I'm glad the beastmaster ranger is now in a good place. It is undoubtedly one of the most popular character archetypes out there, in the US and abroad. Now none of the fans of the man of the woods and their faithful animal companion have to feel like a poor man's crossbow fighter any longer.
@@Wikrin There's the Drakewarden with its Drake which can function as a mount from 7th level. But Paladins with their Find Steed and Find Greater Steeds are still better
Man I just gotta say I love how many videos you're making on 5e! Used to read your guides a few years back when I played 3.5, and I switched over to 5e around the time you started uploading 5e content on your channel. I appreciate your insights and really love how much you upload!
The best feat for upping the damage of shillelagh is magic initiate and picking either booming blade or green flame blade. The downside of that is using your action to cast a cantrip interferes with the way taking attack actions now works with beastmaster pets. Edit: the best workaround to make Conjure animals friendly to your fellow players that I've seen was in an Acquisitions Incorporated stage show. In the game Mike Krahulik ran where he parodied PubG with "Wizard Unkown Battleground" Morgan Webb used conjure animals twice. Once to give all four members of her party Crocodiles to ride as they crossed a lake. And then to summon 4 panthers to fight the final boss. And the key to making that spell party member friendly is that they had all the players at the table roll for one of the panthers. So it felt like she gave everyone an extra attack against the boss when the panthers' turn came around. So the fix I like for conjure animals is it always summons one beast per party member, and everyone at the table rolls for one of the summons.
I believe that at 17th level is when the clause "you can use one of your attacks or your bonus action to command the creature" really shines, in combination with Swift Quiver of course. If you use one of your attacks to command your beast, you can make one attack + 2 attacks as a bonus action (Swift Quiver), and your beast makes two attacks. Is it 3 attacks + 2 beast attacks better or worse than your 4 attacks? I believe it is, especially if you enhanced your beast somehow.
Well done as usual. The part that I really appreciate is when you get to the end there is talk of versatility and options. So many times builds come down to doing the same thing over and over. I would much rather see something like this where the numbers are good AND the player has lots of interesting options. Have the best day.
Something interesting I found while making a similar build for Tasha's beastmaster is that for level 4 (but only level 4 from what I see), you will actually do slightly more by having the beast give the help action as opposed to making an attack. It is super close (literally .2 more per round ) but it does bring forth the idea that if you have a character in your party that is fishing for crits and doesn't want to expend a resource to make sure they have advantage (or they won't get access to that until later in their career) you might find it more beneficial for the beast to flyby and deliver the help action as opposed to attacking. Just something to consider based on party makeup.
A note on multiclassing for heavy armor on a STR ranger: you still need 13 DEX to multiclass into or out of ranger, so it's not a huge savings. The heavily armored feat does still allow dumping DEX on a single-class ranger.
@@noncanalepricnipale It's on page 163, just under the subheading that reads "prerequisites": "To qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one, as shown in the Multiclassing Prerequisites table."
This build is just in time! Running a game pretty soon with the gritty realism resting variant and my partner wanted to play a ranged beastmaster. Thanks Chris!
Since my DM allows '' auto casting '' buffing cantrips while the PCs have reasson to expect a combat(also he allows enchanting with cantrips, provided that we have time) i think im going for wisdom ranger for the different ranger vibes
I wish mine did too. Imo.that makes the wis beastmaster more viable as you dont waste your 1st bonus action on shillelagh. Mine said, just go get more fighter levels so you can max both wis and dex quickly.
@@TheRobversion1 i mean its not even a spell slot spell, makes no sense the character not maintain a non conc cantrip that allows him to fight Edit: unless hes surprised in a non combat place like a city or while long resting.
@@TheRobversion1 just keep saying ur casting shillelagh eventually he will crack XD or maybe try to ask him if you can enchant it with the shillelagh effect ( time with a chance of breaking the item on 1 on an Arcane/Nature Check )
I think a small think about the Shillelagh spell that may have been overlooked, is that its a Bonus Action Cantrip. Being a Bonus Action means you can cast it with little to no time outside of combat and as a Cantrip, it can be cast an unlimited number of times. Meaning you could effectively have the Shillelagh spell active almost indefinitely, and just say you refreshed it right before any combat. Exception to this being, if combat happens to take more than 10 rounds (equivalent to the spells 1 minute deration.), then you might need to recast it on your 11th turn, but likely by then the combat is pretty much over, so just let your companion mop up the rest while you sit back and cast spells or switch to ranged combat.
I really like the idea of a spell-less ranger. I also like the idea of a more subclass focused class where most of your class features are in the subclass.
Hell yeah! Excellent video. This sounds like a very fun character to play. Thank you for stressing features that are mechanically good, yet very obnoxious in terms of slowing down the game
Really like this build. Its probably the simplest way of putting together a beastmaster ranger, and definitely the simplest way to play it, and despite that, it pulls decent damage right the way through, while giving some simple buttons to hit out of combat. Would 100% recommend this to new players, especially since so many of them like the archetype, and it always feels bad to have to steer them away from it.
Wouldn't bonus action spells still be useful, since you can substitute an attack for your beast. Although, it would seem that bonus action spells will be best utilized at level 11. Where if you cast a bonus action spell, you can still attack 1 time and have the pet attack twice with your other attack. So, 3 attacks and a bonus action spell seems like a viable way to go about it. Even running numbers, a bonus action spell, sure you miss out on a beast attack, but you still get 2 attacks before 11 and deal decent damage beforehand.
I wonder what you guys think about using the Fastieth from Eberron: Rising from the Last War as a Beastmaster's companion? It has a pretty high to-hit and is pretty iconic for dino-riding halfling nomads of the Talenta Plains.
I know this is an older video, but one option I'd like to mention for the Wisdom Ranger build would be Magic Stone for Ranged attacks alongside Shillelagh. It's a little fuzzy, but tweets from Jcraw at least seem to suggest that extra attack would allow throwing two stones with your extra attack. Just like Shillelagh this wouldn't be ideal for the beastmaster build, although for both cantrips there remains the option of sacrificing one of your attacks for the beast when you initiate each cantrip, or just leaving the beast to dodge that turn. Non-optimal, but still might be fun to play a sort of "Nature Guardian" Ranger who entirely uses Wisdom and beasts to fight, and could ignore Dex aside from at least a base 14 for medium armor. Magic Stone is super forgettable though, and subject to rulings, so I figured I'd throw it out there. Some DMs, for example, would allow the range to be 60/120 when using a sling to shoot the stones, since having the sling reduce your base range from the spells default 60 is kinda dumb. Regardless of all of that, thanks for the video. It makes me suuuuuper happy to see Beastmaster Ranger in a good place, and it's nice to see the math and optimization broken down like this.
I know it's cheap as can be, but a level of Peace Cleric combined with Archery Combat Style will give you an average of +4.5 to hit once per turn, almost entirely offsetting the penalty of Sharpshooter for attacks that benefit from it, and will make some of your beast's attacks more accurate as well. And when you add Bless, things get absolutely ridiculous. Also, to deal as much damage as possible, I would just rely on Conjure Animals rather than Summon Fey which, to be honest, sucks. That would allow you to free up two ASIs (Fey-Touched (Wisdom) for Crossbow Expert (for when your beast dies or enemies get in melee range of you) and Lucky are great choices). Casting Bless regularly would also allow the party's Cleric, assuming there is one, to concentrate on Spirit Guardians without having to worry he's gimping the party by not casting Bless. Also, starting with a level of Peace Cleric would get you proficiency in Wisdom saves, which seems more important than Proficiency in Dexterity saves, as you can cast Absorb Elements.
Use Shillelagh any time you think combat might break out when possible, it doesn't cost you anything and it will save you a bonus action once you roll initiative
Conjure Animals may do more damage to the enemies but it’ll also do more damage to the flow of combat. When your whole subclass focuses on getting to play a second character it’s pretty easy for you to start taking over combat.
@@sharkforce8147 We had this issue with a Shepherd Druid. Combat was slow and cumbersome until the Druid player took some time to build all possible summons into Roll20. After that it was pretty straightforward.
Alas, finding out that the Dungeon Dudes got that ruling wrong makes me significantly less hype about the Beastmaster I'm currently playing. I went with the pure Wisdom track because I figured most of my damage would be coming from my companion, and now I'm a little sad. Ah well, I'm sure I'll still have plenty of powerful, tactical options with Shillelegh, even it's not as spiky as a Sharpshooter build, hopefully it'll at least be marginally more consistent at hitting. Also annoyed that I misread Beast Bond, I thought that was gonna be sweet, alas.
If you use one of your attacks to make the pet make 2 attacks and cast swift quiver, you get 3 attacks and the pet makes 2 for 5 total attacks. Which i think is arguably better than steelwind strike
The best way to build beastmaster after Tasha (the more difficult to play, but also stronger): Half-elf or Mountain dwarf, 16/13/14/9/16/8, first level fighter (because you need heavy armour, and also CON saves - to concentrate on haste or guardian of nature - both are massive!). Take GW FS. Background Rakdos Cultist - if allowed (to get access to haste). Then all levels as Ranger Beastmaster, defensive FS. ASI: GWM, WIS, Sentinel, WIS, STR (in any order you want) So we end as 18/13/14/9/20/8, saves 10/7/8/-1/5/-1, AC 19. It works this way: Beast of the land charges (1d8+1d6+2+PB; Twice after BM lvl 11), can knock enemy prone - DC=spell DC (twice after BM lvl 11). There is a great chance that you knock enemy prone, which is fantastic for GWM usage. So at lvls 6-11, your beast charges, then you engage and attack enemy twice (if prone with GWM bonus, if not, ordinary attack). From lvl 12, your beast attacks twice with chrge bonus a chance to knock enemy prone, then you follow as before. It does't end there - with sentinel feat, we also want, at the end of our turn, to move with beast 5ft away from enemy (if he is prone), because if he uses AoO, he has disadvantage to hit and ranger can attack him as reaction from sentinel feat. We can also, after lvl 16, cast haste through shared spells, so it will give beast 3 attacks (3 chances to knock enemy prone), ranger 3 attacks and possibly 1 more attack from sentinel. So capstone for this is following: 3x attack with beast for total of 3d6+3d8+24, then 4x attack with greatsword (+2 greatsword used) against prone enemy for total of 8d6+64. This combination is realy fantastic, but truth is, it is realy hard to build properly and I don't know other way how to achieve that without multiclass.
Trying to go for GWM for same reasons, san the background, my DMs would never allow it. I kinda like custom origin 16(+2)/14/14(RESCON)/9/14/8, first ASI GWM, then STR/Sentinel
@@marekkubicek1235 Interresting aproach. Haste is not essential to this build, however it is fantastic addon to it. I chose fighter dip because of heavy armour and GW FS, with pure ranger I would get everything 1 level sooner, I will compare those two options. EDIT, I see, you miss one feat/ASI in comparison to fighter dip, so fighter lvl 1 won for me.
With al my gripes with Favored fow, you assuming that you have an average of two rounds of Fav.Foe per encounter is I think a very honest assumption/estimate, so that you have one use of the feature per encounter. Just wanted to say that. ^^
the tasha's beast still has the option of attacking with one of your attacks so round 1 shillelagh/guardian of nature doesn't have to sacrifice the beast attack unless we want it to.
I'd love to see a wisdom based ranger build from you. I've been trying to build one (a swarmkeeper) and although it's acceptable for damage at lower levels I'm struggling to see what to do with it to keep up later (other than just multiclassing out).
And/ore are exploring caves. Though torches are ubiquitous in dnd's equipment packs, and make actualyl pretty good Ranger weapons with hunter's mark/favored foe, sicne both damage is of the same type as the triggering attack, meaning a torch does 1+1d4/6/8 (depending on level) Fire damage.
I like to introduce parties without lights to my best friend, the Grue. The Grue can hide in darkness so long as that darkness makes them lightly concealed.
I picked the beast master in my first dnd campaign and I noticed this quite a few times in my early levels, because I was one of the few characters playing a race without darkvision, I had to make use of the torch and couldn't really fight without finding ways to iluminate the battlefield first. Luckily my DM placed a magical item merchant in our way and my party helped me funding the 400gp for goggles of night ❤
Usually i like your vids but cant say i'm.not a little disappointed with this one..wanted a wis, beast focused build and a multiclass. Havent seen you do multiclass builds in a while. I wouldve liked to see a shillelagh beastmaster then multiclassed with something like fighter/barb who have features.that help.ally characters without requiring a bonus action/action.
@@TheRobversion1 well yeah, I'm just saying that since this video is specifically focused on how the ranger is with changes I'm glad he went full ranger to see just how much has changed.
@@GrimViridian i guess thats a way to look at it. I just didnt see the change because he went with a sharpshooter build (which is better on a gloomstalker) and i didnt see the focus on the beast attacking. Thats why i suggested a multiclass. To move away from the sharpshooter build and multiclassing into classes where there are abilities that can boost the beast attacking such as a wolf totem barbarian to provide advantage for the beast or a battlemaster where you can use maneuvers to give the beast advantagr or perhaps a cavalier/ancestral guardian to protect the beast. That way we can see if the new beastmaster (focusing on the beast attacking) is more viable now. If i wanted to do a sharpshooter build.i wouldve just gone gloomstalker. Beastmaster is still the base class as 11-15 levels of ranger are integral but imo 5 levels can be multiclassed.
Custom lineage-small size. 15 wisdom point buy, +2 racial, +1 fey touched. Spell choice dissonant whispers. 14 constitution, 14 dexterity. Druidic warrior fighting style, primal savagery and create bonfire. Magic stone may work pretty well too since you can activate it and still get some use out of it when extra attack arrives. You could use your bonus action on the first turn to activate the stone, next turn using a bonus action spell like ensnaring strike or hail of thorns. Doesn’t feel great, but if the first attack lands you can give up an attack to let the beast go twice at level 11 Ride the land beast, use your bonus action to charge a creature, possibly dealing extra damage and probing them regardless of size. cast dissonant whispers on the same creature, if they fail you and your beast take opportunity attacks as it moves away, potentially at advantage if creature was proned. Favored foe works with your primal savagery.
Damn I hoped this was some epic Shillelagh melee build. Gotta try find some valid one.. my dm doesn't like summons. But beast pet is ok to have. Still a good vid.
Easy: Hill dwarf, 8/14/17/10/16/8, druidic warrior FS. Raise WIS, WIS, Sentinel, resilient CON, CON. You end with 8/14/20/10/20/8, saves 5/8/11/0/5/-1, HPs 244 (+6x 1d8+5 from lvl 10 feature, which is 57 HP equivalent). beast 105 HPs on top of that. Your dmg will be liitle lower, however you are ultimate melee shillelagh ranger tank, you will knock enemies prone with beast, share spells and great thing is, your spell save DC and attack will be the highest possible (same like full casters). So if you want to deal dmg, use tactics mentioned in video - haste + nature's veil + steel wind strike + beast 2x attack (if DM allows you to use action from haste to command the beast). Or just use sahred guardian of nature + steel wind strike + order beast to attack as BA. I hope you find this build epic enough ;-).
@@JuckiCZ Thank you. That sounds actually very fun. Never played with WIS melee build before! I wonder if it's worth of multiclassing. For example 1 level of peace domain cleric for the mega bless.
What if you'd get the find familiar spell somewhere and get the flying companion. Have the familiar do the help action, attack with advantage have your companion help action, attack again with advantage. Seems like a pretty consistent way to get adv on ranged attacks. Could also be good for a melee STR build, so you'd still not need WIS, although using flanking would work too then. The only real issue I can see immediately is the level 11 feature not adding anything. Maybe some multiclass would work, what do you think?
@34:52 ruclips.net/video/KRQwyw7B9rM/видео.html What a beautiful graph, Treantmonk has done it again. In some ways this class patch feels somewhat like a 5.5e. In actuality it's the classic medium armor or heavy armor decision, this time with summoning. Familiars are great, but with companions being stronger it can challenge the dungeon master. I appreciate your expert perspective on that.
I might be missing a rules interaction here, but this build could make use of Swift Quiver. Could you not take the attack action, attack once with your bow and replace the second attack with a command for your beast to attack, then use your bonus action to attack twice with the bow?
Yeah, you could attack 5 times per round with Swift Quiver, or 4 times per round with advantage with Guardian of Nature - the latter is significantly more damage and uses a lower level slot.
@@TreantmonksTemple But it may be worth having Swift Quiver at late levels if you can spare the spells known slot. In a situation where you already have advantage, it would be excellent, way better than Guardian, and worthy of a 5th level slot. (In general though I agree Guardian of Nature will be better for this character, and really seems to be underrated, while Swift Quiver is overrated.)
But can't you already make 5 attacks per round? Your beast can attacks twice when it takes the attack action at level 11. You can sacrifice one of you attacks to command it to take the attack action and do it again as a bonus action. Unless I'm missing something, you can attack once and then have you beast can attack 4 times. So it should be 5 attacks per round with advantage with Guardian of Nature.
@@markloeffler85 like he mentioned in the video, no because your beast still only has one action per round so you can't command it twice, if you could, swift quiver would give you like 7 total attacks 😯
You turn down Druidic Warrior (Shillelagh) for it's use of the Bonus Action, but it can be used outside of combat before the fight, and even ignoring Shillelagh you still have options like Primal Savagery and Poison Spray. Would these be potential options? It would certainly let you focus on less stats which could be a bonus.
Im curious as to why you dobt use a custom background? U could have picked up more languages, or an herbalism kit to make healing potions on the cheap, or cooks Utensils to grant an additional 1hp gained per hit die for your party on short rests.
I love how he kinda called out dungeon dudes. I like their videos also but they do take so many liberties with the rules. They also said that the familiar can do the same, attack twice, which would help me but completely goes against RAW
To be fair to the DD, I recall Treantmonk also questioning whether this meant you could get up to 5 attacks per round when he first considered the revised features, because it's confusing how the features should all interact, and I haven't been able to find any sage advice clarifying how it works. Also, they got corrected in the comments and acknowledged it, and felt the BM was still in the same good place even without that extra bit of oomph.
@@gregbowen2477 I'm not shitting on DD. Creatively I love their stuff more cause it gives you ideas. I'm just saying they take alot of liberties where my favorite other chris is very practical and by the books. Heard TM is doing a video with nerdarchy. Id love to see one with Dungeon dudes also
@@chrisriego8549 i like when ppl shit on dungeon dudes, they give bad info and dont research before speaking with authority on topics they clearly dont understand. not just in this case, thats the reason i dont watch them
@Chris, I’m generally curious. If you tried to do a Dex/Wis build but wanted a tank for a Beast Companion would you look into trying to do Share Spells with Armor of Agathys or would you look at instead doing something along the lines of Warding Bond? Great video as always my friend.
I would definitely want something to boost durability. If you have an artillerist in the party maybe nothing more is required, but on my own, warding bond is a good bet at most levels.
Hi. I am confused by the decrease of the damage on the graph. I expected a decrease in relation to the base line, but not a decrease in actual value. Makes no sense.
How should I deal with the fact that the starting equipement exceed his maximum's carrying capacity? Is the hunting trap important? If not , getting rid of it would fix this.
Aw man .... my interest level halved when you went Dex. Can you use polearm mastery with shillelagh, which you can cast on your quarterstaff? I'm going to make a wisdom summoner beast master ranger. It can't be any more meh than the old ranger.
Sentinel looks more interesting to me, since you're not using your bonus action. Of course, it would only be interesting to use if Shillelagh has been previously cast on your quarterstaff.
If I went melee, is there an easy way to stop the Beast from eating Opportunity attacks except by blinding the enemy with Darkness + Devil’s Sight and such? Strength saving throws aren’t that likely to work
Doesn't "Specific beats general" apply to using one of your attacks and your bonus action to command your beast to take the Attack action twice? Is this the one situation where a subclass ability doesn't apply to this rule? The Attack action normally can only be used in coordination with the action you take on your turn, but this ability allows you to "...take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action" . Otherwise, how the heck have Rogues been using Dash twice, with their action and bonus action, all this time? Isn't this similar, except for the Ranger's bonus action is used for the beasts 1pt action, and then foregoing one of the Ranger's Attacks allows it to Attack again?
Do you think a druid/BM Ranger MC would be better than either class individually, or are you just watering down both. I love the idea of casting big druid spells while using the bonus action to let the beast attack. I feel like there's the potential for big time versatility.
I'll be going over the Ranger subclasses next, but I'm trying out an aberrant mind sorcerer in a game tonight, super-excited to have a sorcerer with lots of spells known!
@@TreantmonksTemple yeah, sorcerers got pretty buffed with TCoE, all those juicy spells and optional features, let us know how it goes :D. Do you think that the Aberrant Mind sorcerer is mechanically better than the Clockwork Soul? The features seems pretty good for the former but oh god the spell selection of the latter, trasmutation and abjuration schools (and the features are not bad either)
Can't you combine great weapon master with steel wind strike? The feat says "before you make a melee attack" and the spell says "make a melee spell attack"
GWM also says the attack must be made with a heavy weapon, while steel wind strike does not specify you are attacking with a weapon, only you are flourishing the weapon. Since the damage type is not the weapon's damage type, we can likely infer you aren't.
I just wanted to add something in regards to Conjure spells, something that has been confusing me for a while now. It‘s actually more of a question, really. The conjure spells, such as Conjure Animals, might summon multiple creatures, but: „Roll initiative for the summoned creatures AS A GROUP, which has ITS OWN turns.“ All the creatures act at the same time. They only take up a single turn. Shure, they make a lot of attacks, but you can use group combat rules for that. Why has no-one come up with a way to make those spells less bothersome, or rather, why didn‘t they add in a fix with Tasha‘s, since it‘s the great lets-add-in-things-everybody-already-knows-and-things-we-should-have-delivered-years-ago...?
Is there any benefit to Swift Quiver if you give up an attack to command the pet? That way you can still make 3 longbow attacks and 2 pet attacks? Better than Steelwind Strike in single target situations?
I myself would go Ranger /oath of the ancient Palidan. I'd go dex with a spear and I'm feeling a boomerang. race halfling.for beast I'd wants blink dog but you never know how a game is gonna go.
@@TreantmonksTemple Ah, thought you had the math at hand on how the damage compares between one of your attacks vs 2 of your beasts, also with swift quiver you'd still be netting an extra attack, small benefit admittedly.
Nice build! How does lvl4 dmg dip below lvl3 dmg? I get it being closer to baseline but less than the previous level doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I missed something during the video.
Is there any way to get a combined graph with the baseline damage vs the damage output of various builds you've done? I just think it would be interesting to easily compare the progress from multiple options at once
@@TreantmonksTemple For the data from your previous builds, I can't tell if that graph is from Excel, Google Sheets, or another program; if it's from Google Sheets you can view previous versions of the document. For Excel I think that's not the default option, but I'm not sure. On Google Sheets it would be File -> Version History In Excel depending on the version it would either be under File -> Info -> Version History or File -> History, if it's there.
Gloomstalker..multiclass with battlemaster/assassin. To be specific: Get sharpshooter and elven accuracy. Assassin 3 for 1st round auto crit and sneak attack Battlemaster 5 for additional fighting style (superior technique), action surge, maneuvers, asi and extra attack Gloomstalker 3 for spells, dread ambush, umbral sight, hunters mark, fighting style (archery). Build done at level 9-11. Full build at 20: 12 battlemaster (for 3 attacks, more asi/feat, superiority dicw upgrade and more manuevers) 3 gloomstalker 5 assassin for extra sneak attack and asi/feat (like martial adept) You are free to tweak some of the final 3 levels as long as you have 11 battlemaster, 3 gloomstalker and 3 assassin like going 5 ranger for access to 2nd level spells. Tactic. Surprise enemy for auto crit (be in darkness + stealth). bonus action: hunters mark action: attack (attach maneuvers to each). Use sharpshooter. Use precision attack if you roll low on all 3 advantage die. action surge: attack (attach maneuvers to each). Use sharpshooter. Use precision attack if you roll low on all 3 advantage die. At level 17 thats 8 attacks on the 1st round all crit, all sharpshooter, with almost all of the attacks (7) with maneuvers plus hunters mark. Then a single attack with sneak attack and a couple with dread ambush dmg bonus. Of course you have your basic longbow dmg, dex and any bonuses from a magical bow/bracers of archery.
@@TheRobversion1 I stick with Dex. I try to minimize M.A.D as much as possible in my multiclass builds. I usually stay away from assassin as in my experience canny DMs will limit the amount of times you get to use the assassinate ability
What build have you made with the highest consistent DPR and how much was it? I saw the assassin with the insane burst, other then that it was the arcane trickster reaching 60+. Anything higher than that?
@@Mr911superstar that's not a good excuse. why go through the effort of trying to fix the class if they're going to ignore the later levels and therefore make them worse? they shouldve been variant-ing the dead levels on other classes too.
The interest of lvl 7 feature was that you could use your bonus action to tell your beast to do something (but not Attack). Since we now use our BA even to attack, it would have been interesting if our companion could do something more on its own, without using even our BA. Like, "Beginning at 7th level, on any of your turns when your beast companion doesn’t attack, your beast can take the Dash, Disengage, or Help action on its turn in addition to Dodge." Or it could be only one of these actions (I would chose Help). So my beast could either dodge or help me or an ally if it's not attacking.
So if you're asleep or can't talk or something it just jumps around not attacking until it dies. That's pretty dumb. Does it become an animal companion and then stop knowing how to attack on its own or does it learn to calculate average DPS and nerf itself voluntarily or what here? Bad design man. It bugs me.
@@saytr4 agreed. Imo they shouldve just made it like find familiar/find steed. Btw if you are sleeping, it can take any action as it states if you're incapacitated, it can take any action (not just dodge). So asleep=unconscious=incapacitated.
Just curious... maybe I missed it in the video... but how will you alter the build for the melee approach you refer to in the end with beast knocking opponent prone, and so on.
Player Handbook Beast Ranger - trash unless you are an expert at D&D optimization Tasha Beast Ranger - great for beginners and optimization nerds like us I don’t really love this Ranger class now but (and I hate to say it but) they mostly fixed it so it is playable!
Why dex melee ranger is the weakest option? from my perspective strength based is weaker because Rangers can't go heavy armor and don't get great weapon fighting, on the other hand Dex gives you better initiative and AC specially sword and board (which pairs well with a Tanky Dex-Con Ranger and have race options on going 13+Dex for potential 18 AC at lvl 1 or 8)
Sword and board and 2WF just don’t have the feat support to be considered by optimizers. Furthermore Great Weapon Fighting is an average DPR increase of +1, it’s easily replaced by almost anything else in the rest of the Ranger’s features. To summarize, that 18 AC is meaningless next to the damage potential of the other ranger builds. Especially since D&D5e doesn’t really reward being hard to hit but does reward dealing a lot of damage.
@@TreantmonksTemple Holy smokes. Now I'm really considering archmage subscription. I had no idea you were full time d&d. Anything in the works? Kickstarter? Releasing your own book!?! I'd buy it
@@TreantmonksTemple I see. And presumably the Ranger is a more rounded character in terms of access to spells, saving throws, etc? It just seems very... one-note, compared to what I've seen your Wizards builds being capable of
I assume you mean with crossbow expert? If so the math is pretty close as they trail on Dex until 12 at which point this build is throwing on an extra attack.
I think that the point of the video is to make a good Beast Master, not to make the best sharpshooter build for rangers. For instance, a sorcerer/warlock using Eldritch Blast is definitely the best combination to capitalize on the cantrip since they can quicken it, doesn't mean there is "no points" for a bard to get some levels of warlock to get eldritch blast along some invocations to round up their lacking offense and get some nice utility options.
@@TreantmonksTemple that single attack from the beast from a secondary ability matters that much? EDIT: whoops, level 11 beast gets extra attack, nevermind
3:35 This is not true, you can cast Shillelagh on the first turn and then you can either attack yourself with your action or make your beast attack on the first round, and you can also use other cantrips like thorn whip as your action, move it closer to your beast and use a BA so the beast can attack.
Beastmaster is just upsetting after Tasha's republished sidekicks. I hope in 6e that WotC stops worrying about action economy and allows the Ranger to use a beast that doesn't use its Bonus Action every turn.
It's important to note that Bestial Fury only procs when the beast takes the Attack action. That only happens when the ranger takes the Attack action and gives up one of their attacks. You're only getting in one bow shot.
I do wonder if we've set the "baseline damage" too high, requiring most characters use their feat selections on things like sharpshooter (effective, but does not add anything interesting to the character), or forcing warlocks to take the invocation Agonizing Blast (same argument). Wouldn't we be having more interesting "character build" discussions if players were encouraged to branch out in their character vision and the DM simply adjusts combat difficulty to compensate for that? As a DM, I'm constantly adjusting difficulty anyway.
Dont knwo when you have seen a horrible optimized chara in action, its like seeing somebody singing who cant sing. You constantly have to say no you sont suck but nobody believes it. Especially bards that happens pretty often.
I quote two and a half man. If you wanted them not knowing who is winning you shouldnt have taught them to count. When charly sees the kids play soccer and the paretns decided that they dont count goals.
Well, Treantmonk is a known optimizer, no wonder he sets his standard for a build high. Though I agree, seeing the same feats and options over and over again is quite boring.
@@antongrigoryev6381 thats true but tahts not his fault that most feats are two tier lower then the good ones. Also asi at 4 and 8 forces you to substiute it for dc progression or to hit so you have to take a good one. If they just give you a feat poeple would be far more willing to take more creatove feats i guess? I think it was like this in the padt or at leadt in pathfinder game on steam and in the pillars games. Its just more fun for the player. Thats the only advantage i see inrolling. Hoghly likely you start with18-20 and can use your asis for feat. Else i find it stupid especially when the dm lets people roll untill they have 6 18s. Why not advanced point buy where you can go to 18 instead of this?
“… you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action. You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Attack action. If you are incapacitated, the beast can take any action of its choice, not just Dodge.” It’s very clear to me that the primal companion can make 2 attacks if you sacrifice one of your extra attacks you get at level 5. It does not say you can either use your bonus action or one of your attacks from your action, it says you can use your bonus action, also you can use one of the attacks from your action. Also doesn’t mean or, also means and. As far as concern about your primal companion’s action economy and whether it can take two actions, it doesn’t use its own action economy unless you are incapacitated. It uses your action economy until you are incapacitated, in which case it can take its action on its own.
Hi Chris(Treantmonk), I am your fan from a long time and I write to you because I need if possible your help (anyone can suggest of course). I will start soon a campaign with my friend (a paladin, a warrior(meelee), a warrior (arcane archer) and me) but I have problems for deciding my class. I will be the only (we made a Homebrew rule ro limit the number of casters in party) Full CASTER and I have a concept in mind but I need your mechanical help, I would like to build a character that is more a support like your God wizard, that has battle control, out of combat spell and situation solving capacity. The problem is, I don't know which to choose from this classes and archetypes : Wizard (no atchrtipe in particular) Sorcerer (stone or divine) Warlock(geine or celestial) Druid (moon) I olso did watch your video aboud spell "skinning" but I have problems to even choose the spells too... Ahaha Can you suggest me something? Thank your really much and I hope you will answer me. YOUR ITALIAN FAN
Thanks for inspiring me. Now I want to play a Kenku Beastmaster themed around Ravens/Crows and my only major swap is changing out Resilient:Con for Magic Initiate: Wizard for Find Familiar (because why not have ANOTHER bird partner?)
You may want to consider Ritual Caster instead, especially if you don't have a Wizard in the party already. There's an incredible amount of versatility there.
A better beast master, in my opinion, uses a Giant Crab. It has good AC, better if you load it up with magic items, and the ability to grapple on an opportunity attack. So just let a blinged out Giant Crab run up and dodge (no action required by you), and then grapple enemies if they try to move away. Play as a Kobold so that your companion gives you pack tactics.
If your dm allows for feats and variant humans, this is neat. There are dms who don't for one reason or another so yeah. I feel that while Tasha's makes the beastmaster viable, it still isn't great.
It does not look like fun to play. Especially for 20 levels. You do just that one thing, which does not actually improve that much in terms of damage not flavor. And this is Just my point of view...
Because Dungeon Dudes wrote a comment they pinned to the video saying they made a mistake? I'm not in disagreement with DD here, I just know from the comments of my last video that a lot of their viewers didn't read their correction.
@@TreantmonksTemple that's crazy. I not only prefer the quality of your content to theirs, but their cardboard read-from-script style of communicating bores me to sleep every time.
I'm glad the beastmaster ranger is now in a good place. It is undoubtedly one of the most popular character archetypes out there, in the US and abroad. Now none of the fans of the man of the woods and their faithful animal companion have to feel like a poor man's crossbow fighter any longer.
Unless they wanted a loyal steed.
@@Wikrin There's the Drakewarden with its Drake which can function as a mount from 7th level. But Paladins with their Find Steed and Find Greater Steeds are still better
Man I just gotta say I love how many videos you're making on 5e!
Used to read your guides a few years back when I played 3.5, and I switched over to 5e around the time you started uploading 5e content on your channel. I appreciate your insights and really love how much you upload!
Something nice for the algorithm: A comment for support. Thanks for the video.
Oh wow. Nature's Veil with Steel Wind Strike is genius.
I just love how iconic this Ranger build is, extremely archetypal
The best feat for upping the damage of shillelagh is magic initiate and picking either booming blade or green flame blade. The downside of that is using your action to cast a cantrip interferes with the way taking attack actions now works with beastmaster pets.
Edit: the best workaround to make Conjure animals friendly to your fellow players that I've seen was in an Acquisitions Incorporated stage show.
In the game Mike Krahulik ran where he parodied PubG with "Wizard Unkown Battleground" Morgan Webb used conjure animals twice. Once to give all four members of her party Crocodiles to ride as they crossed a lake. And then to summon 4 panthers to fight the final boss.
And the key to making that spell party member friendly is that they had all the players at the table roll for one of the panthers. So it felt like she gave everyone an extra attack against the boss when the panthers' turn came around.
So the fix I like for conjure animals is it always summons one beast per party member, and everyone at the table rolls for one of the summons.
What a dope way to handle mass summons! What do you suggest to do with a necromancy horde?
I believe that at 17th level is when the clause "you can use one of your attacks or your bonus action to command the creature" really shines, in combination with Swift Quiver of course. If you use one of your attacks to command your beast, you can make one attack + 2 attacks as a bonus action (Swift Quiver), and your beast makes two attacks. Is it 3 attacks + 2 beast attacks better or worse than your 4 attacks? I believe it is, especially if you enhanced your beast somehow.
Well done as usual. The part that I really appreciate is when you get to the end there is talk of versatility and options. So many times builds come down to doing the same thing over and over. I would much rather see something like this where the numbers are good AND the player has lots of interesting options.
Have the best day.
Something interesting I found while making a similar build for Tasha's beastmaster is that for level 4 (but only level 4 from what I see), you will actually do slightly more by having the beast give the help action as opposed to making an attack. It is super close (literally .2 more per round ) but it does bring forth the idea that if you have a character in your party that is fishing for crits and doesn't want to expend a resource to make sure they have advantage (or they won't get access to that until later in their career) you might find it more beneficial for the beast to flyby and deliver the help action as opposed to attacking. Just something to consider based on party makeup.
Fantastic idea with nature's veil + steel wind strike combination! This is realy briliant!
A note on multiclassing for heavy armor on a STR ranger: you still need 13 DEX to multiclass into or out of ranger, so it's not a huge savings. The heavily armored feat does still allow dumping DEX on a single-class ranger.
@@noncanalepricnipale It's on page 163, just under the subheading that reads "prerequisites": "To qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one, as shown in the Multiclassing Prerequisites table."
This build is just in time! Running a game pretty soon with the gritty realism resting variant and my partner wanted to play a ranged beastmaster. Thanks Chris!
Been waiting for this!
I have recently discovered your channel. Just wanted to say thank you for the content.
Since my DM allows '' auto casting '' buffing cantrips while the PCs have reasson to expect a combat(also he allows enchanting with cantrips, provided that we have time) i think im going for wisdom ranger for the different ranger vibes
I wish mine did too. Imo.that makes the wis beastmaster more viable as you dont waste your 1st bonus action on shillelagh.
Mine said, just go get more fighter levels so you can max both wis and dex quickly.
@@TheRobversion1 i mean its not even a spell slot spell, makes no sense the character not maintain a non conc cantrip that allows him to fight
Edit: unless hes surprised in a non combat place like a city or while long resting.
@@evans178 yeah but my dm is very particular on not unbalancing the action economy. he'd only allow it if we were the ones planning an ambush.
@@TheRobversion1 just keep saying ur casting shillelagh eventually he will crack XD or maybe try to ask him if you can enchant it with the shillelagh effect ( time with a chance of breaking the item on 1 on an Arcane/Nature Check )
@@evans178 haha. I just dont want to be annoying saying every 2m, i cast shillelagh. Lol
I think a small think about the Shillelagh spell that may have been overlooked, is that its a Bonus Action Cantrip. Being a Bonus Action means you can cast it with little to no time outside of combat and as a Cantrip, it can be cast an unlimited number of times. Meaning you could effectively have the Shillelagh spell active almost indefinitely, and just say you refreshed it right before any combat. Exception to this being, if combat happens to take more than 10 rounds (equivalent to the spells 1 minute deration.), then you might need to recast it on your 11th turn, but likely by then the combat is pretty much over, so just let your companion mop up the rest while you sit back and cast spells or switch to ranged combat.
I really like the idea of a spell-less ranger. I also like the idea of a more subclass focused class where most of your class features are in the subclass.
I'm new to dnd and playing to play and I love animal tamer classes in games so this guide is very useful thanks
Hell yeah! Excellent video. This sounds like a very fun character to play. Thank you for stressing features that are mechanically good, yet very obnoxious in terms of slowing down the game
Thank you for the consistently great and wholesome content!
Really like this build.
Its probably the simplest way of putting together a beastmaster ranger, and definitely the simplest way to play it, and despite that, it pulls decent damage right the way through, while giving some simple buttons to hit out of combat.
Would 100% recommend this to new players, especially since so many of them like the archetype, and it always feels bad to have to steer them away from it.
Wouldn't bonus action spells still be useful, since you can substitute an attack for your beast. Although, it would seem that bonus action spells will be best utilized at level 11. Where if you cast a bonus action spell, you can still attack 1 time and have the pet attack twice with your other attack. So, 3 attacks and a bonus action spell seems like a viable way to go about it. Even running numbers, a bonus action spell, sure you miss out on a beast attack, but you still get 2 attacks before 11 and deal decent damage beforehand.
I wonder what you guys think about using the Fastieth from Eberron: Rising from the Last War as a Beastmaster's companion? It has a pretty high to-hit and is pretty iconic for dino-riding halfling nomads of the Talenta Plains.
I know this is an older video, but one option I'd like to mention for the Wisdom Ranger build would be Magic Stone for Ranged attacks alongside Shillelagh. It's a little fuzzy, but tweets from Jcraw at least seem to suggest that extra attack would allow throwing two stones with your extra attack. Just like Shillelagh this wouldn't be ideal for the beastmaster build, although for both cantrips there remains the option of sacrificing one of your attacks for the beast when you initiate each cantrip, or just leaving the beast to dodge that turn. Non-optimal, but still might be fun to play a sort of "Nature Guardian" Ranger who entirely uses Wisdom and beasts to fight, and could ignore Dex aside from at least a base 14 for medium armor.
Magic Stone is super forgettable though, and subject to rulings, so I figured I'd throw it out there. Some DMs, for example, would allow the range to be 60/120 when using a sling to shoot the stones, since having the sling reduce your base range from the spells default 60 is kinda dumb.
Regardless of all of that, thanks for the video. It makes me suuuuuper happy to see Beastmaster Ranger in a good place, and it's nice to see the math and optimization broken down like this.
I know it's cheap as can be, but a level of Peace Cleric combined with Archery Combat Style will give you an average of +4.5 to hit once per turn, almost entirely offsetting the penalty of Sharpshooter for attacks that benefit from it, and will make some of your beast's attacks more accurate as well. And when you add Bless, things get absolutely ridiculous. Also, to deal as much damage as possible, I would just rely on Conjure Animals rather than Summon Fey which, to be honest, sucks. That would allow you to free up two ASIs (Fey-Touched (Wisdom) for Crossbow Expert (for when your beast dies or enemies get in melee range of you) and Lucky are great choices). Casting Bless regularly would also allow the party's Cleric, assuming there is one, to concentrate on Spirit Guardians without having to worry he's gimping the party by not casting Bless. Also, starting with a level of Peace Cleric would get you proficiency in Wisdom saves, which seems more important than Proficiency in Dexterity saves, as you can cast Absorb Elements.
Use Shillelagh any time you think combat might break out when possible, it doesn't cost you anything and it will save you a bonus action once you roll initiative
Oh no, my beastmaster itch is tingling
Conjure Animals may do more damage to the enemies but it’ll also do more damage to the flow of combat. When your whole subclass focuses on getting to play a second character it’s pretty easy for you to start taking over combat.
@@sharkforce8147 We had this issue with a Shepherd Druid. Combat was slow and cumbersome until the Druid player took some time to build all possible summons into Roll20. After that it was pretty straightforward.
Alas, finding out that the Dungeon Dudes got that ruling wrong makes me significantly less hype about the Beastmaster I'm currently playing. I went with the pure Wisdom track because I figured most of my damage would be coming from my companion, and now I'm a little sad. Ah well, I'm sure I'll still have plenty of powerful, tactical options with Shillelegh, even it's not as spiky as a Sharpshooter build, hopefully it'll at least be marginally more consistent at hitting.
Also annoyed that I misread Beast Bond, I thought that was gonna be sweet, alas.
Talk to your dm about it, maybe they'll be cool with playing how you first thought or maybe they'll let you retool your build
If you use one of your attacks to make the pet make 2 attacks and cast swift quiver, you get 3 attacks and the pet makes 2 for 5 total attacks. Which i think is arguably better than steelwind strike
The best way to build beastmaster after Tasha (the more difficult to play, but also stronger):
Half-elf or Mountain dwarf, 16/13/14/9/16/8, first level fighter (because you need heavy armour, and also CON saves - to concentrate on haste or guardian of nature - both are massive!). Take GW FS. Background Rakdos Cultist - if allowed (to get access to haste).
Then all levels as Ranger Beastmaster, defensive FS.
ASI: GWM, WIS, Sentinel, WIS, STR (in any order you want)
So we end as 18/13/14/9/20/8, saves 10/7/8/-1/5/-1, AC 19.
It works this way: Beast of the land charges (1d8+1d6+2+PB; Twice after BM lvl 11), can knock enemy prone - DC=spell DC (twice after BM lvl 11). There is a great chance that you knock enemy prone, which is fantastic for GWM usage. So at lvls 6-11, your beast charges, then you engage and attack enemy twice (if prone with GWM bonus, if not, ordinary attack). From lvl 12, your beast attacks twice with chrge bonus a chance to knock enemy prone, then you follow as before.
It does't end there - with sentinel feat, we also want, at the end of our turn, to move with beast 5ft away from enemy (if he is prone), because if he uses AoO, he has disadvantage to hit and ranger can attack him as reaction from sentinel feat.
We can also, after lvl 16, cast haste through shared spells, so it will give beast 3 attacks (3 chances to knock enemy prone), ranger 3 attacks and possibly 1 more attack from sentinel.
So capstone for this is following:
3x attack with beast for total of 3d6+3d8+24, then 4x attack with greatsword (+2 greatsword used) against prone enemy for total of 8d6+64.
This combination is realy fantastic, but truth is, it is realy hard to build properly and I don't know other way how to achieve that without multiclass.
Trying to go for GWM for same reasons, san the background, my DMs would never allow it. I kinda like custom origin 16(+2)/14/14(RESCON)/9/14/8, first ASI GWM, then STR/Sentinel
@@marekkubicek1235 Interresting aproach. Haste is not essential to this build, however it is fantastic addon to it. I chose fighter dip because of heavy armour and GW FS, with pure ranger I would get everything 1 level sooner, I will compare those two options.
EDIT, I see, you miss one feat/ASI in comparison to fighter dip, so fighter lvl 1 won for me.
With sharpshooter I'm wondering why there isn't more reliance on the Beast of the Sky using the help action rather than attacking.
With al my gripes with Favored fow, you assuming that you have an average of two rounds of Fav.Foe per encounter is I think a very honest assumption/estimate, so that you have one use of the feature per encounter.
Just wanted to say that. ^^
the tasha's beast still has the option of attacking with one of your attacks so round 1 shillelagh/guardian of nature doesn't have to sacrifice the beast attack unless we want it to.
I'd love to see a wisdom based ranger build from you. I've been trying to build one (a swarmkeeper) and although it's acceptable for damage at lower levels I'm struggling to see what to do with it to keep up later (other than just multiclassing out).
The lack of darkvision at low levels is going to be a problem as for some reason adventurers ALWAYS go out when its dark.
Take candle, melt base slightly, stick on flying beast's head and light. :P
And/ore are exploring caves. Though torches are ubiquitous in dnd's equipment packs, and make actualyl pretty good Ranger weapons with hunter's mark/favored foe, sicne both damage is of the same type as the triggering attack, meaning a torch does 1+1d4/6/8 (depending on level) Fire damage.
I'm surprised by how few DMs really take darkness into consideration except in certain specific situations.
I like to introduce parties without lights to my best friend, the Grue. The Grue can hide in darkness so long as that darkness makes them lightly concealed.
I picked the beast master in my first dnd campaign and I noticed this quite a few times in my early levels, because I was one of the few characters playing a race without darkvision, I had to make use of the torch and couldn't really fight without finding ways to iluminate the battlefield first.
Luckily my DM placed a magical item merchant in our way and my party helped me funding the 400gp for goggles of night ❤
Usually i like your vids but cant say i'm.not a little disappointed with this one..wanted a wis, beast focused build and a multiclass. Havent seen you do multiclass builds in a while.
I wouldve liked to see a shillelagh beastmaster then multiclassed with something like fighter/barb who have features.that help.ally characters without requiring a bonus action/action.
Now that we finally have a decent beastmaster it would suck to see it immediately multiclass though
@@GrimViridian nah. Multiclass is the way to go imo. Especially for martial builds.
@@TheRobversion1 well yeah, I'm just saying that since this video is specifically focused on how the ranger is with changes I'm glad he went full ranger to see just how much has changed.
@@GrimViridian i guess thats a way to look at it. I just didnt see the change because he went with a sharpshooter build (which is better on a gloomstalker) and i didnt see the focus on the beast attacking. Thats why i suggested a multiclass. To move away from the sharpshooter build and multiclassing into classes where there are abilities that can boost the beast attacking such as a wolf totem barbarian to provide advantage for the beast or a battlemaster where you can use maneuvers to give the beast advantagr or perhaps a cavalier/ancestral guardian to protect the beast. That way we can see if the new beastmaster (focusing on the beast attacking) is more viable now. If i wanted to do a sharpshooter build.i wouldve just gone gloomstalker.
Beastmaster is still the base class as 11-15 levels of ranger are integral but imo 5 levels can be multiclassed.
I commented that exact issue on the Dungeon Dudes video, they do tend to take favourable readings of the rules for things.
They made a mistake. A correction comment was pinned to the video.
@@TreantmonksTemple That's good to hear.
Custom lineage-small size.
15 wisdom point buy, +2 racial, +1 fey touched. Spell choice dissonant whispers.
14 constitution, 14 dexterity.
Druidic warrior fighting style, primal savagery and create bonfire. Magic stone may work pretty well too since you can activate it and still get some use out of it when extra attack arrives. You could use your bonus action on the first turn to activate the stone, next turn using a bonus action spell like ensnaring strike or hail of thorns. Doesn’t feel great, but if the first attack lands you can give up an attack to let the beast go twice at level 11
Ride the land beast, use your bonus action to charge a creature, possibly dealing extra damage and probing them regardless of size. cast dissonant whispers on the same creature, if they fail you and your beast take opportunity attacks as it moves away, potentially at advantage if creature was proned.
Favored foe works with your primal savagery.
a great multiclass with this new beastmaster option is to go into Shepard druid
Damn I hoped this was some epic Shillelagh melee build. Gotta try find some valid one.. my dm doesn't like summons. But beast pet is ok to have. Still a good vid.
Easy: Hill dwarf, 8/14/17/10/16/8, druidic warrior FS. Raise WIS, WIS, Sentinel, resilient CON, CON.
You end with 8/14/20/10/20/8, saves 5/8/11/0/5/-1, HPs 244 (+6x 1d8+5 from lvl 10 feature, which is 57 HP equivalent). beast 105 HPs on top of that. Your dmg will be liitle lower, however you are ultimate melee shillelagh ranger tank, you will knock enemies prone with beast, share spells and great thing is, your spell save DC and attack will be the highest possible (same like full casters). So if you want to deal dmg, use tactics mentioned in video - haste + nature's veil + steel wind strike + beast 2x attack (if DM allows you to use action from haste to command the beast). Or just use sahred guardian of nature + steel wind strike + order beast to attack as BA.
I hope you find this build epic enough ;-).
@@JuckiCZ Thank you. That sounds actually very fun. Never played with WIS melee build before! I wonder if it's worth of multiclassing. For example 1 level of peace domain cleric for the mega bless.
What if you'd get the find familiar spell somewhere and get the flying companion. Have the familiar do the help action, attack with advantage have your companion help action, attack again with advantage.
Seems like a pretty consistent way to get adv on ranged attacks. Could also be good for a melee STR build, so you'd still not need WIS, although using flanking would work too then.
The only real issue I can see immediately is the level 11 feature not adding anything. Maybe some multiclass would work, what do you think?
@34:52 ruclips.net/video/KRQwyw7B9rM/видео.html
What a beautiful graph, Treantmonk has done it again. In some ways this class patch feels somewhat like a 5.5e. In actuality it's the classic medium armor or heavy armor decision, this time with summoning. Familiars are great, but with companions being stronger it can challenge the dungeon master. I appreciate your expert perspective on that.
I might be missing a rules interaction here, but this build could make use of Swift Quiver. Could you not take the attack action, attack once with your bow and replace the second attack with a command for your beast to attack, then use your bonus action to attack twice with the bow?
Yeah, you could attack 5 times per round with Swift Quiver, or 4 times per round with advantage with Guardian of Nature - the latter is significantly more damage and uses a lower level slot.
@@TreantmonksTemple But it may be worth having Swift Quiver at late levels if you can spare the spells known slot. In a situation where you already have advantage, it would be excellent, way better than Guardian, and worthy of a 5th level slot. (In general though I agree Guardian of Nature will be better for this character, and really seems to be underrated, while Swift Quiver is overrated.)
But can't you already make 5 attacks per round? Your beast can attacks twice when it takes the attack action at level 11. You can sacrifice one of you attacks to command it to take the attack action and do it again as a bonus action. Unless I'm missing something, you can attack once and then have you beast can attack 4 times. So it should be 5 attacks per round with advantage with Guardian of Nature.
@@markloeffler85 like he mentioned in the video, no because your beast still only has one action per round so you can't command it twice, if you could, swift quiver would give you like 7 total attacks 😯
You turn down Druidic Warrior (Shillelagh) for it's use of the Bonus Action, but it can be used outside of combat before the fight, and even ignoring Shillelagh you still have options like Primal Savagery and Poison Spray. Would these be potential options? It would certainly let you focus on less stats which could be a bonus.
Im curious as to why you dobt use a custom background? U could have picked up more languages, or an herbalism kit to make healing potions on the cheap, or cooks Utensils to grant an additional 1hp gained per hit die for your party on short rests.
How would you pick up more languages?
@@TreantmonksTemple phb 126, "Customizing a background". You basically could have swapped that horn proficiency for a language instead.
You could call this build: The Dexy Beast
Theme song: "I'm too dexy for this shirt, for this chain shirt, I'm too dexy..."
I love how he kinda called out dungeon dudes. I like their videos also but they do take so many liberties with the rules. They also said that the familiar can do the same, attack twice, which would help me but completely goes against RAW
Agree, that sounded way too good when dungeon dudes were talking about it.
To be fair to the DD, I recall Treantmonk also questioning whether this meant you could get up to 5 attacks per round when he first considered the revised features, because it's confusing how the features should all interact, and I haven't been able to find any sage advice clarifying how it works. Also, they got corrected in the comments and acknowledged it, and felt the BM was still in the same good place even without that extra bit of oomph.
@@gregbowen2477 I'm not shitting on DD. Creatively I love their stuff more cause it gives you ideas. I'm just saying they take alot of liberties where my favorite other chris is very practical and by the books. Heard TM is doing a video with nerdarchy. Id love to see one with Dungeon dudes also
@@chrisriego8549 i like when ppl shit on dungeon dudes, they give bad info and dont research before speaking with authority on topics they clearly dont understand. not just in this case, thats the reason i dont watch them
I think DD made an honest mistake there.
@Chris, I’m generally curious. If you tried to do a Dex/Wis build but wanted a tank for a Beast Companion would you look into trying to do Share Spells with Armor of Agathys or would you look at instead doing something along the lines of Warding Bond?
Great video as always my friend.
I would definitely want something to boost durability. If you have an artillerist in the party maybe nothing more is required, but on my own, warding bond is a good bet at most levels.
God I'm looking forward to your thoughts on Aberrant Mind
Hi. I am confused by the decrease of the damage on the graph. I expected a decrease in relation to the base line, but not a decrease in actual value.
Makes no sense.
How should I deal with the fact that the starting equipement exceed his maximum's carrying capacity? Is the hunting trap important? If not , getting rid of it would fix this.
Aw man .... my interest level halved when you went Dex. Can you use polearm mastery with shillelagh, which you can cast on your quarterstaff? I'm going to make a wisdom summoner beast master ranger. It can't be any more meh than the old ranger.
How much use would you have from polearm master if you are using your bonus action for your beast?
@@andrewmcmillan229 Its fun to have options.
Sentinel looks more interesting to me, since you're not using your bonus action. Of course, it would only be interesting to use if Shillelagh has been previously cast on your quarterstaff.
If I went melee, is there an easy way to stop the Beast from eating Opportunity attacks except by blinding the enemy with Darkness + Devil’s Sight and such? Strength saving throws aren’t that likely to work
Doesn't "Specific beats general" apply to using one of your attacks and your bonus action to command your beast to take the Attack action twice? Is this the one situation where a subclass ability doesn't apply to this rule? The Attack action normally can only be used in coordination with the action you take on your turn, but this ability allows you to "...take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action" . Otherwise, how the heck have Rogues been using Dash twice, with their action and bonus action, all this time? Isn't this similar, except for the Ranger's bonus action is used for the beasts 1pt action, and then foregoing one of the Ranger's Attacks allows it to Attack again?
Do you think a druid/BM Ranger MC would be better than either class individually, or are you just watering down both. I love the idea of casting big druid spells while using the bonus action to let the beast attack. I feel like there's the potential for big time versatility.
Generally I find the best caster MC for Ranger is a dip in Cleric.
I love this! Could you do aberrant mind sorcerer next?
I'll be going over the Ranger subclasses next, but I'm trying out an aberrant mind sorcerer in a game tonight, super-excited to have a sorcerer with lots of spells known!
@@TreantmonksTemple I’m trying to play a controller build myself
@@TreantmonksTemple yeah, sorcerers got pretty buffed with TCoE, all those juicy spells and optional features, let us know how it goes :D. Do you think that the Aberrant Mind sorcerer is mechanically better than the Clockwork Soul? The features seems pretty good for the former but oh god the spell selection of the latter, trasmutation and abjuration schools (and the features are not bad either)
Can you do a full guide like this with the Drakewarden ranger
Has anyone tried to make a wisdom S.A.D. ranger using a 1 level death domain dip instead of taking druidic warrior?
I didnt get it where does the bonus action to command your companion come from. please enlighten me
Can't you combine great weapon master with steel wind strike?
The feat says "before you make a melee attack" and the spell says "make a melee spell attack"
GWM also says the attack must be made with a heavy weapon, while steel wind strike does not specify you are attacking with a weapon, only you are flourishing the weapon. Since the damage type is not the weapon's damage type, we can likely infer you aren't.
I just wanted to add something in regards to Conjure spells, something that has been confusing me for a while now. It‘s actually more of a question, really.
The conjure spells, such as Conjure Animals, might summon multiple creatures, but:
„Roll initiative for the summoned creatures AS A GROUP, which has ITS OWN turns.“ All the creatures act at the same time. They only take up a single turn. Shure, they make a lot of attacks, but you can use group combat rules for that. Why has no-one come up with a way to make those spells less bothersome, or rather, why didn‘t they add in a fix with Tasha‘s, since it‘s the great lets-add-in-things-everybody-already-knows-and-things-we-should-have-delivered-years-ago...?
Is there any benefit to Swift Quiver if you give up an attack to command the pet?
That way you can still make 3 longbow attacks and 2 pet attacks? Better than Steelwind Strike in single target situations?
I suspect the damage output of guardian of nature will be a fair bit higher, and only use a 4th level slot.
@@TreantmonksTemple maybe an option to keep in your pocket for when you already have advantage from another source?
I myself would go Ranger /oath of the ancient Palidan. I'd go dex with a spear and I'm feeling a boomerang. race halfling.for beast I'd wants blink dog but you never know how a game is gonna go.
You can't use dexterity wielding a spear...
After level 11 is it worth using one of your attacks for the beast to attack when you have to use your bonus action for something else?
I was trying to think of a case where this would be true. Couldn't think of one.
@@TreantmonksTemple Ah, thought you had the math at hand on how the damage compares between one of your attacks vs 2 of your beasts, also with swift quiver you'd still be netting an extra attack, small benefit admittedly.
@@zinglii Literally no benefit, as concentrating on Guardian of Nature straight out beats swift quiver for damage.
@@TreantmonksTemple I meant compared to not casting anything at all, still pretty useless when compared to anything else.
Nice build! How does lvl4 dmg dip below lvl3 dmg? I get it being closer to baseline but less than the previous level doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I missed something during the video.
Got it on 2nd listen. Enemy AC goes up so damage will be less than previous lvl since you hit less.
I still want to be able to attack with the standard beast with a bonus action.
Nice video as always, but can I interest you in our lord and savior, blind fighting and fog cloud levels 2-20?
Is there any way to get a combined graph with the baseline damage vs the damage output of various builds you've done? I just think it would be interesting to easily compare the progress from multiple options at once
I haven't saved the data from a lot of my previous builds.
@@TreantmonksTemple For the data from your previous builds, I can't tell if that graph is from Excel, Google Sheets, or another program; if it's from Google Sheets you can view previous versions of the document. For Excel I think that's not the default option, but I'm not sure.
On Google Sheets it would be File -> Version History
In Excel depending on the version it would either be under File -> Info -> Version History or File -> History, if it's there.
What is the "highest damage" Ranger build?
Gloomstalker..multiclass with battlemaster/assassin.
To be specific:
Get sharpshooter and elven accuracy.
Assassin 3 for 1st round auto crit and sneak attack
Battlemaster 5 for additional fighting style (superior technique), action surge, maneuvers, asi and extra attack
Gloomstalker 3 for spells, dread ambush, umbral sight, hunters mark, fighting style (archery).
Build done at level 9-11. Full build at 20:
12 battlemaster (for 3 attacks, more asi/feat, superiority dicw upgrade and more manuevers)
3 gloomstalker
5 assassin for extra sneak attack and asi/feat (like martial adept)
You are free to tweak some of the final 3 levels as long as you have 11 battlemaster, 3 gloomstalker and 3 assassin like going 5 ranger for access to 2nd level spells.
Tactic. Surprise enemy for auto crit (be in darkness + stealth).
bonus action: hunters mark
action: attack (attach maneuvers to each). Use sharpshooter. Use precision attack if you roll low on all 3 advantage die.
action surge: attack (attach maneuvers to each). Use sharpshooter. Use precision attack if you roll low on all 3 advantage die.
At level 17 thats 8 attacks on the 1st round all crit, all sharpshooter, with almost all of the attacks (7) with maneuvers plus hunters mark. Then a single attack with sneak attack and a couple with dread ambush dmg bonus. Of course you have your basic longbow dmg, dex and any bonuses from a magical bow/bracers of archery.
Gloomstalker with Sharp Shooter and 2 levels of fighter.
3 levels of Gloomstalker, 12 levels of Battlemaster, 5 levels of Warlock (PoB) {For Eldritch Smite}
@@theonlymatthew.l i like this version too though i'm a bit more partial to the assassin over hexblade. Do you go cha or stick with dex for attacking?
@@TheRobversion1 I stick with Dex. I try to minimize M.A.D as much as possible in my multiclass builds.
I usually stay away from assassin as in my experience canny DMs will limit the amount of times you get to use the assassinate ability
What build have you made with the highest consistent DPR and how much was it? I saw the assassin with the insane burst, other then that it was the arcane trickster reaching 60+. Anything higher than that?
What's everyone's favourite beast master in fiction?
And does Brock count?
Probably Jon Snow
Dar from the Beastmaster movies
It's just a shame that they didn't change the lvl 7 feature. They fixed the early game but now we have a pretty dead level on our hands.
Tbf a lot of classes have some pretty dead levels
@@Mr911superstar that's not a good excuse. why go through the effort of trying to fix the class if they're going to ignore the later levels and therefore make them worse? they shouldve been variant-ing the dead levels on other classes too.
The interest of lvl 7 feature was that you could use your bonus action to tell your beast to do something (but not Attack). Since we now use our BA even to attack, it would have been interesting if our companion could do something more on its own, without using even our BA. Like, "Beginning at 7th level, on any of your turns when your beast companion doesn’t attack, your beast can take the Dash, Disengage, or Help action on its turn in addition to Dodge." Or it could be only one of these actions (I would chose Help). So my beast could either dodge or help me or an ally if it's not attacking.
What happens when something attacks your animal companion? Does it attack back or does it just sit there until you spend actions on it or something?
It dodges unless commanded otherwise.
So if you're asleep or can't talk or something it just jumps around not attacking until it dies. That's pretty dumb.
Does it become an animal companion and then stop knowing how to attack on its own or does it learn to calculate average DPS and nerf itself voluntarily or what here?
Bad design man. It bugs me.
@@saytr4 agreed. Imo they shouldve just made it like find familiar/find steed.
Btw if you are sleeping, it can take any action as it states if you're incapacitated, it can take any action (not just dodge). So asleep=unconscious=incapacitated.
Just curious... maybe I missed it in the video... but how will you alter the build for the melee approach you refer to in the end with beast knocking opponent prone, and so on.
I would dip Cleric level 1, grab heavy armor, go str instead of dex. Grab GWM.
Player Handbook Beast Ranger - trash unless you are an expert at D&D optimization
Tasha Beast Ranger - great for beginners and optimization nerds like us
I don’t really love this Ranger class now but (and I hate to say it but) they mostly fixed it so it is playable!
Why dex melee ranger is the weakest option? from my perspective strength based is weaker because Rangers can't go heavy armor and don't get great weapon fighting, on the other hand Dex gives you better initiative and AC specially sword and board (which pairs well with a Tanky Dex-Con Ranger and have race options on going 13+Dex for potential 18 AC at lvl 1 or 8)
Sword and board and 2WF just don’t have the feat support to be considered by optimizers. Furthermore Great Weapon Fighting is an average DPR increase of +1, it’s easily replaced by almost anything else in the rest of the Ranger’s features.
To summarize, that 18 AC is meaningless next to the damage potential of the other ranger builds. Especially since D&D5e doesn’t really reward being hard to hit but does reward dealing a lot of damage.
So has anyone figured out a cool way how to do this with GWM? I suppose Tortle or vhuman with heavily armored?
I would probably dip cleric
How close are you to being able to do youtube and your own third party content full time?
Switched to FT in June 2020. Living the dream!
@@TreantmonksTemple Holy smokes. Now I'm really considering archmage subscription. I had no idea you were full time d&d. Anything in the works? Kickstarter? Releasing your own book!?! I'd buy it
C'mon someone has to come up with a good name for this character after TM neglected the Most Important Part(tm) of character building.
Can this build really compete with a fighter for damage?
You can make a fighter that does more damage. Not dramatically more, but more.
@@TreantmonksTemple I see. And presumably the Ranger is a more rounded character in terms of access to spells, saving throws, etc?
It just seems very... one-note, compared to what I've seen your Wizards builds being capable of
@@sharkforce8147 I suppose so
im confused by this vid.
Anything this build does (sharpshooter dex build), would a hunter or a gloomstalker not do it better?
This vid was about Beast Master. That's why he chose Beast Master.
I assume you mean with crossbow expert? If so the math is pretty close as they trail on Dex until 12 at which point this build is throwing on an extra attack.
@@yesanderson and he chose a valorbard and played it like a lorebard with more ac but less magical secrets.
I think that the point of the video is to make a good Beast Master, not to make the best sharpshooter build for rangers.
For instance, a sorcerer/warlock using Eldritch Blast is definitely the best combination to capitalize on the cantrip since they can quicken it, doesn't mean there is "no points" for a bard to get some levels of warlock to get eldritch blast along some invocations to round up their lacking offense and get some nice utility options.
@@TreantmonksTemple that single attack from the beast from a secondary ability matters that much?
EDIT: whoops, level 11 beast gets extra attack, nevermind
3:35 This is not true, you can cast Shillelagh on the first turn and then you can either attack yourself with your action or make your beast attack on the first round, and you can also use other cantrips like thorn whip as your action, move it closer to your beast and use a BA so the beast can attack.
Beastmaster is just upsetting after Tasha's republished sidekicks. I hope in 6e that WotC stops worrying about action economy and allows the Ranger to use a beast that doesn't use its Bonus Action every turn.
How would the primal savagery cantrip interact with the 15th level "Share Spell" class feature?
It's important to note that Bestial Fury only procs when the beast takes the Attack action. That only happens when the ranger takes the Attack action and gives up one of their attacks. You're only getting in one bow shot.
I do wonder if we've set the "baseline damage" too high, requiring most characters use their feat selections on things like sharpshooter (effective, but does not add anything interesting to the character), or forcing warlocks to take the invocation Agonizing Blast (same argument). Wouldn't we be having more interesting "character build" discussions if players were encouraged to branch out in their character vision and the DM simply adjusts combat difficulty to compensate for that? As a DM, I'm constantly adjusting difficulty anyway.
Dont knwo when you have seen a horrible optimized chara in action, its like seeing somebody singing who cant sing. You constantly have to say no you sont suck but nobody believes it. Especially bards that happens pretty often.
I quote two and a half man. If you wanted them not knowing who is winning you shouldnt have taught them to count. When charly sees the kids play soccer and the paretns decided that they dont count goals.
Well, Treantmonk is a known optimizer, no wonder he sets his standard for a build high. Though I agree, seeing the same feats and options over and over again is quite boring.
@@antongrigoryev6381 thats true but tahts not his fault that most feats are two tier lower then the good ones. Also asi at 4 and 8 forces you to substiute it for dc progression or to hit so you have to take a good one. If they just give you a feat poeple would be far more willing to take more creatove feats i guess? I think it was like this in the padt or at leadt in pathfinder game on steam and in the pillars games. Its just more fun for the player. Thats the only advantage i see inrolling. Hoghly likely you start with18-20 and can use your asis for feat. Else i find it stupid especially when the dm lets people roll untill they have 6 18s. Why not advanced point buy where you can go to 18 instead of this?
custom origin means you get darkvision
Sorry? howso?
“… you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action. You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Attack action. If you are incapacitated, the beast can take any action of its choice, not just Dodge.”
It’s very clear to me that the primal companion can make 2 attacks if you sacrifice one of your extra attacks you get at level 5. It does not say you can either use your bonus action or one of your attacks from your action, it says you can use your bonus action, also you can use one of the attacks from your action. Also doesn’t mean or, also means and.
As far as concern about your primal companion’s action economy and whether it can take two actions, it doesn’t use its own action economy unless you are incapacitated. It uses your action economy until you are incapacitated, in which case it can take its action on its own.
Hi Chris(Treantmonk), I am your fan from a long time and I write to you because I need if possible your help (anyone can suggest of course).
I will start soon a campaign with my friend (a paladin, a warrior(meelee), a warrior (arcane archer) and me) but I have problems for deciding my class.
I will be the only (we made a Homebrew rule ro limit the number of casters in party) Full CASTER and I have a concept in mind but I need your mechanical help,
I would like to build a character that is more a support like your God wizard, that has battle control, out of combat spell and situation solving capacity.
The problem is, I don't know which to choose from this classes and archetypes :
Wizard (no atchrtipe in particular)
Sorcerer (stone or divine)
Warlock(geine or celestial)
Druid (moon)
I olso did watch your video aboud spell "skinning" but I have problems to even choose the spells too... Ahaha
Can you suggest me something?
Thank your really much and I hope you will answer me.
YOUR ITALIAN FAN
Thanks for inspiring me. Now I want to play a Kenku Beastmaster themed around Ravens/Crows and my only major swap is changing out Resilient:Con for Magic Initiate: Wizard for Find Familiar (because why not have ANOTHER bird partner?)
You may want to consider Ritual Caster instead, especially if you don't have a Wizard in the party already. There's an incredible amount of versatility there.
@@boydkleen5730 I would agree, but not knowing my possible party, figured MI was better to get Minor Illusion and Light
Hey! Are you thinking of doing a Tik Tok page?
Wasn't planning on it. I'm too long-winded for Tik Tok
@@TreantmonksTemple understandable! Love your work!
A better beast master, in my opinion, uses a Giant Crab. It has good AC, better if you load it up with magic items, and the ability to grapple on an opportunity attack. So just let a blinged out Giant Crab run up and dodge (no action required by you), and then grapple enemies if they try to move away. Play as a Kobold so that your companion gives you pack tactics.
If your dm allows for feats and variant humans, this is neat. There are dms who don't for one reason or another so yeah.
I feel that while Tasha's makes the beastmaster viable, it still isn't great.
It does not look like fun to play. Especially for 20 levels. You do just that one thing, which does not actually improve that much in terms of damage not flavor. And this is Just my point of view...
question why are you right and the Dungeon Dudes wrong?
Because Dungeon Dudes wrote a comment they pinned to the video saying they made a mistake? I'm not in disagreement with DD here, I just know from the comments of my last video that a lot of their viewers didn't read their correction.
I always want to play a ranger but it always seems so underwhelming... this kinda makes it viable. Hmmm
Damage wise it's worst than the str one that was made in this channel XD
Honestly who even listens to the dungeon dudes?
Approximately 10x more people than listen to me.
@@TreantmonksTemple that's crazy. I not only prefer the quality of your content to theirs, but their cardboard read-from-script style of communicating bores me to sleep every time.
@@TreantmonksTemple I prefer content creators that seem actually interested in D&D