Also, the only game where Gible can be obtained early is in Platinum; Diamond and Pearl also require Strength to access Gible (which is where BDSP copied from).
@@flashdrc I found Dragon Rage not to be good on Gyarados (for completing the game). My other moves would 1 shot enemies (body slam / bite / bubble beam / thunderbolt / etc), but Dragon Rage wouldn't 1 shot anything, making it weaker than my other moves. Dragon Rage also had low PP, so I just skipped learning it altogether.
...do you understand what "40 flat damage" means? of course it doesn't one shot in late game. it does 40 HP of damage every time, though, making it incredibly good early game. which is what they were talking about.
@@EEEEEEE-g4p I'm talking about early game, the cave that you go after the electric gym, before the ghost town. Dragon rage doesn't 1-shot mobs in that cave. And dragon rage has PP of 10. You can kill 5 mobs with that. Of course it's a good move if you don't stack TMs on the gyarados - while I give bubble beam, body slam, and thunderbolt to the Gyarados, so there isn't room for dragon rage.
Weirdly enough, the Gible line is the only pseudo that’s been implemented properly. Available relatively early, can contribute as a basic & stage 1 Pokémon, and has a late final evolution that helps sweep & is majorly useful against a bunch of key fights.
16:30 There is another drawback. The catch rate is 3. Beldum's line is tied for the lowest catch rate in the game and the lowest of all non-legendaries. Its so annoying trying to catch it.
I recently played Y, and had no intention of running Goodra, because I've never really liked it. But then the game decided to give me a shiny, modest Goomy, and I was suddenly Goodra-pilled. I definitely gained more appreciation for it, after using it. It's a good general special attack soaker, even with no SP def investment
Gen 6 games suck a lot by how ez they are. Even with my underrated starter Chesnaught (My RL rival chooses Froakie, so I have to go with Chespin) I roll over the game, so even with a bad mon, you won't get issues to beat Kalos games.
You know what’s especially stupid? Gen 1 wasn’t originally gonna have pvp battles. It was a last minute addition requested by Nintendo. So the argument “At least Dragonite is useful for fighting your friends” almost didn’t even apply there either. They made Dragonite with the expectation it would be used as Lance’s ace, and an exp grinding nightmare for your own team.
The modern philosophy of late-game, low-investment Pseudos has another fundamental problem: if you catch them just a few levels before their final evolution, then what's the point of the other two stages? Even if we accept that it should be a multi-stage Pokémon, one of the three stages is going to go basically completely unused-either you catch it in the middle-stage (ignoring the first), or you catch it so late in the first that it's going to blow through that in a single level. Sure, the earlier games' Pseudos were more of a time-sink than a worthwhile investment, but their first and second stages of evolution actually felt like meaningful checkpoints on the long grind... meanwhile, for newer Pseudo-Legendaries, that three-form evolutionary line feels like a vestigial holdover from early designs where the grind was meant to actually matter. Additionally, some of the Pseudos (Dreepy, in particular) evolve so late and are so bad in their first form that even trading them in to a new file isn't worth it, as they're basically unusable until they evolve.
I think the Gible approach was right. It's available early midgame and it doesn't take much time to bring up to the rest of your team. But you need to go out of your way to find it and explore, and you have to put the work in and use each of its evolutions. That said, Gen 4 has the one standard team problem. If you think of a Gen 4 team, it probably has a starter, Staraptor, Luxray, and Garchomp. (It's probably filled the rest of the way with Lucario, a Fossil, Floatzel, Gastrodon, or others) This isn't anything to scoff at, but the "cookie cutter Gen IV team" is a reflection on game design incentives.
One major thing you miss out by just getting the pseudo at the end of the game is all the EVs your Pokémon earns throughout the game. EVs are what massively differentiate our Pokémon to those of NPCs. Same level, same moveset. Our Garchomp vs Cynthia's Garchomp. We steamroll her's. This is one of the reasons rematch NPCs tend to be more difficult. Their Pokémon are given EVs.
this is a symptom of general design in pokemon. qol for the player(easy 2nd form/3rd form pseudo) at the cost of the actual experience. in SV, you start the game and get the "bike" within an hour, you get "fly" in even less time, and there's no effort required for either; getting these movement upgrades that have always been major rewards in previous titles is just free now, because making the player work is inconvenient. oversimplification and smoothing over all inconveniences hurts game design; it's okay to inconvenience the player if, ultimately, there is a reward for the struggle.
@@alicevioleta3184There is no reward in being forced to teach your Pokemon a move you don't want to teach it just to traverse around the world. SV is an open world game, the old school ways of traversing would never work for it. I for one am glad GF finally got rid of the goddamn HMs.
Cool little fact about Larvitar in Gen 2. You can actually get it earlier in Crystal for 8888 coins at the Celadon game corner, but that's pretty expensive
Little correction on Gible in Diamond and Pearl: you also need strength, the boulders were removed in Platinum to make the cave accessable early. Also in the same cave you can find earthquake soooo... Edit: Also you forgot to include Gabite in Platinum, it can be caught in the Victory Road
I think all dragon pseudo legendary don’t auto-learn any move with base power of 90 or above if it’s about their secondary type .. 😂 Some are also in worse condition, look Dragonite, IT’ YEARS and still it doesn’t and can’t learn any decent flying moves ☹️
This is how most pseudo-legendaries should be handled: Available both early and late game, so you can either use one all game long or pick it up at the end for free. So of course Gamefreak did this ONCE, then never again and even reverted this change for BDSP. Genius.
@@marcodipietro813Most people assume that Garchomp as a ground type can learn Earthquake naturally, so they usually use TM on other pokemon with high attack.
I know you're looking at this exclusively from in-game use, but I think the reason the earlier pseudos are what they are is because they were meant to be a reward to use against your friends, rather than something to actually help with the game. Most of these Pokemon are pretty much built up to be final bosses, so it kind of makes sense that, in context of the game, you fight against this super-strong 'final boss' Pokemon and only after you've defeated it (or really gone out of your way) do you finally get to use one yourself.
Makes sense for Dragonite, Metagros, Garchomp, Hydragon, (i didn't play past gen 5), but wtf were they thinking with TTar? Not a single NPC uses it, we even have a dark type Elite 4 member and they don't use the best dark type in the game, like come on! Edit, thought about it for and anwsered my question, Gold and Silver were the first to have boxart legends, which were both flying types, weak to rock and dark types respectively... you are absolutely right, some poor kid came to the school ground with his Ho-oh and Lugia and got swept by TTar 😂
A fair number of pseudos seem purely designed to be boss Pokemon. The ridiculous amount of effort it often takes to level them up to par with your team and late final stage evolutions is a testament to this.
One other thing that hurts Goodra's viability in XY is the presence of a 5% chance swooping encounter Hydreigon at lv 59 in Victory Road; you just throw a few TMs on it and the mans is ready to go. Between being faster and stronger offensively, actually having a secondary type plus Levitate, actually having higher physical bulk than Goodra, learning a setup move in Work Up - even if it's not the best, but at least it has the option - and U-Turn to get out of bad matchups without completely forfeiting your turn... yeah don't bother with Goodra (which is sad, justice for Kalosian blob dragon). Edit: oh yeah, this is without even mentioning the 20% chance to find Gible once you reach Route 13.
I was looking for this comment. I got used copy of x back in the day and hydreigon helped me go through the end game since the the player hadn't beaten the game yet. You can build it to however you need fit especially with reusable tms.
Ah, Gen 1 Dragonite. A massive, unrivaled 134 base attack, literally the highest in the game, and it primarily uses... wrap. RBY was a goddamn fever dream, I swear.
Until Gen4, every single dragon (and the ghosts), but particularly the Pseudos and Legendary, had this problem. Dragonite, Salamence, Rayquaza, even CPU Dragon Dance Kingdras could have massive attack, but their STAB was Special. The Physical/Special split happened at the perfect time for Garchomp (who also benefitted from a then-trolly base 102 Speed), then GF hosed Hydreigon. Finally got a Special Attacking Pseudo, but its Primary Stat is only 125, and was given a trolly-to-the-user base 98 Speed, and a level 64 Evo. Why, GF, why?!
No, it was an RPG. It was designed to be a classic RPG, not a competitive cheese factory. STAB was a bonus, not the entire point of the game as it is now.
1. Collect all 15 rare candies 2. Collect all gym badges 3. Go to Meteor falls and go to Bagon room 4. Find a level 35 Bagon and catch it 5. Use all 15 rare candies on Bagon 6. Bada-bing, you got yourself a nice level 50 Salamence
Ok but i already beat the game at that point. In emerald specific zigzagoon is strongest pokemon because pick up gives rare candys with can make you stronger a tad faster.
@@Chronobus i catch raquaza and use all candys that i collected on it then i walk with lv 100 legendary and stomp the elite 4. Plan b is deleteing the game with 6 lv 100 linoons that can learn almost all tms and all can do belly drum extream speed clean up.
I think with Tyranitar we’re really forgetting how common trading was. I feel like it was intentionally put at the end of the game so that you could trade it away, start a new game, then play with your new mon that you wouldn’t normally have. It’s like a badge of having beat the game already
I didn’t think about it, but your point on Garchomp is right. It feels like every member of the line gets to shine at some point or another. They are on par and competent with the teams they face. More early access to Psuedo legendaries would help a ton. Platinum Garchomp and Goodra-H are the only two I can think of with this trait, helps their usefulness stick out in my mind
You get the earlier pseudos in later generations like this, such as Dreepy/Larvitar in Gen 9 and literally every pseudo (other than Dratini, Deino and Jangmo-o) in Gen 7...
my god, thank you so much for listing the names of the songs you use. I hate it when I hear a song I like in a video and then can’t find it afterwards cuz it either wasn’t labeled/listed and/or you can’t make out parts of the melody with the person talking over it. Really appreciate when RUclipsrs do this and I’ve made a personal promise to do the same when I start making videos
In every video I watch that involves gen 2, no creator seems to remember that Larvitar is available at level 40 in the Celadon Game Corner in Crystal version. It’s still after the Elite Four, but much easier to level up and evolve before fighting them a second time. Or for using against Red.
I always thought that the purpose of pseudo-legendaries is to be a late-game boss. Think about it, in original R/B/Y Lance as a decoy final boss is the only trainer in the game that have access to pseudo-legendary that is also a dragon type. Unless you were lucky in Safari Zone, you didn't catched Dratini and in 90's you couldn't just check in the internet what dragon type is, so you basically had to figured it out on your own. Dragon resist Fire, Water, Grass and Electric - ensuring your starter will be countered. You'll probably had to experiment a lot with types to figure out that ice beat dragons. Combine unique type with very high base stats and you get a very difficult obstacle to overcome. Just like Onyx, Dragonite was never designed to be seriously used in normal playthrough. It was designed as signature pokemon filling role of the boss for you to defeat.
@annaangelic2318 Except it explains Dragonite, but doesn't explain any of the later pseudo legendaries. Tyranitar doesn't even appear in any of the E4 or Champion's teams in G/S/C (it doesn't appear in _any_ trainer's team, iirc) and that is the very next generation.
@@annaangelic2318I don’t think that’s fair to say, mainly because the video is analyzing the in-game acquirement and usage of pseudo-legendaries within a playthrough, not what purpose they serve when fighting against them in-game.
@@christiancinnabars1402 Tyranitar is an interesting case. He's first form - Larvitar - doesn't appear until the very last area of the game, right before an over-leveled post-game boss. He was clearly designed to not be used at all in normal gameplay. I think the reason for this was to provide an extra challenge in completing the Pokedex. Kingdra was introduced as a second dragon type and Dragonite was used in Champion fight to fool people into thinking there is no another pseudo-legendary. People who actually cared about completing Pokedex had to find Larvitar and grind a lot to evolve this beast. Remember that pseudo-legendaries are powerhouses, their total stats surpass even lesser legendaries like Articuno, they would be simply too powerful for normal playthrough. With Garchomp being exception, most pseudo-legendaries are usually restricted in evolving at high level, or being catchable only in late game areas.
@@yellowgreymorals While it's a fair point, the creator of this video seems to think that restricting pseudo-legendaries in normal playthrough is a bad game design. I wanted to provide a different perspective, that restricting a powerful pokemon was intentional design choice.
I don’t actually mind the babysitting aspect for the Pseudos. At first. If Dratini or Larvitar are weak and need a lot of care to level up, i think it really makes the eventual payoff that much bigger. The fact that Dragonair and Pupitar ALSO need babysat is frustrating. I get not making them top tier Pokemon but the fact that they feel like dead weight half the time makes grinding them up super tedious and not worth it.
Pretty much this. They practically spend the entire playthrough on the bench. Learned this the hard way when I played through Emerald and foolishly played through the game with a Vibrava.
The fact that you can catch a level 70 Rayquaze 1 gym before a level 35 Bagon is the final nail in the coffin. Sure, some people don't like using legendaries, but we are not taking any other self-imposed rules into account, so why this one? Sure Salamence is cool, but there isn't much of a case of it being worth it for five fights with some so and so matchups against the actually kinda threatening ones. Honestly, psuedos are rarely broken even in games/hacks where they are available early, since the high EXP-need and late evolution levels often leave them lagging behind the party without special treatment.
I get the feeling Rayquaza in Emerald wasn't intended to be Level 70 and someone forgot to change it to Level 45 to match Groudon and Kyogre in Ruby and Sapphire respectively.
I actually like that pseudos are more accessible earlier on nowadays. Gen 4, 6 and 9 all have their pseudos be obtainable early on or midway, they evolve soon, don’t lag behind the rest of the team and still dominate later on. Also, I disagree on Frigibax and Goomy; they’re both more than usable until they evolve and catching their evolved forms later on isn’t necessary at all
@@mujigant The only realistic one imo for a good amount of time is gen 2 dratini. Although you won't get Dragonite without excessive grinding for Elite 4, but Dragonair is neat for Claire
One lesson I learned late in my years as a Pokémon player is to bring fewer mons while playing games before gen 5 the earlier you are in the story. It keeps you from being underleveled by equally sharing EXP gained from trainer battles between the few mons you have so excessive grinding is not necessary. A lot of the routes pre-gen 5 have extremely low wild Pokémon levels. I wish I would've known this strategy a long time ago, but I always loved bringing lots of party members I guess to practice teambuilding. If your other mons are at the right level, then you can just switch-train your pseudo legendary while it's holding the EXP share; it gets more EXP while the other mon that switches in gets much less
Honestly they should do more of those wild low level final evolution salamance again. I think that's pretty cool to reward players with a pseudo at a low level to play with. I'd love to see Metagross running around.
Side note, those fan made Gen 5 style sprites for the Dragapult and Baxcalibur are so perfect and look authentic like you would see them in black and white. Makes me wish they would go back to that, so much more personality
Scarlet and Violet wild battles showed us that 3d models/animations could be very impressive and dynamic if they got enough polish. They just need to lock in and focus on battle animations instead of throwing all their time and budget into one-time per playthrough cutscenes for a generation.
@@-jobrocodwawz-6226 These 3 games recycled models from N64 games, all of which look way worse than both 3DS and Switch models. The animations are better, but also long, so they end up slowing the battle's pacing a lot. On turn-based RPGs, making most moves short and simple is the way to go, leave more detailed animations for signature moves.
It isn't fun because of the hax and isn't casual friendly because you need to EV train for a reliable chance of winning. The core of Latios, Swampert and Metagross can beat it though.
I recently did a playthrough on Platinum using the 5 pseudo legendaries available from Gen 1 to 4. I hacked them into the game as eggs and played through the game. It wasn't until I got to basically the very end of the game that I really even got a chance to use them because they don't evolve until such high levels. In fact Dragonite and Tyranitar I didn't get to use until the Elite 4 battles themselves, meaning you only really even get to use them properly in the post-game, by which point the main bulk of the game is done. I had much more fun playing the game doing a challenge in which I used only Team Galactic type Pokemon, such as Skuntank and Purugly. That was challenging but fun, and I at least got to use their final evolved forms for a good chunk of the game. My pseudo playthrough really wasn't all that fun, the Galactic run was way more enjoyable.
Garchomp’s debut in Gen4 was so busted that it banned to Smogon’s UBERS. Moreover, it’s the only Dragon type on this list who CANNOT learn DRAGON DANCE. 🦈 🐐
Given its base stats and moveset I can see why they didn't give it dragon dance. You would make a already strong mon even more stronger. It doesn't need it in the same way Wishcash does.
to be fair it had Sand Veil as its only ability while Tyranitar was an OU mainstay, so a strong Sand Veil user will _probably_ always get banned to Ubers because evasion sucks I'm not saying Garchomp isn't Ubers material by itself, I'm just saying that this was probably one of the primary reasons for its ban.
Only banned due to Sand Veil. It's great, but if it always only had Rough Skin, it'd be comparable to Dragonite overall in Gen 4. Salamence, love it or hate it, is better without sand support
@@ccjl9160 Sand Veil was definitely one issue but not the sole issue of Garchomp. It's also powerful, fast and bulky so you weren't always able to one-shot it so it could live or die by an untimely Sand Veil proc. Mence got the ban later on for the same reason Chomp did with Outrage being given to it but also because you had to use a Weavile, Mamoswine or a fast and usually frail revenge killer with a Choice Scarf with Ice coverage that couldn't get in with impunity.
In the glitchless red/blue coop diploma tas, the entire run revolves around getting a dragonite. It needs something like 1/3 of all the exp gained in the whole tas if memory serves, and the tas is getting every pokemon legitimately. It's faster for the tas to go out of it's way and gamble at the game corner for a few minutes, just to get dratini earlier and a few levels higher.
Haxorus felt like the actual Pseudo legendary of Gen 5, especially with its great physical offensive stats even as a Fraxure and Drayden and Iris using it as their ace
Haxorus is low-key one of the most consistently awesome Dragon-types of all time. Anytime it's available it's usually primed to kick ass in the late-game about as well as Garchomp can but without the STAB Earthquake.
I feel genuine fear every time the opponent sends one out in-game, like, FUCK. 147 Base Attack. solid 97 Speed. if it's allowed to get off a single Dragon Dance, it's so Joever. you're done.
I mean, pseudos were kind of designed as a late-game reward, with tyranitar in particular infamously being a really awesome pokemon, with it's cool-kid-at-the-playground status furthered by the fact that pretty much everyone knew that you had to basically beat the whole game and postgame AND THEN go grind your larvitar/pupitar up to level 55 to evolve it? I may not like the idea of making your best designs not even really usable in playthroughs, but I at least see the logic behind it
Great video! If memory serves, that gen 4 early Gible was actually Platinum exclusive, with Strength being required in Diamond and Pearl, which is why it’s required for their “faithful to a fault” remakes. I actually have a rather unusual style of playing Pokemon games, where I will breed an entire team of six Pokemon and trade their eggs to a fresh file. This gives me that “Zero to Hero” opportunity with all of them, as late availability is completely removed, but it also highlights the early deadweights. Deino and Dreepy are downright atrocious, while Gible always shines for every reason it did in Platinum. Most of the rest are fairly mid, but Beldum is actually an interesting case, as its performance varies drastically depending on if it can learn Iron Head and Zen Headbutt as a Beldum. It’s deadweight when it can’t, but pretty incredible when it can.
Using the gift beldum in oras kinda satisfied the zero to hero arc. it only knows takedown and the event move hold back which is just a reskin of false swipe. it's fine to just use takedown until the first gym, then it feels bad for 10 levels, but at level 20 it evolves and immediately learns metal claw and confusion.
No mention of the Alolan appearance of Beldum when it's actually different than it was in B2W2 due to actually having something resembling that "zero to hero" arc you were talking about? Like yeah, Salamence is there, but it feels weird to not even mention it.
Gen 7 literally has every single pseudo for this... The famous Salamence fights also allow you to train up a Bagon, and then Larvitar and Goodra are availible in the srd island, Beldum and Gabite in the 4th island and Dratini and Kommo'o in the 4th island (the only one missing is Deino, which is an Island Scan and is actually the first availible of them all)
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the intentions behind pseudos being so late game yet starting at such a low level was that they wanted you to trade them to new games, as some sort of archaic New Game+ reward kind of thing. A "hey, you beat the game, now trade with your friends and use this cool new Pokémon in a new file." That feels like the weird kind of forcing-people-to-trade thing that GameFreak likes to do.
You'd think that GF would've figured it out while making Ghetsis have a Level 54 Hydreigon, that they'd ask "hey, uh, why this dude evolve so freaking late again?" and fixed it. Like, for Lance in GSC, I get it, because it was Gen I and they just had to make it work under the circumstances presented to them. But Hydreigon was new and they had the chance to go back and fix it's level curve and instead, they kept it absurdly high.
psuedo legendaries are strong but its a pain in the ass to grind them especially when u get them very late and most of the time there's always better options which are early and strong like nidoking
I feel like the first couple Pseudo legendaries are more designed to be used by npc’s than actual players. They’re powerful Pokémon that suddenly appear during late game fights. They’re hidden away in obscure or optional late game areas so most players never encounter them prior to the Pokémon league, creating a sense of shock value when Elite four members or Champions send them out.
If you think these games are designed with competitive play as the main concern you are clowning yourself. They are designed for the single player experience. No-one cares about competitive here.
In Scarlet and Violet, starting with Deino is dastardly. Buff his stats. Give him ice fang, bite, Fire fang, and dragonbreath. That’s a killer starter. And it’s the 0 to hero ark that will literally take your entire pre-game playthrough before he reaches his final stage. I like the Deino line
The point of Pseudo Legendries, based on their design, is cool and strong Pokemon. Yes, it's a pain to obtain and train, but so is catching/breeding shiny Pokemon. And boy, do people love doing that.
I think the main reason for Pseudo Legendaries is that a fully grinded Pseudo legendary is built to dominate professional Pokemon battles that ban Legendaries. But they are not good for speedruns yeah.
Why are the only two aspects of the game you're considering are things that are done by a wildly small minority of the people that buy the games. Most people are kids and casuals that just play through the game normally and never participate in an official Pokemon tournament and never decide to start a timer and play the game as fast as possible. This video is just going over what a regular person is going to want to do while playing the game
@@Weatherman4Eva They know what the video is for. They're just positing a reason that pseudos are typically designed the way they are. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.
Well, for example, it's true that platinum glitchless speedruns _do not_ catch Gibble. That's not really a fair expectation though, since they only catch Starly and Bidoof for HM, then proceed to steamroll the rest of the game with their starter... It's cool if it's just not that deep, but if minimizing grinding = speedrunning in your mind then that deserves some reflection, since it's just not true. Your time has inherent value, to you and to others, and it's worth conserving that time so there's more to share.
@@Weatherman4Eva I am not single outing examples, but those are the types that basically make the best RUclips videos. But the real issue hard-core gaming or not is ask yourself this. Is it worth putting excess investment relative to the payoff not being that much better than starters or other common Pokemon?
@@crazyMLC What do you mean? Minimizing grinding is a key factor of speedrunning. The objective of any speedrun is to beat a game or reach a specific goal as fast as possible. Of course a pokemon that requires a high investment to yield good returns will be skipped for something that has much better availability and is reliable for the entire game.
Pisses me off all these npcs get to use pseudos by cheating but we can't. I won't understand peoples defense of Hydreigon or gen 2 Dragonite because of this
One thing you forgot to mention is that you also get Earthquake in the same room as Gible. So it gets its best ground type move minute one. That’s amazing for it
An interesting parallel to this idea would be fire emblem. The idea is that at early on, you get a "jagen", stupid powerful at the start but their power trails off as you progress and your other characters get stronger while the jagen remains stagnant. Near the endgame however, you get an "est", a character that is very weak when you first obtain them, but has insane growth and will become on of your strongest members if you're willing to put in the work. The problem with this is that jagens often stay strong for far too long to be worth giving up for most of the game, while the experience you put into an est at the end could be equally (and arguably better) used for other characters. Overall, the jagen will be many times better than an est despite the intended purpose.
Pseuso legendaries have always been weird to me because for being "pseudo" they're actually just stronger or equal to basically every legendary minus the boxart frauds
@@moonmoon4537 yeah that's what I meant, because in terms of like actual strength they're sorta all over the place (even if pseudo legendaries still tend to be stronger overall than the "minor" legendaries)
Legendary bird that marks the coming of winter, having unmatched control over Ice that, in some representations, gives it enough power to threaten bringing about the end of the world: 580 bst Smart af computer: 600 bst
Garchomp was really good in Platinum. Getting it early, it actually put in the work as a Gabite, and was solid throughout the game. Then it evolved, and became super powerful. Perfectly designed pseudo legendary Pokémon.
When I ran through shield, I managed to get a Larvitar raid super early, and since Ttar is one of my all time favorite Pokemon, I grabbed that bad boy up, and used him the whole game. Pupitar in Gen 8 is surprisingly not dogshit, with access to STAB Earthquake and an okayish 85 attack for midgame. Final fight came down to Dynamax Ttar vs. G-max Charizard where I oneshot the Charizard through a resist berry. It was truly glorious, and I was glad to live the Zero to Hero with my boy after all these years.
What I think the need to change for pseudos to function better in a playthrough is that their evoultion levels need to be lowered, so you can use them. The First stage should evolve at level 24-28 then the second stange should evolve at Level 44-48, None of this lv50+ or lv60 evolution requirement, why is that a thing? The lower level requirements allow the first stage to be placed around Badge 3 or 4. Then as the second stage starts to fall off it evolves into the final stage. This change would help Dragonite and others if they evolved earlier so they can contriube. Allowing people enjoy that zero to hero feeling. Someone should mod into a game.
5:03 In Crystal, level 40 Larvitar can be bought from the Celadon Game corner for 8888 coins. Mind you it's still late, but if you beeline for it in Kanto you can pretty reasonably evolve it to Tyranitar before Red and it basically solos him even when first evolved. Plus, you can use it in the Battle Tower (if you care about the post game)
Thank you for acknowledging Metagross, and please give us a tiny chance to find Beldum in Granite Cave or Meteor Falls in your upcoming Emerald Legacy romhack so it can finally have an actual chance to shine in its debut region. I honestly feel that it’s better than Salamence since it has less weaknesses, can take hits better, and evolves early enough to be of use, but it doesn’t get to show that off because you only get Beldum as a gift from Steven in the postgame!
Something I notice that's kind of odd with the newer games is that while their own pseudos are only available late game, they have older psuedos that essentially function like gen 4 Garchomp. In Sun and Moon you can catch Bagon on the first island and you can get a Metang in the mid twenties, in SWSH Isle of Armor you can get a Jangmo-o around level 20
I caught a Gible after the Snowpoint Gym. I used Gabite throughout the whole Team Galactic arc, and I actually EV trained for the first time in my life, a Garchomp for Attack and Speed. I have to point out that, I took the time to train my pokemon only twice - once before gym 1 and once before gym 8, both times to match the levels to the gym. It's hard to understate how much value Garchomp provided for the rest of the game. Garchomp hard carried so many fights I was genuinely impressed. A level 52 Garchomp standing it's ground against the whole team of Cynthia..... nothing short of a legend. I felt like I earned that win, more than ever. Thank you Garchomp, you magnificent bastard.
I really wish that game freak will create a pseudo legendary dragon/fairy type in gen 10, that will be epic and i will surely put that pseudo in my playthrough team
Counter point, the Wi-Fi Shiny Beldum holding its Mega Stone released during ORAS's launch fits the Hero arch you want so much. It was on my team through my entire playthrough.
Deino and Dreepy are a really weird cases of designing a pseudo-Legendary because it not evolving until Level 50 basically means that you can never really put it into the early game of a later generation. It's going to be deadweight for the entire game, so you're pretty much forced to include it late every time unless you want to saddle people with a middling Pokémon for the majority of the title and the early parts of the post-game.
Most pseudos are ests. Best example is Tyranitar in GSC. You need to beat all 16 gyms to catch Larvitar who is horribly weak for that point in the game, but if you train it up to level 55 it dominates the final fight against red.
Magikarp exists and fits the idea for the Est archetype far better. It's more appropriate to say that most Pseudos fit the more practical definition of an Est character: An underleveled, underpowered unit who joins too late to contribute right away and needs to be trained with a decent amount of favoritism to eventually turn out pretty awesome but how valuable that actually is not consistent.
@@cartooncritic7045Magikarp moreso fits the villager archetype. Ests must come late game, but you get villagers near the start of the game. Big difference is that Magikarp is actually worth the training arc unlike most villagers
The only games I can think of where it’s worth using a psuedo is HGSS since you can get Larvitar in the Safari Zone and have pretty much all of Kanto to use a Tyranitar. Then there’s Platinum because of how much exp you get you can get a Garchomp pretty easily.
I have to say, Garchomp is also awesome in XY. You can get a Gible right before the fourth gym, and evolve it just before the gym as well. It’s good but not super OP as a Gabite, but the reward feels so good with Garchomp. It’s also the only place in the game you can catch one. It obliterated the E4, too. I guess more time with Gible would have been nice, but either way super well designed. I named mine the “Godfather,” and is probably my favorite team member of all time. Whenever I had to let another team member faint to bring him, I said they were “doing a favor for him.” Credit gang
Hisuian Goodra is honestly my favorite psuedo. I managed to trick my way over to its location without the Surf equivalent before fighting the second Noble. Goomy was valuable for a while and getting it to evolve was easy. Great type combo, great design, great moves... easily my favorite.
Hydreigon is designed to be catched in the postgame. I think game freak in the early years wanted sudo legendarys to be the last one you evolve for the pokedex and have no use in the main game actually. They should be that super strong pokemon you find super hard (1% chance in victory road deino or the super rod catch in the safari zone of dratini) so you can bully your friends with it or at least say omg you never have THIS super strong dragon/supercomputer (yeah this one is a gift and everyone prop had it) here! Garchomp and Kommo-o are the exceptions, and all the other ones follow that design choice. I mean dreepy learns NO moves to level fifty!
His points make sense, but I think he is forgetting one thing. I dobt many children (the target audience) plays the game following "the level curve". As a child, I would spend hours grinding wild pokemon, rematching trainers and battling and losing to the elite four. My pokemon would be way overleveled and I would easily be able to get the pseudos fully evolved.
5:17 you can get a Larvitar from the Celadon Game Corner at Lv40 in Crystal Version which by that point in the game, getting it to Tyranitar won't take that long and you still have several gym leaders and Red left to battle
It's still a massive time eater since you need to get all the coins to afford it in the first place, still need to grind it up and due to the lack of ev it won't even be that good. It's a way to play the game, but much less effective than to just try and finish regularly at this point.
@@KSmanderes it doesn't matter, when you have two options and one finishes the game in an hour and the other takes 3 hours, you don't need to be a speedrunner to realize the second option is the worst.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 it does make a difference. If you're trying to beat the game in a short time, I can understand. But if you're taking your time with the game anyway, it's not as big of a time commitment overall. And I say that as someone who put 200+ hrs into my first playthrough of Crystal Version as a kid from just taking my time exploring and trying to complete to Pokedex as well as the game. 1 hour was kinda trivial in the grand scheme of things. Even if you put nowhere near as many hours into a given playthrough, grinding is a big part of RPGs. And in a generation of Pokemon where most wild pokemon are under-leveled for the trainers you battle in their area, grind is inevitable in some form. Plus, if you count beating Red as the endgame, you're probably gonna spend at least an hour grinding your level ~50-60 team up to best him anyway. Even if you catch a lv 50+ pokemon in Mt. Silver, you're gonna have to grind it at least a little bit to help with red.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 The Kanto section of the game was clearly designed to be played at a slow pace. It was not designed to be a speedrun from Lance to Red. Trade in a Mt. Silver Larvitar to a new game after defeating Bugsy if not having one in the early game is that big of a deal.
I love this channel, found Pat through zombies back in the day and he is doing crazy things in the Pokémon community. Makes the complicated stat/strategy parts of Pokémon so palatable, big love Pat
I actually love the old pseudo model. They’re supposed to be the biggest and baddest, not something to crush a playthrough with. And I think the grind for them is even more endearing
You missed a detail about Baxcalibur. In SV, if the _Caught Level_ is higher than your _Gym Badge Obedience Level,_ then it won’t obey you even as a wild catch. So yes you can get the high level Arctibax, but it doesn’t obey for a few Gyms. What is the lowest level you can catch Frigibax for obedience, and how rewarding is the Zero to Hero arc?
@@NiseGen-13So your solution to a pokemon having very bad availability, requiring quite a lot of investment that takes away resources from other easier to use pokemon and might not even obey you right away... is getting a lv 1 version of the pokemon, which requires monumentally more investment than the thing you just caught as an egg machine.
@@darkfiredragon3410 In response to the original post regarding the Zero to Hero Arc, yes. Starting at level 1 is a good place to start. If you are referring speed runs, then I could say you have reading comprehension problem.
@@NiseGen-13 I'm literally just talking about regular, casual playthroughs - the exact same scenario the video and OP were talking about btw - where most people either can't or don't bother breeding stuff from another save, and thus have to deal with the full brunt of the availability and investment problem pseudos have. Even if someone can and does bother sending over eggs from another save, that first save also had to face this problem so we got back to square one: most pseudos not being the effort, and in Arctibax's case it might not even obey you when you first get reasonable access to it. In this scenario, breeding is only a means to avoid in future runs the hassle of having to get to the point where you can even find the damn pokemon in the first place, and does nothing to solve the core issue. You accuse me of having reading comprehension issues, yet you brought up speedruns when nobody was talking about them.
@@darkfiredragon3410 You have reading comprehension. Additionally, what are you talking about? Eggs? Saves? Cannot Breed? This is Pokemon Scarlet and Violet where you can literally go anywhere, breed anywhere, and farm exp anywhere. You catch two Arctibax, breed them, and level up them by defeating Chanseys. Base on how you describe your casual playthrough in SV, clearly you are not playing it like a casual player. Runs? Core issue? Evidence that you are not a CASUAL PLAYER. I don't play the game trying to beat it as fast as possible. So no, you are not a CASUAL PLAYER.
You could argue that late-game pseudos like Dragonite and Tyranitar were not intended to be used in single player but to be ace units in multiplayer. Assuming they are actually good in RBY and GSC, they are your reward for continuing to play and grind post-E4.
15:22 It's actually easy. The game is designed with the elite 4 rematch in the lv70s as the end point, not when you fight getchis. Just like you don't consider the 2nd gen finished when you defeat Lance. That's why there are so many high level evolutions.
The problem there is that no one considers those. He even mentions "There is another Alder fight!" and still does not excuse it. No one casually kept the game going beyond the Getthis fight. That was the end. I recall numerous kids restarting their games after that fight. Ignoring EVERYTHING else , unless they had someone who was willing to trade Bidoof for one of those later generation encounters, strictly for those early fights. And then they all restart when good trading off back and forth. That was it.
@@nightdrivenen7909 Except ignoring a whole 1/3 of the game is on you. Just like ignoring Kanto while playing 2nd gen. You can certainly end on the league, but then you don't get to complain.
@@flipr52 You still get to complain about the Pseudo not being useable for your ENTIRE game - that is 100% still complain able-end of discussion. Your exception does not make the rule. If people do not get to see fights like N - or Ghetsis with the pokemon available while keeping it a challenge; then they have full rights to complain about that not being fun. Especially when the vast majority of the game's before had post-games of "Go do this for the fun of it. There is no challenge or purpose left so pointless." That is a viable complaint. The only one that matters is gen 2 where it is a specifically described and designed Sequal. Half the game is Johto - half the game is Kanto. And as he said, once more being available for ONE fight, and the absolute end with all 16 badges: is not fun. You do not get to do ANYTHING with it.
@@nightdrivenen7909 You keep talking about N and Getchis being the end of the game when they are the equivalent of reaching the distorsion world on Platinum. Or Rayquaza stopping the legendaries on Emerald. It's not an exception. Complaining about the viability of a pokemon when you leave the game halfway is stupid.
I have played the games to completion at least 4 times on each one. I know that N and Ghetsis are THEstory'sy end. Everything after them holds no weight as a story. Complete thePokedexx, fight Aldur, Cynthia, challenge the Battle Train, final two rival battles, do some extra battles against the Riches Family. Collect things. That's all about it. Nothing with ANY form ofstory-basedd meaning behind it. So yes, as thepost-gamee side activities; they are not like Kanto and Johto. There is no real reasoning to do them beyond doing them. No urge - no incentive - no final conclusion. That ended with Ghetsis and N. Ergo -GAME OVER.
Many of the Pseudos have 4x weaknesses. I guess it's to give them an Achilles' heel, but it still hampers their performance. Let's go over them: - Dragonite: Ice - Tyranitar: Fighting - Salamence: Ice - Garchomp: Ice - Hydreigon: Fairy (not in its debut Gen though) - Kommo-o: Fairy
There is still a possible grind arc in Sun/Moon and Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon. In my Ultra Moon playthrough i encountered a Bagon and caught it instead of the tedious SoS chaining, iirc Midir (named after the best dragon boss in gaming) evolved near the end of my playthrough after the garbage Ultra Necrozma fight. So there is still a zero-to-hero arc if you want it. Considering how much of a slog SoS chaining was for completeing my dex in Ultra Sun (I tried to get as many trade evos that way) on a post-game character. I would NEVER SoS chain for a super underleveled Salamence to stomp the early game.
Baxcalibur is like "wow guys, we made a Godzilla inspired Pseudo Legendary, isn't that cool ?" when Tyranitar exists, looks infinitely better and is more creative with the concept instead of just "Godzilla but its spine is Ice".
Very sick and creative vid! I see a lot of creators claiming to talk game design, but this is actually accomplishing that. The work into XP math and timing, stages of play, character arcs; i learned a lot!
They are basically mons that you grind up for the novelty rather than during a normal playthrough. They honestly should have evolved at level 35-40 instead to give them some usage
Then at that point why run other pokemon? Why would they make pokemon as strong as legendaries, that evolve around the same time as your starter. There needs to be some kind of punishment/grind/reward to it.
@@MrdonjuliothewickedThe punishment is the grinding to get a Mon at a level that your base team would probably already clear the game at anyways. Basically it's not useful at all to get these pokemon or waste your time grinding and even nuzlocking they especially suck being weak in form 2 or over the level cap by the end. No real uses in a normal playthrough aside that level 5 salamance
@@ivanbluecool you could genuinely just make that argument about any team member lol. Why get another teammate in general if you can already clear the game by those levels? Surely you don't actually believe the best of pokemon that can evolve, should all just evolve around the same time regular three stage evolutions evolve, just because the game made for literal children is easily beatable by adults regardless.
@@Mrdonjuliothewicked pretty garbage takes there mister "lol" kid. Let's go down the list of many mons that evolve below 40 and are beasts. Gengar Alakazam garados the starters which includes swampert btw Azumarill Espeon Umbreon silveon Lucario Mons who you can get during your normal playthrough or with a bit of trade and back which even the second forms are still good with Alakazam in gen 1 and 2 with the punch moves. Ones that work better and evolve sooner than dragon types that get worse by the gen especially when fairy come in. Dratini and co come late and are frankly not even that useful by the end for the time wasted to raise them to max. Your base team would and could clear the elite four and champion with ease at that level. Again only times you'd even have a chance to use the final evolution of these mons is to search for one or special gift like the shiny beldum but even then move pool is messy.
I feel it’s worth mentioning that Beldum can be encountered on Mount Hokulani with a rather generous (for a pseudo anyway) 10% chance, and it will be between level 25-28 in the regular games or level 27-30 in the Ultra games, meaning you can immediately evolve it into Metang, giving you a solid team member until it evolves into Metagross at level 45, which won’t be too hard with the party-wide exp share.
I like that pseudos are bad for a playthrough but good for endgame/postgame and competitive. It's one more thing to do near the end of the game that feels rewarding but not required.
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Plot twist: pseudo legendary is not mean for the player. 😮😮😮
In the section on DPPt, you state that you can get a low-chance Larvitar, but that's exclusive to post-game swarming.
Also, the only game where Gible can be obtained early is in Platinum; Diamond and Pearl also require Strength to access Gible (which is where BDSP copied from).
Sir do you have a release date for this? Please i need to know
Raycon Shadow Legends
Gen 1 dragon: my only dragon move does 40 flat damage
That’s surprisingly good on Gyarados since you get it early. Unfortunately for Dratini, by the time you get it, 40 damage just doesn’t cut it.
It's arguably worse competitively.
@@flashdrc I found Dragon Rage not to be good on Gyarados (for completing the game). My other moves would 1 shot enemies (body slam / bite / bubble beam / thunderbolt / etc), but Dragon Rage wouldn't 1 shot anything, making it weaker than my other moves. Dragon Rage also had low PP, so I just skipped learning it altogether.
...do you understand what "40 flat damage" means? of course it doesn't one shot in late game. it does 40 HP of damage every time, though, making it incredibly good early game. which is what they were talking about.
@@EEEEEEE-g4p I'm talking about early game, the cave that you go after the electric gym, before the ghost town. Dragon rage doesn't 1-shot mobs in that cave. And dragon rage has PP of 10. You can kill 5 mobs with that.
Of course it's a good move if you don't stack TMs on the gyarados - while I give bubble beam, body slam, and thunderbolt to the Gyarados, so there isn't room for dragon rage.
Weirdly enough, the Gible line is the only pseudo that’s been implemented properly.
Available relatively early, can contribute as a basic & stage 1 Pokémon, and has a late final evolution that helps sweep & is majorly useful against a bunch of key fights.
I wish they had all been designed like this 🫨
True
@@smithplayspokemonif the dratini line evolved around 45 level it also would be good in kanto
16:30 There is another drawback. The catch rate is 3. Beldum's line is tied for the lowest catch rate in the game and the lowest of all non-legendaries. Its so annoying trying to catch it.
Just get better at catching, duh.
I caved in playing B2 and just used a masterball on him after learning it's easier to catch actual legendaries rather than him
Yeah.. catch rate 3 is literally legendary catch rate of EVERY single legendary pokemon that has it.
There are exceptions like Dialga And Palkia.
@@deoxysandmew2162 Most box legends are exceptions for story reasons.
@@BlueSparxLPs Yea zekrom and reshiram have relatively high catch rates as well which makes sense since you literally HAVE to catch it in gen 5
You forgot that In Diamond and Pearl specifically, you can’t get a Gible until you have strength and 6 badges…
Hence why everyone plays platinum
I recently played Y, and had no intention of running Goodra, because I've never really liked it. But then the game decided to give me a shiny, modest Goomy, and I was suddenly Goodra-pilled. I definitely gained more appreciation for it, after using it. It's a good general special attack soaker, even with no SP def investment
You have seen the light of the Goodra line. A big friendly slimy dragon is so likable
This profile pic and name go crazy lmao
Gen 6 games suck a lot by how ez they are.
Even with my underrated starter Chesnaught (My RL rival chooses Froakie, so I have to go with Chespin) I roll over the game, so even with a bad mon, you won't get issues to beat Kalos games.
Using a freshly evolved Goodra to sack the entire round of league rematch is an awesome feeling, lol. Goodra is actually totally underrated
Finally! Some people who appreciate goodra :3
You know what’s especially stupid? Gen 1 wasn’t originally gonna have pvp battles. It was a last minute addition requested by Nintendo. So the argument “At least Dragonite is useful for fighting your friends” almost didn’t even apply there either. They made Dragonite with the expectation it would be used as Lance’s ace, and an exp grinding nightmare for your own team.
The modern philosophy of late-game, low-investment Pseudos has another fundamental problem: if you catch them just a few levels before their final evolution, then what's the point of the other two stages? Even if we accept that it should be a multi-stage Pokémon, one of the three stages is going to go basically completely unused-either you catch it in the middle-stage (ignoring the first), or you catch it so late in the first that it's going to blow through that in a single level.
Sure, the earlier games' Pseudos were more of a time-sink than a worthwhile investment, but their first and second stages of evolution actually felt like meaningful checkpoints on the long grind... meanwhile, for newer Pseudo-Legendaries, that three-form evolutionary line feels like a vestigial holdover from early designs where the grind was meant to actually matter.
Additionally, some of the Pseudos (Dreepy, in particular) evolve so late and are so bad in their first form that even trading them in to a new file isn't worth it, as they're basically unusable until they evolve.
I think the Gible approach was right.
It's available early midgame and it doesn't take much time to bring up to the rest of your team. But you need to go out of your way to find it and explore, and you have to put the work in and use each of its evolutions.
That said, Gen 4 has the one standard team problem.
If you think of a Gen 4 team, it probably has a starter, Staraptor, Luxray, and Garchomp.
(It's probably filled the rest of the way with Lucario, a Fossil, Floatzel, Gastrodon, or others)
This isn't anything to scoff at, but the "cookie cutter Gen IV team" is a reflection on game design incentives.
One major thing you miss out by just getting the pseudo at the end of the game is all the EVs your Pokémon earns throughout the game. EVs are what massively differentiate our Pokémon to those of NPCs. Same level, same moveset. Our Garchomp vs Cynthia's Garchomp. We steamroll her's. This is one of the reasons rematch NPCs tend to be more difficult. Their Pokémon are given EVs.
this is a symptom of general design in pokemon.
qol for the player(easy 2nd form/3rd form pseudo) at the cost of the actual experience.
in SV, you start the game and get the "bike" within an hour, you get "fly" in even less time, and there's no effort required for either; getting these movement upgrades that have always been major rewards in previous titles is just free now, because making the player work is inconvenient.
oversimplification and smoothing over all inconveniences hurts game design; it's okay to inconvenience the player if, ultimately, there is a reward for the struggle.
I know aggron is not a pseudo-legendary but i think its the best example of how they should be
@@alicevioleta3184There is no reward in being forced to teach your Pokemon a move you don't want to teach it just to traverse around the world. SV is an open world game, the old school ways of traversing would never work for it. I for one am glad GF finally got rid of the goddamn HMs.
Cool little fact about Larvitar in Gen 2. You can actually get it earlier in Crystal for 8888 coins at the Celadon game corner, but that's pretty expensive
Little correction on Gible in Diamond and Pearl: you also need strength, the boulders were removed in Platinum to make the cave accessable early. Also in the same cave you can find earthquake soooo...
Edit: Also you forgot to include Gabite in Platinum, it can be caught in the Victory Road
Sooooo gamefreak still fcked up by not giving earthquake to the ground shark pokemon with 135 atk.
I think all dragon pseudo legendary don’t auto-learn any move with base power of 90 or above if it’s about their secondary type .. 😂
Some are also in worse condition, look Dragonite, IT’ YEARS and still it doesn’t and can’t learn any decent flying moves ☹️
@@aleger620 truly. It learnt dual wingbeat in Sw&Sh. Took the move away in S&V.
@@susear5939 😥 . . .
A candle for Gyarados too
This is how most pseudo-legendaries should be handled: Available both early and late game, so you can either use one all game long or pick it up at the end for free.
So of course Gamefreak did this ONCE, then never again and even reverted this change for BDSP. Genius.
Tyrannitar is 100% just an objectively awesome Pseudo Legendary.
Unfortunate consideration: *Close Combat*
Aggron over Tyrannitar
It's worse than Dragonite tbh, especially when you face a fighting type, plus it's slow as hell.
@@rafearcher7882idea: don't send it against fighting types
He was insanely strong in Gen 2
Imagine raising a garchomp and realizing when you finally evolve it, it does not naturally learn earthquake.
Truely a gamefreak moment.
(The earthquake TM is in the same area as Gible, it's not that hard)
@@marcodipietro813Most people assume that Garchomp as a ground type can learn Earthquake naturally, so they usually use TM on other pokemon with high attack.
@@marcodipietro813
It shouldnt have to get to that point.
@ktosmiy9701 then I don't know what to tell ya, chain breed Earthquake onto a new Gible then
@@marcodipietro813 don't worry, I managed to get through the game with Dig
SmithPlays: "We need something with a zero to hero arc."
Goomy: 😃
SmithPlays: "Not you."
Don't forget 2-star raid Dreepy in Gen 8, Dreepy/Larvitar in Gen 9 and literally every pseudo (other than Dratini, Deino and Jangmo-o) in Gen 7...
Apparently not good enough to be a zero?
@@HasNoHaloGoomy in Legends Arceus: Zero to war crime
I know you're looking at this exclusively from in-game use, but I think the reason the earlier pseudos are what they are is because they were meant to be a reward to use against your friends, rather than something to actually help with the game. Most of these Pokemon are pretty much built up to be final bosses, so it kind of makes sense that, in context of the game, you fight against this super-strong 'final boss' Pokemon and only after you've defeated it (or really gone out of your way) do you finally get to use one yourself.
Makes sense for Dragonite, Metagros, Garchomp, Hydragon, (i didn't play past gen 5), but wtf were they thinking with TTar? Not a single NPC uses it, we even have a dark type Elite 4 member and they don't use the best dark type in the game, like come on!
Edit, thought about it for and anwsered my question, Gold and Silver were the first to have boxart legends, which were both flying types, weak to rock and dark types respectively... you are absolutely right, some poor kid came to the school ground with his Ho-oh and Lugia and got swept by TTar 😂
I can tell you've been working on this for a while since the stat colour scheme changes from Old Bulbapedia to New Bulbapedia
Made this video like 8 weeks ago but then had to delay it to get Emerald Legacy content out😅
Woot the man the myth the legend! Love your vids!
You know you're watching a Canadian when RUclips subtitles "out" with "oat"
Quaker Oatrage
Canadian: “how about that?”
American: “how a boot what?”
Oh that awesome.. I'm American. Look at my hat 😂 what you don't see; is my Americans flag shorts.
@@SirAuron777mmmmmm yeah 🤷🏾♀️
Always the telltale sign for me. Or sorrey
A fair number of pseudos seem purely designed to be boss Pokemon. The ridiculous amount of effort it often takes to level them up to par with your team and late final stage evolutions is a testament to this.
One other thing that hurts Goodra's viability in XY is the presence of a 5% chance swooping encounter Hydreigon at lv 59 in Victory Road; you just throw a few TMs on it and the mans is ready to go.
Between being faster and stronger offensively, actually having a secondary type plus Levitate, actually having higher physical bulk than Goodra, learning a setup move in Work Up - even if it's not the best, but at least it has the option - and U-Turn to get out of bad matchups without completely forfeiting your turn... yeah don't bother with Goodra (which is sad, justice for Kalosian blob dragon).
Edit: oh yeah, this is without even mentioning the 20% chance to find Gible once you reach Route 13.
I was looking for this comment. I got used copy of x back in the day and hydreigon helped me go through the end game since the the player hadn't beaten the game yet. You can build it to however you need fit especially with reusable tms.
as if XY are that hard games
@@theamazingspooderman2697 I never tried to claim so?
@@theamazingspooderman2697 where's my challenge mode _(one that isn't glitched or unnecessarily gated behind completing the game)_
@@darkfiredragon3410 so just use Goodra instead of going for Hydreigon
Ah, Gen 1 Dragonite. A massive, unrivaled 134 base attack, literally the highest in the game, and it primarily uses... wrap.
RBY was a goddamn fever dream, I swear.
strongest moves earthquake and body slam 🔥🔥 wtf is a stab move
Until Gen4, every single dragon (and the ghosts), but particularly the Pseudos and Legendary, had this problem. Dragonite, Salamence, Rayquaza, even CPU Dragon Dance Kingdras could have massive attack, but their STAB was Special. The Physical/Special split happened at the perfect time for Garchomp (who also benefitted from a then-trolly base 102 Speed), then GF hosed Hydreigon. Finally got a Special Attacking Pseudo, but its Primary Stat is only 125, and was given a trolly-to-the-user base 98 Speed, and a level 64 Evo. Why, GF, why?!
No, it was an RPG. It was designed to be a classic RPG, not a competitive cheese factory. STAB was a bonus, not the entire point of the game as it is now.
1. Collect all 15 rare candies
2. Collect all gym badges
3. Go to Meteor falls and go to Bagon room
4. Find a level 35 Bagon and catch it
5. Use all 15 rare candies on Bagon
6. Bada-bing, you got yourself a nice level 50 Salamence
You’d only do that if you really like salamance. Otherwise you could save those rare candies and have a level 85 rayquaza for the Elite 4
Ok but i already beat the game at that point. In emerald specific zigzagoon is strongest pokemon because pick up gives rare candys with can make you stronger a tad faster.
@@MiguelADav Yeah but Salamence is cool. Level 70 Rayquaza destroys the elite 4 already.
@@EnjoyGengar Then you could use those rare candies you saved up from Zigzagoon and get a Salamence for the Elite 4.
@@Chronobus i catch raquaza and use all candys that i collected on it then i walk with lv 100 legendary and stomp the elite 4. Plan b is deleteing the game with 6 lv 100 linoons that can learn almost all tms and all can do belly drum extream speed clean up.
I think with Tyranitar we’re really forgetting how common trading was. I feel like it was intentionally put at the end of the game so that you could trade it away, start a new game, then play with your new mon that you wouldn’t normally have. It’s like a badge of having beat the game already
@@RobertoWCruz Yes. This explains the design choice for Larvitar in Pokémon Gold and Silver. I believe they had the same idea for Metagross in RSE.
I didn’t think about it, but your point on Garchomp is right. It feels like every member of the line gets to shine at some point or another. They are on par and competent with the teams they face. More early access to Psuedo legendaries would help a ton. Platinum Garchomp and Goodra-H are the only two I can think of with this trait, helps their usefulness stick out in my mind
You get the earlier pseudos in later generations like this, such as Dreepy/Larvitar in Gen 9 and literally every pseudo (other than Dratini, Deino and Jangmo-o) in Gen 7...
my god, thank you so much for listing the names of the songs you use. I hate it when I hear a song I like in a video and then can’t find it afterwards cuz it either wasn’t labeled/listed and/or you can’t make out parts of the melody with the person talking over it. Really appreciate when RUclipsrs do this and I’ve made a personal promise to do the same when I start making videos
Level 48 to get a fully-evolved psuedo is so nice.
Plus Dragon and Ground is pretty nice typing.
@@ShiningJudgment666 Before Fairy types, Dragon/Ground felt like the best type-combo.
Especially considering you could get a level 40-ish pseudo legend right before the league lol its a free Garchomp
I don't like how many pokemon reach the third stage after level 50.
@@rjante2236dragon/fighting might’ve been even better, if only it existed before fairy existed to curbstomp it 😢
In every video I watch that involves gen 2, no creator seems to remember that Larvitar is available at level 40 in the Celadon Game Corner in Crystal version.
It’s still after the Elite Four, but much easier to level up and evolve before fighting them a second time. Or for using against Red.
I always thought that the purpose of pseudo-legendaries is to be a late-game boss.
Think about it, in original R/B/Y Lance as a decoy final boss is the only trainer in the game that have access to pseudo-legendary that is also a dragon type. Unless you were lucky in Safari Zone, you didn't catched Dratini and in 90's you couldn't just check in the internet what dragon type is, so you basically had to figured it out on your own.
Dragon resist Fire, Water, Grass and Electric - ensuring your starter will be countered. You'll probably had to experiment a lot with types to figure out that ice beat dragons. Combine unique type with very high base stats and you get a very difficult obstacle to overcome.
Just like Onyx, Dragonite was never designed to be seriously used in normal playthrough. It was designed as signature pokemon filling role of the boss for you to defeat.
When a random comment does a better job of understanding JRPG design than the video
@annaangelic2318 Except it explains Dragonite, but doesn't explain any of the later pseudo legendaries. Tyranitar doesn't even appear in any of the E4 or Champion's teams in G/S/C (it doesn't appear in _any_ trainer's team, iirc) and that is the very next generation.
@@annaangelic2318I don’t think that’s fair to say, mainly because the video is analyzing the in-game acquirement and usage of pseudo-legendaries within a playthrough, not what purpose they serve when fighting against them in-game.
@@christiancinnabars1402 Tyranitar is an interesting case. He's first form - Larvitar - doesn't appear until the very last area of the game, right before an over-leveled post-game boss. He was clearly designed to not be used at all in normal gameplay.
I think the reason for this was to provide an extra challenge in completing the Pokedex. Kingdra was introduced as a second dragon type and Dragonite was used in Champion fight to fool people into thinking there is no another pseudo-legendary. People who actually cared about completing Pokedex had to find Larvitar and grind a lot to evolve this beast.
Remember that pseudo-legendaries are powerhouses, their total stats surpass even lesser legendaries like Articuno, they would be simply too powerful for normal playthrough. With Garchomp being exception, most pseudo-legendaries are usually restricted in evolving at high level, or being catchable only in late game areas.
@@yellowgreymorals While it's a fair point, the creator of this video seems to think that restricting pseudo-legendaries in normal playthrough is a bad game design. I wanted to provide a different perspective, that restricting a powerful pokemon was intentional design choice.
In this house we do not slander Hydreigon 🤫
I don’t actually mind the babysitting aspect for the Pseudos. At first.
If Dratini or Larvitar are weak and need a lot of care to level up, i think it really makes the eventual payoff that much bigger.
The fact that Dragonair and Pupitar ALSO need babysat is frustrating. I get not making them top tier Pokemon but the fact that they feel like dead weight half the time makes grinding them up super tedious and not worth it.
personally it makes me more attached as well
Pretty much this. They practically spend the entire playthrough on the bench. Learned this the hard way when I played through Emerald and foolishly played through the game with a Vibrava.
Dude looks like he stole the declaration of indepndance.
The fact that you can catch a level 70 Rayquaze 1 gym before a level 35 Bagon is the final nail in the coffin. Sure, some people don't like using legendaries, but we are not taking any other self-imposed rules into account, so why this one?
Sure Salamence is cool, but there isn't much of a case of it being worth it for five fights with some so and so matchups against the actually kinda threatening ones.
Honestly, psuedos are rarely broken even in games/hacks where they are available early, since the high EXP-need and late evolution levels often leave them lagging behind the party without special treatment.
I get the feeling Rayquaza in Emerald wasn't intended to be Level 70 and someone forgot to change it to Level 45 to match Groudon and Kyogre in Ruby and Sapphire respectively.
@@ShiningJudgment666 Yes. That was a mistake. They accidentally allowed players to catch a Level 70 counter to Juan's Kingdra.
I actually like that pseudos are more accessible earlier on nowadays. Gen 4, 6 and 9 all have their pseudos be obtainable early on or midway, they evolve soon, don’t lag behind the rest of the team and still dominate later on. Also, I disagree on Frigibax and Goomy; they’re both more than usable until they evolve and catching their evolved forms later on isn’t necessary at all
Y’know, I’m now realizing I’ve never used a Pseudo as part of my playthrough team.
i used a dragonair for my hgss elite four team lmao then used tyranitar on the same playthrough
Cause you basically can't
Dreepy was my jam in sword/shield
Yeah same here, with the exception of Gible in Plat since it's actually available decently early
@@mujigant The only realistic one imo for a good amount of time is gen 2 dratini. Although you won't get Dragonite without excessive grinding for Elite 4, but Dragonair is neat for Claire
One lesson I learned late in my years as a Pokémon player is to bring fewer mons while playing games before gen 5 the earlier you are in the story. It keeps you from being underleveled by equally sharing EXP gained from trainer battles between the few mons you have so excessive grinding is not necessary. A lot of the routes pre-gen 5 have extremely low wild Pokémon levels. I wish I would've known this strategy a long time ago, but I always loved bringing lots of party members I guess to practice teambuilding.
If your other mons are at the right level, then you can just switch-train your pseudo legendary while it's holding the EXP share; it gets more EXP while the other mon that switches in gets much less
Yup, and if you're going for a Pokedex you can just continuously evolve Pokes along the way saving time without losing much exp.
Honestly they should do more of those wild low level final evolution salamance again. I think that's pretty cool to reward players with a pseudo at a low level to play with.
I'd love to see Metagross running around.
Would be so fun from a speedrunning prespective since metagross has a really low catch rate
When and what game did they do that in?
@@TheRoughGoOne of the later 3d games with the group text encounters.
@@TheRoughGo sun and moon
@@TheRoughGo18:56
Skip ad 4:04
Side note, those fan made Gen 5 style sprites for the Dragapult and Baxcalibur are so perfect and look authentic like you would see them in black and white. Makes me wish they would go back to that, so much more personality
looks better than the sprites on the switch 🤮🤮 those gen 5 sprites for new mons is what we need
I think scarlet and violet gave some of them an improvement honestly.
Scarlet and Violet wild battles showed us that 3d models/animations could be very impressive and dynamic if they got enough polish. They just need to lock in and focus on battle animations instead of throwing all their time and budget into one-time per playthrough cutscenes for a generation.
@@-jobrocodwawz-6226 These 3 games recycled models from N64 games, all of which look way worse than both 3DS and Switch models. The animations are better, but also long, so they end up slowing the battle's pacing a lot.
On turn-based RPGs, making most moves short and simple is the way to go, leave more detailed animations for signature moves.
This is why I like rom hacks
The more I learn about Pokémon the more I feel that it is fun despite game freaks best efforts
So what I learned from this is that nobody but me does the battle frontier when playing emerald
No i do frontier too, but only in battle factory
It isn't fun because of the hax and isn't casual friendly because you need to EV train for a reliable chance of winning. The core of Latios, Swampert and Metagross can beat it though.
Nah, I did too.
I sure did. Never completed the Battle Frontier though.
Likewise I got 7 silver symbols an 5 gold symbols couldn’t get the gold symbol for Brandon
I recently did a playthrough on Platinum using the 5 pseudo legendaries available from Gen 1 to 4. I hacked them into the game as eggs and played through the game. It wasn't until I got to basically the very end of the game that I really even got a chance to use them because they don't evolve until such high levels. In fact Dragonite and Tyranitar I didn't get to use until the Elite 4 battles themselves, meaning you only really even get to use them properly in the post-game, by which point the main bulk of the game is done. I had much more fun playing the game doing a challenge in which I used only Team Galactic type Pokemon, such as Skuntank and Purugly. That was challenging but fun, and I at least got to use their final evolved forms for a good chunk of the game. My pseudo playthrough really wasn't all that fun, the Galactic run was way more enjoyable.
Garchomp’s debut in Gen4 was so busted that it banned to Smogon’s UBERS.
Moreover, it’s the only Dragon type on this list who CANNOT learn DRAGON DANCE.
🦈 🐐
Given its base stats and moveset I can see why they didn't give it dragon dance. You would make a already strong mon even more stronger. It doesn't need it in the same way Wishcash does.
Pretty sure Goodra cannot learn DD either
to be fair it had Sand Veil as its only ability while Tyranitar was an OU mainstay, so a strong Sand Veil user will _probably_ always get banned to Ubers because evasion sucks
I'm not saying Garchomp isn't Ubers material by itself, I'm just saying that this was probably one of the primary reasons for its ban.
Only banned due to Sand Veil. It's great, but if it always only had Rough Skin, it'd be comparable to Dragonite overall in Gen 4. Salamence, love it or hate it, is better without sand support
@@ccjl9160 Sand Veil was definitely one issue but not the sole issue of Garchomp. It's also powerful, fast and bulky so you weren't always able to one-shot it so it could live or die by an untimely Sand Veil proc. Mence got the ban later on for the same reason Chomp did with Outrage being given to it but also because you had to use a Weavile, Mamoswine or a fast and usually frail revenge killer with a Choice Scarf with Ice coverage that couldn't get in with impunity.
In the glitchless red/blue coop diploma tas, the entire run revolves around getting a dragonite. It needs something like 1/3 of all the exp gained in the whole tas if memory serves, and the tas is getting every pokemon legitimately. It's faster for the tas to go out of it's way and gamble at the game corner for a few minutes, just to get dratini earlier and a few levels higher.
Haxorus felt like the actual Pseudo legendary of Gen 5, especially with its great physical offensive stats even as a Fraxure and Drayden and Iris using it as their ace
Haxorus is low-key one of the most consistently awesome Dragon-types of all time. Anytime it's available it's usually primed to kick ass in the late-game about as well as Garchomp can but without the STAB Earthquake.
I feel genuine fear every time the opponent sends one out in-game, like, FUCK. 147 Base Attack. solid 97 Speed. if it's allowed to get off a single Dragon Dance, it's so Joever. you're done.
Agree, it's freaking strong
I mean, pseudos were kind of designed as a late-game reward, with tyranitar in particular infamously being a really awesome pokemon, with it's cool-kid-at-the-playground status furthered by the fact that pretty much everyone knew that you had to basically beat the whole game and postgame AND THEN go grind your larvitar/pupitar up to level 55 to evolve it? I may not like the idea of making your best designs not even really usable in playthroughs, but I at least see the logic behind it
Great video! If memory serves, that gen 4 early Gible was actually Platinum exclusive, with Strength being required in Diamond and Pearl, which is why it’s required for their “faithful to a fault” remakes.
I actually have a rather unusual style of playing Pokemon games, where I will breed an entire team of six Pokemon and trade their eggs to a fresh file. This gives me that “Zero to Hero” opportunity with all of them, as late availability is completely removed, but it also highlights the early deadweights. Deino and Dreepy are downright atrocious, while Gible always shines for every reason it did in Platinum. Most of the rest are fairly mid, but Beldum is actually an interesting case, as its performance varies drastically depending on if it can learn Iron Head and Zen Headbutt as a Beldum. It’s deadweight when it can’t, but pretty incredible when it can.
You are remembering correctly
Using the gift beldum in oras kinda satisfied the zero to hero arc. it only knows takedown and the event move hold back which is just a reskin of false swipe. it's fine to just use takedown until the first gym, then it feels bad for 10 levels, but at level 20 it evolves and immediately learns metal claw and confusion.
@@waterierStone the event Beldum literally knows Iron Head and Zen Headbutt at lvl 5
When Smith talks about larvitar in Sinnoh, he forgot that swarms are only available after becoming champion
No mention of the Alolan appearance of Beldum when it's actually different than it was in B2W2 due to actually having something resembling that "zero to hero" arc you were talking about? Like yeah, Salamence is there, but it feels weird to not even mention it.
Gen 7 literally has every single pseudo for this... The famous Salamence fights also allow you to train up a Bagon, and then Larvitar and Goodra are availible in the srd island, Beldum and Gabite in the 4th island and Dratini and Kommo'o in the 4th island (the only one missing is Deino, which is an Island Scan and is actually the first availible of them all)
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the intentions behind pseudos being so late game yet starting at such a low level was that they wanted you to trade them to new games, as some sort of archaic New Game+ reward kind of thing. A "hey, you beat the game, now trade with your friends and use this cool new Pokémon in a new file." That feels like the weird kind of forcing-people-to-trade thing that GameFreak likes to do.
Does this mean Bagon would be earlier in Emerald Legacy? Or maybe Beldum after you saved the Space station?
Well, we got Larvitar before Gym 1 for Crystal Legacy, so I don't see why we wouldn't have this happen again
Maybe put Beldum as a gift from Steven in Granite Cave
@@senabecool7232 Or a rare encounter in New Mauville.
Last I heard the plan was to put wild Beldum fairly early, like Dewford.
@@TheAzulmagia what, isn't that like after Gym 5, bit too late isn't it
You'd think that GF would've figured it out while making Ghetsis have a Level 54 Hydreigon, that they'd ask "hey, uh, why this dude evolve so freaking late again?" and fixed it. Like, for Lance in GSC, I get it, because it was Gen I and they just had to make it work under the circumstances presented to them. But Hydreigon was new and they had the chance to go back and fix it's level curve and instead, they kept it absurdly high.
psuedo legendaries are strong but its a pain in the ass to grind them especially when u get them very late and most of the time there's always better options which are early and strong like nidoking
I feel like the first couple Pseudo legendaries are more designed to be used by npc’s than actual players. They’re powerful Pokémon that suddenly appear during late game fights. They’re hidden away in obscure or optional late game areas so most players never encounter them prior to the Pokémon league, creating a sense of shock value when Elite four members or Champions send them out.
Pseudos are great competitive Pokemon. They're intended to be a powerhouse to work towards.
You’re not wrong, but the percentage of people that play Pokemon casually vs competitively is pretty stark
And intended to be in-game bosses for the Elite Four, usually
Well if you aren't Goodra,that is.
I think you are overestimating how much gamerfreak designs for competitive players, specially in early gens
If you think these games are designed with competitive play as the main concern you are clowning yourself.
They are designed for the single player experience.
No-one cares about competitive here.
In Scarlet and Violet, starting with Deino is dastardly. Buff his stats. Give him ice fang, bite, Fire fang, and dragonbreath. That’s a killer starter. And it’s the 0 to hero ark that will literally take your entire pre-game playthrough before he reaches his final stage. I like the Deino line
Here before the “erm actually” comments about gible’s availability in platinum vs diamond/pearl
Um* whats up with Brits and ruining their language?
Waiting for that presidential nuzlocke my man
@jiaan100 I dunno, what's up with internet MFs being ass blasted over not getting widely used memes?
@@christiancinnabars1402 memes become reality and erm is a regarded spelling
@@jiaan100 mfw language evolves over time as it's always done.
The point of Pseudo Legendries, based on their design, is cool and strong Pokemon. Yes, it's a pain to obtain and train, but so is catching/breeding shiny Pokemon. And boy, do people love doing that.
I think the main reason for Pseudo Legendaries is that a fully grinded Pseudo legendary is built to dominate professional Pokemon battles that ban Legendaries. But they are not good for speedruns yeah.
Why are the only two aspects of the game you're considering are things that are done by a wildly small minority of the people that buy the games. Most people are kids and casuals that just play through the game normally and never participate in an official Pokemon tournament and never decide to start a timer and play the game as fast as possible. This video is just going over what a regular person is going to want to do while playing the game
@@Weatherman4Eva They know what the video is for. They're just positing a reason that pseudos are typically designed the way they are. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.
Well, for example, it's true that platinum glitchless speedruns _do not_ catch Gibble. That's not really a fair expectation though, since they only catch Starly and Bidoof for HM, then proceed to steamroll the rest of the game with their starter...
It's cool if it's just not that deep, but if minimizing grinding = speedrunning in your mind then that deserves some reflection, since it's just not true. Your time has inherent value, to you and to others, and it's worth conserving that time so there's more to share.
@@Weatherman4Eva I am not single outing examples, but those are the types that basically make the best RUclips videos.
But the real issue hard-core gaming or not is ask yourself this. Is it worth putting excess investment relative to the payoff not being that much better than starters or other common Pokemon?
@@crazyMLC What do you mean? Minimizing grinding is a key factor of speedrunning. The objective of any speedrun is to beat a game or reach a specific goal as fast as possible. Of course a pokemon that requires a high investment to yield good returns will be skipped for something that has much better availability and is reliable for the entire game.
Pisses me off all these npcs get to use pseudos by cheating but we can't. I won't understand peoples defense of Hydreigon or gen 2 Dragonite because of this
One thing you forgot to mention is that you also get Earthquake in the same room as Gible. So it gets its best ground type move minute one. That’s amazing for it
An interesting parallel to this idea would be fire emblem. The idea is that at early on, you get a "jagen", stupid powerful at the start but their power trails off as you progress and your other characters get stronger while the jagen remains stagnant. Near the endgame however, you get an "est", a character that is very weak when you first obtain them, but has insane growth and will become on of your strongest members if you're willing to put in the work.
The problem with this is that jagens often stay strong for far too long to be worth giving up for most of the game, while the experience you put into an est at the end could be equally (and arguably better) used for other characters. Overall, the jagen will be many times better than an est despite the intended purpose.
Comparing FE to pokemon has got to be my favorite past time! Love this :)
Dragonair is basically an est without the payoff😭
Pseuso legendaries have always been weird to me because for being "pseudo" they're actually just stronger or equal to basically every legendary minus the boxart frauds
Yeah, that's the pseudo
They're legendary tier without checking the boxes every other legendary does
(Credit Gang Credit Gang)
I think every legendary should be at least 600 BST
They’re ‘literally’ stronger.
Psuedo-Legendaries have 600BST and non-box art legendaries have 580.
@@moonmoon4537 yeah that's what I meant, because in terms of like actual strength they're sorta all over the place (even if pseudo legendaries still tend to be stronger overall than the "minor" legendaries)
Legendary bird that marks the coming of winter, having unmatched control over Ice that, in some representations, gives it enough power to threaten bringing about the end of the world: 580 bst
Smart af computer: 600 bst
Backstabbing snakes kinda suck actually
I’ve been wondering if this community is just so different they don’t know or if he’s banning comments
Context?@@nanofrost1998
@@nanofrost1998wait what happened
Garchomp was really good in Platinum. Getting it early, it actually put in the work as a Gabite, and was solid throughout the game. Then it evolved, and became super powerful. Perfectly designed pseudo legendary Pokémon.
When I ran through shield, I managed to get a Larvitar raid super early, and since Ttar is one of my all time favorite Pokemon, I grabbed that bad boy up, and used him the whole game. Pupitar in Gen 8 is surprisingly not dogshit, with access to STAB Earthquake and an okayish 85 attack for midgame. Final fight came down to Dynamax Ttar vs. G-max Charizard where I oneshot the Charizard through a resist berry. It was truly glorious, and I was glad to live the Zero to Hero with my boy after all these years.
I love using Metagross in the gen 7 games. They work really well for the level curve and they feel both powerful and balanced for the game.
What I think the need to change for pseudos to function better in a playthrough is that their evoultion levels need to be lowered, so you can use them.
The First stage should evolve at level 24-28 then the second stange should evolve at Level 44-48, None of this lv50+ or lv60 evolution requirement, why is that a thing?
The lower level requirements allow the first stage to be placed around Badge 3 or 4. Then as the second stage starts to fall off it evolves into the final stage.
This change would help Dragonite and others if they evolved earlier so they can contriube. Allowing people enjoy that zero to hero feeling. Someone should mod into a game.
5:03 In Crystal, level 40 Larvitar can be bought from the Celadon Game corner for 8888 coins. Mind you it's still late, but if you beeline for it in Kanto you can pretty reasonably evolve it to Tyranitar before Red and it basically solos him even when first evolved. Plus, you can use it in the Battle Tower (if you care about the post game)
2:49 exactly how am I going to just pick up Gengar and Alakazam without trade? Pseudo legendaries is the Answer for all those who can't trade
Thank you for acknowledging Metagross, and please give us a tiny chance to find Beldum in Granite Cave or Meteor Falls in your upcoming Emerald Legacy romhack so it can finally have an actual chance to shine in its debut region. I honestly feel that it’s better than Salamence since it has less weaknesses, can take hits better, and evolves early enough to be of use, but it doesn’t get to show that off because you only get Beldum as a gift from Steven in the postgame!
if he does that he should also change the catch rate, 3 is way too low
Something I notice that's kind of odd with the newer games is that while their own pseudos are only available late game, they have older psuedos that essentially function like gen 4 Garchomp. In Sun and Moon you can catch Bagon on the first island and you can get a Metang in the mid twenties, in SWSH Isle of Armor you can get a Jangmo-o around level 20
Best pseudo is using any psychic type in Gen 1 😮
I caught a Gible after the Snowpoint Gym. I used Gabite throughout the whole Team Galactic arc, and I actually EV trained for the first time in my life, a Garchomp for Attack and Speed. I have to point out that, I took the time to train my pokemon only twice - once before gym 1 and once before gym 8, both times to match the levels to the gym. It's hard to understate how much value Garchomp provided for the rest of the game. Garchomp hard carried so many fights I was genuinely impressed. A level 52 Garchomp standing it's ground against the whole team of Cynthia..... nothing short of a legend. I felt like I earned that win, more than ever. Thank you Garchomp, you magnificent bastard.
When ORAS first came out, you could get a Beldum via mystery gift.
And a shiny one! To add on that 😄
I really wish that game freak will create a pseudo legendary dragon/fairy type in gen 10, that will be epic and i will surely put that pseudo in my playthrough team
@@AngeliGarEs With a mega stone
Counter point, the Wi-Fi Shiny Beldum holding its Mega Stone released during ORAS's launch fits the Hero arch you want so much. It was on my team through my entire playthrough.
Deino and Dreepy are a really weird cases of designing a pseudo-Legendary because it not evolving until Level 50 basically means that you can never really put it into the early game of a later generation. It's going to be deadweight for the entire game, so you're pretty much forced to include it late every time unless you want to saddle people with a middling Pokémon for the majority of the title and the early parts of the post-game.
they still put Dreepy in a relatively early area in SV, lol. they don't care.
it's there to look cute that's useful enough
Funny Route 3 Rufflet in Alola who evolves at *54*
The only pseudos I've used in playthroughs are Kommo-o, Hisuian Goodra and Baxcalibur. Also fug you, I love my ugly Godzilla.
So, you are saying that Dratini is Pokemon's Est
As a Fire Emblem fan... Yeah, it is
Most pseudos are ests. Best example is Tyranitar in GSC. You need to beat all 16 gyms to catch Larvitar who is horribly weak for that point in the game, but if you train it up to level 55 it dominates the final fight against red.
Magikarp exists and fits the idea for the Est archetype far better.
It's more appropriate to say that most Pseudos fit the more practical definition of an Est character: An underleveled, underpowered unit who joins too late to contribute right away and needs to be trained with a decent amount of favoritism to eventually turn out pretty awesome but how valuable that actually is not consistent.
@@cartooncritic7045Magikarp moreso fits the villager archetype. Ests must come late game, but you get villagers near the start of the game.
Big difference is that Magikarp is actually worth the training arc unlike most villagers
Est Dratini and Jagen Butterfree both valid
The only games I can think of where it’s worth using a psuedo is HGSS since you can get Larvitar in the Safari Zone and have pretty much all of Kanto to use a Tyranitar. Then there’s Platinum because of how much exp you get you can get a Garchomp pretty easily.
I have to say, Garchomp is also awesome in XY. You can get a Gible right before the fourth gym, and evolve it just before the gym as well. It’s good but not super OP as a Gabite, but the reward feels so good with Garchomp. It’s also the only place in the game you can catch one. It obliterated the E4, too. I guess more time with Gible would have been nice, but either way super well designed. I named mine the “Godfather,” and is probably my favorite team member of all time. Whenever I had to let another team member faint to bring him, I said they were “doing a favor for him.”
Credit gang
Hisuian Goodra is honestly my favorite psuedo. I managed to trick my way over to its location without the Surf equivalent before fighting the second Noble. Goomy was valuable for a while and getting it to evolve was easy. Great type combo, great design, great moves... easily my favorite.
Hydreigon is designed to be catched in the postgame. I think game freak in the early years wanted sudo legendarys to be the last one you evolve for the pokedex and have no use in the main game actually. They should be that super strong pokemon you find super hard (1% chance in victory road deino or the super rod catch in the safari zone of dratini) so you can bully your friends with it or at least say omg you never have THIS super strong dragon/supercomputer (yeah this one is a gift and everyone prop had it) here! Garchomp and Kommo-o are the exceptions, and all the other ones follow that design choice. I mean dreepy learns NO moves to level fifty!
His points make sense, but I think he is forgetting one thing. I dobt many children (the target audience) plays the game following "the level curve". As a child, I would spend hours grinding wild pokemon, rematching trainers and battling and losing to the elite four. My pokemon would be way overleveled and I would easily be able to get the pseudos fully evolved.
5:17 you can get a Larvitar from the Celadon Game Corner at Lv40 in Crystal Version which by that point in the game, getting it to Tyranitar won't take that long and you still have several gym leaders and Red left to battle
It's still a massive time eater since you need to get all the coins to afford it in the first place, still need to grind it up and due to the lack of ev it won't even be that good.
It's a way to play the game, but much less effective than to just try and finish regularly at this point.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 are you doing a speed run of the game or a casual playthrough?
@@KSmanderes it doesn't matter, when you have two options and one finishes the game in an hour and the other takes 3 hours, you don't need to be a speedrunner to realize the second option is the worst.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 it does make a difference.
If you're trying to beat the game in a short time, I can understand. But if you're taking your time with the game anyway, it's not as big of a time commitment overall. And I say that as someone who put 200+ hrs into my first playthrough of Crystal Version as a kid from just taking my time exploring and trying to complete to Pokedex as well as the game. 1 hour was kinda trivial in the grand scheme of things.
Even if you put nowhere near as many hours into a given playthrough, grinding is a big part of RPGs. And in a generation of Pokemon where most wild pokemon are under-leveled for the trainers you battle in their area, grind is inevitable in some form.
Plus, if you count beating Red as the endgame, you're probably gonna spend at least an hour grinding your level ~50-60 team up to best him anyway. Even if you catch a lv 50+ pokemon in Mt. Silver, you're gonna have to grind it at least a little bit to help with red.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 The Kanto section of the game was clearly designed to be played at a slow pace. It was not designed to be a speedrun from Lance to Red. Trade in a Mt. Silver Larvitar to a new game after defeating Bugsy if not having one in the early game is that big of a deal.
"Thank you guys for coming to my Pat talk" Fixed it
I love this channel, found Pat through zombies back in the day and he is doing crazy things in the Pokémon community. Makes the complicated stat/strategy parts of Pokémon so palatable, big love Pat
Heck yeah bro :)
I actually love the old pseudo model. They’re supposed to be the biggest and baddest, not something to crush a playthrough with. And I think the grind for them is even more endearing
You missed a detail about Baxcalibur. In SV, if the _Caught Level_ is higher than your _Gym Badge Obedience Level,_ then it won’t obey you even as a wild catch. So yes you can get the high level Arctibax, but it doesn’t obey for a few Gyms.
What is the lowest level you can catch Frigibax for obedience, and how rewarding is the Zero to Hero arc?
It is not a problem. We can always breed them.
@@NiseGen-13So your solution to a pokemon having very bad availability, requiring quite a lot of investment that takes away resources from other easier to use pokemon and might not even obey you right away... is getting a lv 1 version of the pokemon, which requires monumentally more investment than the thing you just caught as an egg machine.
@@darkfiredragon3410 In response to the original post regarding the Zero to Hero Arc, yes. Starting at level 1 is a good place to start.
If you are referring speed runs, then I could say you have reading comprehension problem.
@@NiseGen-13 I'm literally just talking about regular, casual playthroughs - the exact same scenario the video and OP were talking about btw - where most people either can't or don't bother breeding stuff from another save, and thus have to deal with the full brunt of the availability and investment problem pseudos have.
Even if someone can and does bother sending over eggs from another save, that first save also had to face this problem so we got back to square one: most pseudos not being the effort, and in Arctibax's case it might not even obey you when you first get reasonable access to it.
In this scenario, breeding is only a means to avoid in future runs the hassle of having to get to the point where you can even find the damn pokemon in the first place, and does nothing to solve the core issue.
You accuse me of having reading comprehension issues, yet you brought up speedruns when nobody was talking about them.
@@darkfiredragon3410 You have reading comprehension.
Additionally, what are you talking about? Eggs? Saves? Cannot Breed? This is Pokemon Scarlet and Violet where you can literally go anywhere, breed anywhere, and farm exp anywhere.
You catch two Arctibax, breed them, and level up them by defeating Chanseys.
Base on how you describe your casual playthrough in SV, clearly you are not playing it like a casual player.
Runs? Core issue? Evidence that you are not a CASUAL PLAYER. I don't play the game trying to beat it as fast as possible. So no, you are not a CASUAL PLAYER.
You could argue that late-game pseudos like Dragonite and Tyranitar were not intended to be used in single player but to be ace units in multiplayer. Assuming they are actually good in RBY and GSC, they are your reward for continuing to play and grind post-E4.
15:22 It's actually easy. The game is designed with the elite 4 rematch in the lv70s as the end point, not when you fight getchis. Just like you don't consider the 2nd gen finished when you defeat Lance. That's why there are so many high level evolutions.
The problem there is that no one considers those. He even mentions "There is another Alder fight!" and still does not excuse it. No one casually kept the game going beyond the Getthis fight. That was the end. I recall numerous kids restarting their games after that fight. Ignoring EVERYTHING else , unless they had someone who was willing to trade Bidoof for one of those later generation encounters, strictly for those early fights. And then they all restart when good trading off back and forth. That was it.
@@nightdrivenen7909 Except ignoring a whole 1/3 of the game is on you. Just like ignoring Kanto while playing 2nd gen. You can certainly end on the league, but then you don't get to complain.
@@flipr52 You still get to complain about the Pseudo not being useable for your ENTIRE game - that is 100% still complain able-end of discussion. Your exception does not make the rule. If people do not get to see fights like N - or Ghetsis with the pokemon available while keeping it a challenge; then they have full rights to complain about that not being fun. Especially when the vast majority of the game's before had post-games of "Go do this for the fun of it. There is no challenge or purpose left so pointless." That is a viable complaint.
The only one that matters is gen 2 where it is a specifically described and designed Sequal. Half the game is Johto - half the game is Kanto. And as he said, once more being available for ONE fight, and the absolute end with all 16 badges: is not fun. You do not get to do ANYTHING with it.
@@nightdrivenen7909 You keep talking about N and Getchis being the end of the game when they are the equivalent of reaching the distorsion world on Platinum. Or Rayquaza stopping the legendaries on Emerald.
It's not an exception. Complaining about the viability of a pokemon when you leave the game halfway is stupid.
I have played the games to completion at least 4 times on each one. I know that N and Ghetsis are THEstory'sy end. Everything after them holds no weight as a story. Complete thePokedexx, fight Aldur, Cynthia, challenge the Battle Train, final two rival battles, do some extra battles against the Riches Family. Collect things. That's all about it. Nothing with ANY form ofstory-basedd meaning behind it. So yes, as thepost-gamee side activities; they are not like Kanto and Johto. There is no real reasoning to do them beyond doing them. No urge - no incentive - no final conclusion. That ended with Ghetsis and N. Ergo -GAME OVER.
Many of the Pseudos have 4x weaknesses. I guess it's to give them an Achilles' heel, but it still hampers their performance. Let's go over them:
- Dragonite: Ice
- Tyranitar: Fighting
- Salamence: Ice
- Garchomp: Ice
- Hydreigon: Fairy (not in its debut Gen though)
- Kommo-o: Fairy
Even though BDSP gives you a “free” Garchomp, considering how hard the Pokémon Leagues are in those games anyway, maybe it’s for the best.
There is still a possible grind arc in Sun/Moon and Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon. In my Ultra Moon playthrough i encountered a Bagon and caught it instead of the tedious SoS chaining, iirc Midir (named after the best dragon boss in gaming) evolved near the end of my playthrough after the garbage Ultra Necrozma fight.
So there is still a zero-to-hero arc if you want it.
Considering how much of a slog SoS chaining was for completeing my dex in Ultra Sun (I tried to get as many trade evos that way) on a post-game character. I would NEVER SoS chain for a super underleveled Salamence to stomp the early game.
Don't diss my boy Baxcalibur like that XD
I’m surprised he’s anyone’s boy.
Bro gets so much hate for that bald head and maybe shiny if someone cares about that.
Baxcalibur is like "wow guys, we made a Godzilla inspired Pseudo Legendary, isn't that cool ?" when Tyranitar exists, looks infinitely better and is more creative with the concept instead of just "Godzilla but its spine is Ice".
@@sephikong8323no. Baxcalibur is way more “Godzilla” than ttar.
@3clisp315 Yes, that was my second point actually, that they JUST remade Godzilla but with a little bit of ice on its spine
The only thing i dont like about this pokemon is its ice type. I think it looks way cooler than goodra
Very sick and creative vid! I see a lot of creators claiming to talk game design, but this is actually accomplishing that. The work into XP math and timing, stages of play, character arcs; i learned a lot!
They are basically mons that you grind up for the novelty rather than during a normal playthrough.
They honestly should have evolved at level 35-40 instead to give them some usage
Then at that point why run other pokemon? Why would they make pokemon as strong as legendaries, that evolve around the same time as your starter. There needs to be some kind of punishment/grind/reward to it.
@@MrdonjuliothewickedThe punishment is the grinding to get a Mon at a level that your base team would probably already clear the game at anyways.
Basically it's not useful at all to get these pokemon or waste your time grinding and even nuzlocking they especially suck being weak in form 2 or over the level cap by the end.
No real uses in a normal playthrough aside that level 5 salamance
@@ivanbluecool you could genuinely just make that argument about any team member lol. Why get another teammate in general if you can already clear the game by those levels?
Surely you don't actually believe the best of pokemon that can evolve, should all just evolve around the same time regular three stage evolutions evolve, just because the game made for literal children is easily beatable by adults regardless.
@@Mrdonjuliothewicked pretty garbage takes there mister "lol" kid.
Let's go down the list of many mons that evolve below 40 and are beasts. Gengar Alakazam garados the starters which includes swampert btw Azumarill Espeon Umbreon silveon Lucario Mons who you can get during your normal playthrough or with a bit of trade and back which even the second forms are still good with Alakazam in gen 1 and 2 with the punch moves. Ones that work better and evolve sooner than dragon types that get worse by the gen especially when fairy come in.
Dratini and co come late and are frankly not even that useful by the end for the time wasted to raise them to max. Your base team would and could clear the elite four and champion with ease at that level.
Again only times you'd even have a chance to use the final evolution of these mons is to search for one or special gift like the shiny beldum but even then move pool is messy.
@@ivanbluecool I'm not reading all that lol.
*Sees #1 ranked pseudo*
THAT'S WHY HE'S THE GOAT!!!! THE **GOOOOAT**!!!!
I used Dragonite during my first play through of FireRed, and man, _it’s a nightmare to grind it to 55_ .
I feel it’s worth mentioning that Beldum can be encountered on Mount Hokulani with a rather generous (for a pseudo anyway) 10% chance, and it will be between level 25-28 in the regular games or level 27-30 in the Ultra games, meaning you can immediately evolve it into Metang, giving you a solid team member until it evolves into Metagross at level 45, which won’t be too hard with the party-wide exp share.
Garchomp and Gardevoir are Pokèmon I will ALWAYS use if they are available.
Gardevoir isnt a pseudo.
@@Mrdonjuliothewicked I know that. But, like Garchomp, who is a pseudo, it is a Pokèmon I will add to my team with zero thoughts if available.
The GarGars :P
I ran with Gardevoir for the first time in a Omega Ruby playthrough recently and loved it. Definitely one of my favorites from Hoenn now.
Gardevoir was always deadweight on my team
I like that pseudos are bad for a playthrough but good for endgame/postgame and competitive. It's one more thing to do near the end of the game that feels rewarding but not required.
God I love tyranitar, but omfg they did my boi so dirty.