That paper the amp is wrapped in hits me right in the nostalgia when I bought my punch 100ix for over 400 bucks! Took me many hours working for 4.25 and then 5.50 an hour to get that bad boy! Loved it. Sold it in the late 90s.
Me too! I bought an original Punch 100 DSM (no "ix") brand new in 1993 and I still have it. It finally gave out about 12 yrs ago but I refuse to part with it. 😂
HEH, Car toys had an even and a sale. Rockford was there and had reburb 200ix for 200 bucks,.full warranty. I bought 2. One had broken feet so I sent it back and a week later I had a new one. I went to install and the second amp had the threads stripped out so I sent that bacvk and they sent me another new one. 2 weeks later I got a call that my new amp came in,. I was like "Okay" then a few weeks later I got another call that my new amp was in come get it....I traded them for a 78 malibu..
Yea, I was thinking exactly the same thing.. These caps are almost 25 years old, they lost the capacity to give that extra little oomph to be the dynamic power house it probably once used to be.
@@BenDeSwert666 ...at 25 plus years old, this amp exceeded all specs. Lets see one of those Chinese "Down for Sound " 25 years from now, or any of RF current Chinese line up in a quarter century....Big D will be pushing 80 with his D'Amore and a cane ...probably a hearing aid
I would love to see a review of the Power 50x2. This was the "cheater" tombstone amp from this time period and intended to compete with the Orion 225. The paint on these was more of a silver/gray and supposedly had ceramic added for better heat dissipation. I had 5 of the Power 50x2's in an Astro van on 12 Punch 15's with another 4 Power 50x2's running a pair of MB Quart 1" tweeters, 2 X 6.5" Quart mids, and 2 X 8" Quart mid basses in each front door. I was ROCKIN' in 1997!!
I've always preferred a 200x2 over a 500m or one of the "mono" amps any day. Only draw back to the two channel amps and running a PSD-1 is you can only run one PSD-1 to a amp. The mono block amps of that era required an adapter to run two amps to one PSD-1. I plan on running six 200x2 amps in my install for sub amps and own five of the PSD-1 units. Still need to find one more. I want to say I have three quick vids on the PSD-1 on my channel? One had the audio removed from RUclips unfortunately.
i remember drooling over these so hard when i first got into audio deeply enough to start looking at the basshead world. these things and some of the sexy soundstreams.
I had many fosgate punch series in the 90s and early 00s. Great stuff. Eclipse was another brand I loved. Had a massive 5 channel that just plain kicked ass. Never went back to multiple amps after that.
You should try the test in "Audiophile" mode. With the x cards removed. If you read in manual i think it states this. Thanks for the old school videos! Trans-Nova amps are my favorite SQ ever 👌💯
My current go-to home setup is a Hafler Trans-Nova (same basic circuit design as the Rockford Fosgate Punch amps) pro amp driving a pair of first generation B&W 802s. I've recently found a match for my first Trans-Nova, the plan is to rehab both of them and run them in bridged mono. They're among the best-sounding, and most budget-friendly for their quality, solid-state amps I've found.
Being from new Orleans. Rockford fosgate and alpine pretty much ruled the land. I wish I would have kept all the Rockford amps I had from that era. I do still have a punch 250.2 Darth Vader series lol on (6) 6.5 skar evl subs at 2.66 mono. Still rocking it
Back in early 90s a buddy had a hatchback with MTX 12" x 2 box and 2 Rockford Punch 45s. He originally had 1 45, and it was pretty loud. There were never any measurements. Then he got another 45 and ran each 12 on each amp bridged. It definitely made a difference with the 2nd amp, but it absolutely was loud. I remember after one night finding blood on a q-tip cleaning out my ears. I don't know 100% it was from cruising around in his car but damn, it was loud and sounded good!
man them punch 45's were on the other side of the state as well in lake charles pushin all kinds of subs from 8's to 18's . there was a mini truck club that was so specific , u needed an s-10 lowered , aftermarket wheels an alpine deck (no lie ) and subs . almost all of'em had Rockford Fosgate or JL sumptin in'em . called them selves sweet & low and even used the logo , modified slightly .
I still remember going to the local mom and pop stereo store as a teenager without any money and the sales lady (owner) pushing a hard sale of one Rockford amps on me. A lot of people don't realize that the specified power rating at the < 0.1% THD is why the power ratings were so low on these mid-late 90s amps. When the amp would be pushed under normal circumstances up to right under clipping, that's where these amps would end up sounding way more powerful than rated. The reputable manufactures had the extra power headway built in by just stating the power at 0.1 % THD instead of < 1.0% THD.
...this amp exceeded all specs...at 25 plus years old! Nothing to be disappointed about here Big D, Ill bet it sounds great on the Elacs!...I love the Old School American stuff Big D, good show Brother!
➡ Support OSS / Williston Audio Labs for early access to videos: www.patreon.com/OldSchoolStereo One Time "Tip" for Video Support: paypal.me/BigDWiz Video Index: 0:00 INTRO 1:40 PRICE AND SPECS 2:38 FEATURES 4:34 BOTTOMS UP 5:53 AMP DYNO TESTS 9:17 WHAT'S INSIDE? 10:04 TRUE DUAL MONO? 12:08 SOUND DEMO 13:25 FINAL THOUGHTS 14:10 EXTRAS *PREVIOUS VIDEOS* Video of Punch 500m Power (Power Test): ruclips.net/video/2zeLhKjK2DM/видео.html Video overview of Punch 500m Power: ruclips.net/video/zqtOTd_BYhI/видео.html 1993 Rockford Fosgate Punch 200 DSM Amp Dyno Test: ruclips.net/video/jTR0dgWNFtg/видео.html (Video Gear I Use) Camera - iPhone 13pro 1TB - amzn.to/3nCjGvc RODE Wireless Go II Microphones: amzn.to/3Q6NVHl Shure MV7 Microphone: amzn.to/3A4OICK Zoom H4n Audio Recorder: amzn.to/3BXjVsS 960 LED Panel: amzn.to/2Sxoq3S This VIDEO was EDITED with LumaFusion on an iPad Pro 12.9: iPad: amzn.to/2Ancr1W Software: goo.gl/6yvWss --------- Test Bench Equipment ------- SMD / D'Amore Engineering Amp Dyno: goo.gl/sJTcf7 XS Power D1400 Batteries - amzn.to/2BPFCKW XS Power PSC60 Charger - amzn.to/2CHGcfs Fluke 1000A AC/DC Clamp Meter: amzn.to/2Rw5WDA Handheld Dyno: amzn.to/2u2EgKV My Favorite Screwdriver Kit: amzn.to/2x0VzcE _DISCLAIMER: This video and description contains affiliate links, which means that if you purchase from one of the product links, I may receive a small commission. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases_
Yeah brother I'm a little surprised with the power levels as well ( you probably know I love this series), especially compared to the 200x2. I know you know (lol) that these were replaced with the silver 250x2 (the 500m replaced by the silver 250m). I wonder if there is any internal differences at all? I have several of the gray/silver Power Series and would gladly send them out to ya for a comparison. I would love to know if it was more than just a cosmetic change! Thanks for all you do sir!
Remember that "dual" 4ch amp "budget gem or budget bust" reviewed. It also had a similar construction to this . It just had two dual 2ch amps on one board side by side shareing one powersupply.
I still have my First Gen Rockford (1996) with the Batwings. Was rated 45wx2 and 125wx1. Was way under rated I burned up two 1000w Orion 12in Subs with that lil amp. Just amazing old school power.
Big D Whiz,It’s funny 😎You mentioned that this amplifier looks like a George Foreman Grill 😱 Because I knew the founder of Phoenix Gold Keith Peterson .I also knew the designer of The Cyclone .The only Servo Woofer .Plus he designed the Titanium Series and the Tantrum series speakers .It was a very aggressive line of speakers .His name is Dominic Bonocontri . I was good friends with him Plus Jerry Demaze who was the head of installation and technical support and custom fabrications Anyways when we saw the New Rockford Fosgate Amplifiers .We all agreed they looked like a George Foreman Grill So we were going get a Rockford Fosgate heat sink and make it into a George Foreman style grill .Then say we are “.We are Cookin with Fosgate lol Now you will probably think how will he do it ? Or could he do it ? Remember the Show Get Smart ? With Secret Agent Maxwell Smart? He had a phone in his shoe ? Well I made a functional Shoe Phone Also I mentioned 2 people at Phoenix Gold who were expert designers ,engineers and fabricators So the possibilities were unlimited Plus Phoenix Gold Hand built all there heat sinks and everything in house From start to finish They also made Crown and Carver Professional. Derek I enjoy your content.Your a honest and straight forward guy .Who loves old school car audio Who could blame you . The Old school audio had much more character ,more interesting and innovative They were hand making speakers and amplifier.Right here in the United States I actually watched my Phoenix Gold amplifiers being built Plus they modified them for me 😇
Back in '97/98 year I was doing DB drag racing. I had two of the Rockford Fosgate 250M2 one to each Rockford Fosgate Power DVC15s 4-Ohms. running one to each amp at 2-Ohms so the amp was seeing 1- ohm per Sub. With a standard ported enclosure tuned at 35 Hertz it did 154 DB using 35 Hz Tone Burst off the DB Jams Vol.2 CD. Always had to have an extra set of subs during competition. Rockford Fosgate's power DVCs of the time just would not hold up, I would melt the voice coil into the magnet. Rockford's Grand rapid facility was not ever happy when I sent the woofers in for warranty.
One thing I’ve noticed about these amps is that the smaller amps seem to be more underrated than the larger ones. For instance, a Punch 60 will put out more than double the 30Wx2 that it is rated at into 4Ω. The Punch 40 is similarly underrated. And the Punch 100 is still very underrated, but not quite as much as the 40 and 60. On the other hand, the Punch 200 is not NEARLY as underrated as the others. Yes, it puts out more than its rated power. But it’s certainly not TWICE as powerful as a Punch 100 or five times as powerful as a Punch 40 by a long shot! The same is true with the 250m2 (and the 250x2, which I have). They’re not bad amps by any stretch of the imagination. But they lack that ‘WOW’ factor in terms of greatly exceeding rated power that you see in the Punch 40, 60, 100, or even the Power 50x2.
I had a little Punch 40 on a set of Fosgate Punch Series 1 12's back in the day....probably 1997 or so. Had it on 2 ohm mono and it bumped pretty hard for what it was, but it would occasionally overload and cut power. Still way better than the LA Sound amp I got on employee discount from Best Buy, lmao. Ended up returning it and running the Punch again.
I have one of those in my storage unit. Pulled it out of my Ford Exploder when I got rid of it last year. It happily resided there for the better part of two decades powering the front doors mid/tweets. I'll probably put it up for sale here before to long. It even has the end caps. I have a few old school amps that will likely end up on E-bay sooner then later. Like an ORION XTRPRO 2400 in great condition pulled from the same Exploder. Pretty rare amp as it was only in production for one year I believe. Bumped hard. I have been a big ORION fan for years. I'm building a system for my Tundra right now and it will be my first system that I am not using ORION amps. Thought I'd give Down4Sound a try.
These silly crossover modules from Kicker and Rockford back in the day were a big turn-off for me on my very limited budget. Alpine had 80hz LP/HP selectable crossover on their later 35XX amps in the very early '90s and fully adjustable crossovers in their first-gen V12 amps in '95, which is why I went with an Alpine MRV-F400 for my first amp. I still have it today! 😀👍
Same here. I'm not paying extra to buy modules for different settings when I could just buy an amp with knobs & switches that I can set to whatever I want. I used Phoenix Gold & Alpine instead (and JL when the Slash series came out).
RF made great stuff. But they did appear a bit crude compared to Zapco, Soundstream, PPI and Orion. But I installed many RF amps, always first rate products.
I know you're not supposed to paint these amps, but I am putting together an old school system with a 200ix, a 160x4, a 60dsm, and a couple of links. My 200ix and one of my links looks rough. What are the best options to refinish these. Love your channel big D. It was my first subscription. North Carolina for the win. I'm from craven county and we've been die hard Rockford fans since waaaaay back.
The Symmetry EPX2 had balanced inputs as well, and the very rare RF 8250 head unit had balanced outputs. Interesting that the EXP2 didn't have balanced out to go all the way to the amps.
So pissed I almost bought the Clarion ADSL system. Alpine DSP was superior and eventually had 80% of the processing power packed into head units along with Kenwood and everyone else.
Hey Big D. Regarding the X-Cards, I worked at a Rockford shop back in the day and they sent me to an RTTI training seminar and they said you could replace the resistors in the X-Cards ( or buy a blank one and put resistors in it) and depending on the resistor values, you would turn that crossover into a subsonic filter at a given frequency for an added 3,6 or 12db bump. Did you know anything about that? I never knew of anyone that did it but was curious to try it.
Question is Rockford back then was the only one with that clip light statues with that module if so bad ass :) and yes we would like to see that connected to this amp thanks.
10:03 (talking about the electronics inside) nicely built and quality components, but the long flying wires coming out of that trafo are making my heart scream in EMI...
@@wal ow it may interfere with other electronics (remember the crazy pixels on the dyno's display when testing some class D amps?) and it may interfere with sound quality. Actually none of these has happened, but I just wanted to point it out
Nice Video👍👍👍 You also have the original box. On the bottom you should see the powercube dynamic ratings printed down to 1 ohm per channel. Would be interesting to know what is printed there. The powercube simulates inductance and capacitance to simulate a speaker which is not a fixed load like our dyno-run-power resistors. These powercube tests were made with 1kHz bursts. This will result in higher numbers. I dynoed a lot of 25- 30year old fosgates. i never had a problem with aged caps. replace them when they start to get bumpy. would be very nice if you can take the time to post the powercube wattage 👍👍👍
Hi it’s not on the box anywhere but I have the 1995 RTTI training manual and it’s in there. Shoot me an email WillistonAudio (at) gmail and I’ll send you a scan of the page
This is right at the time i got into my addiction to bass. I had a soundstream Rubicon 700.2 I have never seen dyno testing of this model but I had 3 JL audio 10w6's and it ran them really good In my 88 civic hatchback. I miss that car to this day!
Running one of these Soundstream 15“ in my Studio with 2x300 W Ramsa and in my living room a RF Punch 300S fed from a MUNDORF 120 Ampere unit for my open baffle 15“ Focal … deep, mighty and superdry … so much fun 30 years later 😊
I disagree on your dual mono perspective. Yes there is one transformer core but the manufacturer can wind it however they want. It's clearly two completely separate primary and secondary windings sharing a common core. I'd call that a true dual power supply, assuming the core is robust enough to handle the flux from both magnetic fields simultaneously without saturating. Since this is an RF product I'd guess they did build that toroid beefy enough to handle both sets of windings without interference between the two. Awesome amp and insane power output considering it's physical size it isn't huge
Channel 2 on your dyno in every video seems to be lower. Can you do a bridge test on ch1 and ch2 with the same amp or turn around channels and retest the same amp?
There were some damned good speakers available in those days, even by today's standards - the IMQ Infinty Kappas (especially if you sprung for the Emit-N tweeters - I've been looking for a single for years to replace one of mine that unfortunately had an accident), the old "Superman" logo Oz Audio stuff, anything from Eclipse, etc.
I think Rockford started having bigger dynamic numbers when they went to using class D designs. I also imagine a refresh of the caps and components in this 250m2 might help the dynamic numbers. At almost 30 years old now, those internals could use a refresh.
no. the 200ix is a dynamic monster. the dyno here is made with 40hz which gives lower numbers. do it again with 1kHz and lets see again. the dynamic power makes the amp more musical.
yeeeeeaaaars ago I had this amp when I was first learning about car audio and could not for the life of me figure out why it made my subs sound like crap. Way back I had two SVC 4ohm Pioneer IMPP 12" each rated at 300W...I wired them in parallel and bridged the amp. I eventually figured it was just too much amp...now seeing this reminds me of that and confirms that I was right....by about 50% per sub too much lol. Ah, to be young and dumb.
When I was first getting into higher end car audio, I had a good friend that I helped do installs. He had a 12" green IMQ Infinty sub sitting around that he sold to me for next to nothing because he couldn't get it to sound right. I downloaded the manual (way back in the early days of such things being online) and started reading through the manual and the specs - he'd been trying to run it in a huge ported box, when Infinity recommended a sealed box that was so small that the sub would barely fit in it. I ran off to my dad's wood shop with some MDF, whipped out a test box in the recommended volume, and it sounded amazing. I still have that sub. :D
8:12 Oh how nice. It's always nice to notice what kind of lifestyle people had. *The difference between an O and a Zero can make a Dead Man or a Hero* The first thing a person must stop saying immediately as soon as he is in military service. The Instructors make you repeat 100 times on the Radio until he asks you if you've ever been in math class.
Rummaging through my neighborhood shadetree mechanics misc parts pile, I came across an old 2ch CRAIG amp. Fairly low power BUT, looking inside there were 2 discrete transformers for each channel.... dual mono.
This was one of my first real quality amps. I always ran cheap ole Pyramid amps which always lied on the power like if you wanted a 500 watt amp you needed to buy a 1,000 and possibly get close to 500 lol I had this amp and a 10" kicker comp and it sounded great.
if it's rated 450 and doing 600 or better... .... that's still disappointing ? I thought that's considered an under rated amp ? which Fosgate amp has the yeeee boi dynamic headroom ? good to know Shawn is the go to for Fosgate. I see his name in the thank you list from videos a decade old I have a power 750s that needs some help.
@@wal I also have the punch 40i and an old school SENTREK SPA 185w full stereo amplifier I’ve had them hooked up for years and have no problems with the😃
Any chance you could review soke Pheonix Gold Octain R amps from the early 2000's? I'd love to see what they do, I assume they were available in the US as well as the UK but they were a cheap version of phoenix gold with optional neon lighting. I wonder if they were just junk or reasonable cheap amps, could make a good video and if they are any good an easy to find budget used amp. I think I had the 4:0.2 and ran a 12" Octain sub with it, I remember being happy with it back then.
Awesome, But keep the heat sink covers on !! Very necessary in the application ! 40 year R/F dealer, these were bulletproof as long as you kept the cover/heatsink installed......(Customer..."But I didn't have room")
I had 1 of these beautiful amps back in like 2008 and it was powerful and very clean. Could tell the difference after I swapped it out for a ssl amp. Worst mistake. Had it pushing a second gen audiobahn immortal 15 awis15p
All I know is the Punch 60 that I bought around 92 motivated the 2 Rockford Audiophile 12’s in the trunk of my Mustang very well. Years later the amp failed and I was able to send it back in for a one-time free repair. Blew it again years later but wished I would have kept it as I probably could have repaired it myself. Killer series of amps though and much better than the junk they released 10 or 15 years later at Best Buy. Those were garbage.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY we called those the bar b q grill the next-gen we called the batman Big d wussup with a 500m retest on your new equipment I'm satisfied with mono 2ohm test cause that what we used them for if they fell in our hands i wish i had known that I could have run one to my jbl gti 12s back in the day instead of two punch 200s thanks for the test big d
Worked summers at a car audio shop back in the day we would have people come into the shop. They would ask to see the birth certificate of these Rockford Fosgate amps they would buy the one that had the most watts.
Big D I have a couple of old school rockford amps 800@2 and 250a|| I need end caps any idea where I can find some and replace some worn out gain controls?
Ok so I like was half doing something and listening to your awesome video, but am I confused? Is that a car Amp running home speakers? So the speakers are 8ohm, but the Amp is only 4ohm, that causes problems. Please let me know so I don't have to watch the video again; to find out, I'm lazy...
The Elac home speakers are 6 ohm and provide very accurate response so I use them for the sound demos even tho you’ll never hear what I hear due to compression and such.
That paper the amp is wrapped in hits me right in the nostalgia when I bought my punch 100ix for over 400 bucks! Took me many hours working for 4.25 and then 5.50 an hour to get that bad boy! Loved it. Sold it in the late 90s.
Yeah man it was so cool they did that
Me too! I bought an original Punch 100 DSM (no "ix") brand new in 1993 and I still have it. It finally gave out about 12 yrs ago but I refuse to part with it. 😂
I know exactly what you mean. Love those old Rockfords.
@Carl_Jr Consider getting it repaired. These old amps are becoming quite valuable these days, and are definitely worth repairing.
HEH, Car toys had an even and a sale. Rockford was there and had reburb 200ix for 200 bucks,.full warranty. I bought 2. One had broken feet so I sent it back and a week later I had a new one. I went to install and the second amp had the threads stripped out so I sent that bacvk and they sent me another new one. 2 weeks later I got a call that my new amp came in,. I was like "Okay" then a few weeks later I got another call that my new amp was in come get it....I traded them for a 78 malibu..
Great blast from the past. My favorite series of Rockford amplifiers
Awe Jeah!
The dynamic burst may be affected by the caps showing their age and not performing like they normally would. Even Nichicon caps don't last forever.
Yea, I was thinking exactly the same thing.. These caps are almost 25 years old, they lost the capacity to give that extra little oomph to be the dynamic power house it probably once used to be.
@@BenDeSwert666 ...at 25 plus years old, this amp exceeded all specs. Lets see one of those Chinese "Down for Sound " 25 years from now, or any of RF current Chinese line up in a quarter century....Big D will be pushing 80 with his D'Amore and a cane ...probably a hearing aid
That’s funny!
@@wal yer the man big D, appreciate you Brother✌️🇺🇸💪🎶
@@raymo6795 those d4s class ab' are beauties. i dont really know much about anything, but the more you abuse equipment the faster it wears out.
I would love to see a review of the Power 50x2. This was the "cheater" tombstone amp from this time period and intended to compete with the Orion 225. The paint on these was more of a silver/gray and supposedly had ceramic added for better heat dissipation. I had 5 of the Power 50x2's in an Astro van on 12 Punch 15's with another 4 Power 50x2's running a pair of MB Quart 1" tweeters, 2 X 6.5" Quart mids, and 2 X 8" Quart mid basses in each front door. I was ROCKIN' in 1997!!
thanks for the suggestion!
End of an era!
And I thought I was the only one who thought these amps looked like tombstones (especially with just one endcap)!
I've always preferred a 200x2 over a 500m or one of the "mono" amps any day. Only draw back to the two channel amps and running a PSD-1 is you can only run one PSD-1 to a amp. The mono block amps of that era required an adapter to run two amps to one PSD-1. I plan on running six 200x2 amps in my install for sub amps and own five of the PSD-1 units. Still need to find one more. I want to say I have three quick vids on the PSD-1 on my channel? One had the audio removed from RUclips unfortunately.
i remember drooling over these so hard when i first got into audio deeply enough to start looking at the basshead world. these things and some of the sexy soundstreams.
I had many fosgate punch series in the 90s and early 00s. Great stuff. Eclipse was another brand I loved. Had a massive 5 channel that just plain kicked ass. Never went back to multiple amps after that.
You should try the test in "Audiophile" mode. With the x cards removed. If you read in manual i think it states this. Thanks for the old school videos!
Trans-Nova amps are my favorite SQ ever 👌💯
My current go-to home setup is a Hafler Trans-Nova (same basic circuit design as the Rockford Fosgate Punch amps) pro amp driving a pair of first generation B&W 802s. I've recently found a match for my first Trans-Nova, the plan is to rehab both of them and run them in bridged mono. They're among the best-sounding, and most budget-friendly for their quality, solid-state amps I've found.
Nothing better than a Rockford amp. Performance wise ans see which of these new ones are still working in 30 to 40 years like Rockford does
Thx 4 this dyno.... i have this bad boy still in my ride....💪 and two punch 100....all that since 1995.... i love these oldschool RF amps...🥳🤩
Being from new Orleans. Rockford fosgate and alpine pretty much ruled the land. I wish I would have kept all the Rockford amps I had from that era. I do still have a punch 250.2 Darth Vader series lol on (6) 6.5 skar evl subs at 2.66 mono. Still rocking it
Sweet!
Actually I've been looking for a epx2 from that era. I had two and let them go. I'd love to find one with the e28.
Sooo much stuff I had that I wish I still.. I would never have thought all the legacy brands would be built in China 20 years ago….good thing for eBay
Back in early 90s a buddy had a hatchback with MTX 12" x 2 box and 2 Rockford Punch 45s. He originally had 1 45, and it was pretty loud. There were never any measurements. Then he got another 45 and ran each 12 on each amp bridged. It definitely made a difference with the 2nd amp, but it absolutely was loud. I remember after one night finding blood on a q-tip cleaning out my ears. I don't know 100% it was from cruising around in his car but damn, it was loud and sounded good!
man them punch 45's were on the other side of the state as well in lake charles pushin all kinds of subs from 8's to 18's . there was a mini truck club that was so specific , u needed an s-10 lowered , aftermarket wheels an alpine deck (no lie ) and subs . almost all of'em had Rockford Fosgate or JL sumptin in'em . called them selves sweet & low and even used the logo , modified slightly .
I still remember going to the local mom and pop stereo store as a teenager without any money and the sales lady (owner) pushing a hard sale of one Rockford amps on me. A lot of people don't realize that the specified power rating at the < 0.1% THD is why the power ratings were so low on these mid-late 90s amps. When the amp would be pushed under normal circumstances up to right under clipping, that's where these amps would end up sounding way more powerful than rated. The reputable manufactures had the extra power headway built in by just stating the power at 0.1 % THD instead of < 1.0% THD.
Man, I’ve been waiting for a LOOONG time for this video!
...this amp exceeded all specs...at 25 plus years old! Nothing to be disappointed about here Big D, Ill bet it sounds great on the Elacs!...I love the Old School American stuff Big D, good show Brother!
I was spoiled by the Punch 200 DSM
I ran 4 12’s orion xtr with my punch 60. Sounded so good. 20hz shook the whole car like an earthquake. Ran then in series into parallel
➡ Support OSS / Williston Audio Labs for early access to videos: www.patreon.com/OldSchoolStereo
One Time "Tip" for Video Support: paypal.me/BigDWiz
Video Index:
0:00 INTRO
1:40 PRICE AND SPECS
2:38 FEATURES
4:34 BOTTOMS UP
5:53 AMP DYNO TESTS
9:17 WHAT'S INSIDE?
10:04 TRUE DUAL MONO?
12:08 SOUND DEMO
13:25 FINAL THOUGHTS
14:10 EXTRAS
*PREVIOUS VIDEOS*
Video of Punch 500m Power (Power Test): ruclips.net/video/2zeLhKjK2DM/видео.html
Video overview of Punch 500m Power: ruclips.net/video/zqtOTd_BYhI/видео.html
1993 Rockford Fosgate Punch 200 DSM Amp Dyno Test: ruclips.net/video/jTR0dgWNFtg/видео.html
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This VIDEO was EDITED with LumaFusion on an iPad Pro 12.9:
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--------- Test Bench Equipment -------
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Totally forgot about the crossovers being like that :) Great find, awesome vid.
Yeah brother I'm a little surprised with the power levels as well ( you probably know I love this series), especially compared to the 200x2.
I know you know (lol) that these were replaced with the silver 250x2 (the 500m replaced by the silver 250m). I wonder if there is any internal differences at all?
I have several of the gray/silver Power Series and would gladly send them out to ya for a comparison.
I would love to know if it was more than just a cosmetic change!
Thanks for all you do sir!
Oh Nice!! I used to own a Punch 200 bought new back in 1994. Always been a Rockford Fosgate fan
Remember that "dual" 4ch amp "budget gem or budget bust" reviewed. It also had a similar construction to this . It just had two dual 2ch amps on one board side by side shareing one powersupply.
Don't you think the two coils might share a common toroid core? similar to capacitors that share the same package! love the video!
Hi Tom I’m making an update vid and will shed some light on this 🧐
I have a nonfunctional Punch 60, and Punch 100, both with end caps. 😁
Hoping to have them repaired some day.
yeah! classic Rockford!
👌😬👍
Damn, I love this channel! Videos like this are why.
Thanks brother ✌️
I def want to see the status delio you displayed. It just looks cool. It should be included with the amp for that much $. Very cool video as always.
Search PSD-1 or Punch Status Display on here and you can see a few videos of one in action to hold you over till he uploads :)
@@kaknballz excellent, that's kind of you thank you
Those amps are awesome. Probably the best fosgate ever made.
Awesome little amp. Should have hooked up that little led visual indicator bar they have too. Keep em coming man.
I still have my First Gen Rockford (1996) with the Batwings. Was rated 45wx2 and 125wx1. Was way under rated I burned up two 1000w Orion 12in Subs with that lil amp. Just amazing old school power.
Love those amps. Best system I had was 2 500m and 2 soundstream spl 160s
Oh man! SPL160's! Those came out after the CV Strokers when people realized listening to sinusoidal bursts was lame.
Love the Rockford grill amps...
Big D Whiz,It’s funny 😎You mentioned that this amplifier looks like a George Foreman Grill 😱
Because I knew the founder of Phoenix Gold Keith Peterson .I also knew the designer of The Cyclone .The only Servo Woofer .Plus he designed the Titanium Series and the Tantrum series speakers .It was a very aggressive line of speakers .His name is Dominic Bonocontri .
I was good friends with him
Plus Jerry Demaze who was the head of installation and technical support and custom fabrications
Anyways when we saw the New Rockford Fosgate Amplifiers .We all agreed they looked like a George Foreman Grill
So we were going get a Rockford Fosgate heat sink and make it into a George Foreman style grill .Then say we are “.We are Cookin with Fosgate lol
Now you will probably think how will he do it ? Or could he do it ?
Remember the Show Get Smart ? With Secret Agent Maxwell Smart?
He had a phone in his shoe ?
Well I made a functional Shoe Phone
Also I mentioned 2 people at Phoenix Gold who were expert designers ,engineers and fabricators
So the possibilities were unlimited
Plus Phoenix Gold Hand built all there heat sinks and everything in house
From start to finish
They also made Crown and Carver Professional.
Derek I enjoy your content.Your a honest and straight forward guy .Who loves old school car audio
Who could blame you .
The Old school audio had much more character ,more interesting and innovative
They were hand making speakers and amplifier.Right here in the United States
I actually watched my Phoenix Gold amplifiers being built
Plus they modified them for me 😇
Wish I still had mine , I was running 4 of them , I miss them 😪 truly a awesome amp, the whole series really
Love the design of the old RF amps. Looks very solid.
Back in '97/98 year I was doing DB drag racing. I had two of the Rockford Fosgate 250M2 one to each Rockford Fosgate Power DVC15s 4-Ohms. running one to each amp at 2-Ohms so the amp was seeing 1- ohm per Sub. With a standard ported enclosure tuned at 35 Hertz it did 154 DB using 35 Hz Tone Burst off the DB Jams Vol.2 CD. Always had to have an extra set of subs during competition. Rockford Fosgate's power DVCs of the time just would not hold up, I would melt the voice coil into the magnet. Rockford's Grand rapid facility was not ever happy when I sent the woofers in for warranty.
One thing I’ve noticed about these amps is that the smaller amps seem to be more underrated than the larger ones. For instance, a Punch 60 will put out more than double the 30Wx2 that it is rated at into 4Ω. The Punch 40 is similarly underrated. And the Punch 100 is still very underrated, but not quite as much as the 40 and 60. On the other hand, the Punch 200 is not NEARLY as underrated as the others. Yes, it puts out more than its rated power. But it’s certainly not TWICE as powerful as a Punch 100 or five times as powerful as a Punch 40 by a long shot!
The same is true with the 250m2 (and the 250x2, which I have). They’re not bad amps by any stretch of the imagination. But they lack that ‘WOW’ factor in terms of greatly exceeding rated power that you see in the Punch 40, 60, 100, or even the Power 50x2.
I had a little Punch 40 on a set of Fosgate Punch Series 1 12's back in the day....probably 1997 or so. Had it on 2 ohm mono and it bumped pretty hard for what it was, but it would occasionally overload and cut power. Still way better than the LA Sound amp I got on employee discount from Best Buy, lmao. Ended up returning it and running the Punch again.
Man those early-mid 90’s RF amps still killer amps!
I have one of those in my storage unit. Pulled it out of my Ford Exploder when I got rid of it last year. It happily resided there for the better part of two decades powering the front doors mid/tweets. I'll probably put it up for sale here before to long. It even has the end caps. I have a few old school amps that will likely end up on E-bay sooner then later. Like an ORION XTRPRO 2400 in great condition pulled from the same Exploder. Pretty rare amp as it was only in production for one year I believe. Bumped hard. I have been a big ORION fan for years. I'm building a system for my Tundra right now and it will be my first system that I am not using ORION amps. Thought I'd give Down4Sound a try.
These silly crossover modules from Kicker and Rockford back in the day were a big turn-off for me on my very limited budget. Alpine had 80hz LP/HP selectable crossover on their later 35XX amps in the very early '90s and fully adjustable crossovers in their first-gen V12 amps in '95, which is why I went with an Alpine MRV-F400 for my first amp. I still have it today! 😀👍
Same here. I'm not paying extra to buy modules for different settings when I could just buy an amp with knobs & switches that I can set to whatever I want. I used Phoenix Gold & Alpine instead (and JL when the Slash series came out).
Damn brother I still have my PPI amps pc2600 (2channeles and PC 6600 /6 channels) any any one wants let me know ahhhh 🙊🙉🙈🦘🦜😺😻😹😸🤗🤑💰💰💰💰💰
I have several older alpine amps. They are TANKS. I definitely slept on them in the 90’s. Their Japanese made stuff was very well made.
Glad to see those old school RF. Looking in good shape.
Yessir!!
Awesome to see it in action! Glad it worked!
Yessir!
ohhhhh what a treat for today.....always wanted to know what they actuall did....thanks!!!!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Had a Punch 40 and Punch 100 and a couple of 12” Kickers back in the day. Excellent sounding system.
Awesome 👏
RF made great stuff. But they did appear a bit crude compared to Zapco, Soundstream, PPI and Orion. But I installed many RF amps, always first rate products.
I know you're not supposed to paint these amps, but I am putting together an old school system with a 200ix, a 160x4, a 60dsm, and a couple of links. My 200ix and one of my links looks rough. What are the best options to refinish these. Love your channel big D. It was my first subscription. North Carolina for the win. I'm from craven county and we've been die hard Rockford fans since waaaaay back.
Ahhhh back in the day when voice coils smoked like my mom and dad after payday.
Love the old school stuff brother, brings back a lot of good memories.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
You got me thinking about parting with the end caps of the amps I have. eBay, here I come! 🤣
The Symmetry EPX2 had balanced inputs as well, and the very rare RF 8250 head unit had balanced outputs. Interesting that the EXP2 didn't have balanced out to go all the way to the amps.
So pissed I almost bought the Clarion ADSL system. Alpine DSP was superior and eventually had 80% of the processing power packed into head units along with Kenwood and everyone else.
Hey Big D. Regarding the X-Cards, I worked at a Rockford shop back in the day and they sent me to an RTTI training seminar and they said you could replace the resistors in the X-Cards ( or buy a blank one and put resistors in it) and depending on the resistor values, you would turn that crossover into a subsonic filter at a given frequency for an added 3,6 or 12db bump. Did you know anything about that? I never knew of anyone that did it but was curious to try it.
Question is Rockford back then was the only one with that clip light statues with that module if so bad ass :) and yes we would like to see that connected to this amp thanks.
😬👍
I built stuff with guys at Rockford dealer and we got a pair of prototype 500m to test out. They were great amps.
Yep had 1 been a long time since i seen those crossover cards
😬👍
I remember purchasing two 650 mosfets from Mike Mineo "Brooklyns best Audio".. He shook my habd and said ..welcome to the Rockford Fosgate family"..
👌😬👍
10:03 (talking about the electronics inside) nicely built and quality components, but the long flying wires coming out of that trafo are making my heart scream in EMI...
Yeah wassup with that?
@@wal ow it may interfere with other electronics (remember the crazy pixels on the dyno's display when testing some class D amps?) and it may interfere with sound quality. Actually none of these has happened, but I just wanted to point it out
Nice Video👍👍👍
You also have the original box. On the bottom you should see the powercube dynamic ratings printed down to 1 ohm per channel. Would be interesting to know what is printed there. The powercube simulates inductance and capacitance to simulate a speaker which is not a fixed load like our dyno-run-power resistors. These powercube tests were made with 1kHz bursts. This will result in higher numbers. I dynoed a lot of 25- 30year old fosgates. i never had a problem with aged caps. replace them when they start to get bumpy.
would be very nice if you can take the time to post the powercube wattage 👍👍👍
Hi it’s not on the box anywhere but I have the 1995 RTTI training manual and it’s in there. Shoot me an email WillistonAudio (at) gmail and I’ll send you a scan of the page
@@wal Thank you very much!!!! Check out your spam folder, mail sent, its from germany 😀
@@audiokeller1975 replied! I have more to send you also. Take care.
I had the Punch 200 and the Punch 4080 with the x-cards. Loved those amps.
This is right at the time i got into my addiction to bass. I had a soundstream Rubicon 700.2 I have never seen dyno testing of this model but I had 3 JL audio 10w6's and it ran them really good In my 88 civic hatchback. I miss that car to this day!
In the former times I’ve installed mostly RF Amps and Soundstream SPL Woofers , sometimes Focal 15“ Multimagnet Polyglass 🤪
Running one of these Soundstream 15“ in my Studio with 2x300 W Ramsa and in my living room a RF Punch 300S fed from a MUNDORF 120 Ampere unit for my open baffle 15“ Focal … deep, mighty and superdry … so much fun 30 years later 😊
I disagree on your dual mono perspective. Yes there is one transformer core but the manufacturer can wind it however they want. It's clearly two completely separate primary and secondary windings sharing a common core. I'd call that a true dual power supply, assuming the core is robust enough to handle the flux from both magnetic fields simultaneously without saturating. Since this is an RF product I'd guess they did build that toroid beefy enough to handle both sets of windings without interference between the two. Awesome amp and insane power output considering it's physical size it isn't huge
Woot! I still have my Punch 4020 DSM with both endcaps. I can't let it go though. It still sounds so good,
Sweet ✌️
Best Fosgate amps..... Loving them DSMs
Channel 2 on your dyno in every video seems to be lower. Can you do a bridge test on ch1 and ch2 with the same amp or turn around channels and retest the same amp?
I i had the 500M and 250m2. loads of fun.
OLD SCHOOL FTW!
The wires back in those days real copper no aluminum. 👍🏽
For being an old amp, it does really good, even back then for the shitty speakers of the time it still did very well.
There were some damned good speakers available in those days, even by today's standards - the IMQ Infinty Kappas (especially if you sprung for the Emit-N tweeters - I've been looking for a single for years to replace one of mine that unfortunately had an accident), the old "Superman" logo Oz Audio stuff, anything from Eclipse, etc.
@@SamCogley ikr
I think Rockford started having bigger dynamic numbers when they went to using class D designs. I also imagine a refresh of the caps and components in this 250m2 might help the dynamic numbers. At almost 30 years old now, those internals could use a refresh.
no. the 200ix is a dynamic monster. the dyno here is made with 40hz which gives lower numbers. do it again with 1kHz and lets see again. the dynamic power makes the amp more musical.
My dad had the 4040 dsm rockford fosgate amplifier pushing the highs and two ten inch 🔊! How ? It’s a 4 channel! Sounded nice too !
Great video as always man!!!!!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I had this same amp on 2 earthquake 12’s in a Toyota carolla in 1999 and it was FUN. It was brigded at 2 ohms.
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yeeeeeaaaars ago I had this amp when I was first learning about car audio and could not for the life of me figure out why it made my subs sound like crap. Way back I had two SVC 4ohm Pioneer IMPP 12" each rated at 300W...I wired them in parallel and bridged the amp. I eventually figured it was just too much amp...now seeing this reminds me of that and confirms that I was right....by about 50% per sub too much lol. Ah, to be young and dumb.
We’ve all been there
When I was first getting into higher end car audio, I had a good friend that I helped do installs. He had a 12" green IMQ Infinty sub sitting around that he sold to me for next to nothing because he couldn't get it to sound right. I downloaded the manual (way back in the early days of such things being online) and started reading through the manual and the specs - he'd been trying to run it in a huge ported box, when Infinity recommended a sealed box that was so small that the sub would barely fit in it. I ran off to my dad's wood shop with some MDF, whipped out a test box in the recommended volume, and it sounded amazing. I still have that sub. :D
I miss these amps.
i hada punch 60 from about the same time- same heatsink. 30 wpc rms. the spec sheet tested it out at 600+ peak mono. it was truly beautiful
Those did 300W bridged all day. Crazy!
Nice old skool amp 💪💪💯💯
I like how they actually where measured at 12v...
I agree mid 12’s is more realistic
8:12 Oh how nice. It's always nice to notice what kind of lifestyle people had. *The difference between an O and a Zero can make a Dead Man or a Hero* The first thing a person must stop saying immediately as soon as he is in military service. The Instructors make you repeat 100 times on the Radio until he asks you if you've ever been in math class.
Good for you!
Rummaging through my neighborhood shadetree mechanics misc parts pile, I came across an old 2ch CRAIG amp. Fairly low power BUT, looking inside there were 2 discrete transformers for each channel.... dual mono.
Have you ever tested the S1 series. I used to sell them at my shop in the 90's. I still have an S 2300 and s 2600. They were a budget amp.
I had 2 pair of Rockfords White Wolf RCA cables. Had built in remote and 18 carat connections. 16' cost $200 each pair.
This was one of my first real quality amps. I always ran cheap ole Pyramid amps which always lied on the power like if you wanted a 500 watt amp you needed to buy a 1,000 and possibly get close to 500 lol I had this amp and a 10" kicker comp and it sounded great.
👌😬👍
if it's rated 450 and doing 600 or better... .... that's still disappointing ? I thought that's considered an under rated amp ? which Fosgate amp has the yeeee boi dynamic headroom ? good to know Shawn is the go to for Fosgate. I see his name in the thank you list from videos a decade old I have a power 750s that needs some help.
I have that same exact one still in use. It’s part of my garage system running a 12’’ Boston sub
Awesome 👏
@@wal I also have the punch 40i and an old school SENTREK SPA 185w full stereo amplifier I’ve had them hooked up for years and have no problems with the😃
Any chance you could review soke Pheonix Gold Octain R amps from the early 2000's? I'd love to see what they do, I assume they were available in the US as well as the UK but they were a cheap version of phoenix gold with optional neon lighting. I wonder if they were just junk or reasonable cheap amps, could make a good video and if they are any good an easy to find budget used amp. I think I had the 4:0.2 and ran a 12" Octain sub with it, I remember being happy with it back then.
Awesome, But keep the heat sink covers on !! Very necessary in the application ! 40 year R/F dealer, these were bulletproof as long as you kept the cover/heatsink installed......(Customer..."But I didn't have room")
It pains me to know how many of these were tossed or scrapped over the years
I remember the wolf no joke. It was on the wall at a local car stereo shop.
I just gave away a busted 500 watt one a few months ago. Wonder if buddy ever fixed it.
I had 1 of these beautiful amps back in like 2008 and it was powerful and very clean. Could tell the difference after I swapped it out for a ssl amp. Worst mistake. Had it pushing a second gen audiobahn immortal 15 awis15p
Time to 3d print them end caps lol
In the uk, if you had one of these....
You were the DADDY!
👌😬👍
I still have a punch 500a2 in the box with caps. The box is rough but the amp looks new.
All I know is the Punch 60 that I bought around 92 motivated the 2 Rockford Audiophile 12’s in the trunk of my Mustang very well. Years later the amp failed and I was able to send it back in for a one-time free repair. Blew it again years later but wished I would have kept it as I probably could have repaired it myself. Killer series of amps though and much better than the junk they released 10 or 15 years later at Best Buy. Those were garbage.
Yeah man when I saw those Best Buy amps I was like what happened to RF? Using max power and all 🤦♂️
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY we called those the bar b q grill the next-gen we called the batman Big d wussup with a 500m retest on your new equipment I'm satisfied with mono 2ohm test cause that what we used them for if they fell in our hands i wish i had known that I could have run one to my jbl gti 12s back in the day instead of two punch 200s thanks for the test big d
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I remember back in those days guys had more in their stereos than the car it was installed in cost.
People still do this 😝
Milli Vanilli could not help bring the dynamic power of the lip synch here!
🤣👍
Big D… I live in Fuquay… do you charge for an “in person” demo or walk through of your collection? If so! Sign me up!
Worked summers at a car audio shop back in the day we would have people come into the shop. They would ask to see the birth certificate of these Rockford Fosgate amps they would buy the one that had the most watts.
Yeah that was the trick!
Big D I have a couple of old school rockford amps 800@2 and 250a|| I need end caps any idea where I can find some and replace some worn out gain controls?
Oh and the splice to make two amps look like one BIG amp were the shizzz!!👍👍👍👍
the amp links? Yeah they are more valuable than the end caps now!
Ok so I like was half doing something and listening to your awesome video, but am I confused? Is that a car Amp running home speakers? So the speakers are 8ohm, but the Amp is only 4ohm, that causes problems. Please let me know so I don't have to watch the video again; to find out, I'm lazy...
The Elac home speakers are 6 ohm and provide very accurate response so I use them for the sound demos even tho you’ll never hear what I hear due to compression and such.
Milli vanilli now that takes me back to the very early 90's 😂😂
...many eBay sellers sell them amp and the end caps separately..a real cheap shot!
Hey I have some old Rockford amps around if I wanted to get them fixed would it be worth my time and money?