A Word About Me and Joe Rigney Prompting a Jim Hamilton Bible Study | Jared Longshore
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- Опубликовано: 23 окт 2023
- So me, Joe Rigney, Jim Hamilton, and Doug Wilson walk into a bar . . . at Southern Seminary. It’s called “The Mohler” . . . (I know, I know, you can’t believe it. Work with me. We’re postmil).
Jared Longshore's Reformation and Revival videos are presented by Canon Press.
Thank you, Jared!
I greatly appreciate the segment titled "Do Work Through It." As a current on-campus student at SBTS, I can affirm that most of the folks who hold the "avoid the Moscow cult" sentiment have not 'worked through it.' Instead, they have chugged the Kool-aid crafted by southern baptist professors, TGC speakers, 9Marks bloggers, and the like, without even asking what flavor it is.
It is becoming more and more difficult to continue being charitable to our southern baptist brothers who are not charitable in return. Godspeed, my friend.
Oh, please. Accusing people who don't agree with the CN blather coming from Moscow as drinking the Kool-Aid is on the whole pretty darn uncharitable.
Must be uncharitable but loving to point out the uncharitableness, no?
@7wmarsh7, thanks for sharing. I was also on the "avoid the Moscow cult" train for no good reason. Then one day R.C. Sproul died and I found myself looking to replace the vacuum he left. I gave Doug a chance and have been hooked ever since. I am still wondering why I avoided someone I knew nothing about. I am not surprised about Jim Hamilton, his antagonistic and smug demeanor in this debate vs Doug's demeanor should tell you everything you need to know: ruclips.net/video/4S0TQ2dXnms/видео.htmlsi=juBovZXIgL10d9K-
As a Pre Trib / Pre Mil Baptist, let me be the first to say many of us view Longshore, Wilson, et al as "On Team" from our direction.
March on Christian Soldiers, you're all a great blessing, thank you for for being used of God for those blessings.
Do you believe the children of believers baptized via sprinkling are as baptized as those immersed upon profession of faith?
@@josiahkeendo you believe heaven is reached according to the specific means that someone got wet? Disagreements regarding the meaning of baptism and the nature of the covenant fall within the same group who says that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ alone.
@@josiahkeen What if you've had both? Are you more "saved"? I guess I'm better than all of you 😇
Belgic, Article 34: "Therefore we detest the error of the Anabaptists, who are not content with the one only baptism they have once received, and moreover condemn the baptism of the infants of believers, whom we believe ought to be baptized and sealed with the sign of the covenant, as the children in Israel formerly were circumcised upon the same promises which are made unto our children."@@JYD2756
I believe that Christ died on the cross for my sins and that of the world and to believe in Him for my salvation through no works of my own is the only path to Him and heaven. I suspect Wilson and Longshore would agree, "on team"
I also believe that anyone else claiming the same is "on team".
I'm NOT saying one shouldn't take stands on their doctrine but in a country where praising Hamas that beheads infants as a members of congress leaves you in office, infant or believer baptism might not be the best definition for "on team".
Thanks for an excellent commentary on this subject!
8:09 He burns everything, and thank God 🔥
The title alone made me "lol". Nice work.
Good comments. Very timely.
Greetings brother Jared from NFMPC🙏🏻
Here's to the freedom of, "We don't think so Scooter!" 😊👍
As brothers, fight ye! ❤🎉
Anyone have a link to the Bible study?
❤
I was post mil before I knew anything about Douglas wilson
I was first drawn to the jovial masculinity of the Postmil crew before adopting the teaching. No embarrassing verses. No apologies for what Scripture says. No reliance on winsomeness.
I'm curious what "embarrassing verses" are you referring to.
@@RecalledtoLife Adam and Eve account, Noah's ark story, "wives obey your husbands" etc. Basically anything modern culture has told us is backwards or fairy tales, and many "Christians" have been conditioned to feel the same embarrassment about them.
Amen. Me too!
WINSOME DIALOGUE ❤
Can I not be a Southern Baptist Theological Seminary fan and also not be a Doug Wilson fan? Can I want always and only Scriptural arguments and not rely on the Reformers only for my theology and practice? I love the Reformers. They didn't always get everything right.
I’m definitely a 1689 baptist but sure do live my fellow Presbyterians, but post mil too, the SBC is falling apart, they should of put voddie in charge
It sounds a lot like how you are not sitting down with Gary DeMar to talk it out.
When will Doug Wilson debate Gary Demar or any other notable preterist? Doug won't debate when he knows he's going to get whipped.
I am interested in knowing the arguments for including contradictory confessions as admissible for separate CREC churches. I am tempted to be cynical and assume that this is about big tent coalition building rather than affirming foundations. I am referring to the issue of baptism.
I think it's admirable for baptists to include Presbyterians in the crec
I think it's the reverse as Wilson's camp are Presby/paedobaptists. I'm an outsider surely there is a record/account of the reasoning.
From what I understand, the doctrinal foundation of the CREC is the Reformed tradition, and they admit churches that adhere to any of the reformed statements of faith, or an adaptation of any of these documents. That includes the Westminster standards, LBCF 1689, 39 Articles, Three Forms of Unity etc. Also, you must hold to the Apostle’s Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Definition of Chalcedon.
Based on some limited research of the CREC church order, issues where the confessions disagree is intentionally not a topic of discussion beyond the individual church so they are de facto congregationalist on the matter of baptism.
Link to Hamilton's audio?
Where can I find more on RC Sproul being a preterist? I find that a little disturbing.
Sproul wrote a book on it. If you are interested in learning more about preterism from a Reformed theological perspective, "The Last Days According to Jesus" is a book by R.C. Sproul provides valuable insights.
I sont understand why Jim wnd others like Rod Dreher are so against actually sitting down, discussing these issues, ans workinf through them logically. Its abject cowardice on their part.
Bro, do you really believe that sitting down to parley with Doug Wilson and the Boys would result in anything other than Doug framing the narrative to suit his purposes.
Amen!!! Amen!!
More people would be Historic Pre-Mill if Jim Hamilton would have been a little warmer in the Evening of Eschatology with Piper.
Aaaaaamen, aaaaaamen, aaamen aamen aamen aamen aamen
That's messed up.
True! I was new to the study of eschatology when Piper hosted that night and Hamilton's tone was such a put off. Later, I did my MDiv at SBTS and purposely never took his classes because of it.
Oh, that’s the name of the guy that I had never heard of!🤓
Sad that Christians would allow a personality to keep them from the truth of God's Word one way or another.
Ok, but why does he say, "Loo ih ville"?
France
Because that's the way they pronounce it 🤦🏻
8:31 The old "come to Moscow" and we'll talk it over gambit. You guys are funny.
Eat the meat and spit out the bones. 😂🎉❤
@@DeaconBean A whole lot of bones.
The only thing that matters is what Jesus says on your judgement day. Based on the fruits of the pre-mill and post-mill theology lived out, which is most likely to receive a "well done good and faithful servant"? Which is more likely to succeed in the great commission mission?
Preterists
I'm yet convinced that postmillenialism does not fit with the biblical view of escathology and I actually believe that unless it all changes in a century, Moscow Idaho is the perfect proof of that (despite what many people believe, it is quite a non-Christian place), but I definitely believe that my posmil brothers are on my team and am specially grateful for bold men like Doug Wilson.
Glad to see people admit Postmil/Theonomy is a cope in response to how bad things are perceived to be around us.
It's biblical. see: James R. White's speaking on the subject. He brings receipts.
@@MechaFenrisHis is the very definition of becoming postmill for coping reasons. He outright admits this over and over on the DL.
@@theocratickingdom30except he doesn’t. Whenever he talks about why he became post mill he says he was listening to Jeff Durbin and one day it finally clicked and he went ‘oh wait, I get it. It’s all over the place in here.’
What's more of a cope. Diligently implementing the great commission and teaching your children's children to do the same, or standing around with your thumb out for the Rapture Train while cheering for the evil to get worse so the Tribulation Boogaloo can kick off on the timeline you date set?
Perhaps for some, but not for me. I became convinced of the postmil view because of the Bible.
I don't necessarily affirm a Post-millennial view. That being said, I also cannot affirm any dispensational view nor a pre-tribulational view. Given all that I must say that these somewhat casual or offhanded rebuffings of Moscow's magnanimity possess a certain "o-dare," which has that particular funk the more pugnacious among us might classify as cowardousness. To even the casual observer, these "reasons" for not accepting the entirely gracious invitations of DW and friends have become embarrassing, to say the least. And continue to be more with every additional lame excuse.
Oh, dear. A casual observer has taken umbrage because someone might have the temerity to decline the royal command to come to Moscow. Dude, don't you know it's all just grist for the Moscow mill. They would probably even manage to get a children's book out of it.
I think the trepidation many have with Christ Church is that there seems to be almost a cultish nature to SOME of the guys following Doug. The line seems to be drawn more by them then by those outside. Just my observations. Those I’ve met personally seem to be argumentative and pushy. Not a good look.
Seen that before elsewhere, it seems to happen no matter what the pastor does to avoid it. Its a cage calvinist type phase but not everyone geows out of it. Not many mighty are called.
There’s an element of that I think that comes from the understanding of being on the countercultural side, the side that says the hard truths, and the side that is pushing harder than everyone else while their backs are up against the wall. Should they be pushy? No. But not all have the wisdom to see when they’re running into someone who, by their standards, has simply been misled by the culture and secularism versus those who are actively *on* team secularism.
@@ReformedSooner24hmmm....I see many great pastors pushing against secularism. When I say pushy, I mean trying to talk end time views at a party and everything is heated. It's a bit much. Especially end time views and prophesy bc/the real truth is we don't know exactly who is getting it right. We can study and listen but in the end, we may be wrong. Salvation in Christ alone through faith alone seems much more important a stand than eschatology.
Preterist like Don Preston and Michael Sullivan.
@@conservativemama3437 right. But the flip side of that doesn’t mean those other things are trivial. Especially when they have such a direct and profound effect on action and lifestyle, as well as worldview which also has an impact on lifestyle. dispensationalism, wether it’s “real Dispensationalism” or simply real dispensationalism advanced to its logical outcomes, has been a disaster for the church in the West in virtually every important spiritual battlefield. In sex, in culture, in the household, in a right understanding of basically anything and everything physical and whatever it has not directly hurt it has weakened the walls and opened the gates to further harm.
Anyone with an eschatology will be influenced by it. The communists, especially the early 20th century ones, had a very strong eschatology of global communism. Marx and his successors didn’t simply talk about it as a “must happen” or “needs to happen” but also as a “will happen”. This belief and view of the future alone caused the majority of the revolutions and cultural pushes of marxism. Notice that capitalism itself never did such a thing. Capitalism has no eschatology, save that everything not it will crumble after various amounts of failure, misery and death.
This of course is why we rank issues by import. The core message of the gospel is primary. The Trinity is primary. Primary is those doctrines and facts that separate outright heresy from true religion. Secondary issues can be disagreed over but are massively important nonetheless. Eschatology is one of these I believe. Eventually you get to much lower issues of import such as actual wine vs grape juice at communion.
Is it possible that our eschatology is wrong? Sure. But that’s why it’s impossible to root it in the scripture and to judge it by scripture, including all relevant context and understanding the original languages. If you put in the effort and accept the conclusions that then stick out to you then you are far less likely to be wrong. We CAN have some assurance of accuracy and correctness on issues of theology and in fact that’s kind of what the Reformed faith, of all the Christian traditions, really values most as compared to how much other traditions value it. Right thinking. The Reformed approach to the scriptures leans to the opposite end of the thought-feeling spectrum of pentacostalism.
Plenty of postmills are not on the media platform of Canon Press. You're even doing your videos in this same kind of way Douglas Wilson does. It's like a strange clone. It's bigger than theological issues but gets into practical.
We are baptist and we love you all and have got alot of heat for it. But we agree on everything except baptism. Judge by fruits and you all are fruitful!
Do defect.😊
They're only TULIP Baptists, pretty as the flower they try to be, but truly Reformed doctrine, is to them but a heresy. End of poem.
Yes lol. Historic Calvinism is different than new Calvinism. Unless ur referring to reformed as presby’s
Not a heresy, just sub-biblical
@@tjkhan4541 It's a joke, poem, and you're seriously going to say that reformed theology is sub biblical?
@@JR-rs5qs yeah by sub-biblical I mean paedobaptism and bringing infants into the new covenant community. That’s not what the Bible teaches about the new covenant community, when you take into account all the Bible has to say about it. So sub-biblical, because it is selectively biblical. But not a heresy.
@tjkhan4541 hate to break it to you but you're wrong. I was a baptist for 20 years, by the way, and I didn't grow up in the church. Not only infants of believers are part of the visible New Covenant people, but even adult members of the household who submitted to the head, professed Christ and were baptized, were part of the visible New Covenant. Ultimately only people who are truly born again (baptized internally) are part of the New Covenant, but we must administer the New Covenant on this side of Heaven without full knowledge of internal things. Baptists try to be so certain of other people's salvation that they restrict external baptism for all household members. They do a poor job of raising children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord and they lose a high percentage to the world. Baptists make the New Covenant to be a worse Covenant than the old. Baptists are also effectively egalitarian because you don't recognize headship responsibility and authority. Furthermore, as a baptist, you're much further outside Reformed thought than you think and I'd highly caution you so brazenly saying Reformed people don't understand baptism in relation to the New Covenant. You don't know how ignorant you are and I can say that to you because I previously didn't know how ignorant I was.
I despise Rigney’s association with John Piper.
John Piper, great man of God!