@@TheRealVranesh but don’t forget drs. They didn’t have it or the slicks. They would be stupid fast that way. They also had tcs which is why they were so fast
I couldn't agree more - I think it's just lazy. Please spend a little effort to get F1 footage, it's what we want to see (and should be what you are paid for)
The F2004’s competitors didn’t have in-season testing bans, they were at least allowed to catch up if they could. The fact that none of them did speaks to its dominance vs the Merc.
hybrid era teams were also allowed to catch up but they couldn't Mercedes went through many new regs by the FIA trying to slow them down because horner was whining since 2004.
This video had much more potential tbh... The Race guys will pull off a more solid content than this one. Guys you need to pull up your socks honestly. Sorry if it hurts, but an honest feedback
The F2004 competed in 20 races, all 18 of the 2004 season + the first 2 races in 2005 with slight modifications to it, until they revealed the F2005 with the begining of the european rounds in 2005, thus the F2004 raced in 20 races
I did sound more imposing, no arguments about that. But when you think about it, all that sound is actually loss of power that is being robbed from making the car go faster. Today's power units are impressive in how efficient and powerful they are. I'd have that over loud sound any day. Any day.
And in wins in terms of being a lot lighter. Gets out of corners faster. Merc is faster but takes time to catch up on straights. In slow speed sections it can’t keep up. Give the Ferrari the modern fat slicks and the merc will only be quicker at the end of long straights.
@@ploppyjr2373 You're doing everything you can to disagree with people who prefer the Ferrari. As a personal matter, I don't think there is any doubt which sounds better but there can be no denying which was more technically superior, *ahem* Mercedes *ahem*. That said, the question invariably comes down to which driver is better and that's a question that will be debated until the end of time. I only started watching in 2006/7 during Schumacher's wane in performance but to me it always seemed like with every introduction of technologies that helped the driver go faster, the less involved and involved the driver became in a sport that purports to showcase driving prowess. That all said, I wished more journalists and fans in general would include into the discussion of the era when drivers had little more than 3 pedals and a wheel. Seeing that famous footage of Senna taking the "Esses" at Suzuka while steering with one hand and shifting with the other is truly a sight to behold.
@@OggaDugga Yeah absolutely, no arguments about that. I wish current crop of F1 cars were lighter. Extra weight requires extra energy and generally makes the handling worse. That's something F1 should really look at, together with having cars generate more downforce from ground effect.
@@huyra8019 The MP4/4 is generally regarded as one of the best looking F1 cars, especially if you compare it to the boxy designs the other teams had in 1988. But of course you're entitled to your opinion.
I never understood how the media continued to say no one will beat Michael’s records. I always said Schumacher records aren’t enough someone who started their career early enough with a dominant team can easily catch that. Just look at Seb and Redbull he got half way there in 4 years. Mercedes did the same but was able to continue the pace. It was definitely doable. Also bare in mind Schumacher missed out on 99 season from injuries. The seasons weren’t as long and Ferrari dominated part 2001 all 2002/2004 the rest was closely fought. Mercedes and Lewis have had 2014/2015/2016/2019/2020 2017/2018 were the only true challenges from the competition. Plus you have 20 plus races in a season to help catch up very quickly. Also something cool Michael has technical been involved in 3 teams that went on to win multiple world championships. He did play an important roll in the Mercedes build up phase his with going forward in a team help lure some big names to Mercedes some of who worked with him in Ferrari. So in part Schumacher and those members did help shape Mercedes for the future mainly 2013/2014. Also Michael had to fight for the championships pretty closely in performance in 97 98 99 00. Lewis has the privilege of showing up to Mercedes in 2013 and then one year later they dominate for years. Now I’m not hating on Lewis I congratulate him and I take nothing away from his Achievements. I just like to point some difference is all. If Mercedes had 2 Bottas in the team Vettel could be World Champion 2017/2018. So Lewis has been a top quality driver no doubt. The cars don’t drive themselves. That being said Keep Fighting Michael.
You don't get paid *£40M* a year just to drive fast. This perception that Hamilton jets off to America after a race and only returns to the factory a couple of days before another race weekend is wrong. Every single person who's worked with Lewis in F1 said he's been heavily involved in the technical department since he was a rookie. You state that Michael had to fight closely in the late 90's but fail to mention he never had a teammate capable of/allowed to challenge him. Lewis had at least *3 world champion* teammates taking a good amount of points away and preventing him from winning titles. Alonso, Button and Rosberg. None of Schumacher's teammates in his prime come close to the level of the 3 drivers i mentioned. There's no doubt in anybody's mind that Lewis would be heading towards his 10th championship if he had only been paired with sub par drivers like Michael did at Benetton and Ferrari. But then again, he wouldn't be half the driver he is today.
@DaniMacYo well said. I like that fact you said Micheal has hes records with different teams he also has his records with different engine manufacturers. 3 to be exact. Fangio has hes world titles with four different teams and 4 different engines.
True, but back in the 1970s most drivers would be killed before they could be tremendously successful, and the 1980s were insanely competitive. Therefore, Prost's record of 51 race wins looked impressive at the time, but it took an exceptionally gifted driver just one decade to equal it, even though he generally didn't have the best car at that time. Had Ferrari given him a dominant car in the 1990s, or hadn't he retired as early as 2006, Schumacher would have won well over 100 races. Even if Hamilton significantly raises the bar, his record may be convincingly broken. After all, he was 'already' 22 years old when he made his debut in F1, and he spent 6 years in a good, but not great McLaren.
I don’t get your point about Schumacher fighting for titles from 97 to 00. Did you forget Hamilton was at McLaren and was unlucky to lose the title in 07 won in 08 had a poor car 09 competed closely and at times led in 10 had a poor season in 11 then but for bad luck and unreliability would have won 12. The point is Hamilton also competed at the top in cars that weren’t dominant.
F2004 on slicks and one lap race fuel would probably beat the w11 convincingly in quali. During 2004 they used threaded tyres and qualifying was done with race fuel load
The driver in 2004 still had to manually fine the bite point and release the clutch on lights out, since launch control was banned. Traction control was still legal, but I believe the traction did not work at lower speeds, I believe it was below 60 or 70 mph. So maybe a little bit more assistance, but not much.
@Targa Florio True but how many championships did mercedes have before lewis joined the team? 0. How many wins? 1... Won't even mention Schumacher transferring his entire bennetton championship winning technical team to ferrari with him. So the question has to be asked, what team did michael build exactly?
@@Enzoblueblood lmao from 92 to 96 they won 2 races merc. From 2010 to 2012 while they won less, had many more podiums and had arguably better personnel than Ferrari
@@Bahamuttiamat Michael built that team, he built by bringing people with him. That’s how you build a team in at least some sense. Not to mention it also took those amazing personel like four years of struggle to win a championship.
@@mypenishuge3499 What do you mean? Had Schumacher not broken his leg, he would've won 99(ferrari won the constructors). Lewis walked into mercedes barehanded. Into a team with no history of success other than 55 years prior. It was widely reported as a cash grab and career suicide. All of a sudden, the revisionist like to talk up how "early" mercedes started on the v6hybrid engine, as if the rules weren't released at the same time for Ferrari, renault and the other vying manufacturers. Lewis is as responsible for mercedes success (continued) as schumacher was for ferrari. It comes down to the package, both car and driver. Rubens didn't win much, and neither is bottas. Just look at max in RBR with alex/gasly do jack shit with what is clearly the 2nd best car by a long way, on the grid.
The qmount of power the cars can make is heavily regulated by what the teams are allowed to do. Todays cars and the 2004 cars could have had alot more power if they were allowed. So... what's your point?
2003 was very quick too, but bridgestone tires were inferior to michelin, dont forget that ferrari started 2004 season with a b-spec 2003 car and was very competitve, even won races.
Let's appreciate the input of Ross Brawn had in the success of both these teams. I know he left Mercedes in 2011 but he laid the foundation & people that led them to be ready for the hybrid era and what he did at Ferrari with Michael is legendary, his 2004 France GP 4 stop strategy is a perfect example. If you've never seen that race or are new to F1 I suggest you watch that race.
4:15 FINALLY... Although you only mentioned the tyres, someone finally acknowledging just how bespoke the Ferrari was compared to the field... though that bespoke nature leant itself more specifically to Michaels car over Ruben's as well and extended beyond just tyres into virtually all customer parts.
The W11 is one beautiful work of art. From the black color scheme, the longer wheelbase, to the halo even. It all looks super impressive and fast! No arguments that the 2004 Ferrari sounds better, but then again the engines were vastly different back then. Louder, thirstier, and angrier.
Well... someone could think some people just want to be entertained by a race. You're right, modern F1 really has phenomenal cars when it comes to efficiency, but (as far as I'm concerned) the soul of F1 kinda died with many of the steps towards efficiency. Just (re)watch the races from '98 to '01, which are my personal favorites. The tension of fuel-strategy, real overtaking without any aid, many capable drivers and machinery that could always give you a surprise. And of course the sound... it was glorious.
@@richardhobbs7360 Of course they were less common back then. But I don't really care for overtakes because the driver can press the DRS button on his wheel. And yes, I know there's more to it, but nonetheless it's mostly the DRS which increased overtaking in F1 and I still think that's as boring as having just a few overtakes in a race. And yes, I am biased towards my opinion and what I like when it comes to F1. Why wouldn't I?
@@richardhobbs7360 My opinion isn't "incorrect", because there isn't something like correct or incorrect when it comes to PERSONAL opinions. Different people have different opinions on things based on their preferences. I actually don't get why you seemingly made it your mission to try and convince me that my favorite F1 era shouldn't be MY PERSONAL favorite era. And that it should somehow be wrong to not like modern F1 because "it's so much better"... which btw is YOUR PERSONAL OPINION and will never be mine.
Based on numbers alone, the Mercedes W06 from 2015 is way up there. In my opinion it has the most impressive stats in comparison to its sister cars. The car was the natural evolution from the W05. It was the perfect blend of performance and reliability and it managed to surpass a lot records from its predecessor. True, it has less wins and poles than the Mercedes W07 from 2016 but the W06 shines in other major statistical categories where it beats some of the best F1 cars which were ever built. More importantly, it manages to beat them not only by numbers (which is much easier today due to many more races per season in recent years) but percentage-wise! --> The W06 had a record-breaking 12 1-2 finishes (aka the "perfect result"): that's a rate of 63.2% which beats the former record of the McLaren MP4-4 (10/16 1-2 finishes = 62.5%). --> The W06 had a record-breaking 15 front-row lockouts: that's a rate of roughly 79% which beats the MP4-4 yet again (12/16 front-row lockouts = 75%). -> The W06 scored 703 points out of a possible 817: that's 86% of all points available, eclipsing the tally of the Ferrari F2004 (272/324 points = 84%) -> The W06 scored 32 podiums in 19 races (1 less than the W07 which had 2 more races available): That's a podium rate of 84.2%, beating the Ferrari F2004 yet again (30/36 podiums = 83,4%). The W06 gets rarely mentioned in debates (between the "performance monster" W05 and the "19 wins/20 poles" scoring W07) but it deserves a mention. 2015 was in my opinion the most boring V6 hybrid season. Sure, that was also because Lewis ran away with the title in the same way Schumacher did in his prime. However, the crushing dominance of the W06 also played a major role in this. For newer fans, HAM-BOT-VER is basically the sequel of the notorious HAM-ROS-VET ;)
The 2004 cars not only sounded better, but they _looked_ much better too. Today‘s cars are much too long, and the crazy amount of guidelines force so many ugly aerodynamic tricks to work around those limitations.
The ugly aero tricks have little to do with a change in regs, but more with better cfd, the two plane front wing for example, or single piece bargeboards. Or diffuser vortex generators.
Schumacher probably would of won another championship or two and won more races fastest laps and poles. If he didn't retire in 2006 he should of stayed until 2012
wow, nice, you read two Wikipedia articles and compared some standard stats like length. A twelve years old could do this! Give us some insight, some track comparison
As an American I swear this is literally the same as Senna vs Schumacher. Dale vs. the entire grid. Jordan vs LeBron. Brady vs every qb...... I love it
The fact that Micheal was part of the Mercedes team before its dominance deserves him some credit, I'm sure he played a role in building that team and getting the right people involved for the Mercedes domination that came after his departure. That to me puts Micheal in a special category ( provided that Lewis doesn't do the same in the near future).
Oh god, here we go with the bullshit hype that follows anything "Schumacher". Next thing you'll tell me that he was fabricating the parts himself and hand-built all the engines solo. Also, he could win Connect 4 in three moves.
@@inkjazz These people are deluded. Ross Brawn himself said on F1 podcast Michael never did simulator work because it made him sick. Schumacher did convince Merc's parent company to invest more money on their F1 team, but he did not have input on the 2014 car as his feedback was limited to the things he could actually drive.
No mate. Put the f2004 on slicks and give it Drs like that merc and it would be flying round tracks as its so light in comparison. The only downside is it would need to be refuelled due to the rules meaning smaller fuel tanks
@@565656goonersorry mate but the slicks wouldn’t help the f2004 beat the w11 , the w11 would still smoke the f2004 , I mean it’s expected with 16 years of advances
@Perrystrologist go and look at any simulation and you'll be proved wrong. Look at simple physics also. Smaller, lighter, more aero packages, less fuel. On slicks the f2004 is wiping the floor with the w11. The v10 engine. Way more horsepower... If somehow we could also make it equal in terms of Drs and recovery systems then my word it'll wipe the floor with the w11 Just because there have been advancements doesn't mean it's faster.
@@fazilmuhammed5410 nah. Pretty much anything in the last almost decade are hard to look at. need i mention the sex aid on the nose to quote Richard Hammon.
F1 cars got more and more ugly since 2007....todays cars are better than the most ugly F1 cars ever(2010-2012) but they are still ugly. They are sluggish because of the unusual long wheelbase and just do not lool good at all. Compared to the beauties of the early 00, when F1 cars just looked amazing! And if you give the F2004 slicks - its definetely the much better racecar. Its more agile, and would be faster than todays cars(slicks have, depending on the track, an advantage of 4-6 seconds a lap).
Probably should have gone with the F2002, with which Michael never finished lower than *2nd*, and Rubens took to 4 wins, and 6 other podiums (5 2nds). And then Rubens got another two podiums, with another win for Michael as well the following season.
Sorry for answering after a year, but what people say is that F2004 was quicker all around and was a better machine, but the F2002 was the car that Michael liked the most out of all Ferrari's
F2004 all the way, it looks and sounds a million times better. Imagine building a 2004 F1 car with modern technology. The 3 liter NA V12 from Ferrari was pumping out 900 HP back then. I think BMW managed 950. With modern advancements, it will easily do an extra 200-300 HP. Put some slicks on it and improve the aerodynamics a bit and it mops the floor with a modern F1 car.
@@aaronmontague2891 Who said anything about an electric motor ?!? 🤨😐😑 Fuck hybrids and fuck electric !!! 🤮 I was talking about using ONLY a naturally aspirated V10, with no garbage electric parts whatsoever.
im pretty sure it's impossible to create anymore power from a naturally aspirated v10 or v12. those parts like the pistons are already treading physical limits. besides, you cant possibly make a 19k rpm v10 reliable. thats why retirements were so common 20 years ago. atleast 2 or 3 drivers every race needed to retire because their v10s went kaboom. how fun is that? to watch races and championships be decided because competitors went up in a cloud of smoke...
@@no1washerezz I agree that today's engines are more reliable, but you also must understand that the technology advanced a lot. They now make roughly the same power as the early 2000's V10 engines, but imagine a V10 with modern technology, I'm absolutely confident they'd make way more HP now that back then. If I were to speculate, I'd say at least 200 HP more.
The visuals of these videos, in particular the overkill amount stock footage but also the quick succession of zoom in / zoom out on pictures, makes it look like amateur hour.
All in good but imagine if the development of the 2004 was continued. The weight advantage and the smaller more nimble characteristics of the V10 car would massively outperform the cars of today. It really is comparing apples to giraffes. F1 development never stops. The current engine is still being enhanced while the old V10s have been dead for over 12 years! When you really look at things this comparison actually signifys how great the V10s actually were. As its been in only the last two years that ALL of the V10 lap times have been broken.
Really not a good point thought is it. Might as well say imagine if the W11 could be developed more. Be made lighter, allow refueling, only need the engine to last one race. I'm sorry but there is literally no point in throwing around all these "what if" scenarios about. Because there are countless factors that contribute as to why these cars perform they way they do. Modern day cars have advantages and disadvantages in different ways, same about the 2004 cars in comparison to now. In speaking in just facts, the 2017-2021 cars are the fastest F1 has ever been. Pretty much every race lap record has been broken now. In you allow quali laps, the gap is even wider. I don't care if someone reminds me about what if they had slicks or, took them that long to beat 04 cars. Isn't my point at all. The V10's were utterly incredible and so damn fast. But, throwing around what ifs doesn't change the facts, as we could be here all day talking about that.
the w11 is the outright faster car... the v6 hybrid is pushing similar hp (about 1000) but nobody seems to realize that the v6 is forced induction thus it pushes out nearly twice the amount of torque the v10 does... if you were to strap a v6 hybrid into the f2004, it would demolish the v10 record.
F2004 was a whole different beast altogether. Don't compare apples with pears. If one would make something by the 2004 rules nowadays I don't think that there would be much difference. That machine was unreal
Imagine building a 2004 F1 car with modern technology. The 3 liter NA V12 from Ferrari was pumping out 900 HP back then. I think BMW managed 950. With modern advancements, it will easily do an extra 200-300 HP. Put some slicks on it and improve the aerodynamics a bit and it mops the floor with a modern F1 car.
@@michaeltrumph121 and it has a smaller footprint so that is also why they could actually overtake back then. Remember the epic fight between Alonso and Schumacher? That Ferrari was not much more than a car's length behind for the last ten laps.
actually, it is quite astonishing, that the weight difference between the two cars isn't a lot bigger - it is clearly not only safety measures and the engine difference... today's cars are gigantic, compared to the 2004 competitors! Just look at the top view, the 2020 car looks slimmer (due to its length) than the F2004 even if the mercedes is actually 20cm wider. the size difference is really dramatic, that alone is a major factor in weight increase
Two very special cars in F1 we will never see the likes of again, current red bull is winning everything yes but it’s nothing compared to the speed of the monstrous F2004 and W11. Just a privilege to witness them
Yes! 🥵 V10s 🔝💦 in real life them are so LOUD it's scary 😱 spectacular unmatched sound 🤤 even Alonso and Hamilton agree and wish they could bring them back to F1 😢
Its certainly possible but interesting nonetheless, the active suspension meant that the FW14b could go around the old tighter Stowe corner flat out at about 200mph but it's short of about 250HP.
The F2004 was absolutely amazing. Hated at the time, due to the annoying dominance. However looking back, it was amazing how good that car was. It was so good Ferrari themselves thought they’d cheated somehow 😂
If they build their cars now like the F2004, needing more pit stops per race, they'd fuck up their races even more, seeing how frequently their pit crew botch things up.
Schumacher won these races on two different teams. And finally build experience while driving for Mercedes at the very last. This makes Michael unmistakenly #1. If Lewis had made one of his titles in a different team i d have more respect of it.
I forgot that Michael alongside Ross, was the man that brought Mercedes back to F1.. What a legend
It was more than that, it takes a whole team. Tons of people from Benetton moved over to Ferrari with Michael
Ferrari F2004 is definition of F1 for me
Imagine this car using the actual Pirelli Pzero slicks
@OriginalFake maybe not in quali, but I’m race, it will dominate modern cars
@OriginalFake btw with modern rules would be slower af in race
This and Senna's MP4/4 represent everything good about F1.
@@TheRealVranesh but don’t forget drs. They didn’t have it or the slicks. They would be stupid fast that way. They also had tcs which is why they were so fast
The stock footage is getting into overkill.
🤣 🤣 🤣 especially @ 3:01
I couldn't agree more - I think it's just lazy. Please spend a little effort to get F1 footage, it's what we want to see (and should be what you are paid for)
Couldn't agree more. Tacky and unprofessional.
this comment saved me from wasting any more time watching this
The F2004’s competitors didn’t have in-season testing bans, they were at least allowed to catch up if they could. The fact that none of them did speaks to its dominance vs the Merc.
In season testing also helps the ferrari to find weak spots and find weak spots. You don’t think ferrari used that in 2004?
Well merc stopped developing half way through
hybrid era teams were also allowed to catch up but they couldn't Mercedes went through many new regs by the FIA trying to slow them down because horner was whining since 2004.
@@travisfubu9053 they had a finished car when they announced hybrid era lol
@@travisfubu9053 they still didnt have a rule change akin to what happened to Ferrari in 2005.
This video had much more potential tbh... The Race guys will pull off a more solid content than this one. Guys you need to pull up your socks honestly. Sorry if it hurts, but an honest feedback
schumacher vs Prost & Senna's Mclaren
@@zprastalo4762 did they get sacked or did they leave to form their own thing? I always heard it was the latter
But they’ll get a gnarly tan line if they pull up their socks
There were only 18 races in 2004, not 20.
Shuamcher better
Exactly. That's quite an oversight 😜
Yeah that really stood out. I don't recall 20 races until the mid 2010s
@@hanzskarl4865 disagree
The F2004 competed in 20 races, all 18 of the 2004 season + the first 2 races in 2005 with slight modifications to it, until they revealed the F2005 with the begining of the european rounds in 2005, thus the F2004 raced in 20 races
I swear the editor is the taking the piss with the stock footage no lie😂😂
On engine SOUND alone the Ferrari wins
It sounds better but the cars is just not that good of course
I did sound more imposing, no arguments about that. But when you think about it, all that sound is actually loss of power that is being robbed from making the car go faster. Today's power units are impressive in how efficient and powerful they are. I'd have that over loud sound any day. Any day.
And in wins in terms of being a lot lighter. Gets out of corners faster. Merc is faster but takes time to catch up on straights. In slow speed sections it can’t keep up. Give the Ferrari the modern fat slicks and the merc will only be quicker at the end of long straights.
@@ploppyjr2373 You're doing everything you can to disagree with people who prefer the Ferrari. As a personal matter, I don't think there is any doubt which sounds better but there can be no denying which was more technically superior, *ahem* Mercedes *ahem*. That said, the question invariably comes down to which driver is better and that's a question that will be debated until the end of time. I only started watching in 2006/7 during Schumacher's wane in performance but to me it always seemed like with every introduction of technologies that helped the driver go faster, the less involved and involved the driver became in a sport that purports to showcase driving prowess. That all said, I wished more journalists and fans in general would include into the discussion of the era when drivers had little more than 3 pedals and a wheel. Seeing that famous footage of Senna taking the "Esses" at Suzuka while steering with one hand and shifting with the other is truly a sight to behold.
@@OggaDugga Yeah absolutely, no arguments about that. I wish current crop of F1 cars were lighter. Extra weight requires extra energy and generally makes the handling worse. That's something F1 should really look at, together with having cars generate more downforce from ground effect.
1:32 If they zoomed out more, we would probably see Gigakubica.
*EEEEEEEEEEEE*
Mistake here. In 2004 the season had 18 races and not 20
Car competed in 20 races. If u wanna look at its performance u look at all of its performance.
F2004 was a miracle, w11 is a mystery.👽🔥
It was however an 18 race season
Ayrton Senna's McLaren wants to know your location.
Brilliant I concur
Jordan 191 making angry noises in the distance
McLaren MP4/4
@saitama not pretty tho
@@huyra8019 The MP4/4 is generally regarded as one of the best looking F1 cars, especially if you compare it to the boxy designs the other teams had in 1988. But of course you're entitled to your opinion.
This and Senna's MP4/4 represent everything good about F1.
I never understood how the media continued to say no one will beat Michael’s records. I always said Schumacher records aren’t enough someone who started their career early enough with a dominant team can easily catch that.
Just look at Seb and Redbull he got half way there in 4 years. Mercedes did the same but was able to continue the pace. It was definitely doable.
Also bare in mind Schumacher missed out on 99 season from injuries. The seasons weren’t as long and Ferrari dominated part 2001 all 2002/2004 the rest was closely fought.
Mercedes and Lewis have had 2014/2015/2016/2019/2020
2017/2018 were the only true challenges from the competition.
Plus you have 20 plus races in a season to help catch up very quickly.
Also something cool Michael has technical been involved in 3 teams that went on to win multiple world championships.
He did play an important roll in the Mercedes build up phase his with going forward in a team help lure some big names to Mercedes some of who worked with him in Ferrari. So in part Schumacher and those members did help shape Mercedes for the future mainly 2013/2014.
Also Michael had to fight for the championships pretty closely in performance in 97 98 99 00. Lewis has the privilege of showing up to Mercedes in 2013 and then one year later they dominate for years.
Now I’m not hating on Lewis I congratulate him and I take nothing away from his Achievements. I just like to point some difference is all. If Mercedes had 2 Bottas in the team Vettel could be World Champion 2017/2018. So Lewis has been a top quality driver no doubt. The cars don’t drive themselves. That being said Keep Fighting Michael.
You don't get paid *£40M* a year just to drive fast. This perception that Hamilton jets off to America after a race and only returns to the factory a couple of days before another race weekend is wrong. Every single person who's worked with Lewis in F1 said he's been heavily involved in the technical department since he was a rookie.
You state that Michael had to fight closely in the late 90's but fail to mention he never had a teammate capable of/allowed to challenge him. Lewis had at least *3 world champion* teammates taking a good amount of points away and preventing him from winning titles. Alonso, Button and Rosberg. None of Schumacher's teammates in his prime come close to the level of the 3 drivers i mentioned.
There's no doubt in anybody's mind that Lewis would be heading towards his 10th championship if he had only been paired with sub par drivers like Michael did at Benetton and Ferrari. But then again, he wouldn't be half the driver he is today.
@DaniMacYo well said. I like that fact you said Micheal has hes records with different teams he also has his records with different engine manufacturers. 3 to be exact. Fangio has hes world titles with four different teams and 4 different engines.
@@hevendranarayansamy2793 fangio tested every car and would sign a one year deal with the fastest team.
True, but back in the 1970s most drivers would be killed before they could be tremendously successful, and the 1980s were insanely competitive. Therefore, Prost's record of 51 race wins looked impressive at the time, but it took an exceptionally gifted driver just one decade to equal it, even though he generally didn't have the best car at that time. Had Ferrari given him a dominant car in the 1990s, or hadn't he retired as early as 2006, Schumacher would have won well over 100 races.
Even if Hamilton significantly raises the bar, his record may be convincingly broken. After all, he was 'already' 22 years old when he made his debut in F1, and he spent 6 years in a good, but not great McLaren.
I don’t get your point about Schumacher fighting for titles from 97 to 00. Did you forget Hamilton was at McLaren and was unlucky to lose the title in 07 won in 08 had a poor car 09 competed closely and at times led in 10 had a poor season in 11 then but for bad luck and unreliability would have won 12. The point is Hamilton also competed at the top in cars that weren’t dominant.
I always wondered how they would compare against older cars
FW14b for instance?
@saitama
Check race times. The v10s finished the races in way less time.
@saitama higher downforce too would make breaking late much easier on the w11 along with ERS specially if we are qualifying. It’s not a race for sure.
F2004 on slicks and one lap race fuel would probably beat the w11 convincingly in quali. During 2004 they used threaded tyres and qualifying was done with race fuel load
@@antonioakiki3716 doubt it
The driver in 2004 still had to manually fine the bite point and release the clutch on lights out, since launch control was banned. Traction control was still legal, but I believe the traction did not work at lower speeds, I believe it was below 60 or 70 mph. So maybe a little bit more assistance, but not much.
but you dont really need tc on 60-70 mph or 100km/h, the hardest is to floor the pedal from 0-60
F2004 has fuck all torque so launching would be way easier
The difference is the torque of the car, the F2004 would have far less torque than the W11 due to the W11’s power train.
@@aledforbes6278 especially since the f2004 is NA meaning even less low end torque
The amount of stock footage used deserves an oscar 😂
Great comparison video. On the drivers, still Schumacher for mine. Left a champion team for a broken one. And then turned it right around.
@Targa Florio True but how many championships did mercedes have before lewis joined the team? 0. How many wins? 1... Won't even mention Schumacher transferring his entire bennetton championship winning technical team to ferrari with him. So the question has to be asked, what team did michael build exactly?
Broken? Ferrari finished second 7 times in the constructors championships between 1983 -1999.
More like they just needed an MOT.
@@Enzoblueblood lmao from 92 to 96 they won 2 races merc. From 2010 to 2012 while they won less, had many more podiums and had arguably better personnel than Ferrari
@@Bahamuttiamat Michael built that team, he built by bringing people with him. That’s how you build a team in at least some sense. Not to mention it also took those amazing personel like four years of struggle to win a championship.
@@mypenishuge3499 What do you mean? Had Schumacher not broken his leg, he would've won 99(ferrari won the constructors).
Lewis walked into mercedes barehanded. Into a team with no history of success other than 55 years prior. It was widely reported as a cash grab and career suicide. All of a sudden, the revisionist like to talk up how "early" mercedes started on the v6hybrid engine, as if the rules weren't released at the same time for Ferrari, renault and the other vying manufacturers.
Lewis is as responsible for mercedes success (continued) as schumacher was for ferrari. It comes down to the package, both car and driver. Rubens didn't win much, and neither is bottas. Just look at max in RBR with alex/gasly do jack shit with what is clearly the 2nd best car by a long way, on the grid.
you were struggeling with the stock video footage in this one
Imagine the v10 with the technology we have today
Both teams and drivers are great.
Just appreciate both of them and stop making unnecessary debates for GOAT.
*Exactly*
Same with the NBA
People seem to forget, in 18 years they got 100 more horsepower, 2004 there wasn’t even an iPhone out it’s incredible how well built they were
The qmount of power the cars can make is heavily regulated by what the teams are allowed to do.
Todays cars and the 2004 cars could have had alot more power if they were allowed. So... what's your point?
well, this is an inaccurate statement because the v6 hybrid is heavily more regulated
I thought the f2002 or whatever car ferrari made in 2002 would've been considered the greatest as Schumacher got a 100 percent podium rate that season
2003 was very quick too, but bridgestone tires were inferior to michelin, dont forget that ferrari started 2004 season with a b-spec 2003 car and was very competitve, even won races.
@@nestroit5010Not really. Ferrari started the 2004 season with a box fresh F2004 rather than previous year F2003-GA
I like hamlton but I personally prefer Michael more and 19 years of being the most successful in F1 driver until now
Let's appreciate the input of Ross Brawn had in the success of both these teams. I know he left Mercedes in 2011 but he laid the foundation & people that led them to be ready for the hybrid era and what he did at Ferrari with Michael is legendary, his 2004 France GP 4 stop strategy is a perfect example. If you've never seen that race or are new to F1 I suggest you watch that race.
@2:59 that boy on his damn phone while refueling...
4:15 FINALLY... Although you only mentioned the tyres, someone finally acknowledging just how bespoke the Ferrari was compared to the field... though that bespoke nature leant itself more specifically to Michaels car over Ruben's as well and extended beyond just tyres into virtually all customer parts.
The W11 is one beautiful work of art. From the black color scheme, the longer wheelbase, to the halo even. It all looks super impressive and fast! No arguments that the 2004 Ferrari sounds better, but then again the engines were vastly different back then. Louder, thirstier, and angrier.
“If the current form of Mercedes’ continues” aged well
People are so quick to judge a car simply on its sound. The efficiency of the current cars is phenomenal compared to the V10s of 16 years ago.
Well... someone could think some people just want to be entertained by a race. You're right, modern F1 really has phenomenal cars when it comes to efficiency, but (as far as I'm concerned) the soul of F1 kinda died with many of the steps towards efficiency. Just (re)watch the races from '98 to '01, which are my personal favorites. The tension of fuel-strategy, real overtaking without any aid, many capable drivers and machinery that could always give you a surprise. And of course the sound... it was glorious.
@@StormTehSinner Ah, recency bias, my favourite. You do know that overtakes were LESS common back then, right?
@@richardhobbs7360 Of course they were less common back then. But I don't really care for overtakes because the driver can press the DRS button on his wheel. And yes, I know there's more to it, but nonetheless it's mostly the DRS which increased overtaking in F1 and I still think that's as boring as having just a few overtakes in a race. And yes, I am biased towards my opinion and what I like when it comes to F1. Why wouldn't I?
@@StormTehSinner well, considering racing wasn’t even closer back then, your opinion is just incorrect
@@richardhobbs7360 My opinion isn't "incorrect", because there isn't something like correct or incorrect when it comes to PERSONAL opinions. Different people have different opinions on things based on their preferences.
I actually don't get why you seemingly made it your mission to try and convince me that my favorite F1 era shouldn't be MY PERSONAL favorite era. And that it should somehow be wrong to not like modern F1 because "it's so much better"... which btw is YOUR PERSONAL OPINION and will never be mine.
This is a really pointless comparison.
Alternative Title:
*Stock footage goes vroom*
The f2004 looks way better but the w11 is the greatest car ever built
Based on numbers alone, the Mercedes W06 from 2015 is way up there. In my opinion it has the most impressive stats in comparison to its sister cars. The car was the natural evolution from the W05. It was the perfect blend of performance and reliability and it managed to surpass a lot records from its predecessor.
True, it has less wins and poles than the Mercedes W07 from 2016 but the W06 shines in other major statistical categories where it beats some of the best F1 cars which were ever built. More importantly, it manages to beat them not only by numbers (which is much easier today due to many more races per season in recent years) but percentage-wise!
--> The W06 had a record-breaking 12 1-2 finishes (aka the "perfect result"): that's a rate of 63.2% which beats the former record of the McLaren MP4-4 (10/16 1-2 finishes = 62.5%).
--> The W06 had a record-breaking 15 front-row lockouts: that's a rate of roughly 79% which beats the MP4-4 yet again (12/16 front-row lockouts = 75%).
-> The W06 scored 703 points out of a possible 817: that's 86% of all points available, eclipsing the tally of the Ferrari F2004 (272/324 points = 84%)
-> The W06 scored 32 podiums in 19 races (1 less than the W07 which had 2 more races available): That's a podium rate of 84.2%, beating the Ferrari F2004 yet again (30/36 podiums = 83,4%).
The W06 gets rarely mentioned in debates (between the "performance monster" W05 and the "19 wins/20 poles" scoring W07) but it deserves a mention. 2015 was in my opinion the most boring V6 hybrid season. Sure, that was also because Lewis ran away with the title in the same way Schumacher did in his prime. However, the crushing dominance of the W06 also played a major role in this. For newer fans, HAM-BOT-VER is basically the sequel of the notorious HAM-ROS-VET ;)
All true, can't decide the best, but in 2015 Ferrari or the 2nd team anyway was slightly closer to Mercedes than the 2nd in 2014 or 2016.
@Eric Meyers no: more Ham-Ver-Bot we saw
And in conclusion: who stays now the best?? Which one: the W05, W06, W07, or W11??
imagine the current field getting to race with traction control and abs
No more s🅱️innala
@@yourerightmybad7363 not unless you are vettel
@@SeshvirSeodutt Haha lmao you have achieved peak comedy.
Could be nice to see a race of the ancients f1 against the news.
It would be interesting to see lap time comparisons for tracks or segments of tracks that are the same today as then.
In monza the qualifying time for the f2004 was 1:20.089 where Rubens Barrichello had the faster time and the Mercedes did a 1:18.887 with Hamilton
@@jacobswartz1061 still, Rubens holds the race lap record till this day
@@vinnicinhus44 didn’t they change the layout or am I misremembering something
@@aceofaces1506 yeah, apparently in 2007 and in 2016. If I remember correctly, the gain in time was supposed to be about 8 tenths of a second.
@@vinnicinhus44 They didn’t change the track layout since 2000.
16 years after, the F2004 still looks far more beautiful than the current plastic looking F1 cars. Oh and it sounds majestic too.
But the ferrari is also made out of carbon fibre just like modern f1 cars smh
I W11 more to be honest but fine.
Have you seen the f2004? Early 2000s f1 cars were the most plastic crappy looking ever. Only thing worse was that year with the super tall wings
@@canismajoris6733 Oh, you're talking about the Hot Wheels toy version? I agree
3 mints of empty talks
Auto sports randomly get a little lazy on content?
The 2004 cars not only sounded better, but they _looked_ much better too. Today‘s cars are much too long, and the crazy amount of guidelines force so many ugly aerodynamic tricks to work around those limitations.
Looks are highly *subjective.*
The W11 looks better and more *menacing* to me, but others may find the F2004 easier on the eye.
The ugly aero tricks have little to do with a change in regs, but more with better cfd, the two plane front wing for example, or single piece bargeboards. Or diffuser vortex generators.
The newer cars look like boats, they are way too big and chucky
2021 are faster all around.
@@Euclides287
The W11 is shit, just like all modern F1 cars, due to having that garbage HALO
Schumacher probably would of won another championship or two and won more races fastest laps and poles. If he didn't retire in 2006 he should of stayed until 2012
As long as Michael, Ross, and Jean stayed together it had a good chance.
As long as Michael, Ross, and Jean stayed together it had a good chance.
Very informative, thanks mate
wow, nice, you read two Wikipedia articles and compared some standard stats like length. A twelve years old could do this! Give us some insight, some track comparison
As an American I swear this is literally the same as Senna vs Schumacher. Dale vs. the entire grid. Jordan vs LeBron. Brady vs every qb...... I love it
Wich app did you use to edit the video? Good vid
F1 2004 the best car ever made!!
The fact that Micheal was part of the Mercedes team before its dominance deserves him some credit, I'm sure he played a role in building that team and getting the right people involved for the Mercedes domination that came after his departure. That to me puts Micheal in a special category ( provided that Lewis doesn't do the same in the near future).
Agree. This is the truth
michael convinced lauda to come, convinced merc to put way more money into the team
Oh god, here we go with the bullshit hype that follows anything "Schumacher". Next thing you'll tell me that he was fabricating the parts himself and hand-built all the engines solo. Also, he could win Connect 4 in three moves.
You do realize this video was about the cars and not the drivers, right?
@@inkjazz These people are deluded. Ross Brawn himself said on F1 podcast Michael never did simulator work because it made him sick. Schumacher did convince Merc's parent company to invest more money on their F1 team, but he did not have input on the 2014 car as his feedback was limited to the things he could actually drive.
The F2004 is legendary but the W11 is the ultimate and final boss. Mercedes made the greatest F1 car of all time.
No mate. Put the f2004 on slicks and give it Drs like that merc and it would be flying round tracks as its so light in comparison. The only downside is it would need to be refuelled due to the rules meaning smaller fuel tanks
@@565656goonerthen it will be cheating
@@565656goonerso increase the fuel flow limit then see who's faster
@@565656goonersorry mate but the slicks wouldn’t help the f2004 beat the w11 , the w11 would still smoke the f2004 , I mean it’s expected with 16 years of advances
@Perrystrologist go and look at any simulation and you'll be proved wrong.
Look at simple physics also. Smaller, lighter, more aero packages, less fuel. On slicks the f2004 is wiping the floor with the w11.
The v10 engine. Way more horsepower...
If somehow we could also make it equal in terms of Drs and recovery systems then my word it'll wipe the floor with the w11
Just because there have been advancements doesn't mean it's faster.
Two of my favorite F1 cars!! Dream video
Schumacher was a chest full stop!! Ferrari made sure he won it was in his contract! Lewis far better driver and a better personality 👍🏎
Alex Gillon tested and if on slick tyres,F2004 can go faster as W11 through the turns
*IT'S EVOLVING,JUST BACKWARDS*
W11 is the fastest and they stoped developing it half way through the season
It’s so incredible to me that governments and not customers determine engine choices in formula 1.
W11 better but f2004 was 16 years before the w11, so says a lot.
2020 cars are incredibly beautiful😍
They're big and fat.
@@bmstylee and beautiful as well..
@@fazilmuhammed5410 nah. Pretty much anything in the last almost decade are hard to look at. need i mention the sex aid on the nose to quote Richard Hammon.
F1 cars got more and more ugly since 2007....todays cars are better than the most ugly F1 cars ever(2010-2012) but they are still ugly. They are sluggish because of the unusual long wheelbase and just do not lool good at all. Compared to the beauties of the early 00, when F1 cars just looked amazing! And if you give the F2004 slicks - its definetely the much better racecar. Its more agile, and would be faster than todays cars(slicks have, depending on the track, an advantage of 4-6 seconds a lap).
He's being sarcastic
Seb has more wins than prost why wasn't he shown?
Cause at the time Prost held the record that Schumacher broke in 2001
Probably should have gone with the F2002, with which Michael never finished lower than *2nd*, and Rubens took to 4 wins, and 6 other podiums (5 2nds). And then Rubens got another two podiums, with another win for Michael as well the following season.
Sorry for answering after a year, but what people say is that F2004 was quicker all around and was a better machine, but the F2002 was the car that Michael liked the most out of all Ferrari's
F2004 all the way, it looks and sounds a million times better.
Imagine building a 2004 F1 car with modern technology. The 3 liter NA V12 from Ferrari was pumping out 900 HP back then. I think BMW managed 950. With modern advancements, it will easily do an extra 200-300 HP. Put some slicks on it and improve the aerodynamics a bit and it mops the floor with a modern F1 car.
V10
It's not that simple. Hybrid power units are heavier so using a V10 plus an electric motor is a lot of weight.
@@aaronmontague2891
Who said anything about an electric motor ?!? 🤨😐😑
Fuck hybrids and fuck electric !!! 🤮
I was talking about using ONLY a naturally aspirated V10, with no garbage electric parts whatsoever.
im pretty sure it's impossible to create anymore power from a naturally aspirated v10 or v12. those parts like the pistons are already treading physical limits. besides, you cant possibly make a 19k rpm v10 reliable. thats why retirements were so common 20 years ago. atleast 2 or 3 drivers every race needed to retire because their v10s went kaboom. how fun is that? to watch races and championships be decided because competitors went up in a cloud of smoke...
@@no1washerezz
I agree that today's engines are more reliable, but you also must understand that the technology advanced a lot.
They now make roughly the same power as the early 2000's V10 engines, but imagine a V10 with modern technology, I'm absolutely confident they'd make way more HP now that back then. If I were to speculate, I'd say at least 200 HP more.
I mean... schumi will break his own records if he is driving mercedes in hybrid era xDD
Correct
100%
no, because nico would beat him almost every single race.
@@user-gu1hl2kx2k u not wrong. if nico still around lewis wont get his 91 schumi records equals either xDDD
@@moulanaaidi5415 he would eventually. Remember Lewis still won in 2014 and 2015.
The visuals of these videos, in particular the overkill amount stock footage but also the quick succession of zoom in / zoom out on pictures, makes it look like amateur hour.
There F2002 was arguably even better than the F2004... The F2002 won all but 1 race that year.
But on outright pace the F2004 is a beast
All the people saying the f2004 is better are the same ones that say it’s just the car for Lewis and won’t say it for Schumacher
The ferrari looks and sounds 1000times better
The current one is enough ruclips.net/video/2Dpkm7_w8ko/видео.html
The Ferrari F2004 is the moat beautiful and best sounding car ever. The Red Goddess
You missed the only thing we wanted to know: Which one was faster.
All in good but imagine if the development of the 2004 was continued. The weight advantage and the smaller more nimble characteristics of the V10 car would massively outperform the cars of today. It really is comparing apples to giraffes. F1 development never stops. The current engine is still being enhanced while the old V10s have been dead for over 12 years! When you really look at things this comparison actually signifys how great the V10s actually were. As its been in only the last two years that ALL of the V10 lap times have been broken.
They would never continue the development since in 05 there were changes, and as you mentioned, in 2008 the whole regulations changed too
@@pedrosilvaproductions Of course they wouldn't continue development, the whole concept of this conversation is "speculation"
Really not a good point thought is it. Might as well say imagine if the W11 could be developed more. Be made lighter, allow refueling, only need the engine to last one race. I'm sorry but there is literally no point in throwing around all these "what if" scenarios about. Because there are countless factors that contribute as to why these cars perform they way they do. Modern day cars have advantages and disadvantages in different ways, same about the 2004 cars in comparison to now. In speaking in just facts, the 2017-2021 cars are the fastest F1 has ever been. Pretty much every race lap record has been broken now. In you allow quali laps, the gap is even wider. I don't care if someone reminds me about what if they had slicks or, took them that long to beat 04 cars. Isn't my point at all. The V10's were utterly incredible and so damn fast. But, throwing around what ifs doesn't change the facts, as we could be here all day talking about that.
the w11 is the outright faster car... the v6 hybrid is pushing similar hp (about 1000) but nobody seems to realize that the v6 is forced induction thus it pushes out nearly twice the amount of torque the v10 does... if you were to strap a v6 hybrid into the f2004, it would demolish the v10 record.
apparently of you put the f2004 on slicks it would be as fast/faster than the current generation of f1
+DRS
F2004 was a whole different beast altogether. Don't compare apples with pears. If one would make something by the 2004 rules nowadays I don't think that there would be much difference. That machine was unreal
Imagine building a 2004 F1 car with modern technology. The 3 liter NA V12 from Ferrari was pumping out 900 HP back then. I think BMW managed 950. With modern advancements, it will easily do an extra 200-300 HP. Put some slicks on it and improve the aerodynamics a bit and it mops the floor with a modern F1 car.
@@michaeltrumph121 and it has a smaller footprint so that is also why they could actually overtake back then. Remember the epic fight between Alonso and Schumacher? That Ferrari was not much more than a car's length behind for the last ten laps.
@@Roguescienceguy ahhhh yes, the good old days where 7 out of 12 overtakes per race happened because someone's engine blew to pieces.
Great comparison!
Schumacher and the Ferrari dynasty days are special. Hope this new formula is way better than the Last one for sure..
Give the F2004 slicks and it will leave in the mud every 2021 car on the gird. The F2004 still holds the fastest Monza lap for almost 2 daceds by now.
it was 18 races come on...
"You have to go back 16 (well, now 17) years..." - YES! YES PLEASE! LET'S DO THIS!
The F2004 was a beast! Probably the best car in F1 history after the FW15
after? the thing that made that Williams great was its suspension, the F2004 and W11 would give it a run for its money.
actually, it is quite astonishing, that the weight difference between the two cars isn't a lot bigger - it is clearly not only safety measures and the engine difference... today's cars are gigantic, compared to the 2004 competitors!
Just look at the top view, the 2020 car looks slimmer (due to its length) than the F2004 even if the mercedes is actually 20cm wider. the size difference is really dramatic, that alone is a major factor in weight increase
Schumacher would have had Hamilton for breakfast
Just as *Vettel* had *Ricciardo* for breakfast on the back of winning his 4th title in a dominant fashion, huh? 🤔 🤨
@Jordan Striker let me complete that sentence for you "....everyday of the week"
@@Euclides287 Clit sphincter go play golf you flog
Depends what era we are talking about
@@jordanstriker1656 Stick to playing Need 4 speed, mate. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
The most beautiful f1 car ever, Ferrari
The 2004 season had 18 races not 20
The Mercedes W11 is basically a modern day Ferrari F2004. Hamilton is the new Schumacher too
Two very special cars in F1 we will never see the likes of again, current red bull is winning everything yes but it’s nothing compared to the speed of the monstrous F2004 and W11. Just a privilege to witness them
950 hp actually for the most powerful V10 BMW. Ferrari had 940.
V10s are the best, V6 Hybrids are the WORST, almost no sound at all lol and slower at straight lines.
Yes! 🥵 V10s 🔝💦 in real life them are so LOUD it's scary 😱 spectacular unmatched sound 🤤 even Alonso and Hamilton agree and wish they could bring them back to F1 😢
Grooved tires back then
F1 Cars then where so much quicker and better Handling with different driving Stils F2004 dir me the deffinition of F1
Would like to see the F2004 with halo.
Should compare the cars' dominance not the actual cars.
Resume The F2004 is faster for at least 4 seconds in race pace
Its certainly possible but interesting nonetheless, the active suspension meant that the FW14b could go around the old tighter Stowe corner flat out at about 200mph but it's short of about 250HP.
Eifel GP driver ratings Video? Please, I love those :(
Credit where credit is due. Good topic for a video and nicely done.
The F2004 was absolutely amazing. Hated at the time, due to the annoying dominance. However looking back, it was amazing how good that car was. It was so good Ferrari themselves thought they’d cheated somehow 😂
More dominant than the F2002?? They were already 26 secs ahead of Williams at the European Gp, or just because of less fuel??
@@emilekaram6094 I never said it was more dominant than the F2002, but we’re not talking about that. We’re talking about the F2004 and the W11
@@ben6993 But my question is: Which one was more dominant between F2002 and F2004??
At least we see when we cheat unlike RedBull
Its easy to forget just how big the current cars have got.
the F2004 had Traction control.
imagine the f2004 with 2020 slicks
Imagine the W11 with less fuel and the shit that was legal back then
Soooo much stock footage.
If they build their cars now like the F2004, needing more pit stops per race, they'd fuck up their races even more, seeing how frequently their pit crew botch things up.
1:29 idk why that was so funny to me lol
Pre 2017 cars: F1 smol bois
2017-Present cars: G I G A F 1
Schumacher won these races on two different teams. And finally build experience while driving for Mercedes at the very last. This makes Michael unmistakenly #1. If Lewis had made one of his titles in a different team i d have more respect of it.