Just another hit piece from certain WB executives who were embarrassed when AT&T forced them to correct their Josstice League mistake, and were embarrassed again when Discovery came in and began slapping them for their never-ending bad decisions. These executives have names: Sarnoff, Emmerich, Berg, Johns, Kilar, Tsujihara, and Hamada. Now, the Snyderverse Justice League characters are returning after almost 5 years of neglect and absence. WBD will not call it Snyderverse (and shouldn't), but that is exactly what it is. The "real" DC fans were all those haters who accused fans of MoS and BvS of not knowing Superman and Batman. Who accused Snyder of not knowing comics, despite his movies being more comic book accurate than the Arrowverse and MCU, which is constantly forgiven for great deviations. Clearly, a "true" DC fan is one who likes CW's Arrowverse and who wanted that and the MCU to be the recipe for the DCEU. Something light, less-serious, less-dramatic, and as "fun" as their cartoons. Clearly, the Arrowverse 2.0 is not what WB wanted for their DCEU, which is why they went with Nolan's Superman idea, who wanted Snyder as director. It fell apart from there as WB began chasing that "billion" and ruining movies in a quest to please those "real" fans. In the meantime, it was the Snyderverse fans who were the only ones who ever told WB what they wanted. But we're toxic? We didn't ruin the DCEU. 6:45 - Context. Marvel explored their legacy characters beginning with 2008, with SONY and FOX handling X-Men and Spider-Man prior to. DC had been exhausting their legacy characters as far back as 1978 on big and small screen. In live-action and in animation. Hits after hits. They did "level one" with Donner, Burton, Nolan, Snyder, Jenkins, Wan, and now Reeves. Exploring legacy DC characters has been done over and over.
The funny part is how the MCU got a reputation for "respecting" the characters "unlike Snyder and the DCEU", and how it's slowly morphed to fans being upset that the MCU's go-to is to make fun of how comic book names sound when spoken, how ridiculous the situations are, undercutting serious matter with quips (see: Thor: Love and Thunder) and not giving the events the gravitas that they deserve. As if the recipe for MCU humor is kind of looking at everything with a raised eyebrow and a smug sneer, trying to reassure the audience that they're smart for thinking "Otto Octavius" and "Doctor Strange" are stupid/fake/made-up names instead of owning up to them. Imagine if everyone in MOS snickered at the names Lois Lane and Clark Kent simply because they're alliterative? That's basically it.
@@ultimamage3 So, you are praising the MCU for "respecting" their characters (while making jokes of them) for the very first time they ever presented them? DC has been doing that for decades on small screen and on big screen. Along comes the DCEU and they try to present some realism and the fans shit their pants. Can't wait for "not my Iron Man" to be a Marvel burden twenty years from now.
Snyder was and is not the problem. Joss Whedon, Geoff Johns, Toby Emmerich, Ann Sarnoff, and Walter Hamada are responsible for Josstice League's creation and the destruction of the OG DCEU.
Snyder added to the problem He made his version of Justice league and He still tried to tell his "ViSiOn" when no one asked for it Edgy superman Terrible Castings Weird Stories wonder woman 1984 rather wasn't Snyder that added to The dumpster fire
Now that they are gone so is Batgirl, The Wonder Twins, Hourman. I'm am thankful they are gone. You forgot Abrams and Coates version of Superman. The Version Jordan ran away from and started Val-Zod. Jordan said "rumor " that Coates and Abrams don't know anything about comics but Michael does!
@@hoodiek6802 your position is when he was hired as a director he should not have directed the movie? Because i think that asking someone to direct a movie is asking for their vision.
Exactly. They are also the ones responsible for the hit pieces. WBD, the current regime, didn't say any of this, otherwise Zazlav wouldn't be bringing back everyone. He wouldn't have fired everyone responsible for destroying Snyder's vision. This is a bullshit hit piece, created by old WB ghosts who refuse to go into the light and move on. We need Tangina from Poltergeist to exercise the demons at WBD so they can move on. What Zazlav is doing is literally right in front of us, yet we still have part of the fandom NOT paying attention and recognizing that these hit pieces are NOT from the current regime. it's the OLD regime.
This is the problem with hitting reset on movies, tv, animation, and even the comics so often. DC hits reset yearly and alienates people on both sides regularly.
i 100% agree with you on the point about focusing properly on legacy characters first, I have been thinking of this for years, like why are you making a batgirl movie or a harley quin movie or a 2nd suicide squad when freaking SUPERMAN only has one movie 9 years old batman doesnt even have a solo film but they have time to make an out of universe batman film and an out of universe joker movie, theyre about to make a blue beetle movie and they dont even have solid plans for green lantern, green arrow a classic justice league character doesnt even exist. I cant even fathom this logic they are running around making films for Z list characters ( not dissing people who like them/their movies) while their most iconic characters sit on a shelf collecting dust, how do you expect me to care about your universe when its this messy, its been 9 years and i dont even know the relationship between any of the main justice league members it still feels like their all strangers, compare that to where marvel was 9 years in, wb is disgraceful i was really hoping they could pick up the torch that marvel dropped with phase 4 but no they're still stumbling over their own feet
Personally bro, I look at what has happened with Snyderverse & Hamadaverse and see nonstop drama between them. It's tiring to see division in nearly every comment section I come across & only 2 DC movies since 2012 have made over a billion. Hamadaverse took a huge piss on Superman while Snyderverse threw Dick Grayson & Jimmy Olsen in the trash so I don't feel some sort of allegiance to either side of the equation. WB executives are constantly flip flopping with 0% consistency on what they really want to do and I'm tired of seeing a broken universe on screen.
@@TheKoolSection Hamadaverse isn't a thing. IDK where that title came from, but I believe Superman was pissed on from MOS and BVS and ZSJL, Not Hamada. Hamada hasnt release a single Superman film under his watch. Even JL wasn't under Hamada.
@@TheKoolSection If you're talking about the Whedon cut of JL, you need to blame Kevin Tsujihara. He was fired in 2018. Hamada was hired in 2018 after Tsujihara overseen JL. Hamada never really had a shot at his Universe yet. He released BOP though (which is an L) WW84, Black Adam, Shazam!, Suicide Squad (james gunn) Joker, The Batman, Aquaman 2 and The Flash. Not a bad lineup
@@JodysCorner I called it Hamadaverse primarily to identity the films that aren't attached to Snyderverse. Non-Snyderverse or whichever term is preferred is all the same to me and isn't being used in a derogatory manner. I see where you're coming from with the treatment of Superman from Snyder, but the character has been left to collect dust ever since. Various directors have shown interest along with Cavill wanting to do more but the studio has done nothing in 9 years. There's no excuse for it, especially when they're still taking risks with movies like The Suicide Squad, Shazam, Black Adam and more. Surely WB realizes Superman is a more marketable name and brand then the others.
@@TheKoolSection The 3xcuse is that Snyder ruined Superman so badly, that they shelved him. BVS flopped, MOS was mid as far as fan reception and both JL movies were mediocre. The simple reason is that if Snyder never ruined Superman, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. The Superman stock dropped significantly after Zack tore Superman down. The company felt Superman was u relatable because of it. Mistake, but that's their reason. I understand it all too well. Snyder fans divided the Fandom. Their toxicity ran rampant for too long to the point where WB regrets ever giving them the SnyderCut
Overall, I liked both aspects of both sides of the coin. They could still course correct by doing both, but the execs pride and ego don’t want to please the fans. I hate to say it but marvel knows how to bare minimum please their fans by giving them what they want (except for mature tones).
Warner Bros is not patient with Snyder. They’re rushing to catch up with MCU that’s it falls flat on their faces. New company takes over now and we will see how the new directions goes! Whatever happens happens!
People trash talking snyder did not like the theater release of jl. Didn't like birds of prey, didn't like suicide squad, didn't like ww84, didn't hashtag release the batwoman movie. but they tell us our stories are too dark so we shouldn't have our stories. Smh. We are edge lords. I refuse to pretend like these morons have a halfway decent point.
The studio has to decide what to do. The old regime was very anti Snyder. They were the problem but they blame him. WBD seems to be going in the opposite direction. Clearing away all the remnants of the Hamadaverse dumpster fire, moving to bring coherence to the DCEU, and bringing Snyder back in some capacity. I want the Ayer cut, Zacks JL story with Darkseid to continue, MOS 2, and Afflecks Deatstroke film. And I want ZSJL as canon. Other directors can flesh out the film universe. Snyder doesn't need to write or approve everything.
Dc fans need to come together for example Dc and wbd discovery is changing the game this fandom is divided so much and me I’m a dc fan I welcome all things new and old of Dceu honestly I just want this community to come together not to mention because their looking for a Dc head for dc films
I am completely with you on this one man both sides have good and bad movies and wb is the one that's at the center and I hate that you can't just like what we like without either side barrading the movie or show that comes out. This is the probably the best dceu video I've ever seen
Most of the time when someone brings up snyderverse films and such they’ll call it trash like “LOL THAT MOVIE WAS SO BAD EVEN ROTTEN TOMATOES SAID IT WAS BAD. IT WAS SO BORING AND SERIOUS.” And then a snyderverse fan would try to defend it. And then the snyderverse fan gets called toxic for trying to defend it most of the time.
The Snyder Verse as it stands is truly just the holy trinity of Man Of Steel, BvsS Ultimate cut and Zack Snyder's JL. We will have those 9 hours forever. But what WB wants to do now is release JL2 in 2024, so they are inserting the BIG3 in these coming movies!
Everyone needs to respect everyone opinion me honestly I’m divided with this but at same time on Twitter I try to bring everyone together I stand on both sides but I bring it together no arguments no nothing there a reason why we are called Dc fandom also for example when they used to do Dc fandom virtual thing it brought everyone together it got us excited
I say wait and see the 10 year plan In the meantime there are 4 upcoming DC movies. Black Adam. Shazam 2. Flash. Aquaman 2 (and maybe blue beetle). Watch what you want and skip what you want. No need to attack or feed into anything. Batfleck is my favorite and I really like the Batman. You can decide what you want to do. And I fully understand and support those who do not want to support the old regime
How about a video on George Miller's cancelled justice league mortal movie and how DC's cinematic universe could have been if that movie was the start.
I’m the biggest Star Wars, DC and Marvel fan and I hate all three of the fandoms because it makes it hard for me as fan to enjoy what I like. I sometimes wonder if any of this stuff gets worse it might come to the point where the government may have to step in and make it illegal for these IPS to become movies anymore.
They should be regretting listening to the wrong fans, at the start - the ones that have done nothing, but bitch and moan for the last nine years that the character iteration in the now dubbed Snyderverse, was not to their personal preference. Jim Lee's art on ZS (and CO)'s JL storyboards is dated 2015 (before BVS), so there was a plan. What did WB think was going to happen? The Knightmare timeline was teased in BVS; it doesn't matter what they do, fans and audiences - current and new are going to want to see that playout. There is the Burtonverse, and a Nolanverse, the Snyderverse would have eventually been known as it is now, if ZS was allowed to conclude the five-part story. All WB has done is inadvertently created it early by relasing Josstice Leage, and then stalling the story. It's been five years since JL 2017, and they haven't done anything to progress their Legion of Doom tease. I don't think ZS (and CO) rushed the story, I think the fans who couldn't get on board rushed their expectations. Most live action DC films (before Nolan and Snyder) have little to no characters arcs in them, and when we finally get that, certain DC fans, who appear to be the loudest about being, 'the real DC fans' lose their shit, and seem to just want the same old boring Superman, where he is perfect, and his actions never questioned. I loved what Snyder (and CO) did with the character, and could see the character progression we were getting. Ultimately, these now fired, or on their way out WB executives did it to themselves. Not in 2021 though with the release of the Snyder Cut, but in 2017 when they pushed ZS out after the death of his daughter. WB created the confusion by pushing out random DCEU films that don't appear to be connected at all, using the same actors that were part of the original five-part story, or original 10 branch off films - they split the DCEU fandom, not Snyder. If ZSJL was released originally, which would have been obviously trimmed down (probably with a shorter director's cut), the DCEU wouldn't be the mess it is in today. The five-part story would have been done by now as well, with the DCEU probably moving on to tell the next story.
I accepted mcu me bro i use to be a hater but shang chi won me over the fix the mandarin and that was my biggest problem with iron man 3 the first movie after the avengers 2012 but since they fix it arcling was a good villian he was smarter the tony wit his mandarin plan and i feel tony should face a villian who is as smart as him.
Translation: we’re butt hurt because were jealous that fans liked this version better and didn’t like all the micro managements we made in the other version and now everyone knows we are the reasons these movies fail.
It’s not as clear as one side vs the other you have a lot of people in middle who just want them to start over you have people that want them to keep the cast but go in a different direction story wise you have people that don’t care so long as they get movies and you have people that want more jokers and the Batman type stuff
I have very seldom heard much from the anti-sneiderverse people. I always assumed they were a very small minority of the fandom, aside from the Warner Brothers executives that is.
Really appreciate your commentary and post, man. I grew up on DC characters so it is a little disheartening to see the back and forth. I hope after the dust settles there will be some congruent representation of these heroes. Personally for me, I thought the Cavill-Affleck-Gadot castings were spot on. I still want to see Henry Cavill come back as Superman and I don't mind Affleck continuing as Batman, he's been physically the closest to comic book accurate. That said, I thought Pattinson did a decent job in his outing. I can't get behind the Dick Grayson storyline that ZS wanted to tell though. It's too rich a story to wrongheadedly, IMO, cut off prematurely. Nightwing's about the brightest light burning in the DC comicverse and he deserves a big screen outing. We'll see what happens though--as a true DC fan, whatever the iteration and if I'm able, I'll be there for it. That black suited Superman is fire.
@@charan187 I believe ZS had said in an interview that the dead Robin seen in JL was intended to be Dick not Jason and that he had intended to bring Carrie Kelley on board at some point as Ben Affleck's new Robin.
@@frankiew1309 A Carrie Kelley Robin! I think that would have been cool, she does get the least love out of all the Robin’s. I always thought the dead Robin was a very direct nod to Death in the Family, especially after watching ZSJL.
Tbh Snyder saying Dick being the dead robin means nothing. It's not directly shown or stated in any film. It's strange to see his death be defended the way it has while people openly accepted Snyder's other changes like the General being Martian Manhunter and the dirt rising from Superman's coffin being pointless. Joker wasn't originally going to be in his Snyder cut either but people openly accepted all the additional changes. It's almost as if people don't actually like the Red Hood storyline despite many saying it's their favorite animated Batman film. I'll never be a fan of Snyder shrinking the batfamily without a logical reason.
Cool Section True DC Fans To My understanding It usually means Comic Fans And only Comics Fans The Rest are referred to With the term Normies I believe
The thing that i hate about this bro is WB bashing the fans in general , we pay for they crap movies and they always insult us ... like they don't want our money and when they don't make it they cry... WTF those suits have serious issues
There’s no division….. Sarnoff, Kilar, Emmerich, Hamada and all those lawyers that went after Fischer are ALL gone. The path is clear. All the characters that Snyder created all have movies coming out, or play a big part in these films…in the future (Let’s hope the rumors about Cavill are true), so the Snydervsrse is still there and the DCEU has at least, a start in the right direction…
I’m all in for the black Adam justice society verse how bout we all stop the war and look over to the other side releasing stuff like she hulk black Adam and justice society will be huge flash will reset justice league and in Aquaman we will see Aflec going back around recruiting justice league members now to meet Snyder fans half way let’s get a injustice 3 parts series with a knightmare type future
I expect (a little bit) that there will be a Snyder exec produced series. WBD will allow for a continuation without too much darkness (I loved it) - until the shit hits the fan in say 5 or 6 years time and JL 2 and 3 kicks fing ass. That would only work with the dark (BvS/ZSJL) then the light (SHAZAM/Aquaman/BB etc) then the path of ZSJL2 (decay) to ZSJL3. I hope to F something like this is on the cards soon because I can't do Marvel anymore. It bores me. 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 movies to re-energize the DC platform and then a reckoning.
Simply I don't want dc to become disney/marvel and I want dc movies to have the gravity and maturity dc animated movies possess. Marvel movies are one time entertainment... and I don't want dc to become one time watch.
You should look at the big picture. It good that we have both the Zack Snyder and Josh Wheatons versions of Justice League to compare. Zacks movies has a unique vision. Josh used to be capable of comming up with original content (See Firefly), but aparently no more. Zacks version feels that it's made with a unigue vision. Joshs version, on the other hand, fells like a MCU wannabe. My opinion is that I prefer the Snyderverse, for the simple reason that it is unique and has it's own feel! If I want a film that feels like an MCU film, I go watch an MCU film. I like a lot of those too. So the answer, for the future of the DCEU is simple. Do you want it to be something that is uniquely DCEU, or do you want it to be a pale (woke) MCU copycat?
Joss is still frustrated by his treatment and people's reception to Age of Ultron, and his own personal obsession with 9/11 and the Bush administration. JL was basically Age of Ultron 2.0, except he was even more of a sociopath coasting by on how "feminist" and "woke" he is because he wrote a woman throwing a punch one time in the 90s, never mind his nerd obsession with rape and humiliating WW with panty and ass shots instead of showing her as a warrior goddess. The MCU operates on corporate wokism and mass fandom gaslighting. They wanted everyone to make a big deal about Captain Marvel being their first female-led film and to ignore that Black Widow had been part of the Avengers for almost a decade with no solo film by that point. Same with Black Panther being the first black hero after about 19 movies. Meanwhile Zack casually cast Gal Gadot, who is Israeli, as Wonder Woman and she got her own solo film in "Phase One" of the DCEU. He got writing credit for that first movie and it's unbelievably better than the sequel in which WW sexually violates a complete stranger. Jason Momoa is of Polynesian ethnicity and the main selling point is that his Aquaman is a badass and not a joke, and his movie broke a billion even after Josstice League's flop. Cyborg is noticeably a black guy (should've gotten his own solo film by now), and Joss, Johns, and etc. did their best to minimize his role in JL. Zack Snyder was pitching a Ryan Choi Atom movie set in China, and WB said no. His Green Lantern was going to be John Stewart, and WB said no. MCU successfully tricked people into imagining their universe was better than Zack's both storywise and "politically" (in terms of diverse heroes) while taking three phases to finally be "diverse" like they boast, and the Hamadaverse and the "Real DC fans" also kept acting as if Zack Snyder was an actually terrible human being and ascribing political bogeyman titles on him like "fascist" and "right-wing". The way they and his critics treated him had a tinge of being personally hateful on a visceral level. It should say a lot that China actually enjoyed Zack Snyder's Justice League and the view count across their various streaming services total over 600 million views by now. Disney is too busy trying to convince everyone that China as a country is so fantastically racist that they have to censor Finn from every bit of promotional material in Star Wars, while actual Chinese people are saying Cyborg was the best part of the movie and that Josstice League was a "castrated" version of the film.
They are and should let zack finish his two movies then thats it he would be done. Bam its not that hard people want to see Darkseid Everyone wants to see a Justice league vs Darkseid whether its snyder fans or not I guarantee everyone wants to see the Darkseid vs Justice league no other bad guy will do. period Unless its like trigon or something like that. Gotta be a big bad.
Ok, I'll tell you what a real DC fan stands for. It stands for a person who supports DC contents and not a specific director, especially who doesn't honor source materials.
Fandom in itself is toxic. I'm only looking for good movies. Who cares who's in charge. Anyone that says that the Snyder cut shouldn't have been put out was an old WB regime person that hates Synder because he refused to kowtow to the heads. Just look forward for good movies. That's it.
To be fair, the fandom divide started with the release of Man of Steel and widened with BvS. The changes to Justice League were a studio decision based on the lackluster performance of the first two films. Whether it was right or wrong is moot, it was the studio's decision to make. You make a great point about respecting the lore. The MCU does a great job of trying to respect the source material and their films are the closest thing to a live action comic book. The same cannot be said of WB or Zack Snyder unfortunately. At this point, regardless of which side you choose, you have to admit that the Snyderverse has become toxic.
I had a chance To Sincerely look at Zack Snyder's Take on Batman V Superman and Justice League and the Snyder's cut and I can say it was not that Impressed with it as I took a Second look! The Reason me Zack made it too much around Bruce Batman (, Affleck) too focused on as like that was important to put that because he got the concept from the Dark Knight returns graphic novel by Frank Miller which did not mirror that storyline at all! And Second of all his Casting of Jesse Einsenberg as lex Luther when Lex was never like that! Perfectly portrayed by Michael Rosenbaum on Smallville as Lex Excellent Casting on that part with the Smallville Verse Superman Earth World Sincerely! Horrible casting of Ezra Miller the Dude came straight out of Indy film Obscure now all of sudden his Character version of The Flash Matters?! That is not Barry Allen is Height of 6'1 Muscular Athletic build like in the Comics and I guess they could not upstage Affleck Cavill and Mamoa in Heights too many Tall men?! I don't know Synderverse needs to Cease after This Erza Miller Suit-ration it's hot mess Warner Bros Discovery and what's really Bad they are Banking on this Flash movie Aka Flashpoint Sorry the Cookie Cutter DCEU Version verses the Comics original Source material storyline was way Better and more character depth and Sincerity of Barry's story having to go back in time to save his Mother?! And that there banking on this Flash point movie because of it's supporting star Power Keaton and others! Anyways the Synderverse needs to go!
Only two DC films since 2012 made a billion and 99% comment sections everywhere consist of Snyderverse & Hamadaverse fans mocking & bickering against each other but you say there's no division? Okay. 👍
This whole thing is a lie, there is no divided fan base. there are fans who just want to see these characters treated with respect and there are people who just want to use these characters as dust jackets to dress up whatever personal agenda they are cramming into them. If wb would focus on creating the best stories possible fans would flock to great movies.
If you want to act like there's 0% division in the fanbase that's on you. I wouldn't speak on it if I didn't see it everyday since 2016. The Trinity hasn't had any development together since then & people are always bickering about what "real" DC fans want. Idk what lies you're talking about.
@@allanbroady2970 If wb just made good movies almost all the bitching would stop. That is the issue, making crap movies. Perhaps you are the problem with your trying to keep a division
A real DC fan should just want good DC content. That's all I want. It's gotten to the point where I don't even look forward to anything that DC puts out because there's a 90% chance that it's going to be soooooo sorry. And as far as the Snyderverse goes. That cut may have been better than the theatrical release, but it was still bad. Bad because it wasn't accurate. The Synderverse isn't good. It was just better than what we got before. Man of Steel wasn't good. It was just better than previous efforts because we got to see Superman fight. Still, he would've never killed Zod. BVS is the absolute worst movie I've ever seen in my life. And that's a lot of movies because I'm 62 years old. Both cuts of the Justice League stunk. But Synder's was better. But crap is crap no matter which one smells worst. And please scrap this Flash movie! Not because of Miller's troubles. But because it's going to absolutely sucks because they'll make the same mistakes as before. They haven't followed the source materials. It's a simple fix people. Follow the source materials and the movies will be great no matter what universe they come from. Well.....casting will have something to do with it as well. But if these fools would just follow the treasure troves of source materials that's 90% of the battle and we'll all be happy.
Just another hit piece from certain WB executives who were embarrassed when AT&T forced them to correct their Josstice League mistake, and were embarrassed again when Discovery came in and began slapping them for their never-ending bad decisions. These executives have names: Sarnoff, Emmerich, Berg, Johns, Kilar, Tsujihara, and Hamada. Now, the Snyderverse Justice League characters are returning after almost 5 years of neglect and absence. WBD will not call it Snyderverse (and shouldn't), but that is exactly what it is.
The "real" DC fans were all those haters who accused fans of MoS and BvS of not knowing Superman and Batman. Who accused Snyder of not knowing comics, despite his movies being more comic book accurate than the Arrowverse and MCU, which is constantly forgiven for great deviations. Clearly, a "true" DC fan is one who likes CW's Arrowverse and who wanted that and the MCU to be the recipe for the DCEU. Something light, less-serious, less-dramatic, and as "fun" as their cartoons. Clearly, the Arrowverse 2.0 is not what WB wanted for their DCEU, which is why they went with Nolan's Superman idea, who wanted Snyder as director. It fell apart from there as WB began chasing that "billion" and ruining movies in a quest to please those "real" fans. In the meantime, it was the Snyderverse fans who were the only ones who ever told WB what they wanted. But we're toxic? We didn't ruin the DCEU.
6:45 - Context. Marvel explored their legacy characters beginning with 2008, with SONY and FOX handling X-Men and Spider-Man prior to. DC had been exhausting their legacy characters as far back as 1978 on big and small screen. In live-action and in animation. Hits after hits. They did "level one" with Donner, Burton, Nolan, Snyder, Jenkins, Wan, and now Reeves. Exploring legacy DC characters has been done over and over.
Hit piece from who?
Sarnoff, Kilar, Emmerich and Hamada are all gone…..It’s pretty clear where Zaskav is headed….
People hated Mos and BVS but those were my favorite movies at the time. I became a DC fan because of the flash Mos and BVS
The funny part is how the MCU got a reputation for "respecting" the characters "unlike Snyder and the DCEU", and how it's slowly morphed to fans being upset that the MCU's go-to is to make fun of how comic book names sound when spoken, how ridiculous the situations are, undercutting serious matter with quips (see: Thor: Love and Thunder) and not giving the events the gravitas that they deserve. As if the recipe for MCU humor is kind of looking at everything with a raised eyebrow and a smug sneer, trying to reassure the audience that they're smart for thinking "Otto Octavius" and "Doctor Strange" are stupid/fake/made-up names instead of owning up to them. Imagine if everyone in MOS snickered at the names Lois Lane and Clark Kent simply because they're alliterative? That's basically it.
@@ultimamage3 So, you are praising the MCU for "respecting" their characters (while making jokes of them) for the very first time they ever presented them? DC has been doing that for decades on small screen and on big screen. Along comes the DCEU and they try to present some realism and the fans shit their pants.
Can't wait for "not my Iron Man" to be a Marvel burden twenty years from now.
Snyder was and is not the problem. Joss Whedon, Geoff Johns, Toby Emmerich, Ann Sarnoff, and Walter Hamada are responsible for Josstice League's creation and the destruction of the OG DCEU.
Personally, I put it all on WB for the mess we have now.
Snyder added to the problem He made his version of Justice league and He still tried to tell his "ViSiOn" when no one asked for it Edgy superman Terrible Castings Weird Stories wonder woman 1984 rather wasn't Snyder that added to The dumpster fire
Now that they are gone so is Batgirl, The Wonder Twins, Hourman. I'm am thankful they are gone. You forgot Abrams and Coates version of Superman. The Version Jordan ran away from and started Val-Zod. Jordan said "rumor " that Coates and Abrams don't know anything about comics but Michael does!
@@hoodiek6802 your position is when he was hired as a director he should not have directed the movie? Because i think that asking someone to direct a movie is asking for their vision.
Exactly. They are also the ones responsible for the hit pieces. WBD, the current regime, didn't say any of this, otherwise Zazlav wouldn't be bringing back everyone. He wouldn't have fired everyone responsible for destroying Snyder's vision. This is a bullshit hit piece, created by old WB ghosts who refuse to go into the light and move on. We need Tangina from Poltergeist to exercise the demons at WBD so they can move on. What Zazlav is doing is literally right in front of us, yet we still have part of the fandom NOT paying attention and recognizing that these hit pieces are NOT from the current regime. it's the OLD regime.
This is the problem with hitting reset on movies, tv, animation, and even the comics so often. DC hits reset yearly and alienates people on both sides regularly.
Yep smh.
i 100% agree with you on the point about focusing properly on legacy characters first, I have been thinking of this for years, like why are you making a batgirl movie or a harley quin movie or a 2nd suicide squad when freaking SUPERMAN only has one movie 9 years old batman doesnt even have a solo film but they have time to make an out of universe batman film and an out of universe joker movie, theyre about to make a blue beetle movie and they dont even have solid plans for green lantern, green arrow a classic justice league character doesnt even exist. I cant even fathom this logic they are running around making films for Z list characters ( not dissing people who like them/their movies) while their most iconic characters sit on a shelf collecting dust, how do you expect me to care about your universe when its this messy, its been 9 years and i dont even know the relationship between any of the main justice league members it still feels like their all strangers, compare that to where marvel was 9 years in, wb is disgraceful i was really hoping they could pick up the torch that marvel dropped with phase 4 but no they're still stumbling over their own feet
They desperately need to do something with the Trinity together for more than 5 minutes. Green lanterns been stuck in limbo for way too long.
The problem is those movies suck the dceu is bad and they weren't making money
A "Real DC fan" is someone who wants what's best for DC REGARDLESS of personal bias.
Personally bro, I look at what has happened with Snyderverse & Hamadaverse and see nonstop drama between them. It's tiring to see division in nearly every comment section I come across & only 2 DC movies since 2012 have made over a billion. Hamadaverse took a huge piss on Superman while Snyderverse threw Dick Grayson & Jimmy Olsen in the trash so I don't feel some sort of allegiance to either side of the equation. WB executives are constantly flip flopping with 0% consistency on what they really want to do and I'm tired of seeing a broken universe on screen.
@@TheKoolSection Hamadaverse isn't a thing. IDK where that title came from, but I believe Superman was pissed on from MOS and BVS and ZSJL, Not Hamada. Hamada hasnt release a single Superman film under his watch. Even JL wasn't under Hamada.
@@TheKoolSection If you're talking about the Whedon cut of JL, you need to blame Kevin Tsujihara. He was fired in 2018. Hamada was hired in 2018 after Tsujihara overseen JL. Hamada never really had a shot at his Universe yet. He released BOP though (which is an L) WW84, Black Adam, Shazam!, Suicide Squad (james gunn) Joker, The Batman, Aquaman 2 and The Flash.
Not a bad lineup
@@JodysCorner I called it Hamadaverse primarily to identity the films that aren't attached to Snyderverse. Non-Snyderverse or whichever term is preferred is all the same to me and isn't being used in a derogatory manner. I see where you're coming from with the treatment of Superman from Snyder, but the character has been left to collect dust ever since. Various directors have shown interest along with Cavill wanting to do more but the studio has done nothing in 9 years. There's no excuse for it, especially when they're still taking risks with movies like The Suicide Squad, Shazam, Black Adam and more. Surely WB realizes Superman is a more marketable name and brand then the others.
@@TheKoolSection The 3xcuse is that Snyder ruined Superman so badly, that they shelved him. BVS flopped, MOS was mid as far as fan reception and both JL movies were mediocre.
The simple reason is that if Snyder never ruined Superman, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. The Superman stock dropped significantly after Zack tore Superman down. The company felt Superman was u relatable because of it.
Mistake, but that's their reason. I understand it all too well. Snyder fans divided the Fandom. Their toxicity ran rampant for too long to the point where WB regrets ever giving them the SnyderCut
Overall, I liked both aspects of both sides of the coin. They could still course correct by doing both, but the execs pride and ego don’t want to please the fans. I hate to say it but marvel knows how to bare minimum please their fans by giving them what they want (except for mature tones).
Warner Bros is not patient with Snyder. They’re rushing to catch up with MCU that’s it falls flat on their faces. New company takes over now and we will see how the new directions goes! Whatever happens happens!
People trash talking snyder did not like the theater release of jl. Didn't like birds of prey, didn't like suicide squad, didn't like ww84, didn't hashtag release the batwoman movie. but they tell us our stories are too dark so we shouldn't have our stories. Smh. We are edge lords. I refuse to pretend like these morons have a halfway decent point.
I think WB's decision to let Snyder have so much control over the DCEU was a mistake and their constant interference made it worse.
The studio has to decide what to do. The old regime was very anti Snyder. They were the problem but they blame him.
WBD seems to be going in the opposite direction. Clearing away all the remnants of the Hamadaverse dumpster fire, moving to bring coherence to the DCEU, and bringing Snyder back in some capacity.
I want the Ayer cut, Zacks JL story with Darkseid to continue, MOS 2, and Afflecks Deatstroke film. And I want ZSJL as canon.
Other directors can flesh out the film universe. Snyder doesn't need to write or approve everything.
You would think that they would regret The Josstice League
Black suit superman statue looks cool.
Thank you
@@TheKoolSection your welcome
Man, just say give answer on one quastion. Do you want to see Knithmare?
And that Superman statue is 🔥
Thank you
Dc fans need to come together for example Dc and wbd discovery is changing the game this fandom is divided so much and me I’m a dc fan I welcome all things new and old of Dceu honestly I just want this community to come together not to mention because their looking for a Dc head for dc films
I am completely with you on this one man both sides have good and bad movies and wb is the one that's at the center and I hate that you can't just like what we like without either side barrading the movie or show that comes out. This is the probably the best dceu video I've ever seen
Most of the time when someone brings up snyderverse films and such they’ll call it trash like “LOL THAT MOVIE WAS SO BAD EVEN ROTTEN TOMATOES SAID IT WAS BAD. IT WAS SO BORING AND SERIOUS.” And then a snyderverse fan would try to defend it. And then the snyderverse fan gets called toxic for trying to defend it most of the time.
Thanks for this video man we do fans we should all hope for the best for our dc it’s kinda our kid in a way and we sharing it
We just want the trinity!
The Snyder Verse as it stands is truly just the holy trinity of Man Of Steel, BvsS Ultimate cut and Zack Snyder's JL. We will have those 9 hours forever. But what WB wants to do now is release JL2 in 2024, so they are inserting the BIG3 in these coming movies!
And the Ayer Cut and Flash :)
Just continue with the cast that the Snyderverse started, work with what happen that’s cannon and go to a new direction from there. Coherence please.
Everyone needs to respect everyone opinion me honestly I’m divided with this but at same time on Twitter I try to bring everyone together I stand on both sides but I bring it together no arguments no nothing there a reason why we are called Dc fandom also for example when they used to do Dc fandom virtual thing it brought everyone together it got us excited
The divided fandom is really disappointing imo. I wish things could've gone a different way but I see it everywhere I look now.
I just finished re-watching 300..I have a reinvigorated appreciation for it!
Let Zack finish his Vision...
The Baseball Cap is Cool.👍
Thank you
I say wait and see the 10 year plan
In the meantime there are 4 upcoming DC movies. Black Adam. Shazam 2. Flash. Aquaman 2 (and maybe blue beetle). Watch what you want and skip what you want. No need to attack or feed into anything.
Batfleck is my favorite and I really like the Batman. You can decide what you want to do. And I fully understand and support those who do not want to support the old regime
How about a video on George Miller's cancelled justice league mortal movie and how DC's cinematic universe could have been if that movie was the start.
I don't know a ton about that film at the moment.
@@TheKoolSection ok
By the way, what are your thoughts on this new Rippaverse?
I'm so done with these hit pieces once or twice a month. The Snyder hate is a surreal phenomenon
I’m the biggest Star Wars, DC and Marvel fan and I hate all three of the fandoms because it makes it hard for me as fan to enjoy what I like. I sometimes wonder if any of this stuff gets worse it might come to the point where the government may have to step in and make it illegal for these IPS to become movies anymore.
I feel you on your points. It's frustrating to see how things are now.
They should be regretting listening to the wrong fans, at the start - the ones that have done nothing, but bitch and moan for the last nine years that the character iteration in the now dubbed Snyderverse, was not to their personal preference. Jim Lee's art on ZS (and CO)'s JL storyboards is dated 2015 (before BVS), so there was a plan. What did WB think was going to happen? The Knightmare timeline was teased in BVS; it doesn't matter what they do, fans and audiences - current and new are going to want to see that playout. There is the Burtonverse, and a Nolanverse, the Snyderverse would have eventually been known as it is now, if ZS was allowed to conclude the five-part story. All WB has done is inadvertently created it early by relasing Josstice Leage, and then stalling the story. It's been five years since JL 2017, and they haven't done anything to progress their Legion of Doom tease. I don't think ZS (and CO) rushed the story, I think the fans who couldn't get on board rushed their expectations. Most live action DC films (before Nolan and Snyder) have little to no characters arcs in them, and when we finally get that, certain DC fans, who appear to be the loudest about being, 'the real DC fans' lose their shit, and seem to just want the same old boring Superman, where he is perfect, and his actions never questioned. I loved what Snyder (and CO) did with the character, and could see the character progression we were getting. Ultimately, these now fired, or on their way out WB executives did it to themselves. Not in 2021 though with the release of the Snyder Cut, but in 2017 when they pushed ZS out after the death of his daughter. WB created the confusion by pushing out random DCEU films that don't appear to be connected at all, using the same actors that were part of the original five-part story, or original 10 branch off films - they split the DCEU fandom, not Snyder. If ZSJL was released originally, which would have been obviously trimmed down (probably with a shorter director's cut), the DCEU wouldn't be the mess it is in today. The five-part story would have been done by now as well, with the DCEU probably moving on to tell the next story.
I almost don't even care anymore... I'll just wait to see what happens.
The whole situation is in shambles
I accepted mcu me bro i use to be a hater but shang chi won me over the fix the mandarin and that was my biggest problem with iron man 3 the first movie after the avengers 2012 but since they fix it arcling was a good villian he was smarter the tony wit his mandarin plan and i feel tony should face a villian who is as smart as him.
Translation: we’re butt hurt because were jealous that fans liked this version better and didn’t like all the micro managements we made in the other version and now everyone knows we are the reasons these movies fail.
It’s not as clear as one side vs the other you have a lot of people in middle who just want them to start over you have people that want them to keep the cast but go in a different direction story wise you have people that don’t care so long as they get movies and you have people that want more jokers and the Batman type stuff
WB... the issue is WB. There was a lot of egos in leadership that caused a lot of this mess.
Nice cap man! Where can i get 1?
Why, because we finally got a decent live-action Justice League movie?
I have very seldom heard much from the anti-sneiderverse people. I always assumed they were a very small minority of the fandom, aside from the Warner Brothers executives that is.
Really appreciate your commentary and post, man. I grew up on DC characters so it is a little disheartening to see the back and forth. I hope after the dust settles there will be some congruent representation of these heroes. Personally for me, I thought the Cavill-Affleck-Gadot castings were spot on. I still want to see Henry Cavill come back as Superman and I don't mind Affleck continuing as Batman, he's been physically the closest to comic book accurate. That said, I thought Pattinson did a decent job in his outing. I can't get behind the Dick Grayson storyline that ZS wanted to tell though. It's too rich a story to wrongheadedly, IMO, cut off prematurely. Nightwing's about the brightest light burning in the DC comicverse and he deserves a big screen outing. We'll see what happens though--as a true DC fan, whatever the iteration and if I'm able, I'll be there for it. That black suited Superman is fire.
Dick Grayson or Jason Todd?
@@charan187 I believe ZS had said in an interview that the dead Robin seen in JL was intended to be Dick not Jason and that he had intended to bring Carrie Kelley on board at some point as Ben Affleck's new Robin.
@@frankiew1309 A Carrie Kelley Robin! I think that would have been cool, she does get the least love out of all the Robin’s. I always thought the dead Robin was a very direct nod to Death in the Family, especially after watching ZSJL.
Tbh Snyder saying Dick being the dead robin means nothing. It's not directly shown or stated in any film. It's strange to see his death be defended the way it has while people openly accepted Snyder's other changes like the General being Martian Manhunter and the dirt rising from Superman's coffin being pointless. Joker wasn't originally going to be in his Snyder cut either but people openly accepted all the additional changes. It's almost as if people don't actually like the Red Hood storyline despite many saying it's their favorite animated Batman film. I'll never be a fan of Snyder shrinking the batfamily without a logical reason.
Cool Section
True DC Fans To My understanding
It usually means
Comic Fans
And only Comics Fans
The Rest are referred to
With the term Normies
I believe
The thing that i hate about this bro is WB bashing the fans in general , we pay for they crap movies and they always insult us ... like they don't want our money and when they don't make it they cry... WTF those suits have serious issues
1:15 FACTS
There’s no division…..
Sarnoff, Kilar, Emmerich, Hamada and all those lawyers that went after Fischer are ALL gone.
The path is clear. All the characters that Snyder created all have movies coming out, or play a big part in these films…in the future (Let’s hope the rumors about Cavill are true), so the Snydervsrse is still there and the DCEU has at least, a start in the right direction…
I can tell you're not really looking around if you say there's no division. Everyone didn't jump onto the same page just because Zazlav showed up.
I’m all in for the black Adam justice society verse how bout we all stop the war and look over to the other side releasing stuff like she hulk black Adam and justice society will be huge flash will reset justice league and in Aquaman we will see Aflec going back around recruiting justice league members now to meet Snyder fans half way let’s get a injustice 3 parts series with a knightmare type future
I expect (a little bit) that there will be a Snyder exec produced series. WBD will allow for a continuation without too much darkness (I loved it) - until the shit hits the fan in say 5 or 6 years time and JL 2 and 3 kicks fing ass. That would only work with the dark (BvS/ZSJL) then the light (SHAZAM/Aquaman/BB etc) then the path of ZSJL2 (decay) to ZSJL3. I hope to F something like this is on the cards soon because I can't do Marvel anymore. It bores me. 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 movies to re-energize the DC platform and then a reckoning.
I take no sides
I like what I like
And don't watch what i don't
Every fandom is just toxic nowadays
It's starting to seem that way, at least for the bigger ones.
Simply I don't want dc to become disney/marvel and I want dc movies to have the gravity and maturity dc animated movies possess.
Marvel movies are one time entertainment... and I don't want dc to become one time watch.
Aquamarine was successful because of the build up by prior movies
You should look at the big picture. It good that we have both the Zack Snyder and Josh Wheatons versions of Justice League to compare. Zacks movies has a unique vision. Josh used to be capable of comming up with original content (See Firefly), but aparently no more. Zacks version feels that it's made with a unigue vision. Joshs version, on the other hand, fells like a MCU wannabe.
My opinion is that I prefer the Snyderverse, for the simple reason that it is unique and has it's own feel! If I want a film that feels like an MCU film, I go watch an MCU film. I like a lot of those too.
So the answer, for the future of the DCEU is simple. Do you want it to be something that is uniquely DCEU, or do you want it to be a pale (woke) MCU copycat?
Joss is still frustrated by his treatment and people's reception to Age of Ultron, and his own personal obsession with 9/11 and the Bush administration. JL was basically Age of Ultron 2.0, except he was even more of a sociopath coasting by on how "feminist" and "woke" he is because he wrote a woman throwing a punch one time in the 90s, never mind his nerd obsession with rape and humiliating WW with panty and ass shots instead of showing her as a warrior goddess.
The MCU operates on corporate wokism and mass fandom gaslighting. They wanted everyone to make a big deal about Captain Marvel being their first female-led film and to ignore that Black Widow had been part of the Avengers for almost a decade with no solo film by that point. Same with Black Panther being the first black hero after about 19 movies.
Meanwhile Zack casually cast Gal Gadot, who is Israeli, as Wonder Woman and she got her own solo film in "Phase One" of the DCEU. He got writing credit for that first movie and it's unbelievably better than the sequel in which WW sexually violates a complete stranger. Jason Momoa is of Polynesian ethnicity and the main selling point is that his Aquaman is a badass and not a joke, and his movie broke a billion even after Josstice League's flop. Cyborg is noticeably a black guy (should've gotten his own solo film by now), and Joss, Johns, and etc. did their best to minimize his role in JL. Zack Snyder was pitching a Ryan Choi Atom movie set in China, and WB said no. His Green Lantern was going to be John Stewart, and WB said no.
MCU successfully tricked people into imagining their universe was better than Zack's both storywise and "politically" (in terms of diverse heroes) while taking three phases to finally be "diverse" like they boast, and the Hamadaverse and the "Real DC fans" also kept acting as if Zack Snyder was an actually terrible human being and ascribing political bogeyman titles on him like "fascist" and "right-wing". The way they and his critics treated him had a tinge of being personally hateful on a visceral level.
It should say a lot that China actually enjoyed Zack Snyder's Justice League and the view count across their various streaming services total over 600 million views by now. Disney is too busy trying to convince everyone that China as a country is so fantastically racist that they have to censor Finn from every bit of promotional material in Star Wars, while actual Chinese people are saying Cyborg was the best part of the movie and that Josstice League was a "castrated" version of the film.
They are and should let zack finish his two movies then thats it he would be done. Bam its not that hard people want to see Darkseid Everyone wants to see a Justice league vs Darkseid whether its snyder fans or not I guarantee everyone wants to see the Darkseid vs Justice league no other bad guy will do. period Unless its like trigon or something like that. Gotta be a big bad.
Ok, I'll tell you what a real DC fan stands for. It stands for a person who supports DC contents and not a specific director, especially who doesn't honor source materials.
Fandom in itself is toxic. I'm only looking for good movies. Who cares who's in charge.
Anyone that says that the Snyder cut shouldn't have been put out was an old WB regime person that hates Synder because he refused to kowtow to the heads.
Just look forward for good movies. That's it.
I am neither a fan of Snyderverse or Hamadaverse. I vote to restart the DCEU and name it DCEU Redux. WB can do better.
Would be nice if we can keep the Snyderverse and merge some of the other good DC movies and shows while ignoring trash like Birds of Prey.
How can you do a 10 yr plan with old ass affleck and cavil
New to your channel
I’m a Marvel guy
Do you have any vids on why you’re a DC guy?
To be fair, the fandom divide started with the release of Man of Steel and widened with BvS. The changes to Justice League were a studio decision based on the lackluster performance of the first two films. Whether it was right or wrong is moot, it was the studio's decision to make.
You make a great point about respecting the lore. The MCU does a great job of trying to respect the source material and their films are the closest thing to a live action comic book. The same cannot be said of WB or Zack Snyder unfortunately. At this point, regardless of which side you choose, you have to admit that the Snyderverse has become toxic.
I had a chance To Sincerely look at Zack Snyder's Take on Batman V Superman and Justice League and the Snyder's cut and I can say it was not that Impressed with it as I took a Second look! The Reason me Zack made it too much around Bruce Batman (, Affleck) too focused on as like that was important to put that because he got the concept from the Dark Knight returns graphic novel by Frank Miller which did not mirror that storyline at all! And Second of all his Casting of Jesse Einsenberg as lex Luther when Lex was never like that! Perfectly portrayed by Michael Rosenbaum on Smallville as Lex Excellent Casting on that part with the Smallville Verse Superman Earth World Sincerely! Horrible casting of Ezra Miller the Dude came straight out of Indy film Obscure now all of sudden his Character version of The Flash Matters?! That is not Barry Allen is Height of 6'1 Muscular Athletic build like in the Comics and I guess they could not upstage Affleck Cavill and Mamoa in Heights too many Tall men?! I don't know Synderverse needs to Cease after This Erza Miller Suit-ration it's hot mess Warner Bros Discovery and what's really Bad they are Banking on this Flash movie Aka Flashpoint Sorry the Cookie Cutter DCEU Version verses the Comics original Source material storyline was way Better and more character depth and Sincerity of Barry's story having to go back in time to save his Mother?! And that there banking on this Flash point movie because of it's supporting star Power Keaton and others! Anyways the Synderverse needs to go!
theres no Division in the fandom Snyderverse isnt perfect, but is far better than the Hamada-crap
Only two DC films since 2012 made a billion and 99% comment sections everywhere consist of Snyderverse & Hamadaverse fans mocking & bickering against each other but you say there's no division? Okay. 👍
This whole thing is a lie, there is no divided fan base. there are fans who just want to see these characters treated with respect and there are people who just want to use these characters as dust jackets to dress up whatever personal agenda they are cramming into them. If wb would focus on creating the best stories possible fans would flock to great movies.
If you want to act like there's 0% division in the fanbase that's on you. I wouldn't speak on it if I didn't see it everyday since 2016. The Trinity hasn't had any development together since then & people are always bickering about what "real" DC fans want. Idk what lies you're talking about.
@@TheKoolSection are you sure that you are commenting on the right comment as nothing you said makes any sense other than I get you are angry
Nah if that was the case their would be no push back on moving from the Snyder verse there stuck as they know
@@allanbroady2970 If wb just made good movies almost all the bitching would stop. That is the issue, making crap movies. Perhaps you are the problem with your trying to keep a division
A real DC fan should just want good DC content. That's all I want. It's gotten to the point where I don't even look forward to anything that DC puts out because there's a 90% chance that it's going to be soooooo sorry. And as far as the Snyderverse goes. That cut may have been better than the theatrical release, but it was still bad. Bad because it wasn't accurate. The Synderverse isn't good. It was just better than what we got before. Man of Steel wasn't good. It was just better than previous efforts because we got to see Superman fight. Still, he would've never killed Zod. BVS is the absolute worst movie I've ever seen in my life. And that's a lot of movies because I'm 62 years old. Both cuts of the Justice League stunk. But Synder's was better. But crap is crap no matter which one smells worst. And please scrap this Flash movie! Not because of Miller's troubles. But because it's going to absolutely sucks because they'll make the same mistakes as before. They haven't followed the source materials. It's a simple fix people. Follow the source materials and the movies will be great no matter what universe they come from. Well.....casting will have something to do with it as well. But if these fools would just follow the treasure troves of source materials that's 90% of the battle and we'll all be happy.
Marvel vs DC still kinda makes sense
Who can be more woke
Obviosly, Marvel.
Get rid of affleck as Batman he was god awful
Pattinson is mid