i really appreciated this podcast !! i have a lot of respect for you and enjoy your channel so much. what would be the first book you’d recommend to someone considering veganism ? specifically the health-side of things
There are so many good ones! My top three favorites are "the Proof is in the Plants" by Simon hill, "Whole: rethinking the science of nutrition" by Nutritional Biochemist T. Colin Campbell, and "Fiber Fueled" by Dr. Will Bulsiewicz enjoy!!
I feel like there's so much push for omnivores to meet their "farmers." What about the produce farmers? How are they treating the folks planting and picking the produce? What about the pesticide exposure to those picking produce?
I was vegan for 13 years. I now eat high quality animal foods. Eating grass fed beef drastically improved my mental and physical health. I encourage everyone to drop dogma and listen to your body. 💚
Yup I agree! Health problems forced me to stop being vegan (organic unprocessed whole foods.) I deteriorated after the first year being vegan. I didn't listen to my body and kept it going for 5,5 years total. I had so many health problems. And lets not talk about the mental health problems I've had over the years. I now thrive with grassfed animal foods in my diet.
Vegetarian for 20 years, vegan for more than half of that period, including raw vegan for 3 years. I absolutely destroyed my health despite coming at this lifestyle from every angle I could. Adding quality animal products into my diet healed my skin issues, my digestion problems and fatigue, in addition to drastically improving mental health issues like depression and brain fog. People who knew me before and after have told me it's a night and day transformation. I'm sad that I wasted my teens and twenties clinging to the lie that plant based is superior for health.
I was vegan for a year. Whole food minimally processed foods, very healthy. I lost over 50lbs and thought I was super healthy. 9 months in I became so depressed I could barely function or get off the couch. I got pregnant and 90% of what I was eating made me throw up. I slowly added high quality animal products back into my diet and have never gone back to vegan. 3 years later and my depression has never come back at all.
I have to agree with you! Listen to your body.....People can drive themselves nuts over this stuff! This is over 2 hours off back and forth. I have found that a balance works best for me combing plant based with meat occasionally..The all or nothing approach is over the top for me! :-) .. I know because I have tried it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was vegan for just about 5 years. I ate VERY similar to Ellen and I “did it right”. I didn’t eat processed junk food and I supplemented everything I was supposed to. I was vegan for my health and my ethical beliefs. Year 4 was when I really started to see my health decline (hair falling out, awful skin issues, depression, anxiety, fatigue, brain fog, cavities, vitamin deficiency, anemia). I tried EVERYTHING to stay plant based but at the end of the day my body was failing me. I do not believe that everyone can or should be on a vegan diet. I am against factory farming still. I eat local grass fed meats and dairy. My health turned around very quickly once I added animal products back in my diet. Eating liver has been the best thing I have ever done for myself and my health. I looked into a lot of vegan studies and they use a SAD in their studies (comparing a vegan diet to a SAD). I don’t see anyone out here advocating for highly processed factory farmed meat and claiming it to be health food. I follow a pro metabolic diet and it’s been 3 years now and I just keep improving! Eating vegan clearly isn’t for everyone. I used to believe it was until my health came crashing down. With that being said, Ellen is still one of my favorite youtubers to watch because I enjoy her homeschooling videos and I really enjoyed this episode.
@@sarahozonline I’ve read and heard so so so many stories similar to mine. I genuinely wanted the vegan diet to work for me but I can 100% say with confidence it did not. I get how vegans can get defensive when someone talks about their experience with the vegan diet and it not working because I once was the same and now I feel that same defensiveness when someone says the vegan diet is suitable for all lol and insinuates that I must have “done it wrong”. By simply adding (high quality) animal products back into my diet my health drastically got better. I tried EVERY vegan solution before turning to animal products. I have such awful acne scars and lost collagen in my face that I’m trying to repair. I wish I would have listened to my body sooner and gave it what it needed to flourish but instead I listened to people on the internet and felt so guilty for doing what was best for myself and my health.
@@yma1233 I hear you! I tried too, I really wanted it to work as well as I listened to all the experts, bought the books (Campbell, McGregor, etc) and listened to a lot of interviews and talk shows. They had a very compelling argument but as you said, they never do comparison studies on grass fed, pro-metabolic people. Most people will see results when they cut out veggies oils and processed foods - that's a no brainer so it's really not a good argument. A lot of vegans, in my opinion, do not look great; wrinkles at a very young age, loss of collagen, pale, skinny to the degree you see loss of muscles and their collar bones. Not an attractive look, especially on men. Men look very feminised on this diet. I'm certainly glad my husband didn't convert or succumb to my wishes and I'm thankful my son's haven't suffered from the poor choices I made, but are instead thriving. They both love liver!! My skin, energy levels and sleep are at a wonderful point now from eating beef liver on a regular basis, plenty of dairy (because let's be honest that butter is bloody amazing) and eggs eggs eggs - love that "chicken periods" for myself! Haha!
Omg I totally relate! I'ts been almost 9 months since I added high quality grassfed meat and wild caught salmon back in my diet after being plant based for many years and having many health problems. Meat healed my mind and body. I wished I listened to my body sooner too.
One point, the 60s was definitely not "before the junk food industry". The 50s normalised nutritionally void TV dinners, sodas like coca-cola were a-plenty, McDonald's was taking off, Burger King and similar fast food chains (with no real regulations on what trash they could serve, like we have today), there are many examples. Junk food exploded onto the scene, and we were very naive to the effects leading to high rates of consuming junk. Not to mention that many people were malnourished coming out of WW2, leaving many in a weakened state. Canola oil became prevalent in the 40s/50s/60s, corn oil in the 50s. Also smoking cigarettes was at the peak of fashion in the 50s, we know that that does to the cardiovascular system. I just feel that some misleading claims were made with regards to the influx of heart disease that became apparent in the 60s. It would be more alarming if we didn't see a spike in disease during that time. There's certainly no way to draw a direct line of causation between meat eating and the high rates of heart attack in the 60s, particularly when many more damaging habits were taking place then.
I can recommend Weston A. Price Book, a dentist who compared primitive and modern nutrition 100 years ago and the disease comes with industrial food, all primitive people live more or less on animal foods.
@@andreaw.2234 Yesss, it's like basic book about nutrition, if you're already kinda healthy you don't need any other source about nutrition, and it's 100% essential for pregnant and for [future] parents
Totally. And people had been eating meat and animal products for thousands of years before the 60s so to suddenly blame everything going wrong on animal products is pretty narrow minded.
You are all right, the government doesn't have the people's best interest at heart, look at the crap food pyramid they were pushing on us for decades, healthy people dont make profits for the Pharmaceuticals and other special interests.
Death is natural ... human species consuming meat is unnatural .. face facts .. if you don't cook animal foods they are toxic and always need to be kept away from fresh produce ... you don't have it in you to eat a real dead animal
@@PageantGymnast LOl yea actually they are completely safe and it will never be the food itself to have an issue... do you not get that?... wiping off dirt or pesticides (if not organic) is not the same as cooking at extremely high temps to remove deadly toxins in the animals itself which is completely unfit for human consumption and needs to be cooked you can't just wipe it down or run it under water... LOL So, nice try but every argument against the natural human diet has been debunked... curious what other fallacies you got?
@@akademiks1090 You clearly are avoiding the fact that raw meat can be and is safely eaten in many cultures, see steak tartare, carpaccio, kitfo, koi soi, ossenworst, Pittsburgh rare, yukhoe. Not to mention many Native American and Inuit communities consume some forms of raw meat and they seem to be doing just fine and have survived for thousands of years doing so. I'm curious what argument you have for a vegan diet that supposedly works so well that literally no community has ever survived in history off a vegan diet so tell me now how much better it is? You can't receive proper nutrients and not just pRoTeIn from plants but, go off with your nutrient deficient ass.
I found it interesting when you claimed that veganism is more in alignment with nature, than a way of eating that includes both plants and animal foods. I respectfully disagree that it's more natural. Regardless of whether it's healthful or not, complete exclusion of animal foods is not something we've seen in human populations naturally/historically. It's a modern lifestyle choice to eat exclusively plant foods and we are still learning the long-term and generational effects of such a shift. I appreciate that you guys both stayed civil in this discussion 😊 lots of fascinating points were raised and I enjoyed listening to this.
@@cantocant2346 My experience was definitely that my body couldn't sustain itself eating only plants. In fact, the thing that forced me to finally reconsider my way of life? One by one, every single plant food that I'd relied on for nourishment since becoming a vegan started to give me crippling abdominal pain and digestive distress. I cannot begin to describe how terrifying it was, day after day I had to remove more and more sources of plant nutrition. I had at that point already been trying everything I could get my hands on in terms of repairing my health struggles within the limits of veganism, I'd been coping with a growing list of ailments after years of veganism and trying to remedy them via the likes of Michael Greger. But the final nail in the coffin was my body rejecting plant foods en masse. I am completely convinced that humans are not designed to eat solely plants, the length of time an individual can maintain it seems to vary wildly but I'm yet to see a long-term vegan that doesn't show outward signs of decline. If someone claims it works for them, I'm happy they're happy: but my support stops the moment someone attempts to push the lies that every human being can thrive on plants alone. Dangerous misinformation, it got me for a while.
@@SW-mp4qj We are talking about health and nutrition here. Now, if you talk about ethics, vegans should be the ones NOT TO USE cellphone, cars, or computers. These are all manufactured using animal products.
Love for Kori. It is brave to come on a vegan channel and go against that belief. I think she presented her information and self in such a beautiful way… was able to get her point across while maintaining her friendship. It’s very difficult to stand up for what you believe when it’s going against the majority of the audience and that of your friend.
loved this! was a huge follower of ellen while i was hardcore vegan for 10 years and enjoyed all of her content. while i have aligned myself closer to kori's way of eating, i've never felt better. i love these kind of conversations. we are all unique and require different diets! after 10 years of veganism, i had huge hormonal shifts, hair loss, tooth decay, intense brain fog, etc. i did everything and was an extremely "clean eater". i realized that as i was ending my late 20's that my body and brain was aging/shifting/changing that i needed more. my body needed the animal protein and fats and it was a truly healing experience for me. i will always be grateful for being vegan and gaining so much knowledge and perspective on the healing power of food, sustainability, animal rights and overall greater awareness of what is going on with our food system and how we treat animals. i will always try my best to buy as local and organic and support the farmers around me in my area. i would love to see massive change in how we treat/process animals.
People don't need animal flesh, that's onr thing all bodies have in common. This has been proven several times over and over again. Eating something because you like it is entirely up to you but claiming you ate very clean and felt sick and only felt better after eating meat is a false claim.
@@emmagracecoronado exactlyy just listen to your body, it knows best, not the mind 🤍 I know so many vegans who also do everything right but they are not thriving and also are not willing to admit that animal protein or fats might actually help them as they listen only what the mind is telling them. They are not listening their body 🙏
@@ceejay331 It's a false claim according to you and not the individual, can you see how brain washed you are? Both sides have been proven effective. Your only "easy" argument is the cholesterol, otherwise there is literally nothing you can say about animal products, it is way superior in nutrition.
You were probably eating a bunch of grain & fake vegan foods.. soy.. .. beans... proscessed vegan foods . You should of tried the alkaline vegan way of eating, advocated by Dr.Sebi. The key to a plant based way of life is nourishing herbs. No grain or soy. Growing your own foods organically is key. Once you grow your own foods you realized how fake supermarket organic food is. Please stop spreading false information just because you did not do plat based correctly.
I was strictly vegan for a whole decade, and at age 27 I was diagnosed with a very rare, late stage cancer. For those that claim that cancer is due to poor lifestyle choices, I exercised every day, slept great, DEFINITELY age enough vegetables lol, never touched any drug, never smoked, ate organic, blah blah. Chemo was terrible and at one point, my mom made me some homemade chicken broth even though I felt super guilty about it. It became one of the only things I could stomach, and I gradually started incorporating a little chicken into my diet. When I stared intentionally incorporating animal protein into my diet, my energy REALLY started to comeback. I loved being a vegan, but now, post-chemo, I am sO grateful for the animal foods in my diet that really help me mentally and physically now. People really need to drop this one-size-fits-all argument when it comes to food and health, it is harmful, antiquated, and completely useless.
Actually the risk of cancer is increased by poor life-style choices, I don't think anyone is saying it is caused by it, so that's strawman argument. And I totally get why you needed to go back to eating animals during your chemo, what I don't understand is why you need to continue post chemo. I'm about to watch the podcast, so I'm not sure what arguments they are going to make, but the 1 size fits all argument is this.., if you don't NEED to eat animals, then you shouldn't, and I'm failing to see why you need to.
@@timothylombard1510 He literally said why he kept doing it. "my energy REALLY started to comeback" , "animal foods in my diet that really help me mentally and physically". was it really that hard to comprehend?
In regards to heart disease peaking in the 1960s, margarine was first created in 1869 by a French chemist. It was originally made from beef fat. Over time, vegetable oils such as cottonseed and soybean oils replaced the animal fats, and by World War I margarine was almost exclusively made from these vegetable oils. That is only one food that is filled with seed oil before 1960. There were more and your possible answer to why heart disease peaked then. Processed food already existed long before 1960.
Also-wouldn’t the smoking habit of that time have contributed to heart disease? That was my immediate thought when Ellen was talking about heart disease peaking in the 60’s, I was thinking “well yeah, like half the population smoked back then…”
And so many foods with vegetable lard as my grandma called it. All the promotion of margarine and Crisco. I remember my grandma and mom thought they were healthy foods and TV commercials promoting them as healthier fat. I am 60 but I know too so many ate junk highly processed foods, smoked, and drank even before the 1950s.
@@joymontague251 Not only TV commercials and Ancel Keys, Procter&Gamble paid $1,7 millions to the American Heart Association in the 1950s which was an insane amount of money back then. They were only a tiny insignificant organization before that, the P&G money put them on the map. And of course they supported the "cholesterol is bad" lie in return which helped selling P&G's new product, Crisco
I agree all oils are horrible for you but the answer is not animal fat which can clog arteries its getting fats from the source which is nuts seeds and fruits.
Ellen I believe the incentive behind this podcast is amazing and coming from a place of love and intellect. It is crucial for all of us to avoid echo chambers at all costs. Only then will we be able to constantly question our own point of view and continue growing. I 100% support your idea behind intiving non-vegans and discussing the topics of health, diet and ethics with them in a nourshing and constructive manner. You truly are on the the OG vegan lifestyle youtubers and I would imagine dozens of people like me coul not begin to thank you enough for guiding us in to the life style! I loved all of your podcast episodes so far.
I was a long time vegan and it ended up not being enough for my health and body, I follow Kori and took her course and eat in a pro-metabolic style so it is nice to see my two inspirations collide in a video (:
Me too! It was the lack of bio-availability and my inability to absorb nutrients on a fully vegan diet that led me to re-introduce animal products. But I do feel like having been vegan it taught me to be more aware of how I am sourcing my foods. I admire both of them and how they can openly talk about it so respectfully because I've seen both viewpoints.
Same 😔 I was eating so healthy and tons of healthy carbs same as my husbands. But I still couldn’t get enough for my body. I have always lacked a lot since birth.
@@meagdur1 For me it was feeling off for a while and then getting blood tests done. I tried to fix my deficiencies through adjusting food and supplements the vegan way first and several months later I was just feeling worse. In a desperate moment where I couldn't even drive myself or my girls because I was in such a brain fog and had delayed reactions, I ate animal products and started feeling better very quickly. That's a very very short and quick summary but it wasn't an easy decision for me at all. Kori's course has really changed my life but it's so much beyond just eating animal products.
I only watch Ellen’s videos because I like to see the Hawaii lifestyle, but I love Kori’s content and agree wholeheartedly with what she is teaching others!
What “ vegan populations” is Ellen constantly referencing? To my knowledge there aren’t any vegan populations, nor have there ever been any? I enjoyed this friendly debate. I have watched Ellen for years and enjoy her content, especially about parenting.
@@cantocant2346 Not only supplements, also the modern breeds of fruits and vegetables shipped across the planet all year. Less than 100 years ago it would have been impossible to play plant-eater where I live, with a few exceptions there are no fruits and vegetables available most of the year, and no exotic fruits at all
im talking about CURRENT vegans today. So that means the Finish and Swedish and German studies took a group of vegans within in their countries and tested their levels. hope this helps clear any confusion
@@theellenfisherpodcast a vegan population is a vegan community, not a scattered people collected for some test. And we expect vegans to be healthier than the general population not because of their diet but because of healthier lifestyle. The general populations health is exacerbated with drugs, alcohol, tobacco, nightlife, and most specially, junk foods. Junk foods actually are mostly plants.
Elllllleeeeen!!! Thank you for having conversations like this so lovingly. Even though I don’t agree with you on everything, I feel like this is what our world NEEDS. We don’t need to agree on everything in order to treat each other civilly and to see the light and love in everyone.
I appreciated this podcast episode! I was Vegan for almost 8 years until recently (two weeks ago.) I lived a true vegan lifestyle, vegan for the animals. I never saw myself leaving the vegan lifestyle. I started to have health issues very suddenly. And through an ER visit, was told I was fine and it was just stress/anxiety. That did not sit right with me. I knew it was something more. I hired a Naturopath and that’s when I found out I was low in almost everything. B12 actually looked okay…not great but okay. It was all my amino acids, neurotransmitters, and other nutrients. That were causing the issues I was having. I lived the 80/20 lifestyle. I was very health conscious, holistic and natural… I took my supplements, thought I was doing all the right things. So… it was a big shock for me! I had a vegan pregnancy and breastfed my daughter for almost 3 years as well…all while being vegan. I see now through the bioavailability and missing fat soluble vitamins my body was depleting. And again, I felt good for a long time. Until it felt like my body was giving out on me. I have just recently started incorporating animal foods and the more I learn the more I realize there needs to be a *balance* of animal and plant foods. I appreciate Kori speaking about these things and I truly believe this is why it is so common to see people leave the vegan diet. I truly never thought I would. But you live and you learn through personal experiences.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I resonate with so much of what you said. I was vegan for 11 years until a month ago. My physical and mental health were in really bad shape. I’m also health conscious and holistic. I ate well and took supplements but my physical and mental health steadily declined over the past few years. I reluctantly incorporated animal foods back into my life about a month ago and EVERYTHING changed. I’m feeling better than I have in a long time.
@@janellemoylan5124 chronic fatigue, brain fog, gut issues, skin issues, hormonal issues, migraines, anxiety, depression and this year I started having suicidal ideations.
My symptoms were heart palpitations, dizziness, lightheadedness, nausea, brain fog, inability to fall asleep at night (it would take hours), feeling like I was going to pass out but never did, and of course, anxiety. I had to wear a holter heart monitor for 24 hrs… they found nothing concerning. Now working with my Naturopath it’s starting to look like adrenal fatigue and a thyroid issue. Which of course has been caused by a lot of nutritional deficiencies. Healing one day at a time.
@@ChelseaAuNaturel I started with pasture raised eggs. Then moved to 100% grass fed & finished beef. All from my local farmers market. Look for regenerative farms near you. I took it very slow as well because I wasn’t sure how we would react. Thankfully, no issues! I then started to introduce raw dairy. I’m working on healing and restoring for my body. And I do believe that I will eventually be mostly plant based, but again, I also think there needs to be a good balance between animal and plant foods. I no longer believe animal foods are detrimental to our health. I think that is a very narrow minded way to think. And of course, not all animal foods are created equally. I will not support factory farms.
It was delightful to hear a respectful discussion. My own view is that most people can't sustain full health long term on a vegan diet and that over several generations this would become very obvious. I am very interested to see what happens in the second and third generation of vegan families.
@@ChelseaAuNaturel Indians are omnivore or vegetarian not vegan, except for a few celibate monks. There are no vegan cultures which have sustained health and fertility over many generations.
@@ChelseaAuNaturel they aren't even vegetarians Lots of goat meat plus some don't even consider poultry and fish as meat🤣 Btw why you think they worship cows so much? Because it gives them MILK
As for vitamin A, checking vitamin A levels is somewhat difficult and there is a lot of discussion about it since it is stored in the liver, which means actually only a biopsy would offer any real insight, not blood tests. Checking for deficiency symptoms is very important, too.
This is so true and important to be aware of! There are so many misled people parroting "get blood tests" for specific nutrients that aren't well represented in the blood, but in tissues like our livers and even bone marrow. Our bodies work incredibly hard to maintain the necessary balance of nutrients in our blood, most nutrients are not stored in the blood though. So only in near fatal deficiencies will you typically see blood levels dropping for certain vitamins and minerals. "Normal" levels in the blood do not indicate optimal levels stored in the body nor do they guarantee that nutrients aren't being depleted at the point of storage. I wish more people would acknowledge this, and I appreciate you for bringing it up! 😊
The other thing is that vegans require much more vitamin C because this vitamin competes with carb intake - which is very high in vegans. There are vegans who eat a lot of Vit C in whole foods and can still be deficient because their carb intake is very high. Non-vegans do not have the same vit C requirements because their carb intakes are lower..
@@vonschlief3809 indeed. And this makes veganism a highly inefficient and also time and money consuming diet. Everything else in nature screams efficiency which is intelligent design.
@@andreanicholson5939 most vegan dishes have +10 ingredients and require a lot of chopping and prep time. Compare that to making a steak and baked potato
I really can't wait to watch this one. I have so much respect for you Ellen - for having these conversations with people you may not agree with! You're setting such an amazing example!
To Ellen’s point about vegans needing 1/6th of land compared to meat eaters, you cannot even continue to grow plants on the same land repeatedly without regenerating the land with grazing and raising animals. It’s a cycle that animals have a huge part in. It’s more unsustainable to grow plants and ship them across the world to cold climates than it is for someone to have a homestead and their own cow and grazing animals. If you haven’t noticed there has been a huge shift in people moving out of the cities and buying land to grow their own food and raise their own animals. That’s what’s sustainable.
Veganic gardening is a thing that regenerates soil using composting and permaculture principles. Also, someone can be vegan and have animals on their farm/sanctuary that are integrated into the system without exploiting or killing them. You absolutely can continue to grow plants on the same land repeatedly with or without grazing animals and raising animals for slaughter is a completely unnecessary point in that process.
Having your own animal and grazing them is literally the least efficient and least sustainable way of living. There isn't enough space on earth for even a single western nation to do that. There are just too many people and it reduces the amount of work that can be supplied to the rest of the world improving living standards for everyone, a double whammy of awful decisions.
Animal foods have truly been so healing for me. Especially oysters, beef liver, raw milk, butter, etc. However, I still eat so much plant food and would never want to be a full on carnivore. I loved this conversation!
@Paul Oh well I think we disagree on that point because the largest scientific, dietary organisations almost unanimously conclude that we can be perfectly healthy, and obtain all nutrition we need without animals ‘products’. Do you have reason to hold a belief, which differs from most dietary experts?
My husband eats meat and I am a vegetarian 🌱 I think it’s very interesting to hear this kind of conversations and how important it is to respect each other 💗 thank you for this episode 🙏
I love Ellen and her platform but after listening to this entire podcast I found that Kori was saying so much more often that she respects Ellen’s opinion while Ellen was just trying to come back with a counter point. I don’t think this was a fair argument though I’m sure a lot of it came from her passion for animals and plant based health. Just not super fair to judge especially when a lot of the world especially those in poverty do not have access to vegan healthful lifestyles. There needs to be a more common group and it almost seems like Ellen came from a more sheltered place due to her experience and availability to do what she wants to do. Nothing but love for both of these ladies but just my thoughts!!
I have to disagree. I think Ellen just had more counterpoints ready to go. If Ellen didn’t have a counterpoint, I think the next best thing to say would be what Kori is saying. I thought both did great speaking with each other, it was very respectful and both are great people.
@can to can’t It’s obvious that both of these women are beautiful, sharp, and thriving. I think Kori’s in her 20’s, Ellen’s in her 30’s, they both take wonderful care of themselves and physically represent both diet well.
Lovvved this conversation and how compassionate you each were. My frustration is a semantics-based one with the term plant-based being transformed into also meaning veganism. I eat plant-based, meaning the majority of my foods are from plants, and I also eat select animal foods to fill in nutritional gaps that can not be met by eating solely plants. Veganism and plant-based are two different ideas. The hypothyroidism that I was experiencing self corrected when I added saturated fats from animals. Which is not openly accepted, but my thyroid gland was chronically swollen and then returned to normal size after adding saturated fats from animals, that makes me want to explore more of the need for plants and animals for optimum health and not just one.
So interesting as I healed my hypothyroidism with a vegan diet. No animal foods. Obviously everyone is different, but it is incorrect to assume you cannot meet your full nutritional needs with plants alone. This is simply untrue.
I totally agree! I would never call myself a vegan because I feel like it is an entire lifestyle. It goes waaay beyond food. Eating a plant based diet is just that! A diet based on whole plant foods. It doesn't mean that you are cutting out every other food group. In my opinion (and I am no expert) I feel that whole fat greek yogurt is healthier than dairy free yogurt that has a bunch of additives and stabilizers. After watching this debate I will definitely do more research on what our bodies should consume to thrive.
You do you! but don't lie. There are no nutritional gaps in a correct vegan diet, there is nothing "magical" about meat, eggs or milk. You can find all the nutrients in different types of food, just in different proportions, that's all. If you're talking about b12... meat doesn't have b12 naturally, b12 is a bacteria that animals ingest when they eat grass but mostly it's injected into them. Inform yourself well if you are going to comment!
I love this. I ate a plant based diet for 2 years and it didn't work for me. I include animals products and have sooo much gratitude for the animals that God has given us for nourishment and healing. I also love plants. I believe in balance. Thank you for this open conversation. 🙏
@@uhohstinky5850 yep! I eat organic and pasture raised grassfed foods. But I also go out occasionally and get a burger with a friend and eat pies when I want haha 😄
I haven't even watched more than seven minutes of this, and already I feel the need to leave a comment thanking you both for putting civil and kind conversations like this online 🙏 Yes!! This is how we all evolve. We're in this together❤
Really loved this conversation. As someone that has shifted from veganism to vegetarian to eating meat again I’ve learned that Having compassion for one’s own bodily requirements and the way it communicates with you is also important. Food is a beautiful aspect of nature, our bodies are a sacred alchemical technology. I’ve learned the beauty of Giving thanks to the food and its source. Eat in ways that feel most nourishing for you. If one is plant based and recognizes that they are not thriving as much as they used to, being willing to extend kindness to yourself and switch things up in order to find the nourishment that your body requires is really important. And same goes the other way around, if one eats predominantly animal based, adding a little more fruit and veggies and see how you feel. Balance, compassion and the humility to listen to the body is key, 🙂 Thank you for sharing this conversation Ellen and Kori!
@@cantocant2346 What if I find that, how I feel, at this point in my journey, the diet for me is eating human flesh? Should I get really good at murdering strangers so I don't get caught and live my best life?
@@rasputozen That's an interesting hypothetical, but there's simply nothing unique to human meat that would require that. No carnivorous or omnivorous animal is required to cannibalize their own species to survive, it's just not the world we live in. Would you attempt to ridicule any other animal that needs meat for its own health? Humans are not naturally herbivorous, complete exclusion of all animal foods is a long-haul modern experiment and it doesn't work out for everyone. I used to think just like you seem to be thinking, and I loved the GOTCHA hypotheticals too... until I realised I was damaging myself. I hope this way if life is truly working for your body and that it continues to.
@@thenae8572 It's not so much that I need it to survive, it's just that I get so much pleasure/comfort out of it. I love hearing the screams of my victims before I dismember them. And the high I get from the control over them in their last moments of life I find exhilarating. I love the smell as they're bowels release on the barn floor. And the flesh tastes as good as any livestock and just as nutritious. I mean I don't HAVE to do it, not anymore than you omnis/carnys have to eat animal flesh. But still, at this point in my journey, it's just what feels right for me and my body.
I Love this conversation! I've followed Ellen for a long while now and I'm not Vegan but I've learned tremendously about a different lifestyle and I've implemented healthy aspects into my own life. We need more respectful conversations like this! 🧡
Where are the 'vegan populations' that you talk about, Ellen? The studies you mention here have 20 subjects here, a few other dozens there ... these are not relevant studies because of the statistically insignificant numbers. Also how long have they been vegan for? The body stores nutrients so these vegans may very well have had nutrient stores from the time they were non-vegan since veganism is a relatively new phenomenon. Talk about a big confounding factor: vegans could still have nutrient stores from their previous non-vegan days if they are newer vegans. Thirdly blood levels of a nutrient do not always reflect deficiencies and the RDI are rather poor indicators of normal levels, they are averages established by a small group of people and then updated every now and then, declaring the previous values too high or too low. There are special tests to determine a nutrient level inside a person's body which are more reliable and accurate than simple blood tests.
I really respect both of these women and have learned a lot from both of them. I wish Kori had shared a bit more about how she arrived at her pro-metabolic lifestyle and how it has changed her life and her health. I think her lifestyle goes beyond just the fact that she eats animal foods, but I feel like most of the conversation she was left to defend the fact that she eats meat. Different people thrive on drastically different diets/lifestyles, and it would have been nice for her to have spoken to why her pro-metabolic lifestyle is such a great fit for her and how it has served her.
Loveeeee this kind of conversation! I definitely lean towards Kori but appreciate both! The problem in my opinion is processed foods always! Hunting and gathering would be the ideal diet to me. I heard this in a documentary once that deer are either killed by a car, a predator or they grow so old their teeth ware down and they starve to death. So it makes a hunters kill seem the most ethical to me. I am very grateful for the animals who die to feed myself and my family! Loved this ladies!
Great conversation! It’s so nice to hear a conversation with two opposing viewpoints, being discussed by engaging the other person as a human, above all else. I would encourage you to listen to the Joe Rogan podcast when he interviews Joe Salatin of Polyface Farms. He talks a great deal about many of these questions you have asked, and in particular goes into detail about answering the question of how we can feed lots of people on a regenerative model of animal agriculture - it is indeed possible and sustainable. But guess who doesn’t want it? You guessed it, big agriculture. His farm’s practices are the antithesis of factory farming and he encourages people to visit his farm anytime they would like, saying, “Anyone is welcome to visit the farm anytime. No trade secrets, no locked doors, every corner is camera-accessible”. I also do agree that because of vegan activism, it has made more people turn away from supporting the horrors of factory farming and seek out their local farmers and engage them. Also, in regards to dairy - a family milk cow during her freshening period (let’s say, a jersey cow) can produce up to 4-5 gallons of milk a day, even when her calf is feeding off of her. Again, I’m talking about a family milk cow that lives off of pasture on a Homestead, gets to be a cow, grazing all day. That cow will be well taken care of and the calf will have access to mothers milk. If we imagine a model like this - it is completely different from the conditions of a commercial dairy operation, and it can nourish many families and also the excess milk can be fed to other animals on the Homestead. The important community aspect you were talking about, this would also be more developed because this cow would nourish a community and people will know where their food comes from. I know many people criticize raw milk, yet I question why they will trust the process of getting milk from a commercial dairy without seeing the process from beginning to end like you would with a Homestead milk cow. Also, raw, fresh milk is oftentimes a lot more tolerable to people who have a dairy/lactose intolerance. Again, thanks for this conversation!
How can you say there isn’t a seed oil industry????!!!! Seed oils are in almost all packages foods. Most restaurants cook with them. They are found in most Americans homes. There IS A MASSIVE seed oil industry that is very wealthy and powerful
These oils were aggressively marketed to us as "healthy" since the beginning of the last century, before that no one did cook with refined plant oils, originally they weren't thought for human consumption Nina Teicholz - Vegetable Oils: The Unknown Story: ruclips.net/video/Q2UnOryQiIY/видео.html
@@tomlauris The seed oil industry have investments to protect, hence the promotion of “healthy” unsaturated fats. Unsaturated fats work better for cold-blooded animals living in very cold environments (think of a salmon). In humans, they literally turn your cells into a plastic like substance
Love Kori! Her podcast and learning about and then implementing the pro metabolic principles as well as learning about Weston A Price principles has changed my life! I’m a totally different person a year or two later it’s crazy. And the animal advocate thing is a totally different discussion but as homesteaders we’re super passionate about raising our animals so they have a wonderful healthy happy full life and bless them with a quick painless death if it’s an animal we harvest. Much more kind then nature. Nature is not kind, wild animals left to themselves don’t have a good easy life most of the time. We try to make sure we know where our food comes from, I think that could solve so many issues if everyone started focusing on that. Plants grown locally and sustainably, animals raised kindly and well, etc. Vegan or pro metabolic, that’s the big thing! Stop eating processed foods!
I love these healthy conversations. So many times people are more concerned about shoving their beliefs down other peoples throats. Being a bully to get people to see things the way you do will only repel people who may have been open to the conversation. I am a huge promoter of listening to your body. Eliminating things and then introducing it back is HUGE in seeing how foods affect you. It surely opened my eyes to things I would never have believed. At the end of the day, we should all be open to information no matter what side of the fence you sit on. ❤️
Very, very difficult, if not impossible, to obtain one’s required fat soluble vitamins from the plant kingdom; A, D, E, and K. Vitamin B12 must be acquired exogenously on a plant based diet, because it can only be acquired from meat, fish, eggs, organ meats, etc. Other nutritional requirements are not met from the plant kingdom alone. Saturated fat along with meat is what has sustained civilizations for millennia. No known civilization or indigenous people group has ever survived without animal food, butter, eggs, fish, etc. Before planes, trains and ships (most of recorded history) one could not acquire many of the fruits and vegetables available today; most of which are a unhealthy hybridized version. True bananas (non-hybridized from over a hundred years ago) are actually very bitter sweet, are fibrous, have hard seeds the size of raisins, and must be boiled to be eaten. If you didn’t live in the tropics, you ate no coconuts or coconut products including coconut oil, coconut flour, coconut aminos, etc. Olives and avocados were also only found in certain limited regions of the earth. Please learn what your macronutrients are, which ones are essential, (fat and protein) which one is not essential (carbohydrates), and why. Understand that all fruit and vegetables are from the non-essential, carbohydrate macro. We’ve been eating high levels of grain as a result of the agricultural revolution which reached it’s peak in the 20th century. This is a relatively recent phenomenon. Maybe this is, in great measure, why we are now so very overweight, sick with contemporary auto-immune illnesses, etc., and have co-morbidities which set us up for serious, life threatening diseases. This is a matter of life and death. Your very long-term health is at stake!
Ellen’s been vegan for almost 15 years and has four 4 kids. All are thriving. She’s also not alone. By your logic, this would be impossible. The world’s largest group of nutritionists (including real dietitians) has published papers saying why they agree the vegan diet is healthy and beneficial. It’s not opinion or anecdotal, it’s scientific fact.
I do hear that. Which part of what was said above it unscientific or inaccurate, in all kindness? Another honest question. Where do vegetarians get Carnitine? Carnitine is necessary for muscle development and energy production. However, it cannot be obtained from plants.
For anyone suffering from kidney or gallbladder stones, eczema, psoriasis, rosacea, and other auto-immune illnesses, plz re-consider the vegan lifestyle. You don’t have to suffer. This video explains all about oxalate toxins found in plant foods: ruclips.net/video/ywSM954OYs4/видео.html
@@KetoGalAnn thank you for the honest question! Healthy vegans or plant based eaters do not need carnitine from animal products. The liver and kidney make carnitine from lysine and methionine, two amino acids that vegans can derive from plant protein intake. Other nutrients are required, including iron, and vitamins C, B-3 and B-6 for conversion. If you have normal liver and kidney functions and balanced nutrition, you most likely will not develop carnitine deficiency on a vegan diet. What I felt was unscientific was your first sentence. Our bodies are amazing and when healthy, nourished, and well functioning, they can absorb and convert everything needed from plants. Most people have not been vegan their whole lives and have eaten a conventional western diets for many many years before going vegan which is more likely a cause of later unhealth (along with lifestyle factors - stress, back to back kids, lack of exercise, etc) I believe than a vegan diet that someone has only tried for maybe 30 days or a few years of their whole life.
When you eat meat and other animal products, including dairy, you have no carnitine deficiency at all. And you do not need any pre-requisite vitamins or minerals in order to produce it in the liver. Carnitine is completely available, in the appropriate amounts, and completely bio available without any additional other nutritional elements required.
Loved listening to this and hearing both sides. I used to be vegan and am now following a pro metabolic diet. Listening to kori talk showed how much knowledge she has and it helped me learn a lot! I agree it is so important to have discussions with others who don’t particularly agree with you. We all have room to grow and learn.
Wonder what the time difference is between them in this discussion? 🤔 Wanted to hear more of animal based perspective and the nutritional science behind it.
Love you so much Ellen! So thankful for you and all you do! I’m vegan and my husband is a hunter. This may sound strange. But talking with real life hunters (not even having to interview them) may be something to think about. A lot of the thought processes you have with hunting etc, might be very enlightening to you if you hear from them directly, rather then what you’ve heard or researched ☺️. A lot of the things you are referring to can easily be answered by an actual hunter ☺️ So much so, that your points you were using as examples would not be strong Points. As a vegan and also close with the hunting community, the questions you are asking were things I asked when I had not much contact with the actual community in my real life and was not educated in it yet.💛 Just my two cents. But sooo much love!!
If we normalized where our food comes from then processing an animal should not be gross or distributing or “stomaching”. We are privileged enough to have grocery stores and be able to just grab our meat so the whole connection to food has been lost. Our ancestors lived the proper sustainable way while being connected to our food and earth. You could not sustain on a vegan diet with out the grocery store
It’s actually illegal to show much of what goes on in slaughterhouses for some reason but you’re right, if we could normalize it, more people wouldn’t mind it. Why shouldn’t we rely on grocery stores? Should we stop using cars, cell phones, and other technology enhance our lives too?
@@SW-mp4qj I don't think they were suggesting that we shouldn't rely on grocery stores or that grocery stores are inherently bad. The point seems to be that grocery stores have helped to create a disconnect from our food that otherwise wouldn't exist. Whether that's good or bad is neither here nor there, it's just an observation. People regularly bring up the point that if we were meant to eat meat, slaughter wouldn't disturb us so much: the logical response is that it didn't used to disturb us so much, until the disconnected way we access our food became the norm 🙂
@@thenae8572 Why aren’t there slaughter house tours though? Why can’t we see what goes on? I mean we buy blueberries at the store and are disconnected from how those are processed but it’s simple enough to find a blue berry farm to visit. I grew up up with dead deer hanging in my garage and processing them with my dad, it doesn’t bother me all. I also work on cadavers. Also doesn’t bother me because I’m used to it. I still can’t eat meat though, to me it’s all just dead flesh and nothing about normalizing dead bodies of any kind has increased my appetite for meat.
@@SW-mp4qj I'm not an expert but I'm sure there are many reasons people aren't allowed to parade into slaughterhouses to explore. Contamination concerns (they're dealing with food that can easily be spoiled), wasted $$$/time spent babysitting visitors (especially to avoid lawsuits if someone hurts themselves on the premises or around specialised equipment), and of course the fact that these days many people are disconnected from where their meat comes from and the negative emotional response isn't something a business would voluntarily invite. Overall it would be quite a headache for slaughterhouse owners, at the end of the day it's a business. There are ways for the very determined to visit certain slaughterhouses with permission from the owners, but it's just not common practice and I can understand why. It's fair enough if you personally decide that meat isn't for you, I'd never consider coercing someone into something they're not comfortable with. But conversely, for many people meat is a necessary part of ensuring their body can sustain health. As long as people who rely on animal foods aren't being pressured towards plant-exclusive diets, I have no gripes. I'd raise the point that your experience is just that, you aren't okay with the idea of eating meat for your own reasons and that's cool. It's not the reality for many people who reconnect with where their meat comes from without feeling disturbed by the concept, and that's cool too.
@@thenae8572 To your point about slaughterhouses, they can’t even legally be shown in videos so it’s not an issue of health or safety. The only videos you see are done undercover. A happy cow farm or family homestead will only show you the happy life of the animal not the slaughter process in their instagrams or marketing. That is suspect to me. I will always share a vegan or plant based diet because I have personally seen it help so many people. Take it or leave it if it’s shared with you. No one can legally “coerce” anyone to be vegan. That would rehire threats and force. I would never withhold the opportunity for someone to learn about veganism and decide for themselves and I am happy to try to civilly persuade someone. I would have never found veganism if it hadn’t been shared with me and my thinking challenged. I didn’t want to change how I ate and thought it would be unhealthy. I lived with a vegan in college and she never talked to me about her diet, I thought she was crazy for how she ate and she probably didn’t want to tell me so we could get along as roommates. Now I wish she had told me about it so I could have started earlier. The problem with sharing veganism is that so many take offense when it’s discussed because they get defensive about the morality of their food choices - this is especially true with farmers, hunters, and people who think they are buying “ethical meat”. I get why they feel the most defensive. You don’t see that type of reaction in people when people share keto diets, paleo, or anything else.
After watching and actively listening to the entire video, I am in tears. This was so beautifully executed. There was love, respect and information provided. You both kept it open minded, while also defending your own points of view. As a previous vegan of 6 years, to now transitioning into a pro metabolic lifestyle this hit home on all aspects.
I’m vegan for 11 years and lately coming up against the “woke culture” (including veganism) which I disagree with mostly and aligning with animal eaters more even though I believe vegan is the best. It’s strange.
Be proud that you don’t fit neatly in a box! That shows you think for yourself in an age of group think and tribalism. Also speak out against woke culture! It is fueling mob mentality and the majority of us are not into it!
Yes! I’m vegan for health reasons, but plants are subjected to unethical farming practices just like animals, both should be farmed responsibly, but excluding meat or including it, is not wrong!
I just think there is a reason most vegan women cannot sustain it post pregnancy. I love Ellen, I was vegan for 7 years, I still follow her because I love her content and align with so much of her and her lifestyle, and I just like her as a person and mother, AND she is probably the only woman I know of (and her sister Hannah) who has thrived being vegan after having children. And I know A LOT of mothers who were once vegan. After I had a baby I could not keep my weight on, I dropped to 95 lbs despite the fact I was breastfeeding and so hungry and eating all the time. My anxiety was through the roof and I resisted animal foods the first 3 years of my son's life. Nothing helped me like red meat did though... The fact that so many woman "fail" on a vegan diet postpartum has to say that SOMETHING about it is- at the very least- not an easy or intuitive diet to maintain (for most people). I have a theory (and totally admitting it is only my theory) that the reason she and her sister are able to do that is because they come from a really loving wholesome family and have experienced little trauma or high stress in their lives and have always been in healthy relationships (and I am not throwing shade like "oh must be nice." I think this is so wonderful and beautiful for them). MOST people don't come from such backgrounds and high stress in infancy and childhood and beyond literally demineralizes and depletes our vitamin and mineral stores and reserves. If we are already in a state of even low level stress/anxiety and cortisol production (which again, most people are just because of modern parenting, living, and education practices) then we cannot afford to be plant based. We need to LOAD up and almost "over do it" just to replenish what has been lost. If your mineral reserves were abundant and maintained throughout life, veganism will probably be easier for you to maintain. This is also totally epigenetic. Like we could have COME INTO the world already depleted and deficient because of our mothers. I will even say that in a perfect world free of stress and trauma, we could all eat more plant based. But to me it almost feels like a modern necessity for childbearing women to load the F up on nutrient dense foods. Again, just my theory. I loved this podcast, I love Ellen and Kori and will continue to follow and appreciate you both
This is a really good perspective to chew on, that there is SO much more than just the diet to consider on a person’s physical wellbeing. thank you for taking the time to share this!
It really sounds like you were completely overwhelmed after having your baby and it sounds like you weren't getting enough calories. I know several vegan women who have absolutely thrived during their pregnancy and after having their babies, and they aren't "privileged". I really think that people will look for any excuse to go back to eating meat.
@notme5744 I want to eat what’s best for me. “Excuse” has nothing to do with it. Grass-fed beef liver, raw milk and homemade chicken bone broth helped me heal during pregnancy this past year after I had become really ill and lost 15 pounds in my 7th month of pregnancy. I had mostly eaten plant based before that - lentils, kale, steel cut oats and fruit. It just wasn’t enough for me to replenish. We are supposed to treat animals right and care for them, but there is nothing wrong with eating them. That is a sign of this fallen world. I’m sure we’ll all be vegans when Jesus comes back and establishes His perfect kingdom without pain or sorrow. Until then, I’ll continue eating my grass fed meat.
@@estherruth4692 You can blabber on about any nonsense you like, but it doesn't change that you're just making excuses for your selfish behaviour. "Sorry I didn't do the right thing when you weren't looking Jesus, but now that you're here watching me I guess I have to. I promise I'm a good person, Jesus..." It's a fallen world because of attitudes like yours. You say that we're supposed to treat animals right and care for them... what part of putting them in gas chambers and sawing their heads off constitutes caring for them? If that's what you call care, then your parents should be terrified of you when you have to "care" for them. "Don't worry mom, I'm sawing your head off for pleasure because I care..." You can use pathetic meat industry buzzwords like "grass fed" (which means nothing, by the way) all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that you're abusing animals for pleasure. And you can convince yourself all you want that those disgusting foods you listed are good for you, but the science isn't on your side. They're bad for you and even worse for the animals. Grow up.
I love this conversation. I have friends who have very similar views to Kori, but I personally feel so much better eating a WFPB diet. Animal products just make me personally feel not my best. My friends and I are able to respect each other’s differences as well. I think it’s more common than we are lead to believe. ♥️
Really appreciate this ✨ I have been vegetarian for 6 years and vegan for 1 year - my partner however eats dairy and meat. We are both very respectful of each other’s decisions and support each other in exploring our health, with him now eating more organic and less dairy products at his own decision/and myself less vegan junk food. We both have each other’s health at our best interests xxx
Huge respect to Ellen, I love her but I feel like she's interrupting a lot and not letting her guest express her point. 🤔 Also, I feel like this podcast turned into her convincing people to become vegan. I didn't like when Ellen said it's not "relatable" when Kori brought up an example about hunting for crabs. I feel like Ellen could have responded differently and just said "okay, I see your point on that". I thought it will be more about her guest explaining why not eating vegan IS healthy as well, but it felt like Ellen's way is the only right way to eat. I'm a little disappointed in this podcast.
I agree. Ellen didn’t let Kori express her knowledge on eating animal based enough and kept interrupting. I too felt it was a push for veganism. It was almost as though Kori was interviewing Ellen. Sorry Ellen I love what you do but it wasn’t an equal discussion. Veganism is not our ancestral diet and it doesn’t work for a lot of people. Believe me I wish I could be vegan. I was vegan for a few years and yes I was WFPD so no junk food, but it wrecked my gut. Eating grass fed grass finished animals and eliminating most plants (not fruit) healed my gut. How about interviewing someone like Dr Paul Saladino or even Mark Sisson or Dr Cate Shanahan. Love your tribe Ellen. 🥰🤙
It's so cool that Ellen is facilitating conversations like this on the internet. It feels like it's so hard to have conversations between people with differing viewpoints in society these days without it turning mean and unproductive. This type of content is so deeply important! Personally, I believe that there is a different optimal diet for every person and that we should each try different diets to see what helps us feel our best and be at our healthiest. More fruits and veggies is a good thing for everyone but I think some people feel their best while eating meat and some people feel their best while not eating meat. I was a vegan for 3 years. I felt great the first year but in years 2 and 3 I became really anemic, tired, and weak despite eating leafy greens and taking iron supplements. I had almost no energy most days. Once I started eating meat again my energy came back. I think for my body I need the iron and protein that I can only get from animals. Thank you Ellen for producing this content. It's really important work that you're doing!
Wow this is beautiful. I'm so proud of you women. Setting an incredible example for this world for love, connection, learning and growing together. Thank you beautiful ladies of abundance and positivity 💖
I get an adrenaline response when someone disagrees with me (online) and I’m married to someone like you guys 😂 I am determined to be able to have the hard discussions and working at it constantly, I use any triggers as an opportunity to do just that and slowly but surely I am winning! 😂👍🏻🤗
I hope you can do another podcast that talks more about how you both metabolically eat in accordance to your beliefs. For instance, how does Ellen eat metabolically and how does Kori eat metabolically. Even to see one days entire menu where you both talk about the science behind why you eat what you eat when you eat it.
I love love love this conversation! I definitely would love to see more thoughtful, respectful, and constructive conversations like this in the world. Thank you both!
I loved this!! I’m a plant-based vegetarian so fall somewhere between you too but this was awesome. Even just the act of having two people disagreeing civilly was so nice to see. You’re so used to seeing people get nasty or flat out refuse to engage with those who disagree with eachother. So thank you for broaching that. I disagree with parts of what both people said but you know what? Who cares! How cool that we can all form our own opinions and thoughts on topics and live in harmony together. Only feedback would be that it would’ve been great to hear from the guest more. This ep really made me think.
Not vegan but I was vegetarian for about 5 years. Then, I caught covid and had terrible long-lasting effects. Malabsorption of nutrients being one of them. It got to a point where my body legitimately craved chicken so I listened, ate some chicken, and felt such satiation. I realized that my body needed this to heal. I incorporate modest amounts of animal product into my diet and am healthier than ever. Veganism/vegetarianism is just not viable for every body type. The ethics are great because no one wants to kill animals, but the world we live in has fostered this type of prey/predator environment and our bodies have evolved to require small amounts of animal product for full metabolic function. You don't need to eat meat and can easily thrive plant-based, but not everyone fits this mold.
Kori's take really resonated with me because I was recently talking about this with my friend who is deciding to go vegetarian because she doesn't like the fact that she's eating dead animals. I think many more people would be vegan/vegetarian if they had to participate in the killing of animals and many others would surprise themselves at their ability to stomach the process of killing and prepping the animal if they were exposed to it. Maybe in the wild people varied on whether they leaned more towards plants or animals. I totally oppose factory farming, AND I also oppose holding animals captive, but I do think hunting is the most ethical way to consume animal products. We don't think a Cheetah is immoral for eating a gazelle, yet some vegans find a human killing any animal immoral. The difference is that the cheetah either killed the gazelle or it got away. They didn't capture it and breed it for generations for their own consumption. Ethical hunting is similar in my mind to how other animals hunt in the wild. HOWEVER, factory farming has gone too far and many people lack the nutrients they would be getting from plants, so I definitely think more people should attempt plant-based diets. Thanks for the conversation 🤍
@@serenityhomemaking Well I think diets are taught and that there are aboriginals and indigenous groups around the world that would view their tribes and groups as having to eat meat. And that they interact with the animals in their local ecosystems similar to other carnivores in that ecosystem. I do agree that humans in our modernized societies no longer need to kill to survive but that doesn't speak for the humans in tribes in The Amazon or parts of Africa and India that are for lack of better words "wild humans" and still untouched by our societies and modern "moral" ideas.
@@uhohstinky5850 I know that it doesn't. I mentioned above that I don't agree with holding animals captive at all. That includes raising animals, in any conditions, for consumption. I even struggle with owning a dog lol I do recognize how the conditions like you mentioned in Quran are clearly better than factory farms though. There's clearly a difference but the fair game aspect is taken away when you're holding them captive and that's where I struggle with agreeing. I hope that makes sense.
@@uhohstinky5850 but that's just not true. They are not free to leave. How is that not holding them captive? The way you describe it does sounds pleasant but also twisted in a way. Imagine if your parents raised you to eventually eat you? I'm a meat eater by the way lol. I'm just trying to explain my logic.
@@uhohstinky5850 I'm not certain that we can know what feelings they hold on the subject, but yes I do add an emotional component to it because I think it's necessary. It actually feels more fulfilling to view it as a sacrifice rather than just it is what it is. We take their lives to sustain our own and don't return the favor to nature because a lot our bodies are decaying in boxes in the ground instead of giving back to the earth as the earth has given to us. Anyway, thanks for the insight. if I own enough land someday I might try my hand at raising chickens. Still not sure about that though lol
I'm so excited to watch this! I respect both of these women so highly, and I love both of their passion, conviction, and graciousness. What a great example of how people with differing views can conversate respectfully and in a loving way. 💛
@@Wooplot And it's not even the vegan population of today, those studies had 22 people, 36 people, etc. Not quite enough to use the word "population" in my opinion. It was a bit of a reach
Thank you for respectful conversation on opposing views! I can't discuss those topics with my meat eating friends (I'm on a plant based diet) as it always finishes with bad feelings on both sides ... We avoid those topics but still - I have many friends with different life styles and views and we treat each other with respect.
Welp this was good. My takeaway…you can be a super healthy vegan or a super healthy meat eater. You can also be unhealthy on each diet as well. Both ways of eating work for each person as an individual and whatever beliefs that you hold. It’s all about preference and what works for you personally 👍🏼
So grateful to see these kinds of conversations! Looking forward to so many more controversial topic discussions like this. Learning so much on so many different levels. 🙏❤ Thank you both.
I would LOVE to see you have Unnatural Vegan on your Podcast! I really enjoy both of your content. I can’t say I agree with everything UV says all the time, but I think it would be great to hear you both have a discussion as both of you do have some opposing views.
Unfortunately unnatural vegan has openly mocked Ellen and her family. She has made whole videos just to tear her up. Idk if she would be fun to sit down with 😅
Ellen is just such a beautiful human being and someone that everyone should have in their life because she is just so accepting and tries to understand others regardless of her opinion and that to me is a quality we should all have in society to grow and evolve..
Exactly… there aren’t any. And the Blue Zones that lots of vegans love to reference..are not vegan either. Blue Zones eat plant foods but also eat plenty of animal foods too!
@@tymaguire4175 If she meant that, she would have said that and not come off misleading. That’s why everyone is asking for clarification. Most, if not all the studies she listed are no more than 100 people tested, that isn’t a big study in my opinion. Again, there is no such thing as a “vegan population” so she shouldn’t have used that term so heavily throughout the video.
Big ag isn't just exclusive to animal products. Rapeseed or Canola makes up one quarter of canadian ag crops, that would fall under the "big seed oil" category you spoke of.
Many of us have learned and grown our own unique base of health/lifestyle from both of your platforms. I began watching Ellen years ago and have come to appreciate more Whole Foods in their natural state, incorporating more home grown plant foods into my diet, minimalist living and gentle parenting . With Kori, I am coming to understand more about how to heal metabolically, the effects birth control had on hormone balance and body function and ways to reduce stress and optimize energy production. There’s much that has been gained and learned from both that’s helped me understand what works best for my body. To me, there is not one right way. A healthy balance can be attained from both. Thanks for putting this out and being willing to have loving discussion.
*trigger warning* I'd to add an anecdotal perspective on the points your talking about at 1:46:00. I grew up on a hobby farm (we grew gardens and raised our own animals for food) where we were able to sustain ourselves mostly from the land we were on. I was taught from a young age that we needed to respect the animals and also eat them. I grew up helping my father butcher chickens, turkeys and pigs, I could never watch them get killed but it was my job to help after. The first time I was present for the slaughter of a cow was a completely different experience. The way it was so calm and trusting towards us, we fed it grains and it was enjoying them. One minute later it had a bullet in its head and was thrashing all over. Everything has to happen quiet quickly from that point on and it gets really messy, I'll spare the more triggering details, but this was the moment my heart sank, and I knew something was wrong. I was probably 10-12 years old. I finally went vegan at 26 and have been for 5 years. That moment always sticks out to me. It is not an easy thing to see, and I know its not easy to do it either. My dad always spoke about how he had to just do it to feed us, but it wasn't easy, he had to turn off a part of himself in the moment of their death.
If the world was to switch to grass fed or pastured meat, they would also have to reduce the MASS amounts of mono crops used to create feed and create all the plant based foods. This would free up more land for more sustainable farming, which would contribute to better food and cheaper prices, but the big companies would then loose money... follow the money trail... it's not about vegan vs animal food. It's all about money and greed. Either diet IS achievable, but unfortunately won't happen in this lifetime with corrupt big companies.
Loved this conversation! I feel like the only thing missing to seal the deal one way or the other would be to compare their own blood test results. They talk about studies lacking context about stress etc. The two of them are perfect examples of healthy living on 2 different diets. Would love to see part 2 of this with those results !!
I hope by you setting a good example to your followers on how to respond to people who think differently so that people will stop being so harsh. As an ethical vegan through and through, this definitely challenged my thinking and was hard to listen to at times, but I am glad I did to continue to hear the sides of people I disagree with :)
I subscribed to Weston A Price, Sally Fallon/Nourishing Traditions for 2 years after an inspiring and thriving younger friend recommended it. I LOVED the idea that I could add so many tasty, rich, “ethical”, foods to my mostly plant and hunted meat diet and it would be healthy! I loved the diet so much. Long story short, I experienced several health issues I believe were related to that diet looking back. I went vegan for the animals after some inspiring events, not for health, and my health issues vanished! It’s been almost 4 years and I feel amazing still! I fear that if I hadn’t made a switch to veganism, the cholesterol and other issues I acquired those 2 years of metabolic eating could have impacted me much worse as I aged even though they were minor in my 20’s. Great podcast!!
Good for you! That’s awesome. One thing I’ve noticed is that when a non-vegan diet isn’t working for someone and they get sick, they rarely make a big statement about it and they just move on to something else, maybe veganism. But when someone becomes “ex-vegan” they often make blogs and youtube’s about it. That’s why I wanted to share the other side :)
I love that ppl can be civil while discussing opposing point of views. I personally eat meat and don’t know much about vegan Eating. But I love Ellen Fisher and her channel as well as this podcast.
Love this! What a great conversation! I am plant-based and had all my blood work done at an extensive level from my integrative doctor and western med doctor and both results was at an optimal health levels. My husband lost 90lbs and his A1C is almost reaching pre-diabetes range. Praise the Lord! I really love this episode, Kori is a great guest Ellen! :)
I love how respectful you both are! That in itself is the example everyone should absorb! If we are eating vegan to be kind to animals but are unkind to humans for having different opinions, it seems like we are missing the point of “kindness”! We need more respectful debates like this!
this was super interesting! my main thought when it comes to promoting a vegan lifestyle, is if it’s really realistic for the majority of people. From a socioeconomic stand point, getting tons of whole plants foods is just not doable for a lot of people. Both of you come from a very privileged place, both living in an abundant area (hawaii) and having sufficient money to support that kind of lifestyle. As a college student, there is almost not way i could eat fully plant based AND be healthy without spending hundreds of dollars every week. Obviously this is a nuanced conversation and there’s so many layers to each side (vegan vs not). i just think promoting a lifestyle that is not sustainable for most people, is problematic at times. overall though this conversation was super interesting and i learned a lot! sending you both good energy :)
@@brynley4930 I don't generalize but vegans don't let up. They attack farmers, businesses and even shoppers. The internet became a rude platform of opinion because of them.
Ok, I am only a 30 mins in but I have to say I love this already and can tell I am going to be loving it all the way thru. I have a lot of relatability to both of you in how you communicate and your philosophies in approach to a balanced body and life. Also, I too am the woman who loves the difficult conversations and is endlessly curious and asks all the questions in wanting to learn more and do better while thinking for myself and embodying who I am as an individual. All the reasons you said why this can challenge some people has been my experience as well. Thank you for coming together to do this talk, really exciting. Enough with these diet “wars” already and let’s just get real and purposeful as you are both doing here.
I personally had a really powerful experience where my body was just rejecting all animal products, which I traced back to feeling this way from a young age. This eventually led me to feel the mind body spiritual connection between myself and the sentient beings on this earth. Hence why I'm vegan and will always be. It just makes sense for me personally. I feel this on many levels
Loved this conversation so much! It’s so great to hear an objective back and forth regarding anything these days, but especially something as delicate as the conversation around health/wellness and food. I love people that want to listen and learn, and it’s even cooler to watch in real time. ALSO- the enneagram 8 thing made me crack up! Two amazing passionate women who love to educate! ❤️
Not sure if you follow the Pope but his interpretation is different. He says it here: “Although it is true that we Christians have at times incorrectly interpreted the Scriptures, nowadays we must forcefully reject the notion that our being created in God’s image and given dominion over the earth justifies absolute domination over other creatures.” Source: LAUDATO SI’ OF THE HOLY FATHER FRANCIS
@@SW-mp4qj no I don’t follow a self appointed pope, I follow the real Christ, the Lord Jesus and He, through Godly men, wrote the Bible and His word is perfect and infallible! The pope can say what he likes, the word of God stands true!
I’ve been hoping you guys would sit down for a discussion like this once I started listening to Kori’s podcast awhile back. Thank you for the open, respectful and honest conversation!
I feel like Ellen emphasized over and over again the importance of nutrient density per calorie basically, and I wish Kori had said a little more about the clear advantage meat has over plants in that regard. No question about it. Feel like Ellen was a lot more on the offense than Kori. Totally fine as it is a (friendly) debate, but Kori was sitting on so many good points and counterarguments she just never used! Just look at this comment section full of former vegans who were forced to desist for health reasons.
Thanks for this podcast Ellen and Kori! I could really feel Kori’s vulnerability as I did not feel as though her passion and understanding of the pro-metabolic lifestyle really came through. I was also very surprised sugar was not mentioned at all esp in regards to heart disease. Ellen, I would love to see Dr. Mark Hyman on your podcast because he thinks some people can thrive on a vegan diet but also promotes a pro-metabolic lifestyle.
I just attempted to share your most recent episode with Dr Robert Malone, and lo and behold, it was deleted before I could share the link with my community. I was luckily able to watch the whole interview, and truly hope you will be able to repost it on platforms that support freedom of speech. Unbelievable that RUclips does not allow freedom of speech. Thank you Ellen for your good works.
Thank you for having this discussion Ellen and having a non-vegan on to talk about nutrition, I love how open minded both of you are and seeing the contrast in your opinions is super interesting.
I do appreciate open discussions and I really enjoyed this topic as an ethical vegan. However, because neither Ellen nor Kori are dieticians, I do believe a debate between a vegan dietician and an omnivorous dietician would make this conversation more credible in terms of discussing nutrition.
i really appreciated this podcast !! i have a lot of respect for you and enjoy your channel so much. what would be the first book you’d recommend to someone considering veganism ? specifically the health-side of things
There are so many good ones! My top three favorites are "the Proof is in the Plants" by Simon hill, "Whole: rethinking the science of nutrition" by Nutritional Biochemist T. Colin Campbell, and "Fiber Fueled" by Dr. Will Bulsiewicz enjoy!!
The book Preventing and reversing heart disease by Dr. Caldwell Esselastyn made me go plant based overnight.
@@theellenfisherpodcast thank you !!
I recommend the book Animal Liberation by Peter Singer and the youtube channel Earthling Ed which has all the info you would need
@@anotherashleytoo A plant based diet does not prevent heart disease.
I feel like there's so much push for omnivores to meet their "farmers." What about the produce farmers? How are they treating the folks planting and picking the produce? What about the pesticide exposure to those picking produce?
Good point. Also, tons of animals die because of plant agriculture. Vegans tend to ignore this fact.
@@cantocant2346 They don’t care that their exotic plant food exploits impoverished population then flown from half way around the world.
This is true but in Ellen’s case she does grow a lot of her own food
@@sitathisfeet5797 Vegan permaculture activist here👋
@@BlueNorth313 This isn't a fact. Garland Farms has debunked this
I was vegan for 13 years. I now eat high quality animal foods. Eating grass fed beef drastically improved my mental and physical health. I encourage everyone to drop dogma and listen to your body.
💚
Yup I agree! Health problems forced me to stop being vegan (organic unprocessed whole foods.) I deteriorated after the first year being vegan. I didn't listen to my body and kept it going for 5,5 years total. I had so many health problems. And lets not talk about the mental health problems I've had over the years. I now thrive with grassfed animal foods in my diet.
Vegetarian for 20 years, vegan for more than half of that period, including raw vegan for 3 years. I absolutely destroyed my health despite coming at this lifestyle from every angle I could. Adding quality animal products into my diet healed my skin issues, my digestion problems and fatigue, in addition to drastically improving mental health issues like depression and brain fog. People who knew me before and after have told me it's a night and day transformation. I'm sad that I wasted my teens and twenties clinging to the lie that plant based is superior for health.
I was vegan for a year. Whole food minimally processed foods, very healthy. I lost over 50lbs and thought I was super healthy. 9 months in I became so depressed I could barely function or get off the couch. I got pregnant and 90% of what I was eating made me throw up. I slowly added high quality animal products back into my diet and have never gone back to vegan. 3 years later and my depression has never come back at all.
Glad you were able to make it out of the vegan cult
I have to agree with you! Listen to your body.....People can drive themselves nuts over this stuff! This is over 2 hours off back and forth. I have found that a balance works best for me combing plant based with meat occasionally..The all or nothing approach is over the top for me! :-) .. I know because I have tried it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YAYAY KORI!! Worlds colliding!! So much LOVE for you both!! 💚💚💚
I was vegan for just about 5 years. I ate VERY similar to Ellen and I “did it right”. I didn’t eat processed junk food and I supplemented everything I was supposed to. I was vegan for my health and my ethical beliefs. Year 4 was when I really started to see my health decline (hair falling out, awful skin issues, depression, anxiety, fatigue, brain fog, cavities, vitamin deficiency, anemia). I tried EVERYTHING to stay plant based but at the end of the day my body was failing me. I do not believe that everyone can or should be on a vegan diet. I am against factory farming still. I eat local grass fed meats and dairy. My health turned around very quickly once I added animal products back in my diet. Eating liver has been the best thing I have ever done for myself and my health. I looked into a lot of vegan studies and they use a SAD in their studies (comparing a vegan diet to a SAD). I don’t see anyone out here advocating for highly processed factory farmed meat and claiming it to be health food. I follow a pro metabolic diet and it’s been 3 years now and I just keep improving! Eating vegan clearly isn’t for everyone. I used to believe it was until my health came crashing down.
With that being said, Ellen is still one of my favorite youtubers to watch because I enjoy her homeschooling videos and I really enjoyed this episode.
Same story for me, except I was vegan only a year and the result was my second baby being a low birth weight and health on the decline.
@@sarahozonline I’ve read and heard so so so many stories similar to mine. I genuinely wanted the vegan diet to work for me but I can 100% say with confidence it did not. I get how vegans can get defensive when someone talks about their experience with the vegan diet and it not working because I once was the same and now I feel that same defensiveness when someone says the vegan diet is suitable for all lol and insinuates that I must have “done it wrong”. By simply adding (high quality) animal products back into my diet my health drastically got better. I tried EVERY vegan solution before turning to animal products. I have such awful acne scars and lost collagen in my face that I’m trying to repair. I wish I would have listened to my body sooner and gave it what it needed to flourish but instead I listened to people on the internet and felt so guilty for doing what was best for myself and my health.
@@yma1233 I hear you! I tried too, I really wanted it to work as well as I listened to all the experts, bought the books (Campbell, McGregor, etc) and listened to a lot of interviews and talk shows. They had a very compelling argument but as you said, they never do comparison studies on grass fed, pro-metabolic people. Most people will see results when they cut out veggies oils and processed foods - that's a no brainer so it's really not a good argument. A lot of vegans, in my opinion, do not look great; wrinkles at a very young age, loss of collagen, pale, skinny to the degree you see loss of muscles and their collar bones. Not an attractive look, especially on men. Men look very feminised on this diet. I'm certainly glad my husband didn't convert or succumb to my wishes and I'm thankful my son's haven't suffered from the poor choices I made, but are instead thriving. They both love liver!! My skin, energy levels and sleep are at a wonderful point now from eating beef liver on a regular basis, plenty of dairy (because let's be honest that butter is bloody amazing) and eggs eggs eggs - love that "chicken periods" for myself! Haha!
Omg I totally relate! I'ts been almost 9 months since I added high quality grassfed meat and wild caught salmon back in my diet after being plant based for many years and having many health problems. Meat healed my mind and body. I wished I listened to my body sooner too.
saaaaaame. i wrote on instagram about why i'm not vegan anymore and one of the reasons was my health and my body screaming at me to change my diet.
One point, the 60s was definitely not "before the junk food industry". The 50s normalised nutritionally void TV dinners, sodas like coca-cola were a-plenty, McDonald's was taking off, Burger King and similar fast food chains (with no real regulations on what trash they could serve, like we have today), there are many examples. Junk food exploded onto the scene, and we were very naive to the effects leading to high rates of consuming junk. Not to mention that many people were malnourished coming out of WW2, leaving many in a weakened state. Canola oil became prevalent in the 40s/50s/60s, corn oil in the 50s. Also smoking cigarettes was at the peak of fashion in the 50s, we know that that does to the cardiovascular system.
I just feel that some misleading claims were made with regards to the influx of heart disease that became apparent in the 60s. It would be more alarming if we didn't see a spike in disease during that time. There's certainly no way to draw a direct line of causation between meat eating and the high rates of heart attack in the 60s, particularly when many more damaging habits were taking place then.
I can recommend Weston A. Price Book, a dentist who compared primitive and modern nutrition 100 years ago and the disease comes with industrial food, all primitive people live more or less on animal foods.
@@andreaw.2234 Yesss, it's like basic book about nutrition, if you're already kinda healthy you don't need any other source about nutrition, and it's 100% essential for pregnant and for [future] parents
@@cantocant2346 exactly not just meat. Everyone needs a balanced whole food diet vegan or not.
Totally. And people had been eating meat and animal products for thousands of years before the 60s so to suddenly blame everything going wrong on animal products is pretty narrow minded.
You are all right, the government doesn't have the people's best interest at heart, look at the crap food pyramid they were pushing on us for decades, healthy people dont make profits for the Pharmaceuticals and other special interests.
Death is required for nutrient dense soil. The life and death cycle is beautiful and crucial.
Dont tell this clueless vegan lady
Death is natural ... human species consuming meat is unnatural .. face facts .. if you don't cook animal foods they are toxic and always need to be kept away from fresh produce ... you don't have it in you to eat a real dead animal
@@akademiks1090 yeah because your plants that come from the ground are much cleaner and safe to immediately consume right?
@@PageantGymnast LOl yea actually they are completely safe and it will never be the food itself to have an issue... do you not get that?... wiping off dirt or pesticides (if not organic) is not the same as cooking at extremely high temps to remove deadly toxins in the animals itself which is completely unfit for human consumption and needs to be cooked you can't just wipe it down or run it under water... LOL So, nice try but every argument against the natural human diet has been debunked... curious what other fallacies you got?
@@akademiks1090 You clearly are avoiding the fact that raw meat can be and is safely eaten in many cultures, see steak tartare, carpaccio, kitfo, koi soi, ossenworst, Pittsburgh rare, yukhoe. Not to mention many Native American and Inuit communities consume some forms of raw meat and they seem to be doing just fine and have survived for thousands of years doing so. I'm curious what argument you have for a vegan diet that supposedly works so well that literally no community has ever survived in history off a vegan diet so tell me now how much better it is? You can't receive proper nutrients and not just pRoTeIn from plants but, go off with your nutrient deficient ass.
I found it interesting when you claimed that veganism is more in alignment with nature, than a way of eating that includes both plants and animal foods. I respectfully disagree that it's more natural. Regardless of whether it's healthful or not, complete exclusion of animal foods is not something we've seen in human populations naturally/historically. It's a modern lifestyle choice to eat exclusively plant foods and we are still learning the long-term and generational effects of such a shift.
I appreciate that you guys both stayed civil in this discussion 😊 lots of fascinating points were raised and I enjoyed listening to this.
@@cantocant2346 My experience was definitely that my body couldn't sustain itself eating only plants. In fact, the thing that forced me to finally reconsider my way of life? One by one, every single plant food that I'd relied on for nourishment since becoming a vegan started to give me crippling abdominal pain and digestive distress. I cannot begin to describe how terrifying it was, day after day I had to remove more and more sources of plant nutrition. I had at that point already been trying everything I could get my hands on in terms of repairing my health struggles within the limits of veganism, I'd been coping with a growing list of ailments after years of veganism and trying to remedy them via the likes of Michael Greger. But the final nail in the coffin was my body rejecting plant foods en masse. I am completely convinced that humans are not designed to eat solely plants, the length of time an individual can maintain it seems to vary wildly but I'm yet to see a long-term vegan that doesn't show outward signs of decline. If someone claims it works for them, I'm happy they're happy: but my support stops the moment someone attempts to push the lies that every human being can thrive on plants alone. Dangerous misinformation, it got me for a while.
@Tabitha Pacheco by your logic, would you skip modern medicine, modern housing, cell phones, cars… ? None of these things exist in nature.
@@SW-mp4qj We are talking about health and nutrition here. Now, if you talk about ethics, vegans should be the ones NOT TO USE cellphone, cars, or computers. These are all manufactured using animal products.
@@TabiMcArdle Legit answer?
@@FoodieOmni Veganism seeks to reduce animal harm as much as practical. It’s not perfectionism. You’re being quite extreme.
Love for Kori. It is brave to come on a vegan channel and go against that belief. I think she presented her information and self in such a beautiful way… was able to get her point across while maintaining her friendship. It’s very difficult to stand up for what you believe when it’s going against the majority of the audience and that of your friend.
The proof is in the pudding. Kori looks radiant and vibrant and alive. Her skin and hair are glowing.
This is a vegan channel? I didn’t even realize. I came here for the birth stuff.
I came for one episode of the homeschooling lol @@estherruth4692
sooo much more Team Kori! She's also so much more at peace..
loved this! was a huge follower of ellen while i was hardcore vegan for 10 years and enjoyed all of her content. while i have aligned myself closer to kori's way of eating, i've never felt better. i love these kind of conversations. we are all unique and require different diets! after 10 years of veganism, i had huge hormonal shifts, hair loss, tooth decay, intense brain fog, etc. i did everything and was an extremely "clean eater". i realized that as i was ending my late 20's that my body and brain was aging/shifting/changing that i needed more. my body needed the animal protein and fats and it was a truly healing experience for me. i will always be grateful for being vegan and gaining so much knowledge and perspective on the healing power of food, sustainability, animal rights and overall greater awareness of what is going on with our food system and how we treat animals. i will always try my best to buy as local and organic and support the farmers around me in my area. i would love to see massive change in how we treat/process animals.
People don't need animal flesh, that's onr thing all bodies have in common. This has been proven several times over and over again. Eating something because you like it is entirely up to you but claiming you ate very clean and felt sick and only felt better after eating meat is a false claim.
@@ceejay331 not a false claim when I am the one living in my body and thriving now. Not every body is designed to be vegan. Do what works for you ✌🏼
@@emmagracecoronado exactlyy just listen to your body, it knows best, not the mind 🤍 I know so many vegans who also do everything right but they are not thriving and also are not willing to admit that animal protein or fats might actually help them as they listen only what the mind is telling them. They are not listening their body 🙏
@@ceejay331 It's a false claim according to you and not the individual, can you see how brain washed you are? Both sides have been proven effective. Your only "easy" argument is the cholesterol, otherwise there is literally nothing you can say about animal products, it is way superior in nutrition.
You were probably eating a bunch of grain & fake vegan foods.. soy.. .. beans... proscessed vegan foods . You should of tried the alkaline vegan way of eating, advocated by Dr.Sebi. The key to a plant based way of life is nourishing herbs. No grain or soy. Growing your own foods organically is key. Once you grow your own foods you realized how fake supermarket organic food is. Please stop spreading false information just because you did not do plat based correctly.
I was strictly vegan for a whole decade, and at age 27 I was diagnosed with a very rare, late stage cancer. For those that claim that cancer is due to poor lifestyle choices, I exercised every day, slept great, DEFINITELY age enough vegetables lol, never touched any drug, never smoked, ate organic, blah blah. Chemo was terrible and at one point, my mom made me some homemade chicken broth even though I felt super guilty about it. It became one of the only things I could stomach, and I gradually started incorporating a little chicken into my diet. When I stared intentionally incorporating animal protein into my diet, my energy REALLY started to comeback. I loved being a vegan, but now, post-chemo, I am sO grateful for the animal foods in my diet that really help me mentally and physically now. People really need to drop this one-size-fits-all argument when it comes to food and health, it is harmful, antiquated, and completely useless.
Did you ask for it?
@@veganevolution ask for what?
Actually the risk of cancer is increased by poor life-style choices, I don't think anyone is saying it is caused by it, so that's strawman argument. And I totally get why you needed to go back to eating animals during your chemo, what I don't understand is why you need to continue post chemo. I'm about to watch the podcast, so I'm not sure what arguments they are going to make, but the 1 size fits all argument is this.., if you don't NEED to eat animals, then you shouldn't, and I'm failing to see why you need to.
@@timothylombard1510 exactly.
@@timothylombard1510 He literally said why he kept doing it. "my energy REALLY started to comeback" , "animal foods in my diet that really help me mentally and physically". was it really that hard to comprehend?
In regards to heart disease peaking in the 1960s, margarine was first created in 1869 by a French chemist. It was originally made from beef fat. Over time, vegetable oils such as cottonseed and soybean oils replaced the animal fats, and by World War I margarine was almost exclusively made from these vegetable oils. That is only one food that is filled with seed oil before 1960. There were more and your possible answer to why heart disease peaked then. Processed food already existed long before 1960.
Also-wouldn’t the smoking habit of that time have contributed to heart disease? That was my immediate thought when Ellen was talking about heart disease peaking in the 60’s, I was thinking “well yeah, like half the population smoked back then…”
And so many foods with vegetable lard as my grandma called it. All the promotion of margarine and Crisco. I remember my grandma and mom thought they were healthy foods and TV commercials promoting them as healthier fat. I am 60 but I know too so many ate junk highly processed foods, smoked, and drank even before the 1950s.
@@joymontague251 Not only TV commercials and Ancel Keys, Procter&Gamble paid $1,7 millions to the American Heart Association in the 1950s which was an insane amount of money back then. They were only a tiny insignificant organization before that, the P&G money put them on the map. And of course they supported the "cholesterol is bad" lie in return which helped selling P&G's new product, Crisco
I agree all oils are horrible for you but the answer is not animal fat which can clog arteries its getting fats from the source which is nuts seeds and fruits.
Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon discusses both sides of the argument further in depth, if anyone is interested. God bless and keep you.
AMAZING Resource! I have both. They’re incredible.
Ellen I believe the incentive behind this podcast is amazing and coming from a place of love and intellect. It is crucial for all of us to avoid echo chambers at all costs. Only then will we be able to constantly question our own point of view and continue growing. I 100% support your idea behind intiving non-vegans and discussing the topics of health, diet and ethics with them in a nourshing and constructive manner. You truly are on the the OG vegan lifestyle youtubers and I would imagine dozens of people like me coul not begin to thank you enough for guiding us in to the life style! I loved all of your podcast episodes so far.
I was a long time vegan and it ended up not being enough for my health and body, I follow Kori and took her course and eat in a pro-metabolic style so it is nice to see my two inspirations collide in a video (:
Me too! It was the lack of bio-availability and my inability to absorb nutrients on a fully vegan diet that led me to re-introduce animal products. But I do feel like having been vegan it taught me to be more aware of how I am sourcing my foods. I admire both of them and how they can openly talk about it so respectfully because I've seen both viewpoints.
Same 😔 I was eating so healthy and tons of healthy carbs same as my husbands. But I still couldn’t get enough for my body. I have always lacked a lot since birth.
What did your blood tests show you were deficient in as a vegan?
Curious to know how you all knew you were no getting enough/not absorbing nutrients? Blood tests or just feeling badly?
@@meagdur1 For me it was feeling off for a while and then getting blood tests done. I tried to fix my deficiencies through adjusting food and supplements the vegan way first and several months later I was just feeling worse. In a desperate moment where I couldn't even drive myself or my girls because I was in such a brain fog and had delayed reactions, I ate animal products and started feeling better very quickly. That's a very very short and quick summary but it wasn't an easy decision for me at all. Kori's course has really changed my life but it's so much beyond just eating animal products.
I only watch Ellen’s videos because I like to see the Hawaii lifestyle, but I love Kori’s content and agree wholeheartedly with what she is teaching others!
Same! I want to see the Hawaii lifestyle but the vegan lifestyle is so loud! I wish Kori would start a RUclips!
What “ vegan populations” is Ellen constantly referencing? To my knowledge there aren’t any vegan populations, nor have there ever been any? I enjoyed this friendly debate. I have watched Ellen for years and enjoy her content, especially about parenting.
@@cantocant2346 Not only supplements, also the modern breeds of fruits and vegetables shipped across the planet all year. Less than 100 years ago it would have been impossible to play plant-eater where I live, with a few exceptions there are no fruits and vegetables available most of the year, and no exotic fruits at all
She needs to see this comment. I was so confused when she said it so many times …
im talking about CURRENT vegans today. So that means the Finish and Swedish and German studies took a group of vegans within in their countries and tested their levels. hope this helps clear any confusion
@@theellenfisherpodcast a vegan population is a vegan community, not a scattered people collected for some test. And we expect vegans to be healthier than the general population not because of their diet but because of healthier lifestyle. The general populations health is exacerbated with drugs, alcohol, tobacco, nightlife, and most specially, junk foods. Junk foods actually are mostly plants.
@@theellenfisherpodcast 👍👏👏
Elllllleeeeen!!! Thank you for having conversations like this so lovingly. Even though I don’t agree with you on everything, I feel like this is what our world NEEDS. We don’t need to agree on everything in order to treat each other civilly and to see the light and love in everyone.
I appreciated this podcast episode! I was Vegan for almost 8 years until recently (two weeks ago.) I lived a true vegan lifestyle, vegan for the animals. I never saw myself leaving the vegan lifestyle. I started to have health issues very suddenly. And through an ER visit, was told I was fine and it was just stress/anxiety. That did not sit right with me. I knew it was something more. I hired a Naturopath and that’s when I found out I was low in almost everything. B12 actually looked okay…not great but okay. It was all my amino acids, neurotransmitters, and other nutrients. That were causing the issues I was having. I lived the 80/20 lifestyle. I was very health conscious, holistic and natural… I took my supplements, thought I was doing all the right things. So… it was a big shock for me! I had a vegan pregnancy and breastfed my daughter for almost 3 years as well…all while being vegan. I see now through the bioavailability and missing fat soluble vitamins my body was depleting. And again, I felt good for a long time. Until it felt like my body was giving out on me. I have just recently started incorporating animal foods and the more I learn the more I realize there needs to be a *balance* of animal and plant foods. I appreciate Kori speaking about these things and I truly believe this is why it is so common to see people leave the vegan diet. I truly never thought I would. But you live and you learn through personal experiences.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I resonate with so much of what you said. I was vegan for 11 years until a month ago. My physical and mental health were in really bad shape. I’m also health conscious and holistic. I ate well and took supplements but my physical and mental health steadily declined over the past few years. I reluctantly incorporated animal foods back into my life about a month ago and EVERYTHING changed. I’m feeling better than I have in a long time.
What were your symptoms? Thanks for sharing. Glad you both are feeling better.
@@janellemoylan5124 chronic fatigue, brain fog, gut issues, skin issues, hormonal issues, migraines, anxiety, depression and this year I started having suicidal ideations.
My symptoms were heart palpitations, dizziness, lightheadedness, nausea, brain fog, inability to fall asleep at night (it would take hours), feeling like I was going to pass out but never did, and of course, anxiety. I had to wear a holter heart monitor for 24 hrs… they found nothing concerning. Now working with my Naturopath it’s starting to look like adrenal fatigue and a thyroid issue. Which of course has been caused by a lot of nutritional deficiencies. Healing one day at a time.
@@ChelseaAuNaturel I started with pasture raised eggs. Then moved to 100% grass fed & finished beef. All from my local farmers market. Look for regenerative farms near you. I took it very slow as well because I wasn’t sure how we would react. Thankfully, no issues! I then started to introduce raw dairy. I’m working on healing and restoring for my body. And I do believe that I will eventually be mostly plant based, but again, I also think there needs to be a good balance between animal and plant foods. I no longer believe animal foods are detrimental to our health. I think that is a very narrow minded way to think. And of course, not all animal foods are created equally. I will not support factory farms.
It was delightful to hear a respectful discussion. My own view is that most people can't sustain full health long term on a vegan diet and that over several generations this would become very obvious. I am very interested to see what happens in the second and third generation of vegan families.
@@ChelseaAuNaturel Indians are omnivore or vegetarian not vegan, except for a few celibate monks. There are no vegan cultures which have sustained health and fertility over many generations.
@@ChelseaAuNaturel 👏
@@ChelseaAuNaturel No, most are lacto veg. A few monks do vegan but it is unusual in the general population. In any case Indians have terrible health.
@@ChelseaAuNaturel they aren't even vegetarians
Lots of goat meat plus some don't even consider poultry and fish as meat🤣
Btw why you think they worship cows so much? Because it gives them MILK
@@vix7146 For yogurt 😋
As for vitamin A, checking vitamin A levels is somewhat difficult and there is a lot of discussion about it since it is stored in the liver, which means actually only a biopsy would offer any real insight, not blood tests. Checking for deficiency symptoms is very important, too.
This is so true and important to be aware of! There are so many misled people parroting "get blood tests" for specific nutrients that aren't well represented in the blood, but in tissues like our livers and even bone marrow.
Our bodies work incredibly hard to maintain the necessary balance of nutrients in our blood, most nutrients are not stored in the blood though. So only in near fatal deficiencies will you typically see blood levels dropping for certain vitamins and minerals. "Normal" levels in the blood do not indicate optimal levels stored in the body nor do they guarantee that nutrients aren't being depleted at the point of storage. I wish more people would acknowledge this, and I appreciate you for bringing it up! 😊
The other thing is that vegans require much more vitamin C because this vitamin competes with carb intake - which is very high in vegans. There are vegans who eat a lot of Vit C in whole foods and can still be deficient because their carb intake is very high. Non-vegans do not have the same vit C requirements because their carb intakes are lower..
@@andreanicholson5939 vegan is a low nutrition, high calorie diet
@@vonschlief3809 indeed. And this makes veganism a highly inefficient and also time and money consuming diet. Everything else in nature screams efficiency which is intelligent design.
@@andreanicholson5939 most vegan dishes have +10 ingredients and require a lot of chopping and prep time. Compare that to making a steak and baked potato
I really can't wait to watch this one. I have so much respect for you Ellen - for having these conversations with people you may not agree with! You're setting such an amazing example!
To Ellen’s point about vegans needing 1/6th of land compared to meat eaters, you cannot even continue to grow plants on the same land repeatedly without regenerating the land with grazing and raising animals. It’s a cycle that animals have a huge part in. It’s more unsustainable to grow plants and ship them across the world to cold climates than it is for someone to have a homestead and their own cow and grazing animals. If you haven’t noticed there has been a huge shift in people moving out of the cities and buying land to grow their own food and raise their own animals. That’s what’s sustainable.
Veganic gardening is a thing that regenerates soil using composting and permaculture principles. Also, someone can be vegan and have animals on their farm/sanctuary that are integrated into the system without exploiting or killing them. You absolutely can continue to grow plants on the same land repeatedly with or without grazing animals and raising animals for slaughter is a completely unnecessary point in that process.
You don't need to have animals to practice permaculture/regenerative agriculture, but you can have them without eating them
Yes you can, you don’t need animal for the soil..
Having your own animal and grazing them is literally the least efficient and least sustainable way of living. There isn't enough space on earth for even a single western nation to do that. There are just too many people and it reduces the amount of work that can be supplied to the rest of the world improving living standards for everyone, a double whammy of awful decisions.
Animal foods have truly been so healing for me. Especially oysters, beef liver, raw milk, butter, etc. However, I still eat so much plant food and would never want to be a full on carnivore. I loved this conversation!
I wish the animals you needlessly kill could be given a thought.
@Paul So might makes right?
@Paul I assume if they were a dog, cat or a human, you wouldn’t say that. So why “in this case”?
@Paul You don’t need to eat any animals though. Why does the idea that they’re lower on the food chain, make it moral to needlessly kill them?
@Paul Oh well I think we disagree on that point because the largest scientific, dietary organisations almost unanimously conclude that we can be perfectly healthy, and obtain all nutrition we need without animals ‘products’. Do you have reason to hold a belief, which differs from most dietary experts?
My husband eats meat and I am a vegetarian 🌱 I think it’s very interesting to hear this kind of conversations and how important it is to respect each other 💗 thank you for this episode 🙏
I love Ellen and her platform but after listening to this entire podcast I found that Kori was saying so much more often that she respects Ellen’s opinion while Ellen was just trying to come back with a counter point. I don’t think this was a fair argument though I’m sure a lot of it came from her passion for animals and plant based health. Just not super fair to judge especially when a lot of the world especially those in poverty do not have access to vegan healthful lifestyles. There needs to be a more common group and it almost seems like Ellen came from a more sheltered place due to her experience and availability to do what she wants to do. Nothing but love for both of these ladies but just my thoughts!!
I have to disagree. I think Ellen just had more counterpoints ready to go. If Ellen didn’t have a counterpoint, I think the next best thing to say would be what Kori is saying. I thought both did great speaking with each other, it was very respectful and both are great people.
@can to can’t It’s obvious that both of these women are beautiful, sharp, and thriving. I think Kori’s in her 20’s, Ellen’s in her 30’s, they both take wonderful care of themselves and physically represent both diet well.
@@uhohstinky5850 I have seen both of these women in person, you’re really reaching here and it’s not working. Ellen looks amazing as does Kori.
@@SW-mp4qj yep. The trolls can't win!
Hey I bought some nikes from you!!!!! So weird I ran into a comment of yours on here lol! Hey girl!
Lovvved this conversation and how compassionate you each were. My frustration is a semantics-based one with the term plant-based being transformed into also meaning veganism. I eat plant-based, meaning the majority of my foods are from plants, and I also eat select animal foods to fill in nutritional gaps that can not be met by eating solely plants. Veganism and plant-based are two different ideas. The hypothyroidism that I was experiencing self corrected when I added saturated fats from animals. Which is not openly accepted, but my thyroid gland was chronically swollen and then returned to normal size after adding saturated fats from animals, that makes me want to explore more of the need for plants and animals for optimum health and not just one.
So interesting as I healed my hypothyroidism with a vegan diet. No animal foods. Obviously everyone is different, but it is incorrect to assume you cannot meet your full nutritional needs with plants alone. This is simply untrue.
I totally agree! I would never call myself a vegan because I feel like it is an entire lifestyle. It goes waaay beyond food. Eating a plant based diet is just that! A diet based on whole plant foods. It doesn't mean that you are cutting out every other food group. In my opinion (and I am no expert) I feel that whole fat greek yogurt is healthier than dairy free yogurt that has a bunch of additives and stabilizers. After watching this debate I will definitely do more research on what our bodies should consume to thrive.
I want to reintroduce meats after 7 years no red meat. I have hypothyroidism too. Eating fish has been making some improvements I feel.
You do you! but don't lie. There are no nutritional gaps in a correct vegan diet, there is nothing "magical" about meat, eggs or milk. You can find all the nutrients in different types of food, just in different proportions, that's all. If you're talking about b12... meat doesn't have b12 naturally, b12 is a bacteria that animals ingest when they eat grass but mostly it's injected into them. Inform yourself well if you are going to comment!
Kori is the best!! Her Freely Rooted podcast is incredible!
I love this. I ate a plant based diet for 2 years and it didn't work for me. I include animals products and have sooo much gratitude for the animals that God has given us for nourishment and healing. I also love plants. I believe in balance. Thank you for this open conversation. 🙏
Yes, balance. Having a healthy relationship with food is the most important to me.
@@uhohstinky5850 Amen I totally agree !
@@uhohstinky5850 yep! I eat organic and pasture raised grassfed foods. But I also go out occasionally and get a burger with a friend and eat pies when I want haha 😄
I haven't even watched more than seven minutes of this, and already I feel the need to leave a comment thanking you both for putting civil and kind conversations like this online 🙏 Yes!! This is how we all evolve. We're in this together❤
Really loved this conversation.
As someone that has shifted from veganism to vegetarian to eating meat again I’ve learned that Having compassion for one’s own bodily requirements and the way it communicates with you is also important.
Food is a beautiful aspect of nature, our bodies are a sacred alchemical technology. I’ve learned the beauty of Giving thanks to the food and its source. Eat in ways that feel most nourishing for you. If one is plant based and recognizes that they are not thriving as much as they used to, being willing to extend kindness to yourself and switch things up in order to find the nourishment that your body requires is really important. And same goes the other way around, if one eats predominantly animal based, adding a little more fruit and veggies and see how you feel. Balance, compassion and the humility to listen to the body is key, 🙂
Thank you for sharing this conversation Ellen and Kori!
Before you gave up being plant-based did you try getting a blood test to see if you were deficient in anything?
You were eating a plant based diet veganism is about not harming animals.
@@cantocant2346 What if I find that, how I feel, at this point in my journey, the diet for me is eating human flesh? Should I get really good at murdering strangers so I don't get caught and live my best life?
@@rasputozen That's an interesting hypothetical, but there's simply nothing unique to human meat that would require that. No carnivorous or omnivorous animal is required to cannibalize their own species to survive, it's just not the world we live in. Would you attempt to ridicule any other animal that needs meat for its own health? Humans are not naturally herbivorous, complete exclusion of all animal foods is a long-haul modern experiment and it doesn't work out for everyone. I used to think just like you seem to be thinking, and I loved the GOTCHA hypotheticals too... until I realised I was damaging myself. I hope this way if life is truly working for your body and that it continues to.
@@thenae8572 It's not so much that I need it to survive, it's just that I get so much pleasure/comfort out of it. I love hearing the screams of my victims before I dismember them. And the high I get from the control over them in their last moments of life I find exhilarating. I love the smell as they're bowels release on the barn floor. And the flesh tastes as good as any livestock and just as nutritious. I mean I don't HAVE to do it, not anymore than you omnis/carnys have to eat animal flesh. But still, at this point in my journey, it's just what feels right for me and my body.
I Love this conversation! I've followed Ellen for a long while now and I'm not Vegan but I've learned tremendously about a different lifestyle and I've implemented healthy aspects into my own life. We need more respectful conversations like this! 🧡
Where are the 'vegan populations' that you talk about, Ellen? The studies you mention here have 20 subjects here, a few other dozens there ... these are not relevant studies because of the statistically insignificant numbers. Also how long have they been vegan for? The body stores nutrients so these vegans may very well have had nutrient stores from the time they were non-vegan since veganism is a relatively new phenomenon. Talk about a big confounding factor: vegans could still have nutrient stores from their previous non-vegan days if they are newer vegans. Thirdly blood levels of a nutrient do not always reflect deficiencies and the RDI are rather poor indicators of normal levels, they are averages established by a small group of people and then updated every now and then, declaring the previous values too high or too low. There are special tests to determine a nutrient level inside a person's body which are more reliable and accurate than simple blood tests.
I really respect both of these women and have learned a lot from both of them. I wish Kori had shared a bit more about how she arrived at her pro-metabolic lifestyle and how it has changed her life and her health. I think her lifestyle goes beyond just the fact that she eats animal foods, but I feel like most of the conversation she was left to defend the fact that she eats meat. Different people thrive on drastically different diets/lifestyles, and it would have been nice for her to have spoken to why her pro-metabolic lifestyle is such a great fit for her and how it has served her.
Loveeeee this kind of conversation! I definitely lean towards Kori but appreciate both! The problem in my opinion is processed foods always! Hunting and gathering would be the ideal diet to me. I heard this in a documentary once that deer are either killed by a car, a predator or they grow so old their teeth ware down and they starve to death. So it makes a hunters kill seem the most ethical to me. I am very grateful for the animals who die to feed myself and my family! Loved this ladies!
Venison is for dinner tonight! 🦌
Great conversation! It’s so nice to hear a conversation with two opposing viewpoints, being discussed by engaging the other person as a human, above all else.
I would encourage you to listen to the Joe Rogan podcast when he interviews Joe Salatin of Polyface Farms. He talks a great deal about many of these questions you have asked, and in particular goes into detail about answering the question of how we can feed lots of people on a regenerative model of animal agriculture - it is indeed possible and sustainable. But guess who doesn’t want it? You guessed it, big agriculture. His farm’s practices are the antithesis of factory farming and he encourages people to visit his farm anytime they would like, saying, “Anyone is welcome to visit the farm anytime. No trade secrets, no locked doors, every corner is camera-accessible”. I also do agree that because of vegan activism, it has made more people turn away from supporting the horrors of factory farming and seek out their local farmers and engage them.
Also, in regards to dairy - a family milk cow during her freshening period (let’s say, a jersey cow) can produce up to 4-5 gallons of milk a day, even when her calf is feeding off of her. Again, I’m talking about a family milk cow that lives off of pasture on a Homestead, gets to be a cow, grazing all day. That cow will be well taken care of and the calf will have access to mothers milk. If we imagine a model like this - it is completely different from the conditions of a commercial dairy operation, and it can nourish many families and also the excess milk can be fed to other animals on the Homestead. The important community aspect you were talking about, this would also be more developed because this cow would nourish a community and people will know where their food comes from. I know many people criticize raw milk, yet I question why they will trust the process of getting milk from a commercial dairy without seeing the process from beginning to end like you would with a Homestead milk cow. Also, raw, fresh milk is oftentimes a lot more tolerable to people who have a dairy/lactose intolerance.
Again, thanks for this conversation!
How can you say there isn’t a seed oil industry????!!!! Seed oils are in almost all packages foods. Most restaurants cook with them. They are found in most Americans homes. There IS A MASSIVE seed oil industry that is very wealthy and powerful
These oils were aggressively marketed to us as "healthy" since the beginning of the last century, before that no one did cook with refined plant oils, originally they weren't thought for human consumption
Nina Teicholz - Vegetable Oils: The Unknown Story: ruclips.net/video/Q2UnOryQiIY/видео.html
@@tomlauris The seed oil industry have investments to protect, hence the promotion of “healthy” unsaturated fats. Unsaturated fats work better for cold-blooded animals living in very cold environments (think of a salmon). In humans, they literally turn your cells into a plastic like substance
@@vonschlief3809 It's a marketing scam that has been going on for decades, and a very successful one I must say :-/
@@tomlauris Yeah sadly I fell for the oil fake BS plus the plant based crap also... luckily 3 years ago and now I eat normal again
Love Kori! Her podcast and learning about and then implementing the pro metabolic principles as well as learning about Weston A Price principles has changed my life! I’m a totally different person a year or two later it’s crazy.
And the animal advocate thing is a totally different discussion but as homesteaders we’re super passionate about raising our animals so they have a wonderful healthy happy full life and bless them with a quick painless death if it’s an animal we harvest. Much more kind then nature. Nature is not kind, wild animals left to themselves don’t have a good easy life most of the time.
We try to make sure we know where our food comes from, I think that could solve so many issues if everyone started focusing on that. Plants grown locally and sustainably, animals raised kindly and well, etc. Vegan or pro metabolic, that’s the big thing! Stop eating processed foods!
I love these healthy conversations. So many times people are more concerned about shoving their beliefs down other peoples throats. Being a bully to get people to see things the way you do will only repel people who may have been open to the conversation. I am a huge promoter of listening to your body. Eliminating things and then introducing it back is HUGE in seeing how foods affect you. It surely opened my eyes to things I would never have believed. At the end of the day, we should all be open to information no matter what side of the fence you sit on. ❤️
This was something my nonvegan family was open to listening to, thank you Ellen! 💚 So important not to put ourselves in an echo chamber.
Very, very difficult, if not impossible, to obtain one’s required fat soluble vitamins from the plant kingdom; A, D, E, and K. Vitamin B12 must be acquired exogenously on a plant based diet, because it can only be acquired from meat, fish, eggs, organ meats, etc. Other nutritional requirements are not met from the plant kingdom alone. Saturated fat along with meat is what has sustained civilizations for millennia. No known civilization or indigenous people group has ever survived without animal food, butter, eggs, fish, etc. Before planes, trains and ships (most of recorded history) one could not acquire many of the fruits and vegetables available today; most of which are a unhealthy hybridized version. True bananas (non-hybridized from over a hundred years ago) are actually very bitter sweet, are fibrous, have hard seeds the size of raisins, and must be boiled to be eaten. If you didn’t live in the tropics, you ate no coconuts or coconut products including coconut oil, coconut flour, coconut aminos, etc.
Olives and avocados were also only found in certain limited regions of the earth.
Please learn what your macronutrients are, which ones are essential, (fat and protein) which one is not essential (carbohydrates), and why. Understand that all fruit and vegetables are from the non-essential, carbohydrate macro.
We’ve been eating high levels of grain as a result of the agricultural revolution which reached it’s peak in the 20th century. This is a relatively recent phenomenon. Maybe this is, in great measure, why we are now so very overweight, sick with contemporary auto-immune illnesses, etc., and have co-morbidities which set us up for serious, life threatening diseases. This is a matter of life and death. Your very long-term health is at stake!
Ellen’s been vegan for almost 15 years and has four 4 kids. All are thriving. She’s also not alone. By your logic, this would be impossible. The world’s largest group of nutritionists (including real dietitians) has published papers saying why they agree the vegan diet is healthy and beneficial. It’s not opinion or anecdotal, it’s scientific fact.
I do hear that. Which part of what was said above it unscientific or inaccurate, in all kindness? Another honest question. Where do vegetarians get Carnitine? Carnitine is necessary for muscle development and energy production. However, it cannot be obtained from plants.
For anyone suffering from kidney or gallbladder stones, eczema, psoriasis, rosacea, and other auto-immune illnesses, plz re-consider the vegan lifestyle. You don’t have to suffer. This video explains all about oxalate toxins found in plant foods:
ruclips.net/video/ywSM954OYs4/видео.html
@@KetoGalAnn thank you for the honest question! Healthy vegans or plant based eaters do not need carnitine from animal products. The liver and kidney make carnitine from lysine and methionine, two amino acids that vegans can derive from plant protein intake. Other nutrients are required, including iron, and vitamins C, B-3 and B-6 for conversion. If you have normal liver and kidney functions and balanced nutrition, you most likely will not develop carnitine deficiency on a vegan diet.
What I felt was unscientific was your first sentence. Our bodies are amazing and when healthy, nourished, and well functioning, they can absorb and convert everything needed from plants. Most people have not been vegan their whole lives and have eaten a conventional western diets for many many years before going vegan which is more likely a cause of later unhealth (along with lifestyle factors - stress, back to back kids, lack of exercise, etc) I believe than a vegan diet that someone has only tried for maybe 30 days or a few years of their whole life.
When you eat meat and other animal products, including dairy, you have no carnitine deficiency at all. And you do not need any pre-requisite vitamins or minerals in order to produce it in the liver. Carnitine is completely available, in the appropriate amounts, and completely bio available without any additional other nutritional elements required.
PUFA is at the heart of almost every degenerative disease! If someone is trying to troubleshoot their health, lowering PUFA needs to be the first goal
Loved listening to this and hearing both sides. I used to be vegan and am now following a pro metabolic diet. Listening to kori talk showed how much knowledge she has and it helped me learn a lot! I agree it is so important to have discussions with others who don’t particularly agree with you. We all have room to grow and learn.
I absolutely love this conversation and I love seeing this genuine friendship.
Wonder what the time difference is between them in this discussion? 🤔 Wanted to hear more of animal based perspective and the nutritional science behind it.
I’d recommend Peak Human podcast for that if you’re interested
Love you so much Ellen! So thankful for you and all you do! I’m vegan and my husband is a hunter. This may sound strange. But talking with real life hunters (not even having to interview them) may be something to think about. A lot of the thought processes you have with hunting etc, might be very enlightening to you if you hear from them directly, rather then what you’ve heard or researched ☺️. A lot of the things you are referring to can easily be answered by an actual hunter ☺️ So much so, that your points you were using as examples would not be strong
Points.
As a vegan and also close with the hunting community, the questions you are asking were things I asked when I had not much contact with the actual community in my real life and was not educated in it yet.💛
Just my two cents. But sooo much love!!
If we normalized where our food comes from then processing an animal should not be gross or distributing or “stomaching”. We are privileged enough to have grocery stores and be able to just grab our meat so the whole connection to food has been lost. Our ancestors lived the proper sustainable way while being connected to our food and earth. You could not sustain on a vegan diet with out the grocery store
It’s actually illegal to show much of what goes on in slaughterhouses for some reason but you’re right, if we could normalize it, more people wouldn’t mind it. Why shouldn’t we rely on grocery stores? Should we stop using cars, cell phones, and other technology enhance our lives too?
@@SW-mp4qj I don't think they were suggesting that we shouldn't rely on grocery stores or that grocery stores are inherently bad. The point seems to be that grocery stores have helped to create a disconnect from our food that otherwise wouldn't exist. Whether that's good or bad is neither here nor there, it's just an observation.
People regularly bring up the point that if we were meant to eat meat, slaughter wouldn't disturb us so much: the logical response is that it didn't used to disturb us so much, until the disconnected way we access our food became the norm 🙂
@@thenae8572 Why aren’t there slaughter house tours though? Why can’t we see what goes on? I mean we buy blueberries at the store and are disconnected from how those are processed but it’s simple enough to find a blue berry farm to visit. I grew up up with dead deer hanging in my garage and processing them with my dad, it doesn’t bother me all. I also work on cadavers. Also doesn’t bother me because I’m used to it. I still can’t eat meat though, to me it’s all just dead flesh and nothing about normalizing dead bodies of any kind has increased my appetite for meat.
@@SW-mp4qj I'm not an expert but I'm sure there are many reasons people aren't allowed to parade into slaughterhouses to explore. Contamination concerns (they're dealing with food that can easily be spoiled), wasted $$$/time spent babysitting visitors (especially to avoid lawsuits if someone hurts themselves on the premises or around specialised equipment), and of course the fact that these days many people are disconnected from where their meat comes from and the negative emotional response isn't something a business would voluntarily invite. Overall it would be quite a headache for slaughterhouse owners, at the end of the day it's a business. There are ways for the very determined to visit certain slaughterhouses with permission from the owners, but it's just not common practice and I can understand why.
It's fair enough if you personally decide that meat isn't for you, I'd never consider coercing someone into something they're not comfortable with. But conversely, for many people meat is a necessary part of ensuring their body can sustain health. As long as people who rely on animal foods aren't being pressured towards plant-exclusive diets, I have no gripes.
I'd raise the point that your experience is just that, you aren't okay with the idea of eating meat for your own reasons and that's cool. It's not the reality for many people who reconnect with where their meat comes from without feeling disturbed by the concept, and that's cool too.
@@thenae8572 To your point about slaughterhouses, they can’t even legally be shown in videos so it’s not an issue of health or safety. The only videos you see are done undercover. A happy cow farm or family homestead will only show you the happy life of the animal not the slaughter process in their instagrams or marketing. That is suspect to me.
I will always share a vegan or plant based diet because I have personally seen it help so many people. Take it or leave it if it’s shared with you. No one can legally “coerce” anyone to be vegan. That would rehire threats and force. I would never withhold the opportunity for someone to learn about veganism and decide for themselves and I am happy to try to civilly persuade someone. I would have never found veganism if it hadn’t been shared with me and my thinking challenged. I didn’t want to change how I ate and thought it would be unhealthy. I lived with a vegan in college and she never talked to me about her diet, I thought she was crazy for how she ate and she probably didn’t want to tell me so we could get along as roommates. Now I wish she had told me about it so I could have started earlier.
The problem with sharing veganism is that so many take offense when it’s discussed because they get defensive about the morality of their food choices - this is especially true with farmers, hunters, and people who think they are buying “ethical meat”. I get why they feel the most defensive. You don’t see that type of reaction in people when people share keto diets, paleo, or anything else.
Kori is so knowledgeable! Love love this convo!!
After watching and actively listening to the entire video, I am in tears. This was so beautifully executed. There was love, respect and information provided. You both kept it open minded, while also defending your own points of view. As a previous vegan of 6 years, to now transitioning into a pro metabolic lifestyle this hit home on all aspects.
I’m vegan for 11 years and lately coming up against the “woke culture” (including veganism) which I disagree with mostly and aligning with animal eaters more even though I believe vegan is the best. It’s strange.
It is strange. I feel like we are a rare breed but the more I look for this info, the more I find! There are more like us out there lol
Be proud that you don’t fit neatly in a box! That shows you think for yourself in an age of group think and tribalism. Also speak out against woke culture! It is fueling mob mentality and the majority of us are not into it!
I feel the same!
Yes! I’m vegan for health reasons, but plants are subjected to unethical farming practices just like animals, both should be farmed responsibly, but excluding meat or including it, is not wrong!
@@uhohstinky5850 thats a good point, but animals are also eating plants tgat have been tampered with
I just think there is a reason most vegan women cannot sustain it post pregnancy. I love Ellen, I was vegan for 7 years, I still follow her because I love her content and align with so much of her and her lifestyle, and I just like her as a person and mother, AND she is probably the only woman I know of (and her sister Hannah) who has thrived being vegan after having children. And I know A LOT of mothers who were once vegan. After I had a baby I could not keep my weight on, I dropped to 95 lbs despite the fact I was breastfeeding and so hungry and eating all the time. My anxiety was through the roof and I resisted animal foods the first 3 years of my son's life. Nothing helped me like red meat did though... The fact that so many woman "fail" on a vegan diet postpartum has to say that SOMETHING about it is- at the very least- not an easy or intuitive diet to maintain (for most people). I have a theory (and totally admitting it is only my theory) that the reason she and her sister are able to do that is because they come from a really loving wholesome family and have experienced little trauma or high stress in their lives and have always been in healthy relationships (and I am not throwing shade like "oh must be nice." I think this is so wonderful and beautiful for them). MOST people don't come from such backgrounds and high stress in infancy and childhood and beyond literally demineralizes and depletes our vitamin and mineral stores and reserves. If we are already in a state of even low level stress/anxiety and cortisol production (which again, most people are just because of modern parenting, living, and education practices) then we cannot afford to be plant based. We need to LOAD up and almost "over do it" just to replenish what has been lost. If your mineral reserves were abundant and maintained throughout life, veganism will probably be easier for you to maintain. This is also totally epigenetic. Like we could have COME INTO the world already depleted and deficient because of our mothers. I will even say that in a perfect world free of stress and trauma, we could all eat more plant based. But to me it almost feels like a modern necessity for childbearing women to load the F up on nutrient dense foods. Again, just my theory. I loved this podcast, I love Ellen and Kori and will continue to follow and appreciate you both
This is a really good perspective to chew on, that there is SO much more than just the diet to consider on a person’s physical wellbeing. thank you for taking the time to share this!
It really sounds like you were completely overwhelmed after having your baby and it sounds like you weren't getting enough calories. I know several vegan women who have absolutely thrived during their pregnancy and after having their babies, and they aren't "privileged". I really think that people will look for any excuse to go back to eating meat.
@@sschreck08 Yep, that's all it is. Excuse after excuse with these people. It's pathetic.
@notme5744 I want to eat what’s best for me. “Excuse” has nothing to do with it. Grass-fed beef liver, raw milk and homemade chicken bone broth helped me heal during pregnancy this past year after I had become really ill and lost 15 pounds in my 7th month of pregnancy. I had mostly eaten plant based before that - lentils, kale, steel cut oats and fruit. It just wasn’t enough for me to replenish. We are supposed to treat animals right and care for them, but there is nothing wrong with eating them. That is a sign of this fallen world. I’m sure we’ll all be vegans when Jesus comes back and establishes His perfect kingdom without pain or sorrow. Until then, I’ll continue eating my grass fed meat.
@@estherruth4692 You can blabber on about any nonsense you like, but it doesn't change that you're just making excuses for your selfish behaviour. "Sorry I didn't do the right thing when you weren't looking Jesus, but now that you're here watching me I guess I have to. I promise I'm a good person, Jesus..." It's a fallen world because of attitudes like yours. You say that we're supposed to treat animals right and care for them... what part of putting them in gas chambers and sawing their heads off constitutes caring for them? If that's what you call care, then your parents should be terrified of you when you have to "care" for them. "Don't worry mom, I'm sawing your head off for pleasure because I care..." You can use pathetic meat industry buzzwords like "grass fed" (which means nothing, by the way) all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that you're abusing animals for pleasure. And you can convince yourself all you want that those disgusting foods you listed are good for you, but the science isn't on your side. They're bad for you and even worse for the animals. Grow up.
you can tell you have so much respect and connection by how close you are sitting, what a blessing to have a friend like this!
I love this conversation. I have friends who have very similar views to Kori, but I personally feel so much better eating a WFPB diet. Animal products just make me personally feel not my best. My friends and I are able to respect each other’s differences as well. I think it’s more common than we are lead to believe. ♥️
Really appreciate this ✨ I have been vegetarian for 6 years and vegan for 1 year - my partner however eats dairy and meat. We are both very respectful of each other’s decisions and support each other in exploring our health, with him now eating more organic and less dairy products at his own decision/and myself less vegan junk food. We both have each other’s health at our best interests xxx
Huge respect to Ellen, I love her but I feel like she's interrupting a lot and not letting her guest express her point. 🤔 Also, I feel like this podcast turned into her convincing people to become vegan. I didn't like when Ellen said it's not "relatable" when Kori brought up an example about hunting for crabs. I feel like Ellen could have responded differently and just said "okay, I see your point on that". I thought it will be more about her guest explaining why not eating vegan IS healthy as well, but it felt like Ellen's way is the only right way to eat. I'm a little disappointed in this podcast.
@@uhohstinky5850 exactly.
I agree. Ellen didn’t let Kori express her knowledge on eating animal based enough and kept interrupting. I too felt it was a push for veganism. It was almost as though Kori was interviewing Ellen. Sorry Ellen I love what you do but it wasn’t an equal discussion. Veganism is not our ancestral diet and it doesn’t work for a lot of people. Believe me I wish I could be vegan. I was vegan for a few years and yes I was WFPD so no junk food, but it wrecked my gut. Eating grass fed grass finished animals and eliminating most plants (not fruit) healed my gut. How about interviewing someone like Dr Paul Saladino or even Mark Sisson or Dr Cate Shanahan. Love your tribe Ellen. 🥰🤙
It's so cool that Ellen is facilitating conversations like this on the internet. It feels like it's so hard to have conversations between people with differing viewpoints in society these days without it turning mean and unproductive. This type of content is so deeply important!
Personally, I believe that there is a different optimal diet for every person and that we should each try different diets to see what helps us feel our best and be at our healthiest. More fruits and veggies is a good thing for everyone but I think some people feel their best while eating meat and some people feel their best while not eating meat.
I was a vegan for 3 years. I felt great the first year but in years 2 and 3 I became really anemic, tired, and weak despite eating leafy greens and taking iron supplements. I had almost no energy most days. Once I started eating meat again my energy came back. I think for my body I need the iron and protein that I can only get from animals.
Thank you Ellen for producing this content. It's really important work that you're doing!
Wow this is beautiful. I'm so proud of you women. Setting an incredible example for this world for love, connection, learning and growing together. Thank you beautiful ladies of abundance and positivity 💖
I get an adrenaline response when someone disagrees with me (online) and I’m married to someone like you guys 😂 I am determined to be able to have the hard discussions and working at it constantly, I use any triggers as an opportunity to do just that and slowly but surely I am winning! 😂👍🏻🤗
I hope you can do another podcast that talks more about how you both metabolically eat in accordance to your beliefs. For instance, how does Ellen eat metabolically and how does Kori eat metabolically. Even to see one days entire menu where you both talk about the science behind why you eat what you eat when you eat it.
I love love love this conversation! I definitely would love to see more thoughtful, respectful, and constructive conversations like this in the world. Thank you both!
I loved this!! I’m a plant-based vegetarian so fall somewhere between you too but this was awesome. Even just the act of having two people disagreeing civilly was so nice to see. You’re so used to seeing people get nasty or flat out refuse to engage with those who disagree with eachother. So thank you for broaching that.
I disagree with parts of what both people said but you know what? Who cares! How cool that we can all form our own opinions and thoughts on topics and live in harmony together.
Only feedback would be that it would’ve been great to hear from the guest more.
This ep really made me think.
Not vegan but I was vegetarian for about 5 years. Then, I caught covid and had terrible long-lasting effects. Malabsorption of nutrients being one of them. It got to a point where my body legitimately craved chicken so I listened, ate some chicken, and felt such satiation. I realized that my body needed this to heal. I incorporate modest amounts of animal product into my diet and am healthier than ever. Veganism/vegetarianism is just not viable for every body type. The ethics are great because no one wants to kill animals, but the world we live in has fostered this type of prey/predator environment and our bodies have evolved to require small amounts of animal product for full metabolic function. You don't need to eat meat and can easily thrive plant-based, but not everyone fits this mold.
Kori's take really resonated with me because I was recently talking about this with my friend who is deciding to go vegetarian because she doesn't like the fact that she's eating dead animals. I think many more people would be vegan/vegetarian if they had to participate in the killing of animals and many others would surprise themselves at their ability to stomach the process of killing and prepping the animal if they were exposed to it. Maybe in the wild people varied on whether they leaned more towards plants or animals. I totally oppose factory farming, AND I also oppose holding animals captive, but I do think hunting is the most ethical way to consume animal products. We don't think a Cheetah is immoral for eating a gazelle, yet some vegans find a human killing any animal immoral. The difference is that the cheetah either killed the gazelle or it got away. They didn't capture it and breed it for generations for their own consumption. Ethical hunting is similar in my mind to how other animals hunt in the wild. HOWEVER, factory farming has gone too far and many people lack the nutrients they would be getting from plants, so I definitely think more people should attempt plant-based diets. Thanks for the conversation 🤍
A cheetah doesn't know any better.
They are carnivors and have to eat meat.
Humans have morals and don't need to kill to survive
@@serenityhomemaking Well I think diets are taught and that there are aboriginals and indigenous groups around the world that would view their tribes and groups as having to eat meat. And that they interact with the animals in their local ecosystems similar to other carnivores in that ecosystem. I do agree that humans in our modernized societies no longer need to kill to survive but that doesn't speak for the humans in tribes in The Amazon or parts of Africa and India that are for lack of better words "wild humans" and still untouched by our societies and modern "moral" ideas.
@@uhohstinky5850 I know that it doesn't. I mentioned above that I don't agree with holding animals captive at all. That includes raising animals, in any conditions, for consumption. I even struggle with owning a dog lol I do recognize how the conditions like you mentioned in Quran are clearly better than factory farms though. There's clearly a difference but the fair game aspect is taken away when you're holding them captive and that's where I struggle with agreeing. I hope that makes sense.
@@uhohstinky5850 but that's just not true. They are not free to leave. How is that not holding them captive? The way you describe it does sounds pleasant but also twisted in a way. Imagine if your parents raised you to eventually eat you? I'm a meat eater by the way lol. I'm just trying to explain my logic.
@@uhohstinky5850 I'm not certain that we can know what feelings they hold on the subject, but yes I do add an emotional component to it because I think it's necessary. It actually feels more fulfilling to view it as a sacrifice rather than just it is what it is. We take their lives to sustain our own and don't return the favor to nature because a lot our bodies are decaying in boxes in the ground instead of giving back to the earth as the earth has given to us. Anyway, thanks for the insight. if I own enough land someday I might try my hand at raising chickens. Still not sure about that though lol
I'm so excited to watch this! I respect both of these women so highly, and I love both of their passion, conviction, and graciousness. What a great example of how people with differing views can conversate respectfully and in a loving way. 💛
Nice but which vegan population you talking about? There was no vegan population in history ever....
vegan population of today
@@Wooplot And it's not even the vegan population of today, those studies had 22 people, 36 people, etc. Not quite enough to use the word "population" in my opinion. It was a bit of a reach
@@Wooplot = does not exist
@@Wooplot your fake vegan population has a 85% dropout rate. you literally only have a cult
How about Adam and eve before they left the garden of Eden 😂 they were the entire population of the world
Thank you for respectful conversation on opposing views! I can't discuss those topics with my meat eating friends (I'm on a plant based diet) as it always finishes with bad feelings on both sides ... We avoid those topics but still - I have many friends with different life styles and views and we treat each other with respect.
Welp this was good. My takeaway…you can be a super healthy vegan or a super healthy meat eater. You can also be unhealthy on each diet as well. Both ways of eating work for each person as an individual and whatever beliefs that you hold. It’s all about preference and what works for you personally 👍🏼
So grateful to see these kinds of conversations! Looking forward to so many more controversial topic discussions like this. Learning so much on so many different levels. 🙏❤ Thank you both.
I would LOVE to see you have Unnatural Vegan on your Podcast! I really enjoy both of your content. I can’t say I agree with everything UV says all the time, but I think it would be great to hear you both have a discussion as both of you do have some opposing views.
Unfortunately unnatural vegan has openly mocked Ellen and her family. She has made whole videos just to tear her up. Idk if she would be fun to sit down with 😅
Yup! Unnatural Vegan made a video about Ellen called "Ellen Fisher teaches you how to endanger your kids" so no way they'd do a podcast episode 👎
Ellen is just such a beautiful human being and someone that everyone should have in their life because she is just so accepting and tries to understand others regardless of her opinion and that to me is a quality we should all have in society to grow and evolve..
I love seeing two different views discussed respectfully and calmly 🙂 please make more!
What/where are the “vegan populations”???
Exactly… there aren’t any. And the Blue Zones that lots of vegans love to reference..are not vegan either. Blue Zones eat plant foods but also eat plenty of animal foods too!
She mean a large amount of vegan people. Not geographically
@@tymaguire4175 If she meant that, she would have said that and not come off misleading. That’s why everyone is asking for clarification. Most, if not all the studies she listed are no more than 100 people tested, that isn’t a big study in my opinion. Again, there is no such thing as a “vegan population” so she shouldn’t have used that term so heavily throughout the video.
@@artcreations7847 It was in her script, I doubt she knows much about foods at all :)))
Gorillas 🦍
Big ag isn't just exclusive to animal products. Rapeseed or Canola makes up one quarter of canadian ag crops, that would fall under the "big seed oil" category you spoke of.
Many of us have learned and grown our own unique base of health/lifestyle from both of your platforms. I began watching Ellen years ago and have come to appreciate more Whole Foods in their natural state, incorporating more home grown plant foods into my diet, minimalist living and gentle parenting . With Kori, I am coming to understand more about how to heal metabolically, the effects birth control had on hormone balance and body function and ways to reduce stress and optimize energy production. There’s much that has been gained and learned from both that’s helped me understand what works best for my body. To me, there is not one right way. A healthy balance can be attained from both. Thanks for putting this out and being willing to have loving discussion.
*trigger warning* I'd to add an anecdotal perspective on the points your talking about at 1:46:00. I grew up on a hobby farm (we grew gardens and raised our own animals for food) where we were able to sustain ourselves mostly from the land we were on. I was taught from a young age that we needed to respect the animals and also eat them. I grew up helping my father butcher chickens, turkeys and pigs, I could never watch them get killed but it was my job to help after. The first time I was present for the slaughter of a cow was a completely different experience. The way it was so calm and trusting towards us, we fed it grains and it was enjoying them. One minute later it had a bullet in its head and was thrashing all over. Everything has to happen quiet quickly from that point on and it gets really messy, I'll spare the more triggering details, but this was the moment my heart sank, and I knew something was wrong. I was probably 10-12 years old. I finally went vegan at 26 and have been for 5 years. That moment always sticks out to me. It is not an easy thing to see, and I know its not easy to do it either. My dad always spoke about how he had to just do it to feed us, but it wasn't easy, he had to turn off a part of himself in the moment of their death.
I must say the comments are just as interesting as this episode! Hope to hear more of these conversations!
If the world was to switch to grass fed or pastured meat, they would also have to reduce the MASS amounts of mono crops used to create feed and create all the plant based foods. This would free up more land for more sustainable farming, which would contribute to better food and cheaper prices, but the big companies would then loose money... follow the money trail... it's not about vegan vs animal food. It's all about money and greed. Either diet IS achievable, but unfortunately won't happen in this lifetime with corrupt big companies.
Loved this conversation! I feel like the only thing missing to seal the deal one way or the other would be to compare their own blood test results. They talk about studies lacking context about stress etc. The two of them are perfect examples of healthy living on 2 different diets. Would love to see part 2 of this with those results !!
I hope by you setting a good example to your followers on how to respond to people who think differently so that people will stop being so harsh. As an ethical vegan through and through, this definitely challenged my thinking and was hard to listen to at times, but I am glad I did to continue to hear the sides of people I disagree with :)
THANK YOU Eileen and Kori for a mature and enlightening conversation on diet, ethics, and sustainability!
I subscribed to Weston A Price, Sally Fallon/Nourishing Traditions for 2 years after an inspiring and thriving younger friend recommended it. I LOVED the idea that I could add so many tasty, rich, “ethical”, foods to my mostly plant and hunted meat diet and it would be healthy! I loved the diet so much. Long story short, I experienced several health issues I believe were related to that diet looking back. I went vegan for the animals after some inspiring events, not for health, and my health issues vanished! It’s been almost 4 years and I feel amazing still! I fear that if I hadn’t made a switch to veganism, the cholesterol and other issues I acquired those 2 years of metabolic eating could have impacted me much worse as I aged even though they were minor in my 20’s. Great podcast!!
Same!!!!! Now nearly 100% vegan apart from eggs…. Nearly there 💗
Me too!!!
Good for you! That’s awesome. One thing I’ve noticed is that when a non-vegan diet isn’t working for someone and they get sick, they rarely make a big statement about it and they just move on to something else, maybe veganism. But when someone becomes “ex-vegan” they often make blogs and youtube’s about it. That’s why I wanted to share the other side :)
I love that ppl can be civil while discussing opposing point of views. I personally eat meat and don’t know much about vegan Eating. But I love Ellen Fisher and her channel as well as this podcast.
Love this! What a great conversation! I am plant-based and had all my blood work done at an extensive level from my integrative doctor and western med doctor and both results was at an optimal health levels. My husband lost 90lbs and his A1C is almost reaching pre-diabetes range. Praise the Lord! I really love this episode, Kori is a great guest Ellen! :)
I love how respectful you both are! That in itself is the example everyone should absorb! If we are eating vegan to be kind to animals but are unkind to humans for having different opinions, it seems like we are missing the point of “kindness”! We need more respectful debates like this!
this was super interesting! my main thought when it comes to promoting a vegan lifestyle, is if it’s really realistic for the majority of people. From a socioeconomic stand point, getting tons of whole plants foods is just not doable for a lot of people. Both of you come from a very privileged place, both living in an abundant area (hawaii) and having sufficient money to support that kind of lifestyle. As a college student, there is almost not way i could eat fully plant based AND be healthy without spending hundreds of dollars every week. Obviously this is a nuanced conversation and there’s so many layers to each side (vegan vs not). i just think promoting a lifestyle that is not sustainable for most people, is problematic at times. overall though this conversation was super interesting and i learned a lot! sending you both good energy :)
I wish everyone should be respected no matter what they eat.
How can there be respect when vegans impose their ideology on everyone?
@@brynley4930 I don't generalize but vegans don't let up. They attack farmers, businesses and even shoppers. The internet became a rude platform of opinion because of them.
@@brynley4930 the silent vegans agree with the militant vegans tho.
@@brynley4930 I don't have BEEF with those vegans.
This was wonderful! You gals have more things in common than not. Sounds like such similar ways of thinking just executing them a bit differently 💕
Ok, I am only a 30 mins in but I have to say I love this already and can tell I am going to be loving it all the way thru. I have a lot of relatability to both of you in how you communicate and your philosophies in approach to a balanced body and life. Also, I too am the woman who loves the difficult conversations and is endlessly curious and asks all the questions in wanting to learn more and do better while thinking for myself and embodying who I am as an individual. All the reasons you said why this can challenge some people has been my experience as well. Thank you for coming together to do this talk, really exciting. Enough with these diet “wars” already and let’s just get real and purposeful as you are both doing here.
I personally had a really powerful experience where my body was just rejecting all animal products, which I traced back to feeling this way from a young age. This eventually led me to feel the mind body spiritual connection between myself and the sentient beings on this earth. Hence why I'm vegan and will always be. It just makes sense for me personally. I feel this on many levels
Love this. I’m not vegan, but I feel like I’ve been feeling something similarly.
Your doing well - read “how not to die” and research Okinawa japans. They eat mostly plant based and live for hundreds of years.
Loved this conversation so much! It’s so great to hear an objective back and forth regarding anything these days, but especially something as delicate as the conversation around health/wellness and food. I love people that want to listen and learn, and it’s even cooler to watch in real time. ALSO- the enneagram 8 thing made me crack up! Two amazing passionate women who love to educate! ❤️
God gave man dominion over animals. I’m vegan, but recognize that humanely raised animals, farmed for food is completely ethical!
Not sure if you follow the Pope but his interpretation is different. He says it here:
“Although it is true that we Christians have at times incorrectly interpreted the Scriptures, nowadays we must forcefully reject the notion that our being created in God’s image and given dominion over the earth justifies absolute domination over other creatures.”
Source: LAUDATO SI’ OF THE HOLY FATHER FRANCIS
Killing is ethical ?
You are not vegan if you think killing animals is ethical
@@SW-mp4qj no I don’t follow a self appointed pope, I follow the real Christ, the Lord Jesus and He, through Godly men, wrote the Bible and His word is perfect and infallible! The pope can say what he likes, the word of God stands true!
@@will532 well guess what, I am!😉👍
I’ve been hoping you guys would sit down for a discussion like this once I started listening to Kori’s podcast awhile back. Thank you for the open, respectful and honest conversation!
I feel like Ellen emphasized over and over again the importance of nutrient density per calorie basically, and I wish Kori had said a little more about the clear advantage meat has over plants in that regard. No question about it. Feel like Ellen was a lot more on the offense than Kori. Totally fine as it is a (friendly) debate, but Kori was sitting on so many good points and counterarguments she just never used! Just look at this comment section full of former vegans who were forced to desist for health reasons.
Thanks for this podcast Ellen and Kori! I could really feel Kori’s vulnerability as I did not feel as though her passion and understanding of the pro-metabolic lifestyle really came through. I was also very surprised sugar was not mentioned at all esp in regards to heart disease. Ellen, I would love to see Dr. Mark Hyman on your podcast because he thinks some people can thrive on a vegan diet but also promotes a pro-metabolic lifestyle.
Great episode. Bring her back maybe about child rearing and medicine?? Please
I just attempted to share your most recent episode with Dr Robert Malone, and lo and behold, it was deleted before I could share the link with my community. I was luckily able to watch the whole interview, and truly hope you will be able to repost it on platforms that support freedom of speech. Unbelievable that RUclips does not allow freedom of speech. Thank you Ellen for your good works.
I saw it posted this morning and I came back to listen about 1 hour later and it was gone.. I was really wanting to listen
To undo a knot negotiate its complications. To tighten pull both ends without consideration.
Thank you for having this discussion Ellen and having a non-vegan on to talk about nutrition, I love how open minded both of you are and seeing the contrast in your opinions is super interesting.
I do appreciate open discussions and I really enjoyed this topic as an ethical vegan. However, because neither Ellen nor Kori are dieticians, I do believe a debate between a vegan dietician and an omnivorous dietician would make this conversation more credible in terms of discussing nutrition.
Dieticians (mainstream ones) recommend industrial seed oils among other things... not someone I would turn to for health advice.