Christopher Lloyd's character here is a real person, Lawrence Lessig, a Harvard Law Professor who actually helped the Republic of Georgia draft their Constitution in 1992
@@Leto617 Fun fact, Lawrence Lessig's organization, Equal Citizens, ranked Andrew Yang's democracy reform plan highest of anyone in the field, even big names like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. If you think I'm full of BS, he had it posted on his site for everyone to see (though only a very dedicated few took the time to read it the full way through): www.yang2020.com/blog/restoring-democracy-rebuilding-trust/
@@mfk5533 Yeah and I'm doing it. Trump let 200K+ people die to prop up the stock market and Yang might get Cabinet position for Small Business Administration or something like that if Biden wins so gotta at least give it a shot.
1:45 - "A constitutional democracy succeeds only if the constitution reflects democratic values already alive in the citizenry." This quote is underrated. This quote is magnificent
@@wanrazul It says democratic values, not democratic will. The constitution should be amendable by supermajority to give government more power, because occasionally society and technology create a new area of life that government needs to manage. But the people need to be so instilled with democratic values, with all the complications and nuances that involves, so they know when to (and when not to) use that amendment power.
@@BradyPostma The Germans had supermajority and gave the German leader more power back in the 1930s. People are easily manipulated, we can't trust them or politicians with power, IMHO. Modern day examples includes Greece, Turkey, Brazil, Mexico...all have long democratic traditions.
@@wanrazul The Germans did not give Hitler power by supermajority. His party had a tiny faction of power, was allowed a figurehead position in a coalition government, and used a crisis to take unconstitutional emergency powers, including banning opposition political parties. The failure there was people failing to hold their government to their constitution and laws, not a legal reform. And they certainly had very little in the way of a sense of democratic values in Germany in the 1920s and 30s. Britain in the 1810s is a reasonable comparison. You don't specify what eras you're talking about in regards to the other nations, but I expect similarly poor adherence to historic realities.
@@BradyPostma I'd be more secure in a fettered government, rather than hoping in the vigilance of the people. I'd rather have a government that is impotent, than one that is all powerful but betting on the unpredictable mob to hold it accountable. On Hitler, they have referendums to legitimize him. His approval rating is high, and was genuinely popular. Same as Putin, Erdogan, Bolsonaro, Xi Jinping...etc. To ensure freedom, an impotent government is better guarantee than a 'good' politician.
"Not a set of laws. A sense of the rule of law!" 1:04 Christopher Lloyd's masterful use of the English language is unparalleled, provided he's given words like this to make sound like they resonate down from the ages. I love this moment in this series.
Zachs, I think that that quote makes an important distinction. If a country, a people doesn't have a respect for the rule of law, then really what good are laws going to be? You might just end up with the law of a dictatorship (i.e. where the dictator decides what the laws is or isn't). But it's also wanting to live in a country where the rule of law matters and is a respected ideal. If you have that, then you can build the set of laws and move forward.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." That quote by Margaret Mead is basically the arc words of the whole series.
I'm always surprised at Christopher Lloyd's complexity I don't remember ever seeing them on West Wing and I think I watched most of the series a really fine actor great producer and great comedian kudos Christopher kudos!!!
No... he's still wrong. Then, now, and later. I bet you believe "Democracy" and "Freedom" are interchangeable words. They're not... they're antithetical to each other.
This is a beautiful scene, about the importance of common values and a sense of the law for a democratic country. The rule of law is based on the belief of the people in the rule of law (much like the value of money). Trying to create a democracy after toppling down a dictatorship, as is common in several Muslim countries of late, depends on creating within the citizenry a sense of the rule of law, an understanding that the laws are only strong when they are respected, and that their strength is needed to ensure peace and growth.
I'm a *little* surprised that Toby needs to have this explained to him; and that he doesn't already know who those men are. He's usually a lot more prepared for meetings.
Actually I was thinking they were going to have Lessig explain the Nevada case to him, but instead Toby was indeed able to answer his question :) As far as these guys' resumes, I'm assuming Toby knows perfectly well most of their bios, but Lessig was making a point to summarize who each of them were in a way that encapsulated their identities representing ideals suited to become the founding fathers of their new government.
Exactly the reason why Afghanistan fell ao fast. We poured money into the country, propped up a government... but failed to instill in the leadership why these ideas are important.
Afghanistan fell because the USA handled the maintenance and supply and funding for the Afghan army and didn’t do a transition to the Afghan government handling those things. The Americans left suddenly without care for the Afghans and left their allies unable to leave to die
The whole point is that you need to start discussion, debate, and RESPECT of the opposition for democracy to have a chance of working. Without any one of those things it is doomed. That is why the US is and has been in decline for decades.
I always thought the opening of this clip was interesting. The way he takes issue with the commander not being the one who decides when to go to war is intriguing to me because, in my eyes, that's such an obvious caution to take. A skilled commander may also be a warmonger. They may also know that their greatest strength is military prowess, whereas skills like diplomacy, tact, etc. may not be in their wheelhouse. Would you have wanted Trump to be able to declare war on a whim? Needing to have a secondary branch of government be the one that votes on whether we go to war seems like such a basic function that it always caught me off guard how the show uses that as an example of the US ignoring the Constitution. The document ain't perfect, and Lord knows it needs a few hundred corrections in present day, but that's a good passage of it in my eyes.
The key phrase is "democratic values already alive in the citizenry." That phrase no longer applies to the Republican half of the citizenry. And, the question "how many guys does it take" applies in reverse as well, and current events in the US shows that it doesn't take too many to overturn it all.
Looks like 'democratic values', ie. respect for the rule of law, needs to be re-discoverd in the US, it having been revealed how much they depends on unspoken norms and values, by the election of a President who respects only direct coercion.
"We"? Fuck Israel- 50 years of suckling at the teats of the American taxpayer are more than enough. No free rides for Jews, either. They wanted their own country, let them man up and fight their own battles. Feel free to buy a rifle and join them, @Jim Dandy
@Jim Dandy Not at all. You repeated gibberish that were crap talking points meant to fall into your lap. I question everything all of the time. And I don't live in the U.S. I'm Canadian. Talk to me about quality of living, life expectancy, happiness etc. The United States of America is not the only democracy. It is not the only country with free elections, private property and liberty. Look at how other western democracies organize themselves and look at the results. Many Americans still believe that angels walk among them. They clamor for a strong man who will impose their will on others to return America to greatness. They eat up this crap and shout crap about Venezuela. Yet these same Americans followed the example of electing someone who had proven themselves populists with no understanding of government and the role it plays in people's lives.
Not to be nitpicky, but for Meyer v. Nebraska, it kinda says you can teach German in schools in the First Amendment. Academic freedom is considered an unenumerated right that follows from the right to free speech.
The state may enact laws prohibiting it. It is not free speech when it is teaching children.-- otherwise, teachers could teach whatever they want. Public school education is state regulated activity.
@@seanwebb605 Except that's not what the 1st Amendment, or the free speech clause, is about. Free speech is about being able to criticize the government without being persecuted/jailed for it. Particularly the media, so it doesn't become a propaganda machine.
@@seanwebb605 You got corrected so you make insults??? Hilarious. That just tells me you don't understand the 1st Amendment at all, let alone the Constitution.
Javier Arvelo-Cruz-Santana We fought them because they declared war on us. For some reason the Chinese still speak Chinese for non interference in other nations internal affairs. They don’t export communism anymore.
@@marcosmartins7581 Americans cry for the lack of so called democracy in nations like North Korea or Iran, but are oddly silent when it's Egypt, Jordan, or Saudi Arabia.
Christopher Lloyd's character here is a real person, Lawrence Lessig, a Harvard Law Professor who actually helped the Republic of Georgia draft their Constitution in 1992
Ran for president in 2016, but announced he was a one issue candidate, campaign finance reform, lost before he got started.
@@Leto617 Fun fact, Lawrence Lessig's organization, Equal Citizens, ranked Andrew Yang's democracy reform plan highest of anyone in the field, even big names like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. If you think I'm full of BS, he had it posted on his site for everyone to see (though only a very dedicated few took the time to read it the full way through): www.yang2020.com/blog/restoring-democracy-rebuilding-trust/
@@SecretJanitor andrew yang wants you to vote for biden
@@mfk5533 Yeah and I'm doing it. Trump let 200K+ people die to prop up the stock market and Yang might get Cabinet position for Small Business Administration or something like that if Biden wins so gotta at least give it a shot.
Lessig is a boss. love his work
Once you get the constitution up to 88 mph, you're going to see some serious s*it.
Yeah, but you have to learn how to drive a stick first.
nice you have 88 likes..
This is probably the best youtube comment I have ever seen.
Broke me.
Constitution? Where we're going you don't need a constitution.
“How many guys do you think it takes?” Still gives me goosebumps.
Sadly for Belarus in October 2020... The dictator still stands.
1:45 - "A constitutional democracy succeeds only if the constitution reflects democratic values already alive in the citizenry."
This quote is underrated. This quote is magnificent
What if the citizenry want to government to have more power over their lives? Should the constitution be amended for that? Should it undermine itself?
@@wanrazul It says democratic values, not democratic will.
The constitution should be amendable by supermajority to give government more power, because occasionally society and technology create a new area of life that government needs to manage. But the people need to be so instilled with democratic values, with all the complications and nuances that involves, so they know when to (and when not to) use that amendment power.
@@BradyPostma The Germans had supermajority and gave the German leader more power back in the 1930s. People are easily manipulated, we can't trust them or politicians with power, IMHO. Modern day examples includes Greece, Turkey, Brazil, Mexico...all have long democratic traditions.
@@wanrazul The Germans did not give Hitler power by supermajority. His party had a tiny faction of power, was allowed a figurehead position in a coalition government, and used a crisis to take unconstitutional emergency powers, including banning opposition political parties. The failure there was people failing to hold their government to their constitution and laws, not a legal reform. And they certainly had very little in the way of a sense of democratic values in Germany in the 1920s and 30s. Britain in the 1810s is a reasonable comparison.
You don't specify what eras you're talking about in regards to the other nations, but I expect similarly poor adherence to historic realities.
@@BradyPostma I'd be more secure in a fettered government, rather than hoping in the vigilance of the people. I'd rather have a government that is impotent, than one that is all powerful but betting on the unpredictable mob to hold it accountable.
On Hitler, they have referendums to legitimize him. His approval rating is high, and was genuinely popular. Same as Putin, Erdogan, Bolsonaro, Xi Jinping...etc. To ensure freedom, an impotent government is better guarantee than a 'good' politician.
"Not a set of laws. A sense of the rule of law!" 1:04 Christopher Lloyd's masterful use of the English language is unparalleled, provided he's given words like this to make sound like they resonate down from the ages. I love this moment in this series.
Zachs, I think that that quote makes an important distinction. If a country, a people doesn't have a respect for the rule of law, then really what good are laws going to be? You might just end up with the law of a dictatorship (i.e. where the dictator decides what the laws is or isn't). But it's also wanting to live in a country where the rule of law matters and is a respected ideal. If you have that, then you can build the set of laws and move forward.
It's like "time" giving a speech. Wish he was in few more episodes
They sound like they resonate down the ages, because they do.
if only the Gang of Socialists understood this.
@@googoo-gjoob if you’re referring to Biden and Co. they understand this better than the Republican kleptocrats in power
I love Christopher Lloyd so much
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
That quote by Margaret Mead is basically the arc words of the whole series.
Sadly, we see this with a small group of committed racists in the USA right now. Starting with our Racist-In-Chief.
@@JavierArveloCruzSantana and now another group tells you that... evil can be defeated if good men go to face it.
@@JavierArveloCruzSantana NPC wanker.
2:19 - "And Mr Zhubukov, well..... he wants the rent."
You'll get your rent when you fix this damn democracy
"Whoa Doc, this is heavy!!"
The 1985 version of "Yeah, Science Bitch!"
Is there something wrong with Washington DC’s gravitational force here?!!
"They love the roast beef." Iconic west wing line
This is, without question, my favorite guest star scene in the series.
"how many guys do you think it takes?" Gives me chills.
I'm always surprised at Christopher Lloyd's complexity I don't remember ever seeing them on West Wing and I think I watched most of the series a really fine actor great producer and great comedian kudos Christopher kudos!!!
Christopher Lloyd is an American treasure. So many great guest stars on the west wing.
This dialogue on the importance of the rule of law is so excellent. I love it.
I remember thinking how wrong Christopher Lloyd's character was when this first came on. All these years later and I get it.
No... he's still wrong. Then, now, and later. I bet you believe "Democracy" and "Freedom" are interchangeable words. They're not... they're antithetical to each other.
love the series and the words are exactly the kind that gets craved into stone... thank you, Aaron Sorkin !!!!!!! many many thanks
Everybody is talking about Doc Brown but no one is freaking out how Mr Zhubukov hasn't asked Toby for his rent.
I'd be more worried about him highjacking Air Force One.
He'll get his rent when he writes the goddamn Constitution!
Also how he wants to visit the monolith.
The *GREATEST* show in the _HISTORY_ of television
Ever since TAXI, Christopher Lloyd has been "hitting it out of the park" behind the camera and in front. He's had a busy career.
A lesson all sides of our system seem to have forgotten is that governance is what governments are meant to do. They are not meant to rule.
56 men signed the declaration of independence.36 men signed the US Constitution.
One of the most intelligent scenes in WW and there were so many to choose from!
One of my favorite scenes of the whole series. From tiny acorns, great oak trees grow.
Christopher Lloyd would have been such a good Leo.
Holy smokes Doc!?!? What's a gigawatt!?
This is a beautiful scene, about the importance of common values and a sense of the law for a democratic country. The rule of law is based on the belief of the people in the rule of law (much like the value of money). Trying to create a democracy after toppling down a dictatorship, as is common in several Muslim countries of late, depends on creating within the citizenry a sense of the rule of law, an understanding that the laws are only strong when they are respected, and that their strength is needed to ensure peace and growth.
Alas the American Republican Party seems to have forgotten those ideals and values of late-so have the people who vote for them
I'm a *little* surprised that Toby needs to have this explained to him; and that he doesn't already know who those men are. He's usually a lot more prepared for meetings.
Hmm, good point. I think they probably put it in to explain to the audience. (And it DOES make for a great scene)
Actually I was thinking they were going to have Lessig explain the Nevada case to him, but instead Toby was indeed able to answer his question :) As far as these guys' resumes, I'm assuming Toby knows perfectly well most of their bios, but Lessig was making a point to summarize who each of them were in a way that encapsulated their identities representing ideals suited to become the founding fathers of their new government.
0:12 Toby getting interrupted… so good!
I love how he ends it with how many guys do you think it takes both knowing there where 8 founding fathers
Exactly the reason why Afghanistan fell ao fast. We poured money into the country, propped up a government... but failed to instill in the leadership why these ideas are important.
Afghanistan fell because the USA handled the maintenance and supply and funding for the Afghan army and didn’t do a transition to the Afghan government handling those things. The Americans left suddenly without care for the Afghans and left their allies unable to leave to die
Okay. I will play. GREAT SCOTT! Kind regards to Christopher Lloyd and Michael J Fox.
"Well, I can tell that this is going to be a vibrant discussion!" And Toby has to laugh at that.
brilliant scene demonstrating Constitution vs. Constitutionalism
"Mr. Zubatov, well Mr Zubatov went all the way to Jupiter to find out what happened to the Discovery and it's H.A.L. 9000 Computer."
Holy Shit!!! Jim got off the dope and obviously no longer drives a taxi. Good for you Jim!!!!!
And he goes straight to the WH.
and somehow invented a Delorean time machine!
@@dspf68 With clean technology that addresses our waste management systems. I heard he earlier/sooner developed a love of trains.
Wow! I had forgotten that scene/ episode. That was a wonderful clip.
The whole point is that you need to start discussion, debate, and RESPECT of the opposition for democracy to have a chance of working. Without any one of those things it is doomed. That is why the US is and has been in decline for decades.
Geez, how did I not know that Christopher Lloyd guest starred on this show??
I always thought the opening of this clip was interesting. The way he takes issue with the commander not being the one who decides when to go to war is intriguing to me because, in my eyes, that's such an obvious caution to take.
A skilled commander may also be a warmonger. They may also know that their greatest strength is military prowess, whereas skills like diplomacy, tact, etc. may not be in their wheelhouse. Would you have wanted Trump to be able to declare war on a whim? Needing to have a secondary branch of government be the one that votes on whether we go to war seems like such a basic function that it always caught me off guard how the show uses that as an example of the US ignoring the Constitution. The document ain't perfect, and Lord knows it needs a few hundred corrections in present day, but that's a good passage of it in my eyes.
Considering the current situation in Minsk, this is quite sad...
Great Scott!!
So well written.
Getting goosebumps then kinda sad 😞
Doc Brown and Mr Ditkovich! What a world!
The key phrase is "democratic values already alive in the citizenry." That phrase no longer applies to the Republican half of the citizenry. And, the question "how many guys does it take" applies in reverse as well, and current events in the US shows that it doesn't take too many to overturn it all.
Being from Minsk, this scene didn’t age well
Great Scott!!
oooooh i forgot or didnt know llyod was in an episode cool!
Does the constitution have a clause about rent?
If they don't have a common law system, none of that will work and you need something in place now, or other wise it will be arbitrary.
Jeez, after January 6th, I wish we could invite some people from other countries to the USA to talk to our Republican party.
I never knew Christopher Lloyd guest starred on The West Wing...
Such an incredible show!
"except as a punishment for crime"
The US Constitution's "sense of the rule of law" came with it a built in loophole for forced labor.
It was really out of line when Tobey told that guy he'll get his rent when he fixes the damn door.
Looks like 'democratic values', ie. respect for the rule of law, needs to be re-discoverd in the US, it having been revealed how much they depends on unspoken norms and values, by the election of a President who respects only direct coercion.
@Jim Dandy 0 to Venezuela in 21 words. Gotta be a new record for the fascists.
"We"? Fuck Israel- 50 years of suckling at the teats of the American taxpayer are more than enough. No free rides for Jews, either. They wanted their own country, let them man up and fight their own battles. Feel free to buy a rifle and join them, @Jim Dandy
Wtf are you talking about? The rule of law was trampled and shredded by obama and Hillary.
@Jim Dandy You don't understand any of these topics.
@Jim Dandy Not at all. You repeated gibberish that were crap talking points meant to fall into your lap. I question everything all of the time. And I don't live in the U.S. I'm Canadian. Talk to me about quality of living, life expectancy, happiness etc. The United States of America is not the only democracy. It is not the only country with free elections, private property and liberty. Look at how other western democracies organize themselves and look at the results. Many Americans still believe that angels walk among them. They clamor for a strong man who will impose their will on others to return America to greatness. They eat up this crap and shout crap about Venezuela. Yet these same Americans followed the example of electing someone who had proven themselves populists with no understanding of government and the role it plays in people's lives.
Omg it’s Mr. Ditkovich!!!
Not to be nitpicky, but for Meyer v. Nebraska, it kinda says you can teach German in schools in the First Amendment. Academic freedom is considered an unenumerated right that follows from the right to free speech.
The state may enact laws prohibiting it. It is not free speech when it is teaching children.-- otherwise, teachers could teach whatever they want. Public school education is state regulated activity.
@@MrJamberee Any public school that receives federal funding must also respect federal protections for individuals. Including the students.
@@seanwebb605 Except that's not what the 1st Amendment, or the free speech clause, is about.
Free speech is about being able to criticize the government without being persecuted/jailed for it. Particularly the media, so it doesn't become a propaganda machine.
Soldier4USA2005 Thank you for referencing what you think you understand.
@@seanwebb605 You got corrected so you make insults???
Hilarious.
That just tells me you don't understand the 1st Amendment at all, let alone the Constitution.
because its the only thing that ever has.....
here from MIT
There is 3 and then theirs us 2.
Terrible to note that Belorussia is now a horrible dictatorship.
Pay me Government!
Season five was dogshit but Mr. Lloyd is a pro.
Lol the US constitution kinda sux, lets be honest
The broken algeria previously strengthen because development secondly spare an a statuesque canvas. descriptive, daffy rooster
We should stay of of other countries business, and just do business with other countries. China has the best foreign policy!
We'd all be Speaking German or Japanese if we'd followed that advice 80 years ago.
Javier Arvelo-Cruz-Santana We fought them because they declared war on us. For some reason the Chinese still speak Chinese for non interference in other nations internal affairs. They don’t export communism anymore.
@@bassmaster867 Chinese non interference in others nations affairs ?! That's a sentence full of paradoxes 😁😁😁
Very naive indeed...
@@marcosmartins7581 Americans cry for the lack of so called democracy in nations like North Korea or Iran, but are oddly silent when it's Egypt, Jordan, or Saudi Arabia.