This is great. Really is, but you left out a couple of really good pieces of info. First, you need to remove the extractor push pin so it's not pushing on the rim of the cartridge. Second, you have to ensure that the shoulder and neck are not rubbing. So test to make sure nothing is touching when testing the case only. Third, you need to ensure the cartridge rim is clipped into the extractor clip before pushing the round into the chamber. The extractor clip could interfere if you don't. After reading some of the comments I think these things needed to be added.
Tcombest, I have been doing quite a bit of loading for semis, lately. I have an AR with a White Oak 18" barrel with a 1:7 twist. It normally doesn't shoot 55 grains all too well, but I was playing around with some 55 Hornady soft points that came with one of my presses years ago. The manual calls for a COL of 2.200. They actually grouped pretty decent. I took it out to 2.230 and it cut my groups in half. One of those things that you have to play around and see what works best. Great video!
That is a good and interesting technique that I have not seen before, but I am going to certainly try it. Good clear explanantion - thank you for sharing.
Saw this video years ago and it is still very relevant. One thing that you did not mention... but it looks like you have removed the ejector and its spring from the bolt face of the BAT action. This is also an important step in not placing any stress on the case/bullet assembly which enables you to feel the bullet engage the rifling. Nice job sir.
this video reminds me of the most accurate rifle i ever shot. it was an old, old, old bolt action single shot .22 ranger chambered in 22Long but i used 22LR and the projectile would partially engage the rifling before firing and it would put every shot through the same hole at 50 yards with open sights and no scope. i heard years later that the shorter the distance the bullet travels before engaging the rifling was better most of the time for accuracy LOL i wish my brothers didn't screw me out of that rifle when my dad passed away. it was being stored at his farm and they claimed it was part of his estate and they took it for themselves. ;(
This method can get you within a couple thousandths. Problem is that his brass is slightly undersized, it has to be to get a bolt to drop without resistance in this test. A properly sized case in a chamber will cause a very light bit of resistence when you close a disassembled bolt. Of course this would cause the bullet seating depth test as he did it to be difficult as the whole method is based on the feel of the bolt drop. Depending on how much he's bumping the shoulder on his brass will determine how accurate the final measurement is. Could be off by a few thousandths.
I really like this method. Brilliant. I will try this on my 700 tonight. I also have a micrometer seating die. Once I set it up this way won't the die and chamber be matched as regards ogive so that other bullet types can be seated without adjustment? I know I'll double check but was just wondering. Thanks again for the video.
@tcombest Thanks for the quick reply! I'm using unfired brass but I'm pretty sure I need to bump the shoulder. I just ordered a Redding body die to do the bumping, so I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again.
I'm trying this method with my firing pin removed and my bolt is loose like yours without a round in the chamber, but when I put a round in, it never gets loose. I even tried it with just the brass with no bullet in it and my bolt never free falls like yours does. Is it because I need to push the necks on my cases back or something? thanks.
Heh Tim, what is the best way to accomplish this task in a semi-auto gun like a SCAR 17? I realize the process is the same but the method must be entirely different due to the removable bolt (ie) your gun in the video.....Thanks
What methods are there for leverguns? I was advised to find the correct AOL for my rifle and being new to reloading just want to make decent shooting ammo . I'm not into high precision shots at 300 yards to 1000... 50 or 100 suits me fine using iron sights. Thanks...
I have custom barrel that is a 1" dia My test round is 2.580 to the ogive and it seems to be hitting the lands. It seems to be touching and not freely closing. i took a measurement with a bullet seating tool, touching at the measurement of 2.531 ogive.My die and micrometer will only allow me to seat the bullet as far down as 2.545.That puts my bullet ogive very close to the case neck, will this be a problem? My cases are correct specs 2.490-2.50 what is your expertise on this subject?
The point of taking the pin out is not of safety (although that obviously applies) it's too have no resistance and he made it sound misleading because you don't have to have a firing pin removal tool to remove your firing pin. All rifles should have instructions on how to do it just get on the manufacturers website or look on RUclips for that matter.
I understand this process is for match grade ammo with precise headspace chambering. BUT,.... I have a 7.62N chambered bolt action rifle. If I load a .308WIN FMJ 145gr bullet. Will it fit? I dont want to discuss chamber pressures because I spoke about CUP vs PSI for hours, only to find the bullets are pretty much the same. I just want to know if .308headspace will fit in a 7.62n Bolt action rifle.I understand the opposite direction you get headspace issues. 7.62N rnd in a .308 rifle.
@tcombest Also using a comparator to measure shoulder length, my fired cases come out to 1.6240 and with my Die bottoming out on the shellholder with unfired brass the most I can bump it back is 1.6210. Am I supposed to FL resize before using the body die to bump the shoulder? thanks!
Love the video, thanks! I have a Savage 116, which has the ejector and extractor as part of the bolt head ass'y. I'm guessing that removing both would be a good thing, yes? For load development, I'm not going to even try jamming. I'll make 6 ea. of bullets 1 thou off the lands, 2 thou, 3 thou, and 5 thou so I'll have enough to shoot two, 3-group shots of each of the 4 lengths. And go from there. Any advice? Again, thank you and great video. BTW, what do you think of the RCBS Precision Mic. tool?
freddiemercurious i have been trying this method and not getting accurate readings when trying to close the bolt. after reading your comment i realize it is because of the ejector pin in the bolt.... i THINK lol
Thanks for this Video...Flecktarn camo looks great...you should leave open the top button like a German soldier has to do. ;-) Greeting from Germany Markus
Have you compared results with your method here with the results using the Hornady gauge using the same bullet? Just curious. By the way, great video. I really enjoyed watching it.
Help, i am reloading Remington 7MM Mag using a 2 die competition set and i have done some measurements on where my bullet touches the lands and found that i am at 2.531" and a good factory round is 2.654" to the ogive. Thus saying i am not able to seat the bullet beyond 2.587" so that i can ladder test the bullet jump off the lands to find the best bullet seating depth for precise accuracy. This is far as my die with the micrometer will allow me (2.587")At this measurement i am really close.
Would leaving the primer out give the same result for those of us that do not have the tool to remove the firing pin?, also, I'm going thru the same scenario with my M1 Garand, how would I acheive this with this gun? Any info would help greatly, Charles
The point of taking the pin out is not of safety (although that obviously applies) it's too have no resistance and he made it sound misleading because you don't have to have a firing pin removal tool to remove your firing pin. All rifles should have instructions on how to do it just get on the manufacturers website or look on RUclips for that matter.
Hunter Sickinger It is not a dumb question. The reason is to find where the rifling (lands) is in a particular barrel in relation to the chamber. This only determines where the rifling is in the particular barrel you are performing this test on, obviously. The reason you would want to know where that is is because there are several minute adjustments you can make in either direction that will provide varying degrees of accuracy and precision...or the lack thereof. There is no set rule on how far away to be from the lands. My rifle may have the best accuracy and precision with the bullet set 4 thou off the lands. While your rifle may achieve better accuracy and precision by being jammed into the lands 2 thou. Remember he said "Jump or Jam"? Proceed with caution and at your own risk.
this method does not work with either of my Remington 700's. I can get the bolt to drop freely w/out a case but as soon as I introduce a case to the chamber, there is resistance, regardless of seating depth. I seated a bullet extremely deep where I knew it was nowhere near the rifling and you still had an initial bit of pressure before the bolt fell.
My 700s are the same way best you can do just pay attention to how much pressure it takes to close you will feel the pressure difference when it's not pushing it in. You may not get within .001 but you will be close if a bullet doesn't shoot the same within .010 window it's not worth shooting in my opinion. Also look for land marks on bullet if it's not in the lands it won't leave a mark
Does anyone that reloads for 7MM Mag 168 gr bullet, IMR7828 powder have a precision load data?? What is the precise powder load for consistency as well as the upper pressure limit on the load? Thanks
This is the best video I've seen on finding seating depth. It doesn't require any tools and is repeatable.
best video seen so far on "finding out your bolt gun's COAL/COL without any extra tools!
Took my savage 10 and did this method. Worked PERFECTLY! I feel more confident in my seating depth than ever before.Thanks Tim for the info.
I've seen and read about several methods but I like this one best.
I'm a newbie reloader and didn't have a clue on how deep to seat the bullet. Thank you. Good vid!!
This is great. Really is, but you left out a couple of really good pieces of info. First, you need to remove the extractor push pin so it's not pushing on the rim of the cartridge. Second, you have to ensure that the shoulder and neck are not rubbing. So test to make sure nothing is touching when testing the case only. Third, you need to ensure the cartridge rim is clipped into the extractor clip before pushing the round into the chamber. The extractor clip could interfere if you don't. After reading some of the comments I think these things needed to be added.
Tcombest, I have been doing quite a bit of loading for semis, lately. I have an AR with a White Oak 18" barrel with a 1:7 twist. It normally doesn't shoot 55 grains all too well, but I was playing around with some 55 Hornady soft points that came with one of my presses years ago. The manual calls for a COL of 2.200. They actually grouped pretty decent. I took it out to 2.230 and it cut my groups in half. One of those things that you have to play around and see what works best. Great video!
Love the calibre and that bullet seating method. Nice video of a very nice setup.
That is a good and interesting technique that I have not seen before, but I am going to certainly try it. Good clear explanantion - thank you for sharing.
Saw this video years ago and it is still very relevant. One thing that you did not mention... but it looks like you have removed the ejector and its spring from the bolt face of the BAT action. This is also an important step in not placing any stress on the case/bullet assembly which enables you to feel the bullet engage the rifling. Nice job sir.
+gilream I have an M16 Extractor and I needed to remove mine.
I’ll be using this method, thank you Tim
Guys, make sure the bullet fits/sits inside the magazine before you reload other bullets.
Abdul Chachar I
Thank you for this. I have loaded for 35 years, but never saw a good explanation. Cheers and happy shooting
very nice, simple and common sense explanation of this concept. good luck with the new channel.
You can also use that method for knowing how much to bump your shoulder back.
this video reminds me of the most accurate rifle i ever shot. it was an old, old, old bolt action single shot .22 ranger chambered in 22Long but i used 22LR and the projectile would partially engage the rifling before firing and it would put every shot through the same hole at 50 yards with open sights and no scope. i heard years later that the shorter the distance the bullet travels before engaging the rifling was better most of the time for accuracy LOL i wish my brothers didn't screw me out of that rifle when my dad passed away. it was being stored at his farm and they claimed it was part of his estate and they took it for themselves. ;(
I learned something thank you.
Thank you Sir, straight to the point.
Some firing pins aren't so easy to remove. Could you used an unprimed case so pin falls into the primer pocket?
This method can get you within a couple thousandths. Problem is that his brass is slightly undersized, it has to be to get a bolt to drop without resistance in this test. A properly sized case in a chamber will cause a very light bit of resistence when you close a disassembled bolt. Of course this would cause the bullet seating depth test as he did it to be difficult as the whole method is based on the feel of the bolt drop.
Depending on how much he's bumping the shoulder on his brass will determine how accurate the final measurement is. Could be off by a few thousandths.
Very interesting/well done. Constructive comment: back the camera off so we can see your face during demo.
This is the best method not only for finding OAL but also adjusting sizing dies.
I really like this method. Brilliant. I will try this on my 700 tonight.
I also have a micrometer seating die. Once I set it up this way won't the die and chamber be matched as regards ogive so that other bullet types can be seated without adjustment?
I know I'll double check but was just wondering.
Thanks again for the video.
@tcombest Thanks for the quick reply! I'm using unfired brass but I'm pretty sure I need to bump the shoulder. I just ordered a Redding body die to do the bumping, so I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again.
Thank you that was excellent neighbor
before doing that, did you check the rifle case resistance?
Where did you get the firing pin removal tool
I'm trying this method with my firing pin removed and my bolt is loose like yours without a round in the chamber, but when I put a round in, it never gets loose. I even tried it with just the brass with no bullet in it and my bolt never free falls like yours does. Is it because I need to push the necks on my cases back or something? thanks.
Heh Tim, what is the best way to accomplish this task in a semi-auto gun like a SCAR 17? I realize the process is the same but the method must be entirely different due to the removable bolt (ie) your gun in the video.....Thanks
Have you tried the Hornady OAL gauge? Makes all of this very quick.
nice video lots of info there thank you!!!!
hey ,nice video!
can you tell me please how to extract the projectile from the brase?
thanks
What methods are there for leverguns?
I was advised to find the correct AOL for my rifle and being new to reloading just want to make decent shooting ammo . I'm not into high precision shots at 300 yards to 1000...
50 or 100 suits me fine using iron sights.
Thanks...
I have custom barrel that is a 1" dia My test round is 2.580 to the ogive and it seems to be hitting the lands. It seems to be touching and not freely closing. i took a measurement with a bullet seating tool, touching at the measurement of 2.531 ogive.My die and micrometer will only allow me to seat the bullet as far down as 2.545.That puts my bullet ogive very close to the case neck, will this be a problem? My cases are correct specs 2.490-2.50 what is your expertise on this subject?
Thanks that was a great tip.
Good question Moore could u do this without taking pin out if u leave primer out
The point of taking the pin out is not of safety (although that obviously applies) it's too have no resistance and he made it sound misleading because you don't have to have a firing pin removal tool to remove your firing pin. All rifles should have instructions on how to do it just get on the manufacturers website or look on RUclips for that matter.
I understand this process is for match grade ammo with precise headspace chambering. BUT,.... I have a 7.62N chambered bolt action rifle. If I load a .308WIN FMJ 145gr bullet. Will it fit? I dont want to discuss chamber pressures because I spoke about CUP vs PSI for hours, only to find the bullets are pretty much the same. I just want to know if .308headspace will fit in a 7.62n Bolt action rifle.I understand the opposite direction you get headspace issues. 7.62N rnd in a .308 rifle.
@tcombest Also using a comparator to measure shoulder length, my fired cases come out to 1.6240 and with my Die bottoming out on the shellholder with unfired brass the most I can bump it back is 1.6210. Am I supposed to FL resize before using the body die to bump the shoulder? thanks!
Love the video, thanks! I have a Savage 116, which has the ejector and extractor as part of the bolt head ass'y. I'm guessing that removing both would be a good thing, yes?
For load development, I'm not going to even try jamming. I'll make 6 ea. of bullets 1 thou off the lands, 2 thou, 3 thou, and 5 thou so I'll have enough to shoot two, 3-group shots of each of the 4 lengths. And go from there. Any advice?
Again, thank you and great video.
BTW, what do you think of the RCBS Precision Mic. tool?
freddiemercurious i have been trying this method and not getting accurate readings when trying to close the bolt. after reading your comment i realize it is because of the ejector pin in the bolt.... i THINK lol
Thanks for this Video...Flecktarn camo looks great...you should leave open the top button like a German soldier has to do. ;-) Greeting from Germany Markus
wiederladerTv cheers
Very good, thanks.
Great video!
Have you compared results with your method here with the results using the Hornady gauge using the same bullet? Just curious. By the way, great video. I really enjoyed watching it.
Flecktarn! You are my hero
Help, i am reloading Remington 7MM Mag using a 2 die competition set and i have done some measurements on where my bullet touches the lands and found that i am at 2.531" and a good factory round is 2.654" to the ogive. Thus saying i am not able to seat the bullet beyond 2.587" so that i can ladder test the bullet jump off the lands to find the best bullet seating depth for precise accuracy. This is far as my die with the micrometer will allow me (2.587")At this measurement i am really close.
Would leaving the primer out give the same result for those of us that do not have the tool to remove the firing pin?, also, I'm going thru the same scenario with my M1 Garand, how would I acheive this with this gun? Any info would help greatly, Charles
The point of taking the pin out is not of safety (although that obviously applies) it's too have no resistance and he made it sound misleading because you don't have to have a firing pin removal tool to remove your firing pin. All rifles should have instructions on how to do it just get on the manufacturers website or look on RUclips for that matter.
This is probably a dumb question but what is the reason for finding this
Hunter Sickinger It is not a dumb question. The reason is to find where the rifling (lands) is in a particular barrel in relation to the chamber. This only determines where the rifling is in the particular barrel you are performing this test on, obviously. The reason you would want to know where that is is because there are several minute adjustments you can make in either direction that will provide varying degrees of accuracy and precision...or the lack thereof. There is no set rule on how far away to be from the lands. My rifle may have the best accuracy and precision with the bullet set 4 thou off the lands. While your rifle may achieve better accuracy and precision by being jammed into the lands 2 thou. Remember he said "Jump or Jam"? Proceed with caution and at your own risk.
Thank you.
Thanks for this Video...
that was great! thanks so much!
very good video
Thanks good job!!
this method does not work with either of my Remington 700's. I can get the bolt to drop freely w/out a case but as soon as I introduce a case to the chamber, there is resistance, regardless of seating depth. I seated a bullet extremely deep where I knew it was nowhere near the rifling and you still had an initial bit of pressure before the bolt fell.
My 700s are the same way best you can do just pay attention to how much pressure it takes to close you will feel the pressure difference when it's not pushing it in. You may not get within .001 but you will be close if a bullet doesn't shoot the same within .010 window it's not worth shooting in my opinion. Also look for land marks on bullet if it's not in the lands it won't leave a mark
How do you check the length for semiautomatic rifles like ar15?
greetings from germany!
In AR guns, we're restricted to magazine length. If we get to long the gun won't function properly because it jams trying to come out of the mag.
excellent !!
Does anyone that reloads for 7MM Mag 168 gr bullet, IMR7828 powder have a precision load data?? What is the precise powder load for consistency as well as the upper pressure limit on the load? Thanks
why is this guy wearing a uniform from the German Army ?
Why the German uniform?
+Tcamp Why not?
zeissOholic Ha fair point.
thanks..
Cool
PS,....sweet rifle!
lol joe duke= bow duke