo ship due to the kinetic energy.
Its worth noting that Super Earth specializes in fighting numerically superior forces. They also undoubtedly have a number of larger ships built for space combat rather than ground support.
Nah, Helldivers are used to fighting numerically superior foes, but humanity in the Helldiver's universe has near 40k levels of population. Helldivers are special forces and the SEAF in general is nearly incomprehensibly massive.
@lorehammer40k4 the reason nobody wins when 40k is because they fight on all fronts. Humanity was fighting a three front war including a species that literally breeds faster than cockroaches and a species that is far older and has had far more time to reproduce. The cyborgs were far fewer in number yes, but they diverted a third of SE's forces away from the other fronts. In short Super earth won a war that was harder (or at least on par with) Humanity's war in warhamer 40k. Super earth would crush in this fight no contest.
@@onikai7055 maybe, but if super earth's dinky little troop carriers can give them a run for their money due to shear numbers, what can SE cruisers, battleships and aircraft carriers do in similarly massive numbers? Also SE territory is massive. Even if the covenant destroyed the entire SE navy in the early war, SE would copy covenant tech and make a better fleet before the covenant could glass every world.
2 things i like to consider when talking about different lores conflicting in video games. 1. Video game mechanics vs real lore, people tend to forget that in books, cut scenes, and general lore is more accurate then just looking at how things work in gameplay, some full fledged spartans have actually died to things that would never kill chief in game, and how enemies feel to fight in helldivers is far different to how they feel to fight in halo. For instance, armor just works fundamentally differently. The diligence counter sniper would likely 1 shot a brute, but the dmr from halo does not 2. Especially with video games, we have little way of knowing the true extent of the lore, you brought this up with both games we have very little real information on the true number of soldiers, but one thing you should address is that looking at active players in helldivers, isn't the best representation of helldivers number, after all they won the first galactic war, helldivers 1 canonically happened. That means super earth has dozens of fully colonized planets, they were defence missions afterall. With that population of under super earth claiming they have 2 million helldivers feels off, and that's ignoring the obvios lack of mention for the SEAF, and like you, i too grew up with halo. So i am also very biased. But i also like to look at all sources to make the most accurate assumptions in these cases.
Another thing that someone else mentioned is that the game in helldivers 2 is a bit more accurate than the game in halo. I think I heard somewhere that all deaths in hd2 is canon, so we know AT LEAST how many helldivers have died
You have to remember that super destroyers are just space C-17s. They're entirely meant for helldiver support. They arent the F35s of the helldiver universe
Imagine planet with 20,000 players on it. It's 20k super destroyers in orbit. Each with hundreds of frozen divers and we don't even know what other space assets SE navy has.
Of course for balancing reasons we only get up to 5 of them before we're at the mercy of cooldowns. But that's still a potential *minimum* of 100k helldivers.
Money is on super earth with the covenant probably saying “these guys are more fanatical zealots than us…” obviously in Halo they have ODST but now imagine every single one of them has a personal arsenal of calling in mini nukes artillery powerful weapons, and suddenly every piece of land your conquering can’t be fortified because your playing a game of hide and seek trying to find a squad of shock troopers that are destroying important strategic assets to your war effort. I’d imagine some missions for helldivers would be “deliver this havoc nuke to that covenant carrier” and they’d have ships land on top to drop pod on. Worst case scenario Super Earth finds the home world for each alien species and tells the Helldivers “your mission is to drill this liquid into their planet” and suddenly the planet is breaking apart becoming a black hole
@@karal_the_crazy Does? i see people saying all sorts of crazy stuff super earth has but there is little to no lore for hell divers and most of it seems like head cannon or video game mechanics. Covenant easily steam rolls the hell divers
Hold on. This video took the Helldivers into account, but what about the greater SEAF? For all we know, for every helldiver, Super Earth has at least 100 SEAF soldiers. While they are without a doubt squishier, less trained, and less well armed than Helldivers, they still do use the standard liberator, which we know rips lighter bugs and bots apart, and likely do use support weapons and stratagems, just on a much, much smaller scale. I think if we take the SEAF and Helldiver corps into account, it may not even be a question. I think Super Earth would roll over the Covenant if the full force of the SEAF was deployed. And that's not taking into account how fast the Ministry of Science adapts to threats, and how easily they weaponize superior alien tech through samples, as we've seen via the Illuminate. Gaining ground from Super Earth would be downright impossible for the covenant, and the longer a war with Super Earth drags out, the more they adapt and the more effective it becomes at combatting whatever threat its faced with.
There are bodies of SEAF troops dead next to a destroyed devastator with a shovel jammed into its chest. SEAF troops are prepared to go full Kreig on robots twice their size.
@@AezryaKitsunei don’t think SE would even only limit them that, for all we know they would fund their main force SEAF like how US army arms theres, a ton of guns and vehicles.
One thing I haven't seen anyone mention is that: sure, there was at the peak player base, 500,000 concurrent players, that was from probably around a million if not more different people. Which would mean over a million Super Destroyers, and if the Super Destroyers only make up a smaller fraction of the SEAF Navy, I can't even imagine just how many of the Liberty class ships there are, not to mention the millions of Eagle-1s and Pelican-1s that would come with the millions of Super Destroyers. Basically, their navy is absolutely enormous.
@@VeryScarySmile And even then the helldiver superdestroyer is a support craft. It's not meant to be fighting in a naval engagement at all. Considering that superearth likely isn't stupid they will probably design ships for naval combat, if they don't already have any, and make better ships for naval combat.
The issue with comparing the super earth space navy (SESN?) to the covenant navy is our perspective as players. We effectively only ever engage planets where we have total space superiority, the automatons are forced to fire at us planetside. We are also the specialized orbital shock troops, one branch of the army. We don't see SEAF because we're the vanguard, we're ahead of them, we don't see the navy because they are our vanguard. TLDR: We can't compare space born assets because we never see them, and the super destroyer is a dedicated orbital bombardment craft.
You're right, we don't know anything concrete about the SEAF navy ships, but I believe it's possible to speculate about them based on information already present in the game. 1: The possibility of them having shields is high, since it is a common technology of Super Earth, and they have the advantage of not needing to lower their shields to shoot. 2: Super Destroyers are extremely numerous ships, and they only represent a fraction of the Navy, so it is possible that the other ships exist in equally large or even greater numbers. 3: Super Earth has access to several energy weapons, such weapons could give them greater ease in dealing with Covenant shields that the UNSC lacked. 4: Finally, there is also a high chance that they are very agile ships, since Super Destroyers have the ability to turn and move at extreme speeds through the orbit of planets.
@@LipeSun What makes you believe that their shielding would be on par with the covenant? Who’s ships could regularly tank into the triple digits of megaton yields and keep fighting. The covenant had the industry to produce millions of ships, and they did. Nothing to me suggests that SE plasma is on the same level as Covenant plasma, which can burn through armor with glancing shots, and with direct impact can burn through meters of treated titanium alloy. Plasma Torpedoes could track SE ships endlessly without halting, don’t know if they’d be agile enough to outrun it forever.
@@zenoohshit5498 I won't say for sure that I believe the shields of the SE ships are equivalent to those of the Covenant, but I will say for sure that they could at least withstand a few hits, and I say this based on personal shields (which are better than the Covenant's), in the vast majority of cases, Covenant personal shields can only withstand one hit from an anti-tank weapon before falling, and often the user dies with it, Meanwhile, Helldivers' shield backpacks are capable of withstanding a tank hit before falling and still keeping the wearer alive with little to no injuries, If personal shields can be this strong, then I imagine ship-sized shields should be able to withstand at least a few hits from some of the Covenant ships before being disabled. The Super Earth industry is also capable of producing hundreds of thousands of ships, given the size of the Super Destroyer fleet and the fact that huge numbers of them have already been destroyed, but this doesn't seem to be a bother to SE. Plasma weapons may not be on the same level as the Covenant's, but they are certainly not far behind, because they can burn through the armor of Devastators, whose armor is approximately equivalent to the armor of a Hanvee, Furthermore, they have an area effect, allowing them to take down several enemies at once. Lastly, Super Destroyers are capable of circling an Earth-sized planet in a few seconds, I don't know how fast Covenant plasma missiles are, but I doubt they'll be able to keep up with this for long.
the ftl jumps of the super destroyaers are just about instantaneous right? while the covenant have naval superiority, the helldiver's ability to mobilise quickly gives them a tremendous edge. allowing for hit and run tactics in massive amounts.
Some things that aren’t mentioned are super destroyers can move around a planet in seconds and it was stated that one super destroyer has enough firepower to destroy a small moon
A major factor few latch onto here: When your FTL moves you around at warp 9.999999, against most possible rivals in a sci-fi battle you get to choose every space engagement. Hell save the covies if the SEAF figured out how to practice tactical use of the alcubierre drive to blink their ships around.
Biggest issue is we don’t know Super Earths naval to naval capability. But we know the funding is there. Each individual helldiver has their own ship. That’s fucking insane. I cannot imagine the scale of the rest of the navy
"The cost of a single Helldiver Deployment is equal to the cost of a single 'Liberty' Class Cruiser." So the knowledge that there are other types of ships since we fight on a 'Super Destroyer' and the Eagle is effectively the fighter craft of choice here, safe to say that Super Earth DOES have a competent and diversified Space Navy.
Something I didn't see mentioned before: FTL is very near instantaneous in Helldivers. Slipspace travel still takes quite a while. Reach and CE are months apart, but the Covenant is significantly faster than the UNSC at Slipspace travel and the Forerunners were quite close to instantaneous travel (as seen in H4) That by itself is a massive advantage in space engagements.
Halo Reach fell on August 30, 2552. Halo CE started September 19, 2552. Thats not Months lol thats days and thats because there was actually multiple conflicts in between the 2 games. Yes Super Earth has faster ships but they are very weak, we can literally see them get taken out from the planets and their space armaments arnt very impressive. The UNSC ships have them beat especially with MAC cannons. Super Earth ships also cant travel past enemy lines which could mean they actually cant travel that fast and just have lots of 'clone ships' or they simply cant penetrate enemy space defenses. Whereas a very small Covenant fleet accidentally traveled straight to earth, absolutely destroyed their defenses then left just as quick lol.
@@phatdogwhile you are technically right about seeing ships get taken out those are super destroyers which are mainly built to provide orbital support and isn't one of their mains warships they use for fleet battles
@@phatdogahh yes cuz a planet surface gun able to shoot something from atmo is weak, ever thought of those scenes you see when a SD explodes, consider that the automaton gun is just that strong and not because the SD is weak?
@@unloyal4847maybe part of what he’s trying to say is true. Covenant ships were notorious for decimating titanium armor and metals as they were basically shooting stars at the unsc. So, even if super earth has bigger ships than the liberty class destroyer, that doesn’t change that the covenant have super earth bested in terms of tech. Also, guerrilla space warfare won’t work for super earths ships either, as the covenant have energy shields on their ships which can block attacks from super earth ships.
The way helldivers send small squads of troops willing to sacrifice themselves for any objective necessary combined with a seemingly unending number of ground troops I believe ground warfare would be near impossible for the covenant. Space warfare is a bit different due to a lack of knowledge. However I believe even though super destroyers are mostly an orbit to ground type vehicle they could likely perform space to space combat fairly well. The level of penetrative capabilities some strategems possess could be used for devastating the energy shield. The ems strike, railcannon, and laser come to mind. So we don't know the capability of super destroyer captains, pilots, and weapons officers, but I believe they could develop strategies to target the larger vessels while having pelicans and eagles performing defensive combat space patrols. Helldivers would definitely suggest aiming the hellpod system into the covenant ships and if successful would willingly sacrifice themselves to destroy power infrastructure or disable shielding to be rescued while higher damage strategems make quick work of exposed power cores. I don't think it would be any easy battle, but just remember. The helldivers turned meridia into a black hole through sheer numbers and determination.
Spartans are literally extremely trained super soldiers and better then Helldivers in every way. They were dropped into enemy territory in large numbers and still lost. The UNSC never actually fought the Covenants full force only small portions of it, in fact they only survive the war because of the Banish Rebellion and the Flood attack. We see Super Earth ships getting blown up from single hits from planetary guns implying they are very weakly armored and feature no shielding. The UNSC ship armaments actually make the Helldivers ships look very tiny too. MAC cannons are SIGNIFICANTLY bigger then the railcanon. They also feature Hellfire missile barrages and have jets that can drop nuke payloads. The UNSC has ODST drop pods which are basically identical to the Helldiver pods and they werent very effective at all against the Covenant ships, good idea tho and was used a few times in the Halo war. The covenants ground units make the Bots vehicles look like toys. And if you cant put up a fight against them in space then I'm sorry to say but their Glassing beam laser is significantly more deadly then the Helldivers one and they will show no mercy at terraforming planets from space.
Because there’s a difference between how many personnel were killed over a period of time and the limit of active personnel a military can logistically support and deploy at any given moment
@@yunggaryy3088ya but when more than 1 Billion deaths in less than a year of war, is considered more than acceptable. I think the scale of super earths military is much higher than that.
@@imjezzo1989 You cant take video game mechanics into conversations like this lmao. that is video game. there is not a HUGE ammount of lore in helldivers. if you really want to take mechanics of games into account then every spartan killed in multiplayer since Halo CE is canon and lends to the overall numbers of just spartans alone. You HAVE to separate game mechanics from lore.
@@freed991 There is the difference that helldiver's in game statistics, community choices, and if they win or lose is actually consideded for the games lore. Like when the helldiver resupply missions happened and you needed to defend the launch pods with frozen helldiver's. It shapes the story and the numbers are always changing. It's a fluid campaign. Halo instead is a strict cannon with a known amount of gen 2 and three Spartans (ignore the last spartan threes to leave onyx. As far as I know we don't know much about them yet) but the multiplayer is completely separated from the actual lore of the games itself. It's not really a fair comparison to make because both games are doing cannon in different ways. Sorry if this was a hard to understand ramble
just gonna point iut about helldivers againts snipers helldivers do have expierince against snipers illuminates theres also reason why a counter sniper weapom exist ingame
A big problem with the super destroyer is that its not meant for space combat, all the weapons are on the front and those are meant for orbital attacks
Yup, super destroyers are planetary assault ships, while space combat is the liberty class cruisers specialty. The only thing we know about them is they are as expensive as a super destroyer operation. You can actually see some on automaton planets and, in some cases, crashing down to the surface of a planet when you are doing an automaton mission.
@@bbunkey what you’re forgetting is that no enemy will voluntarily let you go ontop of them to attack, a super destroyer would be absolutely obliterated before they would have any chance to do that
@@Shadow-sword I’d assume due to the ships artificial gravity, all the crew would be leaning awkwardly and that’d make it harder for them to fire their weapons, but I’m no expert on sci fi space tactics lol
A lot of the comments here mention, SEAF forces, helldivers is only spec-ops, super earth is really good at reverse engineering tech, etc. I don't see any comments mentioning General Brasch. Pretty much the master chief of helldivers. (Lore accurate master chief) not game master chief
We've seen the training that Helldivers take, they're literally just expendable soldiers to throw on suicide guerrilla warfare missions. Yes they are trained and some survive to be very experienced like General Brasch but they are by no means anywhere near as trained or equipped like a Spartan lol. And to put it in perspective the Spartans were thrown on suicide missions too just like Helldivers but they basically never returned and only stalled the Covenant. The UNSC never fought the full might of the Covenant and only survived the war because of the Banish Rebellion and the Flood.
@@phatdog yeah, but there are billions of helldivers and about 2000ish spartans. Makes no sense comparing them. Also, spartans are expensive to make and takes time. Helldivers are just hot-headed fanatics that grow on every tree. They are super expendable.
@@phatdog The fact that their training is poor does not take away from their role as “Special Forces” that Super Earth gives them, however questionable it may be...
@@phatdog In Training? Without a doubt, but in Equipment?? They are more equal than you think: The Helldivers have a wide arsenal of weapons and armor, ranging from kinetic and laser weapons equal in capacity to those of the UNSC [the latter having unlimited ammunition], Plasma weapons that rival those of the Covenant and armor that does not have to envy much to the Spartan armor in terms of damage absorption, all this Without counting that each Helldiver Captain receives command of a *Planetary Siege Ship* with Subliminal capacity and practically Instant FTL and enough firepower to level a Small City several times.
The unsc is also very good at reverse engineering, they had forerunner engines and shields in a few years. They just didn't have room to breath because the convenent glassed most of their planets before they knew what was going on, and insurgent colonies were also a problem. The unsc was on the road to becoming an empire comparable to the SEAF. The convenent just hit them just before they got there. If the convenent got to the humans maybe a hundred years later they wouldn't have a chance.
A few corrections here: 1. Super Earth definitely has more to their navy than Super Destroyers and Cruisers. They can contend with Automaton space fleets, which when viewed from the ground consist of ships that make Super Destroyers look like toys. And that's not even counting the shadows of Illuminate ships you can sometimes see in skyboxes. Super Earth is hardly lacking in the space fighting department. 2. Super Earth has *rudimentary* energy shields. I wouldn't say they're as good as the Covenant, but they can definitely both bring and break through energy shields. Their application in the space fighting field, though, is definitely lesser, since Orbital Cannons can actually take out Super Destroyers meaning they don't have energy shields/don't have good energy shields. Maybe they only use them on Cruisers and up? 3. A Helldiver is likely approaching being comparable to a Spartan in capability, although obviously not quite as good. Their armor, although fairly meh in game, is canonically made of the same stuff the armor on the Super Destroyer is made of, so some kind of advanced light yet durable alloy like the Spartans. They can use experimental and totally not addictive stims to shrug off grievous injury and boost their physical capability - without which they can already carry and run with dozens of kilos of weapons, grenades, ammo and armor. 4. Unlike the Spartans, Helldivers are not the product of a specific, dedicated and expensive program with only a handful of participants. Helldivers are just young, hot-blooded individuals who volunteer from within the SEAF forces, and, if they survive more than 2 seconds on their downright suicidal Special Ops missions, are damn good at what they do. And given the base SEAF is massive, likely encompassing every aspect of Super Earth life, there's always fresh blood for the Helldivers and the SEAF in general. 5. The success of the Helldivers and SES implies a strategic flexibility beyond that of the UNSC's, meaning they can fight a galactic war in a nimbler and more adaptive manner, which is the main weakness of the Covenant. 6. The difference in morale and war manpower between UNSC and SEAF is incomparable. The whole empire is an army, and one willing to die for Super Earth. This is how they contended with 3 separate invasions by the Cyborgs, Illuminate and Terminids. In fact, given that Super Earth beat Covenant-Lite (the Illuminate) whilst fighting 2 other civilisations 100 years ago, I'd say they're equipped to fight the Covenant.
I think you need to research the sheer scale of the Covenant. They make the illiminate look like a small invasion fleet. The Flood is also significantly more deadlier then the Terminids and the Forerunners and far superior then the bots in every way, they literally have galaxy wide super weapons.
@@phatdog Fighting a 3 war front against 3 completely different opponents. 1 massive rebellion leading to death machine human hybrids than would cut a covvie in half very painfully, 1 peaceloving hyperadvanced race of hyperintelligent beings, and 1 lot of intelligent bugs that HAD star to star capability. This was 100 years ago and Super Earth fought every one of them, AND WON with arguably, less superior tech now. The covenant have the numbers, but they aren't completely fanatic nor completely perfect in speed of most aspects. The flood are pretty easily countered thanks to this thing called helmets. Helldivers have access to Corrosive Gas which will ERADICATE spores. Helldivers can deploy anywhere on a planet's surface in no time at all and can hot drop into a hive. They can complete suicide missions with 24 or less divers. The Flood are formidable, but Super Earth thrives in being the "underdog"
@@glazredfield9489first, how do you know that corrosive gas will counter the flood, it’s basically big bug spray. Second, the flood also have infection forms which will bypass the armor of anyone, even Spartans. Third, if a helldivers comes into the ship with contaminated armor, then the spores will infect at least one person on the ship, and yes, there can be cleaning of the armor before a helldiver re-enters a ship but let’s be honest, at least one person out of the millions in the SEAF will be ignorant and let it happen, which will result in infighting, and then it is just high charity all over again. Not to mention flood dispersal pods which can be a sort of countermeasure to the helldivers. Not to mention the gravemind can be formed in not too long of a time, and if the infestation gets to that point, super earth better pray to the Statue of Liberty because they are not getting out of that. Not to mension that pressure plus the covenant will decimate the SEAF’s morale, leading to a victory for the flood.
also your wrong about the Helldiver is likely approaching being comparable to a Spartan in capability depends heck helldivers not close to spartains 3. they close to odst but even not fully close odst still 10x better in everyway because train for it so think helldivers which are the elite were trained and get gun and instant into war... yah... spartains make odst look like toys... and 3s... 2s.. make all spartains look toys... spartains close warhammer super solider and should say alot example mastercheif is not fastest,strongest,more skill etc spartain 2 but the luckest but being spartain 2 mc for example (Can deadlift at least 3 times his own body weight, and deadlifted 500 kilograms as a test. Kicked a man wearing an exoskeleton comparable in mass to Mjolnir armor 8 meters away) | Class 10 with MJOLNIR armor and keep in mind 3x there body weight and hes with his armor is around a 1 ton and for example class 10 is The weight of an adult elephant. Casually flips overturned 3 ton Warthog jeeps single-handedly. One Spartan moved a large stone monolith while also fighting back the pain of losing half of his left arm lol and his durablity (Renders him virtuously impervious to all UNSC and Covenant infantry weapons, this includes Spartan Lasers, Wraith Mortars, and Scarab beam), at least Small City level with Bubble Shield (Repels all projectiles and nearly all explosions outside the bubble shield. Withstood a several Megaton Nuclear explosion) and striking strength Wall level (A 14-year old John accidentally pummeled several ODSTs to death without even realizing it and launched one of them 30 feet with a few punches) and keep mind again odst make helldivers look childplay helldivers but train.. like special forces Is also comparable to Holly Tanaka, who effortlessly smashed through rock this big with a Spartan charge) i cant find the picture but this pictur vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FanofRPGs/Spartan_Ramming_Strength and can (Comparable to Cal-141, who deadlifted 5 tonnes Superhuman movement speed (Ran half a kilometer in 17 seconds; nearly 106 kilometers per hour, but tore his Achilles tendon doing it) with Subsonic combat speed (Can react to stun rounds) | Superhuman movement speed (Should be faster than before), higher with Speed Amps, with Supersonic combat speed (Can react to bullets and Covenant plasma projectiles. Has barely dodged handgun fire at point-blank range. Viewed combat with the ODST's in slow motion) higher with Cortana (With her help, he reacted to a projectile he'd be unable to normally)... yep... sorry these spartain 2 helldiver dont comapire and spartains 3 like half that.. only execption spartain 3 who close to spartain 2 and noble 6.. and close mc both hyper leathal vector and few things , Can see Invisible beings and X-Ray/Thermographic Vision with Promethean Vision so alot more to spartains then think... im sorry helldivers very good sci fire... when comes halo.. halo outclass most helldiverse verse tect,power name it all.. but still be pretty good but halo is just that and dont me started ai... any of ai break the helldiverse verse into nothingless.. ai like cortna hack all of super earth forces,and robots.. at same time without even trying... that power ai... im sorry nah.
The elite piloting the wraith watching the sky as a targeting laser lines up directly on its center mass(its about to be shot with a hunk of tungsten flying mock 7 from orbit)
In the Halo Universe, the biggest reason as to why humanity kept losing was because of their inability to maintain space superiority. They only won due to the anger of a man in a green suit of armor and his blue vtuber model (accurate, but I'm making a joke here too). Given the unknown amount of SES Cruisers and every Super Destroyer being essentially the equivalent of the UNSC's Halberd-class destroyers or possibly some lower class UNSC cruisers such as an unmodified Halcyon-class (do some lore digging and compare it to the super destroyer), it would be unlikely that SEAF would be able to maintain space superiority. High Charity, the fleet that destroyed Reach, and the fleet around the unyielding heirophant could be estimated to be over 2000 ships and that's of the higher tier Covenant cruisers. So assuming the covenant have space superiority over a planet but decide not to glass it (such as their is a special forerunner artifact on the planet), the planet is essentially blocked off from the rest of Humanity. Helldivers would have no strategems available to call in and would only bring to the fight what they could transport on Eagle's (assuming they aren't tasked with air superiority which is mostly an irrelevant factor when space superiority is a far more determinate outcome of Sci fi conflicts), pelicans, and ground assets leaving them without deployable turrets, call in weapons, and orbital strategems. Meanwhile the covenant have full access to their orbital support with some aerial assets available since the SEAF air force would contest the skies, the Helldivers and SEAF on a single planet would be able to out up a hell of a fight before losing. Ultimately, when it comes to a planetary invasion, the space battle would essentially be an overwhelming victory for the Covenant while the every planetfall operation would result in pyrrhic victories for the Covenant. Should this war fight all the way to Super Earth, I do believe that the covenant would ultimately succeed, but would take tons of time to economically, and militarily recover from this conflict leaving them perfectly vulnerable to other factions such as the illuminate. EDIT: doing some research of my own and it appears that Super Destroyers are far weaker than a UNSC Halberd and unmodified Halcyon. Moreover when comparing the numbers and observations they cannot even stand toe to toe against a UNSC Paris class as seen in my 2nd comment below.
It sucks that they don't elaborate on the liberty class cruisers in the Helldivers' verse but it's hard to say the covenant would outright when because "big ships". They state that every orbital attack the super destroyer has but stronger plus FTL capabilities. If they are purely focusing on space battles you could argue that if they get a foothold on a planet they could setup orbital guns like the Helldivers did for that one major order (i forget which one). The liberty cruisers are faster than the covanent ships and have weapons that can take down their shielding which the UNSC had trouble with so it's hard to say super earth gets beat in space outright
@@Tengu-Atlas I can agree with the FTL, but offensively and defensively, i do not believe the SEAF navy can survive unless the Liberty-class cruisers are more impressive than General Brasch and his incredible service record. In Halo, one of the first space battles was between a UNSC Paris-class frigate and a CRS-class Covenant light cruiser. The Paris boasts 60cm of Titanium-A armor (Closest known IRL permutation is Titanium-50), with a MAC gun which can launch 600 ton depleted uranium rounds at velocities faster than a 380mm round from a Super Destroyer and is also armed with 3 shiva class nukes. Although no direct numbers for Shiva's are stated, its sister class, the Havok, is a relatively newer and improved tactical nuke with a yield of 30 megatons (30,000,000 tons of TNT) so for the sake of this argument, I am going to say that Shiva's have a yield of 15 megatons (15,000,000 tons of TNT) (For reference, the Tsar Bomba was the biggest IRL nuke detonated at 50 megatons which is 50,000,000 tons of TNT). The CRS was hit with 2 MAC rounds which weakened its shields and was still hit by a shiva and didn't die. The Paris was hit with a handfull of plasma torpedos which heavily damaged the Paris with crew damage reports stating 1 torpedo can burn through 56cm of Titanium A armor. The Paris was designed for combat against human insurrectionists so is fairly durable against kinetic weaponry, but incredibly weak against plasma weaponry. A SEAF Super Destroyer (referred to as SD from here on out) has the dimensions of 170x80 meters not counting height and carries hellbombs which are the most destructive explosive armament aboard an SD. Upon visual comparisons with IRL nuclear tests and in-game hellbombs, hellbombs appear to have an explosive yield of 1.5 kilotons (1,500 tons of TNT). For reference, one of the nukes used in WW2 had a yield of 15 kilotons (15,000 tons of TNT). The average height of a human being is 1.7 meters tall and a hellbomb appears to be 1 meter tall compared to a human and about 0.5 meters wide when comparing with Helldiver player models. Doing some math, you can fit around 330 hellbombs (1 hellbomb per 1 meters length = 170 hellbombs, 1 hellbomb per 0.5 meters width = 160 hellbombs, 170+160=330; Side note, this number makes no sense since you need to account for open space in the hanger, bridge, armories, hellpod storage, helldiver cryo pods, ammo storage for 380's, 120's, 500kgs, 50 Cals, Rockets, Mechs, etc... but we'll use this value for the argument) in one SD. 330 hellbombs when exploded at the same place at the same time would have a yield of 330 kilotons (330,000 tons of TNT) which is significantly less than a shiva class tactical nuke. Now I've already made the comparison for the 380mm cannon as the MAC is, numbers wise, far superior than the 380 so we can talk about the laser cannon and the railcannon. The railcannon despite being able to fire a round at a high velocity, it can only one-shot Bile Titans, Hulks, tanks, and anything smaller. We are talking about naval combat here against a ship that can survive a 15 megaton explosion so unless the railcannon was converted into a minigun and fired a denser round at a higher velocity, it won't make any meaningful damage against a single CRS. As for the Orbital laser gun, comparing it to covenant glassing which can burn hotter and wider than the orbital laser, it is considerably weaker than covenant armaments, but is one of the best bets against covenant shield technology assuming an SD can stay alive for long enough to deplete a shield that can withstand a 15 megaton explosion. Now in terms of an SD's armor, it can't survive a single round from an automaton surface-to-orbit gun (as seen when orbiting a hostile automaton planet). The orbital guns they use appear to fire a round that is visually similar to a 380mm round (you can climb on top of the guns in the "destroy orbital cannon" missions and see the round used). Although no density, mass, volume, velocity, material, or overall energy values are given, it does have enough energy to leave the atmosphere of a planet and still be able to one-shot an SD. Not to mention the lack of energy shielding SD's have. And of course due to a relatively large lack of lore in the HD2 universe, there are unknown variables when it comes to the armor material and density used on SDs. With SD's being unable to survive what appears to be a 380mm round fired at a velocity faster than a planet's escape velocity and doesn't even have enough explosive energy to even bother the CRS's energy shields, the entire fleet of SEAF SD's seems unable to stand against a single covenant fleet. For any chance of the SEAF Navy to survive a naval engagement with the covenant, as I said in the beginning of this comment, those Liberty-class cruisers need to be more impressive than General Brasch himself to stand any chance against a CRS-class light cruiser. Most of my information comes from Halopedia, the official wiki for Halo lore, IRL nuclear tests post WW2, and visual observations made in Helldivers 2 on both the bug and bot front.
Super Earth loves to “burrow” tech and reverse engineer them, take out a covenant ship and they’ll make it 10x better and would mass produce then enough that would even make 40k manifactorum blush
Yeah, no. Helldivers can barely harness illuminate technology. They still don't even know how it works. That and the fact that the imperium is much bigger than super earth. The illuminate and covenant are undeniably more advanced.
I would like to point out 2 things.1) the super destroyers purpose is low orbit ordinance delivery so it would not fight "battle cruiser" kind of ships and 2) knowing super earth the black liquid(same as the one in meridia) would be used in sone kind of torpedo to make energy shields stop working
I feel like it's worth mentioning that the Automatons also have their own spacefaring Navy. Outside of their first Out-Of-Nowhere surprise attack, their Navy hasn't made significant progress towards Super Earth, often times being held back and slowly losing ground to SEAF and Helldiver operations As for the Super Destroyer, I personally think that a full Laser Strike from the Destroyer's Laser Cannon could punch a hole in the Covenant's shields, thus allowing them to damage the Covenant Ships with their other weapons They could also just, like, launch pre-armed Hellbombs at the Covenant
If the Covenant were to invade Super Earth, or any of the other planets under SEAF control, I think they would be dealing with a nightmare. Helldivers are literally fearless. They think they never die. They're expendable, yes but there are records of Super Helldive missions against the Automatons being completed with 0% casualties. If 1 to 4 Helldivers can do that, imagine what more divers like that could do to a Covenant army on the ground. As for their ordnance, they have the opportunity to be equipped with weapons far more devastating and convenient than the Covenant and the UNSC. Each of them can carry more firepower than any of the Covenant ground units. They have the capacity to be equipped with the tools to fight the deadliest vehicles head-on and still come out on top. One single Helldiver with a Heavy machine gun (which is essentially just a full auto AMR) and a shield pack can wipe out a squad of elites before he goes down. It's crazy what these brainwashed maniacs are capable of. Now, in space, there's no doubt that the Covenant would probably eradicate their ships. The only way they would secure their victory against the SEAF is to wipe out their navy first. The super destroyers carry and nurture the firepower that the Helldivers need to carry out and complete their missions, so if they don't have that, they will have to rely on what they have left on the planet. Like I said before though, Helldivers have ground superiority big time. The Covenant will be forced to spend a lot of resources on a ground war if they wish to parttake in one against the SEAF. At that point they would have to recover once they do take over a planet. The longer they take to do that, the larger the SEAF's retaliatory force will be.
Considering helldivers can get shot in the chest by a tank shell and survive and fight at 100% effectiveness with a simple stim they could definitely tango with some covenant troops Not to mention every helldiver could get there own personal shield generator something the unsc only gave out to a few select units and Spartans I would say helldivers are between odst’s and Spartans in terms of lethality
It’s worth mentioning that the Super Destroyers that the Helldivers utilise are designed almost entirely for ground support, (as emphasised by all its weapons on its underbelly). It’s also worth mentioning that the Super Destroyer we see in game is reserved exclusively for the Helldivers. The actual naval power would come from the SEAF. Although there isn’t much information regarding them, it’s safe to assume that a frontline has the most action, (if you look on the horizon of some Helldiver missions you can see massive fires indicating the actual frontline). Point in being that the Covenant would be going against a foe which is equally if not more fanatic, (don’t put me in a freedom camp), that has the tools required to defeat the Covenant or at put them in a stalemate. Unlike the UNSC which did not have that Libertea… get it? Funny joke? Right guys?
Honestly, outnumbering Covenant Cruisers with smaller, offensive-minded Destroyers is probably a great idea. Destroyer laser weapons on mass would be ideal for taking down Covenant shield technology, and Super Earth could theoretically create ship-grade plasma weaponry for later stages of the war. Assuming the Covenant have better FTL technology, a Super Earth fleet could likely afford to be jumped, lose a few destroyers, and then retaliate. As long as Super Earth's propaganda machine can withstand the loss of multiple destroyers per cruiser engagement, they're probably better equipped than the UNSC is. Super Earth could afford the cruel cost of void warfare better than the UNSC. Amusingly on the ground, Super Earth forces have readier access to anti-shield technology in the form of their own plasma and laser weapons. What super earth lacks in spartan-grade super soldiers, it probably makes up for with technological flexibility and a more powerful propaganda machine that is even more unified than the covenant's theocracy. TL;DR: SEAF has a more flexible and robust wartime economy and mindset than the UNSC.
One more thing to add: Essentially, the UNSC lost the conventional war against the Covenant. So "definitely better than the UNSC" doesn't necessarily mean Super Earth wins. I assume we're taking the muguffin's out of the equation: The Halo arrays, the Ark, the Flood, etc. The Covenant was defeated more by a comedy of errors, civil war, forerunner technology, and getting High Charity eaten by the Flood.
I would like to add here, Super Earth's FTL Technology is far superior to the Covenant's, like, infinitely superior, besides, Super Destroyers are not even combat ships, Super Earth has ships specially designated for combat that should come in numbers equally large or even larger than the Super Destroyers
Super earth's FTL is instantaneous. It pretty much can't be any faster than that. Any planet Covenant attacks, super earth will respond extremely quickly.
@vineveer4358 another things is super destroyers could definitely support in naval combat if needed but that's not their job. Notice how in game when fighting the Automatons there is never a ship in sight shooting Super destroyers down. The Helldivers Navy clears what airspace so that the Helldivers can work. If the airspace wasn't clear it's safe to say that the Helldivers wouldn't be fighting there in the first place. The Seaf is the Hammer while the Helldivers are the scapel as they have described
The biggest difference is the FTL technology. Helldiver universe has an instant FTL jump compared to wormhole type in halo universe. So yeah if the laser canon of the super destroyer CAN damage the shield, then it would be random jump onto the covenant ship following with helldivers drops.
I could totally imagine an super destroyer FTL jumping inside a Covenant ship while being filled with hellbombs to the brim. Tech is more expensive than helldivers, but still, just consider the amount of equipment left on a planet after every mission. Losing one of the smallest available ships to a Covenant ship is a no brainer, especially for these super fanatics.
The Helldivers would be able to shred vehicles, support weapons like the R.R., railgun, autocannon, etc. can bust open a hulk just fine. The R.R. can 2 hit a factory strider too. Edit: R.R. (Recoiless Rifle) could delete a mechanized bile titan thing.
Scarabs are a bit bigger than a factory strider, and slightly better armed. They often carry troops with them like a giant IFV, so not unlike the strider. That being said, a squad of helldivers should still be able to bring one down. Even if it can survive a few recoilless rifle rounds and 500kg bomb hits, I doubt it'd survive a 380mm barrage.
I'm pretty sure one Liberty-class cruiser is as expensive as one Helldiver operation. This is pretty much a confirmation that they are similar in numbers. Also, they are way more specialised for space warfare, using lasers and maybe fighters. Considering the fact that Super Earth has access to way more resources and has a gigantic industry compared to the UNSC, while equipping their forces with energy weapons and advanced navigational technology, I say the Covenant is facing an actual threat. The never ending waves of the SEAF, the fast response time from the side of Super Earth and the heavy use of combined arms would probably overwhelm them.
Helldiver's using fire weapons And gas weapons would be funny. Watching grunts running around on fire or gassed covenant troops walking around randomly, blind firing at random. In the halo universe. The grunts and smaller troops can be spooked or scared easy.The helldivers could dark fluid planets or use bug spores against the covenant. There's nothing the covenant could do to stop bug spores from traveling in space and spreading from planet to planet.yes they could glass a planet once the bug spores start making outbreaks of bugs. Also the bugs and bots will be attacking them also. Also the helldiver's are starting to make a space station. So we gotta consider that.
If helldivers had to deal with the covenant theyll probably just outfit their guns and armor to... you know... beat them... cause they have more than enoght ways of kicking their ass
Okay the covenant as much as I love halo are boned againts super earth because we know how this goes it’s called the first galatic war. The covenant had their hands full with Odsts and Spartans as limited as they were helldivers especially the fact 90% of all engagements end in helldivers accomplishing the mission would overwhelm any covenant strategy. Furthermore super earth has had a century to prepare for a round two with the squids or the illuminate. Arguably even more advanced than the covenant more leaning towards forunner level. Yet were wiped off the face of the galaxy wil super earth faught two other factions. Super earth has two legendary soilders in general Brasch ,and John helldiver who rival the master chief ,the numbers in space and on the ground, the experience fighting multiple factions, as well as technology to turn planets into black holes, create sector missile defense systems, and bio warfare that can stop invasions of solar systems. It’s just one is a semi realistic stylized stained glass empire, the other is a comically over powered war machine. I can’t say super earth isn’t coming out on top
You kinda forget... Heldivers 2 already beat our existing enemies by a ratio of 1 - 40... and every time is 4 Helldiver vs a regiment size of enemy force...
Every planet the helldivers fight on has total Super Earth space superiority before helldivers even get there. I think that says something about how effective their ships of the line are.
Super Earth would immediately enslave the covenant engineers in the most brutal and inhumane way possible. Every piece of covenant technology they could force them to create would be shipped straight off an assembly line and onto super destroyers. Any recoverable tech and especially those fancy vehicles would be reverse engineered by the end of the year. The Helldivers already have an ungodly amount of fire support even without co-opting covenant tech, but stealing designs like energy swords, shields, or higher power plasma weaponry would make the covenant just another faction on the galactic map.
2:25 what? 25ml? Lol i think we hit that number of dead helldivers in the first week❤😂 super earth has 100 yrs of frozen helldivers on all 200+ planets of they'r domain so numbers are really off here, plus we don't really know about birth rate of both parties, but 25ml is super low.
On the ground, I give it to Helldivers for how closely they work with the Super Destroyers. Plasma and Laser weapons are readily available, so they could deal with shields fairly well. But in terms of pure Naval power and military command, Covenant all the way. And I think that's the deciding factor given how it went for the UNSC. Still, none of this matters if General Brasch and John Helldiver are on the field.
Honestly Super Earth would throw Helldivers at any problem they encounter and with sheer amount of them problem would be probably solved. In this moment there's already 2.3 bilion Helldivers dead just in the Second Galactic War (and nearly 100bilion of their enemies). Super Earth must have insane resources. Also the ability to FTL jump into any place in the galaxy in an instant is just op.
To be fair, helldiver's Super destroyer are just for fire support as most if not all of their weapons are for ground engagement, i dont think we've seen propper S.E.A.F. warships yet My headcanon is that Super Earth's navy gets space superiority on a planet and then the helldivers join in to dive instead of having super destroyers fight in space battles
You talk about jamming signals, which has a point, but there are on-ground callin's like the SEAF artilery that can be used without connection to a Destroyer. Plus it depends on how strong the jamming may be. Having pinpoint calls thanks to stratagems allows for a lot of jamming being possibly useless, outside of close proximity to a jammer as we see with the automotons.
lets say they do decide to glass a planet in HD2 the problem is when they try they will have to deal with surface to orbit anti ship guns and given the fact the illuminate most likely had shielding similar to the covenant its no stretch to think they could down their ships.
I doubt any orbital weapon the they have can stop a battlecruiser, let alone an Assault Carrier. These are the ships that can withstand a 30 megaton nule without any problems.
Hard to take the covenants odds seriously when a group of four helldivers can fry dozens of scarab sized threats in a single mission and can freely deploy shield packs capable of blocking tank shells as well as wear armour heavy enough to eat direct missile strikes, even in space all they need to do is turn the ship sideways and fire the hellpods and barrages for boarding parties as up and down is a dead concept in the void, then the ship can disappear with their much faster more reliable ftl while the squad ransacks the insides of the ship like the blood soaked lunatic zealots they are, then stacking on the having the numbers to fight a three pronged war of attrition against cyborgs literal swarms of man sized bugs and an outer galactic threat with teleportation shields mind controlling nanites and world consuming wmds. And that is completely dismissing the concept of the rest of seaf as we know little of their true scale and ability
I imagine a mission boarding Covenant ship will be overloading the Anti matter reactor with extraction not being that important in their strategy planning.
@@スフィアマスター I’m sure their will be an extraction plan, probably high jacking a drop ship of some form, but it would be a hell of a ride getting out with no guarantees, h divers me be ultimately expendable but super earth isn’t the unsc, they will have a plan to get them back if they can manage to get out fast enough
Helldivers 2 just doesnt show the true potential of Super Earth's fleet. Its stated 1 Helldiver deployement costs more than a "Liberty class cruiser" we dont know what is a cruiser in the universe. We do know that the DSS will be able to destroy a small moon with its armament and that a destroyer can level a whole moon itself because its stated as so by one of the crew. My point is this, Super Destroyers, the only ship you see in the game as of right now, is a ground combat support ship meant for special forces aka Helldivers. We dont know what their space superiority vessels look like.
[This is just me Lore dumping, not disagreeing or agreeing to the video] Helldivers are the Elites of the SEAF, Its entirely possible that (if well-equipped) the SEAF Army would hold the line for a little bit, even if just enough to wait for the Helldivers to arrive. Super Earth culture is also SUPER militarized, to the point 10 year olds are given a bolt-action rifle and expected to be proficient with it. I do believe that modified Super destroyers could deal a little damage to Covenant ships, if they can make energy shields big enough to cover the Destroyer and if they used the Orbital Laser as a Turret Battery since it would eat through the Covenant shieldings. [Still think the Humans would need a 3-1 numerical advantage though which would be possible on the planets closer to super earth]
@staladus It seems to me like the Helldivers corps has been decimated. They used to be able to field 600,000 Helldivers simultaneously. Now they can only field like 60,000.
Humanity by the end of the Himan-Covenant war likely losts tens of billions of people. Reach had a death toll of between 650 million to over a billion deaths.
I think you're only mentioning the equipment on HD2 and forgetting the equipment vehicles used in HD1 because they all have counters, such as Tanks, two APC variations and motorcycles and we even had leaked vehicles in HD2, not to mention fortifications and while we don't see it some ships may have shielding
Helldivers seem very reliant on orbital supremacy, if they can get that then yes. Helldivers wield more power than even the most experience Spartan, but have a fraction of the lifespan.
@dotmadhack life expectancy is different than life span, the life span of a gunner in Vietnam is about like 2 seconds 💀. So not only do Helldivers face worse odds than that but they have double the life expectancy than the U.S did in Vietnam
I actually agree for the most part, however, there is also the chance that super earth either reverse engineers or just steals covenant weaponry (don't know much about covenant weaponry so feel free to tell me if there is something wrong) I also think it would have a new type of effect when your in covenant space or if the covenant are invading, (please check Bad Timing - Helldivers 2 to see what the effects would be) it would probably be another thing like the automatons, helldivers push them out the first time, they come back with greater force and then it becomes an absolute clusterfuck, and since the illuminate aren't here yet there is also that, that the helldivers must worry about to when they come back, so it would be a war on 4 fronts, so not great, but also the illuminate, covenant, automatons, and terminids would be fighting each other so there is that we must take into account, so probably just a stalemate if I am to be honest.
@belbekstrullour4996 as cool as the 4 front thing is i believe this is a hypothetical 1v1 covenant vs super earth not counting the other factions on either side. Also gotta count the whole seaf navy as helldiver super destroyers don't engage in navy combat at all. Plus because of their FTL capabilities they can instantly spawn over whoever ot whatever they want to destroy
About the whole stealing tech stuff, the covenant are very well versed in that. The covenant only had one jackal shield be reverse engineered in the human covenant war. Once the covenant see how good the FTL drives are, I’m sure they’d snag some for themselves, the only reason they never did in the human covenant war was because they didn’t have to, as they had better tech than the humans, which makes the covenant verses super earth much more contested. Not to mention their plasma cannons and glassing beams thst can put rounds clean into super earth cruisers and destroyers. And not to mention that the covenant’s elite forces can eliminate a whole spartan team, much more trained and equipped compared to the helldivers. So I’m personally going to say that this is much more nuanced than people may think
I think Super Earth would handle the covenant much better than the UNSC simply because they have the numbers and are already used to fighting galactic spanning wars with aliens where as the UNSC was already crippled from internal strife and was in no state to fight the covenant when they arrived
I didn't consider this, but then we're facing off two effectively infinite armies. I still think the covenant would have a long term advantage since they'll be attacking and most of their major facilities are space based not planetside
@@somestupidsongbird8619wdym? So what if they’re not planet based. The unsc were gonna launch troopers at a ship. Super earth can make a few modifications and HDers are going right on those things.
There's almost no way to beat super earth in a drawn out battle lol. That's literally how super earth wins. They just throw shit at the enemy until they win because they have the resources to do so.
Don’t forget how fast super earth can reverse engineer enemy resources as well and a lot of what covenant use aren’t even that advanced for super earth as well Shielding already exist and mass produce Plasma and energy base weapon are also a staple for super earth. A perk of being a live service game if that we always get a new toy so new tech as time go by hope Halo find their own footing again soon love the original trilogy.
I think Helldivers as a whole, aren't quite as strong as the strongest units that Earth can put out in the Halo universe. MJOLNIR is just top dog; super soldiers, in super soldier armor, primed and raised and trained and geared to fight for the future of an entire planet and all of its people. SPARTANs are, at least at the top level, legendary... But so legendary that they had problems, took a long time to create, and eventually had to be curved out. Now future generations of the armor and the soldier types brought that back around a bit, but truth be told Earth was always on the losing end, and as many sources have stated time and again, that's pretty much including roughly equal footing on the ground. In space combat, the Covenant just wins. SPARTANs are not expendable, but as a corollary to that, they also just don't die... often. At first. I mean, as a rule, they're not supposed to... Look leave me alone okay, mistakes were made. With all that said. With all that said, Helldivers get the job done. You're looking at an elite fighting force similarly trained and conditioned and raised and brainwashed to fighting, but if anything more zealously, more fervently. Willing yes, but also in many cases expecting to die. So you have two things to consider; first, a ground force many many many times what Earth in the Halo universe had on offer, the SEAF is a massive force full of millions of people, on dozens of planets if not more across a small galaxy of stars and planets and systems. The game can't really show you the full breadth of this, and from a gameplay perspective most of what will ever see is the inside of one ship and four people getting shot out of it. But to believe that's all there is would be a mistake. Super Earth is a colossal mega force, a massive unknowable almost Lovecraftian society full of countless billions of people with untold resources. This is a primarily militaristic group of people somewhere between what halo could bring to the table, and what you would find on the far end of the human scale and something like Warhammer 40,000. Exactly how many, we can't say, but even these loose numbers you talk about in the video, exactly how many people are playing the game for now and the resources they have access to, you're looking at what would be the equivalent of trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars spent on individual cruisers, space capable craft, ground capable assault vehicles, hundreds of weapons, armor systems, scientific developments and advancements, across the board research and more, all on a ready as needed delivery system fired via payload from space. Make no mistake, there is a war, but there was another war before this one and these games go out of their way to make you not quite sure that humanity is actually under any kind of threat. The bugs and bots in both fights so far seem to be mostly created by us, to use or exploit or as the product of using a exploiting other things, and while that can't be said of the illuminate, that faction is going to be the closest we have to a Covenant in the game. And they already lost once. I think the raw number of forces Super Earth can bring to bear makes them far out class the Covenant on the ground fight, but without numbers or designs are overall capabilities on what the larger SEAF forces can do and what spaceships they will bring to the fight, it's difficult to say exactly how effective they would be overall, much less in space. But if it helps, keep in mind that the Super Earth forces do have access to energy weapons. And you also have to imagine a system where they could somehow dive onto enemy ships. I'm not saying this would happen or that it's a guaranteed win, but you know if there is any way past big Covenant ship shields, the first thing that's super Earth is going to try sending under that is a bunch of hellpods, and personally whichever side wins I am just hoping that Sony gives up the ghosts one of these days, and let's the game get on to Xbox so we can actually have that crossover happen.
Here are my two cents: Super Earth would decimate the covenant, but only if it were a matter of survival. Super Earth is more than capable of single-handedly wiping out both the Automatons and Terminids; no Helldivers needed. The shipmaster herself says that each super destroyer carries enough ordinance to level a small moon. So if the SEAF Navy wanted to, they could just glass every occupied planet and be home in time for dinner. Now enter the Covenant fleet. Super Destroyers are primarily built for fire support, but they can would likely suffice for ship to ship combat as well. To take out a covenant cruiser, destroyers could use the rail cannon and orbital laser to disable the shields. From there, nuclear and conventional weapons can do the rest. Once space superiority is established, Helldivers should have no problem taking care of covenant forces on the surface. Now you may be asking why there is no swift, decisive victory over the Automotons and Termininds. It’s because when citizens are faced with existential threats, they empower their government and overlook morally questionable action, which is why the Super Earth government artificially prolongs conflict. If the SEAF ran out of bots and bugs to kill, they would need to spend more resources suppressing dissent and questioning from the public. Speaking of resources, no bugs = no cheap E-710. That, and saturating planets with nukes would render them inhospitable, which would be detrimental since Super-Earth thrives on ruthless expansionism. In short: Super Earth can win a war against the covenant if they had to, but top brass and politicians would probably prolong the fight for political and economic gain
So I have mixed feelings about Halo being claimed as one of the best franchises of all time. I was a MEGA Halo fan. I had books, I had all the games, I had comics, I had apparel. I grew up with this series. But it DID NOT grow up with me. Halo died after Reach. Any other opinion is just WRONG. NOTHING 343 did was of any value at all. It was hogwash abysmal shit. I won't focus in on that too hard, I just wanted to state as much so I could really tear into this topic. It is stated within the Halo lore that the UNSC were hopelessly out-matched by The Covenant. Yet in spite of this, they won the Human Covenant war. A lot of fans would attribute this victory to all of the in fighting that was going on during the war effort, but that's the lowest hanging fruit in my opinion. The Spartans were the saving grace of the UNSC. They were DOMINANT in most of their showings. They could turn the tide of a fight in an instant. The UNSC never had to win any of the small battles. They only needed to win big KEY important battles. Which they did. The same could be said for the Helldivers. The devs would tell us that we play as fodder foot soldiers who are no more capable than Storm Troopers from Star Wars. But I beg to differ. On the contrary, Helldivers have been fighting Terminids, Cyborgs, & Illuminate for HUNDREDS of years. And not only did they fight all three of these factions simultaneously, but they also obliterated The Illuminate, driving them to near extinction. This video is CRITICALLY underestimating the firepower of the Helldivers. The UNSC are CHUMPS in comparison... They struggled with the full might of ONE faction (albeit that faction had multiple species within it.) Helldivers aren't struggling against THREE major factions pushing back against them. For direct comparison, The heavy armor BY ITSELF that Divers typically wear against Automaton forces can occasionally tank a cannon turret's missile. And this isn't even taking into account the explosive resistant types, OR the Shield Backpack (which can absorb a 500kg bomb detonation.) So already the Helldivers are VASTLY more durable than any standard UNSC infantry (except for Spartans.) If Spartans are the circus performers of the military, then Helldivers are the slower moving juggernauts. The best of them (myself included) bring HEAVY experimental tech onto the battlefield which could wreak havoc on Covenant forces. Take the "Arc Thrower" for example... This thing fires LIGHTNING at its targets. This projectile is so nasty, in can briefly shutdown your central nervous system and paralyze you. It commonly freezes heavy Automaton Hulks in place, while also stun locking Terminid Behemoth Chargers. While it may not 1 shot anything in the Covenant sporting an Energy Shield, it's DEFINITELY tearing through it with that first shot, & then doing MASSIVE damage with the 2nd. And let's be real here.... The ArcThrower is pretty slept on, because in the words of the community; "There are better tools that do its job faster." And that is 100% true. The Spear is another very heavy weapon which would eliminate ALL of the Covenant vehicles on the board (except for the Scarab) in likely ONE SHOT. There's no way anyone can walk into this debate and say; "Oh the Covenant have an obvious vehicular advantage." LOL noooooo they really don't. The Helldivers have so many tools to absolutely MELT these vehicles, and The Covenant have nothing to counter that! Let me remind skeptics ONE MORE TIME.... Helldivers have been fighting with Illuminate for HUNDREDS of years, and they WON! The Illuminate have energy shields comparable to The Covenant, & where are they now? Hmm? It also states in "Halo; The Fall of Reach" that orbital Railcannons were very effective against Covenant cruisers. And which weapon just so happens to be a staple of the Helldivers arsenal again? OH THAT'S RIGHT, THE ORBITAL RAILCANNON! The Helldivers also have portable Railgun rifles. So in what half functioning brain IQ universe do the Covenant actually stand a chance? Helldivers are ALSO very good at reverse engineering weaponry that they find. Hence why they have so much experimental weaponry like the Plas 1 Scorcher, The Scythe, The Dagger, or The Laser Cannon. They can deploy sentries, land mines, mechs, vehicles, all in a matter of SECONDS. A ground battle IS NOT EVEN CLOSE (((OBJECTIVELY.))) The only hope The Covenant has is in space. I would also argue that even that is very very debatable. The Covenant glass planets......... CUTE..... The Helldivers IMPLODE THEM and convert them into black holes! And this is all pre-dating the construction of the TCS, which will likely quadruple the firepower of the current arsenal. But all be generous here and say that The Covenant could likely stalemate Super Earth in space combat, but on the ground.............. NOT A CHANCE! It's just no shot! Everyone seems to forget how whole armies of the UNSC were deployed to counter The Covenant. Some of the squads going in were comprised of all Spartans. Helldivers only ever deploy with a squad of 4, and again for the final time...... THEY FOUGHT THREE FACTIONS FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS AND WON!!! As powerful as The Covenant are...... I'm sorry Halo fans (as a Halo fan, I have to tell you...) The Covenant takes the L on this one.
@@MurakumoVance Also don't forget the DSS, The Democratic Space Station. Armed with thousands of Orbital Railcannons and Fitted with thousands of Eagle Aircraft!
Super earth would fucking steamroll the covenants it’s not even a question. Helldivers alone would solo them and that’s only their special forces. And there’s billions of them.
btw you are counting only the super destroyer and the helldivers but Super earth has wayy more manpower considering the SEAF aswell and even bigger ships and with even more firepowers then a super destroyer, Super destroyers are buil for fire support not naval combat
i think super earth would likely adapt quickly to the air superiority problem. to be fair, the helldivers, are really only the shocktroops of superearth, their navy, and military is unknown, so this might be a very equal footting war. i would imagine, that their navy and army are larger than the helldivers corp.
General Brasch defeated an entire covenant fleet with a peacemaker. Then he pulled the trigger
Facts
And his trusty Senator
Nice joke, but Master Chief achieved more.
Don't forget Sergeant Major Avery Johnson. He only had two sticks and a rock. And he had to share the rock.
this is your local Truth Enforcer and it is Safe to say that this comment has been approved by the ministry of truth
Friendly reminder that Helldivers are only a VERY small part of the larger SEAF
Helldivers are special forces essentially, their primary job is to disrupt enemy operations and supply lines, while SEAF regular forces grind down the enemy.
The combination of Helldiver asset and capability denial and SEAF regular forces conventional warfare slowly but surely grinds down their enemies into dust one planet at a time.
Frindly rimindir thit hilldivirs iri inly i viry smill pirt if the larger siif
We still win 😎
@@patofeliz2862 Mmmmmno.... No you dont....
@@Keemperor40K Until you realise even the UNSC won on the ground....
Last i checked the UNSC still got their teeth kicked in.
Literally the glitched shield pack that blocked ALL melee attacks a couple weeks ago was confirmed as canon and part of “general brasch’s personal stash”
I forgot this cuz it was so stupid but it's true lol
that's canon now so GG to other sci fi factions. lol.
Literally couldn't protect against a ship bound plasma lance or glassing beam
@The_Ragequit_Cannon Proof? Cause from what I've seen those shield packs could defend against anything
@@sparkls4492 How about the fact that a literal cannon that both explodes and burns/melts targets, that is found on a ship many times bigger than even the biggest enemy we currently have in the game?
Today, there are 200 million helldivers KIA in Jin Xi sector ALONE. Thats one TERMINID sector. There is Hydra and Lacalle Sectors, which both have about 320 million Helldiver casualties alone. And thats just 3 sectors.
Malevelon Creek had 170 million casualties
There are much more helldivers on standby than just 400 million
Good lord imagine how big the Federal Army proper is! They’d potentially drown the bloody Imperial Guard from Warhammer 40k!
pretty sure the total death count is well past 2 billion
but yes this is a great point
Yup the numbers are far higher
And then we look at the enemy kia. As many divers as we've lost its still nearly 100 to 1 lose ratio.
BTW, Helldivers have even more easier access to plasma weaponry than the UNSC. Even energy shields are not problem for Helldivers in terms of mass producing.
agreed (a random major order will let us gain access to even more plasma weaponry and shielding)
@@heerosefffinchannel5387that would actually be a fire warbond, imagine an exosuit with a laser cannon and a quasar cannon
The super earth simpage is real with this one... There there kiddo im suuuuure they would win mhm mhm mhm....
The people that can barely stop a few insects and car assembly drones..... LOL!
@@brentonherbert7775 sounds undemocratic.... Deploy the odsts.
@@brentonherbert7775 You couldn't even think of any good arguments so you preferred to go straight to treating others as if they were children, that is certainly the attitude of a child.
One thing to not overlook is a Helldiver’s religious, fanatical loyalty to Super Earth. They aren’t afraid of death, and they will fight tooth and nail obeying any order given. If one diver falls, their comrades aren’t dismayed or affected at all really. Every soldier is expendable, all for the glory that is Managed Democracy🫡
Technically the Covenant also had zealously loyal soldiers as well, but the Helldivers would still have the advantage in that category. The Covenant had civil wars like the Unggoy rebellion, and there was also animosity between some of the species (most notably Sangheli vs Jiralhanae), whereas Super Earth’s government seem to be much more efficient at maintaining morale. Only the Chaosdivers seem to pose any real threat, and even then they technically fight for the people of Super Earth if not their government.
@@JC-eo2qe The cyborg/automaton faction is a result of civil rebellions against super earth, and one common mission on bug planets is to destroy illegal broadcast towers...that bugs wouldn't be able to build or use at all. Likely there is much more dissent and civil unrest than super earth would have you believe, but they are masters of propaganda so we'll never know the truth.
Chaosdivers are just non-canon player bullshit.
What happens to this loyalty when super earth gets glassed?
@@StickmanAdam lol, merely glassed? Did you see what the Helldivers did to Meridia when it decided to stop being a tropical paradise and catered to the bugs?
@@StickmanAdam sacrificing super earth itself to save the glorious ideal of super earth seems like exactly the kind of doublethink the HD universe would be perfectly okay with.
Helldivers actually fought snipers in HD1. It was one of the illuminate units.
If a beam of nanomachines counts as sniper
@@Turinnn1 yes
Those goddamn turrets are snipers as well
@@Turinnn1 they DID have a sniper unit tho. You would see a laser targeting you off screen for a very brief moment before they fired.
@@Turinnn1yes it does, and it might be more lethal than jackals
Super Earth won a three-way war despite being outnumbered, outgunned, and outsmarted. They adapted faster than most sci-fi factions, reverse-engineering technology within weeks and using it to their advantage on a large scale. Their Helldivers' FTL capability was several times faster than the Covenant's, giving them the edge in battles. Even if the Covenant had the chance to exploit the technology, their history of rebellions and parasitic infestations would make it difficult for them to do so effectively, especially if the planet had Forerunner artifacts.
Comparing the feats of Super Earth and the Covenant, the gap is too significant. Super Earth transitioned from a nuclear wasteland to a galactic superpower in less than a century, while the Covenant, despite having overwhelming advantages, struggled to maintain control over a single galactic arm over thousands of years using second-hand technology.
"Several times faster" is an understatement. Super Earth FTL is instantaneous. It's honestly Forerunner-tier, lol. UNSC slipspace drives afaik have rates measured in "lightyears per day". It's laughable in comparison.
@@AmandaFessler yup. Super Earth would repel the forces of the USNC with ease unless SEAF is banned and can only rely on hell divers for the battle for whatever reason.
You really cant compare the the Halo enemy to the Helldivers enemies lol. You are very much underestimating the Halo lore. For example the Terminids do spread fast but the Halo Flood spread even faster, they can literally infect you via airborne particle spores. The Bots are very advance but the Forerunners make them look like child play, they literally had universe scale killing weapons lol.
The UNSC actually has better tech then Super Earth, they have better ships, better trained forces, better equipment, MUCH better vehicles. For example the mechs; The UNSC Mantis has superior Gauss chainguns, carries more ammunition, is faster, more durable and has shielding. Their fighter jets carry very similar armaments with nukes and bombing runs but their space artillery is significantly stronger, a MAC canon makes Super Earths 380 barrage and 500kg bombs look bad lol. The only thing the Hell Divers have them beat is their numbers but the UNSC did have a very LARGE military too and even with the better tech, literal super soldiers and reverse engineering Covenant weapons they still technically lost, they only survived because of the Flood and the Banish Rebellion.
Yes Super Earth has supposedly faster ships but even they cant fly thru enemy lines, the Covenant literally jumped to earth, messed it up and then left just as quick.
I don’t know if i’d say outsmarted. Super earth is ran by a super computer
@@AdamSmasher-Official Wait, really? When was THAT revealed? I thought it was an "elected" president with the political power of a king or emperor.
Short answer: Yes
Long Answer: Super Earth conquered the galaxy in a 3 front war by 2084. Helldivers would crush the covenant
To offer a few major corrections
1: Super Destroyers are not the only ship in the SEAF, they're just the only ones Helldivers use.
2: Helldivers only deploy when it's clear enough to deploy, the SEAF is the front line grunts while Helldivers are spec-ops
3: Super Earth has access to plasma and energy weapons, along with energy shield bubbles that can survive literal mini nukes
4: Super Earth is, REALLY GOOD at backwards engineering pretty much anything
5: Super Earth is really good at wars of attrition. They can basically imperial guard the covenant
6: Mech go brrt
7: Dark Fluid exists. That's just it I am yet to see the covenant defeat literal black holes
The covenant will put up a fight, but super earth is basically the inverse of the UNSC, it's humanity as the dominant species in the galaxy that has the history and capability to punch up effectively. The covenant would find themselves with just as much hell as they could potentially give. But the one thing super earth has that the covenant are not prepared for: Humanity in halo was struggling in the moral department. They had to push so much propaganda and keep the whole war secret just to lose at a manageable rate. Super Earth has an almost unbreakable moral. And moral is an invaluable tool in a war.
While i am a huge halo fan, i agree! Illuminate alone are the covenant grade enemy (in some aspects, even more advanced) and Super Earth did defeat them, terminids and cyborgs at the same time.
Not to mention that the Covenant only mostly conquered one *ARM* of the galaxy whereas Super Earth has managed to fight across the *ENTIRE* galaxy.
Would also like to point out that if the covenant get out of hand and start taking planet, super earth will just destroy its own planets instead of letting them be lost.
@@Blindstrike01 true I don't think the covenant are ready for the literal black hole
Somehow Super Earth does planet destruction better because *forbidden grape soda*
The only thing that the Covenant has better than Super Earth are the infantry units. But yeah, Covenant is most likely to lose.
Fellow Halo lover here, a couple of points.
1. I don't deny a battle with a covenant destroyer would be very difficult, but there is a way to get around the shields. A covie starship has to drop its shields to fire its cannons. So timing shots would have to be perfect.
2. The covenant don't glass every single planet, only significant ones. Even by covenant standards, glassing takes a massive amount of energy.
3. I would lightly counter the claim of ghosts being good on all terrain. Because of the height off the ground, no contact with the ground and speed, they would be less effective on the rocky and jungle planets.
It would be heavy casualties on both sides, but I ultimately think the Helldivers would win for a few reasons.
1. They do have the technology to beat the covenant.
Helldivers have little regard to their own survival or friendly fire, if it means defeating the enemy.
3. We know Super Earth is adept at reverse engineering enemy tech, and it's not as big a leap for them as it would be the UNSC. Plus the abundance of resources at the Divers' disposal would mean anything developed would rapidly reach the whole fleet.
The only way I see the covenant winning is by being fast in destroying the Divers, before they have a chance to learn and engineer any countermeasures.
imagine the covenant seeing bunch of helldivers stand back up from over-dozing the stim they carried. even the fanatic like Covenant would feel a slight fear of "zombie-like" human charging at them, bombarding high explosive / napalm along the way regard of their safety.
literally fighting Korps of KRIEG at that point.
I think that the space battles against the Covenant would be like the Cario station in Halo 2 but in reverse. The Super Destroyers would take every opportunity to fire Hellpods in an attempt to board the ship, the Helldivers look for any weak spots while engaging in gunfire with the Coventant, then assemble one or more Hellbombs. Run to the ship's bay, rescue whoever is left alive in a Pelican and repeat.
assuming the SEAF is banned for this battle then sure the Covenant might win but is all of the Super Earth forces are able to be used then the SE wins 10 times out of 10. hell divers are not the main fight force. they are special forces designed to hit key targets or break enemy lines that have halted the SEAF.
As a Halo lover, you seem to be forgetting a few key facts about the Covenant and the UNSC.
1. The UNSC were losing and never would have won if it wasnt for the Flood and Banish Rebellion during the war. In fact the UNSC never even fought the full force of the Covenant, they always only fought small portions of them at a time. The Covenant military was INSANE in numbers.
2. The Covenant will gladly glass a planet if it means an easy victory.
3. The UNSC tech is actually arguably better then the Helldivers. Their space ships are better, their super solder units are far superior, their air strikes are actually very similar but the UNSC definitely have the Divers beat in terms of heavy vehicles. For example the UNSC Mantis is better then the Divers Mechs in every way; faster, more durable with shielding, gauss chain guns are better then normal chain guns they even carry more ammunition. The UNSC vehicles are actually on par if not even better then the bots tanks. The only thing the Divers are potentially better is their weapon range of high penetration and plasma weaponry but honestly if a Spartan Laser cant turn the war for the UNSC then neither of those are gonna help the Divers lol.
4. Yes Super Earth is quick at reverse engineering but so was the UNSC, they literally reverse engineered the shields and cloaking from them and they even knew and studied the covenant weapons and vehicles and trained their soldiers to use them. Buck's ODST squad from Halo knew how to fly Phantoms however ironically the best equipment for them was actually their ballistics, like the MAC canon was actually effective against Covenent cruisers. Super earths biggest weakness is their space ships and if they cant survive space then all it takes if the Covenant to simply glass the planets.
5. I honestly believe the Helldivers could beat the Banish but they dont stant a chance against the Covenant at full strength let alone a flood infestation or a Forerunner attack.
To the comment above, yes the mantis, cloaking, and shields may have been better in performance. But difference I assume is that Helldivers mechs and equipment were more likely designed with mass production as a priority.
Because of how slow the Covenant are to adopt new technology and how extremely militarized super Earth is to the point of trying to weaponize nearly anything and everything. The Helldivers would very quickly start adopting and advancing their technology to match or surpass the Covenant after they get their hands on some wreckages/samples. After a year or less of combat they would likely start overtaking the Covenant unless the Covenant started treating them like the flood and just glassed everything and anything.
Glassing the surface of Super Earth won't kill us. It will only make us angrier
@@brandonjew1397 exactly why the flood will follow
They have yet to mass produce Illuminate weaponry for their basic helldivers.
I think the helldivers can take out the flood...@@JustinRVG101
@@brandonjew1397slipspace rupture detected.
Super Earths navy obviously doesn’t just consists of Super Destroyers though, they’re made for low orbit engagements not naval combat SEAF navy must be even more massive
Keep in mind that Super Destroyers are used almost exclusively by the Helldivers Corps., and they are considered the special forces units. Special forces only make up a fraction of the forces in a single branch of the military i.e. Navy and Army. So that means that the number of Super Destroyers would only make up a fraction of the total vessels used by the SEAF.
@martechi4236 has an amazing series of videos of how Super Earth fleet might look like, they're beautiful and fill the gaps that arrowhead is not currently interesting in filling.
But the DSS is basically going to be a Death Star and Super Earth has already made black holes (we think) out of planets, so Super earth is no slouch in the scorched planet policy field.
@xdlol1177 *Does head math on numbers of proper SEAF Army and Navy numbers*
Sweet Liberty…
@@duncanharrell5009 If you think about it, the SEAF Navy most likely beat back the Automaton armada in space and blockaded most of their ships to allow Divers to retake the planets.
@@xdlol1177 it wasn't easy by any means but we got it done. for sweet liber-tea!
I bet on super earth Because in the first game, they managed to beat the faction that was hundreds of years more advanced while fighting to other enemies
To be fair, they fought, a splinter faction of super earth, oversized bugs, and peace loving space squids.
@@gabusdeuxthose peace loving squids had actual mind control powers and a planet destroying device they’d use if they reached Super Earth (non-cannon since SE won the first war story wise but losing shows they blow it up)
@@pyromancingking well actually the war started because of the planet destroying bombs
@@carlosvicenty-9856Iraq: yep we do indeed had WMD
@@gabusdeux those "peace loving squids" were not only leagues more technologically advanced than the covenant, but also had psychic powers to boot. They are basically the love child of the Tau and Eldar from warhammer 40k
The main difference between the Helldivers and the ODST is the descent capsule. The ODST capsule descends at high speed but they are maneuverable and at approximately 3 kilometers high it activates the parachute, reducing its speed to about 100 kilometers per hour, enough distance for a gunner with good aim to shoot them down. The Hellpods descend with additional propulsion when fired instead of having a rocket, so once you fire them you cannot change the trajectory, you will have a 3 meter bullet traveling at mach 5 and only about 50 meters from the ground the The retro-thrusters will be activated to control the fall a little, which is why a beacon is needed to indicate where to fire the Hellpods. But still in physical terms if a Hellpod falls on something it would be equivalent to being crushed by a cargo ship due to the kinetic energy.
It’s effectively kinetic artillery, which is also canon with that use lol.
Me during a Support Dive as replacement for a dead Diver-
"That a gigantic bug over there? Ima land on it's head."
Its worth noting that Super Earth specializes in fighting numerically superior forces. They also undoubtedly have a number of larger ships built for space combat rather than ground support.
Nah, Helldivers are used to fighting numerically superior foes, but humanity in the Helldiver's universe has near 40k levels of population. Helldivers are special forces and the SEAF in general is nearly incomprehensibly massive.
@lorehammer40k4 the reason nobody wins when 40k is because they fight on all fronts. Humanity was fighting a three front war including a species that literally breeds faster than cockroaches and a species that is far older and has had far more time to reproduce. The cyborgs were far fewer in number yes, but they diverted a third of SE's forces away from the other fronts.
In short Super earth won a war that was harder (or at least on par with) Humanity's war in warhamer 40k. Super earth would crush in this fight no contest.
Covenant ships will still outperformed the super earth ships
@@onikai7055 maybe, but if super earth's dinky little troop carriers can give them a run for their money due to shear numbers, what can SE cruisers, battleships and aircraft carriers do in similarly massive numbers?
Also SE territory is massive. Even if the covenant destroyed the entire SE navy in the early war, SE would copy covenant tech and make a better fleet before the covenant could glass every world.
@ I doubt it lol the covenant had 800 worlds so yea
*UNSC:* "Super earth has freed us!"
"I wouldnt say freed. More like... Under managed democracy..."
2 things i like to consider when talking about different lores conflicting in video games.
1. Video game mechanics vs real lore, people tend to forget that in books, cut scenes, and general lore is more accurate then just looking at how things work in gameplay, some full fledged spartans have actually died to things that would never kill chief in game, and how enemies feel to fight in helldivers is far different to how they feel to fight in halo. For instance, armor just works fundamentally differently. The diligence counter sniper would likely 1 shot a brute, but the dmr from halo does not
2. Especially with video games, we have little way of knowing the true extent of the lore, you brought this up with both games we have very little real information on the true number of soldiers, but one thing you should address is that looking at active players in helldivers, isn't the best representation of helldivers number, after all they won the first galactic war, helldivers 1 canonically happened. That means super earth has dozens of fully colonized planets, they were defence missions afterall. With that population of under super earth claiming they have 2 million helldivers feels off, and that's ignoring the obvios lack of mention for the SEAF, and like you, i too grew up with halo. So i am also very biased. But i also like to look at all sources to make the most accurate assumptions in these cases.
Another thing that someone else mentioned is that the game in helldivers 2 is a bit more accurate than the game in halo. I think I heard somewhere that all deaths in hd2 is canon, so we know AT LEAST how many helldivers have died
You have to remember that super destroyers are just space C-17s. They're entirely meant for helldiver support. They arent the F35s of the helldiver universe
Imagine planet with 20,000 players on it. It's 20k super destroyers in orbit. Each with hundreds of frozen divers and we don't even know what other space assets SE navy has.
And we didn't glass a planet. We turned it into freaking black hole that is not a portal.
Of course for balancing reasons we only get up to 5 of them before we're at the mercy of cooldowns.
But that's still a potential *minimum* of 100k helldivers.
@@mitchellbarton7915 minus the at least 10k+ that will be friendly fire incidents. But it's still a lot! 😅
The DSS now too
Money is on super earth with the covenant probably saying “these guys are more fanatical zealots than us…” obviously in Halo they have ODST but now imagine every single one of them has a personal arsenal of calling in mini nukes artillery powerful weapons, and suddenly every piece of land your conquering can’t be fortified because your playing a game of hide and seek trying to find a squad of shock troopers that are destroying important strategic assets to your war effort. I’d imagine some missions for helldivers would be “deliver this havoc nuke to that covenant carrier” and they’d have ships land on top to drop pod on. Worst case scenario Super Earth finds the home world for each alien species and tells the Helldivers “your mission is to drill this liquid into their planet” and suddenly the planet is breaking apart becoming a black hole
Nay, Who'd work the mines if their home planets are destroyed?
Canonically each super destroyer has enough weapons to glass a full on moon.
@@karal_the_crazy Does? i see people saying all sorts of crazy stuff super earth has but there is little to no lore for hell divers and most of it seems like head cannon or video game mechanics. Covenant easily steam rolls the hell divers
@ actually this one is in the game. I think it is one of the people on the ship
@@karal_the_crazyto be specific, one Super Destroyer can level a small moon not a full moon
Hold on. This video took the Helldivers into account, but what about the greater SEAF? For all we know, for every helldiver, Super Earth has at least 100 SEAF soldiers. While they are without a doubt squishier, less trained, and less well armed than Helldivers, they still do use the standard liberator, which we know rips lighter bugs and bots apart, and likely do use support weapons and stratagems, just on a much, much smaller scale. I think if we take the SEAF and Helldiver corps into account, it may not even be a question. I think Super Earth would roll over the Covenant if the full force of the SEAF was deployed. And that's not taking into account how fast the Ministry of Science adapts to threats, and how easily they weaponize superior alien tech through samples, as we've seen via the Illuminate. Gaining ground from Super Earth would be downright impossible for the covenant, and the longer a war with Super Earth drags out, the more they adapt and the more effective it becomes at combatting whatever threat its faced with.
I've seen the bodies of seaf troopers with the scythe and whatever the primary laser beam is called so normal seaf troops can get better weapons
There are bodies of SEAF troops dead next to a destroyed devastator with a shovel jammed into its chest. SEAF troops are prepared to go full Kreig on robots twice their size.
@@AezryaKitsunei don’t think SE would even only limit them that, for all we know they would fund their main force SEAF like how US army arms theres, a ton of guns and vehicles.
In game dialogue confirms that Strategems are reserved for Helldiver use only
And tbh if it's that they invade the helldiver universe they also are fighting the bugs and bots too lol
One thing I haven't seen anyone mention is that: sure, there was at the peak player base, 500,000 concurrent players, that was from probably around a million if not more different people. Which would mean over a million Super Destroyers, and if the Super Destroyers only make up a smaller fraction of the SEAF Navy, I can't even imagine just how many of the Liberty class ships there are, not to mention the millions of Eagle-1s and Pelican-1s that would come with the millions of Super Destroyers. Basically, their navy is absolutely enormous.
And yet made of glass, considering the ships can be shot out of the air by bugs.
@@VeryScarySmileships only explode when above bot occupied planets
@cookieman5112 yeah, I admit I misremembered that
@@VeryScarySmile And even then the helldiver superdestroyer is a support craft. It's not meant to be fighting in a naval engagement at all. Considering that superearth likely isn't stupid they will probably design ships for naval combat, if they don't already have any, and make better ships for naval combat.
@@cookieman5112super destroyers are basically space C-130
The issue with comparing the super earth space navy (SESN?) to the covenant navy is our perspective as players.
We effectively only ever engage planets where we have total space superiority, the automatons are forced to fire at us planetside.
We are also the specialized orbital shock troops, one branch of the army.
We don't see SEAF because we're the vanguard, we're ahead of them, we don't see the navy because they are our vanguard.
TLDR: We can't compare space born assets because we never see them, and the super destroyer is a dedicated orbital bombardment craft.
You're right, we don't know anything concrete about the SEAF navy ships, but I believe it's possible to speculate about them based on information already present in the game.
1: The possibility of them having shields is high, since it is a common technology of Super Earth, and they have the advantage of not needing to lower their shields to shoot.
2: Super Destroyers are extremely numerous ships, and they only represent a fraction of the Navy, so it is possible that the other ships exist in equally large or even greater numbers.
3: Super Earth has access to several energy weapons, such weapons could give them greater ease in dealing with Covenant shields that the UNSC lacked.
4: Finally, there is also a high chance that they are very agile ships, since Super Destroyers have the ability to turn and move at extreme speeds through the orbit of planets.
@@LipeSun What makes you believe that their shielding would be on par with the covenant? Who’s ships could regularly tank into the triple digits of megaton yields and keep fighting.
The covenant had the industry to produce millions of ships, and they did.
Nothing to me suggests that SE plasma is on the same level as Covenant plasma, which can burn through armor with glancing shots, and with direct impact can burn through meters of treated titanium alloy.
Plasma Torpedoes could track SE ships endlessly without halting, don’t know if they’d be agile enough to outrun it forever.
@@zenoohshit5498 I won't say for sure that I believe the shields of the SE ships are equivalent to those of the Covenant, but I will say for sure that they could at least withstand a few hits, and I say this based on personal shields (which are better than the Covenant's), in the vast majority of cases, Covenant personal shields can only withstand one hit from an anti-tank weapon before falling, and often the user dies with it, Meanwhile, Helldivers' shield backpacks are capable of withstanding a tank hit before falling and still keeping the wearer alive with little to no injuries, If personal shields can be this strong, then I imagine ship-sized shields should be able to withstand at least a few hits from some of the Covenant ships before being disabled.
The Super Earth industry is also capable of producing hundreds of thousands of ships, given the size of the Super Destroyer fleet and the fact that huge numbers of them have already been destroyed, but this doesn't seem to be a bother to SE.
Plasma weapons may not be on the same level as the Covenant's, but they are certainly not far behind, because they can burn through the armor of Devastators, whose armor is approximately equivalent to the armor of a Hanvee, Furthermore, they have an area effect, allowing them to take down several enemies at once.
Lastly, Super Destroyers are capable of circling an Earth-sized planet in a few seconds, I don't know how fast Covenant plasma missiles are, but I doubt they'll be able to keep up with this for long.
the ftl jumps of the super destroyaers are just about instantaneous right? while the covenant have naval superiority, the helldiver's ability to mobilise quickly gives them a tremendous edge. allowing for hit and run tactics in massive amounts.
So basically guerrilla warfare space edition
Yes
@@shawnna1398also they somehow won without ftl with an enemy that has one while in 3 front war
Some things that aren’t mentioned are super destroyers can move around a planet in seconds and it was stated that one super destroyer has enough firepower to destroy a small moon
A major factor few latch onto here: When your FTL moves you around at warp 9.999999, against most possible rivals in a sci-fi battle you get to choose every space engagement. Hell save the covies if the SEAF figured out how to practice tactical use of the alcubierre drive to blink their ships around.
Remember that canonically superearth beat the illuminate while in a three front war with termanids and automatons.
Cyborgs*
@frenchsoldier8485 what makes you think I'm talking about helldivers1.
We all know where HD2 is going.
@@millerrepin4452 Canonically, they haven't won yet
@@frenchsoldier8485 And you think super earth losing is a possibility? Really sounding like a bug/bot/alien squid sympathizer here...
@@bigmannn2443 **loads pistol with democratic intent**
Biggest issue is we don’t know Super Earths naval to naval capability. But we know the funding is there. Each individual helldiver has their own ship. That’s fucking insane. I cannot imagine the scale of the rest of the navy
"The cost of a single Helldiver Deployment is equal to the cost of a single 'Liberty' Class Cruiser."
So the knowledge that there are other types of ships since we fight on a 'Super Destroyer' and the Eagle is effectively the fighter craft of choice here, safe to say that Super Earth DOES have a competent and diversified Space Navy.
Not really. A super destroyer has an entire truckload of helldivers. It's just that the one that's currently thawed out is in command
@ canonically I can’t remember nor know how that works or if it’s a gameplay mechanic or whatever
Something I didn't see mentioned before:
FTL is very near instantaneous in Helldivers.
Slipspace travel still takes quite a while. Reach and CE are months apart, but the Covenant is significantly faster than the UNSC at Slipspace travel and the Forerunners were quite close to instantaneous travel (as seen in H4)
That by itself is a massive advantage in space engagements.
Halo Reach fell on August 30, 2552. Halo CE started September 19, 2552. Thats not Months lol thats days and thats because there was actually multiple conflicts in between the 2 games. Yes Super Earth has faster ships but they are very weak, we can literally see them get taken out from the planets and their space armaments arnt very impressive. The UNSC ships have them beat especially with MAC cannons.
Super Earth ships also cant travel past enemy lines which could mean they actually cant travel that fast and just have lots of 'clone ships' or they simply cant penetrate enemy space defenses. Whereas a very small Covenant fleet accidentally traveled straight to earth, absolutely destroyed their defenses then left just as quick lol.
@@phatdogwhile you are technically right about seeing ships get taken out those are super destroyers which are mainly built to provide orbital support and isn't one of their mains warships they use for fleet battles
@@phatdogahh yes cuz a planet surface gun able to shoot something from atmo is weak, ever thought of those scenes you see when a SD explodes, consider that the automaton gun is just that strong and not because the SD is weak?
@@unloyal4847maybe part of what he’s trying to say is true. Covenant ships were notorious for decimating titanium armor and metals as they were basically shooting stars at the unsc. So, even if super earth has bigger ships than the liberty class destroyer, that doesn’t change that the covenant have super earth bested in terms of tech. Also, guerrilla space warfare won’t work for super earths ships either, as the covenant have energy shields on their ships which can block attacks from super earth ships.
@@thetacticalguy62 Underestimated Super Earth, big time.
Black Hole go Brrrrrrrr
The way helldivers send small squads of troops willing to sacrifice themselves for any objective necessary combined with a seemingly unending number of ground troops I believe ground warfare would be near impossible for the covenant. Space warfare is a bit different due to a lack of knowledge. However I believe even though super destroyers are mostly an orbit to ground type vehicle they could likely perform space to space combat fairly well. The level of penetrative capabilities some strategems possess could be used for devastating the energy shield. The ems strike, railcannon, and laser come to mind. So we don't know the capability of super destroyer captains, pilots, and weapons officers, but I believe they could develop strategies to target the larger vessels while having pelicans and eagles performing defensive combat space patrols. Helldivers would definitely suggest aiming the hellpod system into the covenant ships and if successful would willingly sacrifice themselves to destroy power infrastructure or disable shielding to be rescued while higher damage strategems make quick work of exposed power cores. I don't think it would be any easy battle, but just remember. The helldivers turned meridia into a black hole through sheer numbers and determination.
Spartans are literally extremely trained super soldiers and better then Helldivers in every way. They were dropped into enemy territory in large numbers and still lost. The UNSC never actually fought the Covenants full force only small portions of it, in fact they only survive the war because of the Banish Rebellion and the Flood attack.
We see Super Earth ships getting blown up from single hits from planetary guns implying they are very weakly armored and feature no shielding. The UNSC ship armaments actually make the Helldivers ships look very tiny too. MAC cannons are SIGNIFICANTLY bigger then the railcanon. They also feature Hellfire missile barrages and have jets that can drop nuke payloads.
The UNSC has ODST drop pods which are basically identical to the Helldiver pods and they werent very effective at all against the Covenant ships, good idea tho and was used a few times in the Halo war.
The covenants ground units make the Bots vehicles look like toys. And if you cant put up a fight against them in space then I'm sorry to say but their Glassing beam laser is significantly more deadly then the Helldivers one and they will show no mercy at terraforming planets from space.
Why are you going off player number? Look at the amount of Helldivers deaths. That gives you an amount of Helldivers that cannon.
Because there’s a difference between how many personnel were killed over a period of time and the limit of active personnel a military can logistically support and deploy at any given moment
@@yunggaryy3088ya but when more than 1 Billion deaths in less than a year of war, is considered more than acceptable. I think the scale of super earths military is much higher than that.
@@imjezzo1989 You cant take video game mechanics into conversations like this lmao. that is video game. there is not a HUGE ammount of lore in helldivers. if you really want to take mechanics of games into account then every spartan killed in multiplayer since Halo CE is canon and lends to the overall numbers of just spartans alone. You HAVE to separate game mechanics from lore.
@@freed991 There is the difference that helldiver's in game statistics, community choices, and if they win or lose is actually consideded for the games lore. Like when the helldiver resupply missions happened and you needed to defend the launch pods with frozen helldiver's. It shapes the story and the numbers are always changing. It's a fluid campaign. Halo instead is a strict cannon with a known amount of gen 2 and three Spartans (ignore the last spartan threes to leave onyx. As far as I know we don't know much about them yet) but the multiplayer is completely separated from the actual lore of the games itself. It's not really a fair comparison to make because both games are doing cannon in different ways.
Sorry if this was a hard to understand ramble
@freed991 cry harder buddy. Multiplayer isnt canon. All of helldivers is canon.
just gonna point iut about helldivers againts snipers
helldivers do have expierince against snipers
illuminates
theres also reason why a counter sniper weapom exist ingame
Invisible snipers to my memory as well, hated those guys
The Covenant are about to behold what true zealotry looks like
A big problem with the super destroyer is that its not meant for space combat, all the weapons are on the front and those are meant for orbital attacks
Yup, super destroyers are planetary assault ships, while space combat is the liberty class cruisers specialty. The only thing we know about them is they are as expensive as a super destroyer operation. You can actually see some on automaton planets and, in some cases, crashing down to the surface of a planet when you are doing an automaton mission.
Maneuver the super destroyer on top of the ships?
@@bbunkey what you’re forgetting is that no enemy will voluntarily let you go ontop of them to attack, a super destroyer would be absolutely obliterated before they would have any chance to do that
@@aurorahasfallenon top is kinda a redundant concept in space, you just sorta lean left then fire all the canons and lasers as they are now bellow you
@@Shadow-sword I’d assume due to the ships artificial gravity, all the crew would be leaning awkwardly and that’d make it harder for them to fire their weapons, but I’m no expert on sci fi space tactics lol
So it would be like fighting the Bots but if they had shield packs, the tanks were faster, and the ships were more agile with less armor.
so basically the illuminate
@@monkeyman4346 I was about to write that 😂
@@monkeyman4346less mind controll and magic though
@@Shadow-sword what I was rhinking
Basically if the Illuminate were religious zealots who don't have any magic.
A lot of the comments here mention, SEAF forces, helldivers is only spec-ops, super earth is really good at reverse engineering tech, etc.
I don't see any comments mentioning General Brasch. Pretty much the master chief of helldivers. (Lore accurate master chief) not game master chief
We've seen the training that Helldivers take, they're literally just expendable soldiers to throw on suicide guerrilla warfare missions. Yes they are trained and some survive to be very experienced like General Brasch but they are by no means anywhere near as trained or equipped like a Spartan lol. And to put it in perspective the Spartans were thrown on suicide missions too just like Helldivers but they basically never returned and only stalled the Covenant. The UNSC never fought the full might of the Covenant and only survived the war because of the Banish Rebellion and the Flood.
@@phatdog yeah, but there are billions of helldivers and about 2000ish spartans. Makes no sense comparing them. Also, spartans are expensive to make and takes time. Helldivers are just hot-headed fanatics that grow on every tree. They are super expendable.
@@phatdog The fact that their training is poor does not take away from their role as “Special Forces” that Super Earth gives them, however questionable it may be...
@@phatdog In Training? Without a doubt, but in Equipment?? They are more equal than you think: The Helldivers have a wide arsenal of weapons and armor, ranging from kinetic and laser weapons equal in capacity to those of the UNSC [the latter having unlimited ammunition], Plasma weapons that rival those of the Covenant and armor that does not have to envy much to the Spartan armor in terms of damage absorption, all this Without counting that each Helldiver Captain receives command of a *Planetary Siege Ship* with Subliminal capacity and practically Instant FTL and enough firepower to level a Small City several times.
The unsc is also very good at reverse engineering, they had forerunner engines and shields in a few years. They just didn't have room to breath because the convenent glassed most of their planets before they knew what was going on, and insurgent colonies were also a problem. The unsc was on the road to becoming an empire comparable to the SEAF. The convenent just hit them just before they got there. If the convenent got to the humans maybe a hundred years later they wouldn't have a chance.
A few corrections here:
1. Super Earth definitely has more to their navy than Super Destroyers and Cruisers. They can contend with Automaton space fleets, which when viewed from the ground consist of ships that make Super Destroyers look like toys. And that's not even counting the shadows of Illuminate ships you can sometimes see in skyboxes. Super Earth is hardly lacking in the space fighting department.
2. Super Earth has *rudimentary* energy shields. I wouldn't say they're as good as the Covenant, but they can definitely both bring and break through energy shields. Their application in the space fighting field, though, is definitely lesser, since Orbital Cannons can actually take out Super Destroyers meaning they don't have energy shields/don't have good energy shields. Maybe they only use them on Cruisers and up?
3. A Helldiver is likely approaching being comparable to a Spartan in capability, although obviously not quite as good. Their armor, although fairly meh in game, is canonically made of the same stuff the armor on the Super Destroyer is made of, so some kind of advanced light yet durable alloy like the Spartans. They can use experimental and totally not addictive stims to shrug off grievous injury and boost their physical capability - without which they can already carry and run with dozens of kilos of weapons, grenades, ammo and armor.
4. Unlike the Spartans, Helldivers are not the product of a specific, dedicated and expensive program with only a handful of participants. Helldivers are just young, hot-blooded individuals who volunteer from within the SEAF forces, and, if they survive more than 2 seconds on their downright suicidal Special Ops missions, are damn good at what they do. And given the base SEAF is massive, likely encompassing every aspect of Super Earth life, there's always fresh blood for the Helldivers and the SEAF in general.
5. The success of the Helldivers and SES implies a strategic flexibility beyond that of the UNSC's, meaning they can fight a galactic war in a nimbler and more adaptive manner, which is the main weakness of the Covenant.
6. The difference in morale and war manpower between UNSC and SEAF is incomparable. The whole empire is an army, and one willing to die for Super Earth. This is how they contended with 3 separate invasions by the Cyborgs, Illuminate and Terminids. In fact, given that Super Earth beat Covenant-Lite (the Illuminate) whilst fighting 2 other civilisations 100 years ago, I'd say they're equipped to fight the Covenant.
I think you need to research the sheer scale of the Covenant. They make the illiminate look like a small invasion fleet. The Flood is also significantly more deadlier then the Terminids and the Forerunners and far superior then the bots in every way, they literally have galaxy wide super weapons.
@@phatdog Fighting a 3 war front against 3 completely different opponents. 1 massive rebellion leading to death machine human hybrids than would cut a covvie in half very painfully, 1 peaceloving hyperadvanced race of hyperintelligent beings, and 1 lot of intelligent bugs that HAD star to star capability. This was 100 years ago and Super Earth fought every one of them, AND WON with arguably, less superior tech now. The covenant have the numbers, but they aren't completely fanatic nor completely perfect in speed of most aspects. The flood are pretty easily countered thanks to this thing called helmets. Helldivers have access to Corrosive Gas which will ERADICATE spores. Helldivers can deploy anywhere on a planet's surface in no time at all and can hot drop into a hive. They can complete suicide missions with 24 or less divers. The Flood are formidable, but Super Earth thrives in being the "underdog"
@@glazredfield9489first, how do you know that corrosive gas will counter the flood, it’s basically big bug spray. Second, the flood also have infection forms which will bypass the armor of anyone, even Spartans. Third, if a helldivers comes into the ship with contaminated armor, then the spores will infect at least one person on the ship, and yes, there can be cleaning of the armor before a helldiver re-enters a ship but let’s be honest, at least one person out of the millions in the SEAF will be ignorant and let it happen, which will result in infighting, and then it is just high charity all over again. Not to mention flood dispersal pods which can be a sort of countermeasure to the helldivers. Not to mention the gravemind can be formed in not too long of a time, and if the infestation gets to that point, super earth better pray to the Statue of Liberty because they are not getting out of that. Not to mension that pressure plus the covenant will decimate the SEAF’s morale, leading to a victory for the flood.
@phatdog the illuminate soldiers killed in hd1 alone are roughly 10% of all covenant population
also your wrong about the Helldiver is likely approaching being comparable to a Spartan in capability depends heck helldivers not close to spartains 3. they close to odst but even not fully close odst still 10x better in everyway because train for it so think helldivers which are the elite were trained and get gun and instant into war... yah... spartains make odst look like toys... and 3s... 2s.. make all spartains look toys... spartains close warhammer super solider and should say alot example mastercheif is not fastest,strongest,more skill etc spartain 2 but the luckest but being spartain 2 mc for example (Can deadlift at least 3 times his own body weight, and deadlifted 500 kilograms as a test. Kicked a man wearing an exoskeleton comparable in mass to Mjolnir armor 8 meters away) | Class 10 with MJOLNIR armor and keep in mind 3x there body weight and hes with his armor is around a 1 ton and for example class 10 is The weight of an adult elephant. Casually flips overturned 3 ton Warthog jeeps single-handedly. One Spartan moved a large stone monolith while also fighting back the pain of losing half of his left arm lol and his durablity (Renders him virtuously impervious to all UNSC and Covenant infantry weapons, this includes Spartan Lasers, Wraith Mortars, and Scarab beam), at least Small City level with Bubble Shield (Repels all projectiles and nearly all explosions outside the bubble shield. Withstood a several Megaton Nuclear explosion) and striking strength Wall level (A 14-year old John accidentally pummeled several ODSTs to death without even realizing it and launched one of them 30 feet with a few punches) and keep mind again odst make helldivers look childplay helldivers but train.. like special forces Is also comparable to Holly Tanaka, who effortlessly smashed through rock this big with a Spartan charge) i cant find the picture but this pictur vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FanofRPGs/Spartan_Ramming_Strength and can (Comparable to Cal-141, who deadlifted 5 tonnes Superhuman movement speed (Ran half a kilometer in 17 seconds; nearly 106 kilometers per hour, but tore his Achilles tendon doing it) with Subsonic combat speed (Can react to stun rounds) | Superhuman movement speed (Should be faster than before), higher with Speed Amps, with Supersonic combat speed (Can react to bullets and Covenant plasma projectiles. Has barely dodged handgun fire at point-blank range. Viewed combat with the ODST's in slow motion) higher with Cortana (With her help, he reacted to a projectile he'd be unable to normally)... yep... sorry these spartain 2 helldiver dont comapire and spartains 3 like half that.. only execption spartain 3 who close to spartain 2 and noble 6.. and close mc both hyper leathal vector and few things , Can see Invisible beings and X-Ray/Thermographic Vision with Promethean Vision so alot more to spartains then think... im sorry helldivers very good sci fire... when comes halo.. halo outclass most helldiverse verse tect,power name it all.. but still be pretty good but halo is just that and dont me started ai... any of ai break the helldiverse verse into nothingless.. ai like cortna hack all of super earth forces,and robots.. at same time without even trying... that power ai... im sorry nah.
The elite piloting the wraith watching the sky as a targeting laser lines up directly on its center mass(its about to be shot with a hunk of tungsten flying mock 7 from orbit)
All the Helldiver ships were annhilated 100,000km away by a plasma lance. They souldnt even make planetfall.
In the Halo Universe, the biggest reason as to why humanity kept losing was because of their inability to maintain space superiority. They only won due to the anger of a man in a green suit of armor and his blue vtuber model (accurate, but I'm making a joke here too).
Given the unknown amount of SES Cruisers and every Super Destroyer being essentially the equivalent of the UNSC's Halberd-class destroyers or possibly some lower class UNSC cruisers such as an unmodified Halcyon-class (do some lore digging and compare it to the super destroyer), it would be unlikely that SEAF would be able to maintain space superiority.
High Charity, the fleet that destroyed Reach, and the fleet around the unyielding heirophant could be estimated to be over 2000 ships and that's of the higher tier Covenant cruisers.
So assuming the covenant have space superiority over a planet but decide not to glass it (such as their is a special forerunner artifact on the planet), the planet is essentially blocked off from the rest of Humanity.
Helldivers would have no strategems available to call in and would only bring to the fight what they could transport on Eagle's (assuming they aren't tasked with air superiority which is mostly an irrelevant factor when space superiority is a far more determinate outcome of Sci fi conflicts), pelicans, and ground assets leaving them without deployable turrets, call in weapons, and orbital strategems.
Meanwhile the covenant have full access to their orbital support with some aerial assets available since the SEAF air force would contest the skies, the Helldivers and SEAF on a single planet would be able to out up a hell of a fight before losing.
Ultimately, when it comes to a planetary invasion, the space battle would essentially be an overwhelming victory for the Covenant while the every planetfall operation would result in pyrrhic victories for the Covenant.
Should this war fight all the way to Super Earth, I do believe that the covenant would ultimately succeed, but would take tons of time to economically, and militarily recover from this conflict leaving them perfectly vulnerable to other factions such as the illuminate.
EDIT: doing some research of my own and it appears that Super Destroyers are far weaker than a UNSC Halberd and unmodified Halcyon. Moreover when comparing the numbers and observations they cannot even stand toe to toe against a UNSC Paris class as seen in my 2nd comment below.
It sucks that they don't elaborate on the liberty class cruisers in the Helldivers' verse but it's hard to say the covenant would outright when because "big ships". They state that every orbital attack the super destroyer has but stronger plus FTL capabilities. If they are purely focusing on space battles you could argue that if they get a foothold on a planet they could setup orbital guns like the Helldivers did for that one major order (i forget which one). The liberty cruisers are faster than the covanent ships and have weapons that can take down their shielding which the UNSC had trouble with so it's hard to say super earth gets beat in space outright
@@Tengu-Atlas I can agree with the FTL, but offensively and defensively, i do not believe the SEAF navy can survive unless the Liberty-class cruisers are more impressive than General Brasch and his incredible service record.
In Halo, one of the first space battles was between a UNSC Paris-class frigate and a CRS-class Covenant light cruiser.
The Paris boasts 60cm of Titanium-A armor (Closest known IRL permutation is Titanium-50), with a MAC gun which can launch 600 ton depleted uranium rounds at velocities faster than a 380mm round from a Super Destroyer and is also armed with 3 shiva class nukes.
Although no direct numbers for Shiva's are stated, its sister class, the Havok, is a relatively newer and improved tactical nuke with a yield of 30 megatons (30,000,000 tons of TNT) so for the sake of this argument, I am going to say that Shiva's have a yield of 15 megatons (15,000,000 tons of TNT) (For reference, the Tsar Bomba was the biggest IRL nuke detonated at 50 megatons which is 50,000,000 tons of TNT).
The CRS was hit with 2 MAC rounds which weakened its shields and was still hit by a shiva and didn't die.
The Paris was hit with a handfull of plasma torpedos which heavily damaged the Paris with crew damage reports stating 1 torpedo can burn through 56cm of Titanium A armor.
The Paris was designed for combat against human insurrectionists so is fairly durable against kinetic weaponry, but incredibly weak against plasma weaponry.
A SEAF Super Destroyer (referred to as SD from here on out) has the dimensions of 170x80 meters not counting height and carries hellbombs which are the most destructive explosive armament aboard an SD. Upon visual comparisons with IRL nuclear tests and in-game hellbombs, hellbombs appear to have an explosive yield of 1.5 kilotons (1,500 tons of TNT). For reference, one of the nukes used in WW2 had a yield of 15 kilotons (15,000 tons of TNT). The average height of a human being is 1.7 meters tall and a hellbomb appears to be 1 meter tall compared to a human and about 0.5 meters wide when comparing with Helldiver player models.
Doing some math, you can fit around 330 hellbombs (1 hellbomb per 1 meters length = 170 hellbombs, 1 hellbomb per 0.5 meters width = 160 hellbombs, 170+160=330; Side note, this number makes no sense since you need to account for open space in the hanger, bridge, armories, hellpod storage, helldiver cryo pods, ammo storage for 380's, 120's, 500kgs, 50 Cals, Rockets, Mechs, etc... but we'll use this value for the argument) in one SD. 330 hellbombs when exploded at the same place at the same time would have a yield of 330 kilotons (330,000 tons of TNT) which is significantly less than a shiva class tactical nuke.
Now I've already made the comparison for the 380mm cannon as the MAC is, numbers wise, far superior than the 380 so we can talk about the laser cannon and the railcannon.
The railcannon despite being able to fire a round at a high velocity, it can only one-shot Bile Titans, Hulks, tanks, and anything smaller. We are talking about naval combat here against a ship that can survive a 15 megaton explosion so unless the railcannon was converted into a minigun and fired a denser round at a higher velocity, it won't make any meaningful damage against a single CRS.
As for the Orbital laser gun, comparing it to covenant glassing which can burn hotter and wider than the orbital laser, it is considerably weaker than covenant armaments, but is one of the best bets against covenant shield technology assuming an SD can stay alive for long enough to deplete a shield that can withstand a 15 megaton explosion.
Now in terms of an SD's armor, it can't survive a single round from an automaton surface-to-orbit gun (as seen when orbiting a hostile automaton planet). The orbital guns they use appear to fire a round that is visually similar to a 380mm round (you can climb on top of the guns in the "destroy orbital cannon" missions and see the round used). Although no density, mass, volume, velocity, material, or overall energy values are given, it does have enough energy to leave the atmosphere of a planet and still be able to one-shot an SD. Not to mention the lack of energy shielding SD's have. And of course due to a relatively large lack of lore in the HD2 universe, there are unknown variables when it comes to the armor material and density used on SDs.
With SD's being unable to survive what appears to be a 380mm round fired at a velocity faster than a planet's escape velocity and doesn't even have enough explosive energy to even bother the CRS's energy shields, the entire fleet of SEAF SD's seems unable to stand against a single covenant fleet. For any chance of the SEAF Navy to survive a naval engagement with the covenant, as I said in the beginning of this comment, those Liberty-class cruisers need to be more impressive than General Brasch himself to stand any chance against a CRS-class light cruiser.
Most of my information comes from Halopedia, the official wiki for Halo lore, IRL nuclear tests post WW2, and visual observations made in Helldivers 2 on both the bug and bot front.
Super Earth loves to “burrow” tech and reverse engineer them, take out a covenant ship and they’ll make it 10x better and would mass produce then enough that would even make 40k manifactorum blush
Yeah, no. Helldivers can barely harness illuminate technology. They still don't even know how it works. That and the fact that the imperium is much bigger than super earth.
The illuminate and covenant are undeniably more advanced.
I think an orbital rail gun would probably do the trick against a hunter just based on what it does to chargers. Good video dude.
I would like to point out 2 things.1) the super destroyers purpose is low orbit ordinance delivery so it would not fight "battle cruiser" kind of ships and 2) knowing super earth the black liquid(same as the one in meridia) would be used in sone kind of torpedo to make energy shields stop working
I feel like it's worth mentioning that the Automatons also have their own spacefaring Navy. Outside of their first Out-Of-Nowhere surprise attack, their Navy hasn't made significant progress towards Super Earth, often times being held back and slowly losing ground to SEAF and Helldiver operations
As for the Super Destroyer, I personally think that a full Laser Strike from the Destroyer's Laser Cannon could punch a hole in the Covenant's shields, thus allowing them to damage the Covenant Ships with their other weapons
They could also just, like, launch pre-armed Hellbombs at the Covenant
My take away, bring a Railgun. I’m sure they will pop like grapes, just as the devastators.
If the Covenant were to invade Super Earth, or any of the other planets under SEAF control, I think they would be dealing with a nightmare. Helldivers are literally fearless. They think they never die. They're expendable, yes but there are records of Super Helldive missions against the Automatons being completed with 0% casualties. If 1 to 4 Helldivers can do that, imagine what more divers like that could do to a Covenant army on the ground. As for their ordnance, they have the opportunity to be equipped with weapons far more devastating and convenient than the Covenant and the UNSC. Each of them can carry more firepower than any of the Covenant ground units. They have the capacity to be equipped with the tools to fight the deadliest vehicles head-on and still come out on top. One single Helldiver with a Heavy machine gun (which is essentially just a full auto AMR) and a shield pack can wipe out a squad of elites before he goes down. It's crazy what these brainwashed maniacs are capable of.
Now, in space, there's no doubt that the Covenant would probably eradicate their ships. The only way they would secure their victory against the SEAF is to wipe out their navy first. The super destroyers carry and nurture the firepower that the Helldivers need to carry out and complete their missions, so if they don't have that, they will have to rely on what they have left on the planet. Like I said before though, Helldivers have ground superiority big time. The Covenant will be forced to spend a lot of resources on a ground war if they wish to parttake in one against the SEAF. At that point they would have to recover once they do take over a planet. The longer they take to do that, the larger the SEAF's retaliatory force will be.
“This is the part where my bias comes in” is a phenomenal line
Considering helldivers can get shot in the chest by a tank shell and survive and fight at 100% effectiveness with a simple stim they could definitely tango with some covenant troops
Not to mention every helldiver could get there own personal shield generator something the unsc only gave out to a few select units and Spartans
I would say helldivers are between odst’s and Spartans in terms of lethality
Covenant in game: Weak asf
Covenant inlore: Literally death.
Kind of unrelated but I would absolutely kill for a ring world in Helldivers 2 just on a base level that'd be so fucking cool
It’s worth mentioning that the Super Destroyers that the Helldivers utilise are designed almost entirely for ground support, (as emphasised by all its weapons on its underbelly). It’s also worth mentioning that the Super Destroyer we see in game is reserved exclusively for the Helldivers. The actual naval power would come from the SEAF. Although there isn’t much information regarding them, it’s safe to assume that a frontline has the most action, (if you look on the horizon of some Helldiver missions you can see massive fires indicating the actual frontline).
Point in being that the Covenant would be going against a foe which is equally if not more fanatic, (don’t put me in a freedom camp), that has the tools required to defeat the Covenant or at put them in a stalemate. Unlike the UNSC which did not have that Libertea… get it? Funny joke? Right guys?
I think that SEAF would be able to win but it would take a long and grueling time
Honestly, outnumbering Covenant Cruisers with smaller, offensive-minded Destroyers is probably a great idea. Destroyer laser weapons on mass would be ideal for taking down Covenant shield technology, and Super Earth could theoretically create ship-grade plasma weaponry for later stages of the war. Assuming the Covenant have better FTL technology, a Super Earth fleet could likely afford to be jumped, lose a few destroyers, and then retaliate. As long as Super Earth's propaganda machine can withstand the loss of multiple destroyers per cruiser engagement, they're probably better equipped than the UNSC is. Super Earth could afford the cruel cost of void warfare better than the UNSC.
Amusingly on the ground, Super Earth forces have readier access to anti-shield technology in the form of their own plasma and laser weapons. What super earth lacks in spartan-grade super soldiers, it probably makes up for with technological flexibility and a more powerful propaganda machine that is even more unified than the covenant's theocracy.
TL;DR: SEAF has a more flexible and robust wartime economy and mindset than the UNSC.
One more thing to add: Essentially, the UNSC lost the conventional war against the Covenant. So "definitely better than the UNSC" doesn't necessarily mean Super Earth wins. I assume we're taking the muguffin's out of the equation: The Halo arrays, the Ark, the Flood, etc. The Covenant was defeated more by a comedy of errors, civil war, forerunner technology, and getting High Charity eaten by the Flood.
I would like to add here, Super Earth's FTL Technology is far superior to the Covenant's, like, infinitely superior, besides, Super Destroyers are not even combat ships, Super Earth has ships specially designated for combat that should come in numbers equally large or even larger than the Super Destroyers
Super earth's FTL is instantaneous. It pretty much can't be any faster than that. Any planet Covenant attacks, super earth will respond extremely quickly.
@vineveer4358 another things is super destroyers could definitely support in naval combat if needed but that's not their job. Notice how in game when fighting the Automatons there is never a ship in sight shooting Super destroyers down. The Helldivers Navy clears what airspace so that the Helldivers can work. If the airspace wasn't clear it's safe to say that the Helldivers wouldn't be fighting there in the first place. The Seaf is the Hammer while the Helldivers are the scapel as they have described
Super earth gets fucking obliterated in a day and its not even a challange
The biggest difference is the FTL technology. Helldiver universe has an instant FTL jump compared to wormhole type in halo universe. So yeah if the laser canon of the super destroyer CAN damage the shield, then it would be random jump onto the covenant ship following with helldivers drops.
I could totally imagine an super destroyer FTL jumping inside a Covenant ship while being filled with hellbombs to the brim. Tech is more expensive than helldivers, but still, just consider the amount of equipment left on a planet after every mission. Losing one of the smallest available ships to a Covenant ship is a no brainer, especially for these super fanatics.
The Helldivers would be able to shred vehicles, support weapons like the R.R., railgun, autocannon, etc. can bust open a hulk just fine. The R.R. can 2 hit a factory strider too.
Edit: R.R. (Recoiless Rifle) could delete a mechanized bile titan thing.
Scarabs are a bit bigger than a factory strider, and slightly better armed. They often carry troops with them like a giant IFV, so not unlike the strider. That being said, a squad of helldivers should still be able to bring one down. Even if it can survive a few recoilless rifle rounds and 500kg bomb hits, I doubt it'd survive a 380mm barrage.
Nah, I'd extract
⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️
I'm pretty sure one Liberty-class cruiser is as expensive as one Helldiver operation. This is pretty much a confirmation that they are similar in numbers. Also, they are way more specialised for space warfare, using lasers and maybe fighters. Considering the fact that Super Earth has access to way more resources and has a gigantic industry compared to the UNSC, while equipping their forces with energy weapons and advanced navigational technology, I say the Covenant is facing an actual threat. The never ending waves of the SEAF, the fast response time from the side of Super Earth and the heavy use of combined arms would probably overwhelm them.
Helldiver's using fire weapons And gas weapons would be funny. Watching grunts running around on fire or gassed covenant troops walking around randomly, blind firing at random. In the halo universe. The grunts and smaller troops can be spooked or scared easy.The helldivers could dark fluid planets or use bug spores against the covenant. There's nothing the covenant could do to stop bug spores from traveling in space and spreading from planet to planet.yes they could glass a planet once the bug spores start making outbreaks of bugs. Also the bugs and bots will be attacking them also. Also the helldiver's are starting to make a space station. So we gotta consider that.
If helldivers had to deal with the covenant theyll probably just outfit their guns and armor to... you know... beat them... cause they have more than enoght ways of kicking their ass
Okay the covenant as much as I love halo are boned againts super earth because we know how this goes it’s called the first galatic war. The covenant had their hands full with Odsts and Spartans as limited as they were helldivers especially the fact 90% of all engagements end in helldivers accomplishing the mission would overwhelm any covenant strategy. Furthermore super earth has had a century to prepare for a round two with the squids or the illuminate. Arguably even more advanced than the covenant more leaning towards forunner level. Yet were wiped off the face of the galaxy wil super earth faught two other factions. Super earth has two legendary soilders in general Brasch ,and John helldiver who rival the master chief ,the numbers in space and on the ground, the experience fighting multiple factions, as well as technology to turn planets into black holes, create sector missile defense systems, and bio warfare that can stop invasions of solar systems. It’s just one is a semi realistic stylized stained glass empire, the other is a comically over powered war machine. I can’t say super earth isn’t coming out on top
You kinda forget... Heldivers 2 already beat our existing enemies by a ratio of 1 - 40... and every time is 4 Helldiver vs a regiment size of enemy force...
1-40? More like 1-300/600
Every planet the helldivers fight on has total Super Earth space superiority before helldivers even get there. I think that says something about how effective their ships of the line are.
Super Earth would immediately enslave the covenant engineers in the most brutal and inhumane way possible.
Every piece of covenant technology they could force them to create would be shipped straight off an assembly line and onto super destroyers.
Any recoverable tech and especially those fancy vehicles would be reverse engineered by the end of the year.
The Helldivers already have an ungodly amount of fire support even without co-opting covenant tech, but stealing designs like energy swords, shields, or higher power plasma weaponry would make the covenant just another faction on the galactic map.
2:25 what? 25ml? Lol i think we hit that number of dead helldivers in the first week❤😂 super earth has 100 yrs of frozen helldivers on all 200+ planets of they'r domain so numbers are really off here, plus we don't really know about birth rate of both parties, but 25ml is super low.
On the ground, I give it to Helldivers for how closely they work with the Super Destroyers. Plasma and Laser weapons are readily available, so they could deal with shields fairly well. But in terms of pure Naval power and military command, Covenant all the way. And I think that's the deciding factor given how it went for the UNSC. Still, none of this matters if General Brasch and John Helldiver are on the field.
The Covenant deploys a lot of AAA though. A Super Destroyer probably wouldn’t be able to sit 1km above an AO like they do in game.
A super destroyer is not a combat ship. It's an orbital support ship.
12:41 gave me chills💀💀
Honestly, the amount of weapons a Hell Diver has access to would crush any ground force the covenant fields. Space battles? Im unsure
Honestly Super Earth would throw Helldivers at any problem they encounter and with sheer amount of them problem would be probably solved. In this moment there's already 2.3 bilion Helldivers dead just in the Second Galactic War (and nearly 100bilion of their enemies). Super Earth must have insane resources. Also the ability to FTL jump into any place in the galaxy in an instant is just op.
Thing about us divers is that we really fighting aliens in a while, and super earth is constantly changing and upgrading
I think the covenant wouldnt last long with the extreme tenacity of the SEAF
A theocratic alien species bent on the destruction of humans?
*coughs in Illuminate*
To be fair, helldiver's Super destroyer are just for fire support as most if not all of their weapons are for ground engagement, i dont think we've seen propper S.E.A.F. warships yet
My headcanon is that Super Earth's navy gets space superiority on a planet and then the helldivers join in to dive instead of having super destroyers fight in space battles
That's probably how it works
You talk about jamming signals, which has a point, but there are on-ground callin's like the SEAF artilery that can be used without connection to a Destroyer. Plus it depends on how strong the jamming may be. Having pinpoint calls thanks to stratagems allows for a lot of jamming being possibly useless, outside of close proximity to a jammer as we see with the automotons.
lets say they do decide to glass a planet in HD2 the problem is when they try they will have to deal with surface to orbit anti ship guns and given the fact the illuminate most likely had shielding similar to the covenant its no stretch to think they could down their ships.
I doubt any orbital weapon the they have can stop a battlecruiser, let alone an Assault Carrier. These are the ships that can withstand a 30 megaton nule without any problems.
I would watch an animation of the SEAF & Helldivers & ODST vs The Covenant, with Master Chief leading a squad of both Helldivers & Helljumpers.
The helldivers would have needlers in a week
general brash could probably solo the covenant (not super earth propaganda)
Hard to take the covenants odds seriously when a group of four helldivers can fry dozens of scarab sized threats in a single mission and can freely deploy shield packs capable of blocking tank shells as well as wear armour heavy enough to eat direct missile strikes, even in space all they need to do is turn the ship sideways and fire the hellpods and barrages for boarding parties as up and down is a dead concept in the void, then the ship can disappear with their much faster more reliable ftl while the squad ransacks the insides of the ship like the blood soaked lunatic zealots they are, then stacking on the having the numbers to fight a three pronged war of attrition against cyborgs literal swarms of man sized bugs and an outer galactic threat with teleportation shields mind controlling nanites and world consuming wmds. And that is completely dismissing the concept of the rest of seaf as we know little of their true scale and ability
I imagine a mission boarding Covenant ship will be overloading the Anti matter reactor with extraction not being that important in their strategy planning.
@@スフィアマスター I’m sure their will be an extraction plan, probably high jacking a drop ship of some form, but it would be a hell of a ride getting out with no guarantees, h divers me be ultimately expendable but super earth isn’t the unsc, they will have a plan to get them back if they can manage to get out fast enough
The covenant shoots back. So no, they won’t be fighting them because they’ll be at the bug front.
😂
We Helldivers can beat anything
Helldivers 2 just doesnt show the true potential of Super Earth's fleet. Its stated 1 Helldiver deployement costs more than a "Liberty class cruiser" we dont know what is a cruiser in the universe.
We do know that the DSS will be able to destroy a small moon with its armament and that a destroyer can level a whole moon itself because its stated as so by one of the crew.
My point is this, Super Destroyers, the only ship you see in the game as of right now, is a ground combat support ship meant for special forces aka Helldivers. We dont know what their space superiority vessels look like.
[This is just me Lore dumping, not disagreeing or agreeing to the video]
Helldivers are the Elites of the SEAF,
Its entirely possible that (if well-equipped) the SEAF Army would hold the line for a little bit, even if just enough to wait for the Helldivers to arrive.
Super Earth culture is also SUPER militarized, to the point 10 year olds are given a bolt-action rifle and expected to be proficient with it.
I do believe that modified Super destroyers could deal a little damage to Covenant ships, if they can make energy shields big enough to cover the Destroyer and if they used the Orbital Laser as a Turret Battery since it would eat through the Covenant shieldings.
[Still think the Humans would need a 3-1 numerical advantage though which would be possible on the planets closer to super earth]
Super Earth has cruisers
At the very least Super Earth has 12 million Super Destroyers if we count how many copies the game sold lol
@@Staladus and cruiser class ships, possibly also battleship class ones.
@staladus It seems to me like the Helldivers corps has been decimated. They used to be able to field 600,000 Helldivers simultaneously. Now they can only field like 60,000.
I'm just saying we lost more helldivers in 9 months than every human war every recorded combined.
JUST Malevelon Creek outpaced Vietnam by 5 million.
Humanity by the end of the Himan-Covenant war likely losts tens of billions of people. Reach had a death toll of between 650 million to over a billion deaths.
I think you're only mentioning the equipment on HD2 and forgetting the equipment vehicles used in HD1 because they all have counters, such as Tanks, two APC variations and motorcycles and we even had leaked vehicles in HD2, not to mention fortifications and while we don't see it some ships may have shielding
This video is proof we need the Xbox players to join the fight
Helldivers seem very reliant on orbital supremacy, if they can get that then yes. Helldivers wield more power than even the most experience Spartan, but have a fraction of the lifespan.
@dotmadhack life expectancy is different than life span, the life span of a gunner in Vietnam is about like 2 seconds 💀. So not only do Helldivers face worse odds than that but they have double the life expectancy than the U.S did in Vietnam
I actually agree for the most part, however, there is also the chance that super earth either reverse engineers or just steals covenant weaponry (don't know much about covenant weaponry so feel free to tell me if there is something wrong) I also think it would have a new type of effect when your in covenant space or if the covenant are invading, (please check Bad Timing - Helldivers 2 to see what the effects would be) it would probably be another thing like the automatons, helldivers push them out the first time, they come back with greater force and then it becomes an absolute clusterfuck, and since the illuminate aren't here yet there is also that, that the helldivers must worry about to when they come back, so it would be a war on 4 fronts, so not great, but also the illuminate, covenant, automatons, and terminids would be fighting each other so there is that we must take into account, so probably just a stalemate if I am to be honest.
Here before the incident
@belbekstrullour4996 as cool as the 4 front thing is i believe this is a hypothetical 1v1 covenant vs super earth not counting the other factions on either side. Also gotta count the whole seaf navy as helldiver super destroyers don't engage in navy combat at all. Plus because of their FTL capabilities they can instantly spawn over whoever ot whatever they want to destroy
@@Tengu-Atlas didn't wanna bring anything in that we don't fully know about, cause it is impossible to calculate that.
About the whole stealing tech stuff, the covenant are very well versed in that. The covenant only had one jackal shield be reverse engineered in the human covenant war. Once the covenant see how good the FTL drives are, I’m sure they’d snag some for themselves, the only reason they never did in the human covenant war was because they didn’t have to, as they had better tech than the humans, which makes the covenant verses super earth much more contested. Not to mention their plasma cannons and glassing beams thst can put rounds clean into super earth cruisers and destroyers. And not to mention that the covenant’s elite forces can eliminate a whole spartan team, much more trained and equipped compared to the helldivers. So I’m personally going to say that this is much more nuanced than people may think
Also, I thought were taking about just the covenant vs super earth, no fighting between bots and hingeheads
I think Super Earth would handle the covenant much better than the UNSC simply because they have the numbers and are already used to fighting galactic spanning wars with aliens where as the UNSC was already crippled from internal strife and was in no state to fight the covenant when they arrived
Stalemate leading into a battle of attrition favoring the covenant sounds like the most likely scenario
But the Super earth has like 100+ years of helldivers frozen.
It is quite possible that super earth has an near infinite supply of military resources.
I didn't consider this, but then we're facing off two effectively infinite armies. I still think the covenant would have a long term advantage since they'll be attacking and most of their major facilities are space based not planetside
@@somestupidsongbird8619wdym? So what if they’re not planet based. The unsc were gonna launch troopers at a ship. Super earth can make a few modifications and HDers are going right on those things.
There's almost no way to beat super earth in a drawn out battle lol. That's literally how super earth wins. They just throw shit at the enemy until they win because they have the resources to do so.
Don’t forget how fast super earth can reverse engineer enemy resources as well and a lot of what covenant use aren’t even that advanced for super earth as well Shielding already exist and mass produce Plasma and energy base weapon are also a staple for super earth. A perk of being a live service game if that we always get a new toy so new tech as time go by hope Halo find their own footing again soon love the original trilogy.
Short answer: no
Long answer: Noooooo
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yessssssss
I think Helldivers as a whole, aren't quite as strong as the strongest units that Earth can put out in the Halo universe. MJOLNIR is just top dog; super soldiers, in super soldier armor, primed and raised and trained and geared to fight for the future of an entire planet and all of its people. SPARTANs are, at least at the top level, legendary... But so legendary that they had problems, took a long time to create, and eventually had to be curved out. Now future generations of the armor and the soldier types brought that back around a bit, but truth be told Earth was always on the losing end, and as many sources have stated time and again, that's pretty much including roughly equal footing on the ground. In space combat, the Covenant just wins.
SPARTANs are not expendable, but as a corollary to that, they also just don't die... often. At first. I mean, as a rule, they're not supposed to... Look leave me alone okay, mistakes were made.
With all that said. With all that said, Helldivers get the job done. You're looking at an elite fighting force similarly trained and conditioned and raised and brainwashed to fighting, but if anything more zealously, more fervently. Willing yes, but also in many cases expecting to die.
So you have two things to consider; first, a ground force many many many times what Earth in the Halo universe had on offer, the SEAF is a massive force full of millions of people, on dozens of planets if not more across a small galaxy of stars and planets and systems. The game can't really show you the full breadth of this, and from a gameplay perspective most of what will ever see is the inside of one ship and four people getting shot out of it. But to believe that's all there is would be a mistake.
Super Earth is a colossal mega force, a massive unknowable almost Lovecraftian society full of countless billions of people with untold resources. This is a primarily militaristic group of people somewhere between what halo could bring to the table, and what you would find on the far end of the human scale and something like Warhammer 40,000. Exactly how many, we can't say, but even these loose numbers you talk about in the video, exactly how many people are playing the game for now and the resources they have access to, you're looking at what would be the equivalent of trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars spent on individual cruisers, space capable craft, ground capable assault vehicles, hundreds of weapons, armor systems, scientific developments and advancements, across the board research and more, all on a ready as needed delivery system fired via payload from space.
Make no mistake, there is a war, but there was another war before this one and these games go out of their way to make you not quite sure that humanity is actually under any kind of threat. The bugs and bots in both fights so far seem to be mostly created by us, to use or exploit or as the product of using a exploiting other things, and while that can't be said of the illuminate, that faction is going to be the closest we have to a Covenant in the game. And they already lost once.
I think the raw number of forces Super Earth can bring to bear makes them far out class the Covenant on the ground fight, but without numbers or designs are overall capabilities on what the larger SEAF forces can do and what spaceships they will bring to the fight, it's difficult to say exactly how effective they would be overall, much less in space.
But if it helps, keep in mind that the Super Earth forces do have access to energy weapons. And you also have to imagine a system where they could somehow dive onto enemy ships. I'm not saying this would happen or that it's a guaranteed win, but you know if there is any way past big Covenant ship shields, the first thing that's super Earth is going to try sending under that is a bunch of hellpods, and personally whichever side wins I am just hoping that Sony gives up the ghosts one of these days, and let's the game get on to Xbox so we can actually have that crossover happen.
Here are my two cents:
Super Earth would decimate the covenant, but only if it were a matter of survival.
Super Earth is more than capable of single-handedly wiping out both the Automatons and Terminids; no Helldivers needed. The shipmaster herself says that each super destroyer carries enough ordinance to level a small moon. So if the SEAF Navy wanted to, they could just glass every occupied planet and be home in time for dinner. Now enter the Covenant fleet. Super Destroyers are primarily built for fire support, but they can would likely suffice for ship to ship combat as well. To take out a covenant cruiser, destroyers could use the rail cannon and orbital laser to disable the shields. From there, nuclear and conventional weapons can do the rest. Once space superiority is established, Helldivers should have no problem taking care of covenant forces on the surface.
Now you may be asking why there is no swift, decisive victory over the Automotons and Termininds. It’s because when citizens are faced with existential threats, they empower their government and overlook morally questionable action, which is why the Super Earth government artificially prolongs conflict. If the SEAF ran out of bots and bugs to kill, they would need to spend more resources suppressing dissent and questioning from the public. Speaking of resources, no bugs = no cheap E-710. That, and saturating planets with nukes would render them inhospitable, which would be detrimental since Super-Earth thrives on ruthless expansionism.
In short: Super Earth can win a war against the covenant if they had to, but top brass and politicians would probably prolong the fight for political and economic gain
Super Destroyers aren’t the only ships Super Earth has. We never see them but they are mentioned.
So I have mixed feelings about Halo being claimed as one of the best franchises of all time.
I was a MEGA Halo fan. I had books, I had all the games, I had comics, I had apparel. I grew up with this series.
But it DID NOT grow up with me. Halo died after Reach. Any other opinion is just WRONG. NOTHING 343 did was of any value at all. It was hogwash abysmal shit.
I won't focus in on that too hard, I just wanted to state as much so I could really tear into this topic.
It is stated within the Halo lore that the UNSC were hopelessly out-matched by The Covenant. Yet in spite of this, they won the Human Covenant war. A lot of fans would attribute this victory to all of the in fighting that was going on during the war effort, but that's the lowest hanging fruit in my opinion. The Spartans were the saving grace of the UNSC. They were DOMINANT in most of their showings. They could turn the tide of a fight in an instant. The UNSC never had to win any of the small battles. They only needed to win big KEY important battles. Which they did.
The same could be said for the Helldivers. The devs would tell us that we play as fodder foot soldiers who are no more capable than Storm Troopers from Star Wars. But I beg to differ.
On the contrary, Helldivers have been fighting Terminids, Cyborgs, & Illuminate for HUNDREDS of years. And not only did they fight all three of these factions simultaneously, but they also obliterated The Illuminate, driving them to near extinction. This video is CRITICALLY underestimating the firepower of the Helldivers. The UNSC are CHUMPS in comparison... They struggled with the full might of ONE faction (albeit that faction had multiple species within it.) Helldivers aren't struggling against THREE major factions pushing back against them.
For direct comparison, The heavy armor BY ITSELF that Divers typically wear against Automaton forces can occasionally tank a cannon turret's missile. And this isn't even taking into account the explosive resistant types, OR the Shield Backpack (which can absorb a 500kg bomb detonation.) So already the Helldivers are VASTLY more durable than any standard UNSC infantry (except for Spartans.) If Spartans are the circus performers of the military, then Helldivers are the slower moving juggernauts. The best of them (myself included) bring HEAVY experimental tech onto the battlefield which could wreak havoc on Covenant forces. Take the "Arc Thrower" for example... This thing fires LIGHTNING at its targets. This projectile is so nasty, in can briefly shutdown your central nervous system and paralyze you. It commonly freezes heavy Automaton Hulks in place, while also stun locking Terminid Behemoth Chargers. While it may not 1 shot anything in the Covenant sporting an Energy Shield, it's DEFINITELY tearing through it with that first shot, & then doing MASSIVE damage with the 2nd.
And let's be real here.... The ArcThrower is pretty slept on, because in the words of the community; "There are better tools that do its job faster." And that is 100% true. The Spear is another very heavy weapon which would eliminate ALL of the Covenant vehicles on the board (except for the Scarab) in likely ONE SHOT. There's no way anyone can walk into this debate and say; "Oh the Covenant have an obvious vehicular advantage." LOL noooooo they really don't. The Helldivers have so many tools to absolutely MELT these vehicles, and The Covenant have nothing to counter that! Let me remind skeptics ONE MORE TIME.... Helldivers have been fighting with Illuminate for HUNDREDS of years, and they WON! The Illuminate have energy shields comparable to The Covenant, & where are they now? Hmm? It also states in "Halo; The Fall of Reach" that orbital Railcannons were very effective against Covenant cruisers. And which weapon just so happens to be a staple of the Helldivers arsenal again? OH THAT'S RIGHT, THE ORBITAL RAILCANNON! The Helldivers also have portable Railgun rifles. So in what half functioning brain IQ universe do the Covenant actually stand a chance?
Helldivers are ALSO very good at reverse engineering weaponry that they find. Hence why they have so much experimental weaponry like the Plas 1 Scorcher, The Scythe, The Dagger, or The Laser Cannon. They can deploy sentries, land mines, mechs, vehicles, all in a matter of SECONDS. A ground battle IS NOT EVEN CLOSE (((OBJECTIVELY.))) The only hope The Covenant has is in space. I would also argue that even that is very very debatable. The Covenant glass planets......... CUTE..... The Helldivers IMPLODE THEM and convert them into black holes! And this is all pre-dating the construction of the TCS, which will likely quadruple the firepower of the current arsenal. But all be generous here and say that The Covenant could likely stalemate Super Earth in space combat, but on the ground.............. NOT A CHANCE! It's just no shot! Everyone seems to forget how whole armies of the UNSC were deployed to counter The Covenant. Some of the squads going in were comprised of all Spartans. Helldivers only ever deploy with a squad of 4, and again for the final time...... THEY FOUGHT THREE FACTIONS FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS AND WON!!! As powerful as The Covenant are...... I'm sorry Halo fans (as a Halo fan, I have to tell you...) The Covenant takes the L on this one.
Abysmal take
@@VeryScarySmileabysmal reply
@@MurakumoVance
Also don't forget the DSS, The Democratic Space Station.
Armed with thousands of Orbital Railcannons and Fitted with thousands of Eagle Aircraft!
Super earth would fucking steamroll the covenants it’s not even a question. Helldivers alone would solo them and that’s only their special forces. And there’s billions of them.
btw you are counting only the super destroyer and the helldivers but Super earth has wayy more manpower considering the SEAF aswell and even bigger ships and with even more firepowers then a super destroyer, Super destroyers are buil for fire support not naval combat
General Brasch watching in horror as a single brute with room temperature iq completely embarrassing entire helldiver squads without breaking a sweat
Send in General Brasch and John Helldiver and call it a day
i think super earth would likely adapt quickly to the air superiority problem. to be fair, the helldivers, are really only the shocktroops of superearth, their navy, and military is unknown, so this might be a very equal footting war. i would imagine, that their navy and army are larger than the helldivers corp.
But Helldiver operations are absolutely critical to SEAF success.