Very good explaination. I didn't even realize torque converters were sealed, just assumed I hadn't spent enough time with one to figure out how they popped apart. I guess that's kinda true too.
Well, I am one of those who had a basic idea of how the fluid coupling worked from fluid dynamics in college. But I have always wondered how it worked IN DETAIL. Now I know. I sent the link to this video to all of my adult kids. Everyone who drives a car with an automatic transmission should watch this so they can "have a clue" about how it works. Great job!
You may not be a perfect expert in all aspect of the inner workings of a vehicle, but you certainly know more than me and many of us out there. You are OUR EXPERT we turn to! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise by making and sharing this video.
Great video, really appreciate these videos me and my brother just changed the CVT fluid and diff fluids on the 2011 outback he just bought. car has 144k miles hopefully it will be a good car for him he really likes it, thank you!!
Thanks alot for this man. We're dealing with this issue on my wifes 2011 legacy. I'm debating on pulling the engine myself and you're videos are a great source of knowledge.
I just did one on an 11 outback. In my case, the engine needed timing belt and components plus water pump (247K miles, the belt was cracked all over every cog) and it needed valve cover gaskets, so just getting it ready for that work had it just about all ready for an engine pull, which was actually pretty easy. Since the transmission is what is holding the engine in with the motor mounts no longer holding the engine to the front cross member, those mounts are now at the front of the transmission. Makes it a super easy job to just pull the engine. Pulling the transmission requires probably more work, and you still need to get to all the bell housing bolts whether you pull the engine or the trans. The 250 lb transmission requires a very rugged and adaptable transmission jack, as well as pulling the drive half shafts from the front and the rear drive shaft, which requires separating ball joints and tie rods, plus the removal of the axle shaft outer nuts. So I pulled my engine and didn't even have to remove it from the crane to service the valve covers and timing components. Slide out the old TC and put the new and improved one in its place. First things first, you may want to drain the transmission first, although the torque converter will stay loaded with a few quarts of fluid. Have a good catch pan below your missing engine and drain that TC out because it will begin to drain itself as soon as it is off the transmission. One other thing that goes hand in hand with the TC lockup clutch release failure is the TCC duty solenoid, a pulsed solenoid that varies the lockup pressure for smooth engagement. Subaru sells only the entire assembly, but you can find the solenoid on the amazon marketplace. Mine was reporting a code indicating solenoid failure, and I got the one solenoid on Amazon for $165, instead of approaching $1K from subaru for the complete assembly. So the other part of the job is getting 12 Qts of CVT fluid, as well as possibly replacing a solenoid in the valve body. When you drop the pan, it is bonded to the transmission with a gasket making sealant, and with the bolts all removed, it will not budge. Look that process up, MrSubaru here has an excellent video on that process. You will have more fluid drop out from the pan when you get it separated, and the valve body, should you remove it. I used a commercial baking sheet pan on top of my rolling oil drain catch system which allowed no spills outside of the pan. Tip: if you want to save a lot of time, do not remove your intake manifold, which may appear to be called for in alldata manuals, for example. You do need to access the flex (drive) plate bolts between the engine and torque converter, but all you need to do is remove the throttle body to get to those bolts easily.
Thanks so much for the best explanation of a torque converter I have ever seen! I did not know how the lock up function worked until now.Thank you great video.
Excellent video! My daughter's 15 mirage cvt w 76k miles blew out the torque converter! Factory repair more than car is worth!! Hoping to gamble w used tq. Oil and filter to get running and sell for less than total loss. Engine stalls at traffic light. Sounds just like your closing comments needing a needle bearing vs thrust washer! This video helped me understand the clutch built within the Tq. THANK YOU!
Again....great video!! Amazing how much the TC is such the main player in getting your car down the road. most people having transmission problems will over look this simple but complex item.
Had a 2012 Outback that sometimes felt like it was going to stall when coming to a stop but never did. Was not aware of the SB on this. Don't have it any longer. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks. I never really understood how the torque converter works...had a vague idea, but it's nice to actually see it visually. You explained it very well. Thanks!
Amazing video with great explanation of the engineering inside a torque converter. May I recommend putting in your title something like “How a torque converter works”? I wonder if that may help get even more views. Regardless, excellent video as always!
The level of detail was awesome. I'll be looking into how the automatic transmission works, just for a better understanding. I will say, this does make me so much happier that all of my cars have been manual for the past 20 years. I don't have to deal with these issues, as long as I'm not driving/shifting like an idiot. :)
That's was very interesting thank you. I know what a torque converter does but all ways wondered how exactly a torque converter works. I definitely learned a lot from that video. Very cool 😎.
The wear point is the black phenolic washer eats into the mating surface of the turbine hub. As it wears, the lock up piston drags the front cover and stalls the engine.
I live in Italy and in 2004 I purchased a Toyota Avensis (basically an elongated Toyota Corolla made for Europe) 1.8 VVT-i (1ZZ-FE) equipped with a 4 speed U341E automatic transmission made by Aisin in Japan. Despite full service history, performed exclusively by the local Toyota dealer, I never asked to the dealer to change the ATF and the ATF filter, also because Toyota explicitly wrote in the user manual that it is not necessary under nornal driving conditions. I live in a montainous region and, despite driving almost always very calmly, after 12.5 years and about 72,000 miles, the torque converter seal started to leak ATF on the floor. The dealer replaced the torque converter and its seal. Afterward, the automatic transmission of my car performed perfectly, as always, but with one defect: the torque converter lock-up clutch didn't engage anymore, and the error code P0741 appeared on the scanner display. Check engine light on, VDC off, TCS off. Long story short: I ended up with a new automatic transmission, remanufactured by Toyota, installed by the local Toyota dealer. My question is: what could have been the root cause of the torque converter seal starting to leak ATF on the floor? Total lack of maintenance? Age? Mountaineous roads that keep the ATF hotter than usual? Clogged ATF filter due to the torque converter clutch lining being reduced to dust due to engaging/disengaging cycles driving up the mountains? My best answer is the latest I wrote, also because the torque converter lock-up clutch is not a multi-plate clutch; instead, it is a single layer ring-shaped clutch, not the strongest type, I guess.
very nice explanation, suggest a follow-on that explains how the TC 'fits' into the next higher assy, and how subaru isolates the cvt fluid chambers from the diffs
Excellent video... Great coverage of the torque converter theory / how it works. The failure mentioned in the bulletin makes more sense now. How do you determine; whether it's the converter and not the lock up solenoid or control circuit that's failed? Is there a testing process?
There is. The gray connector on top of the transmission can be accessed via the engine compartment. if you check resistance between pin 2 (Top row and second front to back) and ground at the transs, you should get between 10-13.5 ohms of resistance. If out of spec, your solenoid is no good. Above 13.5ohms the computer will put out code P2673, TCC solenoid high and below 10 ohms the code will be P2674, TCC solenoid low. I got p2674 and when I checked it was at 9.7 ohms so the computer is very sensitive to this resistance and will (normally) set a code as soon as it is out of spec. We've had the torque converter issue for a few years and knew what it was but the code only came on recently when the solenoid went.
I have a cheap and dirty center differential fix when front wheels bind with the rear but it's not 100% the front and back still bind a bit when I do an extreme turn like a U turn and it feels worse at slowest speed makes car shudder a bit.previous owner ran the AWD with worn out dissimilar tread size tires but car has almost 270K miles! and runs great outside this problem and a small engine oil leak
This is more of an explanation than I’ve gotten anywhere else. Do you maybe have a differential in the chuck it bucket? Any of the parts that play a role in the AWD system between transmission to the wheels would be great if you do any more of these in the future. If you have already done videos of these parts let me know and I’ll check them out. Thanks
Great video! This explains a lot of the issues I'm seeing in my 150 mile old reman transmission. Also, I suspect the reman facility Subaru uses doesn't give every reman unit a new torque converter. The lockup clutch in mine doesn't appear to be working correctly. I guess it's back to the dealer I go. Good thing I have 58k miles/6 years left on the CVT warranty.
I am well past the extended warranty on mine at 110kmiles but mine has been a little fishy for 50k miles. It has never outright stalled coming to a stop but I have seen the RPM's drop to almost nothing then it seems to recover. It does seem to happen in winter more than summer but it happens very sporadically, could never reproduce at the dealer. Not sure how long I got till it finally gives up and fails. 2011 Outback.
Welp I love the wrx but I bought cvt it not bad. I'm scared that the cvt won't last too long so I trading it for isf 350. It was fun trying Subaru cars.
Good info in that video. Somehow I never got the recall for this issue, if there ever was one. I have a 2010 legacy with 154000 miles and it is now stalling when I brake to stop. I checked stopping in neutral yesterday and when in neutral it doesn't stall. So, do I need a new torque converter?
I just bought a 2014 outback with a CVT trans 64000 miles, when going from park to drive there's a 2 to 3 second before the trans engages is this normal, thanks a million.
I didn't realize the ring gear/flex plate is intrinsic to the torque converter. Presumably if a bad starter damages the ring gear, you need to replace the torque converter?
Love your videos! So I have a shudder at ~20mph when accelerating. I am torn between EGR issues or torque converter issues. I noticed that the shudder happens when the torque converter engagement changes from 50% to 100% (at about 20mph). With your video, it sounds like the main failure is when coming to a stop, not accelerating like my case. Do you think this points more towards EGR issues?
My 2011 2.5i outback at times has that sudden drop in rpm at a stop. Same goes when going in reverse. It has not stalled yet but it kinds feels like it will. Im at almost 130k miles. Not sure if I want to keep it...
Very interesting. My wife's 2016 Forester XT has had similar behavior in the past, although I can't think of a time it's happened recently. When it did, it always happened on the first stop when everything was still cold. Are diferent torque converters used for turbo models?
Thank you for going over this. I'm currently having an issue with my 2011 outback 3.6r and am wondering if this assembly (or something related) could be the culprit. I understand it can cause a momentary loss of power at a stop, thus causing a stall, but could it also cause it to loose power occasionally on hills or when decelerating behind a car and just before re-acceleration, feel a loss of power again? I can counter the loss most of the time by giving extra gas to ensure that not too much power is lost, but I've been struggling with this issue for a while now. Changed my spark plugs (not coil packs yet), had to change a nock sensor, and some wiring lost to rodents, but the issue persists. I know she's due for the 120k service (she's at 125k), but I'm also afraid of shelling out for that in case this issue is bigger and needs addressing sooner. I want the servicing, but with this one being a big one I'm afraid I won't have the $ to fix whatever is found. I will continue researching, but if you have input on what to look into further, it what you would do, I'm all ears. I'm trying to keep this thing running so I can pass it to my daughter at 17 (march 2025), but I still need to use it till then. Plus I know it needs about $2k in other maintenance, so I'm struggling to figure out if I'm dumping too much into it. At this point I'm wondering if doing the engine and getting a new one would be cheaper. 😅
Yep, my 2011 Outback with 103k on the clock would stall whenever I made a quick stop. Was over the 100k warranty, but Subaru split the cost with me. Still not happy as I have two 240 Volvos and both have over 400k on the engines and have only had water pumps and timing belts, and one has the Asian Warner auto which has also never been touched. So all this transmission issues at 100k and potential head gasket issues on the horizon does not make me happy. But I like the little car, and would rather have it than anything else on the market.
My 2011 Outback started stalling a couple days ago but only at the first couple full stops. It would not happen for the rest of the 150+ miles drive each time. Both times car was warm but trans prob wasnt yet. Bought the car from my parents at 125k miles and it always felt like it didn’t really enjoy the city stop and go very much. Felt a little bouncy or fighting itself from stopping at times. Figured maybe it was just the way the CVT was supposed to be. When i first got the car i brought in to dealership do a trans oil change but they advised against it. Now 141k miles with a possibly faulty torque converter I’d have to change much of the fluid anyways if i were to change the torque converter, Possibly doing harm to the trans? Ive had luck with an 08 Legacy Subaru trans shifting weird or holding gears just a little longer than normal fixing it with just a trans service. Ok my question finally. Do you think a “simple” trans service could fix the issue? u mentioned in the TR690, faulty bushing bearing ports doesn’t allow the fluid to bleed and take off pressure from the clutch plate to disengage it from the “flywheel”. My local dealership is charging $825 for labor and $1050 for the torque converter and fluids. Do i have them just change the old fluid that might be sludging when cold? Or go and change out the torque converter? I found the torque converter around 550$ online and at another dealership. Idk how much fluid is.
En Japón, Subaru recomienda cada 30,000 millas, en comparación de Estados Unidos que dice que el aceite es de por vida. Yo lo cambie como parte del mantenimiento y corre mucho mejor.
I'm always fascinated by how things work. Thanks for your description.I've got a 2006 Outback with a TZ1B7LFCBA transmission that's shuddering under load mainly between 40 kph and 60 kph and there is a "grundgy" feel and vibration when at idle. I've heard that the shuddering is a known issue with Subaru torque converters. Can you explain why that develops?
I had the same issues with a 2011 legacy 2.5i I replaced it with a refurbished of of EvilBay And still has same symptoms, when I installed it I only put around a quarter of transmission fluid in it, after I watched your other video I realized you filled it with more than that, so you think that caused my refurbished to fail again and would’ve happened even if I had one from Subaru, or it’s just that refurbished is not a reliable part
Good video. I had mine replaced under the extended warranty along with the torque converter. Well I'm 500 miles over the extended warranty and Subaru of America only offered a 350$ parts and service certificate. It sucks cause they changed the valve body barely 12k miles ago. It seems these cvt transmissions are doomed even with replacement. Same code as before. P2763 and p2762. Any thoughts? Maybe the wiring harness? That was the only thing that hasn't been done according to the tsb.
Does that stater move around inside the housing? I am noticing mine freely spins but also has play all around left right top bottom as if u were looking at it straight down.
Awesome explanation, I have always wondered how torque converters functioned. Would this cause all the lights on the dash to be flashing? Chasing an issue with a 2011 Legacy 2.5l w/TR690. Subscribed!
Hey mr Subaru I was wondering if you knew why my Subaru won’t shift in manual mode it just won’t work at all 2011 outback with tr690 but continues to work in automatic I had over filled the fluid a little bit because I forgot it has to be running I don’t know if I let too much fluid out or I also noticed my cruse won’t stay working and I noticed some vibrations could I have a bad cv axel thanks if you get time😮
I have a 2010 Legacy with. now 146K miles. I bought the car after it came off loaner status at about 6K miles and have had this problem coming to a stop and ALMOST stalling for maybe a 100,000 miles, meaning before 50K. It doesn’t always happen, probably one in twenty five or fifty times. I never knew that this problem was identified in TSB until the vehicle was over 100K miles, meaning I can’t get it fixed for free. I may keep the car another year or so and have never changed the CVT fluid. I know the debate on the definition of ‘lifetime’. Should I invest in the repair myself to save on trade-in value, or should I just discount the price to compensate. Other than replacing the alternator and this torque converter, it’s been mostly trouble free. Advice and opinions are welcome.
The fluid isn't lifetime. No debate over that. SOA pulls that garbage line. Subaru Japan still services the CVT like an old 4EAT/5EAT with regular fluid replacements.
I had the solenoid valve body lock-up issue about a year ago and cleared it myself by checking the wiring. Now I have the stalling and TC issue a year later. My transmission shop wants to replace the entire transmission with a used one at about $4.2k or a new one at $9k. Could really use an opinion from Mr. Subaru if I can get away with just the Torque Converter and new CVT fluid?
Can you discuss the 5EAT torque converter lockup shudder issue? I’ve seen a tsb on this and believe my 2012 3.6R is doing it. It shudders at mild accel, 5th gear only, 50 -60 mph. Feels like rumble strip or mild old school clutch chatter. Can initiate at will. Is it a similar clutch system? Is this harmful to the transmission? What exactly is happening?
Is there any way to make it lock up earlier. I go offroad and steep hills kill my 21 forester it will just stop half way up no tire spin .it just make a whining noise
Thank you. Disappointed that a smaller part gone bad screws the whole unit. Why can they not increase the strength of certain components to handle the pressure/wear on those components in the first place? Instead of waiting for stupid data to come in , certain wear points should be over engineered for want of better term to save throwing a whole unit like the cvt converter out. Feels just like crappy Jeep 3.7l engines and their valves...
I have an '05 Legacy wagon 2.5i that stalls, when coming to a stop, just like you described. New fluid, OE filter, and strainer. It happens when in 4th gear and the converter is locked...mainly when cold. If I manually shift down to 3rd she's fine and the converter unlocks. The car has 289k miles. Torque converter or valve body related? Thanks!
Really good explanation, but i want to know if has major difference between year or model between years for the TR690. It is the same thing for a Outback 2011 than a FXT 2014 and the new 2020 Ascent and Outback has the same transmission #? I have a strange issue in my Forester XT 2014 specially when climb hill when need more torque we feel hesitation and slipage, this is comming from torque converter or pulley or Chain in the CVT? Thanks in advance and continue your great works...
I have a 2010 subaru legacy 2.5i it seems like my tort converter is not releasing when i come to a stop i can feel a holding or jurking motion and when excelerating there is a vibration in the drive train, i cant tell if it coming from the tort converter or the drive shaft, where do think i should go to have it checked out?
Does this apply to 2013 MY? Seems like the bulletins only talk about 10-12. I have a 13 outback that stalls out just driving forward and stopping in the driveway. Chugs when coming to a stop, most of the time will stall. Don't even have to get it up to lockup speed. Still torque converter? Thanks!
Hey MySubaru, I have been having such an issue with my AT 06 Forester and was hoping you might be able to assist. My AWD does not work and I’ve been told it could be in my transmission (assuming it would be the torque converter?). I noticed it early winter season when I couldn’t climb the smallest of hills with snow on it and couldn’t even drive through more than a few inches without issues. What’s your thoughts?
I have a 2018 forester with a manual transmission. Any recommendations to improve the torque? I bought larger tires and the torque has dropped more than expected.
Hi , @MrSubaru1387 , i have an Outback Diesel, 2015, CVT, and 2 days ago , first start in the morning, engine and CVT cold have a strange symptom : when trafic is crowded and need to stop , RPM drop for 1s under 400RPM , if i release the break , go back to normal. Happened twice in 2 different days , but the symptom is not present with normal temperarure to motor or CVT. Can this be a torque converter problem from your experience? Thanks in advance!
I'm not very familiar with the EE20 diesel engine, as we never got them here in the states. May just been an issue with engine idle, not connected to an issue with the transmission. If it were a gas engine, I'd advise a throttle body cleaning and idle relearn procedure to start.
@@MrSubaru1387 Thank you for your reply , i was thinking you are not familiar with diesel. I don't have any error code and the problem appear only when the engine/transmision is cold . I was testing 1:30h after ,with my radio turn off to listen for strange sounds ...the problem doesn't appear again..i don't have the feeling that transmission sleeps or idle too much between D and R . If it is a transmission problem what i could think is a low lvl oil and when the temperature raise, oil expand and everything goes well. I will check to my Subaru dealer the problem . My Outback is 2015 / 163k km ...so the transmison could be out of warranty by 2k km . The oil was change 2 times , at 69k and 143k .. At the end want to congrats you for all the infos we got and your hard work on this channel. Regards,
@@MrSubaru1387 Thanks. just had a quick look there and it looks like its just for manuals? I"m referring to what you use to clear codes and reset/reprogram ecm's etc. (Subaru Select Monitor) Cheers
@@thebagdersarse5824 oops. Sorry. Misread. You can't search Free SSM. That's SSM type program, limited functions, but free. SSM III ans SSM4 are several thousand dollars to lease. The interface module is also a couple thousand.
Would you be willing to connect with me regarding a CVT issue I'm having. Have talked to a few different dealers and am getting different diagnosis from each. After watching several of your videos and doing my own research, I feel like I would like another opinion from someone who isn't just trying to take my money without actually getting to bottom of the route cause. How can get in touch with you?
Best explanation of how a torque converter works I've seen so far
Very good explaination. I didn't even realize torque converters were sealed, just assumed I hadn't spent enough time with one to figure out how they popped apart. I guess that's kinda true too.
First time I’ve seen the inner workings and explanation of a torque converter thank you very much
Thanks for teaching me how a torque converter works, especially with the real thing to demonstrate. Super helpful!
You are such a great technician and a teacher
Well, I am one of those who had a basic idea of how the fluid coupling worked from fluid dynamics in college. But I have always wondered how it worked IN DETAIL.
Now I know.
I sent the link to this video to all of my adult kids.
Everyone who drives a car with an automatic transmission should watch this so they can "have a clue" about how it works.
Great job!
You may not be a perfect expert in all aspect of the inner workings of a vehicle, but you certainly know more than me and many of us out there. You are OUR EXPERT we turn to! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise by making and sharing this video.
Thank you, 27 years driving manuals, my used 16 OB is my first automatic and i had no idea how they used liquid to transfer power
Great video, really appreciate these videos me and my brother just changed the CVT fluid and diff fluids on the 2011 outback he just bought. car has 144k miles hopefully it will be a good car for him he really likes it, thank you!!
Subaru specific or not, this was the best video I've come across at explaining how a torque converter works. Thank you so much for sharing!
You did great. I knew kinda how they worked before watching this video but now I have a greater understanding.
Good job Mr Subaru. Thanks for taking the time to explain all of it.
Thanks alot for this man. We're dealing with this issue on my wifes 2011 legacy. I'm debating on pulling the engine myself and you're videos are a great source of knowledge.
I just did one on an 11 outback. In my case, the engine needed timing belt and components plus water pump (247K miles, the belt was cracked all over every cog) and it needed valve cover gaskets, so just getting it ready for that work had it just about all ready for an engine pull, which was actually pretty easy. Since the transmission is what is holding the engine in with the motor mounts no longer holding the engine to the front cross member, those mounts are now at the front of the transmission. Makes it a super easy job to just pull the engine. Pulling the transmission requires probably more work, and you still need to get to all the bell housing bolts whether you pull the engine or the trans. The 250 lb transmission requires a very rugged and adaptable transmission jack, as well as pulling the drive half shafts from the front and the rear drive shaft, which requires separating ball joints and tie rods, plus the removal of the axle shaft outer nuts. So I pulled my engine and didn't even have to remove it from the crane to service the valve covers and timing components. Slide out the old TC and put the new and improved one in its place. First things first, you may want to drain the transmission first, although the torque converter will stay loaded with a few quarts of fluid. Have a good catch pan below your missing engine and drain that TC out because it will begin to drain itself as soon as it is off the transmission. One other thing that goes hand in hand with the TC lockup clutch release failure is the TCC duty solenoid, a pulsed solenoid that varies the lockup pressure for smooth engagement. Subaru sells only the entire assembly, but you can find the solenoid on the amazon marketplace. Mine was reporting a code indicating solenoid failure, and I got the one solenoid on Amazon for $165, instead of approaching $1K from subaru for the complete assembly. So the other part of the job is getting 12 Qts of CVT fluid, as well as possibly replacing a solenoid in the valve body. When you drop the pan, it is bonded to the transmission with a gasket making sealant, and with the bolts all removed, it will not budge. Look that process up, MrSubaru here has an excellent video on that process. You will have more fluid drop out from the pan when you get it separated, and the valve body, should you remove it. I used a commercial baking sheet pan on top of my rolling oil drain catch system which allowed no spills outside of the pan. Tip: if you want to save a lot of time, do not remove your intake manifold, which may appear to be called for in alldata manuals, for example. You do need to access the flex (drive) plate bolts between the engine and torque converter, but all you need to do is remove the throttle body to get to those bolts easily.
@@milehighmikey1 Hey man thanks for the tips!👨🔧👍🍻
Thanks so much for the best explanation of a torque converter I have ever seen! I did not know how the lock up function worked until now.Thank you great video.
Excellent video! My daughter's 15 mirage cvt w 76k miles blew out the torque converter! Factory repair more than car is worth!! Hoping to gamble w used tq. Oil and filter to get running and sell for less than total loss. Engine stalls at traffic light. Sounds just like your closing comments needing a needle bearing vs thrust washer!
This video helped me understand the clutch built within the Tq. THANK YOU!
Again....great video!! Amazing how much the TC is such the main player in getting your car down the road. most people having transmission problems will over look this simple but complex item.
What a fantastic video Mr. Subaru. I love the detail and specifics of how these work. Technical and understandable. Awesome.
Excellent presentation! Never knew how they worked and explains the stalling problems I've been having.
Thanks - I feel fairly technically competent but never took the time to understand torque converters. Much appreciated!
Had a 2012 Outback that sometimes felt like it was going to stall when coming to a stop but never did. Was not aware of the SB on this. Don't have it any longer. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks. I never really understood how the torque converter works...had a vague idea, but it's nice to actually see it visually. You explained it very well. Thanks!
Great job Mr. Subaru thank you I was a little fuzzy on the torque converter clutch lock up mechanism and the intermediate Sprague.
See the comment that I just posted!
Amazing video with great explanation of the engineering inside a torque converter. May I recommend putting in your title something like “How a torque converter works”? I wonder if that may help get even more views. Regardless, excellent video as always!
The level of detail was awesome. I'll be looking into how the automatic transmission works, just for a better understanding.
I will say, this does make me so much happier that all of my cars have been manual for the past 20 years. I don't have to deal with these issues, as long as I'm not driving/shifting like an idiot. :)
From what I just read the thrust washer is what was causing the "converter failure". They replaced it with a torrington bearing.
That's was very interesting thank you. I know what a torque converter does but all ways wondered how exactly a torque converter works. I definitely learned a lot from that video. Very cool 😎.
A good reason to change your automatic transmission fluid regularly............
You can't easily change the fluid in that transmission, it's a very involved process.
The wear point is the black phenolic washer eats into the mating surface of the turbine hub. As it wears, the lock up piston drags the front cover and stalls the engine.
Thank you for the class lesson know I now what happening to my 2010 Subaru and that's the only problem my car has.
Do you know we're I can find the best deals for a new torque converter?
Another great video and explanation.. Finally subscribed...
Thanks Mr Subaru 👍
I live in Italy and in 2004 I purchased a Toyota Avensis (basically an elongated Toyota Corolla made for Europe) 1.8 VVT-i (1ZZ-FE) equipped with a 4 speed U341E automatic transmission made by Aisin in Japan. Despite full service history, performed exclusively by the local Toyota dealer, I never asked to the dealer to change the ATF and the ATF filter, also because Toyota explicitly wrote in the user manual that it is not necessary under nornal driving conditions. I live in a montainous region and, despite driving almost always very calmly, after 12.5 years and about 72,000 miles, the torque converter seal started to leak ATF on the floor. The dealer replaced the torque converter and its seal. Afterward, the automatic transmission of my car performed perfectly, as always, but with one defect: the torque converter lock-up clutch didn't engage anymore, and the error code P0741 appeared on the scanner display. Check engine light on, VDC off, TCS off. Long story short: I ended up with a new automatic transmission, remanufactured by Toyota, installed by the local Toyota dealer. My question is: what could have been the root cause of the torque converter seal starting to leak ATF on the floor? Total lack of maintenance? Age? Mountaineous roads that keep the ATF hotter than usual? Clogged ATF filter due to the torque converter clutch lining being reduced to dust due to engaging/disengaging cycles driving up the mountains? My best answer is the latest I wrote, also because the torque converter lock-up clutch is not a multi-plate clutch; instead, it is a single layer ring-shaped clutch, not the strongest type, I guess.
Wow such a nice video. I didn't know the newer ones comes with a clutch for a full lock up.
A great accompaniment to the Weber Auto videos, thanks!
very nice explanation, suggest a follow-on that explains how the TC 'fits' into the next higher assy, and how subaru isolates the cvt fluid chambers from the diffs
Excellent video... Great coverage of the torque converter theory / how it works. The failure mentioned in the bulletin makes more sense now. How do you determine; whether it's the converter and not the lock up solenoid or control circuit that's failed? Is there a testing process?
There is. The gray connector on top of the transmission can be accessed via the engine compartment. if you check resistance between pin 2 (Top row and second front to back) and ground at the transs, you should get between 10-13.5 ohms of resistance. If out of spec, your solenoid is no good. Above 13.5ohms the computer will put out code P2673, TCC solenoid high and below 10 ohms the code will be P2674, TCC solenoid low. I got p2674 and when I checked it was at 9.7 ohms so the computer is very sensitive to this resistance and will (normally) set a code as soon as it is out of spec. We've had the torque converter issue for a few years and knew what it was but the code only came on recently when the solenoid went.
you did not do bad at all! great video!
Excellent explanation! Thank you for sharing your knowledge! 😎
Great job! I didn't know how the clutch inside torq conv. works.
Great content as always.
Still waiting for the repair video on "Transmission wiring Loom entry leak in a 4EAT "
Coming soon.
@@MrSubaru1387 sincere appreciation, will be waiting.
Maybe you could do a video on the right center differential fix to totally elimate binding
I have a cheap and dirty center differential fix when front wheels bind with the rear but it's not 100% the front and back still bind a bit when I do an extreme turn like a U turn and it feels worse at slowest speed makes car shudder a bit.previous owner ran the AWD with worn out dissimilar tread size tires but car has almost 270K miles! and runs great outside this problem and a small engine oil leak
This is more of an explanation than I’ve gotten anywhere else. Do you maybe have a differential in the chuck it bucket? Any of the parts that play a role in the AWD system between transmission to the wheels would be great if you do any more of these in the future. If you have already done videos of these parts let me know and I’ll check them out. Thanks
Superb explanation
Great explanation and video.
Glad it helped
Great video! This explains a lot of the issues I'm seeing in my 150 mile old reman transmission. Also, I suspect the reman facility Subaru uses doesn't give every reman unit a new torque converter. The lockup clutch in mine doesn't appear to be working correctly. I guess it's back to the dealer I go. Good thing I have 58k miles/6 years left on the CVT warranty.
One question where the Torque Converter Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid goes.
I am well past the extended warranty on mine at 110kmiles but mine has been a little fishy for 50k miles. It has never outright stalled coming to a stop but I have seen the RPM's drop to almost nothing then it seems to recover. It does seem to happen in winter more than summer but it happens very sporadically, could never reproduce at the dealer. Not sure how long I got till it finally gives up and fails. 2011 Outback.
Welp I love the wrx but I bought cvt it not bad. I'm scared that the cvt won't last too long so I trading it for isf 350. It was fun trying Subaru cars.
I learned a bunch
Good info in that video.
Somehow I never got the recall for this issue, if there ever was one.
I have a 2010 legacy with 154000 miles and it is now stalling when I brake to stop. I checked stopping in neutral yesterday and when in neutral it doesn't stall. So, do I need a new torque converter?
Fantastic explanation, thank you.
I just bought a 2014 outback with a CVT trans 64000 miles, when going from park to drive there's a 2 to 3 second before the trans engages is this normal, thanks a million.
Normalish. Some do have a as light delay to them.
I didn't realize the ring gear/flex plate is intrinsic to the torque converter. Presumably if a bad starter damages the ring gear, you need to replace the torque converter?
Love your videos! So I have a shudder at ~20mph when accelerating. I am torn between EGR issues or torque converter issues. I noticed that the shudder happens when the torque converter engagement changes from 50% to 100% (at about 20mph). With your video, it sounds like the main failure is when coming to a stop, not accelerating like my case. Do you think this points more towards EGR issues?
Very well done
Thank You so much!! It really is amazingly ingenious.
Crazy that someone thought this up decades ago, before the age of computer simulations and design.
My 2011 2.5i outback at times has that sudden drop in rpm at a stop. Same goes when going in reverse. It has not stalled yet but it kinds feels like it will. Im at almost 130k miles. Not sure if I want to keep it...
So that’s what’s in there! Thanks.
Nice. where does one find service bulletins?
Very interesting. My wife's 2016 Forester XT has had similar behavior in the past, although I can't think of a time it's happened recently. When it did, it always happened on the first stop when everything was still cold. Are diferent torque converters used for turbo models?
Thank you for going over this. I'm currently having an issue with my 2011 outback 3.6r and am wondering if this assembly (or something related) could be the culprit. I understand it can cause a momentary loss of power at a stop, thus causing a stall, but could it also cause it to loose power occasionally on hills or when decelerating behind a car and just before re-acceleration, feel a loss of power again? I can counter the loss most of the time by giving extra gas to ensure that not too much power is lost, but I've been struggling with this issue for a while now. Changed my spark plugs (not coil packs yet), had to change a nock sensor, and some wiring lost to rodents, but the issue persists. I know she's due for the 120k service (she's at 125k), but I'm also afraid of shelling out for that in case this issue is bigger and needs addressing sooner. I want the servicing, but with this one being a big one I'm afraid I won't have the $ to fix whatever is found. I will continue researching, but if you have input on what to look into further, it what you would do, I'm all ears. I'm trying to keep this thing running so I can pass it to my daughter at 17 (march 2025), but I still need to use it till then. Plus I know it needs about $2k in other maintenance, so I'm struggling to figure out if I'm dumping too much into it. At this point I'm wondering if doing the engine and getting a new one would be cheaper. 😅
Yep, my 2011 Outback with 103k on the clock would stall whenever I made a quick stop. Was over the 100k warranty, but Subaru split the cost with me. Still not happy as I have two 240 Volvos and both have over 400k on the engines and have only had water pumps and timing belts, and one has the Asian Warner auto which has also never been touched. So all this transmission issues at 100k and potential head gasket issues on the horizon does not make me happy. But I like the little car, and would rather have it than anything else on the market.
Awesome video man!
My 2011 Outback started stalling a couple days ago but only at the first couple full stops. It would not happen for the rest of the 150+ miles drive each time. Both times car was warm but trans prob wasnt yet. Bought the car from my parents at 125k miles and it always felt like it didn’t really enjoy the city stop and go very much. Felt a little bouncy or fighting itself from stopping at times. Figured maybe it was just the way the CVT was supposed to be. When i first got the car i brought in to dealership do a trans oil change but they advised against it. Now 141k miles with a possibly faulty torque converter I’d have to change much of the fluid anyways if i were to change the torque converter, Possibly doing harm to the trans? Ive had luck with an 08 Legacy Subaru trans shifting weird or holding gears just a little longer than normal fixing it with just a trans service. Ok my question finally. Do you think a “simple” trans service could fix the issue? u mentioned in the TR690, faulty bushing bearing ports doesn’t allow the fluid to bleed and take off pressure from the clutch plate to disengage it from the “flywheel”. My local dealership is charging $825 for labor and $1050 for the torque converter and fluids. Do i have them just change the old fluid that might be sludging when cold? Or go and change out the torque converter? I found the torque converter around 550$ online and at another dealership. Idk how much fluid is.
Great video.
great video, thanks
Cada cuantos km o millas se cambia el aceite de una transmisión cvt de Subaru. Gracias saludos desde 🇨🇱✌
En Japón, Subaru recomienda cada 30,000 millas, en comparación de Estados Unidos que dice que el aceite es de por vida. Yo lo cambie como parte del mantenimiento y corre mucho mejor.
@@eljessej gracias 👍
I'm always fascinated by how things work. Thanks for your description.I've got a 2006 Outback with a TZ1B7LFCBA transmission that's shuddering under load mainly between 40 kph and 60 kph and there is a "grundgy" feel and vibration when at idle. I've heard that the shuddering is a known issue with Subaru torque converters. Can you explain why that develops?
I had the same issues with a 2011 legacy 2.5i
I replaced it with a refurbished of of EvilBay
And still has same symptoms, when I installed it I only put around a quarter of transmission fluid in it, after I watched your other video I realized you filled it with more than that, so you think that caused my refurbished to fail again and would’ve happened even if I had one from Subaru, or it’s just that refurbished is not a reliable part
Great video!
We just bought a 2011 outback that lurches from a stop sign. Is this the cause? Or is it the valve body? No CEL or codes generated.
Very helpful
So how come there isn't a recall? And how do you go about contacting someone about it?
So are these CVT’s all ticking time bombs? How about the direct injection in the 2019 and newer models that are rolling out?
Good video. I had mine replaced under the extended warranty along with the torque converter. Well I'm 500 miles over the extended warranty and Subaru of America only offered a 350$ parts and service certificate. It sucks cause they changed the valve body barely 12k miles ago. It seems these cvt transmissions are doomed even with replacement. Same code as before. P2763 and p2762. Any thoughts? Maybe the wiring harness? That was the only thing that hasn't been done according to the tsb.
Does that stater move around inside the housing? I am noticing mine freely spins but also has play all around left right top bottom as if u were looking at it straight down.
Awesome explanation, I have always wondered how torque converters functioned.
Would this cause all the lights on the dash to be flashing? Chasing an issue with a 2011 Legacy 2.5l w/TR690.
Subscribed!
yes it would, from experience with the same car.
Hey mr Subaru I was wondering if you knew why my Subaru won’t shift in manual mode it just won’t work at all 2011 outback with tr690 but continues to work in automatic I had over filled the fluid a little bit because I forgot it has to be running I don’t know if I let too much fluid out or I also noticed my cruse won’t stay working and I noticed some vibrations could I have a bad cv axel thanks if you get time😮
I have a 2010 Legacy with. now 146K miles. I bought the car after it came off loaner status at about 6K miles and have had this problem coming to a stop and ALMOST stalling for maybe a 100,000 miles, meaning before 50K. It doesn’t always happen, probably one in twenty five or fifty times. I never knew that this problem was identified in TSB until the vehicle was over 100K miles, meaning I can’t get it fixed for free. I may keep the car another year or so and have never changed the CVT fluid. I know the debate on the definition of ‘lifetime’. Should I invest in the repair myself to save on trade-in value, or should I just discount the price to compensate. Other than replacing the alternator and this torque converter, it’s been mostly trouble free. Advice and opinions are welcome.
The fluid isn't lifetime. No debate over that. SOA pulls that garbage line. Subaru Japan still services the CVT like an old 4EAT/5EAT with regular fluid replacements.
@@MrSubaru1387 Hi, I think the reason soa does it is that Federal CAFE standards include transmission fluid. BMW too.
I had the solenoid valve body lock-up issue about a year ago and cleared it myself by checking the wiring.
Now I have the stalling and TC issue a year later. My transmission shop wants to replace the entire transmission with a used one at about $4.2k or a new one at $9k. Could really use an opinion from Mr. Subaru if I can get away with just the Torque Converter and new CVT fluid?
Very curious what route you took. I also have to do this now with my 2012
@@erinskelton I decided it was over the car's value, so I didn't do it. I still use the car, I just pop into neutral when stopping.
Can you discuss the 5EAT torque converter lockup shudder issue? I’ve seen a tsb on this and believe my 2012 3.6R is doing it. It shudders at mild accel, 5th gear only, 50 -60 mph. Feels like rumble strip or mild old school clutch chatter. Can initiate at will. Is it a similar clutch system?
Is this harmful to the transmission? What exactly is happening?
Was this ever answered? I have the same thing going on in my Tribeca, perfect besides that
Is there any way to make it lock up earlier. I go offroad and steep hills kill my 21 forester it will just stop half way up no tire spin .it just make a whining noise
So, can torque converter cause small hiccups of car? And if can, will it happen when car is in automatic mode or in manual mode or t does not matter?
Thank you. Disappointed that a smaller part gone bad screws the whole unit. Why can they not increase the strength of certain components to handle the pressure/wear on those components in the first place? Instead of waiting for stupid data to come in , certain wear points should be over engineered for want of better term to save throwing a whole unit like the cvt converter out. Feels just like crappy Jeep 3.7l engines and their valves...
I have an '05 Legacy wagon 2.5i that stalls, when coming to a stop, just like you described. New fluid, OE filter, and strainer. It happens when in 4th gear and the converter is locked...mainly when cold. If I manually shift down to 3rd she's fine and the converter unlocks. The car has 289k miles. Torque converter or valve body related? Thanks!
Really good explanation, but i want to know if has major difference between year or model between years for the TR690. It is the same thing for a Outback 2011 than a FXT 2014 and the new 2020 Ascent and Outback has the same transmission #? I have a strange issue in my Forester XT 2014 specially when climb hill when need more torque we feel hesitation and slipage, this is comming from torque converter or pulley or Chain in the CVT? Thanks in advance and continue your great works...
All three listed are different. The TR690 was changed nearly every model year. Slippage is usually chain slip.
yep, my car just did the p0700 code, i got 133000 miles and have a NOT OEM manifold. it still meets emissions. would the bulliten work for mine?
I have a 2010 subaru legacy 2.5i it seems like my tort converter is not releasing when i come to a stop i can feel a holding or jurking motion and when excelerating there is a vibration in the drive train, i cant tell if it coming from the tort converter or the drive shaft, where do think i should go to have it checked out?
Does this apply to 2013 MY? Seems like the bulletins only talk about 10-12. I have a 13 outback that stalls out just driving forward and stopping in the driveway. Chugs when coming to a stop, most of the time will stall. Don't even have to get it up to lockup speed. Still torque converter? Thanks!
Check engine light on? Scanned for codes? Could be an unrelated drivability concern.
Hey MySubaru,
I have been having such an issue with my AT 06 Forester and was hoping you might be able to assist. My AWD does not work and I’ve been told it could be in my transmission (assuming it would be the torque converter?). I noticed it early winter season when I couldn’t climb the smallest of hills with snow on it and couldn’t even drive through more than a few inches without issues. What’s your thoughts?
So does the engine transmission bolt pattern match any other subaru transmissions?
Basically every Subaru engine and transmission bolt together.
I have a 2018 forester with a manual transmission. Any recommendations to improve the torque? I bought larger tires and the torque has dropped more than expected.
Cool
Hey I have tc690hdkaa where the wheel is lock up could it be a torque problem
So basically change the fluid regularly then?
Hi , @MrSubaru1387 , i have an Outback Diesel, 2015, CVT, and 2 days ago , first start in the morning, engine and CVT cold have a strange symptom : when trafic is crowded and need to stop , RPM drop for 1s under 400RPM , if i release the break , go back to normal. Happened twice in 2 different days , but the symptom is not present with normal temperarure to motor or CVT. Can this be a torque converter problem from your experience? Thanks in advance!
I'm not very familiar with the EE20 diesel engine, as we never got them here in the states. May just been an issue with engine idle, not connected to an issue with the transmission. If it were a gas engine, I'd advise a throttle body cleaning and idle relearn procedure to start.
@@MrSubaru1387 Thank you for your reply , i was thinking you are not familiar with diesel. I don't have any error code and the problem appear only when the engine/transmision is cold . I was testing 1:30h after ,with my radio turn off to listen for strange sounds ...the problem doesn't appear again..i don't have the feeling that transmission sleeps or idle too much between D and R . If it is a transmission problem what i could think is a low lvl oil and when the temperature raise, oil expand and everything goes well. I will check to my Subaru dealer the problem . My Outback is 2015 / 163k km ...so the transmison could be out of warranty by 2k km . The oil was change 2 times , at 69k and 143k ..
At the end want to congrats you for all the infos we got and your hard work on this channel.
Regards,
Fun!
Totally off topic but does anyone know what I’m supposed to do with tube of maybe “dielectric “ grease that came with my clock spring or roll thingie.
Can I ask where you got the SSM software that you use and is it available to the anyone?. Thanks
Jdmfsm.info
@@MrSubaru1387 Thanks. just had a quick look there and it looks like its just for manuals? I"m referring to what you use to clear codes and reset/reprogram ecm's etc. (Subaru Select Monitor) Cheers
@@thebagdersarse5824 oops. Sorry. Misread. You can't search Free SSM. That's SSM type program, limited functions, but free. SSM III ans SSM4 are several thousand dollars to lease. The interface module is also a couple thousand.
@@MrSubaru1387 Thanks. ;)
Would you be willing to connect with me regarding a CVT issue I'm having. Have talked to a few different dealers and am getting different diagnosis from each. After watching several of your videos and doing my own research, I feel like I would like another opinion from someone who isn't just trying to take my money without actually getting to bottom of the route cause. How can get in touch with you?
like I told you...........aaaahhhhggghhhh!!!!! My wife sez that all the time.