What is a ''restoration'' and why does your EPS board suck?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- In todays adventures, we discuss what defines a surfboard restoration vs repair and we look into the future of EPS and where it will lead surfboard manufacturing in the years to come. All this while ''restoring'' a 1965 LAND surfboard.
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I should state that there is always an exception to the rule and this video is not to say that there are not very well built, strong and well glassed boards using EPS foam. No offence is intended towards any shaper who chooses to work with EPS! These are my personal opinions only and there are many angles to the discussion to be considered. 🤙
The guys by my house said EPS is terrible for making big boards. I make Boogie Boards out of broken softops, most of them seem to be some type of EPS and sometimes it’s good 👍 sometimes not so much 😂
@@Chop757 boogie board are probably a better option for EPS because of their size. Less board, less area to fill with water and easier to drain. Not having feet stomping on them constantly probably less odds of a ding in the first place! Reusing old soft tops is a big win too. don't get me started on bloody soft tops, it'll be an hour long rant 😂
Yeah fair comment. There’s some good NZ shapers who work with both materials and are happy to give balanced advice. Sweet video.
I am in the camp that likes to see the scars and wear over the years, but protected in a watertight shell 👍 great video, interesting thoughts 😎
Ditto, there’s room for all styles but we all have our preferences! Appreciate it! 🤙
You'd love my Takayama Model T
A masterful and respectful resurrection of a beautiful vintage long board! I'm 80, and started surfing in Southern California in 1959, on a glassed balsa board on loan from a friend. My first new, custom ordered board was a 1963 Joe Quigg, 9'-2", single redwood stringer, reverse laminated fin. Followed by many others from various local shapers. Needless to say, I love long boards, and vintage long boards in particular. I'm fully in agreement with your approach! Aloha from O'ahu!!
Aloha and mahalo! Love hearing about those old boards, where they came from, who owned them and where they ended up. There’s some beauties over there on the islands!
I've got pretty much the same board as that here in the UK - same sort of age 1960's. 9'6" big and heavy known here as a Bilbo. In far better nick than this, but still could do with a bit of TLC. It's just sitting in the garage up on the rafters. Should sell it really.
Nice! I can recommend a Facebook page called “vintage surfboard collectors”. There is a wealth of knowledge on that page and they will definitely guide you in finding out its collectable value
So what you are saying is, I'm in for a world of hurt trying to fix a badly neglected and damaged EPS SUP I got given to me? 🤔
Haha, best of luck is all I can say! You’ll be right though!
@@smallkinedings Cheers! On subject though, one of the shapers I know said he didn't want to know about it when I went and got a bit of foam offcut from him. 😄
In 1975, I was 10 yrs old, my best friend and I, he's still one of my best friends and he still surfs almost everyday and lives two blocks from Manhattan Beach Pier in SoCal. He and I bought our first surfboard from a neighbor's garage sale,(they happened to be the owner of Dive n Surf or more well known as Body Glove.
We were 10 yrs old, I think it cost us $5.00 for a 1965 (ten yr old) 13 foot double stringer Donald Takeyama shaped surfboard. It took both of us to carry it. We got an old beavertail wetsuit jacket for another $5.00 we learned to surf on that board and it remained as the borrow board for the next 20 years sitting in the backyard of my friend's rented apartment where he lived 100 feet from the sand at a place called El Porto next to Manhattan Beach. That board stood the test of time and eventually got so dinged up and pressure dings and dark spots from water seapage that someone spray painted it silver and it was renamed the Silver Surfer. That board is still around in terrible shape. It is now 59 years old. I would love to strip off that silver paint and see if it could be restored. Hawaiian made. Classic iconic shaper from the 1960s shipped to the Mainland and ended up in the hands of the owners of Dive n Surf and sold ten years later to a couple of 10 yr old beach rats from Los Angeles and is still in the hands of the same kids who 49 years ago pooled together our lunch money to buy it and learn to surf on it. Many other people learned on it, surfed in drunken stuper on it, paddled it out with a group in memory of friends no longer with us, many many stories that board was part of.
It's items like that and the board in this video that need to be brought back to life. Even if it is just a conversation piece and just a piece of art, it should be kept alive.
Unreal story, thanks for sharing!
Your friend might have done it a favour by painting it. I've worked on quite a few boad's of similar age that were painted head to toe and the paint prevented a lot of yellowing and degrading of the foam and glass from UV!
Hope that board continues to live on for decades to come!
I completely agree with your sentiments about restoring old boards. You want to see the history that the board has been through, it is part of what makes it old and interesting.
I think so! 🤙
I moved to Hawaii 45 years ago and wanted to learn how to Surf ! So I bought a custom made Ben Aipa 8' x 22" nose rider . My oh my its one sweet and beautiful surf board . I moved back home to Chicago and I still have it proudly hanging on my bedroom wall ! Ben passed away and I just might load it up and fly it back to Waikiki and give it to his sons Duke and Akila
Unreal! I’ve had a chat to Akila recently on instagram about an old board of his dads I had in at the shop. He replied almost immediately and actually knew/remembered the original guy it was shaped for before my customer owned it.
Maybe send him some pics of it and the story, I’m sure he’d love to hear and see it!
Good job on the restoration but I'm sorry you put the whole through the fin for a surf leash. Those boards were meant to be ridden without a leash and if you fell off you swam to get your board. The swim is good for us and if there are no rocks on the beach learning to retrieve your board after falling is all a part of the surf experience. I started surfing in 1958 and still don't use a leash.
Hey hey! Yea, it was definitely a discussion to be had with the customers. They live in a reasonably rock place though and I'm sure their kids will be have a jam on this one too so the fin hole seemed like the only good option! Agreed though, if it were mine I would have left it leash free!
Just remember he replaced the original and subjectivity repairable hatchet fin with a new fin so no biggie putting holes in it
My son rang me a couple of years ago and asked me if he could drill a hole through the fin of an old Ron 9'2" I had found on a council cleanup and 'restored'. It had the original fin. I said "sure" after a bit of thought. I was happy to see him out riding the board and if putting a leash on it meant it got used, then 'go for it'. Because, it was heavy, and a dog to surf, so all power to him for having a go, though personally I preferred to get well away from the damn thing once I came off! 😂
@@donaldsinclair4386 agreed, if it means the boards surfing and being enjoyed then do eeet!
What is that black stuff and how does it taste?
What a great video!! I definitely agree with your opinion on EPS boards. In fact, I'm fully on the same page with all the points you make in the video.
I guess the marketing machine behind epoxy wave riding products is the real enemy.
Regards from KARMA SURFBOARDS & DING REPAIRS .CORNWALL UK. Chaa hoooo!!! 😊🤙
The black stuff is a powdered guide coat and it tastes like if you were to lick the silicone around the door jam of a cheap hotels shower!
Appreciate your comment, always great to add another board builder/repairer to the minds global map! It’s going to be an interesting future for surfboard construction, ding repairs are about to become far more specialised I think! Verdure surf IMO is giving us a glimpse of what boards will look like in the near future and what repairs will entail!
@@smallkinedings hahaha I wont be finding out for myself, although I have done the finger licking thing to smooth out my far from perfect silicone application and I was reminded of vinegar.
Have the best day!😊🤙
Didnt finish this video but on the off chance theres some surfboard competition i happen to have won, ill take an eps please, as long as its an eco board! Love that stuff! Gotta be one of my favourite materials
😂
😆 well played, I’ll let you know if any competition like that ever comes up!
Aha, you have hit the "The Ship of Theseus, also known as Theseus's Paradox" principle. Is an object ever the "same" after repairs.
Good true story.
6 years a go, the Queensland Government brought out a Tax on new boat builds. They made an exemption, for "Restorations"
Some smart Dude asked the Government Rep "If I use just one nail from the original boat, is it a Restoration ?"
The Government Rep said "Yes"
So, that solved the Tax problem for home builders.
O wow! That’s funny to hear!! I’ll look into that, seems a very difficult thing to define “restoration” as a law. Smart fulla!
I repair boats. Not boards bit sometimes people bring me boards because i do good work. I hate EPS epoxy repairs. Using epoxy sucks on everything. This guy wants to bring me his paddle board with 14 bubbles. Even though my opinion is, this board is finished for its life, he wants the repairs done anyway. Its too bad, as soon as he takes it out there will be another 14 bubbles and will not stop.
Even boats work best woth poly resin and fiberglass. People dont know that carbon fiber is rigid not strong. It breaks easy. Fiberglass is stronger but flexible. Carbon is good for car parts, models but not water toys
Preaching to the choir! I have a little short on how functional carbon fibre stringers are. Not to give away the ending but, I snap it with two fingers... 😂
"What is that black stuff you rubbed on the surfboard at the end of the video and how does it taste?" I agree with your opinion whole heartedly about surfboard restoration and probably restoration in general! Watching what you did with this old board was incredible and it seemed like when you were finished if that board was able to breath it took a first breath of fresh air after a long time and glistening in it's new found life it could stand as proud and maybe moreso than on the day it caught it's first wave!
I hope it lives a long happy life now and the owners get some enjoyment out of it! Sounds like their grand kids will learn to surf on it!
I have a video that answers those two questions. It's titled '' my subscribers as the strangest questions'' 😂
What is the black stuff?
Cheers mate, a South African who surfed J-Bay back in the days of Sean Thompson.
🤘👽🤘
Unreal! I dream of that right hander! I don't suppose you ever met a lady named Vanessa did you, she used to manage all the houses/accommodation in front of Jbay.
The black stuff is a powdered guide coat to show scratches that need be removed from my previous sanding before I move onto the next grit 🤙
I suppose that old school is gold school compared to most things, made with care by hands and to stand the test of time. Fibreglass boards surf with more feel, like the guy that made it.
Nothing quite like the imperfect perfection of hand crafted anything!
You know, there is this moment in digital content where one just gets oversaturated by the SAME information again and again. I thought I had reached saturation and had and idea what to do with my three vintage rescues. THEN I found your channel and happened on a few vids, then THIS beauty of a video. New info, a great outlook/philosophy, AND working on some really cool old boards. I am so LUCKY to have found it. Thank you tons.
I feel that! Definitely going to work my hardest not to fall into the trap of repeating content! Aside from a few early videos of questionable video and audio quality I want to re film or re edit, I'm trying to bring new facits and techniques to each one. I've got some other plans on how to mix it up content wise in the future too but they require some financial investment to kick start so gonna take a minute to get going but should help steer away from topics already overly covered by me and others!
Cheers for watching and thanks for the feedback! Any questions or help needed on the boards you are working on, reach out! 🤙
Great vid. Sustainability; I had an old Atlas Woods, that was stored in a pool shed. Small landslide destroyed the shed, and a concrete block retaining wall landed on it . Wrecked and squashed an adjacent lawnmower. After I dug it all out, the board had some deep scratches and chips from the blocks, but all only surface deep, hardly even penetrated the really thick glass and resin. Easily fixed, and as good as it ever was, but with a few more visible scars.
Unreal! These old boards are probably more akin to boat construction than modern day surfboard construction, bullet proof!
Very nice words
Cheers Luke! 🤙
That board looks great❤. It would be a fun one at SanO
While I was working on it I was thinking it would be a gem on a small Ala Moana or Waikiki day!
Totally AGREEEEE....👀Silmar Polyester Resin is 100% BEST!!!!!
Sensational content sir ! I have been making surfboards for 35 years . Worked in the industry shaping for most of that time . Ironically my first board was epoxy / styrofoam back in 1989 . We used R180 from Nuplex . Most of those boards we're "dead" within 18 months . PU will outlast any styrofoam blank - FACT . My blank supplier can supply me a "pink" grade PU blank , glass that in 4oz s-glass with quality lamination , follow that up with a warm gloss coat , sand that and there you have a HPSB weighing in at around 5.25 llb or 2400 gms . That board will outlast any epoxy/styrofoam board .
The problem with styrofoam is the 'open-cell' nature of the foam . If you have any opening in the glassjob , it soaks water up like a sponge .
Get a hairline crack around a finbox and the board sits in your room , then the car . The air within expands , then you plunge into the ocean which is probably 6+ degrees colder . The air inside your board is now contracting , sucking in seawater . Bingo , your board is slowly dying .
PU will only take in so much water because of the closed cell nature of its foam .
Sorry for the rant , but I had to communicate this . Stay away from styrofoam and epoxy dust .
Thank you , and again ....great work .
This is a great comment, mostly because it's in line with my thoughts and who doesn't LOVE themselves an echo chamber?!
What you've said about air expansion and contraction within EPS is bang on the money!
Thanks for this comment!
Great Video. One thing you failed to mention about EPS is over time the beads of of eps foam will gradually lose their tenuous bond with each other and devolve into a loose mush of foam balls not unlike a bean bag. This is as a result of flex and moisture and temperature changes over time. Also, so called Bio epoxy resin has only something like 0.3% bio content and that is only present in the resin part of the mix not in the hardener.
@@100percentsurf on the money in regards to both EPS and bio resin!
Man, I could bitch about this stuff all day, there's not a video long enough 😂
@@100percentsurf just had a browse through your channel. Immediately hit subscribe, will check some vids out this evening. I'm originally from kangaroo island so I get excited when I see the words "south australia"
great axe metaphor. the same could be said about the cells in our own bodies…
Love this video mate… incredible craftsmanship and funny… leg rope will pull your hip out of socket…lol
Appreciate it mate!
Fix the dings, tidy it up, make it watertight and take it out for a paddle.
That’s the ticket 🤙
@@smallkinedings I have a really old Longboard that I restored, I was told that it was one of the first foam and glass boards to come to Australia. When I was sanding it down I sanded off a bubble in the glass and it was the old hand drawn logo it was mostly destroyed as I didn't realise that's what it might have been. I haven't sent any photos or emails to an old bloke in Hawaii yet I was told to get in contact with Randy Rarrick as he would probably be the best person to ask about this board. It could be worth a very lot of money especially if it's from the shaper I think it is. 🤙
A lot of work on that one, Bro, but in the end, well worth it.
Was a long journey this one! Always worth it in the end though!
You’re a craftsman and I would consider this a top tier restoration. I agree about EPS epoxy and got off the bandwagon a couple of years ago. “What is that black stuff you rubbed on the surfboard and how does it taste?”
Appreciate it! Always a little frustrating to be held to a budget on boards like this one, theres a couple more stages I would of liked to do around the fin area but I get it, and the customers seemed more than happy with the result which is the main thing!
What do I say, but bloody awesome! Another piece of nz surf history save. I can't agree with you on them surfing like shit, I surf my land, Dunlop, atlas's all the time it's just a different style, but each to there own. Awesome vid once again. Yeeewww
100% get you, just because they “surf like shit” sure as hell doesn’t mean that they aren’t still super fun to ride! Everything’s comparative and I do know a couple of guys with more kilos on them than me that love riding them so that might be a factor of my experience too!
@@smallkinedings the thing I notice is after paddling around a old log for awhile, then jump on your modern longboard, your paddle game is on point 😂😂
@@chrism4334 haha, guaranteed!
Eps foam is far better than normao foam. I have 3 eps boards and theyre all really good. So bs who are you anyway? Youre not a shaper or anything 😂😂😂😂
Your EPS foam is likely 16kg to 28kg/m3. “Normao” foam as you call it (PU) is likely 36kg to 64kg/m3. So, PU (normao foam) is far denser and stronger.
Your EPS foam, drinks water like a kitchen sponge. Once it’s in there, it is HIGHLY unlikely that you will ever get it out and it will drain from nose to tail VERY quickly. It will steam, mould, and rot your foam to nothing eventually. PU foam won’t do this.
Do you find it interesting that the same foam in your surfboard makes disposable beer coolers, or, ever buy a new computer or TV? The same foam is used as the disposable packing that you throw away once you’ve opened the box. Why? Because it’s SOFT and CHEAP. You like your surfboards soft and cheap?
I’m the guy that works on surfboards and surfcraft (surfboards, sups, kayaks, clubby boards, surf skis, goat boats, wind surfers and wake boards) every single day. Thousands upon thousands of them. The shaping bay in the thumbnail photo (or end of the video) might also help you out with your query.
Thanks for playing and thanks for watching! 🤙
And fin boxes! I do repairs for some local kids, and the no of broken, squashed into the board fin boxes!! Easier to replace a broken off , glassed on fin. And yes, I hate it when they are EPS epoxies
Practicality vs longevity is a tough one! Hard to beat a a glass on fin though!
lol it looks like some sort of tar or similar that they use, for example, to artificially age guitars and furniture, and I bet it tastes... tar-y. very interesting points about EPS, I like EPS/epoxy builds because they (1) let me ride a slightly smaller board and still have good float, and (2) they are harder to ding in the first place than PU. but, in terms of the actual sustainability of EPS foam, yeah, very interesting points.
Haha, like a stain kind of. Interesting thoughts on potential use for products like that come to mind! It’s a powdered guide coat to show me any scratches left behind by my previous sanding grit.
Seems lots of folks prefer the feel of EPS/epoxy which is fair enough. As for being harder to ding, that fully depends on the glassed and glassing schedule of the board. I get plenty off the rack epoxy board that will ding if you look at them the wrong way! Not to say all of them, but study that glassing!
@@smallkinedings just watched this vid a second time cos it's that interesting! thanks for the info about the stain, really cool. I started building boards for myself early this year, with eps/epoxy... did a couple that way and came to the conclusion on my own that eps is a horrible horrible material for shaping for all kinds of reasons, mainly workability and as you and Pyzel say, the complete lack of actual sustainability. but I will say, I've a small quiver of firewires and hand-build eps/epoxy and I'm sure I've just been fortunate but none of them have gotten irreparably waterlogged from small dings. but yeah I get it now... my latest project is in PU with epoxy resin :-)
Great vid.
Brilliant break down and explanation of technique and method.
Very much enjoyed your perspective.....🤙🏼🇦🇺🍻
Cheers man, appreciate the feedback!!
What a wonderful thought provoking philosophical video. I found the craftmanship on display, combined with the timbre and meter of your voice almost hypnotic.
Glad you enjoyed! Appreciate the feedback very much!
Fantastic! Was enjoying watching this but the icing on the cake was that I have a 1964 Roger Land that was restored by a friend of mine 7 years ago. You can still see all of the ‘left outside in the weather’ damage, but it is at least safe, dry and watertight. I had bought it from the original owner in the late ‘70s. In NZ btw.
Hey hey! Unreal! Very difficult to find information on Roger I found. I do know that Raglan museum has a few on display. I feel like someone more knowledgeable than myself needs to put some history on him up there before it's lost forever!
Beautiful work, and narration. Thank you for sharing.
Thank YOU for watching!
Look up "the ship of theseus", a debate as old as time
Someone else mentioned that in the comments below! Definitely looking into it, very interesting and applicable!
Account for the usable lifespan of a board when calculating its sustainability! That's a revelation. Thanks for saying it. Many of us think that way with shoes, tools, camping gear... but somehow not surfboards. I did not, until now. Cheers.
It’s a funny one to think about, considering what surfboards are for it’s surprising how fragile they really are. Easily overlooked on sporting equipment I reckon, we all just assume that for the price and what it’s used for, it should be as strong as a skateboard or a baseball bat!
How did you know the question about the black staff was going to be my question haha?
Love the video and loving your content cheers mate, big inspiration!
Appreciate it! I have a full video on the black stuff now. It's called ''my subscribers ask the strangest questions''
what is the black stuff you put in the surfboard and how does it taste? From Texas USA👍🏻👍🏻🤠🇺🇸 ps; i have a 60s board hanging up in my pool area.( im 4 hrs from Skatter pool🤬)
@@russell_vayo Hola Texas!!
I have a video on my channel called "my subscribers ask the strangest questions", it will answer your very odd question 😂
O nice, what kind of board is it do you know?
Got a Land in my shed very similar. Webber fin. Slightly worse. Had it since first owner gave it in 1980. Rode it regular until about 2004. my kids rode with me on it as wee kids, my Jack Russell enjoyed it too, mainly at The Pipe. Surfed Red Bus and the Point on it a lot, up to 6 foot. You have to ride those logs carefully, in a certain way, great knee paddlers, cruel when they clout you. Thanks for the date - i alwsys thought 67 but yeah 66. Will be passing it down.
Unreal, seems like there’s still a few around the place! I found it really hard to find any decent, in depth information or Roger Land or Land. The Raglan museum has a a few on display apparently so I’ve gotta go check that out one day.
I’ve made a few wooden picture frames and used dark “antiquing” wax (instead of clear wax) on black walnut. Was it something like that?
I have a video covering the question around this stuff. It's called ''my subscribers ask the strangest questions''...
This particular product though is known as ''guide coat'', it helps me see areas still filled with scratches that need removing before moving onto the next grit 🤙
Plutarch asked the same question 2000 years ago. In its original formulation, the "Ship of Theseus" paradox concerns a debate over whether or not a ship that had all of its components replaced one by one would remain the same ship.
Learnt about the ship of theseus after making this video! God dam ancients stealing my ideas!!
Just another take on EPOXY resin . A skin specialist here in Sydney Aus was telling me he has multiple workers compensation cases going due to workers from building industry (marble/granite benchtops ) silicosis disease due to epoxy dust . Epoxy resin is most dangerous to human health in its DUST form .
I also know a few boatbuilders who cannot work near Epoxy dust at all due to skin irritation (blisters the size of your hand ) .
Yeah , there is really only one material that is truly enviromentally friendly to make a surfboard out of . A naturally fallen tree .
Love your craftsmanship .
I know a handful of people who have developed allergies to epoxy over the years. A couple of them had worked with the stuff for years before the allergy showed it's face. Some of their re actions are so bad that they wouldn't even be able to set foot in a place like my workshop because theres enough particles in the air to trigger their reactions.
Great video.
But epoxy boards are proven to be stronger, lighter and last longer.
So like poly replaced wodden boards, epoxy replaces polyester boards.
Re tooling and re learning board building methods is a friction point for the boomer gen. 😅
@@REDboardriders proven by who though I wonder? People who sell epoxy boards? No ding repairer I've ever spoken to would agree, outside of moulded technologies perhaps but even the big boys like Global Surf Industries are transitioning back over to traditional PU and poly. Unarguably weaker foam, no wooden stringers, same glass schedules as traditional PU and epoxy isn't that notabley stronger than poly in such light lay ups, not enough to make up for the EPS core. I'd be suspicious of such proof I think, like many things in the surfboard world, like BIO resins, not all is what it's sold to us as
As a big fan of epoxy boards which I’ve owned from the inception of “Tuflite” & Surftech, I can say the original ones still hold up very well to this day. But I don’t leave my boards in direct sunlight & I’m not out there every day either. I’ve always wondered why the combination of PU foam & epoxy resin has never really caught on, considering the obvious strength advantage epoxy has compared to polyester resin. In fact I’m surprised that they haven’t developed even lighter & stronger boards out of carbon fibre when the process has been going on now for decades successfully creating lightweight parts for the automotive & aeronautical industries. Surfers and shapers definitely love to stick to traditional methods.
I agree 100%. I think those tuflites and surftecs will outlast the vast majority of other EPS builds. They've tackled the problem in the right way I think with the angle of ''how do we make sure our foam core NEVER gets wet?''.
I think at this rate, PU/Epoxy (PE) is the future unless we see a new and better material than both EPS and PU which is quite possible. It will be interesting to see what comes next!
I read a comment on a shaping/glassing video a few years ago. It was from an engineer who made composite aeroplane parts. He was blown away with the outdated methods used in the surfing world. I wish I'd screen captured it as it made me giggle but also was very interesting. He was genuinely bewildered as a non surfing expert in composite materials.
I just found your channel and watched a load of them videos. I am finding them super helpful and full of info. Thank you very much.
Welcome and so glad to hear! Appreciate the feedback!
So my question is about ordering a board that will last.. last year ordered a new mid from a fairly well known mostly custom work shaper, who I’d wanted a board from for a few years. Requested glassing be bullet proof(I’m a big dude) board arrived from interstate and as soon as I held in my hands I was suss on it. Now since the first surf I’ve grown to live this board and is my “go to”. But the board more than any board I’ve had in the last 10 years looks like it’s part of a hail sale at a car yard! Let’s say they did glass in 6x4 on top at least.. could this be just a case of foam density/light weight blank? I’ve got another mid from a certain very famous twin fin world champ(yeah that guy) and the board from him has to be one of the best built boards I’ve seen. Has very few compressions in deck which he puts down to the fact that he didn’t take a lot of foam out of the deck. I feel if u order a shortboard u know it has a shelf life, but when ordering say a mid is it not enough to just order heavier glass or do we need to order a blank with more density? Long question but your vid got me thinking about the shelf life of my boards.
Good question and the fact is that really, it's a gamble no matter who makes your board. Mass produced vs hand shaped or small kine local factory, I've seen problems with them all. No matter if the blank has been carved out with a planer or a CNC, it is always possible for the shaper or machine to remove too much foam from the deck while chasing their required dimensions and this will leave you with a soft core within your glass. Good blank selection for the desired outcome is a big part of this generally. I would always recommend going with the ''heavy glassing'' option if there is one as in the big picture, even the heaviest glassing schedules are very light for what surfboards are designed for. Depending on your shapers blank supplier there is also quite often different option for blank density (my supplier does super soft, medium and hard). In theory the softer the blank, the heavier the glassing schedule required but personally for my boards, I'll go with the hardest foam I can and the same glassing schedule I do for 99% of my boards... 6oz bottom, 6oz deck patch and 4oz top layer.
When it comes to density of foams though, a ''high density'' EPS is around 28kg/sq meter where as an average, run of the mill poly blank will be around 36KG/sq meter. Once you cut into these two foams your blanks only getting softer so final density of each is likely going to be quite a bit softer than what your shaper started with 🤙
Polyester resin goes for 6 EUROS PER liter Epoxy 40……. I charge at least Double for Epoxy Repairs
It certainly isn't getting any cheaper either!!
Great video! Love the restoration. Also I agree with your thoughts on EPS. I’ve had 3 hand shaped EPS boards and each one lasted a year. I’m done. I chose eps because of the lightness and pop, but I’m done buying a new board every year.
Frustrating to get hooked on the feel of EPS and how it rides only to realise the impacts on your wallet when replacing them so often! Hopefully we see some some cool new core materials coming out soon!
What are your thoughts about XPS foam? closed cell, but I think only available in 2 inch thickness. As a DIY builder, it is the most easily accessible foam out there.
I don't have much experience with the stuff to be honest. I've had some boards come through made of the stuff but from a ding repair perspective they just turned into your average Epoxy repair. The lack of thickness in the sheets is certainly an annoying factor though.
I've made some boards out of Polyiso Insulation Board that roofers typically use. The stuff comes in pretty thick sheets and is both poly and epoxy friendly. It has an annoying silver film on it that you need to plane off but it's a fairly similar density to EPS keeping it light weight. I have noticed it does ''crumble'' after a while which can lead to delams but I'm still riding a fish 5ish years later that I built from the stuff and it's probably my most surfed board.
It's all about experimenting with what you can get your hands on and for the prices of some of these cheap materials, it can be well worth sampling different foams and taking note on how they perform and last.
Ive ridden epoxy/EPS for years now and had no issues with sucking water, its just so rare to get open dings,
EPS real benefits is its has very good memory so bounces back to shape and doesan break down over time so boards tend to stay lively...
Meanwhile poly blanks cells deteriorate and crush with every flex, the extreme example is that green poly foam used for flower decoration, crush it and it stays crushed..
Haha, it's always funny to me when people say ''it's rare to get open dings'' in relation to epoxy. You're certainly not the first to say that and you wont be the last! Only because I see them every day of the year.
The primary focus with Epoxy/EPS should be glassing it in such a manner that what you say is the absolute priority of the glassing schedule. Something like (and it pains me to say) surftec makes sense because they have built such a bullet proof skin that water getting to the foam really is very rare.
The vast majority of EPS/Epoxy boards I see though are built with nothing but lightness and flex in mind. Fire wire, Haydens, JS, all the big fullas, are certainly guilty of under glassing many/majority of their EPS boards, so much so that sanding for repairs is often an issue because they are so easy to sand through to foam next to the repair area. Whatever boards you're riding, stick with them because theres more crap than good out there on the market but, certainly some good to be found!
Yes. A restoration, by definition, should bring it back to its original condition. Thickness of glass, shape and resulting weight and performance. Otherwise, the term means nothing and you’re riding something else.
Simply put 🤙
What’s that black stuff you put on that surfboard and how does it taste (fellow ding repairer and surfboard shaper from New Jersey I can’t say I’ve disagreed with anything you said epoxy and eps is a nightmare)
Guide coat, rarely used but when you want it, it's so good to have it on hand! I've got a buddy here in town from New Jersey, he makes chambered, hardwood boards (Lemuria surfboards). Jersey shore made me want to bomb that part of the world but, he turned me around and made me want to visit!
Great information to be sure, but I really just got into witnessing the transformation and the precise surgical and delicate caressing and shaping and glazing and polishing that you were doing. A meditation. If there is such a thing as intention/prayer/reverence for the art of creation and expression and that this was somehow physical - like a substance - a fine mist of prayerful mindful intention particles, then I believe that with every pass of a brush, a sanding block, a feeling hand, sensing for rough spots or high points - that some of those prayerful particles get caught up in the layers of resin in a board like the one you repaired in this video. I can almost see the micro particles of stoke that you laid into that board. A true pleasure to witness. Thanks for your work and the time you have spent perfecting your craft and sharing it here. Strong work.
Appreciate your comment! So hard to put all that into a video, need more slow mo 😆
Totally enjoyed
Stoked to hear it! 🤙
Great vid, I have just adopted an old 8ft PU board that will need alot of love to get her back to health again. It has a large area where it has delaminated on the deck, so I wanted to know what you used to fill that void before re positioning the old glass? it looked different to microbaloon filler.
G'day Toni! I used an exanding PU foam at a 56kg density. The microballoon filler that I used afterwards was just to fill the pin holes in that foam. I do have a video on the foam on my channel 🤙
Epoxy is stronger than polyester and lighter, polyester tends to degrade faster than epoxy, add to this EPS is closed cell which means if you get a crack in your fibreglass the leak won't destroy the entire board, I get what you are saying and im not trying to create an online fight because that's not my jam but Im in the EPS epoxy camp after 40yrs with polyester
I agree on some but also disagree on a couple of points. Epoxy being lighter is a slight misnomer. A litre of poly weighs the same as a litre of epoxy. What is true though is that epoxy is stronger meaning you can use lighter schedules and materials which will result in a lighter end product but, when it comes to epoxy surfboards the factor that generally makes them lightweight is the EPS foam.
The weight difference between EPS and PU is significant. The weight difference between epoxy and poly is negligent. This is easily seen in PU vs PE (epoxy over PU foam). The weight difference is minor but, the strength is superior with epoxy (as long as it’s not deliberately underglassed which sadly, many epoxy boards are).
As far as EPS vs water. Although each foam bead is closed cell, the gaps between each individual foam bead is enormous and easily channels water from one end of a board to the other. This trapped water will either mould and rot the foam or, it will steam when the board is sealed again and cause major delamination. I’ve lost count on how many EPS boards I’ve seen damaged beyond repair by water. I’m yet to see a PU board significantly damaged by water (at least not beyond a very localised area). PU just doesn’t allow water to easily travel meaning any damage is contained to a single area, not throughout the entire board. I’ve never once had a moisture issue with a PU board of any era. It’s often a weekly but most certainly a monthly occurrence with EPS in my line of work.
Appreciate you and your comment 🤙
What was that black stuff you rubbed on the surfboard at the end and how does it taste?
Seriously i was curious what that was, i was thinking a stain. Love your work and enjoy your videos..
Stay safe😎
Richard
Gday Richard!
It’s a powdered guide coat that sits in the scratches from my sanding. It allows me to see which scratches from the previous grit I’ve missed before moving onto the next one 🤙
Very informative, well whatever the black stuff is I'm sure it's very tasty, I'm almost certain you consume it daily 😋
Tastes like the burnt cheese drippings at the bottom of your oven after making nachos!
That fin was something else
I bought a EPS once and after 4 surfs where my front foot lands it had sunk nearly an inch.
Never again .
Great vid much appreciated
Where are you based? I have an old single fon id love to get restored so I can surf it
Cheers
The issue with a soft inner core. Really gotta make sure you make up for it withbthe glassing!
I'm in Mangawhai, NZ
Still have my 1975 Bing Bonzer in almost perfect condition
Unreal! Protect that thing with your life!
In the early 20th century nostalgia was considered by psychology to be a mental illness. History should be something used to improve the future not be a destination.
Haha, that made me chuckle! Luckily for us, much of what people thought or considered true in the early 20th century is no longer. I can’t imagine how those folks remembered loved ones or had fond memories without nostalgia?
the Fantastic Plastic Machine seems forever ago. Theres nothing cool about it. Cant recycle. But we love what it allows us to do. I dont want to hear the truth about surfboards. go way
😆 😆 😆
Hey man what kind of soft backing pad are you using here for the MIrka? I've been looking for one
They can be tricky to find! They’re called “interface pads” and they come in either 5mm or 10mm
Sorry I have no idea what is the best way to restore an old board but I just love to see a true craftsman at work, thanks for another great video.
Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed it!
Got an old Greg Knoll stemwinder one time from a guy who found it under a trailer it had hatchet marks in it and broken off Arrows in it and it was fully delaminated and soaking wet. I peeled it, stashed it up in the top of my garage outback in four pieces and the stringer totally separated. I glued it all back together re-laminated it brought it back to life surfed it for a while, painted it turn into a psychedelic cow kinda like a Holstein with mad cow disease
Fixed all the dings on it recently painted it like a dream sickle pop and stenciled on a blueberry Holstein cow kind of tasty I like it
Sounds like the epic project and a good save!
Is there anyone in Victoria that could restore an old Terry Fitzgerald gun I have , want minimal work done to change it as such just fix afew home done repairs and holes in board and such cheers
I'd get in touch with surfboard studio in Melbourne. They could probably help or point you in a good direction 🤙
What actually is that black stuff? Some kinda sealant or color corrector? Or cleaner? (Asking for a friend, lol)
Haha, let your buddy know that it’s a powdered guide coat.
It allows you so see any scratches from your previous grit that need to be sanded out with your current grit before moving onto the next one 🤙
Your work is spectacular and your patience and attention to detail is the finest. It was a pleasure to watch and I learned a lot. I see that you have a vac attached to your sander but you should still wear a mask. You're a young guy and all that micro dust that didn't go in the vac will catch up with you eventually. Best to be safe. Keep the videos coming.
Appreciate it very much and stoked that you enjoyed!
It's a fine line with the sanding. 99% of my job involves sanding and I'm working 6 to 10 hours a day. Wearing a respirator for that amount of time every day comes with it's own risks as well. Skin issues, cracked lips, infections, ingrown hards, management of facial hair (which I suck at 😂). I haven't found the perfect balance yet!
Thanks for all the thought's and letting us into ya mind space. Just one question. Do you ever work, or do you just love what ya do? Ta Stay salty
😎✌️.
Like anything, it has its good days and it's bad days but comparatively, the bad days are pretty good! Definitely love my job and my little business!
As far as EPS i ridden them for the past 20 years and rarely anything else. The lighter weight and pop i get you just cant get with PU. As far as water intrusion there are better blanks that are pressure molded that do not take in water at 2.0pcf weights.
Performance wise, EPS certainly provides something different and folks obviously love that feeling! Especially the real performance surfers who spend more time in the air than on the wave 😆
EPS is getting better than it was. There’s a mob called “Verdure” who are working on their own EPS foam which they hope will be compostable and with the technology they are putting into their skins, water penetration will be a non issue as dings rarely if ever reach the foam. I think they are well worth keeping eyes on!
It depends where you surfing too. Here, it’s rare we get glassy smooth conditions and because of that I very rarely ride EPS as the extra weight behind PU helps break through any bumps and chop in the waves where as maybe if I was surfing the glassy perfection of the Maldives, EPS would be a better choice.
“Horses for courses” my old fire chief used to say!
i charge more for eps/epoxy, you have to really, considering not doing the libtech bords as they are even harder to work on ..... and check out polyola blanks if you have them in your area a step in the right direction for sure
Yea, I'm about to take a closer look at my Epoxy jobs and adjust the pricing. I've defiantly been under charging on them for a long time now. As inflations grown, I've failed to re adjust.
I have been watching Polyola, very cool company and I'm excited to see what they can do with their poly resin too!
Labor of love, building and fixing boards. Lot of people will not understand this.
Amen, it sure as hell isn't for the "large" profit margins 😂
I get what your saying about the word "restoration" but using your strict definition there is nothing in this world that can truly restored. you can't ever remake the identical piece. The word becomes an impossible idea that can never be achieved in anything.
Thanks to a couple of the comments here I’m reading about “the ship of thesues” which poses that very question.
Years ago I helped my old boss restore an old Barracuda (American muscle car, I know nothing of cars btw). He spent tens of thousands of dollars and many years restoring that car will all original parts, from dash boards to steering columns. By the time it was done, it was all original parts and that’s probably the closest thing I can think of to a “true” restoration. Everything from shape, panels, colours and decals were the same and because it was a competition car, everything was to the mm.
I remember when the decals were added and the absolute precision to the mm they needed to be installed at, even so far as to how many mm’s they ran into the door jams.
What is the black stuff you rubbed on the board and seemingly polished off?
That's a powdered guide coat. It shows up the scratches from my previous sanding that need to be removed before I move onto the next grit for sanding. For things like panel beating and automotive painting it's good for showing highs and lows too when block sanding
My best glassed boards were shaped by Chris mc cutchison beach beat surfboards they had the best glassser sticky fingers I just can’t remember his name
Sticky fingers is a great name for a Glasser! 😂
Very interesting video and take on the whole industry. I do have a question, as a non-surfer, what was the knotted line added for on the fin?
Cheers for watching Richard! The string is for the boards leash, that attaches to your leg!
I don't have the knowledge to comment about the materials, but I'd like to mention the job you did on the video is super duper beautiful!
@@mikkovulli Moikka Mikko, miita mene?! Tervetuloa ja Iso kiitos!
New sub here. Liked the vid. Enjoy your craft..
Very much appreciated, welcome!
Hey man so what was that black stuff you rubbed all over the board and what does it taste like 😅 Nice video mate!
You legend! I have since made a video on this black stuff and what it tastes like, go check um out! 🤙
Great work and tutorial. Looks like coffee grounds you were using.
Appreciated! Any coffee grinds here get put in my belly real fast!
The black stuff is a powdered guide coat that shows up scratches made from my previous sanding that need to be removed before moving onto the next grit!
This is a beauty. Where can I get the black stuff, I heard it's delicious. Is glassing fin rope into an eyelet on the tail of the deck for the leg rope not period correct?
Any automotive repair store or candy shop will sell it to you! The customer and I did discuss the option of a roving leash loop but it's not necessarily ''period correct'' and with the weight of the board, we decided the hole in the fin would likely outlast a leash loop.
Some of the best things in life are transient.
You can't get ever them back, and it's a fools game to try.
Often setting yourself up for disappointment with the expectations
What was that black stuff that you rubbed on the board near the end of the video? What does it taste like?
I have a video that answers both of those questions. It's called "my subscribers ask the strangest questions", case and point 😂 🤙
What is that black stuff and how does it taste? I thought my old board was too far gone to bring back to life but this video has me taking another look at it.
It's pretty rare they're too far gone, I've only ever had 2 come in that were beyond it and that really only came down to if it was worth it financially, they still would of been fixable if the boards were of any kind of sentimental value for the owner.
My newest video delves into the black stuff and how it tastes!
Axe ... in UK Triggers' broom (only fools and horses)
Haha, bang on! "17 new heads and 14 new handles!"
So how did that black stuff taste? Asking for a friend.
I have a video covering that question, it came after this one and it’s called “my subscribers ask the strangest questions”. Case and point 😆
Not to be a snide prick, but most of us understand the ship of Theseus arguement, we dont need a nonsense story rehashing such an old idea
For someone trying not to be a snide prick, you sure come across as a snide prick...
I for one had never heard of the Theseus paradox before I made this video and somebody in the comments mentioned it (without sounding like a snide prick mind you). I'm sure there's plenty of others in these hundreds of comments who had also never heard of it, judging by the feedback I would dare say the vast majority have never heard of Theseus.
Do better man, your horse is so high I'm tempted to mail you some Narkan to help it out. You disappoint me.
nine job watched whole video don't care about black stuff
Haha, fair enough! Appreciate it 🤙
He he algo question here, what is that black stuff and did it taste kinda interesting? please do a short on it if you get a mo!
Will definitely do a video on it soon! It’s a powdered guide coat and it tastes like bbq charcoal!
Well I stopped the video before it reached the end. When will I get my new board?
Ahhh, good try!! I wanted to put a laughing emoji but my keyboard is playing up!
as someone who shapes and does ding repairs on all surf craft including clubbie boards customers dont understand the time it takes to repair a epoxy board. I stress that have to let it dry out for a week minimum or longer. I now dont like epoxy
Its worse than that. Many Epoxies don't reach full strength unless you "cure" it at specified temperatures for a specific time.
But then, the other option, Polyester Resin, isn't waterproof.
It’s a shame because I think Epoxy is a great material as I said in the video but it’s so hard now not to lump EPS and epoxy into the same basket!
Water permeable
I might try vinyl ester good enough for boat building
@@neilguy1222 I tried VE. It stank like burning plastic chairs. I nearly gagged for a week in the shed.
A quality Polyester is good enough for low immersion time surfboards, mostly.
what was that black stuff you applied to the back of the board and what does it taste like?
The black stuff is a powdered guide coat, it shows up any scratches that need to be removed before moving onto the next sanding grit.
It tastes like that month old piece of burnt pepperoni you find in the bottom of your oven!
Personal opinion here, but I think that with a historic board like this, a sympathetic restoration like what you’ve done is beautiful because it honors the history the board had seen. I think in cases where the board is a mass produced board likes my twenty year old BIC 7’8” or a newer damaged board, a full restoration is a choice that makes complete sense.
I’m watching your videos and trying to learn how to restore my own epoxy board. I never surfed long enough to own more than one, so she’s my baby and I want to teach my grandchildren to ride her soon. :)
They are all worth saving in their own way! Good luck with your resto, let me know if you have any troubles!
@@smallkinedings Hey there! So, it’s been an adventure in learning for sure. I happened upon a happy accident along the way;
I was putting epoxy on and evidently I had not mixed it well because when I was squeegeeing it on it started to make this wood grain gathering up action. I freaked out, tried to smooth it, got it flat, stepped back and it just sucked back into wood grain looking lines. Ugh! After a bit of emotional wrestling I decided to heck with it, I’m gonna work with it as-is, so I brushed it lengthwise to look like planks. It looked good, kinda like a beautiful old wood grain. And then, it wouldn’t set!
Crushing! So, I scrapped it all off the next morning, mixed less epoxy, poured and spread that and brushed it with a chip brush so that it had a lighter wood grain look. This time it set and it looks awesome.
I like the texture because when the board was from the factory, it had a texture, it wasn’t glassy smooth like traditional surfboards. I feel like the texture is a nod to wood boards and this boards’ original texture.
Along the way, one of my husbands’ friends gave us a short board that belonged to his son. It had a terrible repair the tail and nose so I pulled those off and fixed those along with and a few spots on the deck and below that were missed. I’m making those repairs following your videos. I’ll do my best to restore this board with its scars.
Only a single layer on the fin fillet? Process not fully videoed? Standard since I worked for G&S in the 60's was at least two layers, and once in Hawaii working on mostly Brewers and Hawks, three staged smaller layers, none sanded through. Also, the unidirectional got cut front and rear, and the ends of the fins knifed, so no air or resin bubbles when the fin layup went well. As boards got smaller, 4 ounce replaced the 6oz. for glassed on fins, which extended well into 3/4 fins. Single layups on glass fins just never lasted either at mainland shore breaks like Wind-n-Sea, or the more destructive shorelines common to Oahu. This board is only intended for mild slope beach breaks?
EPS lasts far longer if the surface is scored for a vertical resin structure under the glass, supporting the foam skin. My 6' 6" is at least 10 years old, and mildly heavier from ingress of water. All my EPS boards start with 1lb/cu. ft. foam blocks from the foam company in the Campbell industrial park, nowhere near as strong as current US Surfboards EPS blanks, but lighter. Properly built EPS really should have Dyvinicell? sandwich skin vacuumed on, now done only on custom race windsurfers, to my knowledge. The system is like SurfTechs that are built from the skin in, inside molds, but done from foam out.
2 patches of 6oz either side for this fin, just edited in the interest of time because my videos are loooooooong! 😂
It pains me to say but I think Surftechs goal of ''glass it so water will NEVER reach the EPS core'' is the right ethos. Weather or not they are doing it the ''right way'' is up to debate but those boards will certainly outlast 97.45% of EPS boards by focusing on keeping that foam dry!
@@smallkinedings I pretty much agree, but SurfTechs and sandwich Divinycel sandwich covered shapes, are Dangerously hard. Same as some carbon/epoxy boards. You really notice the difference when hit by your own board. For really functional repairs on boards that will be ridden in good waves, with performance intent, I sand and otherwise shape in a shaping room, where the lights are very superior showing the shapes produced. When we glossed everything, including repairs, this quickly became preferred as the sanding work under overhead (glassing room) lights was never Flat. Using big Hard backing blocks for the rough sandpaper helps, as the dust traces showed high and low spots. Something else I learned working with Jack Reeves for decades.
What is happening with current small performance boards is, the top surfers prefer a few ounces, or pounds, lighter, for quicker maneuvers. Ambitious amateurs copy. When losing costs money and maybe your career, a quicker board that lasts only a few heats is totally acceptable. A friend scrubs some of the computer boards DHD has done in Hawaii, as shipping costs here for boards built in Oz are ridiculous. Supposedly Mick Fanning has had all his boards glassed by the same guy for years. No laps at each end, zipped at the rail! He has adjusted to the flexibility where and how much he likes. At that level, sponsors eat the cost, and enjoy the rider's success.
sander should be wearing a resperator do it know before you start getting nose bleeds
On average each day I work 6 to 8 hours and a good 5 hours of that is sanding. I have a very good vacuum set up as wearing a respirator 5 hours a day, 7 days a week causes other issues that I'm not interested in dealing with. Any tool that doesn't connect to my vacuum (router, dremmel, laminate trimmer etc.) then the respirator comes out for sure.
great video.. whats the black stuff?
Many thanks! I have a video dedicated to that very question now. It’s called “my subscribers ask the strangest questions”.
I can tell you it tastes like licking the grease trap on a bbq though!
Haha I was wondering about the black stuff
Everyone keeps asking about it, can't work out why?!
It's a powdered guide coat that show me scratches that need to be removed, from my previous sanding, before going onto my next grit of sandpaper.