Ellivere is strictly better Winota
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Hi everyone, in this video, we are going to be discussing why Ellivere of the Wild Court is better than Winota in cEDH. We are going to look at the strategy and key cards.
Moxfield decklist is here!
www.moxfield.c...
Don't forget to support me on Patreon!
/ rebellmtg
Great content as always
Thank you!
I kinda feel like the issue is needing a bit of both enchantment and creatures to get things going, whereas Winota just feeds into herself, more and more triggers stack on each other and you get so many effects for free
That's the feature not the bug. Instead of playing do nothing creatures like Ornithopter or Goblins that make goblins for you to hope to resolve your 4 drop that gets removed, you're just playing enchantments you're ALREADY mulliganing for in Winota or other staxx lists, and your creature quality should generally be higher because you turn them to threats.
If only there was an entire group of creatures that were both enchantments AND creatures!
@@theinvisiblegentleman1142AND stax pieces
Thanks for using the phrase "feature not the bug"
The Spirit of this Rhetoric is confusing like a Labyrinth.
I generally do not like watching EDH content, let alone EDH deck techs, but the way you talk about Magic and your deck construction really shows the amount of time and study you've put into the game. That you impress all of that in such concise and entertainingly edited videos is another feat entirely. Great content as always.
I cannot stress enough that your strategies (and some other channels) are making me try cEDH. Excellent content as always!
I love your deep dives into commanders. How they win, what makes them weak, whats the overall strategie and niche cards the deck can play. Great video as always
Thank you!!!
I feel like the card is good but doesnt snowball like Winota can. That said I think where it shines is there's a LOT more enchantment support than support for what Winota does. And Winota is really, inexorably dependent on that attack trigger, and everybody knows it. At least its Sun Titan text, you gotta really ftet targeted not to get some value out of your commander.
This also highlights on a soft note on why stax is good in midrange decks, you just buy enough time where the win con can be activated. And so the kind of stax you choose does indeed matter in a midrange deck depending on the win con or engines involved.
Hell. Yes. Cant wait to see this at the table. Great video, Rebell! Very informative and entertaining 💯
My only question looking at the list is why the mana rock (like talisman, signet) if you can play mana dorks that could technically be "Roled" later when you dont need as much mana ?
I really love those theories videos and I really like this deck idea
Summoning sickness...
Please make more in depth cedh content like this it really is your best type of videos 🔥
If you make a Top 16 with this deck I'll give you $50 😎
I WAS GONNA OFFER YOU THE SAME DEAL LOL
I will give $100! 🎉 to Ian or Rebell
@@AndrewWoodford 👀👀👀
@@ComedIanMTG I Love Enchantments, what can I say?
Is this an open offer?
I was planning to just scrap the deck to upgrade my Uril deck, but now I think I am actually gonna build it, this looks FUN
Ellivere is nuts
I have a casual monowhite Abdel Adrian list that runs Nevermore since I can reset it by blinking my commander :). It's hell of a card, since most if the times people will play cards you're familiar with and you can predict stuff that could really hurt you with it. Torment of Hailfire, Craterhoof Behemoth, Cyclonic Rift...
I like the in depth explanation of how the whole list works together.
Thank you! I covered most of the important parts, the rest of the decklist should be pretty self explanatory
This deck is interesting. As a long time Enchantress player, I think this is what some Sythis lists are trying to be. Sythis is best as a "storm list" but I digress. I can tell you that there's no way this is better than Winota and will not perform very well. But it's a cool take anyway. I think decks like these are completely dead. If Adeline and Winota can't cut it, this never will.
Thanks for the deep dives on this deck! I love how you put little spark notes on each card. My question is… in a game that doesn’t have black, what could be a viable replacement for Compost?
Literally any other enchantment that impacts your board in some way. Play rule of law, rest in peace, there’s tons of stuff
Viridian Revel?
Love the clean presentation of your deck tech! I have to admit, I am a bit confused by some of the cards in the deck, and how they wok directly against your deck. Eidolon of Rhetoric and Deafening Silence restricts pumping out spells. Spirit of the Labyrinth seems especially odd since card draw is part of your Commander, as well as Setessan Champion and Femeref Enchantress ,,, four Enchantment/Artifact removals but no Aura Shards ... Would love any insights on the thoughts there :)
Skrelv's hive was doing work in my last games with Ellivere. Definitely a good card for the deck as it usually ensures there is a creature to attach a virtuous role token to. Also druid's repository was netting me mana as soon as I would cast it.
Wow this was a very clear and quick explanation of a deck. Nice!
Excited to hopefully have another Selesneya commander to brew around that feels both flavorful, interesting, and powerful to build around. Slam dunk card design for higher power levels imo.
I've only been playing since eliviere came out. She's my girl. Me with all my little critters irl basically.. anyway.. I use her in commander with ondu spirit dancer, vorinclex the hunger, and if u have calix and mondrak glory dom....😂😂😂😂😂 Good. Bye. Ya know? But yes eliviere is such a badass.
Looks fun as hell!
I will not stand for this Winota Slander!
There slander offends all that walk the path
This reminds me a lot of the Tymna/Kamahl stax deck, but both partners combined
yah shes like tymna kamahl but good
I really enjoyed Winota and I think this is a neat idea so I picked up Ellivere and will be playing around with this as an enchantress style deck. Seems like it will be fun if nothing else!
Ellivere recently hit 17th place (out of 138) in Mox Masters September 2023! Which is amazing for such a recent commander - Winota's not even in the on the list at all, for comparison. Looks like you were absolutely correct about her cEDH potential ^^
I wanna hear Rebell's hot take on the recent list though, since that list run on mana dorks :/
@@hebikageloveschii I'm really curious to see how her list changes over time - this early into her competitive history, I'm certain people will be experimenting with different builds and lines as the metagame develops.
Well im play Winota and Sythis and i fell this commander is like combination of both in one part have the aggro lines and the other hand you have power draw
Sounds like you found the perfect commander!
I feel like Hylda of The Icy Crown has similar possibilities like this. My main issue comes from Hylda having clear combo potential, but also having enough 4/4 generation to beat the table down, so I'm unsure which direction to take the deck. Currently, it's both since Crashing Drawbridge is the only way I can seem to reliably give my 4/4's haste and how Hylda combos out with several synergistic lines.
This looks like such a fun deck, love the idea of competitive tokens! Enchantment tokens at that 🙌🙌
Oh dude.. It is!!!😊
Dude, this deck is sick for dockside and grouphug. You should throw in heartbeat of spring since we'll be giving our opponents a lot of mana if dockside resolves and it's an enchantment. (Don't name cyc rift name dockside in any pod with red or run faith healer or even Auratog to sac the enchantments at instant speed.)
She’s definitely going in my Mazzy auras matter deck
This is sweet, I think I'm gonna take a crack at this list.
Wouldnt say one is better than the other just that there both amazing combat strategies. I would say winota is faster but more fragile whereas ellivere is a little slower, but more resilient. All and all though amazing video loved the informative breakdown.
Long time winota player here with a question: Doesn't ellivere have the same problem as winota? (Ie she is "the deck" so remove her enough, and the deck becomes a nonissue) I'm wondering what green brings to the table that would increase survivability.
When Winota fails, your hand is awful. It's staxx (good), payoffs to flip (bad when you're casting them instead of flipping for free), and creatures to trigger Winota to cheat on mana and tempo (bad)
When Ellivere fails, your hand on average should be much better because all Ellivere wants you to do is play creatures (which are good) and enchantment staxx (also good)
Took a look at the deck. It looks really interesting. Is there a way to run reconnaissance or maze of ith(might not be it) I say this because myrel doesn't need to connect to make bodies and I already use those for her deck. And since we need enchantments....Porque no los dos?
You're wincon and card advantage engine are in the command zone. Ive already built it and played it. Its really good
Ellivere is also such a satisfying high-power commander. Beat face. Win. Dare your opponents to complain.
I wanna try this one it looks good. Looks promising.
What say you of Clever Concealment? Making plenty of tokens and playing small creatures almost ensures it will be free when a Rift comes down, and because it phases, even your token permanents are safe.
I mean, I think strictly better Winota is just anything but Winota at this point. Winota isn't what she used to be.
And like, strictly better Winota, maybe... but isn't this just strictly worse, Tymna and something green?
Also, I think an underrated Stax Commander is Commander Greyfax.
Eh, doesn't feel much better than Winota at all. Winota cheats so much mana cost with her ability and gets amazing selection by being able to dig 6 cards deep. Creatures that come in also get pseudo haste and indestructibility and Winota doesn't need to attack herself for the ability to proc. This is still paying full mana value for stax pieces with less card selection and no haste for the large creatures you're creating. Ellivere also needs to attack which isn't bad with auras but is still less safe than being able to sit out. Feels way too slow
Enchantment Stax in cEDH? Lovely, I might just transition my Karametra deck into this.
Since this spicy idea runs green, it could always include an Ashaya line, so that it can potentially Chord of Calling an Ashaya in response to a C-Rift. Or is this too little potential for a combo that might be stopped by the deck's own stax pieces ?
i feel like you could/should probably still jam the other good enchantress effects (sythis, argothian, presence) instead of most of the dork generators but idk
Great video analysis and deck as usual.
However I have a serious question which I don't see anyone discussing.
If you need 2 mana ramp why not play three visits and nature's lore. There bring the mana in untapped as well. If you are going to play artifact hate doesn't make sense to reduce the artifacts you might hit especially the 2 costed ones? Those spells have as many hits as most of the fetches do.
Is it because of Avan mindsensor and opposition agent? I am probably missing something obvious, but I can't see it for the life of me.
Also those spells contribute to deck thining and remove a land you might draw late game. Aven and Oppo are good reasons not too, but they aren’t a reason not to run fetchlands so I don’t buy it.
@@zbronstein3901 fetches are free though. I feel that not feeding dockside is a big upside. I get don't playing those 2 in a high color deck especially 4 color and 5 color ones but I don't see why you shouldn't be playing them in 2 color green decks.
@@hellNo116 I agree. Isn’t this Rebell’s point in the video about running things like exploration instead of stones? Esp in two color green.
@@zbronstein3901 i think they are in addition to. however given the mana base they put together maybe they feared of failing to find. there are already exactly as many targets for fetches as fetches. maybe those numbers matter and I simply don't know.
Hey, I shared some thoughts on Moxfield about the list. Go give it a read, interested to hear your opinions on the thoughts.
Adding to the cards you lose to - what's your advice against toxic deluge? It tends to dumpster decks of the mono green & selesnya flavor, tho perhaps selesnya has better ways to respond since it includes white - ala Clever Concealment for example?
If you're able to do the Eliverre thing, that should be a pretty painful deluge. But perhaps we can add a Yasharn or another way to prohibit life payment as a cost to beat specifically that and also disrupt random cards.
Play a yasharn in there to shut it off- same this deck Yasharn can really only get wiped with Cyc rift. The other two common ones (Fire Covenant and Toxic Deluge) both are nullified by his unique ability!!
I m building my uril non cedh aura and i have to say that card is sweet in the 99 as well. Every enchantress becomes deadly
femeref enchantress enjoyed very based, one of my favorite cards in a tom bombadil deck
The moment I saw all this support for Auras and enchantments in general I knew it was time to dust off my Kestia deck and promote it to cedh.
Looking at the list, no Ranger-Captain or Esper Sentinel. I think the card quality they provide is high enough to be in. The moment Sentinel becomes Virtuous no one is paying that lol
I see Rebell’s bringing back their hot takes of last year (2 years? 🤔 idk) in the title 😆 lmao
I'm not the one actually dropping Winota for better decks in tournaments tho :o
@@RebellSon oh, I don’t track tournaments; I live the cEDH life by proxy thru You and PlayToWin lol cool video tho 👀
i dont play commander, but i can never tell whether an edh video is trolling or not.
That’s how you know it’s an edh video
I see the light
Yes! Thank you for posting about Ellivere! I’ve been singing praises on all the big channels, and in the Enchantress Discord. 💖🪷💖
While i dont disagree with points you’ve made in this video, a cEdh deck without one of the grixis colours is always a little dicey, at least in my eyes.
This seems like a lot of fun
All that & I don’t even think you mentioned the Draw clause
"strictly better" feels like massive clickbait here. Winota is one of those cards where no matter how bad you build her, her power is so immense that she'll provide.
Elliverse doesn't have the same immediate OOMPH just for existing. Heck, compared to Winota, she needs to attack for getting more value, putting her at risk.
I'm by no means saying Ellivere isn't insanely busted, but I'm saying "strictly better" than Winota is nonsense and I get the feeling you know that and I just got baited into watching and leaving a comment.
Thanks for leaving a comment though :o
While this deck is cool, and may be somewhere on the 7-9 powerlevel - it is nowhere near CEDH and definitely not stronger than Winota. This deck may play a few stax pieces to disrupt artifacts, but has no real way to close the game effeciently and doesn't have enough disruption to prevent someone from winning. Also if someone removes your commander or counters it the deck just seems dead.
Oh this is fun! I'll prob make it a stax deck and...hopefully not get blown out but you knowwww it happens XD
Amazing content
i can't decide if i got clickbaited or if you're just, wrong. winota is not strictly worse ellivere. winota is explosive.
This is cool!
it feels strange to see recommended a card as a cEDH commander that doesn't say "you win the game" in the textbox
what are your thoughts on throwing in allosaurus shepherd ?
or birds of paradise for mana? instead of sunblade sam? or arbor elf to untap enchanted land avacyns pilgrim ex: to cast angels grace if need be, winter orb also doesn't seem like a bad include, Orn's chant, or even esper sentinal, ranger captain of eos is always great, recruiter of the guard, Aura shards seems like an auto include since making tokens, enlightened tutor, worldy tutor even gemstone caverns best land in the format cryptolith rite is an enchantment that is great hunting grounds maybe leyline of abundance doesnt seem like the worse
why is karn in the list ?
fire
Two commanders doing different things.
Is it just me or her name sounds like aloe vera
Sacrilege. I will not accept Winota slander. Interesting deck tech though.
I always thought the power of Winota was completely playing through and synergizing with Rule of Law effects. This commander definitely doesn't do that as well
This commander is the one playing Rule of Law tho.
You don't mind playing only one card a turn because your commander will provide a second piece giving between +1/+1 and +10/+10 to something on your board. And you can also make most other decks at the table feel locked/useless.
To know if it's as good/oppressive as winota is yet to be determined. However it's certainly not as expected right now, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it steal some places.
Dockside = ggz
You play Winota to have a “win condition” during a “stax lock”
I play Winota to have funny little guys attacking and bringing in humans that can step on me from the top of deck.
We are not the same
6 months later: no it wasn’t 😢 they’re both just as irrelevant
Heresy!
I mean, Winota is just cringe in general, so I see this as a win
Damn this is one serious L-take.
Test this then make the claim I highly doubt this is the case