Shooting the Pedersoli Whitworth rifle
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- Опубликовано: 18 ноя 2024
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Finally some action with the new Pedersoli Whitworth rifle. Some testshooting to 50 m and 100 m distance. Want to support our work? By a Capandball product: kapszli.hu/en/t...
Magyar szöveg: kapszli.hu/pede...
I had a navy arms replica of this rifle. I purchased a matching mould. My gun got best results with 95 grains of 3 f goex powder. The only weak point was my shoulder after 70 rounds.
That group is incredible for iron sights with any rifle!
@ he clearly is not talking about missing
If he was shooting at the head the guys neck would hamburger.
I'm not about to let that guy shoot at me.
I enjoy watching your Cap & Ball videos, please don't stop making them.
I have often been perplexed when I see you dropping the loading rod ontop of your load a few times when loading.
But I was very pleased to hear you say that JUST a consistant firm pressure on the loading rod gives better accuracy
and that throwing the rod down reduces the accuracy and lowers the shot on the target.
I was very impressed with accuracy with a conical bullet in the HEX barrel.
THANX
Excellent review! I have one of these rifles on the way, and I wanted to know if I should cast my bullets out of pure lead, which you answered.
Loved your series on the ROA! Thank you for the grind of all those projectile and powder combinations. Looked a bit tiresome. 😊
Gorgeous rifle. Appears to be an incredibly accurate shooter too!
That's the beauty of it.
It’s actually the only muzzleloading rifle in Wikipedia’s list of longest confirmed sniper kills
You do an outstanding job with your channel. As a long time blackpowder shooter it’s nice to have such a great resource,thank you.
I can (and almost have sometimes) watch your videos all day. I'm more of a history buff than an actual firearms guy, but just watching these are an awesome companion to good historical fiction (Reading 'Chain of Thunder' right now!). Thanks for these, I'd love to get into black powder shooting some day.
Don't wait, do it now while you still can!
Honestly your voice sounds even more smoothly contoured than the rifling in that Whitworth barrel!
Nice gun. What I did to my two banded Enfield was to fill in that wide rear notch with solder. Then I took a jeweler's needle file with a knife edge and cut a narrower slit in the solder filled rear sight. I also used shocking pink nail polish or bright yellow or red poster paint to mark the REAR of the front sight to make it stand out better against the target.
I really enjoy when you shoot steel. You get to see the “power” of the round. There is something very satisfying to see a large heavy bullet impact the target. It helps also to put into prospective how much energy was being dispersed upon impact. When shooting a modern cartridge, especially the very light weight bullets, the difference is just fun to watch!
Finally, a Whitwortg repro.!!! This rifle is absolutely legendary. To finally get to see the accuracy of this thing is exciting!! I've always wanted one! Guess what!! Lol
Nice shooting champ. Excellent advice about loading pressure.
Keep on brother...
That is some excellent shooting. Seems to be a very accurate rifle.
The Whitworth rifle is still on the Wikipedia list of longest confirmed sniper kills. Amazing. Whitworth also made a device to measure one millionth of an inch.
Wow, beautiful rifle, and great shooting. A fine presentation in every form. Thank you.
Thank you for the fine report, Balász.
We have an original Whitworth rifle as a trophy in my rifle association and I think it is still in shootable condition. What I would like to see is Pedersoli produce a replica of the breech loading flintlock rifle designed by the British army officer, Fergusson. As far as I know, no replica has ever been produced, by any company.
I just ordered one of these rifles from Dixie Gunworks. I can't wait to get it.
How is it
Good choice Dixie Gun Works !
great video, can't wait for the 1777 french flintlock pistol
The originals are so rare the local Whitworth Trust hasn't even got one.
He is very correct about seating force. I put a bathroom scale under the butt of my rifle, and ram with one consistent stroke, and then hold for a few seconds at a consistent weight reading on the scale. Also clean the bore between EVERY shot, black the sights, use a powder funnel that goes down all the way to the breech.
Good video hope you'll do some more video work with this rifle.Well done.
In their day with a four power scope they were 0.85MOA rifles. That was using hexagonal hard lead bullets.
No they weren't. See here ruclips.net/video/cUd2RQGfL7E/видео.html
@@djordjelacmanovic44 British military wasn't using a telescopic sight... and 3MOA at 500yd is exceptional for a notch-sighted rifle like this. Being able to actually see your aiming point precisely greatly improves your ability to shoot the rifle to it's potential (not to mention, eliminating almost all of the inconsistencies in lining the sights up, which you have with normal sights).
Finally saw Ian’s (Forgotten Weapons) programme about this Rifle.....yeah, a four inch group at 500 yards! 😱 I’ll have to go back and re watch Ian’s programme, as I can’t remember him stating whether that shoot was done using an optical sight, or not....
I should add that Ian had to correct his initial reportage, as he was incorrect in his figure work....my bad but this rifle is still incredibly accurate....
makes me want to go out and get one!
thanks! that is some good groupings!
Amazing shooting, sir.
Very nice, I shouldn't watch this, now I want one!
Took the words right outa my mouth.
How much are they & were can I find one.
Thank you for the video! Can you please make one for the Pedersoli Volunteer rifle? Keep up the great work!
Very nice rifle... and very accurate.Thank you for your advice.
Damn. Gorgeous rifle. The original was state of the art of its day.
Excellent video and what appears to be a sweet rifle for fun times! Thanks for bringing it to us...nice job as always!
Super!
Greetings from Italy.
Andrea
you can clearly make out the bolt as it hits! sold!
Have been looking forward to this video ever since you first announced the Pedersoli Whitworth last year! Glad to see it did not disappoint on the range. Any word on when / if this will be available in the US? Has anybody heard whether this is the same as the "Navy Arms Parker-Hale Whitworth" that was made available earlier this year? Thanks
HI, it is already available. The rifle is completely new. Pedersoli tool up for the production.
The plum barrel is beautiful
You can buy pre-made Whitworth hex bullets from Dixie gun works and the molds are for sale there too
In the early 1970s, the Birmingham gun-maker Parker-Hale began selling reproduction Enfield rifles, hard to find now, used mostly !
that is no joke level of accurate, especially for the age of its design. Would love one as a deer rifle
Excellent grouping! Nice review.
I noticed that the back of your projectiles are flat, if they would be concave they should expand to fill the hexagonal rifling. The Jericho 941, Glock, and other modern firearms use hexagonal rifling.
I was hoping you'd show the muzzle, I can't figure out how you'd shoot a cylinder bullet out of an original witworth type barrel. Good shooting though!
Easy. The force of the gas pressure upsets the lead bullet to fill the
hexagonal cavity. A cylindrical bullet was a common choice in the
American Civil War as well in case no hexagonal bullets were available.
Thank you sir.
So, apart from good firearms, you seem to be a very good marksman. Is there a chance you could make a few videos about good marksmanship, i.e. advice how to fire these old flint and percussion guns etc.
Again not exactly just what to do when loading etc, but the actual aiming and firing.
Best,
Lutz
@@capandball Did you use your usual loading method of filling in the powder, putting a wad over the powder, cleaning the bore with a wet patch and seating the bullet by gravity of the ramrod and uniform hand pressure? Did you use round or hexagonal wads? Any paper or cardboard wads or just luricated felt?
Very good shooting
The funny thing about being a patreon supporter and buying a pedersoli whitworth, I'm wondering if I subsidized marketing to myself lol. Wouldn't have known this repro existed without this video years ago and the years of saving to buy one. I guess tell the old pedersoli man you worth his time, Balasz.
Great shooting!
Did I catch your statement right? Using a round minie in a hexagonal bore rifle?
The navy arms parker-hale Whitworth were manufactured in England using original plans & Guage s. They very pricey when average 1864 spring fld was selling in kit at $120.00 built at $160.00 a Parker-hales sold for $450.00 or more!
Banging on the bullets is also probably causing some tip deformation, which would be consistent with the larger group.
Yeah he should have lightly seated the bullet per a Whitworth sharp shooter diary suggests
I love that you keep the cap and ball tradition alive what are the gun laws like where your from
Great looking rifle
Awesome video! Now I need one...
Wouldn't it be interesting to take a cylindrical bullet of slightly larger diameter than the .451 caliber and hammer-and-rod drive it through a 10" section of Whitworth-style polygonal-rifled barrel to form it? Seems to me that the modern hammer-forging technique used for some quality production rifles could churn out yards of such barrels to be cut into the right lengths for such bullet forming. Maybe Pedersoli itself could be persuaded to make such short lengths available as accessories. since it is already in the barrel-making business.
What some custom ML shops do is order the barrel long (3"-4"), and cut off a few inches to make a sizing swage, so it perfectly first the bore of your rifle (usually it's serialized to ensure it stays with your rifle). Probably could get away with a .458 or .460 bullet to swage it. That would be a better solution than the molds I've seen for hexagonal bullets, as the shape is harder to cast consistently. Swaging would also help make the bullets more uniform, by eliminating gas pockets you always get with cast bullets (sort for weight, and swage them, you'd have as close to perfect bullets as possible).
Good ideas gents. I believe cap and ball suggested similar swaging in his prior whitworth video.
Szia Balázs! Gyönyörű a fegyver, szép az idő, szuper a film. Gratulálok!
Üdv! Szelepcsényi Barnabás
Szia Barna! Köszönöm!
Great video! That is a very nice rifle! You have the most interesting assortment of black powder firearms on your channel. Thumbs up as usual.
So nice to look at.
Balazc many thanks. Good observation about ensuring the bullets are gently and consistenly pushed down the barrel. Could you do a quick video (or add it to the next video on the Whitworth) on loading the rifle e.g. which bullet (mould), type of wad, amount and type of powder, wad type, lube, etc. Also have you used Vesuvit LC (Czech I believe) and if so what do you think of it? Many thanks indeed. Kieran.
I used Vesuvit for many years, as that was the only available powder in HUngary. They are ok for patched roundball, and somehow percussion revolvers usually like it. But not good for concials and top accuracy.
in the civil war they didnt use bullets with a circular cross-section, they used used bullets with a hexagonal cross-section and the flats on the outside had the same rate of twist as the barrel and they were also paper patched. this insured maximum contact with the rifling and was the whole point of using the hexagonal rifling in the first place. if you found a mold for those it would provide and even more accurate assessment of the rifle's capabilities.
Dear Ryan, please check the book of John Anderson Morrow: The Confedetarte Whitworth Sharpshooters. You will find many bullets with circular cross section, and also many bullet molds for Whitworth rifles with the same circular form.
***** The original design by joseph witworth called for a hexagonal paper patched bullet. He also designed an artillery rifle the same way. the round substitute bullet was designed by a general named george something (cant remember the last name) as an alternative that was easier to manufacture.
***** this is a link to the transcript of whitworth's original article he wrote in guns and steel in the 1850's
www.researchpress.co.uk/index.php/whitworth/214-gunsandsteel?showall=1&limitstart=
Thanks Ryan, I know that. PLease check my other video about shooting the Whitworth with hex bullets.
What about the video for the French 1777 Horse Pistol? This video is very good as well, thank you!
Beautiful rifle but your sweater is nicer!
Which bullets can be used for this rifle
I do have a Mortimer Whitworth Standard .45 caliber and with .451 530 grain and 70 grain wano I get 6" groups at 300m.
Nice rifle, nice video...
Another great vid. Thanks
“My man I’m ashamed of you dodging this way and that. They couldn’t hit an elephant at that range.”
Great video
🆒
such a cool rifle. how long is it accurate up to? the one on their website is also a octagonal barrel.
Look at Wikipedia, longest confirmed sniper kills. Scroll down and there it is, which is amazing in 2021.
Hi,
Enjoy your videos. How does the Pedersoli hex mold cast? What do they really size out as..looking to shoot it naked if it sizes at .449 or ..450. Heard they size out larger than advertised as .442, even with pure lead.
Good shootin Tex are you using hard cast bullets
Interesting to say the least. Just wondering about price and availability.
I believe some withworth rifle was used in the us civil.war and some or most was fitted with scopes ?
did you ever get a polygonal mold? Dixie gun works used to sell one here in the states.
You have a typo in your description :) nice video as always and keep up the good work
you can buy a bullet mold for whitworth rifles from henry krank in the uk
Do you know if Pedersoli are going to make a hex bullet mould for this rifle?
How did you get the round bullet to fit the hexagonal bore? Did it form itself as you loaded or what?
He had mentioned in another comment chain that the bullet expands to the rifling via the gas pressure behind it. Apparently they did the same thing in the Civil War since hexagonal projectiles weren't very common.
wonderful!
Would you happen to know if Pedersoli is planning on releasing a 2-Band Snubnose Whitworth Rifle as well, like the ones that were shipped to the Confederacy?
Will be possible to push this rifle further away? 200,300,400,500,600mts ?
Which is better pedersoli's Whitworth Rifle or Volunteer rifle,& does Volunteer rifle has cold hammered barrel?
Hi! Very good shooting! I have just looked at a Pedersoli Whitworth rifle at a local gun shop. The barrel seemed to be of excellent quality, indeed. Unfortunately, the three barrel bands were so poorly fitted into the wood, that it was very unattractive to look at. There are large gaps, where the rings should normally fit against the wood. I can't really see it in your video -- how well is the wood to metal-finish on your rifle? Do you know, if the quality differs a lot from one Pedersoli to another Pedersoli?
That amazes me. Of all the Italian makes, Pedersolli has the best reputation for quality
@@adrianlarkins7259 I finally bougt one, last year. Luckily, the dealer (Frnkonia) had a few of them in stock. Thus I was given the oportunity to look at four of them and select the best one. Not even two of the four were alike in fit and finish: Bedding of the barrel and the lock into the stock varied greatly and left lots of room for improvement. One two of the four guns, the barrel bands were loose and could not be tied down, sufficiently. Quality of the wood varied greatly.
I finally chose the one which needed the least amount of work and had the best wood. Later, I bedded the barrel and lock. It's a fine shooter now, and pretty to look at, too! However, for 1500 Euros (1700 Dollars), I expect more quality right out of the box!
Yes, I agree: Pedersoli IS the best Italian maker of old firearms' repros -- which sadly means, that the others are totally out of the question.
I have two other Pedersolis, a 54 Hawken and a 45-70 Sharps, with which I was - and still am - very happy just the way they came. These are about ten years older than the Whitworth, though...
My sales rep at Frankonia looked at the fit and finish of the Pedersoli Whitworth and... called it a "Woolworth rifle"... 🤣
What is that over your right eye? And do you use what's on your left eye so that you can keep both eyes open?
nice gun
I was under the impression that it could shoot any jacketed rounds? But it can fire conicals though?
metal Jackets resist the compressive forces that cause the bullet to seal the bore, and are, generally-speaking, not ideal for muzzle loading rifles (although some modern companies try their hardest to make them work, at exorbitant cost lol). Cylindro-conical refers to the general shape of the projectile (it has a cone shaped nose, and a cylindrical body), true conicals are more like the "picket" bullets, which are just a cone with a slightly radiused bottom.
The experimental use of cylindro-conical bullets in rifles goes back to the 1790's with some of Henry Nock's guns, as far as I can find. True Conical bullets start really becoming popular in the 1810's and 20's, but the Cylindro-conical bullet won out largely by the 1850's as the dominant "improved ball", due to allowing for easier loading and more efficient design.
Ive got a question. Did they ever make the barrel right hand twist like the originals? Or is it still left hand twist?
Triple 7 does not like compression so I'm not surprised. Swiss powder is One of the best. Did you know that people riding a horse 🐴 would hit the but of the gun agents the saddle to keep the bullet from falling off the powder
... nice rifle ... maybe I want to give it a trial :-)
Just how hard is it to get hexagonal bullets and sizers?
I wonder if you could put a scope on that Whitworth rifle
This is very good accuracy for a round bullet in a hexagonal bore! I thought Pedersoli sold a Whitworth Hexagonal bullet mould for use with this rifle, how do the round bullets set up so much in the hexagonal bore yet still give this accuracy ? Are you using a wad ?
NO wad in the bore. Pedersoli is working on the hex mold, but the bore seems to be working well with the clindrical base also.
capandball : Will the Pedersoli mould have cannulars in it ? This will be very difficult to achieve in a hexagonal bullet.
If you size the bullets to the land-to-land diameter of the bore, how can they grip the rifling? (this is at about 2:12)
The force of the gas pressure upsets the bullet into the rifling.
Really? This is hard to believe for such a slug type bullet. Or does the bullet have a hollow base like a Minie?
I used to shoot a Euroarms Whitworth with paper patched cylindrical bullets. They bump right up and fill the hex grooves so long as the lead is softish.
@@ThePerfectRed with a bullet like this, these rifles usually operate at 28,000 (70 gr charge) to 40,000 PSI (120gr charge), that pressure hits almost instantly; so needless to say, it's more than enough to deform lead lol as long as the grooves aren't too deep (under .008 is recommended)
@@wildrangeringreen Thanks for the infos!
Will they be available in the United States
I get the hat. I get the glasses. I don't get wearing both at the same time. It's like wearing sandals with socks. Other than a fashion statement...love your videos.
I agree, but I need the glasses for good sight picture. :)
Basically, A Musket That Reloads Longer
@John lol I just realized, imagine using this in a 16th century war, thanks for the info tho!
I'm in the process of getting a Whitworth. What's your opinion on casting solid copper hexagonal projectiles for this rifle?
The 1 in 20” twist was designed for the mass of the bullet, I believe Cu would be too light and not stable with this twist. Thanks,
Are there many options for a quality rear aperture sight?
Lee shaver, Kelly, and MVA come to mind
Owning a Pedersoli Brown Bess musket, Im not used to seeing 100 metre accuracy like that! I can see why you are an Olympic shooter! Do you think the .451 bullet will have enough power to take a deer?
considering it's over an ounce (I think he said it weighed 460gr, there are 437.5gr in an ounce), and it's only .45 inches across... yah, it'll go clean through a deer even at 500 yards (provided you use a 70-120gr charge of powder to push it). These bullets are good for bision/buffalo, and even hippo and elephant (from reasonable distances). Long bullets are incredibly deadly, even at long range. I use a .36 bullet rifle for deer, and even at 200 yards (215, actually), the 280gr bullet I use goes through (granted, I'm using 85gr 4F in that rifle, velocity is 1752fps average). There's a reason why all modern rifle ammo uses cylindro-conical bullets vs a ball.
I consider 500 ft/lb at the animal to be sufficient for typical deer, and a 500gr .45 bullet, with 100gr charge, should average around 1400fps, and wouldn't drop below the 500 ft/lb threshold until 1,575 yards lol. I consider 800ft/lb to be sufficient for Moose and Bison, and it wouldn't drop below that until 800 yards lol.
super gun
I cannot find it, have you ever shot a Pennsylvania long rifle? Thanks!
yes I did, but did not make a video about it.
***** Cool, thanks for replying.
After The 50m Target, U Should've Adjusted Ur POA To The Top Of The Black & Then U Would've Been Hitting Dead Center...
I really wish Pedersoli, or someone who makes reproduction arms of comparable quality, would reproduce the percussion (1841 model i think?) Hall carbine. . Or even an 1847 Springfield musketoon. I guess there just isn’t that much demand for carbines among historical black powder shooters? 🤷♂️🤔
How do you manage the same compressingforce? Only by feel or do you have some kind of tourgeklicker in your ramrod?
you can buy special ram rod that help with that or yeah feel will work :)
@@Gungeek late to the party, generally you just rest the bullet on top of the powder, because there is no way (short of using something like a "precision packer", and even it's far from perfect) to consistently compress it by hand. Going to weighed charges and switching to this loading method brought my 6 MOA flintlock down to a 1.75 MOA rifle (and that's with really bad notch sights).
@@wildrangeringreen better late than never i guess lol
What are you wearing on your face when you are shooting at 3 minutes into the video?
Shooting glasses with adjustable aperture. Makes your vision sharper. You'll see both the front and the rear sight sharp.
Oh I see. I haven't seen someone wearing that before. Thank you for answering my question.
How much do one of things cost in America