Etcg1 people that go out of there way to explain things in detail like you with your busy career and family life are hard to find you're a blessing Eric I appreciate your work hard work that is.
One of the best and worst things about having a little automotive knowledge is the dread when you notice something isn't "right". Most people see a little smoke or feel a little fishbite or notice a loss on power and blow it off or don't worry about it. Unfortunately I know those little things probably keep you up at night, especially with a car like the Fairmont that you've put so much of your time, money, and love into. Glad you got it figured out and can move forward.
SPLEclipse Reminds me of the time I went to do an oil change on my mom’s car, reversing it into the shop the trans just didn’t feel right, drop the pan & it’s full of metal, my mom had no clue!
Oh gosh yes those things keep me up at night. And even more so when I can't do anything with the car for a few days! Something feels off, catch a bit of an odd smell, lost a bit of coolant or what ever. Yeah it freaks me out a bit.
So glad I've never experienced this issue. Would so suck to have an engine self-destruct! All that time, effort and money . . . gone. You truly got lucky. My sister and I ran through a creek and didn't even make it across when we heard a sharp SNAP! Cracked block. It was a really bad night, because it was storming (gale force winds and rain) and we ended up walking for miles before finding a phone and calling our folks.
Awesome video Eric this was extremely informative. I hydrolocked my girlfriends 07' caravan when a river overflowed onto the road and almost took the whole van with it. Got out and waited for the water to come down then i pulled the plugs, cranked it and shot all the water up then it drove fine for 3 months until just like you said complete failure of a connecting rod that was bent during the hydrolock situation! We look back on it as a blessing because we got her a 02' civic lx 5spd that is her baby!
Crazy, I had water get into my "cold air intake" on my MK3 VW Golf ABA engine to the point that it shut down. 50,000 miles later still running like a champ!!
The hydrostatic lock phenomenon is an important one and I'm happy that you vlogged about it. You did a great job of describing the phenomenon and showing the damage. I'm sorry to read that this caused your engine trouble, but now you have an excuse to put more speed parts on it! Yeay! That all said, "driving through a puddle" is almost certainly not going to get enough fluid into an engine to lock it up. Excluding the engine fluids, getting another fluid into an engine to cause this sort of thing usually requires a stock vehicle engine either being pretty close to completely underwater to get it past the air filter (manufacturers and engineers design to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen in 'normal' driving). I've personally driven stock vehicles with water above the axles (both on and off road) with & without inner fender flaps, as well as through completely torrential rains and still not had water get into the engine. Yes, I wasn't trying to go fast, but my point is that a "puddle" isn't going to have enough water to create an issue when even vehicle use through dramatically flooded areas don't usually cause problems with hydrostatic lock.
I am sorry to hear that this happened to you. I'm sure it really feels like a kick in the rear. Glad you seem to be looking at it from a good prospective and using it as a way to continue to teach people.
So I replaced the seals and mounts on a 3 cylinder diesel yanmar inboard a few weeks ago...the saltwater cooling intake pump overflooded he exhaust and forced water into cylinder 1. I also may have had a backflow issue from the return line. Pretty sure it hydrolocked and now I am pretty nervous that I damaged it trying to start it up. Lesson: if you think its flooded, stop cranking immediately. I may need to remove and inspect the cylinders now...huge job, especially on a boat.
Agreed! I really like the fairmont videos, they remind me of the cars I started out with, (and some I REALLY wish I'd kept!) Also, the modifications Eric is doing are some I wish I could've done, or could do. These videos let me wrench vicariously with Eric. ☺
There's a special place in my heart for people who take really terrible or fugly cars and make them kinda cool. This Fairmont (and the Futura) is one of those cars! Ah .. the 80's.
Eric, you should talk to the Top Fuel crews, The masters of hydraulic lock! Once the spark goes out and the nitro keeps filling the cylinder,the rest is history. Its a good day if only one cyl breaks a ring land normally it leads to those spectacular "And They Walked Away!" videos where the block splits in half with the blower in the drivers lap! Welcome to the world of forced induction
When I was a kid, a mate of mine had a Toyota 4-Runner diesel. We went off-roading and he dipped the front into a water hole and the engine locked. Thankfully, the engine was idling at the time. So we sat on the fenders and took out the glow plugs, squirted the water out with the starter motor, then reinstalled them and the damn thing fired right up. After another 4 years as a daily driver, it was still running well - I would guess we dodged the bullet that time. On the other hand, I've seen a few cars over the years that tried to power through a deeper-than-expected puddle and the engine kicked a leg out of bed (read: perforated the block with a con rod.) That was quite a mess.
Driving through an unfamiliar place during a Florida rain storm, and I coast through what LOOKED like just a bit of water on the road. It turned out to be a huge pool of water. I was going ~10 mph and suddenly my car says, "I don't feel so good" and sputters a bit before I turn the engine off. Cried in the rain, pushed my car into a parking spot, got it towed, got the water out, new plugs, new MAF. Started right up. It's been 1.5 years and 15K+ miles, motor is still going strong (still burns oil but that's a Honda problem hehe). But I guess I'll just have to wait around for my conrod to snap lol, thanks, Eric.
Sorry to hear about this, but like you said, it could've been a whole hell of a lot worse. The inside of that cylinder bore looks perfectly fine -- no scorching or gouging, so I think you're good there. You didn't mention it, but I assume you checked the connecting rod on that cylinder to ensure it's still true?
This is a very smart video. I repaired a Evo X engine that had a piston that cracked just like that a few years back, but never knew what really happened to it (you know how customers omit the truth/lie). This video gives me some new perspective on what might have cracked that piston. I replaced that piston, put new rings on the rest, flex-honed all cylinders, replaced all rod bearings, and it's been social media verified to have been out there getting beat on on and street racing with modifications for 3 years now. I wanted to make a video of that job, but the footage turned out pretty bad. I only ended up posting a video of flex-honing it. Great video though, it really made me glad I'm still making sure to watch ETCG1 videos.
I was hoping you were talking about the mini, then I seen over your shoulder, the fairmont up on the lift, with dark matter Pikachu disassembled, Noooo, Last week my wife’s car broke down, on the exact same day that mine started running like a pig, “that’s a car guys life”, at least I had fun getting dirty fixing them both
Eric, very close to the same thing happened to a friend of mine back in 1999 on his Integra GSR. Water got into one cylinder and fractured one of the connecting rods but kept running with a little misfire here or there. About 9 -12 days later, rod goes right through the piston. GSR block was beyond repair, replaced it with an LS block and put the GSR head on it, even had the VTEC working proper. turned out to be a faster car that wa. But I'm very glad everything worked out for you. its a beautiful car and motor.
Just had one occur with a 1998 Tacoma 2.7 today. Engine ran rough briefly upon start up occasionally over the course of 1 or 2 weeks with minimal driving. Drove one day fine on a 15 min trip, idled for about an hour with AC on, filled with gas. Re-Started and sounded rough like all the cylinders weren't firing, it smoothed out as it normally did. Stopped at gym turned it off; worked out a couple hours, but it wouldn't start after that. Fun times; possibly getting a new engine. Mechanic said it was a small coolant leak into one of the cylinders that's causing the hydrolock issue. They managed to get it started but couldn't guarantee continued operation. Recommended a new engine from a junkyard or repossessed vehicle. Good video. Just trying to learn more about type of engine failure and possible solutions.
Might interest you that aircraft radial engines are turned over by hand to guard against hydraulic lock by oil ingress while stationary. Love your content ETCG and your easy going manner!
I live about 45min away from the Dayton Aircraft Museum. 😉 Also, I seriously considered getting into aviation mechanics before I went into automotive. I've loved planes since I was a kid. Thanks for the comment.
Good god. I loved rain puddles. you know those 6-8 inch deep puddles you get when the rain channels overflow on heavy rains. Guess I'll be avoiding them now. Thanks for sharing. problems like this occasionally coined as failures are hardly ever shared. Thank you so much. Never had a car engine shut off from the puddles though.
I'm not entirely convinced that the hydrostatic lock was the root cause of all of this. My money is on the guy dynoing the engine, pushing it at full throttle with boost even though he was well aware it was super lean. The severe detonation that occurred during that time probably weakened the piston enough to cause it to break during the hydro lock situation. I can't imagine a forged piston breaking that easily with the starter motor pushing against it. Not hating, trolling or anything like that, just my 2 cents.
Yup I agree, generally piston failed for hydrolock would crack the piston across the combustion surface. This was 90% more than likely from detonation or having to tight of a ring gap althou since the bores are still fine it was probably fine on the ring gap.
I do know what detonation looks like on a plug but whose to say the plugs haven't been changed since it was on the dyno ic you seen that video of it going super lean on the dyno when it was in boost I can guarantee you that thing was detonating.
While this vlog gives me a stomach ache from the damage, it does serve as a very strong reminder that hydrostatic lock can kill even the nicest of engines. Very sorry that Dark Matter Pikachu came to an untimely end, but glad that the lessons will continue, and that we'll see new and even more exciting things in future.
A number of years ago Mom's cutlass lost an engine to this. I was home on leave after my Step-Dad had replaced the engine asking questions about why her old engine failed and nobody knew. I finally found that the windshield wiper linkages had 'sawed' through some vacuum-line in the cowl area. That allowed a ton of rainwater (Alaska) to fill up the intake and one apparently one cylinder. Then the motor was started and promptly stopped (KIA). Glad I found it or it could have cost her a 2nd engine as well.
Had a cold air intake on my car hit a puddle in Charlotte instantly blew my motor shot the rods out the block still have the block with the rod sticking out of it in the back of a Toyota Camry Boom
M&R Tuning That would suck! I’ve got a cold air intake for my 240 because I wasn’t able to find a factory box, I plan to build a splash shield of some sort around it.
You killed a Camry? I bow to Thanos, destroyer of worlds. That sucks. Been there. But it was a bad rebuild by me. Chewed up number one main bearing going up a hill in January. That was a real cold walk home.
Did the same but while offroading.Sucked water into my gay cone filter. Broke connecting rod for 6 :( I never knew what hydrolocking was until I had to pay for it lol
My cousin was flying a small private plane when a connecting rod broke -- went right through the block. He landed safely, but the experience was ... "exciting". (It does get you attention.)
I’ve read a bunch of the comments and I mean no disrespect but I too do not believe the cause of the broken ring land was hydro lock. If it had a bent rod then yeah hydro lock. Ring land failure just screams detonation to me. Part of the reason I say this is that you have the hydro lock recorded and it didn’t even hit hard, it’s not like the engine was running at rpm and sucked water, it didn’t even try to fire it just cranked and stopped. The rings were not the issue in my mind, improperly gaped rings will pull the top of the piston off and destroy the bore. It’s been said on here before that detonation could be the issue due to ignition control, more precisely timing control. I know your running an msd box with a boost referenced timing curve but there are many factors that are not taken into account by that box. Intake temp, and knock were two that I saw mentioned earlier but another one that I did not see that may be a factor is your fuel. I’m sure your not running 87 in the car but if your running a different fuel than what the car was tuned on (e15, e10, 91, 93) that can make a huge difference and right now with no knock sensor that ignition box has no idea to pull out more timing in an event where it starts to detonate. I’m not trying to rock the boat or say that your wrong, just please take a look at all the options of how this could have happened and take steps to prevent them from happening again.
Its possible, but as someone else above us pointed out, if it was detonation related it was more then likely caused by the dyno pulls, when it got lean going into the boost and they kept pushing anyway. Probably weakened the piston id bet. As for the starter breaking stuff like this, I've seen it happen before. Usually with a high torque starter (like I'm sure Eric is running). You see weird failures like this a lot in Ford diesels, where the number 7 and 8 cylinders fill with coolant (or fuel) and something breaks when you attempt to start it. Obviously this isn't a super high compression engine, but I'm sure that starter is up to the task. You'll see bent rods, broken pistons, at the wrist pin or ring lands, and possibly even holes in pistons, usually combined with a messed up injector.
Yup, cold air intake years ago on a single cam VTEC del sol. wasnt mine but they make parts to put on the cai to prevent hydro lock nowadays... love the channel!
I had hydro lock in 09.2017 It was fixed by removing oil with water and changed oil filter and air filter and new engine oil. This car works fine. It does not burn oil at all from oli change to next oil change. It is Peugeot V6 3.0 year 1999. Awesome engine :)
hydrolocked a Ford F-150 4.2 V6 with the infamous plastic intake manifold gasket failure. Video on my channel. It happened on a cold start after sitting for a week. Pulled the plugs, drained it, drove it into the garage, replaced the lower intake manifold gaskets, drove it another 60,000 miles. Tested compression, straight 150's. Sold it. Got lucky. Hot vs. cold engine might be a factor? Metal is stronger at room temperature, maybe that saved me?
It breaks my heart to hear that this happened. All of the time and money invested into the fairmont and one piston broke causing you to tear the engine apart. Like you said, it could’ve been worse. Fix it, race it, and break it. Then rinse and repeat. The Fairmont will live on.
Bad luck here. I must say at first I was one of your dreaded sceptics however on a second watching of the video I totally agree with your description of what happened. I would replace or have the rod tested as well as the piston. I have to admit this whole Fairmont project has been fantastic. However it has put me off the idea of doing anything like that.. sorry.
Wow , sad to hear your engine got damaged. But on the bright side your Fairmont didn't end up burnt to the ground or worse burnt yourself. Can't wait to see the Fairmont back up and running stronger than ever. Just wondering if you'd been in contact with the Kalvinator engines guys and see what they think of the damage?
Dropped off all the parts at Kalvinator last week. They seem to feel it's fixable with some new parts. They're also going to set up the shaft rocker system for me. It requires a little machining.
Sweet , shaft rockers will be cool. Are those guys doing any other mods while the motor is apart? I suppose on the plus side that now you have everything sorted out as far as all the tube work in the engine bay. I should be fairly straightforward getting the motor back in it. Good luck Eric fingers crossed this will be the last of your problems and you can get back to some fun cruising around in your car.
I got REALLY lucky. Hit a deep pothole one rainy day and fend the entire front end of my Focus down into the flooded area, instantly killed the engine. I threw it in neutral and pushed it up a commercial driveway and walked three blocks home in the rain. Next day I went back and pushed it home, crossed my fingers, took the spark plugs out and cranked the engine over periodically until water stopped shooting out. That was two years ago and still running on the same piston assemblies. Did initially think that I killed it when I hit that pothole though.
Sorry to hear about having that ring land failure with the Fairmont and missing part of the Hot Rod Power Tour. 3 months ago when I saw your video about the fire I noticed / heard how long the fuel pumps ran when to first turned the key, they seemed to run forever and just didn't "sound right". I falsely assumed that you pulled the plugs and spun the motor over before trying to start it, "just in case" the "flooding" was real bad. I am curious how much your were able to "power tour" or how far you got? (Not a fan of "social media". I avoid anything that POTUS would be involved in. Plus my addiction to RUclips is bad enough, don't need Facebook or Twitter to suck up more of my life.) Bowling Green, KY? (Power Tour ended there in 2017, good place to resume the "tour" this year.) Chattanooga, TN? Hoover, AL? Darlington, SC? Raleigh, NC? Would have been nice to see photos or a video of the Fairmont on the 4-lane wide zMAX Dragway on Friday in Concord, NC by the Lowes Motor Speedway.
Probably a very rare and fortunate occurence, buick Park Avenue ultra 3.8L supercharged engine with the poorly designed plastic gasket, slow leaked coolant into the cylinder. Right at startup, engine locked, and fried the starter. Removed the plug on the offending cylinder, turned the engine, and out spouted the coolant like a whale. Replaced intake gasket, reassembled. Been running smooth and great now going on 8 years. Really blessed...guessing the cylinder filled up in a position that didnt bend the rod. Apparently the buick 3.8L of that generation used these plastic intake gaskets that cracked around 30-40k miles. Car now has 210k on it, and still pulls hard. Really blessed...
I am so glad my truck does not have a cold air intake, I drove through a puddle over a year ago which triggered a shut down (my alternator at the time had a few electrical issues), checked the air intake and was glad the box was bone dry.
Had a 283 ci rebuilt a few years back that let loose. The ring land between the 1st and 2nd rings broke all the way around and separated the piston top from the rest of the piston. When I pulled the engine to see what had happened, I found the piston top just low enough where the valves didn't hit it AND a piston skirt that that ran the length of the bore without damaging anything WITH a 1/4-inch of piston missing. I had to rebuild with all new bearings, new cam, and new oil pump. Those little fragments broke teeth inside the oil pump. All the bores were okay and just needed a honing. But doing 2 rebuilds inside of a 4 month period when you aren't racing costs TIME and MONEY. Made a NOTE TO SELF: Do not drive into waters. This was on a Vega station wagon with a hood scoop. The water had climbed over the hood suddenly (I admit I was gong too fast to drive through standing water) and got sucked into the carb. And luckily it only killed one piston, and my refund check.
I used my EV as a boat when we had flooding a few years back, guy behind me in his camry was not so lucky :P Good on you for finding the issue, and fixing it, shit happens, even if you blame yourself.
That was a tough break, man. It is one of those things I have been a bit paranoid about and while I have used cold air induction, it was to the OEM filter housing and I had drilled some smallish drain holes for any water that got in - with heavy rain in mind, and as I was just looking for cooler air and not concerned about any ram effect - but don't know what would have saved the engine from a real dunking. On that, many modern-ish vehicles have some sort of cold air feed from the front of the vehicle, often quite low and behind the bumper area, so I am frequently bemused when I see drivers attempting quite deep water in their cars... and then stalling and climbing out of them. I don't know what their insurance companies have to say about it, but either in direct costs if cover refused, or in excess and higher premiums, it must add up. Whilst your problem 'could' have been down to hydraulicing, it could also have been some other issue or a mixture of both. Rings do rotate as the piston moves, but much faster than you may have been thinking - some studies have suggested as fast as 1:1000, ring to engine rpm - so they may have been past that point thousands of times. Most of the pistons appear to have a good deposit, but a couple of the spark plugs looked a little 'off' - could just be down to the camera, monitor, my old eyes, or whatever - but something to carefully review, especially as chipped ring coatings can also indicate combustion related ring problems or butting ring ends - as you suggest, usually that would be seen as a shiny spot at the ends, but that is usually when the engine immediately fails, not when it is continuing to run and has a chance to build deposits up again. Is there any indication of big end bearing contact - a shinier area? My point, when it comes down to it, is there may still be an issue with the other pistons, the connecting rod (I'd consider that one WIA and replace it), and I'd carefully inspect the head and bore for cracks. You really were lucky, if it was a hydraulic issue - not seen many, but those pretty much destroyed the whole engine as the rpm was much higher and had the weight of the vehicle forcing the engine to rotate. I have even heard of, but not witnessed, diesel engines with leaking injectors building up enough unburned fuel to cause 'lock damage on a running engine - might be an urban legend - though it does happen with top fuel engines if there is a misfire. Oh, FYI, fluids are liquids AND gases ;-)
Noooooooooooooo...... not the Fairmont... aw that blows. I am sorry, I know how hard you worked on her. Hopefully you can get her back running in no time.
Well here is a hydrolock problem in progress. I installed a new FiTech throttle body roughly six months ago. Fired it up and let it idle for 15 minutes or so. No problems so far. Tried to go for a drive around the block, and it stalled out at the first stop. Got it home by keeping some throttle, but it was running horribly. Got it back home into the driveway though. Next day I tried to start it, but just wouldn't fire off. Struggled with that problem for a couple of weeks. At some point the starter stopped being able to turn it over properly. Put a wrench on the crank and all I could get was a partial revolution. Maybe 270 degrees or so. I checked everything that I could think of that would stop the engine from turning - a couple of times the starter turned it over enough to build a little oil pressure. When I was checking the starter and flexplate there was gas dripping from a joint in the exhaust system. Finally I took out all the plugs to make it easier to rotate by hand. All of a sudden there was a shower of gas from above. It missed me, but I have never heard of such a thing. For some reason gas seems to accumulate in cylinder 8. Got everything dried out the best I could, but still not starting. I'm off to get some penetrating oil this morning and a new starter. Maybe I can get it rotating fast enough to blow out the combustion chambers and try again. The FiTech has a key on prime shot feature that doesn't help the hydrolock problem. It also gives another prime shot when the engine turns over twice. It seems that when the engine doesn't fire up that all this gas is flooding to the extreme. I have also been thinking about the effect on the oxygen sensor. Everything about the FiTech runs off the oxygen sensor signal. I think that it is possible that there is so much fuel in the exhaust lines that when starting the FiTech sees no need to inject. Going to try hanging the oxygen sensor loose in the air to try that theory out if necessary.. Wish me luck!
Had a cold air intake installed on my 2003 Honda Accord. I was a young and naive driver at the time. Rushing to get to work one day there was flash flooding in my neighborhood. I drove right into a huge pool of water and the engine shut off. I stupidly attempted to start it again and you can guess what happened next. I pulled the plugs out to try to get the water out but the damage was already done. New motor went in about a week late. Learned my lesson.
All right, been running well for the last month or so. Quickest solution in this case would have been to visually check that the key on prime shot was turning off. Then pull the plugs, blow out the combustion chambers with the starter, change the oil and filter. Repair the throttle body before blowing out the combustion chambers. Live and learn!
I worked at Mazda near a known flooding area and RX8 owners always felt the need to drive in flood water. Hydrostatic lock does terrible things to a rotary engine. The block plates usually split apart.
Thankfully I haven't experienced it on any of my own vehicles, but have a buddy with a 6.0 Silverado who was out playing and hit a big puddle he thought was shallow. instantly went from wide open 6000 rpm to rod hole in block. Lesson learned.
I live in Houston, TX i saw alot of crazy water damage to cars after hurricane Harvey. One truck that came in drove thru water then a month later wouldn't start. When it came to my shop the first thing i noticed was the fan had fallen out with the drive belt. Fixed it and it still wouldn't start. After doing some more digging I found it had also jumped a few teeth on the timing belt. I replaced the timing belt and retimed it, it ran after that. The guy was lucky don't ask me if its still running, never saw it again after that.
Detonation and hydrolock are both possible, I've seen stuff that shouldn't happen, happen in engines, so who knows really. Saw a PowerStroke blow a glow plug out of a head once, that was something interesting.
had my da integra shut off in the rain once, due to water getting in the intake manifold. Not thinking anything about it, cranked it, started right up without issue. Engine did miss a few times I suspect from sucking through the remaining water. But ive put 10k miles on it since then, and no issues whatsoever. No smoke no blow by, still gets amazing compression. Engine is a honda b18a1 all stock except acl race bearings.
I never experienced it myself in 30 years of driving. I saw one engine that was underwater for a few hours (it had not been running when flooded). My father was a car mechanic en he took the engine out, removed the head and the plugs and let it sit for a few weeks. After inspection all seemed dry and as far as I know, the engine was good again.
You should have sprayed some brake clean in the cylinder in the beginning to verify the integrity of the rings, etc. Haha! Sorry to hear about the problems with the Fairmont. At least you got 4,000 miles out of it before major rebuild.
I almost hydro locked an engine on an 04 Altima 2.5 trying to get it running. The owner needed the water pump and thermostats changed I fired it up oil was water free before hand. Tried bleeding the system and realized it had a serious air issue in the cooling system. Pulled the dipstick and sure enough had water mixing. Pulled plugs, soaked in coolant and cylinder 4 was the worst. Owner admitted after a serious venting that it over heated once and that was enough to warp the head. Luckily I caught it before serious damage had occurred. Just got the head back today. Only 85 to surface and pressure test. If you are ever in Central Florida take a trip to Central Florida Machine and Speed. They are fair, honest and reliable. They also build high performance engines and keep AFR heads in stock and other brands of parts for all your domestic engine needs. They also don't charge much but will be raising prices soon, but not by much.
Yes, if its suspected, do that. But how will you know? In this case, the fuel pump caused an unnoticeable leak into the engine. If you do suspect anything, just pull the plugs and turn the engine over. This will push the liquid out of the now open cylinders. For the maybe hour of work on some cars, its much safer than taking a chance and now needing an engine rebuild.
This is a special situation, not all cars will be this effected by trying to start a flooded engine. Erics car has hot cams and low clearances inside the engine because it is built. A stock engine has better chance of survival in this situation because reasons, but also probably wont flood itself.
So to prevent hydrolock in an engine, if somehow an excessive amount of moisture is introduced into the engine, do you just take it apart and clean everything out or do you just replace everything?
That’s the most fucked up news Ever, what a shame, I’ve watched every video you made with Kevin, I hope you get it back on the road, I wish you the best of luck.
I have seen holes punched in pistons when coolant is sucked into the intake manifold on a 72 Ford Pinto 2.0 Liter engine. There is a water line that goes between the number 2 and 3 ports with about a 1- 2 mm gasket between the water line and intake ports. The Gasket failed while the engine was running and coolant was sucked into the intake and on the compression stroke, bam a nice hole roughly the size of the 50 cent piece in the top of the piston, plus a bent connecting rod. The owner decided to scrape rather than repair. (It had other issues, worn suspension, slipping transmission and bad bearing in the differential. Only 68,000 miles and the car was totally shot.
Hydrostatic lock can also come from too much oil in the cylinder. My Porsche 996 Air Oil Separator went out, so it was letting a LOT of oil into the cylinders. I was scared shitless that it would hydrolock before I was able to drive it to the shop for replacement of the AOS.
Wow! You really dodged a bullet. I just had the heads off of a 2002 Ford 5.4. Because it had low compression (among other issues) on #4, I figured he had the usual Ford valve-train issue (stuck open valve). It wasn't. Once I had the head off, I couldn't believe the amount of scoring inside that cylinder. Long story short, he had been 4-wheeling through some Pennsylvania creeks. When he got in over the air intake, it quit with a thud. His buddies got it running again (I suppose they took the plugs out of it in the woods) and he never thought about it again...until he brought it to me with a check engine light...the O2 sensors were covered with globs of crud. When I got the piston out of the #4 hole I found the top ring had broken into several pieces, several of which were the size of fine gravel. These sort of "rolled" around in the ring groove, exposing a new "cutting edge" to the cylinder wall until there were grooves you could easily catch with your finger-nails all the way around the cylinder. You were really lucky your ring was still in large pieces.
ETCG1: Hi Pro-Logic I very much liked how you explained hydrostatic lock and it's dangers also at time mark 4:52/8:45 - :52/8:45 The connecting rod when straight (not bent) will get the job done nicely how ever *(see note at end of comment) [when the connecting rod is bent and how much it is bent] will continue to bend more and more until failure. so. : *Note , if the connecting rod is slightly bent it will last a little longer than a connecting rod the is severely bent plus when the metal is bent it tends to lose some of it's structural integrity else when the connecting rod is straight it will only experience compression forces only in a straight line (connecting rod not bent) .
My old timer mechanics favorite saying was "We'll fix it even if takes all the money you got" and "I'd rather you just owe me the money than have ya cheat me out of it"
I sold a expedition with a 4.6 in it. Had 370k+ miles on it but ran like an absolute top. Transmission started to fail but I continued to drive it. Injectors stuck wide open and it would smoke very bad out the exhaust and have a miss. Would come and go. Eventually I went to crank it up and just so happen an injector was stuck open... Same thing as you. Engine wouldnt turn over any more. Got the gas out the cylinder through the spark plug. and it fired up and run but had a loud tick... I knew at that point it had some damage. I sold it to a friend. He drove it until the trans failed completely. He wanted it for parts and was only interested in the brake calipers and heater core. He was aware that both the trans and engine were bad or going bad. He then resold it to a friend of his's parents. They put a transmission in it and are still driving it today. Engine still ticks all the same. They did replace the injectors and rail though. It runs fine aswell and so far doesnt appear to have any negative impacts thats affecting the engines ability to run
Someone hydrolocked their car. He went to start it, the starter turned until it hit compression, and stalled out the starter! He then proceeded to bump start it down a steep downhill, this is a manual transmission car, in second gear. He blew the motor instantly and the block looked like he just ran a 500 shot of nitrous through it, there were pieces everywhere, all because of a leaky head gasket, which leaked coolant into the cylinder, causing a hydrolocked situation.
Man, wish I'd have known you were in Carlisle. Would've been cool to meet you and Oliver. I live right on the edge of the fairgrounds, so maybe I'll catch you next time!
Yep, flood happened about 6-7 years ago here in Melb, went through the water, and boom, sent two pistons through the bottom of the block, and as they went through took parts of the crank with them. The mechanic was very impressed lol, however V6 Camry engines are not cheap, so I kinda wasn't. Also, fun fact, liquids are indeed compressible, however, they are many orders of magnitude smaller than gases, I found this out when not taking the amount of compression of kerosine for a rocket engine I was building, and inevitably put more fuel into the chamber than I had designed. Even small amounts matter, any machinist knows a thou can make all the difference. In engines tho, it's a killer.
what is it with folks and trying to drive through water :))) I mean, my whole intake system is 4+ feet in the air and it would take over 3' of water to get me wet inside. and i still wont go through water deeper than 1/2 foot. then again I know it effects brakes, ball-joints, wheel bearings, tie-rods, cv's u-joints, rear end, alternator, belt/pulleys, etc etc etc...... not to mention cold water on outside of engine is a huge thermal shock and can crack the block/heads etc. ohwell
I have a Fiero with a sbc in it. It has been sitting in my garage because of bent rods, from a hydra lock. This was due to heavy rains from a hurricane that went into my carb from a air scoop on rear deck lid. This actually happened twice. First time it did not start, just locked, so I pulled plugs spun the engine, changed the oil, and all was good. Second time it cranked and started, which was the straw that did you know what.
Glad to see the pictures and video a little better than on twitter. Silly phone is too small to see the details. I think the pitting on the ring is interesting and a good catch. Those pesky details.
My co worker loved driving through puddles with his 4.7 Dodge Ram, until he hydrolocked it. He took it to Mexico to get it fixed for dirt cheap compared to US prices. He even paid the mechanics extra so that his truck was top priority (money talks there). He drove it back, and it was running fine until it started running rich, black smoke rich. It was a bad O2 sensor. He replaced that, and removed the air box that sucked water from the fender. He installed a dual head "cold" air intake that sits on top the engine.
About 6 years ago I drove my old first car (1989 Honda Accord) into a small body of water. Someone had a random big ass hole in their front yard. I was unaware of this and it had a bunch of rain water in it, plus it was night time. I was sure it was screwed. Water was up to the top of the front passenger side wheel for over an hour and also soaked the interior of the car which took weeks to dry out. One thing I might've done right was shut it off pretty quick. Although, after we pulled her out it turned over and I drove home the next morning. Apparently this messed up the float in carb somehow and caused fuel flooding which was later fixed with a minor rebuild.. more like shock damage idk. Still cranks and runs to this day, getting 28 mpg with its rough idling carburetor. I just repainted her and take it out occasionally as my awkward classic. Perhaps eventually it will lock up, I don't know but so far so good Great car tbh! lol
ouch, that sucks! at least you caught it fairly early and didn't mop the block and many parts. for sure check the con rods. valves should be fine since it wasn't hot/running and quenched with cold liquid. while it's apart give them a all check. piston ring lands too tight could be an issue(ring side clearance) and you'd likely not see markings on the ring ends, it would be on the sides if anything, but the piston would likely be chewed and ring stuck with aluminum smearing everywhere and unless there was a poorly machined piston, it's "not" the issue. since we know it locked solid and only one piston broke, it seems very logical it was from the big gulp of liquid while cranking.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Bigger In Texas [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QxTkZTLWdo4/mqdefault.jpg)
Etcg1 people that go out of there way to explain things in detail like you with your busy career and family life are hard to find you're a blessing Eric I appreciate your work hard work that is.
One of the best and worst things about having a little automotive knowledge is the dread when you notice something isn't "right". Most people see a little smoke or feel a little fishbite or notice a loss on power and blow it off or don't worry about it. Unfortunately I know those little things probably keep you up at night, especially with a car like the Fairmont that you've put so much of your time, money, and love into. Glad you got it figured out and can move forward.
SPLEclipse Reminds me of the time I went to do an oil change on my mom’s car, reversing it into the shop the trans just didn’t feel right, drop the pan & it’s full of metal, my mom had no clue!
Oh gosh yes those things keep me up at night. And even more so when I can't do anything with the car for a few days! Something feels off, catch a bit of an odd smell, lost a bit of coolant or what ever. Yeah it freaks me out a bit.
So glad I've never experienced this issue. Would so suck to have an engine self-destruct! All that time, effort and money . . . gone. You truly got lucky. My sister and I ran through a creek and didn't even make it across when we heard a sharp SNAP! Cracked block. It was a really bad night, because it was storming (gale force winds and rain) and we ended up walking for miles before finding a phone and calling our folks.
Awesome video Eric this was extremely informative. I hydrolocked my girlfriends 07' caravan when a river overflowed onto the road and almost took the whole van with it. Got out and waited for the water to come down then i pulled the plugs, cranked it and shot all the water up then it drove fine for 3 months until just like you said complete failure of a connecting rod that was bent during the hydrolock situation! We look back on it as a blessing because we got her a 02' civic lx 5spd that is her baby!
Crazy, I had water get into my "cold air intake" on my MK3 VW Golf ABA engine to the point that it shut down. 50,000 miles later still running like a champ!!
The hydrostatic lock phenomenon is an important one and I'm happy that you vlogged about it. You did a great job of describing the phenomenon and showing the damage. I'm sorry to read that this caused your engine trouble, but now you have an excuse to put more speed parts on it! Yeay!
That all said, "driving through a puddle" is almost certainly not going to get enough fluid into an engine to lock it up. Excluding the engine fluids, getting another fluid into an engine to cause this sort of thing usually requires a stock vehicle engine either being pretty close to completely underwater to get it past the air filter (manufacturers and engineers design to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen in 'normal' driving).
I've personally driven stock vehicles with water above the axles (both on and off road) with & without inner fender flaps, as well as through completely torrential rains and still not had water get into the engine. Yes, I wasn't trying to go fast, but my point is that a "puddle" isn't going to have enough water to create an issue when even vehicle use through dramatically flooded areas don't usually cause problems with hydrostatic lock.
I am sorry to hear that this happened to you. I'm sure it really feels like a kick in the rear. Glad you seem to be looking at it from a good prospective and using it as a way to continue to teach people.
Bad news for the Fairmont, but... that means more videos for us! Thank you for all the info you share, I learn so much.
So I replaced the seals and mounts on a 3 cylinder diesel yanmar inboard a few weeks ago...the saltwater cooling intake pump overflooded he exhaust and forced water into cylinder 1. I also may have had a backflow issue from the return line. Pretty sure it hydrolocked and now I am pretty nervous that I damaged it trying to start it up. Lesson: if you think its flooded, stop cranking immediately. I may need to remove and inspect the cylinders now...huge job, especially on a boat.
A project is never finnished... Stuff like this happens. It sucks.
On the upside - more Fairmont videos!
Agreed! I really like the fairmont videos, they remind me of the cars I started out with, (and some I REALLY wish I'd kept!) Also, the modifications Eric is doing are some I wish I could've done, or could do. These videos let me wrench vicariously with Eric. ☺
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes are you guys keen on calling it DMPC1 for short ?
There's a special place in my heart for people who take really terrible or fugly cars and make them kinda cool. This Fairmont (and the Futura) is one of those cars! Ah .. the 80's.
Eric, you should talk to the Top Fuel crews, The masters of hydraulic lock! Once the spark goes out and the nitro keeps filling the cylinder,the rest is history. Its a good day if only one cyl breaks a ring land normally it leads to those spectacular "And They Walked Away!" videos where the block splits in half with the blower in the drivers lap! Welcome to the world of forced induction
U just presented another reason to avoid flood cars... OR anything used for THAT fact... Thankyou for sharing ETCG#1👍👍YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY AMAZING !!!!
When I was a kid, a mate of mine had a Toyota 4-Runner diesel. We went off-roading and he dipped the front into a water hole and the engine locked. Thankfully, the engine was idling at the time. So we sat on the fenders and took out the glow plugs, squirted the water out with the starter motor, then reinstalled them and the damn thing fired right up. After another 4 years as a daily driver, it was still running well - I would guess we dodged the bullet that time.
On the other hand, I've seen a few cars over the years that tried to power through a deeper-than-expected puddle and the engine kicked a leg out of bed (read: perforated the block with a con rod.) That was quite a mess.
Driving through an unfamiliar place during a Florida rain storm, and I coast through what LOOKED like just a bit of water on the road. It turned out to be a huge pool of water. I was going ~10 mph and suddenly my car says, "I don't feel so good" and sputters a bit before I turn the engine off.
Cried in the rain, pushed my car into a parking spot, got it towed, got the water out, new plugs, new MAF. Started right up.
It's been 1.5 years and 15K+ miles, motor is still going strong (still burns oil but that's a Honda problem hehe).
But I guess I'll just have to wait around for my conrod to snap lol, thanks, Eric.
Dude, that totally sucked! -Thank you for sharing your experiences!
Sorry to hear about this, but like you said, it could've been a whole hell of a lot worse. The inside of that cylinder bore looks perfectly fine -- no scorching or gouging, so I think you're good there. You didn't mention it, but I assume you checked the connecting rod on that cylinder to ensure it's still true?
I did yes. I also left it with the machinist to double check it.
Friendly advice from experience... check all 8 rods.
This is a very smart video. I repaired a Evo X engine that had a piston that cracked just like that a few years back, but never knew what really happened to it (you know how customers omit the truth/lie). This video gives me some new perspective on what might have cracked that piston. I replaced that piston, put new rings on the rest, flex-honed all cylinders, replaced all rod bearings, and it's been social media verified to have been out there getting beat on on and street racing with modifications for 3 years now. I wanted to make a video of that job, but the footage turned out pretty bad. I only ended up posting a video of flex-honing it.
Great video though, it really made me glad I'm still making sure to watch ETCG1 videos.
I was hoping you were talking about the mini, then I seen over your shoulder, the fairmont up on the lift, with dark matter Pikachu disassembled, Noooo, Last week my wife’s car broke down, on the exact same day that mine started running like a pig, “that’s a car guys life”, at least I had fun getting dirty fixing them both
Bummer. I'm glad you found it early though, without a bigger bang helping you find it.
Faulty fuel pressure regulator is the gift that keeps on giving the whole year, Clark.
Eric, very close to the same thing happened to a friend of mine back in 1999 on his Integra GSR. Water got into one cylinder and fractured one of the connecting rods but kept running with a little misfire here or there. About 9 -12 days later, rod goes right through the piston. GSR block was beyond repair, replaced it with an LS block and put the GSR head on it, even had the VTEC working proper. turned out to be a faster car that wa. But I'm very glad everything worked out for you. its a beautiful car and motor.
Just had one occur with a 1998 Tacoma 2.7 today. Engine ran rough briefly upon start up occasionally over the course of 1 or 2 weeks with minimal driving. Drove one day fine on a 15 min trip, idled for about an hour with AC on, filled with gas. Re-Started and sounded rough like all the cylinders weren't firing, it smoothed out as it normally did. Stopped at gym turned it off; worked out a couple hours, but it wouldn't start after that. Fun times; possibly getting a new engine. Mechanic said it was a small coolant leak into one of the cylinders that's causing the hydrolock issue. They managed to get it started but couldn't guarantee continued operation. Recommended a new engine from a junkyard or repossessed vehicle.
Good video. Just trying to learn more about type of engine failure and possible solutions.
Might interest you that aircraft radial engines are turned over by hand to guard against hydraulic lock by oil ingress while stationary. Love your content ETCG and your easy going manner!
I live about 45min away from the Dayton Aircraft Museum. 😉 Also, I seriously considered getting into aviation mechanics before I went into automotive. I've loved planes since I was a kid. Thanks for the comment.
Eric I'm so sorry, what a frustrating experience. As you say, hydrolock could precipitate a late failure, weeks later.
Good god. I loved rain puddles. you know those 6-8 inch deep puddles you get when the rain channels overflow on heavy rains. Guess I'll be avoiding them now. Thanks for sharing. problems like this occasionally coined as failures are hardly ever shared. Thank you so much. Never had a car engine shut off from the puddles though.
I'm not entirely convinced that the hydrostatic lock was the root cause of all of this. My money is on the guy dynoing the engine, pushing it at full throttle with boost even though he was well aware it was super lean. The severe detonation that occurred during that time probably weakened the piston enough to cause it to break during the hydro lock situation. I can't imagine a forged piston breaking that easily with the starter motor pushing against it. Not hating, trolling or anything like that, just my 2 cents.
there's no way to tell if the engine fired a cylinder and hammered it self hard. even with the video he has/showed of it locking on crank over.
6speeddakota totally with you, but he run the engine in the car too lean for too long.
Yup I agree, generally piston failed for hydrolock would crack the piston across the combustion surface. This was 90% more than likely from detonation or having to tight of a ring gap althou since the bores are still fine it was probably fine on the ring gap.
Do you not know what detonation look likes when you read a plug?
I do know what detonation looks like on a plug but whose to say the plugs haven't been changed since it was on the dyno ic you seen that video of it going super lean on the dyno when it was in boost I can guarantee you that thing was detonating.
Excellent information Eric. I've had the same issues with a 4.6L Ford. Just went ahead and replaced the motor.
Never seen long term damage like this from hydro locking. Extremely interesting and good to know!
You've never been out with the offroading crowd then. We shatter con rods & drop valves for fun.
That's because this damage isn't from hydrolocking. It's from fucking up a build.
@@rangerdoc1029hydrolock with a running engine at speed is WAY different than a little starter hydrolocking during a crank cycle.
While this vlog gives me a stomach ache from the damage, it does serve as a very strong reminder that hydrostatic lock can kill even the nicest of engines. Very sorry that Dark Matter Pikachu came to an untimely end, but glad that the lessons will continue, and that we'll see new and even more exciting things in future.
A number of years ago Mom's cutlass lost an engine to this. I was home on leave after my Step-Dad had replaced the engine asking questions about why her old engine failed and nobody knew. I finally found that the windshield wiper linkages had 'sawed' through some vacuum-line in the cowl area. That allowed a ton of rainwater (Alaska) to fill up the intake and one apparently one cylinder. Then the motor was started and promptly stopped (KIA). Glad I found it or it could have cost her a 2nd engine as well.
Best show and tell on hydrostatic lock I have seen on Ytube
Had a cold air intake on my car hit a puddle in Charlotte instantly blew my motor shot the rods out the block still have the block with the rod sticking out of it in the back of a Toyota Camry
Boom
This, and the mighty car mods episode on pod filters, is why i will always run a factory air box.
Unless im building a fire breathing monster...
M&R Tuning That would suck! I’ve got a cold air intake for my 240 because I wasn’t able to find a factory box, I plan to build a splash shield of some sort around it.
You killed a Camry? I bow to Thanos, destroyer of worlds.
That sucks. Been there. But it was a bad rebuild by me. Chewed up number one main bearing going up a hill in January. That was a real cold walk home.
Did the same but while offroading.Sucked water into my gay cone filter. Broke connecting rod for 6 :( I never knew what hydrolocking was until I had to pay for it lol
"cold liquid intake" ;))))
Oh nooooooo !!! #DarkMatterPikkachu !!
So sad but I know you'll get it back in an even better shape Eric !
Damn man, sorry to hear about the bad luck, I hope it is a quick, easy fix. I really hope to see this car in action sometime.
My cousin was flying a small private plane when a connecting rod broke -- went right through the block. He landed safely, but the experience was ... "exciting". (It does get you attention.)
I’ve read a bunch of the comments and I mean no disrespect but I too do not believe the cause of the broken ring land was hydro lock. If it had a bent rod then yeah hydro lock. Ring land failure just screams detonation to me. Part of the reason I say this is that you have the hydro lock recorded and it didn’t even hit hard, it’s not like the engine was running at rpm and sucked water, it didn’t even try to fire it just cranked and stopped.
The rings were not the issue in my mind, improperly gaped rings will pull the top of the piston off and destroy the bore.
It’s been said on here before that detonation could be the issue due to ignition control, more precisely timing control. I know your running an msd box with a boost referenced timing curve but there are many factors that are not taken into account by that box. Intake temp, and knock were two that I saw mentioned earlier but another one that I did not see that may be a factor is your fuel. I’m sure your not running 87 in the car but if your running a different fuel than what the car was tuned on (e15, e10, 91, 93) that can make a huge difference and right now with no knock sensor that ignition box has no idea to pull out more timing in an event where it starts to detonate.
I’m not trying to rock the boat or say that your wrong, just please take a look at all the options of how this could have happened and take steps to prevent them from happening again.
Its possible, but as someone else above us pointed out, if it was detonation related it was more then likely caused by the dyno pulls, when it got lean going into the boost and they kept pushing anyway. Probably weakened the piston id bet.
As for the starter breaking stuff like this, I've seen it happen before. Usually with a high torque starter (like I'm sure Eric is running). You see weird failures like this a lot in Ford diesels, where the number 7 and 8 cylinders fill with coolant (or fuel) and something breaks when you attempt to start it. Obviously this isn't a super high compression engine, but I'm sure that starter is up to the task.
You'll see bent rods, broken pistons, at the wrist pin or ring lands, and possibly even holes in pistons, usually combined with a messed up injector.
@@sparkplug1018 what the hell are you smoking dickey?????
Yup, cold air intake years ago on a single cam VTEC del sol. wasnt mine but they make parts to put on the cai to prevent hydro lock nowadays... love the channel!
I had hydro lock in 09.2017 It was fixed by removing oil with water and changed oil filter and air filter and new engine oil. This car works fine. It does not burn oil at all from oli change to next oil change. It is Peugeot V6 3.0 year 1999. Awesome engine :)
Very interesting Eric, thanks for posting such valueble information. The apreciation is on this site. Stay greasy! Keep posting!
That sucks, man. That engine's been through so much in such a short time span.
Hopefully all the kinks are out now.
Sucks that it happened Eric, but incredible video with real footage and not theory!
hydrolocked a Ford F-150 4.2 V6 with the infamous plastic intake manifold gasket failure. Video on my channel. It happened on a cold start after sitting for a week. Pulled the plugs, drained it, drove it into the garage, replaced the lower intake manifold gaskets, drove it another 60,000 miles. Tested compression, straight 150's. Sold it. Got lucky. Hot vs. cold engine might be a factor? Metal is stronger at room temperature, maybe that saved me?
It breaks my heart to hear that this happened. All of the time and money invested into the fairmont and one piston broke causing you to tear the engine apart. Like you said, it could’ve been worse.
Fix it, race it, and break it. Then rinse and repeat. The Fairmont will live on.
That's how it goes....
Sorry to hear about this. Damn. GL with getting her back up and running...
Bad luck here. I must say at first I was one of your dreaded sceptics however on a second watching of the video I totally agree with your description of what happened. I would replace or have the rod tested as well as the piston.
I have to admit this whole Fairmont project has been fantastic. However it has put me off the idea of doing anything like that.. sorry.
If Ash taught us anything. It’s Pikachu will always get back up. Can’t wait for the upgrade video.
May also attack if it doesn't like what you're doing. But hey any pet will bite once in a while right?
Wow , sad to hear your engine got damaged. But on the bright side your Fairmont didn't end up burnt to the ground or worse burnt yourself. Can't wait to see the Fairmont back up and running stronger than ever. Just wondering if you'd been in contact with the Kalvinator engines guys and see what they think of the damage?
Dropped off all the parts at Kalvinator last week. They seem to feel it's fixable with some new parts. They're also going to set up the shaft rocker system for me. It requires a little machining.
Sweet , shaft rockers will be cool. Are those guys doing any other mods while the motor is apart? I suppose on the plus side that now you have everything sorted out as far as all the tube work in the engine bay. I should be fairly straightforward getting the motor back in it. Good luck Eric fingers crossed this will be the last of your problems and you can get back to some fun cruising around in your car.
I got REALLY lucky. Hit a deep pothole one rainy day and fend the entire front end of my Focus down into the flooded area, instantly killed the engine. I threw it in neutral and pushed it up a commercial driveway and walked three blocks home in the rain. Next day I went back and pushed it home, crossed my fingers, took the spark plugs out and cranked the engine over periodically until water stopped shooting out. That was two years ago and still running on the same piston assemblies. Did initially think that I killed it when I hit that pothole though.
Sorry to hear about having that ring land failure with the Fairmont and missing part of the Hot Rod Power Tour. 3 months ago when I saw your video about the fire I noticed / heard how long the fuel pumps ran when to first turned the key, they seemed to run forever and just didn't "sound right". I falsely assumed that you pulled the plugs and spun the motor over before trying to start it, "just in case" the "flooding" was real bad.
I am curious how much your were able to "power tour" or how far you got? (Not a fan of "social media". I avoid anything that POTUS would be involved in. Plus my addiction to RUclips is bad enough, don't need Facebook or Twitter to suck up more of my life.) Bowling Green, KY? (Power Tour ended there in 2017, good place to resume the "tour" this year.) Chattanooga, TN? Hoover, AL? Darlington, SC? Raleigh, NC? Would have been nice to see photos or a video of the Fairmont on the 4-lane wide zMAX Dragway on Friday in Concord, NC by the Lowes Motor Speedway.
Probably a very rare and fortunate occurence, buick Park Avenue ultra 3.8L supercharged engine with the poorly designed plastic gasket, slow leaked coolant into the cylinder. Right at startup, engine locked, and fried the starter. Removed the plug on the offending cylinder, turned the engine, and out spouted the coolant like a whale. Replaced intake gasket, reassembled. Been running smooth and great now going on 8 years. Really blessed...guessing the cylinder filled up in a position that didnt bend the rod. Apparently the buick 3.8L of that generation used these plastic intake gaskets that cracked around 30-40k miles. Car now has 210k on it, and still pulls hard. Really blessed...
I am so glad my truck does not have a cold air intake, I drove through a puddle over a year ago which triggered a shut down (my alternator at the time had a few electrical issues), checked the air intake and was glad the box was bone dry.
Eric I have been subscribed for a long time and every Video I watch brings back memories of earlier days. Thank you for all of your valiant efforts.
Eric, you are a very smart and articulate guy, so I was not expecting "it could have went..." from you.:)
Had a 283 ci rebuilt a few years back that let loose. The ring land between the 1st and 2nd rings broke all the way around and separated the piston top from the rest of the piston. When I pulled the engine to see what had happened, I found the piston top just low enough where the valves didn't hit it AND a piston skirt that that ran the length of the bore without damaging anything WITH a 1/4-inch of piston missing. I had to rebuild with all new bearings, new cam, and new oil pump. Those little fragments broke teeth inside the oil pump. All the bores were okay and just needed a honing. But doing 2 rebuilds inside of a 4 month period when you aren't racing costs TIME and MONEY. Made a NOTE TO SELF: Do not drive into waters. This was on a Vega station wagon with a hood scoop. The water had climbed over the hood suddenly (I admit I was gong too fast to drive through standing water) and got sucked into the carb. And luckily it only killed one piston, and my refund check.
Just choose to watch your video on my birthday forgetting that you wish a happy birthday, best thing ever
I used my EV as a boat when we had flooding a few years back, guy behind me in his camry was not so lucky :P
Good on you for finding the issue, and fixing it, shit happens, even if you blame yourself.
Broken ring lands... Your car just had a Subaru moment
+
Subaruian way of life
Channeling its inner EJ.
Chevy cruze 1.4 bad MAF style!
Hey at least the head gaskets were ok
That was a tough break, man.
It is one of those things I have been a bit paranoid about and while I have used cold air induction, it was to the OEM filter housing and I had drilled some smallish drain holes for any water that got in - with heavy rain in mind, and as I was just looking for cooler air and not concerned about any ram effect - but don't know what would have saved the engine from a real dunking.
On that, many modern-ish vehicles have some sort of cold air feed from the front of the vehicle, often quite low and behind the bumper area, so I am frequently bemused when I see drivers attempting quite deep water in their cars... and then stalling and climbing out of them. I don't know what their insurance companies have to say about it, but either in direct costs if cover refused, or in excess and higher premiums, it must add up.
Whilst your problem 'could' have been down to hydraulicing, it could also have been some other issue or a mixture of both. Rings do rotate as the piston moves, but much faster than you may have been thinking - some studies have suggested as fast as 1:1000, ring to engine rpm - so they may have been past that point thousands of times. Most of the pistons appear to have a good deposit, but a couple of the spark plugs looked a little 'off' - could just be down to the camera, monitor, my old eyes, or whatever - but something to carefully review, especially as chipped ring coatings can also indicate combustion related ring problems or butting ring ends - as you suggest, usually that would be seen as a shiny spot at the ends, but that is usually when the engine immediately fails, not when it is continuing to run and has a chance to build deposits up again. Is there any indication of big end bearing contact - a shinier area?
My point, when it comes down to it, is there may still be an issue with the other pistons, the connecting rod (I'd consider that one WIA and replace it), and I'd carefully inspect the head and bore for cracks.
You really were lucky, if it was a hydraulic issue - not seen many, but those pretty much destroyed the whole engine as the rpm was much higher and had the weight of the vehicle forcing the engine to rotate. I have even heard of, but not witnessed, diesel engines with leaking injectors building up enough unburned fuel to cause 'lock damage on a running engine - might be an urban legend - though it does happen with top fuel engines if there is a misfire.
Oh, FYI, fluids are liquids AND gases ;-)
It is my birthday!! Thanks etcg you're the first person to wish me happy birthday on this day!
Happy Birthday!
Excellent job explaining things as always.
THX Eric for the wishes for my birthday :-)
Noooooooooooooo...... not the Fairmont... aw that blows. I am sorry, I know how hard you worked on her. Hopefully you can get her back running in no time.
Well here is a hydrolock problem in progress. I installed a new FiTech throttle body roughly six months ago. Fired it up and let it idle for 15 minutes or so. No problems so far. Tried to go for a drive around the block, and it stalled out at the first stop. Got it home by keeping some throttle, but it was running horribly. Got it back home into the driveway though.
Next day I tried to start it, but just wouldn't fire off. Struggled with that problem for a couple of weeks. At some point the starter stopped being able to turn it over properly. Put a wrench on the crank and all I could get was a partial revolution. Maybe 270 degrees or so. I checked everything that I could think of that would stop the engine from turning - a couple of times the starter turned it over enough to build a little oil pressure. When I was checking the starter and flexplate there was gas dripping from a joint in the exhaust system.
Finally I took out all the plugs to make it easier to rotate by hand. All of a sudden there was a shower of gas from above. It missed me, but I have never heard of such a thing. For some reason gas seems to accumulate in cylinder 8. Got everything dried out the best I could, but still not starting. I'm off to get some penetrating oil this morning and a new starter. Maybe I can get it rotating fast enough to blow out the combustion chambers and try again.
The FiTech has a key on prime shot feature that doesn't help the hydrolock problem. It also gives another prime shot when the engine turns over twice. It seems that when the engine doesn't fire up that all this gas is flooding to the extreme. I have also been thinking about the effect on the oxygen sensor. Everything about the FiTech runs off the oxygen sensor signal. I think that it is possible that there is so much fuel in the exhaust lines that when starting the FiTech sees no need to inject. Going to try hanging the oxygen sensor loose in the air to try that theory out if necessary..
Wish me luck!
Had a cold air intake installed on my 2003 Honda Accord. I was a young and naive driver at the time. Rushing to get to work one day there was flash flooding in my neighborhood. I drove right into a huge pool of water and the engine shut off. I stupidly attempted to start it again and you can guess what happened next. I pulled the plugs out to try to get the water out but the damage was already done. New motor went in about a week late. Learned my lesson.
All right, been running well for the last month or so. Quickest solution in this case would have been to visually check that the key on prime shot was turning off. Then pull the plugs, blow out the combustion chambers with the starter, change the oil and filter. Repair the throttle body before blowing out the combustion chambers. Live and learn!
Glad you didn't send a rod through the block....would have been devastated as the project feels like it was JUST finished.
I worked at Mazda near a known flooding area and RX8 owners always felt the need to drive in flood water. Hydrostatic lock does terrible things to a rotary engine. The block plates usually split apart.
Thankfully I haven't experienced it on any of my own vehicles, but have a buddy with a 6.0 Silverado who was out playing and hit a big puddle he thought was shallow. instantly went from wide open 6000 rpm to rod hole in block. Lesson learned.
I live in Houston, TX i saw alot of crazy water damage to cars after hurricane Harvey. One truck that came in drove thru water then a month later wouldn't start. When it came to my shop the first thing i noticed was the fan had fallen out with the drive belt. Fixed it and it still wouldn't start. After doing some more digging I found it had also jumped a few teeth on the timing belt. I replaced the timing belt and retimed it, it ran after that. The guy was lucky don't ask me if its still running, never saw it again after that.
Seen bent rods many times never a broken ring land..however seen many ring land fails in boosted engines.my two cents.25 year ASE tech.
Detonation and hydrolock are both possible, I've seen stuff that shouldn't happen, happen in engines, so who knows really. Saw a PowerStroke blow a glow plug out of a head once, that was something interesting.
had my da integra shut off in the rain once, due to water getting in the intake manifold. Not thinking anything about it, cranked it, started right up without issue. Engine did miss a few times I suspect from sucking through the remaining water. But ive put 10k miles on it since then, and no issues whatsoever. No smoke no blow by, still gets amazing compression. Engine is a honda b18a1 all stock except acl race bearings.
Sorry to hear this . Truly never done !!!
I never experienced it myself in 30 years of driving. I saw one engine that was underwater for a few hours (it had not been running when flooded). My father was a car mechanic en he took the engine out, removed the head and the plugs and let it sit for a few weeks. After inspection all seemed dry and as far as I know, the engine was good again.
You should have sprayed some brake clean in the cylinder in the beginning to verify the integrity of the rings, etc. Haha! Sorry to hear about the problems with the Fairmont. At least you got 4,000 miles out of it before major rebuild.
I almost hydro locked an engine on an 04 Altima 2.5 trying to get it running. The owner needed the water pump and thermostats changed I fired it up oil was water free before hand. Tried bleeding the system and realized it had a serious air issue in the cooling system. Pulled the dipstick and sure enough had water mixing. Pulled plugs, soaked in coolant and cylinder 4 was the worst. Owner admitted after a serious venting that it over heated once and that was enough to warp the head. Luckily I caught it before serious damage had occurred. Just got the head back today. Only 85 to surface and pressure test. If you are ever in Central Florida take a trip to Central Florida Machine and Speed. They are fair, honest and reliable. They also build high performance engines and keep AFR heads in stock and other brands of parts for all your domestic engine needs. They also don't charge much but will be raising prices soon, but not by much.
Super bummer Eric. I've been here and feel for you. Could have been much worse!
OOCH, things happen and at least it's just a piston. Great video Eric and keep them coming.
There are still 7 left that run fine though ;)
When you hear that hollow thud, don't try to hit the starter a second time.
Ouch! :-(, So the new rule is: If you suspect a flooded engine remove the sparkplugs always before turning over the engine?
Yes, if its suspected, do that. But how will you know? In this case, the fuel pump caused an unnoticeable leak into the engine.
If you do suspect anything, just pull the plugs and turn the engine over. This will push the liquid out of the now open cylinders. For the maybe hour of work on some cars, its much safer than taking a chance and now needing an engine rebuild.
Yes, if you suspect it. The real take away is make sure the fuel psi regulator has the correct spring in it before you pressurize it.
This is a special situation, not all cars will be this effected by trying to start a flooded engine. Erics car has hot cams and low clearances inside the engine because it is built. A stock engine has better chance of survival in this situation because reasons, but also probably wont flood itself.
Old dirt bikes do it allot you go kick it over and it kicks back ... lol
Cr 500 would almost break your leg if you didn't have it in the right spot before you kicked it over.
So to prevent hydrolock in an engine, if somehow an excessive amount of moisture is introduced into the engine, do you just take it apart and clean everything out or do you just replace everything?
i have not heard of or experienced this. but it's good to know now. thanks eric.
you learn something new everyday. thanks eric
That’s the most fucked up news Ever, what a shame, I’ve watched every video you made with Kevin, I hope you get it back on the road, I wish you the best of luck.
I have seen holes punched in pistons when coolant is sucked into the intake manifold on a 72 Ford Pinto 2.0 Liter engine. There is a water line that goes between the number 2 and 3 ports with about a 1- 2 mm gasket between the water line and intake ports. The Gasket failed while the engine was running and coolant was sucked into the intake and on the compression stroke, bam a nice hole roughly the size of the 50 cent piece in the top of the piston, plus a bent connecting rod. The owner decided to scrape rather than repair. (It had other issues, worn suspension, slipping transmission and bad bearing in the differential. Only 68,000 miles and the car was totally shot.
Hydrostatic lock can also come from too much oil in the cylinder. My Porsche 996 Air Oil Separator went out, so it was letting a LOT of oil into the cylinders. I was scared shitless that it would hydrolock before I was able to drive it to the shop for replacement of the AOS.
Wow! You really dodged a bullet. I just had the heads off of a 2002 Ford 5.4. Because it had low compression (among other issues) on #4, I figured he had the usual Ford valve-train issue (stuck open valve). It wasn't. Once I had the head off, I couldn't believe the amount of scoring inside that cylinder. Long story short, he had been 4-wheeling through some Pennsylvania creeks. When he got in over the air intake, it quit with a thud. His buddies got it running again (I suppose they took the plugs out of it in the woods) and he never thought about it again...until he brought it to me with a check engine light...the O2 sensors were covered with globs of crud. When I got the piston out of the #4 hole I found the top ring had broken into several pieces, several of which were the size of fine gravel. These sort of "rolled" around in the ring groove, exposing a new "cutting edge" to the cylinder wall until there were grooves you could easily catch with your finger-nails all the way around the cylinder. You were really lucky your ring was still in large pieces.
Ive seen fun stuff like that a few times. Melted pistons in the Ford diesels are always good for a laugh.
I was on the fence but I'm going to go ahead and install that snorkel now.
Not to belabor the point but... Eric, if you were to put a snorkel on your dad's truck that would be a GREAT video.
here's a novel idea, stay out of liquids? also hot things love being quenched with cold and electronics just love being wet..........
Yeah but my Honda Civic only has 3 inches of freeboard. A snorkel would allow me to take the shortcut to the bingo parlor.
ETCG1: Hi Pro-Logic I very much liked how you explained hydrostatic lock and it's dangers also at time mark 4:52/8:45 - :52/8:45 The connecting rod when straight (not bent) will get the job done nicely how ever
*(see note at end of comment) [when the connecting rod is bent and how much it is bent] will continue to bend more and more until failure. so. : *Note , if the connecting rod is slightly bent it will last a little longer than a connecting rod the is severely bent plus when the metal is bent it tends to lose some of it's structural integrity else when the connecting rod is straight it will only experience compression forces only in a straight line (connecting rod not bent) .
My old timer mechanics favorite saying was "We'll fix it even if takes all the money you got" and "I'd rather you just owe me the money than have ya cheat me out of it"
I sold a expedition with a 4.6 in it. Had 370k+ miles on it but ran like an absolute top. Transmission started to fail but I continued to drive it. Injectors stuck wide open and it would smoke very bad out the exhaust and have a miss. Would come and go. Eventually I went to crank it up and just so happen an injector was stuck open... Same thing as you. Engine wouldnt turn over any more. Got the gas out the cylinder through the spark plug. and it fired up and run but had a loud tick... I knew at that point it had some damage. I sold it to a friend. He drove it until the trans failed completely. He wanted it for parts and was only interested in the brake calipers and heater core. He was aware that both the trans and engine were bad or going bad. He then resold it to a friend of his's parents. They put a transmission in it and are still driving it today. Engine still ticks all the same. They did replace the injectors and rail though. It runs fine aswell and so far doesnt appear to have any negative impacts thats affecting the engines ability to run
Someone hydrolocked their car. He went to start it, the starter turned until it hit compression, and stalled out the starter! He then proceeded to bump start it down a steep downhill, this is a manual transmission car, in second gear. He blew the motor instantly and the block looked like he just ran a 500 shot of nitrous through it, there were pieces everywhere, all because of a leaky head gasket, which leaked coolant into the cylinder, causing a hydrolocked situation.
Man, wish I'd have known you were in Carlisle. Would've been cool to meet you and Oliver. I live right on the edge of the fairgrounds, so maybe I'll catch you next time!
Yep, flood happened about 6-7 years ago here in Melb, went through the water, and boom, sent two pistons through the bottom of the block, and as they went through took parts of the crank with them.
The mechanic was very impressed lol, however V6 Camry engines are not cheap, so I kinda wasn't.
Also, fun fact, liquids are indeed compressible, however, they are many orders of magnitude smaller than gases, I found this out when not taking the amount of compression of kerosine for a rocket engine I was building, and inevitably put more fuel into the chamber than I had designed. Even small amounts matter, any machinist knows a thou can make all the difference. In engines tho, it's a killer.
what is it with folks and trying to drive through water :)))
I mean, my whole intake system is 4+ feet in the air and it would take over 3' of water to get me wet inside. and i still wont go through water deeper than 1/2 foot.
then again I know it effects brakes, ball-joints, wheel bearings, tie-rods, cv's u-joints, rear end, alternator, belt/pulleys, etc etc etc......
not to mention cold water on outside of engine is a huge thermal shock and can crack the block/heads etc. ohwell
I have a Fiero with a sbc in it. It has been sitting in my garage because of bent rods, from a hydra lock. This was due to heavy rains from a hurricane that went into my carb from a air scoop on rear deck lid.
This actually happened twice. First time it did not start, just locked, so I pulled plugs spun the engine, changed the oil, and all was good.
Second time it cranked and started, which was the straw that did you know what.
Sold a used short block LT1 to a guy that had the same problem occur, heavy rain got into the hood scope and boom.
I really gotta watch a Eric vid on one of my birthdays
Glad to see the pictures and video a little better than on twitter. Silly phone is too small to see the details. I think the pitting on the ring is interesting and a good catch. Those pesky details.
My machinist caught that. He's awesome.
My co worker loved driving through puddles with his 4.7 Dodge Ram, until he hydrolocked it. He took it to Mexico to get it fixed for dirt cheap compared to US prices. He even paid the mechanics extra so that his truck was top priority (money talks there). He drove it back, and it was running fine until it started running rich, black smoke rich. It was a bad O2 sensor. He replaced that, and removed the air box that sucked water from the fender. He installed a dual head "cold" air intake that sits on top the engine.
Thank you very much for this valuable information. I never knew about this.
This is why I've been subscribed to your channel for a few years.
About 6 years ago I drove my old first car (1989 Honda Accord) into a small body of water. Someone had a random big ass hole in their front yard. I was unaware of this and it had a bunch of rain water in it, plus it was night time. I was sure it was screwed. Water was up to the top of the front passenger side wheel for over an hour and also soaked the interior of the car which took weeks to dry out. One thing I might've done right was shut it off pretty quick. Although, after we pulled her out it turned over and I drove home the next morning. Apparently this messed up the float in carb somehow and caused fuel flooding which was later fixed with a minor rebuild.. more like shock damage idk. Still cranks and runs to this day, getting 28 mpg with its rough idling carburetor. I just repainted her and take it out occasionally as my awkward classic. Perhaps eventually it will lock up, I don't know but so far so good Great car tbh! lol
ouch, that sucks! at least you caught it fairly early and didn't mop the block and many parts. for sure check the con rods. valves should be fine since it wasn't hot/running and quenched with cold liquid. while it's apart give them a all check.
piston ring lands too tight could be an issue(ring side clearance) and you'd likely not see markings on the ring ends, it would be on the sides if anything, but the piston would likely be chewed and ring stuck with aluminum smearing everywhere and unless there was a poorly machined piston, it's "not" the issue.
since we know it locked solid and only one piston broke, it seems very logical it was from the big gulp of liquid while cranking.