@@Aaronkt You read my mind... And I was going to suggest the same, by flipping a Lada over and parking the vehicle on the back wheels lol I have no clue where to go from there, but, Community Think Tank can take it from here... 😁
@@jd7896 it probably has a similar displacement to. Edit: as mentioned at 25:45 this is a Lada 1.5L . Not sure what the Displacement of I4s used for the I6 was, but I assume it's probably a 1.5-1.6L if you know please share. therefore, I can conclude that it the I6 Lada has probably a smaller Displacement than the 2JZ, around 2.25L - 2.40L. I wonder how much power that engine could make with a turbo.
Guys....That pump has an LDA or boost compensator, if you add a turbo, and boost reference line to the LDA, it will automatically add extra fuel in proportion to boost... if you tune the pump right for the correct AFR, that is .. with using the max fuel screw and adjusting the spring pressure in the LDA.. would actually be pretty clever stuff.
I think that would work and produce some big power👍. Also would be nice to see the engine run on diesel and gasoline at once, just hook the single injector back up and put some diesel in the tank
@@veoverse4286 I'd be curious if it would run on atomized diesel or kero , ignited like a petrol engine with a spark... atomized diesel burns good in open air so.. Could work?
6,5k rpm and his hand that close to a flapping double cam chain. That’s pure bravery!! I used to be a car mechanic but doing trucks and busses for quite some time now, well this is the ultimate combination of these 2 jobs.. Keep it up guys great stuff!!!!
I'd bet that mechanical port injection with that velocity stack would generally run well even without the extra pressure. Also that long intake really helps with low end torque, which is why you're getting so much pep and throttle response. Really cool work guys.
they used the same intake with the DIY electronic fuel injection and it was slower... Diesel engine fuel pumps run at extremely high pressures compared to gas pumps. Higher pressures give much much better atomization and creates a much better fuel mixture
Small correction: That's *_not_* a Velocity Stack. What they have is closer to a Tunnel Ram. A velocity stack is a cone inlet mounted *before* the throttle plate (butterfly), but most importantly, at the opening of the cone is an airfoil shape. It's that airfoil that causes air to actually _accelerate_ into the opening and down the throat of the cone; hence "velocity". Almost like ram-air -- on an airplane, not the cold-air mounted on the hood that we called ram air in the muscle era -- but at a standstill, since it does with without the use of a headwind. _BONUS FACT: Cooling towers, those big ""smoke stacks"" of a nuclear power plant (used on any steam power facility, coal before nuclear), is actually an upside-down Velocity Stack. The whole cooling tower is not sitting flush against the ground, but is raised up. As the hot air rises, it draws in cool air through the bottom, then rushes up and out the smaller top opening._ Aside from that, you're totally correct on everything else!
Back in the 80’s in Brazil they used to convert the old chevrolet inline 6 261 engines from the old petrol chevrolet trucks to diesel. The conversion was made using the cylinder head from the Mercedes diesel OM 321. They used to use an adaptor plate to be able to bolt the cylinder head from the mercedes into the chevrolet block, then I’m not sure about the injector pump but it’s not hard to gear it onto the crank pulleys or using the distributor shaft as a source of 1/2 crank rotation speed. I believe they would adapt the diesel pistons onto the chevrolet rods, never got details about this conversion but spoke to people who done it themselves (My father). The engine would work quite good but wouldn’t last long because of the lack of support for the crankshaft (5 main bearings only).
the misto quente was horrible, it didn't run like a real diesel engine and the consume of diesel was almost equivalent to the gas engine... and as you said, the engine wouldn't last not just because of 5 bearings, but due to the lack of resistance of material of piston rods, bearings, etc. a diesel engine requires a highly resistant engine due to the high compression from diesel.
Yep, they took the 4.5 I6, "canavieiro", and stuck a Mercedez head and rods, didn't work so well, but it works any way, they rather make a Detroit Diesel swap.
General Motors did something similar with the standard 350 V8 block. Converted it to a diesel. It wasn’t very good, but it did get decent mileage. They also did this with a 4.3L V6 but they used a heavier block. Those blocks were used in race cars converted back to gas because they would withstand the higher compression 😂
@@weaponizedautism6199 they do this with the nissan rd28 and convert it to gas still today. Stronger blocks on diesels like you say. They use it as a stroker block too compare to the nissan rb26 found in the gtr's
The two stroke oil should work wonders. My concern was first how the pump wouldn't get lube but the oil should do a better job than our modern diesel fuel which doesn't do pumps any good at all.
Some people actually put 2-stroke oil into their diesel fuel when they fill up for that precise reason, modern ULSD fuels are not that great for older pumps and valvetrains, as the sulphur in the older fuel was acting as a lubricant, once that's gone entirely, older diesel engines will need to use additives to not blow up...
@@twocvbloke I do with my 12v. When I had my VE pump I still did. I put break in oil and two stroke oil in my diesel when priming and breaking in my p7100
@@midlifeparty Seems that way. I think I'll have to do the 2-stroke oil diesel treatment for my old Triton. Don't want her mechanical injector pump to start leaking and wear out until the engine hits near 1 million kilometers.
it's like a mechanical injection system that was used on some race cars some decades ago. the fuel delivery depends just on the revs. it's like a bosch system from 1955
both volvo and mercedes also used mechanical injection as late as the 70s early 80s i believe, it gave the volvo's more power than carbied or efi then but was less echonomical
@@Stale_Mahoney the Kugelfischer injection from the 60's used rpm, throttle,pressure, temperature to control injection, all done mechanically with shaped cams
@@fuzzy1dk good to see someone mention the ol' Kugel here ! they used rpm and throttle position, or for the turbo version throttle positiona nd boost press. whats funny about these is that if you "unroll" the cam shape about its axis, you got yourself a 3d fuel map just like on a Alpha-n strategy on a modern ECU.
Top fuel and top alcohol drag cars are still using the same basic idea. Not sophisticated but still the best way to dump huge amounts of fuel into the chsmbers
you've managed to recreate the latest Petrol fuel systems! thats cool! Newer engines nowadays have somekind of high pressure pump just like a diesel, to up the pressure a lot in the fuel rail. ive seen pressures above 150bar already. This is to atomize the fuel better, so the air really mixes with the petrol. gives a cleaner, more efficient and powerful burn. just maybe you've started a retrofit trend! nice
except the new petrol fuel systems inject in the cylinder, with much more timing variation and complex duration control afforded by common rail computer controlled injection. I agree, though, for a hobbyist, this makes soooooo much more sense than going to a complete standalone ecu. You could mount one of these to your gasoline crate engine and it nearly run itself like a diesel, for what it's worth.
Early injected gas Mercedes engines like the gullwing had this setup essentially. Gullwings were direct injection but the later 220se and similar cars were port injection but still using a timed high pressure Bosch injection pump.
@@Dave5843-d9m That sounds WILDDDDD, you think they could get the geometry and weld 3 con rod tops to one conrod bottom and the crank? Do that with each set of pistons perhaps It would be like just the top half of a 3 bank radial lmao
this was exactly how 80s mercedes fuel injection on their 6 and 8 cylinder usdm cars worked, they used a sort of "scale" as a throttlebody, mounted on the top of the pump. The farther down that plunger moved due to vaccum, the longer duration the mechanical injectors would spray. Very simple physics in hindsight, as our boy Vlad here showed us he got a hand for doing literally with his fingers!!!
yeah it's basically same as boschs system on a mercedes, high pressure included. which makes me think.. did.. did bosch do just exactly this in the 50's?
Yep, they did, GM also did with another name, the only problem was that require maintenance that ppl by that time didn't have the knowledge or thought it was too expensive to do, so they promptly replace it with a carb, years later Bosch made a monopoint electronic injector, which was simpler and easier to fix, the rest is history.
I mean the diesel combusts when there is enough compression so the timing will always be advanced and there for backfiring and working against the pistons. If you can utilize sparkplug holes like making a tube that connects the injector it could be perfectly tunable besides the valve timings. Of course it will never be perfect, but still straight injection. As that engine stands now, pump timing really wont matter, because it is the intake air that desides when the fuel goes in.
On the old gasoline MFI systems in 60’s Mercedes they actually have a small oil line from the crankcase that delivers a very small amount of oil to the pistons within the MFI pump. It is subsequently burned in the engine. This was one of the reasons MFI for gasoline never took off after the emissions regulations of the 70’s kicked in.
It would be interesting to run it with a wideband sensor to see if it's going rich and lean at different RPMs and loads. I mean really it has to be if the injection pump throttle is not being changed.
Thats not a throttle as such. Its an enrichment device. It decides how much fuel you get per revolution so presuming the car needs a certain % of fuel at a given rpm and that doesn't change (it wouldn't on a petrol since stoic is always the same) then if its right at one rpm it will be right all the way up - or very, very close depending on how the thermal efficeincy changes based on air speed and volume.
I think it's all about the speed and timing. By getting the correct amount of fuel into the cylinder almost instantly after the compression stroke, the fuel has more time to mix with oxygen in the down stroke it creates a vacuum and force mixes the oxidizer and fuel even more thoroughly it's like a secondary atomizer similar to experiments when water boils at room temperature under a vacuum the gasoline is locked in place and evaporating.
@@SF-dy6hn The mixture control on the pump controls the cam timing which opens the valves to the injectors inside the pump. A longer opening angle on the cam means the injector will be open for longer, and more fuel per stroke, hence a richer mixture.
This is the sort of thing I’ve always wanted to do to see if it worked in theory. Garage54 does all the amazing stuff my mind conjures up. This shows high pressure port injection works. No need for complicated direct injection! Direct injection pressure, emissions cleanliness, and efficiency without expensive annoyingly complex fuel injectors that break. Pay attention car manufacturers, you guys over complicate everything! Garage 54 is on to something! Amazing work again.
mercedes did this in the 80s before they decided to go to common rail efi like the rest of the world, they already milked this idea for its worth. Sorry to ruin your idea, the germans had it a long time ago
Make a project car, where you take the best experiments and put them all together in one car. This experiment should be one of the things you add to it.
It really isn't any different from normal port fuel injection, just using a mechanical pump and valves instead of their modern electronic counterparts. Modern high-efficiency gasoline engines use high-pressure direct injection too.
As a former LADA owner and professional engineer.. I’m pretty intrigued by this channel.. Had an old LADA for 7 years I kept running while I was a poor student.. But I can’t decide wether this is a LADA tune shop, or a LADA torture chamber😀
Perhaps try upgrading it with tensioner, better pump mount, and try tuning it with an AFR probe to modulate the pump and throttle body optimally together (with the gas pedal cable, as it's likely running nicely because the fuel get's sprayed super fine, which likely mitigates a bit the effects of it running really rich or lean - as a matter of fact new gasoline turbo engines with direct injection use this high pressure injection effect exactly for the same reason). Great experiment, the engine doesn't sound at all like a lada. Almost like a smooth R4 bmw engine.
It's all about the mixture of the air and fuel and fuel into the incoming air charge into the intake valve. That's why they used multi port fuel injection for so long here in the states. It was basically the best of both worlds of diesel and gasoline engines combined. But the fact remains that the atomization of the air fuel mixture with the high pressure pump and injectors makes the gasoline almost like dust before it even hits the backside of the intake valve. The reason why a suction style roots supercharger makes so much more power than a blow through system does. Otherwise Top fuel dragsters would be running a blow through system. With methanol especially when the mixture is so rich that it's almost hydrolocking the cylinders with the amounts of liquid fuel being injected the roots style superchargers take the air and fuel and helps to atomize the fuel even more so than just the injection system can supply. This is how these engines can run on such crazy amounts of fuel! Without a supercharger to increase the air flow and to basically be a mixer to atomize the fuel even more during the rotation process that it can stuff more air and fuel into those cylinders than they would never see in a naturally aspirated format. If you can atomize gasoline to the point of almost vaporizing it your fuel economy is almost doubled. Chrysler Corp found all this BS out back in the 1960s while doing R&D on their engines and found that they could increase fuel efficiency by increasing the incoming fuel temperature which aided in the faster atomization of the gasoline molecules. This will then produce more BTUs in the burn 🔥 rate efficiency of the gasoline which normally leaves the cylinder only half burned off most times, which is why they use a catalytic converter with air injection to provide the burning off of the rest of the hydrocarbons which leaves the engine unburned. The fact is the faster the engine is turning, the less time it has to try and extract as much BTUs of energy from the fuel. This is why you see the flames coming out of the headers of a dragster engine even at idle, the mixture isn't being broken up good enough so raw unburned fuel is able to escape, then is burned outside the engine in the exhaust pipes. The theory is that if the engine gets to the point where it is able to mix and burn the mixture effectively enough to make power and lots of it. The downside is of course that a ton of unburned fuel is wasted because it's being ejected before its even halfway done burning. Methanol burns extremely cool and this is why so much is needed to convert it into usable BTUs of power. But unlike gasoline, because it runs so cool and likes to cool down the intake temperatures as well through evaporation the engines are capable of making much higher boost levels without the serious problems with gasoline and preignition or detonation occurring. Bottom line is the more you can atomize their gasoline the more efficient it becomes and you don't need to rely so heavily on the ignition system to light it and keep it light throughout the stroke. If you have a perfectly filled cylinder with the perfect 14.7:1 air to fuel ratio Top to bottom and side to side, in theory you'll achieve a full burn and extract the most naturally occurring BTUs from your cylinders capacity. This is why heads and camshafts are the heart of almost any 4 stroke engine and their efficiency is determined by how easily the engine can pump air which is not much different than if it were pumping a fluid. Everything comes down to the same thing efficiency in every aspect of the principle of thermal and fluid dynamics. The more you can get in the more you can technically get out when everything is working in sync.
Fit an automatic Oiling system for the fuel to it, so you dont have to mix Oil into the Gas seperatly and fit a trumpet onto the Trottlebody so the air can be sucked in way faster
Fuel injected engines use fuel trim levels based off the O2 sensors to determine how long to keep the fuel injectors open. There is a return line from the fuel rail back to the fuel tank to send any excess fuel (pressure). Increasing the pressure in the fuel rail may have some differing effects on how the fuel is atomized (read: dispersed) in the air/fuel mixture, but as long as those effects are not too pronounced and the fuel system is capable of handling the increased pressure (not bursting) then the O2 sensors and computer (within reason) should be able to adjust the amount of time the fuel injectors stay open to optimize the stochastic air/fuel mixture. This will allow the engine to continue to run at near optimal ranges.
Since no one has mentioned this, I will enlighten everyone. Diesels have no throttle plate, as a gasoline engine does. Diesel engine speed and power output are determined solely by the volume of fuel delivered by the injection pump. A gasoline engine's speed is regulated by airflow, making the throttle plate a key part. Essentially what has been done here is creating two throttle linkages, one for fuel volume, the other for air flow. Hence, they must be synchronized, much like a multi carburetor setup.
Awesome! At diesel fuel pressures, (1800 to 2000 psi), the gas is instantly turned to a fog that mixes perfectly with all the air it can get. Put the electric turbo on it and hang on.
I'm always so interested in the translation. Is "crapping out" really a Russian phrase too?! Edit: Lol the voice he gave the guy in the street was pretty funny too.
Hey guys in my life.I have never thought about visiting Russia.Or having any reason to. Then I've seen your show and I absolutely love Russia now. I had an idea and a question. Leaf blower supercharger!! Also what does adding two stroke oil to the gas do to a 4 stroke eng? 2 stroke Lada? I love you guys, keep up the good work 👏. P.S. trade me presidents please.
To make a whole thing work properly, just add a starter motor powered supercharger you made a couple of videos ago, with a regulator to regulate an air amount.
A little bit of helpful information, there should be a screw you can adjust on the side of that high pressure diesel pump that will allow you to change the duration length of the fuel pulses for each injector also the golden ratio should be according to the math I've ran between throttle plate and fuel pump should be 3:1 the 3 being the air and the 1 being fuel. So in layman's terms if you crack the throttle all of the way on the intake you should only open the diesel pump throttle by 1/3 of its movement. The stoic mixture for fuel to combust is quite a wide and varied range, the only difference being there's a very small window of hyper efficiency where the fuel is completely burnt or there is no detonation occurring from running to lean or pig rich to wash out the plugs fire. I recommend finding a BMX bicycle brake cable a Teflon coated one to run from the fuel pump to where the throttle body cable is and run them parallel and have them pulled at that 3:1 ratio by using different sized cambered circle guides to regulate pull distance. Not sure if you know this or not but in the early 40s there were a couple cars that experimented from the factory with high pressure mechanical fuel pumps, also in most race applications with cars that run on methanol they have a mechanical high pressure fuel pump that is very similar to a diesel mechanical high pressure fuel pump.
I've recently swapped my 12v from a VE pump to a P7100. I wish it was this simple lol. I clicked this video very fast because I'm interested on how it will work out. Love this channel
I'm certain the atomization of the fuel from the port injection and diesel injectors is much better than a stock carbureted lada engine, letting the engine make more power and be more efficient
Dial it in with a wide band and a controlled IAC for good AFR's ! Do a mileage test . We have a 40 plus mpg v8 guy in America running a lawn mower carb!
@@florin26balalau very true. I know the engine was used worldwide, but I'm not sure how easy they would be to come across outside of the North and South American continents. I honestly don't think these guys would even care to look for one. If I had the skill and abilities they use, as long as I had parts of an engine to start with, it wouldn't matter if it was just a box of random mixed parts, there would be a running engine at the end. 🙂
Now you can place a Turbo on the engine and adjust the fuel with the Diesel pump. This system is like the first mechanical injection. Good job my friend !!!!!
`remember , a diesel engine has no throttle plate , the intake is always open in a diesel manifold , and the engine speed is controlled by the pump . The pump delivers the diesel directly to the cylinder at the very last minute as diesel combusts under pressure and not by spark , therefore the diesel cannot be introduced at say 30 deg btdc like in a petrol engine since it will prematurely combust or not comb at all so the diesel is sprayed at the very last point btdc and has to be at higher pressure than tat of inside the cylinder at that time wich is extremely high for diesel engines , so , the setup on your lada now works fine yes , but the mixture will never be correct . I bet you it over enriching it allot. Im glad you guys did this coz its something i have been wondering over for years and never had the chance to try . i knew it would work though... The concept was used in many cars. Its called mechanical fuel injection. Vw Golf Gti mk1 = Kjetronic injection . Ford also had a mechanical injection. audi 5 cyl... im just curious to know how long the pump will last having petrol through it ....
I love your channel! You guys are nuts with all of your experiments! I have an idea for you. How about taking an unfortunate Lada 4 cylinder, using stock size pistons, overbore each cylinder 0.010", 0.020", 0.030" and 0.040" respectively to see how much piston slap and excess clearance it can handle? Maybe use individual header pipes to see how much each cylinder behaves with blow-by and how much compression loss occurs? Either use stock size rings or oversized rings in the respective cylinders but each with a stock size piston. Give it a try! Thanks and I look forward to seeing the results! The last thing any engine wants to hear is, "Hey there fellows! Today we are going to abuse this here Lada four banger!" Greetings from an American fan. I am living and working in Saudi Arabia as an aircraft maintenance technician.
I'm not surprised this works fine. Mechanical multipoint fuel injection has been the method for supplying fuel to airplane engines for very long. Simple, reliable, and powerful.
The Injection pumps I work on automatically trim the fuel based on engine speed using a governor. When you adjust the lever on the injection pump, you are telling the governor how fast the engine should be spinning and it increases/decreases fuel to hold that speed.
Vlad it gets better - that pump has a boost enrichment compensator built in. It you run a turbo or supercharger you only need to feed boost to that compensator and it will fuel up as boost builds. Also the "throttle" on the diesel pump isn't really a throttle - its an enrichment adjuster. The rpm is dictated by engine speed and that lever adjusts how much fuel you get per revolution. You can also adjust that with the screw under the cover but I would say its close to correct the way thats running so maybe leave it alone. The boost compensator is adjustable too - you take off thet "hat" on the top and there is an eccentric plunger - turn it to allow more or less fuel depending on boost level. A lot of the Japanese pumps are restricted too - usually with a white nylon washer on the top of the enrichment plunger. You can have a lot of fun with these.
This works much better than my old Hilborn racing system. They use constant flow injectors but vary pressure (much lower than this) with rpm and throttle opening. It's almost impossible to run on the street due to poor mixture control. I was TOTALY surprised to see it run this good!! I expected a lot of swearing just to get it to start and then even more when trying to drive it! When you are opening the throttle blade, you are leaning it out. (All racing MFI systems have a "barrel" valve hooked to the throttle to control mixture with throttle position.) When you open the Diesel throttle, you SHOULD be flooding it. I have built a lot of multi carb race motors, and boy, you can spend a lot of time messing with jets, etc especially daily driving it. Even going from your warm shop to the cold outside would make a big difference to a carburetor. That's why racers, especially with MFI setups, carry thermometers, barometers, and humidity gauges to calculate air density to jet properly day to day or day to night, its that finiky especially on gasoline. Alchohol is much more forgiving. But not this setup! It just EATS! it has to be that the fuel is vaporized rather than atomized. You could connect a simple choke cable to the Diesel pump to play with leaning it out while cruising just to see your mpg. A vacuum advance from a distributor hooked up to the Diesel throttle with a spring with different holes to hook it in and limiter screws to change fuel rate would make it more responsive Resist the idea of using an AFR sensor to tune it. But one to monitor it would be fine to record what IT wants. I bet you will find that sucker is running fine all over the place on AFR due to the vaporized fuel. I know from racing and dynoing engines that some like it lean, and some liked to smoke a little for max performance and not to be tuned to someone's perfect AFR numbers. Im intrigued! Also, mount the pump to the engine, or you will fracture the high pressure lines eventually. Switch to a cog belt drive. You will probably find that the Diesel pump has its own internal governor that will shut down your fuel at a certain RPM. The biggest thing is to not lean it out so much that you hole a piston under load. Most Diesel injection pumps DO NOT change pressure to the nozzles with throttle changes, they change how long injection lasts and they advance or retard the timing also. Some Cummins engines with the PT (pressure/time) system did vary pressure as well. Good luck! Great show!
Since the pump setting never changes, the air/fuel ratio depends on the throttle position. So be careful, the more you open the throttle, the leaner it gets.
the pump goes up on revs with the engine(and does more revs, pumps more gas injection cycles). the problem is more of the opposite, that driving part throttle at high revs gets you same fuel as full throttle (provided that the full throttle behavior is okay).
The higher the revs the more line pressure. The lower the revs the less pressure. And with what we see in the video being the engine able to rev up top and still have the power to pull is a sign of enough (or more than that) fuel to create the power and is not going that lean (too lean and you start bogging down...not enough fuel to make good enough combustion)
True, it is running well and revs up and makes good power, so perhaps it’s not as bad as I thought. But at a minimum, the mixture is uncontrolled. Would be interesting to see the readings in real time.
@@facusan2339 they'd need to devise some more mechanical control like kugelfischer injection had, which is another similar thing to this what they built. without having some more valves or bypass(back to tank) that operate somehow from vacuum, throttle position or such it's basically just a linear this many revs gets you this much fuel regardless of anything else going on. the bypass back to tank might be easier than having a valve before the injector. I'm not sure how the ww2 era airplane injection worked, but there was some.
Now all that is left is to convert a gas Lada engine into a diesel. Put the injectors in the spark plug holes, put a bunch of weld into the combustion chambers to up the compression, and go!
I'm pretty sure you're gaining more power and throttle response because it is atomizing the fuel a lot better than a carburetor would and it's also sending a mixture of fuel in are directly to the cylinder that needs it instead of wherever it wants to go
@@Me-zo8yc Why thank you. Dont know if it would burn out the syncros at all. Might have some impact on them. You could run super hi gearing in it and still have many lower gears to be in almost crawl mode. Dont need overdrive and all the compoohter crap neither
In addition to my comments below, I need to add that you just happened to get the right style of governor in your pump, (limiting speed) . There are two types of governor, limiting speed and variable speed or throttling governor. Variable speed should actually be called constant speed because when you move the control it adjusts the governed rpms not the fuel rate like yours does. So, like for tractors etc that want to hold a constant rpm as set by the operator even when going downhill or pulling hard the constant speed governor varies the fuel rate to hold the rpms at the selected point. If you had a constant speed governor as soon as the rpms came up unless you also moved the pump throttle up it would cut the fuel off. If the rpms dropped below that setting it would flood the engine trying to pick up speed to match the throttle rpm setting as if it was in the Diesel engine. However, limiting speed governors DO vary the fuel rate with load but only at idle (that's why the Lada started so easy, the pump automatically dumps in full fuel until idle speed is reached) or when "floored" at that point they will adjust the fuel rate according to load to hold maximum rpms but nowhere else in between. That's one reason why the old 2 stroke Detroits earned a reputation for being gutless in trucks. Unlike Cat or Cummins that had constant speed governors (think cruise control) For highway use. On road Detroits only had limiting speed governors (stamped with an LS on the tag)and wouldn't automatically react to going up a hill etc unless the pedal was on the floor and they were wound out. In dozers, tractors, scrapers etc they had variable (constant) speed governors (stamped VS) and because of being two stroke they responded quicker to a load than a turbochaged 4 stroke and did so with about 1/2 the cubic inches. So, in short most tractor pumps won't work and some on road pumps either. Hope this helps. I certainly would like to see this refined!
The diesel injector is accustomed to passing #2 fuel oil thru it's passages. Gasoline is much thinner, so you are getting more fuel to the engine at a given setting than you would if it was burning diesel fuel. A diesel fuel injector has a strong spring inside. When the fuel pressure at the injector exceeds the spring pressure in the injector, the injector 'pops." A very simple setup when compared to gasoline fuel injection.
I love how responsive the engine is and how hard you can rev a Lada engine. Did all kinds of shit with my Niva and the engine held on until the body was rusted useless...
I would so set a servo controller on an arm and connect it to the throttle body to open and close the pump accordingly with a large servo, it would even it out even more and the air fuel mix could be tuned perfectly. Atomization with diesel injectors help as well. I am wondering if the pump is also getting a boost since you don't see diesels revving that high.
@@aaronhall7740 I am not sure that pump is being regulated at all, I see a vacuum line that should be attached to regulate the pressure. There may be a lot of variance there.
Thanks guys, and stay weird. 1:19 I suppose you could make a GDI engine this way, if you bought a gasoline that used 2 spark plugs per cylinder. You could make some adapter that got a diesel nozzle in place of one of the spark plugs. I don't think any eastern bloc car was built that way. I think the easiest carb 4 cylinder you could find would be a Nissan Z20s, Z22s, or Z24s. 6:27 Diesel injectors can get very hot. Having extra fuel flow from them and leave cools them off. It's sort of like using the fuel tank as a radiator. 12:49 I love the way diesels work. They just let in as much air as possible, no throttle needed, except for some smog engines. Just injecting a tiny amount of fuel or the full amount is what controls it. I never liked the idea that unless at full throttle, gasoline engines would be pulling some kind of vacuum. I think some BMW valvetronic and Fiat multiair engines were able to eliminate the throttle. 15:21 I did not expect that. Usually diesel pumps are self governed, and diesels tend to have a low redline. I figured you wouldn't get past ~5000 RPM. 18:00 2 stroke oils don't have the kind of additives that would make colored smoke. Zinc, phosphorous, and sulfur are a must for 4 stroke engine oil. 19:22 Carbs can't atomize and vaporize the fuel as effectively as high pressure fuel injectors. They also tend not to distribute fuel all that evenly between cylinders. That is one reason multi port injection engines and GDI engines are more powerful and start more quickly than carb engines. Also, TBI engines aren't that great.
Our burnout cars have a pump similar to this, we run them on methanol and can adjust how much fuel goes into it to run it richer or leaner with a lever
Now it needs a turbo, maybe add the electric turbo too and get a six cylinder pump for the six cylinder engine. Connect the linkage between pump and butterfly. Leave the long intake, it should help with low rpm torque. Great work guys!!
For a moment I thought they were doing a bad conversion to a diesel engine, but I was surprised, and I could see the expression of happiness on your face! Glad it turned out so well, I loved it! Now put the injectors instead of the spark plugs, diesel fuel, increase the compression and you will get a diesel Lada!
@@raven4k998 In my country that is something that was done very often a few years ago, for example in the 6-cylinder engines of the old mustangs (here they were from a national Falcon) increasing the compression and placing injectors (in the place where the spark plugs were) and diesel injection pump for trucks with low displacement engines and tuning it for the new engine.
@@Zeeos27 just be careful of scammers if you have a diesel that try to charge you for replacing your spark plugs on your diesel engine cause that's a scam scammer like to try hoping you'll fall for it and pay for something you don't actually need cause diesels don't have spark plugs
Great shows guys Kudos to the editors and VO Look up a cross ram hemi or 426 cross ram to see the best tourque intake manifold ever made. Notice how intake tubes dip down to exhaust and is 3 feet long. That curve matters a lot for tourque. Tunnel ram manifolds are for RPM and horsepower.? They had a problem from exhaust manifold boiling gas in float bowls and creating vapor lock. Check those old Chyslers. Diesel injectors are under much higher compression pressures. I always thought it squirts variable by electric servo and CPU but at 7k rpm that would be insane valving. So it must use the piston pressure to open. Maybe its a electro mechanical trigger each intake stroke when it senses vacume That would allow the engine to always fire at right time. Then again maybe its just pooling the gas as if your squirting from a bottle. Set that rig up on a bench so we can see it squirt under prssure and SLOW MOTION cam on your phone. Internet came to late for us old timers Anyway just saying Try alcohol with that injector? Also did you ever hear of a reed valve? Or a circular flat valve? Its like a one way flap valve Great shows
I don't quite get how it's working either, but my *guess* would be it's that the _"pump throttle"_ he's adjusting is more akin to a pressure regulator. It's actually the engine RPMs that when increased (throttle opened), is turning the pump faster, generating more *flow* (dumping in more fuel) at that constant pressure... 🤷♂️ It would explain why he didn't really increase the RPMs much after a certain point, because the fuel was being atomized sufficiently already, before the pump was cranked up to "100%" _(to borrow his term, since at the end he mentioned it only being at 85%)_ In reality, this is how the original Fuel Injection systems worked way back in the day (I think the first *car* with one came out in the 1950s; war planes having it before that). It was all mechanical and that's why we later, to differentiate them, dubbed the new system EFI: *electronic* fuel injection.
The way it works you're supposed to leave the throttle body all the way open. Then you use the injector pump to meter the RPMs of the motor. There should be just a wide open throttle at the top. That's the way it works in a diesel. One of the reasons why they don't use this setup on a gasoline engine, is because the fuel needs to be metered differently under a load, then it does when it's just Free Wheeling. It needs to be enriched under a load, and at the same RPM can be leaner while just Freel coasting. But you could make it on the rich side and make the car drivable, by adjusting the diesel pump to rev through the RPM range with the upper throttle body wide open all the time. That's how it works on a diesel, and it should work for the gasoline engine also. Only difference being under a load you can't change the amount of fuel that it gets, while maintaining that same stable RPM. Keeping it on the rich side, you would be able to drive it with just accelerating the diesel pump alone. They're also is a way to adjust how much fuel sprays out of it. To put it in simpler terms, a gasoline engine meters the air and fuel mixture at the same time, for variances in load. A diesel engine meters how much fuel enters the cylinders, and does not meter the air intake, it just gets wide open air intake, and RPM is managed ONLY by the variable fuel output of the diesel pump.
Good afternoon, I think that instead of using a diesel injection pump, they should have installed a Kugelfischer which is more suitable for 4-cylinder gasoline engines, these MPI pumps were used in some models of BMW, Lancia, Ford and other European brands.
Most older diesel engines with injection pumps don't use a throttle butterfly. It is normally a straight pipe. The diesel injection pump adds fuel to rev engine and take fuel away to decrease engine revs
i use 2-stroke oil in my cars occasionally, at about 500:1 ratio... or 1 oz per 4 gallons. it has no problems burning, no smoke and helps lube the injectors & pump. some say this helps get slightly better fuel economy, i haven't seen any significant change.
Some ford escorts in the 80s toyed with mechanical pumps, they worked fairly well but was overly complicated by the time injection was needed for emission and started to faulter with emissions
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
You guys really need to invest in a dyno eventually for testing power levels with your crazy contraptions🤔
Hub Dyno 😎😃
It’s about 17 hp I can tell from here
@@Jon-hm2wu 😂 your welcome
DIY Dyno project ?
@@Aaronkt You read my mind... And I was going to suggest the same, by flipping a Lada over and parking the vehicle on the back wheels lol
I have no clue where to go from there, but, Community Think Tank can take it from here... 😁
most mechanics: it doesn't work... why?
these guys: it works... why?
Also applies to programmers!
Fuckin 💀 🤣
Me too. I'm blown away you can just bolt a diesel pump on a petrol and make it multipoint mechanical fuel injection 🤯
And then there is people who yapping about "It's gonna break, it can't hold!" *Meanwhile these guys*
I love listening to you guys. The translator knows perfect English grammar and has excellent skills, beautiful, thank you!
BMI Russian (who I think runs the channel SwapBlogRU) does a good job with the voiceovers. He makes this content so much more accessible.
Time for some fine tuning
Proceeds to bring a zip tie
That's the finest of tuning, we all know that
1click at a time 🤣
Tactical zip tie
Japan drifters approve
Definitely a guy I could have a beer with.
You should do these mods to your inline 6 lada engine.
That engine kindof reminded me of a 2jz lmao
@@MrThunderCunt because it's an inline six..? Oh man it's an inline six just like the TWO JAY ZEE OOMMMMMGGGGG SUPRA FAST BEST CAR SUTUTUTUTUTUU🎉🎉🎉
@@jd7896 it probably has a similar displacement to.
Edit: as mentioned at 25:45 this is a Lada 1.5L . Not sure what the Displacement of I4s used for the I6 was, but I assume it's probably a 1.5-1.6L if you know please share.
therefore, I can conclude that it the I6 Lada has probably a smaller Displacement than the 2JZ, around 2.25L - 2.40L. I wonder how much power that engine could make with a turbo.
@@jwalster9412 Not a lot because the head on a lada was not designed for a lot of airflow
@@twoeightythreez dremel goes brrr
Guys....That pump has an LDA or boost compensator, if you add a turbo, and boost reference line to the LDA, it will automatically add extra fuel in proportion to boost... if you tune the pump right for the correct AFR, that is .. with using the max fuel screw and adjusting the spring pressure in the LDA.. would actually be pretty clever stuff.
It'd also produce some real good power for an inline 4 lada engine.
I think that would work and produce some big power👍.
Also would be nice to see the engine run on diesel and gasoline at once, just hook the single injector back up and put some diesel in the tank
@@veoverse4286 I'd be curious if it would run on atomized diesel or kero , ignited like a petrol engine with a spark... atomized diesel burns good in open air so.. Could work?
@@austinmaxi diesel burns slowe tho...
@@shecktaGAMING dial in more ignition advance..
"It runs, but I don't know how". This should be the motto of Garage 54!
That's gotta be a good percentage of modern drivers on the rare occasion where they open the hood.
This needs to become a tshirt
instead of "Will it run?" ... "Why does it run?"
6,5k rpm and his hand that close to a flapping double cam chain. That’s pure bravery!! I used to be a car mechanic but doing trucks and busses for quite some time now, well this is the ultimate combination of these 2 jobs.. Keep it up guys great stuff!!!!
Yeppers wouldn't take much for it to pull his hand in if he slipped
This guy has no fear....which means he has enough luck to never get injured.
@@robertwest3093 that and maybe just maybe he is smart enough to plan sufficient safety into his videos as well cause luck always runs out eventually
I'd bet that mechanical port injection with that velocity stack would generally run well even without the extra pressure. Also that long intake really helps with low end torque, which is why you're getting so much pep and throttle response.
Really cool work guys.
Also, I bet that single intake it chocking the engine.
they used the same intake with the DIY electronic fuel injection and it was slower... Diesel engine fuel pumps run at extremely high pressures compared to gas pumps. Higher pressures give much much better atomization and creates a much better fuel mixture
@@dieselgeezer18 finally someone gets it!
They should make the intake longer, like Holley SkyRam long XD
Small correction: That's *_not_* a Velocity Stack.
What they have is closer to a Tunnel Ram.
A velocity stack is a cone inlet mounted *before* the throttle plate (butterfly), but most importantly, at the opening of the cone is an airfoil shape. It's that airfoil that causes air to actually _accelerate_ into the opening and down the throat of the cone; hence "velocity".
Almost like ram-air -- on an airplane, not the cold-air mounted on the hood that we called ram air in the muscle era -- but at a standstill, since it does with without the use of a headwind.
_BONUS FACT: Cooling towers, those big ""smoke stacks"" of a nuclear power plant (used on any steam power facility, coal before nuclear), is actually an upside-down Velocity Stack. The whole cooling tower is not sitting flush against the ground, but is raised up. As the hot air rises, it draws in cool air through the bottom, then rushes up and out the smaller top opening._
Aside from that, you're totally correct on everything else!
Back in the 80’s in Brazil they used to convert the old chevrolet inline 6 261 engines from the old petrol chevrolet trucks to diesel.
The conversion was made using the cylinder head from the Mercedes diesel OM 321. They used to use an adaptor plate to be able to bolt the cylinder head from the mercedes into the chevrolet block, then I’m not sure about the injector pump but it’s not hard to gear it onto the crank pulleys or using the distributor shaft as a source of 1/2 crank rotation speed. I believe they would adapt the diesel pistons onto the chevrolet rods, never got details about this conversion but spoke to people who done it themselves (My father). The engine would work quite good but wouldn’t last long because of the lack of support for the crankshaft (5 main bearings only).
the misto quente was horrible, it didn't run like a real diesel engine and the consume of diesel was almost equivalent to the gas engine... and as you said, the engine wouldn't last not just because of 5 bearings, but due to the lack of resistance of material of piston rods, bearings, etc. a diesel engine requires a highly resistant engine due to the high compression from diesel.
Yep, they took the 4.5 I6, "canavieiro", and stuck a Mercedez head and rods, didn't work so well, but it works any way, they rather make a Detroit Diesel swap.
Rapaz que tanto de brasileiro falando bonito kkkkkk Ainda espalhando pro mundo a história do misto quente...
General Motors did something similar with the standard 350 V8 block. Converted it to a diesel. It wasn’t very good, but it did get decent mileage. They also did this with a 4.3L V6 but they used a heavier block. Those blocks were used in race cars converted back to gas because they would withstand the higher compression 😂
@@weaponizedautism6199 they do this with the nissan rd28 and convert it to gas still today. Stronger blocks on diesels like you say. They use it as a stroker block too compare to the nissan rb26 found in the gtr's
The two stroke oil should work wonders. My concern was first how the pump wouldn't get lube but the oil should do a better job than our modern diesel fuel which doesn't do pumps any good at all.
Some people actually put 2-stroke oil into their diesel fuel when they fill up for that precise reason, modern ULSD fuels are not that great for older pumps and valvetrains, as the sulphur in the older fuel was acting as a lubricant, once that's gone entirely, older diesel engines will need to use additives to not blow up...
@@twocvbloke I do with my 12v. When I had my VE pump I still did. I put break in oil and two stroke oil in my diesel when priming and breaking in my p7100
@@twocvbloke so the low sulfur diesel is good for emission regulations but wear out the diesel pump faster. Cant win.
@@midlifeparty Seems that way. I think I'll have to do the 2-stroke oil diesel treatment for my old Triton. Don't want her mechanical injector pump to start leaking and wear out until the engine hits near 1 million kilometers.
Emission systems can’t handle high sulfur fuel. All bad
There is a built-in governor in the diesel pump, makes sense that it ramps up fueling with the revs.
Yeah I think it would be most interesting if you guys would have your own dyno stand to test all those experiments. Keep up the work!
They have a homemade dyno made from an old treadmill you jog on
@@staceymcdermott4954 lol
Make one from an upside down Lada! ;)
it's like a mechanical injection system that was used on some race cars some decades ago.
the fuel delivery depends just on the revs. it's like a bosch system from 1955
both volvo and mercedes also used mechanical injection as late as the 70s early 80s i believe, it gave the volvo's more power than carbied or efi then but was less echonomical
missing one major thing, the amount of fuel delivered in each pulse is based on manifold vacuum on those old systems
@@Stale_Mahoney the Kugelfischer injection from the 60's used rpm, throttle,pressure, temperature to control injection, all done mechanically with shaped cams
@@fuzzy1dk good to see someone mention the ol' Kugel here !
they used rpm and throttle position, or for the turbo version throttle positiona nd boost press.
whats funny about these is that if you "unroll" the cam shape about its axis, you got yourself a 3d fuel map just like on a Alpha-n strategy on a modern ECU.
Top fuel and top alcohol drag cars are still using the same basic idea. Not sophisticated but still the best way to dump huge amounts of fuel into the chsmbers
you've managed to recreate the latest Petrol fuel systems! thats cool!
Newer engines nowadays have somekind of high pressure pump just like a diesel, to up the pressure a lot in the fuel rail. ive seen pressures above 150bar already. This is to atomize the fuel better, so the air really mixes with the petrol. gives a cleaner, more efficient and powerful burn.
just maybe you've started a retrofit trend! nice
except the new petrol fuel systems inject in the cylinder, with much more timing variation and complex duration control afforded by common rail computer controlled injection. I agree, though, for a hobbyist, this makes soooooo much more sense than going to a complete standalone ecu. You could mount one of these to your gasoline crate engine and it nearly run itself like a diesel, for what it's worth.
Brilliant video guys I wonder how it would drive with a turbo from a diesel
i was just thinking the same thing same set-up but just add a turbo lol
Makes me wonder how much power this engine makes before it comes apart though.
You'd need to add a booster valve for extra fuel or else things would melt quick I'd say haha
@@aaronhall7740 it has that built into the pump already.. that ufo looking bit on the top of the pump adds more fuel when on boost..
@@johnathanmcdoe atleast 50% more that stock, unless these engines han handle more tourqe than is there from factory.
You should totally kit this out and take it to a track, be interesting to see how well it drives there.
They should try building an actual racing lada and make a series out of it! Imagine a fuel injected 2L forced induction Lada!
Early injected gas Mercedes engines like the gullwing had this setup essentially. Gullwings were direct injection but the later 220se and similar cars were port injection but still using a timed high pressure Bosch injection pump.
sugestion: try and make an opposed piston engine with two lada blocks head to head...
With the diesel injection pump!
@@NN1Ckl. How about three blocks and make it a Deltic. :-)
@@Dave5843-d9m that's a bit harder... lol
@@Dave5843-d9m That sounds WILDDDDD, you think they could get the geometry and weld 3 con rod tops to one conrod bottom and the crank? Do that with each set of pistons perhaps
It would be like just the top half of a 3 bank radial lmao
Up!
this was exactly how 80s mercedes fuel injection on their 6 and 8 cylinder usdm cars worked, they used a sort of "scale" as a throttlebody, mounted on the top of the pump. The farther down that plunger moved due to vaccum, the longer duration the mechanical injectors would spray. Very simple physics in hindsight, as our boy Vlad here showed us he got a hand for doing literally with his fingers!!!
So they basically made a mechanically injected lada, sweet😍🙌🏼 (it’s ready for a turbo😈😆)
yeah it's basically same as boschs system on a mercedes, high pressure included.
which makes me think.. did.. did bosch do just exactly this in the 50's?
@@lasskinn474 my 79 450SL had that exact Bosch J-series mechanical injection
Yep, they did, GM also did with another name, the only problem was that require maintenance that ppl by that time didn't have the knowledge or thought it was too expensive to do, so they promptly replace it with a carb, years later Bosch made a monopoint electronic injector, which was simpler and easier to fix, the rest is history.
I was just thinking they basicly just build the bosch CIS Jet tronics used on a lot of European cars in the late 80s and early 90s
I mean the diesel combusts when there is enough compression so the timing will always be advanced and there for backfiring and working against the pistons.
If you can utilize sparkplug holes like making a tube that connects the injector it could be perfectly tunable besides the valve timings.
Of course it will never be perfect, but still straight injection.
As that engine stands now, pump timing really wont matter, because it is the intake air that desides when the fuel goes in.
Maybe with a vacuum solenoid connected behind the throttle body you can control the injection pump to get close to the right fuel air ratio
On the old gasoline MFI systems in 60’s Mercedes they actually have a small oil line from the crankcase that delivers a very small amount of oil to the pistons within the MFI pump. It is subsequently burned in the engine. This was one of the reasons MFI for gasoline never took off after the emissions regulations of the 70’s kicked in.
It would be interesting to run it with a wideband sensor to see if it's going rich and lean at different RPMs and loads. I mean really it has to be if the injection pump throttle is not being changed.
And add a stepper motor servo on the mixture control to run closed loop from a microcontroller, just for good measure?
Are you guys in the right channel? Sensors? We don't use this here. lol
Thats not a throttle as such. Its an enrichment device. It decides how much fuel you get per revolution so presuming the car needs a certain % of fuel at a given rpm and that doesn't change (it wouldn't on a petrol since stoic is always the same) then if its right at one rpm it will be right all the way up - or very, very close depending on how the thermal efficeincy changes based on air speed and volume.
I think it's all about the speed and timing. By getting the correct amount of fuel into the cylinder almost instantly after the compression stroke, the fuel has more time to mix with oxygen in the down stroke it creates a vacuum and force mixes the oxidizer and fuel even more thoroughly it's like a secondary atomizer similar to experiments when water boils at room temperature under a vacuum the gasoline is locked in place and evaporating.
@@SF-dy6hn The mixture control on the pump controls the cam timing which opens the valves to the injectors inside the pump. A longer opening angle on the cam means the injector will be open for longer, and more fuel per stroke, hence a richer mixture.
This is the sort of thing I’ve always wanted to do to see if it worked in theory.
Garage54 does all the amazing stuff my mind conjures up. This shows high pressure port injection works. No need for complicated direct injection! Direct injection pressure, emissions cleanliness, and efficiency without expensive annoyingly complex fuel injectors that break. Pay attention car manufacturers, you guys over complicate everything! Garage 54 is on to something! Amazing work again.
yeah, it does work just that it's not optimized for it that's all
mercedes did this in the 80s before they decided to go to common rail efi like the rest of the world, they already milked this idea for its worth. Sorry to ruin your idea, the germans had it a long time ago
I’ll assume you’re referring to the 300 series diesel OM617’s. Those cars are amazing and my childhood favorites. My folks owned a few of em.
@@jamesadams2333 no, gasoline engines, look up k jetronic and how it works.
Make a project car, where you take the best experiments and put them all together in one car. This experiment should be one of the things you add to it.
Mazda make it, skyactiv
@@khalidmohsen9599 fecal matter extrusion
You need to link throttle and fuel pump together so that it gets more air when it gets more fuel.
This was an amazing video experience to watch. I never would have though a high pressure diesel fuel pump would have worked. Thanks for sharing.
It really isn't any different from normal port fuel injection, just using a mechanical pump and valves instead of their modern electronic counterparts. Modern high-efficiency gasoline engines use high-pressure direct injection too.
@@teardowndan5364 oh. I did not know. Thanks for telling me. I appreciate it. Thanks Again.
LADA might be the toughest engines on earth. They really run on anything, Soviet engineering at its peak.
I've never heard Sergey rev a lada motor that high before lol 😂 that was awesome
As a former LADA owner and professional engineer.. I’m pretty intrigued by this channel.. Had an old LADA for 7 years I kept running while I was a poor student.. But I can’t decide wether this is a LADA tune shop, or a LADA torture chamber😀
Perhaps try upgrading it with tensioner, better pump mount, and try tuning it with an AFR probe to modulate the pump and throttle body optimally together (with the gas pedal cable, as it's likely running nicely because the fuel get's sprayed super fine, which likely mitigates a bit the effects of it running really rich or lean - as a matter of fact new gasoline turbo engines with direct injection use this high pressure injection effect exactly for the same reason).
Great experiment, the engine doesn't sound at all like a lada. Almost like a smooth R4 bmw engine.
It's all about the mixture of the air and fuel and fuel into the incoming air charge into the intake valve. That's why they used multi port fuel injection for so long here in the states. It was basically the best of both worlds of diesel and gasoline engines combined. But the fact remains that the atomization of the air fuel mixture with the high pressure pump and injectors makes the gasoline almost like dust before it even hits the backside of the intake valve. The reason why a suction style roots supercharger makes so much more power than a blow through system does. Otherwise Top fuel dragsters would be running a blow through system. With methanol especially when the mixture is so rich that it's almost hydrolocking the cylinders with the amounts of liquid fuel being injected the roots style superchargers take the air and fuel and helps to atomize the fuel even more so than just the injection system can supply. This is how these engines can run on such crazy amounts of fuel! Without a supercharger to increase the air flow and to basically be a mixer to atomize the fuel even more during the rotation process that it can stuff more air and fuel into those cylinders than they would never see in a naturally aspirated format. If you can atomize gasoline to the point of almost vaporizing it your fuel economy is almost doubled. Chrysler Corp found all this BS out back in the 1960s while doing R&D on their engines and found that they could increase fuel efficiency by increasing the incoming fuel temperature which aided in the faster atomization of the gasoline molecules. This will then produce more BTUs in the burn 🔥 rate efficiency of the gasoline which normally leaves the cylinder only half burned off most times, which is why they use a catalytic converter with air injection to provide the burning off of the rest of the hydrocarbons which leaves the engine unburned. The fact is the faster the engine is turning, the less time it has to try and extract as much BTUs of energy from the fuel. This is why you see the flames coming out of the headers of a dragster engine even at idle, the mixture isn't being broken up good enough so raw unburned fuel is able to escape, then is burned outside the engine in the exhaust pipes. The theory is that if the engine gets to the point where it is able to mix and burn the mixture effectively enough to make power and lots of it. The downside is of course that a ton of unburned fuel is wasted because it's being ejected before its even halfway done burning. Methanol burns extremely cool and this is why so much is needed to convert it into usable BTUs of power. But unlike gasoline, because it runs so cool and likes to cool down the intake temperatures as well through evaporation the engines are capable of making much higher boost levels without the serious problems with gasoline and preignition or detonation occurring. Bottom line is the more you can atomize their gasoline the more efficient it becomes and you don't need to rely so heavily on the ignition system to light it and keep it light throughout the stroke. If you have a perfectly filled cylinder with the perfect 14.7:1 air to fuel ratio Top to bottom and side to side, in theory you'll achieve a full burn and extract the most naturally occurring BTUs from your cylinders capacity. This is why heads and camshafts are the heart of almost any 4 stroke engine and their efficiency is determined by how easily the engine can pump air which is not much different than if it were pumping a fluid. Everything comes down to the same thing efficiency in every aspect of the principle of thermal and fluid dynamics. The more you can get in the more you can technically get out when everything is working in sync.
Great comment.
Fit an automatic Oiling system for the fuel to it, so you dont have to mix Oil into the Gas seperatly
and fit a trumpet onto the Trottlebody so the air can be sucked in way faster
Fuel injected engines use fuel trim levels based off the O2 sensors to determine how long to keep the fuel injectors open. There is a return line from the fuel rail back to the fuel tank to send any excess fuel (pressure). Increasing the pressure in the fuel rail may have some differing effects on how the fuel is atomized (read: dispersed) in the air/fuel mixture, but as long as those effects are not too pronounced and the fuel system is capable of handling the increased pressure (not bursting) then the O2 sensors and computer (within reason) should be able to adjust the amount of time the fuel injectors stay open to optimize the stochastic air/fuel mixture. This will allow the engine to continue to run at near optimal ranges.
It’s amazing to see them upload great content.
Since no one has mentioned this, I will enlighten everyone. Diesels have no throttle plate, as a gasoline engine does. Diesel engine speed and power output are determined solely by the volume of fuel delivered by the injection pump. A gasoline engine's speed is regulated by airflow, making the throttle plate a key part. Essentially what has been done here is creating two throttle linkages, one for fuel volume, the other for air flow. Hence, they must be synchronized, much like a multi carburetor setup.
I can see this with a turbo making 10 psi a lot of fun and not too hard to do and figure out the throttle cables. But that’s amazing work science
Awesome! At diesel fuel pressures, (1800 to 2000 psi), the gas is instantly turned to a fog that mixes perfectly with all the air it can get. Put the electric turbo on it and hang on.
I'm always so interested in the translation. Is "crapping out" really a Russian phrase too?!
Edit: Lol the voice he gave the guy in the street was pretty funny too.
Hey guys in my life.I have never thought about visiting Russia.Or having any reason to.
Then I've seen your show and I absolutely love Russia now.
I had an idea and a question.
Leaf blower supercharger!!
Also what does adding two stroke oil to the gas do to a 4 stroke eng?
2 stroke Lada?
I love you guys, keep up the good work 👏. P.S. trade me presidents please.
Mechanical fuel injection Garage 54 style. Great stuff. Getting rid of the stock restrictive carb is always a win.
I'm just glad this channel can still exist.
To make a whole thing work properly, just add a starter motor powered supercharger you made a couple of videos ago, with a regulator to regulate an air amount.
Starter motors don't have enough power to make boost. Just blowing air is not enough, you need positive pressure in the manifold to make more power
@@Rudy97 then use a some kind of nozzle, for example convergent-divergent nozzle.
@@cenreaper3221 you can't make pressure without enough force to make the pressure.
@@MiG21aholic 😁❤️
@@MiG21aholic you want to say that turbocharger on normal cars have more power than starter motor?
A little bit of helpful information, there should be a screw you can adjust on the side of that high pressure diesel pump that will allow you to change the duration length of the fuel pulses for each injector also the golden ratio should be according to the math I've ran between throttle plate and fuel pump should be 3:1 the 3 being the air and the 1 being fuel. So in layman's terms if you crack the throttle all of the way on the intake you should only open the diesel pump throttle by 1/3 of its movement. The stoic mixture for fuel to combust is quite a wide and varied range, the only difference being there's a very small window of hyper efficiency where the fuel is completely burnt or there is no detonation occurring from running to lean or pig rich to wash out the plugs fire. I recommend finding a BMX bicycle brake cable a Teflon coated one to run from the fuel pump to where the throttle body cable is and run them parallel and have them pulled at that 3:1 ratio by using different sized cambered circle guides to regulate pull distance. Not sure if you know this or not but in the early 40s there were a couple cars that experimented from the factory with high pressure mechanical fuel pumps, also in most race applications with cars that run on methanol they have a mechanical high pressure fuel pump that is very similar to a diesel mechanical high pressure fuel pump.
man, every time i am thinking i will just watch a quick 5 or 10 minute video, you guys get me. I love you guys
I've recently swapped my 12v from a VE pump to a P7100. I wish it was this simple lol. I clicked this video very fast because I'm interested on how it will work out. Love this channel
I'm certain the atomization of the fuel from the port injection and diesel injectors is much better than a stock carbureted lada engine, letting the engine make more power and be more efficient
Dial it in with a wide band and a controlled IAC for good AFR's ! Do a mileage test . We have a 40 plus mpg v8 guy in America running a lawn mower carb!
Could You tell me the name of this channel?
I'd love to see what these guys could do with a 2.3 Ford Lima engine with the 8 plug head!
That would be nice but those are probably very rare in Russia
@@florin26balalau very true. I know the engine was used worldwide, but I'm not sure how easy they would be to come across outside of the North and South American continents. I honestly don't think these guys would even care to look for one. If I had the skill and abilities they use, as long as I had parts of an engine to start with, it wouldn't matter if it was just a box of random mixed parts, there would be a running engine at the end. 🙂
@@jasonkuehl639 this definitely was a good experiment that's for sure
Now you can place a Turbo on the engine and adjust the fuel with the Diesel pump. This system is like the first mechanical injection. Good job my friend !!!!!
Put her on the dyno. Would be curious to see the power band and hp compared to the stock configuration.
`remember , a diesel engine has no throttle plate , the intake is always open in a diesel manifold , and the engine speed is controlled by the pump . The pump delivers the diesel directly to the cylinder at the very last minute as diesel combusts under pressure and not by spark , therefore the diesel cannot be introduced at say 30 deg btdc like in a petrol engine since it will prematurely combust or not comb at all so the diesel is sprayed at the very last point btdc and has to be at higher pressure than tat of inside the cylinder at that time wich is extremely high for diesel engines , so , the setup on your lada now works fine yes , but the mixture will never be correct . I bet you it over enriching it allot. Im glad you guys did this coz its something i have been wondering over for years and never had the chance to try . i knew it would work though...
The concept was used in many cars. Its called mechanical fuel injection. Vw Golf Gti mk1 = Kjetronic injection . Ford also had a mechanical injection. audi 5 cyl... im just curious to know how long the pump will last having petrol through it ....
Vlad doesn't get near the recognition he deserves for teaching these kids! 🏆
Who cares
He is exploiting free labour, like my grandpa, who made his students practice building homes for him :)
@@vincentas1 Then they used the skills they learned to earn money.
I love your channel! You guys are nuts with all of your experiments!
I have an idea for you.
How about taking an unfortunate Lada 4 cylinder, using stock size pistons, overbore each cylinder 0.010", 0.020", 0.030" and 0.040" respectively to see how much piston slap and excess clearance it can handle?
Maybe use individual header pipes to see how much each cylinder behaves with blow-by and how much compression loss occurs?
Either use stock size rings or oversized rings in the respective cylinders but each with a stock size piston.
Give it a try! Thanks and I look forward to seeing the results!
The last thing any engine wants to hear is, "Hey there fellows! Today we are going to abuse this here Lada four banger!"
Greetings from an American fan. I am living and working in Saudi Arabia as an aircraft maintenance technician.
It would be very interesting to test it on a dyno and compare it with an unmodified engine to see how much extra you gain.
I'm not surprised this works fine. Mechanical multipoint fuel injection has been the method for supplying fuel to airplane engines for very long. Simple, reliable, and powerful.
It will be great to see the afr at certain rpms. Measure it with wideband gauge.
The Injection pumps I work on automatically trim the fuel based on engine speed using a governor. When you adjust the lever on the injection pump, you are telling the governor how fast the engine should be spinning and it increases/decreases fuel to hold that speed.
It would be nice to see you try this on a course or street with no snow or ice do comparative drag race test
Vlad it gets better - that pump has a boost enrichment compensator built in. It you run a turbo or supercharger you only need to feed boost to that compensator and it will fuel up as boost builds.
Also the "throttle" on the diesel pump isn't really a throttle - its an enrichment adjuster. The rpm is dictated by engine speed and that lever adjusts how much fuel you get per revolution.
You can also adjust that with the screw under the cover but I would say its close to correct the way thats running so maybe leave it alone.
The boost compensator is adjustable too - you take off thet "hat" on the top and there is an eccentric plunger - turn it to allow more or less fuel depending on boost level. A lot of the Japanese pumps are restricted too - usually with a white nylon washer on the top of the enrichment plunger.
You can have a lot of fun with these.
Make two stroke lada engine!!!
This works much better than my old Hilborn racing system. They use constant flow injectors but vary pressure (much lower than this) with rpm and throttle opening. It's almost impossible to run on the street due to poor mixture control. I was TOTALY surprised to see it run this good!! I expected a lot of swearing just to get it to start and then even more when trying to drive it! When you are opening the throttle blade, you are leaning it out. (All racing MFI systems have a "barrel" valve hooked to the throttle to control mixture with throttle position.) When you open the Diesel throttle, you SHOULD be flooding it. I have built a lot of multi carb race motors, and boy, you can spend a lot of time messing with jets, etc especially daily driving it. Even going from your warm shop to the cold outside would make a big difference to a carburetor. That's why racers, especially with MFI setups, carry thermometers, barometers, and humidity gauges to calculate air density to jet properly day to day or day to night, its that finiky especially on gasoline. Alchohol is much more forgiving. But not this setup! It just EATS! it has to be that the fuel is vaporized rather than atomized. You could connect a simple choke cable to the Diesel pump to play with leaning it out while cruising just to see your mpg. A vacuum advance from a distributor hooked up to the Diesel throttle with a spring with different holes to hook it in and limiter screws to change fuel rate would make it more responsive Resist the idea of using an AFR sensor to tune it. But one to monitor it would be fine to record what IT wants. I bet you will find that sucker is running fine all over the place on AFR due to the vaporized fuel. I know from racing and dynoing engines that some like it lean, and some liked to smoke a little for max performance and not to be tuned to someone's perfect AFR numbers. Im intrigued!
Also, mount the pump to the engine, or you will fracture the high pressure lines eventually. Switch to a cog belt drive. You will probably find that the Diesel pump has its own internal governor that will shut down your fuel at a certain RPM. The biggest thing is to not lean it out so much that you hole a piston under load. Most Diesel injection pumps DO NOT change pressure to the nozzles with throttle changes, they change how long injection lasts and they advance or retard the timing also. Some Cummins engines with the PT (pressure/time) system did vary pressure as well. Good luck! Great show!
Since the pump setting never changes, the air/fuel ratio depends on the throttle position. So be careful, the more you open the throttle, the leaner it gets.
the pump goes up on revs with the engine(and does more revs, pumps more gas injection cycles). the problem is more of the opposite, that driving part throttle at high revs gets you same fuel as full throttle (provided that the full throttle behavior is okay).
Yep, they need to hook up a wideband o2 sensor in the exhaust. That way they should be able to watch and correct the mixture.
The higher the revs the more line pressure. The lower the revs the less pressure. And with what we see in the video being the engine able to rev up top and still have the power to pull is a sign of enough (or more than that) fuel to create the power and is not going that lean (too lean and you start bogging down...not enough fuel to make good enough combustion)
True, it is running well and revs up and makes good power, so perhaps it’s not as bad as I thought. But at a minimum, the mixture is uncontrolled. Would be interesting to see the readings in real time.
@@facusan2339 they'd need to devise some more mechanical control like kugelfischer injection had, which is another similar thing to this what they built.
without having some more valves or bypass(back to tank) that operate somehow from vacuum, throttle position or such it's basically just a linear this many revs gets you this much fuel regardless of anything else going on. the bypass back to tank might be easier than having a valve before the injector.
I'm not sure how the ww2 era airplane injection worked, but there was some.
When I seen that the video was 28 min long, I thought you were going to have a pump timing issue. Good job!!!
Same here :)
Im surprised it went so smoothly.
Now all that is left is to convert a gas Lada engine into a diesel. Put the injectors in the spark plug holes, put a bunch of weld into the combustion chambers to up the compression, and go!
they did a diesel to gasoline toyota
@@lasskinn474 I know, hence why I said go gas to diesel.
You guys should put an O2 sensor to monitor the mixtures and connect throttle plate cable to the pump and move the two simultaneously.
I want to see this thing on the dyno compared to a bone stock engine.
I'm pretty sure you're gaining more power and throttle response because it is atomizing the fuel a lot better than a carburetor would and it's also sending a mixture of fuel in are directly to the cylinder that needs it instead of wherever it wants to go
FIT A STANDARD TRANSMISSION TO THE BACK OF AN AUTOMATIC!!
Yooo that would be cool
😂 how did you think of this?
@@Me-zo8yc I dont understand why they havent tried this yet
@@quevicular It's insanely genius or geniusly insane
@@Me-zo8yc Why thank you. Dont know if it would burn out the syncros at all. Might have some impact on them. You could run super hi gearing in it and still have many lower gears to be in almost crawl mode. Dont need overdrive and all the compoohter crap neither
In addition to my comments below, I need to add that you just happened to get the right style of governor in your pump, (limiting speed) . There are two types of governor, limiting speed and variable speed or throttling governor. Variable speed should actually be called constant speed because when you move the control it adjusts the governed rpms not the fuel rate like yours does. So, like for tractors etc that want to hold a constant rpm as set by the operator even when going downhill or pulling hard the constant speed governor varies the fuel rate to hold the rpms at the selected point. If you had a constant speed governor as soon as the rpms came up unless you also moved the pump throttle up it would cut the fuel off. If the rpms dropped below that setting it would flood the engine trying to pick up speed to match the throttle rpm setting as if it was in the Diesel engine. However, limiting speed governors DO vary the fuel rate with load but only at idle (that's why the Lada started so easy, the pump automatically dumps in full fuel until idle speed is reached) or when "floored" at that point they will adjust the fuel rate according to load to hold maximum rpms but nowhere else in between. That's one reason why the old 2 stroke Detroits earned a reputation for being gutless in trucks. Unlike Cat or Cummins that had constant speed governors (think cruise control) For highway use. On road Detroits only had limiting speed governors (stamped with an LS on the tag)and wouldn't automatically react to going up a hill etc unless the pedal was on the floor and they were wound out. In dozers, tractors, scrapers etc they had variable (constant) speed governors (stamped VS) and because of being two stroke they responded quicker to a load than a turbochaged 4 stroke and did so with about 1/2 the cubic inches. So, in short most tractor pumps won't work and some on road pumps either. Hope this helps. I certainly would like to see this refined!
The diesel injector is accustomed to passing #2 fuel oil thru it's passages. Gasoline is much thinner, so you are getting more fuel to the engine at a given setting than you would if it was burning diesel fuel. A diesel fuel injector has a strong spring inside. When the fuel pressure at the injector exceeds the spring pressure in the injector, the injector 'pops." A very simple setup when compared to gasoline fuel injection.
A wideband sensor would go a long way to show more results but likley hood is its really rich to start and comes alive as wakes up.
Great video :)
The spray of the fuel at high pressure drags air in the cylinder with it. Supercharging effect!
I love how responsive the engine is and how hard you can rev a Lada engine. Did all kinds of shit with my Niva and the engine held on until the body was rusted useless...
I would so set a servo controller on an arm and connect it to the throttle body to open and close the pump accordingly with a large servo, it would even it out even more and the air fuel mix could be tuned perfectly. Atomization with diesel injectors help as well. I am wondering if the pump is also getting a boost since you don't see diesels revving that high.
Exactly it's rich down low which is why it's so lazy.
The pump just puts in a certain amount so rpm will not matter as it still puts in the same amount of fuel in.
@@aaronhall7740 I am not sure that pump is being regulated at all, I see a vacuum line that should be attached to regulate the pressure. There may be a lot of variance there.
Thanks guys, and stay weird.
1:19 I suppose you could make a GDI engine this way, if you bought a gasoline that used 2 spark plugs per cylinder. You could make some adapter that got a diesel nozzle in place of one of the spark plugs. I don't think any eastern bloc car was built that way. I think the easiest carb 4 cylinder you could find would be a Nissan Z20s, Z22s, or Z24s.
6:27 Diesel injectors can get very hot. Having extra fuel flow from them and leave cools them off. It's sort of like using the fuel tank as a radiator.
12:49 I love the way diesels work. They just let in as much air as possible, no throttle needed, except for some smog engines. Just injecting a tiny amount of fuel or the full amount is what controls it. I never liked the idea that unless at full throttle, gasoline engines would be pulling some kind of vacuum. I think some BMW valvetronic and Fiat multiair engines were able to eliminate the throttle.
15:21 I did not expect that. Usually diesel pumps are self governed, and diesels tend to have a low redline. I figured you wouldn't get past ~5000 RPM.
18:00 2 stroke oils don't have the kind of additives that would make colored smoke. Zinc, phosphorous, and sulfur are a must for 4 stroke engine oil.
19:22 Carbs can't atomize and vaporize the fuel as effectively as high pressure fuel injectors. They also tend not to distribute fuel all that evenly between cylinders. That is one reason multi port injection engines and GDI engines are more powerful and start more quickly than carb engines. Also, TBI engines aren't that great.
Our burnout cars have a pump similar to this, we run them on methanol and can adjust how much fuel goes into it to run it richer or leaner with a lever
Now it needs a turbo, maybe add the electric turbo too and get a six cylinder pump for the six cylinder engine.
Connect the linkage between pump and butterfly. Leave the long intake, it should help with low rpm torque. Great work guys!!
Congratulations! Lada Fuelie! Wonderful!
This just shows once again that a Lada engine will run on what you give it......I Love Lada......from Canada
Definitely much more torque 💨 Enjoyed this video guys 👍
For a moment I thought they were doing a bad conversion to a diesel engine, but I was surprised, and I could see the expression of happiness on your face! Glad it turned out so well, I loved it! Now put the injectors instead of the spark plugs, diesel fuel, increase the compression and you will get a diesel Lada!
I would love to see that now converting a gas engine to diesel would be cool to watch
@@raven4k998 In my country that is something that was done very often a few years ago, for example in the 6-cylinder engines of the old mustangs (here they were from a national Falcon) increasing the compression and placing injectors (in the place where the spark plugs were) and diesel injection pump for trucks with low displacement engines and tuning it for the new engine.
@@Zeeos27 just be careful of scammers if you have a diesel that try to charge you for replacing your spark plugs on your diesel engine cause that's a scam scammer like to try hoping you'll fall for it and pay for something you don't actually need cause diesels don't have spark plugs
Turning on the heater obviously avoids the engine overheating when you run the engine on high revolutions for extended period of time...
Great shows guys
Kudos to the editors and VO
Look up a cross ram hemi or 426 cross ram to see the best tourque intake manifold ever made. Notice how intake tubes dip down to exhaust and is 3 feet long. That curve matters a lot for tourque. Tunnel ram manifolds are for RPM and horsepower.? They had a problem from exhaust manifold boiling gas in float bowls and creating vapor lock. Check those old Chyslers.
Diesel injectors are under much higher compression pressures.
I always thought it squirts variable by electric servo and CPU but at 7k rpm that would be insane valving. So it must use the piston pressure to open.
Maybe its a electro mechanical trigger each intake stroke when it senses vacume
That would allow the engine to always fire at right time. Then again maybe its just pooling the gas as if your squirting from a bottle.
Set that rig up on a bench so we can see it squirt under prssure and SLOW MOTION cam on your phone.
Internet came to late for us old timers
Anyway just saying
Try alcohol with that injector?
Also did you ever hear of a reed valve?
Or a circular flat valve?
Its like a one way flap valve
Great shows
Dig out you starter motor supercharger and install it for more power. Diesel usually has turbo.
Fuel injected gasoline engined Mercedes in the 60's had inline "diesel" injector pumps to feed the motor. I had one, a 1966 W112 inline 6.
An actual success!
You have improved a Lada 👏👏👏👏
Of course it runs well, the high injection pressure and the fine nozzles make for great atomization.
I don't quite get how it's working either, but my *guess* would be it's that the _"pump throttle"_ he's adjusting is more akin to a pressure regulator.
It's actually the engine RPMs that when increased (throttle opened), is turning the pump faster, generating more *flow* (dumping in more fuel) at that constant pressure... 🤷♂️
It would explain why he didn't really increase the RPMs much after a certain point, because the fuel was being atomized sufficiently already, before the pump was cranked up to "100%" _(to borrow his term, since at the end he mentioned it only being at 85%)_
In reality, this is how the original Fuel Injection systems worked way back in the day (I think the first *car* with one came out in the 1950s; war planes having it before that). It was all mechanical and that's why we later, to differentiate them, dubbed the new system EFI: *electronic* fuel injection.
The way it works you're supposed to leave the throttle body all the way open. Then you use the injector pump to meter the RPMs of the motor. There should be just a wide open throttle at the top. That's the way it works in a diesel. One of the reasons why they don't use this setup on a gasoline engine, is because the fuel needs to be metered differently under a load, then it does when it's just Free Wheeling. It needs to be enriched under a load, and at the same RPM can be leaner while just Freel coasting. But you could make it on the rich side and make the car drivable, by adjusting the diesel pump to rev through the RPM range with the upper throttle body wide open all the time. That's how it works on a diesel, and it should work for the gasoline engine also. Only difference being under a load you can't change the amount of fuel that it gets, while maintaining that same stable RPM. Keeping it on the rich side, you would be able to drive it with just accelerating the diesel pump alone. They're also is a way to adjust how much fuel sprays out of it.
To put it in simpler terms, a gasoline engine meters the air and fuel mixture at the same time, for variances in load.
A diesel engine meters how much fuel enters the cylinders, and does not meter the air intake, it just gets wide open air intake, and RPM is managed ONLY by the variable fuel output of the diesel pump.
Good afternoon, I think that instead of using a diesel injection pump, they should have installed a Kugelfischer which is more suitable for 4-cylinder gasoline engines, these MPI pumps were used in some models of BMW, Lancia, Ford and other European brands.
Most older diesel engines with injection pumps don't use a throttle butterfly. It is normally a straight pipe. The diesel injection pump adds fuel to rev engine and take fuel away to decrease engine revs
i use 2-stroke oil in my cars occasionally, at about 500:1 ratio... or 1 oz per 4 gallons. it has no problems burning, no smoke and helps lube the injectors & pump. some say this helps get slightly better fuel economy, i haven't seen any significant change.
try it at 40-1, compression will increase with oil on both sides of the rings
Since your on a diesel parts kick, find a small turbo off an old diesel tractor...
The Lada screams pretty good now.. Get it ready for the track :)
Some ford escorts in the 80s toyed with mechanical pumps, they worked fairly well but was overly complicated by the time injection was needed for emission and started to faulter with emissions
22:33 That lada Nova wants to go out so badly
I love channels like this, where it's just a case of how do you control with fuel injection with an angle grinder and zip tie. No laptops in sight :)