While I agree DoT has issues, I think the main issues IS DoT PF lineup. Just a quick summary. - big HP increase. - 1st side has puppets that gives no energy and bugs that don't attack, and when they do they inflict outrage, so your counter units kind of struggle here without a good cleanser/ Aventurine. DoT puppets synergy makes it so you literally cannot do first side sustainless unless you have an insanely strong team. - 2nd side has lots of CC, SPD debuffs, Bronya delays a ton with one of her attacks, second wave can also stall you with robots that heal and shield themselves - all the aforementioned lineup enemy synergies are magnified by a hundred by you advancing enemies that you generally would never want to advance, not even as a DoT team. - cacophony buffs : let's be real, the DoT one is good, but every other buff is pathetic this time around. even if you put shatter and ultimate buffs instead of DoT on this lineup, a lot of people would still struggle here.
The thing that makes sustainless runs almost impossible is the advance per attack mechanic. Unless you're killing the enemies in one shot, a sustain character is a must. The "DoT" buff is actually Acheron buff (guaranteed debuff per attack and action advancing enemies). Which makes sense since it's Acheron's rerun, not Kafka's or BS'.
real, i used to clear dot pf with either clara or yunli, but the damn dot robot is very annoying. I also needed to save FF for the bronya side, so the pf itself is a nightmare to clear
i didnt want to specify pf "the fight" specifically, because last time it happened it didnt have these mechanics. the worst part last time was the running trotter, and the puppets which was much more manageable. this is a great analysis though.
Power creep refers to the situation where new content or features make older ones obsolete or irrelevant, creating an imbalance and a loss of diversity in the game. Now, what does the enemy have to do with your characters when it comes to power creep? You can’t power creep anyone by making the enemies stronger. Only when you release a new character that does it better than the older one.
Previous dot PF had a buff that would spred dot upon enemy's death, which helped significantly with it's main problem - application. Current PF doesn't have that. Also, funny thing: in the current dot I have Kafka (whom I didn't have before), and... She is performing worse than all of my other PF units.
yeah same. I didn't have enough to get Swan (mainly bc I wanted Sunday and had some minor reservations), so my Kafka is basically half the character she's supposed to be even with Sampo....we need more accessible dot options...
Lmao same. Tried my new Kafka in the current pf and it felt so terrible. Couldn't afford to pull Black Swan so ig she'll basically remain handicapped if we get no DoT units for the forseeable future. It's sad because I thought I could finally use her for a stage that's supposed to make her shine. Ended up clearing with Clara + Herta + Aventurine + Robin team instead lmao
@ I’m still struggling to create a team for the second half (this is what I get for having reservations about Jade I suppose. Clara why do you avoid me…). I might give it more attempts in 2.7 with JY.
@@animalpetdrakenstar6598 wish you the best! I've seen some clears with Jingyuan and Blade, so you could try them with like Herta and see how it goes. Lost my 50/50 on Jade myself, so I don't have her either :"D Also, if you didn't know already, Hoyolab app has Lineup Assistance so you could take a look into that to see how players are clearing pf with similar character rosters like you, it's pretty helpful!
the problem is that the 4 star dots aren't able to capitalize on the buffs in a really meaningful way. Imagine if Sampo or Guinaifen could effectively be on par with "Herta" as a PF cleared in dot rotation, but they simply aren't
availability of dot units is the #1 problem, kafka and bs are downright necessary and the 4 stars suck so hard you dont have a real alternative, you only have 6 dot units in the entire game. the other meta archetypes are completely unlike this and dont have this strict cost.
@@reshmin1760 we kinda already have 2 F2P DoT detonators in Gui and Sampo being able to proc fire and wind DoTs, and releasing 4* Kafka would make no sense
oh look who would've thought tying an entire archetype to one limited unit would have dire consequences. plus hoyo forgot about dot and even if they did add dot support right now, kafka numbers are so low that she cant' keep up with modern day units' dmg.
This PF was kind of hard even if I have DoT units. The DoT just wasn't enough to one-shot the smaller mobs which would waste you a turn and that goes a long way. I really hope this was a sign that DoT needs a new character who can buff most DoT units.
Also most people don't mention this but DOT units other than Black swan and Jiaoqiu(for Acheron), aren't even good for Pure fiction. Like All the other DOT units have to attack to apply their DOT, and you really want ways to attack outside of your turn/gain more turns with follow ups, AOE ults or mechanics like Seele's Resurgence. For example Kafka, the unit who is supposed to embody DOT, is not good at base in PF, you need her LC because her only way to apply a DOT without LC is her Follow up(which is single target)and her Ultimate, which clears all enemies but so can a ton of other characters. I actually have friends who tried to split up Kafka on one side and Black swan on the other and their Kafka side always struggled. Realistically it isn't even a DOT Pure fiction, it's a Black swan and Jiaoqiu+Acheron Pure fiction. And tbh you don't even want to advance certain enemies in this lineup(the DOT robot takes half yr HP, the bug stuns yr team, bronya delays and cleanses the DOTs, and the traffic light shields up). Like if you just showed me the lineup of enemies, I would say it's an anti DOT Pure fiction.
All I can say is my love for Jiaoqiu (E2) really paid off this time around. He is the gift that keeps giving. P1: Jiaoqiu, Gallagher, Asta, Guinaifen P2: Sampo, Luocha, Black Swan, Serval
We need a harmony unit that enables every teamate to detonate DOTs at like 40% scalling on every attack and then have follow ups like Kafka. And a physical shielder that applies bleed and synergise with trend so we can have all types of dots in the team.
The problem is that the current dot does so little damage. I believe that while detonation is important, the only real ways dot can improve is: A. If we get better dot units than Kafka/Black Swan, although powercreep would only be a temporary solution as it doesn't fix any of DOT's flaws. B. Hoyo gives a support designed to fix the flaws mentioned in the video, like a detonater support you suggested or a support that can convert a unit's attack into additional DOT damage. C. If hoyo allows introduces another multiplier that DOT Damage can scale off of. Like a hypothetical 'DOT damage%'. This could be a relic mainstat or substat, or supports could just give the stat to units.
@@shimmienshakeIf you actually look at the multipliers on black swan's arcana, you'll see that damage isn't the problem. It's actually enabling that damage. Introducing more sources of DoT detonation as well as a powerful dedicated DoT buffer would help the strategy a ton. DoT is one of the few team comps that is simply incomplete. DoT doesn't have a dedicated sustain or a dedicated buffer as of yet.
I came up with a "four star Kafka paradox" in my head the other day, and it basically suggests, that a 4⭐detonator Nihility carry would solve the DoT problem for all players and especially F2P, but then the problem with that is that it challenges the dev team to make this character simultaneously _viable_ in current content, but also _worse_ than Kafka and Acheron - and this task would be next to impossible to pull off with the game mechanics that we have. The other thing I noticed, is that Sampo and Guinaifen, and I guess Hook, are the only viable DoT users on the 4⭐ roster and as such, with no NEW ones available, it's easy to see how it kinda became forgotten. Ordinary weakness break of Imaginary, Ice, and Quantum has no DoT infliction, but if they developed a new character of those elements with unique DoT's to inflict of those elements, it could sell some more interest in the archetype. Also, I think some role compression to make DPSes that can be DoT users but also double as a crit DPS or something in order to make them compatible with more team comps. I mean, technically Jiaoqiu's already a role-compression in that his ashen roast was primarily made for Acheron but it can also double as a DoT applicator if you build him with the same relic sets as the DoT roster.
This PF wouldn't have been so tough if hoyo gave us more dot units to work with in the past year. And we really need more dot focused supports like one that applies the "Suspicion" debuff from Sim universe or one that spreads the stacks to more enemies just so we have more utility for the dot core.
Its so strange to me that they are making this PF all about DOT when Rappa just released. I know they do have a side that is imaginary weak plus a break buff and all but DOT is obviously the main focus here. DOT has barely been given anything since Black Swan came out, and had basically nothing consistent even before her. JQ doesn't count, he's a debuffer with a side of burn. There still isn't a dedicated DOT buffer who isnt also a damage dealer. We need a character who has a power budget entirely dedicated to DOT buffing effects. Hoyo neglecting to give DOT any support for what is getting close to a year now wouldnt really be a bad thing if they didnt insist upon its existence so much. These are the kinda PF stages that would be added if a new DOT character got released and even then its still ridiculous due to the cost of entry DOT demands. We need a new DOT 4 star that is actually good, like the more recent 4 stars have been, and a new 5 star. But then again, the cost issue appears again.
Ngl we kinda need a 2nd DOT trigger one that triggers all dot everytime the said character's dot triggers. or a dot support something like suspicion that could increase dot damage that also has like a nahida c2 thing where dots can crit. Ruan mei or Robin probably ain't cutting it anymore. Even though robin leads to bigger dot numbers and those breaks from ruan mei can be something, but dot seriously really needs a dedicated support. Idk if removing kafka or swan can be ideal. Since kafka and swan somewhat need each other to be good. Even though swan can be used outside of dot like acheron for an example.
I pulled for black swan on her last rerun but not for Kafka (I got Robin instead) just because the last DoT PF was so miserable I wanted to have her in case it would ever come back. Lo and behold, my Acheron+BSwan+Guinaifen team performed worse than my e2 Firefly break team and my Jade+Herta team in a season dedicated to shill DoT. I felt kinda bitter to be honest lmao
Not a hot take at all, but thanks for putting so clearly the pain points of DoT units and teams. I do feel like your usage of break teams was a bit of a ineffective argument though. "Every team can make use of break" is true, but I think you could've been more nuanced by using follow-up teams instead. You can reinforce your point that not every team can utilise follow-up blessings, but there are more than enough units that the blessings are accessible to more people. Great vid, just being That Person who nitpicks so your arguments become more airtight. Looking forward to the next one :)
I think your points about the issues of the DoT can be traced back to one key issue when put into a broader perspective. DoT is a mechanic introduced in 1.0, just like Break. Guess which on got a major upgrade and became a more in depth mechanic. All the while, HP powercreep has been happening with the post game content. DoT got a big upgrade with Kafka back in 1.2 and… well, the mechanic got its best dmg dealer in Black Swan in 2.0 and that’s about it. So if it feels like DoT as a mechanic is something you expect out of 1.x, that’s because it is. Honestly, if it weren’t for the fact that there are post game content that focus on DoT, I imagine many people wouldn’t worry so much about the archetype since people tend to move on to one meta to the next in gacha games. And yet, the HSR team certainly… makes some decisions sometimes. lol But considering what they did with Break, they may possibly do something with DoT like they did with Break in the future, where they essentially “redesign” the archtype by introducing new mechanics. But we’ll have to see.
Mind you, I still find DoT a very fun mechanic, so it’s not like all of this bothers me that much. But I would like the HSR team to do something with it eventually since there’s not a lot you can do when you don’t have Kafka. lol
For any Acheron user, take the boost that applies wind dot on any attack then take follow-up characters. Free ult every 5 seconds. Herta, Himeko, Aventurine and Clara are probably the best for this strat.
All I know that when I see the DoT buffs with annoying enemies I have to put effort into clearing it with my teams. Which its great by me, at last I can think a bit.
This is one of those moments where I am grateful for my privilege of having E6S1 Kafka. (Saved for Kafka since the start of the game, finished her on her 1.5 rerun.) I’ve essentially built my account around DoT, so I have all of the core pieces (bar HuoHuo, she ran at bad times for me… but Lingsha my beloved has righted all of my wrongs) and I do not struggle with DoT (or really any content in this game for that matter outside of ONE AS we have had so far). That all being said, I 100% agree that DoT needs help, and that most of its problems come from generalized neglect of the archetype in favor of heavily pushing break and followup in the 2.0 era of the game. Swan was great, but the archetype needs more. I don’t think Jiaoqiu is what DoT is looking for. DoT needs support that isn’t locked behind an E1/E2 of a limited 5star. HuoHuo is fine, but she is more of an “incidental synergy” pick instead of a DoT support. DoT really should take inspiration from SU in designing support characters for DoT, particularly of the Harmony/Abundance/Preservation kind. Suspicion increasing DoT damage? Nice Applying a status that lets DoT’s crit such as with Sin Thirster? Could be nice. More characters that detonate DoT’s like Kafka? As long as they aren’t strictly better than E6 Kafka (#BIAS 😂) Making actual DoT’s a little more utilitarian than they currently are? That would be great. There’s plenty that can be done I feel. Hoyo just needs to start throwing them a bone. Hopefully the leaks (take this with a grain of salt) suggesting the potential of a rising Nihility meta post 3.3-3.4 will mean good things coming to the Direction of DoT. Fingers crossed. 🙏
I still don't have a single 5-star Erudition (not even Himeko), so DoT PF actually worked well for me. I have my brute force Super-Break team and Kafka/Swan. Very happy that I picked up the DoT core back in 1.6/2.0.
especially with imaginary weakness but even without, it's rappa pf, the enemies getting advanced by getting hit unbreaks them sooner so she can break them again and get more stacks for more damage and toughness reduction on each enhanced basic
To “fix” the DoT archetype, I think they need to do what they did for break/FUA which is create a good F2P option for the archetype that is accessible to everyone. Break has HMC and FUA has Hunt March 7th. They need to stop being so stingy with DoT triggers because the only good one is Kafka and Ig Sampo but his is edionlon locked, for wind shear only, and the trigger multipler isn’t that high. Then they need to introduce a new Dot character( DPS/Support/Sustain). Jiaoqiu could have been the Archeron and DoT support which in my opinion, he is but a 180% DoT multipler isn’t good enough. It should have been 240% or something, it wouldn’t have been game breaking. Then when we have a full DoT team of Dot DPS (Swan), DoT Retrigger (Kafka), DoT Suppert (New Character), and DoT Sustain (New Character, I don’t think HuoHuo is the DoT sustain, it just happens to work with the team), we could be good.
fwiw Gui can trigger all Arcana stacks for BS when they have Epiphany But ya DoT needs help. Proper Support, proper Sustain, new Relics maybe even. Prisoner is strong, but getting older and very generic. Also Nihility Herta Cone is disappointing.
@ Yeah she can but the triggers are so unoften for GUI it barely matters. Maybe Dot could get a new Planer set even though glamoth is really good for them
They hate because it's made dirty. Only Kafka activate and her damage is bad and lacks AoE even for PF, Black Swan does nothing than buffing and increasing arcana too
@mauriciorosademoraes9209 black swan is the reason they die as soon as they enter the field wym Also what are you talking about she lacks aoe? Brother I don't think you know enough about the game to pretend to have strong opinions
@@Outerringfuelgod Agressive hmm? Then i will show you that i know what i'm talking about. 1. Lacks AoE: Arcana to be Blast Type damage needs at least 3 stacks which without Kafka's ultimate and S1 is impossible in 5 target scenario, only 2 enemies will have blast type DoT damage because Kafka's skill is single target and Follow-up. The strength of Kafka is getting a lot of energy but this doesn't change her nature incapable state of abusing Black Swan AoE power with mastery. Also, Black Swan can spread stacks of arcana in Blast Type but this needs enemies to attack which can be a pain because New enemies normally start with high action value, attacking before Kafka's ultimate or follow-up etc... and then the act much after 2. Kafks can't stack Arcana Black Swan have 50 stacks of Arcana, Kafka overall at max can get 25 after 1,5 cycle in MoC (EDIT: IN ONE ENEMY)and obvious is impossible in PF and APOC she can't do high damage because of this, needing much turns to stack arcana and then loses it which makes DoT niche in APOC. In US it's funny because without the universal DoT procs buffs have the same problem and even with the buffs stills pretty slow to get 50, at least you can maintain Black Swan's ultimate to get this.
My heart does hurt for the people that don't have Kafka or Swan, but as someone who's had both ever since Swan... I've been having a great time this whole time. They've been my default for SimUni and daily farming ever since.
Same. They also pair well with Acheron. In addition, the numbers from the simulation do not match my experience. In my experience, DoT with Acheron is on par with Erudition units in PF. I haven't used Erudition units in the last 3 PFs, and the DoT team genuinely did better than an E3S1 Firefly backed by all kinds of Break units with investment. Then again, all were on auto. For context, this is E0S1 BS, E0S0 Kafka with S5 GNSW, E0S1 Acheron, and E0S0 Fu Xuan with S5 Trend. You can probably replace GNSW with the Herta Shop Nihility cone. I'm just lazy.
an e3s1 firefly on auto is expected, you could minmax her to higher levels off auto (free turn units are really bad with it, especially with break) and get better performance
3:00 And it isn't even the strongest PF team. If we were comparing with Rappa SuperBreak instead of Firefly SuperBreak, the diference to DoT team would be even more obvious.
Hopefully this Pure Fiction still has a day or two left after Fugue comes out, because I used Break Himeko (Topaz/Himeko/HTB/Gallagher) in first phase and I think Fugue may be a better outlet for that than Topaz. Aside from that, I used Kafka/Sampo/Rappa/Ruan Mei in phase two and got a solid ~3.3k points. It's really first phase that's holding me back.
Another thing that annoys me is that the default dot effects don't do anything exciting except for Bleed. And if you get any of these by breaking, only bleed will actually hurt, even if you use someone like Firefly with 400+ BE to break. You'd think DoT would benefit from this mechanic but they won't unless they make Erudition Boothill. Back to my point though, Burn and Shock just deal damage, and Wind Shear can be stacked and it'll deal more damage if you do. And, well, somehow Entanglement and Freeze don't count so rip.
In other news my 50/50 100% win rate continutes and I have basically completed the IPC team as a f2p. E0S1 Topaz E0S1 Robin E0S1 Aventurine and my free Ratio from 6 months ago (when I started playing) with stellar sea. I'm having a good time :3
Got 60k with a break ff himeko and feixiao herta aventurine fua, the dmg dealth reduction is good on break sustainless and the action forward makes stacking aventurine fua easier thus giving feixiao more ult stack
Honestly I also feel like the enemy advance mechanic this time around really doesn't help dot much either. As you said, any dot team other than Kafka Swan sucks, but even then, with those two you want to try and build Arcana stacks on enemies to actually be able to kill them quickly enough. But the advance most of the time just resets your stacks before you could get anywhere. Especially when enemies start spawning in, a lot of the time I'd have to watch a painful 1 stack arcana go off that didn't even have its AoE yet,, (maybe this is a skill issue idk but it did annoy me). And on that note: without her signature LC, kafka's uptime is abysmal in PF. She can only apply shock through ult (which usually kills every enemy on field anyways) or through follow ups, which are single target. This means a lot of the time when the (turn advanced) enemies act, they won't even have one of the two important sources of damage applied..
hell I have e0s0 kafka and e0s1 black swan and it was still a drag to get through, not that it was hard it just felt very meh idk dot is in dire need of a new character that makes it not feel as bad as it does rn
hopefully nihility trailblazer comes out soonish that can either 1: gives an inf stacking debuff making enemies take more DoT damage every time they take a DoT and/or 2: increases DoT damage of allies whenever the ally's dot is triggered, would also be nice if the nihility trailblazer could also add a dot or trigger dots.
DOT PF are always so rough for me, I can barely 2 star them. One half I can use Firefly no problem, but second half I have no idea what to do. I dont have Black Swan so my Kafka is pretty much useless, I dont have Acheron, I dont have Jade or Himeko, and all my other well built characters just dont work well/dont do enough damage in DOT PF. But hey, its only like half a pull Im missing out on.
even as a dot enjoyer with a 6cost dot comp, it kinda feels lackluster nowadays. and hoyo's try to make it seem good again with dedicated blessings in pf isn't good either since it feels artificial for dot comp owners and annoying for non dot comp owners. they definitely have to change something about the archetype, otherwise it will just die out.
I have Kafka, BS, Huohuo, E6 Guinefen and E6 Sampo and still I can barely get 45,000 points in the last stage. I don't know if it's because I don't have Signature LCs or Eidolons but you would expect that even without these things I would be able to deal with a PF made for DoTs, but the "buffs" of this PF are CRAP! ESPECIALLY the one that advances enemies, how the hell is that going to help when it only serves to give enemies more turns!
For context, I'm still a lost lamb in HSR. I dont even understand the mechanics in MoC sometimes 😂. So I dived onto PF, reading DOT, and thought its Kafka + BS time! Both I pulled for from their last rerun. And it didnt work... Now, I have Acheron E0S1 with JQ, Pela and Aventurine... still didnt work. IK skill issue but it cant be this bad that I can't get that last zamn star. I replaced Pela with BS - dusted Yanqing and he still owes me 2 cycles. It's a weird but fascinating experience for me.
First time coming across the "cost" terminology. Interesting way to benchmark investment against results. I cleared this pf barely (~10-15 resets using) First half E0S1 ruan mei Harmony trailblaze E2 Gallagher E0S0 himeko (Cost 2) Second half E0S0 adventurine E0S0 robin E0S1 clara E0S0 kafka (Cost 3) I wonder how mihoyo internally would calculate the cost of pulling the featured banner character to be successful in clearing content. Also is ot wierd that this pure fiction period they are not even featuring any dot units in the banners (not in 2.7 either if leaks are to be believed)
Maybe we should take it as a good sign? They completely forgot about DoT, maybe NOW after receiving complaints they'll finally remember?? Fingers crossed, would be nice Personal experience - I couldn't clear the previous one, was capped at 25k max both sides due to lacking good supports, cleared this one easily, my humanity is restored now lol
I mean the real main issue is dot not getting any character since 2.0. the fox boy is not a real dot charcater, they changed that so his lc can not be used on pela. Obviously it will not perform as well as the new teams where you have a 4 character synergy with bran new toys
I ran Lingsha + Himeko superbreak first side and Dotcheron second side, with a high score of 72k(Only Acheron has sig lc). First side got stalled due to enemies without fire weakness, and the second side got stalled by too much cc. In terms of a three star clear it wasnt hard, but in terms of max 80k (which I usually do) its probably not possible as I have nobody who can deal with whats stalling me. Personally I think the devs are getting a little revenge on everybody that said PF is too easy, dot sucks, or Lingsha/erudtion units in general arent worth it. This PF is literally the counter to all of these complaints wrapped up in one, which might be a bit overboard.
It's just nonsense that they've not added a new DoT support since giving us Black Swan - there simply isn't a full team for the archetype yet. When that happens, DoT will be better. The PF wasn't terrible because of DoT; it's because of the horrendously bloated numbers now also affecting up to date teams.
As a vertical investor I just brute forced it. Easy 40k clear with E0S1 acheron on side 2. And a 35k clear on side 1 No Jade no Argenti No Kafka no Swan needed.
I made a 100. A 100 runs. Max 56k btw. I lost my mind a bit (pulled aventurine yesterday, not because of PF, i thought about it for long time, so with him i think i will clear)
i heavily disagree with DOT being expensive. For break to work you'd ideally want ruanmei, and FUA wants robin with a strong DPS like fei. 1-2 Costs no different than in DOT's case. ult based Acheron teams want lc/e2 with JQ. so on People simply didnt pull DOT because they did not like the characters personally. More chars will just fix this easy by just appealing different fetishes to different people. Moreover the community just has a ingrained hateboner for anything thats not 0 cycling capable to be non meta. DOT by definition is not 0 cycle. Further exaggerating the issue I'm loving how the HSR main sub were up in arms the moment they could not use their auto friendly meta DPS for the 4th patch in a row
I have good characters, but the only DoT character that I have is Guinaifen ☠️ It's crazy how this PF requires you to have Kafka and Black Swan, considering that not everyone has them and wants to pull for them at all
was fine ( last banner I pulled was Firefly E0) always managed to 3 star barely.but current Pf...nomatter which combo I cant even get 50k lol (No Kafka).Tried building Sampo with Gui but nope damage still low
Are people actually complaining about this PF? I have 2 accounts and I cleared with all possible archetypes: DoT, break, FuA, hypercarry. The blessings are good enough for meta chars to work anyway.
the best part about this phase was the action advance that let you do funny aventurine shenanigans. other than that, this was somehow both the most disappointing and challenging PF of all time (and this PF is known for being both)
Did you only do calcs for the first half? Or is it combined over both? The second half is more interesting because that's where the DoT team is meant to be used. It would be interesting to see how non-DoT teams stack up against them there specifically. First half is superbreak central, Rappa, Firefly and Himeko (Lingsha/Galla sustain) specifically. More people will have built a superbreak team so I'm pretty confident most people are suffering on the second half.
I tried 3 cost E1 FFs0, Ruan Mei DDD, HMC DDD and Gallagher 1st half....and tried to reach 3100. And my 2nd half is Fu Xuan with burn DOT lc, E6 Sampo, E0 Black Swan, DOT Herta LC and E0S1 Acheron, to reach 6100. (Those Imprison CC elites are pieces of sh-)
I would imagine they bring back DoT, but when that will be? Doesn’t seem soon. Poor DoT forgotten for now aside from being the laughing stock of the community aside from some of their attractiveness. 😢
On my f2p account i pulled for kafka as a kinda joke back in 1.2 struggeled alot due to it ever since. Tried to build up my account recently again without going for the same units as my main got yunli got feixiao then i made the horrible mistake of going for black swan for my sidelined kafka instead of robin for my feixiao whos on life support now with just m7 and topaz. thaught maybe at least it helps with PF and at least it gets 30k in a PF centered around it yay ..... When i look at my main its acheron still being my Lifeline for PF ever since 2.1 not to speak about Hoyos Obsession with the cup robot and the red bugs to really drive home the fuck you for clara and yunli players
I run Sustianless FF break team and replaced gallagher to Himeko to squeeze more pounts. My Acheron did the heavy lifting tho. It is just weird why we getting DoT buffs now while the 2 units where rerun last patch
Playing DOT with Kafka Sampo is so terrible (in my own experience) because his DOT isn’t like Black Swan or Jiaoqiu so the team becomes clunky, unfortunately I lost twice on black swan banners so I guess the archetype rejects me
I completed Sampo's E6 pulling from the Aventurine banner, his Ult is still the only one that can afflict DoT vulnerability to multiple targets at once. So in theory if you had either JQ or Swan and Sampo on the same team you could increase the DMG enough to kill
@@angeldiaz762 I know I mean that you NEED to reapply his DOT which is terrible in multi wave content like pure fiction, Swan and Jiaoqiu don’t have this issue
@@yubaa I'm pointing out the fact that waveman said that the devs consider PF to be on the same level as MOC and why MOC is the bias used when rating characters. This is exactly the reason...
That's because Luka is a break character before a DoT character, he applies Break bleeds then can force them with his EBA, his skill Bleed pales in comparison as it caps based on his own Atk stat when Bleed itself scales with Max enemy HP meaning he'd have to have well over 10k Atk to even match a good Break bleed.
Why does the acheron team have signature aventurine? Such a waste of 2 cost, could be jiaoqiu instead and just use gallagher with the wind dot on hit power and generate WAY more stacks and damage
@ yeah thats true for sure lol. I think dot needs a dedicated abundance or preservation that forces enemy turns while healing/shielding the team according to dot ticks.
Effect Res is the worst stat. Atleast EHR has a soft cap of 67% for those "100% base chances". And some DPSes have those Hitrate to Dmg%/Atk% converter traces. (Wish Silver Wolf had this too)
@@JMike-bq6rl Effect res is still useful against those CC enemies where as Ehr is completely useless imagine if every nihility doesnt need ehr like gallagher aven or even lingsha who has debuff yet they need 0 ehr its a completely useless stat that shackles nihility as a whole where as harmony doesnt have those "60% base chance to advance unit"
@@irena4929 It's the game's way of unnecessarily "Diluting the Stats" to roll into this game. If only Aggro Values are "fixed", like Preservation or Destruction gets priority and attacked first. No more bullsheet "Base/Fixed chance RNG or Hitrate/Effect res Caps to effectively land or resist something.
Realistically the way to buff DoT is to buff Kafka, current Kafka's personal damage is too low to really be considered that strong and her focus is more on retriggering ally DoT damage. The best way to do this would be through system changes, make Shock able to crit so Kafka can actually make use of more than 2 stats (Atk/Spd, EHR is not needed), it also wouldn't really break anything as there are a total of 2 characters that apply Shock naturally and Break Shock would still scale with Break Effect. This couldn't really be abused with characters like Acheron or Jing Yuan since the only Shock they can apply is through Breaking and BE on them is a joke. Also this would just be a buff to Serval as well and Serval deserves it :)
I love the idea of Shock being able to crit. Helps make the different elements feel more distinct. Burn is the most consistent straight up, bleed scales with hp, wind sheer stacks, so shock needs something too.
@ Yeah shock feels very generic, it’s just a DoT with no added effects unlike Bleed or Wind Shear. Even both burn nihility characters have a debuff that ties into their burn with Firekiss and Ashen Roast shredding increasing the damage the enemies take. Shock has nothing, I guess could say both Shock characters can forcefully trigger their own Shock but what does that really do for Serval? Kafka sure it’s nice, but the modifier is so low she relies on others DoT to do any meaningful damage. So if Shock could crit, it would both buff Serval and Kafka’s performance.
they decided to make DoT content and forgot that they haven't added anything to actually make DoT good again
pf blessing: DoT
weaknesses: quantum, ice, imaginary 🗿
it does not have ice and quantum 🗿
@@fluttersyy stage 3
@@nasipadang1dastage three is easy no one cares about it
@@jp-dx6829 i care
@@jp-dx6829 I care as well.
DoT is just that one dude at the party that isn’t having fun, but doesn’t want to leave and tries to engage (very bad at it)
oh no wonder I like DoT 😂
this makes no sense but its really funny
@@solarenity Are you rude by any chance.
i feel called out
While I agree DoT has issues, I think the main issues IS DoT PF lineup.
Just a quick summary.
- big HP increase.
- 1st side has puppets that gives no energy and bugs that don't attack, and when they do they inflict outrage, so your counter units kind of struggle here without a good cleanser/ Aventurine. DoT puppets synergy makes it so you literally cannot do first side sustainless unless you have an insanely strong team.
- 2nd side has lots of CC, SPD debuffs, Bronya delays a ton with one of her attacks, second wave can also stall you with robots that heal and shield themselves
- all the aforementioned lineup enemy synergies are magnified by a hundred by you advancing enemies that you generally would never want to advance, not even as a DoT team.
- cacophony buffs : let's be real, the DoT one is good, but every other buff is pathetic this time around.
even if you put shatter and ultimate buffs instead of DoT on this lineup, a lot of people would still struggle here.
The thing that makes sustainless runs almost impossible is the advance per attack mechanic. Unless you're killing the enemies in one shot, a sustain character is a must.
The "DoT" buff is actually Acheron buff (guaranteed debuff per attack and action advancing enemies). Which makes sense since it's Acheron's rerun, not Kafka's or BS'.
real, i used to clear dot pf with either clara or yunli, but the damn dot robot is very annoying. I also needed to save FF for the bronya side, so the pf itself is a nightmare to clear
i didnt want to specify pf "the fight" specifically, because last time it happened it didnt have these mechanics. the worst part last time was the running trotter, and the puppets which was much more manageable.
this is a great analysis though.
This is actually a good example of hsr powercreep: eniemies got beefier and beefier meanwhile DOT has had almost no upgrades whatsover
Power creep refers to the situation where new content or features make older ones obsolete or irrelevant, creating an imbalance and a loss of diversity in the game.
Now, what does the enemy have to do with your characters when it comes to power creep? You can’t power creep anyone by making the enemies stronger. Only when you release a new character that does it better than the older one.
Previous dot PF had a buff that would spred dot upon enemy's death, which helped significantly with it's main problem - application. Current PF doesn't have that. Also, funny thing: in the current dot I have Kafka (whom I didn't have before), and... She is performing worse than all of my other PF units.
yeah same. I didn't have enough to get Swan (mainly bc I wanted Sunday and had some minor reservations), so my Kafka is basically half the character she's supposed to be even with Sampo....we need more accessible dot options...
Lmao same. Tried my new Kafka in the current pf and it felt so terrible. Couldn't afford to pull Black Swan so ig she'll basically remain handicapped if we get no DoT units for the forseeable future. It's sad because I thought I could finally use her for a stage that's supposed to make her shine. Ended up clearing with Clara + Herta + Aventurine + Robin team instead lmao
@ I’m still struggling to create a team for the second half (this is what I get for having reservations about Jade I suppose. Clara why do you avoid me…). I might give it more attempts in 2.7 with JY.
@@animalpetdrakenstar6598 wish you the best! I've seen some clears with Jingyuan and Blade, so you could try them with like Herta and see how it goes. Lost my 50/50 on Jade myself, so I don't have her either :"D Also, if you didn't know already, Hoyolab app has Lineup Assistance so you could take a look into that to see how players are clearing pf with similar character rosters like you, it's pretty helpful!
the problem is that the 4 star dots aren't able to capitalize on the buffs in a really meaningful way. Imagine if Sampo or Guinaifen could effectively be on par with "Herta" as a PF cleared in dot rotation, but they simply aren't
It would probably help if there was a DoT 5 star on standard.
availability of dot units is the #1 problem, kafka and bs are downright necessary and the 4 stars suck so hard you dont have a real alternative, you only have 6 dot units in the entire game. the other meta archetypes are completely unlike this and dont have this strict cost.
@@waveman047 no because how are we going into 3.x with no sign of a f2p DoT detonater
@@reshmin1760 we kinda already have 2 F2P DoT detonators in Gui and Sampo being able to proc fire and wind DoTs, and releasing 4* Kafka would make no sense
It would. Just lowet detonate damage alone would be nice then having it scale to a bit worse than e0 kaf at e6 @@CraX_Ez
@@CraX_Ez isn't Sampo's DoT activation Locked behind Eidolons?
oh look who would've thought tying an entire archetype to one limited unit would have dire consequences. plus hoyo forgot about dot and even if they did add dot support right now, kafka numbers are so low that she cant' keep up with modern day units' dmg.
I will never forgive them for putting Kafka and Black Swan on the same banner. No matter who you choose, you’re missing a vital part!
I got both and skipped faexio and never regretted it 😂😂😂😂
@@seifeldeensameh6661 LOL me except i got kafkas lc
I got extremely lucky and pulled Feixiao, Kafka and Black Swan in 170 warps. Then I kept saving and today pulled Aventurine.
@iNovak-HSR Nice 👍
"Choose" huh
This PF was kind of hard even if I have DoT units. The DoT just wasn't enough to one-shot the smaller mobs which would waste you a turn and that goes a long way. I really hope this was a sign that DoT needs a new character who can buff most DoT units.
nahh it is a skill issue in ur part rlly
What dot units you have? I have full dot team for stage 2 and doing fine.
@@Rainin.7 isn’t there 4 stages? Stage 2 is easy
Also most people don't mention this but DOT units other than Black swan and Jiaoqiu(for Acheron), aren't even good for Pure fiction. Like All the other DOT units have to attack to apply their DOT, and you really want ways to attack outside of your turn/gain more turns with follow ups, AOE ults or mechanics like Seele's Resurgence. For example Kafka, the unit who is supposed to embody DOT, is not good at base in PF, you need her LC because her only way to apply a DOT without LC is her Follow up(which is single target)and her Ultimate, which clears all enemies but so can a ton of other characters. I actually have friends who tried to split up Kafka on one side and Black swan on the other and their Kafka side always struggled. Realistically it isn't even a DOT Pure fiction, it's a Black swan and Jiaoqiu+Acheron Pure fiction.
And tbh you don't even want to advance certain enemies in this lineup(the DOT robot takes half yr HP, the bug stuns yr team, bronya delays and cleanses the DOTs, and the traffic light shields up). Like if you just showed me the lineup of enemies, I would say it's an anti DOT Pure fiction.
Jiaoqui is pretty good at pf, since his debuffs are linked on the field and not on his turn
I saw this PF was dot based and immediately ignored it instantly in favor of just using super break and Acheron teams.
All I can say is my love for Jiaoqiu (E2) really paid off this time around. He is the gift that keeps giving.
P1: Jiaoqiu, Gallagher, Asta, Guinaifen
P2: Sampo, Luocha, Black Swan, Serval
We need a harmony unit that enables every teamate to detonate DOTs at like 40% scalling on every attack and then have follow ups like Kafka.
And a physical shielder that applies bleed and synergise with trend so we can have all types of dots in the team.
The problem is that the current dot does so little damage. I believe that while detonation is important, the only real ways dot can improve is:
A. If we get better dot units than Kafka/Black Swan, although powercreep would only be a temporary solution as it doesn't fix any of DOT's flaws.
B. Hoyo gives a support designed to fix the flaws mentioned in the video, like a detonater support you suggested or a support that can convert a unit's attack into additional DOT damage.
C. If hoyo allows introduces another multiplier that DOT Damage can scale off of. Like a hypothetical 'DOT damage%'. This could be a relic mainstat or substat, or supports could just give the stat to units.
@@shimmienshakeIf you actually look at the multipliers on black swan's arcana, you'll see that damage isn't the problem. It's actually enabling that damage.
Introducing more sources of DoT detonation as well as a powerful dedicated DoT buffer would help the strategy a ton. DoT is one of the few team comps that is simply incomplete. DoT doesn't have a dedicated sustain or a dedicated buffer as of yet.
This isn't DOT PF, this is Acheron and Jiaoqiu PF lol.
I came up with a "four star Kafka paradox" in my head the other day, and it basically suggests, that a 4⭐detonator Nihility carry would solve the DoT problem for all players and especially F2P, but then the problem with that is that it challenges the dev team to make this character simultaneously _viable_ in current content, but also _worse_ than Kafka and Acheron - and this task would be next to impossible to pull off with the game mechanics that we have.
The other thing I noticed, is that Sampo and Guinaifen, and I guess Hook, are the only viable DoT users on the 4⭐ roster and as such, with no NEW ones available, it's easy to see how it kinda became forgotten. Ordinary weakness break of Imaginary, Ice, and Quantum has no DoT infliction, but if they developed a new character of those elements with unique DoT's to inflict of those elements, it could sell some more interest in the archetype. Also, I think some role compression to make DPSes that can be DoT users but also double as a crit DPS or something in order to make them compatible with more team comps. I mean, technically Jiaoqiu's already a role-compression in that his ashen roast was primarily made for Acheron but it can also double as a DoT applicator if you build him with the same relic sets as the DoT roster.
The "DoT buff" is actually Acheron buff.
This PF wouldn't have been so tough if hoyo gave us more dot units to work with in the past year. And we really need more dot focused supports like one that applies the "Suspicion" debuff from Sim universe or one that spreads the stacks to more enemies just so we have more utility for the dot core.
Its so strange to me that they are making this PF all about DOT when Rappa just released. I know they do have a side that is imaginary weak plus a break buff and all but DOT is obviously the main focus here. DOT has barely been given anything since Black Swan came out, and had basically nothing consistent even before her. JQ doesn't count, he's a debuffer with a side of burn. There still isn't a dedicated DOT buffer who isnt also a damage dealer. We need a character who has a power budget entirely dedicated to DOT buffing effects. Hoyo neglecting to give DOT any support for what is getting close to a year now wouldnt really be a bad thing if they didnt insist upon its existence so much. These are the kinda PF stages that would be added if a new DOT character got released and even then its still ridiculous due to the cost of entry DOT demands. We need a new DOT 4 star that is actually good, like the more recent 4 stars have been, and a new 5 star. But then again, the cost issue appears again.
Ngl we kinda need a 2nd DOT trigger one that triggers all dot everytime the said character's dot triggers. or a dot support something like suspicion that could increase dot damage that also has like a nahida c2 thing where dots can crit. Ruan mei or Robin probably ain't cutting it anymore. Even though robin leads to bigger dot numbers and those breaks from ruan mei can be something, but dot seriously really needs a dedicated support.
Idk if removing kafka or swan can be ideal. Since kafka and swan somewhat need each other to be good. Even though swan can be used outside of dot like acheron for an example.
I pulled for black swan on her last rerun but not for Kafka (I got Robin instead) just because the last DoT PF was so miserable I wanted to have her in case it would ever come back. Lo and behold, my Acheron+BSwan+Guinaifen team performed worse than my e2 Firefly break team and my Jade+Herta team in a season dedicated to shill DoT. I felt kinda bitter to be honest lmao
Not a hot take at all, but thanks for putting so clearly the pain points of DoT units and teams. I do feel like your usage of break teams was a bit of a ineffective argument though. "Every team can make use of break" is true, but I think you could've been more nuanced by using follow-up teams instead.
You can reinforce your point that not every team can utilise follow-up blessings, but there are more than enough units that the blessings are accessible to more people. Great vid, just being That Person who nitpicks so your arguments become more airtight.
Looking forward to the next one :)
I think your points about the issues of the DoT can be traced back to one key issue when put into a broader perspective.
DoT is a mechanic introduced in 1.0, just like Break. Guess which on got a major upgrade and became a more in depth mechanic. All the while, HP powercreep has been happening with the post game content. DoT got a big upgrade with Kafka back in 1.2 and… well, the mechanic got its best dmg dealer in Black Swan in 2.0 and that’s about it. So if it feels like DoT as a mechanic is something you expect out of 1.x, that’s because it is. Honestly, if it weren’t for the fact that there are post game content that focus on DoT, I imagine many people wouldn’t worry so much about the archetype since people tend to move on to one meta to the next in gacha games. And yet, the HSR team certainly… makes some decisions sometimes. lol
But considering what they did with Break, they may possibly do something with DoT like they did with Break in the future, where they essentially “redesign” the archtype by introducing new mechanics. But we’ll have to see.
Mind you, I still find DoT a very fun mechanic, so it’s not like all of this bothers me that much.
But I would like the HSR team to do something with it eventually since there’s not a lot you can do when you don’t have Kafka. lol
You would have to wait till like 4.x patch, 3.x ain't for dot (again)
For any Acheron user, take the boost that applies wind dot on any attack then take follow-up characters. Free ult every 5 seconds. Herta, Himeko, Aventurine and Clara are probably the best for this strat.
Also jade, I always forget she exists lol
Dot hurts when its on the enemies side, the guy that pours wine hurts. also the bug that charges up, when hit it advanced forward and explodes
All I know that when I see the DoT buffs with annoying enemies I have to put effort into clearing it with my teams. Which its great by me, at last I can think a bit.
This is one of those moments where I am grateful for my privilege of having E6S1 Kafka. (Saved for Kafka since the start of the game, finished her on her 1.5 rerun.)
I’ve essentially built my account around DoT, so I have all of the core pieces (bar HuoHuo, she ran at bad times for me… but Lingsha my beloved has righted all of my wrongs) and I do not struggle with DoT (or really any content in this game for that matter outside of ONE AS we have had so far).
That all being said, I 100% agree that DoT needs help, and that most of its problems come from generalized neglect of the archetype in favor of heavily pushing break and followup in the 2.0 era of the game.
Swan was great, but the archetype needs more. I don’t think Jiaoqiu is what DoT is looking for. DoT needs support that isn’t locked behind an E1/E2 of a limited 5star. HuoHuo is fine, but she is more of an “incidental synergy” pick instead of a DoT support.
DoT really should take inspiration from SU in designing support characters for DoT, particularly of the Harmony/Abundance/Preservation kind.
Suspicion increasing DoT damage? Nice
Applying a status that lets DoT’s crit such as with Sin Thirster? Could be nice.
More characters that detonate DoT’s like Kafka? As long as they aren’t strictly better than E6 Kafka (#BIAS 😂)
Making actual DoT’s a little more utilitarian than they currently are? That would be great.
There’s plenty that can be done I feel. Hoyo just needs to start throwing them a bone.
Hopefully the leaks (take this with a grain of salt) suggesting the potential of a rising Nihility meta post 3.3-3.4 will mean good things coming to the Direction of DoT. Fingers crossed. 🙏
Crit dot? Now we talking 😈
@@Rainin.7i have a feeling dots can crit would be locked behind an eidolon.
I still don't have a single 5-star Erudition (not even Himeko), so DoT PF actually worked well for me. I have my brute force Super-Break team and Kafka/Swan. Very happy that I picked up the DoT core back in 1.6/2.0.
i think its so funny when they do dot PF. The two times they have done it now are the only two times i've cleared it (i dont have himeko)
especially with imaginary weakness but even without, it's rappa pf, the enemies getting advanced by getting hit unbreaks them sooner so she can break them again and get more stacks for more damage and toughness reduction on each enhanced basic
To “fix” the DoT archetype, I think they need to do what they did for break/FUA which is create a good F2P option for the archetype that is accessible to everyone. Break has HMC and FUA has Hunt March 7th. They need to stop being so stingy with DoT triggers because the only good one is Kafka and Ig Sampo but his is edionlon locked, for wind shear only, and the trigger multipler isn’t that high. Then they need to introduce a new Dot character( DPS/Support/Sustain). Jiaoqiu could have been the Archeron and DoT support which in my opinion, he is but a 180% DoT multipler isn’t good enough. It should have been 240% or something, it wouldn’t have been game breaking. Then when we have a full DoT team of Dot DPS (Swan), DoT Retrigger (Kafka), DoT Suppert (New Character), and DoT Sustain (New Character, I don’t think HuoHuo is the DoT sustain, it just happens to work with the team), we could be good.
fwiw Gui can trigger all Arcana stacks for BS when they have Epiphany
But ya DoT needs help. Proper Support, proper Sustain, new Relics maybe even. Prisoner is strong, but getting older and very generic. Also Nihility Herta Cone is disappointing.
@ Yeah she can but the triggers are so unoften for GUI it barely matters. Maybe Dot could get a new Planer set even though glamoth is really good for them
Why do people hate it I like watching the enemies die as soon as they spawn in
They hate because it's made dirty.
Only Kafka activate and her damage is bad and lacks AoE even for PF, Black Swan does nothing than buffing and increasing arcana too
Also, Kafka can't even stack right Arcana stack by her own in the US. It's lackluster in MoC and APOC and PF
@mauriciorosademoraes9209 black swan is the reason they die as soon as they enter the field wym
Also what are you talking about she lacks aoe? Brother I don't think you know enough about the game to pretend to have strong opinions
@mauriciorosademoraes9209 is this AI
@@Outerringfuelgod Agressive hmm? Then i will show you that i know what i'm talking about.
1. Lacks AoE:
Arcana to be Blast Type damage needs at least 3 stacks which without Kafka's ultimate and S1 is impossible in 5 target scenario, only 2 enemies will have blast type DoT damage because Kafka's skill is single target and Follow-up. The strength of Kafka is getting a lot of energy but this doesn't change her nature incapable state of abusing Black Swan AoE power with mastery. Also, Black Swan can spread stacks of arcana in Blast Type but this needs enemies to attack which can be a pain because New enemies normally start with high action value, attacking before Kafka's ultimate or follow-up etc... and then the act much after
2. Kafks can't stack Arcana
Black Swan have 50 stacks of Arcana, Kafka overall at max can get 25 after 1,5 cycle in MoC (EDIT: IN ONE ENEMY)and obvious is impossible in PF and APOC she can't do high damage because of this, needing much turns to stack arcana and then loses it which makes DoT niche in APOC. In US it's funny because without the universal DoT procs buffs have the same problem and even with the buffs stills pretty slow to get 50, at least you can maintain Black Swan's ultimate to get this.
Any DoT player must wait until ~3.2-3.3 and after for new DoT toys.
I heard there will be a dot healer but tbh, a healer ain't saving us
My heart does hurt for the people that don't have Kafka or Swan, but as someone who's had both ever since Swan... I've been having a great time this whole time. They've been my default for SimUni and daily farming ever since.
Same. They also pair well with Acheron. In addition, the numbers from the simulation do not match my experience. In my experience, DoT with Acheron is on par with Erudition units in PF. I haven't used Erudition units in the last 3 PFs, and the DoT team genuinely did better than an E3S1 Firefly backed by all kinds of Break units with investment. Then again, all were on auto.
For context, this is E0S1 BS, E0S0 Kafka with S5 GNSW, E0S1 Acheron, and E0S0 Fu Xuan with S5 Trend. You can probably replace GNSW with the Herta Shop Nihility cone. I'm just lazy.
an e3s1 firefly on auto is expected, you could minmax her to higher levels off auto (free turn units are really bad with it, especially with break) and get better performance
Just use Serval. Also JQ basically makes the Acheron team DoT PF compatible.
3:00 And it isn't even the strongest PF team. If we were comparing with Rappa SuperBreak instead of Firefly SuperBreak, the diference to DoT team would be even more obvious.
Hopefully this Pure Fiction still has a day or two left after Fugue comes out, because I used Break Himeko (Topaz/Himeko/HTB/Gallagher) in first phase and I think Fugue may be a better outlet for that than Topaz.
Aside from that, I used Kafka/Sampo/Rappa/Ruan Mei in phase two and got a solid ~3.3k points. It's really first phase that's holding me back.
Another thing that annoys me is that the default dot effects don't do anything exciting except for Bleed. And if you get any of these by breaking, only bleed will actually hurt, even if you use someone like Firefly with 400+ BE to break. You'd think DoT would benefit from this mechanic but they won't unless they make Erudition Boothill.
Back to my point though, Burn and Shock just deal damage, and Wind Shear can be stacked and it'll deal more damage if you do. And, well, somehow Entanglement and Freeze don't count so rip.
Me being extremely glad I pulled for Kafka and Swan on their release banners at this point
In this PF firefly and lingsha saved my first side, without them I would have been cooked
In other news my 50/50 100% win rate continutes and I have basically completed the IPC team as a f2p.
E0S1 Topaz
E0S1 Robin
E0S1 Aventurine
and my free Ratio from 6 months ago (when I started playing) with stellar sea.
I'm having a good time :3
Ayo gz my dude
should probably gone have e1 robin over s1
Got 60k with a break ff himeko and feixiao herta aventurine fua, the dmg dealth reduction is good on break sustainless and the action forward makes stacking aventurine fua easier thus giving feixiao more ult stack
Honestly I also feel like the enemy advance mechanic this time around really doesn't help dot much either. As you said, any dot team other than Kafka Swan sucks, but even then, with those two you want to try and build Arcana stacks on enemies to actually be able to kill them quickly enough. But the advance most of the time just resets your stacks before you could get anywhere. Especially when enemies start spawning in, a lot of the time I'd have to watch a painful 1 stack arcana go off that didn't even have its AoE yet,, (maybe this is a skill issue idk but it did annoy me).
And on that note: without her signature LC, kafka's uptime is abysmal in PF. She can only apply shock through ult (which usually kills every enemy on field anyways) or through follow ups, which are single target. This means a lot of the time when the (turn advanced) enemies act, they won't even have one of the two important sources of damage applied..
Hoyo remembered that people actually like Kafka and decided to put out DoT buff in this PF (It's still pretty bad)
I love seeing enemies die if cancer. Been a dot main since the early days when i mained Serval
I don’t have any good dot characters or Acheron, the second half was hard af for me, but surprisingly Clara E0 managed to clear it
hell I have e0s0 kafka and e0s1 black swan and it was still a drag to get through, not that it was hard it just felt very meh idk dot is in dire need of a new character that makes it not feel as bad as it does rn
hopefully nihility trailblazer comes out soonish that can either 1: gives an inf stacking debuff making enemies take more DoT damage every time they take a DoT and/or 2: increases DoT damage of allies whenever the ally's dot is triggered, would also be nice if the nihility trailblazer could also add a dot or trigger dots.
Next Trailblazer is unfortunately Remembrance Quantum.
Pulling DoT units feels like a punishment more and more as days pass 😢😢
DOT PF are always so rough for me, I can barely 2 star them. One half I can use Firefly no problem, but second half I have no idea what to do. I dont have Black Swan so my Kafka is pretty much useless, I dont have Acheron, I dont have Jade or Himeko, and all my other well built characters just dont work well/dont do enough damage in DOT PF. But hey, its only like half a pull Im missing out on.
kafka eidolon is buffing her and team dot even more, she has the best eidolon for dot team
even as a dot enjoyer with a 6cost dot comp, it kinda feels lackluster nowadays. and hoyo's try to make it seem good again with dedicated blessings in pf isn't good either since it feels artificial for dot comp owners and annoying for non dot comp owners. they definitely have to change something about the archetype, otherwise it will just die out.
I have Kafka, BS, Huohuo, E6 Guinefen and E6 Sampo and still I can barely get 45,000 points in the last stage.
I don't know if it's because I don't have Signature LCs or Eidolons but you would expect that even without these things I would be able to deal with a PF made for DoTs, but the "buffs" of this PF are CRAP! ESPECIALLY the one that advances enemies, how the hell is that going to help when it only serves to give enemies more turns!
Agreed. I guess the idea was that it lets the enemies take DOT more often, but with the DOT puppets and crowd control swarm bugs it's a nightmare.
Next pure fiction only eruditon units will be viable.
They are making PF more restrictive to keep selling more eruditon units.
For context, I'm still a lost lamb in HSR. I dont even understand the mechanics in MoC sometimes 😂. So I dived onto PF, reading DOT, and thought its Kafka + BS time! Both I pulled for from their last rerun. And it didnt work...
Now, I have Acheron E0S1 with JQ, Pela and Aventurine... still didnt work. IK skill issue but it cant be this bad that I can't get that last zamn star. I replaced Pela with BS - dusted Yanqing and he still owes me 2 cycles. It's a weird but fascinating experience for me.
DOT based PFs Action advancing enemies can be very abuseable by units like Yunli and Clara,
First time coming across the "cost" terminology. Interesting way to benchmark investment against results.
I cleared this pf barely (~10-15 resets using)
First half
E0S1 ruan mei
Harmony trailblaze
E2 Gallagher
E0S0 himeko
(Cost 2)
Second half
E0S0 adventurine
E0S0 robin
E0S1 clara
E0S0 kafka
(Cost 3)
I wonder how mihoyo internally would calculate the cost of pulling the featured banner character to be successful in clearing content.
Also is ot wierd that this pure fiction period they are not even featuring any dot units in the banners (not in 2.7 either if leaks are to be believed)
Maybe we should take it as a good sign? They completely forgot about DoT, maybe NOW after receiving complaints they'll finally remember?? Fingers crossed, would be nice
Personal experience - I couldn't clear the previous one, was capped at 25k max both sides due to lacking good supports, cleared this one easily, my humanity is restored now lol
To the people that hate DoT PF, brother this is the only way DoT is good. So shut up meta slave and let us be happy.
DoT pf
Me:Debuffs for acheron lets goo
I mean the real main issue is dot not getting any character since 2.0. the fox boy is not a real dot charcater, they changed that so his lc can not be used on pela. Obviously it will not perform as well as the new teams where you have a 4 character synergy with bran new toys
I ran Lingsha + Himeko superbreak first side and Dotcheron second side, with a high score of 72k(Only Acheron has sig lc). First side got stalled due to enemies without fire weakness, and the second side got stalled by too much cc. In terms of a three star clear it wasnt hard, but in terms of max 80k (which I usually do) its probably not possible as I have nobody who can deal with whats stalling me. Personally I think the devs are getting a little revenge on everybody that said PF is too easy, dot sucks, or Lingsha/erudtion units in general arent worth it. This PF is literally the counter to all of these complaints wrapped up in one, which might be a bit overboard.
It's just nonsense that they've not added a new DoT support since giving us Black Swan - there simply isn't a full team for the archetype yet. When that happens, DoT will be better.
The PF wasn't terrible because of DoT; it's because of the horrendously bloated numbers now also affecting up to date teams.
I had to use my robin and my new e2 aventurine to clean the second half with black swan and kafka
As a vertical investor I just brute forced it.
Easy 40k clear with E0S1 acheron on side 2.
And a 35k clear on side 1
No Jade no Argenti No Kafka no Swan needed.
I made a 100. A 100 runs. Max 56k btw. I lost my mind a bit (pulled aventurine yesterday, not because of PF, i thought about it for long time, so with him i think i will clear)
You know what is funny? When i was doing this PF, i forgor that i have a kafka and didn't use her
Its kinda funny that the dot pf comes out at the same time as a spiral abyss with huge geo shields. hoyo is in an evil mood
i heavily disagree with DOT being expensive. For break to work you'd ideally want ruanmei, and FUA wants robin with a strong DPS like fei. 1-2 Costs no different than in DOT's case. ult based Acheron teams want lc/e2 with JQ. so on
People simply didnt pull DOT because they did not like the characters personally. More chars will just fix this easy by just appealing different fetishes to different people.
Moreover the community just has a ingrained hateboner for anything thats not 0 cycling capable to be non meta. DOT by definition is not 0 cycle. Further exaggerating the issue
I'm loving how the HSR main sub were up in arms the moment they could not use their auto friendly meta DPS for the 4th patch in a row
I have good characters, but the only DoT character that I have is Guinaifen ☠️ It's crazy how this PF requires you to have Kafka and Black Swan, considering that not everyone has them and wants to pull for them at all
Dot PF is back, and coincidentally this was the easiest PF in several patches for me (i dont use dot)
It is nice to see people angry (DoT user here)
/sarcasm
Finally, my Black Swan's E2 comes to the fore once more. Fuck the exploding bugs though.
was fine ( last banner I pulled was Firefly E0) always managed to 3 star barely.but current Pf...nomatter which combo I cant even get 50k lol (No Kafka).Tried building Sampo with Gui but nope damage still low
DoT pure fiction isn't bad, it's just bad for everyone else
Are people actually complaining about this PF? I have 2 accounts and I cleared with all possible archetypes: DoT, break, FuA, hypercarry. The blessings are good enough for meta chars to work anyway.
Unfortunately, I don't have Kafka or Black Swan or Jade or Himeko or Yunli or Acheron or Lingsha or Aventurine, so this was a difficult one for me.
the best part about this phase was the action advance that let you do funny aventurine shenanigans. other than that, this was somehow both the most disappointing and challenging PF of all time (and this PF is known for being both)
Throughout heaven and earth you are the dodging one
i got 80k in stage 3 but i didn't got 60k in stage 4 (Phase 1: yunli & Phase 2: Kafka team)
Did you only do calcs for the first half? Or is it combined over both? The second half is more interesting because that's where the DoT team is meant to be used. It would be interesting to see how non-DoT teams stack up against them there specifically. First half is superbreak central, Rappa, Firefly and Himeko (Lingsha/Galla sustain) specifically. More people will have built a superbreak team so I'm pretty confident most people are suffering on the second half.
The funny thing is that even in the DOT pure fiction BS/Kafka literally isn’t even the best anymore. Hp creep my beloved.
I tried 3 cost E1 FFs0, Ruan Mei DDD, HMC DDD and Gallagher 1st half....and tried to reach 3100.
And my 2nd half is Fu Xuan with burn DOT lc, E6 Sampo, E0 Black Swan, DOT Herta LC and E0S1 Acheron, to reach 6100.
(Those Imprison CC elites are pieces of sh-)
Himeko break one side feixiao herta on the other was my team Full stars herta is Very good with feixiao on pf
Makes me sad cuz they have cute characters
FireflyE1/AcheronE2 - 80k
i did it barely with 60k with firefly himeko / and acheron jiaoqiu i hate dot pf soo much
I would imagine they bring back DoT, but when that will be? Doesn’t seem soon. Poor DoT forgotten for now aside from being the laughing stock of the community aside from some of their attractiveness. 😢
They're making a dot healer to keep them playable at the bare minimum then dip for another year
On my f2p account i pulled for kafka as a kinda joke back in 1.2 struggeled alot due to it ever since. Tried to build up my account recently again without going for the same units as my main got yunli got feixiao then i made the horrible mistake of going for black swan for my sidelined kafka instead of robin for my feixiao whos on life support now with just m7 and topaz. thaught maybe at least it helps with PF and at least it gets 30k in a PF centered around it
yay .....
When i look at my main its acheron still being my Lifeline for PF ever since 2.1
not to speak about Hoyos Obsession with the cup robot and the red bugs to really drive home the fuck you for clara and yunli players
I run Sustianless FF break team and replaced gallagher to Himeko to squeeze more pounts. My Acheron did the heavy lifting tho.
It is just weird why we getting DoT buffs now while the 2 units where rerun last patch
Feels like I’m perpetually stuck at 55k with one exception with 57k. Any suggestions to finally push it over the edge
Playing DOT with Kafka Sampo is so terrible (in my own experience) because his DOT isn’t like Black Swan or Jiaoqiu so the team becomes clunky, unfortunately I lost twice on black swan banners so I guess the archetype rejects me
I completed Sampo's E6 pulling from the Aventurine banner, his Ult is still the only one that can afflict DoT vulnerability to multiple targets at once. So in theory if you had either JQ or Swan and Sampo on the same team you could increase the DMG enough to kill
@@angeldiaz762 I know I mean that you NEED to reapply his DOT which is terrible in multi wave content like pure fiction, Swan and Jiaoqiu don’t have this issue
what are you using for the dmg simulation?
When the follow ups, specifically the counter units benefit more than actual dot units
They want PF to be the same as MOC, but you clear it with the same herta/himeko comp you've been using for a million years. Yeah nah PF is a joke
@@yubaa I'm pointing out the fact that waveman said that the devs consider PF to be on the same level as MOC and why MOC is the bias used when rating characters. This is exactly the reason...
DoT suport when
What is the point of Lingsha in there, she barely improves the team, at least use HH or switch to Gallagher.
Dot multipliers need to be buffed, Luka dot/break hybrid is better than my Kafka and BS ;(
Reason people use luka as break because his bleed is capped.
That's because Luka is a break character before a DoT character, he applies Break bleeds then can force them with his EBA, his skill Bleed pales in comparison as it caps based on his own Atk stat when Bleed itself scales with Max enemy HP meaning he'd have to have well over 10k Atk to even match a good Break bleed.
Why does the acheron team have signature aventurine? Such a waste of 2 cost, could be jiaoqiu instead and just use gallagher with the wind dot on hit power and generate WAY more stacks and damage
it was for an example of how bad i had to gimp acheron for a higher cost dot team to look relevant
@ yeah thats true for sure lol. I think dot needs a dedicated abundance or preservation that forces enemy turns while healing/shielding the team according to dot ticks.
Ehr is the worst stat in the game changed my mind
Effect Res is the worst stat.
Atleast EHR has a soft cap of 67% for those "100% base chances". And some DPSes have those Hitrate to Dmg%/Atk% converter traces.
(Wish Silver Wolf had this too)
@@JMike-bq6rl Effect res is still useful against those CC enemies where as Ehr is completely useless imagine if every nihility doesnt need ehr like gallagher aven or even lingsha who has debuff yet they need 0 ehr its a completely useless stat that shackles nihility as a whole where as harmony doesnt have those "60% base chance to advance unit"
@@irena4929 It's the game's way of unnecessarily "Diluting the Stats" to roll into this game.
If only Aggro Values are "fixed", like Preservation or Destruction gets priority and attacked first.
No more bullsheet "Base/Fixed chance RNG or Hitrate/Effect res Caps to effectively land or resist something.
Realistically the way to buff DoT is to buff Kafka, current Kafka's personal damage is too low to really be considered that strong and her focus is more on retriggering ally DoT damage.
The best way to do this would be through system changes, make Shock able to crit so Kafka can actually make use of more than 2 stats (Atk/Spd, EHR is not needed), it also wouldn't really break anything as there are a total of 2 characters that apply Shock naturally and Break Shock would still scale with Break Effect. This couldn't really be abused with characters like Acheron or Jing Yuan since the only Shock they can apply is through Breaking and BE on them is a joke.
Also this would just be a buff to Serval as well and Serval deserves it :)
I love the idea of Shock being able to crit. Helps make the different elements feel more distinct. Burn is the most consistent straight up, bleed scales with hp, wind sheer stacks, so shock needs something too.
@ Yeah shock feels very generic, it’s just a DoT with no added effects unlike Bleed or Wind Shear. Even both burn nihility characters have a debuff that ties into their burn with Firekiss and Ashen Roast shredding increasing the damage the enemies take. Shock has nothing, I guess could say both Shock characters can forcefully trigger their own Shock but what does that really do for Serval? Kafka sure it’s nice, but the modifier is so low she relies on others DoT to do any meaningful damage. So if Shock could crit, it would both buff Serval and Kafka’s performance.