Thank you. I grew up in a Fundamentalist community (went to BJU). Without a doubt, my life has been horribly scarred by this. Our church was hyper dispensational, I was terrified by the thought of the rapture. If you miss the rapture, your only shot is to survive the tribulation (very unlikely). I would experience panic attacks if I came home and no one was there. I came up with ideas on how to assassinate the antichrist. And then, I thought I found a loophole in the Bible, and saved the world from the rapture when I was about ten, for a few months.
She is so right about being expected to submit to "an idea of God". Other people's ideas at that. I had an experience of God's love while still an evangelical; it was nothing like the judgemental, intolerant and angry God that I was told about. I left evangelical religion about a year later. That was almost 40 years ago.....what a ride since then ! ❤
I divorced myself from Evangelicals when they so enthusiastically embraced and supported Trump, who embodies everything that they allegedly stood for. Rank hypocrisy. I focus on following Jesus who is not surprised by hypocrites.
I was watching one video on why people leave religion. One of the factors was how sincere or hypocritical a follower felt the leaders and their fellow followers beliefs were. I think the embrace of Trump just flashes pure hypocrisy. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Trump era has been extremely bad for the number of Evangelical followers.
I rejected evangelicals when I saw people across the pulpit putting down others who followed different faiths. They are overly focused on human sexuality, no premarital sex, and alternative sexual identity. Guilt is used to control members and there is pressure to conform to an ideal type of Christian. I left and became an atheist for ten years. After a spiritual awakening, I was baptized as a Mormon. I have been involved in the church for 25 years and have seen how using God's principle of treating others changes lives. Using Christ's teachings leads to a better life.
@@BunnyWatson-k1w It's a shame that you now follow the teachings of one of the most transparent conman in history. Jews leaving to the Americas and becoming Indians? Really? A scroll of Egyptian Hieroglyphics translated into the "Book of Abraham", yet after the rosetta Stone was discovered it was translated as a funerary ceremony for a priest. The idiocy that is Mormonism is one of the reasons I don't follow any religion anymore. If so many millions can follow a clear and obvious conman who marries a 14 year old behind his wive's back, then all of Christianity, Islam and all other religions can be explained by the gullible being conned.
After 16 years of fervent evangelical "born-again" Christianity, I left it all and now refer to myself as a "died-again Christian." I feel genuine empathy for authentic Christians who sincerely try to live their faith. But the Roman Empire taught us long ago what happens when religion and state effectively merge. This present lust for political power has NOTHING to do with anything Christ taught or the subsequent religious sects ostensibly derived from his teachings would publicly teach. It has more in common with the Taliban than the Constitution. These folks who conflate their religious identification with our system of government need to get back to basics- you know, like maybe read the Sermon on the Mount every day!
It was a big turning point in my thinking as a Christian when I realized the following: Protestants do not own God, they do not own Christ, they do not own the Bible, and they do not own the truth. For me, this realization was life changing. It seems like everyone else in the comments finally figured out something was wrong and then left the faith. I, on the other hand, kept the faith and got rid of Protestantism. I still believe in God, Christ, the Bible and all that stuff. I just don't think Protestantism has much to do with God, Christ, or the Bible.
@@csouthland My shift was more complete. I began to research how the Bible came together, when the various New Testament books were written, who could have written them and who couldn't have, and who did the final curation to decide what was scripture and what wasn't. For me, the credibility of the New Testament fell apart under sincere scrutiny.
@@Runpulator I'm not the enemy of those who seek to live their lives in accordance with what little we know of the actual teachings of Jesus- I support that as a high endeavor. But I am the enemy of those who seek to use the banner of Jesus to fortify a most un-Jesus-like set of judgements. This current behavior and its pronouncements are quite reminiscent of the Holy Roman Empire and its inquisitions, as well as.... the Taliban. Let's ban books, let's ban women's sovereignty over their bodies, let's ban childless women from having the same rights as mothers, it's the TaliBAN in its US forumulation!
There are somewhere between 23,000 to 41,000 different Protestant denominations, all based upon just one book called the Bible. Over the last year there was another split in Methodist, Baptist, and the Presbyterian denominations. It would be very, very easy for a minister to pick out the scriptures that supports their own political whims and preferences, whether right, left, or center and to tell the congregation that they cannot be a Christian unless they vote for a certain political party. It seems like if Satan falsely professed to eliminated abortion if elected, there would be ministers telling their church congregations to vote for him. It's insane.
I was 30 years ahead of the curve. I grew up in the church. My parents were fervent Christians (Southern Baptists). I still appreciate many of the teachings but at some point I gave up on the dogma and the idea that an all powerful, all good supernatural deity out there has my best interests as heart. I have seen no evidence for it.
"I think Christian spirituality is moving to a third millennium theology. (...) Christianity always evolves. It's not what's wrong with Christianity, it's everything that's right with it." As an atheist, I'd like you to know that I cheered upon hearing this. I am with you, we are on the same side. As an avid reader of Rev. Shelby Spong, his book "Christianity must change or die" really shook me and because of my academic study of religion from a historical perspective, I think it's fair to say that "It's always darkest before the dawn". The anger, the rage, the hatred that we are witnessing on the "conservative christian" (both misnomers) side are so cutting, harmful, misanthropic, separatist and brutal, I cannot conceive of THAT being the way that this religion should be evolving. I am so grateful to see the rise of liberal and progressive movements within Christianity. It's at times like this that we ought to be reminded of the etymology of the word "religion". From its roots "Religio" or "religare", to bind together. It's supposed to bring people together, not tear them apart.
Cool. But Atheism is such an empty "-ism." There's no moral code or philosophy contained within it. Nothing to join one atheist to another, except non-belief. Surely, there is some other "-ism" that more precisely describes what you BELIEVE. Trump is an antiChrist. The Dems CANNOT save us. 100's of millions of Christians deceived by the False Prophets of the NAR. Matthew 24: 24. So MANY so Horribly taught. The Rapture is a LIE. "Left Behind" is ass-backward fiction. Matthew 13: 30. The devil and dragon -- Revelation 12: 12-13 -- remain on earth. Their judgement has been set for 10/10/26, They intend to absolve themselves, by proving Mankind unfit for God's Kingdom with a worldwide nuclear war: God vs God vs Not God vs No God in the Name of GAUD. THEN on 09/23.26, the Great Re-Set, when THEY unveil the NEON GAUD -- the Light Bearer of pure logic -- a sentient machine and comptroller of our currency with the Plan to Perfect Humanity. Men and women will never lie, cheat, steal, or murder again. So help us GAUD. You will be Happy. Fentanyl Euphoria for the Sunday Masses -- inspired by Huxley's SOMA, for a Brave New World Order. You WILL want more -- so do as you're told. Resistance is fatal.
Just based on the polling data, I don’t think there will any churches that don’t affirm homosexuality, within a couple more generations. Just like there are no more southern churches that openly endorse slavery. In both cases, the plain language of the scripture takes a back seat to moral progress. Oh, but the transition is messy and miserable for many.
What irony, the guy doing the interview knows very well that if he came out publically in support of Trump he would lose his friends and job…because he is part of a quasi religious high control group called liberalism. Doesn’t sound much different than being a member of a controlling religious group.
Hi fellow traveler. One concept that has intrigued me comes from Slavoj Zizek's Christian Atheism - the death of the god of the beyond. Your comment just seemed to bring this yo mind for me.
I think we are on the dawn of a new enlightenment and the changes are being severely resisted by some. Right now, we are at a tipping point, where the fight to go forward or go back is fierce and will continue for some time. Change is often very hard to accept, for it’s often an attack on their own identity.
Deconstructing from Christianity has been very healthy and liberating for me. I am a humanist and feel that the values I embrace are more rational than believing in an invisible Judge in the sky.
Years ago I was reading about cults. The book said the most common thing people do when they leave a cult is to join another cult. You left one cult (Protestantism, I presume) and then joined another (Humanism). Congratulations on finding your new cult. When you finally realize your new cult is just like your old cult I would suggest finding Christ instead this next time.
@@csouthland Humanism is not a cult.. your ego is grandstanding as having superior "knowledge" over others, which is anti human .I would suggest next time you feel like demeaning someone you know nothing about ,, to keep the Ol Pie hole closed..
Your understanding of the true God is filtered through your Earthly beliefs and experiences. God is not of religion or manmade dogma. ( God doesn't judge ..another lie we have been taught)
Watching live now. Very good. Like Sarah, I've been the gamut of Evangelical and Charismatic experiences. I have a college friend who is now a retired Episcopal Priest. I've known people who grew up Orthodox and some who converted to it. One thing is for sure and that is that the internet has made the world too small for one idea to prevail.
The key to success is to avoid religious organizations that dictate to you what they require you to believe, and become a member of a faith community that studies the Bible.
Thank you for the interview. I watch many of these types of interviews and find them thought-provoking and inspiring. This interview was helpful to me. I "deconstructed" way before it was popular. I have been a pastor for 30 years and started deconstructing 5 years into ministry. One of the significant challenges I have faced is trying to answer the "deconstruction into what question." I love the term/name that she gave as her book title. I found that to be helpful. I want to give caution about constantly "attacking" Trump because, in this election, there isn't a good person in Kamala either. I live in California, where she was an AG, and some of the things she has done are horrible and deplorable. So we need to be cautious so that it doesn't appear that the "Christian Faith" is endorsing her either. Because many will ask the same questions, we ask about Trump. How can a Christian support that person? So, I would urge caution. No, I am not a Trumper or trump fan. I enjoyed the interview - well done.
I'm firmly a follower of Christ, but I ditched evangelicalism and the church in general because of the craptastic ways they treat women. Women in general receive much more respect in secular society than they do in conservative, Christian churches. Sadly, there's been peace in keeping Christ but leaving religion.
Hi David and Sarah, Thank you for the interview and sharing its content. I found the insights and perspectives discussed in the interview to be particularly resonant and thought-provoking. The courage and determination required to move forward in the face of challenges and criticism are qualities that I admire and encourage. It was 30 years ago when I made my exit from this type of situation and have benefited greatly from doing so. I have been drawn to the contemplative and unitive aspects of Christian teachings, particularly through the Gospel, Richard Rohr, Thomas Keating, and contemplatives throughout Christian history as well as the mindfulness and Buddhist practices inspired by the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh, who was friends with the Trappist monk, Fr. Thomas Merton. I appreciate how these traditions complement each other, offering a rich and inclusive framework for the healthy interior and unitive aspects of spiritual growth and well-being. Thank you again for sharing. I plan to purchase the book presented here. In gratitude, John
@@Chicken-dq9zg Dear \[Recipient], Thank you for your kind words. I would like to share a poem with you that I find inspiring. It is a poem from Thich Nhat Hanh's book, "Peace is Every Step." Peace is every step. The shining red sun is my heart. Each flower smiles with me. How green, how fresh all that grows. How cool the wind blows. Peace is every step. It turns the endless path to joy. In gratitude, John
Left the escamgelical aka evangelical church in 1981, as i turned 15, trying to go by their flavor of morality, abstaining from masterbation.. at 15 I became tired of feeling bad about my self. I went through the agony of understanding all those promises of happieness were asinine. I started to take a "critically thinking" look at my own religious beliefs. since then, the more i critique, the more i'm convinced that it was all brainwashing a child, no matter how destructive to thoes children. One pastor that stands out was Chuck Baldwing at "crossroads baptist church in Pensacola fl. He has since moved to some place in Montana or Idaho. Perhaps he could no longer battle with those few decent folks in Pensacola, who called him out on his evil ways.
The documentaries "Jesus Camp" and "Waiting For Armageddon" were more than enough to realize how dangerous the Evangelical Movement in the United States is, and those were tame looks at the movement.
As an Ex myself, I’ve been very interested in her journey, though I find the mood music a bit too similar to what I used to do as a church keyboardist to “set the stage for God to move,” which I now know was a form of emotional manipulation. So I felt a bit of ironic creepiness while watching this.
@@davidmosesperezYeah, the music was very off putting for me, too. You played the exact kind of music used for emotional priming in megachurches and apologetics videos. Maybe a different style would be less triggering? 😅
Nice to hear about a woman's relationship with God. The key seems to be ."open up your heart now and tell me what you see. It is no surprise now what you see is me. Put God first before all things. A gentle walk alone with God. Kind interview. Thanks.
@davidmosesperez oh absolutely. I found others who believe like I do and are comfortable asking questions that are often controversial. We started our own home church. We love it
It takes the ABILITY to hold ones WORLDVIEW at sufficient distance from ones SENSE of SELF and MEANING of LIFE to BE ABLE to TRULY evaluate that WORLDVIEW Most people are unable to do this. Most people have no desire to question their worldview. Religious worldviews in particular have evolved to be comforting and make life easier. The deep imprinting that comes from religious training in childhood is very difficult to break free from. The internet and the availability of information has changed everything. We see the effects of exposure to different worldviews and the ability to do research on your own worldview in private. People are now unable to cocoon themselves in a bubble of likeminded people who all have the same worldview. Some people have the ability or are otherwise motivated to question, at least at the margins, their own worldview. Only a small subset of those are able to question/analyze the foundations of their worldview. The two of you question the margins, not the foundations. I suspect you have too much of your sense of self and the Christian worldview engrained in your interpretation of reality to ever be able to question the foundations of your worldview.
thanks for writing and weighing in with some deep thoughts and appreciate all that you said, but your suspects and conclusions about me (and Sarah, but I won't speak for her) in your last paragraph are way off. how would you EVER KNOW what I have questioned or how deep my existential process of any foundations, religious, christian, or transcendent, would or could ever be? so, your first parts intrigued me, seriously... but then your overreach on me, about my deep-insides that you KNOW NOTHING ABOUT from a cowardess RUclips name like, "semidemiurge," just made me smirk. stick to your thoughts and wonders, not your conclusions about people you know nothing about.
@@davidmosesperez You ask," how would you EVER KNOW what I have questioned or how deep my existential process of any foundations, religious, christian, or transcendent, would or could ever be?" By watching and carefully listening to your videos. One of the primary reasons I watch your interviews and appreciate the insights they give is due to the depths of the conversation and the transparency of your internal dialog. I am assuming that you are being direct and honest and not holding back. If that assumption is incorrect and you are withholding a lot of your true thoughts and struggles than yes, I may be wrong in my assessment.
@@semidemiurge - I'll answer it this way: you're not wrong about what you see in and of me. that said, that is not ALL of me. so what you see is authentic and as transparent as I can be, or choose to be. so I am glad you that comes thru, that you watch, and you get a real me... it's just not all of me. and I want you to know... I so appreciate you watching and weighing in with YOUR thoughts - they are good, it was just your conclusions about me I wanted to reply to.
@@semidemiurge - and same, my friend. your thoughts and heart have a deep grasp on things and worthy to be shared and listened to. thanks for letting me see that.
As an Ex-vangelical who after over 30 years of struggle “came-out” as Atheist, I cannot tell you how lovely this talk was. I know these feelings. I know these struggles. Thank you so much for sharing this. Really means a lot.
@@davidmosesperez Next time I’m in Nashville (which isn’t an uncommon thing), I’m gonna come visit your faith community. Keep up the TRULY needed work. Be well.
You are an excellent host. Your podcast is thoughtful, authentic and brilliant. It is healing and inviting my soul, probably many souls, to something True. Grateful for your diligence, insight and gentle spirit.
Interesting she said the church goes through a major crisis roughly every 500 years. I only realized that for myself a couple of days ago. Is it chance or is something behind it. Do such cycles happen in other religions or ideologies if they last long enough?
We were hoodwinked into believing we were sinners under a law that passed away and needed a savior who said he came for someone else, who would save us from a sin that had already been removed and a judgement that already happened and allow us into a covenant that was made with someone else. And then we woke up.
My faith is still strong, and I still love church, at least in the form I see in the New Testament. But denominations as they currently exist often get in the way. Especially in these times, where so many churches are blurring the lines between faith in Christ and political affiliation.
"My faith is still strong, and I still love church, at least in the form I see in the New Testament." Please elaborate and/or share how you see the Old Testament
@@timemaytell4669 I don’t understand your question. The Old Testament has never stopped informing us about God, His relationship with His chosen people, the nature of sin and temptation, etc. It’s never stopped being relevant. But there is no church of Christ followers in the Old Testament. When I talk about the early church, I’m referring to the structure we see in the epistles, when the disciples were planting churches and mentoring new believers. Those congregations were small, focused on living in community with each other, trying to live authentically according to scripture as viewed through the lens of Jesus’ teachings, helping the poor, the orphans and widows, and spreading the Good News about the Messiah. When I think, pray and talk about the early church, I’m contrasting it with what it has turned into over the following 2,000 years. Back then, there were no megachurches or wealthy TV pastors. The people of the Cross didn’t pass off their responsibility to the poor to huge multi-national agencies, there was no secular ownership of a huge Christian music industry, and no confusion about the role of the church in politics and earthly government.
You know I never thought I would hear someone proclaim this in my lifetime. All I can think of is "Free at last, free at last, The the Lord God almighty, I am free at last. But I was like if i can get to that point then Why am I still a Christian? If there are no absolutes or proofs why believe in Christianity at all? I started researching about how the bible was put together. How do other people besides my egocentric view? When people talk to me about the "Christian bible" instead of bible which can be the Jewish bible as well it makes me pause. So, is the NT to Jews like what the Book of Mormon is to Christians. This was a huge crack in the very foundation I have known for 40 years. OK, so that is only one node on a network of promises and truths from the bible. As I asked questions people started asking me questions I could not answer. I started researching the answers to those questions and the nodes of the the network of my Christianity started to fail one by one until the whole network crashed. I cried. It was like a death in the family. I had to look myself in the eye in a mirror and state I was no longer a Christian or I would not believe it. To this day I am still affected by my fundamentalist up bringing. If they can lie about x then they can lie about y. Then I started following money trails. My heart sunk and I felt as if I was going to physically fall to my knees in grief. I was so naive. People were doing this for money on purpose knowing what they were doing and that they were doing it for the money and the perks. I used to work and volunteer in churches and when you do that you meet a core group of people. Usually the most dedicated. I found out one of my Pastors was acting his role. I never confronted him but we looked at each other and we both knew. He knew he was going to get away with it and if I challenged him I would have been kicked out and I knew what he was doing and nodded to the fact that I know now and he can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time. When He got an offering to go to a church in Florida from Illinois he jumped at that saying "God had called" him to go there. Yeah God calls me to go to Florida too but my Husband does not believe me. lol. Now I know why Christians are called sheep. I also know that abuse continues in the church. Abuse of power status sex and money. I cannot bring myself to believe in Yahweh or Jesus any more. Not even as an abstract concept. I now consider myself a Nones, Nothing in particular. when I made that decision my mental health improved drastically. Where others see minister and peace and propinquity I now see book pimps. Hustling Pastors for money and power plays within leadership. I cannot unsee it. I wish I could. There are some great ministers and Christians out there but they are very very few and far between. Oh, and I am not perfect either and I would never say I am better but it is what it is.
@@davidmosesperez No Problem. There are others out there like me. I want them to know they are not alone or weird nor should they feel guilty about going through this.
@@Bloodreign316 Christianity is not what "Christians" do; it is what the Bible says it is. I already posted this, but here it is again: It was a big turning point in my thinking as a Christian when I realized the following: Protestants do not own God, they do not own Christ, they do not own the Bible, and they do not own the truth. For me, this realization was life changing. It seems like everyone else in the comments finally figured out something was wrong and then left the faith. I, on the other hand, kept the faith and got rid of Protestantism. I still believe in God, Christ, the Bible and all that stuff. I just don't think Protestantism has much to do with God, Christ, or the Bible.
We all have our individual faith journeys. After nearly fifty years of Pentecostal/Evangelicalism including bible school, I decided to objectively examine my beliefs. This has led me to unbelief in god. I can best describe myself as an agnostic as I see no evidence of a supreme being or the supernatural. Atheist is also a descriptive title. I see no evidence of god therefore I am an agnostic (lacking knowledge of a god). If I am asked if I believe in god the answer is 'no' therefore I am an atheist (lacking belief in god). At age 77 I have no desire whatsoever of going back to superstition.
@@davidmosesperez oh I get that people are complicated and everyone needs to take their own journey. Most of us were raised believing this stuff and were mostly wise to trust our parents. But there’s nothing wrong with hard truths. I don’t tell my kids that when I die that I’m just relocated and think I’ll see them again. You are welcome to disagree. What aspect of Christianity do you think is true, if any?
Leaving her clothes in a pile in the middle of the floor. ha ha ha... But this is the typical expectation. Why do they believe they get raptured naked? And don't they believe they get a new/perfect young body anyway?
Religion arose when people began to be too successful. Being a meaning-based species, we probably always had some kind of comprehensive theory of existence. However, once we started to be too many, humans had no choice but to compete and arraign ourselves into civilizations. Religion became the best means to engender schooling behavior in our species. Like some fish, we came to rely on massed individuals to live. Religion evolved to be the best means of social cohesion for a species that required diversity and extensive division of labor to survive in competition with rival societies. I think that atheists like me, we need to be really mindful that religion was the only social scaffolding that made states and economies possible. Gods do not exist, but as humans we found a way to make mythology a virtual place where we could all meet regardless of class, occupation, gender or age. Religion is a curated delusion that we as societies have learned to use to act more like a super organism. We must understand that religion is one of the most important BIOLOGICAL phenomena that define humanity. Mythology aka religion was an adaptation that must have been pretty fiercely selected for in the last 20-30 thousand years. Today, we can't but witness its continued success. As an example, consider Pizza Gate. This myth arose very quickly. It acquired tens, hundreds, of thousands of adherents in a short period of time. This spontaneous religion promptly dispatched gunmen to rescue non-existent children in a non-existent basement of an unremarkable restaurant. It doesn't matter that the goal of this new myth was ridiculous. What the myth actually accomplished was tremendous. It used the demonized figure of Hillary Clinton to create a great social force to wield against liberalism and progressivism. These are things they all hated as individuals, but the myth gave them all the collective organization to act against it. Myth empowers the collective. As atheists we need to understand that myth might always have the upper hand over reason because myth evolved for speed. Science led us to understand that our brain is prewired for grammar. I think that science has failed us by not helping us understand better the neural circuitry of myth, and it is very important that it catch up, very soon.
The extra rib story isn’t biblical but rather folkloric, presumably from American tradition (of the same ilk as how the fox’s tail tip is white). My mother, one of the few educated persons in my background, was among those who dared separate the folkloric and anti-intellectual elements of primitive Appalachian religion from the scholarly. Thanks to her I avoided some of the ultra fundamentalist pitfalls and rabbit holes. Here’s to those who think before they believe
For me, all religions/religious organizations are problematic not just evangelicals. I used to consider a few religions benign, but after Trump, I consider all religious beliefs problematic. There is so much mind control, grifting, and power seeking and I personally think these issues exist in all religions. My belief is they are all man made, and they are not ordained of a god. I just can’t believe in these fairytales anymore. I think you might be surprised how many eventually end up not believing in god.
The Catholic Church is a very flawed and divided institution, always was. It has very holy priests who preach the love and compassion of Christ and very unholy ones, who are hiding in there or who love power and influence. Its dogma is weird. Apart from the historical evil, like the Inquisition in Spain, it caused great trauma in Ireland in our lifetimes. It’s disturbing to see it growing so powerful in the US, mainly through Utube etc. Pope Francis is a genuinely holy, kind and compassionate leader, but he’s up against it with his enemies in the Institution who can be harsh, judgemental, misogynistic men, who love the corporal trappings of their positions and who would put the Church back to the Middle Ages. People who convert seem to admire that aspect, judging by some bishops and priests on Utube.
@@joandempsey4652 yeah it is extremely flawed ,wicked , sinful, abusive etc. And yet there in lies some of it's beauty . The hospital of sinners. Corrupt throughout from top to bottom. If any business or government was this bad it couldn't survive 1 or two generations. And yet the Catholic Church survive two millennium. Still growing, to this is supernatural .
I left the evangelical church even before Trump. However Trump was the confirmation I had made the right choice. I'll never return to the evangelical church. In fact I publicly renounce any association I ever had with it. My restitution to the public is that I'll work tirelessly to expose it as a fraud.
Those of us who drive vehicles on public streets and roads give up portions of our freedom so as to comply with laws that prevent us from crashing into each other. The Gospel of Jesus Christ does for humanity what the driving laws do for vehicle drivers. It helps us behave so as to minimize conflicts with others. A life of faith is an easier life than without.
super great question. thanks for asking. Self-agency is the ability to make choices and take actions based on personal beliefs and values. However, rigid religious doctrines can undermine self-agency by prescribing strict rules and limiting individual freedom to explore, question, and decide for oneself. When beliefs are imposed without room for personal interpretation, the capacity for self-directed decision-making and authentic living is diminished, reducing one's ability to act independently.
Jesus promised, evil will not prevail against. The question is what it is to be evangelical, with so many different churches and different leaders and different ways to read the bible. I guess to be evangelical is to be protestant. All the different nominations of evangelical are one thing only. Protestant against the Catholic church.
Self-agency. That is THE issue for some. But it is also the bane of modern American society. Americans were from the get-go independents. They were independent from the established church in England. They were independent from the political system in England. But independence has become toxic in America. That is the reason for the dysfunction of our society as seen daily on TV news. It is the problem in the evangelical church. There is, of course, destructive submission to authority and or the church. But rabid self-agency is equally destructive. Personally, I do not find any demand for unthinking submission directly or indirectly expressed in my evangelical church. But I certainly see it in some churches - and in certain political quazi religious movements such as Christian Nationalism. I recommend that people get out of those "cults" as quickly as possible. If that happens to be a church, get out. But real Christianity, evangelical or otherwise, not only expects submission to God but only works individually and as a community and society as we submit to God and his good design for life. That was the message of the founding fathers of the American democratic/republican experiment. (What is a Democracy but submission to the majority?) The rejection of submission which become a kind of reinventing the wheel is not working. Loving your neighbor as you love yourself is a far better guide to a life and a society that works.
David what is the difference between your version of protestantism and that of the evangelicals? Do you agree or dissgree on the following topics: Lgbtq Abortion Trinity Climate change Genocide in Gaza.
Mythology. Religion is 100% mythology, and we are waking up to this fact. We are ALL in the process. Some are way ahead of others, and others are way behind. There are different stages of seeing the truth of religion as mythology.
@@Bloodreign316 Hold on there, eager beaver. I merely thanked you for acknowledging that the version of a presuppositional so-called 'god' that you want everyone to believe in, is _not_ an "Omnibenevolent, All Loving God." I'm agreeing with you - and that triggers you? Let's examine that 😂 If that truth triggers you, that’s a reflection of the cracks in _your_ argument, not mine. It's telling when an honest acknowledgment of contradictions provokes such an emotional, knee-jerk reaction. I’d suggest taking a step back and reconsidering which narrative you want to stand by. My response is fine, it's yours that's, knee-jerk and reactionary pathetic 😂
@@Bloodreign316 Hold on there, eager beaver. I merely thanked you for acknowledging that the version of a presuppositional so-called 'god' that you want everyone to believe in, is _not_ an "Omnibenevolent, All Loving God." I'm agreeing with you - and that triggers you? Let's examine that 😂 If that truth triggers you, that’s a reflection of the cracks in _your_ faith and/or argument, not mine. It's telling when an honest acknowledgment of contradictions provokes such an emotional, knee-jerk reaction. I’d suggest taking a step back and reconsidering which narrative you want to stand by. My response is fine, it's yours that's merely an ad-hominem knee-jerk and reactionary response that's telling 😂 You have admitted that Christianity is a divided religion, and that there is "wrong teaching" in Christianity. That means there's division, something we already know and gleefully exploit to the hilt. As I said, Im agreeing, but not for the reasons you think! Muwaaahahaha! Couldn't resist with such a terrible example of an "Ambassador." 😉 Christianity is the world's most_divided religion,_ a religion that cannot even agree with itself on crucial core doctrines. It is divided on; Doctrines, denominations, interpretations, translations, bible versions, word meanings, denominations, dogma, attitudes, rhetoric, sects, cults and more. QUESTION: Which specific version of a presuppositional so-called god is it, that you want everyone to believe in, WHO SAYS that the version you have cherry picked and settled on for the moment, is the 100% perfectly correct version - and why should anyone care?
@@Bloodreign316 Hold on there, eager beaver. I merely thanked you for acknowledging that the version of a presuppositional so-called 'god' that you want everyone to believe in, is _not_ an "Omnibenevolent, All Loving God." I'm agreeing with you - and that triggers you? Let's examine that 😂
After 30 years of theological and religious history studies i can truly say that once you understand the history of the formation of yahwehism, you can no long hold it as true. If you do then you are lying to yourself.
8:38 Speaks volumes “ypu’re TRYING to say.” … one more patriarchal assistant for the lovely GIRL … Jews have a reformed movement that has been around 150 years. Come to the #sandfloorsynagogue in St. Thomas sometime. I will show you around. Maybe meet Rabbi Julia or her two girls.
The guy doing the interview made a big deal about religion and self-agency. Do you have self-agency at work? Not really. I have to engage in what the company considers to be professional behavior and speech. If I make certain posts on the internet I can be fired. If I engage in certain activities, even if outside of work I can be fired (take smoking pot as an example). To be a member of any group you have to curb your "self-agency" to one degree or another. It's not just religion that does this.
yeah, this is the guy doing the interview... and I did make a big deal about self-agency. but given your "work" illustration to make your point, you obviously don't understand self-agency and how dogmatic high-control religion is effect it. and I am so sorry that you work at place that robs you of self-agency... but I doubt it does... because it seems like you're not understanding what self-agency is.
@@davidmosesperez Corporate America demands tremendous conformity and the higher up you go the more true that becomes. One of the more important realizations I have had is that most groups are religious or quasi religious. MAGA, BLM, the Woke crowd, etc. They all function like religions - tell people what to believe (what is good and bad), they have an arch enemy that is responsible for great evil, etc. So, they are also all control groups. Do you want to be in Corporate America? Then there is a certain way you will have to dress (and certain ways you better not), there are certain ways you better talk (and certain ways you better not), certain books you have to read, etc. BLM is no different. The Republican Party is no different. Etc. You know damn well and good that if you come out publically in support of Trump you would lose your friends and job…because you are part of a quasi religious high control group.
@@davidmosesperez Corporate America demands tremendous conformity and the higher up you go the more true that becomes. One of the more important realizations I have had is that most groups are religious or quasi religious. MAGA, BLM, the Woke crowd, etc. They all function like religions - tell people what to believe (what is good and bad), they have an arch enemy that is responsible for great evil, etc. So, they are also all control groups. Do you want to be in Corporate America? Then there is a certain way you will have to dress (and certain ways you better not), there are certain ways you better talk (and certain ways you better not), certain books you have to read, etc. BLM is no different. The Republican Party is no different. Etc. You know that if you come out publically in support of Trump you would lose your friends and job…because you are part of a quasi religious high control group.
@@davidmosesperez I found your definition right here (see below). Looks like I git it right. "super great question. thanks for asking. Self-agency is the ability to make choices and take actions based on personal beliefs and values. However, rigid religious doctrines can undermine self-agency by prescribing strict rules and limiting individual freedom to explore, question, and decide for oneself. When beliefs are imposed without room for personal interpretation, the capacity for self-directed decision-making and authentic living is diminished, reducing one's ability to act independently." So like I said before, you know that if you come out publically in support of Trump you would lose your friends and job…because you are part of a quasi religious high control group.
@@davidmosesperez csouthland got it right. He said one of the rare things in this world that is universal, that knows no borders. Every kind of human group demands conformity from its members, otherwise, those who do not conform are quickly ostracized.
Actually the evangelicals is the new Catholic Church with a few subtle differences they are literally part of the new one world religion soon to happen
Excellent discussion. My deconstruction left me in a position where following the god of the bible is immoral, if he exists as the bible presents him. However, I don't believe any deity exists and am happy to leave that behind. Content in living my life trying to make the lives of those in my orbit better. Just wondering if you still feel a god exists and if that god is involved in your life events.
@@Bloodreign316 is god all knowing, all powerful and all loving? Did he know when he initiated creation that billions would suffer eternal torment? A resurrection after 2 or 3 days is an incredible claim. A claim that demands good evidence. The bible doesn't cut it. There were contemporary historians at that time and place and yet, none wrote of it. What good evidence do you have for a resurrection?
@@johnelliott5859 well first off, you don’t get to decide that the Bible doesn’t cut it for evidence. Many thousands of historical scholars accept the Bible as being a piece of historical evidence that keeps proving itself true as the time passes by. But you can not ignore the rise of the Christians after the death of Jesus. Why did it rise? Because hundreds or more had witnessed the resurrection and ascension of Jesus and after all the miracles that thousands had witnessed, the hundreds of prophecies that were fulfilled, it was indisputable at the time Jesus was the messiah. You also might wanna check out conditional immortality as what really happens when you don’t accept Christ.
@@Bloodreign316 According to serious scientific research, there have been approximately 117 billion births of our species since Homo sapiens first appeared on Earth, and NOT A SINGLE ONE of them has ever come back to life. If you were to ask the billions of people who have owned cats, dogs, birds, mice, hamsters, bulls, elephants, crocodiles, lions, spiders, etc., if they have ever had a pet that came back to life after it died, there is not one honest person who would say "yes.” Of the approximately 2.5 billion dinosaurs that lived before a meteorite crashed on planet Earth about 65 million years ago, not a single one came back to life, except in Steven Spielberg's Hollywood movies. Would you conclude that a vaccine was unsafe if it was administered to 117 billion people and a scientific study showed that not one of them died or experienced any side effects? Doctors would immediately send you to a mental institution if you concluded that it was unsafe. This is compelling enough evidence that if such a person like Jesus did live 2,000 years ago, the New Testament account of his "resurrection" is merely the skillful fabrication of anonymous and fraudulent authors influenced by the cultural milieu of their time. Much of the New Testament is, for lack of a better word, actually a "copy" of ancient Egyptian legends and/or Zoroastrian books, such as a prophet/God who could turn water into wine, the resurrection from the dead, the virgin birth, the Son of God dying for the souls of believers, angels and demons, the Last Judgment and life after death, symbolism and imagery, etc. Serious scholars and historians have found at least 180 similarities between the Jesus story in the Bible and those of earlier religions. In other words, the New Testament gospels are imitations based on or inspired by ancient regional myths. The good news, at least for me, is that recent polls indicate that a majority of the 67 million British (UK now has an atheist as prime minister) and 68 million French share my opinion, as well as about 28% of the American population, and the number of people who reject this childish story is steadily but slowly growing, at least in the Western world.
I think it’s funny how people say I left religion but follow Jesus. As if you can actually rationally do that. The only book that teaches of Jesus is the Bible. The gospels were not first or second hand accounts. The simple fact is that we do not know what Jesus actually said if he existed at all. Also if we are to accept that the Bible factually portrays what Jesus said, which we don’t have to because the evidence isn’t there, Jesus said some immoral things as well. Also Jesus was a Jew. He would have followed the Mosaic law. Christianity caused me to develop a panic anxiety disorder at the ripe old age of 12. I was diagnosed with religious trauma syndrome. Christianity is toxic. I disagree with the host and journalists. Religion hijacks secular principles and values and perverts them with guilt, fear, self loathing, doubt, and delusions.
Why are you playing piano music? It sounds like you’re going to give a eulogy. As if we are going to burry some one. If you want to sound professional stop the church music.
I'm a huge fan of the deconstruction movement (mostly just because we don't have evidence of any gods, so it appears to be a bad idea people are misled by), but I have to say this interview was a little painful to get through. Both the questions and answers were pretty meandering and surface level.
ok... thanks for the feedback. I've never heard my questions described as "surface level," but ok, I'll ponder that. so help me out. you seemed to have a specific thought that I can learn from: give me an example of 2 deep sagacious esoteric questions you wish Sarah and I discussed.
@@davidmosesperez 1. I'd have started with an open ended question where you let her describe the process of deconstruction, including what the goals are (which ideally should always be "truth"). 2. The second question would be to learn what that looks like specifically for an evangelical. 3. Another question might be to have them detail specific ways evangelicals manipulate people in ways that shut down this sort of serious investigation. Most who've left religion (certainly one who's written a book on it) can point to quite a few examples; things like emotional manipulation, social consequences, and information control. There are even some problems that aren't even unique to religion, like how easy it is in modern society to find yourself in echo chambers of like-minded people where dissenting opinions are simply never heard.
@@Bloodreign316 What evidence do you have of Jesus doing miracles? A scholar's opinion isn't evidence, you need actual writings at a minimum. To me it's clear that when we're talking about an all-knowing god, for that god to deliberately choose to do all-human-fakeable "miracles" (like faith-healing and misdirection; things humans regularly trick each other with), then the idea at face value is already super hard to believe. So then the fact that we don't have any evidence outside the Bible (except one text that's worded super vague like 'and Jesus is said to have done surprising things') makes the most likely explanation that this was just another example of humans tricking humans. As for prophecy, why would that indicate a god? These people *had the prophecies.* And so either (A) actually filling them and/or (B) writing that they were filled, is quite easy. I did it myself a while back when I wrote that the chosen one would eat Indian Food for lunch tomorrow, and then I ate Indian for lunch the next day. I don't really understand your Beethoven analogy, because you aren't here *slamming down strong evidence of a god,* right? So you're "playing the song" as badly as everyone else, because you aren't showing this book's claims are true.
@@Bloodreign316 What evidence of a supernatural claim did you find? Specifically supernatural claims, because verifying Harry Potter by confirming London is a real city would be pretty dishonest, agreed?
I have to disagree Paul. Leaving American Evangelicalism and Conservative Protestantism - something that is 150 years old - is not leaving Christ or Christianity. You don't sound much different than the religious leaders of 33ce or the Church leaders in 1517. I hope you'll open up to those who hold up faith, hope, and love, as much as you do, but view it only thru the lens of the 500 year old reformers.
Hey, look, an NPR person who enmeshed their own narrative into the story they're covering and came to the conclusion that left-wing politics is the one true belief. How original....
@@davidmosesperez I did. It appropriates Blake Chastain's book title to boot, which is explicitly farcical. 'Deconstructing' faith is just insufferable white liberal's form of liberation theology. You can just look at Johnathan Haidt's stats on mental health overlaid on political affiliation. If exvangelicalism was especially healthy, it'd be in the stats. It's not. Wisdom is proven to be right by what results from it....
there is your mistake: taking the bible and reducing it to American politics. Many people are seeing christianity for what it really is, a warring hateful political group much like the middle eastern version of Islam. You lost your testimony, your chance to lead and attract by example rather than law. Many people will go lost because of you. You will have much to answer for.
As someone who read the book, let me ask you, where in the book does she come to the conclusion that left-wing politics is the "one true belief"? Where in the podcast does she come to that conclusion? Or are you just filling in the blanks of what you think this book is about based upon your own personal biases.
Thank you. I grew up in a Fundamentalist community (went to BJU). Without a doubt, my life has been horribly scarred by this. Our church was hyper dispensational, I was terrified by the thought of the rapture. If you miss the rapture, your only shot is to survive the tribulation (very unlikely). I would experience panic attacks if I came home and no one was there. I came up with ideas on how to assassinate the antichrist. And then, I thought I found a loophole in the Bible, and saved the world from the rapture when I was about ten, for a few months.
She is so right about being expected to submit to "an idea of God". Other people's ideas at that. I had an experience of God's love while still an evangelical; it was nothing like the judgemental, intolerant and angry God that I was told about. I left evangelical religion about a year later. That was almost 40 years ago.....what a ride since then ! ❤
thanks for writing and sharing.
Which helps explain why evangelicals so fervently reject separation of Church and State
I divorced myself from Evangelicals when they so enthusiastically embraced and supported Trump, who embodies everything that they allegedly stood for. Rank hypocrisy. I focus on following Jesus who is not surprised by hypocrites.
all christians are hypocrits The Trumpers are the worst of that cult.
I was watching one video on why people leave religion. One of the factors was how sincere or hypocritical a follower felt the leaders and their fellow followers beliefs were. I think the embrace of Trump just flashes pure hypocrisy. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Trump era has been extremely bad for the number of Evangelical followers.
Yes. The national sin of Trumpvangelicals is HYPOCRICY.
I rejected evangelicals when I saw people across the pulpit putting down others who followed different faiths. They are overly focused on human sexuality, no premarital sex, and alternative sexual identity. Guilt is used to control members and there is pressure to conform to an ideal type of Christian.
I left and became an atheist for ten years. After a spiritual awakening, I was baptized as a Mormon. I have been involved in the church for 25 years and have seen how using God's principle of treating others changes lives. Using Christ's teachings leads to a better life.
@@BunnyWatson-k1w It's a shame that you now follow the teachings of one of the most transparent conman in history. Jews leaving to the Americas and becoming Indians? Really? A scroll of Egyptian Hieroglyphics translated into the "Book of Abraham", yet after the rosetta Stone was discovered it was translated as a funerary ceremony for a priest.
The idiocy that is Mormonism is one of the reasons I don't follow any religion anymore. If so many millions can follow a clear and obvious conman who marries a 14 year old behind his wive's back, then all of Christianity, Islam and all other religions can be explained by the gullible being conned.
GOOD. This should be done all over the place.
It's a cult, like MAGA
After 16 years of fervent evangelical "born-again" Christianity, I left it all and now refer to myself as a "died-again Christian." I feel genuine empathy for authentic Christians who sincerely try to live their faith. But the Roman Empire taught us long ago what happens when religion and state effectively merge. This present lust for political power has NOTHING to do with anything Christ taught or the subsequent religious sects ostensibly derived from his teachings would publicly teach. It has more in common with the Taliban than the Constitution. These folks who conflate their religious identification with our system of government need to get back to basics- you know, like maybe read the Sermon on the Mount every day!
and let me add... The Beatitudes.
It was a big turning point in my thinking as a Christian when I realized the following: Protestants do not own God, they do not own Christ, they do not own the Bible, and they do not own the truth.
For me, this realization was life changing. It seems like everyone else in the comments finally figured out something was wrong and then left the faith. I, on the other hand, kept the faith and got rid of Protestantism. I still believe in God, Christ, the Bible and all that stuff. I just don't think Protestantism has much to do with God, Christ, or the Bible.
@@csouthland My shift was more complete. I began to research how the Bible came together, when the various New Testament books were written, who could have written them and who couldn't have, and who did the final curation to decide what was scripture and what wasn't. For me, the credibility of the New Testament fell apart under sincere scrutiny.
When Christianity became Trump, I quit the religion and am now it's counter radicalized enemy forever.
@@Runpulator I'm not the enemy of those who seek to live their lives in accordance with what little we know of the actual teachings of Jesus- I support that as a high endeavor. But I am the enemy of those who seek to use the banner of Jesus to fortify a most un-Jesus-like set of judgements. This current behavior and its pronouncements are quite reminiscent of the Holy Roman Empire and its inquisitions, as well as.... the Taliban. Let's ban books, let's ban women's sovereignty over their bodies, let's ban childless women from having the same rights as mothers, it's the TaliBAN in its US forumulation!
The attempt to Politicize it is why it is failing. "Let's help each other cope with life" and "Let's rule the World" have different attractions.
There are somewhere between 23,000 to 41,000 different Protestant denominations, all based upon just one book called the Bible. Over the last year there was another split in Methodist, Baptist, and the Presbyterian denominations. It would be very, very easy for a minister to pick out the scriptures that supports their own political whims and preferences, whether right, left, or center and to tell the congregation that they cannot be a Christian unless they vote for a certain political party. It seems like if Satan falsely professed to eliminated abortion if elected, there would be ministers telling their church congregations to vote for him. It's insane.
I was 30 years ahead of the curve. I grew up in the church. My parents were fervent Christians (Southern Baptists). I still appreciate many of the teachings but at some point I gave up on the dogma and the idea that an all powerful, all good supernatural deity out there has my best interests as heart. I have seen no evidence for it.
Thank you for this interview... I am a JW and Mexican barely born in Texas, but,it is a beautiful thing to be self-aware of my spirituality
"I think Christian spirituality is moving to a third millennium theology. (...) Christianity always evolves. It's not what's wrong with Christianity, it's everything that's right with it."
As an atheist, I'd like you to know that I cheered upon hearing this. I am with you, we are on the same side. As an avid reader of Rev. Shelby Spong, his book "Christianity must change or die" really shook me and because of my academic study of religion from a historical perspective, I think it's fair to say that "It's always darkest before the dawn". The anger, the rage, the hatred that we are witnessing on the "conservative christian" (both misnomers) side are so cutting, harmful, misanthropic, separatist and brutal, I cannot conceive of THAT being the way that this religion should be evolving. I am so grateful to see the rise of liberal and progressive movements within Christianity.
It's at times like this that we ought to be reminded of the etymology of the word "religion". From its roots "Religio" or "religare", to bind together. It's supposed to bring people together, not tear them apart.
Cool. But Atheism is such an empty "-ism." There's no moral code or philosophy contained within it. Nothing to join one atheist to another, except non-belief. Surely, there is some other "-ism" that more precisely describes what you BELIEVE.
Trump is an antiChrist. The Dems CANNOT save us. 100's of millions of Christians deceived by the False Prophets of the NAR. Matthew 24: 24. So MANY so Horribly taught. The Rapture is a LIE. "Left Behind" is ass-backward fiction. Matthew 13: 30.
The devil and dragon -- Revelation 12: 12-13 -- remain on earth. Their judgement has been set for 10/10/26, They intend to absolve themselves, by proving Mankind unfit for God's Kingdom with a worldwide nuclear war: God vs God vs Not God vs No God in the Name of GAUD. THEN on 09/23.26, the Great Re-Set, when THEY unveil the NEON GAUD -- the Light Bearer of pure logic -- a sentient machine and comptroller of our currency with the Plan to Perfect Humanity.
Men and women will never lie, cheat, steal, or murder again. So help us GAUD. You will be Happy. Fentanyl Euphoria for the Sunday Masses -- inspired by Huxley's SOMA, for a Brave New World Order. You WILL want more -- so do as you're told. Resistance is fatal.
Just based on the polling data, I don’t think there will any churches that don’t affirm homosexuality, within a couple more generations. Just like there are no more southern churches that openly endorse slavery.
In both cases, the plain language of the scripture takes a back seat to moral progress. Oh, but the transition is messy and miserable for many.
What irony, the guy doing the interview knows very well that if he came out publically in support of Trump he would lose his friends and job…because he is part of a quasi religious high control group called liberalism.
Doesn’t sound much different than being a member of a controlling religious group.
Hi fellow traveler. One concept that has intrigued me comes from Slavoj Zizek's Christian Atheism - the death of the god of the beyond. Your comment just seemed to bring this yo mind for me.
I think we are on the dawn of a new enlightenment and the changes are being severely resisted by some. Right now, we are at a tipping point, where the fight to go forward or go back is fierce and will continue for some time. Change is often very hard to accept, for it’s often an attack on their own identity.
As an exvangelical myself looking forward to watching this.
Thank you.
Deconstructing from Christianity has been very healthy and liberating for me. I am a humanist and feel that the values I embrace are more rational than believing in an invisible Judge in the sky.
so glad you're finding health and liberation.
Do you think that there are any beings in existence whose intelligence is greater than your own and who might they be?
Years ago I was reading about cults. The book said the most common thing people do when they leave a cult is to join another cult. You left one cult (Protestantism, I presume) and then joined another (Humanism).
Congratulations on finding your new cult.
When you finally realize your new cult is just like your old cult I would suggest finding Christ instead this next time.
@@csouthland Humanism is not a cult.. your ego is grandstanding as having superior "knowledge" over others, which is anti human .I would suggest next time you feel like demeaning someone you know nothing about ,, to keep the Ol Pie hole closed..
Your understanding of the true God is filtered through your Earthly beliefs and experiences. God is not of religion or manmade dogma. ( God doesn't judge ..another lie we have been taught)
Watching live now. Very good. Like Sarah, I've been the gamut of Evangelical and Charismatic experiences. I have a college friend who is now a retired Episcopal Priest. I've known people who grew up Orthodox and some who converted to it. One thing is for sure and that is that the internet has made the world too small for one idea to prevail.
Very nice: "One thing is for sure and that is that the internet has made the world too small for one idea to prevail."
thanks for watching. and indeed, to your point.
When Christianity became Trump, I quit the religion and am now its counter-radicalized enemy forever.
The key to success is to avoid religious organizations that dictate to you what they require you to believe, and become a member of a faith community that studies the Bible.
Her book was GREAT! Highly recommend. 5 star!
Thank you for the interview. I watch many of these types of interviews and find them thought-provoking and inspiring. This interview was helpful to me. I "deconstructed" way before it was popular. I have been a pastor for 30 years and started deconstructing 5 years into ministry. One of the significant challenges I have faced is trying to answer the "deconstruction into what question." I love the term/name that she gave as her book title. I found that to be helpful. I want to give caution about constantly "attacking" Trump because, in this election, there isn't a good person in Kamala either. I live in California, where she was an AG, and some of the things she has done are horrible and deplorable. So we need to be cautious so that it doesn't appear that the "Christian Faith" is endorsing her either. Because many will ask the same questions, we ask about Trump. How can a Christian support that person? So, I would urge caution. No, I am not a Trumper or trump fan. I enjoyed the interview - well done.
thank you so much and thank you for watching.
I'm firmly a follower of Christ, but I ditched evangelicalism and the church in general because of the craptastic ways they treat women. Women in general receive much more respect in secular society than they do in conservative, Christian churches. Sadly, there's been peace in keeping Christ but leaving religion.
Glad people have woken up and are leaving this toxic cult
Hi David and Sarah,
Thank you for the interview and sharing its content. I found the insights and perspectives discussed in the interview to be particularly resonant and thought-provoking. The courage and determination required to move forward in the face of challenges and criticism are qualities that I admire and encourage. It was 30 years ago when I made my exit from this type of situation and have benefited greatly from doing so.
I have been drawn to the contemplative and unitive aspects of Christian teachings, particularly through the Gospel, Richard Rohr, Thomas Keating, and contemplatives throughout Christian history as well as the mindfulness and Buddhist practices inspired by the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh, who was friends with the Trappist monk, Fr. Thomas Merton. I appreciate how these traditions complement each other, offering a rich and inclusive framework for the healthy interior and unitive aspects of spiritual growth and well-being.
Thank you again for sharing. I plan to purchase the book presented here.
In gratitude, John
thanks for watching John, thanks for sharing a bit of your story, and thanks for the kind words.
John, You write so eloquently! Your comment struck me as it seemed so peaceful and with intention.
@@Chicken-dq9zg Dear \[Recipient],
Thank you for your kind words. I would like to share a poem with you that I find inspiring. It is a poem from Thich Nhat Hanh's book, "Peace is Every Step."
Peace is every step.
The shining red sun is my heart.
Each flower smiles with me.
How green, how fresh all that grows.
How cool the wind blows.
Peace is every step.
It turns the endless path to joy.
In gratitude, John
As a recovering "Southern Baptist," it's a wonderful feeling that I don't belong to a group of people who worship Donald Trump.
Amen
There is a saying that "everything Trump touches turns to shit". He has now contaminated the Evangelical movement.
Left the escamgelical aka evangelical church in 1981, as i turned 15, trying to go by their flavor of morality, abstaining from masterbation.. at 15 I became tired of feeling bad about my self. I went through the agony of understanding all those promises of happieness were asinine. I started to take a "critically thinking" look at my own religious beliefs. since then, the more i critique, the more i'm convinced that it was all brainwashing a child, no matter how destructive to thoes children. One pastor that stands out was Chuck Baldwing at "crossroads baptist church in Pensacola fl. He has since moved to some place in Montana or Idaho. Perhaps he could no longer battle with those few decent folks in Pensacola, who called him out on his evil ways.
The documentaries "Jesus Camp" and "Waiting For Armageddon" were more than enough to realize how dangerous the Evangelical Movement in the United States is, and those were tame looks at the movement.
As an Ex myself, I’ve been very interested in her journey, though I find the mood music a bit too similar to what I used to do as a church keyboardist to “set the stage for God to move,” which I now know was a form of emotional manipulation. So I felt a bit of ironic creepiness while watching this.
thanks for the input and certainly didn't mean to trigger anything negative for you.
@@davidmosesperezYeah, the music was very off putting for me, too. You played the exact kind of music used for emotional priming in megachurches and apologetics videos. Maybe a different style would be less triggering? 😅
And this is good! ❤
Nice to hear about a woman's relationship with God. The key seems to be ."open up your heart now and tell me what you see. It is no surprise now what you see is me. Put God first before all things. A gentle walk alone with God. Kind interview. Thanks.
I am still a Christian but went through a big deconstruction.... and then got kicked out of my church lol
And sadly... that is a common story. I hope thru the pain of that, you're also experienced freedom.
@davidmosesperez oh absolutely. I found others who believe like I do and are comfortable asking questions that are often controversial. We started our own home church. We love it
It takes the ABILITY
to hold ones WORLDVIEW
at sufficient distance from ones SENSE of SELF and MEANING of LIFE
to BE ABLE to
TRULY evaluate that WORLDVIEW
Most people are unable to do this.
Most people have no desire to question their worldview.
Religious worldviews in particular have evolved to be comforting and make life easier.
The deep imprinting that comes from religious training in childhood is very difficult to break free from.
The internet and the availability of information has changed everything.
We see the effects of exposure to different worldviews and the ability to do research on your own worldview in private.
People are now unable to cocoon themselves in a bubble of likeminded people who all have the same worldview.
Some people have the ability or are otherwise motivated to question, at least at the margins, their own worldview.
Only a small subset of those are able to question/analyze the foundations of their worldview.
The two of you question the margins, not the foundations. I suspect you have too much of your sense of self and the Christian worldview engrained in your interpretation of reality to ever be able to question the foundations of your worldview.
thanks for writing and weighing in with some deep thoughts and appreciate all that you said, but your suspects and conclusions about me (and Sarah, but I won't speak for her) in your last paragraph are way off. how would you EVER KNOW what I have questioned or how deep my existential process of any foundations, religious, christian, or transcendent, would or could ever be? so, your first parts intrigued me, seriously... but then your overreach on me, about my deep-insides that you KNOW NOTHING ABOUT from a cowardess RUclips name like, "semidemiurge," just made me smirk. stick to your thoughts and wonders, not your conclusions about people you know nothing about.
@@davidmosesperez You ask," how would you EVER KNOW what I have questioned or how deep my existential process of any foundations, religious, christian, or transcendent, would or could ever be?"
By watching and carefully listening to your videos. One of the primary reasons I watch your interviews and appreciate the insights they give is due to the depths of the conversation and the transparency of your internal dialog. I am assuming that you are being direct and honest and not holding back. If that assumption is incorrect and you are withholding a lot of your true thoughts and struggles than yes, I may be wrong in my assessment.
@@semidemiurge - I'll answer it this way: you're not wrong about what you see in and of me. that said, that is not ALL of me. so what you see is authentic and as transparent as I can be, or choose to be. so I am glad you that comes thru, that you watch, and you get a real me... it's just not all of me.
and I want you to know... I so appreciate you watching and weighing in with YOUR thoughts - they are good, it was just your conclusions about me I wanted to reply to.
@@davidmosesperez Understood. Thanks for what you do, it is very much appreciated...and needed.
@@semidemiurge - and same, my friend. your thoughts and heart have a deep grasp on things and worthy to be shared and listened to. thanks for letting me see that.
As an Ex-vangelical who after over 30 years of struggle “came-out” as Atheist, I cannot tell you how lovely this talk was.
I know these feelings. I know these struggles.
Thank you so much for sharing this.
Really means a lot.
awww Matt... so glad it meant something to you and I hope in someway healing and affirming. thanks for the authentic comment.
@@davidmosesperez Next time I’m in Nashville (which isn’t an uncommon thing), I’m gonna come visit your faith community.
Keep up the TRULY needed work.
Be well.
@@MattFisherlawvol - THX MATT, and when you do please come up and say hello.
Great interview. Just bought the book. Cant wait to read it.
You are an excellent host. Your podcast is thoughtful, authentic and brilliant. It is healing and inviting my soul, probably many souls, to something True. Grateful for your diligence, insight and gentle spirit.
awww... that is very kind of you, Kim. thanks for that and thanks for watching.
Interesting she said the church goes through a major crisis roughly every 500 years. I only realized that for myself a couple of days ago.
Is it chance or is something behind it. Do such cycles happen in other religions or ideologies if they last long enough?
read the late Phyllis Tickle's book: The Great Emergence.
We were hoodwinked into believing we were sinners under a law that passed away and needed a savior who said he came for someone else, who would save us from a sin that had already been removed and a judgement that already happened and allow us into a covenant that was made with someone else. And then we woke up.
My faith is still strong, and I still love church, at least in the form I see in the New Testament. But denominations as they currently exist often get in the way. Especially in these times, where so many churches are blurring the lines between faith in Christ and political affiliation.
"My faith is still strong, and I still love church, at least in the form I see in the New Testament." Please elaborate and/or share how you see the Old Testament
@@timemaytell4669 I don’t understand your question. The Old Testament has never stopped informing us about God, His relationship with His chosen people, the nature of sin and temptation, etc. It’s never stopped being relevant. But there is no church of Christ followers in the Old Testament. When I talk about the early church, I’m referring to the structure we see in the epistles, when the disciples were planting churches and mentoring new believers.
Those congregations were small, focused on living in community with each other, trying to live authentically according to scripture as viewed through the lens of Jesus’ teachings, helping the poor, the orphans and widows, and spreading the Good News about the Messiah.
When I think, pray and talk about the early church, I’m contrasting it with what it has turned into over the following 2,000 years. Back then, there were no megachurches or wealthy TV pastors. The people of the Cross didn’t pass off their responsibility to the poor to huge multi-national agencies, there was no secular ownership of a huge Christian music industry, and no confusion about the role of the church in politics and earthly government.
eXvangelical. This is how I have self identified for years. Now there's a book about me and my ilk. I must read it 😀
I think your words speak for a lot of people. yes, it's great healing read.
This is such fantastic news
You know I never thought I would hear someone proclaim this in my lifetime. All I can think of is "Free at last, free at last, The the Lord God almighty, I am free at last. But I was like if i can get to that point then Why am I still a Christian? If there are no absolutes or proofs why believe in Christianity at all? I started researching about how the bible was put together. How do other people besides my egocentric view? When people talk to me about the "Christian bible" instead of bible which can be the Jewish bible as well it makes me pause. So, is the NT to Jews like what the Book of Mormon is to Christians. This was a huge crack in the very foundation I have known for 40 years. OK, so that is only one node on a network of promises and truths from the bible. As I asked questions people started asking me questions I could not answer. I started researching the answers to those questions and the nodes of the the network of my Christianity started to fail one by one until the whole network crashed. I cried. It was like a death in the family. I had to look myself in the eye in a mirror and state I was no longer a Christian or I would not believe it. To this day I am still affected by my fundamentalist up bringing. If they can lie about x then they can lie about y. Then I started following money trails. My heart sunk and I felt as if I was going to physically fall to my knees in grief. I was so naive. People were doing this for money on purpose knowing what they were doing and that they were doing it for the money and the perks. I used to work and volunteer in churches and when you do that you meet a core group of people. Usually the most dedicated. I found out one of my Pastors was acting his role. I never confronted him but we looked at each other and we both knew. He knew he was going to get away with it and if I challenged him I would have been kicked out and I knew what he was doing and nodded to the fact that I know now and he can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time. When He got an offering to go to a church in Florida from Illinois he jumped at that saying "God had called" him to go there. Yeah God calls me to go to Florida too but my Husband does not believe me. lol. Now I know why Christians are called sheep. I also know that abuse continues in the church. Abuse of power status sex and money. I cannot bring myself to believe in Yahweh or Jesus any more. Not even as an abstract concept. I now consider myself a Nones, Nothing in particular. when I made that decision my mental health improved drastically. Where others see minister and peace and propinquity I now see book pimps. Hustling Pastors for money and power plays within leadership. I cannot unsee it. I wish I could. There are some great ministers and Christians out there but they are very very few and far between. Oh, and I am not perfect either and I would never say I am better but it is what it is.
thanks for sharing your story and thanks for watching.
@@davidmosesperez No Problem. There are others out there like me. I want them to know they are not alone or weird nor should they feel guilty about going through this.
@@Bloodreign316 Christianity is not what "Christians" do; it is what the Bible says it is.
I already posted this, but here it is again:
It was a big turning point in my thinking as a Christian when I realized the following: Protestants do not own God, they do not own Christ, they do not own the Bible, and they do not own the truth.
For me, this realization was life changing. It seems like everyone else in the comments finally figured out something was wrong and then left the faith. I, on the other hand, kept the faith and got rid of Protestantism. I still believe in God, Christ, the Bible and all that stuff. I just don't think Protestantism has much to do with God, Christ, or the Bible.
We all have our individual faith journeys. After nearly fifty years of Pentecostal/Evangelicalism including bible school, I decided to objectively examine my beliefs. This has led me to unbelief in god. I can best describe myself as an agnostic as I see no evidence of a supreme being or the supernatural. Atheist is also a descriptive title. I see no evidence of god therefore I am an agnostic (lacking knowledge of a god). If I am asked if I believe in god the answer is 'no' therefore I am an atheist (lacking belief in god). At age 77 I have no desire whatsoever of going back to superstition.
I cannot stress this strongly enough: Get Rid of the Background music.
Great conversation! Also: great hair, pastor!
The guy who made Veggie Tales is an Exvangelical. You finally found it. I have been waiting for this to become newsworthy. It needs more exposure.
It doesn’t take much searching to find that Christianity is not ultimately true. Finding the courage to question is often harder to do.
asking questions that challenge anything, is always harder, and more daring and spiritual, than just offering dogmatic answers.
@@davidmosesperez oh I get that people are complicated and everyone needs to take their own journey. Most of us were raised believing this stuff and were mostly wise to trust our parents. But there’s nothing wrong with hard truths. I don’t tell my kids that when I die that I’m just relocated and think I’ll see them again. You are welcome to disagree.
What aspect of Christianity do you think is true, if any?
The mother that staged the rapture to play a "joke" on her daughter is cruel.
Indeed X's 10.
Leaving her clothes in a pile in the middle of the floor. ha ha ha... But this is the typical expectation. Why do they believe they get raptured naked? And don't they believe they get a new/perfect young body anyway?
Religion arose when people began to be too successful. Being a meaning-based species, we probably always had some kind of comprehensive theory of existence. However, once we started to be too many, humans had no choice but to compete and arraign ourselves into civilizations. Religion became the best means to engender schooling behavior in our species. Like some fish, we came to rely on massed individuals to live. Religion evolved to be the best means of social cohesion for a species that required diversity and extensive division of labor to survive in competition with rival societies.
I think that atheists like me, we need to be really mindful that religion was the only social scaffolding that made states and economies possible. Gods do not exist, but as humans we found a way to make mythology a virtual place where we could all meet regardless of class, occupation, gender or age. Religion is a curated delusion that we as societies have learned to use to act more like a super organism. We must understand that religion is one of the most important BIOLOGICAL phenomena that define humanity.
Mythology aka religion was an adaptation that must have been pretty fiercely selected for in the last 20-30 thousand years. Today, we can't but witness its continued success. As an example, consider Pizza Gate. This myth arose very quickly. It acquired tens, hundreds, of thousands of adherents in a short period of time. This spontaneous religion promptly dispatched gunmen to rescue non-existent children in a non-existent basement of an unremarkable restaurant.
It doesn't matter that the goal of this new myth was ridiculous. What the myth actually accomplished was tremendous. It used the demonized figure of Hillary Clinton to create a great social force to wield against liberalism and progressivism. These are things they all hated as individuals, but the myth gave them all the collective organization to act against it. Myth empowers the collective.
As atheists we need to understand that myth might always have the upper hand over reason because myth evolved for speed. Science led us to understand that our brain is prewired for grammar. I think that science has failed us by not helping us understand better the neural circuitry of myth, and it is very important that it catch up, very soon.
The extra rib story isn’t biblical but rather folkloric, presumably from American tradition
(of the same ilk as how the fox’s tail tip is white).
My mother, one of the few educated persons in my background, was among those who dared separate the folkloric and anti-intellectual elements of primitive Appalachian religion from the scholarly. Thanks to her I avoided some of the ultra fundamentalist pitfalls and rabbit holes.
Here’s to those who think before they believe
Indeed... and I don't thing any faith or religion should create any kind of intellectual shame. cheers to your mother.
Good for you, Sarah!!!! I grew Up Catholic, but I am Not interested in
most are going Catholic and Orthodox, not atheist
For me, all religions/religious organizations are problematic not just evangelicals. I used to consider a few religions benign, but after Trump, I consider all religious beliefs problematic. There is so much mind control, grifting, and power seeking and I personally think these issues exist in all religions. My belief is they are all man made, and they are not ordained of a god. I just can’t believe in these fairytales anymore. I think you might be surprised how many eventually end up not believing in god.
@@Chicken-dq9zg what just like socialism?
The Catholic Church is a very flawed and divided institution, always was. It has very holy priests who preach the love and compassion of Christ and very unholy ones, who are hiding in there or who love power and influence. Its dogma is weird. Apart from the historical evil, like the Inquisition in Spain, it caused great trauma in Ireland in our lifetimes. It’s disturbing to see it growing so powerful in the US, mainly through Utube etc. Pope Francis is a genuinely holy, kind and compassionate leader, but he’s up against it with his enemies in the Institution who can be harsh, judgemental, misogynistic men, who love the corporal trappings of their positions and who would put the Church back to the Middle Ages. People who convert seem to admire that aspect, judging by some bishops and priests on Utube.
@@joandempsey4652 yeah it is extremely flawed ,wicked , sinful, abusive etc. And yet there in lies some of it's beauty . The hospital of sinners. Corrupt throughout from top to bottom. If any business or government was this bad it couldn't survive 1 or two generations. And yet the Catholic Church survive two millennium. Still growing, to this is supernatural .
I left the evangelical church even before Trump. However Trump was the confirmation I had made the right choice. I'll never return to the evangelical church. In fact I publicly renounce any association I ever had with it. My restitution to the public is that I'll work tirelessly to expose it as a fraud.
thanks for writing in Lynn.
the music is distracting … why ?
They just don't want to eat cats anymore. Heck, all this time I've been eating CATsup and thinking it was made from TOMATOES!
That’s fine. Just don’t abandon Yeshua!
Those of us who drive vehicles on public streets and roads give up portions of our freedom so as to comply with laws that prevent us from crashing into each other.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ does for humanity what the driving laws do for vehicle drivers. It helps us behave so as to minimize conflicts with others. A life of faith is an easier life than without.
That’s true if you’re talking about Christian philosophy rather than the superstitions. Buddhist philosophy also teaches how to live well.
What exactly is ‘self agency’?
super great question. thanks for asking. Self-agency is the ability to make choices and take actions based on personal beliefs and values. However, rigid religious doctrines can undermine self-agency by prescribing strict rules and limiting individual freedom to explore, question, and decide for oneself. When beliefs are imposed without room for personal interpretation, the capacity for self-directed decision-making and authentic living is diminished, reducing one's ability to act independently.
how's that? - thank you internet.
Actually, millions are leaving the pagan-atheist movement for a relationship with Christ!
I found Messiah, so I don't need the religion of Christianity, he is enough. JOSHUA CHRIST IS LORD
Brian?
What a weird comment. Makes no sense at all.
@@tomy8339 Monty Python joke.
@@jeremywvarietyofviewpoints3104 He's a very bad boy!
Nice glasses.
thanks. they help me see, too.
Jesus promised, evil will not prevail against. The question is what it is to be evangelical, with so many different churches and different leaders and different ways to read the bible. I guess to be evangelical is to be protestant. All the different nominations of evangelical are one thing only. Protestant against the Catholic church.
Self-agency. That is THE issue for some. But it is also the bane of modern American society. Americans were from the get-go independents. They were independent from the established church in England. They were independent from the political system in England. But independence has become toxic in America. That is the reason for the dysfunction of our society as seen daily on TV news. It is the problem in the evangelical church.
There is, of course, destructive submission to authority and or the church. But rabid self-agency is equally destructive.
Personally, I do not find any demand for unthinking submission directly or indirectly expressed in my evangelical church. But I certainly see it in some churches - and in certain political quazi religious movements such as Christian Nationalism.
I recommend that people get out of those "cults" as quickly as possible. If that happens to be a church, get out.
But real Christianity, evangelical or otherwise, not only expects submission to God but only works individually and as a community and society as we submit to God and his good design for life. That was the message of the founding fathers of the American democratic/republican experiment. (What is a Democracy but submission to the majority?) The rejection of submission which become a kind of reinventing the wheel is not working. Loving your neighbor as you love yourself is a far better guide to a life and a society that works.
David what is the difference between your version of protestantism and that of the evangelicals? Do you agree or dissgree on the following topics:
Lgbtq
Abortion
Trinity
Climate change
Genocide in Gaza.
Mythology. Religion is 100% mythology, and we are waking up to this fact. We are ALL in the process. Some are way ahead of others, and others are way behind. There are different stages of seeing the truth of religion as mythology.
thanks for weighing in Pamela. I think you are right that we are all in-process. and isn't that part of the joy of life - that we get to do that?
@@Bloodreign316 Thanks for admitting the omnibenevolent, all loving version of God that you want everyone to believe in, is actually not all loving.
@@Bloodreign316 Hold on there, eager beaver. I merely thanked you for acknowledging that the version of a presuppositional so-called 'god' that you want everyone to believe in, is _not_ an "Omnibenevolent, All Loving God." I'm agreeing with you - and that triggers you?
Let's examine that 😂
If that truth triggers you, that’s a reflection of the cracks in _your_ argument, not mine. It's telling when an honest acknowledgment of contradictions provokes such an emotional, knee-jerk reaction. I’d suggest taking a step back and reconsidering which narrative you want to stand by.
My response is fine, it's yours that's, knee-jerk and reactionary pathetic 😂
@@Bloodreign316 Hold on there, eager beaver. I merely thanked you for acknowledging that the version of a presuppositional so-called 'god' that you want everyone to believe in, is _not_ an "Omnibenevolent, All Loving God."
I'm agreeing with you - and that triggers you? Let's examine that 😂
If that truth triggers you, that’s a reflection of the cracks in _your_ faith and/or argument, not mine.
It's telling when an honest acknowledgment of contradictions provokes such an emotional, knee-jerk reaction. I’d suggest taking a step back and reconsidering which narrative you want to stand by.
My response is fine, it's yours that's merely an ad-hominem knee-jerk and reactionary response that's telling 😂
You have admitted that Christianity is a divided religion, and that there is "wrong teaching" in Christianity. That means there's division, something we already know and gleefully exploit to the hilt.
As I said, Im agreeing, but not for the reasons you think! Muwaaahahaha! Couldn't resist with such a terrible example of an "Ambassador." 😉
Christianity is the world's most_divided religion,_ a religion that cannot even agree with itself on crucial core doctrines. It is divided on;
Doctrines, denominations, interpretations, translations, bible versions, word meanings, denominations, dogma, attitudes, rhetoric, sects, cults and more.
QUESTION: Which specific version of a presuppositional so-called god is it, that you want everyone to believe in, WHO SAYS that the version you have cherry picked and settled on for the moment, is the 100% perfectly correct version - and why should anyone care?
@@Bloodreign316 Hold on there, eager beaver. I merely thanked you for acknowledging that the version of a presuppositional so-called 'god' that you want everyone to believe in, is _not_ an "Omnibenevolent, All Loving God."
I'm agreeing with you - and that triggers you? Let's examine that 😂
After 30 years of theological and religious history studies i can truly say that once you understand the history of the formation of yahwehism, you can no long hold it as true. If you do then you are lying to yourself.
8:38 Speaks volumes “ypu’re TRYING to say.” … one more patriarchal assistant for the lovely GIRL … Jews have a reformed movement that has been around 150 years. Come to the #sandfloorsynagogue in St. Thomas sometime. I will show you around. Maybe meet Rabbi Julia or her two girls.
The guy doing the interview made a big deal about religion and self-agency.
Do you have self-agency at work? Not really. I have to engage in what the company considers to be professional behavior and speech. If I make certain posts on the internet I can be fired. If I engage in certain activities, even if outside of work I can be fired (take smoking pot as an example).
To be a member of any group you have to curb your "self-agency" to one degree or another. It's not just religion that does this.
yeah, this is the guy doing the interview... and I did make a big deal about self-agency. but given your "work" illustration to make your point, you obviously don't understand self-agency and how dogmatic high-control religion is effect it. and I am so sorry that you work at place that robs you of self-agency... but I doubt it does... because it seems like you're not understanding what self-agency is.
@@davidmosesperez Corporate America demands tremendous conformity and the higher up you go the more true that becomes.
One of the more important realizations I have had is that most groups are religious or quasi religious. MAGA, BLM, the Woke crowd, etc. They all function like religions - tell people what to believe (what is good and bad), they have an arch enemy that is responsible for great evil, etc.
So, they are also all control groups. Do you want to be in Corporate America? Then there is a certain way you will have to dress (and certain ways you better not), there are certain ways you better talk (and certain ways you better not), certain books you have to read, etc. BLM is no different. The Republican Party is no different. Etc.
You know damn well and good that if you come out publically in support of Trump you would lose your friends and job…because you are part of a quasi religious high control group.
@@davidmosesperez Corporate America demands tremendous conformity and the higher up you go the more true that becomes.
One of the more important realizations I have had is that most groups are religious or quasi religious. MAGA, BLM, the Woke crowd, etc. They all function like religions - tell people what to believe (what is good and bad), they have an arch enemy that is responsible for great evil, etc.
So, they are also all control groups. Do you want to be in Corporate America? Then there is a certain way you will have to dress (and certain ways you better not), there are certain ways you better talk (and certain ways you better not), certain books you have to read, etc. BLM is no different. The Republican Party is no different. Etc.
You know that if you come out publically in support of Trump you would lose your friends and job…because you are part of a quasi religious high control group.
@@davidmosesperez I found your definition right here (see below). Looks like I git it right.
"super great question. thanks for asking. Self-agency is the ability to make choices and take actions based on personal beliefs and values. However, rigid religious doctrines can undermine self-agency by prescribing strict rules and limiting individual freedom to explore, question, and decide for oneself. When beliefs are imposed without room for personal interpretation, the capacity for self-directed decision-making and authentic living is diminished, reducing one's ability to act independently."
So like I said before, you know that if you come out publically in support of Trump you would lose your friends and job…because you are part of a quasi religious high control group.
@@davidmosesperez csouthland got it right. He said one of the rare things in this world that is universal, that knows no borders. Every kind of human group demands conformity from its members, otherwise, those who do not conform are quickly ostracized.
Actually the evangelicals is the new Catholic Church with a few subtle differences they are literally part of the new one world religion soon to happen
The death of Christ on the cross is a parable about the death of the god of the beyond. ( Zizek)
Excellent discussion. My deconstruction left me in a position where following the god of the bible is immoral, if he exists as the bible presents him. However, I don't believe any deity exists and am happy to leave that behind. Content in living my life trying to make the lives of those in my orbit better.
Just wondering if you still feel a god exists and if that god is involved in your life events.
@@Bloodreign316 is god all knowing, all powerful and all loving? Did he know when he initiated creation that billions would suffer eternal torment?
A resurrection after 2 or 3 days is an incredible claim. A claim that demands good evidence. The bible doesn't cut it. There were contemporary historians at that time and place and yet, none wrote of it. What good evidence do you have for a resurrection?
@@johnelliott5859 well first off, you don’t get to decide that the Bible doesn’t cut it for evidence. Many thousands of historical scholars accept the Bible as being a piece of historical evidence that keeps proving itself true as the time passes by. But you can not ignore the rise of the Christians after the death of Jesus. Why did it rise? Because hundreds or more had witnessed the resurrection and ascension of Jesus and after all the miracles that thousands had witnessed, the hundreds of prophecies that were fulfilled, it was indisputable at the time Jesus was the messiah. You also might wanna check out conditional immortality as what really happens when you don’t accept Christ.
@@Bloodreign316 According to serious scientific research, there have been approximately 117 billion births of our species since Homo sapiens first appeared on Earth, and NOT A SINGLE ONE of them has ever come back to life. If you were to ask the billions of people who have owned cats, dogs, birds, mice, hamsters, bulls, elephants, crocodiles, lions, spiders, etc., if they have ever had a pet that came back to life after it died, there is not one honest person who would say "yes.” Of the approximately 2.5 billion dinosaurs that lived before a meteorite crashed on planet Earth about 65 million years ago, not a single one came back to life, except in Steven Spielberg's Hollywood movies. Would you conclude that a vaccine was unsafe if it was administered to 117 billion people and a scientific study showed that not one of them died or experienced any side effects? Doctors would immediately send you to a mental institution if you concluded that it was unsafe. This is compelling enough evidence that if such a person like Jesus did live 2,000 years ago, the New Testament account of his "resurrection" is merely the skillful fabrication of anonymous and fraudulent authors influenced by the cultural milieu of their time.
Much of the New Testament is, for lack of a better word, actually a "copy" of ancient Egyptian legends and/or Zoroastrian books, such as a prophet/God who could turn water into wine, the resurrection from the dead, the virgin birth, the Son of God dying for the souls of believers, angels and demons, the Last Judgment and life after death, symbolism and imagery, etc. Serious scholars and historians have found at least 180 similarities between the Jesus story in the Bible and those of earlier religions. In other words, the New Testament gospels are imitations based on or inspired by ancient regional myths.
The good news, at least for me, is that recent polls indicate that a majority of the 67 million British (UK now has an atheist as prime minister) and 68 million French share my opinion, as well as about 28% of the American population, and the number of people who reject this childish story is steadily but slowly growing, at least in the Western world.
How is progressive Christianity doing though. Im an episcopal christian and its the place im most s home stas a trans person
I think it's just that... progressing.
4225 Jamie Squares
Away with all gods and religion.
Anderson Susan Davis Melissa Young Steven
Why stay part of a "Christian" movement that has abandoned the teachings of Jesus.
I think it’s funny how people say I left religion but follow Jesus. As if you can actually rationally do that. The only book that teaches of Jesus is the Bible. The gospels were not first or second hand accounts. The simple fact is that we do not know what Jesus actually said if he existed at all. Also if we are to accept that the Bible factually portrays what Jesus said, which we don’t have to because the evidence isn’t there, Jesus said some immoral things as well. Also Jesus was a Jew. He would have followed the Mosaic law.
Christianity caused me to develop a panic anxiety disorder at the ripe old age of 12. I was diagnosed with religious trauma syndrome. Christianity is toxic. I disagree with the host and journalists. Religion hijacks secular principles and values and perverts them with guilt, fear, self loathing, doubt, and delusions.
There is no detail as to why this woman had a faith transition. Im finding boring!
how unfortunate for you James. sorry to hear your heart is in need of tenderness.
Why are you playing piano music? It sounds like you’re going to give a eulogy. As if we are going to burry some one. If you want to sound professional stop the church music.
I'm a huge fan of the deconstruction movement (mostly just because we don't have evidence of any gods, so it appears to be a bad idea people are misled by), but I have to say this interview was a little painful to get through. Both the questions and answers were pretty meandering and surface level.
ok... thanks for the feedback. I've never heard my questions described as "surface level," but ok, I'll ponder that. so help me out. you seemed to have a specific thought that I can learn from: give me an example of 2 deep sagacious esoteric questions you wish Sarah and I discussed.
@@davidmosesperez 1. I'd have started with an open ended question where you let her describe the process of deconstruction, including what the goals are (which ideally should always be "truth").
2. The second question would be to learn what that looks like specifically for an evangelical.
3. Another question might be to have them detail specific ways evangelicals manipulate people in ways that shut down this sort of serious investigation. Most who've left religion (certainly one who's written a book on it) can point to quite a few examples; things like emotional manipulation, social consequences, and information control. There are even some problems that aren't even unique to religion, like how easy it is in modern society to find yourself in echo chambers of like-minded people where dissenting opinions are simply never heard.
@@majm4606 - thanks. I appreciate the suggestions and the time you took to write them. much appreciated.
@@Bloodreign316 What evidence do you have of Jesus doing miracles? A scholar's opinion isn't evidence, you need actual writings at a minimum. To me it's clear that when we're talking about an all-knowing god, for that god to deliberately choose to do all-human-fakeable "miracles" (like faith-healing and misdirection; things humans regularly trick each other with), then the idea at face value is already super hard to believe. So then the fact that we don't have any evidence outside the Bible (except one text that's worded super vague like 'and Jesus is said to have done surprising things') makes the most likely explanation that this was just another example of humans tricking humans.
As for prophecy, why would that indicate a god? These people *had the prophecies.* And so either (A) actually filling them and/or (B) writing that they were filled, is quite easy. I did it myself a while back when I wrote that the chosen one would eat Indian Food for lunch tomorrow, and then I ate Indian for lunch the next day.
I don't really understand your Beethoven analogy, because you aren't here *slamming down strong evidence of a god,* right? So you're "playing the song" as badly as everyone else, because you aren't showing this book's claims are true.
@@Bloodreign316 What evidence of a supernatural claim did you find? Specifically supernatural claims, because verifying Harry Potter by confirming London is a real city would be pretty dishonest, agreed?
Why are you rejecting Jesus and the truth
I have to disagree Paul. Leaving American Evangelicalism and Conservative Protestantism - something that is 150 years old - is not leaving Christ or Christianity. You don't sound much different than the religious leaders of 33ce or the Church leaders in 1517. I hope you'll open up to those who hold up faith, hope, and love, as much as you do, but view it only thru the lens of the 500 year old reformers.
Hey, look, an NPR person who enmeshed their own narrative into the story they're covering and came to the conclusion that left-wing politics is the one true belief. How original....
did you read the book? it actually reflects kindness, compassion, love, something I think we all want any religious perspective to hold.
@@davidmosesperez I did. It appropriates Blake Chastain's book title to boot, which is explicitly farcical. 'Deconstructing' faith is just insufferable white liberal's form of liberation theology. You can just look at Johnathan Haidt's stats on mental health overlaid on political affiliation. If exvangelicalism was especially healthy, it'd be in the stats. It's not. Wisdom is proven to be right by what results from it....
there is your mistake: taking the bible and reducing it to American politics. Many people are seeing christianity for what it really is, a warring hateful political group much like the middle eastern version of Islam. You lost your testimony, your chance to lead and attract by example rather than law. Many people will go lost because of you. You will have much to answer for.
As someone who read the book, let me ask you, where in the book does she come to the conclusion that left-wing politics is the "one true belief"? Where in the podcast does she come to that conclusion? Or are you just filling in the blanks of what you think this book is about based upon your own personal biases.
Talk about your own narrative!!!